Baja Broncos with Todd Zuercher and Andrew Norton
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Company
Bring a Trailer
Bring a Trailer is a website where people can buy and sell classic cars through online auctions. It's popular among car enthusiasts.
Car
Ford Bronco
The Ford Bronco is a type of SUV that is great for off-roading and outdoor adventures. It has a loyal fan base and is considered a classic vehicle.
Concept
Baja Broncos
Baja Broncos are special versions of Ford Broncos made for racing in rough areas. They have upgrades to help them drive better on bumpy roads and in the dirt.
Car
Bronco U13/U14/U15 1966-1977
Featured on Bring a Trailer: Bronco U13/U14/U15 1966-1977
Car
1971 Ford Bronco Bill Stroppe Baja
Featured on Bring a Trailer: 1971 Ford Bronco Bill Stroppe Baja
Concept
Nora
Nora is a race called the Mexican 1000, where people drive off-road vehicles over a long distance in Mexico. It's a fun and challenging event for racers.
Concept
early Bronco mailing list
The Early Bronco Mailing List was a group where fans of the old Ford Bronco could talk and share ideas. It helped people connect over their love for these classic cars.
Term
classic Broncos
Classic Broncos are the older models of the Ford Bronco that were made a long time ago. Many people love them for their tough look and ability to drive off-road.
Car
Dodge Journey
The Dodge Journey is a type of SUV that has a lot of space inside, making it great for families or people who need to carry a lot of stuff. It's designed to be comfortable and useful for everyday driving.
Company
Shelby American
Shelby American is a company that makes fast and powerful cars, especially known for working on Ford Mustangs. They were started by a famous race car driver named Carroll Shelby.
Term
high horsepower engine
A high horsepower engine is one that can make a lot of power, making the vehicle faster and better for racing.
Concept
Baja 1000
The Baja 1000 is a big off-road race in Mexico where drivers compete on tough roads and trails. It's known for being really challenging.
Concept
SCORE
SCORE is a group that organizes big off-road races, like the Baja 1000. They help set the rules and make sure the races are safe and fair.
Company
Kasinger Racing
Kasinger Racing is a team that competes in off-road races, helping drivers prepare and participate in events like those in Baja.
Concept
Baja 500
The Baja 500 is a famous race that takes place in Mexico, where vehicles drive over rough terrain. It's known for being very tough and exciting for both drivers and fans.
Car
Hyundai Venue
The Hyundai Venue is a small SUV that's easy to drive around town. It's stylish and helps you save on gas, making it a good option for people who live in cities.
Car
Ford Rangers
The Ford Ranger is a smaller pickup truck that's great for both work and play. It's known for being tough and reliable, making it a popular choice for people who need a vehicle that can handle different tasks.
Concept
parts procurement
Parts procurement means finding and buying the parts needed to fix or restore cars. It's an important part of working on vehicles.
Term
NOS
NOS means 'New Old Stock'. It's a term used for brand new parts that were made a long time ago but never used. People like to find these for classic cars because they are original and fit better.
Concept
authenticity
Authenticity means that something is original and true to its history. In cars, it means using original parts and features that were in the car when it was first made, which is important for collectors.
Company
BFG
BFG stands for BFGoodrich, a brand that makes tires, especially for trucks and off-road vehicles.
Part
mud terrains
Mud terrain tires are special tires made for driving on muddy or loose surfaces, helping vehicles grip better in those conditions.
Part
Armstrong Norseman
Armstrong Norseman is a brand of tire that is strong and good for off-road driving, often used on trucks.
Part
Armstrong True Tracks
Armstrong True Tracks are tires made for off-road driving, helping vehicles stay stable and grip well on different surfaces.
Company
Bronco Driver
Bronco Driver is a magazine that focuses on the Ford Bronco. It has articles and stories for people who love this SUV and want to learn more about it.
Company
BaT
BaT, or Bring a Trailer, is a website where people can buy and sell classic cars. It's a popular place for car enthusiasts to find unique vehicles.
Car
BaT Event Coverage: Meet-Up at Arizona Car Week B+BS Show with OTTO Car Club
Featured on Bring a Trailer: BaT Event Coverage: Meet-Up at Arizona Car Week B+BS Show with OTTO Car Club
LIVE
Bring a trailer podcast. All right, welcome to another episode of the BAT podcast. This is Randy
Nonenberg, co-founder of Bring a Trailer, way back in 2007, and I'm here with some early
adopters and enthusiastic members of BAT. I've got Andrew Norton and Todd Zurker here who
have written a couple interesting pieces on BAT and been really involved around particularly
the Bronco listings, early Bronco listings on BAT. They are two of the foremost experts
I'd say in that world for soft welcome, guys. Thanks for joining. Thanks for having us.
Yeah, thanks. Great to be here, Randy. Super fun topic to talk about. We have so
many Broncos going across BAT all the time. Todd, you've literally written the book on Broncos.
We could talk about that a little bit and what led up to that. You've released that book
five years ago. Andrew, you and I have been talking about period Bronco racing and the
Bill's Strop vehicles and all sorts of different topics. You are the mastermind behind
Baha Broncos.com and have restored many of those vehicles. Sometimes the Strop trucks
are a little bit mysterious for some folks on BAT. They may know about them or may know
the history, but we can jump into that a little bit. And also, I'd love to just talk to you
guys. I feel like the market for Broncos was underground for a while. You guys were
ahead of the curve on that. And then it got all this publicity and everybody wanted
a Bronco and it went bananas. And then there were a hundred builders of Broncos. And now
we're in the settling into equilibrium aftermath of that. And I'd love yeah, just to get both
your guys take a little bit on maybe where are we now and how is that going and where
did you see it progressing from there? And also certainly would love to hear your guys
other inputs on what I may be missing there from the outside looking in sound good?
Yeah, sounds good. I can speak up about the market right now, at least from my perspective,
I'm mostly centered on the Strop Broncos. And it seems like right now they're almost
there the highest they've been. And so I have noticed that the other early Broncos maybe
are leveling off is what I've heard. And I've heard some people making purchases at
good deal prices, a lot of buyers out there have heard of doing that. But for as far as
the Strop site of things, I get calls all the time and I see the prices being up around.
I think the one that sold for $199.5 on, bring a trailer is a high watermark.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there was a time when the real Strop trucks, I feel like were
impossible. I mean, you may have known of a couple market data points, but before we even
had one on BAT that was publicly listed, those would be somewhere behind traded privately
or whatever and nobody would ever know. And they'd certainly call you as maybe the resource
for those only. And now a couple of traded on BAT and a couple, I don't know, there's
couple insane dealers that may have one listed here or there where they're like huge asking
prices. And so they're out there and I feel like people are learning and knowing about
them a little bit more. But that was a behind the scenes phenomenon. I felt like for a long
time, how many Strops did they produce Andrew? They produced about 450 according to Marty
report statistics. And that's based on some early stuff that I think I collaborated with
Marty early in 2002 maybe and told him, Hey, how many Broncos from 71 to 75? I think
by then he was only doing up to 73, but we figured out that Broncos with a certain DSO code
and a certain year range and sport package, how many can we say came from there? And we
came up the numbers for that. I think it was like 171s, 80, 72s, 120, 73s. And in the last
years, there's about 30 each. However, there's some special orders in there. And that's
where the, if you add all those numbers up, it's almost, it's like less than 400. And in
reality, gray area ones out there that need to have special eyes on them. But yeah, I would
say to be honest, about between 500 and 600 is probably the true number.
Well, I'm sure our audience can hear that that sort of expertise and knowledge of those
numbers just shows who we're talking about this with here. You guys are the experts on
the topic. But you guys are not just two random experts that we've thrown on a podcast.
You guys actually have a history with each other going back a friendship, maybe through
the small world of Bronco connections, but you guys have been in trucks together. Let's
give the audience a little insight into who you guys are and why we chose you to chat
with on this topic. You guys have been racing Broncos for how many years you just mentioned
2002. You were digging around in chassis codes with Kevin Marty. That's pretty solid.
But it goes back even before that. I know you guys are Ford guys for a super long time.
But where did the, who, who of the two of you gets to say I owned a Bronco first?
Well, I guess I can say I had a Bronco first, but I technically own it. I got, I consider
my relationship with my Bronco starting back in 1981 when I was 12 years old at the time
and my dad bought a Bronco. And I immediately fell in love with it. Like you said, I was
a Ford kid came from a Ford family and thought it was awesome. And I already started driving
a little off road before that. And so I immediately started driving the Bronco off road
in the outside, the little town where we lived and so on. And that started my love affair
with it. So that's 40 plus years ago now. And then Andrew and I met each other in the
1990s via some mailing lists and user groups and forums. When I got married a number of
years back, my wife's always jokes and says, Andrew was my first online romance. And
so that's how it started. And at some point, we figured out that we both love this
drop stuff. You can't be into Broncos. And we both loved off road racing. And so you
can't be into off road racing and early Broncos and not fall in love with Bill's
drop in all those early pioneers that were down there in Baja banging around in those
early years. It's just incredible history. And we really loved it. So yeah, we've had
a long friendship and partnership on some ownership of some vehicles together that made
a lot of great memories together for sure. I guess we started racing and well, we went
down for Nora the first time in 2010, the first year that they had the race. And Andrew
and I had a truck that we owned together at the time and some friends of ours built the
truck, restored the truck basically for us. And then we went down with them and they
raced it and started it all for us. Fantastic. Andrew, mid 90s, you guys get linked up
on I remember mailing lists. I was on different email mailing lists for a few different types
of cars in the early days. That's how people's connected over many things before there
was B.A.C. and any social media of any kind really. So that linked you guys up. How broad
would you say was the Bronco world back then versus how it feels to you guys now?
It felt like a small community. It really was. It was a really small community and people
were starting to put up little websites about just what they were working on in their garage.
And we were all on that mailing list. I remember there was a big list of websites that people
had created and there was like 12 on there. And I'd regularly check those to see who
was doing what with their green 73. And my friend Terry and his Bronco barn restoring
a 66 roadster, probably one of the first people to restore a 66 roadster. And it certainly
felt small. Yeah, definitely. And now, especially since I'm still so focused on the drop stuff,
my own little, the straw thing feels big now. So it feels bigger than what we started
with in 1995 or six with that email list that we had. What was it even called? What
was the email that's called? It was you guys run it? Or did you know some dude that ran
it? I was one of the five. I had no tech experience whatsoever. And I still don't when it comes
to running stuff like this. But it was called the EBML, the early Bronco mailing list and
we started it. There were five of us that started it in February of 1995. We were on a larger
off road list. And the Bronco gigs were having side conversations. And somebody said, let's
start a Bronco mailing list. And so we split off and started this Bronco mailing list. And
then there were, I think there were two or three mailing lists at one time. And then those
kind of collapsed. And we went to forums, classic Broncos.com is a forum that everyone went
to. A lot of people store on there. And then obviously like everyone else, you made the
transition to Facebook and Instagram and all the socials. But yeah, I love picking at
that and hearing about that. I mean, seeing the transition of cars from being a something
listed in paper classified to move in everything online and how it has connected people or sort
of develop the audience and enthusiasm around cars is something that I think is super interesting.
So anyway, thanks for sharing a little bit about the olden days. So you guys get linked
up. You guys appreciate the perspective one another have for Broncos and Strop and early
times and racing and different sorts of things. You guys start doing that sort of thing together.
Tell us a little bit about how the journey has gone since then. I presume in the early days
you guys were owning sort of standard Broncos and that has evolved into the kind of more wild
stuff that you guys own now. Being in race trucks and trucks with early history and that
sort of stuff, I presume you didn't just come out of the gate, own in Baja winners and
that sort of stuff in the day, you probably started with six-cylinder trucks or a standard
daily type trucks like most of us started with. Tell us about the beginnings versus where
it's come to.
Yeah, I guess I'll chime in here about my first Bronco purchase. I was in college and I
really wanted a Baja Bronco. I'd already talked a friend into buying a Baja Bronco. Sorry
I was building that skill. And then once he got it, I got super jealous and I answered
an ad in Heming's Motor news for a Baja Bronco. I was so excited to find another one.
I'd only found about four. And I flew to Texas, sight unseen, bought the 73 Baja Bronco,
my first Bronco at half a year's. What year's this?
This was 1995, 96. Okay, early 96. January or February. And I drove it back from Texas
on these bald tires and that was my first one. It was a true Baja Bronco with this drop
paperwork in the glove box and everything. I know the truck now it's restored and it's
in a good home, but that was a neat truck to start with. And then I've pretty much always
had straps, but that's just because I'm super fixated on them. And back to like how Todd
was saying, if you like early Broncos and you like to learn the history and everything,
that's how we both ended up there. But for me, like I was into Shelby's as a little kid.
And I think being involved with the Shelby American Automobile Club and how they picked
apart things and looked at the race vehicles and they were serious, enthusiast on that level,
that's, I applied what I had learned through being involved in that club and all their
newsletters and things that the guys, the big dogs from SAC back in the 80s and 90s would write
about. And so that's how I did my research and got so excited about the early racing Broncos.
And I think, Todd, you could probably tell the story of the red Bronco that we own together,
because that's when we both, we had been on that mailing list for maybe two or three years.
And then you told me about that one race truck. Yeah, Randy, you had asked about my ownership.
I've been a fairly monogamous Bronco owner. I just literally have the same Bronco that my dead
bought back in 1981. And I'm creeping up on 400,000 miles on it now. So it gets driven a lot.
Wow. I always knew about the straps, but I didn't have the, the strong infatuation in a
love form that Andrew did. I mean, I liked him. I thought they were cool, but he was the man
when it came to the Baja Broncos. And there was a guy in my Bronco club who had an old stop racer.
And I knew what it was, but I didn't really pay that much attention to it. And he was crusty and
hard to deal with. But at some point, Andrew and I decided that would be cool to have this old
stop racer. And so he drifted out of the club, but I kept in contact with him. He's one of those
kind of guys that you just everyone has done this probably where you don't really like the person,
but you keep contact with him just in hopes someday they're going to sell it and they'll think of you.
And that's what I did. I dropped by this guy's work and talked to him even if it was painful.
And I would send him emails every so often. And then in 2008, one night, I got an email from this guy.
And it's the heading on the message. I knew he was going to sell it. And I opened it up and he says,
you know anyone that wants to buy this shop racing Bronco? And he had listed the price and it was
within a thousand dollars of what Andrew and I had previously agreed that we would pay for this
truck. And it was like, this is divine. So I immediately emailed him bank said, we'll buy it.
And so that's what started our ownership together and our entree into the racing rigs seen.
So I had to buy it in my time. That one, from the time I first found it until the time we were
able to buy it was 15 years. So we had to really be patient to to get that truck. Give us
something to chew on here. All I heard was a red stop racing truck. Like, what is this thing here?
What was it then or what is it now? Well, it's made quite a transformation. The way he had it,
it was configured into a basically a glamest dude runner. It had a high horse power engine,
paddle tires. It was painted red, a predator carburetor at one time. If you're
a racer, there's no what predator car. Yeah, I do. And the thing never ran right. That was the
thing. We'd always take it out and then he'd just work on it continuously at our events and it
would never run right. So we got it and worked on it and figured out the history on it. And what
we determined was that it was the actual overall winner of the 1969 Mexican 1000 or Baja 1000s.
We know it today. And that was the first and only up until maybe the last three years.
Four wheel drive vehicle to win. The Baja 1000 overall was driven by Rod Hall and Larry Miner.
And we did a lot of detective work to determine that going over old photos and looking at things.
And then we had it restored for racing. We raced it in 2012 in Nora. And then it lived a comfortable
life. It was in a movie. It was in a couple of books. It was in several magazine features.
And it now resides in a private collection in Colorado. A comfortable retirement.
But it's really quite a storied truck, even in the off-road racing world, not just the Bronco
world. And it looks like it did in 69 for its win, right? That's its current aesthetic.
Yeah, pretty much. Actually, I think we have the 71 or 72 Baja 1000s. It's one of those things.
These trucks, they had such a long life and that's so many different paint jobs and deliveries.
And you're like, well, what's the one that we really like the most? Whatever. It's a color scheme
or whatever. And so we had to put a pin in the timeline and say, okay, we're going to paint
it like this to look like this. And so that's what we did. Yeah. Even though it wasn't
its most famous race, we've got it with the 72 Baja 1000 livery. I'll say Andrew is an incredible
automotive archaeologist with this stuff. He can sand down paint on cars like guys analyzing
tree rings. And it took determined how trees are. I mean, it's just there were what four or five
layers of paint on the fiberglass Andrew. It was incredible. Yeah, they basically you could tell
the timeline of the race. And that's also part of what some of the trucks were white in orange.
Other trucks were blue in orange. The blue changed a couple of times. And we were able to trace
that all the way back on one of the door inserts all the way back to 69 race. Super cool.
Okay, so that one is a milestone. That may be the is that the best Bronco out there or
are there others? Are you guys big olie believers or what's the mountaintop for Broncos? I think
maybe it's that truck that you guys restored and raced. I would say maybe this is just my opinion.
And I think Andrew chime in too. My opinion is big olie is the mountaintop. But most people can't
get to the mountaintop. And so for a couple of guys like Andrew and I to have that truck with 69
winner. I think that's probably pretty darn close to the peak for what we could have. And
Andrew, you've got some other ones. So maybe you've had some other feelings on that. Yeah, and I
think with what Strop did with the racing Broncos, I mean, he started with four trucks that were
pretty close to stock that were given to him by Ford. And they evolved so much over the years.
And even when you take the 69 winner that we had and the level that it was prepped to,
but then you compare it to what Parnelli was racing in the same race was a very similar truck,
although it was sectioned a couple inches and shortened about four inches and two inch shorter
wheelbase. They were already getting into that. I want to build big olie mindset or Parnelli was.
He wanted something lighter each time. And then by 70, they had the pony, the two wheel drive truck.
I mean, you can put them all next to each other and and each one of these things that still
exists, which is about seven or eight. I think if you include big olie, and there's probably
a couple more out there that are in the spotlight. But if you put them all next to each other,
they each have unique features and things that make them special. So it's really hard for me to say
big olie's the top of the mountain. And the 69 winner is something that the average joke can
get their hands on it. I mean, we got our hands on it for a while. But I guess it's just hard
because each truck seems to have its own idea of what was going to get the race one. And it's unique
to that truck. So that's what's interesting to me at least. I think it's interesting to do a whole
lot of folks. So I think yeah, I've been lucky to visit your shop up there in Marin County and
see some of the crazy trucks that you have in there. I'm sure that's only just scratching the surface
of the ones you've seen and maybe even restored. But yeah, seeing the ones with the race modifications
and you walking me through top to bottom on those trucks was fascinating for me and there's
so much to learn there and talk to us about Nora and how it's opened the door in terms of people's
enthusiasm for these types of trucks. I think first of all, there's that event. But second of all,
there's these vintage trucks. Like are they all going into museums or are these going to be out
and used the way that you guys were using them in what you were saying in 2012, 13, 14 sort of
time frame. Do you think more of the special stuff is being brought out and used or more of the
special stuff now is being stashed away? I feel like a lot of it's being stashed away a little bit.
There's a couple people in Nora that are still racing really important vehicles. My friend Mac
runs the Dodge pickup truck that Rod Hall drove the most and he's pretty adamant about
having a vintage vehicle to drive and I commend him for keeping on using that as long as he has.
We got to a point where we had the opportunity to run another Strop Bronco, but it wasn't a
Strop racer. So we ended up shifting gears and getting out of the 69 winner and racing something
that Baja Broncos unlimited built for a client and just had a really good team together like that.
So that was centered around having a car and a team that owned the car.
But yeah, I think I have seen less original race vehicles out at Nora in the last four or five years,
but I'd like to see, I'd like to see people run them, but then there's also that thing is that
they're a piece of history. So better be careful. I mean, we took damage a couple times in Nora. It's
part of the game, but I'd like to see more people racing vintage stuff, but I also would love a
place where we could go to a museum and see it all there. And I feel like those days are heading
here soon. Yeah, I agree. I think maybe 10 years ago, we saw some more vintage rigs out there,
but yeah, Nora is changing and they're skewing a little away from the historical stuff now.
There's more side by side and some things like that. So probably fewer vintage vehicles out there,
but there's still a few. Tell people a little bit about how that's organized. I presume most people
listening don't know too much about Nora. You guys, how many times have you guys done it? Each of you?
I think Andrew, you've probably done it 11 times. I think I did it 10 times. So Nora is a rebirth of
Nora was the original sanctioning body for the Mexican 1000 brace, the Baja 500 and so on from
1967 until 1973. And then there was a gap of a year or two and then score took over and score
has run it ever since. So Nora was reborn back in 2010. They made a big deal about wanting to
bring vintage vehicles back and they run what they call a rally format. So instead of a
bombs away, score Baja 1000, we race until we finish 20 hours, 24 hours, whatever it takes you to
finish in one swat. You now go down the peninsula in a rally format and it takes five days now,
I think, over a course of about 12 or 1300 miles and there are transit stages that are pavement
because there's more and more pavement coming to Baja like there is everywhere, but then you go
out into the desert, do what are called special stages and there might be a 150 mile dirt loop
and you go then run that as fast as you can. And so you're still out running around in the dirt,
but you're dealing with the realities of how civilization has changed Baja. It's still an incredible
amount of fun. Yeah, it costs a lot of money, but it's far more affordable than trying to run
a score team. Guys like Andrew and I've been very blessed to be able to run this kind of a race
and I think it's the only way we could have ever raced in Baja is to do something like Nora because
scores for the big boys. Yeah, and a big shout out to Sue Kasinger,
from Kasinger Racing for holding our team together and getting us down there and making it possible
for us. And she knows every ice cream shop in Baja. And are you have you guys hung up the helmets
or do you guys have plans 10 and 11 years? Have you got plans of doing more racing in Baja?
Are you guys done? Well, I would say we're not done. We're I will say we're on maybe I don't know
what do we say Andrew? Maybe we're on a little hiatus until we get another truck done to go down
there. Yeah, many hiatus. We have one truck that we really want to bring down there again,
but it needs a ton of work. And we're chipping away at that, but we need a little bit more time
to get it done. And it's the the overall winner of the 70 Baja 500, uh,
partly Jones first win in Baja. Is that right, Tom? Yeah, first time pony bronco ever held a
Bronco together to win. And so we that's our new truck that we co-owned together and doesn't
really look anything like it did in 1970, but it'll be close before we come to the start line again
with it. So I love that. That's fighting the good fight as far as I'm concerned. You say I'm a
little sad, Andrew, when you say yeah, they're not bringing vintage trucks out anymore. You know,
these are all going to be in a Las Vegas museum. And we're going to remember the old mint four
hundred days or whatever. But man, one thing I do remember when there was a good amount of PR around
Nora's sort of rebirth or relaunch in 2010. I'm not as lucky as you guys that I've got to be out there
and get my hands dirty. But I've watched it from afar. And I just thought that was so great that
there was that seems like the primary venue for getting the old stuff back out, right? Because
those are the pictures. Even I know you guys love Broncos, but even the pickups that were run in
the motorcraft, delivery, rangers and all that stuff that was run. And I mean, bring that stuff out.
Those trucks have to be all hiding somewhere. And nobody's running those in modern score racing.
So I was super encouraged when Nora was redesigned and rebirth. And obviously it brought a bunch of
your cool Broncos out, but it's brought, yeah, Dodges and everything else too. Bring the Nissan's and
bring the Toyota factory trucks, all that sort of thing. So to hear that you're working on a Bronco
and going to bring it back out to Nora that kind of keeps my faith. Man, if Nora turns into all
Honda side by sides, I think I don't know. We all have to find some other event or some other
two. So anyway, encouraging. I'd love to follow along and see how it's going with the restoration of
that truck. The pony you guys are calling it. Is that right? That one's called the pony.
Yep, called the pony. And that was, I think, Strop or Parnelli called it that somebody named it.
They named several of the trucks, which is handy if you're not looking to the detail that we are,
if you're looking at pictures of the trucks, a lot of them had the name of the truck or its race record
on the windshield header panel just below the windscreens. And this one was called pony. And I
currently own one that was called Colt and Big Hoss. And it was nice that they named them each
one instead of just being cars, serial number four. It's kind of a theme with the naming there.
Yeah, for sure. For Jason Bronco, adjacent horse and Jason, right? For some type of horse and
you've got it. So you guys are working on that truck. That's a nice little segue into the audience.
We'll be able to see the trucks behind you, but you are in Baja Broncos Unlimited World HQ there.
I see the trucks behind you and you are actively restoring trucks. And you operate primarily
out of your own shop and are running that business. It's your primary focus as my understanding is
working and restoring and researching these sort of vehicles. Is that right? Tell people about the
Baja Broncos Unlimited journey. Yeah, absolutely. I started it as a side gig in 1998 and
started producing the decals and everything met with Willie Strop and got his blessing to do a lot
of what I do. And from there, it just really is Bill's kid or who's Willie? Yes, Willie Strop is
Bill's son. And sadly, he passed away last August, I think. And he became a friend of both
of ours and he was always someone that we could go to and show what we found or ask about what we
found. He was helpful many times with both the racer research and then some of the, like I said,
those other Strop Broncos that are, hey, why is this one yellow or why is this one have two hoops
on the roll bar instead of one? He was always there and helpful with us, but not highly involved in
early Broncos in the last 20 years, except for maybe the last five or six years he went to shows
and helped the awareness there. But yeah, so around 2008, I went full time doing body off
restorations and then I'd also do the buying and selling and also have had to help some people
authenticate trucks, appraise trucks, Baja Broncos. It's like you said earlier on they weren't out in
the spotlight, but there was a lot of us who recognized what they were and were very excited about
and sometimes I would have to write appraisals showing the history of Baja Broncos to either an
insurance company or a dealer or somebody who had one just so they would have something to go on
is like, okay, this thing is authenticated and it is valuable. So that's something that I also do
and then after finding that one racer that Todd and I had, I also just made it my mission to look
for these other racers and find them and find new homes for them. It's my main gig now and it doesn't
have a definition that fits into a box, but I do a lot of parts procurement and appraisals and
events and still do restorations. I've got a 73 Baja Bronco frame off that's coming to completion
and then I'm working on a lifeguard Bronco that Bilstra built two of for Long Beach City and they're
super cool. It's like a Baja Bronco with a surfboard on top and a gurney on top and all the
resuscitation stuff inside it. Sitting on 15 by 10s, Gates Commandos. It's a cool thing.
Oh man, you sent me some pictures of that track and I actually love to talk about that. I could
tell you're proud of that one. How the heck are you going to get Gates Commandos on that thing?
Are there any of those around anymore that aren't totally sun rotten and gone or can you actually find
authentic tires for that thing somehow? I can't find them. Maybe if we get together with some other
people in the hobby, we can have some made, but I do have a few NOS here and then I've got some
some links on baked ones with liners on the inside and they look good enough for me. I'm going to
put them on there if we need to. You've got NOS Gates tires? I have two NOS and then I've got
like maybe three that have decent threads. I got enough for one truck and then I have another
I can't say goodbye to you, Seth. Oh man, you are a psycho in the best way.
You're hoarding Gates off road tires from the 70s, but you got to have it, right? I mean,
the picture that you sent me, I think it's next to a guard station tower or something, right?
And it's definitely got those tires on it. So that's authenticity. It's hard to pull that off.
That's a frustration of mine in the truck world for sure. I can't BFG just make the first
mud terrains and just leave it at that for the rest of time. Do we have to change it?
Right? I wouldn't buy those over and over again. I think many people would, but many is not
enough. I have a feeling to steer it. Yeah. Any time I see an older set of tires that could
come back, I try and grab them. I've got some Armstrong Norseman, some Armstrong True Tracks.
I just love those old tires and I mean, they can add a whole lot to a truck sitting at a show.
If you don't have 20, 25 tires on it, yeah, for sure. Anyway, cool. Thanks for telling us about
that and you have your website and that's how I first got to know you and I grew up in the same
area and had a couple of chance encounters knowing what kind of vehicles we were into. But also,
once you had the website, I started following about howbrongers.com. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think
you may have used to had a for sale tab on there, but there were never trucks really transacting on
there. I don't think or were there because my whole deal was like trolling the entire internet,
finding interesting stuff for sale. So I would have loved. I press refresh on your tab probably
a thousand times, hoping there was going to be a drop project for 19 grand and there never was.
But I think that may have been part of the website modeling the early days, but you're not really
a sales platform for those, I don't think. No, but you're right back in the day. I would put
trucks up there for sale. And I think right now there's four old ads up there. But yes,
I would even create like if somebody, I remember one time a guy contacted me from like
Los Alamos, and he's like, hey, I need to sell this Baja Bronco. So I like made him a page for it
with his number on it, the description of what I could see. This must have been like 1999 or 2000.
And I got bought it and actually the truck's been on, bring a trailer since then. The belongs to
guy named Sean Lindsay. But yeah, I tried to do my best to get those trucks out there. But I think
what would happen is I would remove the link from the for sale thing as soon as it was gone.
And they wouldn't last long. Even I mean, if you're looking for a Baja Bronco, you're pretty serious
and you're going to look where they are. And I mean, I bought the first one that I could find.
So make sense. I know I just remember trolling your website. Todd, if you had had a website
for me to search and seek and reload every single day, I definitely would have done that too.
So tell me a little bit about what you're looking forward to, Todd. It sounds like you may be restoring
this race truck that's coming up in the next couple of years or clicking over to 400,000 miles on
Dad's old truck. That sounds like a meaningful milestone. Tell me what's keeping you going and
excited about Broncos these days. Well, several different things. Yeah, one, I'm just the older I get
the less I like to work on my truck. But there's always projects on that to keep going. And so I'm
constantly either maintaining it or updating it. And I just, I do a lot of backcountry exploration and
it go all over Arizona. I sometimes get up into Nevada and Colorado with that with friends. So always
enjoy that. In addition to the book, I do some other writing from time to time. I've written a
few articles for bring a trailer on various topics. Ben's always trying to see if I'll write this
or write that sometimes I buy and sometimes I don't. And I also write for a little magazine called
Bronco Driver. I've done that for about 24, 25 years. So I write articles for them. I write a
few articles for websites here and there. Just interesting things that come up. The book gave me
a few opportunities for things I was able to help forward with their website when the Bronco came
out and help them with some history of that. And there's other opportunities I'm out there between
writing and driving my Broncos. That's what I look forward to. And of course, getting the race
truck going in that next few years as well. Because once you get that Baja, it's got to be scratched.
And it's just hard to not be down there every year, driving through the silt and the dirt down
there. That's some good stuff to be looking forward to. And you've brought one of your Broncos.
I'm not sure if it's the one we're talking about out to a couple BAT events. You were out last
year in the Arizona 9-11-R event we did. You brought a cool Bronco to that. Was that the one we're
talking about? I've seen a photo of it. I wasn't there but I've seen a photo of it. Yeah, that's the
one I brought it to that. And I think another time this was way back in the early days I met you at
you had a little BAT easy up at Copper State before the Copper State went there.
2001 year that was really that met you and had my Bronco there that year. I came to the BAT event
this past Saturday at Auto but had some friends in town so bringing the Bronco out wasn't really
in the cards but if you guys are in Phoenix, I'm usually at one of your events to meet and greet
people and look at all the cool cars. I love that. I appreciate that. Now there was 4,000 people
or something there on Saturday. It was fun and I always appreciate that you're a sportor and you're
out there and just having Broncos out there invisible I think is really cool as they got a reputation
for being expensive I would say in COVID when the SUV kind of craze went nuts and I would say Broncos
are at the top of that, right? I mean cruisers got expensive, scouts got everything kind of went nuts
but Broncos really just rocketed and it was like oh man is this the last time any of us are going to
afford any Bronco of any flavor not just the straw ones but any of them, right? And I think they
little down particularly then just normal run of the mill Broncos are back down to a somewhat
attainable level which I actually think is encouraging because that means more of them will be driving
around instead of again hidden away and collections and that sort of thing but have you guys seen that
or what do you guys think I want to ask you two more things here as we maybe close. Obviously the
sort of cycle of the market post COVID will talk about that but then also obviously what Ford did
with the relaunch of the modern Bronco and what that has done for the vintage ones positive or negative
I'd love to hear you guys input on that but given the things have milled out a little bit here post
COVID do you feel like the Bronco enthusiasts like I want to see young people driving Broncos around
I don't know if that's a pipe dream now given some of the price points but it's cool to see people in
their 20s drive in old cars and appreciating them as opposed to just a bunch of old guys who wanted
them back in the day and it was tough for that in COVID when they all became 80 and a hundred
thousand dollars to drive it just run of the mill Bronco I mean I got I think it got crazy was my
point of view what did you guys think about how that was and how did that evolve this sort of user base.
Well it's definitely shifted the enthusiast base away from the long time enthusiasts that
Andrew and I described earlier for sure I do a lot of people that just wanted a cool truck to
drive around and be seen in I think I live in Phoenix so there's tons of Broncos around and a lot
of them do they go to the gym or they go to the ice cream shop or that kind of thing so you'll see
a lot more of those although like you said I have seen the market simmer down a little bit just an
example I have a co-worker here at work he's not a young guy I'd say in his 40s he's been after me
for an early Bronco for probably four or five years and they just kept going up and up and he didn't
adjust his calibrations on what he wanted to pay so I said Mike you're never going to find one
it's either just it's just bonkers and so literally finally about three or four months ago I found
one forum that a friend was selling here at town and they made the deal and he now has a Bronco
after sitting here dreaming of one for five or six years so I think there are people out there now
that are finally maybe able to get something other than just a rusty chassis for 30,000 he's got
something that's running and driving and I see that I saw that I went to Barrett Jackson for several
days this past weekend and there was one truck there that was you know it was pretty decent
make a nice driver and it sold for 30k you know that's more within reach of what people can
afford I think the rest don't mod types with the coyotes and the 10 speeds are still going to be
huge dollars but I saw those softening too you know the last two or three years a lot of those
trucks were between 200,000 400,000 a lot of them at the show this year of the same build caliber were
more 100 to 160 or 170 now that's still crazy money for most of us but it does show that the top
line on even those top trucks is coming down in terms of price so I hope that bring a trailer
for people back into them I have a nephew he's a senior in college now he got a Bronco from Andrew
running and driving I don't know probably about five years ago six years ago maybe right before
COVID went came and prices went crazy and he's a rare 20 or 21 year old kid driving his own early
Bronco around now he's done a lot of work to it had some health from his parents and stuff but
you don't see a lot of 21 year old kids working on early Broncos anymore so it's encouraging to see
people like him that are able to do that yeah it's I think with the the new Bronco coming out
it brought more awareness to Broncos just in general and I saw two things of that I saw young people
getting excited about Broncos of any year but also just an uptick in the early Bronco love
and then the other thing I saw come from that that I like is that nobody's called it a Jeep anytime
I've been driving it out like people know what Broncos are now kids riding by on a bike nice Bronco
and like they know it it's not like oh cool Jeep where'd you get that and there's nothing wrong
with Jeeps it's just I like to because to me they don't look very similar but I guess to some people
they do but the recognition's been important and then speaking to the market side of things on the
other level of like I'll go down to like the project level to get in tune with like bring a trailer
you need to bring a trailer to buy some of these Broncos that are offered for sale because they don't
run but I'm still seeing it very difficult to find something in the 18 to 20 range that yeah
it needs floors and needs everything that's still a hard truck to find honestly every time I see one
for 18 or 20 I said oh maybe I should go look at that and let's just see how bad it is especially
if it's running because even the chassis you see somebody selling a chassis in a title and it's
10 grand still so the lower end of it I still I don't see the lower end trucks dropping much yet
that's helpful it's helpful inside it's interesting to watch right I mean the covid phenomenon was
a weird one and at the modern Bronco change was super meaningful for Ford and for all you guys
as enthusiasts and you see them all over the place and the Bronco names all over the place and a
bunch of marketing and I think it's great I think it's all positive and I think it is
increased awareness on early trucks I've known a number of people who weren't destined for an
early truck and steered them towards getting a modern Bronco which was the right call 100% and that's
what they got and they're very happy and they would have been miserably unhappy in a video
ago just because they thought it was the fantasy doesn't mean it would have played out so
positively in real life but then there are some folks that I've had a very similar story taught a
couple people that kind of waited out the huge bubble and then they're like hey wait these are
starting to get a little more reasonable so a couple guys that have grabbed them on BET in the last
six months and it's cool to see them in them they just had to wait a little while longer so
anyhow it'll continue to evolve and you guys are right at the heart of it and overall I just
wanted to express that we definitely appreciate that you guys are involved in BET in the BET community
and share your insights I see you guys commenting on Bronco listings that we have on BET and the more
information that can be out there and can be shared I always think the better so I'm a big fan of
folks that were on email mailing lists back in the 90s trying to share stuff with folks and now
that's playing out with BET as a component of that so I want to say thanks to both of you.
Absolutely for the platform it's addicting and I'll confess I spend way too much time on there
I can have a routine but yeah I yeah I've made some friends I haven't met the people in person
yet but there's a few people on there that I consider friends now and I know nothing more
than their username I try and be on there more as I can especially when the drop trucks and other
cool Broncos if I've got some time it's fun to get on there see what people are saying add something
if I can it's great fantastic well I appreciate that from both you guys we'd love to see more
drop trucks on there too Andrew I know you're feeding those into their proper homes and if you auction
them on BET who knows where they go they could go overseas or who knows what so that's a little
terrifying but in general we'd love to see a few more out there invisible so people can learn about
them I love that they're not really a secret any longer and and that story is getting broader and
broader and both of you guys are a meaningful driver of that and helpful for that and your racing
stories are inspiring so I hope you don't roll your eyes when a guy like me is asking you all about
your racing stories I love hearing all that so hopefully I'll be able to see that firsthand
before long but excited to chat with both of you thanks so much for spending some time with us
today and any parting shots from either you thank you so much for having us it's been fun chatting
with you guys I feel like sometimes I don't chat enough about this stuff and thanks again for that
yeah just thank you for the opportunity to be on I was very honored when Ben sent a note and
said hey would you guys be on I was like wow okay because I I love listening to the podcast and
yeah it's just an honor to be on thank you oh you guys are kind to say that yeah yeah we like
given people a little more context about who these people are that are commenting on vehicles so it's
good to hear your actual voices so thanks for the time today and hope we can connect with you guys
again soon and for everybody out there listening thanks for listening to the BET podcasts and check
in for the next one
About this episode
Todd Zuercher and Andrew Norton, experts in the world of Broncos, dive deep into the history and market dynamics of these iconic vehicles. They discuss their personal journeys with Broncos, from early ownership to racing experiences in Baja. The conversation touches on the evolution of the Bronco community, the impact of the modern Bronco's release, and the current state of the market, highlighting both the challenges and opportunities for enthusiasts. With insights into rare Strop Broncos and their restoration projects, this episode is a treasure trove for anyone interested in the legacy of these classic off-roaders.
Original notes
In episode 107 of the BaT Podcast, Randy speaks with Todd Zuercher and Andrew Norton about their mutual love, the classic racing Bronco. They discuss the archaic days of the Early Bronco on the Early Internet, applying learnings from the SAAC to Baja Broncos, the value of staying in touch with someone you don't like for the sake of acquiring their special vehicle, taking damage in vintage iron, an entreaty to NORRA, the frustration of procuring period-appropriate offroad tires, backcountry exploration, and an overdue move toward sanity in the vintage Bronco market.
Follow along! Links for the listings discussed in this episode:
1:49 First-gen Bronco Model Page and Bill Stroppe Broncos on BaT
2:24 1971 Ford Bronco Bill Stroppe Baja
25:14 Baja Broncos Unlimited website
32:02 Todd_Z Articles and User Page on BaT
33:15 Todd's Bronco at the 2024 BaT Alumni Gathering in Scottsdale
33:49 BaT Event Coverage: Meet-Up at Arizona Car Week B+BS Show with OTTO Car Club
Got suggestions for our next guest from the BaT community or One Year Garage episode? Let us know at [email protected]!
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