Baja Broncos with Todd Zuercher and Andrew Norton

Bring a trailer podcast. All right, welcome to another episode of the BAT podcast. This is Randy

Nonenberg, co-founder of Bring a Trailer, way back in 2007, and I'm here with some early

adopters and enthusiastic members of BAT. I've got Andrew Norton and Todd Zurker here who

have written a couple interesting pieces on BAT and been really involved around particularly

the Bronco listings, early Bronco listings on BAT. They are two of the foremost experts

I'd say in that world for soft welcome, guys. Thanks for joining. Thanks for having us.

Yeah, thanks. Great to be here, Randy. Super fun topic to talk about. We have so

many Broncos going across BAT all the time. Todd, you've literally written the book on Broncos.

We could talk about that a little bit and what led up to that. You've released that book

five years ago. Andrew, you and I have been talking about period Bronco racing and the

Bill's Strop vehicles and all sorts of different topics. You are the mastermind behind

Baha Broncos.com and have restored many of those vehicles. Sometimes the Strop trucks

are a little bit mysterious for some folks on BAT. They may know about them or may know

the history, but we can jump into that a little bit. And also, I'd love to just talk to you

guys. I feel like the market for Broncos was underground for a while. You guys were

ahead of the curve on that. And then it got all this publicity and everybody wanted

a Bronco and it went bananas. And then there were a hundred builders of Broncos. And now

we're in the settling into equilibrium aftermath of that. And I'd love yeah, just to get both

your guys take a little bit on maybe where are we now and how is that going and where

did you see it progressing from there? And also certainly would love to hear your guys

other inputs on what I may be missing there from the outside looking in sound good?

Yeah, sounds good. I can speak up about the market right now, at least from my perspective,

I'm mostly centered on the Strop Broncos. And it seems like right now they're almost

there the highest they've been. And so I have noticed that the other early Broncos maybe

are leveling off is what I've heard. And I've heard some people making purchases at

good deal prices, a lot of buyers out there have heard of doing that. But for as far as

the Strop site of things, I get calls all the time and I see the prices being up around.

I think the one that sold for $199.5 on, bring a trailer is a high watermark.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there was a time when the real Strop trucks, I feel like were

impossible. I mean, you may have known of a couple market data points, but before we even

had one on BAT that was publicly listed, those would be somewhere behind traded privately

or whatever and nobody would ever know. And they'd certainly call you as maybe the resource

for those only. And now a couple of traded on BAT and a couple, I don't know, there's

couple insane dealers that may have one listed here or there where they're like huge asking

prices. And so they're out there and I feel like people are learning and knowing about

them a little bit more. But that was a behind the scenes phenomenon. I felt like for a long

time, how many Strops did they produce Andrew? They produced about 450 according to Marty

report statistics. And that's based on some early stuff that I think I collaborated with

Marty early in 2002 maybe and told him, Hey, how many Broncos from 71 to 75? I think

by then he was only doing up to 73, but we figured out that Broncos with a certain DSO code

and a certain year range and sport package, how many can we say came from there? And we

came up the numbers for that. I think it was like 171s, 80, 72s, 120, 73s. And in the last

years, there's about 30 each. However, there's some special orders in there. And that's

where the, if you add all those numbers up, it's almost, it's like less than 400. And in

reality, gray area ones out there that need to have special eyes on them. But yeah, I would

say to be honest, about between 500 and 600 is probably the true number.

Well, I'm sure our audience can hear that that sort of expertise and knowledge of those

numbers just shows who we're talking about this with here. You guys are the experts on

the topic. But you guys are not just two random experts that we've thrown on a podcast.

You guys actually have a history with each other going back a friendship, maybe through

the small world of Bronco connections, but you guys have been in trucks together. Let's

give the audience a little insight into who you guys are and why we chose you to chat

with on this topic. You guys have been racing Broncos for how many years you just mentioned

2002. You were digging around in chassis codes with Kevin Marty. That's pretty solid.

But it goes back even before that. I know you guys are Ford guys for a super long time.

But where did the, who, who of the two of you gets to say I owned a Bronco first?

Well, I guess I can say I had a Bronco first, but I technically own it. I got, I consider

my relationship with my Bronco starting back in 1981 when I was 12 years old at the time

and my dad bought a Bronco. And I immediately fell in love with it. Like you said, I was

a Ford kid came from a Ford family and thought it was awesome. And I already started driving

a little off road before that. And so I immediately started driving the Bronco off road

in the outside, the little town where we lived and so on. And that started my love affair

with it. So that's 40 plus years ago now. And then Andrew and I met each other in the

1990s via some mailing lists and user groups and forums. When I got married a number of

years back, my wife's always jokes and says, Andrew was my first online romance. And

so that's how it started. And at some point, we figured out that we both love this

drop stuff. You can't be into Broncos. And we both loved off road racing. And so you

can't be into off road racing and early Broncos and not fall in love with Bill's

drop in all those early pioneers that were down there in Baja banging around in those

early years. It's just incredible history. And we really loved it. So yeah, we've had

a long friendship and partnership on some ownership of some vehicles together that made

a lot of great memories together for sure. I guess we started racing and well, we went

down for Nora the first time in 2010, the first year that they had the race. And Andrew

and I had a truck that we owned together at the time and some friends of ours built the

truck, restored the truck basically for us. And then we went down with them and they

raced it and started it all for us. Fantastic. Andrew, mid 90s, you guys get linked up

on I remember mailing lists. I was on different email mailing lists for a few different types

of cars in the early days. That's how people's connected over many things before there

was B.A.C. and any social media of any kind really. So that linked you guys up. How broad

would you say was the Bronco world back then versus how it feels to you guys now?

It felt like a small community. It really was. It was a really small community and people

were starting to put up little websites about just what they were working on in their garage.

And we were all on that mailing list. I remember there was a big list of websites that people

had created and there was like 12 on there. And I'd regularly check those to see who

was doing what with their green 73. And my friend Terry and his Bronco barn restoring

a 66 roadster, probably one of the first people to restore a 66 roadster. And it certainly

felt small. Yeah, definitely. And now, especially since I'm still so focused on the drop stuff,

my own little, the straw thing feels big now. So it feels bigger than what we started

with in 1995 or six with that email list that we had. What was it even called? What

was the email that's called? It was you guys run it? Or did you know some dude that ran

it? I was one of the five. I had no tech experience whatsoever. And I still don't when it comes

to running stuff like this. But it was called the EBML, the early Bronco mailing list and

we started it. There were five of us that started it in February of 1995. We were on a larger

off road list. And the Bronco gigs were having side conversations. And somebody said, let's

start a Bronco mailing list. And so we split off and started this Bronco mailing list. And

then there were, I think there were two or three mailing lists at one time. And then those

kind of collapsed. And we went to forums, classic Broncos.com is a forum that everyone went

to. A lot of people store on there. And then obviously like everyone else, you made the

transition to Facebook and Instagram and all the socials. But yeah, I love picking at

that and hearing about that. I mean, seeing the transition of cars from being a something

listed in paper classified to move in everything online and how it has connected people or sort

of develop the audience and enthusiasm around cars is something that I think is super interesting.

So anyway, thanks for sharing a little bit about the olden days. So you guys get linked

up. You guys appreciate the perspective one another have for Broncos and Strop and early

times and racing and different sorts of things. You guys start doing that sort of thing together.

Tell us a little bit about how the journey has gone since then. I presume in the early days

you guys were owning sort of standard Broncos and that has evolved into the kind of more wild

stuff that you guys own now. Being in race trucks and trucks with early history and that

sort of stuff, I presume you didn't just come out of the gate, own in Baja winners and

that sort of stuff in the day, you probably started with six-cylinder trucks or a standard

daily type trucks like most of us started with. Tell us about the beginnings versus where

it's come to.

Yeah, I guess I'll chime in here about my first Bronco purchase. I was in college and I

really wanted a Baja Bronco. I'd already talked a friend into buying a Baja Bronco. Sorry

I was building that skill. And then once he got it, I got super jealous and I answered

an ad in Heming's Motor news for a Baja Bronco. I was so excited to find another one.

I'd only found about four. And I flew to Texas, sight unseen, bought the 73 Baja Bronco,

my first Bronco at half a year's. What year's this?

This was 1995, 96. Okay, early 96. January or February. And I drove it back from Texas

on these bald tires and that was my first one. It was a true Baja Bronco with this drop

paperwork in the glove box and everything. I know the truck now it's restored and it's

in a good home, but that was a neat truck to start with. And then I've pretty much always

had straps, but that's just because I'm super fixated on them. And back to like how Todd

was saying, if you like early Broncos and you like to learn the history and everything,

that's how we both ended up there. But for me, like I was into Shelby's as a little kid.

And I think being involved with the Shelby American Automobile Club and how they picked

apart things and looked at the race vehicles and they were serious, enthusiast on that level,

that's, I applied what I had learned through being involved in that club and all their

newsletters and things that the guys, the big dogs from SAC back in the 80s and 90s would write

about. And so that's how I did my research and got so excited about the early racing Broncos.

And I think, Todd, you could probably tell the story of the red Bronco that we own together,

because that's when we both, we had been on that mailing list for maybe two or three years.

And then you told me about that one race truck. Yeah, Randy, you had asked about my ownership.

I've been a fairly monogamous Bronco owner. I just literally have the same Bronco that my dead

bought back in 1981. And I'm creeping up on 400,000 miles on it now. So it gets driven a lot.

Wow. I always knew about the straps, but I didn't have the, the strong infatuation in a

love form that Andrew did. I mean, I liked him. I thought they were cool, but he was the man

when it came to the Baja Broncos. And there was a guy in my Bronco club who had an old stop racer.

And I knew what it was, but I didn't really pay that much attention to it. And he was crusty and

hard to deal with. But at some point, Andrew and I decided that would be cool to have this old

stop racer. And so he drifted out of the club, but I kept in contact with him. He's one of those

kind of guys that you just everyone has done this probably where you don't really like the person,

but you keep contact with him just in hopes someday they're going to sell it and they'll think of you.

And that's what I did. I dropped by this guy's work and talked to him even if it was painful.

And I would send him emails every so often. And then in 2008, one night, I got an email from this guy.

And it's the heading on the message. I knew he was going to sell it. And I opened it up and he says,

you know anyone that wants to buy this shop racing Bronco? And he had listed the price and it was

within a thousand dollars of what Andrew and I had previously agreed that we would pay for this

truck. And it was like, this is divine. So I immediately emailed him bank said, we'll buy it.

And so that's what started our ownership together and our entree into the racing rigs seen.

So I had to buy it in my time. That one, from the time I first found it until the time we were

able to buy it was 15 years. So we had to really be patient to to get that truck. Give us

something to chew on here. All I heard was a red stop racing truck. Like, what is this thing here?

What was it then or what is it now? Well, it's made quite a transformation. The way he had it,

it was configured into a basically a glamest dude runner. It had a high horse power engine,

paddle tires. It was painted red, a predator carburetor at one time. If you're

a racer, there's no what predator car. Yeah, I do. And the thing never ran right. That was the

thing. We'd always take it out and then he'd just work on it continuously at our events and it

would never run right. So we got it and worked on it and figured out the history on it. And what

we determined was that it was the actual overall winner of the 1969 Mexican 1000 or Baja 1000s.

We know it today. And that was the first and only up until maybe the last three years.

Four wheel drive vehicle to win. The Baja 1000 overall was driven by Rod Hall and Larry Miner.

And we did a lot of detective work to determine that going over old photos and looking at things.

And then we had it restored for racing. We raced it in 2012 in Nora. And then it lived a comfortable

life. It was in a movie. It was in a couple of books. It was in several magazine features.

And it now resides in a private collection in Colorado. A comfortable retirement.

But it's really quite a storied truck, even in the off-road racing world, not just the Bronco

world. And it looks like it did in 69 for its win, right? That's its current aesthetic.

Yeah, pretty much. Actually, I think we have the 71 or 72 Baja 1000s. It's one of those things.

These trucks, they had such a long life and that's so many different paint jobs and deliveries.

And you're like, well, what's the one that we really like the most? Whatever. It's a color scheme

or whatever. And so we had to put a pin in the timeline and say, okay, we're going to paint

it like this to look like this. And so that's what we did. Yeah. Even though it wasn't

its most famous race, we've got it with the 72 Baja 1000 livery. I'll say Andrew is an incredible

automotive archaeologist with this stuff. He can sand down paint on cars like guys analyzing

tree rings. And it took determined how trees are. I mean, it's just there were what four or five

layers of paint on the fiberglass Andrew. It was incredible. Yeah, they basically you could tell

the timeline of the race. And that's also part of what some of the trucks were white in orange.

Other trucks were blue in orange. The blue changed a couple of times. And we were able to trace

that all the way back on one of the door inserts all the way back to 69 race. Super cool.

Okay, so that one is a milestone. That may be the is that the best Bronco out there or

are there others? Are you guys big olie believers or what's the mountaintop for Broncos? I think

maybe it's that truck that you guys restored and raced. I would say maybe this is just my opinion.

And I think Andrew chime in too. My opinion is big olie is the mountaintop. But most people can't

get to the mountaintop. And so for a couple of guys like Andrew and I to have that truck with 69

winner. I think that's probably pretty darn close to the peak for what we could have. And

Andrew, you've got some other ones. So maybe you've had some other feelings on that. Yeah, and I

think with what Strop did with the racing Broncos, I mean, he started with four trucks that were

pretty close to stock that were given to him by Ford. And they evolved so much over the years.

And even when you take the 69 winner that we had and the level that it was prepped to,

but then you compare it to what Parnelli was racing in the same race was a very similar truck,

although it was sectioned a couple inches and shortened about four inches and two inch shorter

wheelbase. They were already getting into that. I want to build big olie mindset or Parnelli was.

He wanted something lighter each time. And then by 70, they had the pony, the two wheel drive truck.

I mean, you can put them all next to each other and and each one of these things that still

exists, which is about seven or eight. I think if you include big olie, and there's probably

a couple more out there that are in the spotlight. But if you put them all next to each other,

they each have unique features and things that make them special. So it's really hard for me to say

big olie's the top of the mountain. And the 69 winner is something that the average joke can

get their hands on it. I mean, we got our hands on it for a while. But I guess it's just hard

because each truck seems to have its own idea of what was going to get the race one. And it's unique

to that truck. So that's what's interesting to me at least. I think it's interesting to do a whole

lot of folks. So I think yeah, I've been lucky to visit your shop up there in Marin County and

see some of the crazy trucks that you have in there. I'm sure that's only just scratching the surface

of the ones you've seen and maybe even restored. But yeah, seeing the ones with the race modifications

and you walking me through top to bottom on those trucks was fascinating for me and there's

so much to learn there and talk to us about Nora and how it's opened the door in terms of people's

enthusiasm for these types of trucks. I think first of all, there's that event. But second of all,

there's these vintage trucks. Like are they all going into museums or are these going to be out

and used the way that you guys were using them in what you were saying in 2012, 13, 14 sort of

time frame. Do you think more of the special stuff is being brought out and used or more of the

special stuff now is being stashed away? I feel like a lot of it's being stashed away a little bit.

There's a couple people in Nora that are still racing really important vehicles. My friend Mac

runs the Dodge pickup truck that Rod Hall drove the most and he's pretty adamant about

having a vintage vehicle to drive and I commend him for keeping on using that as long as he has.

We got to a point where we had the opportunity to run another Strop Bronco, but it wasn't a

Strop racer. So we ended up shifting gears and getting out of the 69 winner and racing something

that Baja Broncos unlimited built for a client and just had a really good team together like that.

So that was centered around having a car and a team that owned the car.

But yeah, I think I have seen less original race vehicles out at Nora in the last four or five years,

but I'd like to see, I'd like to see people run them, but then there's also that thing is that

they're a piece of history. So better be careful. I mean, we took damage a couple times in Nora. It's

part of the game, but I'd like to see more people racing vintage stuff, but I also would love a

place where we could go to a museum and see it all there. And I feel like those days are heading

here soon. Yeah, I agree. I think maybe 10 years ago, we saw some more vintage rigs out there,

but yeah, Nora is changing and they're skewing a little away from the historical stuff now.

There's more side by side and some things like that. So probably fewer vintage vehicles out there,

but there's still a few. Tell people a little bit about how that's organized. I presume most people

listening don't know too much about Nora. You guys, how many times have you guys done it? Each of you?

I think Andrew, you've probably done it 11 times. I think I did it 10 times. So Nora is a rebirth of

Nora was the original sanctioning body for the Mexican 1000 brace, the Baja 500 and so on from

1967 until 1973. And then there was a gap of a year or two and then score took over and score

has run it ever since. So Nora was reborn back in 2010. They made a big deal about wanting to

bring vintage vehicles back and they run what they call a rally format. So instead of a

bombs away, score Baja 1000, we race until we finish 20 hours, 24 hours, whatever it takes you to

finish in one swat. You now go down the peninsula in a rally format and it takes five days now,

I think, over a course of about 12 or 1300 miles and there are transit stages that are pavement

because there's more and more pavement coming to Baja like there is everywhere, but then you go

out into the desert, do what are called special stages and there might be a 150 mile dirt loop

and you go then run that as fast as you can. And so you're still out running around in the dirt,

but you're dealing with the realities of how civilization has changed Baja. It's still an incredible

amount of fun. Yeah, it costs a lot of money, but it's far more affordable than trying to run

a score team. Guys like Andrew and I've been very blessed to be able to run this kind of a race

and I think it's the only way we could have ever raced in Baja is to do something like Nora because

scores for the big boys. Yeah, and a big shout out to Sue Kasinger,

from Kasinger Racing for holding our team together and getting us down there and making it possible

for us. And she knows every ice cream shop in Baja. And are you have you guys hung up the helmets

or do you guys have plans 10 and 11 years? Have you got plans of doing more racing in Baja?

Are you guys done? Well, I would say we're not done. We're I will say we're on maybe I don't know

what do we say Andrew? Maybe we're on a little hiatus until we get another truck done to go down

there. Yeah, many hiatus. We have one truck that we really want to bring down there again,

but it needs a ton of work. And we're chipping away at that, but we need a little bit more time

to get it done. And it's the the overall winner of the 70 Baja 500, uh,

partly Jones first win in Baja. Is that right, Tom? Yeah, first time pony bronco ever held a

Bronco together to win. And so we that's our new truck that we co-owned together and doesn't

really look anything like it did in 1970, but it'll be close before we come to the start line again

with it. So I love that. That's fighting the good fight as far as I'm concerned. You say I'm a

little sad, Andrew, when you say yeah, they're not bringing vintage trucks out anymore. You know,

these are all going to be in a Las Vegas museum. And we're going to remember the old mint four

hundred days or whatever. But man, one thing I do remember when there was a good amount of PR around

Nora's sort of rebirth or relaunch in 2010. I'm not as lucky as you guys that I've got to be out there

and get my hands dirty. But I've watched it from afar. And I just thought that was so great that

there was that seems like the primary venue for getting the old stuff back out, right? Because

those are the pictures. Even I know you guys love Broncos, but even the pickups that were run in

the motorcraft, delivery, rangers and all that stuff that was run. And I mean, bring that stuff out.

Those trucks have to be all hiding somewhere. And nobody's running those in modern score racing.

So I was super encouraged when Nora was redesigned and rebirth. And obviously it brought a bunch of

your cool Broncos out, but it's brought, yeah, Dodges and everything else too. Bring the Nissan's and

bring the Toyota factory trucks, all that sort of thing. So to hear that you're working on a Bronco

and going to bring it back out to Nora that kind of keeps my faith. Man, if Nora turns into all

Honda side by sides, I think I don't know. We all have to find some other event or some other

two. So anyway, encouraging. I'd love to follow along and see how it's going with the restoration of

that truck. The pony you guys are calling it. Is that right? That one's called the pony.

Yep, called the pony. And that was, I think, Strop or Parnelli called it that somebody named it.

They named several of the trucks, which is handy if you're not looking to the detail that we are,

if you're looking at pictures of the trucks, a lot of them had the name of the truck or its race record

on the windshield header panel just below the windscreens. And this one was called pony. And I

currently own one that was called Colt and Big Hoss. And it was nice that they named them each

one instead of just being cars, serial number four. It's kind of a theme with the naming there.

Yeah, for sure. For Jason Bronco, adjacent horse and Jason, right? For some type of horse and

you've got it. So you guys are working on that truck. That's a nice little segue into the audience.

We'll be able to see the trucks behind you, but you are in Baja Broncos Unlimited World HQ there.

I see the trucks behind you and you are actively restoring trucks. And you operate primarily

out of your own shop and are running that business. It's your primary focus as my understanding is

working and restoring and researching these sort of vehicles. Is that right? Tell people about the

Baja Broncos Unlimited journey. Yeah, absolutely. I started it as a side gig in 1998 and

started producing the decals and everything met with Willie Strop and got his blessing to do a lot

of what I do. And from there, it just really is Bill's kid or who's Willie? Yes, Willie Strop is

Bill's son. And sadly, he passed away last August, I think. And he became a friend of both

of ours and he was always someone that we could go to and show what we found or ask about what we

found. He was helpful many times with both the racer research and then some of the, like I said,

those other Strop Broncos that are, hey, why is this one yellow or why is this one have two hoops

on the roll bar instead of one? He was always there and helpful with us, but not highly involved in

early Broncos in the last 20 years, except for maybe the last five or six years he went to shows

and helped the awareness there. But yeah, so around 2008, I went full time doing body off

restorations and then I'd also do the buying and selling and also have had to help some people

authenticate trucks, appraise trucks, Baja Broncos. It's like you said earlier on they weren't out in

the spotlight, but there was a lot of us who recognized what they were and were very excited about

and sometimes I would have to write appraisals showing the history of Baja Broncos to either an

insurance company or a dealer or somebody who had one just so they would have something to go on

is like, okay, this thing is authenticated and it is valuable. So that's something that I also do

and then after finding that one racer that Todd and I had, I also just made it my mission to look

for these other racers and find them and find new homes for them. It's my main gig now and it doesn't

have a definition that fits into a box, but I do a lot of parts procurement and appraisals and

events and still do restorations. I've got a 73 Baja Bronco frame off that's coming to completion

and then I'm working on a lifeguard Bronco that Bilstra built two of for Long Beach City and they're

super cool. It's like a Baja Bronco with a surfboard on top and a gurney on top and all the

resuscitation stuff inside it. Sitting on 15 by 10s, Gates Commandos. It's a cool thing.

Oh man, you sent me some pictures of that track and I actually love to talk about that. I could

tell you're proud of that one. How the heck are you going to get Gates Commandos on that thing?

Are there any of those around anymore that aren't totally sun rotten and gone or can you actually find

authentic tires for that thing somehow? I can't find them. Maybe if we get together with some other

people in the hobby, we can have some made, but I do have a few NOS here and then I've got some

some links on baked ones with liners on the inside and they look good enough for me. I'm going to

put them on there if we need to. You've got NOS Gates tires? I have two NOS and then I've got

like maybe three that have decent threads. I got enough for one truck and then I have another

I can't say goodbye to you, Seth. Oh man, you are a psycho in the best way.

You're hoarding Gates off road tires from the 70s, but you got to have it, right? I mean,

the picture that you sent me, I think it's next to a guard station tower or something, right?

And it's definitely got those tires on it. So that's authenticity. It's hard to pull that off.

That's a frustration of mine in the truck world for sure. I can't BFG just make the first

mud terrains and just leave it at that for the rest of time. Do we have to change it?

Right? I wouldn't buy those over and over again. I think many people would, but many is not

enough. I have a feeling to steer it. Yeah. Any time I see an older set of tires that could

come back, I try and grab them. I've got some Armstrong Norseman, some Armstrong True Tracks.

I just love those old tires and I mean, they can add a whole lot to a truck sitting at a show.

If you don't have 20, 25 tires on it, yeah, for sure. Anyway, cool. Thanks for telling us about

that and you have your website and that's how I first got to know you and I grew up in the same

area and had a couple of chance encounters knowing what kind of vehicles we were into. But also,

once you had the website, I started following about howbrongers.com. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think

you may have used to had a for sale tab on there, but there were never trucks really transacting on

there. I don't think or were there because my whole deal was like trolling the entire internet,

finding interesting stuff for sale. So I would have loved. I press refresh on your tab probably

a thousand times, hoping there was going to be a drop project for 19 grand and there never was.

But I think that may have been part of the website modeling the early days, but you're not really

a sales platform for those, I don't think. No, but you're right back in the day. I would put

trucks up there for sale. And I think right now there's four old ads up there. But yes,

I would even create like if somebody, I remember one time a guy contacted me from like

Los Alamos, and he's like, hey, I need to sell this Baja Bronco. So I like made him a page for it

with his number on it, the description of what I could see. This must have been like 1999 or 2000.

And I got bought it and actually the truck's been on, bring a trailer since then. The belongs to

guy named Sean Lindsay. But yeah, I tried to do my best to get those trucks out there. But I think

what would happen is I would remove the link from the for sale thing as soon as it was gone.

And they wouldn't last long. Even I mean, if you're looking for a Baja Bronco, you're pretty serious

and you're going to look where they are. And I mean, I bought the first one that I could find.

So make sense. I know I just remember trolling your website. Todd, if you had had a website

for me to search and seek and reload every single day, I definitely would have done that too.

So tell me a little bit about what you're looking forward to, Todd. It sounds like you may be restoring

this race truck that's coming up in the next couple of years or clicking over to 400,000 miles on

Dad's old truck. That sounds like a meaningful milestone. Tell me what's keeping you going and

excited about Broncos these days. Well, several different things. Yeah, one, I'm just the older I get

the less I like to work on my truck. But there's always projects on that to keep going. And so I'm

constantly either maintaining it or updating it. And I just, I do a lot of backcountry exploration and

it go all over Arizona. I sometimes get up into Nevada and Colorado with that with friends. So always

enjoy that. In addition to the book, I do some other writing from time to time. I've written a

few articles for bring a trailer on various topics. Ben's always trying to see if I'll write this

or write that sometimes I buy and sometimes I don't. And I also write for a little magazine called

Bronco Driver. I've done that for about 24, 25 years. So I write articles for them. I write a

few articles for websites here and there. Just interesting things that come up. The book gave me

a few opportunities for things I was able to help forward with their website when the Bronco came

out and help them with some history of that. And there's other opportunities I'm out there between

writing and driving my Broncos. That's what I look forward to. And of course, getting the race

truck going in that next few years as well. Because once you get that Baja, it's got to be scratched.

And it's just hard to not be down there every year, driving through the silt and the dirt down

there. That's some good stuff to be looking forward to. And you've brought one of your Broncos.

I'm not sure if it's the one we're talking about out to a couple BAT events. You were out last

year in the Arizona 9-11-R event we did. You brought a cool Bronco to that. Was that the one we're

talking about? I've seen a photo of it. I wasn't there but I've seen a photo of it. Yeah, that's the

one I brought it to that. And I think another time this was way back in the early days I met you at

you had a little BAT easy up at Copper State before the Copper State went there.

2001 year that was really that met you and had my Bronco there that year. I came to the BAT event

this past Saturday at Auto but had some friends in town so bringing the Bronco out wasn't really

in the cards but if you guys are in Phoenix, I'm usually at one of your events to meet and greet

people and look at all the cool cars. I love that. I appreciate that. Now there was 4,000 people

or something there on Saturday. It was fun and I always appreciate that you're a sportor and you're

out there and just having Broncos out there invisible I think is really cool as they got a reputation

for being expensive I would say in COVID when the SUV kind of craze went nuts and I would say Broncos

are at the top of that, right? I mean cruisers got expensive, scouts got everything kind of went nuts

but Broncos really just rocketed and it was like oh man is this the last time any of us are going to

afford any Bronco of any flavor not just the straw ones but any of them, right? And I think they

little down particularly then just normal run of the mill Broncos are back down to a somewhat

attainable level which I actually think is encouraging because that means more of them will be driving

around instead of again hidden away and collections and that sort of thing but have you guys seen that

or what do you guys think I want to ask you two more things here as we maybe close. Obviously the

sort of cycle of the market post COVID will talk about that but then also obviously what Ford did

with the relaunch of the modern Bronco and what that has done for the vintage ones positive or negative

I'd love to hear you guys input on that but given the things have milled out a little bit here post

COVID do you feel like the Bronco enthusiasts like I want to see young people driving Broncos around

I don't know if that's a pipe dream now given some of the price points but it's cool to see people in

their 20s drive in old cars and appreciating them as opposed to just a bunch of old guys who wanted

them back in the day and it was tough for that in COVID when they all became 80 and a hundred

thousand dollars to drive it just run of the mill Bronco I mean I got I think it got crazy was my

point of view what did you guys think about how that was and how did that evolve this sort of user base.

Well it's definitely shifted the enthusiast base away from the long time enthusiasts that

Andrew and I described earlier for sure I do a lot of people that just wanted a cool truck to

drive around and be seen in I think I live in Phoenix so there's tons of Broncos around and a lot

of them do they go to the gym or they go to the ice cream shop or that kind of thing so you'll see

a lot more of those although like you said I have seen the market simmer down a little bit just an

example I have a co-worker here at work he's not a young guy I'd say in his 40s he's been after me

for an early Bronco for probably four or five years and they just kept going up and up and he didn't

adjust his calibrations on what he wanted to pay so I said Mike you're never going to find one

it's either just it's just bonkers and so literally finally about three or four months ago I found

one forum that a friend was selling here at town and they made the deal and he now has a Bronco

after sitting here dreaming of one for five or six years so I think there are people out there now

that are finally maybe able to get something other than just a rusty chassis for 30,000 he's got

something that's running and driving and I see that I saw that I went to Barrett Jackson for several

days this past weekend and there was one truck there that was you know it was pretty decent

make a nice driver and it sold for 30k you know that's more within reach of what people can

afford I think the rest don't mod types with the coyotes and the 10 speeds are still going to be

huge dollars but I saw those softening too you know the last two or three years a lot of those

trucks were between 200,000 400,000 a lot of them at the show this year of the same build caliber were

more 100 to 160 or 170 now that's still crazy money for most of us but it does show that the top

line on even those top trucks is coming down in terms of price so I hope that bring a trailer

for people back into them I have a nephew he's a senior in college now he got a Bronco from Andrew

running and driving I don't know probably about five years ago six years ago maybe right before

COVID went came and prices went crazy and he's a rare 20 or 21 year old kid driving his own early

Bronco around now he's done a lot of work to it had some health from his parents and stuff but

you don't see a lot of 21 year old kids working on early Broncos anymore so it's encouraging to see

people like him that are able to do that yeah it's I think with the the new Bronco coming out

it brought more awareness to Broncos just in general and I saw two things of that I saw young people

getting excited about Broncos of any year but also just an uptick in the early Bronco love

and then the other thing I saw come from that that I like is that nobody's called it a Jeep anytime

I've been driving it out like people know what Broncos are now kids riding by on a bike nice Bronco

and like they know it it's not like oh cool Jeep where'd you get that and there's nothing wrong

with Jeeps it's just I like to because to me they don't look very similar but I guess to some people

they do but the recognition's been important and then speaking to the market side of things on the

other level of like I'll go down to like the project level to get in tune with like bring a trailer

you need to bring a trailer to buy some of these Broncos that are offered for sale because they don't

run but I'm still seeing it very difficult to find something in the 18 to 20 range that yeah

it needs floors and needs everything that's still a hard truck to find honestly every time I see one

for 18 or 20 I said oh maybe I should go look at that and let's just see how bad it is especially

if it's running because even the chassis you see somebody selling a chassis in a title and it's

10 grand still so the lower end of it I still I don't see the lower end trucks dropping much yet

that's helpful it's helpful inside it's interesting to watch right I mean the covid phenomenon was

a weird one and at the modern Bronco change was super meaningful for Ford and for all you guys

as enthusiasts and you see them all over the place and the Bronco names all over the place and a

bunch of marketing and I think it's great I think it's all positive and I think it is

increased awareness on early trucks I've known a number of people who weren't destined for an

early truck and steered them towards getting a modern Bronco which was the right call 100% and that's

what they got and they're very happy and they would have been miserably unhappy in a video

ago just because they thought it was the fantasy doesn't mean it would have played out so

positively in real life but then there are some folks that I've had a very similar story taught a

couple people that kind of waited out the huge bubble and then they're like hey wait these are

starting to get a little more reasonable so a couple guys that have grabbed them on BET in the last

six months and it's cool to see them in them they just had to wait a little while longer so

anyhow it'll continue to evolve and you guys are right at the heart of it and overall I just

wanted to express that we definitely appreciate that you guys are involved in BET in the BET community

and share your insights I see you guys commenting on Bronco listings that we have on BET and the more

information that can be out there and can be shared I always think the better so I'm a big fan of

folks that were on email mailing lists back in the 90s trying to share stuff with folks and now

that's playing out with BET as a component of that so I want to say thanks to both of you.

Absolutely for the platform it's addicting and I'll confess I spend way too much time on there

I can have a routine but yeah I yeah I've made some friends I haven't met the people in person

yet but there's a few people on there that I consider friends now and I know nothing more

than their username I try and be on there more as I can especially when the drop trucks and other

cool Broncos if I've got some time it's fun to get on there see what people are saying add something

if I can it's great fantastic well I appreciate that from both you guys we'd love to see more

drop trucks on there too Andrew I know you're feeding those into their proper homes and if you auction

them on BET who knows where they go they could go overseas or who knows what so that's a little

terrifying but in general we'd love to see a few more out there invisible so people can learn about

them I love that they're not really a secret any longer and and that story is getting broader and

broader and both of you guys are a meaningful driver of that and helpful for that and your racing

stories are inspiring so I hope you don't roll your eyes when a guy like me is asking you all about

your racing stories I love hearing all that so hopefully I'll be able to see that firsthand

before long but excited to chat with both of you thanks so much for spending some time with us

today and any parting shots from either you thank you so much for having us it's been fun chatting

with you guys I feel like sometimes I don't chat enough about this stuff and thanks again for that

yeah just thank you for the opportunity to be on I was very honored when Ben sent a note and

said hey would you guys be on I was like wow okay because I I love listening to the podcast and

yeah it's just an honor to be on thank you oh you guys are kind to say that yeah yeah we like

given people a little more context about who these people are that are commenting on vehicles so it's

good to hear your actual voices so thanks for the time today and hope we can connect with you guys

again soon and for everybody out there listening thanks for listening to the BET podcasts and check

in for the next one

Baja Broncos with Todd Zuercher and Andrew Norton

About this episode

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