Behind the Numbers – How Product and Underwriting Power Hagerty’s Advantage
The Accelerator by Hagerty
Behind the Numbers – How Product and Underwriting Power Hagerty’s Advantage
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Concept
modern classics
Modern classics are cars that are older but still popular and valuable today. They usually come from the late 1990s to early 2000s and have features that make them easier to drive and enjoy.
Term
collectible vehicles
Collectible vehicles are cars that people really want to own because they are rare or special. These cars can become more valuable as time goes on, so many people buy them as investments.
Term
pre-80s classic vehicle
Pre-80s classic vehicles are cars made before the 1980s that people love to collect. They are appreciated for their unique styles and the way they drive compared to modern cars.
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
The 1973 Chevrolet Corvette is a classic sports car known for its sleek design and powerful engine. It's often seen as a symbol of American muscle cars and is popular among collectors.
Concept
Hagerty valuation tool
The Hagerty valuation tool helps people figure out how much their classic cars are worth. It uses information from car sales to give a good estimate of a car's value.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that's been around for a long time. It's known for being fast and having a unique shape that many people recognize.
Concept
motorsports
Motorsports are competitions where people race cars or other vehicles. It can be on tracks or in different types of races, and it often needs special cars and safety gear.
Term
safety equipment
Safety equipment is the gear that keeps drivers safe when they're racing or driving fast. It includes things like helmets and special suits that protect you in case of an accident.
Car
Trans Am
The Trans Am is a type of car made by Pontiac that is known for being fast and sporty. It's part of a family of cars called the Firebird, and it became famous for its cool looks and powerful engines.
Term
total loss
A total loss means that the damage to the car is so bad that it would cost more to fix it than the car is worth. Insurance companies often decide this when they look at the damage and the car's value.
Term
daily driver
A daily driver is the car you use every day to go to work or run errands. It's usually a practical choice that you can count on.
Concept
restoration
Restoration means fixing up an old car to make it look and work like it did when it was new. This can include painting, repairing parts, and making sure everything runs well.
Car
M47 Patton tank
The M47 Patton is a type of military tank that was used by the U.S. Army. It was built to fight in wars and is known for its powerful gun and armor.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Unimog
The Mercedes-Benz Unimog is a special type of vehicle that can go off-road and is often used by the military or for tough jobs. It has six wheels, which helps it handle rough terrain better than regular cars.
Term
tuner
A tuner car is a car that has been changed or upgraded to make it faster or look cooler. People often modify their cars to improve how they drive or how they look.
Term
pro street
Pro street cars are built to be fast on the street and in races. They usually have big engines and special parts to help them go really fast.
Term
tub cage
A tub cage is a special frame inside a car that makes it stronger and safer, especially for racing. It helps the car handle better and allows for bigger tires.
Brand
Toyota
Toyota is a car company from Japan that makes many types of vehicles, including cars and trucks. They are known for making cars that last a long time and are easy to drive.
Car
Toyota Pickup
The Toyota Pickup is a type of truck made by Toyota that has been around for many years. It's known for being tough and useful for carrying things or doing work.
Car
Nissan 300Zx
The Nissan 300 ZX is a cool sports car made by Nissan that was popular in the 1990s. It’s known for being fast and stylish, and many people love it for its performance and unique design. If you see one, it’s a classic car that represents a fun era in automotive history.
Term
beater
A 'beater' is a car that isn't very nice or valuable. People often use it for everyday driving without worrying about how it looks.
Term
garage queen
A 'garage queen' is a car that is very well taken care of and usually just sits in the garage instead of being driven often.
LIVE
Welcome to The Accelerator, a podcast for insurance agents and brokers who know there's more to
life than bundling home and auto.
Yeah, we're talking collector cars, better sales strategies, and ideas to grow your business
without boring you to death.
This isn't just another industry podcast.
It's the one you're actually going to want to listen to.
I'm really excited because joining us today is Sabrina Wheaton.
She's Hagerty's senior director of underwriting and operations in the member service center.
What a title that business card must be long, but honestly prior to joining Hagerty, Sabrina,
she had such great experience that she brought in the luxury hospitality from hosting major
events like the PGA Tour and the Aspen Ideas Festival.
When we were locating to Traverse City, she spent a year getting her feet wet in insurance
with a local state farm agent.
There she learned firsthand the relational side of the business and how families place
trust in their agents.
That experience sparked her interest in pursuing a career in insurance and ultimately
led her to Hagerty.
Just like almost everyone in the insurance space, she did not go to school or grew
up dreaming of being an insurance, but what Sabrina does today is she oversees
the US and Canada's underwriting teams as well as the servicing team dedicated to start
strategic partnerships.
Really, Sabrina is the secret sauce that makes everything efficient, consistent, and aligned
with our commitment to exceptional service.
Wow.
Thank you, Sabrina.
I'm not going to complain about a heavy workload anymore.
Also on the podcast today, we're very excited to welcome Kenin Shoynier, Hagerty's
director of US auto product management.
Ken works really closely with the insurance distribution team to help achieve partner growth
and profitability targets.
He's been with Hagerty for 17 years.
The man knows his stuff, first starting as an intern with the agency team and has
since held several analysts and product management roles.
Together, Kenin and Sabrina help ensure the stability of our product, support agents
and partners across North America, and drive innovation that helps us and you
stay ahead.
From product filings to endorsements, we've got a lot to unpack in this episode.
So let's roll.
All right, Kenin, let's start with the foundation, product filings.
Hagerty over the years has built a reputation for consistency and precision in this area.
And I'm sure many thanks to you for that.
Can you just walk us through our filing strategy and how our expertise in this
specialty space helps support agencies and clients?
Yeah, yeah, happy to.
For us, it comes out into a lot of monitoring of obviously past results and
trends. And what we try to do is make sure that our product fit is appropriate for
the market that we're in, right?
So state specific, vehicle segment specific, we try to do is we try to
make regular updates to our program in those key markets, which allows us to
kind of tweak our product structure, our rating structure, rather than big,
large adjustments.
And we feel like that provides a little bit of stability in kind of what our
product is in the state that allows, I think, for our agents, especially those
who maybe aren't quoting with us regularly, they see that consistency in our
product and pricing that we're trying to put out there.
And I think the other thing that we're always trying to do, especially on
our product side, looking to introduce, adjust the coverages to fit the
needs of our members, right?
And seeing where that enthusiasm is going and making sure that our
coverages, our product offerings are there to fit.
And I think a great example of that.
I know love to talk a little bit more about it is our growing motorsports
advantage endorsements, right?
Seeing that as a growing segment in the enthusiast space, making sure
that we've got the appropriate product there for those members.
Ken, you mentioned stability and being really mindful of our product
and our pricing by market by segment.
And I know like for me as a consumer, I like the idea of stability
and insurance for like what I'm going to pay.
I'm just curious from the agent perspective, how does stability play
a role in how they think about carriers, you know, how they think
about who to work with and recommend coverages and carriers to their clients?
Sure. Yeah.
I mean, at the end of the day, you know, what we're trying to achieve
is an appropriate price for the risk.
And by doing that, what it helps is build a healthy portfolio.
And that's not only for us, but for our agents, right?
I mean, I think what we want to make sure is that clients
that they're coming to us with, right?
We're waiting that appropriately.
We're helping that agent build a portfolio that is going to be
going to be a foundation for their agency, right?
And a strong cohort that they can, again, grow with, right?
They can offer other products to.
But I think it starts with making sure that we've got a stable product
pricing that's fit to match the risk, which I, you know,
I think helps create a long tenure client, right?
And member for us, as well as, again, a strong foundation
for the agent to, again, build their business with.
Just to like hover on this a little bit longer, but I'm curious,
like you talk about pricing, can you talk about pricing for different
states, but then also different vehicle segments?
And I'm wondering if, like the way that we view vehicles
and like the collector specialty space is going to be different
than maybe like a standard auto carrier.
And if you could talk a little bit about what you mean by segments
of vehicles and how that might impact rating.
Sure. Obviously, we have a wealth of knowledge
when it comes to classic antique enthusiast autos.
But we also recognize that those trends are shifting, right?
You're seeing more modern classics, right?
We're seeing more 2000s and newer vehicles come in.
These are vehicles that are gaining in popularity, gaining in value.
And ultimately, we need to make sure that our product is keeping up with that,
right? Because ultimately, the usage becomes a little bit different.
You're starting to see collectible vehicles come through
that are just have more modern conveniences, right?
It's a little bit easier to go on a longer trip to use them more regularly.
I know we've all had an opportunity at working at Hagerty to get behind the wheel
of what we'll call a pre-80s classic vehicle.
They are fun to drive.
They can sometimes be a very uncomfortable ride after a couple hours, right?
Newer vehicles afford, I think, a little bit more of that, right?
And so we want to make sure that how we're thinking about these vehicles,
how we're thinking about the potential use cases of these vehicles
are reflected in our product structure.
So again, it's so that we can deliver what we feel is that appropriate price
for the risk and allow, again, for that segment to start to make up
a larger percentage of the book, right?
For an agency, for a company, but doing it in a way that it is still a
it is a healthy portfolio and can and stay in the test of time, right?
I mean, I think that's the biggest thing.
We want these clients, these members to be a part of our company,
a part of our agent's business for as long as possible,
doing that, I think having that risk rated appropriately helps in accomplishing that goal.
Yeah, Ken, and I think you're right.
I think, you know, Hagerty is kind of the fun, sexy side of insurance,
but we need stability in our pricing and our modeling.
And so kind of being boring in this side of the business is a good thing,
I think, especially when you read about in the news,
all the big companies taking 40, 50 percent rate increases,
something we try to avoid, right?
So can we agree more?
Yeah, if we're doing our job well, people don't notice, right?
I mean, I think that's the big part, at least this side of the insurance base, right?
That's where we talk about tweaks.
We want to just continue to see how the landscape is shifting
and try to stay ahead of it as much as we can.
I think the industry as a whole is coming out of one of the more disruptive periods
in terms of pricing and just especially in the auto side,
how people were utilizing their vehicles, right?
When you think about 2020, 2021 to today,
usage has changed so much, right?
And, you know, how people are before commuting to work every day.
Now, a lot of those people are staying home.
That has a tremendous impact on obviously the frequency of not only usage
but claims and ultimately what that does to the pricing of auto insurance.
You know, we weren't immune to that entirely.
You know, our structure is a little bit different, right?
The types of vehicles that we're looking to ensure are not daily drivers,
but it doesn't mean that people aren't aren't getting out of the house
at a different rate than they were pre-2020.
Yeah, I totally agree.
I mean, speaking of shifting habits and behaviors,
you know, Sabrina, over to you, insurance has become a 24-7 business.
And I think one of the underrated kind of things about our call center,
which you interact with in a daily basis, is the role it can play
in helping support our agencies with after hours and weekends.
Because now, like on Saturday mornings, I'm getting calls from people buying cars
and they're wondering if the agencies are your close.
Like, what do they do?
Can you help us talk through a little bit how our call center plays a role
in helping the agent when the agent's closed after hours, you know,
on the weekends and things like that?
Yeah, definitely, Brian.
Isn't that so true?
And I remember when I worked in a local agent's office before coming to
Haggerty, we would always joke that afternoons after four o'clock,
especially Thursday Fridays, would be like Madhouse, rush hour,
people walking in, last-minute payments,
everybody was trying to get something done as their workday wrapped up.
Hours kind of begun in when I came to Haggerty, I felt like that was
even more obvious when thinking about the electric car world.
Like you said, people are buying and selling cars on the weekends.
Things are happening all the time and they're typically happening, right?
When we, you know, after hours for most.
So what we want to make sure that we do in the service center
is that we're there when you need us.
And we do this a few ways.
Yes, the service center plays a big role.
But also when thinking about our policy, we've built a lot of flexibility,
especially when adding a vehicle to your policy.
We automatically extend coverage for up to 50,000 on a newly purchased
stack collector for 30 days.
So as long as all of your collectors are with us, if you're adding a vehicle
after hours, you have that piece of line baked into our policy.
And I think, you know, that makes a big difference on the service side.
There's a couple of ways that we look at making sure that we're there
when you need us.
The first is our digital platforms and our teams in the service center
use this as well, but we have a technology call straight through processing
that hopefully our agents listening have interacted with.
But what we look to do there, both from a new business standpoint,
but also from an endorsement standpoint is that if you're going in
and looking to add a vehicle, you have a pretty good chance
of having it go all the way through without having to interact with a human.
We have a really high throughput with our straight through processing
over 60 percent of things that come through automatically get issued.
And we want that number to keep going higher
because we know that it needs to be easy and it's to feel frictionless,
especially for a busy agent.
So that is one way.
And then if you do happen to call us, we love talking to you.
If you call us, our team members in the service center,
our automotive enthusiast advisors are also utilizing that same
straight through processing technology and you can get the same outcome.
Now, not everything currently qualifies for straight through processing.
And that's when kind of our other side of the service center
come in comes in our underwriting team.
We have a highly specialized underwriting team and house
who handles what I like to call some of the fun stuff.
You have your really specialized vehicles, maybe things that we're
in totally cookie cutter and Viennese go through our straight through
processing and they work on a 24 hour turnaround.
So we are really trying to make sure that we are expediting things
that you are not having to wait.
And that really is a Monday through Sunday approach.
Our contact center is open eight to eight.
And also, like you mentioned, Bryant, on the weekends,
we're open eight 30 to four 30 on Saturdays, noon to four on Sundays,
which I think it's pretty rare when you think about a specialty insurance company.
So we really want to make sure that we're there when you need us
and if we are not there live, you have other resources
that can make sure that you know, you can get it done for your client.
Yeah. No, thanks, Sabrina, for walking through that.
I think I've got two additional questions for you.
And I always hear this and I don't believe it,
but I keep hearing it so many times that I have to believe it.
Like agents love calling in and listening to our whole music.
Like, how do we select our whole music?
Oh, that's a really good question.
Yes, they do. And we hear this all the time.
We never want you to be on hold for too long,
but we try to make it fun if you do have to a couple of ways.
Our team members have chosen some of these songs.
And if you call in, you can hear some of their stories, too.
They kind of mentioned I was listening to the skull while on the drive
on back roads.
And so we really try to involve our team members in the choice
of songs that we play for you guys.
I'm glad you enjoy them.
That's awesome. I love that.
And then I know there's so many stories,
some of the cool things for listeners that like Haggerty does.
And when we get together or quarterly,
we get to hear like videos and stories of our clients interacting.
And so Sabrina, do you have a story you can think of from the underwriting team
or the call center where, you know, we went above and beyond
and really helped out an agent?
Oh, my goodness, there are so, so many.
This is the best part of the job.
So this one was for a few years back, one of my top five.
But I call it the wedding day hero story.
So here's what happened.
We had a client who reached out to an agent
just a few days before the wedding.
His daughter was getting married
and he had been restoring the 73 Corvette forever for years.
But his dream was that this would be kind of the getaway car.
The bride and groom, his daughter will leave the church
and go to the ceremony, but he just wasn't quite sure
that the vehicle was going to be done in time for this.
So literally the week of the wedding,
this client called their agent and said, the car is done.
Can I get this on the road?
So I can surprise my daughter on the wedding day
as kind of the car that they leave the church with.
And I mean, timing was incredibly tight,
but this is where we shine.
She knows this, but the agent called our underwriting team,
our call center and got it over to an underwriter
who jumped in right away.
They expedited everything.
Our underwriter worked one-on-one with his agent
to make sure that things were done in time.
No delay when there's a wedding happening
and it really all came together for the wedding day.
It sounded amazing.
We kind of got the story after the fact,
but what I love the most about the story is,
yes, we made it happen.
Weeks later, the agent got a thank-you note from the family.
And the agent became the hero of that story.
And for us, that's what it is all about.
That's the heart of what we do
when we think about servicing our agents.
We really see ourselves as a co-pilot.
We're here in the background making things happen,
but we want the agent to shine.
We want to make sure that you show up for your client,
that you're getting it done,
and we were just the person in the back
helping you make it happen
into here that the family thanked the agent
for saving the day.
This was like the highlight of their day.
That's when we know we did our job right.
I love that.
What a great story.
And I love that you keep the sentiment
of making the agent the hero.
I know that is an ethos
that we hold very near and dear to our hearts here
at Hagerty and something that we...
I've felt and seen expressed
from all corners of the business,
and it's just so great to hear it from you
and what a wonderful story to share
that really showcases that commitment.
So, Brita, if we can stay with you
and you mentioned underwriting
and you mentioned partnering with agents.
And I know that in a lot of instances
in the insurance space,
underwriting can sometimes just feel really transactional,
but our team and our approach,
and especially with the stories
that you've recently shared,
we approach it a little bit differently.
So, could you kind of explain
how you and our underwriting team
partner with agents,
especially around valuation support,
which I know can be a little bit tricky
and sometimes a sticking point?
Yeah, definitely, John.
If you would have asked me before coming to Hagerty,
if I ever dreamt of being an insurance underwriter,
I think I would have looked at you
like you were a little crazy.
You might be right.
I mean, insurance can be really transactional.
I do think that we do it a little different at Hagerty.
And we still want to make sure
that we're making some decisions and at the core,
the responsibility of an underwriter
is to review the applications,
make sure that everything looks good,
approve, deny or adjust the terms.
That is, we want to make sure
that we're assessing risk properly
so we can stay profitable.
So when you describe it like that,
it can feel black and white.
At Hagerty, we really, we do that
and we also want to make sure
that we're good consultants.
Valuation is a huge component
of our underwriting
and how we look about making good decisions
that are good for Hagerty,
good for the agent and the client.
Ultimately guaranteed value
is one of the biggest things at Hagerty
that makes a Hagerty policy unique.
Our underwriters take a lot of pride
in looking at valuations
and making sure that before we sign off on that risk
that we're protecting the investment,
we know there's emotional,
financial investment in these cars.
And the truth is sometimes clients
don't even know what they have.
This is where our team can really be of support
and serve as consultants to our agents.
We use the Hagerty valuation tool
in-house every single day
in our underwriting process.
We really rely on this.
We know that the data
in that valuation tool is so rich.
There are over 40,000 collector cars,
SUVs, motorcycles that are,
the data is rolled into that valuation tool
and we have a team of analysts
who like auctions, peer-to-peer sales.
And so when an underwriter pulls up a value,
we're really leaning on this tool
to help guide that outcome
and then our expertise in house too,
to make sure, especially with a modified vehicle,
some of those are not as cookie cutter
or straight on value.
And so our team really leans into their experience
working with these vehicles every single day
to guide the right value,
to partner with the agent.
And we hear really great feedback
from our agents on this approach.
We do a survey after every single interaction
that you have with the service center.
We send out a survey to our agents
and also if it's a direct client,
we do as well.
But for our agents, we're asking two things.
We're asking how was your interaction with John?
And then the second question is,
how easy was it to do business with Hagerty?
And what we're really after here
is when you call the contact center
or you chat with us
or we call you from underwriting,
we wanna make sure that you had a good experience
and that you got done what you needed to get done.
And then on the other side,
was it easy to do business with Hagerty overall?
We know that we're one piece of the experience,
at the end-to-end experience
that you had as an agent really matters.
We use that feedback to change our internal processes
and try to, again, make things as frictionless
as possible, especially when thinking about an agent
who is busy.
You have so much happening day-to-day in your office.
We're one product that you sell,
hopefully the funnest one.
But we know that there's a lot going on
and when you interact with us,
we want that to feel really seamless
and really proud that our scores through that survey
are consistently really high.
The interaction with a member service center team member,
we score out of a scale of one through five,
about 4.92.
And then on the east of doing business with Hagerty,
we're hovering about 4.78.
So really strong scores
and we do take that feedback to heart.
So if you get one of these surveys,
please stay good.
It really helps make it better for you.
Great. Thank you for sharing that, Sabrina.
And I can say from the agency visits I've done
and also I lead some agent surveys
throughout the year as well,
the feedback that we get from our agents
about working with our team,
whether it's our field sales folks
that they're meeting with in their offices
or it's our service center that they're calling into,
the underwriters that they're working with,
just consistently super high scores and feedback
on working with our team.
The ease of business,
just the joy that they get out of working with Hagerty.
So huge kudos to you and the team
and a big thank you as well.
That's awesome to hear, John
and our frontline team members get those reviews too.
So they see what you're saying about us
and it really fuels their day.
Makes them want to even do better on the next call.
And so it really is a big part of our culture
and the service center that we're making things
as easy as possible for you.
So Ken and over to you,
another kind of like thing I hear all the time
from agents is price differences, right?
And so they'll quote 45 year old with a portion on 11
and then his neighbor will call
and he'll quote the same car, same age,
say he's 48 or whatever.
And the price is like way more or way cheaper.
And I think a lot of the times
the culprit is insurance scoring
and insurance scoring very standard, right?
In the industry, but for kind of a niche space
that's kind of a little bit maybe newer.
Could you talk about the advantages
of insurance scoring while we do it
and how it can change some of those prices so drastically?
Sure, yeah.
And I think just to take a step back,
I think part of our pricing philosophy,
our structure, right?
Is to create as much segmentation
in pricing as we can, right?
So again, it makes it challenging
because no two risks are ever the same.
Even if on the surface it looks very similar.
We have a lot of things that go into
what ultimately drives the price
of our insurance policy.
And yeah, insurance score is one of those things.
And I know it's much more common
in the standard auto space,
but it is something that we utilize it for rating
in what it does, it helps us predict risk, right?
And ultimately, or what we call the likelihood
of there being an insurance claim.
And it has proven to be very predictive of risk.
I think the things to keep in mind
with insurance score, it's more than just credit, right?
There are other things that come into it
to generate your insurance score
or the insurance score that we obtain
when looking at this stuff.
And I think the other thing to keep in mind, right,
is it's state specific.
So we have different rules for each state.
We have rules in place to make sure
that we are applying them consistently.
We're complying with what we call
the Fair Credit Reporting Act, the FCRA,
as well as state specific rules, right?
So states will also have some rules
in terms of how insurance score can be utilized.
But we make sure that we are doing that consistently.
And again, it helps kind of adjust the rate of the quote,
depending on that score,
along with other factors that we have in place.
So I know that historically, right,
if you go back to kind of our rating structure
20 years ago, it was a lot simpler
to just look at your make model value
and come up with kind of what that quote price has come.
As we have evolved, we have brought on
a lot of different rating variables that help, again,
get us to that accurate price for the risk.
Insurance score is one of those that we've introduced.
Thanks, Ken, and you're right.
When I was doing our motorsports program,
the math was so easy, the rate was 50% with the value.
And it was like, all right, so a $10,000 car,
you could just instantly do the math
and tell them what the price is.
Now all of a sudden, you can't do that anymore.
Would it be a fair statement to say
that insurance scoring and the way our pricing
is structured is for risks that we feel
will have less likely of a loss,
we're priced the best we possibly can be
to get those risks.
And the risks we feel have a little bit more,
you know, ability to have a claim
or a little bit more risk
that we're gonna be a little bit higher on.
But overall, we're trying to reward the clients
that have the best risk profiles with the lowest price.
And then those people that have a little bit higher
risk profile, obviously, you'll have a higher price.
I mean, that sounds pretty simple when you say it,
but would you say that's basically our philosophy
on pricing?
Yeah, ultimately, what we're trying to do
is predict risk, right?
Or predict the likelihood of a claim.
And so the more that we can bring in to the fold,
I think the more we can evolve our product
to fit just the growing enthusiast hobby, right?
You mentioned it, motorsports, right?
Again, 20 years ago, that wasn't a segment
we were playing in, right?
You know, it was the true kind of classic antique
definition that was what our product was.
And we saw, and obviously the enthusiast base has grown
into newer vehicles, motorsports vehicles, right?
It's become more varied in terms of what the hobbyist
do you mean collectible?
And so we need to have a product
that can evolve with that.
And it requires us to bring in more things
than just year-make model value, right?
So we're looking at things like how is it being used?
What is the annual mileage?
How is it stored, right?
That's an incredibly important consideration
for us geographically, right?
That can change coastal versus inland, right?
So all of these things are things that we're trying to factor
into creating that price again to ultimately drive towards
what is the predicted risk of that client's portfolio
and making sure that we have a price that aligns with that.
Yeah, thanks, Kenan.
Thanks for demystifying why it's not because we're stubborn
and Kenan likes to sit back and be like,
ha ha ha, I just like doing insurance scarring.
Yeah, no, and I absolutely,
I get the challenge that that can create, right?
Is you have what looks like two identical risks
sitting in front of you
and the quoted premium is different.
And so again, we wanna try to create
as much customization as we can in our pricing, right?
A bespoke solution, right?
For the risk in front.
And that does take into account more variables
than certainly might be just present
when doing kind of a side-by-side comparison.
But I know, and Sabrina, you talked about your team
and ultimately we have a great team internally
that can help support that and not necessarily
and this other we can cut if we want to, right?
But I think it's helping explain kind of
what some of those nuances are
in what goes into the underwriting decision
versus the pricing of the policy.
Because there are things,
we wanna get to a point where we have a price
for all of the risks, again,
when we look at kind of the addressable market
of the enthusiast space.
In an ideal world, we have a price
for every single risk out there.
What we have to layer in
is what are the underwriting criteria
that goes into it, right?
We can't get the right price for it.
How do you balance the underwriting portion
with the pricing side?
That's the art, right?
There's a science to it and there's an art to it.
And I think that's something we do very well,
but it's something that's kind of always having to be,
right, to keep up with the changing market.
And you're right, Ken.
And we do from time to time hear that question,
especially in a buy sale, in a private buy sale
situation where we have buyer no seller
and it calls us to get a policy going
and they talked about what they pay for insurance
and we have a different premium for the buyer,
whether higher or lower, and that question comes up.
Hey, it's the same car, it's the same value,
why is it different?
And so I think you're right.
I mean, at face value, it could be confusing,
but thank you, Brian, for demystifying it.
There's a really good reason,
different situations happening for each driver
and we wanna make sure that we're as transparent as we can
when explaining the why, when we get that question.
Yeah, right.
I mean, depending on the state, it's territory rating.
It's household composition, right?
I mean, I think that's a big part of it too, right?
And so no two situations are ever the same.
Is our product structure evolves,
continues to bring in additional variables.
It makes it, it becomes less likely
that you're gonna be able to put two things side
by side and have the exact same quoted premium.
Yeah, that makes sense, Ken, and I think too,
like I just gotta give you guys kudos on the product side
and I feel strongly making this statement
and someone can email me and prove me wrong,
but I would disagree with you anyway.
I think our product appetite is the most broad
out of any of our, you know, kind of niche competitors.
And like I said, I challenge someone
to prove me wrong on that.
Like we do a great job of trying to be
as broad as possible, get as many cars covered
as possible in all 50 states, all situations.
And we get really creative on the product side
to have to do that.
So just kudos to the product team on that.
Just to touch on that really quick,
sorry to talk over you, Ken,
but when we think about the available options out there
in the specialty space, I just saw, I work in marketing
and I just saw one of kind of our specialty competitors
running an ad that's saying only for 1995 and older.
And so I think that's an example
where our product team and the underwriting team
and that art and science of working together
and adapting to the evolving marketplace
allows us to say yes more often and to find those risks
and to really, at the heart of it,
support automotive enthusiasts.
Their love of cars, their love of driving
and to protect these vehicles and this culture.
And part of that is designing the right product
and finding the right price to protect these vehicles
and the folks that love them.
And so we'll just second that kudos,
Brian just shared with you both
because that really does allow us
to take better care of our clients, of our members
and of this hobby and culture
that we all kind of love and participate in.
And going back, it kind of touches on
something we talked about earlier around our consistency
and what that means for the agent.
When you think about our pricing structure
and ultimately if we feel like
we have the right structure, pricing structure
for the risks, the very risks that come our way
through the agency channel,
we can be consistent in what we are saying yes to.
We wanna make sure that again,
whether it's model year, vehicle type,
we, the agent who's coming in and quoting with us,
we are being consistent in what our response is.
I'm not saying that's gonna be yes every time
but we're open to looking at those risks,
underwriting them and getting to that decision point.
The only way we can do that is having confidence
in our pricing structure
to maintain a profitable book of business.
Again, Brian, you mentioned it like we,
I think we're very, we're varied, right?
I mean, we have a very broad appetite
when it comes to the classic enthusiast space.
We wanna maintain that.
The only way to do that is to have
consistent pricing for those risks
so that we can continue to review them
and hopefully work with our agents to get to a yes.
And thanks, Canada.
And just to say it out loud
because I don't think we have on this call.
When we say broadening appetite
and range of vehicles, year make model,
different segments,
we're talking about their ability to at least consider
vehicles and the enthusiast kind of line
from 1900 all the way to 2025.
Am I right?
Yeah.
And I guess we probably have 2026s on the books
by the time this one comes out
if they're not on it already, right?
But yeah, I mean, it is, it's us looking at
not only what is the kind of tried
and true classic antique space, right?
Which we do very well,
but it's the new up and coming
collectible type vehicles, right?
Imports, we've talked about motorsports quite a bit.
But and again, broad specialty space, right?
Motorcycles, tractors, military vehicles.
We want to say yes to all of those things.
But we need to make sure that we have the proper price
and product fit for them, right?
We want to make sure that they're covered appropriately
as well as priced appropriately.
All right.
So we have demystified insurance scoring check.
We've talked about our amazing service center
and underwriting team check.
We've talked a lot about our product
as it relates to like our core product.
But one thing that we haven't talked a lot about
that can often be a big differentiator for Haggerty
but also for our agent's offering Haggerty
are the endorsements.
This is where we'll talk a lot about tailored coverage.
And while we can do that a bit
with the core product and our underwriting,
really endorsements are where we can get,
you can offer very specific coverages
for the way that people love and use their vehicles.
And while this is sometimes overlooked
by some competitors or maybe in the standard market
at Haggerty, right?
We really pay attention to them.
So Kenan, can you help us out?
We'll start with you please.
Walking us through some of the endorsements
that are offered through Haggerty
and how they can help set us apart
and also the agents offering those.
Yeah, absolutely.
This is something on the product side
we're really excited about, right?
Is the breadth of our endorsement offerings
that we have.
And I think it provides an opportunity for the agent
to have a conversation with their client
to truly understand again what the vehicle
that they're quoting means to them,
how they're using it, how they're utilizing it.
And hopefully, right?
Pair that with some of our offerings
that we have in addition to our base policy.
So I'm gonna throw out a quick disclaimer.
All of this is going to be program
and state specific, right?
So always check to make sure
that some of these coverages are available in the state
that you are quoting us in.
And I don't think I'm unique in the product side
to say I would love to be able to snap my fingers
and roll something out in all 50 states
on the exact same day.
But anybody who's been in the insurance industry
for more than six months knows it takes time, right?
There's a process to it.
But to take that into consideration,
we have a wide variety of endorsements designed
to kind of fit the needs of the enthusiasts out there.
And some of the ones that we're seeing
a tremendous uptake in are things like
our chair salvage endorsement, right?
So what this endorsement does
is it allows the member to keep their vehicle
in the event of a loss, a total loss,
in addition to receiving the guaranteed value of the vehicle.
And so this is an endorsement that's really important
for those cherished family heirloom type vehicles, right?
Things that have been passed down generation to generation
or it's a, you've got a client who is really adept at
kind of working on the vehicles themselves, right?
This endorsement allows them to retain that vehicle
while also receiving the payout, right?
In the event of a claim.
So this is a really popular endorsement
that we have, we have things like spare parts, right?
So our base policy comes
with some spare parts, coverages, right?
So these are things that kind of are part
of the vehicle that we ensure.
But we also have additional coverages
that can be added onto the policy
that includes spare parts for any vehicle
that your client may have, right?
Whether it's on our policy or not,
we have blanket versus scheduled coverages
that are available, additional limits
that become available, right?
So again, you think about the person
who collects not only the vehicles
but collects all the things that kind of go with the vehicle.
We have some coverages that can help there.
I mentioned people who like to work on their vehicles.
We have vehicle under construction endorsement, right?
So this is for those vehicles
that are quite road ready yet, right?
But there's value built into the vehicle.
We can ensure the vehicle under construction kind of
for its current value that it's at.
And then this vehicle under construction endorsement
bumps up that guaranteed value quarterly
and then we'll reset, right?
When the policy term ends, we go to renew the policy.
It's an opportunity for you to have a conversation
with your client to determine kind of where they are
in that journey.
Do we need to adjust the guaranteed value of the policy?
But again, this vehicle under construction endorsement
helps just kind of move that along
throughout the calendar, throughout the year of the policy
to keep up with the work that's being done.
And then another one, you know, this time of year,
you know, we're recording this in October.
It is cap season for getting towards the end of it
but still very much in it.
Evacuation expense, right?
So this is an endorsement coverage that covers
the member expenses while moving the vehicle,
the covered vehicle from an area experiencing
emergency conditions, right?
So name storms doesn't always have to be
not just hurricanes, right?
It's broader than that.
But ultimately, if the client, the member
is making efforts to move that vehicle to safety,
we have some coverages in place
to help offset that cost, right?
So another one that has become more and more valuable.
And then I mentioned earlier,
lesser known kind of a newer endorsements
but our motor sports advantage endorsements,
again, really geared towards those people
who are using their vehicle on track, right?
And going to events, we have some endorsements
that help, it kind of takes a couple of things
that we offer and packages them up nicely, right?
Increased spare parts, specialized safety equipment
coverages, debris removal if you've been on track
and have ever had that experience, right?
You know, that can be a costly event.
We have endorsements that can help kind of cover
some of those things.
So again, it's without, we can sit here for hours
going through all of our endorsements.
I think the name of the game is
we start to cover more vehicles, right?
And different usage scenarios,
different hobby enthusiast spaces.
You know, we continue to try to evolve our product
to fit the needs of those members, right?
And doing that to endorsements is a great way.
It's a great opportunity, I think that is created
for the agents to talk to their clients
in figuring out how they're using them
and then working with our great underwriting team
to make sure that they're being added appropriately.
And again, that the fit is there
for the needs of the client, right, that they have.
So it's something we're really proud of.
I think when we look at the results
of how endorsements are being applied,
how they're being used,
some of the things that we see,
some of the advantages, you know,
I think we'll just call out like,
for the agent, higher average premium, right?
So these are obviously, you have your base policy
and then you have these endorsements
that drive up average premium.
But they're also doing it in a way
that is very beneficial to the client, to the member,
they wanna pay for these additional coverages
because they know they're gonna get utilized, right?
And tailoring it to how they're using their vehicle.
It also improves retention, right?
And again, I think it speaks to the fact
that these are clients who are actively engaged
in the hobby, they appreciate the broader coverage
that can be afforded to them
through some of these endorsements.
And what we have found is that they tend
to have higher retention with us.
And I think in turn, obviously with their local agent
that they're placing this through.
So we see these as really valuable tools
that something, again, we're constantly looking to evolve.
We're constantly looking to get feedback,
not only from our members, but from our agents
in how they are applied, what they're covering.
And if there are evolving spaces that we want to explore,
we're always looking to do that as well.
For our service center team,
this is exactly why we refer
to our frontline team as enthusiast advisors.
Bad ala cart offering that we have for coverages.
That's where our team can really help partner
and surface coverages that an agent or a client
may not even know that they needed.
But once you learn about the offering, it clicks
and you know that this can be really helpful
when you're in different situations.
So our team loves these endorsements.
Not only does it make it fun to have conversations
and help uncover needs, but also match up
the right coverage for the client.
So our service center really thrives
with these endorsements and can really be helpful
and I mean the right coverage for you.
Yeah, no, thanks for walking through the endorsements.
I agree with both of you.
I think they're kind of maybe overlooked
in the quoting process and the new business process,
but they can make a massive difference
in the event of a claim.
My trans am, I have the chair of salvage endorsement
and I've seen that save people a lot of money
and maybe agents are thinking, well,
who keeps their car after a total loss?
I mean, I can tell you from my claims experience,
being a claims adjuster at Haggerty for five years,
I think the number is like 38,
40% of people keep their car after a total loss.
There's sentimental value there.
So if you record a DRAM on a daily driver,
like you don't really care,
but if I ever unfortunately would hit something
or wreck my trans am, I'd keep it
and that's significant, right?
What I really love about what we do here, right?
And the cars that we insure,
the vehicles that we try to insure for our members
is they just mean so much more, right?
You know, my guess is your trans am, right?
There are other trans ams on the road.
Yours is one of one, right?
And I think that's how a lot of people view these vehicles.
Again, they're part of the family.
My SUV, my daily driver, I love it.
Direct tomorrow, I go right to the dealership
and get another one and never think twice about it.
I don't think that that is how people are thinking
about their classic antique enthusiast vehicles, right?
These are truly one of one.
They may be able to be replaced,
but I think the option to keep it, to restore it,
to get it back on the road
is something that our members really appreciate.
I like to do something kind of fun
because this group gets to see all kinds of cool cars.
What is one car that we insure that you wouldn't think,
that agents wouldn't think that we insure?
And I can start us off where you guys are thinking,
we insure an M47 pen tank
and we don't just insure one tank.
I think we have got like, I don't know,
80 tanks on the books.
And I think their loss ratio is 0%
because it's hard to herd a tank, right?
So that's what I would say, we insure tanks.
Ken and what about you?
What's a vehicle we insure that maybe
agents wouldn't think of?
It's a great question.
You prepped me for this one
and I still am blanking on the name.
It may be one of you guys can help me.
It's a, I want to say it's Mercedes.
It's an older Mercedes, like military or off-road,
like six-wheeler type vehicle.
Oh, a Unimog?
Yes, thank you.
There you go.
That's the one.
Every time I see a photo of those, it just, well, one,
I think they're incredibly cool
and really want one,
but two, again, seeing those on the books again,
it just speaks to the wide breadth of collectability.
And, you know, again, sometimes it just gets subjective.
Like, someone just thinks it's a really cool car.
That's what they want to collect.
And I'm glad that we have a programmer product
that can accommodate, again,
a very wide variety of collectability in this space.
I know I'm putting you in the spot, Sabrina.
Anything that you've seen come across
the underwriting desks in your many years at Hagerty.
So much, so much.
I mean, less about a specific year
we can model just more thinking segments
that I've been doing this for so long
that now it's like, yes, of course we ensure these,
but if you're interacting for the first time with us,
you're surprised.
We have, especially Stephen underwriting
who focuses primarily on kind of those fun cars
that you think of tuners, custom cruisers, pro street,
all of these different kind of niche segments.
And we get some really fun cars
when photos come through,
especially for the tuner and the custom cruiser segment.
I mean, our clients go all out on these cars
and it always amazes me how much they love,
they pour into these vehicles,
the level of customization with the paint jobs
and how personalized they make these cars.
It's just unbelievable.
It's not kind of your typical car,
but you can tell that they pour everything they've got
into making these fit their personality
and there's a whole community behind these specialty vehicles
that it's just super, super cool.
And so I know my team feels really lucky
that we get to see these photos every single day.
We're gonna get to live vicariously
through our clients' lives and how they use these cars,
but really those kind of niche segments always get me
because you just, you see that car driving
down the road a tuner.
And I mean, your head is moving
watching that car go by
and because you don't see that all the time.
So I'm always amazed that we do cool cars like that.
Also for pro street ends, we get tub cage cars
and just don't look like your average car
and we absolutely ensure them.
And so when I think about fun cars that I get to see,
those are the ones that really are super exciting
for my team.
Yeah, thank you for sharing.
I also am amazed at all the different types of vehicles
that I see flow through Hagerty
and I've had the privilege to visit
many different collections
and the cars that I see in there are mind-blowing.
So I'll answer this and I've got two
but I've had the benefit of
we're running a year-long campaign this year
called Cars You Should Know
where we really highlight a lot of the cars
Hagerty loves to protect
to really help our agents understand
the broadening appetite.
So I've seen a lot of cars
that I was not really familiar with
at the start of this year.
And so one of them I wanna share,
October we're highlighting Toyota.
Now right away when you see Toyota come through
on a deck page,
your last thought might be specialty vehicle or fun car.
But they actually have quite a few
but one that really might surprise you
is the Toyota pickup.
And that was actually the model name
for quite a few years, Toyota pickup.
And if you need a visual for anyone
maybe around my age out there about 40,
the truck that Marty McFly was obsessed with
and back to the future.
And that's the Toyota pickup, one of its iterations.
So that absolutely people love those.
That's 100% something we would consider.
Then another one that again,
if you see it, if your customer tells this to you
or if you see it on a deck page,
a 1995 Nissan 300ZX.
You'd think a Nissan from the 90s,
like what is this, some beater.
But that is another one of those cars
that if it's special to the owner,
if it's garage or taken care of,
not daily driven 100% we would consider that.
So those are just two examples.
And as we wrap up here,
I want to remind agents that
if you go to the business center
and you log in and you click on the insights tab,
and there you can go and see all the cars
you should know content,
as well as a lot of other articles and insights
that we've developed to help you be more successful
and understand the collector vehicle space
a little bit better.
But for now, I just want to say thank you.
This has been a fantastic conversation.
Sabrina, Kenan, really appreciate both your time
as well as sharing all of your insights and stories today.
Really, really thrilled with having you both on.
Oh, yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Well, that's a great conversation.
Actually, I'm surprised
talking about product filings and endorsements,
how fun it was.
But today we heard a couple of things.
Heritage pricing and product strategy brings stability
and confidence to our partners.
Our service center delivers around the clock support
after agents offices are closed and on the weekends.
Our underwriting team works hand in hand
with agents through a consultative valuation process,
demystifying things like insurance scoring
and how it provides fair data-driven pricing.
Our endorsements really set us apart
and gives us a tailored protection
that really no one other competitor does.
That's right.
We learned so much today.
And I want to give a big shout out to Sabrina and Kenan.
Thank you both for joining us
and for giving listeners just a peek behind the people
and the numbers and processes that make Haggerty's
products and partnerships so strong.
Thank you all for listening and remember,
the accelerator is all about helping you grow faster,
smarter and with confidence.
If you're an agent or broker who wants to learn more
about Haggerty's programs, endorsements and tools
that can help you grow your book,
check out today's show notes,
visit HaggertyAgent.com
or reach out to your Haggerty representative.
Until next time, never stop driving.
About this episode
Sabrina Wheaton and Kenin Shoynier from Hagerty discuss the intricacies of product and underwriting strategies that give Hagerty a competitive edge in the collector car insurance market. They delve into the importance of stability in pricing, the role of endorsements, and how their service center supports agents around the clock. The episode highlights unique stories, including a wedding day hero moment, and explores how Hagerty adapts to changing vehicle trends and enthusiast needs, ensuring tailored coverage for a wide range of vehicles.
Original notes
Our guests from Hagerty, Sabrina Wheaton (Senior Director of Underwriting & Operations) and Kennen Choiniere (Director of U.S. Auto Product Management), pull back the curtain on how Hagerty delivers stability, flexibility and top-tier service to agents and their clients.
You’ll hear how product filings really work, why pricing varies state to state, and what makes Hagerty’s endorsements and underwriting approach stand out. Plus, they share real stories of going the extra mile for both agents and collectors.
Here’s what we’ll cover in this episode:
(04:22) Inside Hagerty’s risk-based pricing strategy
(09:03) After-hours service that stands out
(10:26) Boosting efficiency with straight-through processing
(13:55) The wedding day car surprise
(18:54) How agent feedback drives improvement
(21:18) What insurance scoring really means
(23:45) Breaking down risk-based insurance pricing
(28:57) Supporting automotive enthusiasts together
(29:58) Keeping pricing consistent for better risk management
(35:44) Fine-tuning policies and endorsements
(38:14) Smarter coverage and retention strategies
(42:23) Passion that fuels the specialty vehicle space
(44:54) Our favourite classic Toyota and Nissan picks
(46:56) Accelerator wrap-up: grow faster, grow smarter
Links mentioned in this episode:
Sabrina Wheaton on LinkedIn
Kennen Choiniere on LinkedIn
Additional coverage through Hagerty
Hagerty – 4 Questions
Send your questions and feedback to Bryant and John at [email protected]
The Accelerator by Hagerty
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