Beyond the Blue BookTwo Guys Garage Podcast · Apr 14, 2026
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Term
Blue Book
“Blue Book” is a shorthand for vehicle valuation guides that estimate typical market value based on factors like condition and options. The segment title (“Beyond the Blue Book”) and the discussion about variables and buyer competition suggest that guidebook numbers can miss real-world auction or enthusiast demand. It’s a reminder that actual sale prices can differ from published estimates.
An appraisal is someone’s best guess of what your car is worth. Sometimes it surprises you because the appraiser looks at details you might not think about, like how original it is and how it compares to similar cars for sale.
Sometimes a car looks rare because of badges or features, but it may not be the truly rare version. For value, what’s under the hood and what parts it actually has matters most.
A “big block” is a bigger, more powerful-style engine. Collectors care a lot because the engine size can change how rare and valuable the car is.
Term
vent check
A “vent check” is a quick look under the hood to confirm what’s really there. It helps you avoid assuming the car has the rare engine or parts when it might not.
A “small block” is a smaller engine than a “big block.” If you thought you had the rare big engine but it’s actually the small one, that can hurt the car’s value.
Auction blocks are where cars are sold to the highest bidder, often with buyers who specialize in specific makes, models, and rare configurations. Prices can jump dramatically when a car matches a buyer’s “want list” for rarity and condition.
Online auctions change how collector cars are discovered and priced by widening the bidder pool beyond a single location. That can either push prices higher (more competition) or create bargains when demand is lower than expected.
Bring a Trailer is a website where car enthusiasts bid on cars online. The hosts are saying it can affect car prices because it attracts a lot of buyers.
“Getting top dollar” refers to maximizing the sale price by timing the listing, targeting the right audience, and ensuring the car is presented well. In auction settings, small differences in timing and bidder interest can dramatically change the final hammer price.
The hosts emphasize that auction outcomes depend on many variables—who’s in the room, how many bidders are watching, and when the car crosses the block. This is why auction pricing can feel unpredictable even for well-known, high-demand models.
Market trends are the shifting patterns in collector interest and pricing over time. The hosts say they use trends to estimate where the market “stands,” what’s “hot,” and what a buyer “probably should pay” without overpaying. This is essentially using supply/demand signals to guide valuation.
“Patina style” refers to intentionally keeping or recreating the worn, aged look of a classic car rather than fully restoring it to a brand-new appearance. In collector circles, this can be polarizing, but it often creates a distinct aesthetic that can still influence pricing. The hosts frame it as part of modern build trends that affect value.
A restomod is an old car that gets modern upgrades, but it still looks like the classic. People do it so the car is nicer to drive and more dependable, not just a museum piece. It can also change how much the car is worth.
Barrett-Jackson is a big car auction where unusual and high-end collector cars get sold. If something sells for a lot there, it usually means people really wanted that specific car or concept. But auction prices can be “special,” so they don’t always match what you’d get in a normal sale.
The hosts are saying that making a car super unique can be a good thing, because it stands out. But it can also backfire, because not everyone wants that exact style or modification. So the same “wow factor” that gets attention can make it harder to sell later.
A Model T is a very old Ford—one of the most iconic early cars ever made. Today, people often modify them with modern parts so they’re easier to drive and look more custom. The episode is basically saying that how you customize it can make it either a hit or a niche taste.
They’re talking about a Ford F-150 that’s been made to look like a Ford Raptor. Raptors are the off-road versions of the F-150, so this build is trying to capture that rugged style. Whether people love it depends on how close it feels to the real thing and how well it’s executed.
Numbers decoding means looking up the codes on a car to figure out what it really is. It can uncover surprises, like whether parts match the car’s original build.
“Matching numbers” is when the important parts in the car are the same ones it left the factory with. People like it because it’s more original, and that usually makes the car worth more.
A Camaro is a classic American performance car from Chevrolet. The point here is that even common enthusiast favorites like Camaros were selling for big money.
A Corvette is Chevrolet’s famous sports car. The hosts are basically saying that the hot auction prices weren’t limited to obscure cars—Corvettes were strong too.
A “hot rod” is a car that enthusiasts love—often older and sometimes modified. Over time, some of these cars stop being daily fun cars and start becoming collectible.
The segment describes “price creep,” where enthusiast-car values rise over time as supply of clean examples shrinks and demand grows with new collector demographics. This often shows up first in low-mileage cars and unique builds, then spreads to the broader model population.
“Fox bodies” are a nickname for a Ford Mustang generation. Clean, low-mileage ones tend to become more valuable because they’re harder to find in good condition.
A carburetor is how older cars mix fuel with air before it goes into the engine. “Jets” are small parts inside it that affect how much fuel gets delivered.
On some older cars, the ignition system uses “points” that can wear out. When they do, the car may need adjustment or replacement to keep running right.
“Numbers matching” means the car still has its original key parts, not replacements. Collectors like it because it proves the car is more original, and that usually makes it worth more.
A burnout is when you spin the tires on purpose to make smoke and heat. It’s fun for showing off, but it can wear out tires quickly and can be hard on the car if it’s done a lot.
“Right buyer” is about matching the car to someone who values it for the same reasons you do—condition, originality, provenance, or the specific model/year. In classic-car markets, that can matter as much as the car’s specs because two buyers can place very different values on the same vehicle.
Provenance is the documented history of a car—who owned it, where it came from, and what happened to it over time. For classics like a 1969 Chevelle, a compelling ownership story can increase buyer interest and perceived value, especially when it supports authenticity and desirability.
A “console shift manual” describes a manual transmission shifter mounted in the center console rather than on the floor. On classic cars, the shifter location and linkage style are part of the factory-correct feel and can affect how original the car is.
This is a manual transmission where you shift with a stick on the floor, and it has four gears. People often care because it’s part of what makes the car feel and perform a certain way.
They upgraded the brakes to help the car stop better and more consistently. It’s a common upgrade on older cars so you can drive them harder with more confidence.
Control arms are part of the suspension that helps hold the wheels in the right position. Upgrading them can make the car handle better and feel tighter over bumps.
“Born with” implies the car’s original, factory configuration. In collector terms, preserving the original engine (or at least keeping it the same displacement/identity) helps maintain authenticity, which can matter as much as performance upgrades.
They’re talking about researching where a car came from and what happened to it over time. That kind of history can help you understand what you’re really buying, not just how the car looks.
Term
ventag or a body tag
A vent tag or body tag is like a factory ID label on the car. It can tell you important details about when and how the car was built, even if you can’t tell just by looking.
“Chevy 210” is a Chevrolet model name. Here, the important part is that they found out it was built during Christmas week of 1957, which makes the car’s story extra special.
Appraisers don’t just guess a price from a book. They try to learn the car’s story—like where it’s been and what makes it special—because that can affect its value.
When someone says an “East Coast car,” they usually mean it lived in a place that uses a lot of road salt in winter. Salt can cause rust, so you have to check the car more carefully.
Rust isn’t just cosmetic. If it’s already there, it can mean the metal is getting eaten away, and fixing it can be costly—especially if it’s in important parts of the car.
Provenance means the car’s background—like who owned it or who built it. A cool or famous history can make the car worth more to collectors.
Concept
celebrity ownership vs. celebrity driving
They’re saying that owning a car for a short time can be less valuable than if the celebrity actually drove it. Buyers like proof that the car was truly part of the person’s real life, not just a purchase.
They use Elvis as an example of how famous ownership can make a car worth more. But the value depends on how strong the story and evidence are—did Elvis just own it, or did he actually drive it?
They bring up Steve McQueen to show how celebrity connections can boost value. The premium can be bigger if the car is connected to him actually driving it, not just owning it quietly somewhere.
Concept
builder/restorer provenance
They’re saying the person who restored or built the car can affect the price. If it was done by a respected shop or builder, buyers may trust the quality more and pay extra.
A “one-off builder” is someone who makes a custom car that’s basically unique. If the work is really high quality, collectors may pay more because they can see the details and effort.
An appraisal is a formal estimate of a vehicle’s value, often based on condition, workmanship, originality, and market demand. In custom cars, the appraiser’s ability to assess fabrication quality and how the build is finished can heavily influence the valuation.
Paint isn’t just for color—it can cover up how good the metalwork is underneath. If the metal is already finished beautifully, some builders prefer not to cover it.
Concept
builders can recognize other builders
The hosts are talking about how experienced builders can spot quality details that casual buyers might miss. This is about craftsmanship signals—fitment, finishing, and how the car was assembled—rather than just headline specs like engine type. It’s a reminder that “quality” in a build is often visible to people who know what to look for.
“LS” usually means a GM V8 engine family that’s popular for swaps. People like it because it’s powerful and there are lots of parts and mechanics who know how to work on it. Some buyers get excited just because the engine is an LS, even if the rest of the car isn’t great.
A “flathead” is an older-style engine design that’s common in classic cars. People love them for the vintage feel and the classic hot-rod vibe. In this conversation, it’s used as an example of someone focusing on the engine instead of the whole car’s quality.
Some cars look better the more they’ve been used, because they develop a natural “patina” over time. Others people want to restore everything to look like it did when it was new. The question is whether you should keep the original wear or pay for full restoration.
Concept
rest of mods
That phrase means “other upgrades” people have added to the car. Some mods can make a classic worth more, but others can hurt value if they’re not done well or don’t fit the car’s style.
This means making sure your insurance coverage matches what the car is actually worth. If it’s set wrong, you could either pay too much or not get enough money if something happens.
Sometimes insurance companies try to pay less than you think your car is worth. If you have paperwork like an appraisal, you can push back and try to get a fair settlement.
Concept
original verse patina
People argue about whether a classic car should look exactly like it did when new (“original”) or look naturally aged (“patina”). Patina can actually add character, but it has to look believable and not like neglect.
“7.3 liter” is the engine size—how big the engine is. Bigger engine size often means different parts and maintenance, and it can help determine what your truck is worth.
The Ford F-350 is a truck meant for heavy work like towing and carrying loads. The podcast mentions a 1999 model with a 7.3-liter engine, which is a specific older setup. Older trucks like this can be tricky to value, so insurance companies may rely on appraisals or pricing guides.
A frame-off restoration means the car is taken apart down to the frame and rebuilt from the ground up. It usually costs more because it’s a lot of work, so it can change what the car is worth to an insurer.
They’re talking about the earliest BMW M3. The important part is that if you cut it up or swap the engine, it may not match the typical auction price, so you need a different way to explain its value.
An LS swap is when someone puts a GM LS V8 engine into a different car. People do it to get more power and better parts availability, but it can change what the car is “worth” because buyers may want the car to stay original.
They’re talking about what makes a car worth more or less when you go to sell it. Things like popular upgrades can raise value, while certain styling choices can turn buyers off and lower the price.
“Cutting up” a rare car means taking it apart or modifying it so it can’t be restored to how it was. Rare cars are usually worth more when they’re kept whole, so this kind of damage hurts resale value.
They’re comparing a car that’s kept close to how it came from the factory versus one that’s been cleaned up or restored. Generally, buyers pay more for cars that look good and haven’t been messed with too much.
Concept
put LS in it (engine swap)
“Put LS in it” means swapping in an LS V8 engine. Whether that helps or hurts the price depends on how well it’s installed and whether buyers want a modified car or an original one.
“Six-speed” means the car has a manual gearbox with six gears. People swap to a six-speed when they want the car to feel more fun and responsive to drive.
Concept
original value vs losing ground on upgrades
They’re talking about how adding mods usually doesn’t make your car worth exactly what you spent. At some point, the extra upgrades don’t pay you back when you sell.
They’re saying you can’t assume “I spent $100k, so it’s worth $200k.” Buyers only pay for the kinds of upgrades they want, and some builds don’t match the market.
Concept
auction results vs actual market value
They’re talking about how auctions can show that even expensive builds may not bring top money. And they’re pointing out that the price can depend on the day and the crowd, not just the car itself.
Car prices aren’t fixed. They change based on what people want right now, and sometimes pop culture or celebrities can make certain cars suddenly more desirable.
They’re talking about a 1970 Dodge Charger and what it’s worth depending on whether you restore it or keep it mostly original. Even if it’s not perfect, original cars can sometimes be more valuable to collectors.
Concept
survivor vs restoration (originality strategy)
They’re comparing two ways to handle an old car: fully restoring it to look new, or keeping it mostly original and just making it run and look presentable. Which one pays more depends on what collectors value most for that specific car.
Concourse quality is the “show car” standard—basically the level you’d expect to win at a car show. It means the car looks extremely correct and well-finished in every detail.
Concept
originality vs. modernization
This is the classic collector question of whether to preserve a car’s original condition or to modify it to look/feel more modern. Originality often matters to buyers for authenticity, while modernization can improve drivability or appearance—so the “best” choice depends on the specific car and market.
ROI here means: if you spend money on the car (like repainting or updating it), do you get that money back when you sell it? The hosts are asking what choice usually pays off best.
With Porsche, a lot of buyers care that the car is basically how it left the factory. If you change it too much, it can hurt what other enthusiasts are willing to pay.
In classic-car buying, originality matters. If you keep the car close to how it came from the factory (and keep the original included items), collectors usually pay more.
Car prices aren’t just about the car itself—they’re about what the buyer is trying to get. Some people want a car that’s complete and original; others mainly want something they can drive.
For some Jaguar buyers, it’s not just about the car—it’s also about having the original stuff that came with it. That kind of completeness can make the car worth more.
Concept
restoration ROI (putting money in vs getting it back)
When you restore a classic, you might not get all your money back when you sell it. The key is spending wisely on things buyers care about.
They’re talking about the Plymouth Superbird, a very rare, famous muscle car. Because it’s so special and hard to find, collectors pay huge money for them.
A collectible car is one people want enough that the price can go up over time. This episode is basically talking about which older cars are becoming more valuable as nicer ones get harder to find.
The GNX is a rare, upgraded version of the Buick Grand National. Since there weren’t many made and good ones are hard to find, the price can jump a lot over time.
The Mazda MX-5 is a small, fun-to-drive roadster. The 1999–2005 cars are getting older, and in some markets people are paying more for the clean, well-maintained ones.
The Nissan Skyline is a famous Japanese performance car. The late-1990s ones are becoming more valuable because fewer are available in good condition and enthusiasts really want them.
The BMW M5 is a high-performance version of BMW’s 5 Series. The 2006–2010 cars are especially sought after, so their prices can rise as good examples become harder to find.
A hot hatch is a small hatchback that’s been made faster and more fun to drive than the regular version. It’s the kind of car people buy for spirited driving, not just commuting.
Nostalgia means people want something because it reminds them of their past. Cars can get more valuable when they’re tied to memories—like movies or what was “cool” when you were younger.
Concept
build-sheet style documentation
The segment describes an appraisal delivered as a detailed booklet (70–80 pages) that compiles photos and historical/build details. This functions like build-sheet style documentation for enthusiasts, helping support authenticity and informed buying/selling.
Fender codes are manufacturer-specific identification codes used to determine how a car was originally built and equipped. Here, the appraiser uses them to confirm what the car “should have had,” which helps verify originality and correctness for collectors.
It means the appraiser has to look at the car in person, not just from pictures. Up close, they can spot real condition issues that change the price, so the appraisal is more trustworthy.
They’re saying appraisals aren’t just for curiosity—they matter for insurance. If something terrible happens to your car, the value you have documented can affect what you get paid.
They’re saying paperwork matters. Records about repairs and ownership can make the car worth more because it proves what’s been done. Without documents, people may assume it wasn’t maintained well.
LIVE
It is two guys driving podcast.
He's Kevin Bergeron, I'm Willie B. And today, we have one of my friends on that does something
I kind of find amazing and heartbreaking at the same time.
If you've ever had your car appraised, sometimes that number, well, sometimes that number is
not what you've been thinking in your mind, and sometimes that number can completely blow
you away.
That's the great thing about appraisals.
But the layers that you can get into, the depth you can get into when it comes
to appraisals now is mind blowing.
And my man, Burke, has a lot to do with that.
But Kevin, before we bring him on, have you ever been wooed by a car only to find out it's
not nearly as rare, as cool as you once thought?
Oh, it could be a roller coaster.
You know, like, oh yeah, it's got the big block, you do the vent check, and you're
like, no, I came with a small block.
You know, they added these emblems, you know, like, you know, that combination wasn't
as rare as you thought.
And oh, man, but when you hit the jackpot, which I have never done, by the way, but
some people out there, obviously hitting the jackpots with just the right
combination and the right condition.
And you see it, man, they go across those auction blocks and man, they get
those big, big numbers.
So for the rest of us, it's figuring out, well, where do we land?
Right?
Are we at the bottom of the pile?
Are we at the top of the pile or somewhere in between?
Isn't it wild that we're still so fascinated with auctions?
Whenever I come across one, it doesn't matter if it's the bear, the bear
Jackson, the meat comer, you know, a local one.
There's a local auction I go to here, you know, in Colorado, it's got a few
states and they bring a lot of cool hot rods and muscle cars, but there's
something about an auction, even online auctions.
You know, bring a trailer, for example, some people would argue that
that that company is ruined the price of cars.
Some people would argue that it's created a great market for cars.
However you feel about it, getting top dollar for your car is what we all
want, what we all dream of, and then getting the best deal at an auction
is what we always hope for.
And we always, you know, kind of pray to receive, oh, that one day that
nobody's there when that Himikuda rose across the auction block and you
could score it for 60,000 instead of, you know, 600,000.
It's amazing.
It's all about timing.
It's all about the crowd that's there and the eyes that are on the vehicle.
Right.
And I think that's what makes it continually exciting and addicting
is you just never know.
There's so many variables and it's it's just like gambling, right?
You got the dice, you're ready to throw it down on the table.
Man, you never know how it's going to land, you know, like, and there's
like I said, there's so many variables to it.
Like, is that guy in the room, is there two of those guys in the room,
right, that are going to run that price up?
So yeah, you can appraise anything and go, Hey, man, it's worth this
or I've got this into it.
But if there aren't those two guys out there willing to battle it out.
And it might be a whole different answer.
Yeah, it could be it comes a long night and sometimes a tearful one.
But we can certainly look at trends, right, get an idea of, right,
where do we stand and what's hot and what we might expect or what we
probably should pay and not exceed.
And that's where we got our buddy, Burke, right?
Give us a little bit of help.
And I think that's where Burke comes in critical because nowadays,
the trend is not to be trendy.
So nowadays, you look at builds and applications that most people
would would balk at a decade or two ago.
People wouldn't think about building 15, 20 years ago.
And nowadays, people are building them.
They're bringing them back to life.
They're doing it with patina style, personality, contrast to what some people think,
you know, a rest of moderate classic car should be.
But at the same time, it always brings a value to that dollar amount.
And we're here to talk about that today with Burke.
But does it?
That's what we're going to find out a little bit today.
Does dare to be different bring money, right?
Yeah, again, you got to you got to have the two guys there.
So it makes you stand out, right?
You're not just another whatever red 57 Chevy, you know, like you're
standing out, but is that a good thing or not?
Yeah. Yeah.
Recently at the Bear Jackson, the hydrogen powered 57 that we know,
it went for 100,000, but I bet they were wanting more.
So sometimes that individuality that that craziness can come back
and hurt you as much as it can help you.
Yeah. Well, we just had, we just had Brian Fuller on, right?
And he had his his Model T, right?
A Raptor inspired Raptor Ford F-150, right?
A Raptor inspired sort of off roady thing.
Really cool, really great job.
Excellent fabrication.
But, you know, he was a little bit underwhelmed, right?
Trying to find that right guy.
So where should we land?
Take us out, Willie.
Let's get let's get knee deep in this topic, man, because this is a fun one.
Sure.
All right.
It's the two guys.
Rod podcast.
Kevin Bird, Willie B.
We're back after the break.
It is two guys.
Rod podcast.
He's giving bird.
I am Willie B.
And we have a buddy, Burke Payne on.
Hey, Burke, thanks for joining the show, the podcast.
When it comes to appraisals, you are our guy.
You're the guy we go to and lean on for, you know, what's right.
What's wrong with appraisals?
The best means best, you know, you're those guys, man.
You're like a private eye when it comes to people's cars.
There have been numbers decoding,
going that extra layer and finding out, you know, weird things about the car
that maybe they didn't even know as a car has been passed the generation.
So welcome to the podcast.
Great to have you on my friend.
Thank you so much.
Pleasure to be here, guys.
So all right, let's just catch up, man.
In your opinion, we just recently had the Barrett Jackson auction,
the big one down in Arizona.
That's always kind of kickoff of the year.
Any surprises there or did it fit the bill for what you see is pretty
much run across the oxal block?
Factory cars, matching numbers, bring big money or were Resto mods to scream this year?
Look like the matching numbers really brought some nice money.
There were some some very nice standouts.
That 51 Merc, the widow, that that was just beautiful.
Don't know if you guys thought that candy apple red was just absolutely gorgeous.
Was it was that a custom?
Was it factory original?
That was a custom.
OK, and that went for how much?
Do you remember?
I don't remember what it went for.
Boy, I don't remember.
I just remember how beautiful it was.
I get distracted.
So I was a weirdo that was snapping photos of some of the cars
going across and send it to my friends.
Like, I can't believe it brought that much money.
But let's just let's just set the ground game.
Cars were going for huge money, just just regular cars.
It seemed like the cars were bringing big, big, big dollars,
man, and across the gamut.
Didn't matter if it was a Camaro, a Chevelle, a Corvette.
Old cars had some bang to them this year, man.
Do you think you find that true?
What's been the trend the last, you know, up and down the last 10 years,
let's say, and where are we relative to that?
You know, we're seeing.
Unfortunately, we're seeing some of the some of our generations
are aging out of the hot rod.
So you're seeing a lot of them go up for sale
and they're getting sold relatively inexpensively.
Well, some of the older ones, some of the older, like 30s, 50s kind of thing.
Like what? Yeah, 30s, 50s.
Those those that generation is kind of aging out of the hot rods.
The ones that are really surprising
in the year of the 2000s that are coming out, some of the cars
that, you know, would have been in the high school parking lot
are now, you know, becoming collectors items.
Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely the next big wave is
right the next generation of folks.
And what did they drive?
Well, what were they ripping around in 18, 19, 20 gone?
Gone are the days you sleep on a gen three freaking Camaro.
You know, I can't believe the money that those are commanding.
Some of the low mileage, some of the wild, you know, one house they had
or unique builds, same thing with the Fox bodies.
But we've seen that creeping up.
And you you kind of that's kind of true, right, Burke?
That that when people that with the high school
see the things when they get money, when they get 35, 40 years old,
have some expendable income in their thirties, they tend to go back
and purchase these cars, dial them in, dial them up and so forth
and bring it back to life, right?
Absolutely. It's it's either what you had in high school,
what you wanted in high school.
You know, I mean, the thing that surprises me, the the Volkswagen
Gulfs that are coming back now, you know, the 95 to 98 Volkswagen
Gulfs are becoming a collector, you know, market there.
And that surprises who did that?
Why they did that?
Yeah, that surprises me too.
So I don't know any other surprises or trends that you think were unique
to the year or you see is, you know, continuing on a continuation
of what we've seen in the last few years, like restomods.
They seem to be the big jam, the big, you know, a big money item
that, you know, a lot of celebrities bid on those, a lot of big names.
I don't know who the guy is.
He's got to be some influencers, some social media guy,
but he bought up four or five cars and just bought them because
he thought they were cool.
He's like, well, I'm into that one for 170,000.
I should at least go look at it.
You know, I'm like, wow, some people have too much money,
but they love cars.
And that's what keeps our that's what keeps our industry alive
is that, you know, is the love of the cars, you know.
And the rest of mods are really they're coming.
Everybody wants something they can hop in and drive.
You know, they don't want to have to worry about changing out,
you know, points or changing out
jets in the carburetor.
They want to be able to hop in and drive.
And that's where the restomods come in.
You know, you can park it in your garage all week long,
hop in that restomod on Saturday, take the wife out to dinner.
Sunday, go to church, go to, you know, get ice cream,
whatever you just hop in and go.
That's the nice thing about the restomods.
Highway miles, highway stop, you know,
highway speeds, that kind of thing.
Well, it seemed like it took a long time for people to figure that out.
You know, I mean, 2000s, you know,
about when Willie started getting into like ripping out old stuff
and putting in the new stuff in, but it just seemed so apparent
that older cars aren't that great, you know,
once you compare them to something new,
but it seemed like from the auction block, it took until, I don't know,
2010s or even later before we started to see the numbers matching
kind of, let's say, fade a little bit relative to people
actually spending money on super modified cars.
Yeah, absolutely.
I don't see that changing, right?
But we do have these little blips where, like this time around,
there were a few numbers matching that kind of blew up a little bit.
I think the big thing with numbers matching is there has to be
some type of draw to that numbers matching.
I mean, you know, there are cars that who cares
if their numbers are matching, I'd rather be able to drive them, right?
But, you know, you get, you know, a 65 Mustang, you know,
you're probably going to want it numbers matching, you know,
especially if it's something unique, you know, we recently got
to help out the Shelby collection here in Boulder
with some appraisals on some of their vehicles,
and they've got some beautiful cars in there.
And those are ones like you want those ones,
numbers matching you want to mess with.
You don't want anything done to them.
Well, you certainly have collectors.
And then as you pointed out, you have drivers, you know?
So for sure, any any collection wants to have that, right?
Perfect. You know, I've got one of how many
and mine is cooler than the other guys.
And right, check out my other one over here.
But yeah, like the influencer, it's like,
I got one for every day of the week to drive, you know?
He just wants to rip and do burnouts, which God bless them.
Absolutely.
Right. Amen.
So obviously, you know, bringing, you know,
bringing the right money for your car is something we all consider.
We all think about none of us like to sell cars.
But if you get that right buyer, like I just sold my Chevelle.
I got a black 69 Chevelle.
I absolutely love the car.
It's it's why the story that made me sell the car.
Very few things make me sell a car.
I heard from the the son
of the man that originally bought it off the dealership
and he bought the car.
He wanted Chevelle.
His wife wouldn't it wouldn't let him have a Chevelle at first.
She had some car, long story short,
she crashed cars three or four months after she had it.
He said, I'm going to get a Chevelle.
He stopped in on a way home from work, told the dealership.
He wanted a Chevelle.
He said, how many do you have on the lot?
They said three.
He goes, what do you have one is black?
And they said, yes, we have a black one.
He's like, get the car ready.
I'll be here tomorrow to get it.
And he showed up the next day and picked the car up, right?
And it was had some different options.
It was a 350.
It was a console shift manual.
Now it's a floor shift four speed.
But it was a really clean, clean Chevelle.
And I scooped it up for a good price.
And, you know, I'm making some money on the car.
But the guy, to me, those old muscle cars still bring big values,
still bring big numbers.
I did some upgrading to the brakes,
to the control arm suspension, made a little bit of a wrestle
model, but kept the older 350 because that's what the Chevelle
was born with.
And it had special meaning to this guy.
He was really happy I kept it.
So in that case, the guy, the right buyer found me
and I can't replace it for what I sold it for.
But I made money on it.
So I was happy to let it go to a better, you know,
lineage, a guy that would care for it more than what I could ever
because his dad had such a connection in a bond.
He had pictures of it in high school.
He drove it in high school.
So there's moments, memories and history that come with cars
that I think even car guys would sacrifice the car for.
And that was recently with the Chevelle.
But to find out the history of a car, you need somebody like you.
You need you need a guy that's willing to dig in the layers
and find out things that we weren't aware of, things that maybe
you're looking at a ventag or a body tag.
We just see a bunch of numbers.
You actually go layers deeper to that stuff and find out a lot
about the car that's new for the family, new for the people
that have bought or purchased the car and tells the history of it.
You're the OG Car Facts.
Like how cool is that to be able to bring new history of the car
to people that that have purchased it?
It's really fun.
We recently did an appraisal on a Chevy 210.
And the guy bought it for his wife as a Christmas present.
Absolutely gorgeous car.
Well, in doing the research, we actually found out that it was
built Christmas week of 57.
So he bought her a car for Christmas that was built during Christmas
and 57 way cool, way cool.
So again, things that you wouldn't necessarily know or understand
about the car. That's that's how great appraisers, right?
Go that extra mile and find out things or, you know, just ways
that, again, tie you personally to the car and, you know,
finishes the story about how that car was born and how it will
continue to live on through generations, families and, you know,
through sellers. A lot of times it's just people buying a car
and they want to know what they got, right?
Absolutely. You know, when you when you go to buy a car,
you want to know what, you know, where has it been?
You know, what has it been an East Coast car?
You got to look for other problems if it's an East Coast car,
you know, you know, I personally took that gamble
and wouldn't say I lost, but I didn't do great on it,
but ended up with a lot more rust than I thought was going to be
there. But we'll get there.
What are some of the factors?
I mean, clearly, there's market, right?
So what does the market want to spend on something?
But what are some of the odd factors that can affect
the value of a particular model or car that you're looking at,
whether it was owned by, hey, this was, you know, Rockstar,
so-and-so owned this thing or, you know, Builder,
you know, Mr. Fuss built this car or just, you know, whatever.
It's an East Coast or any of those things.
What are some of the unique kind of influences that might push
a value up or down for unexpected reasons?
If the cars ever owned by a woman named Amber,
I would stay away from it.
Just on a personal note, any woman named Amber owned the car
previous owner, probably want to just turn that car over
to a church parking lot.
You're absolutely right.
Provinance, you know, a celebrity.
You get someone, you know, in the racing industry that owned
that car, that we can actually put them in that car,
as opposed to, you know, Elvis bought a ton of cars
but never drove them.
He just owned them for a short time before he gave them away.
And people say this is an Elvis owned car.
Does it have Provinance?
Absolutely.
Is it doesn't have the same Provinance as one that Elvis
personally drove? No, it doesn't.
Same thing with Steve McQueen, you know, if Steve McQueen drove
the car, it's worth a lot more than one that he just owned
on his ranch or something like that.
How about restores or builders or things like that?
And is there any sort of weird, you know, unexpected influences?
You know, absolutely when it comes to builders, you know,
we get the, you know, the fooses and those guys that are just,
you know, they do phenomenal work and those always carry a premium
as opposed to, you know, Shade Tree mechanic who did it in his own backyard.
But yet there's there's those mad scientists out there
that are working in their own garage that just build some absolutely
beautiful stuff. We saw a 32 Roadster
that was built in Cheyenne, Wyoming of all places.
But the builder did an absolutely phenomenal job.
This was I mean, every piece of this car was hand touched
and it was just absolutely gorgeous.
So do you think that can translate?
Because right when you've got a big name shop, clearly it's like, hey,
there's a buzz going on, you know, hey, there's ex builders
car coming up and that one probably will do well.
But as you said, there are some phenomenal one off builders
and they do really great jobs and you can go through
top to bottom and you can kind of see all the details and know
that this thing is built. Awesome.
Do you think that gets reflected most of the time?
Some of the times, I think it's reflected some of the time.
What it takes is the connoisseur, the person that can actually look
at it and see the work that's been done.
The this particular car that we did the appraisal on didn't have any paint on it.
And in my personal opinion, I wouldn't put a piece of paint.
I wouldn't put a drop of paint on it because it was just the metal
work was just so beautiful.
And, you know, you could tell that everything was hand massaged
and it was just it was phenomenal.
Yeah, I think connoisseur is a tough one.
Yeah, geography doesn't stifle creativity.
It's just getting the eyes on it to appreciate that creativity
and bring the price to where it needs to be.
So I think builders can recognize other builders for sure.
But I think a lot of just car guys, I don't know if they always
have the eye for right what goes into the quality of, you know,
like they just go, oh, cool.
It's got an LS or it's got, you know, it's got a flathead.
But they don't have to have the eye.
They they got their dime on their on their elbow.
Tell them to buy the car.
You're going to buy it regardless of what the dang thing looks like.
And that's the reality of it.
Now, we got we got to take a break when we come back.
Original versus patina.
There's something going on.
I believe in the in the industry in the market about finding cars.
Yeah, it's saving them.
But if it has that original patina, is it worth restoring the whole car?
Doing all flossing, glossy paint and body restoration or the people
want to see how it originated from the factory?
Given the wear and tear and whether it looks, we'll talk about that.
Coming back on the Two Guys Garage podcast.
Kevin Byrd, Will It Be?
We're back after the break.
It is the Two Guys Garage podcast.
He's Kevin Byrd.
I'm Will It Be.
We have a buddy, Burke Payne on.
He does appraisals for all kinds of vehicles.
New, old, hot ride, rest of mods, muscle cars.
What do you do mostly, Burke?
Is it muscle cars?
Is it newer cars?
Is it old school?
Is it fat fender stuff, street rides?
What's what's your what's your jam?
Most of our cars that we currently do are just the normal classics.
You know, you see at the every every car show kind of thing.
People mustangs.
Yeah, mustangs.
We've had we've had some really unique ones that we've really enjoyed doing.
But for the most part, you know, it's the mustangs, the Camaros, the the chargers.
People looking to make sure they got their insurance set properly.
They're not paying too much insurance, not paying too little insurance.
Oh, you know what?
That's such an important factor when you're thinking about your car.
If you're buying some car at an auction or a muscle car
or you get your car back on the road, making sure you have that appraisal
to match what you're going to insert the car for.
In case something were to happen, in case, you know, it gets stolen, in case,
you know, you get an accident and the insurance company
wants to give you the bare minimum price for a, you know, old school school build.
If you have an appraisal, you know, if you had an appraisal done,
you have a real number that you could take to an insurance fight and battle.
And that, my friends, will save you so much money in the end.
Insurance companies, surprisingly, they don't like giving you back
all that money you've given them over the years.
They don't. I swear.
I promise they don't.
It's crazy, but they don't know.
They love giving out money.
That's what they do, right?
Burke, let's talk original verse patina.
But you know what?
That is something before I hop off that topic,
that is something every car owner should, in fact, do, correct?
Absolutely.
You know, every, you know, anything, I would say anything 10 years older,
10 years older, older needs an appraisal on it.
For instance, I've got a 99 F2 or F 350 sitting in my driveway, the 7.3 liter.
My insurance company, if they Kelly Blue Book is, they're going to say seven,
seven grand for it, but those things are pulling 20,000 easy,
especially with with 158,000 miles on a 7.3.
Those things will go a million.
But what how do you how do you appraise?
Right, because you've got all these rest of mods, let's say.
So it's not just, you know, a 69 Camaro, you know,
it's got all this stuff changed to it, so it's not original.
It's not a restoration.
How do you figure that out?
And then how do you justify it to the insurance company?
So there's several ways.
If this is a complete frame off restoration that's been done
and basically every part's been massaged, we're going to do what we call
to build appraisal, where I basically what is it going to cost
to rebuild this car exactly like it is?
Now, if it's your, you know, your Camaro that's, you know, had breaks done,
you know, new control arms, all that kind of stuff.
There's a lot of those out of the marketplace that you can find
to use as marketplace examples to help determine the value.
OK, because sometimes you've got to add and delete.
Like I've got a first gen BMW M3 that, you know,
if you look at bring a trailer, right, some of those have topped 100 grand,
but I carved it and cut it up and it's got an LS in it.
And it's, you know, it's a full bill with, you know, 1,000 plus hours in it.
So it's it's like adding and subtracting.
Well, it's like, well, you kind of have a, you know, a really popular car,
but you you kind of ufted up a little bit and it really bad ass.
And it's so like the add and delete box or columns seems like
it's a little challenging.
But how would you go about something weird like that?
So basically, we look at where what's driving the market, you know,
is it the LS swap in that particular vehicle?
Is it, you know, and we look at it that way.
And, you know, sometimes, yeah, sometimes we say, hey, you know,
you you painted flames on this car.
So it's not quite worth as much as it would have been.
How do you not paint it old school claims on this car?
The reason being is the new owner who comes to buy it.
They're thinking I've got to have this car repainted
because I don't like the flames or I don't like the scallops
or whatever is trended out of the out of the car club, you know,
at that time. Yeah.
So what drives the market?
What about what about cutting up a car that's rare?
So he he mentioned that in three that the first in in three,
that's car most people don't cut up.
That's most most people are getting big money on that car
to factories, stock, you know, cleaned up scenario.
What if you do some wild and crazy, like put LS in it,
customize fat fenders on it, put a six speed in it,
crazy, expensive on it, make it all loud and rowdy like the kids like to do.
Well, what about like, does that add money?
At what point do you start losing ground on the original value?
Let's say that car's worth 100,000, but he's got at least 100,000 upgrades.
Does it even out scale out?
A lot of times it doesn't, unfortunately.
A lot of times, you know, we we get calls all the time, you know,
you know, hey, I put, you know, I put a hundred thousand dollars
into this car, what's it worth?
And I'm like, it's worth 90.
It's worth 80,000 and trying.
But it's like you either you chose the wrong way to go
or the wrong model to do it to, you know.
Well, and you can see it all day long at at auction, right?
There's a lot of cars that you know have two, three,
four hundred thousand worth of stuff going on, right?
Work, labor, paint, parts and sells for 100 grand, 125, right?
Somebody lost 50, 70, 80, 100 grand, you know,
just because they didn't have the right guy there.
Now, does that mean that's the market value or that particular day?
That's that's an argument.
But still, you see a ton of those go through.
Absolutely, you know, and that's that's it exactly, you know,
the appraisal is a snapshot in time.
What is that car worth at that exact moment when I come out and start taking
pictures of it? That's what that car in the market, where is it sits now?
Six months down the road when Hollywood decides to redo American graffiti
and those prices skyrocket, then, you know, that changes everything.
So the market is always changing and it's interesting to watch the trends
as far as, you know, popularity and what what celebrity
was seen driving what hot rod and how did that affect the cost,
you know, the value of them down the road? Damn, crazy.
Yeah. Well, speaking of trends, right?
Willie's brought up this patina thing and that's been a big trend for a while.
But how do you how do you weigh, you know,
a car coming in with this really cool original paint?
Let's say my all time greatest car, 70 Dodge Charger.
You got one that's found in a barn.
It still has original paint on it for 2060 car, but it's got rust on it.
One side has got surface rust.
Maybe another side doesn't.
Interior is a little tore up, but it's all there.
It's got a tear in it.
Dash has a crack in it and, you know, it's it's all factory.
But it runs, drives four speed.
Do you take that car and restore it like new paint body off?
Or do you take that car, clean it up, get it running, right?
Get it sealed up and running good and present it as a survivor.
In your opinion, what brings the most money?
You know, a lot of times the survivors are going to bring the more money
because in a way, it's a blank canvas for someone who is looking to do
a complete frame off restoration and bring it showroom quality,
you know, concourse quality coming off the showroom floor.
Sure. But then there's those ones that, you know,
like we recently did one on a Corvette and it was owned by
a lady's father who had passed away and she was asking me,
she's like, the paint's all crackled and that, you know, should I repaint it?
I'm like, no, don't mess with it.
This thing's been garaged its whole life.
The, you know, it's not something you want to mess with.
But right, they don't lack your paint and that crack in it.
Yeah, sometimes it looks kind of cool.
It gives you that texture, that feeling.
So yeah, something like that you can see leaving, you know,
as you will, patina style, because you're not going to get the money
out of it if you paint it.
Is if you had to lean people in a direction
when you're looking at a car and a lot of times you do this with your appraisal,
you give them the value of their car, which helps them make a decision
on which direction to go with it.
Would you say that originality is the most important factor
or the work that they've done to drive the car
and present it in a more modern way?
What's the best way for the most return on investment?
Meaning money?
That's a difficult question, because it depends on the make of the car,
because they're Porsche for one.
You don't do anything to a Porsche other than factory stuff,
because when a new Porsche guy comes to buy it, that's what he's looking for.
He's looking to make the same thing with Jaguar.
Make sure that all the wrenches that came with it are in the trunk,
because that's what they're looking for.
Now, American classic cars, it's more, can I drive it?
Can I hop in it and drive it down the road?
And I really think unless it's something spectacular,
a one of 200 build or something like that,
doing the rest of mud might be worth it.
You just got to watch how much money you put into it
and what direction you go.
You know, I don't know that you want to paint it pink
because I don't think that's going to sell very well, you know, down the road.
Yeah, amen.
Although the pink panther chargers do bring a lot of money.
And it's crazy to see what those super birds are bringing down.
The car used to be a hundred thousand dollars.
Now it's a million dollars, dude, every one of them.
Yeah, it's absolutely crazy.
It's I mean, looking back at my high school, you know, chargers and that,
you could pick those up, you know, fifteen hundred bucks from the guy down the street,
you know, and now you can't get a rust bucket, you know.
Oh, completely destroyed one for under, you know, a hundred thousand.
It's insane. Yeah.
All right, man. So what else is collectible?
If you're looking at cars today, we only have a few more minutes.
What cars do you think are going to be big money?
Like you said, a lot of the 80s, a lot of the 90s.
I was stunned when I saw what Buick GNs are going for, or GNXs.
Some of the Rammer cars, I think, are going to be big in price down the road.
But what about domestic?
We have we haven't spoken a lot about Japanese cars.
You mentioned Jaguar.
Some old Jaguars bring big money.
But what do you see in trends being, you know, big money makers
still out there still, you know, that we may not be thinking about?
You know, the the 99 to 2005 Mazda MX-5s are definitely starting
to receive the price go up on those.
The Nissan Skylines, those, you know, the the late 90s models,
those are increasing in value almost daily.
You know, your 2000s, your 2006s and to 10 BMWs,
the M5s are increasing in value.
It's it's amazing.
BMW makes a collectible car, man.
It's amazing how many BMW collectible cars and performance cars are out there,
but they got a lot of them in.
What's interesting, when you said earlier in the podcast, the the Gulf,
I mean, certainly, man, they had, you know, some arrows in the Gulf
where from a bang for buck car that would rip around.
But you would never think of a Sirocco.
You see what a Sirocco could bring?
Yeah. It's crazy.
I mean, I always thought those were cool when I was young
and you don't see very many of them, you know,
kind of unique looking folks, right?
But a Gulf just looks so mundane that, you know, it's a little surprising
that even with some of the arrows there that, you know, had the the hot setup on it,
you know, it was a super hot hatch there that someone would want to go back
in time and spend the money that they're now they're now bringing,
you know, versus buying a BMW, you know.
And I think a lot of it's that nostalgia that, you know,
what did I have in high school?
What did I want in high school?
You know, what, you know, what was, you know, what was the big deal?
You know, and, you know, do you think about some of the movies
that, you know, that the Gulfs were in, you know, and the, you know,
the rom-coms, you know, the hot girl in the Gulf, you know, convertible,
you know, that that's what they're looking at, you know.
So it's those trends that seem to push people, you know, it's our history.
You know, my dad's generation, American graffiti, you know,
if dad had a chance to buy one of the American graffiti cars,
he'd do it in the heartbeat.
I want to bring up before we run out of time.
So Burke has been doing these appraisals for years.
He's done a few of my cars, personally.
No, several people that seem to before we wrap up, run out of time.
You should tell everybody what a finished booklet they receive
from, you know, a good appraiser like yourself.
If you're getting your car appraised, like this guy,
this guy goes layers deep and you could pay him to do an extensive,
you know, deep dive on your car, where it was made, when it was made,
who made it, the first guy that, you know, ever had a flat on it.
You could find out just about anything to do with your car.
But really, what is that finished product that you're handing
the individual after you do a deep dive appraisal?
So our appraisals, they basically come in a book form.
They're they're between 70 and 80 pages long,
including the pictures that we take in that.
And I do do as much history on the car as I can.
I do as much history on, you know, who who is the designer?
All that kind of information is in there.
You know, like Willie said, I'll break down the I'll break down
the attached fender codes for you and say, hey, you know, this is what,
you know, this car should have had.
This is what this car is.
Those type of things.
The biggest thing with an appraisal is the in-person inspection.
There are there are hundreds of companies on the internet
that say that they will give you an appraisal on your classic car.
Just send them pictures of it.
Well, I can take pictures of a car from 20 feet away
and make it look like it went across Barrett Jackson.
But when you get up close to that personal inspection,
that's where that's where the, you know, the pavement meets the ground there.
Yeah, no doubt, man.
And it is a thorough, in-depth look at your car at the market.
He has a lot of like he was telling you, Bert, he does a lot of market,
you know, lookups to find cars that are as close to yours,
even as unique as yours is, as close to it and what it went for,
when it sold and different, you know, different avenues that sold on,
whether it's bringing a trailer, Barrett Jackson auction,
like we've been speaking about, or Amica auction,
or just local online retails of the other vehicle.
So it's a very in-depth sort of look in your car.
If you guys are interested in it, info at BP Auto Appraisals dot com.
That's info at BP Auto Appraisals dot com.
Berka, anything else, man?
As far as your appraisals go, it's it's a it's a cool skill and craft
you have more people need to do it, not just to have that security
of what your car is worth, but like we talked about early,
the insurance case, something catastrophic were to happen.
A car got stolen, something happened in a fire.
It is valuable to have these papers, these documents
in this history in the car.
You know, absolutely.
And we even do your everyday driver, you know, insurance companies
are notorious for low-balling claim settlements.
And if you feel like you're not getting a good deal from insurance company,
give me a call and I will do a free offer evaluation and tell you,
hey, this is a good offer or no, I think there's money on the table.
Well, that's awesome.
Info at BP Auto Appraisals dot com is where you find my man, Berk.
And hey, I don't know if that burst your bubble on your BMW there, Kev.
Oh, it's burst a long time ago.
I went into knowing exactly what the hell I was doing.
I'm a foolish, foolish man.
I got a six-pack CBRB as a race car, so I can't talk.
All right, guys, there you have it, man.
Make sure you check out our show Air Weekends on Discovery Turbo.
Check your local listings also available on Discovery Plus.
Thanks to our producer, Scoop, senior producer, Justin Carter,
executive producer, Bob Becker.
He's converted only being this is the Two Guys Garage podcast.
Don't forget, guys, check out our website, TwoGuysGarage.com
and our social at Two Guys Garage and the Two Guys Garage podcast
is copyright 2026, Brenton Productions, Incorporated.
All rights reserved.
Awesome, man.
Berk, so you're a car guy at heart.
You have your own hot rider, muscle car or car you're restoring
because I think you leaned into it a little bit at the beginning of the podcast.
And did your did your bubble get burst
when you did appraisal on your car, too?
It not so much got burst.
It the the long and short story of is I bought it from a high school buddy
side unseen, was told it was ready to go into paint
and took it over to my paint guy and he's like, we need to take this to blast
and get it blasted and it looked like Swiss cheese when it got back from blast.
So we're we're about six months into the rebuild
and and I don't even want to talk about the money, but it'll be a full.
It's a it's a 52 sedan deluxe delivery.
Oh, cool.
And I'm going to use that's a unique one.
I'm going to use it for my business, paint the logo on the side of it,
go to car shows and that with it, but it's going to be beautiful when it's done.
That's what we always say, beautiful when it's done.
All right, buddy, take care, man.
Thanks. Awesome.
Guys, I hope you hope you learned something.
I hope you had some fun with this, most importantly,
and we'll catch you on the next two guys garage podcast.
Take care.
Two Guys Garage podcast is a production of Britain Productions.
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Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
About this episode
Auction highs, appraisal surprises, and why “value” isn’t just a number take center stage with Burke Payne, an appraiser who digs into provenance, codes, and build details. The hosts compare matching-numbers muscle to restomods and patina survivors, arguing that individuality can either boost or hurt price depending on the buyer. They break down how celebrity ownership, builder reputation, and even market timing move values, plus why insurance appraisals matter. Burke also shares examples like a Christmas-week build and explains his 70–80 page appraisal book and the limits of photo-only estimates.
To restore or leave it raw? Burke Payne, a former homicide detective turned appraiser, returns to the podcast to bring his "private eye" skills to the art of the auto appraisal once again. We break down the ROI of resto-mods vs. survivors, the rigid originality rules for European marques, and why "dare to be different" builds don't always hit the auction jackpot. From decoding fender tags to avoiding a financial "crime scene," this episode is your roadmap to car value.