BJ McLeod’s journey from Florida super late models to NASCAR Cup ownership is told through grit, business savvy, and staying authentically himself. He describes quitting school early to race, learning aggression and craft in go-karts and super late models, and the pivotal relationships that shaped his rise. The conversation then shifts to the humbling leap into trucks/Xfinity, why he built his own teams, and how charter ownership with Matt Tifft led to a profitable sale to Spire. Off-track, he explains Live Fast Motorsports, driver development, and launching an indoor RC track and a Pigeon Forge racing coaster business to fund racing.
Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with one of the hardest-working members of the NASCAR garage this week, longtime racer and car owner BJ McLeod. After finding his roots in the Florida super late model scene, BJ took lessons he learned early on in his family’s fertilizer and orange harvesting company to successfully assemble a fleet of NASCAR entries. BJ’s racing start came through years of go-kart barnstorming up and down the East Coast with his father, before acquiring special permission to enter the late model ranks at the tender age of 12. Through mentoring from legends Pete Orr and Gary Balough, BJ became a terror at Florida strongholds like New Smyrna and Orlando Speedworld. He’d win the coveted World Series of Asphalt in 2010, and it was time for the next challenge.
That next challenge came in the form of the world of NASCAR. BJ put together rides in the Trucks Series before taking on the O’Reilly Series with his own team. When the opportunity to purchase a charter and go Cup racing came about, BJ partnered with fellow racer and businessman Matt Tifft to roll the dice. He would make the financial decision to sell the charter to Spire Motorsports, but still aspired to embark on a Cup racing career, which he independently financed from his other businesses like the Pigeon Forge Racing Coaster. Today, BJ remains one of the hardest-working owners and drivers in racing, akin to 1992 NASCAR Champion Alan Kulwicki. His conversation with Dale covers his humble beginnings, championship years in late models, and fulfilling his unique dream of being a driver/owner in NASCAR.
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"NASCAR is full of crazy stories these days and you can make your race day story even more epic with FanDuel."
NASCAR is a popular American race series. Drivers compete in stock-car style cars, usually on oval tracks, and the race is as much about strategy as speed.
NASCAR is a major American stock-car racing series where drivers race highly regulated production-based cars on oval tracks. It’s known for close racing, frequent cautions, and strategy around pit stops and tire management.
"FanDuel has so many ways to bet on your favorite drivers and races from individual race winners to prop bets to which drivers are going to take home the championship."
Prop bets are bets on smaller race outcomes, not just the overall winner. Think of them like “what happens during the race?” bets.
Prop bets (proposition bets) are wagers on specific outcomes or events within a race, rather than just who wins. Examples include which driver finishes in a certain position or who will lead at a particular point.
"...buys a portion of a cup charter and goes cup racing, sells it years later, makes millions of dollars..."
Cup racing is NASCAR’s top division. It’s the most competitive and usually the most watched level of NASCAR.
“Cup racing” refers to the NASCAR Cup Series, the top level of NASCAR competition. It typically involves the biggest teams, most attention, and the highest level of competition.
"750 and he bought a spreader truck and started spreading fertilizer and orange groves in Central Florida."
A spreader truck is a truck that can “sprinkle” or distribute materials like fertilizer over land. It’s built to spread it evenly instead of dumping it in one spot.
A spreader truck is a vehicle equipped with a mechanism to distribute bulk materials—commonly fertilizer—over fields. In the segment, it’s tied to the family business that started with spreading fertilizer in Central Florida.
"They got up to I think the most they ever had was about 10 but the bulk of their business was picking and hauling. Picking oranges off the tree, put them in the tubs, load them in the trailers and carry them to the plant."
Over-the-road trucks are the big trucks that travel longer distances. They’re different from local hauling because they’re set up for moving loads across regions.
“Over-the-road” trucks are long-haul trucks used for interstate or regional hauling rather than short local delivery. In this story, they contrast with the family’s main work of picking and hauling oranges to a plant.
"because he street raced so it was uh it was pretty cool to hear the stories of him they used to they used to grudge race and and do all that stuff he started that um he probably started in 60 or 61 somewhere in that area and you know and street raced all the way up into the early 70s."
Street racing is when people race cars on public roads instead of a track. It’s dangerous and illegal, and the story is about how racing motivated his dad.
Street racing is illegal competitive driving on public roads, often involving grudge matches and high-risk speeds. The speaker connects it to his father borrowing money for a truck so he could earn more to race, and describes racing into the early 1970s.
"they used to they used to grudge race and and do all that stuff he started that um he probably started in 60 or 61 somewhere in that area and you know and street raced all the way up into the early 70s."
A grudge race is a head-to-head street race between drivers who have a personal rivalry or ongoing dispute. The term is used here to describe the father’s racing culture—more about competition and ego than organized events.
"there's a lot of drafting and a lot of pushing and bumping and you got to be pretty aggressive and take holes just like we see on Sunday now"
Drafting means you follow really close behind another car so the air resistance is lower. That helps you go faster and set up a pass.
Drafting is when a car/ kart follows closely behind another to reduce aerodynamic drag and gain speed. In oval racing, it’s a key part of building momentum for passes and maintaining position in packs.
"they loaded me up and took me to a dirt track him and one of his best friends and they knew the dirt racing in Florida was a little bit rougher than asphalt racing"
A dirt track is made of loose surface, so the grip changes during the race. Drivers have to adjust their driving because the car can slide more.
A dirt track is a racing surface that changes grip as cars pass, due to dust, ruts, and evolving traction. Drivers often need different setup choices and driving technique than on asphalt to handle sliding and variable bite.
"...what my parents you know had me in which you
know was go-karts then and switch to super late models..."
Go-karts are small race cars kids start with. They help you learn how to drive fast and race safely before you move to bigger, faster cars.
Go-karts are a common entry point for NASCAR and other motorsports. They teach basic racecraft—lines, braking points, and how to handle traffic—before moving up to faster stock cars.
Part
Detroit semi engines
"...right like I've done that
[1360.5s] changed semi-tires I have rebuilt Detroit semi engines I have I've done everything you could do..."
Detroit is a brand of diesel engines used in big trucks. Rebuilding one means taking it apart and fixing major internal parts so it runs like new again.
“Detroit” typically refers to Detroit Diesel, a well-known manufacturer of heavy-duty diesel engines used in trucks and industrial equipment. Rebuilding a “semi engine” suggests the speaker had experience with major diesel powertrain work, not just basic maintenance.
"...get some seat time and then try to do that right..."
“Seat time” means actually driving the car. The more you drive it, the better you get at controlling it and understanding what it needs.
“Seat time” is time spent driving the race car in practice or competition. More seat time generally improves a driver’s comfort, consistency, and ability to communicate setup needs to the team.
"...Zach Jermaine I actually driver coach Zach um back in I think he ran K&N from 10 to 12..."
A driver coach helps a racer get better by teaching driving techniques and reviewing how they performed. It’s like having a mentor who helps you improve faster.
A driver coach helps a driver improve technique—things like braking points, corner entry/exit, and racecraft—often using feedback from practice and prior races. In motorsports, coaching is a common way to accelerate development when moving up the ladder.
"So when I think I first saw you walking down Pit Road in your suit at an Xfinity race or a rally race or maybe you're a truck racer, you stand out."
Pit Road is the area at a race track where teams pull in to work on the car. Drivers come in there for things like tires and adjustments, and when you do it can change who’s leading.
Pit Road is the lane inside a racing circuit where teams service cars during stops. It’s where drivers enter and exit the pits, and it’s a key part of race strategy because timing and speed in the pits can affect track position.
"he was very, very active mobile. Like I was just about to say he'd love to drive a semi, right? [2162.6s] Like he sat a CDL as whole. Like never lost a CDL."
CDL means Commercial Driver’s License. It’s the special license you need to drive big commercial trucks, like semi-trucks.
CDL stands for Commercial Driver’s License. It’s the license required to drive commercial vehicles like semi-trucks and other heavy equipment in the U.S.
"Yeah. You, um, made your Xfinity series debut in 2015 with Rick Royer."
The Xfinity Series is NASCAR’s “second level” of racing. Many drivers use it to prove themselves before moving up to the top Cup Series.
The NASCAR Xfinity Series is the sport’s second-tier national series, positioned below the Cup Series. Drivers often use it to develop skills, earn rides, and build momentum toward full-time Cup opportunities.
"...a lot of guys come in and, and if they're fortunate get these little spot starts, but they're, they're always like thinking I'm gonna get, I'm gonna keep trying to get these opportunities..."
A spot start is when a driver only races in a few specific events. It’s often a chance to show what they can do and earn a bigger opportunity.
“Spot starts” are one-off or limited races where a driver fills in for another driver or gets a chance without a full-season ride. They’re common for developing drivers trying to earn a longer-term contract.
"I had to test for, um, uh, furniture row at Pike's Peak in 2000, it was 2010."
Pikes Peak is a well-known race up a mountain in Colorado. The air gets thinner and conditions change a lot, so it’s a tough test for both the car and the driver.
Pikes Peak is a famous hill climb in Colorado where competitors race up a mountain course. It’s known for extreme elevation changes that stress engines, cooling, and traction.
"When you want the right parts that are the right fit, there's only one choice. GM Genuine Parts and AC Delco original equipment, designed, engineered, tested, and backed by General Motors."
These are factory-style replacement parts made for GM cars. The idea is they fit correctly and work the way the original parts were intended to.
GM Genuine Parts are parts made or sourced by General Motors to meet GM’s specifications. They’re typically designed to fit and function like the original components on GM vehicles.
"When you want the right parts that are the right fit, there's only one choice. GM Genuine Parts and AC Delco original equipment, designed, engineered, tested, and backed by General Motors."
AC Delco is a GM-linked brand that makes replacement parts for GM cars. People mention it because it’s meant to be the “right fit” for repairs.
AC Delco is General Motors’ parts brand, known for replacement components that are intended to match original-equipment standards. It’s commonly referenced for maintenance and repair parts on GM vehicles.
"that was helping me at the time we were standing in it. And I was like, we both love RC cars. [2917.0s] And, you know, he was kind of the caretaker for the property."
RC cars are small cars you drive with a remote control. They’re like real race cars in miniature, and people can build tracks and adjust how they handle.
RC cars are radio-controlled model cars that mimic real racing and driving. People often build tracks and tune setups for traction, speed, and handling the same way they would with full-size cars.
"I built an outdoor track and I actually built it next to my house, which did not make Jessica [2926.4s] happy because it was a clay track and the dirt, whatever things weren't quite right would go [2930.2s] on the house."
A clay track is made of dirt/clay, and it can get slick or messy depending on the weather. That means the cars may not grip the same way every time.
A clay track is a surface where traction changes with moisture and tire wear, which can make grip inconsistent. That’s why weather can strongly affect lap times and race plans on clay.
"...it is not expensive... You rebranded your race team to Live Fast Motorsports in 2021."
Live Fast Motorsports is a NASCAR racing team. They’re mentioning when the team changed its name/branding in 2021.
Live Fast Motorsports is a NASCAR team. The speaker notes the team rebrand in 2021, tying it to the broader discussion of the team’s racing operations.
"...when you were running your um, Xfinity program... our cars... we'll, we'll crack a quarter panel or..."
A quarter panel is a metal body piece on the side of the car near the rear wheel. If it gets bent or cracked in racing, it can need repair or replacement so the car stays safe and fits right.
A quarter panel is the body panel on the rear side of a car, between the wheel opening and the trunk/roof area. In racing, damage to quarter panels can affect aerodynamics, fitment, and safety, so teams often manage repairs and replacements carefully.
"...we saw that you qualified really well for the Daytona 500 this year and was running really well in the race till you had an issue."
The Daytona 500 is NASCAR’s biggest race. It’s a huge deal, so if something goes wrong during the race, it feels devastating.
The Daytona 500 is NASCAR’s premier race held at Daytona International Speedway. It’s a high-profile event where qualifying and race execution matter a lot, and mechanical issues can be especially painful because of the race’s importance.
"And that's what I told Jessica was like, we can afford to own something in Pigeon Forge. Like let's, let's call Teddy and figure out something to own that makes people happy. Right?"
Pigeon Forge is a popular vacation town in Tennessee. It’s full of fun things to do, especially for families—so the idea here is to build an attraction people enjoy.
Pigeon Forge is a tourist-heavy area in Tennessee, best known for attractions like amusement rides and family entertainment. In the segment, the speakers are talking about building an attraction there that makes visitors happy after they “get off a ride.”
"And so we built the Pigeon Forge Racing Coasters, but open June 19th will be a year and it's a successful..."
A roller coaster is a ride with tracks that goes fast and makes big drops and turns. They’re describing building one and how it’s doing.
A roller coaster is an amusement ride that uses tracks and drops to create high-speed thrills. The episode segment centers on building and operating a specific coaster attraction as a business venture.
"And so we built the Pigeon Forge Racing Coasters, but open June 19th will be a year and it's a successful... And now I get to say, I can't own the theme park, but I own one ride."
A theme park is a place built for fun—usually with rides and attractions. Here, they’re talking about building a roller coaster as part of a bigger tourist area.
A theme park is an entertainment venue built around a specific concept or set of attractions. In this segment, the discussion is about developing a coaster as part of a larger tourist destination rather than just owning a standalone ride.
"because, because the cup series, unfortunately has a billionaire sport now, not a millionaires,
[4835.4s] right? And I'm not a billionaire. We just simply can't afford it, right?"
In NASCAR, the Cup Series is the top, most competitive level. It’s also the most expensive to run because teams have to race often and stay compliant with the rules.
The “Cup series” refers to NASCAR’s top-level national stock-car racing series. Teams race weekly and must meet strict rules for cars, drivers, and competition, which is why it’s expensive to run full-time.
"I would have signed any waiver, anything with NASCAR to not get sued, whatever I could have done to get in that car."
A “waiver” is paperwork that helps protect the people running the event legally. If you’re stepping in to drive, you may need to sign it before you’re allowed on track.
A “waiver” is legal paperwork that releases certain parties from liability when a driver takes part in an event. In motorsports, late substitutions often require additional signed documents before someone is cleared to drive.
"[5545.8s] Yes. And on the old Atlanta, man, I can tell you right now, first lap, I'd have been on
[5550.1s] against the wall through one and two wide open, get as many spots as I could have."
The first lap is when the race is most chaotic and passing is easiest. The speaker is describing an aggressive plan to grab positions right away.
In stock-car racing, the first lap is often where drivers make early position gains because the field is bunched and passing opportunities are plentiful. The speaker’s “against the wall… wide open” comment highlights the aggressive approach some drivers take to maximize track position immediately.
"[5555.0s] Like you just, because you do that stuff back then, like, and I knew with that car,
[5559.1s] just get me to the green. Like that's, that's where it would have been, been game on."
“Get me to the green” means “get me ready for when the race actually starts and speeds up.” The green flag is when drivers can race for real.
“Get me to the green” means the driver wants to be ready for the restart/green-flag conditions, when racing speed and competitive passing begin. Teams and drivers often focus on being prepared so they can immediately capitalize once the race goes green.
"GM Genuine Parts and AC Delco Original Equipment, [5949.4s] designed, engineered, tested and backed by General Motors."
General Motors is the company that makes GM vehicles. In this segment, they’re saying the parts are supported and meet GM’s standards.
General Motors (GM) is the automaker behind many brands and the parent company referenced in the parts pitch. The segment emphasizes that the parts are “backed by” GM, implying manufacturer support and standards.
Select text to request an explanation
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You're Dale's Jr.
Should I say it?
It's Dale Jr. podcast. I gotta say it.
Hey everybody it's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. download
the guest segment here and we got a great one coming in today. Somebody I wanted to have on
on the NASCAR circuit. He's had quite a story coming in to the truck series. Spot rides here
and there finally developed an Xfinity team that he owned himself into a full-time program, buys
a portion of a cup charter and goes cup racing, sells it years later, makes millions of dollars
but he's still out there trying to compete today. Where did this guy come from? What is
his racing history? What is his level of success? Can he drive a race car? Has he won races? I don't
know that we all understand the answers to those questions. I certainly didn't but the more I hear
about BJ McLeod the more intrigued I am. This guy, he doesn't look like the typical cup racer. He
doesn't dress like the typical NASCAR racer. He doesn't try to. He's authentically himself
and I want to know more about him and I'm sure you do as well. There are some fans out there I'm
sure that are very versed on his story but there's a lot who aren't and we're going to learn today.
Where did this guy come from? How did he get his start? What's he up to these days? What's the
future for BJ McLeod and live fast racing? Let's get started. Let's get him in the room. Thanks
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Meat and Three Box. You get more meal for your money at Arby's. Arby's, we have the meat so we
got a great show for you today. Let's get going. So Burton Darwin McLeod Jr. Yeah and so born in
Florida 1983 in November. What did your family do? What did your dad do? What did your mom do in
Florida? What were there? So you know go all the way back. My dad actually borrowed, he worked at
a mechanic shop. Saved up $250 and 19 I think early 70s late 60s and had a friend loan another
750 and he bought a spreader truck and started spreading fertilizer and orange groves in Central
Florida. So he started his business with that and you know met my mom and they built it into you
know they had some over-the-road trucks. They got up to I think the most they ever had was about 10
but the bulk of their business was picking and hauling. Picking oranges off the tree,
put them in the tubs, load them in the trailers and carry them to the plant. So
they got up to picking and hauling about two to two and a half million boxes of oranges a year
and that's the business they had when I was born. So I you know I spent a lot of time I was very
fortunate that my parents owned a small business and I got as long as I can remember I've been
intrigued and wanted to be in the middle of anything that moves or you know it doesn't matter what it
is. So I remember being four or five years old and being at the shop while mom is handwriting
300 paychecks like I mean I can I remember that like it was yesterday and watching my dad work
you know leave before daylight and come back well after dark and and making you know making a livin
and yeah it was it was a lot of fun to be raised in that and you know the the race inside of it is
my dad only borrowed the money for the spreader truck because he wanted enough money to work on
because he street raced so it was uh it was pretty cool to hear the stories of him they
used to they used to grudge race and and do all that stuff he started that um he probably started
that in 60 or 61 somewhere in that area and you know and street raced all the way up into the early
70s so it was he was just really trying to make money so he could race. Yeah um you initially
quit school in the seventh grade um and you did homeschooling yeah you didn't just you didn't
drop out. No no I I did um like I said it you know before 10 years old I remember going to the
theme parks and being born and raised central Florida you you just frequently go to universal
and Disney if you're you know if you're fortunate enough to and luckily my family was you know very
good to me and you know I had those opportunities so I remember going around those theme parks thinking
man I went home one of these I had no idea that they cost billions of dollars right so it's it's
just funny to think about that stuff and you know being at um being at the the shop and and seeing
everything and seeing people make money and I was you know stuck in school all day and and honestly
you know I was a straight A student I was in the honor society all that stuff really yeah all the
way up um you know talk quit it was just only seventh grade but still it's like it just truthfully
if you assert yourself it wasn't that hard so it's like I've you know I told my parents I was like
I have I want to make money like I'm their stuff I mark you got to think though I started I drew
my first super late at 12 years old I tested at Arbondale Speedway and you know I I already had
300 go kart wins plus I had 20 some championships plus wk titles like my parents they they really I
was racing three different classes a day three days a weekend right so it would start literally my
parents would pick me up at school at like let's say noon on a Friday my dad would drive through
the night to get me to South Carolina or North Carolina to race behind the Speedway um Columbia
South Carolina uh Palmetto South Carolina um just you know all these places and he would drive
through the night we'd race on Saturday run at least three classes then when he would load up
and drive me back to Florida and we'd race three classes at Arbondale on Sunday and they gave me
back to school on Monday that's that's literally the dedication that my parents had when I was a kid
tons of success yeah well it's just my dad I remember going um first time they took me to the
the little Speedway behind behind Charlotte I got up here with these guys in wka and and you know in
purple plate blue plate when I was you know that age there's a lot of drafting and a lot of pushing
and bumping and you got to be pretty aggressive and take holes just like we see on Sunday now you
can't you gotta be aggressive right and I got used up pretty bad and was way too timid and
dad told me he's like if you ever drive like that again we will never be back yeah it's like
and they they loaded me up and took me to a dirt track him and one of his best friends
and they knew the dirt racing in Florida was a little bit rougher than asphalt racing so
they took me there and they said you don't finish find somebody and run over them like start something
and I was like I was just I didn't want to do none of that right but but my dad was trying to
teach me how to to be tough and and to you know make things happen and and uh sure enough I went
out there and and you know I remember they told me they'd but they'd get me a beer if I'd wreck
somebody and I was like I don't want a beer anyway but the the funny part was I went out there and
wrecked someone and they were happy with me right and it's like yeah and it's like you know but we
went back to Charlotte and I just have always I'm a very I drive how I want to get drove kind of guy
and you know I the thing was when we went back to Charlotte I finished third or fourth something
like that and and this is wks I mean this is really hard races to run good in and I just remember
making my way and and not getting used up like I was before and I did it in a clean way but I was
still aggressive and made it known that I wasn't going to be pushed around and yeah and that was
something that you know my mom and dad especially my dad if we weren't going to be competitive
he would not go he would quit it was always every single week I had to earn my way like he he never
like he was he was you know he had my back in the things that mattered but it was simple performer
don't go like it it was he wasn't going to waste his time because he loved to drive too like he would
he drag race if I wasn't going to be serious he'd just go drag race right so you know it just I
felt like you know I had to fight for that and then honestly I watched you know as I got older
14 15 and I'm winning in Superlates and I think the year I was 14 we won 23 races in Superlates
and finished top 250 top it was top 253 or 52 times between running Friday Saturday at Orlando
Newsom are on a Sunday sometimes at Braden which is now the Freedom Factory like just running all
over the place so you know I got had a lot of success and and you know I just I remember seeing
an interview sometime around that time with your dad about you know RC and being at you know at
Childress and stuff and how with all of his success and everything he had accomplished and knowing
that he had nothing to truly worry about it was he felt like every week he got in the car he had
to prove that he belonged there right and it's like when I saw that I just every time I get in
the car I remember it right it just it just stuck with me when I seen that interview because you
know someone with that level of success that still shows that level of commitment and especially
this is 98 or 99 I mean it's you know he's up there in age right and and he still thinks like
that and it was uh it was something that I'll never forget yeah you're um talk about racing
Superlates so who's helping you and and uh you know you went you you won a lot of races had
a lot of success racing uh the short tracks in in uh Florida but um who was supportive of your
program outside of your parent yeah so really the first person I remember was Peter um they
hired him he was you know he made he ran a couple of bush series races back then but um they hired
him to kind of show me the ropes when you know my dad my dad had a friend uh Randy warned that
you know literally practiced with me the first couple of times and then once we figured out
that I was going to be able to drive and and go to do it um that's when he went and found Peter
Orr and he's like hey Pete was winning a lot around there that time him and David Russell and
and he said um he's like I need you to help BJ get up to speed yeah and uh Pete Orr was my
first driver coach and I was 13 years old when we uh when we got together and then another one
that sticks out is Gary Belu like it was he's a character it was really cool to get to work with him
and and the things I learned from that guy with defensive driving and and the way you restart
different things it was it was a lot of fun so you know I had those guys um to really kind of
shape the beginning and you know I think the biggest thing is getting to race against you
know David Rogers and Wayne Anderson and Dick Anderson and Mike Garvey and and the list just
keeps going right like the the central Florida super late model racers and then
you know Southern All-Stars in 1999 and and those guys it just it just I got to race with some really
tough hard old school racers and I was a kid right like I was I was 15 when I ran Southern
All-Stars and 14 the first time I raced Gary Belu right so it was um it was really cool to learn
that stuff that young and and be in that atmosphere and and see the see the level of commitment from
those guys yeah we had Gary come on the show and um his book Hotshoe is a really good read
talking about his life I mean I'm sure did you get an opportunity to ever
ask him about his past and all the challenges I mean just unbelievable what that guy put himself
through yes and and he he's still around to tell us the stories today um you you won the
track championship in your rookie year at Orlando um so here's here's in 97 you go run some ASA stuff
Jennerstown Southern National um youngest driver to qualify and compete in the ASA ranks uh one uh
your first late model race at Orlando speed world youngest youngest driver in the country to win in
late models uh you mentioned the all-star series in 98 in 1999 uh you were heralded as being a
Gordon uh in the Daytona Beach news journal but I had never heard your name I really knew
who you were until you got into the Xfinity series right and I had no idea that you had
done all of this and I don't think that a lot of people do like when we're on when we're on our
broadcasts and you're in a race or you're you're you're you're around and we're gonna mention you
and talk about you people will say yeah this guy won a lot of races in Florida racing late models
but nobody ever really goes into detail about it and I think a lot of our current younger fans
know you mainly from your your experience in racing in cup and Xfinity as a car owner as well
but um you legit like won some badass big late model races against really really tough competition
um you you're not often out there boasting or talking about that but you did it like that was
your you you you you did all those things um it's such a contradiction almost of
that person and the person you are today um you're living up you're in a whole different arena
these days uh and it's tougher but you don't seem to mind your plight you don't seem to mind your
objective and your goals and you don't understand what those are and they're measured and calculated
but talk about like you know what what first off I guess take me through the how much you enjoyed
racing at the at that at that level in super late models having success um what what did you believe
was your dream at that time what was your path where did you vision where was your vision
where did where did your vision have you going yeah I mean if you go back to the beginning of
superlates um I mean my entire life so five years old I actually want to be an indie car driver
yeah then I turned eight and started growing and that 10 I was five eight and 185 pounds and I was
like you know what I'm gonna go to NASCAR out right so I just felt like I fit more in NASCAR
and especially back then you know most of the guys were were big guys right so I um you know I
really dreamed of being a NASCAR from you know before 10 years old right probably around seven
or eight but um you know I I was always wanting to go there had no idea at that age what it takes to
to make it to this level um really just focused on what my parents you know had me in which you
know was go-karts then and switch to super late models and you know I started winning in super
late and everybody's telling me that you know I can make it I can do this I can be a NASCAR
and I kind of thought that you just get there right like you just keep winning and eventually
you'll be there and you know I kept winning and and I never never made it to NASCAR right and
there was a point where you know I had a couple interviews I come up here a couple different
times for some different stuff and like what so I got I actually tried out for the Herzog ride
when Jimmy was moving Hendrick um they did like a combine type deal where you know you uh you
went to Concord and drove the car drove the ASA car and and then if you did well enough there you
were going to get to race it and you know I went up and there was like nine different drivers I
remember the car I got in already had the back bumper smashed somebody put in the vents and
and you know I remember parking on pit road after the test I did 75 laps straight and I still remember
I varied two laps I varied two tenths and I never been on Concord but two laps I varied two tenths
and the other 73 laps I varied four hundredths and and I hadn't been an ASA car and you know
probably three years at that point but um anyway I remember parking on pit road and
how he let it walked up and he's like put the wind in that down he's like how'd you like to
race Nashville and I was like I'd love to race Nashville right so they took me to Nashville
and you know we were third quick in practice and and it's weird how you remember this stuff right
like that's 20 years 20 plus years ago so uh anyway third quick in practice went out to do a
mock run somebody spun and and I parked just to just I just slowed down to miss them and I got
ran over Travis Kittleson actually hit me running like 80 or 90 mile an hour destroyed the car and
we had we had a bad backup and bottom line I finished 18th or something in the race had a
meeting with Herzogs after the race they wanted me to come test the actual bush car back then
I think it was a Kentucky they were doing a test and then there was some kind of misalignment
when we left that's really you know an odd situation because I was getting told by you know
like their agent they had they had their own like agent people that worked with them they were
communicating with me and then I had an agent as well and you know they were going back and
forth and it was like they wanted to offer me the ride the boat on actually ended up taking Todd
took it um or yeah it was Todd took it and uh you know they they offered they told me even told me
money amount you know amount of years like they were getting a contract and and um the last conversation
I had was it was like something about I had to fire my agent and sign with with you know this
group and I don't it wasn't I don't know I don't know what was going on I don't really know I just
know what I was told right and I was told I had to sign with with these other agents and I just
you know the way I was raised and the things I did I just you know I was I wasn't I just wasn't
gonna fire my agent bottom line like it had nothing to do with the money I did drive the car
for free I could make money to eat like I had no worries about that it's truthfully my entire life
I just know I'll make money so it's it was more about I'm not gonna step on the guy that got me
an introduction because I had been winning in super late models until this agent come to me it was
Jay Schultes um until he come to me I I didn't ever get a chance and he got me literally come to me
and in a month I had an interview inside of Herzog's building right so you know I went and I just I
told him I said you know I would I said I don't mind if it's about a percentage thing you guys can
take your percentage he'll take his percentage I'm gonna keep him but I'm not signing with y'all
with with the agency and I never got a phone call back and it really just all ended right there as
far as that one goes and and to this day I am thankful I made that decision I have zero regret
even knowing that you know Todd won I think a race or two in that car and could have changed the
whole landscape of me being you know 42 years old with zero wins and really I think I got two top 10s
to who knows if I got in that car I may have ended up being a successful truck driver you know getting
several wins I don't want to go back and redo it yeah 100 happy with the decision I made so
you know anyway after that um ended up coming up and talking to Jermaine at one point I think in
05 or 06 and really just couldn't ever put the money together to to get a truck yeah for their
truck yeah when I think they had just started it was Toyota I remember that and just couldn't
put the deal together so same time you know 0304 04 you know I had been working my parents business
since I was 12 did homeschooling finished that actually enrolled back in high school got a real
you know diploma not not the gd the high school the equivalency test or whatever actually got a
diploma so I finished all that and you know I was I was sitting there working for my parents
I did everything I changed semi-tires I changed microjets and orange grove like literally the
irrigation and orange grove that it has one microjet under every tree and you're talking thousands
of trees I would go out there and spend weeks changing microjets right like I've done that
changed semi-tires I have rebuilt Detroit semi engines I have I've done everything you could do
and I am you know I'm 18 19 years old at this point hurricanes come through Central Florida
tear it up really we had we had Hurricane Charlie was the worst and it destroyed like a whole line
of about 20 miles through Central Florida Central Florida so I you know I you know I'd already
met Jessica at this point my wife now you know my parents had and I had started a little you know
excavating company where we just went bought we you know have a couple track hose and excavators
and front end loaders and bulldozers things like that we just you know kind of got one of each to
just start going that route well when the hurricanes come and tour everything up there was so many
demolition jobs and at this time you know Jessica she called me one day and she's like do you uh do
you want to do get a demolition license and see if you can go get some work and I was like well
how much is it and she said 50 bucks and I was like yeah I said let's do it I said I'll talk to mom
and dad rent the equipment from them and we'll go do it so that was the first thing her and I did
together and uh we we grossed half a million dollars in six months and I was 19 years old
and it's like I um you know I just remember going after it and working and I took about
probably five or six months off they can go to the racetrack it was really bad down there at that
time and um you know I remember my first race back and it was like I I could pay for it like I
didn't have have to have mom and dad pay for it right so it um it was pretty cool and I remember
that and you know at that point I just hadn't I had never had anything develop into anything up
here that wasn't a lot of money and I was like you know I'm just gonna win Super League Model races
like I have so much I always will have so much respect for everyone that races at the regional
level in every class like it doesn't if you go to the racetrack and race on Saturday night
and work on your car and unload it and and bust your ass to go win like you got my respect right
so it's you know I was happy to stay there and win and and just go for it and you know I think um
you know we won probably another 40 or 50 races from 2004 to 2010 and when I was sitting there on
the front stretch um you know with the take I remember this like it was yesterday I was taking
the pictures for one in the World Series and that was a dream of mine like it's really hard to do
and it's and it was a dream and it's like wow this is this is like it was so cool for about
five seconds and then my mind takes over that I'm you know I'm I just like being driven and and
trying to make stuff happen and I'm looking around and I'm like I can't feed my family with with
winning this race like I can't I can't you know I can't further my life from from accomplishing
this in my opinion like it was just it was so cool and it's still the coolest thing I've ever done
like performance wise on the track the World Series is the best to me learning that at New
Samarna the best thing I've done right as a driver but it's still you know it was I just saw it as
okay well we accomplished this now we need to accomplish something that we can't right and
you know that's I you know my car owner asked me that night at that point he said wait what would
you do if you could do anything the rest of the year and I said right now I would sell our late
models I would round up enough money to go run one truck race and he's like if that's what you
want to do do it so I literally like the next month got a meeting with my coming singer my
coming junior and when and talked to them about building a truck because as much as I'd won I
just didn't believe in myself to go when you know in a top tier truck because I just know
how hard this stuff is and I was like I want to go race a truck that I own that it's more affordable
get some seat time and then try to do that right and I talked to my coming senior and he's like
if you'll work here every day at Jermaine yeah Jermaine's they hired you no I would do it for
free you weren't there for free yeah work there for free and they built my truck so we paid for
material right they supplied the labor and built me a craftsman series truck for uh for October
Martinsville that year it's 2010 and I worked every day with everybody there seven to whenever
I've tore down I took Todd's trucks apart did to tear down on them and and then I'd work on my
truck whenever they had time to work on it and you know it was really fun because I mean I did
everything sweat floors clean bathroom I did everything you can do in that shop and at this
time I you know I did have a successful business like we were just gonna you know we've been you
know we're what six seven eight years into it at this point and and I wanted to go do this like
that's I wanted to be a NASCAR because it's something I never accomplished that I wanted to
yeah so that's uh you know that was my way in and and the the Hillman family the entire family
and the Jermaine family were the ones that got me going up here like without them I'm not here
bottom line like they there was nobody else to go you know make this happen in my opinion
it was the only relationships I had and you know they you know I remember Steve from Jermaine
and Zach Jermaine I actually driver coach Zach um back in I think he ran K&N from 10 to 12 or
something like that um you know I K I driver coached him and I just did what I could to to to
get in here and network and and you know build the right relationships to be able to move forward
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work built like it matters because it does. So before we transition from your life in Florida
and then you moved up into this area eventually to do more racing at the top three skill levels
of truck and Xfinity and so forth, I want to talk about your style. So when I think I first saw
you walking down Pit Road in your suit at an Xfinity race or a rally race or maybe you're a
truck racer, you stand out. You don't look like the other drivers. Not anymore. What do you mean
not anymore? I think if I got here in the early 90s, I might have been, you know, I might have
fit in a little bit more, but it's not hard to pick me out now. Right. So your affliction,
black, hat backwards, skulls, has that always been you? Yes. So give me top three concerts.
You know, I've only been the one in my life. Give me the top three go-to.
So to go to? Definitely corn. I went to Metallica. That was my first one, right?
That tracks. Yeah, but corn for sure. Jonathan Davis is insane.
Jonathan's been in this room. Yeah. He hasn't been on the show,
but he's come toward the shop once. Well, so in my life, I have never like,
I don't know what you'd call it. Like I was never been starstruck, right? And I saw him at Vegas.
I was racing the cup race. I saw him walking through the garage at Vegas and I'm like,
I'm going to get a picture. Right. Like I ran up to him, like, dude,
can I get a picture with you? He didn't even know I was driving a cup car, right? But it was like,
it's like, yeah, man, I'm like, dude, I've listened to music. Your music has helped me when I was
broke or, you know, whenever things are hard, like it just, it just motivates you. Right. So
their songs are very motivating. Yeah, absolutely. So him and then I've really taken a liking to,
I've always liked Telstorm, Lizzie Hill, but I, at least recently, like I've, I'm like,
I really want to go to one of her shows. Like I'm, I'm definitely, you know, I've just, I've just
started to think about it. When you were racing super late models back home, when you were young,
is this your style? Oh yes. This is my style when I was 12. And so, but did you sort of tame it down
when you came north or came, yeah, when you went up north? No. Yeah. That's, that was the advantage
to not dealing with whatever went on back in 01 with the Herzog thing. They, I remember they made
me wear polo shirts and in all this, I was dressed up and I did it. And I would be thankful to do
that, to be clear. Right now, if someone said, Hey, we want to take a chance on a 42 year old,
we want you to drive for us. We need you to wear polo shirts, you know, this, that and other,
I'll do it. I do it in a heartbeat to win. I'm not doing it to run 30th. I'm going to dress how I want.
Yes. Well, there ain't many people walking around the garage that are that, that are,
that are dressed like you. And maybe there would be more if they could, but I always thought that
you stood out and, which I have similar taste in music, but it, it, it is, it does make you
unique. And I, and I think that you, you appreciate that. You wear that as a, you know, as a badge
of honor, I think. Yeah. I, you know, I think that what I like to do, because especially now I'm
in the position that I can and I honestly didn't worry when I should have. And now I don't have to
worry, right? But it's like, I want to do it for everyone to say, Hey, you know, we, you know,
you have your time, but you're at work, right? Like you, you know, I'm, I'm just going to say
Ryan Blaney, right? He's at work on a Sunday. You got to do what your partners need you to do.
That's right. But he's still Ryan Blaney, right? Like he's still different. He's still,
you know, got to worry about him. Like it's, it's like, that's a great comparison. That's,
and that's what I want everyone at home to know. Like no matter what corporate job you've got or
what, you know, manager position or whatever, right? You go, you go cover your tattoos up if
you have to, right? Like that's, that's life. But when you leave, be yourself, right? And then
whatever chance you got, make sure everybody knows who you really are. That's awesome. Like that,
that's what I do. So you came up, uh, did you move here when you decided obviously that you
wanted to go truck racing and leave behind the, um, you know, the late model stock or the
super late model stuff that you're doing, did you move up here? So we, we got a, uh, first thing we
did was get a condo and I had exit 25 over there, like close to the lake. And that lasted about two
weeks because I'm, I've grown up on the smallest land I've been on is five acres, right? And I've
never had somebody stomping around above me. So I was like, I'm out on this. So we found a town
home because I'm like, I can't, I like neighbors. Like that's, that's fun. But I'm like, I don't
want nobody walking around above me. So I switched to a town home pretty quick. I think it lasted
two months on the condo and switched to a town home. But I still, my driver's license is Florida,
my primary home, Florida. Yeah. We just, we just spend, you know, extra time we spend in Florida
when we're working. We're up here. So we're up here a lot, but, but, um, what all, what all remains
of your family business, uh, the excavating business, your dad's business, uh, the place you
grew up, the shops, all the things, what all remains. So we actually, everything excavating
business went away whenever, um, Jessica and I left, uh, you know, I started focused on the
race and deal in 2010. Um, the picking and hauling, they kept that going for a couple more years.
Then she kind of shut that down and, and mom and dad really just relaxed and, and you know,
honestly, my dad loved to drive a truck. Are they still in the same area? Yeah. So mom, mom
actually stays up here with me now. Dad passed away a year ago. So it's like, I'm just kind of
got her close to me that way. Can keep an eye on her. He passed away recently. Yeah. And last
March. Yeah. Yeah. That was tough, man. Like I, that's not, um, not this is something that you
gotta learn. How old was he? He was 79 and, and you know, it's, it's really odd because, you know,
he was very, very active mobile. Like I was just about to say he'd love to drive a semi, right?
Like he sat a CDL as whole. Like never lost a CDL. So, you know, they would, they would drive
trucks back then and, and, you know, in between after they got rid of the picking and hauling
business, they would drive a truck and come to my racist. Like that's, they helped us with the
business when we, when we started the, the, you know, the Xfinity series at that time, they,
they drove the truck. Like my dad, my dad drove the truck for, um, for the trucks deal, the Canaan
deal every now and then. Um, and then some for the, for the Xfinity deal. So it was, you know,
they, they were just a part, I tried to have them around as much as I could. And, um, that was a lot
of fun. And, and, you know, I think in 2020, um, I had a chance to buy the, the shop that, you know,
I grew up in that the race team was, my super late team was run out of. And my problem with my dad
is if I bought it, he just stayed there and been working all the time. And I wanted him to come
up here cause just going to have been fortunate. We, we've got property up here and we got, you
know, an extra place or two. And, and, um, I wanted him to come up and spend more time with me
like during the race season. So it, uh, you know, it's kind of like we sold that. So we don't have
that race shop anymore. Um, we still have our, my original home to when I was, I was raised in.
We have it. It's not going anywhere. We have, we have family land. Um, it's not mine. And it's
my aunt and uncles and my mom and dads. Um, we have that. And they actually acquired that. And I
think their grandparents got it or their great grandparents for like seven, seven acre and
1850 in central Florida. Right. So it's pretty wild to have that. And that stuff's not going
anywhere like that. That'll be, that'll be in the family forever. So, um, you know, that was,
that was all good. And then, you know, it's, it was, I'm really fortunate that I was able to,
you know, have things go the way they did end up starting to cup team and, and, you know,
things working out and, and being in a position to have my parents up here during race season,
and they would stay a house, stay in a house up here on the property we bought. We bought
Holster, Queensland's old place. Who? Holster, Queensland's old place. So we, we got it. And
it has a, you know, a couple of extra houses on it. And, um, they would come up there and
stay and, and we had a lot of fun. And, you know, like I said, it's, it's, you know, it sucks
losing, losing them, but it's, uh, you know, you just got to look at what we did together and,
and what all, um, you know, he did, you know, for me, it's just unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, uh,
it's something that all of us know we're going to have to go through at some point
and none of us can really get prepared for losing a parent. Um, and we have to kind of
make the best of it, uh, you know, and, and to your point, like move forward, um,
the, I want to kind of go back to getting your feet wet in, in the truck series, um, was the,
you know, what was so challenging about that, you know, compared to coming out of super late
models you'd had to be mastered, you know, you could be, you could be, you could be competitive.
Anytime anybody, myself included gets in one of the top three levels of NASCAR trucks didn't
exist for me back in the nineties, but, um, you know, it was humbling and tough and you're like,
man, I'm, I think I'm in a pretty decent car here. I can't do the things that these other
guys are doing with it. Like you'd watch, you know, Jeff Burton and Mark Martin on restarts,
the initial start of the race, it was, I'd be, I'd start like 15th and watch Mark Martin and Jeff
Burton at the initial start of a race at Michigan and just being all of how they could just knife
through the field like it, like it was nothing. Yep. And, and that is why I have never stopped
trying because I have so much respect and I'm just mind blown. Every time I get in one of these races,
right? Like it's just, it is, it is unbelievable what the people that are lucky enough to get to
do this every single week, what they're capable of. And, and, and that time you're right. Like
Mark Martin, legend, you know, Jeff Burton, like same issues. These people, they're so good at
what they do. And I think, you know, for me, I remember practice, the first truck race I ever
ran, I pull up to, they, you know, luckily, I was, I was, it was basically like a, a fifth germane
truck, right? Like it was a Chevrolet, but it was, it was, you know, it was set up out of their shop.
They had clearance to do it. And it was, it was a really good truck. And, you know, I remember
they worked very well organized. They had me first to go out to practice. So the back thing,
you didn't have to wait to get in line. You just, just whoever wanted to go went, right? So
they have me first. And I pull up there and I'm like, man, all right, this is good. I got
clean track run out there and just, you know, try to get a little hole and, and Ron Hornaday
pulls up behind me and Todd Bodine pulls up next to him. And I'm like, no way. Like this is not
good. So I tried to get away from them, couldn't get away from them. They, they passed me and
ran off from me about half a straight away and probably three laps. Like, I mean, it was so,
it wasn't mind blowing because I expected it, but it's like so, you know, it's like a very,
you know, big, like just jolt that you're like, wow, this is, this is real. Right. Yeah. And it
just took me a little bit to get up to speed and, and, you know, figure it out. Cause there's no
ride around and warm up your tires and, you know, do the late model stuff, right? Like it's,
it's literally catch fourth gear and get off in the one or, you know, three coming on,
that coming off turn two. So it's like, it just, it was really an awesome feeling that I'll never
forget getting, getting to see them too and, and pull out there and, and, and made great
progression over the weekend and ended up finishing and I'm finished 17th, no, 17th lead lap. So
I was pretty happy with that. Yeah. You just clean car and we were trying to take that truck
to Phoenix to do the approval process. Right. I had to go to Phoenix and it's like, I couldn't
wreck it. So I was like, you know, the restarts at Martinsville with, you know, 20 to go and
there were several of them. I'm like, all right, just take care of it. So without thinking about
taking care of the truck, no doubt I finished top 10. Right. So yeah, we, we were in position to do
that, but it was, um, you know, just had to be way too conservative and, and, uh, you know, it was,
it was a lot of fun getting to, getting to do that. Yeah. You, um, made your Xfinity series
debut in 2015 with Rick Royer. I saw Rick this weekend at, at Nashville, um, had some break
problems, uh, ran, you, you ran a lot even in trucks with SS green light, MBM, uh, different teams.
Um, you made your cup series debut in 2015. So to recap truck series debut in 2010 ran some
truck races part time, um, a couple of Xfinity starts and then right into the cup series
circle sport at New Hampshire. Um, and then you set out for a full-time Xfinity series campaign
in 16 driving with your own team where, um, a lot of guys come in and, and if they're fortunate get
these little spot starts, but they're, they're always like thinking I'm gonna get, I'm gonna keep
trying to get these opportunities and I'm gonna land hopefully in a good ride. You want to drive
for yourself. Like what was, what triggered that? You know, I think we were, you know, I've thought,
I've thought about that a lot to answer it myself and it's like, you know, I really believe that
it was more about making sure the business was going to succeed and I was the best one to take
care of the business. Like just making sure that I was in the car and, and getting the most out of
whatever equipment we had, right? And then taking care of it, number one, to keep paying payroll
and make sure we didn't go out of business. And at the same time, you know, proven that it was a
solid team to come, you know, get experience driving for, right? At a, at a, you know, a good,
a good budget for, for where we're at now in the series. So, you know, I never, I always wanted
to, to go drive a competitive car. And I mean, looking back, it's like, I could have done it,
you know, 15 or 20 times at least, you know, money-wise, like walked up and said, because the
thing is you, you can't just take money and buy a ride in this, in this, you know, these top three
levels. Like you have to, you have, people will have to want you there too, right? Like it's not,
it's, yes, it takes money, but you have to have relationships with the teams and the owners and
and the people that work there. Like there's, there's a lot of that. And I have that. I have,
I have a network in every single race team in this, in this, you know, in this sport, right?
So, you know, I think that it was more, I just got so focused on making sure that the business
was successful that I really stopped thinking about me as the driver and focused on that. And I,
and I, you know, I, I did the cup deal in 2015 because I was rushing. I didn't want to not get
to drive one with more horsepower, right? Cause I knew they were doing the horsepower drop and I
was like, I'm like, man, I just want to drive. Like I had to test for, um, uh, furniture row at
Pike's Peak in 2000, it was 2010. And I got to drive a thousand horsepower motor close to a thousand,
right? And, and it was like, it was just incredible, right? It was one of the funnest things I ever
did. And, and then, you know, with, with seeing how the trend was going, where the horsepower is
getting less and less, I was like, I want to make sure I get at least one cup start. And, and, you
know, another thing was, was you and, and Tony and, and Jeff and everybody was, was there in
15, right? And it's like, I, you know, Tony had already announced, you know, it was going to retire
and, and, you know, you just, there was like a shift in, in, you know, people, legends, people
that I'd watched growing up. And, and I was like, I just want to get on the track with them one time,
right? And it was like, that was, that was another thing behind the start in 2015, even
though I knew I was going to run last or next to last, whatever. I was like, I just want to get
out there and go do it, right? And see what it's like. So, you know, we actually had a decent,
we were okay that day for, for what we had and, and had a lot of fun. But, you know, I think,
you know, to start the XFINITY team in 2016, Jessica and I borrowed money. Like we weren't,
it wasn't just our money, right? So, you know, we, I just felt like I had such an obligation to
make sure that that all went correctly. And I didn't, I would never spend the penny on me
driving for someone else, even though I had cash flow. And at times I could have easily wrote,
you know, a hundred thousand dollar check to drive somewhere. I just, I didn't ever,
being in business as long as I've been in business, there's, there's always good times,
there's always bad times. And I wanted to make sure I never got into a position
that I couldn't service the loan that I had or, or, you know, take care of the people that took
care of me because they all took a chance on Jessica and I and the racing business, which,
you know, as well as I do, it's very wild to take those chances.
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You talked about buying Hutts old shop and you did all this in September of 2021.
And you started, you started McLeod Acres, McLeod. Yeah. We named it McLeod Acres.
There's a huge indoor RC track. Yeah. What is that? So I love RC cars. I love anything.
There was already one there or you built it? No, he had a party barn. And it was a really cool
party barn. Had booths everywhere, dance floor, disco booth, like a DJ booth. I mean, he had
something. You'd never think that about Hutts. No, but the parties I've been told they had out
there are insane. And I was trying to figure out what to do with it. And I was actually the guy
that was helping me at the time we were standing in it. And I was like, we both love RC cars.
And, you know, he was kind of the caretaker for the property. And I was like, you know,
I built an outdoor track and I actually built it next to my house, which did not make Jessica
happy because it was a clay track and the dirt, whatever things weren't quite right would go
on the house. So, you know, I invited people over and, you know, like, I get Justin Haley come over
some and, you know, there's several people that come over and race, you know, the RC cars with
us on the clay track outside, but it rained would ever now and then mess up our plans. And I was
like, you know what? If we put a race track in here, we don't have to worry about the rain.
That's literally when the idea was born. And I told Jeff was the guy helping me at the time. I
was like, what do you think about RC track in here? He's like, dude, if you do that, it'd be
awesome. And I was like, go crank up the tractor. And I'm not kidding. It cranked up the tractor.
I jumped in it and I drove right through the building started ripping stuff out. So that's
how the RC track was born at our property. Is it a clay indoor track? No, concrete.
Concrete. We did. We banked flat, flat, flat, slick. It's, you know, it's not super slick, but
it's, you know, it's about a five and a half second lap track, which is pretty,
pretty comparable to like any of your, your, you know, RC meets or anything. You need a professional
track. So we did that and we set up 10 work stations. Everybody's got their own individual
place to work, all the tools. And it's, it's pretty cool. Yeah. I was in RC cars for quite a
while. We had a, when I was racing with Tony senior and Tony junior with the bud cars, we had a
bunch of RC cars that we were messing with, gas powered stuff. You know, I know, I know that
you know, Leonard Wood built some pretty special cars and I had a couple of them, but we did
quarter scales for a while. Yeah. I haven't got the quarter scale is something I haven't got to yet,
but I'm, I'm definitely I like the quarter scale stuff because it's slow and you drive it and
it's got, you know, this, everything's just larger. So it kind of, you can kind of watch the car
funk, you know, function handle, you know, and you can change things and watch it like do what
you want it to do. And it drives and it runs at a bit of a slower pace. So you're kind of like,
feel like you're really more driving it than trying to like the sum of the like 10th and 12th
scale stuff is like just driving a missile on the ground. The smallest thing I want to drive is
eight scale and I prefer fifth like I'm the same. Those guys that drive the little 10th scale, which
I have some 10 scale stuff, but you know, it's, I put eight scale bodies on them. So it's a little
bit easier to work with some of the 10th and even smaller 12th scale stuff. It's like that the talent
they have driving those things as fast as they go. Like it's, it's just not for normal. It's just
not for normal people. And I'm a normal, I'm a normal person. I just want to have fun. It doesn't
entertain me because you're basically just trying not to destroy it. And it's just so it's
they're going so fast. I set it up to where the one thing I'd learn about RC cars is they're too
much money whenever you get serious, right? And I made it to where like, if you want to come drive
one of my RC cars, you literally just come and drive it, right? Like it's all current. Every
station has its own car. You just pick it up, put batteries in it, go play. I have my own part shop.
I have every single part made tracks of slash and that's going to be the best part of the show.
Keeper learning this about you. It's fun and it is not expensive. Like it's a very low cost
thing to do. You rebranded your race team to Live Fast Motorsports in 2021.
Before we get to the cup side of you purchasing the charter with Matt Tiff,
one of the things I wanted to talk about was when you were running your
um, Xfinity program, uh, you know, our cars, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll crack a quarter panel or
chip a court, you know, chip offender or whatever. And, and our guys are pretty particular. Um,
their teams like yours would take those panels and get enough handful of races out of them.
I actually walked into the lobby one day as you were coming out with a quarter panel or a couple
parts in your hands. Um, and I had no idea that you were even over here. Did you know I owed you
money? No, I didn't think you did. I was like, I went to, uh, Bummy, uh, that manages our program
and he's like, Oh yeah, BJ comes by every now and then picks up the cuff things. Um, and so
what that, what my mind immediately went to was like, you know, I, I don't, I see you,
I see you show up to the track, unload your race cars. You're my, you're maybe driving one,
maybe you're not, but you got one or two, three cars in the field and they go out there and they
race and they go home. And that's all I'd see. And when I, when, when they are, when I, when I
now know in the moment that your boots on the ground, going around and, and, and, and getting,
you know, bargain parts and things like that. And you were literally itemizing the entire process
of your race team. Um, I felt like that was really profound because the, there's not a,
there's a lot of people that want to be here. There's a lot of guys that want to race cars
in this series and in NASCAR in general, there ain't many people that want to do that much work
to be there. Um, I was really, really impressed just with your, um, because literally, I didn't seem
like you had to do it. Like you could, you could, you've, you created a business that was successful.
You left it in Florida. You had your family had a business. Um, but here you are. Um,
you know, Nicollin diming and, and, and, and shuffling this to make this, to, to add this,
to put this here. You're like itemizing and, and like literally going to get a quarter panel
that you're one of your cars needs or can use. Um, I was really, really impressed by that.
Why was that? Why, you know, and you seem like you were enjoying it. Absolutely. That grind
of, you know, I, I would, I would compare it to like the Dave Marcus of, of NASCAR. Like Dave
was a talented race car driver, but he probably enjoyed running his own race team out of his
own shop more than he ever did driving for anybody else. He had other rides with Ray Mock and, um,
drove for KK Dodge for a while and different teams drove for Penske for a while,
but I bet he probably enjoyed being able to drive, build, run and operate his own race car
more than anything. Um, Bobby Allison did that often. You know, he'd get disgruntled, not,
not enjoy working for a race team. We're driving for an owner and he'd go home. I'll go race my own
car and there's the, the independence, like the JD McDuffie's, the Jimmy Means and nobody gets to
see how hard those guys are working because the camera's not on them. Does nobody's, you know,
the camera's on. They learn hard. They're a wall truck, but I was, my best friend Brad means his
dad Jimmy would, was an independent and I would hang out with Brad and I'd hang out in their
hauler and I'd see what they had and I'd hang out in dad's hauler and see what he had and it was
extract. It was a very stark difference and you seemed to enjoy that challenge of making payroll,
running the business, keeping it in the green and figuring out how to put the best race car you could
on the racetrack doing all of those things. Um, talk about that process because I think that process
is what leads you to your cup team. Oh, there's no doubt. Without it, we would have never had a
cup team and then it goes back to Alan Quickie. Um, you know, 90 to 93 wins, wins championship
and I watched Alan. I mean, I was a huge fan kid, right? But fan and I watched him do that and I felt
like, you know, he wasn't turning every wrench, but he knew how to, right? And it's like,
it's his own team and he went and won a cup series championship, right? And it's like,
I had that in my head and then I, I was actually never a fan of Dale Singer until probably about
98 or 99. And I, um, I was, you know, I was a Jeff Gordon kid whenever I was, you know, at that time.
And, um, I've really started to pay attention to Dale Singer. Um, you know, maybe 97, right?
Like basically when I started super late models, it's when I really started watching him and,
and seeing what he was doing and, and really the way he did, you know, owning a car and driving
for a really good team and winning. I was like, wow, like that's, that's, and this is me as a
kid. I'm 15, probably 14. And I'm thinking about that. I'm like, if I could ever get there,
own cars, cause then it's, it's like, it keeps the business side of me intrigued, right? And then
drive and have a chance to win. That's like, to me, the, the best case scenario for what I want.
There's, there's drivers that want to go drive and win and go home, right? I'm not that guy.
Like I want to think about business from, you know, whenever I get up, whenever time that is,
to honestly, I enjoy it till I go to bed. I won't let, you know, business conversation or,
or things we're working on change mine and Jessica's relationship because we do a lot of it together.
But it's, you know, it's something that I enjoy. If I'm by myself, I would prefer to be thinking
about a business or something to do to make money than anything else. It's just what I like. So I,
you know, I thought at that time I was like, wow, I just, you know, hopefully I could end up owning
a team and driving for someone else. And, and ultimately achieve that. I just didn't get the
wins on track that I wanted. But, you know, ultimately I did drive for myself, help get that
team going. And once, once, you know, PJ McCall Motorsports was going good and Xfinity and,
you know, we had drivers in every car and bills are paid. And, and honestly, we were kind of
comfortable. Johnny Davis said, Hey, you want to drive my car? And I was like, I'd love to.
And it was just one weekend. And then I drove like 70 some races for him. Right. And it's like,
most fun I've had was getting the drive for him and then watch my cars, race my cars and have
just a small sample of what Dale Singer did. Right. Like it just, it was, to me, it was the
best time in my career getting to do that. And, and Johnny Davis is another one. Like you,
there is nobody that could outwork that guy. Right. Like he wasn't a driver at this level,
but team owner wise, you couldn't, you couldn't beat his work ethic. Right. And, and it's like
getting a drive for him and, and run on scuff tires and share a pit crew and finish 19th
in the Xfinity series. We had a run of like 18 top 20s, right? In 2018 or 19. And, you know,
to do that was a win for me. Like I didn't have a trophy, but it was like, this is,
this is kind of, this is exactly what I was trying to do. Right. So that was, you know, the,
the, all of that was all what laid the groundwork to think about a cup team. You know, and I,
I'm not one that I've never would ever take lightly what the cup series means. And, and
I know how hard it is. Like I'm, I've been here, you know, a decade plus, um, in cup and, and it's,
you know, I, I know whenever we had the opportunity when COVID came and, and everything was, you
know, just everything was all over the place. Um, you know, we were going to start racing,
like, you know, three or four times a week, you know, to try and make up races. And I had a really
good relationship with Rick Ware and, and he had, you know, he had, I don't know how many charters
he owned at that time, but it was like, you just knit with him. He's always pulling something cool
off. So I, uh, all I remember is he told me, he's like, Hey, you know, if, if I, you know, if I
ran into the equipment, would you want to, you know, do your own thing for a little bit? And I
was like, yeah, I said, we'll, we'll do it. We got an infrastructure. We bought our shop, the one we
just sold and moved over here closer to you. Um, we bought that in 2017. And, and, um, I was like,
we got the shop, we got the equipment. I had three or four federal light haulers. Like we
built up pretty well. And, um, I was like, okay, I was like, we'll, we'll go try a couple open races
and, um, you know, make sure that it's something that we want to do that grind. Cause I mean,
the cup grind is, it's something else that it's very hard to understand until you're there. And
I, um, you know, I told, I told Rick, I was like, yeah, if you'll help us, we'll, we'll go do it. So
we, uh, we went to, I believe Darlington was our first ever race with actually BJ McClaw Motorsports
at that time in the cup series. And, um, we went and ran the race and you had an okay, okay day
for us. I mean, you're normally wrong. We're six laps down. I don't remember, but it was, you know,
for what we could do and where the cup series is at at that time, it was an okay day. So we did
that. We ran, I don't know, a handful of races that the rest of 2020 as an open team. And, and
I, um, I just knew that, you know, just gonna actually toss around the idea of trying to buy a
charter in 2016. I actually have a text on my phone that I went back and looked at
after we bought the charter that was sent out to, you know, try to inquire about buying a charter
then, and it just didn't work and, and, you know, didn't, didn't, you know, work, didn't come together.
So, you know, I thought it was funny when we actually bought the charter in 2020. Um, I thought
it was funny to look back at that and see that we were trying back then. How did Matt Tiff come into
the conversation? So Matt, we started driver development in the super late model series
after I won the World Series in 2010 and I wanted to go try trucks. We had all this infrastructure
and we sold, I think two of the late models, but I probably had at that time I owned two or three
myself and a guy I drove for had three. So we sold a couple to buy the truck, we kept the rest,
and we started driver development team. So Matt Tiff was the second driver I ever had for the
driver development team and his dad actually, you know, it's, he was one of them that helped us
start the Xfinity program, you know, when we needed, we needed help getting that going. And,
and, um, you know, I was with, I was, I was friends with Matt since 2010. And I mean, he's,
he's, I think 13 at the time. And, you know, we, um, you know, fast forward to 2020 and
we're, we're talking about this charter thing and, and, you know, he's, I don't know, he's
probably 20 something. I don't, I can't remember, but anyway, the point is we were friends the whole
time. And, and I was close to his family and we, and him and his dad and I had done business together
already. And I, um, you know, Matt, unfortunately had a seizure. I think it was the end of 2019 at
Martinsville. I believe that was when he had a seizure and it, it derailed his driving career,
right? And, you know, he's still trying to figure out what direction he wanted to go and
what he was going to do. And didn't know when he'd be able to drive again, like all this stuff,
just, I mean that and COVID and everything is just up in the air. And I was at a movie theater
with Matt and Dover. And I, um, I told him when we walked out, I was like, dude, we should just buy
a charter together. I'll turn the, I said it just like that. And he's like, yeah, that sounds like
it'd be cool. And I was like, all right. So anyway, we kind of tabled it, right? And then, um, you
know, fast forward, all that happens 2020, we go try the open deal for a little bit. And I was like,
okay, this is something I want to go after. I don't know that we'll ever be able to make anything
of it, but I want to give it a shot, right? And that's when I really started trying to do the,
get the charter was, was right after that. And that's how he was a part of it because I had a
relationship with his dad already. And, and Matt was looking for a business to be a part of because,
you know, his driving career just got derailed.
You turn the wrench. You call the shots. When you want the right parts that are the right fit,
there's only one choice. GM genuine parts and AC Delco original equipment designed, engineered,
tested and backed by General Motors. You bought half of a charter. We all attempted 28 cup events.
Um, you know, the y'all would end up selling the charter to Spire in 2023.
Looked like just a brilliant decision, not only just to buy the charter, but then to flip it
where, you know, when you, when you own the charter, are you, you know, you're watching values
change and you're hearing all the conversations around what's going on.
Where was there hesitation to sell it? Not only because the values are going up,
but also, you know, you're, you're where you've, you've, it's your foundation. It's, it's,
it's everything your cup teams built on. Yeah. Well, so it comes back to, you know,
if you go back to bar and money to start the Xenity team, right? To the point of
having an asset that's worth the money we saw, right? It's, it was never hesitation.
Like we needed to solidify that we had won the, the owners, you know, the, the owners business side,
you know, like it was making that transaction made sure that we were always successful in
racing as a business, right? And that's, that was the part that made it, you know, we never
hesitated to sell it. Once the values were there, genuinely Matt and I's, you know, Joe Falk, Jessica,
everybody's intention when we bought the charter, we totally believe in a hundred million plus
at some point we did and always have. And, and I, you know, I actually think it's here right now,
but we believed it was a 10 to 20 year, you know, run to get there, right? Like we,
we genuinely thought we were going to struggle and fight and do everything we had done in Xenity and,
and work to be here for two decades and then sell for nine figures. Like we genuinely believe that
was a real business plan. And, you know, I think when we fire off in 2021 and we had an average
finish 28th and we're out running five cars every week. And I honestly, that's pretty good for me,
right? That was for our own team and the cup series. Like you're doing well. I mean, we're
out qualifying some really good teams every week. Like, I mean, it just, it was, it was really fun
the first year. And then, you know, we were super excited for the next gen car and, and
still a huge fan of the next gen car. But bottom line is it made it to where this, we just,
it brought the attention to the sport that progressed the sport so quick and a short amount
of time that the chargers went from being what they were worth when we bought them to this massive
amount of money in 24 months, right? And when that all happened coupled with, we actually struggled
to get up to the speed with more with the next gen car than we did with the gen six car, because
I had a decades and a half worth of, you know, friends with the next gen six car. It was easier
for us to be fast. The next gen car, my friends didn't even know what was going to be quick.
Like everybody, everybody was, you know, just like I saw Danny do an interview and he's like,
the circle was so big. He's right. Like it, it was, the circle was huge that first year of,
of, you know, disparity between the cars because everybody's trying new stuff. And, and the cars
are changing at the same time, like just working out bugs. So, you know, that made 2022 not much
fun. Honestly, we didn't run as well as I wanted 2023. We spent more money. We actually spent
millions more than we have ever spent. And we run worse average wise, right? And that's something
I'm not about. Like I, if I don't show, I could sit here for 20 years with one spot of progression
every year and I can live with that. Right. But when we worked harder, spent more money and went
backwards, I'm out. Like I had zero hesitation on getting rid of it whenever. Fortunately,
the business plan did work out, even though the on track side didn't, right? So that's,
there was zero hesitation. The driver in me, the, the person that loves going to the race track
every week and, and seeing, you know, our NASCAR family, like that was hard. But I was wondering,
that was kind of my next question is like, you know, when you sell the charter, you're selling
your opportunity to be in the field. And that definitely changed how many races you would attempt,
right? But you also said, I want to race, but I'm going to only race now that I have the opportunity.
I'm going to, I'm going to race in better cars. Yes. And, and we saw that you qualified really
well for the Daytona 500 this year and was running really well in the race till you had an issue.
And that was heartbreaking. So, so gut-wrenching. Yeah. Like, you know what that race means. And
it's like, it's for me, it's just, would you arguably say that that was, would, would you
argue that that might be the best competitive car you've been in? Yeah, we didn't qualify for the
race. We, we had our best qualifying effort, right? But, you know, I fire off in the dual and I'm
running 30% throttle and I have zero interest or zero problem passing people, which we're all saving
fuel. But I'm just saying you're still, so when, when I went up and led in 2024, I thought I had a
good car. I was almost 100% throttle, right? Like it still wasn't that good of a car. Now, you know,
to go to February this year, and I'm literally looked down at Dash and I'm 30% throttle for,
for the majority of the dual. And I'm just moving around and it's comfortable and easy to drive. And
I'm like, man, like this is some good, like we've definitely made some good progressions. And then
go to go to Atlanta the next week. And you know, we fired off a little too free, definitely on
the right rear too much and, and just kind of struggled to the first stop. We go to the first
stop and, and made just, made killer adjustments come out and drove from last to 23rd or 22nd.
And it was not hard. Like I'm telling you, like I'm driving the car and I'm like,
this is like comfortable. Like I'm never comfortable. My NASCAR career, I have less than
a handful of times that I'm in a car and I'm not scared half to death that I'm going to be out of
control. Right. So it's like, it's, uh, it was funny to be at that level, you know, racing with
the cup guys and, and being up in the mix and it actually was, was more comfortable. It was easier
than what I normally do. So we have, you know, developed our equipment very well and, and the
information we get and the things we have. And that is, that is for sure progressed, but
you know, obviously falling out of the 500, something you can't get over, man, you just
never go when you're going to have a chance to run that race. And we got gifted into it.
And then we, we lost the opportunity and that, that's hard. Yeah. The, when you sold the charter,
I wasn't sure what to expect out of you. I wasn't sure what I, what if the team would exist? What
that's the question, I guess, is like where I live fast continues. You've had, uh, you know,
multiple drivers drive the car since the charter sale. Uh, Catherine legs ran a lot of races.
Y'all had a great run at Indy last year. Um, and she's done a fantastic job. Uh, so what present,
you know, what, what, how did those opportunities come about? Like what, when you, when you're
sitting there in January, do you know what the game plan is? Do you have the year mapped out?
Or does your year sort of materialize over the course of the season?
So it kind of changes every year. It's, it's, so 2020, when we, when we sold the charter in 2023,
yes, January 1st, I knew everything I was going to do. I wasn't going to, you know,
put anybody else in the car. I was going to drive it myself, see where we're at without a
charter and without some of the connection we had, um, you know, see what we can do. And,
you know, our second race, we go lead, right? Which I know it's fuel mileage and their savings
and everything, but you still have to be in a cup series to be able to lead the laps, right? So
we, you know, we, we had a great 24 in my opinion. And the plan the whole time was to just see where
we were as an open team and we're, you know, how are we going to, how are we going to, as a sports
progressing, can we stay with the field, right? Cause it was hard when we had the charter. So
24 was just about that with the goal. Let me ask you, you're also racing without the guaranteed
money from the charter. Oh yeah. That's a big difference. It's huge. Yeah. It takes you, we
lose money every time we go to the track. Well, how do you make, how do you, how do you pay your
bills? Build, build businesses that pay for it. Okay. That's, that's the plan. What businesses
was our first one? So we actually own a, an Alpine coaster in Pigeon Forge right now. We're
part owners. We have partners over there. But basically when we sold the charter in 2023,
Jessica and I said we were going to take a couple months off and we took off exactly about six days
of not thinking about something and, and realizing we didn't have to, and we were down there. We got
a lake house in Florida and we were down there and we're sitting on the back porch and her and I
are both like, she's like, we got to find the next business. And I'm like, I agree. Like this is
just boring. So I always started talking. I knew I had this, I have a friend in Pigeon Forge. So
he's been there for 30, 40 years and his son drove for me in an Xfinity in 2017, Blake Jones.
So Teddy Jones is dad. So I've, Jessica and I, Jessica drug me over to Pigeon Forge in December
of 2020, really to have an interest in going over there, but didn't know anything about it.
And I went over there and I was like, man, this place is awesome. Like it just Pigeon Forge,
Gatlinburg's a marvel. It is an unbelievable, great area. Yeah. It's just, it's like the
Vegas of the East coast without gambling, right? Like you just, anything you want to do is there
and it's fun. It's family oriented and just a really good time. So she got me over there. Well,
then I got addicted to it and about a cabin and a little bit of property over there. And
we started going more regularly. Then we started seeing Teddy again, because, you know,
he was in that area and, and just basically sell the charter, try to figure out where could we
take some capital and start something that's different. And this goes back to what I said
earlier about being in central Florida with the theme parks and, and realizing that I can never
afford to do one of those, but really having a passion for seeing people get off a ride and be
happy. Like you just, you either see somebody puking or they're happy. Like that's the two
things you're going to get. You never see somebody mad and upset, right? And that's what I told Jessica
was like, we can afford to own something in Pigeon Forge. Like let's, let's call Teddy and
figure out something to own that makes people happy. Right? And I called Teddy, the only person,
I had probably 40 people call me, want me to start businesses and do stuff with them and
whatever after we sold the charter. And Teddy's the only one that Jessica and I called. And I was
like, Hey, Jessica and I, you know, we've got a little bit of capital to work with. I was like,
we, we really want to own something fun in Pigeon Forge that people get off and they're
smiling. Right? And I was like, I don't know if that's a go cart track, if that's a putt-putt golf,
if that's, you know, a coaster. I said, I'd really like it to be a coaster, but I don't know,
you know, I don't know if we can pull that off. And he's like, yeah, he's like, I built one
three years ago and he's like, I could, I could build us another one. And I was like, okay,
well, let's, let's, let's work towards that. So he called me in two weeks with a plan and we just
happened to be in town and he come over and this is no joke drew out like his idea of the track
on a napkin. Okay. He had another napkin with like budget numbers and he had another napkin with
what he thought it might produce. And we, we, he's like, what do you think? And I was like,
I said, my instant answer is yes, but I've learned in business, I always wait 24 hours. Like, I don't,
I'll never make a big decision, which honestly is six to seven figures or higher without, you know,
sleeping on. I like to know how I'll feel when I wake up, because that'll give me the true feel
of where I'm going to head and whether he's going to be successful or not, because I'll be able to
measure my determination and my drive behind it when I wake up the next day. Right. So woke up,
I said, I'm going to call you by nine o'clock, but I said, you know, I feel like he's going to be a
yes. And I called him about seven 30 and a seven 30 the next morning. And I said, if you'll do it,
we're in. And so we built the Pigeon Forge Racing Coasters, but open June 19th will be a year and
it's a successful thanks to all the great people that come over to Pigeon Forge and enjoy the area
and come ride our coaster. It's, it's doing well and it's been a lot of fun. And now I get to say,
I can't own the theme park, but I own one ride. Yeah. It's in Pigeon. Yeah. So one of the, one of
the things we're looking at it right here. Yeah, absolutely. One of the, one of my stipulations
for doing it was I would not settle for not being on the parkway. Like I'm a tourist. Okay. I was,
I've owned probably the main road. I don't know at what point I don't become a tourist because
I've owned property over there for five years now. So I'm kind of ready to drop the tourist name, but
I told them from the beginning, I'm like, just can hire our visitors over here. Like we, we know
what people want because we are those people, right? And I just, for me, the traffic gets really
bad over there because there's so many people enjoy it. I was like, I don't want anything if it's not
on the parkway. Like I, and the parkways, you know, it spans from Severeville through Pigeon
Forge all the way to Gatlinburg. And I am, I was like, we got to find a spot on the parkway. So
that's what took a little bit of time. And that's when he called me and he said, Hey,
I've got a person that I think will sell if you're willing to move forward. And we can, we can buy
this property, take down this attraction that's here now and build a coaster. And that's what we
did. So we're right on the parkway. As you're leaving, if you're headed, if you're headed towards
Gatlinburg, as you're leaving Pigeon Forge, we're the last attraction on the right on the parkway.
What do you do in the winter? Yes. So they ride. It's more of a challenge, man. You have it cold
plunged cold. Yeah. But it operational 24 hours or 24 or 200 or 365 days a year. Yes. Yes. We're open
360 365 days a year. And it's all lit up neat and cool at night. If, if it's, yeah, the night that's
really cool. So there's two, there's two, like my favorite thing being an Ascar driver, obviously
I get my speed fixed with, with everything we do, right? So for me, the coaster itself is more about
the view and just enjoying a good time with whoever you're over there with, right? So it's not about
the speed. The view we have is incredible. You have a 360 degree view. It's, you see mountains,
you see the parkway and you have to do it during the day and at night because the view during the
day is so much different than the view at night, right? And it's a, it's just a lot of fun to,
to visit it and, and go over there and, and ride it at night, see the lights and then ride it during
the day and see the mountains, right? So that's a, it's been a lot of fun to be a part of that.
And, you know, that was the first thing we did when we sold the charter as the first thing we
jumped into. Really? Yeah. So will you build more of those? So Teddy and I and, and other partners,
we've, we've talked about doing a couple of different towns and I think that it's in the future.
I don't have nothing set in stone now, but I just love that the thing is like it's so hard to do
anything that's affordable. Like the economy's taken off and inflation and everything. And it's
like, you can expensive to build things. Yeah. And it's expensive to go enjoy them, right? And,
and it's like, we've got, you know, right now you come over there, four people ride for a hundred
bucks and get extra rides for less money. It's like, it's for, for what it is and enjoyment,
you get out of it in the pictures and, and the experience. It's a lot for $25 a person, right?
And it's like, you know, you can't go to a movie theater and spend less than $25 a person anymore.
Like it's, if you get a drink snack and a ticket and I just, I really love that business model.
And I, I definitely, let me tell you this, I'm gonna own another one. There's no doubt. It's
just a matter of when, what timing, like when it's right. But will you ever own another charter?
I, you know, I would own part of one. Okay. Like I, I don't want to part better than a full
because, because the cup series, unfortunately has a billionaire sport now, not a millionaires,
right? And I'm not a billionaire. We just simply can't afford it, right? Like it's,
it's to run every week and own a charter and do it correctly. I feel like for my personal,
where I'm at in life and the things I've done, I don't want to be there unless I can try to compete.
And then truthfully, that's only top 20, right? Like once you're in the top 20 and cup,
I believe the next week you could win, right? Like it's that, it's that close now, right? So,
you know, I, I just know that Jessica and I aren't wealthy enough to, to be competitive. And I,
But you'll run an open car part time. Yes. And that makes me, that makes more financial sense.
It does. It's, it's because it's a number one. I, you know, when you get fortunate enough to
have something go right, like we did. And you're in a position to say, what do I want to do with,
you know, however many years I got left? Like you just don't know, life's a gift, right? So
I want to race, man. And I love NASCAR. I just love, I love the people. I love the sport. I love
the things that go back and forth and everything we try to figure out. And it's just a fun way
of life for me. Like that's, that's where I'm at. So I want to be in it, whatever, whatever I can
afford to do. And to me, the cup car at the speedways and, and thankfully Atlanta's the way it
is. I know I love the old Atlanta too, but right now I kind of need it this way for me. So I got
a couple extra races to go to. So it's like those races, we can go and we can stay on the lead lap
and you just never know. And it's a, it's a lot of fun to do that. So, you know, that's, that's,
that's why we keep after that. And I, you know, the infrastructure is there to, you know, we,
we just bought the new building over here close to you guys. We actually bought the
building next to it. I don't think anybody even knows that. It's like, we've, we've got enough
square footage now that, you know, we could absolutely be a part of a chartered one single
cup team again. It's just, I don't want to do it unless it's the right partner. I know,
I know what it takes and I don't want to go back and do it the way I did it, or even,
you know, struggling the way we do now to run as an open team. We, we qualify a third from last
and have to accept that, right? Like it's, it's not going to get better. Like we,
as an open team, we're going to qualify around that area every time, but our racing can get better
and it is shown over time. We're getting better. So, and the biggest thing is I have a passion for
working with other drivers and still trying to be a driver. I do truly enjoy that and getting to
work with Catherine last year. And the original plan, like you said, after, after we did the,
the Pigeon Ford racing coaster, we're like, okay, what do we do for racing to stay a part of that
and not eat in the capital that we have? And it's like, okay, let's work on the
driver development stuff. Let's work on people that have partners that want to work with us and,
and find a hole. And it's like, we talked about trucks and we talked about Xfinity again.
And I was like, we already have millions and cup, we didn't sell any of the cup stuff. We
sold the charter. So we didn't, we have everything. We have, we've got enough equipment right now
to run two Xfinity teams, a truck team and a cup team. Like we, we still have all that. So I,
I, you know, I told Jessica, I was like, I just feel like me, the driver understands the Delta
right now between an Xfinity car and a cup car. And even the truck series, the Xfinity series and
the cup series, right? Like it's just, you know, the cup series is just over here. Like in, and
used to you get out of an Xfinity car and you kind of feel comfortable in a cup car. Like I used to,
I used to do those weekends, run Xfinity, then run cup, you know, do it. I did trucks too. I did
all three, a lot of weekends, but it's, you know, it would always make you better and always make
you just, it just was always an advantage. For a long time with the cup car, now with the next gen
car, I get out of the Xfinity car and I was like, man, it takes me 20 laps to figure out how to
fill the steering again in the next gen car. Like it just is so radically different. And, and I felt
like, you know, the problem with the cup series is as successful as it got so quick and all the
attention and everything, there's no like feeder ride in the cup series anymore. In my opinion,
it's like everybody, every, every, you know, car out there is like a contending car. And it's a,
you know, it's a very highly sought after ride. And there's really no seats. Like there's just,
you just filled up, like used to you had, you know, Alex Bowman ran what, 150, 200 races before
he got his shot. And it's like he was in cars that were in the cup series. There's no place for him
now. If you go back 10 years and start over, like it just, that's not there. So I feel like,
you know, because the open spots are there, we're in a position with infrastructure and the friends
I have and the networking I have up here, the experience I have as a cup owner, I feel like
we're in a great position to help a successful Xfinity driver or Riley's driver or Craftsman
truck series driver get some seat time in a next gen car and be presentable. No,
we're not going to run better than 30th. Like that, that honestly, like on speed, like,
like, yes, we've had some great finishes. Okay. We've had some top 20s. Catherine did a phenomenal
job later in the year and, and she got comfortable with the car. But the truth is all those races,
we were 28th to 30th on speed, even though we got a phenomenal 20 second place finish or,
I think even top 20 once or twice. So it's like, I want to be realistic and say that, you know,
we're at best, we're going to be a 30th to 28th place open team when we're competing against
these charter guys. But I feel like it's a better move for someone that's going to take over a top
tier cup team that, you know, knows they're going to win on Sunday or they're on a path to win on
Sunday. I feel like if you get in our car and you go get your feet wet and feel what it's like to
have to be competitive in this series and because it's an eye opener for everybody, we see that,
we see that with every, you know, O'Reilly's champion that jumps over in cup and, and they're
literally 30th on the board, 33rd on the board laps down. Like, I mean, it's just, it's, it's,
it's that much of a gap. So I feel like we're in a position if you jump in our car and go run 30th
and get used to it without the pressure of knowing that, you know, you're driving for top tier team
and wow, am I going to, am I going to mess up my name? If I get in this car and I don't run good,
our car doesn't present that pressure. So it lets you learn the nuances of the cup series
without having that pressure on you and just really, you know, work on your craft before
you get in that winning car. And I think, you know, we're just in a unique spot to be able to do that.
And that was the plan after we sold was to prove that we could do that. We did that last year with
Catherine and Catherine, she's coming in. She hadn't been on an oval, you know, it's like,
we're not talking about somebody that's winning in O'Reilly's or trucks. We're talking about
somebody that's, you know, got an awesome career and done incredible stuff, but she has no experience
over here. Like a very, very limited. And, you know, we, we, Phoenix, there was a, there was a,
you know, unmistakable hiccup that happened during the race. And I, you know, I called Justin,
talked to him and just, you know, told him that we didn't want to have those things happen and
felt bad about it. And, you know, it was really cool. But the, the point is get past that one,
one lapse in judgment on, you know, on her part, she owned it. She didn't run. She, she said,
Hey, I know I messed up and she took care of it. And she, she talked to the drivers and,
and then the next race, she kills it. Right. It's like, she, she goes out there and does awesome.
And it's like, that's, you know, that's what we're here for. And, and, you know, if she has
partners that wants to work with us, we're thrilled to work with her because she did a
phenomenal job coming back from, from, from Phoenix. I would agree. Man, the, the story
is amazing. I've, I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed, you know, getting to know you over the past
couple of years and just watching you and how you've operated, but always wanted to sit down
and talk to you about the, the, the Florida years and all the success that you had. And
I just don't think that a lot of people really appreciate your, your, the duty, the dues you
paid. Right. And I think a lot of people do appreciate your savvy business ethic and how
you've been able to, you know, make a living at, at, at the top three levels of NASCAR as a driver
and an owner. But I think it would be fun for people to hear the full story and the fact that
you're creative, you know, to go outside of the box to create, you know, financial opportunities
for yourself to continue to do what you do, man. It's impressive. I just don't feel like a lot
of people have that work ethic. They have the want, they have, they have the want to be there,
but you're, you know, the boots on the ground part is tough for a lot of folks.
Well, I really appreciate you saying that. It means, it means an awful lot coming from you. And,
and the work ethic side is 100% because of my parents. Like they instilled a dummy when I was
a kid and I just don't quit. Like I'm willing to do anything. Like you just go for it.
There was one moment that I wish would have came to fruition. We were at Atlanta. You'll
remember this. Michael Annette is driving our car. Michael had broken his leg. Michael wasn't
feeling good all weekend. Literally, like literally 30 minutes, not even 30 minutes before the race
is starting. Michael has decided that he can't drive the car. He doesn't feel good. And I got
a call from my sister in LW and I'm standing in the booth with my tie on to call the race.
And they're like, can you drive it? They're freaking out. Like who can drive it? Can you drive it?
I'm like, I'm in the booth. Like I can't, well, I can't leave the booth. What am I going to tell
my bosses? You know, they don't think anytime a damn car, you know, door opens up, I'm just
going to jump out of my booth and go drive a race car. Like I have to, I had to think in the moment,
like, yeah, I can't do this. Someone else has to do this. I'm, I'm, I've signed up for this.
And because I didn't want to lose my job as a broadcaster. And we were like, who can do it?
And I pitched your name and they went looking for you. Couldn't find you.
Yeah. So, so actually, you know, what's funny enough or did we find that you did the, I think
and you couldn't fit. I think that was the end of it. I was willing. So I was willing to drive
the car without a liner. Like I would have drove that car that day, sitting on the carbon 100%.
If that was, so you see the movie, I would have done it though. I know you would have.
And I would have, David Green is the one that takes care of all of us. I would have choked
him if I had to to get in that car. Like I love him to death. But it's like, he would have not
wanted me to do it because he wouldn't want me to get hurt. But I would have signed any waiver,
anything with NASCAR to not get sued, whatever I could have done to get in that car.
I would have said yes. So it's, it's funny because they come and got me and they,
my remember sending my bus driver to go get the suit and get all my stuff. And I was getting
changed. And, and then I walked out there and Austin was starting to get fitted for it.
And when I walked up, Emerson told me that they were just worried about,
you know, me not being able to ride, not having a, not having a liner.
Yeah. Because you're going to have to take the liner out.
Yeah. So I could have drove it without the liner. And I did. So it's crazy enough,
John West got hurt in 2014 at Pocono in Arkacar for a Venturini. They airlifted him out and,
you know, he's going to the hospital and I'm asleep in the lounge and Billy runs in there.
And he's like, Hey, will you start and park John West's car? And I'm like, dude,
you know the difference in size between the two of us. And he's like, Oh,
don't worry about it. We'll take the liner. And I was like, well, if he's got a liner,
just pull it out and I'll drive it. So I drove that car at Pocono.
I wouldn't have wanted you to race without a liner, but I would have done heartbeat.
No disrespect to Austin Dillon. He did us a solid, but I badly wanted to see you
getting that car. And what a great freaking chance to put you in a decent race car.
Yes. And on the old Atlanta, man, I can tell you right now, first lap, I'd have been on
against the wall through one and two wide open, get as many spots as I could have.
Like you just, because you do that stuff back then, like, and I knew with that car,
just get me to the green. Like that's, that's where it would have been, been game on.
I'd love to see that that day. I'm a big fan of yours. I appreciate your,
I appreciate your personality and the hard work you've done and the person you are and to your,
to what you said, be yourself. You definitely are who you are. And, and you wear that on your,
you know, you wear that proudly and, and you've kind of earned everyone's respect by going that
route. Right. There's a lot of dudes out there that I've raced with. And sometimes you're just
not really sure if the person they are pretending to be is who they really are. But there's no,
there's no guessing with you. No question. Yeah. I appreciate you giving us some time today. I
think a lot of people are going to love this show, getting to know you better. You got a lot of people
out there pulling for you, man. And can't wait to see what you do next, BJ. Absolutely. Thank you
to everyone for all the support. It means the world to us. And I haven't got a trophy on track,
but the amount of respect that I've got throughout the garage means more than anyone ever could.
So just thank you for that and everything you've said and invite me in here. It's been,
it's been a blast. I appreciate it. BJ McLeod on the Dale Jr. Download.
So BJ McLeod, everybody knows what he's been doing over the last,
you know, decade. And he has earned a lot of respect as a guy who has raced within his budget
and, you know, made his way all the way into the Cup Series, you know, doing, you know,
with this unique process. And it's just pretty impressive. And I'm telling you,
I mean, that dude was beating the ground, going into these back, you know, these side doors of
all these race teams to, to get a spindle or a set of brake rotors or a body panel,
whatever, to like save a couple of hundred bucks here and there, you know, tallying all that up
week after week, day after day after day, just to get his cars up and down the road and to the
racetrack and knowing that they're, you know, they're racing to have that kind of surprise,
top 15 or top 20 finish. He's racing, he was racing a whole different game, a whole different,
you know, he wasn't racing against junior runners or Gibbs or he was racing a whole
another scenario in certain circumstances. It's really impressive. I always admired the underdog
or the, the independent for what they have to, have to deal with. And,
and he doesn't even look at himself as a underdog. He just, he has a whole different set of rules
and he races at a different standard and his achievements and his a good day for him has,
has a different set of goals than most and he adheres to those, you know, he isn't having
grand illusions of, of, you know, entering a cup race and finishing in the top three.
And so I really admire it and, but at the same time, he's very successful in Florida
in the super late models. And, and I don't know that many people really know what that means
or what that was, right? Yeah. Did what he wanted? He won a couple of races at his local track.
Um, I had a little bit more than that, quite a bit more than that. And so
the dude can drive a race car and, and, and, uh, you know, we just don't really get to see how,
how good he might be because he's not in quality equipment at the truck,
Xfinity or a couple of level, but man, it's just fun talking to him and he's,
um, he looks at the world really where everything on the table is, everything's on the table.
Everything's a possibility. You know, he'll go outside of his racing mind and create opportunities
through unique businesses or, or, or, and, and create capital and create, uh, you know,
fund racing and just, you know, I don't know, man. A lot of guys and myself included, you know, you
kind of, you look at your racing career and you're like, I just got to climb the ladder.
How do I climb the ladder? I just drive cars. I just go, go drive a car and drive a car well. And
um, a lot of people don't have to go outside themselves or outside their racing
world to, to create opportunity. And, um, yeah, he does anything and everything, whatever it takes,
just an interesting guy. Um, appreciate him giving some time today. I was already a fan of BJ McLeod,
but man, it ain't no bulls*** man. He's not a, he's, he's not a front. He is just authentically him.
You've got to appreciate that. Um, and, and I'm glad we got him on the show today.
Um, thanks for everybody for joining us here in the Arby's studio. Don't forget about Arby's
new meet and three box. We talk about it every week, but you get more meal for your money at
Arby's in, especially in this meet and three box Arby's. We have the meets and we have the great
shows here at the Dell junior download and we'll see you again tomorrow. Check out Dirty Mo Media
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