Bob Pockrass Interview

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Then Hamlin is a mid-chaos, which is what he loves.

There's nothing better for cup racing

than the Earnhardt family owning a cup car.

If I was NASCAR in Jim France,

I would give Dale Jr. whatever he wanted.

I wouldn't see them sticking around

if they don't have a charter.

I think Kyle Busch wins again.

I just don't know whether it's at RCR or not.

You know, I'm good at ballparking.

I'm good at ballparking.

Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour,

presented by NASCAR on Fox.

And today we had to bring in Bob Hockress as our guest

because I just feel like that there's so much going on

in the sport right now with changes in lawsuits

and people and teammates and all the things

that are happening.

And you, my friend, are the most knowledgeable

about what is going on here.

So I thought it was a good time for us

to just sit here and talk through some things, Bob.

Well, there's certainly a lot going on.

Certainly feel like you've been in the middle

of a lot of it, trying to figure it all out.

Certainly a lot unpredictable.

And when people ask you what's gonna happen next,

I think we're taking some educated guesses,

but I don't know that we know

how things are gonna end up in a lot of these situations.

Yeah, well, I told Tyler before we got the show started

that we were gonna call this

the burn it down with Bob segment

because we can either.

I don't know if I can do an SVG type of burnout.

I don't know, Bob, I think you can.

I've seen a celebration with some bubbles and some beer,

maybe, and that would probably be pretty high

on the celebration list.

What do you think?

I can do a phone party.

Phone party.

I can do that.

We could teach you how to burn it.

We could teach you how to do a burnout.

That might take a little too much coordination.

Yeah, so let's start with this.

Where do you think Denny Hamlin is right now?

I know.

Denny Hamlin is amid chaos, which is what he loves, right?

Isn't that what Denny thrives on is chaos?

And it seems like he's creating as much for himself

as he can.

And I think when you look at the, you've got the lawsuit,

you've got the situation with Ty Gibbs last week,

you've got the situation with the 23 car this week.

But, and I told, you know, Caitlin and Mambo

what, when we had the show this week,

I've been in that situation where you're the,

you're driving for one team and you're owning another team.

And it's, it's very difficult to not separate it like,

like he has, you know, this week at Kansas,

because the expectation from JGR is to do exactly

what he did.

But do you see this week more difficult to navigate

than, than last week with Ty Gibbs?

I don't see it more difficult to navigate

if you're Denny Hamlin.

As difficult.

I think Denny Hamlin has 77 races left.

And I think his don't give a hoot.

You can say don't give a shit.

Don't give a shit is gonna just keep rising

because he's only got that,

he knows he has a limited amount of time left

and he's gonna do everything he can to win races.

He's going to probably take more than he gives.

Yeah.

And when you look at, because I felt like last week

with the Ty Gibbs situation,

I felt like him approaching it head on,

kind of taking accountability for going over the line

and the things that happened in Loudoun,

I felt like he handled that professionally.

How do you think that he navigates it within the walls

at 2311 this week?

That's a great question.

I think he navigates it by saying,

look, what would you expect from a legacy driver

who's another Toyota team,

but not one of your teammates?

How would you expect them to race you?

And he would say probably I didn't do a whole lot wrong.

Now the result wasn't what he wanted,

but I think he's like, I'm gonna go for wins.

When you're in a position to get a win,

I have 59, I want 60, maybe I even see 65 or 70.

I don't know if I'm gonna win a championship.

So I'm just gonna keep trying to win races.

Yeah.

Well, I think it's definitely,

our big question last week was,

was that the moment that derailed his championship?

And that was by far one of his best performances of the year,

even though they didn't win the race.

I mean, the Toyotas right now to me

just seem like they have everybody covered

pretty much everywhere but Loudoun.

And that does that mean everywhere but Phoenix?

Yeah, good point.

So I think that's the big question.

And what's wild is Toyota dominates that race

and they don't win.

And Hendrick is right there to take it

when it's kind of, I want to say given to them

but when they're given the opportunity to take it.

So when you go back and we get back

on the 2311 piece of the puzzle,

where do you feel like we are with the lawsuit?

And can you tell me if 2311 wins or NASCAR wins,

what do they win?

Because I can't-

Well, that's up to the judge to decide.

There'll be a trial, if they get,

assuming they get to trial,

there'll be a trial in front of a jury.

In December.

In December, the jury can award monetary damages,

I believe, but then anything that would kind of

break up the monopoly is the judge's decision.

So both sides would then propose if 2311 wins,

which isn't a guarantee by far.

But if they do win,

the judge would then make that decision

after recommendations from both sides.

And at that point could be the time

where they kind of come to the negotiating table.

Yeah, and so we get done with December 6th.

Do we think it's actually over there?

No, because there will be appeals and there will be if-

How long will that take?

Probably at least another six months to a year.

So I think that you'll have at least an idea

of the direction things could go,

but I don't think you're gonna get a definitive answer.

You know, if NASCAR wins,

I think it'd be a lot harder for like 2311

to win probably on appeal,

but you would assume that they will.

Yeah, and I think when you look at,

we know that there's some personal issues

on the Tyler Redick piece of it.

You look at, you know,

Bubba Wallace frustrated after the race.

What do you think the opportunities are

for those guys to go do something else?

Do you think that there's-

Tyler Redick certainly has opportunities.

I think people see a lot of potential in Tyler Redick.

Obviously he won the regular season title last year.

So I think people would be willing to write a check right now

for Tyler Redick and he pressed to decide,

do I want to wait it out or should I jump ship now?

And I think if you're Tyler Redick,

if all these people want you now,

they're gonna want you nine months from now

or 12 months from now,

whenever this whole thing,

if it doesn't go 2311's way

and things, you know, whether they close or sell

or whatever they would do if they don't win eventually,

I still think he would have the suitors

who would bump up his salary, right?

Like he only need two.

You only need two teams that want you

and it sounds like there certainly are.

Bubba, I'm not so sure about it.

I think he could find a place,

but I don't know that he would have

the options Tyler Redick does.

So it seems like a lot of the seats,

I mean, do you think there's a possibility

that Redick could say that for next year?

I mean, as long as they're an open team, he can go.

Yeah.

And certainly there would be-

That's from his contract.

From his contract.

Yeah.

But I don't think that he want,

I would say Tyler Redick is happy at 2311

and that he would want to stay there.

Yeah, and I think that-

But money talks, doesn't it?

Money does talk.

And again, as I said before, the money,

if he wants stability,

then he would have to consider leaving, I would think.

But again, I think right now,

the best place for him is probably 2311 there.

They were the ones who went after him.

Those were the ones who have invested in him.

And I think loyalty would trump stability in his case.

So we get to the end of this thing

and let's just say 2311 loses.

What do you think is the possible?

What are the scenarios for 2311 if that happens?

Because you hear a lot of things,

but you don't really know.

What do you-

I mean, they won't have charters, right?

So how many teams could they,

would they want to operate

if they wanted to continue to operate?

Or would they just sell the building

and hopefully to somebody who has a charter

and all the equipment and everything

and hope that they kind of do somewhat

what Trackhouse did with Genasi several years ago?

I mean, I wouldn't see them sticking around

if they don't have a charter and trying to race as open.

It's just an economically feasible-

And their charters are somewhat,

they're in different categories right now, correct?

Am I correct to say that?

A little bit, right?

The charters that they bought from Stuart Haas,

or the one charter they bought from Stuart Haas

has kind of looked at a little bit differently

than the two charters that they had.

The two charters that they had

NASCAR believes they forfeited, right?

They didn't sign the deal.

So they've given up, given those up,

the ones that they bought from Stuart Haas

who had originally signed the deal

seem to be in a little bit different kind of bucket.

Yeah.

Well, it's a very interesting scenario.

And I think when you look at everything involved in it,

I mean, you've got three drivers at 2311.

You've got obviously a lot of Toyota support.

When you look at Denny Hamlin

and saying that he has two years left,

I mean, do you ever see him driving a 2311 car?

I do.

You do?

I see him, not full-time.

But I could certainly see him getting in a car

for a track that he really likes.

And especially if he just wants to kind of see

where they're at at some point, I definitely could see it.

I mean, we've seen how hard

we can see Jimmy Johnson coming back, right?

For a little bit more,

I definitely could see Denny come back.

Do you like that though?

I'm of the opinion that I always wanted to get out

and say, if I could just get out,

I was super happy that we led laps in the last race.

We were competitive all the way to the end.

Do you feel like it takes away

from what you've done in the sport?

Because I feel like, and I think Jimmy Johnson himself

said that his last three years

and going to IndyCar and all the things that he did

kind of took away from what he did

as a seven-time champion.

Maybe a little bit, but I don't,

I mean, if you're a seven-time champion,

what do you care?

Does somebody look at you like you're a five-time champion?

Well, I mean, in his words, they look at him

like he was an almost a no-time champion

because he put it...

Well, how does he look at Daryl Waldtrip,

you know, that has been of his career, right?

And so, I don't know.

I don't look at it that way,

but I guess you could...

If I had seven trophies at home and I don't have any,

but if I had one, I'd probably be like,

I don't really care what you think of me.

Yeah, and it was really interesting to hear him say that

because of the fact that he brought up the fact

that he went out to the front of the racetrack

and they were selling seven-time Richard Petty merchandise

and they were selling seven-time Del Earnhardt merchandise

and they both had merchandise lines

and all these things that went with the credit

of their seven-time champion status.

And he's like, I don't have anything out there.

And I just find it so bizarre that it doesn't...

It isn't even close to the way that it gets treated

from Jimmy Johnson to the other two guys.

Yeah, and then Jimmy Johnson,

I feel one of most of his championships

in the hardest format around, right?

Winning those 10-race chases

where I thought one of the most difficult things to do

because, you know, you got a mulligan,

maybe one, potentially two,

but you had to be so good at all different types of tracks.

But, you know, when Jimmy went into car racing,

when we asked him, why would you do it?

It was almost because I can.

Right. And like, how many people

can just do what they want, right?

After having such a career and like,

I don't blame him or I would want to see him try it again.

Even if you knew the results weren't gonna be great.

I mean, I guess you wonder about your legacy

and how you're viewed.

But, you know, from a racer standpoint,

why not do a couple of years of Indy car?

Does Kyle Larson ever race the Indy 500 again?

And not, not while he's racing NASCAR.

Yeah.

You know, maybe when he,

maybe he's a full-time world of outlaws

or full-time high limit racer.

And whether that's 10 years or so,

I would say maybe he does it again,

but I don't think he'll do it

when he's racing while he's racing NASCAR.

Is there anybody that you think tries it?

I think Kyle Bush would try it if he had the opportunity.

I mean, he had it pretty much all set up,

granted that several years ago,

but I still think he would, he would do it.

I'd love to see Zillich do it.

Yeah, I think he certainly has the talent.

Yeah.

And I think you got to do it while you're young.

I just think that, I mean,

I guess you don't have to do it while you're young.

I think your best opportunity to perform

like Kyle Larson did in year one is to do it while you,

Do you think you need to have a championship though,

a cup championship so that you would never look back

and say, gosh, if I hadn't split my time in May,

I wouldn't have won a title.

It might be better to just do it in your rookie year

just to get it out of the way, right?

Because then you have all the excuses in the world

that, yeah, I'm just a, I'm a rookie here.

But you mentioned Kyle.

Your buddy, Justin Marks, he still wants to maybe own it.

He likes to own things.

So maybe he can get a partial ownership of an IndyCar team.

Maybe he just starts an IndyCar team

and does a program like Mr. Hendrick did

with whoever to go put Zillich in it.

But I honestly, I would do it early

because the expectations from a cup side,

you're still building the program

and you're still doing all the things

to get yourself in place and the enthusiasm

and everything that goes with it.

I could see it both ways.

You know, I think it depends a lot on the scenario.

I think you see Zillich maybe going formula one though

in five, six, eight, 10 years.

And if he does that, then he,

and he wants to do the Indy 500,

probably would have to be early.

I still affirm in believing that Connor Zillich is,

is the most, he was,

he had the highest possibility of being a true contender

in F1 as an American.

I just, I watched him from carts.

You know, he's been in the European carding program

and been successful over there.

You know, those, those luckily we steered him towards NASCAR

and not the open wheel route

because he was one of the ones,

very few that, that could go over there on talent

and make it on the F1 side without just a bucket of money.

They could have found him a bucket of money

to support all the, all the things that he did.

So it's, I think once you get out of that system

and try to go back seven or eight years later,

I think it would be really difficult

to follow the details of, of what you need to be,

what you need to be doing in a car.

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But you mentioned Kyle Busch

and we're talking IndyCar double duty.

Where does this go for Kyle?

Does he, does he ever win another cup race?

Does he stay at RCR?

What's, what do you think?

Is it the car?

Is it some of the car?

Is it some of the Kyle?

Because there's just a, you know,

I'm a number of moments where we hit the wall,

we spin out all those things that,

that shouldn't happen.

I mean, where, where is Kyle Busch?

I think Kyle Busch wins again.

I just don't know whether it's at RCR or not.

And look, I think Spire would like to have him

and see what they could do with him.

Sounds like he'll, he's, you know,

as they've all said and staying for next year,

but I mean, you know, it can't be happy.

And, you know, if they continue to run

the way they've been running, he'll want to,

he'll want to leave.

And, you know, and I think that's the challenge now

in getting a new crew chief, right?

Do you bring somebody in who is probably wondering,

gosh, am I coming into crew chief Kyle Busch?

And is that just going to be one year?

Or am I being brought in to crew chief Kyle Busch

for a year and then maybe they're Austin Hill

or Jesse Love or somebody else?

Yeah. And it just becomes more difficult by the day,

right?

And, you know, you, Rodney Childers

was probably the best prospect out there

to, to bring into the system that could have potentially

put him in a position to, to get things on track.

But he went to junior motorsports to, to manage

the Xfinity car that, that, uh,

Quaple and, and, uh, Zillich are going to run.

So, well, I mean, do you think,

what do you think are the options?

Because it's been really quiet.

Like it was really quiet when Randall was leaving.

It's been really quiet as far as what they're going to do.

I'm not sure yet.

You know, they do have a few people in-house

that I think they, they're considering.

And again, I think,

I think you've got to look at it and say, you know,

how long is Kyle Busch going to stay?

And do we want to put somebody in there

who could be a rookie crew chief with Kyle Busch,

which you know might not work out.

But if you think that that crew chief has potential,

and then they have some experience

when you bring somebody else in,

it can be beneficial.

So, um, I think the hard part, like,

is the right answer for Richard Childress Racing,

also the right answer for Kyle Busch in that situation.

Yeah. And I think that all that becomes super interesting.

When you, when you talk about Richard Childress Racing

and, you know, I look at Colleague going to Dodge

and I see, you know, what they're going to do

on the, on the truck series program.

And Dodge has to have an engine program.

So those choices, you can either start your own

as a manufacturer like Toyota has done.

But who, how do we get this Dodge cup thing lined up

with who that can build an engine?

Right. And you're asking, is the ECR going to be?

Yeah. I mean, it has to be ECR.

I mean, Pinsky's got to have their old engine shop

still sitting around.

Right.

I mean, you know, could, I mean you look at somebody

like RFK, right?

And you look at somebody like Brad,

who potentially like could, could do it or find a way,

I think, to potentially do it.

You know, I've been asking people at ECR

and around that group, if there's potential

for them to do it.

And that's, they're still saying, no, we're Chevy team.

We've been a long time Chevy team.

Yeah.

And Richard's pretty loyal.

I hadn't thought about the whole RFK piece of it,

but I think when you look at trying to get out

from underneath what you've always been

to make it something better, the potential has got

to be there.

I would, I would assume if you're going to step out.

Yeah. And I mean, you would think,

I think the question is how much funding

will Dodge have to go cup racing, right?

Because, and that's not a cheap endeavor.

And, but cause look, even if another engine shop,

let's say you were going to an existing,

let's just say ECR, I mean,

they would still be building Chevrolet engines

for a little bit.

So you'd almost have to have some sort

of whole separate wing or separate building

to start doing that type of development.

When do you think that?

I mean, do you, do you actually think Dodge

makes it to the grid in 27?

No, I don't.

I think it's going to be 28, if at the earliest.

And where do you, I mean,

do you know where all the manufacturer alignments

are with teams as far as when they end

and when they don't end?

Oh, I'm not positive on those.

And, you know, those things tend to,

if somebody's news coming in,

those things can be worked out

cause you don't want somebody who's just

kind of sitting there, sitting there waiting.

But, you know, I think, you know,

you look at Dodge and I know that they were hopeful for 27,

but that just seems just such a way,

way aggressive time for them.

So what happens with Colleague in between there?

We know that they've, you know,

they're running their truck shop.

Do you think Chevrolet continues to support

the rest of the things that they do?

I don't know how much support they've been giving them.

Yeah, but you still got to get engines.

So, I mean, I think they will get engines.

I think there's still some question of how many,

if any, if any cars they run, you know,

because they obviously need it.

I think they were saying at least 50 people

for to run the truck shop.

So, you know, it'd be a lot easier to take some of your

people who are working on X-FINI

and move them over to that truck program.

So still some questions of how many X-FINI cars,

as far as cup cars, I think they can get engines,

but they won't be able to touch them at all,

even if they were able to touch them now.

It becomes difficult, like when you look at the simulators

and the simulation and all the things,

most all those things come from the manufacturer, right?

And in order to put that cup car on the racetrack,

the simulation has to work appropriately.

But if you don't have the programs

and things to put in it,

I know that they don't get a lot of support,

but it's still to make it function.

You're using this stuff either through RCR

or through the manufacturer.

So it definitely becomes a little bit tricky

to be able to understand how to put that car on the racetrack.

I will say if Ty Dillon is still there,

which I expect him to be there next year at college.

In the cup car.

Yes.

Yeah.

That, you know, you would think that with that

relationship, he can at least maybe get some,

some information, right?

You would think that that though

could be still a little bit of flow.

Talk to me about, talk to me about Ross Chastain.

And because when I look at the trackhouse dynamic

is interesting, right?

And, you know, I think when you look at at trackhouse

and Ross, I mean, that's what the anchor,

I mean, he's viewed as the anchor of the team.

Is that fair?

Yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, you see Zillich coming in,

you see a new crew chief coming in,

you saw him build the car for SVG

and bring Steven in to be the crew chief

and built a whole team around it.

They've done a great job with all the sponsorship

and everything that they do.

What do you think?

Because I would assume that his contract

is getting towards the end.

What do you think?

Does he stay at trackhouse?

Do you think that there's too many things

that have changed?

What do you think that whole dynamic turns into?

Yeah.

I want to say he has at least a couple of years left.

And again, I don't see Ross as a guy who likes a lot of change.

And he's the guy who I think is very comfortable

at trackhouse and I think he'll still be the anchor, right?

Like SVG is still going to be on a learning curve.

Zillich is still going to be on a learning curve.

I think the bigger question, Kevin,

is a few years ago we were always equating

like 2311 and trackhouse, right?

The new teams.

And seems that 2311 has continued

a certain level of performance in trackhouse.

It's been a little bit more, I would say, up and down.

Just maybe a tick behind.

And the question is are they,

as the bigger teams develop the next gen car

or develop ideas with the next gen car,

are they going to be able to keep up?

And you saw them obviously make

a lot of competition changes here

in the last few months.

I think it helps to do it.

I think that, so who do you,

you mentioned RFK as possible, Dodge.

We talk about trackhouse, talk about RCR.

I mean, do you see that just being one team?

When they originally start putting two cars

on the racetrack, four cars on the track?

I would think it'd be four.

Four teams.

Yeah, I think four cars is what you want.

Do you think it'll be one org at work?

I think it depends.

We'll go back to the start of this conversation

in the lawsuit and how many teams have charters

and how many cars each organization has.

I would say four to six is what you often hear.

If you can get six and have a four car team

and a two car team, then it's the legacy,

an organization that you would,

that'll be a three car team in 2027.

Yeah, so when you open up the charter conversation

and you bring a new manufacturer in,

does that not open the door for a NASCAR to expand the field?

Certainly opens door for them to,

they have the ability to issue 40 charters,

an extra four more.

So they sell those or they just give them away?

I think they can do what they want.

It's my understanding.

I do think,

I do, from what we've been able to gather

from the lawsuit and we hear bits and pieces,

but it almost sounds like that if you're a current team,

you have to be at least given the right to kind of bid on it.

But we haven't heard like whether NASCAR is obligated

to accept that bid.

So the new manufacturer coming in

could open the door for that.

Does junior motorsports ever wind up with a charter

when the ability for NASCAR to give them away?

Because there's nothing better for cup racing

than the Earnhardt family owning a cup car.

Yeah, I think,

it's open.

I give them one.

I mean, if I was NASCAR and Jim France,

I would give Dell Junior whatever he wanted.

And just for free, you'd be like, just do it.

I mean, I think it's open,

but from everything you hear out of that organization,

they don't want,

because they've had people come and talk to them

about investing and buying a charter,

but they want to run that program year to year

without losing money.

They don't want to look at the charter as something like,

okay, this is something that we can make,

we can lose $20 million over 10 years,

but then make it back when we sell the charter.

They're not looking at it that way.

And I think they would need to have the sponsorship

and the funding that they feel is necessary to compete.

Well, that's easy.

I mean, you've got Dell.

And I think that the workload that goes with it

would be the hard part.

That's a big bite,

but it'll be interesting to see how it all works out

because not only do you have the new manufacturer,

you've got the lawsuit with some undecided charters.

There's a lot of things that could make something swing

in a direction that we didn't see coming.

Is that fair?

That's very fair.

Yeah.

And when you talk about NASCAR,

we saw him make some changes with the race director

this week with Juson.

He's out.

I don't know why he's out,

but we see that Chip Weil is moving on.

Are we on the front side of a restructuring from NASCAR

or are these just coincidentally at the same time?

I mean, I think those two are coincidental

at the same time.

We've heard indications that Juson wasn't performance related.

One, Chip is,

they've been out there,

he's been out there saying that

he's wanted to do something different.

So it's a great question, Kevin,

because every few years it does seem that NASCAR

does kind of reorganize things.

And I think with the lawsuit,

we're certainly seeing what some of the executives

are thinking that is,

and I think that it all kind of boils down

to probably what happens in the lawsuit

and when do they feel that Ben Kennedy is ready

to take even more of a role than what he already has.

And he already has a pretty big role.

And certainly if he were to get put in charge,

he's gonna wanna put his people

in certain spots.

Yeah, and I think it's probably not a bad time

to restructure.

I think when you look at the next JINCAR,

I don't think it's saved,

I know it hasn't saved anybody any money.

And when you look at the way that the car is raced

and the millions and millions and millions of dollars

that NASCAR has put in to try to change it

and make it better.

To me, it seems like it would be a good time

with the lawsuit and given the JIN7 car a few years,

would you agree or disagree with that

in order to kind of restructure some of these things?

I would probably wait and see if Honda

decides whether they're coming in, right?

They're still trying to make all the indications

to get from them is that the one thing they won't do

is do both IndyCar and NASCAR.

They'll do one or the other

and still think that,

I don't know that there's any timeline for a decision,

probably in the next year or so.

I would want,

who's ever working with these new manufacturers now,

who's working with Dodge and Ram,

who could be working with Honda if they come in.

I wouldn't want to,

unless I feel like that they're not doing

the job to get them in,

I would want to have some consistency there

in that direction as far as the competition side.

Yeah.

Well, it's an interesting time on a lot of fronts.

So I hope that I wish that they would

put a lot of horsepower on the cars

and just make them super sketchy to drive.

But we've all seen the challenges there.

I think they're gonna put,

it sounds like- You put a little bit in it,

but is there anything they're gonna put in it?

Well, everything that I've heard,

they put it in and the driver couldn't even tell,

that they changed the horsepower.

It needs a ton of horsepower.

It needs to be faster.

You go back and you watch those old videos.

And can you do that on the tires you have now

or are you gonna have to develop new tires for all that?

Yeah.

I mean, that's the cause and effect, right?

I think it's the cause and effect for the engine departments.

I think all the engine departments would probably do it

if they had the proper runway.

And that's the hard part about the position

that NASCAR is in now.

The question price goes up

because they're gonna have to raise the price

for the engine needs, right?

When they lowered the horsepower,

the price of the engines went up.

And because the valve train, it becomes so important.

And I just think that we're in a much-

It's supposed to go down

because you were using an engine more.

Nothing went down.

The engine bills did not go down.

And I think that's the ironic thing

about a lot of these scenarios.

But I think that technology and I don't think

we need to turn the engines 10,000 RPM.

But I think that the cars need to go faster

than they do today.

They should be the fastest cars

and they're hard to drive.

Don't get me wrong.

But every time we've taken speed out of the straightaway

and made the cars faster through the corners,

it becomes harder to pass.

It happened at the very first test

when we took horsepower out the first time,

cars immediately became harder to pass

because of the corner speed.

But we'll see.

And I know that that's a tricky question.

Last NASCAR question won't get us in too much trouble.

Where does the playoff format land?

Ooh, man, there's been push for 36 races.

But I just, I mean, I don't think

the last 20 years have been all that bad.

Yeah, well, here's my argument to that.

When we went to the one race for it all,

all or nothing, did the TV ratings ever go up?

Has the crowd ever gone up

because we have a championship race?

The hard parts of the TV ratings are going down.

Because people's general, what we don't have

is what was the cause of, you know,

because general TV viewing had changed.

Well, let's just forget the last three years.

But when we first started it,

was the last race the most watched race

because of the championship format?

Not that I ever remember.

But I mean, the thing is that,

as we talked earlier, the 10 race championship,

I thought, I'd love that.

I felt the one race has been,

while easy to understand,

is not the best way to crown a racing champion.

I think they'll go, you know, four or five race,

they'll have some sort of playoff

and then cut it down once to, you know, five or six

and you'll have four or five races is what I think.

The thing about the four race playoff

is I like the fact that you can take a super speedway,

you can take a road course, you can take a short track

and you can take an intermediate.

And, you know, may the best man win

that can put all those different styles

of race tracks together.

And it just flips the Roval and Las Vegas right now

on the schedule, right?

And you'd have that.

So that would be better.

Yes, it would be better than what we have currently.

Yeah, and then I think question is,

how much do you give for a win?

Yes.

You know, because you wanna get rid of these playoff points

because it's just too confusing.

And I think the other challenge for NASCAR

is to decide on whether they want to have

a certain number of drivers make the playoffs

or do you just say top 10 and points

and anybody who wins or do you say top,

say, oh, we only wanna have 12 or 14 and 16.

So is it top 10 and points?

And then two winners or four winners or six winners.

I think that's kind of a lot of the conversation

that they're having now.

Well, I told you it was gonna be the last question,

but I lied.

I just thought of something else

because when it sounds like the Super Bowl,

the NFL season is gonna get longer.

At some point.

Does the Daytona 500 have to be the first race

of the season or can we knock off some in January

so that we can end earlier?

It sounds like that NASCAR is pretty adamant

that the Daytona 500 will be the first race of the year.

And I don't see them going up against the Super Bowl.

What do you think though?

So I personally don't think it has to be,

but NASCAR has said that their fan polls

that they've taken want the Daytona 500

to be the first race of the year,

first points race of the year.

So I would say if, I mean, I haven't seen that survey,

but if that's the what the fans are saying,

I wouldn't want to change.

I'd have to find a new place to poll this.

I don't know who's on this poll,

but it seems a lot like the political polls

that are never right.

Maybe we need a broader scope of fans.

If you want to go, everybody talks about go back old school

and go 36 races, right?

There's a time when the Daytona 500

wasn't the first race of the year.

Yeah, we used to go to Riverside.

And I just think that football has become so popular

that it makes the dynamic very difficult

to compete against them at this point in the year.

So a lot of big things to have.

Last question, Bob.

Most important question of all,

what was your first car that you bought and drove?

Okay.

You're not going to get out of here

without the consistent guest question.

Well, were you prepared?

I mean, I've listened, I watch every week.

So I know that the question, what the question is

and the first car I drove was a hammy down

from my parents.

It was a Pontiac Phoenix, I think, at one of those.

But the first car I bought was from my older brother,

which was a blue Camaro

with some rust strategically placed on the hood.

So it didn't last all that long,

but it was enough to get me through college.

So did you sell it?

What happened to it?

Or did it just blow up?

Just let it burn.

I'm trying to think if I wrecked it.

Yeah.

So what you're saying is, are you a good driver

or a bad driver?

Those who can't, right?

So you're a bad driver.

I mean, I'm adequate.

Adequate.

You get yourself from point A to point B.

That's right.

Okay.

Well, I appreciate you taking the time.

I know that a lot of things are going on,

but there's nobody that navigates it better than you.

We're thankful to have you on our team.

So hope you enjoyed it.

Thanks for having me.

Bob Pockrass Interview

Chevrolet Camaro

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