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Bob Pockrass Interview
Bob Pockrass Interview
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About this episode
Bob Pockrass joins Kevin Harvick to unpack the current turbulence in NASCAR, including the 2311 lawsuit, team dynamics, and driver futures. They discuss Denny Hamlin's chaotic but determined approach, Kyle Busch's uncertain path, and the potential impact of new manufacturers like Dodge. The conversation also covers NASCAR's playoff format, organizational changes, and the challenges of evolving the Next Gen car. Bob shares insights on driver moves, team strategies, and the sport's future amid legal and competitive shifts, offering a deep dive into NASCAR's complex landscape.
Topics:
2311 lawsuit
denny hamlin
kyle busch
team dynamics
new manufacturers
nascar playoff format
next gen car
crew chief changes
driver futures
nascar organizational changes
Cars:
Chevrolet Camaro
Kevin Harvick is joined by FOX Sports Motorsports Reporter Bob Pockrass for a wide-ranging conversation. Together, they break down the current playoff race, the biggest drama from the past two weeks, and where the championship battle stands heading into the next round. They also dive into the latest on the lawsuit involving 23XI Racing, Front Row Motorsports, and NASCAR, discussing what it means for teams, drivers, and the long-term future of the sport. Finally, Harvick and Pockrass explore the direction NASCAR is heading, from on-track competition to off-track changes that could shape the next era of racing.
LINK TO SUBMIT PICKS FOR THE ROVAL: https://forms.gle/nFSHX1w6EZ22eg8k7
0:00 - Intro
0:34 - Bob Pockrass Joins The Show!
1:50 - Denny Hamlin Drama
4:55 - 23XI Lawsuit Developments
13:28 - Kyle Larson’s INDYCAR Future
16:15 - Kyle Busch’s Future
21:08 - Ram’s Return to NASCAR
23:22 - Ross Chastain’s Future
30:03 - Next Gen Car
33:23 - NASCAR Playoff Format
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Chevrolet Camaro
"...ought was from my older brother, which was a blue Camaro with some rust strategically placed on the hood."
- Intro
- Bob Pockrass Joins The Show!
- Denny Hamlin Drama
- 23XI Lawsuit Developments
- Kyle Larson’s INDYCAR Future
- Kyle Busch’s Future
- Ram’s Return to NASCAR
- Ross Chastain’s Future
- Next Gen Car
- NASCAR Playoff Format
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Then Hamlin is a mid-chaos, which is what he loves.
There's nothing better for cup racing
than the Earnhardt family owning a cup car.
If I was NASCAR in Jim France,
I would give Dale Jr. whatever he wanted.
I wouldn't see them sticking around
if they don't have a charter.
I think Kyle Busch wins again.
I just don't know whether it's at RCR or not.
You know, I'm good at ballparking.
I'm good at ballparking.
I'm good at ballparking.
I'm good at ballparking.
I'm good at ballparking.
I'm good at ballparking.
I'm good at ballparking.
I'm good at ballparking.
I'm good at ballparking.
Welcome to Kevin Harvick's Happy Hour,
presented by NASCAR on Fox.
And today we had to bring in Bob Hockress as our guest
because I just feel like that there's so much going on
in the sport right now with changes in lawsuits
and people and teammates and all the things
that are happening.
And you, my friend, are the most knowledgeable
about what is going on here.
So I thought it was a good time for us
to just sit here and talk through some things, Bob.
Well, there's certainly a lot going on.
Certainly feel like you've been in the middle
of a lot of it, trying to figure it all out.
Certainly a lot unpredictable.
And when people ask you what's gonna happen next,
I think we're taking some educated guesses,
but I don't know that we know
how things are gonna end up in a lot of these situations.
Yeah, well, I told Tyler before we got the show started
that we were gonna call this
the burn it down with Bob segment
because we can either.
I don't know if I can do an SVG type of burnout.
I don't know, Bob, I think you can.
I've seen a celebration with some bubbles and some beer,
maybe, and that would probably be pretty high
on the celebration list.
What do you think?
I can do a phone party.
Phone party.
I can do that.
I can do that.
We could teach you how to burn it.
We could teach you how to do a burnout.
That might take a little too much coordination.
Yeah, so let's start with this.
Where do you think Denny Hamlin is right now?
I know.
Denny Hamlin is amid chaos, which is what he loves, right?
Isn't that what Denny thrives on is chaos?
And it seems like he's creating as much for himself
as he can.
And I think when you look at the, you've got the lawsuit,
you've got the situation with Ty Gibbs last week,
you've got the situation with the 23 car this week.
But, and I told, you know, Caitlin and Mambo
what, when we had the show this week,
I've been in that situation where you're the,
you're driving for one team and you're owning another team.
And it's, it's very difficult to not separate it like,
like he has, you know, this week at Kansas,
because the expectation from JGR is to do exactly
what he did.
But do you see this week more difficult to navigate
than, than last week with Ty Gibbs?
I don't see it more difficult to navigate
if you're Denny Hamlin.
As difficult.
I think Denny Hamlin has 77 races left.
And I think his don't give a hoot.
You can say don't give a shit.
Don't give a shit is gonna just keep rising
because he's only got that,
he knows he has a limited amount of time left
and he's gonna do everything he can to win races.
He's going to probably take more than he gives.
Yeah.
And when you look at, because I felt like last week
with the Ty Gibbs situation,
I felt like him approaching it head on,
kind of taking accountability for going over the line
and the things that happened in Loudoun,
I felt like he handled that professionally.
How do you think that he navigates it within the walls
at 2311 this week?
That's a great question.
I think he navigates it by saying,
look, what would you expect from a legacy driver
who's another Toyota team,
but not one of your teammates?
How would you expect them to race you?
And he would say probably I didn't do a whole lot wrong.
Now the result wasn't what he wanted,
but I think he's like, I'm gonna go for wins.
When you're in a position to get a win,
I have 59, I want 60, maybe I even see 65 or 70.
I don't know if I'm gonna win a championship.
So I'm just gonna keep trying to win races.
Yeah.
Well, I think it's definitely,
our big question last week was,
was that the moment that derailed his championship?
And that was by far one of his best performances of the year,
even though they didn't win the race.
I mean, the Toyotas right now to me
just seem like they have everybody covered
pretty much everywhere but Loudoun.
And that does that mean everywhere but Phoenix?
Yeah, good point.
So I think that's the big question.
And what's wild is Toyota dominates that race
and they don't win.
And Hendrick is right there to take it
when it's kind of, I want to say given to them
but when they're given the opportunity to take it.
So when you go back and we get back
on the 2311 piece of the puzzle,
where do you feel like we are with the lawsuit?
And can you tell me if 2311 wins or NASCAR wins,
what do they win?
Because I can't-
Well, that's up to the judge to decide.
There'll be a trial, if they get,
assuming they get to trial,
there'll be a trial in front of a jury.
In December.
In December, the jury can award monetary damages,
I believe, but then anything that would kind of
break up the monopoly is the judge's decision.
So both sides would then propose if 2311 wins,
which isn't a guarantee by far.
But if they do win,
the judge would then make that decision
after recommendations from both sides.
And at that point could be the time
where they kind of come to the negotiating table.
Yeah, and so we get done with December 6th.
Do we think it's actually over there?
No, because there will be appeals and there will be if-
How long will that take?
Probably at least another six months to a year.
So I think that you'll have at least an idea
of the direction things could go,
but I don't think you're gonna get a definitive answer.
You know, if NASCAR wins,
I think it'd be a lot harder for like 2311
to win probably on appeal,
but you would assume that they will.
Yeah, and I think when you look at,
we know that there's some personal issues
on the Tyler Redick piece of it.
You look at, you know,
Bubba Wallace frustrated after the race.
What do you think the opportunities are
for those guys to go do something else?
Do you think that there's-
Tyler Redick certainly has opportunities.
I think people see a lot of potential in Tyler Redick.
Obviously he won the regular season title last year.
So I think people would be willing to write a check right now
for Tyler Redick and he pressed to decide,
do I want to wait it out or should I jump ship now?
And I think if you're Tyler Redick,
if all these people want you now,
they're gonna want you nine months from now
or 12 months from now,
whenever this whole thing,
if it doesn't go 2311's way
and things, you know, whether they close or sell
or whatever they would do if they don't win eventually,
I still think he would have the suitors
who would bump up his salary, right?
Like he only need two.
You only need two teams that want you
and it sounds like there certainly are.
Bubba, I'm not so sure about it.
I think he could find a place,
but I don't know that he would have
the options Tyler Redick does.
So it seems like a lot of the seats,
I mean, do you think there's a possibility
that Redick could say that for next year?
I mean, as long as they're an open team, he can go.
Yeah.
And certainly there would be-
That's from his contract.
From his contract.
Yeah.
But I don't think that he want,
I would say Tyler Redick is happy at 2311
and that he would want to stay there.
Yeah, and I think that-
But money talks, doesn't it?
Money does talk.
And again, as I said before, the money,
if he wants stability,
then he would have to consider leaving, I would think.
But again, I think right now,
the best place for him is probably 2311 there.
They were the ones who went after him.
Those were the ones who have invested in him.
And I think loyalty would trump stability in his case.
So we get to the end of this thing
and let's just say 2311 loses.
What do you think is the possible?
What are the scenarios for 2311 if that happens?
Because you hear a lot of things,
but you don't really know.
What do you-
I mean, they won't have charters, right?
So how many teams could they,
would they want to operate
if they wanted to continue to operate?
Or would they just sell the building
and hopefully to somebody who has a charter
and all the equipment and everything
and hope that they kind of do somewhat
what Trackhouse did with Genasi several years ago?
I mean, I wouldn't see them sticking around
if they don't have a charter and trying to race as open.
It's just an economically feasible-
And their charters are somewhat,
they're in different categories right now, correct?
Am I correct to say that?
A little bit, right?
The charters that they bought from Stuart Haas,
or the one charter they bought from Stuart Haas
has kind of looked at a little bit differently
than the two charters that they had.
The two charters that they had
NASCAR believes they forfeited, right?
They didn't sign the deal.
So they've given up, given those up,
the ones that they bought from Stuart Haas
who had originally signed the deal
seem to be in a little bit different kind of bucket.
Yeah.
Well, it's a very interesting scenario.
And I think when you look at everything involved in it,
I mean, you've got three drivers at 2311.
You've got obviously a lot of Toyota support.
When you look at Denny Hamlin
and saying that he has two years left,
I mean, do you ever see him driving a 2311 car?
I do.
You do?
I see him, not full-time.
But I could certainly see him getting in a car
for a track that he really likes.
And especially if he just wants to kind of see
where they're at at some point, I definitely could see it.
I mean, we've seen how hard
we can see Jimmy Johnson coming back, right?
For a little bit more,
I definitely could see Denny come back.
Do you like that though?
I'm of the opinion that I always wanted to get out
and say, if I could just get out,
I was super happy that we led laps in the last race.
We were competitive all the way to the end.
Do you feel like it takes away
from what you've done in the sport?
Because I feel like, and I think Jimmy Johnson himself
said that his last three years
and going to IndyCar and all the things that he did
kind of took away from what he did
as a seven-time champion.
Maybe a little bit, but I don't,
I mean, if you're a seven-time champion,
what do you care?
Does somebody look at you like you're a five-time champion?
Well, I mean, in his words, they look at him
like he was an almost a no-time champion
because he put it...
Well, how does he look at Daryl Waldtrip,
you know, that has been of his career, right?
And so, I don't know.
I don't look at it that way,
but I guess you could...
If I had seven trophies at home and I don't have any,
but if I had one, I'd probably be like,
I don't really care what you think of me.
Yeah, and it was really interesting to hear him say that
because of the fact that he brought up the fact
that he went out to the front of the racetrack
and they were selling seven-time Richard Petty merchandise
and they were selling seven-time Del Earnhardt merchandise
and they both had merchandise lines
and all these things that went with the credit
of their seven-time champion status.
And he's like, I don't have anything out there.
And I just find it so bizarre that it doesn't...
It isn't even close to the way that it gets treated
from Jimmy Johnson to the other two guys.
Yeah, and then Jimmy Johnson,
I feel one of most of his championships
in the hardest format around, right?
Winning those 10-race chases
where I thought one of the most difficult things to do
because, you know, you got a mulligan,
maybe one, potentially two,
but you had to be so good at all different types of tracks.
But, you know, when Jimmy went into car racing,
when we asked him, why would you do it?
It was almost because I can.
Right. And like, how many people
can just do what they want, right?
After having such a career and like,
I don't blame him or I would want to see him try it again.
Even if you knew the results weren't gonna be great.
I mean, I guess you wonder about your legacy
and how you're viewed.
But, you know, from a racer standpoint,
why not do a couple of years of Indy car?
Does Kyle Larson ever race the Indy 500 again?
And not, not while he's racing NASCAR.
Yeah.
You know, maybe when he,
maybe he's a full-time world of outlaws
or full-time high limit racer.
And whether that's 10 years or so,
I would say maybe he does it again,
but I don't think he'll do it
when he's racing while he's racing NASCAR.
Is there anybody that you think tries it?
I think Kyle Bush would try it if he had the opportunity.
I mean, he had it pretty much all set up,
granted that several years ago,
but I still think he would, he would do it.
I'd love to see Zillich do it.
Yeah, I think he certainly has the talent.
Yeah.
And I think you got to do it while you're young.
I just think that, I mean,
I guess you don't have to do it while you're young.
I think your best opportunity to perform
like Kyle Larson did in year one is to do it while you,
Do you think you need to have a championship though,
a cup championship so that you would never look back
and say, gosh, if I hadn't split my time in May,
I wouldn't have won a title.
It might be better to just do it in your rookie year
just to get it out of the way, right?
Because then you have all the excuses in the world
that, yeah, I'm just a, I'm a rookie here.
But you mentioned Kyle.
Your buddy, Justin Marks, he still wants to maybe own it.
He likes to own things.
So maybe he can get a partial ownership of an IndyCar team.
Maybe he just starts an IndyCar team
and does a program like Mr. Hendrick did
with whoever to go put Zillich in it.
But I honestly, I would do it early
because the expectations from a cup side,
you're still building the program
and you're still doing all the things
to get yourself in place and the enthusiasm
and everything that goes with it.
I could see it both ways.
You know, I think it depends a lot on the scenario.
I think you see Zillich maybe going formula one though
in five, six, eight, 10 years.
And if he does that, then he,
and he wants to do the Indy 500,
probably would have to be early.
I still affirm in believing that Connor Zillich is,
is the most, he was,
he had the highest possibility of being a true contender
in F1 as an American.
I just, I watched him from carts.
You know, he's been in the European carding program
and been successful over there.
You know, those, those luckily we steered him towards NASCAR
and not the open wheel route
because he was one of the ones,
very few that, that could go over there on talent
and make it on the F1 side without just a bucket of money.
They could have found him a bucket of money
to support all the, all the things that he did.
So it's, I think once you get out of that system
and try to go back seven or eight years later,
I think it would be really difficult
to follow the details of, of what you need to be,
what you need to be doing in a car.
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But you mentioned Kyle Busch
and we're talking IndyCar double duty.
Where does this go for Kyle?
Does he, does he ever win another cup race?
Does he stay at RCR?
What's, what do you think?
Is it the car?
Is it some of the car?
Is it some of the Kyle?
Because there's just a, you know,
I'm a number of moments where we hit the wall,
we spin out all those things that,
that shouldn't happen.
I mean, where, where is Kyle Busch?
I think Kyle Busch wins again.
I just don't know whether it's at RCR or not.
And look, I think Spire would like to have him
and see what they could do with him.
Sounds like he'll, he's, you know,
as they've all said and staying for next year,
but I mean, you know, it can't be happy.
And, you know, if they continue to run
the way they've been running, he'll want to,
he'll want to leave.
And, you know, and I think that's the challenge now
in getting a new crew chief, right?
Do you bring somebody in who is probably wondering,
gosh, am I coming into crew chief Kyle Busch?
And is that just going to be one year?
Or am I being brought in to crew chief Kyle Busch
for a year and then maybe they're Austin Hill
or Jesse Love or somebody else?
Yeah. And it just becomes more difficult by the day,
right?
And, you know, you, Rodney Childers
was probably the best prospect out there
to, to bring into the system that could have potentially
put him in a position to, to get things on track.
But he went to junior motorsports to, to manage
the Xfinity car that, that, uh,
Quaple and, and, uh, Zillich are going to run.
So, well, I mean, do you think,
what do you think are the options?
Because it's been really quiet.
Like it was really quiet when Randall was leaving.
It's been really quiet as far as what they're going to do.
I'm not sure yet.
You know, they do have a few people in-house
that I think they, they're considering.
And again, I think,
I think you've got to look at it and say, you know,
how long is Kyle Busch going to stay?
And do we want to put somebody in there
who could be a rookie crew chief with Kyle Busch,
which you know might not work out.
But if you think that that crew chief has potential,
and then they have some experience
when you bring somebody else in,
it can be beneficial.
So, um, I think the hard part, like,
is the right answer for Richard Childress Racing,
also the right answer for Kyle Busch in that situation.
Yeah. And I think that all that becomes super interesting.
When you, when you talk about Richard Childress Racing
and, you know, I look at Colleague going to Dodge
and I see, you know, what they're going to do
on the, on the truck series program.
And Dodge has to have an engine program.
So those choices, you can either start your own
as a manufacturer like Toyota has done.
But who, how do we get this Dodge cup thing lined up
with who that can build an engine?
Right. And you're asking, is the ECR going to be?
Yeah. I mean, it has to be ECR.
I mean, Pinsky's got to have their old engine shop
still sitting around.
Right.
I mean, you know, could, I mean you look at somebody
like RFK, right?
And you look at somebody like Brad,
who potentially like could, could do it or find a way,
I think, to potentially do it.
You know, I've been asking people at ECR
and around that group, if there's potential
for them to do it.
And that's, they're still saying, no, we're Chevy team.
We've been a long time Chevy team.
Yeah.
And Richard's pretty loyal.
I hadn't thought about the whole RFK piece of it,
but I think when you look at trying to get out
from underneath what you've always been
to make it something better, the potential has got
to be there.
I would, I would assume if you're going to step out.
Yeah. And I mean, you would think,
I think the question is how much funding
will Dodge have to go cup racing, right?
Because, and that's not a cheap endeavor.
And, but cause look, even if another engine shop,
let's say you were going to an existing,
let's just say ECR, I mean,
they would still be building Chevrolet engines
for a little bit.
So you'd almost have to have some sort
of whole separate wing or separate building
to start doing that type of development.
When do you think that?
I mean, do you, do you actually think Dodge
makes it to the grid in 27?
No, I don't.
I think it's going to be 28, if at the earliest.
And where do you, I mean,
do you know where all the manufacturer alignments
are with teams as far as when they end
and when they don't end?
Oh, I'm not positive on those.
And, you know, those things tend to,
if somebody's news coming in,
those things can be worked out
cause you don't want somebody who's just
kind of sitting there, sitting there waiting.
But, you know, I think, you know,
you look at Dodge and I know that they were hopeful for 27,
but that just seems just such a way,
way aggressive time for them.
So what happens with Colleague in between there?
We know that they've, you know,
they're running their truck shop.
Do you think Chevrolet continues to support
the rest of the things that they do?
I don't know how much support they've been giving them.
Yeah, but you still got to get engines.
So, I mean, I think they will get engines.
I think there's still some question of how many,
if any, if any cars they run, you know,
because they obviously need it.
I think they were saying at least 50 people
for to run the truck shop.
So, you know, it'd be a lot easier to take some of your
people who are working on X-FINI
and move them over to that truck program.
So still some questions of how many X-FINI cars,
as far as cup cars, I think they can get engines,
but they won't be able to touch them at all,
even if they were able to touch them now.
It becomes difficult, like when you look at the simulators
and the simulation and all the things,
most all those things come from the manufacturer, right?
And in order to put that cup car on the racetrack,
the simulation has to work appropriately.
But if you don't have the programs
and things to put in it,
I know that they don't get a lot of support,
but it's still to make it function.
You're using this stuff either through RCR
or through the manufacturer.
So it definitely becomes a little bit tricky
to be able to understand how to put that car on the racetrack.
I will say if Ty Dillon is still there,
which I expect him to be there next year at college.
In the cup car.
Yes.
Yeah.
That, you know, you would think that with that
relationship, he can at least maybe get some,
some information, right?
You would think that that though
could be still a little bit of flow.
Talk to me about, talk to me about Ross Chastain.
And because when I look at the trackhouse dynamic
is interesting, right?
And, you know, I think when you look at at trackhouse
and Ross, I mean, that's what the anchor,
I mean, he's viewed as the anchor of the team.
Is that fair?
Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know, you see Zillich coming in,
you see a new crew chief coming in,
you saw him build the car for SVG
and bring Steven in to be the crew chief
and built a whole team around it.
They've done a great job with all the sponsorship
and everything that they do.
What do you think?
What do you think?
Because I would assume that his contract
is getting towards the end.
What do you think?
Does he stay at trackhouse?
Do you think that there's too many things
that have changed?
What do you think that whole dynamic turns into?
Yeah.
I want to say he has at least a couple of years left.
And again, I don't see Ross as a guy who likes a lot of change.
And he's the guy who I think is very comfortable
at trackhouse and I think he'll still be the anchor, right?
Like SVG is still going to be on a learning curve.
Zillich is still going to be on a learning curve.
I think the bigger question, Kevin,
is a few years ago we were always equating
like 2311 and trackhouse, right?
The new teams.
And seems that 2311 has continued
a certain level of performance in trackhouse.
It's been a little bit more, I would say, up and down.
Just maybe a tick behind.
And the question is are they,
as the bigger teams develop the next gen car
or develop ideas with the next gen car,
are they going to be able to keep up?
And you saw them obviously make
a lot of competition changes here
in the last few months.
I think it helps to do it.
I think that, so who do you,
you mentioned RFK as possible, Dodge.
We talk about trackhouse, talk about RCR.
I mean, do you see that just being one team?
When they originally start putting two cars
on the racetrack, four cars on the track?
I would think it'd be four.
Four teams.
Yeah, I think four cars is what you want.
Do you think it'll be one org at work?
I think it depends.
We'll go back to the start of this conversation
in the lawsuit and how many teams have charters
and how many cars each organization has.
I would say four to six is what you often hear.
If you can get six and have a four car team
and a two car team, then it's the legacy,
an organization that you would,
that'll be a three car team in 2027.
Yeah, so when you open up the charter conversation
and you bring a new manufacturer in,
does that not open the door for a NASCAR to expand the field?
Certainly opens door for them to,
they have the ability to issue 40 charters,
an extra four more.
So they sell those or they just give them away?
I think they can do what they want.
It's my understanding.
I do think,
I do, from what we've been able to gather
from the lawsuit and we hear bits and pieces,
but it almost sounds like that if you're a current team,
you have to be at least given the right to kind of bid on it.
But we haven't heard like whether NASCAR is obligated
to accept that bid.
So the new manufacturer coming in
could open the door for that.
Does junior motorsports ever wind up with a charter
when the ability for NASCAR to give them away?
Because there's nothing better for cup racing
than the Earnhardt family owning a cup car.
Yeah, I think,
it's open.
I give them one.
I mean, if I was NASCAR and Jim France,
I would give Dell Junior whatever he wanted.
And just for free, you'd be like, just do it.
I mean, I think it's open,
but from everything you hear out of that organization,
they don't want,
because they've had people come and talk to them
about investing and buying a charter,
but they want to run that program year to year
without losing money.
They don't want to look at the charter as something like,
okay, this is something that we can make,
we can lose $20 million over 10 years,
but then make it back when we sell the charter.
They're not looking at it that way.
And I think they would need to have the sponsorship
and the funding that they feel is necessary to compete.
Well, that's easy.
I mean, you've got Dell.
And I think that the workload that goes with it
would be the hard part.
That's a big bite,
but it'll be interesting to see how it all works out
because not only do you have the new manufacturer,
you've got the lawsuit with some undecided charters.
There's a lot of things that could make something swing
in a direction that we didn't see coming.
Is that fair?
That's very fair.
That's very fair.
Yeah.
And when you talk about NASCAR,
we saw him make some changes with the race director
this week with Juson.
He's out.
I don't know why he's out,
but we see that Chip Weil is moving on.
Are we on the front side of a restructuring from NASCAR
or are these just coincidentally at the same time?
I mean, I think those two are coincidental
at the same time.
We've heard indications that Juson wasn't performance related.
One, Chip is,
they've been out there,
he's been out there saying that
he's wanted to do something different.
So it's a great question, Kevin,
because every few years it does seem that NASCAR
does kind of reorganize things.
And I think with the lawsuit,
we're certainly seeing what some of the executives
are thinking that is,
and I think that it all kind of boils down
to probably what happens in the lawsuit
and when do they feel that Ben Kennedy is ready
to take even more of a role than what he already has.
And he already has a pretty big role.
And certainly if he were to get put in charge,
he's gonna wanna put his people
in certain spots.
Yeah, and I think it's probably not a bad time
to restructure.
I think when you look at the next JINCAR,
I don't think it's saved,
I know it hasn't saved anybody any money.
And when you look at the way that the car is raced
and the millions and millions and millions of dollars
that NASCAR has put in to try to change it
and make it better.
To me, it seems like it would be a good time
with the lawsuit and given the JIN7 car a few years,
would you agree or disagree with that
in order to kind of restructure some of these things?
I would probably wait and see if Honda
decides whether they're coming in, right?
They're still trying to make all the indications
to get from them is that the one thing they won't do
is do both IndyCar and NASCAR.
They'll do one or the other
and still think that,
I don't know that there's any timeline for a decision,
probably in the next year or so.
I would want,
who's ever working with these new manufacturers now,
who's working with Dodge and Ram,
who could be working with Honda if they come in.
I wouldn't want to,
unless I feel like that they're not doing
the job to get them in,
I would want to have some consistency there
in that direction as far as the competition side.
Yeah.
Well, it's an interesting time on a lot of fronts.
So I hope that I wish that they would
put a lot of horsepower on the cars
and just make them super sketchy to drive.
But we've all seen the challenges there.
I think they're gonna put,
it sounds like- You put a little bit in it,
but is there anything they're gonna put in it?
Well, everything that I've heard,
they put it in and the driver couldn't even tell,
that they changed the horsepower.
It needs a ton of horsepower.
It needs to be faster.
You go back and you watch those old videos.
And can you do that on the tires you have now
or are you gonna have to develop new tires for all that?
Yeah.
I mean, that's the cause and effect, right?
I think it's the cause and effect for the engine departments.
I think all the engine departments would probably do it
if they had the proper runway.
And that's the hard part about the position
that NASCAR is in now.
The question price goes up
because they're gonna have to raise the price
for the engine needs, right?
When they lowered the horsepower,
the price of the engines went up.
And because the valve train, it becomes so important.
And I just think that we're in a much-
It's supposed to go down
because you were using an engine more.
Nothing went down.
Nothing went down.
The engine bills did not go down.
And I think that's the ironic thing
about a lot of these scenarios.
But I think that technology and I don't think
we need to turn the engines 10,000 RPM.
But I think that the cars need to go faster
than they do today.
They should be the fastest cars
and they're hard to drive.
Don't get me wrong.
But every time we've taken speed out of the straightaway
and made the cars faster through the corners,
it becomes harder to pass.
It happened at the very first test
when we took horsepower out the first time,
cars immediately became harder to pass
because of the corner speed.
But we'll see.
And I know that that's a tricky question.
Last NASCAR question won't get us in too much trouble.
Where does the playoff format land?
Ooh, man, there's been push for 36 races.
But I just, I mean, I don't think
the last 20 years have been all that bad.
Yeah, well, here's my argument to that.
When we went to the one race for it all,
all or nothing, did the TV ratings ever go up?
Has the crowd ever gone up
because we have a championship race?
The hard parts of the TV ratings are going down.
Because people's general, what we don't have
is what was the cause of, you know,
because general TV viewing had changed.
Well, let's just forget the last three years.
But when we first started it,
was the last race the most watched race
because of the championship format?
Not that I ever remember.
But I mean, the thing is that,
as we talked earlier, the 10 race championship,
I thought, I'd love that.
I felt the one race has been,
while easy to understand,
is not the best way to crown a racing champion.
I think they'll go, you know, four or five race,
they'll have some sort of playoff
and then cut it down once to, you know, five or six
and you'll have four or five races is what I think.
The thing about the four race playoff
is I like the fact that you can take a super speedway,
you can take a road course, you can take a short track
and you can take an intermediate.
And, you know, may the best man win
that can put all those different styles
of race tracks together.
And it just flips the Roval and Las Vegas right now
on the schedule, right?
And you'd have that.
So that would be better.
Yes, it would be better than what we have currently.
Yeah, and then I think question is,
how much do you give for a win?
Yes.
You know, because you wanna get rid of these playoff points
because it's just too confusing.
And I think the other challenge for NASCAR
is to decide on whether they want to have
a certain number of drivers make the playoffs
or do you just say top 10 and points
and anybody who wins or do you say top,
say, oh, we only wanna have 12 or 14 and 16.
So is it top 10 and points?
And then two winners or four winners or six winners.
I think that's kind of a lot of the conversation
that they're having now.
Well, I told you it was gonna be the last question,
but I lied.
I just thought of something else
because when it sounds like the Super Bowl,
the NFL season is gonna get longer.
At some point.
Does the Daytona 500 have to be the first race
of the season or can we knock off some in January
so that we can end earlier?
It sounds like that NASCAR is pretty adamant
that the Daytona 500 will be the first race of the year.
And I don't see them going up against the Super Bowl.
What do you think though?
So I personally don't think it has to be,
but NASCAR has said that their fan polls
that they've taken want the Daytona 500
to be the first race of the year,
first points race of the year.
So I would say if, I mean, I haven't seen that survey,
but if that's the what the fans are saying,
I wouldn't want to change.
I'd have to find a new place to poll this.
I don't know who's on this poll,
but it seems a lot like the political polls
that are never right.
Maybe we need a broader scope of fans.
If you want to go, everybody talks about go back old school
and go 36 races, right?
There's a time when the Daytona 500
wasn't the first race of the year.
Yeah, we used to go to Riverside.
And I just think that football has become so popular
that it makes the dynamic very difficult
to compete against them at this point in the year.
So a lot of big things to have.
Last question, Bob.
Most important question of all,
what was your first car that you bought and drove?
Okay.
You're not going to get out of here
without the consistent guest question.
Well, were you prepared?
I mean, I've listened, I watch every week.
So I know that the question, what the question is
and the first car I drove was a hammy down
from my parents.
It was a Pontiac Phoenix, I think, at one of those.
But the first car I bought was from my older brother,
which was a blue Camaro
with some rust strategically placed on the hood.
So it didn't last all that long,
but it was enough to get me through college.
So did you sell it?
What happened to it?
Or did it just blow up?
Just let it burn.
I'm trying to think if I wrecked it.
Yeah.
So what you're saying is, are you a good driver
or a bad driver?
Those who can't, right?
So you're a bad driver.
I mean, I'm adequate.
Adequate.
You get yourself from point A to point B.
That's right.
Okay.
Well, I appreciate you taking the time.
I know that a lot of things are going on,
but there's nobody that navigates it better than you.
We're thankful to have you on our team.
So hope you enjoyed it.
Thanks for having me.
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