Bonus Episode - SL vs Stag - Roadtest!

This is the Tire Kickers, classic car chat with Max and Matt.

Welcome to a Tire Kickers special edition. It's the ultimate shootout. It's the Mercedes-Sel

versus the Triumph Stag. Why? Well, I've got a Mercedes-Sel. And I've just got a Triumph

Stag and I've been kicking the tires on Max's just to see if they'll fall off. But it's

Mercedes quality versus British Leyland quality, and that's going to be the test. But it's also

to get a feel of the cars, isn't it? A look at the cars. These were competitors back in

the 70s weren't they, Max? For very different money, we're going to try and suss out which

is best or whether they've both got their own qualities.

It's Coventry versus Stuttgart in the ultimate battle of roadsters.

Now, if you could have thought about that, this was actually the Stag was half built

in Liverpool, so it's Scouse versus Stuttgart. That's what it is.

So, look, how are we going to work this out, Max? What's the criteria?

This is a proper magazine-style road test. We're going to have lots and lots of different

tests. I mean, at the end we'll do a proper road test. Well, I'll drive yours and you

drive mine. But in between, let's do it other various quality tests. Let's see how

quickly, for example, we could put up the roof if it was raining. Let's see what

they sound like with the doors and the shutting of the boot and the bonnet. And

also, let's look at the stats. Let's do a top trumps of the two cars.

Starting with quality is not going to be my strong point.

Well, you've got here and it's not overheated yet, so that's a start.

Right, let's start with first impressions. I've just seen your Stag for

the first time and I'm very impressed with it because I do love the look of

a Stag. There's some things I've noticed. You haven't got the BL badges

on the flanks. Are you a bit embarrassed about it being a British Island car?

I've de-badged it.

De-be-el-ed it.

De-be-el-ed it. No, they weren't on it and I think it's been re-sprayed. Obviously,

I know it's been re-sprayed at least once, so I think they get lost, don't they,

in the things of time. But looking at the cars, so we've got Max's Red,

1980s, obviously one of the last of the productions of the 107s and the

My Stag, which is a late 70s, which is one of the last of the productions

of the Stags. Mine's a 78. It stopped making in 77. So these cars are

both a sort of end of life in terms of that. So they should be the best

that the cars offer. They should be. But also, I think it's important to stress

that the one on the left, which is yours, the red SL, it was, like for like,

twice the price of my brown Stag. You know, these were list price.

The Stag was, I think, 2000 and the early 70s yours was £4,000.

It was the price for two-bedroom house, so it better be good.

Quality costs, as we'll find out later. But let's just have a look at

your Stag, actually, because it is a really, really nice design.

Now, this was designed to actually compete against the Pagoda SL, not

particularly the R107. But it is a beautiful looking car.

This is a Mark II, so it's got the Mark II alloys, non-factory

colour, as I've banged on before, gold coat stripes down the side.

It's a very interesting looking design, isn't it? Because actually,

if you look at it in squint, it could be an SL. The designs are

remarkably similar. Yeah, it's interesting you say that they were

going after the Pagoda, the model before yours. But essentially,

if you put these two cars together, they are very, very similar, as

you say. It looks like they were nicking the ideas of this.

And when we come to stuff like the hoods and stuff, they're

very similar designs. So it was going for the market.

Look, the Stag was geared at America, as was obviously the

107. And this was designed, that's why it's got the V8 in it.

That's why it was designed for the States with luxury in

mind. Electric windows, power steering, adjustable steering column

in 1970. You know, that was that was unheard of for, certainly

for a British car. So I think when you get close to the cars,

this is where you start seeing the difference in quality. I think

the BL stuff is kind of a little bit more flaky looking than

your stuff. Your stuff, your chrome looks a lot more solid,

doesn't it? Any other first impressions you think?

I think the thing about the Stag is it's actually quite

small, isn't it? The headlights, for example, the

grille, the rear lights, it's all quite a small car.

I showed it to a mate, actually, and he said, Oh, wow, it's

went in real life. It's much smaller than I thought it looked

like bigger in the photo. It's quite a long car. If you come

around the back, the rear three quarters, it's kind of it's

like a third, a third and a third, isn't it? It's you

forget how small the Stag is. I mean, I'd say the driving

position for me is a six footer. It's a bit like sitting on a

ride on lawnmower. It's got that feel and everything feels

slightly descaled inside scaled down. But I think it's a

good looking car, isn't it? I tell you what it is. It's a 1970s

car. It reeks of 1970s because it's kind of hairy chested,

isn't it? I've said that before about it, but it's it's

quite a butch car. Do you think it's butch? I'm not sure if

it's butch. I don't know. It certainly reeks the 70s. You

know, there's vinyl and petrol that you can smell and

cheap wood. It's a funny looking car because it

driving it as you'll find out later, it does have that

sort of mini muscle car feel about it, but it's

very, very scaled down. Whereas when we look at yours, I

always forget how actually quite big the SLs are. You know,

certainly when you look at these two together, my car's

probably 25% smaller than yours, isn't it? It's a bit

wider. The doors are thicker. It's just a bit

brawnier. It's kind of like it's slightly more pumped

up. It's it is a lot like a German tank. You know,

they nicknamed the tank the Panzerweger. It is a bit

tank like it's quite solid and there's nothing

really delicate about the lines. It's a slab of

metal. Let's look at the size because obviously the

size of the cars is different. But what about inside

because, OK, so the cabin size, you've got a large void

behind the seats, which you can put bags in. And then

you've got the seats, which I've always had a problem

sitting in. We'll get into that in a minute. But

actually it looks quite big compared to mine. You

come over to the stag now, which is a full

seated, by the way, because mine's only a two

seat. So actually in a smaller car, you've got

two extra seats. Yeah, it's actually about the

same, isn't it? The seats in yours are a bit

more British. I've got great big fact German

back sides on mine. That's what it's designed for.

It's a big German businessman to go down a motorway.

Like for like, I mean, obviously a lot of S.L.s have

got the seats in the back, haven't they? But the

seats are not pretty useless, although I did put

my 15 year old son in here and he was quite

comfortable, actually. So usability probably

about the same, I would say. And yours has got

a kind of, what colour do you call that? I

hesitate to call it beige. It's more kind of

tan like, isn't it? It's almost kind of like

a cigar interior. Yeah, it's like a tan. It's

like a tan. If you bought like light tan shoes,

that's what they'd look like if they were

made out of vinyl from Coventry in the 70s.

And you've got obviously the teatop, which is

the big design difference between these two.

And having tooled round in yours this morning

as a passenger, it doesn't really have any

scuttle check. That teatop does work.

No, but it is ugly, isn't it? I don't think...

Yeah, it is. Yeah, I don't think it's the prettiest thing.

I mean, you don't notice it so much when

you're in the car, actually. Because obviously

you're sat looking forward. You don't notice

the teatop. It's quite good to hang on

round corners if you're going fast.

But I don't think it's a design thing.

It's particularly good. But it does make it unique, I suppose.

And there is a very British bolt-on show here,

which is just a fantastic bit of BL work, isn't it?

In the teatop, there's a big bolt-on show.

I mean, in a German car, that just doesn't really happen.

They've kind of engineered it all out.

But that's a very British solution.

But also a lack of thought as well.

I mean, there's certainly... Look, there's holes here.

So where does roof has gone down?

And it's inside the cubby bin here.

You know, they've left stuff on show,

the bit where the hardtop goes.

And so there's a hole here, a hole there,

a hole over there and a hole over there.

And your eye is drawn to the massive, great hole

where the roof mechanism is.

You can actually buy a little plug to go in there,

which takes your eye away from it.

But yeah, I mean, the quality's not bad.

If we get into the quality, the door chunk

we should do the teatop, shouldn't we?

Have a listen to this.

Yeah, well, let's have a listen to yours then.

Move over to mine. Right, so we've got ESL now.

Not much in it.

I think that's quite a lot.

Go on, do it again.

Stag, SL.

That's quite a thunk.

That is a thunk.

Telling about the quality again,

I mean, you've got holes here where they've not covered them up.

Yeah, but it's got nice chrome.

The difference is, I think,

and this is a typically British car problem,

particularly from the 1960s and 1970s.

They never really finished it.

They put out a car that was 90% finished

and let the customers do the finishing

of the design and stuff.

And this is a Mark II stag.

So like you said at the beginning,

this is the end of the production.

But they still, during the production,

they didn't do many tweaks to kind of finish the car.

And I think that's one of the things that's noticeable

is the bolts are on show,

particularly on the dashboard, the screws are on show.

There's gaps.

It's got that British quality,

which is it's been rushed out of the factory.

Well, yeah, and that's one of the things,

one of the reasons I didn't buy a stag for so long

was because the quality is a bit there.

The only benefit to that is, I mean,

like for example, in this one,

the clock doesn't work

because they don't in many classic cars.

But there's four screws on show

that I can get that dashboard out and fix it.

Whereas on yours, let's have a look, you know.

The clock does work though.

So I don't need to unscrew it.

That's the problem.

You try taking that console out without getting a bill.

You know, that's that center dashboard console

is going to be more complicated.

I can bet.

But I think the quality hands down

in the SL looks better.

What else do we test?

Boot sound.

Let's put my boot up and then drop it.

So we're on the SL.

Mm, okay.

I think you might win.

You have got the keys, haven't you?

Right, let's walk over to the stag.

Let's walk over to the stag.

It's got a German chunk here.

It's not bad, one more.

It's not bad, actually.

It's a lot lighter, isn't it?

It's better than an alpha, put it that way.

You don't have that sort of,

bing, come around to your SL again.

Open the driver's door.

Yeah, look, immediately you're seeing

on the side of the seats here,

it's all chromed out.

And the first impression,

and I think it's really important

when you open a driver's door,

that first impression is really important.

I think first impressions, obviously,

it's much, much better here.

Very, very similar design cues, though.

Look at the chrome on the top of the windscreen.

It's the same on both.

I tell you what I noticed about this car

when I first bought it,

and if you just leave that door open,

I'm just going to kneel down to it

and tap the piece of metal on the edge.

It's a solid chunk of metal that's involved in these.

You know what that knock is?

That's a large repair bill for anything on this car.

That's a mechanic knocking.

That's kind of like, oh, I've got that on mine.

No.

Don't shut that then.

The attention to detail in the SL is so much better.

You know, I'm talking about the Staggers in 90% car.

This is 100% car.

It came out of the factory, fully finished.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

I mean, I think the reason I bought a Stag is I bought the engine.

I want to have that V8 for a couple of years and enjoy that.

The rest is sort of so-so.

It comes in.

It's like the old joke with alphas.

You know, you buy the engine, you get the rest chopped in for nothing.

But it is, I agree with you.

It's a bit unfinished.

But bear in mind, when the Stag was built,

it was in the middle of industrial action.

It was British Leyland infighting.

You know, they made the body in Liverpool.

They shipped it to Coventry to get put together.

And in between that, they're on strike.

You know, so it never was finished

because they never finished a shift.

So things did get there.

You know, it's just a collection of terrible ideas.

Who makes a car in two separate locations?

Well, the Italians did it quite largely.

But in Britain, it's a rubbish idea

because we don't have good weather.

So, you know, a lot of these cars did rust

because the body was sat on a car transporter

going down the, you know, the M6.

The quality isn't there.

You know, if you start poking around, it's not there.

But sometimes the hole is greater

than the sum of its parts, Max.

So we'll see on the test drive,

which brings more of a smile to your face.

So here are the figures.

The figures will tell this story, I think.

Let's compare top trumps between the SL and the Stag.

So, first of all, your top speed is...

Drive Stag, 118 miles an hour.

Your top speed, Mercedes 300 SL, is...

121 to 126 miles an hour.

I don't know why there's a five-mile-an-hour gap,

but it's slightly fast.

I mean, not significantly, but slightly, isn't it?

It depends how fat you are,

because the Germans would be fatter, I suppose,

so it's slower. Right, on to the next one.

0 to 60. The Stag is claiming 9.5.

It was actually about 10.5, 10.7 when tested.

The SL is 9.1 to 9.6 seconds.

That's not much in it, is it?

Not much in it.

Economy, oh, dear, whoops.

Right, I could do this in reverse order.

Tell me your economy first for the Mercedes.

Claim between 23 and 30.

That's combined an extra urban.

Economy, 22.

Owners often see 20 to 26.

We'll put it this way.

The guy in the petrol station this morning

offered me a loyalty card.

So it literally can see the gauge going down

in the Stag as you drive it.

I've got the automatic.

It's probably doing about 18 to the gallon.

Yeah, you haven't seen 20 yet, have you?

That's incredible.

Curb weight.

Now, I've got a feeling I may lose this.

Your curb weight is?

Between 1250 and 1275,

and that's the difference between the brochure and the guide.

Yours is?

And the fat SL is between 1510 and 1540 kilograms.

That is, you know, 1,500 kilograms.

It is a big, heavy car.

OK, engine.

Mine of its Lee is the original three-litre Triumph V8.

145 brake horse.

Mine is the three-litre inline-six, the M103.

That's 188 horsepower.

Yeah, you're 10 years younger, though.

So they had, you know, they had time to put some extra horses in.

But then if it's the V8, it's still going to be more.

The 500 V8 is a bigger engine.

Yeah, well, let's get on to talk later on.

Gearbox in the Stag it came with a four-speed manual

and overdrive or the three-speed Borg-Warner Auto,

which I've got in mine.

Yeah, and I've got the four-speed auto.

So I don't think the autos are really that different.

There's not much between them.

So they're quite evenly matched as cars, aren't they, really?

Yeah, I mean, top speed 0 to 60.

You're not going to notice the difference.

You do notice the difference with the weight.

I mean, just being in your car this morning,

it does feel a slightly more nimble car, to be honest.

And I was following you here to our location.

And yours is kind of like going around the corners pretty quickly.

And mine is a bit more ponderous.

It's a big, heavy car.

You do feel that in the quality,

but that does mean you do feel it in the handling as well.

Yeah, it's not a sports car.

Neither of these cars aren't sports cars.

You sit in a sort of sporty position,

but they're not sports cars.

They're Grand Tourers, both of them.

Mine, with a heavy right foot, it comes to life a bit more.

Yours, looking in my rear view mirror on the way here,

I thought it was like driving Miss Daisy on the way up.

Very slow, but I think when you get an SL,

you slow down in life, don't you?

No, they're both very ponderous cars,

but under load, both will liven up, won't they?

It's interesting about this SL.

It's not a car you can position with accuracy on the corners.

It's slow, it's ponderous.

The steering doesn't particularly feel that accurate.

It doesn't really encourage a sporty drive in SL.

It's a relaxed cruiser.

And I suppose that's maybe slightly the difference,

isn't it?

I think the Stag, interestingly,

is a bit more of a sports car.

Yeah, I think when we get onto the drive,

we'll kind of feel that.

But I'll tell you what we should do next,

is we should start them up and see what they sound like.

Okay, time for the startup test.

I have a feeling you may win.

Right, that creek you could hear

is Matt just getting into his British Leyland seat,

giving off all that aura of quality.

Right, I'm going to walk round

and crouch down at the back of the Stag.

It's got two massive exhausts.

It looks like two 10-pound guns, to be honest.

So I'm just going to point the microphone

at the back of the exhaust and get it fired up.

Vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom.

Bollocks.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

All right, let's start your German taxi up,

see what it sounds like.

Right, Max is in position in his German cruiser.

Here we go.

Actually, that sounds surprisingly sporty.

Yeah, I mean, it definitely sounds like an inline six.

It's got to kind of rasp to it,

but your V8 Berbal just wins hands down.

So that's 1-0 to the Stag.

Actually, no, it's about 5-1 to the Merc, isn't it?

I'm afraid German is up quite a few goals at this point.

So the Stag wins on the exhaust note.

What next?

I've got the perfect test for Britain.

Yours is a British car.

In Britain, it rains a lot.

Let's see how quickly we can get the roofs up

when it's raining.

Ah.

So let's start with Max's SL.

You're sort of limbering up, you've stripped off,

you've got lightweight, taking your body warmer off.

Yeah, I'm going to do all my exercises

because I reckon this is going to be a championship-winning time.

This is quite good, this roof.

I'm quite impressed with it.

So have you got a clock on this?

Have you got a second clock on this?

Yeah, let me get my phone out

so we need some sort of stopwatch thing going on, don't we?

Here we go.

Right, stopwatch.

Are you ready?

Yeah.

So I'm going to be standing at the back

and I'm going to run round, open the glove box,

get the bits out, pull the roof up and get it done.

So stand by.

Let's just get the stopwatch ready.

Three, two, one, go.

Right.

Okay, so he's going into the front of the car now

in the glove box.

I think he's got two sort of metal levers

which he's got out now.

He's opening, going to sit up, got out the car.

He's opening the tonneau cover.

Inside is the hood there.

And that's coming up.

So it's a big thick thing.

He's back inside the car now.

This is what takes ages is getting these things lined up.

So once they have to be lined up like that,

pull it down, get your little tool out.

Oh, yeah.

I can see two tools from where I'm sitting.

Tool in, tool in.

Oh, yeah.

So he's adjusting both, both, yeah,

tightening both of the front of the hoods up.

So we come back, the tonneau boot is still up.

So the tonneau cover's going down.

You have a good old thump.

And then pushing the thing down at the back to the roof.

Finished.

Oh, okay.

So finished.

So that's 51 seconds.

That's quite good, isn't it?

I'm quite impressed.

Yeah, there's a couple of bits that I'm going to suffer on

because when I go to push the soft top in at the back,

it doesn't go a lot of the time.

Okay.

So I might have to have special dispensation for that.

Let's try the stag.

Right.

Matt isn't limbering up,

but have you done this before?

You've actually put the soft top up?

Yeah, I have put the soft top.

I keep the soft top down to be honest,

even in the garage.

But I do know how to do it.

I'm not sure that it's going to be as clean and German

and as efficient as yours,

but we'll give it a go.

Get ready.

Do it in three, two, one, go.

Right.

So he is going in through the passenger door.

He is pulling the tonneau cover up.

That's popped up.

The roof comes out pretty easily, actually.

Oh, no.

It's a bit stuck.

Oh, does that all right?

Yeah.

Okay.

It takes a bit of manhandling that, doesn't it?

I've got the things built in.

I've got the lever things,

but they're not particularly good because you have to

you have to look visually.

Oh, God, that's not right.

I need to go around the other side.

Go around the other side.

Hang on a second.

So the prongs basically have to go

into the front of the windscreen.

Yeah, they have to be lined up.

The prongs are proud.

Yeah.

So you have to line them up properly.

So this one, oh, that's round the wrong way now.

Yeah.

Right.

There we go.

That's one in.

Right.

That's the driver's side in.

Let's go around the passenger side.

The lever is in.

The lever just needs to be turned.

Right.

Okay.

So you see it's a little bit, it's,

oh, hold on.

Is that weight?

Yeah.

Line it up.

Okay.

Line up.

Right.

Go to the back.

The back.

Now I'm putting the tonneau cover down like yours.

And then this, I've got to release the catch here.

Oh, and around the other side.

Oh, there's a little fiddly catch.

You have to go around twice.

Both sides.

There are catches.

So all the way around the car.

There we go.

No, not down.

Do you have any push?

No.

I've stopped.

Okay.

Yeah.

That was one minute, 24 seconds.

And it's not, it's not secure, is it?

No, it's this, this little pin that goes in the back is not quite in it.

And I think you have to unzip the window and stand on it basically.

Is that a spring loaded pin at the back?

I think it might be.

Yeah.

I might have to have done it slightly the wrong way around.

I don't know, but it's, it's a bit more of a faff.

The end result when done is kind of similar.

The idea is the same, isn't it?

It's just like the British kind of cars.

It's just the execution.

It's just, and as you see, it didn't really come out the bin that cleanly.

But yeah, it's kind of, oh that was a bit fallen off there.

Oh dear, don't mind.

Are you okay?

Do you want to sit down?

Do you want an ambulance?

Yeah, I'll put you a bit out of breath actually.

I'll have to do that.

But you see what I had to do though, I had to run around the car a couple of times.

But it's all relative max, because in my old car, in the sixties car, that would

take 10 minutes.

No, but it's relative to the car that we're testing against, which is the SL.

Which is what, 51 seconds?

Oh, it's the clock still running.

It's still at 2 minutes 26 now.

So that's a win for the SL.

Right, road test time.

It's max going first.

He's going to drive the stag.

So max, you're on.

He's just walking up.

He's going to get in the car.

That indicators from a Sherpa.

Oh, you've got to be gentle with the indicators.

We need to give each other a bit of basic info.

For we start driving.

Be careful of the indicators.

They will come off in your hand if you're not careful.

When you put it into gear, it kind of lurches.

Otherwise, you're pretty.

He's trying to adjust the seat now.

This is just so BL.

I can recognize so many BL things about it.

If only you'd had those BL badges on the flanks like it should do.

Yeah, so it's very, very British.

The interior, I'm not a fan of the interior.

I just shut my door.

What?

Do you want to fire up?

Now, the other thing I need to tell you is for some reason in this car,

the key works backwards.

So you turn the key towards you to start.

See, I quite like this interior.

You don't like stag interiors.

I really do.

It's got that great kind of like multifunction gauge

that lights up with different problems.

It's probably quite important in this car.

But actually, I think it's a kind of like a light, spacious interior.

Now, my interior, the merc interiors,

particularly are always quite dark.

This isn't.

This is nice and bright.

That V8 purple is great, isn't it?

So it's three shunts,

and you'll feel it lurching to drive.

It should be in part,

but it's indicating it's in the middle.

It should be in part,

but it's indicating it's in reverse for some reason.

But it's in park, isn't it?

It is, yeah.

Three, donk.

There you go.

Donk.

Great.

And you're off.

Easy.

You see, automatically,

even within like three or four yards,

the steering is a lot lighter,

and it feels more nimble.

This is a more nimble car than an SL.

Brakes are nice and heavy.

You get a nice response from the engine when you're revving.

And this is just like ticking over now

just 15, 20 miles an hour.

And it's a lovely, lovely smooth engine.

All right, let's use this Sherpa indicator.

There we are.

I recognize that sound.

Oh, that V8, that is nice.

So you get a little shunt in the gearbox as you do it,

and under lighter load,

you notice more of a shunt under heavy load.

You don't notice it so much.

We're going right here.

So I'm doing a driving test.

You need some lessons.

I bet you haven't had somebody this talented

in the car for a while.

So we're on a long straight road now.

Give it some beans if you want.

Oh, there's the gear change.

So three speeds.

So really it doesn't change gear that much, does it,

with three speeds?

But it picks up all right, doesn't it?

Do you notice the bonnet lift as you put your foot down?

I do, and I notice it's just a lot lighter car.

You can feel a lack of weight compared to mine.

It's a lot lighter.

We didn't shut that tonneau cover properly.

Squeaking in the background.

Sorry about that.

We're going to listen to this.

Right, coming up to a roundabout.

We're going to go left here.

Nice brakes.

Oh, there's a Ferrari 360 Spider coming past.

Shunting into seconds.

Round we go.

See, lovely light steering.

This is just really, really nice.

It does remind me of a lot.

Follow the Ferrari.

Three-hour sports cars right now.

We won't keep up with it.

Let's do our best.

Once you're into that top gear,

it's lovely and smooth.

There's plenty of torque to it.

You get a really nice view out of the bonnet

that rises and falls every time you accelerate and brake.

It's got that 1970s feel.

It just feels like a proper 70s sports car.

That's 3,000 revs and 60 miles an hour.

That's quite nice.

I mean, it is a nice engine.

I know these engines have a reputation for being troublesome,

but it is a beautifully smooth VA.

It's got that sort of mini muscle car feel, isn't it?

Yeah, definitely.

I mean, it does feel.

It sounds American.

The steering's a lot lighter than American muscle cars,

but the engine has got that muscle car feel.

Let's just pull here to a roundabout.

Accelerate away.

Second gear.

Climbing 2,000, 2,500, 3,000 rpm, 40 miles an hour.

There's the change.

Back down to 2,500 revs, 50 miles an hour.

On the brakes.

Yeah, this is actually really, really nice.

I used to drive a lot of stags,

and I remember them quite well,

and this is bringing back the memories of the good ones

and not the bad ones.

So we're pulling up now next to your SL

and, you know, in a nutshell, what do you think?

I really like it.

It's brought back some very good memories of stags

and also triumphs in general,

because triumphs do handle,

and this is a nice handling car.

Just the gearbox is just a bit period,

but everything else is really good.

OK, let's jump in the SL.

Right, I'm settled in the passenger seat of my SL.

Let's just close the door.

Now, Matt is heading over to have a drive of my SL.

Knowing Matt, he'll be moaning about not being able

to get into this car properly.

Stand by for some huffing and puffing.

I can't get my legs in.

Right, does the seat go back?

Probably not, does it?

No, now this is...

Should do you?

Give it a shot.

No, it's stuck against the thing.

So in an SL, if you've sat in an SL at R107,

you notice you're quite head up

against the windscreen in this, aren't you?

I feel like the dashboard's right in front of me,

and the stag is sort of a little bit set back.

But it's still OK, to be honest.

I kind of feel that when I've been in SLs before,

I've just felt that my head's poking out the top,

but having had the stag, it's not much different, is it?

But the thing that hits you when you get in here,

first of all, is the quality.

This, as we said, is an 80s SL,

so this had all the refinement,

but essentially it's the same design,

but you just notice the dashboard is better quality.

Everything, all the fixtures and fittings look better quality.

The steering wheel is massive.

You know, it really is big.

I mean, it's rubbing against my leg here,

but that's just how they were.

But everything just feels more expensive,

which it was. It was double the price.

Let's fire it up and see what it's like.

Oh, hold on.

Need a bit of throttle when it's hot.

OK, so it's quite muted.

It's quite lethargic, this engine, you know,

because you actually have to rev it a lot

when you're moving out of it,

and the accelerator's quite, it's got a lot of resistance,

so you don't immediately feel like revving it.

There's a bit of travel in it, isn't there?

If we do it.

It does sound very modern, the engine, actually,

compared to, you know, certainly,

I've driven a V8 one of these,

and that sounds a bit more old-fashioned.

This sounds a bit more modern.

It's quiet. The sound deadening is obviously here.

It's, you know, you're not,

it's not quite so much of a in-your-face experience

of driving the Stagg. It's a lot more refined.

It's inter-reversed. We'll reverse out this space we're in.

Oh, it's straight.

You've got the power on straight away,

and it does feel, it feels like a modern car, this.

I've got to say, you know, for a classic looking car,

it feels much more modern.

It's much heavier for a start.

Let's put it into drive.

Now, I'm having a problem with my feet.

I've got size 12 feet. I've got deck shoes on,

but I'm getting the foot core

between the throttle and the accelerator.

There's not much room in that footwell.

But pulling forward, it's very refined

and very relaxed.

It's not as quiet as a

a theme-part ride. It's a Stagg,

it's much more refined.

I think the steering on this car

feels a lot heavier than your Stagg,

and all the control weights, the accelerator, the brakes,

even when you're putting it into automatic gear,

it just feels thicker,

to be honest, more solid.

Yeah, it's heavier. It does wallow a bit, though.

It's a bit, a little bit boat-like

in terms of the way it goes down the road,

and the Stagg I would expect to be much more wallowy.

But as you say, everything's more weighted up.

You do have to give it a lot more

on that accelerator to get it going.

So we're just pulling up

down a long straight road now,

and you can hear it change. It does lurch a little bit

in the gears like mine does.

But it sits on the road quite heavy.

It feels a heavier car.

Yeah, it's certainly not a sports car, is it?

Because even just accelerating there

with the Stagg and we're up to sort of

3,000, 4,000 revs,

on this car we're taking over at about 2,000,

3,000. It doesn't actually

encourage you to go any faster.

No, it doesn't. I'm sort of standing on the throttle

to get it going, to be honest. So it'd be interesting

to see when we hit this dual-carriage way

which we're coming up to, to see what it's like.

Now, again, I've got sort of,

not a lot of room.

Yeah, it's a bigger car,

but there's not a lot of room.

I mean, the indicator stalks rubbing against my leg.

I'm having to stand on the throttle a little bit

just to get around the thing.

But you just get used to stuff like that.

Fantastic. But it's very,

I'd say it's very luxurious.

The seats are

a lot more

comforting, supportive.

We've got an Audi trying to take us here.

I think we might back off, actually,

because I haven't got the confidence in your car

to do that. Let's give it...

What's the kick down like?

OK.

OK, so when you kick down, it doesn't exactly

lurch forward, but it then puts the power on

and you feel it slowly increase.

It's not fast at all, and actually

with this throttle, you have to be quite violent

with it. You have to stamp on

the throttle before you get it to do anything.

And that's what's noticeable about this car.

You kind of need to wake it up.

Yeah, it does take a bit of waking up.

I've just come out of a roundabout.

I've got somebody up my bum, so I was just trying

to put the power on to get away in it.

The car was like, give me a second.

I'm just idling around around about here.

Just don't disturb me. And then he went,

OK, let's do it. So it does take a while

to pick up. However, I think

once you're on the move, it's a much, much

more refined experience.

You know, I can see, you can imagine

doing long journeys in this.

I just don't think it's necessarily the play

thing that staggers.

It doesn't really enjoy the corners.

You don't really enjoy doing the corners,

isn't it? It's a kind of straight line

I wouldn't say drag stick, it's not

very fast, but it's a straight line experience.

It's a cruiser.

Yeah, I agree. But what I've done while you

were looking at it is I've put my arm out

the window. And I think it is a very

relaxing car. So within a couple of minutes

of driving it, I'm already arm out the window.

I'm steering with one hand. I feel

quite relaxed. I feel like

it's really solid. And I know I'm in a

good looking car. And I know

that this will get me where I need

to go. The stag is more of a

classic car experience, I think.

Every journey is

a journey of optimism, really, about

what you're going to get. As it is in

this field, more German and more reliable.

Whether that's at a payoff

of the kind of

performance or the

what's the word? Well, fun. Yeah, it's a thrill.

Whether that's the expense

of the thrill of the car, I'm not so sure.

But I think this is

a beautiful car. I mean, we'll get to the conclusions in a minute.

But in terms of driving it, we're back now on

a sort of long straight road.

I'm just doing over 30 down here

and it's under load, it's fine.

But it is interesting that

throttle, you do have to all stand on it to get it to move, don't you?

It's a lovely drive.

It's a really lovely drive, but it's interesting how

different it is because these cars

were competitors, but they're both very, very

different. Right, time for some car magazine

road test style

conclusions.

Right, engines off.

I think the stag is a great

concept car, but just the concept wasn't

finished, which is a shame, because like so

many BL cars, the actual

design behind it, the idea

behind it was brilliant. I mean, nothing short

of brilliant. To put a home

grown V8 in a relatively light

sports car, give it four seats

and make it look really nice.

What a great concept. But if only

they'd executed it right. If only

that engine didn't have problems, if only

to be honest, they'd got it right in the first place

and then developed it throughout the eight years

of production because that's what they did with the SL.

They started off with the concept

and they kept developing it right

to the end. Yeah, as you said

with the stag, too many cooks, wasn't it? Too many cooks,

too much politics, too many

people involved, born in a bad situation,

never quite finished off.

Yeah, I love the stag design. I think it's ugly

and beautiful in the same measure, but I do think the 107

is probably one of the prettiest convertibles

built and I probably go with the 107.

That's interesting because after

driving the stag, I think the stag is a much

better sports car. It's more

nimble, it's more alive, it's got better

steering, it accelerates better and the engine

is more interesting. That

V8 is a really interesting engine.

Yeah, I agree. I've got one last criteria.

You've got the mic, get ready to drop it.

Fun. Which of these

cars is more fun? You'd have to define fun.

I mean, I had a lot of fun in your stag

because it reminds me a lot

of BL products of the 1970s

which I love. So I had a real laugh

in your stag, but I've got

about an hour and a half to drive home along the M4

so I wouldn't take it home.

Yeah, it's very true. It's

different and I think fun

is relative. I think I could

own your car and have a lot of enjoyment

with it. I just think

with the stag, I want to put my foot down a bit more

in it. In terms of smiles, I think, I mean, they're both great

cars, don't get me wrong. I would have

either of these in a heartbeat, but I

think the stag, there's something about the stag that when you put

the foot down and you hear that note out of the exhaust,

you smile. Whereas

your car is a bit more muted,

it's not designed to pleasure comes from

the refinement and the enjoyment. I think you're

right. I had a good time in your stag. I had

a lot of fun, but I'm going

home on a motorway and I'm going to take mine because

I know it's going to get me there. I think the SL

wins out overall.

The stag though, I think it's the engine

and the sound of it that really just pips it.

You won that sound competition.

Hands down. The straight six just

doesn't sound as good. That is an amazing

sounded car. And for, you know,

classic car drivers, that's a big part of the fun.

Exactly. I mean, there's a dirty diesel

just come past as we're talking here and

you know, that sounds rubbish compared to

these cars. These cars sound not your straight six sounds great,

but the stag that V8 does

sound. Oh, it's just brilliant

sound, isn't it?

So that's it. Stag versus

SL. We've come to a kind

of conclusion, I suppose.

Yeah, it's a bit of a knockout for the SL

in terms of overall,

but I still think the stag is a great car. What do you think?

Have you owned a stag? Have you owned an SL?

Have you owned both of them? Can you compare them?

Do let us know in our socials. We're at

the Tire Kickers UK on Instagram

and the Tire Kickers, three separate words

on Facebook. And we will put up loads

of photos from this group test. You'll get to

see the cars. You'll get to see them

part next to each other. So do have a look

on that. Do comment on that and do get

in touch. But until next time, it's bye from me.

Goodbye.

music

Bonus Episode - SL vs Stag - Roadtest!

BMW M6

Mercedes-Benz Mercedes 300

Ferrari 360

About this episode

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