Call 911: I Bought A 996 Runny Egg Porsche Cabriolet

You are listening to the analog and grit podcast.

I'm your host, Victor Troyer.

Who do we have today?

We got Dylan here again, and I'm Dan.

Really, Dan and Mainstay Dylan.

Dan, welcome back to the podcast.

I was glad to have you on.

Good to be back.

So today, we're going to be talking Porsches again.

We talked about this a few weeks ago with Nick,

the Sudmuffin, since he bought a 996.

And I just bought myself a 996.

So I said, why not do an episode on Porsches

again, since Mr. Dan here also owns a 997, 911,

and Mainstay Dylan with the Geostorm.

So we've all bought a car recently.

So I figured we could talk about that.

And then some events at Analog and Grit.

So let's get started with that, Dan, if you don't mind.

Yeah, yeah.

So the next big event coming up

is Cartober Fest, which is the end of October.

We're going to do a beer hall here at location

at the Analog and Grit headquarters,

3094 Commercial Street.

But we're going to have Mike Hess beer.

We're going to have pretzel toss.

We're going to have all kinds of little German games,

like the darts, the lawn darts, and all that type of thing.

And then, yeah, it's going to go like an evening.

You getting that, too?

Yeah, we're getting that.

I don't know what it is.

Yeah, it's going to be an afternoon evening thing,

your typical October Fest.

That'll be October 25th on Saturday.

And we're going to have a bunch of different vendors there.

Cars and bids is coming.

Obviously, Mike Hess, we're going to have some pretzels there,

pretzel vendors, that kind of thing, too.

So it's going to be super fun.

A bunch of German cars parked around.

If you wear leaderhosen, your ticket is free.

So we're really trying to push the vibe.

If you can show up in, what's it?

Not in costume, but in the right apparel.

OK.

And members are not.

So members still have to do.

Members get a discount.

We'll be pushing that out through our email,

through our email blast.

So you'll get a special code.

And it's leaderhosen, is the pronunciation.

Yes.

Gotcha.

OK, cool.

So that sounds exciting.

I know you mentioned Chuck Waller, a race day.

You mentioned that the last time you were on the podcast.

So tell us more about that.

I know you said quarter one.

Yeah, yeah.

So initially, we were tracking for quarter two or quarter four.

But we're going to try to get quarter one,

just because I want to make sure that as many people as possible

can attend.

So Friday is probably the day that we're

looking at for Chuck Waller.

That'll be extended to members at a discounted rate.

You can bring your friends.

They'll be paying the full price.

But yeah, tracking for $300, kind of in that ballpark

for a full track day.

And it's open track.

So you can bring your own car.

You can try one of our cars.

We're going to have a race car there,

maybe a couple of race cars.

So you can just come and hang out.

We're going to be grilling and chilling, as we always do.

And yeah, it should be a lot of fun.

OK, we have a special guest today with Mr. Patriot here.

The Patriot, the analog and grit Doberman.

Yeah, yeah.

He's our guard dog whenever I bring him around.

Just adds the vibes.

It's like GTA vibes, you know,

when you're sitting on a car with the dog on the leash.

Yeah, yeah.

I told him, I said, his dog is like the typical junk yard,

or what's the Snoop Dogg dog in all of his videos.

He's got the look, for sure.

Yeah, but he has the look, but he doesn't

have the personality of a Doberman, which is cool.

It kind of changes my perception of Dobermans.

Definitely, definitely.

I immediately think, oh my god,

I need to be scared of this dog right now.

Just because I've been conditioned

through social media and the media in general my whole life.

Dobermans, Rottweilers and Pipples, right?

Like they're the three most, like I would say, feared dogs.

Yep, yeah, and to be fair, a lot of people who I talk to

are like, oh, back in the day I got bit by a Doberman,

but I still think they're sweet dogs.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, he is, he's a sweetheart.

He doesn't have an appetite for license plates.

That would make him a real like car club dog

just chewing on a license plate all the time.

Yeah, apologies for the noise.

I have a feeling that's the power wash.

I'm not sure.

That could be, because he's detailing that 9-11.

I wonder if we can close that sliding door.

Last time, remember, we had that at Analog & Grit

and it helped tremendously.

The sliding door, like the big one.

Oh yeah, it's definitely something coming from the outside.

Oh, it's out front.

Oh, okay.

Gotcha.

Interesting, that's pretty loud.

All right, well, the show must go on.

Of course, it literally started right

as we started recording.

Yeah, yeah, perfect timing.

That's the benefits of, oh, they're cutting concrete

outside on the curb.

Mm.

Oh man.

That'll do it.

They're cutting concrete.

They're cutting up the road all right.

Oh my goodness, okay.

I see.

All right, well, the show must go on.

So appreciate the events update

and then as far as new cars

that are back here in the garage.

So you just got your Datsun back.

So tell us about it.

Yeah, so it's been a year in the making.

I've had this car since 2019

and it had kind of like a garage paint job on it

and finally it got to the point where

it was single stage, so it just was fading

and I met a guy who I took a leap of faith

and I was like, all right, he drove my car

across the border.

We did a full, basically restoration,

glass out, rust repair.

I was going to get the interior done

and more on that.

But yeah, it's a really nice two stage paint.

It was a wet on wet painting.

So they did like the sealant, the primer

and then the paint and then the clear.

So it was a really, I say it really well done.

The body work itself took eight months or so.

And then once it was painted,

it was painted back in like early late June.

Then it was just assembly.

So now it's back.

That was a bit of an arduous journey yesterday

because it was about 85, 90 degrees at the border.

So driving back across,

something happened with the wiring

where I had no brake lights, no headlights,

which was fine during the day,

but no mirrors because we hadn't put the mirrors on.

I basically, I told them, hey, let me just get the car back.

I'll finish it on my end

because their interior guy got sick.

He's been down for about a month.

So I kind of got to the point where I was like,

I just need to back over here.

I'm gonna finish it off kind of the way that I want,

which I think is good because then I can really give it

the little attention to detail in the interior

that makes it feel more premium.

So yeah, it's fully dinamated.

And this is a, sorry, this is a 72 510 four door

with a turbo KA Nissan motor in it.

So it scoots.

It's a really fun highway cruiser.

It's got nice tall gears for that.

And yeah, coilovers.

But yeah, I mean, it was an experience for sure.

I ended up paying like all out the door, eight grand

for the job.

There was some kind of extras in there.

They found some extra rust, some of the interior,

but they ended up refunding me for the interior

and kind of for the inconvenience as well.

So I got a partial refund on that, which,

you know, there's pros and cons.

I don't know if I would recommend it.

The guy that is doing it now,

he isn't taking any more work

because he's now working at Ferrari of San Diego.

So yeah, I think my 9-11 is down there

getting painted the bumpers.

And that's kind of the last job.

Wait, so this gentleman that you took your car to

in TJ in Tijuana is now working at Ferrari of San Diego.

So that delayed your car getting fully painted

and restored.

So it's a family business.

So he was kind of the project manager.

And then his dad was the project manager at the shop.

And then they have, you know,

they have a team of four or five down there.

I'm not sure why he's stopping

because I could see them doing it without him,

but that was the kind of decision.

So.

I see, interesting.

So for people that are listening

that never brought a car to another country

to get worked on on it,

what would you say the process looks like?

So obviously you reach out to this person

either online or through WhatsApp.

I don't know.

I mean, obviously it's in another country,

but I imagine they're not too far from the border.

No.

Right?

Trust the fact that you're gonna cross the border

and drop it off at this body shop in another country

and for a heavily discounted price,

fix your car to the standards that obviously,

you know, you're okay with, right?

It's not like it's gonna be a bad job

because it's cheaper.

It's cheaper just because the labor's cheaper.

Yeah, so my ultimate decision to go with this guy,

I saw two of his cars.

One was a suburban, a lot like yours.

It was a GMT 800 actually.

And then they had like an M6 that was like black on black

that was like really well done.

It was the M6 Grand Coupe.

And I saw those two jobs and I said,

okay, like this seems to be like reputable,

went down to their shop.

They have a guy who was like the district attorney

of Mexico was like their main client

and just supported them for years.

So like half the cars down there are his.

So I think that's part of the reason why

they don't need more work.

It's kind of just a passion project

and they're just doing this guy's stuff mostly.

But that was the initial decision.

I met him in person and then we decided

to work out payment and yeah,

he just came and picked it up and drove it across.

I put an air tag in it.

That was my only kind of,

that was my only like insurance.

I have insurance, but I don't know

if they would even cover it.

It was like, hey, the car got stolen.

It's in Mexico.

Like I wouldn't claim that.

They do.

I remember when I took a trip down

to Valle de Guadalupe for, I think it was a birthday.

And the first thing I did,

cause I was taking my car was ask my insurance.

Like what happens if I get into an accident there?

Like would you guys cover it?

And this is through state farm I could speak for.

They said as long as it's within

I think like a hundred miles of the border,

like they'll cover it.

But once you go past the border,

cause I guess to them they suspect people

will cross like nearby just for whatever reasons.

Cause it's Southern California state farm.

There's like a different like version

in like this Northern California insurance.

Like they actually split it.

Well, at least AAA I know does as well.

So anyway, they were like,

yeah, as long as you're within a certain amount of miles.

That's funny because you know, you see,

like if you've researched driving in Mexico,

they're always like,

oh, you have to get special insurance when you cross.

I don't know if you've seen that.

Yeah, I was actually in San Isidro last weekend.

And the closer you get to the border,

you start seeing these little strip malls

that have these shops that say like Mexico insurance,

you know, quick sign up $25 a day or whatever.

Yeah, it's just to get people that don't know,

or they don't even have good insurance.

Like I imagine if you had it,

if you had to put a water bottle

on the hood of your car to get your insurance policy,

chances are you're not going to be covered in Mexico.

Even though the people like Fred Lawyer

and who's the other one,

like there's like an insurance with a girl's name.

I forget the name of it,

but it's one of those, you know, cheap insurances.

So, all right, awesome.

So you were able to get the car obviously

for a discount, painted fully, you know,

and I would say it looks like it's fully restored,

at least cosmetically, on the outside.

Fantastic, there's like one or two blemishes

that might be able to come out with a little bit

of buffing, maybe a little wet sand in an area.

But honestly, like the way that they lined up

all the body lines,

I brought them a couple replacement parts

that they had to weld in,

like a roll pan, my roll pan was rusty.

Couple little things here and there

that are really easy to find,

but the hardest thing right now is like

all the chrome trim, it looks pitted and like a little older

with the paint being so good,

that like honestly, if you really wanted to go all the way,

you'd re-chrome the bumpers,

you'd get all new chrome trim and everything like that.

I had the door handles just painted black

because they were really pitted.

I might re-chrome those at some point,

but that's where you can go down a rabbit hole

really quickly, so that's the next thing

is getting all the seals kind of back in it

and I really just want to get it kind of ripping around

and driving, I have like a laundry list

of other little mods and things to do to it.

It's never finished, right?

That car, yeah, doesn't matter what car,

any car, it's never finished.

There's always, you always want to do what's next,

the Domino effect.

Yeah, so for the Geostorm, right?

I've been telling him, I feel like he needs to paint,

because my thought is he has a car that's a survivor.

It didn't full victim to Clashford Clunkers, right?

It's a car that you rarely see, right?

Obviously, it's a head turner at cars and coffee,

even at the most affluent cars and coffees

like Rancho Santa Fe, so my thought

is it's worth to get that car back to a look

that resembles what it looked like

back when it was brand new,

because the interior is perfect.

It's like nearly perfect.

And the paint color is so cool.

Right.

What color, do you know the name of it?

I don't know it off the top of my head,

but it's actually a metallic color, believe it or not.

It's like Colgate Mitt Metallic or something.

Yeah, you can brush his teeth with it.

But I was thinking that I wanted to kind of play

on the color and maybe contribute to it

by doing like a purple or a pink kind of swish graphic

on the side, almost like a Styrofoam cup.

Something subtle, a graphic just on the door,

small side graphic.

And it does need a little bit of body work.

So I'll have to just kind of explore paint options

when I'm ready to do that.

But I definitely want to do it on low.

I don't want to spend a lot of money on that car,

but I would love to make it look just a little bit prettier,

bring back some of the sheen since it appears

most of the base coats in good shape.

It's just fall in subject to clear coat failure.

Right.

So like let's say he goes to TJ, right?

Says, hey, I just want a respray, right?

Obviously it's all there.

It just needs to be resprayed, you know,

because the car has all this clear coat failure.

What do you think they charge?

So I think four glass in, you know,

just a mask everything off and just spray it as it is.

Two to three grand.

It just kind of depends on the paint can get expensive.

So like for me, I went all over Tijuana

to all the different paint shops to try to find my color.

I ended up, we ended up getting in contact

with a guy in Mexico City who found the original color.

He was like a Japanese dude living there.

Oh wow.

That's kind of a funny story.

And then they were able to ship that paint up

to get it all matched perfectly.

So I see.

Your color might be easy to find.

They have booklets that's actually kind of fun

to flip through based on the year and stuff like that.

But yeah, you definitely want it to match

as best as possible.

You don't want to change that color.

So Dylan and I had talked about this before,

the cheap option, which is worth trying if you're gonna,

it's like $150 to get the kit is like a poppy's patina

or some kind of wipe on clear coat.

I think Derek, vice grip garage has his own as well.

So what I did with the 510 before I painted it

was I did a little wet sand and then washed it clay bar,

iron remover, all of that type of thing.

And then I did a wipe on clear coat.

Now I put too much catalyzer in it

so it got really hard and streaky.

But if you get the measurements right,

I've seen some results that are like, you're like,

what, that's just like a wipe on clear

that I think would work really well.

And you said you're on board with that.

Yeah, totally.

You were the first person who I talked to

about wipe on clear coats

and I've since seen a couple more.

And it always seems like it's mixed results

but everybody who I've talked to

who just like followed it very like scientifically

like was able to achieve a pretty good result.

So I think as long as you just stick to the rules

to a tee, just follow the recipe

then it can turn out pretty good.

Do the low vis areas first

and then do the high vis areas.

I was like all excited.

So I like immediately got on the roof

and the hood and stuff like that.

And that ended up being the worst part of it.

Everything else, once I dialed it in

actually got pretty good.

So yeah.

So what does it do?

It just like makes a clear coat failure

look more presentable?

So it's wipe on clear coat.

So you're putting a layer of clear coat

kind of like paint and you're just wiping it on

and you have like a little sponge

and you run the sponge across in lines.

And if you put it on thick enough

it doesn't create streaks.

The whole idea is that it lays flat.

It's kind of like self leveling to an extent

if you get it right.

Yeah. And you prep the surface right

and you get all the contaminants out of there.

Interesting.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean it's worth doing

just simply for the fact that you're maintaining this car

to look the way it looked from brand new.

From factory so that when people see it

it's not like, oh, this guy's down on his luck.

This is a cool car enthusiast man, right?

Cause like that's the only reason

why they're going to think you're down on your luck

because of the simple fact that it's

not in the best condition.

Yeah. And also because I'm missing a hub cap

and have mismatched lug nuts.

But we gotta put some sick wheels on there.

Yeah. Once you got it painted

then you can start fixing the other little things

or even do the other way around, right?

Fix those things first

then you're going to want to get a painting.

The plan is get my suspension dialed.

I just ordered a max speed coilovers off of Subaru and Prezza

and those you can re-drill the bottom holes

on the perches and they fit.

So since there's really no suspension options

stock or aftermarket for that matter, for the Geo

you have to just find something to retrofit.

Hot rotting.

Exactly.

And another funny thing is

I have a question for you guys.

What do a Geo Storm and a top fuel dragster

have in common?

I don't know.

A shift light.

You got a shift light in there.

I got a shift light in RX-8.

It says U slash S, upshift.

Oh, nice, nice.

They're like, this thing is slow.

You're going to be banging it off the rev limiter.

Little Easter egg.

Nice.

That's funny.

I had one in my 92 YJ.

It was just a little arrow that would go up.

Oh yeah.

For economy though.

Not to squeeze out maximum power.

Let's be clear here.

Of course.

All right.

So I want to move on to what we're here to talk about

which is Porsche 911s.

So I had to wipe some runny egg yolk off my face.

No pun intended.

So during car week we had a podcast

and I, what did I say?

I was like, everybody raise your hand

if you want a 911.

I was like, you know, in teacher mode apparently.

And we saw so many 911s at car week.

I mean, at the time, I mean, they analog and grit drove up

with like 18 911s or something like that.

Or 16 GT3 RSs.

I mean, yeah, turbos, all the good stuff.

No base models even.

But my point is, is there were so many there

that for me as a car enthusiast

that always liked having,

always liked having some rare and obscure type of cars.

Even though they're not expensive,

they're just unique, especially Alfa Romeo's

that are mainly a boutique brand, right?

Like not everyone knows about Alfa Romeo

because we never really had them in the States

for like a good, what, 15, 20 years,

they went on a hiatus.

So my point is, is I always wanted something

that no one else had.

So 911s are not that.

911s aren't rare.

They make, I mean, obviously the track focused ones are,

but they make so many of them.

Like I even looked up what 996 or 911s,

what the total production were.

It was like almost 200,000.

So anyway, my point is, is I feel like I didn't buy him

or didn't care for him simply because of that, right?

Like, why am I gonna buy a car that everyone has?

You see him all the time.

It's not a head turner.

But then I thought, okay,

because Jase even brought it up to me.

He was like, have you ever driven one?

And I was like, I've driven a Cayman, you know?

A more modern Cayman for a good amount of time.

There was a stick and I've driven in them

never like really spiritedly drove one.

So I said, okay, if I'm gonna knock them,

I'm gonna need to own one

and need to be able to like experience one for myself.

And I already knew that there were gonna be great driving cars

because while no one would,

hundreds of people wouldn't be lying, right?

So I know that.

But at the end of the day, was it like worth the money?

So I looked at 996 values

and saw that they're still pretty low,

especially after Nick bought his.

And I'm like, okay, well, for the value,

that's not bad for a luxury sports car

that is somewhat track focused.

So one came across obviously a good deal, jumped on it.

So now I'm the owner of a 01 Porsche 996 911, Carrera 4,

Cabriolet, unfortunately, but it is a six speed.

Yes.

So I've been driving it for the last few days

and everything people say, like it's just so dialed in.

Like when you drive that car in like a corner,

like let's say one of those like helix

is to merge onto a freeway.

You know, you're at 70 miles an hour

or whatever it is like,

because that's what the speed limit is, right?

And then you don't need to slow down

and get on the exit.

And you have a hundred percent confidence, right?

It has Michelin Pilot Sport.

So I'm not worried about the tires.

I was just worried about the suspension

because it's a 24 year old car.

All the confidence in the world going into that turn.

And I feel like it's so dialed in

and so like planted that like,

and in the shift, they're so smooth.

I never once, you don't even have to rev match.

Like it's just.

It's just, it's just like it, it just happens.

You don't think about it.

It's insane.

Like there's some times where I'm like in fourth gear

on the freeway and it's not even loud.

I don't even hear it.

I'm like, oh damn, I need to shift into fifth.

Like what am I doing?

And like, like, which happened a few times

in the GR Corolla in the car week.

And you can hear it like, oh damn, like I need to shift.

This is like it's so quiet.

You don't even realize like when you're

when you're at high RPMs and it revs to 7,000.

And I just, I love it already.

And I get it now, you know?

And I think that the 996 and we'll get into like the 997

and other different 911s that came after it.

I just feel like there's no reason for that car

to be as cheap as it is.

When you look at the other values, right?

And at the end of the day, the reason why I bought it

was because of how affordable it was, right?

Which I'm glad it's still cheap.

I mean, think about it this way.

E36M3s are almost at the same price point as those now.

A really nice, like the same mileage as your car

and E36M3 might be 20, 25 grand at this point.

So think about driving those two cars back to back

and nothing turns in like a 911.

I think that that's what makes the difference.

For me, I went from an E90 to a 997

and the turn in response was the thing

that really shocked me because there's no weight up front.

So it doesn't plow.

You get on the brakes, you shift the weight,

and then you can turn in.

You have, like you said, full confidence.

And then once you can get back on the power,

you feel that weight shift back over the rear axle,

you can hammer it.

And it's not a turbo, like you and I don't have turbos.

We have NA's, so a nice linear power band.

We're not gonna get all out of shape,

but it really is a car that you can,

it's a fast car, fast kind of car.

Like you can drive it at 10-10s

and know that you're, you know,

you have full confidence in what it's doing.

Yeah, and you're not like worried like holy shit,

I'm gonna be over the speed limit instantly.

Cause it does take a little bit.

Like the power band, I feel like is later in the RPM range,

like closer to 4,000 and beyond.

Cause like getting, like I was in third gear,

like I came out and I was like,

I don't need to drop in a second.

Like I'm good and I'm at 2,000

and it's kind of going up to 3,000.

And I was like, my foot's not all the way down,

but it's down, like it's taking a while.

So I was like, maybe the power is just not there

on these cars as I suspected it.

And as soon as I got to like 4,000

and like, you know, I was like, let me rev it

to like at least six and third.

And I was just like, oh shit, okay, there's the power.

Yeah, and you have the 3.4, right?

So it's a little bit revvier, it makes more power up top.

I have the 3.8, so you definitely get that low end punch,

but I think yours revs to like 7,000 or over 7,000.

So there's, you know, pros and cons

to every single one of these,

but I like having that low end torque,

but also like the character of the Revi car is super fun too.

Yeah.

So you have a 3.8 and the 997,

the 996.2 has got a 3.6, right?

So they kind of went up like 0.2 in displacement,

you know, as the years went on, it sounds like,

but yeah, research tells me, you know, the 3.4,

higher revving, but I mean, regardless,

you don't need, like it's 300 some horsepower.

So you mentioned like the S52 E36, right?

That engine I've had in my Z3M Roadster,

and that engine I remember having

somewhat good amount of low end torque,

because it's, you know, it's naturally aspirated.

It didn't need the turbos, you know,

but at the end of the day,

that car only had like 240 horsepower, right?

Now the weight, I don't know, I can't speak.

I know like 2900 is about what the 996 starts at,

and it gets a little heavier with the 997,

like you're over 3,000, I know that.

But depending on if it's an auto,

manuals are the lightest, coupes are the lightest, right?

Obviously the four, which mine is a four,

it's all wheel drive, so it's a little heavier.

But for the most part, we're talking like 100 pounds.

We're not talking, you know, obviously,

like I always think like,

what if you're just like a 200 pound guy,

like an, or you're a 120 pound guy?

Like, is that gonna make a big difference?

So anyway, the driving experience has blown

like my expectations out of the water.

That's all I can say.

Like I went in there thinking,

I know it's gonna drive great,

but now it's like, I don't think I'm ever gonna want

to sell it type of driving experience.

Wow, okay.

You know what I mean?

But at the end of the day, again,

I keep saying end of the day,

and it's still not the end of the day.

I keep talking.

We're just starting the day.

Yeah, we're just starting the day, exactly.

I'm gonna keep it for at least six months

because I wanna be able to truly feel how the car drives.

Like I wanna enjoy it, and it's a cab relay,

so no need to sell that thing anytime soon.

The only thing though that I noticed,

because when you tell someone, oh, it's a cab relay,

they're like, ah, it's a cab relay.

Yeah, there's not much you can do to avoid that.

And then of course, the top doesn't go down easily.

I need to put new hydraulic fluid.

It's not only the fact that it's heavier,

it doesn't look as cool.

It's also the problems that come with it too.

Have you driven it and noticed any flex?

Like for me, when I had my E36 cab,

I could put my hand kind of on the door

and grab the top of the windshield,

and when I would turn,

I could feel the whole cow kind of moving and flexing.

So I don't know if a 911,

because the engines in the rear has as much cow flex,

that would be an interesting thing to look at.

The other thing that I would say is,

I mentioned this like probably a year ago on this podcast,

but the hardtop on the 996 looks the best of all.

I've seen hardtops on 997s, that kind of thing,

but the hardtop is a cheap upgrade

to make that car kind of give that same silhouette,

because that's really what the 911 has is that silhouette,

which I think it's something worth exploring for sure.

But you kind of have the best of both worlds

with the convertible,

because you can roll around here with the top down,

which is really nice.

You get to hear the engine a lot better,

which we can talk about exhausts off podcast later.

You might want to look into a few different options.

And then if you really want to take it for a road trip,

you can, because it's comfortable.

Like you said, it's quiet.

You just put the top up,

and then when you get to Monterey,

then you put the top back down.

Like I think it's nice.

I have the sunroof in mind,

and I find myself opening the sunroof all the time.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, I mean, I might consider the top

just because of the look, right?

It'll change the look of the car.

I get it.

Like my Quadrifoglio Alfa Romeo Spider

has a hardtop, changes the look completely,

plus you never see him with the hardtop.

So when people do see him,

it's like, wow, that looks different.

That's even more true with the 996.

I mean, other than Jay's pink 996,

I don't see hardtops very often, right?

Yeah.

So I'll look into it.

I don't care about the weighted ads, right?

I'm not tracking it or anything.

But I do want to talk about the 996 values real quick.

So we all know they're the cheapest 911 you can buy,

right? Clearly.

I mean, I talked to Nick about it on a few podcasts

ago, how the 996 got skipped over,

kind of like how the E36 M3 did, right?

And then now E36 M3s are starting to go up in value, right?

Those started like 95, right?

A little earlier before the 996 started,

which was, I believe, 98 or end of 97.

So my theory is that the E36 got jumped over

not because of headlights or something stupid like that,

like cosmetic things.

It got skipped over because it was just underpowered, right?

People thought the E30 M3 was the holy grail

because it started it all, right?

Kind of like the earlier Porsche 911s.

And then the S54 E46 M3s started to go up in value.

Once people that, remember them in high school,

got in their 30s, started making money.

And now you see like Laguna Seca blue E46 M3s,

Phoenix Yellow, Esterel blue ones,

like through the roof values, right?

And they only made those in coupes, right?

Obviously the SMG transmission ones didn't don't do well,

but the manual ones are insane.

Like we're talking like the cheapest ones are like 50, right?

I've seen like Laguna Seca blue ones reach 100,000.

Remember we saw, no, you weren't with me.

We saw one at car week.

It was a Laguna Seca blue.

What's the competition callback then?

Was it CS, CSL?

It should be just CS, I think.

Yeah, it was like pretty much the one with the,

you could tell by the wheels, had a little lip.

Anyway, like the holy grail of E46 M3s.

So anyway, I don't wanna get on a soapbox about it,

but the E36 was the one that got skipped over.

And now you're seeing values of those go up

because people are like, well,

I can't get into a M3 for less than 50,

but I can with the E36 at like, what was it?

I remember like five years ago,

they were like 15,000 for coupes.

And now they're, like you said, they're worth over 2025.

Yeah, so I think the thing that hurts the E36,

like you said, they're underpowered,

especially compared to the European models.

The interior of that generation of all cars was shit.

And you can say that to a certain extent about the 996.

997 has kind of that cheap feeling interior

in certain ways too, but there are things that you can do.

You can leather wrap a lot of the stuff in there.

Yours has carbon fiber, so it might be interesting

to explore.

But like the knobs for volume and the tune

are all sticky, like sticky dash material.

And it's like that, like it's like,

damn, this is gross to the touch.

So I imagine the E36 is, you know,

all those buttons and things fall apart, right?

And like Dan said, that's like a consistent issue

just with any German cars from that time period.

I mean, Mercedes had the sticky buttons

in their Dymler Chrysler cars and Audi, same thing.

If you see any B5, B6, Audi,

most of them, all the climate buttons are worn off

and have turned white or they're getting sticky and gross.

They have soft touch, that early soft touch

kind of material that hasn't aged too well.

The dead pixels on all the Audis and BMWs as well,

like an E39 M5 has a bunch of dead pixels on it, yeah.

Yeah, so I feel like it's only a matter of time

that the 996, people start to say,

okay, I can get into a 911 for around 20 to 25K, right?

With not too crazy high miles.

IMS bearings, whatever, the bore score, whatever,

like as long as those things are done,

but it's nothing, there's nothing like,

mechanically wrong with those cars, right?

They're not super underpowered, what was it?

I think the E36 had 240 horsepower, right?

But the European one had 300 or something like that,

so that's why we were all, everyone was like,

oh, S52 is not a great engine, it's a great engine.

They're reliable, they're not nearly as unreliable

as the E46 with the throttle bodies and all that.

So I think in time, people will start to appreciate

the 996 simply because of the fact

that it's a good entry level 911

and you're not gonna get one for even 30 grand more.

And it's a unique experience.

You're not gonna find another rear engine car

in that price point outside of it,

because I went down this rabbit hole,

like an MR2 or what are you gonna try to find?

Like the cheapest Lotus available,

you're just not really gonna find a good rear engine car

for 20 to 25 grand that's gonna have

that same kind of build quality and that experience.

I will say Porsche parts are on a different level

compared to BMW and Audi parts,

but they're all old cars at this point,

they're all gonna nickel and dime you,

there's gonna be window regulators,

there's gonna be intermittent air conditioning,

you're gonna have little things here and there

that are always gonna crop up

because it's a 20, 25 year old car at this point.

But I don't think it's going to,

like if you're coming from an E36,

you're not gonna notice the increased maintenance.

Also too, like I think that 996s

are a car that's worth spending money on,

so if you can afford to make the initial purchase,

even if it costs you a little bit of money every year,

if you're buying the car to drive,

spend $4,000 and do the IMS bearing,

don't be afraid to, if it's a car you love

and you plan on keeping,

you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of it

for probably less than a lot of people

spend on their car payments every year.

And that's money in, money out.

When you go to sell it,

you show documentation of that.

I have, I was telling you,

I have my IMS bearing in a little bag,

like a little aborted fetus for the next person to say,

look, it was, it was done, you know.

I have the proof right here.

Yeah, I mean, that's a good point.

Like you're gonna get your money back

with those particular maintenance items, right?

It's kind of like a time and belt on a V8

or a V6, you know, car with an interference engine,

you know, like my 300ZX,

everyone when I sold it wanted to know

if the time belt was done on the twin turbo.

My Montero, same thing.

They're all interference engines.

It's the same concept, right?

So you need to get that done.

And then the other thing I wanted to talk about was looks

because the 996, at least the Dot 1

had the earlier headlights that were,

that were shared with the Boxster.

So I, here's like a take that I have.

I feel like it's not necessarily the look

of the runny egg headlight.

I think it's the fact that they share the same look

on the front end as the Boxster, right?

So no one's going to want to pay a premium for a car

that looks very similar to the entry level version

of that car, right?

You look back at like C4 Corvettes.

The ZR1 looked identical to the regular C4 Corvette

with the exception of like, they were a little bit,

the rear fenders were a little bit like wider.

I think the brake light was in a different position

and in the exhaust.

Other than that, same looking car

but was double the price

and had a lot more horsepower.

Then they made one that had 300 horsepower

and the C4 ZR1 had 350.

It was like very close.

I think the LT1 came out

and it was like really close in horsepower

and it was still half the price.

Yeah, as it evolved, it proved to be similar power

and a lot more reliable and simple than a ZR1.

So you never see ZR1 C4s.

So not saying you don't see 996s

but people aren't going to want to like,

oh, I could just get a Boxster for 10 grand, right?

That looks almost the same.

It's mid-engine, not rear engine,

but you know, I'll still get a Porsche, you know,

that's my thought process

because I can't imagine the runny egg

like the way it looks

because it's actually a really good looking car.

Like from the front, okay.

Let's just say from the headlight back,

it's a great looking car.

I think it actually, it's the lightest of the air cooled,

I'm sorry, the water cooled

and it has the same silhouette.

So I don't see the problem here

other than those headlights being, yeah, runny egg

and they kind of bleed into the front bumper

with the amber turn signals and all that.

But even the 996.2s, which they did fix,

I think they ended up getting the headlight like the turbos.

They still, people aren't buying those either, right?

Yeah, I think 996 turbos are going.

I think that they're...

Yeah, I mean not buying, the values aren't going up

on those, they sold a lot obviously

but the values aren't going up on the 996.2s either.

Right, right.

You know what's funny is by that same logic though

you can look at like this, we have a model of one,

the Porsche GT1 race car has those runny egg headlights on it.

So you get, if somebody is like,

oh, well it's got the boxer headlights,

you go, no, it's got the GT1 headlights actually.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, Nick said bulbous looking, right?

It was, and I think it's, yeah,

maybe in the front end, like the way the lights are,

like we were comparing it to like the Volkswagen Beetle

in the early 2000s.

Like maybe that was the design language back then.

Another thing too, exactly.

It was the design language back then,

like if you think about it, like in the late 90s

everything was like bubble car, like the Tauruses,

just all of the normie cars kind of followed that language

and that was like perceived as modern at the time.

So I can't really fault Porsche for that too much.

Yeah, even the interiors too.

So you can get creative with that car.

We see what Nick's doing.

Nick's got a full wrap.

He's going like yellow tints on the lenses,

which I think is gonna make that car look really cool.

Like those headlights are now gonna be

kind of like a talking piece.

So you can do things, I'm not saying

do the 997 mod where you like paint over them

so they look like a 997,

but you can do little things to make them

stand out a little bit.

Well, he was saying to get the color matched covers.

I'm a fan of those.

They're controversial, but I don't think it's a bad way.

It just breaks it up a little and makes it look different.

The prime example is that pink convertible 996.

I think between the hard top

and the color matched headlight covers,

it's just a really sharp look.

Yeah.

Is that Jeff's or Jay's car?

I think it's Jeff Ubaldi's car.

That's how you say it.

Yeah, with the Houndstooth interior.

Yeah, the pad one guys.

So last thing on the 996,

obviously values, I say they're not going up yet.

I mean, I've seen values of like one just sold

on bring a trailer with 41,000 miles,

$39,000 for what, you know,

it was a cabriolet six speed like mine.

Yeah, a yellow one though.

And then you're not far off.

I mean, at the end of the day,

like the color, like here's my take.

I know Porsche people love the paint to sample

and all that stuff.

So I have a feeling like color,

anything that makes it stand out

because you have all these cars

that they've made so many of them,

it's hard to just stand out.

So like a paint to sample color is so important.

It's so much more valuable because wow,

not only do I have a cool Porsche,

but now mine stands out.

Yeah, right.

Options are everything with those.

Yeah, so yours has got the blue leather interior,

which is super cool.

Blue top, it's like somebody spec,

we said this on Saturday,

I was like somebody like spec this car out

to be this way,

because it's a very unique spec the way that it is

and to have the manual on there

because the automatics,

that's when they really started

to make more automatic 911s.

So.

Yeah, which is what I want to segue into next.

So your 997 obviously is 05, right?

So right after the 996,

which makes sense, right?

It's 997, it's like the next number, right?

But then after the 997, they go 991,

so it gets confusing,

but let's talk about the 997 and some differences.

So first just tell me how you experience,

I know you don't have it right now,

but tell us how your experience has been

since the last time you were on,

which is right when you bought it.

Yeah.

And tell us about some differences about it

compared to the 996.

Yeah, so I drove it all weekend.

I drove it up to RSF,

I drove it down to Mexico yesterday.

That was a little sketchy,

but so far that car's been amazing.

So it's the launch edition.

So we talk about options.

This thing, what's cool about it

is it's got every single option in 05 when they launched.

So carbon ceramic brakes, full leather wrapped dash,

sport seats, GT3 shifter, gosh, what else?

Sport chrono package.

It's got the adjustable suspension.

So it's got Bilstein B16s on it.

So the car in terms of how I would wanna spec it,

short of changing the wheels,

it's got the lobster claws, which are controversial,

but I think they're becoming kind of more

of a BBS classic wheel.

There was a, segue, there was a RWB build

that just happened.

I think it was here or in Southern California somewhere

that was a 997 and they did a three-piece

lobster claw wheel, which looks pretty cool.

Yeah, so they cut it, they barreled it

and it's got like chrome lips, which is interesting.

But yeah, I think my car,

even though it's black on black, it's very basic.

I think with those options, the launch edition,

I'm super happy with the way that it drives.

I think maybe like 3,200 pounds

and having those carbon brakes is kind of a flex,

but it also takes about 15 pounds off of unsprung weight,

which is great.

Like you do lightweight wheels with those brakes

and the car, it's night and day difference.

I've driven a bunch of 997s, 991s,

and I think it's really, it's in the right spot.

Okay.

What do you mean by the right spot?

In terms of generations, I think it still looks the best.

That's just me, because it's got the right size.

I'm seeing a lot of 991s

and I just think they got a lot bigger at this point.

And the turbo charging is something that pulls away

from the character of that car, the NA.

So I think the 991s debuted, 991.1s are NA, 3.6.

And then in 2015, they went with a three liter twin turbo.

And I think that kind of like took a lot of the character

out of those cars.

And it's like, oh, well it's not a turbo, but it's a turbo.

So I think that 997s, Dot 1s, and Dot 2s

are always gonna have that little special place,

31, 3,200 pounds.

And then you've got all the crazy GT3 stuff now

that they're just so wide and kind of,

you can't really place them on the road as well.

They're really meant for the track.

Right.

So you bring up the fact that like they make,

okay, cause I love talking about current cars

compared to cars back when they were meant to be,

when they were more analog, right?

I mean, we obviously analog and great, right?

We love analog vehicles.

So obviously the 2000s, most cars were still analog

not every car had ABS, not every car had,

I mean, the main economy cars,

a lot of sports cars still had analog feelings to them

cause mainly they were still manuals, right?

So the 997 came at a time in 05 right now

where we're starting to transition away

from manuals maybe, right?

Cause you mentioned the Dot 2s.

Well, you said 991 had the turbos.

Yeah, the Dot 2s, yep.

Yeah, so in the regular base car, right?

Not the turbo.

So you're saying a base 911, that's not a turbo, right?

Cause obviously the turbo was always like the holy grail

had turbos, right?

And then a lot of them also had automatics

cause PDK came out, right?

And they were faster than the manuals, right?

So now you have a dual clutch

which PDK is essentially Porsche's dual clutch transmission

that will get the car faster 0 to 60

rather than before when the car is more analog

a manual was the faster option, right?

Cause you had a six speed compared to a five speed

tiptronic, let's say.

So I wanna talk about the 997 though.

So I feel like they started to go manuals around that time.

Like I know you mentioned my 996, I meant automatics.

Were more common, right?

We're selling more at that time

because they were eventually the faster option, right?

People want the faster option.

So let's talk about that

cause I feel like that's really important

is like Porsche went away for a minute

from the manual analog experience.

They got heavier, right?

They were, what do you call it?

Counting track times or?

Oh yeah, I mean they're comparing

Nürburgring track times.

And not to mention the PDK also in traffic

people are gonna want that as well.

And you gotta think about the people that are buying

that we're buying these new.

We're talking dentists, doctors,

people in their 50s, 60s

who maybe have a bad leg or knee or whatever

and they don't wanna be shifting all the time.

So the pendulum swung hard when PDK came out.

I think it was lauded by all the different journalists

and mags saying, oh, well you can have your cake

and eat it too with the PDK.

You get, it's the best shifting double clutch

on the market.

And this is the way everything's going.

There's no sacrifice.

You get all the feel, all the benefits of a 911

and you get to just grab the gears

and it shifts instantaneously, rev match, all that stuff.

So I think that the pendulum swung really far

and now we're seeing it swing back the other way.

In fact, you see the take rate on GT3s.

There's more manual take rates on GT3s

than PDKs at this point.

They came out with the Carrera T.

It's manual only.

This is like the only Porsche

since the air cooled ones

that you can only get as a manual.

I think it's kind of interesting

to see how far they've come the other way.

They're listening to the US market

because when you go to Germany,

for instance, all the E60 M5s were all DCT.

They never, or SMG, they never made Europe.

They went all in on it.

And the American market said,

no, we want to keep manuals here.

And I think, like you said,

the shifting experience in a 911

is they've got it figured out.

There's no reason why we need to do more

than what we have.

Unless you're chasing track times, like you're saying.

Yeah, that's a good point.

I think with Europe, they drive a lot of manuals.

It's the norm.

So an automatic to them is a flex.

I mean, since the early days.

Yeah, they're used to maybe daily driving

like a Renault Twingo manual or whatever.

So that when they want a track car,

they just want a fast track car.

They're not necessarily concerned

about rowing gears on the track.

They're like, oh, my diesel Polo has a five speed.

What am I doing?

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

And to us, if it's a manual, it's super cool,

even though it's an Econobox.

So I think the mentality is different.

But like you said, chasing track times

is what's most important to these engineers, right?

So the pendulum swung to automatics,

specifically PDK automatic side are great

that everyone loves, right?

They're probably the best dual clutch transmission

on the market.

But then they also have the best manual transmission

on the market.

And if you're stopped selling those,

I mean, why make cars with them

if no one's buying them anymore?

So I get it from like,

because Porsche was always like a boutique brand.

A lot of enthusiasts say the 996 helped them reinvent the brand.

It's like the time when in the late 90s

where Porsche became an actual brand,

not just like a niche boutique brand,

like maybe like a Lotus.

Yeah, they were hanging on for dear life.

They were taking engineering projects just to stay afloat.

So they almost lost it a few times in the 80s and 90s.

And then the Cayenne was the thing

that kind of saved them with the 996.

They just happened to kind of be around at the same time

and that really swung their brand

all the way up to what they're doing now.

Yeah, yeah.

So 997, you mentioned that it's kind of like that sweet spot

where it's still analog, it's not that heavy yet.

It had more power, right?

It was like 320 horsepower, even in the base, right?

Like how much horsepower is yours?

I think it's 360, 365.

Okay, so even yours is a,

which trim is it?

It's an S.

It's an S, okay.

So the S had more horsepower.

Okay, cause I think it said around 320 something

in a base 997 when I was looking it up.

Either way, it had more horsepower than the predecessor.

It wasn't that much heavier.

So it's when the car started getting heavier

and started to get just more track focused, right?

Less analog.

I think there's two kind of avenues that they went, right?

You've got the PDK automatic grand touring car,

which is like a 991.2 that people are buying,

like I said, dentists or whoever, you know,

and they just want to get around town.

They're not really interested in driving that car hard

or in the canyons, that kind of thing.

And then the GT brand really started to take off.

So the rarest cars to me are like the base base,

Carreras, like a 2024 Carrera with a manual

is like intriguing to me.

I see that and I go, somebody had to look for this

and buy this, right?

Because most of them like a lot of cabs,

a lot of PDK cars, you know?

Cause it's like either you're just driving this car

in traffic day to day, cause that's what they're for.

Or you're buying this as like your weekend track toy.

You're going to go to all the POC or PCA events

and you're going to, you know, drive this thing hard.

So I think those are the two kind of avenues

that the 911 buyer has gone into at this point.

But to your point, I think 996 is in a great spot

because you can't find anything comparable, really,

like across the entire automotive spectrum.

I mean, what do you got?

You got anything?

I'm trying to rack in my brain,

trying to think of something like NSX is gone.

Yeah.

I'm thinking like, yeah, we already know 996 is a great,

like it's a sweet spot generation car, right?

I say 95 to 05 sweet spot, meaning it's still analog.

They're relatively reliable.

They were made at a time when cars weren't built

with planned ops lessons.

Like they were meant to last a long time.

But besides that, the 997 is not far off.

Even though it came out in 05,

like your car is still valuable.

Like it's still not cheap, right?

Like a 996 is.

So I wanted to get your take on,

why do you think the 997s are still more expensive?

Is it simply the headlights are now back to being round?

Or is it more than that?

I think because fundamentally, like chassis wise,

that kind of thing, they're not that different.

I do think that it really comes down to interior

and the headlights and some of the general styling.

It's the same thing.

I think there's a delta between 997.1 and 997.2

for that reason too.

All they really did was update the bumpers and the headlights

and make a couple interior tweaks.

But the price gap between .1s and .2s

are kind of close to what a late 996.2 would be to a 997.

I think that it's very incremental as you go up.

And that's a 911 kind of in general.

It's all about the evolution, the lineage of it.

It's like making it progressively better.

But then we got to a point with these cars,

like we mentioned with turbocharging

when they get bigger.

Electric power steering being a really big part of it too.

That it's just starting to lose that spirit,

that character that we're looking for,

which is why people are looking at previous generations.

And I hear a lot that the 991.1 might be a really good

sweet spot because it's still NA 3.8 close to 400 horsepower.

I think they're a little big,

but the interior is a major step up

between our generations of cars and that.

You got air conditioned seats.

It's just a really nice kind of comfortable place to be.

Lots of options.

That's when Porsche really started going crazy

with the options too.

And that's when PTS I think started to come out.

So you can really go down the rabbit hole with 991s

that you maybe have fewer options for a 996 or 997.

Yeah, Doug DeMiro on the last podcast said

that the 991 is the new 993.

So the 993 is the last air-cooled Porsche

which people are going crazy over.

Once, right around COVID time, air-cooled Porsches popped,

specifically 993s went through the roof.

He's saying the 991 is that right now.

Like it's gonna, value is already starting to go up

and people are gonna start to appreciate the 991 more

because the car that came after it, right,

did not do it for the Porsche enthusiasts

the way they expect it to.

Like it didn't get better.

And I always say that.

Usually when the car didn't get better, right,

like the E46 M3, I know you had the E90,

but it was a V8, it wasn't a straight six, right?

So yeah, maybe it was more powerful, right?

Cause that's what everyone's always going for is more power,

but it didn't get better, right?

And he's saying, you know, his argument was the 991

was the last best Porsche.

And he thinks it's gonna still continue to get worse

and bigger and heavier and more.

Hybrid.

Yeah, that too.

I think that all of those things are detracting

and if you can get a 991,

I think the Valley is like 60 to 65,000.

If you can get one at that price,

I think that's where it's gonna bottom out.

The 996, or sorry, the 997 I think is now bottomed out

at 35 and you're shopping the buyer

or you're shopping the seller a lot of the time too.

Cause that, you know, the thing about 996

is they're at the price point now

where they're neglected

and they've been neglected for a long time.

So if you can find one that's got low miles

that's had all the maintenance done a lot

like your example, then you can buy it with confidence.

But we see what the Sudmuffins got.

You know, I'm not hating on it,

but like there's a reason why

that was like the cheapest 996 I've ever seen sold

is because it's gonna need a lot of love

to get it back to where it is

because it's probably had, I mean,

I think he bought it from like a 25 year old kid

who was like, I can't afford to do anything with it,

right?

So Porsche parts, Porsche maintenance,

like you get to that point

where it's just too expensive for people to maintain.

So that's where there is a valley for all those.

I think that the 991 is still new enough

that it's not gonna give you a lot of problems.

It's still going to be a relatively reliable car

that you can stack 30, 40, 50,000 miles on

and not worry about.

Yeah.

What do you think Dylan?

What's your take on all this?

Man, you guys are asking the wrong person

cause when it comes to Porsches,

I grew up around all of the front engine stuff, 944s.

Sorry to cut you off.

Take out the functional expertise.

You're not a subject matter expert

because maybe that's not your thing,

but at the end of the day, you're a car enthusiast.

So what is your general take on 911s

and the different generations?

I think that 996s especially can be a tremendous value.

Like I was saying earlier,

it's a car that I would buy

and I would be okay with like sinking 10 grand

into it right away if I had the money.

Like just to get it sorted,

to have that peace of mind, to have some trust in it.

So for that reason, I say to anybody who's interested

buy that cheap 996.

Yeah.

You know, as long as you can just afford to service it,

then you know, it could end up being a good car

like Dan said, you can put some hassle-free miles on.

Yeah.

And then also too personally,

the 996 turbo is my favorite turbo.

Right.

As far as looks, believe it or not,

I love the rear bumpers with the big old vents in them.

It's just a cool, it's distinct

when you see a 996 turbo from,

you can see it from a football field away.

You know, you're looking at a 996 turbo.

Yeah, I think the front bumper treatment on that car

makes those headlights work as well.

Cause there's something with the turbo headlights

that are different.

They're updated, they have projectors in them.

They, I think that that's,

that's the treatment that makes that car really work.

Yeah. Yeah.

It makes it age a little bit better too

with like the projector lenses and everything else.

See, your opinion is important

because you're the next generation, right?

You're the generation before us

that is going to essentially dictate the future market, right?

So if you think a 996 is worth putting money into

and getting into tremendous value,

then other people are going to think the same, right?

And like you just graduated from a BMW M3 to a 911,

but I graduated from an Alfa Romeo to a 911.

But like think about like the kids

that are still in their 20s though.

Like they're driving BMWs right now,

maybe some Mercedes,

but they're eventually going to want to graduate to a 911.

And that's going to be the one

that they're going to gravitate to

simply because they can't afford a $35,997,

but a $25,996, they can afford.

So how do values go up?

Simply because of, you know, market pros.

What's the word I'm thinking about?

I just blacked out on the economics supply and demand.

Jesus.

So obviously there's a lot of supply.

The demand for that supply goes up

because simply they're affordable.

And I think that's going to help the 996 market

because it's going to be a great, like he said,

a car that people can buy at a somewhat affordable price.

And you know, with the Ferd maintenance,

they can still afford it under 30K

and you have a sorted 996 under 100,000 miles.

I mean,

I can't find another experience for that price.

I mean, you're looking at MR2s,

all the Japanese stuff went crazy.

And then anything that's American,

like C5 Corvette would be the direct comparison.

And Corvette had the same kind of thing

where it was like, well, if you're going to get a C5,

why don't you just get a C6?

If you're going to get a C6,

why don't you just get a C7, right?

And now C8, I see the way that they've changed the tunnel

without getting totally off topic,

but I think they're going to make a manual C8

kind of like as the last year or two years

because they've changed that whole configuration.

You used to have like that fighter style line

of buttons on it.

It's like a flat piece that looks like you easy

to put a shifter there.

Which I hate that fire line of buttons.

Like I had a C8 for about a good two weeks

and I couldn't find where the frost button was.

Like it's so annoying,

I shouldn't have to take my eyes off the road

and look at this row of buttons

to see where the frost is.

And I was just like, what's going on?

At least they're actual buttons rather than a tablet.

But I'm glad they fixed it.

They put the physical buttons back

on where they should be, like on the front there.

So before we wrap up, I want to kind of correlate the two.

I mentioned E36M3s, very similar to 996s.

How many kids do you see driving E36M3s today?

So many.

Even not M3s, right?

They're kids, right?

You said so many?

They've gone crazy, yeah.

So my point is they were like, oh shit,

like I can afford an M3 at 15,000?

Like I can afford that.

Like I'd rather get that than a GR86 Toyota

that's brand new for 30.

You know, like I'll buy the M3 and be cool

and my friends will geek out over it.

And then they're eventually going to graduate to a 911.

They're not going to go straight to a 997 or 991.

They're going to go to what's the next best thing,

which is a 996, which is about 10 grand more than that.

Yeah, I'm just surprised that we're not seeing that

with Caymans.

I think Caymans are still holding their value pretty well.

Like a 996 and a Cayman are kind of the same price

at this point.

And then boxers are always going to be cheap,

kind of like a 944, just for whatever reason,

I think that the dynamics are there,

but maybe it's fit and finish, it's quality,

it's perceived quality or it's a status thing.

But yeah.

You're talking Caymans from the early 2000s, right?

Yeah, the same, this first generation boxers and Caymans,

like the boxers are-

Like I said, they look the same.

Yeah, honestly, I think for a lot of people,

like younger people, it's a huge status thing.

Like a lot of the people who I've talked to

who are like against a Cayman or a Boxster,

like can't really tell you why,

except for that it's a Cayman or a Boxster and not a 911.

And I think those same people could get behind the wheel

of a Cayman or a Boxster and fall in love just as easily.

Yeah, I don't see why not.

So I think that part of this,

I talked about this last time I was on the podcast too,

is I don't know if a 911 is a one car solution.

I mean, a lot of these kids,

maybe they only have one parking spot

or they need to have back seats for whatever reason

or they think that they need to have back seats,

which a 911 has back seats, but maybe rear doors, right?

So I still think that kids are aspiring to own E90M3s.

They're still looking at some of the newer four door things,

335s, but two series,

I think is still something that's on their radar.

They don't realize that they can get into a Porsche

for the same price.

So I'm wondering if that's going to ever shift.

Yeah, I think E90M3s are already over 30 grand, right?

Let's just say over 25 grand.

And I think most kids out of college

are not looking at $30,000 used cars.

If they're gonna get a $30,000 car to get a new,

like I said, a GR Corolla, I'm not, I'm sorry, a GR 86

or like a WRX, they're around 30,000.

I mean, maybe a year too old, but they're relatively new.

They can go that route, right?

But if they're gonna go used and cool

enthusiast spec, they're gonna look at something

like around 20,000 and have that extra five for maintenance.

So I think like it's, I don't know if the E90's

in that ballpark, right?

Or even the 997.

So that's why I'm leaning towards the 996

as being the next car to kind of ride the coattails

with the new generation of the 997

and obviously the 991 that is, I don't like you said,

it bottoms out at what, 65, 70, I think?

Bottom bottom, like I don't even,

looked at the market on those

cause I know they're out of my price range,

but we'll see, right?

I think your point as a, you know,

the next young generation, that's the car.

I mean, they don't see the runny egg headlight.

To them, it's still cool.

They don't remember it when it was new.

They just see it now vintage.

And to them, wow, I could afford a Porsche

for under 20 grand, like I'm gonna be all about it,

a Porsche 911.

And also another thing I'd like to mention is

I think the people that know the issues

that the 996s have,

won't necessarily be afraid of a higher miles one.

I've shared in the past on the podcast

how higher mileage cars don't really scare me

as long as like the service is there.

And since we know, since the problems

with 996s are known,

I would gladly buy a higher mileage one.

If I can get it on the cheap,

I can do the IMS right away

or maybe it's already been done.

The car runs good, passes smogged

and that's, you know, green light.

Yeah, if it's higher mileage,

likely it's been done already.

You know, you've got four or five owners

who are all asking the same question

as it's passing through.

So yeah, a lot of that stuff,

mileage doesn't scare me either.

I think I've got 80K on mine

and I'm fine with putting just loading the miles up

because that's what those cars before.

That's the one special thing about Porsche brand

is that it's a European luxury car

that doesn't have the depreciation you find

with BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar,

any other Land Rover, any other European car,

Alfa Romeo, even Lotus, Maserati.

The depreciation on those cars

over 100,000 miles is enormous, right?

Porsche are the only brand

out of all those European cars I just mentioned

that don't have the same depreciation.

Yeah, and I would go as far to say

that like Porsche's are generally reliable

for the most part.

And I think that's the main reason, right?

We talked about the Lexus, ISF, GSF,

those are getting, they're still holding their value.

You can't find one under 35 grand, 30 grand.

And they all have, they're getting six-digit odometers.

Right.

And it's just you have to deal with it.

At this point, they're over 100,000 miles

because there's ISFs that were from 2008, right?

I think they were late 2000s, early 2010s

that have over 100,000 miles, they're 15 years old.

But yet you're seeing them for like 30 grand still.

It's crazy.

Yeah, I think that the air-cooled 911s

are the ones that really blaze that trail.

Like I remember seeing, even when I was a kid,

300,000 mile air-cooled 911s

and thinking, wow, this is something that was like,

just built, it'll be cockroaches

and old 911s around when the apocalypse happens.

So, yeah.

And to the point of that, the reliability,

I feel like the younger generation

won't be scared to get in them, like he said,

which might dilute the pretentiousness

that kind of is associated with the Porsche brand, right?

Because you said it was doctors, lawyers,

all these people that have money,

that are wealthy buying these cars

at the time when Porsche eventually stopped

being a boutique brand and started

to be an actual real car brand.

And then now, fast forward 20 years later,

we have a new generation of people buying them

that are younger, that are gonna,

they're not pretentious, they're wearing slides

in their 911, you know?

And the young kids, they all see a GT3 go by

and they go, I want that.

But they don't have a hundred or $150,000,

so what's the next thing

that you gotta go down the lineage?

Exactly, yeah, I mean, that's the halo car.

I mean, obviously everyone can aspire to own that,

but the cool thing is, is you can get a base 911

and still get a piece of that experience, right?

It's still rear engine.

It's still gonna have an amazing six speed.

I mean, that's the best part.

I've never driven a better manual in my life, so.

Well, appreciate you guys being on the podcast.

I feel like, again, Porsche, that brand,

we've kind of neglected for a minute on this podcast.

I feel like we talk more about Alfa Romeo

than we do brands that people care more about.

So Dylan, always a mainstay.

Thanks for having me.

Yep, and then until next time,

Dan, we look forward to seeing the 911

come back from Mexico in one piece.

Yeah, I'll put an air tag in there, just in case.

All right, guys, until next week

on the Analog and Grip podcast.

Yeah, this is.

Call 911: I Bought A 996 Runny Egg Porsche Cabriolet

About this episode

Porsche 911

BMW M6

Mazda Rx8

Porsche Cayman

911 Carrera

Toyota GR Corolla

BMW E36M3S

BMW E90

BMW Z3M

Alfa Romeo Spider

BMW M5

BMW E39

Toyota MR2

Nissan 300Zx

Porsche Boxster

Chevrolet Corvette

Volkswagen Beetle

Porsche Carrera T

Renault Twingo

Porsche Cayenne

Acura NSX

Porsche 944

Toyota Gr86

BMW 335

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