O'Reilly Auto Parts is a store that sells car parts and can help with simple services. Here, they’re talking about checking your battery and even charging or installing a new one.
Your car battery is what gives the car the electrical power it needs to start. If it’s going bad, the car might not start, so testing and charging can help figure out what’s wrong.
They’re talking about an enthusiast car event they went to. It’s mostly background for the conversation, not a deep dive into a specific vehicle.
Concept
Luftgekult
Luftgekult is a car-enthusiast event name connected to air-cooled Porsche culture. The hosts say it was originally set up by Pat Long and is growing to more places.
An air-cooled Porsche cools its engine using air flowing over it, not liquid coolant. People who love these cars often say they feel and sound different because of that older cooling approach.
The Speedster is a rare, open-top version of the Porsche 911. It’s usually a limited edition, and the host is saying this new GT3 S/C is taking the place of that kind of special Speedster release.
Car
Porsche Speedster
The Speedster is a Porsche convertible/roadster style. The hosts say people like it because it looks more distinctive than the other GT3 convertible option.
Term
batched GT3
“Batched” here means producing the GT3 in a grouped, limited production run rather than as a continuously built model. The host is emphasizing that this is the first time Porsche has made a convertible GT3 in that kind of limited batch.
This is a Porsche 911 GT3 variant called “S/C.” The “S/C” name is part of Porsche’s way of connecting the car to older 911 models, and the hosts are mainly talking about how the look/equipment choices affect the price.
“911 SC” is an older Porsche 911 model name from decades ago. The hosts are saying the newer “S/C” branding is intentionally nodding to that older 911.
The Lucid Air is an electric car, meaning it runs on electricity instead of gas. It’s a sedan, so it’s built for everyday driving with a more premium feel. The podcast mentions it because of its price and how people might respond to it.
GTS is Porsche’s model designation for a trim/performance tier that typically sits between the base “S” and the more track-focused “GT3” in the lineup. Here, the hosts compare the GT3 S/C’s equipment/kit level to what you’d expect from a GTS, arguing it affects perceived value.
In this context, “kit” means bundled options and equipment—styling parts, interior/exterior upgrades, and other factory add-ons—rather than a single mechanical component. The hosts argue the GT3 S/C includes more of this “kit” than a standard GT3 coupe, which is part of the value discussion.
“Out-the-door price” means the final total you pay at purchase time, after taxes and fees. The point here is that once you add options, the final price jumps a lot.
“Track use” means taking the car to a race course and driving it hard repeatedly. It’s tougher on the car than normal street driving, so the hosts are saying most people won’t do that all the time.
Resale value is how much the car is likely to be worth when you sell it later. The hosts are saying Porsche looks at how special editions hold their value.
A dealer markup is when the dealer charges extra money on top of the normal price. The hosts are saying this can happen a lot when a car is hard to get, like some special Porsche models.
Ordering means you request the car you want and wait for it to be built or allocated to you. The hosts are saying this can help avoid extra dealer charges that happen when cars are scarce.
Limited edition means only a certain number of cars are built. Because there aren’t many, people may pay more—sometimes even through dealer add-on markups.
An appreciating asset is something that tends to increase in value over time. In car terms, certain models can become more valuable due to scarcity, demand, and condition, rather than depreciating like most vehicles.
Term
insurance goes up
They’re noting that insuring a more expensive car usually costs more. Repairs and replacement parts are often pricier, so insurance can increase.
Concept
out-of-pocket ownership costs
These are the actual bills you have to pay to own the car, like insurance and registration. The host’s point is that in some places those costs can be so high that owning a pricey car becomes stressful.
Residual value is what a car is worth in the future. The host is saying this Porsche can hold its value so well that you might sell it for far more than you paid.
The Miata is a small two-seat convertible made by Mazda. It’s designed to be easy to drive and fun on twisty roads. People bring it up because it’s a popular entry-level sports car.
The Dodge Charger is a larger sedan made by Dodge. It’s often offered with powerful engines and is meant to feel sporty. The podcast mentions it because it’s a well-known model in Dodge’s lineup.
The Silverado EV is a pickup truck that runs on electricity instead of gas. It’s built to do truck jobs like towing, while still using an electric motor for power. The podcast mentions it because it’s trying to be both capable and fast.
A four-cylinder turbo is a smaller engine that uses a turbo to make more power. The idea mentioned is that turbos add extra parts, so there may be more things that could go wrong than on a simpler naturally aspirated engine.
Naturally aspirated means the engine doesn’t use a turbo or supercharger to push air in. The host is suggesting that this simpler approach can be less complicated than turbo engines.
Hybrid cars use a gas engine plus an electric motor. In this discussion, the main takeaway is that hybrids may come with better warranty coverage than the regular gas-only versions.
A powertrain warranty is the coverage that pays for repairs to the car’s main moving parts (the drivetrain). When it includes the battery, it can be especially important for hybrid or electric cars.
A mild hybrid adds a small electric assist to the gas engine. It helps the car use less fuel, but it usually can’t run on electricity alone like a full electric car.
A plug-in hybrid is a car that uses both a gas engine and an electric motor, and you can charge it by plugging it in. The hosts are saying there were issues with earlier plug-in hybrid versions.
The Renault Modus is a smaller car made by Renault. It’s meant to be practical rather than sporty or high-end. The podcast mentions it because it’s a different kind of product compared to what Renault usually does.
The Kia Sportage is a compact SUV made by Kia. It’s designed for normal daily driving and family use, with a comfortable interior and practical space. The podcast mentions it because it’s one of the vehicles people consider in the compact SUV class.
Benchmarking means comparing a product to the best competitors to see how it stacks up. They’re saying the small-SUV market already has a lot of strong choices, so it’s tough to stand out.
The Bronco Sport is a smaller SUV made by Ford. It’s designed to handle rougher roads than a typical car, but it’s still easy to drive day to day. The podcast mentions it because it’s a smaller alternative in the same general “adventure SUV” idea.
The Ford Escape is a compact SUV made by Ford. It’s meant to compete with other popular small SUVs. The podcast mentions it because it’s been marketed as a contender, but not everyone paid attention.
The Ford Maverick is a small pickup truck. It’s made to carry things and handle light truck tasks, but in a size that’s easier to park and drive than bigger trucks. People talk about it because it’s meant to be a more budget-friendly pickup.
The Dodge Challenger is a sporty car made by Dodge. It’s designed for strong acceleration and a classic muscle-car style. The podcast mentions it because it’s closely tied to Dodge’s performance lineup.
Concept
brute force marketing
They mean a marketing approach that leans on obvious, attention-grabbing power and attitude. Instead of subtle improvements, it’s basically “make it feel extreme” to sell the car.
The Discovery Sport is a compact SUV made by Land Rover. It’s designed to be a comfortable family vehicle with a more upscale feel. The podcast mentions it because another car they’re discussing looks similar to it.
The Defender is an SUV made by Land Rover. It’s built to handle rough roads and off-road trails, but it can still be driven like a normal SUV. The podcast mentions it because it’s a capable, real-world SUV—not just a special-purpose vehicle.
The Ford Expedition is a large SUV made by Ford. It’s designed to carry more people and handle everyday driving with lots of room. The podcast mentions it because it’s a big, comfortable SUV option.
The Volvo V60 is a wagon, which is like a car but with extra cargo space behind the seats. It’s made for comfortable everyday driving and carrying things. The podcast mentions it because it’s one of the vehicles they drove.
Plug-in CarPlay is when you connect your iPhone to the car using a cable so the car can show maps, music, and apps. It’s the opposite of wireless CarPlay, which doesn’t need the cable.
The Volvo EX30 is a small electric car. They’re talking about different power versions (single motor vs dual motor) and whether the price and import costs make it a good deal.
The Jeep Cherokee is a compact-to-midsize SUV known for being practical and widely available in the US market. In this segment, it’s used as a comparison point to the EX30’s “second car in the city” idea and its focus on clever packaging.
Tariffs are extra taxes on imported products. If an EV is made overseas, tariffs can make it more expensive to bring into the country, which can reduce sales.
General Motors (GM) is referenced for its reported financial impact from tariffs, including expected refund amounts. The hosts use these figures to illustrate how tariffs can affect automakers’ balance sheets and potentially the cost of vehicles.
A Monroney is the sticker on a new car that shows the official pricing details. If a cost isn’t on the Monroney, it usually means it’s not part of the factory price.
An airbrushed logo is a painted design added to the car using an airbrush. It’s a custom look, and it can cost a lot because it’s labor-intensive.
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Hello, welcome to the Engines Podcast podcast.
I'm Matt the Motorheader, D'Andrea.
I'm here with Alistair Weaver. How are you?
I'm good, thanks, Matt. I'm good.
I was just thinking as you read that out,
that like all these years together now
and I still haven't got a name.
Oh, yeah. So the name thing, like, so it started when...
So when we launched CarCast with Adam Carolla,
this is going on 17 years now.
I think it will be 17 years, I think, or 17 years for me in June.
Is that right? That's crazy.
He was coming off the radio and radio,
especially like morning radio,
like everybody has the name.
You know, there's Kevin and Bean
and then there's, you know, so-and-so-and-so-and-so, right?
And Family Guy did the big comedy skit about it.
It's like Dingo and the baby was like, you know,
their comedy skit thing.
So it kind of started with there.
We had our buddy, Sandy Ganz.
He was the professor, Sandy Ganz,
and that's kind of where it came from.
I don't think a lot of podcasters do it,
but it's kind of left over from the radio days.
I think the influencer world,
you still get, like, I show speed and, you know,
Amrata instead of Emily Ratajowsky or whatever,
but you still get a bit of that.
But yeah, it's good, though.
It's good.
It's like, you know, I think it's good to have a tagline.
Well, because and back in the day, so I already had,
I was already using that term for something else.
I didn't think of it as a person, as a character,
as like a personality or a character or something like that.
But so I already have like the social media accounts
for moderator and the domain needs.
So I had it all.
So he was like, we need to come up with something.
I was like, well, I already invested money
into this name, Motorator, that I was using for a website.
And he's like, okay, there you go.
At least it's very easy with him.
It works. That was good.
I remember like a big fan of darts or something,
you know, darts, which not as big in America,
bigger in Europe, but getting bigger over here.
You know, and they've all got names that's like,
fill the power, Taylor.
And, you know, boxing's the same.
You need a bit of that.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's kind of like that as well, which is funny
because Adam was a boxer.
He's a boxing instructor, too.
Is it really that nice?
Yeah, yeah.
Actually, he did a wonderful movie called The Hammer
that you should try to find and watch.
It's a little autobiographical,
but it was, you know, Adam in his 40s
and he was a boxing instructor.
And, you know, it's a kind of a rom-com thing,
but it's funny.
And that one is definitely worth watching.
I just don't know where you can watch it.
It's like sitting in limbo at some licensing company.
But anyway, it's worth watching.
The Hammer was good.
I used to do a bit of boxing training back in the UK
with a guy who was a,
I think he'd been like an Argentinian middleweight champion
and he just gave me an extraordinary,
this is when I was racing and I was trying to keep fit,
but he just gave me an extraordinary insight
into like how full-on and brutal that sport is.
Yeah.
Like this guy was a middleweight
and I would be like a cruiserweight or something
and just the physical demands is what, you know,
and nobody was hitting me in the head.
Sort of like shadow boxing.
Yeah, Adam did something to his hands
because too much hitting the bag and they're kind of,
he's had some surgery or something on his hands,
but part of his workout regimen these days
is still a lot of like shadow boxing
and he's really fast and jump rope.
Like he's fast.
He can, I can assure you I'm not.
Yeah.
So yeah, he's still, he's still got it for sure.
All right.
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All right.
So coming off of the week and the weekend,
we were at the air water event.
I dug into a little bit of that event earlier this week
with Goldberg.
I went to the air water event and then I went to
this wonderful car collection of like hot rods
and muscle trucks and stuff, Bob and Kent Matringa.
They were down in that area as well.
So it was perfect timing.
Did both events at the same day.
So we kind of got into that, but you were down at air water
as well.
So we didn't really get too much into the cars.
I kind of talked a little bit about the event,
but I kind of want to get your take.
How did you like the event now that it's the fourth version,
the fourth event that they've done of air water?
I think we're going into Luftgekult 12 this year is in Atlanta.
Maybe we should start at the beginning.
And people have never heard of what we're talking about.
So Luftgekult was this concept that was set up by Pat Long
and a couple of others.
And Pat Long had been a Porsche works driver.
And it was independent of, correct if I'm wrong,
and I knew this map, but it was independent of Porsche.
And it was basically just to celebrate air-cooled Porsches,
which is very close to my heart,
has been an owner of an air-cooled Porsche.
And what I particularly always enjoyed about it
is that they came at the concept in a slightly different way.
It was always very curated.
It was interesting locations.
The first one I went to was a timber yard,
quite close to where I live.
And it was literally just a timber yard,
but they used this to curate this incredible open air museum
of all these cars and used all the pallets and everything else.
So if you were a design fan as I am,
you kind of worked on multiple levels.
You had the cars, but you also have this kind of wonderful theater.
And they did another one at Universal Studios.
I think they've done it a couple of times there.
So this became their trademark.
And then in recent years, I've extended it
to the whole air-water thing.
It's like, okay, how do we bring in the modern cars?
Yeah.
The water-cooled stuff, which of course started with the 996 of 1998,
and also then Porsche themselves have got a bit more involved
because it's given them the opportunity
to show off the new cars, not just the classic cars.
I went down.
I thought it was a great event.
I took my four-year-old and we had a nice little Daddy Sunday out.
It wasn't quite as artistic as some of the Lefkir Kultz has been.
I think it's a nice location.
It was down in Costa Mesa in Newport Beach.
It didn't have that kind of art museum feeling quite the same way
as some of the best Lefkir Kultz have.
Yeah, I don't think it was supposed to.
I don't think it was ever supposed to.
It's partly curated and partly like,
there is a parking lot of Porsches.
You can show your car up there for a couple of bucks or something.
There is that thing about maybe more of a kind of meet-up
with a few cars.
It doesn't have that quite that same aura as Lefkir Kultz for me,
but it was also interesting because you saw people trying to
sell cars there.
There was Gambala was there.
I think Singer had a little thing going on,
and then Porsche themselves.
Gunter works.
Gunter works.
I kept calling it Gambala, I don't know.
Gambala did have a car there, I believe.
I believe they did have one car there.
That's right, yeah.
I don't know if it was from the relaunch
or whatever manufacturer from Gambala or a customer car,
but it was something.
I tagged something up wrong on Instagram,
so I again got somebody saying to me, that's wrong.
But it definitely is the car.
And then Porsche had the...
I went down, it was great to catch it
with some of Porsche's team who were there supporting the launch
of the GT3 SC, as it's now known.
SC, yeah.
Sports convertible sports.
What's the SC?
I can't remember what it's called now.
What's the SC stand for?
I didn't know this,
and I even did my research before we came on air,
and now I can't remember what it's called.
You would think it's sport convertible, but...
It's not, is it?
It's something else.
Yeah.
Anyway, it's the 911 GT3 S slash C.
It's very, very interesting.
A few days before they officially announced it,
my house is on the Porsche prototype drive test route.
I think they came out of the port of LA,
drive past my house,
and I was taking the kids out for coffee,
and one drove past me in a very thin state of disguise.
And I was like, oh, that's interesting.
That's a GT3 convertible.
In fact, my first instinct was it was actually an ST,
and they were doing an ST,
and they kind of have done a cross between
the ST coupe that they did,
and then the standard GT3.
And this is actually the replacement for the Speedster.
Normally, at this point in the model cycle's life,
they do a Speedster version.
So we had a 992 version of...
Sorry, they had a 991 Speedster,
which became very collectible.
There was a couple of them that lived near me.
But they're not doing a Speedster this time.
They're going to do the GT3 SC instead,
and it's not going to be a special edition.
They're going to build as many as people want in theory.
It's still going to be fairly exclusive
because they can't build that many.
But it's not like a 200-vehicle run, and we're done.
This is a full production model.
But it's the first time we've had...
The Speedster had the GT3 engine,
but this is the first time we've had something
batched GT3 that's a convertible.
So I like the look, and I think it's cool.
But the fact that it's not the Speedster,
but it is still just a two-seater,
I've been seeing quite a few comments online
after I posted about this and others posted about it saying,
we kind of would have preferred the Speedster.
There was just something a little bit more unique,
and it makes it stand out visually
with that Speedster tonneau on the back.
So again, we've seen this with Porsche is,
unless you're a super fanatic,
they start to kind of look the same.
So you try to find little ways to differentiate the ones you go,
oh, I want the GT3 touring because it doesn't have the big wing.
And then the other side of the coin is everyone goes,
I want the big wing,
so it doesn't look like every other 911.
While you were trying to look at it,
Sport Cabriolet, I was calling it Sport Convertible,
and you were like, what's wrong with Sport Cabriolet,
but it's S slash C,
and obviously there's some historical
association with 911 SCs.
I'm with you Matt, and I think it's deliberate
because I think Porsche's margin is in these cars.
Like they make a ton of money off these cars.
This thing is starting at 275,000 bucks.
Now, you and I were discussing off air how this plays out
because they're saying it's a bit like a GTS
that you get more kit than you would on a standard GT3 coupe,
and therefore it's better value.
But the reality is it's 275,
by the time then you get it tweaked and personalized,
this is, you're going to be paying 300,000 plus for this car,
which is a phenomenal amount of money for a non-special edition 911.
Yeah.
And I think Porsche's just looking at a market and going like,
there's enough people want these, we can make a ton of margin.
The company's not in a great financial health at the moment,
so this is a good cash cow for us.
So let's not limit ourselves to 200.
Let's just go ahead with this, and we'll make a ton of cash.
And there's a lot of business logic in that.
I love the speedsters of all the 911s.
I've always loved the speedsters.
I get why they're doing this,
but there's also a little bit of me goes, all right,
it's another super expensive, super trick 911 for the super rich.
And I'm excited to drive it,
and I'm sure I'll love it and everything else,
but it's taken the 911 into this otherworldly existence.
And for me, the 911 has always been that kind of accessible sports car.
It hasn't been accessible in a long time.
But you think about it, this is now double the price of a 911T convertible cabriolet,
which is probably 90% of the car.
I think the 911T is also a manual gearbox, also looks tremendous,
goes plenty fast enough for,
certainly unless you're going to take it the track all the time,
and you're probably not going to take the cabriolet version to the track.
So the 911T does probably 90% of what this car does for literally half the price.
That won't stop people buying this because everybody will want this,
but I just feel like Porsche is peppering the top of the market
because that's where the margin is,
and they've just realized there's enough people with tens of millions of bucks
who are willing to spend this kind of money on a 911.
But there's a little bit that's like, I'd love to see something interesting,
a little bit more accessible.
Yeah, and I kind of see Porsche's thought on this though of going,
we've done a handful of special edition cars,
we've seen the resale value of those cars,
or even the dealer markups on those cars.
What if we try to do something and say it's not limited edition,
you can come in, you can order it.
That's not to say dealers won't try to get markups on it,
but if you come in and you order it, you can get the car,
and you don't have to rush to get one of the 500 we make or 1500 that we make.
Maybe it's an attempt to make it, this sounds crazy,
but to make it more affordable because if you had a $275,000 Porsche,
and it was limited, and dealers are starting to get or starting to get,
I don't want to say get or starting to ask for $80,000, $90,000 markups,
this may be Porsche's way of going, this car doesn't need a markup
because we can just get you one when you want one.
Yeah, if you're patient.
I think that's a neat way of looking at it.
I think it's also them saying, well, we want the money.
Making a ton of money off the brand.
And also, you look at this, it's like, oh, it's $300,000.
And then, as you say, there's the Gambala and the Gunterworks,
and you look at those, and they're like a million.
They're like, oh, well, this is a million and a half,
and everybody's still going, oh, yeah, that's nice.
I'll have one of those.
So there is definitely a market, and they're looking around.
Singers now in the millions.
Gunterworks is in the millions.
Gambalas in the millions.
And there's others also tuning Porsches
who are spending well north of a million bucks.
And there were people out there buying this stuff.
So who's the fool here?
I think it's just philosophically,
it just feels like they're getting further away
from being that kind of German cover in a way,
that sort of accessible sports car.
But then, same with the classics, they keep, they keep.
I mean, in case anybody thinks I'm rolling in cash,
I paid 25,000 pounds to mine.
And then sold it when I moved to America
and bought the same car, used the money to buy the same thing.
So I paid like 30,000 bucks to mine.
So they kept rolling in cash.
And I remember years ago, when you,
soon after you got here, you're like,
I need to get another Porsche, because I got rid of my Porsche
and then I was going to go.
But at the time, you were thinking like,
oh, I could just sell it there, then come here
and get another one like you did.
And it wasn't like a huge difference in price
versus like shipping it here.
You'd have to put it on a boat or put on a plane.
And it was like 10 grand.
Yeah, it was basically the same price.
I just sold it, sold it in the UK,
converted it into dollars and bought it.
I wasn't even going to buy the same car.
And then I, in the end, I saw it and thought,
yeah, that's just who I am and what I enjoy.
So yeah, and even then, it's like,
look, I've been very fortunate.
I am talking about like a 20 year, a 15 year time cycle here.
But yes, it's very nice to have like an appreciating asset,
something that's worth money.
You know, good for the inheritance or whatever.
But at the same time, you know, the insurance goes up,
there's a whole associated thing with that, you know,
how much you drive it, it becomes an issue.
You know, do you want to, how you park it?
What do you do with it?
When it was 25 grand, you just,
it was almost like an everyday car.
It's a, so you know, it changes the psychology.
I had a colleague who bought a nine, six, four club sport
and they went from like 50 grand to 250 insane money.
I think there were even more than that now.
And he was like, I don't know what to do with it anymore.
I can't take it shopping.
I can barely afford to insure it.
It's like, you know, I'm going to have to sell it
and take the cash, which is not really the point.
You buy one for 50, you sell it years later for 250.
But if you're in California between the gas prices
or insurance prices or registration prices,
you're a $200,000 profit.
You probably lose that just the nose alone.
It's getting crazy when California is
charging for some of this stuff.
I keep looking at, like we were talking in the office
the other day about what, what, what should we,
you know, wanting to add to the ownership fleet
and also have a bit of balance.
So we've got a lot of sort of sensible SUVs
and we wanted to have something that, you know,
talks to different audiences and, you know,
the subject of getting a Miata came up again
and everybody's like, let's get the Miata.
It's like 30 grand, you know,
get the little roadster version with a soft top stick shift.
Everybody in the office can then, you know,
get to eat home there to stick shifting skills.
And I was like, makes a, you know,
makes a lot of sense.
It's not going to depreciate too much.
And every time you have this conversation,
like the master Miata stuff, you know,
comes to the top.
Yeah. Well, look, it's, it hasn't really been
in the news much because it's kind of the same thing
years and years going on now.
But if you can consider them the investment in a Miata
compared to some of the unfortunate investments that,
that, that we've seen, like the Dodge Charger
we talked about last week and,
and one we made fun of for a while on the Fisker,
that, that Fisker alone, you could have bought two Miatas.
Miata would just be, I was looking at that,
was we're just looking at the pictures on my screen
of the, the GT3SC.
And I was thinking, you know, that's, I mean,
it is literally 10 times the price of a Miata.
Literally. Yeah.
And I just thought actually, you know, Miata,
Miata just does, again, does a big change.
I know they're different, different.
It's a silly comparison on one level.
But, you know, if you, if you want a fun car, they're still,
you know, I still, such a, such a great thing.
All right. So I got some more stuff to talk about,
but let's just take a quick break and we will be right back.
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Okay, we are back.
I wanted to bring up,
so I saw this test you guys put together
on the Edmunds website.
You were taking another three-way test.
It's a Jeep Cherokee Hyundai Tucson and Toyota RAV4.
These are small hybrid SUVs
and putting them up against each other.
I just had a conversation with a friend the other day
about the reliability of used cars
and what to look for.
Because someone was saying,
oh, I was driving this Volkswagen
and I've replaced so many parts on water pump
and fuel injectors and things like that.
And his theory was maybe I should avoid
the four-cylinder turbo version of a car
because there's so much more complex and could break
and I should just get like the naturally aspirated
V6 version of a car.
They said maybe I should stay away from hybrid.
I said, well, hybrid cars,
in the case of something like Toyota,
often have a better powertrain warranty
compared to the non-hybrid gas only versions of it,
which is something to take a look at
when you're looking to buy a new vehicle.
Maybe not leasing because if you're leasing
just for a few years,
the warranty pretty much covers it anyway.
Like when I got my mom's Toyota RAV4,
we got the hybrid.
It had a little bit more power.
It had better gas mileage,
but really it was going to be a car that she bought
and kept for for a long time.
So we went for the longest warranty,
powertrain warranty on the battery.
And for her, that car,
she doesn't know the difference really
if it's got electric motor or not.
She doesn't have to plug it in.
It's just regular hybrid,
which is things that we're fans of.
So looking at this test of hybrids,
I don't know if you guys got into it too much,
but the warranty is one of the things
I'd be looking at as well.
Yeah. And I think the reality is like,
if you think how many hundreds of thousands,
probably the millions now that hybrid Toyota has made,
it's not this kind of emergent technology.
You know, I think within almost so many cars now
are hybridized to some extent,
whether it be mild hybrid or a full hybrid.
I wouldn't even really think about it.
I think it's a very different proposition to an EV
and everything else,
but you're talking about very small batteries.
You're talking about proven technology
built in huge volumes.
So I think the days are gone when you would,
you know, you would think about this as being some,
you know, some concern,
because it is just becoming normalized now.
And if you look at how most brands handle it,
including Toyota,
they're not even sold as hybrids anymore.
They just cars that happen to be hybrid.
And interestingly in the Cherokee,
you know, Stellantis is not necessarily known as,
you know, a particularly cutting edge company at the moment.
But, you know, the Cherokee is hybrid only.
They've had a lot of problems with the plug-in hybrids,
but this is a different thing.
So, you know, now new Cherokee,
and this is a,
this is pitched directly as we've put it here
against RAV4, Hyundai Tucson, Honda CR-V,
you know, Cherokee's been away for a while.
It seems odd to me that it has been away for a while
because this market is so, you know,
this is the number one market in the U.S., small SUVs.
But it's back.
And we were not like overly impressed, sadly.
It's really like, I feel like on the show,
we've, we talked about the charger and,
you know, our intention is not to sort of beat up on Stellantis.
So, that's not really the, it's not the kind of modus operandi.
It's just, it's another product from them that's kind of okay,
but not, not great.
Right, right.
Well, in a market that is really, really competitive,
you know, the RAV4, we don't have the RAV4
at the top of our rankings, but it's good.
You know, and the Hyundai Tucson hybrid is,
does top our rankings.
We like that.
We like the Sportage.
We like the, you know, we do like the RAV4.
CRV is still a strong contender.
And obviously the, the Cherokee's come along
when all of those things exist.
So you're thinking a benchmarking world,
you've already got all that.
And, you know, it's, it's, it's a bit expensive.
And it's, you know, it, it, it doesn't have the best driving experience.
It doesn't necessarily have the, the best interior.
And it's, it's, it's a chunk of change,
which is surprising.
You normally expect them to be good value, but it's a shame
because I think this market, this small SUV market
is crying out for cars with a bit more character.
You know, the, the CRV, the RAV4,
certainly the new Mazda CX-5, they're all kind of,
they're all sort of a bit of a much of a muchness.
They all kind of paint by numbers.
I think the opportunity to come into the market
with something a bit different.
The Tucson's a bit more distinctive.
You know, seeing it with things like the Bronco Sport,
although it's a bit smaller than these, you know,
at least offers something that's a bit more characterful.
And you kind of think with Jeep, well,
if you come in with something that's, you know,
a bit more GP, then it does feel like there's an opportunity for them.
But it's, yeah, it's all right, but it's not,
it's not come in and taking it, taking the class by storm.
It's, and it's tough for Jeep to get into that market
because it's, it's high volume.
It's very popular.
It's very competitive.
Your point about Bronco Sport,
Bronco Sport, Ford, try to get into that market
and compete with the big sellers with a Ford Escape and nobody cared.
And everyone was like.
And nobody, and even, you're right, even Ford,
because the Escape wasn't a terrible car,
it wasn't outstanding, but it wasn't terrible.
But yeah, it was, even Ford couldn't somehow pull it off.
And, and so the Bronco Sport is just an escape,
you know, an escape in a track suit, basically.
Right. They just, they just, you know, they took it to REI
and they said, let's just do that version.
You know, they got it outfitted over there.
Yeah, put some Patagonia on it and we sorted.
That was it. You know, they gave it goat modes
and some Patagonia wear and then it's doing well for them
to the point where they're like, well, we don't need the Escape.
They were done. Just, you know, just get rid of it.
Let's just keep investing.
And even the Maverick, for that matter,
the Maverick is actually an escape made truck.
And it was quite a clever, and I'm a big fan of the Maverick,
but I think they were quite clever.
They said, isn't it, we can't sell SUVs,
so let's turn it into a truck and we can sell trucks.
We're good at that. And it's worked for them.
So, but the Jeep Cherokee has, you know, has heritage.
You know, you still see a lot of the older ones around,
like the squared off ones.
And it's, I think there's an opportunity for them,
but they also haven't really, for me, they are going to do over,
you know, they are going to do a Trailhawk version
and everything else and make it a bit more off-road.
But they haven't really leaned into the jeepness either.
It's quite a conventional, it's quite a conventional small SUV.
It doesn't, doesn't have that, to your point,
the kind of REI-ness about it all.
Right. Unfortunately, they,
they haven't really hit the mark on quality either.
We've seen a few things there. Listen, I mean,
as successful as the previous charger was, and the Challenger,
but especially the charger, that was just done
with really good creative marketing and brute force.
Like let's just throw a monster engine, which is a great engine,
into a car that is okay.
And let's just put it out there and, you know, every,
let's just, you know, the muscle car commercials
and fast and furious movies and every TV show,
cop car has a charger and like they just went all out
and they just continue to sell this very long-in-the-tooth platform.
Look, I get it. I know it's not great. I've driven plenty of them.
I know objectively it's not a fantastic car, but I, I, it's charming.
It is. They won customers over with it. They're like, it's just...
It looks really cool and it's, and I like the new charger.
I like the way the new charger looks.
And I think maybe we'll go down the same route, stick a big V8 in it,
accept that it's not objectively the greatest thing ever,
but it's really charming and it looks really cool.
And maybe with the Cherokee, they will have a bit of a more of an opportunity
and maybe they still will as they, as they sort of iterate it to,
to, to give it a bit more of that.
I think in this, in this market, particularly it's so competitive,
you've got to give people a reason to buy it.
And I look at this Cherokee and I think, you know, what's my,
what's my reason for buying this?
Or shall I just buy a CRV or a, or a Hyundai or something?
And that's the bit that I struggled with with it.
Because you would think lean into something that you're good at, right?
And if you're cheap, lean into what Ford did with Bronco Sport.
Yeah, make it, yeah.
G, G, you know, and that, and honestly, it can be a bit of war paint and it doesn't have to be,
it can be largely aesthetic, you know, and then do a, do a hero model at the top of the range.
But yeah, it's, it's, um, yeah, so it reminds me a little bit of the Land Rover Discovery Sport,
which aesthetically, it looks quite similar and it's a similar size,
but that's also another part where you're like,
I already forgot they had that thing.
Yeah, exactly.
It's kind of forgettable.
In fact, the discoveries are all a bit forgettable, which is a shame.
So yeah, I, a friend reached out a while ago and said, you know, it's like, I'm,
was going to get a new Land Rover and I went and, you know, I was like,
gosh, it's like the Land Rover Sport is so expensive now.
I'm going to get this little discovery and had it for like 10 days.
And then I was just like, nah, I just brought it back and just paid the extra money for the Sport.
It's just like, it's just not the same.
It's just, you know,
we were talking about another thing when this move with, you know, like a,
I'd love a, we think about Defender was, you know, Defender is, is also a few years old now,
but it's a, it's still a, you know, I think it's still a cool thing, but it plays on
what they've done quite smartly about the Land Rover.
The Defender is, it's still basically an SUV.
It's not particularly, you know, it's, it's got a lot of the SUV traits,
but it has that kind of REI vibe about it, doesn't it?
You sort of look at it and you go to Whole Foods in it and you feel like you're off on expedition.
And maybe that's where Jeep, for me, needs to, needs to go.
They need to make every, every trip to Whole Foods feel like, you know,
like it's a, like it's an adventure, like you're off to Moab.
Yeah. 100%.
You walk through the, any parking lot, you'll, you'll walk right past that Jeep Cherokee and
not think twice about it until you, you know, when you see a Defender, you do look at it and you're
like, yeah, I think it's kind of cool. Yeah.
You know, okay.
So, another thing I wanted to bring up, talking about the, the Edmunds fleet.
So I'd mentioned a couple of weeks ago, I went and saw the new Volvo EV that's coming out.
And it, I've been driving a few of the EVs.
I drove the V60, I drove the wagon, I drove one of the other SUVs.
They showed me this new EV, which really looks gorgeous.
And the new tech, one of the things we talked about was, you know, they were kind of behind on,
you know, still had like plug-in carplay.
It wasn't wireless carplay.
The infotainment system was a little slow.
So when I went to the new, to the debut of this new EV, they talked about new Nvidia chips and
faster response on everything and wireless stuff and, and it looked good.
But I had already scheduled the, the little EV to be on my driving list, right?
The EX30.
You know, I think you went, you went overseas.
You went to Europe to drive this thing originally and you guys have one?
I did.
I went to Barcelona, a lovely trip to Barcelona.
God, excuse me.
It's been a long way up to your thing.
It's not my professional.
I did.
I went to, I went to Barcelona, had a little trip to Barcelona to drive it.
It was nice.
The trip to Barcelona, I think was probably nicer than the, than the EX30.
Well, actually, I, I slightly disagree.
Actually, when the, the problem with the EX30 was it was going to be a, the reason I went,
actually, was this was going to be the first 35 grand EV and I drove the 35 grand EV version,
which was like a single motor.
And I thought this is actually a really nice little car.
And if they can genuinely get it in at 30 to 35 grand, then I think it's got a,
it's got a chance and it was charming and it was, it was efficient and, and all the rest of it.
But, you know, now they've got this problem that they're all built in China.
They're too expensive to bring in.
Nobody's buying and they're going to kill them.
The one that we ended up buying was the dual motor, which was kind of ridiculous.
It was, it was fun in a slightly stupid way in that it would do zero to 60 and four seconds or
something, but not really where the sweet spot of this vehicle was.
And now they're going to discontinue it.
And for me at 35 grand, it made a lot of sense.
It was charming.
It was kind of what we're talking about the Cherokee, right?
It was different.
You've got really nice little interior, lots of clever thinking to maximize the space,
quite cute looking.
Yes, it's small for the US, but certainly as a second car in the city.
I thought it, I thought it was great.
But now, you know, they can't, they just can't make it work financially.
So it's kind of, you know, being, being killed as part of the, part of the tariffs.
Going on with tariffs, actually, one of the interesting things this week
in the, oh, there's been a lot of financial reporting this week from Ford and food GM.
And everybody says, well, you know, what is the impact of tariffs?
Well, actually Ford, I think GM came out and said, we're getting like a $500 million check back
from the tariffs.
And then Ford came out and said, well, ours is 1.2 billion and all of this had a,
you know, really positive benefit on the balance sheet.
And that doesn't even account for the full impact of tariffs because this whole
legal case and the kind of refund of the tariff fees isn't actually, you know,
a lot of those tariffs are still in place on the materials.
It's just some of the tariffs have been struck down.
So it doesn't even, it's not even the true cost of the tariffs.
When you see it in black and white like that, that's a lot of money.
And so, you know, when people say, well, how much, you know,
how much impact has it really had when it's laid bare like that?
You know, that's just a refund check and that doesn't really cover the real cost.
So, yeah, it's eye-watering really.
So the EX30 is just a victim of that.
Well, I'm going to drive it.
I am still looking forward to driving it.
And when you say they're going to discontinue it in the US because of those reasons,
because of things like tariffs and stuff.
So it might be available in other places.
And one of the things we have talked about in the past was car companies trying to absorb
as much of those tariff costs to less of an impact on the buyer.
So I was cruising around online the other day and just before we wrap up,
I just wanted to show you this.
So I went over to bring a trailer and somebody had the Ferrari, the 12-cylindry, right?
I'm just going to bring it up here.
Didn't sell.
By the way, didn't sell at $740,000.
But it actually looks amazing.
It's quite a nice trim.
I don't like it.
I kind of like still working out whether I like the way it looks this one.
But yeah.
But in the gray because it kind of hides the black nose and blends a little bit more like a little.
So as every car company is struggling to try to like offset tariffs and things like that,
as I was scrolling through this listing, I went down to the gallery and I think you're going to
get a kick out of this.
So they posted the window sticker.
So the car was $700,000.
So it starts at $460,000.
It's got a bunch of options.
This is a weird window sticker.
By the way, it says other options, $161,000.
Here's a list and then other stuff.
But this is great.
Tariff contribution, $58,922 and stuff.
Tariff contribution sounds like you tip them.
I'm also just reading.
There's also one that you've really misjudged.
So it says, manufacture suggested port of entry retail price.
$460,000, if I'm reading this right.
Yeah, $460,000.
Delivery prep and handling fee, $5,000.
I mean, that's typically about $5,800 for a normal car.
And then you've got additional costs, $30,000.
Is that markup?
I mean, what's that?
I don't think so because it wouldn't be on the original windows.
No, it wouldn't be on the Monroney, would it?
So I have no idea what additional costs $30,000 is.
That's just small stuff.
And then Tariff contribution, that's fantastic, $60,000.
And then you've basically got all this list of options,
air quality sensors, blah, blah, blah.
Airbrushed logo is $14,800.
But that's that hand drawn thing.
Okay, but $14,000, you go to car shows and events.
We were just at air water and the guy was hand painting on the side of cars.
But I do like other options.
Other options, $161,000.
That reminds me of an expenses claim that one of my colleagues put in
when we'd been on a foreign trip.
He tried to list it all and then got bored and just wrote things.
Got rejected.
Yeah, well, they're not hiding this Tariff thing.
By the way, who knows if more Tariff costs are just rolled
under this $30,000 of additional costs and $161,000 of other options.
But I love the fact that we just paid that.
It's like, what's the additional cost?
No idea.
No idea.
It's fine, it's done.
It's fine.
They don't even want it on the Monroney.
They're like, yeah, whatever.
You know, it's okay.
That's genius.
Well, there you go.
That's how they're handling Tariffs.
They just run it through like it is what it is, my friend.
Yeah.
Okay.
I know you've got to run off to another meeting as well,
so we're going to wrap things up.
But what you got looking forward to next week?
I'm good.
Well, next week we're going to talk about,
I went down to see Ford's EV, new EV facility.
We can have a chat about that next week.
Probably going to get out of the test truck on Monday.
Yeah, a few things going on.
Yeah, awesome.
A busy week as always.
I'm heading to Detroit as well for, funny enough,
a Ford event.
So I'll be back.
I should be able to talk about it when we get back.
So next week, awesome.
Thanks, guys.
See you next time.
Until then, keep the air in the spare and the bag in the wheel.
Thank you for listening.
About this episode
The conversation moves from Porsche culture and the Air|Water event into the new GT3 SC, framed as a pricey, full-production replacement for the Speedster. From there, the hosts pivot to Edmunds’ small hybrid SUV comparison, where the Cherokee struggles to stand out against the Tucson, RAV4, and other established hybrids. The back half widens into pricing and tariff talk, including a Ferrari window sticker with eye-popping charges, before ending with a tease of Ford’s EV facility coverage.
