Road To Success with Benedict Fowler May 28, 2026

Carl Hartley & Rob Moore On Starting Cars & Money & Expose Their Differences!

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Car

Lamborghini Aventador

The Lamborghini Aventador is a very expensive, high-speed sports car made for fast driving. The Aventador S is a version that’s tuned for stronger performance, and it’s the kind of car people talk about when discussing how much these cars cost in different places.

Concept

parking in assets like property

“Parking” money just means putting it somewhere to sit and hopefully grow. Here, they’re comparing investing in property versus other assets like cars.

Concept

investment cars as property

They’re talking about buying cars the way people buy property: as an asset that might increase in value. The goal is usually to sell later for more than you paid.

Car

Lambo Diablo

The Lamborghini Diablo is a super-expensive, high-performance Lamborghini from the 1990s era. Here, the host is using it as an example of a car someone might buy with the idea that it will become worth more later.

Concept

great yield

“Yield” in property investing usually means the return you get relative to the price you paid—often tied to rental income. The speaker contrasts that with whether they believe the projected returns will actually happen.

Car

Aston Martin DB5

“DB5” and “DB6” are older Aston Martin sports cars. They’re famous and collectible, so seeing one being brought into a driveway is a big deal.

Car

Ferrari 458

A Ferrari 458 is a high-end supercar made by Ferrari. It’s the kind of car that’s low and expensive to repair, so even a short crash—like hitting bushes and then a building—can turn into a big, costly problem.

Term

brake failure

“Brake failure” means the brakes didn’t work properly when they needed them. That can happen for different reasons, like a problem in the brake system or the brakes not working well right after starting.

Term

brakes fail

“Brakes fail” means the brakes don’t work the way they should. The speaker is saying they later found out the incident was actually caused by brake failure.

Car

930 turbo

“930 turbo” is a Porsche 911 Turbo from the 930 generation. The point of the story is that it behaved in a way that surprised them, especially during hard braking.

Term

locked up

“Locked up” means the wheels stop spinning while braking. When that happens, the car can skid and you may not be able to steer as well.

Term

anti-lock brakes

Anti-lock brakes are a safety system that helps you keep control when you brake hard. Without ABS, the wheels can lock up and you can lose steering and grip.

Car

Countache

The Lamborghini Countach is a famous old supercar with a very low, tight cabin. It can be hard to get into and out of, so the host is basically saying it won’t be comfortable for him.

Car

Mercury Monterey

The Mercury Monterey is an older American car made for comfortable driving, often for families or long trips. People bring cars like this to big car shows because they show what cars were like in the past.

Term

limp mode

Limp mode is when the car “puts itself in a safe mode” after it senses a problem. It usually reduces power so you can still drive carefully to get it checked.

Term

air hose

The air hose is a tube that carries air to the engine. If it comes loose, the engine may not get the right amount of air, so it can run poorly and the car may limit power.

Concept

freeway

A freeway is a fast highway with multiple lanes and limited access. Driving a car in a problem state on a freeway can be tough because traffic moves quickly.

Car

Mclaren F1

The McLaren F1 is a very famous, very expensive supercar made by McLaren. Here, it’s mentioned because the speaker had to reverse in a tiny space while parked near it. The point is that maneuvering gets stressful when you’re close to cars you really don’t want to hit.

Term

reversing camera

A reversing camera is a screen that shows what’s behind the car when you back up. It helps you see things you can’t easily see over your shoulder. Here, not having one made it harder to park safely in a tight spot.

Brand

Pagani

Pagani is a luxury supercar brand from Italy. Their cars are famous for being extremely rare and expensive, and they’re built for serious performance.

Brand

Bugatti

Bugatti is a famous brand that makes very expensive, high-performance supercars. Here, it’s mentioned to show the speaker works with parts and service for top-tier cars.

Company

Simon Furlonger

Simon Furlonger is mentioned as the contact behind a specialist service setup. The speaker is saying they work with this person/company for parts and service on expensive supercars.

Brand

Lamborghinis

Lamborghini is a well-known supercar brand. The point here is that the speaker sends their Lamborghinis to a specialist service centre for help.

Company

GVA

GVA is mentioned as part of the speaker’s business network. It sounds like they have support behind them for selling cars, not something technical about the vehicles themselves.

LIVE

Your Andrew Tate Bonnie Blue interview.

We live in Clownwood, and I just enjoy the circus.

Ha ha ha!

Did you consult anybody before doing it?

No. No, I'm not going to be in trouble for that.

When was the first year you stopped looking at yourself negatively?

No, I haven't.

Well, you say that.

You were very proud to talk about the figures that you guys have achieved.

That's the part just to f*** you off.

Yeah, because...

Growing up, what did it look like for you?

Do you want all my f***ing trauma?

Well, I mean Marina.

I was the fattest kid in my year, and I f***ing hated it.

Did you ever have a really difficult moment growing up?

I started in business before, you know, I knew how to spell Monday or the day of the week.

I was just thrown in the deep end.

If you f*** up, well, you don't have to deal with it.

Hypothetically, what if you have a guest that really wants to come on?

But the thing that they like to partial say is where the money comes from

isn't actually where the money comes from.

And the money comes from something illegal.

Take for a character, like f*** right now.

No one can give you a complete and utter unless you're right in the circle.

Has anyone ever asked a friend?

I tried to ask him and he...

Gentlemen, welcoming you both to the back of the Road to Success van.

For one of you, Carl, you've been in here before.

I have.

And for the other Rob, this is a first-time pleasure of hosting you,

and I can't wait to get into asking some questions.

But in your own words, because you are together and I want you to answer this together,

who are you and what do you do?

Who are you, Rob?

I asked myself that a lot.

Okay, I'll go first.

I am Carl Hartley, co-owner of Tom Hartley Cars, co-host of Cars and Money podcast.

And I am Europe's largest supercar dealer.

I'm Rob Moore, co-host of Cars and Money with Carl Hartley.

And a property investor.

I've been investing in property for 20 years.

I hosted Disruptors podcast for 10 years.

And I have the UK's largest property and business training company called Progressive.

You two have obviously clicked off each other.

I must have known from the moment that you met each other

that you were destined to do something because you just know, don't you?

When you meet someone, it's like one day something with us is going to happen.

What was that first moment where you both met?

Rob, I can't remember how you approached me.

Could have been via Instagram maybe, I think.

And asked me to appear on his show Disruptors

because apparently I'm quite a disruptive person.

So I gladly went on his show.

I knew about his show obviously beforehand.

And then it was sort of a reoccurring thing.

Then we had sort of a part two.

Do you have a part three as well?

Probably.

Yeah, probably.

And your views were good.

We got on the more we spent around each other, we got on really well.

We're a bit chalk and cheese, but I think that works really well.

And yeah, we've created a bit of a dynamic between the two of us.

And then Rob took me out for dinner one night.

And I thought he was going to give me some money for another car, but he didn't.

I've only bought three of them, sorry, that's not enough.

Three podcasts, three cars, it wasn't bad.

Charging him more than me.

Every time I came back from interviewing him I had a new car.

And then we went out for dinner.

And Rob said, look, the last few shows we've done have done really well.

I really enjoy doing stuff with you.

How do you feel about coming together and making our own podcast?

So I was like, you know, I'm very busy, Rob's very busy.

Obviously with disruptors running alongside it as well or so.

I mean, it's a full-time job just doing his line of work,

let alone doing all the filming and the podcasting and everything like that.

So I said, look, you know, we'll give it, let's give it 10 episodes.

Let's see how it goes.

And we've just released our 19th episode.

21st, I think.

21st episode.

Yeah, although we took one down, didn't we?

We did.

Yeah, there's no 20.

Which we'll have to get into.

I mean, yeah, we have some diverse people on our podcast.

So yeah, it's going great.

I'm enjoying it.

We've got ourselves in a bit of a rhythm where we sort of set aside at least one day a week

where we travel up and down the country or the world sometimes.

And I feel very interested in people with their interesting cars.

See, one day a week, though, when there's a car there that's 1.3 million quid,

if you sold that car, I'm sure there's many situations where you can make 100 grand on that car,

maybe more, whatever it is that your margin is, it makes your time worth a lot of money.

If Robert approached you in year one, even with that spark where podcasts were, say,

nine years ago, would you have said yes or no?

It's hard to say because I'm still very new to listening to podcasts and stuff.

I listen to Joe Rogan.

I listen to your podcast.

I listen to Rob's podcast.

I don't listen to many, any of the people worth listening to.

And that's quite an elite gang, actually, you two and Joe Rogan, I suppose.

I appreciate being included.

And probably not, no.

And it was always a bit of a trial and error for me to do it, to make the effort,

make the time to do it.

But I promised Rob that I would make the time and effort and do it.

And I'm very glad I have.

It's worked very well for the business, I think.

It's worked very well for brand awareness and just getting in front of people.

People tell me all the time, every time they put YouTube on or something.

I'm sick of looking at me, basically.

So the answer to the question is probably no, only because I didn't understand the

podcasting world at that point.

But then that's what I find really interesting because you did.

Because I said to you before we started, I think one of the only other people that I've had in

this van that's interviewed for the length of time that you have is Jay Leno.

So what did you see in podcasts right at the infancy of them becoming a thing that made you

start one?

I didn't really see anything other than I want to have the biggest business in my niche.

And maybe even a bigger business outside of my niche.

And whatever it takes to do that, I'll do.

If you have to do Facebook Lives, I'll do Facebook Lives.

If you have to have a podcast, you have to have a podcast.

So I launched a podcast 10 years and four months ago when no one was really doing it.

I was back then listening to Joe Rogan and Tim Ferriss.

They were the two big guys, sort of had some business angle to them.

And I was just like, well, I want to be big.

So I'll do what it takes.

It's a labor of love when you've had a podcast for 10 and a half years, you know it.

The hardest thing for Carl and I I think is merging the diaries.

The amount of times it's like, I've cleared it, he can't, he's cleared it.

I can't.

Yes, can't.

There's three of you that have got to agree when you're all busy.

So I didn't really know how big my podcast would be disruptors, over 3000000000 views.

Carl's money is blown up way quicker and bigger than I thought.

Carl's just kind of like, oh, really?

Oh, okay.

Well, I don't really know how it goes.

I wish he did, because then he'd know what great momentum we've got on Carl's money.

We're over 400,000 views per episode on average for a new show.

And that's big.

It's rare to find two people that interview together.

That's why if I'm fascinating about people, I find their dynamics really interesting.

I kind of think it doesn't matter necessarily, but I think,

would these two guys have sat down at school and had really good conversations?

Or is that only because they've become other people?

I'm fucking ten years older than him.

I didn't go to school.

And there's just kids that sat on another table.

So, you know, we wouldn't have definitely met at school.

No, it was very true.

But what was really interesting is

my show wasn't the first podcast Carl had been on.

It hadn't been on loads, but he hadn't been on many.

But whenever Carl and I got together, we just had loads of fucking views.

However we were doing it, whether it was...

I mean, I like Carl because he'll say what needs to be said,

and he won't hold anything back.

And so he was a fit for my show.

The Carl world isn't really a disrupters theme, but Carl made it work.

And of every other podcast Carl had been on, ours had the most views by a long way.

And so then we did it again.

And he did it again.

And the clips, some of the clips were getting millions of views.

There was something there.

And yeah, I just thought, I just had an idea.

One night, randomly, cars and money.

There's loads of car shows.

There's loads of business shows.

There's not a cars and money.

And like, what the fuck else does a guy want?

Cars, money, and women, maybe?

I'm not allowed to talk about it.

No, and it's a bit of a long title.

It probably wouldn't work.

But I just felt like it was quite a unique episode.

And even though Carl said, maybe we'll test a few,

he immediately got the concept.

He was like, yeah, I like that.

And yeah, I suppose, what I like about Carl from a content point of view

is he's a great storyteller because one, he's been doing it forever.

So he's got the stories.

You have to have the stories.

And two, he's great at telling them, not in a polished way,

which is great about him.

And two, there's nothing he won't say.

And too many people won't say anything.

And what's the fucking point?

I'm going on a podcast.

I can't say that.

Can't say that.

Won't say that.

What's the point?

People want to hear, you asked a question,

they want to hear the truth.

You know, a good podcast host asks questions

that people want to know the answer to.

And giving a sort of a neither here nor there answer to a question

sort of defeats the object.

It's almost like, why are you here?

Why am I interviewing you?

Why are you here?

Okay, you're somebody, you've got some stories,

but you won't tell us any.

I mean, you must find that all the time.

My big ones I find it with, and I don't know if you have the same thing,

is if there's a book related to it, it means there's press,

there's PR, there's constraint straight away,

and also F1, F1 drivers, F1 teams, communications,

if someone probably got stuck in their contract.

Still in a role in F1, it's like interviewing a rock sometimes,

like there's absolutely nothing I can squeeze out of this stone.

So I totally get why it works,

but to understand a little bit more about you two

and your chemistry together, it's what I love to do.

We mentioned that you probably, you probably were at school

and you had a very different upbringing to most

in the sense of this was your school and you've loved it.

I don't know that backstory, but you, Rob,

how different was your upbringing to say Carl?

One more thing about Carl,

because I want to get this thing because it's really important.

Carl is completely independent, and Tom is completely independent,

and Tom Hartley, Carl's are completely independent.

So you're not any manufacturer as bitch.

No, that's really important.

I have looked personal loyalties to a brand because I like them,

but if they do something even a brand that I like,

if they do something that I don't agree with,

I'll say it because I'm not going to lose my job tomorrow.

And I'm in the trenches of the car business.

So if someone doesn't know what's going on, I know.

So I think that helps the fact that people who know me know me,

and I don't change if I'm on camera or off camera.

I don't speak with a different accent if I'm on camera.

I am who I am. I say what I feel needs to be said.

And like I say, there's no repercussions on that.

I haven't got any tie to any brand or any manufacturer that I think,

well, they made a shit car, but they're buttering my bread,

so I've got to still be nice.

You know, it is what it is.

That world is changing very quickly.

But you, did you have any constraints growing up?

What was your, what did it look like for you?

I mean, I don't know how. Do you want all my fucking trauma?

This is cool.

Well, I mean, we're in.

There's alcohol over there.

And a tissue. Has anyone got any tissues?

I want to know about you.

Yeah. Okay.

So I did really well at school because

I was embarrassed and ashamed to fail

because I was the fattest kid in my year.

And the thing is, if you're the second fattest kid,

you can also take the piss out of the fattest kid.

So you're all right.

But if you're the fattest kid, you're the butt of everything.

And for three years straight, I was the butt of everything.

And I fucking hated it.

And my parents sent me boarding and I fucking hated it.

And I pleaded with them to let me come home.

And I pleaded with my dad to let me get out of the school.

What age were you at this point?

Like right at the time, you know, when you're getting into girls and things.

So what, 11, 12, 13, sort of 14.

So it was like real, for me, it was just like so emotional.

So because of that, I got really good at sport.

I worked really hard, you know, with my exams

to just try and fit in and have people accept me.

So aced all my GCSEs, was the captain of the rugby team,

pretty much top in pretty much everything I did.

But not because I liked it or I was naturally good at it,

but because it was the only way for me to get accepted.

So anyway, that was really good because I started in business age 26.

So about 40 years older than when Carl started.

Wow, a year younger than when I am now.

Yeah. So I started, that's actually really early

because the average person starts at 45.

But compared to you two, I was probably old.

But I had all of that physical drive to go and prove to people

that I've got something about me.

When was the first year you stopped looking at yourself negatively?

And then you started patting yourself.

Well, you say that, you say that at the start of the podcast.

You were very proud to talk about the figures that you guys have achieved

and clearly have a sense of pride when you achieve what you want to achieve.

So in those earliest years, yeah, but that's the best part just to piss you off.

Which I know because I know what kind of characters I can opposite me.

Because I knew about your podcast before we did this

and you've done a really good job and you've fully invested.

So I'm friends with people like Simon Squibb and Steven Bartler

and they fully invested.

You went all in.

You've got two vans who spent big money and I really respect that.

But no, it's like Carl and I have this chat regularly

because like Carl's not the sort of person that goes,

oh yeah, well done.

This is great, you know, love in life.

It's like Carl's the older car has got to sell the next one.

Success lasts for one second in my life.

Literally, that's it.

It's one second.

And so for me, it's like, I have nowhere near finished.

I've been doing it 20 years.

I feel like, okay, now I've built a bit of knowledge.

Now we're just starting up.

No, I never, ever think, yeah, you know, I've done good.

But growing up, you were quite self-extremely

by the sounds of it, self-terrogatory towards yourself.

You didn't like big answer.

I hate myself in a way.

When did you change?

What was the year that you changed?

That you lost the weight.

Oh, that was, you see, I managed to black my mum

who blacked my dad to let me get out of the school

between junior and senior.

And so I had this plan, like there's nine weeks of holiday

in a private school.

And I'm going to lose all my weight in nine weeks.

And at that point, Diet Coke had just come out.

And I just assumed you drink Diet Coke and you lose the weight.

Because yeah, he's actually, you drink it, you lose weight.

Obviously, slight misleading marketing, but it actually worked.

I lost three stone in nine weeks and I went from fat to skinny.

And no one took the piss out of me.

Girls like me.

I got the hottest girl in the year.

First go, Bosch.

Good lad.

Yeah.

And but still inside all the needing to be noticed.

If someone is raised with love, I was raised with love

by my mum, but fucking hell, my dad, he was hard.

Why, was he an entrepreneur?

No, he just had a load of, well, yeah, he sort of was.

But he just, my dad's now what, 81?

His dad must have been some kind of brutal bastard.

And yeah, his form of love wasn't son.

I love you.

It was get the fuck up and get the fuck on.

So you've got that father figure and then you've got,

you're trying to get in with all the groups in school.

And the growth of the benefit of me being the fat kid was,

like all the guys that like rock I got in with,

the girls I got on with I played the friend card

because obviously it weren't going to.

And I managed to get in with all the groups.

And what I realized afterwards is I lost all the weight,

who I am and the emotions is still there.

And there's still, there was still quite a lot of self loathing.

But I was fucking really good at getting in with everyone.

And I was good at conflict avoiding and people pleasing

and managing all that because that's what I had to do to get by.

So they're all really good things.

But I don't hate myself anymore.

But no, there's definitely a part of me where just like,

you've got to do better.

Did you know what you wanted to do in your late teens?

Yeah. And it usually involved women and alcohol.

What else is there when you're 19?

Well, I think quite what else is there anyway.

I didn't know what I wanted to do until I was nearly 27.

Which is quite, I think that's quite a thing because me and you,

we scroll our phones all the time.

Cars and social media feed dominating with you is probably way more of a mixture

because there's so many property stuff and all sorts of bits

where you're doing your house up at the minute.

There's probably more of that in there.

But the point I'm making is the amount of sub 20-year-olds

that would have come through your doors to buy a car

makes a lot of people in their mid 20s, early 20s, whatever

feel that sense of, I need to be doing this now.

It's all over by the time I'm 30.

If I haven't tried, that's a good thing to feel.

Yeah. But you're not too old.

So at 19, what did you want to do work life-wise?

And how did you feel?

Never fucking clue.

I was at university doing architecture.

I had no interest in architecture.

I went there as fucking hammered freshers week.

I don't even think I slept.

And then I'm like, this is a load of shit.

What am I doing here?

But because I did not want to fail in front of people

because I wanted to keep proving to people, I stuck it out

and I wouldn't quit.

And that reminds me when Carl mentioned,

I like will give it 10 episodes.

I was never going to give Carl some money, 10 episodes.

We're in, we're doing it.

And when it gets hard, we get better.

And I suppose that came from my childhood.

It's quite funny though.

I hear you when you guys talk, you do it sometimes quite a bit.

You refer to Carl as, yeah, but I've got another 10 years on you

and turn and look at him.

But really, what I'm getting at is you started trading

from the age of 12 or 13.

You started changing from the age of 12 and 13.

By the time you were 19, you were already in the trenches

as you describe it.

So my point is, I actually think collectively,

you've had a similar level of exposure to deals and business

in the same amount of years, if you know what I mean,

because of that.

So for you, when did it change from freshers and partying and fun?

Did you ever get a sense of, right, I've got to get on now?

Which year was that for you?

December the 15th, 2005.

I used to work in my dad's pub.

I was...

Tell me, that's pretty accurate.

Yeah.

You know, for the day.

Yeah, because my dad had a massive, massive,

nervous breakdown in his pub in front of all of his customers

on his fucking birthday.

So I said, oh, I will never forget it.

Oh, well.

Yeah.

And it was brutal because he just had a full meltdown

and he didn't know what he was doing

and no one knew what he was doing.

And it was public in front of all of his customers in his pub.

And I was working there,

but my dad knew I didn't want to be there.

And I knew my dad knew I didn't want to be there.

And my dad was just sort of trying to look after his son

until his son finally finds what he wants to fucking do in his life.

When's he going to pull his finger out?

And I carried all that guilt working for him,

which is different with Carl.

Because obviously Carl, from a young age,

brought value.

I was just working in the pub pulling pints.

And it was just a stopgap until I found out what I wanted to do.

And I didn't know what I wanted to do.

And then when I saw that happen with my dad

and I saw the police come and beat him up in front of me

and my mum and my sister on the front lawn

and arrest him and section him, I was like, I have failed him.

He helped me with my first car.

He helped me with my first house.

He put me through private school.

And that was hard for him to afford that.

And I just felt like I'd let him down.

So within a week, I'd got my ass to some property event,

even though I was broke and I didn't even know why I was there.

And on that, at that event, I met my business partner.

And we're not far off 500 units now in our property portfolio.

And I got a lot to be grateful for in a lot of ways,

because maybe I'd be fucking 47 and still working in my dad's pub

if I had to pull my finger out.

But it's just a bit sad that it was because that thing had to happen with my dad.

I find with the people I interview,

that a lot of the more academically people earlier on,

people that did very well at school, people that had very good grades,

may have been so locked in and so focused on numbers and targets and this and that,

that they don't necessarily, for a while, until they have a life changing event,

see the bit on top, that there's something else,

there's a space to operate in outside of,

I'm going to go get a really good career as a lawyer or a surgeon or a doxxus.

Typically, when you go down the route of what you did growing up,

I feel like you need that life changing explosive moment

to just take a bit off and be like,

I've still got all of this education mindset way of thinking at my disposal,

but fuck it. And that sounds like your fuck it moment to me.

Yeah, all the intellectual stuff I did, it didn't really help.

It was the graft and the desire to prove myself.

So I think a lot of intellectual people really struggle,

because they're too smart and they overthink everything,

instead of just going to fucking doing it and making a few mistakes.

But I'm scared of doing it.

Yeah.

I mean, it's fear that holds anybody back from taking a leap.

And I've said this loads of times and Rob's seen it happen and I say it again now,

I literally flip a coin on something every single day,

whether it's something personal in my life or in business or a deal.

Fuck it, make a decision, flip a coin, commit to it.

Are you going to do it or are you not going to do it?

Because if you're not going to do it, then shut up.

If you are going to do it, then fucking shut up and do it.

And people hesitate and they wait options up and I mean,

yes, you should think about what you do.

But at the same time, you've got two decisions.

You're either leap or you don't.

Do you find it extremely challenging employing people?

Yeah, very.

And he laughs because I always bent to him all the time.

And yeah, I find it hard because I expect a lot from people.

And my dad's had this conversation with me before because I stress out over it.

Because we haven't got a massive staff.

A company outside should have three times as many staff as we have.

We've got a small, you know, we're running lean, but I like it that way.

And there's less people standing around with the finger up their ass doing fuck all basically

in that case.

But you can't expect people, he said this to me recently,

you can't expect people to finish work and care.

They don't care.

Whoever it may be who you employ, they come to work,

they do a good job and they leave.

And that's absolutely fine because that's the way they want to live their life.

Is that the bit that you've struggled to accept?

100%.

100%. I'm 24 seven.

If I need to speak to somebody, it could be over something miniscule or something important.

And it's 10 o'clock at night and I call them and they don't answer.

I mean, they shouldn't answer because they finished work five hours ago.

You know, they're offline at the minute.

And, you know, it bugs me.

I'll flip out over it just I can't I need to know if that's happened today.

I need to know where this is.

I need to know what's what that means or where that money's come from or where that money's gone.

And no one's no one's answering their phone.

You know, so yeah.

Can you believe after what feels like such a long winter that it is 32 degrees outside of this van?

And for once, I'm not wearing a hoodie because you normally see me sat here in a hero hoodie.

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In fact, a minute ago, I actually put a red one on,

but I decreased it up in my bag.

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It is simply the best clothing I've ever worn.

It's not just the clothing buying into a brand and wearing a brand.

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You want to feel the brand and know what they're about.

And the guys at here just get it.

They've absolutely taken the car community by storm.

You see many of the top creators wearing it before they've even got official partnerships

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It's comfortable whether I'm in a hoodie, as I said,

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Hero clothing keeps me comfortable.

I love being able to be dynamic and go from a professional work meeting

that I have to sit down and discuss something important

to sat in the back of the van having a conversation with a friend or one of my guests.

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go and check out their current range on their store.

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There's no one else that I'd want.

Well, if I had to choose one or the other

that I thought was a slightly more thought-out with decision-making,

slightly less snappy, I would go towards you.

And I've lined that up because I'd say,

have you learned anything from Rob

that's significantly impacted the way that you do business in vice versa?

The only person that I've learned from,

or I've only really learned from two people in my life,

and it was kind of like being a young footballer

and having Messi and Ronaldo in the same football team.

And you get to play with them and see what they do.

And that was my dad and my brother.

And I was chucked in the deep end at a very young age.

And they were the bar.

So if my dad bought two cars today and sold one,

and my brother sold two and bought one,

and they'd look at me like, how many are you done today?

And I'd be very young.

But that gave you the bar of where you need to be competing at.

And it's hard for me to learn anything from anybody else

because in my sector, in my business, we're the top of the tree.

So I go to work with Yoda every day, basically.

And I do make rush decisions, either a yes or a no.

And Rob is more calculated.

So I don't know if it's whether I'm getting a bit older.

And I realize, actually, probably I should just

stand back for maybe two seconds this time

before I make a decision.

But we get on really well.

We're, like I say, we're absolutely chalk and cheese.

But I think that works really well.

And you need someone like that to bounce off of, you know?

Did you ever have a really difficult moment growing up?

Despite the praise and pride you have for your dad,

what was the toughest bit to get over

when we're building a relationship together?

It was weird because I started in business with him

before I knew how to spell Monday or the day of the week.

So I was a child when I started business.

So there wasn't like a click moment

where it was like, right, this is going to change my life now.

It was just, I was just thrown in the deep end at my own peril

and given freedom to fuck up.

If you fuck up, well, you don't have to deal with it.

No one was stopping me from fucking up,

even though he would have been 25 years older than me.

He would sit back and think, I know he would have thought,

he's gonna fuck up here.

This is wrong. You shouldn't be doing this.

You still let me do it because that's the only way

that I'm not going to do it again.

Which surprises me a little bit about your dad,

because the times I've met your dad, he's so on it

and wants everything to be so perfect.

Yeah.

And we noticed a similarity when we were setting up.

Me and Rob were over there on the bar

and you were the one in the van checking the camera angles

that you had all the right cause.

The only other person I've seen in 142 episodes do that

is your dad.

So you've got those similarities in the way.

I'm amazed.

I know we're both control freaks.

Absolutely.

My point is, in letting you get something wrong,

it almost amazes me how well your dad must have known

that was the right decision.

Because it would have been so difficult.

Yeah.

The right decision for him was to let me get it wrong.

You know, because otherwise you just depend

on someone's opinion or their say.

Forever.

Because you never had to make your own decision.

One thing I'd love to know about you, obviously with you,

everything, you think of car light, you think of selling a car,

you know, straight away.

If you think, you probably think of property straight away,

but then you go, oh, and that, and he's done that bit

and that bit, predominantly property.

But what have you done since that, those mid 20 years,

around property to list off some things of other businesses

and types of things you've been involved with?

Yes.

I have a business partner and 20 years we've been together.

And we mostly buy in Peterborough.

And we started buying little two and three bed houses.

He started a couple of years before me.

And then we upgraded to multi-lets.

And then we bought our first pub and converted it.

And then 56 years ago, we did our first 100 apartment

development, which turns out a lot of money.

And we just keep moving up and we own a decent amount

of the high street in Peterborough and quite a lot

of property there.

So that was kind of like the breakthrough business for me

that made me think, you know, I think I can fucking do this.

Two years in, we started sourcing deals for other people.

We built a pretty good business around that,

but we didn't find it scalable because we were too

relying on banks and mortgage products and then being able

to get the right finance deal.

And it was, it slowed it down.

So we wound that down.

We've never borrowed any money off.

We've never had any private investors put money in with

we sell finance pretty much everything.

We had a few JV partners, obviously we've got banks.

And then I saw an opportunity probably three years in

where people were really interested in our story

because we were quite young then in the property game

as well.

People are kind of older.

So we were young even though, you know, we were

approaching 30, everyone else were 50.

So I saw an opportunity to be like, let's write some a book.

Let's run a course.

Let's teach people.

And we've done well in excess of 200 million just

in that business.

So that grew.

I broke the world record for the longest speech

and then I broke it again.

I think I've written 19, maybe 20, but I saw the cars

and money episodes are three hours longer than that.

Yeah, obviously.

I've never read out things to say, do we?

No, but like, if you're going to do it, fucking do it.

I don't see the point of a 20 minute podcast

unless, okay, maybe if the algorithm forces it.

But I have my set of questions and I know what I want to get

out of it.

If you're going to do something, fucking do it.

Like, don't fuck about what I'm getting at with the

business question and trying to figure out your picture

is I can see you being some and some.

Oh yeah, I'll have a go at that.

Yep, we'll do the courses.

Yep, the podcast growing.

Yep, we need to move and do that.

Yep, we need to pivot and do that.

Yep, we need to do that.

Well, for you, what is just keep plowing online.

You're always there.

No one's getting rid of you in your market.

Has it been difficult for you to turn offers down from people

you do business with to go into business on this

or go into business on that?

It's not been difficult.

The offers have been there many, many, many times.

I was going to say, they must have been.

I can imagine selling a car to someone with a car storage

facility and I'm saying, why don't we do a barn together?

Why don't we do this together?

It's weekly.

Is it always a no?

Yeah.

Why?

Because if I was going to do it, I'd do it myself

and I'd take my only partner with me, which was me dad.

I don't want another partner.

I don't want to be involved in somebody else's business.

If it's a great idea, if someone comes to me

and pitches me a great idea and I think,

that is a good idea, that's going to earn some money.

Then I should do it myself.

Reese's knows a thing or two about great combinations.

Chocolate and peanut butter, obviously,

but there's more than one way to Reese's.

From indulgent Reese's big cups with caramel

to crunchy Reese's pieces and Reese's miniatures,

there's a delicious Reese's for every mood.

It's the same combo you love, just with more ways to enjoy it.

So whether you're snacking, sharing, or just treating yourself,

nothing else is Reese's.

I'm going to use cars and money on his own for the end of the day.

I get it all the time and buying and selling cars,

there's always new challenges.

At the end of the day, your biggest challenge

is to better last month's profit margin.

That's your challenge every single month or every single week.

You want to hit to a point where the most expensive car

I sold is XYZ.

Like this year, I want to better that.

Or there's always other goals, things,

but it's so full-on that you don't get chance to stand back and go,

right, I need a new goal.

I don't know what my goal is.

Does your brother also help you set new goals?

My brother is someone I look up to, I've always looked up to him.

Not necessarily set new goals, because although our businesses are the same

in the way of we both buy and sell, luxury, high performance,

super cars, hyper cars, classic cars, it's very different.

It's a very different market.

Selling a ex-Nicky Lauda 1976 Monaco winning Formula One car

is not my market, because I don't know enough about that product in order to do so.

But you mentioned growing up, you had that thing of,

oh, well, he sold four and I've sold five.

Do you still have it, being honest, where you see the big magazine spread

of 20 McLarens in the background on the bar in Reish and go,

you bastard, I'm going to get fortunate when I'm there.

Oh, 700%? Yeah, 100%. But you know what?

It's good that he's my brother, because if I wasn't doing that,

the only other person I would want doing that is him.

So I'm absolutely over the moon for anything,

and he accolades it come his way, because he deserves it.

But if there was anybody else in my market,

then I would still have that drive and competitiveness to think,

take my hat off, congratulations.

I'm going to do you, I'm going to go again.

And that's great.

Competition in any walk of life is great.

Usain Bolt wouldn't have ran a 932 or whatever it was.

If there wasn't someone behind him running a 935,

you don't know how fast you can run and how high you can jump unless you need to.

Well, Messi and Ronaldo credit each other.

Klopp and Guardiola credit each other.

Yeah, you need some, like, this is what's kind of gone along with the country a bit,

with the kind of the socialism.

It's like, oh, your kid was fifth, he gets the same recognition as the kid that was first.

Oh, no, that's wrong.

That's not teaching them anything.

Isn't that socialism?

That's not teaching them to win.

Not everyone can win.

But in order to know what your best is,

you need to be pushed as far as you can be pushed.

Otherwise, what you're going to do, just do everything mediocre,

because I'm going to get an award anyway.

I'm going to get a ribbon or a trophy.

I come seventh.

Okay, there was only seven people in it.

I still got a trophy.

In both hotel bollocks, in both your respective industries,

taking family out of it as well,

who has pushed you the most as a competitor in the market?

Irrelevant.

Myself would be my answer to mine too.

You have no crossover with Samuel Leeds?

No.

No, it's different.

It's completely different,

because we've been doing it a lot longer.

I've got my own things to focus on.

We have cars and money.

I had disruptors.

We've got our property portfolio.

We have our business training company to do a lot more things.

I sniff around occasionally if I see someone do something.

The only time is like,

if I see something do something, I'll go,

fuck, I'd have liked to have done that.

Then I'll look into it.

But here's the thing.

Having competitors is great to keep you going,

but get your fucking own house in order first.

I'll look at a competitor if everything I've done

is at the apex of what it could be,

and I'm smashing everything.

Yeah, it's your first competitor's year.

I've got plenty of things I need to improve in my own business.

I have 100-odd staff.

There's lots of challenges internally as well as externally.

There's always algorithm changes

with content that you're trying to figure out.

The world is changing with AI.

We had that conversation before

on trying to figure out how that's in.

So if I'm looking over there,

a competitor obsessing over then,

well, I'm just getting distracted

from what I actually should do.

Respectator.

Yeah.

For you, what I'm getting at here,

I can't wait for your answer for this genuinely.

Toto Wolf, Christian Horner, pushed each other for years

in Formula One, and despite the fact

that half of Toto's going to be like,

right, let's go, and Mercedes are back on top,

I still heard that text message that he sent to Horner,

like, thank you for all these years knocking horns together,

despite the fact that they absolutely hated each other

at the same time.

But they would have respected each other.

Okay.

So for you, is there anyone similar in the market whatsoever

that you have anything close to that relationship with?

So I respect mostly everybody in the business

if they do the job right.

And if they don't, I call them out over it.

I'll call them out to their face over it

because you're putting a bad name on our industry.

Someone has a bad experience with a super car dealer.

They think, oh, I'm just going to go back to a main dealer

because I don't like dealing with independence

because I had a bad experience.

So it's not fair to tar everyone with the same brush.

You want me to name names, which I'm happy to do.

I have a great relationship with Romans.

I respect the family, the Jack and Ellie family,

and they do a good job.

And we do business together sometimes.

And we both, I'm pretty sure they're not looking at our stock

or our social media going, oh my God, I don't believe this.

You know, what are we doing?

They're just doing their own thing.

We're doing our own thing.

And is there ever a customer you wouldn't pick off somebody else?

Well, that's like saying,

well, I think a customer makes the first initial move.

You know, if I don't sell them a car,

they're going to buy a car from another dealer.

They're not just saying, I'm just going to buy a car off car.

So no, I mean, you know, it's all fair game.

It's not like a business, is it?

No, but there's ways of going around it.

If I know, I mean, in this pocket of small,

very well-respected dealers, and they are small, by the way,

you know, we've all got our own loyal customers.

And I see maybe one of Romans' or my brother's loyal customers,

I would never approach that person directly.

There is no way would I go to that person and go, hey, by the way,

That's what I was getting at.

I heard you talking to Tom Jackinelli about an Enzo.

You know, I've got an Enzo.

I would go over to one of the Jackinellis and say, hey,

if you can't get him an Enzo, I've got one.

We can both earn, we can both work together,

because it's respectful.

That's the correct way to do business.

But there is other people that do try and backdoor people,

but the customer's not stupid.

But surely our customer in your industry doesn't just buy off you.

Of course.

Some of them are just going to want to get the best car, aren't they?

Of course, yes.

So it's, you know, it's a case of as long as the customer's happy

and they get a good price on the car.

If I've got a car and one of my competitors have got a car

and a mutual customer buys their car,

then they just probably got a better deal or it's suited them better.

Or there was a reason they're done.

It's no hard feelings.

I'll sell mine to someone else.

It is what it is.

It's not the end of the world.

Is that one of those important lessons that your dad just let you get on with growing up?

What? Learning to do the business with the other client,

rather than go beyond the client's back.

I think it's more part of learning now to be a man

and do things correctly and having some self respect

and having respect for others.

More though, more so being in business.

It's the correct way to conduct yourself.

If I know that you buy 25 cars a year off my brother

and you've never bought one off me,

do you think if I approached you just out the blue,

then you're going to go, oh, okay, I want to start dealing with you?

It's common sense.

It's like, no, you wouldn't go and knock on a man's door

to try and have an affair with his wife.

But if she come to you and you were single,

do you know what I mean?

She's made the first move.

That's just the way of doing things, yeah.

You speak so highly about different individuals of your life

that when you were growing up, younger had an immense impact on you.

They're different.

You mean two?

Two.

Yeah.

It is two.

Yeah.

That had that real impact on you and you looked up to,

so, right, this is where I'm going.

This is what I'm loaning for.

For you, I've heard the story you've told about your dad,

and there's clearly respect there,

but there's also kind of just visibility of watching there.

Like, maybe I'm not going to make some of those choices.

I don't want to be the one having that breakdown one day within my walls.

For you, did you have anybody that kind of helped your mind

pave the way to get where you wanted to be?

Yes, I'm a bit different to Carl in this respect

that I try and always have the radar on and see if I can learn from everyone.

So, I'm not just here being interviewed on your show.

I'm figuring out what can we learn,

because you've been doing it a bit longer, that might help us.

Because I guess my industry's a little bit more broad.

My dad definitely looked up to him so hard, still do.

He's not very well at the moment.

He's 81, so I'm grateful for every day he's still around.

My business partner, huge.

In a way, my business partners like Carl,

but in a completely different way.

The way I see Carl is Carl knows who he is,

and he knows what he does, and he knows what he's good at,

and that's what it is.

I like that about people.

I like that about Carl.

My business partner's the same in a very different way.

He taught me how to manage money.

He taught me how to invest.

He taught me how to do things carefully, and accurately,

and quietly, and discreetly.

And these are not my learned characteristics.

They're not even really in my nature.

And sometimes that can create some conflict,

because we're different.

But yeah, for anyone who doesn't know his name,

he's Mark Homer.

He doesn't want to be out in the public.

But yeah, he's taught me loads.

Yeah, if you ever ask Mark about investing,

he's always thinking,

what's the 40-year implication of this decision right now?

And it's only really people like Warren Buffett

that think like that.

And what's the 40-year implication

of making an investment?

Or a cost.

10 grand you lose now.

It's not 10 grand.

It's 10 grand at 8% over 40 years.

It's a fucking lot of money.

And he, because I just used to spunk money everywhere.

I didn't know how to handle it.

So yeah, he's taught me so much.

What's the age difference between you and your business partner?

Like one school year.

Really?

So what did you have growing up?

You didn't.

A dad who taught him all that.

My dad was slightly had loads of cash in his.

He did a deal on the intuition,

and strong, and no one fucked with my dad.

I saw my dad headbutt and break the nose of someone,

I think seventh in line to the throne in the UK.

I thought, when my dad was, yeah,

when my dad was in his 60s,

late 50s, I think,

he took over the roughest pub in Peterborough.

And it was a renowned, the roughest pub.

I mean, there was a woman that used to come in.

She had a big scar down her face and neck.

And she'd come in drinking with her boyfriend who'd done it.

And they'd send their kids out in the beer garden

for like five hours while they'd get pissed in the day.

And my dad would like, find no reason whatsoever.

You're barred.

Give me your drink, you're barred.

Get the fuck out.

And there's all these violent people in the pub,

and it's nearly 60.

Get the fuck out, you're barred.

And this one time,

some guy was fucking around at the pool table

and dad just walked up to him

and the guy snapped the pool cue

and tried to swing and my dad ducked him.

And like a sumo wrestler lifted him up

and slammed him against the sort of fireplace shelf

and the guy just wilted.

Fucking nearly 60 years old.

Like, you know, E Honda out of street fire.

That's like, oh, fuck.

So I can't remember your original question,

but yeah, it's scary fucker.

Yeah, you can't remember your original question either again.

You both spoke and I heard you speak about it before as well

about the fact that you love operating with no constraints.

You know, you don't have to bow down to Ferrari or whoever.

You can say what you think about whatever car that's coming out

when they release their new electric thing

or go and drive it, see what it's like, I imagine,

and speak your mind on it.

No constraints, you love it.

Well, if I'm fascinating with you

and knowing what I know about managing people

and the size of team that you've got,

is it's very hard for constraints not to creep in.

When you have a board, when you have a business partner

that's not necessarily as media focused as you are

or blazing in front of the camera.

Have you found it difficult to keep your control

on not having constraints while growing?

I think that's one thing I've learned is to do that.

And I think that's a valuable thing to be able to do.

You actually do it with me sometimes.

I do.

Yeah, you do it.

Yeah, did you?

And like, hopefully that'll give Carl a bit of rub off benefit.

Yeah, there he does.

Going back to your question earlier,

like that is a thing that he definitely does.

Like we'll have an idea and I'll be like, yeah.

And he'll be like, well, hang on a minute.

Let's just weigh up if that's the right person

for the right thing at the right time.

And they might be going through something at the minute

and might not want to promote you too much on the show.

And I'm like, yeah, but they've got great stories

or great cars that do this.

So what if they're paid for all their cars on drug money?

Let's get them on the show.

But no, you do, he does pull the reins in a bit.

Yeah, and also, anything that's hard is an opportunity

to be good at something that other people can't do.

So yeah, I have a board of people and I have a lot of staff.

And I've developed my ability to not act like a fucking child

and just sit back and be calm.

And I think that's good.

Your Andrew Tate Bonnie Blue interview.

Did you consult anybody before doing it?

No, no, I'm not going to be in trouble for that.

Would you?

Yeah, would you though have done it?

Would you now consult or would you be exactly the same?

His podcast is called Disruptors.

He would be an absolute hypocrite if he wasn't one himself, no?

That's why I think that you are fighting constantly

to make sure these reins, these constraints that naturally,

it's like you're swimming away from these constraints and reins.

And that for me was quite a big thing

because I know what it's like to have built a business

where you end up suddenly like,

what a flippant someone in charge of finance now,

a finance director and I've got a brand director,

what do they do?

And companies grow.

Tens of millions of pounds of mortgages with banks.

And it's so hard not to sit at the table and go,

in fact, I met somebody, I know somebody,

he's got a big, he won't mind me saying he's,

he owns the lakes by yo in Lechlade in the Cotswolds,

big development of multi-million pound house on the side of the lake.

And he borrows billions and I've, he said,

I said, where'd you go to get a billion?

Like, who'd you go to?

He's like, well, it depends what country fancies it really.

I'm like, well, this is a completely different mindset to do this.

But when you're borrowing that amount of money,

what gives you the confidence other than being a disruptor to go,

yes, this still is the right interview to do,

despite what any of the people in any of the positions

in any of those companies are going to think.

I probably didn't think about it that deeply.

And if I had, I probably wouldn't have done it.

And the thing you have to think about when you're in business with someone

is you chose to be in business with them.

You probably know who they are.

So when they revert to type an act who they are,

why are you getting pissed off?

Because you made the choice.

Now I knew Carl well before we went into the show

and I thought, okay, what's going to be good working with Carl?

What's going to be hard working with Carl?

I knew the logistics would be the hardest part.

And I thought, well, I can help with that.

And I'd take control of a lot of the logistics.

Carl does some, but you know, I plan the interviews,

I do all the questions because that's what I can bring.

So I didn't overthink at all interviewing Andrew

take the first time.

It blew the fuck up.

It did our business a lot of good and a little bit of damage.

And the the Bonnie blue thing with Andrew happens so fast.

I was and Bonnie blue was here messaging me on pitching me to get a collab.

I was like, I don't really think Andrew now was like,

I was, they wanted me to take it to him.

And they wanted me to be the interviewer.

So I didn't seek it out.

And now I was a bit, I was pushing him away a bit.

And in the end, I thought, fuck it, I'll let Andrew decide.

So I messaged Andrew.

And then something happened in the middle that I can't tell you.

But it was, you'd understand even more why I did the interview if I told you.

And for you to not say something based on everything you both said is quite a big thing.

I mean, this is all new to me.

Actually, you're becoming one of those guests who...

No, I'm not.

That's one fucking thing.

It's one thing.

He's becoming one of those guests.

I want to apologize for him.

You could apologize for yourself.

I'm not holding anything back.

So why do you choose?

What gives you a competitive advantage holding back that information?

And there's certain clients you wouldn't name if I asked you to name them.

If you asked me to name them, you'd already know their name.

But don't fob the fucking question back onto me.

I've been doing this a while.

Who are the Russian guys with this guy?

I don't even know to that day.

I wish I could tell you.

There's certain clients you wouldn't name if I asked you.

There's certain clients that...

If they asked you for discretion in a car, you wouldn't name them.

That comes 100%.

So whilst the discretion wasn't asked for, I don't have the permission to give you the piece of

information. But if someone thinks other than the wild virality and not including any sexual

experiences, what benefit might Rob more get from doing that?

They might be able to put two and two together.

I don't know.

Yeah.

As an interviewer, I'd love to ask you about actually interviewing Andrew.

Because I think there's a few people on earth and the way that I describe them as an interviewer

myself is no matter who you put in front of them, they just are going to win that conversation.

Long term.

No, I think I'm one of the living people that gave Andrew what...

No, I agree.

Yeah.

And I agree.

I'm not saying that.

What I'm saying is Donald Trump, Piers Morgan to a degree, although I've seen Donald Trump

and...

Great.

HS TikTok, he just really...

I've seen him get broken in his techniques and like, damn it.

I'm losing this conversation.

Is he the hardest person, so I was going with it, that you've ever had to constrain in an interview?

Not at all.

I really enjoyed interviewing Andrew as an objective, singular activity.

I loved interviewing Andrew.

He's really good at knowing what to say and he's good at...

You feel like he's said openly and honestly, but he's maneuvering.

I'm good at spotting now, I think.

In the Bonnie Blue interview, you can see I'm challenging him a lot and he's trying to

paint back me into a corner and it's smart, but he wasn't able to do it.

No, it's not hard to interview at all.

I mean, if you're...

I don't know, I suppose if you're an experienced maybe, but like the worst kind...

The hardest kind of person to interview is someone who's got a contract with the BBC

and they just can't say A, B and C.

And they're like, why are they fucking coming on a podcast then?

And like Carl said, the show is called Disruptors.

So it was always on brand to do things that pissed people off, including occasionally my

business partner, but I've ended the show now after 10 odd years.

It's a moment in time and it's time to do other things.

Five years in, did you ever think it would come to an end or did you say...

It hasn't come for an end though, is it, in a way?

Because you've just fulfilled the time with changing the brand and adapting the time you

spend podcasting, essentially.

Well, no, I mean, cars are money.

Something completely different to what Disruptors...

I know it is, but you still spend the same amount of time probably podcasting in your life

and that's what you also get pleasure from, asking your questions and questioning people

and being involved and meeting people and you've replaced that time and that mentally enjoyable

thing with now another version of that mentally enjoyable thing.

Maybe.

I mean, at the moment, cars and money is significantly more enjoyable than towards

the end of Disruptors was.

We're fresh, we're new, there's loads more people we can get.

10 odd years of Disruptors, the algorithm forcing you down a road, because it was

broad, the algorithm won't force us down a road, we might have to evolve and once the

new shine has gone off the algorithm might be not recommending us as much, I know that.

But we can kind of interview who we want.

It's just a question of if we agree.

I normally, if Carl goes, no, I don't want him, I usually step down because Carl knows

the car industry better than me.

After a while, I'll know it as well as him in terms of who we can interview.

It doesn't take quite as much time because it was a grind getting guests on Disruptors

towards the end.

Did you ever see, it's one of the funniest things I've ever watched in my life,

the Chris Eubank interview that he done on Disruptors.

My gosh, you've just got to go watch it.

You just got to go watch Chris Eubank on Disruptors.

I've never seen a funnier, more awkward interview in my life.

It's his face, because now I obviously know him at the time when I've seen it,

didn't even know Rob, it was before we even started doing it.

And now I know him, I look at his face, I know what he's thinking.

And half the time he's trying not to laugh.

The other half of the time he's thinking, am I fucking safe here or what?

Like, is this fellow going to flip out?

You do get that.

You know, we've got him on the table for cars and money if we want.

He's got no cars.

I don't know if he's got any money.

I mean, come on, you know, Connor Bend does, doesn't he?

Because I'm an inventor, I do business with Connor.

I know Connor personally, he's...

Yeah, I know Connor.

He's had a lot of stick recently, and I'm a big boxing fan, massive boxing fan.

A lot of my friends are current or past world champions.

And he didn't make the wrong choice in jumping ship from match room, in my opinion.

He just probably went around it the wrong way,

or a different way to what I would have went around it, or others would have went around it.

But, you know, he's a great character.

But, you know, you get athletes.

But then he's a boxer.

Well, you could talk about boxing.

It's like when you're a business partner.

It's the same thing, isn't it?

So he's a boxer.

So that's how he's going to be.

That's what he's going to do.

Yeah, you've got to know the animal that you're dealing with.

There's another side to this.

I know Barry well, love Barry.

Really love him.

I think he's a great father figure mentor.

But, you know, if you had Connor and you lost him,

surely you've got to blame yourself, haven't you?

A hundred percent.

And I think from what I do, they took it for granted.

This is something I try not to do.

Never take it for granted that someone's always just going to be there.

And when they say, and I see it all the time in different situations,

as anyone who owns and runs their own business, you know,

you have to question people's loyalty all the time.

That always has to be in the mecky money.

People are loyal to the money, of course.

They follow the pounds.

Yeah.

Do you, I know the answer to this,

but do you trust people even less since you were 30

than what you do now?

Yeah.

And has that been chipped away for five years?

At the end of the day, people talk about trust all the time and loyalty.

It's kind of nonsense.

No one's loyal to you.

Everyone's loyal to themselves.

And so what your job is to do is to figure out how to match that.

Like if we start getting no views and Karl doesn't sell any cars,

in the end Karl's going to go,

mate, I'm not doing this anymore.

It's not working because it's not loyal to me or loyal to the show.

I mean, if we've been doing it a long time,

hopefully you've got some goodwill.

But trust is like, how does the person behave?

And they will behave like that.

And when they're put under pressure,

they'll behave like that even more.

Know the beast.

You were raised by both very tough fathers.

I was here as well.

And I grew up with, in my day,

especially when I was in my teens or early 20s,

in my day, this.

And you get this sense of, oh, it's going to be a bit easier for me.

Like because we're not in that day.

But do you think we're now in one of the toughest business climates

you've never imagined?

No.

Come on.

Well, you could easily get that impression

with the amount of stuff you post about the current state of the year behind the rest of it.

I'm posting about specific things that I think are wrong.

Yeah, and I agree with that.

But when you do that over and again constantly,

and then you normally get recommended that stuff more and like I do,

so a lot of the time I see something other than cars and money with you.

Yes.

This has got to change.

This is horrendous, which I don't disagree with.

But then to me, my view of it is that you think the world's currently shit.

But I think just, I think you come across as just that sector,

whatever sector you've got.

I might get a view.

You're talking about the high street, though, then banks are closing and blah, blah, blah.

I might get a different view of it to you, though.

It's all the content I get fed.

I think things are not harder.

They're different.

And I don't want the rhetoric out that things are harder.

They're different.

So the high street is dead and I'm buying empty properties for less than half the price

from what they were five years ago.

That's easier for me.

What do you do when the algorithm changes?

You have to be one step ahead of it.

You adapt, yeah.

Exactly.

That's it.

And that's business and that's life and that's everything.

Okay, it's like going to the gym.

I've always trained.

I've always gone to the gym.

I've always been in decent shape.

But it's harder now.

I'm 38.

So I know that I can't eat fish and chips four days a week and go out for an Indian

the other two days a week and then have a Sunday roast or Sunday.

You still drink like a 21-year-old.

Exactly.

So what I have to do is realize that as another hour in the gym that day,

then what it used to be, I could just go to the gym three days a week, drink what I want,

eat what I want, do what I want.

Everything was fine.

That's one of the few things you do prioritize time for them.

100%.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Every day.

So business isn't harder.

Life isn't harder.

I mean, imagine when our fathers were young and their fathers were absent because of world wars.

People need to galve their head that it's harder.

It's just different.

If you're a kid starting a business, you can use AI for 90% of what you do.

You don't even need staff anymore.

And having a lot of staff is challenging with recruitment fees and national insurance

and the employment law getting harder.

But the employment law getting harder just means, okay, I won't employ people or use AI

or I'll start my own business.

I've been doing this 20 years.

I've seen the cycles.

Things change.

You have to be one step ahead of the change.

For example, everyone thought that lockdown was hard.

You fucking smashed it in lockdown, didn't you?

Because you adapted.

I would love to welcome another lockdown.

I wouldn't say you're here in Pavey.

Well, when I was in Paving Slabs and Pulse and Tiles and everything, it exploded.

Our website, we had a server and we famously caught the server on fire,

which I'll never forget because of what it was like in lockdown.

And it's adapting.

And how I adapted in lockdown is I bought one of these, one of these vans, not similar,

and that was my office.

So people are not going to come to me.

So I'm going to go to them and I'd have a car trailer on the back with a car

and I'd go, I'd leave the house that day.

I'd have five customers or I think might be interested in that car.

That would normally come out of the show and we're showing it.

And I'd take it to them, go all around the country.

And I'd come back every day without that car.

You came to me.

Came to you, exactly.

So like that's, you adapt.

I'm just going to sit at my office and hope that lockdown goes away and the phone rings.

Well, a lot of people do that.

And then a socialist government reward them for it

by paying them a load of fucking benefits and everything else.

And this, that particular thing is wrong.

The world isn't fucked.

It's just socialism as a system rewards non-work and punishes work.

Now, if you're a non-worker, you love socialism.

But it rewards non-work and it punishes work.

And that's not how I was raised.

That's not how Tom raised Carl and it's not how my dad raised me.

You've clearly sold cars everywhere around the world.

I mean, that'd be quite a cool mat to put some pins in really, wouldn't it?

Yeah.

To be fair when you think about it.

What about you with property?

Have you done that outside the UK?

Not interested in doing it outside the UK.

I'm not even interested in doing it outside Peterborough.

Which is amazing.

I am not interested because.

When the general sense of the UK gives you a sense of I hate our socialist ideology currently.

But I've never complained about UK property.

In fact, if you want to buy property anywhere in the world, the UK is the best place.

You've got proven growth.

All the land and all the property in the UK in 1088 was valued about a million pounds

for some kind of tax survey.

In some parts of central London, you can get a car park in space now for a million pounds.

So, property has a thousand years of proven history.

We have the best legal system in the world.

In some countries, you build, I know a Russian chap,

he built his business up and the government just took it off them.

You hear stories in Dubai.

You build it up and they just take it off you.

And that's the way that country works and you can't stop it.

The legal system here is better than, in fact, most countries around the world have

based their legal system off the UK legal system.

And property ownership rights here, a title deed in the UK for property is the safest thing.

Banks won't lend you money for anything unless they secure it on your house

and then they'll lend you money.

So, they see it as the safest thing.

But it's also that you can't pick it up and move it.

No, you can't.

And you can't hide it.

No.

But they clearly understand that it's an appreciating asset and not a depreciating liability.

Are the right money?

Well, everything.

But then they just get independent value.

Of course, that's what I'm saying.

But if I want to borrow 500 grand off the bank,

they're not going to securitize it on one of my cars, are they?

Get me moved.

But you don't get tempted with the idea of doing something like, I know,

Simon Dernett, I mean, it's building property over in Devise.

I know, technically.

But I'm saying, have you been tempted?

No, because not tempted at all.

Because we're entrepreneurs.

We're like, car selling motorbikes.

Because he sells cars, he can sell motorbikes.

It's a different thing.

This also goes back to the question we said earlier about,

have you wanted to go diverse in different businesses?

And he hasn't, in his own mind, conquered his own business yet.

So until you get to the point where you've conquered...

Still more in Peterborough to buy.

Yes, I completed it, mate.

Which, when does that even happen?

Yeah.

Never.

You know why?

The only reason I would think someone would go to a different country,

or a different sector, or having a different village,

a different thing, is if they failed in the one they were in.

Oh, I need to try over there, because over there is shit.

Think of all these people who went to Dubai when it looked good.

And I compared Dubai, UK taxes.

I didn't say that Dubai is better in everything,

but I compared those two.

All those people went out at the wrong point

in the upward curve of the property market.

That market, if a property now is currently fucked,

half is fucked, and you went on a whim because of a few shiny lights.

Out of any business I've ever done, property is the most local.

So a property in Peterborough is different price from a property here,

which is a different price from a property where you live.

And there's a street in Peterborough where North Britain's on the one side

and South Britain's on the other side.

And you wouldn't even know the difference.

And the prices are wildly vary.

And one has good yields and one doesn't have good yields.

Whereas maybe the price of a Lamborghini Aventador S

is pretty the same in any city in the UK.

So property is a very local business.

This is something else my business partner taught me.

Property is a local business.

And you've got to tie up the solicitors, the brokers, the refurb teams.

You've got to get the deal before it goes on the market.

Like, I saw, I've seen Carl buy cars.

I learned things off Carl.

And I see him buy cars.

And he's not going to be able to haggle too much in another dealer.

But if he gets it before it gets to the dealer, I've seen him do it.

And I'm like, how'd you get that fucking cheaper?

I hope he's going to get me one right out of under.

Because you're a chauffeur amusing on it.

He knows, he knows where to get the car and when to get the car.

And I know where to get the deal and when to get the deal.

And as soon as it's in an estate agent's windows, it's fucked.

Mr.

It's 30% more.

I actually bought my house.

I've never bought a house before.

So I built a house when I was 20, 20 years old.

And then lived in it until I was 36.

And then I recently, a couple of years ago, bought a house.

But I'd never bought a house before.

And I'd done the same thing.

I'd just tread it in the way of buying a car.

And my solicitor was actually going mental.

Because what happened was I would have go view this house.

My wife isn't even in the country.

She was in Spain with the kids for the summer.

We're looking for a property.

Here are estate agents in different places.

And I just come across, I was on a conversation one day with a guy about a car.

And I liked the area that he lived in.

They said, by the way, do you know anyone in your area that wants to sell their house?

Not enough.

He said, my son's future wife's parents, so sort of he's in laws,

they're downsizing because all their kids are married and moving out now.

So the house is too big, they want to sell it.

So what Rob just said, I'm going to catch just before it goes on the market.

Because I had videos and pictures and I was like, wow, this place looks,

this is the kind of place I want to buy.

Went to go and see him that day on Friday.

On Friday, he's got a holiday home in like,

mid Wales that he goes to every weekend.

So we said, look, I haven't got a lot of time.

I'm looking around.

In my own mind, I've already bought it.

Like, I've already bought it and we haven't even discussed prices yet.

To an extent, I don't really care.

I know I will give more than market value for this house.

And I'll do it today, which is like how I buy a car.

So do you don't give more of a market value for a car?

Yeah, no, trade, trade, trade value.

I was thinking that it must have broken.

Trade value, I do.

That's why we buy so many cars.

Only the good ones worth buying that is, by the way.

Went back on the Monday, bought the house on the Monday and sent him $150,000.

Just on a handshake.

And called my solicitors on Tuesday.

And I was like, right, just bought a house this much.

This is the address.

This is the guy's name.

That's his solicitors.

Oh, by the way, I've already sent him $150,000.

They're like, what?

You can't do that.

I'm like, of course you can do that.

Like, that's how I would buy a car.

I was like, this isn't a car.

I was like, but I needed to show that some kind of commitment.

If I went, you know, these things don't happen overnight.

If I could have bought it that night and signed the deeds that night,

I'd have done it that night.

I just, the thing with property, which blows my mind in another business of my dad's property.

It frustrates me so much.

And, you know, when I was growing up, before I really got into cars,

I had two avenues that I could learn to go down.

One was a property business that my dad had had.

It wasn't the biggest, not like the cars were,

but obviously I seen the potential profits that were there.

You only needed to sell one property for 10 cars.

And then it's in the car business, but it was fast and it was instant quick

and it was meeting people and shaking hands and doing the deal and getting stories and doing this.

The property was like, oh, well, okay.

Well, sort of shake hands, but it doesn't really mean anything

because I could find out when we do checks, land registry, that there's something up,

it might not be the deal, it might not be this, then we'll take six months to complete.

And then you're in a chain with somebody, oh, it just was not for me.

That business just was not for me.

And people who make it in property, they must have so many, so much patience.

I'm hoping to have a positive influence on Carl.

And maybe over the next few years, he gets a few more properties.

Because it's a backstop against your existing business.

I won't sell him anything.

I'm just hoping to have that positive influence.

And you get rich in your business.

You get really fucking rich parking in assets like property.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

But I also look at investment cars as property.

Of course.

So I buy and sell cars daily, but something will come up and I think in the next five years,

that's going to double, maybe treble in value.

It's the price of a property.

It could be 2000000 quid.

It should be five.

I suppose that's your backflip to that question there.

Is you selling him a million pound Lambo Diablo that you say is going to go up to 2.5 instead

of buying a commercial?

Well, at the same time, I know what I know.

So it's one thing, someone with who I respect immensely, Rob going Carl, for instance,

you should buy this property, whatever it may be, block of flats.

It could be student accommodation.

It could be anything.

You should park some money in there.

Great yield does this.

Should be worth XYZ, blah, blah, blah.

But I don't thoroughly believe it because I don't know through my experience that that's

going to happen.

I respect his opinion.

But when it comes to something that I think I know that this is going to happen,

and if it fucks up, I blame myself.

So three years today, I'm not a fan of predictions, but it can be fun.

You've flipped coins for cars before.

Do you think he's going to have a block of flats?

And do you think he's going to have an investment knife or car?

Well, I'm never going to sell Carl any properties.

I don't sell anyone properties.

He doesn't sell properties?

I don't even talk to Carl about properties.

Do you think he's going to have a block of flats?

You know, play Monopoly, I want to own the whole board.

If Carl shows an interest and wants some help, I'll always be here for him.

And Carl is very successful and very wealthy and doesn't need me.

But I just know that's something I know, and my business partner knows even more,

that if Carl ever needs to call on that one day, he can.

I never sell Carl anything.

The only thing we'll sell each other is making sure that cars and money blows up.

I'm sure I'll buy a lot more cars off Carl in the future.

Rob is definitely going to get his ass into a hypercar in the next three years.

That's without question.

We did it with Mark, didn't you?

Yeah, it's 100% going to happen.

And you did with Andy, Andy bought that Bugatti on your advice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Adam Rausel, he's tuned your advice and scaled that.

Yeah.

But the thing is Rob does have a love for cars.

He loves cars.

And that's why it would be impossible for us to do our show,

and him just to be a great podcaster, but not really have any interesting cars.

Like, he loves cars.

So I've also had Rob de-scale down a lot of his cars because,

you know, some will go in anywhere.

You know, it's okay to park money there, but he obviously thinks that money's going nowhere.

That could be going up in something else.

So I think if I came to Rob and said, look, I've got a whatever it may be, a hypercar,

take my prediction.

If I was you, I'd buy this.

He's got to love the car in the first place, which he does love cars.

I definitely, I definitely see him rolling up in a P1 or something like that.

Yeah.

So that's a maybe I have a storage problem at the moment,

and we're looking for an industrial unit to adapt.

Because when you can't store them all properly, it's a fucking bore,

like moving them all around.

I know, woe me and all my cars, but it is a pain and you need them stored.

And also if you, you know, and then you don't enjoy them.

If you weren't, if they weren't, I'm just a big fan of having cars at your house.

Which is why I won.

Because when I get in and when I'm in the fucking moves,

nice to move them around for a week.

I was driving past, going towards Zach's garage once,

and I was going through a town in Surrey,

and there was just an unassuming house there next to the road, up a little drive.

And as I was driving past, a DB5 or six was being lowered down

on the driveway, sinking lift into the house.

And I was like, you would have never known that that was there.

Like he was to come across so many of them.

That's the best way.

Question for both of you.

We spoke about it when you came on before.

Difficult moments.

You keep playing through, through everything,

but you've had some difficult moments.

You've had a car crash at one point.

I've had other things go wrong.

And it's a bit of a reset at that moment.

You think, oh, what have I done differently?

When you really got motoring and you think,

I'm thinking unstoppable where I'm going.

You still feel that now.

I know you do.

But has there been like a moment,

you remember that date so well, what happened in your dad's pub?

Is there another date that you remember on your journey as being like,

Cor, that was a bit of a lesson.

I mean, I put my Ferrari 458 that I'd had for five days

through about 30 yards of bushes,

and I crashed it into news international building.

So that's something that we both have.

I had a 458 done, this is.

Did he not know that?

Not news of international building.

So you know that.

I crashed it into everything else.

Did he not know that?

I didn't know that, no.

So that's the sun, all those newspapers,

and I went straight into it through 30 yards of bushes.

And I phoned up my business partner because we share all the cars.

I'm like, Nate, I fucking crashed the car.

And he's like, oh, you know, send it down the panel.

But as it'll be all right, they'll tap it up.

And I'm like, no, see, it's worse than that.

This ain't going to apologize.

It's worse.

It's going to Matt.

Matt wasn't a thing, but I went into the building

and I pulled the facilities manager around the side

because he's got the two wings.

And he's like, fucking hell.

Within 15 minutes, the news reporters were over in our building

getting the story and the story in the Daily Mail.

And was it the Daily Mail?

It was all the newspapers anyway.

And it was quite early in the paper.

Millionaire crashes five day old Ferrari,

but it's OK because these other cars are Porsche.

And because they made me look like a complete dick.

Same.

Yeah.

And my son had had a hole in one that day, age three.

And unofficial because he didn't get it on camera,

but he's the youngest person to ever get a hole in one.

He had eight hole in ones by age seven.

And you know what you said about unstoppable?

The moment you think you're unstoppable,

you get fucking humbled.

And I was just buzzing and, you know, I went obviously,

I mean, obviously the brakes were cold.

You know, he's a problem for a car like that.

But I had brake failure.

My business partner still brings that up.

Oh, yeah.

Well, brakes fail.

It was a thing on four.

It was.

I don't know.

They said about it.

It really didn't work.

It was a thing.

But I need ten ones.

It's a five.

It was it was it.

They would a lot of fuel happened in the US.

And it was proven that it was brake failure.

And we need to do tell my business partner that

because he still takes the piss out of me now.

Honestly, I'm showing.

Yeah.

My beer.

My my wasn't breaking the speed limit, actually,

because it was it was in a, you know.

My knit crash went in a 458.

It was when I locked up in a 930 turbo

and got humbled by no anti-lock brakes.

That was and that was a humbling experience for us.

That's classic cars for you.

A Rob also had a 930 turbo.

I told you I did.

And then he gave it back to you because I didn't have I

wasn't driving it.

Yeah, they're I'll probably get another one of them.

But maybe we just maybe choose a slightly more rare or one.

Yeah, we maybe go for a 964 turbo.

You know what I mean?

I get like a three point six the bad boys car.

That's just because I had it on my wall.

Yeah.

And I've now, other than the Countache,

I've had everything that's been on my wall.

And you won't fit in a Countache.

No.

I've got one here.

You can sit in it.

I don't think you'll be comfortable.

Really.

It's hard enough getting in and out of the event at all.

We ain't going to get thrown in there, is he?

No, I don't think he can.

No.

Can I ask you a question?

Yes.

Sort of.

So certainly I knew of you before this show.

And obviously you watched my show.

And you blew Road to Success up.

And so what do you think you did well in building this show?

What worked?

This van.

The only reason that I ended up with the two vans,

one in American one now,

was because two YouTube videos played on my telly,

one after the other.

And that's what gave me the idea.

I watched an auto Alex thousand pound van challenge

and they got a real big electric cable reel that was empty

put in the back of this van.

Put a lot of mics on it and sat around and was like,

I made in my van a podcast van.

And the next video that played was when a Bartlett's

first ever podcast in his studio.

I saw the bookshelf and the lighting

and the way the background was gray

and like all those sorts of things.

And I thought, huh, I thought, well,

I've always liked talking to people.

But I haven't got no black book.

But how am I going to get these people to even agree to me?

The only real way I'm going to get them to agree to me

is if I went to them and like the two thing clicked.

It was like, well, hang on a second,

all the best podcasts.

I'm quite analytical.

I looked it was like all the biggest podcasts in the world,

Rogan Bartlett's one at the time seemed to me to have one thing

in common, which they all had the same studio environment.

I was like, okay, this solves the problem of how do I get

the same studio environment?

Because people aren't brilliant with change.

Other than the general public, the 100% of people,

especially with content,

they like tuning into something familiar.

So for me, I knew that I had to have the same studio environment,

but the only way I was going to get Carl to say yes

to coming on back in the day or whoever was,

is very two different conversations phoning up constant.

Carl, do you mind coming to my shed in my garden in Oxfordshire?

Is that going to take about an hour to have the conversation?

That's all it's going to be.

It's two hours there.

Yeah, we'll do it at some point.

It'll never happen.

You're turning up on your door and saying, I'm here.

Should we get in for the hour?

Did you ever turn up unannounced?

No, I've never done that.

I managed to get some people on the day I never expected to have

in Monterey Car Week by driving around and being like, right, come on.

Right, yeah, that is a big advantage.

But even then, you've got a van, you can go to them,

but other podcasts can go to them.

But you've got some big guests, Jay Leno, for example.

How do you get these big guests to agree to you when you're a start-up podcast?

Some of them had watched episodes,

and that was the thing that humbled me in Jay's case.

You know, I turned up slightly shaking because I had a phone call.

I was on Wednesday and as in Los Angeles recording podcasts,

it was the only day I didn't have one booked in.

And the phone rang and it said no caller ID.

And we'd reached out to his agent, got no reply two or three times,

managed to get the number from Chame's manager, no one might be saying.

Everybody kind of melts each other out with the guests and says,

I asked who to talk to.

Got nothing, we'd reached out, nothing, nothing, nothing.

Phone rings, no caller ID.

I thought, aren't I thought at the time's the lesson?

Ah, that's no good.

When's a no-quarter ID ever any good normally?

So I put the phone down.

It rang back straight away again.

I thought I was getting in the shower.

I was bollock fucking naked.

I thought I'd back you to that image, mate.

That's all right.

I picked up the phone.

Let's just shake the girls' thing.

Think of it as some sales call, man.

Oh, shit, it's Jay.

And that's what happened.

And their voice said, hey, Ben, it's Jay.

Like, I was supposed to know who that was, you know, on the phone.

I said, Jay, Jay Leno.

He's not a big fan of your show.

And I, my jaw just hit the deck.

I said, what?

So, yeah, I've watched you.

I watched you with Freddie Tavares.

She was visiting me.

I've seen your episode.

I was working under a car.

He's like, come on down.

He's like, if you're here, come on down.

He's like, I've got a bit of a busy afternoon after so and so.

Can you get here in 40 minutes?

I went, I don't even know how far away that is.

And then what happened is I slipped over

in excitement, whacked my head,

had two minutes of sorting myself out

because my head was flipping pounded,

ran down to the van, unshowered, sadly.

So Jay had a bit of a smelter in that episode,

but it was on the way there.

The van went into limp mode.

And the air hose had popped off the front

inside the engine.

I can't fix a thing.

I'm useless.

And I drove that van there at 38 mile an hour

on the freeway to Burbank

and just about made it there indeed.

I don't care what I had when you get there.

No episode prep, no nothing.

And I remember going through the doors

and then, and this is where you've got the advantage.

I mean, I've reversed the van in some places

and set up some podcast episodes,

but I had to reverse with about a meter space,

either end, between his McLaren F1 and three Muras

in a left hand drive extra long sprinter

with no reversing camera.

That was one of the most stressful experiences of my life.

So to then be able to sit down

with no episode preparation or planning whatsoever.

And I kept telling myself, I'm good.

Don't mix up The Tonight Show and The Late Late Show

and, you know, caught that he was on the wrong one

because it's so easy to do when you're in that circumstance.

And I think just the ability of going

right off we go.

It was just out of a memory.

Out of a memory.

Is that, is that, I mean, I don't know.

Is that your most viewed?

No, it didn't get, it actually didn't go as mad

as what I'd like it to be.

And sometimes the stars don't align right.

And sometimes the ones that you don't expect

to be the most viewed wires end up going mad and vice versa.

And I accidentally, through no fault of my own,

put mine live on the same day someone else put one live

with Jay in the US that had about half a million subs.

And I think the click-through rate was cut in half.

It didn't get that initial.

I've had clips, like five minute conversation clips,

go 1.2, 1.3 million views on the Stories channel

and out-earned the main episode.

But the main episode, I think it's about $273,000 or something like that.

So we've got Jay agreed.

So give us a couple of tips on what you do differently

to get your 5000000 views.

I think something that I really learned from interviewing Jay

is that when you're doing guest preparation,

especially with someone that there's so much content out about them online,

is the person that you start interviewing could be in a different place

in their life from when you saw them on an interview.

So you're expecting to run into the Jay

that maybe I'd watched host his show,

or it's running into the Jay that I'd watched on Jay Lay in his garage

with a brand new car in the building.

And he's a little bit like chipmunk cheeks.

And he's like, it looks like a great guy.

And what I ended up coming against was Jay

that was just a little bit older,

a little bit longer to reply to some of the thoughts.

Still sharp, still on it.

A Jay that was looking after his wife

that was in a different place than where she was in her life

and had to be very delicate around those questions.

So I think it was my perception of who I was interviewing

based on the content I'd consumed

was a bit different to the character that I interviewed

because he was in a different place in his life.

And it's just, it's worth always taking that, I think,

is that other side of I think they're going to be like this,

but then, you know, they're slightly different

in their way they'll answer questions or he likes to butt in.

He likes to talk over the top when you go in a question.

I didn't expect that from Jay, but it was just a fantastic interview.

He does as well.

It was a good, it was a good experience.

I loved it.

How can interviewing Jay Leno not be a good experience?

You know, it was, it was awesome.

And what do you think really works on a podcast like yours and ours

and what really doesn't work on a podcast like yours and ours?

The thing I had to get over which others don't have to get over

is everybody, obviously, when you've had a slightly,

everyone obviously says to me that I'm obviously a privileged upbringing

because I grew up with a dad that had a business,

with a dad that bought some cars, he

and we enjoyed those cars together when I was 18, 19.

So then naturally all the people around me,

all the privileged one, right?

Getting a population of young people to sit down and listen to what

they perceive to be the privileged one was probably the hardest thing

I had to overcome.

So I think that overcoming for me, which is different to maybe the position

you guys have been in business for so long and kind of earned that respect.

I think when I started, I was earning my respect still and to this day.

And there's been a lot of comments that I saw when I initially went on,

Matt Armstrong's videos, I fucking hate this guy, he's had it so easy,

he's had this, you know, nothing about me,

nothing about things that's happening in my life, losing my father,

all sorts of things like that.

Absolutely nothing, but that is the perception.

I think over time I've worked on getting more and more people to go,

oh, fair enough.

I really enjoyed that conversation or that question or that video,

whatever it was.

And I'm just looking to get them every episode to get another person to go,

oh, fair enough.

Do you obviously go through comments?

Yeah, on your episodes.

And do you look for negative comments?

Yeah.

And do they affect you?

I'm not as bad as a lot, honestly, I'm really not.

Some have in the past, some have, but nothing about,

nothing about my image affects me.

It affected me more three or four years ago.

I've got far more self-confidence and self-belief than what I did

when I started doing all of this.

So before, I'd question, oh, they might be right.

You know, and to be honest, I think one of the only,

I think the real reason that Rhodes success actually survived and got to where I got to

was the fact that in the first year, first six months,

there was loads of comments saying,

stop talking over your guests.

Shut up, like things, some of them were batterings.

But that's actually good advice.

Yeah, it was.

That's actually good advice.

It took me a little bit longer than if I went back, I'd have liked it to,

but after maybe say three months, I really started seeing it as a consistent pattern and going,

okay, Ben, I know you're just enthusiastic and you're so excited to get involved or do this,

that or the other.

My mum talks about legs off a donkey anyone that knows her or watches our vision channel.

But I just learned to go, I really want to get involved,

but just let them go, let them spit.

And that was the, I'd say that was just the biggest skill that I've learned.

And it's just that question of, should you jump in there or not really?

Have you even read the comments?

Yeah, I do.

I read all the comments.

And I mean, I think we're both very lucky.

We both get some really positive comments and obviously always get negative comments.

But honestly, I don't, I laugh at most of them, if I'm honest.

Oh, mine's usually like, oh Christ, he's got big teeth.

Or like Ben, you've put on a stone or like something like that.

And none of those bother me in the slightest.

I think none of those bother me.

Yeah, no, I just, you know, I think it feels so sorry for somebody who goes out their way

to leave a negative comment on something that they've watched.

They've wasted their time.

That's the big thing that's on me.

I love the irony of that.

Yeah.

Oh, Rob, they were shit questions that you asked.

Sometimes people say I ask shit questions.

I had a guy the other day, a kid come over to me the other day at Supercar Fest.

And you'll probably see this.

And my face changed like completely.

So we come over and Supercar Fest was such a great event.

Like it's got bigger and bigger and bigger.

And, you know, this year was the first year we had a presence there.

And it will have a presence there every year.

And it would be bigger and bigger and bigger.

Anyway, so many people come over to the stand and I was there.

It's a relaxed family event.

I've got my sons there with Mimi, dad's there.

He's there with his granddad.

Do you know what I mean?

I'm seeing customers and everyone's casually dressed.

And people are coming over and they wanted autographs and pictures and that kind of stuff.

And it's all new to me.

This is all like, all this, you know, this like, can I have a selfie with you?

It's all new to me, you know what?

It's new to me to the extent that it is.

I mean, it's like every, it's like a meet and greet outside the stand.

It was amazing.

And it was this one, I'm not going to call him a kid because I think it's disrespectful

because he was an adult.

He was over 18, but he would have been a young man.

And he said, Carl, I really like the podcast.

I think you're doing really well.

So I was, thank you very much.

Where you from?

I'm from here and from there.

What do you do?

I do this.

Okay.

I've got a couple of things that I would like to critique the podcast on, if you don't mind.

Rob, by the way, is you're in the inside of the tent at this point and you didn't seem,

but I'm trying to give you the eye because I thought, please come over here and just

deal with this Rob.

Yes.

So he said, you know, I've seen the podcast that you've done with,

I think it could have been Paul Bailey.

And he was like, your questions just weren't good enough.

You could have asked a lot better questions than that.

And your questions just weren't good enough.

The podcast goes on for too long and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, oh, okay.

Thank you very much.

It was really nice.

How was your, but then, but then he wouldn't stop.

Then he was, he may have just said, and by the way, you're short and ugly.

And by the way, he may have just said that.

Like he, he just absolutely ripped me a new one politely.

He quite literally said it's you guys.

And I thought, well, okay, wait, I see one.

Keep, keep watching them.

Yeah.

You know, big fan.

I was like, well, obviously, that's, that's sure.

This is the irony.

I get a bit of heat in the comments for not asking very good questions,

yet they watch the whole fucking show and they keep coming back.

And like, I even go in the comments and I ask them all, what should I ask instead?

And they don't, they don't give me any feedback.

So if anyone's watching, if you, if you want me to ask better questions,

give me some suggestions that I do listen.

I tell you what we should do.

We should post a snippet or a picture of whoever we're having on the show next,

for instance, say on a Sunday is being launched on a Wednesday.

What questions would you like us to ask this person?

That might help.

I am more than happy to take feedback and bring questions in

that our fans watch because then our fans are included.

This is what people don't understand.

The best question on a podcast is a quick, clean, simple one that lets them go.

And it's not about what the question is.

It's where they go.

And so I do ask fairly basic level questions and I ask about the money.

Oh, you shouldn't ask about the money.

Well, everyone wants to fucking know.

It's called cars and money.

Oh, sorry.

I'm going to talk about cars or money on this show.

That's how public perception has changed, isn't it?

Because again, on parents' day, it was a bit rude to ask someone what they

earned for a living or how much money they got.

In America, I'd say it's far beyond us now.

Oh, yeah, completely.

They just can't wait to have a tour and ask.

We're doing it.

We're doing a US tour.

Yeah.

And I can't wait to ask all those questions.

And they'll tell you.

They celebrate it.

So they should.

Good on them.

It's great.

I think to celebrate success is great.

The people should be proud of it.

Have you ever turned up and not recorded an episode?

Because it's not the right thing to do when you're there or not released it?

No.

We had to remove it.

No, we haven't even talked about that.

No, I don't know.

I'll leave it up to you.

We did remove on recently because it wasn't the right person to have at the present moment.

And the show, the episode was brilliant and it got half a million views in

15 seconds.

In no time.

Yeah.

So we've just privated that for now.

And I don't like doing that.

And then it wasn't going to look out for the best interest of the channel as well.

I've not put a few live.

I haven't put a hand full of it.

Why?

Blood out of a stone.

Oh, so just not putting enough content.

I did one that I was really excited about.

And I won't name it was, but I did it at Mercedes F1 and it was someone on their pit wall.

And I was extremely excitable to do it.

And it was just horrendous.

It was just so, so, so that I got 40 minutes in.

I said, buddy, it's a waste of time.

And I'm doing it.

Did you?

You cut it?

Yeah, I did 40 minutes in.

Nice play.

I said, there's no flow.

I said, I don't feel like we're in a flow state.

And I said, for you to be proud of this as well as me, come on, we've got to have a bit of flow state.

So I said, instead of a no, I was like, why don't we just postpone it until we've got a flow state

and put it together again in the future?

So I did that.

And there was one that I stopped.

Six or so.

Why is this a car?

There was one that I stopped for someone who is more well known, six or seven minutes things.

I thought he's really derogatory about his team and his staff.

And I said, I don't think this is going to do you any favours.

And to be honest, as someone who employs a lot of people, I don't like it.

And people be that.

Probably get fused though, no?

Do you know what?

And in hindsight, maybe that would have been the thing to do.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'd be like, you go into it afterwards and see how you get on.

But at the time, my, I suppose, principles, I didn't necessarily think about things like that.

I was actually annoyed.

I was like, I don't fucking like you.

I don't want to interview you.

But that's your interviewer, Chang.

You're the interviewer.

You are an introducer of this guest.

I've learned that now, but this has to be my 20th episode, right?

So the infancy.

Is there anybody that, if they requested to come on your show,

you just wouldn't have a month.

And then you'd tell it.

Really?

Well, I think that...

What about in the car world?

We'll come back to Andrew.

What about in the car world?

Anyone big known in the car world?

Don't think so.

If I had a suspicion that there was some really naughty business going on,

and it wasn't the thing that they claimed to do, then...

About the GED boys.

I recorded an episode with DMO and didn't put it live.

Why?

Because he asked, he said afterwards,

he rang me asking me to cut multiple segments out of it.

And I could just tell that if I'd then put it live,

I was going to get absolutely hammered.

And just...

At the time, my thinking was,

for the sake of making a few thousand pounds put in this episode live,

I'm going to upset someone that is very noisy and loud and flamboyant

in a world that I still want to interview a lot of people that he knows.

I weighed it up and I said,

is this the right episode for me to release?

And in hindsight, I wish I'd have released it.

But why that was a good question that Rob just asked you is

because you have a massive love for cars as well.

And you've got more than enough experience buying cars of various dealers.

We've done business together multiple times.

I'm sure you've done business with many other dealers.

Are there any dealers who you think, you know what,

you're a cunt, I'm not having you on the show.

Collecting cars are enough.

Ed would love it.

Really?

Why is that?

I really didn't like him.

It's from your neck of the woods, really?

Yeah.

And I grew up...

That doesn't make someone better or worse as a human.

No, but you probably knew him before.

Maybe I had his history with him.

Maybe I had a poor experience.

And I don't like talking down on people either.

It could have just been the day.

I've had loads of people that really do get on with Edward and like Edward

and speak well of him.

So it could have just been on the day.

But on that day, the truthful honest answer from me is

I really didn't enjoy the experience I had.

See, I have a more broad view in that, unless blood out of a stone,

I'd be tempted to put it on the back burner and keep it in the bank

and only release it as an emergency.

But everything else, I don't see it as me to decide.

I see it as everyone watching to decide.

They're making that perception of themselves.

Yeah.

So if I decided, if I liked it and didn't and wanted it out and not,

I'd probably get it wrong in terms of what would get a lot of views or not.

Because you wanted to go quite early on our show with Mark Bailey.

And you really bat that this is going to be great.

And Mark, no one really knows Mark Bailey outside of the car world.

And I thought, it's just not, I don't think it's going to do good enough to use.

By the way, great guide, great quality.

And that's what I've always suffered with and thought.

I thought he did very well.

You were right.

In my opinion, I mean, it was, done better than what you thought.

Maybe not as well as I thought.

It's not nearly 500,000 views.

It does pretty well.

But that's, you know, he has got absolutely no social media presence.

What's not at all, right?

Which for someone that, like you say, unless you're in this top end car world,

even then, he's still a very private person, you wouldn't know who he is.

But that, for me, to date, and that was the first one we recorded,

what the podcast means, cars and money, and people's stories,

my perception of our podcast, people's stories, their history with certain cars,

their story, that was the best episode we've done.

Well, I was, when I went to Supercar Fest, I got stopped loads.

And probably one in three people stopped me.

Oh, that Mark Bailey episode.

Oh, that Mark Bailey, I messaged him afterwards.

So it was the way I don't expect.

Yeah, that's why it did.

We were a good chemistry, me and Mark.

You have a long time.

And he's got some unique cars.

Yeah.

That's why I don't not put it out.

Because you can't be the predictor.

I'm not saying you did the right.

I quite like your principles about it.

I will also challenge it slightly and give you a scenario as to why I didn't put out.

I love to interview people we don't fucking like.

Hang on, I have fucking dreams about it.

It would be great.

This is a perspective that, again, I'd like to ask you your view on.

Because not everybody, you two, are extremely alpha male dominating.

Yeah.

Yes, you are.

Teddy bleeding out here.

But some people are very successful and not like that.

Some people are very successful.

And as I've heard you say, that would be a bit too boring to have a conversation with.

Doesn't mean for me their story isn't good enough to share.

And then I might just be getting another person of their character type listening to it as a person in my interview.

So with Edward, I really wanted to get Chris Harrison.

My podcast, I've never been able to do it.

I'd like to, but haven't made it happen.

You can pay.

And I'm aware.

But I've never, I've not made it happen, but I will one day.

I'm convinced.

But at the time he had an affiliation with collecting cards.

Yeah.

So I'm sat there doing this interview and I'm thinking during this interview,

you're making yourself look like a tit here.

Like, well, I really don't like the way you'll make yourself look.

And this is going to go out and the person who I actually really want to get on the show

is going to see how much you've made yourself look like a tit and probably be put off by coming on.

So what am I with no black book getting into the podcast in world?

I've always thought, right, how is that person that I really want?

I'm going to perceive that person's episode.

If I do an episode with Andrew Tate and Bolly Blue,

is Clarkson going to want to come on?

Or is he going to think that's a bit messy, a bit noisy for me to want to come on?

Or is the owner of JCB or Bamford, who I'd love to speak to on his journey?

Is he going to see Bonnie Blue and think,

I really don't want to be associated with a podcast that she's been on because he might

have a particular view on it.

So I've always thought in that way, whether it's right to A, release an episode based on the

conversation or B, have a guest and entertain that particular person.

And I think Andrew Tate and Bonnie Blue, that is a valid question because it definitely does

stop people and put people off.

I know, because I interviewed them on my old show.

But in the car world, I don't think it's...

I mean, look, the front of things, when we've done Tristan,

they've got an incredible collection of cars.

They've had an incredible history with cars.

If they've had a problem with a car, they will scream it at the top of Mount Everest

for everyone to listen.

If they think a car is a fantastic car, they'll do the same.

So being our podcast is revolved around cars and money,

which you'd kind of need money to buy the cars.

He was a good guest, but it wouldn't fit just because he's famous.

You'd need to have some kind of tie-in with cars and all you have to be relevant to our show.

Yeah, hypothetically, what if you have a guest that really wants to come on you think would

make an amazing show?

But the thing that they like to partial say is where the money comes from

isn't actually where the money comes from.

And the money comes from something illegal or

that the general masses might think is quite controversial.

Take for a character like DMA right now.

No one can give you a complete and utter unless you're right in the circle

and totally understand how that world works.

No one can give you a concrete, simple answer of how that man is making the level of money.

Yes, because has anyone ever asked a friend?

We should ask him.

You didn't want him on the show, did you?

That's what I tried to do.

Wasn't that I didn't want him on the show?

And he told me I didn't know what to talk about.

I've known DMA.

He actually DJed in my house for my 30th birthday party,

known to him and Yanny and Lenny for forever in a day.

But it's just who fits at the time who we were looking for guests who fits at the time.

But you've made a very good point and I know nothing about his world

and what he does.

Actually, since he moved to Dubai.

No, I still can't figure it out.

But what I'm saying is, if anyone's, if no one's ever asked him,

then how did I try to tell the truth?

I tried to ask him and he made me trim it out of the episode and said it wouldn't go live.

And I do have a rule.

I don't know if my rule is different to your rule,

but I do it out of respect to make sure that guests feel comfortable enough to open up

when they come on to my show.

I say, look, ultimately, if you send me a text,

you say you don't want that episode to go out.

It doesn't go out.

I was like, that's my agreement.

Yeah, and we do that.

And we had that with one of our guests who had a piece of content

that would have broken the fucking Internet.

And it was brilliant.

And actually, he came across really well in it,

but he asked us to take it out.

And both of us were like, that's the best fucking bit.

It's the only bit of the episode.

It's the only bit.

It was the best because here's the whole episode.

It's only worth watching for that one.

And we maintain the relationship.

We did the respect and we took it out.

So I think that's the right call.

There's no right or wrong answer to this either.

Sometimes it's like mold.

Well, there is because if you have someone on your show

who's given their time and they ask for something to be taken out

and you're like, no, that's not right.

Is it?

Yeah, that is.

But I think it's not also right sometimes if the thing

that they're asking to be taken out.

So in DMO's case, the thing that he asked to be taken out

was that one thing, the thing you're on about the fact

that you clipped out of that episode, the one thing.

Yeah.

The questions about that topic.

He said, I didn't know what I was talking about.

Ask the wrong questions, which maybe I did.

Yeah.

Got quite high rate about it.

But I said, nah, we're putting out the episode anyway.

Put it out.

I just trimmed that out.

I said, it's my guy.

I said, nah, it's as easy as that.

I said, because then I may be creating a false narrative

with this episode and it looked different to what the reality is.

I said, so I feel with this one that my call is it either

doesn't go out if you don't wish it to or it does go out.

And that's why it never went out.

So it's fascinating.

You've got to make those calls.

And that's being part of being a business owner

and an interviewer and a creator as well, isn't it?

Because one interview always leads to the next.

It's the same, you know, I'll get off of the car that, you know,

may or may not have the most clearest of paths.

Very good question.

You fucking really danced around what was going on.

I've never seen you think so much about what you're going to say.

And look, and you look at the situation, you think, well,

there's quick profit in this car because I'm probably the only

person who's going to buy it.

But it's just it's not worth it.

We've had a potential sponsor like that as well.

Look, kind of thrown the money out, I reckon, but it just, ooh.

Yeah, it just didn't fit and I respect Rob and we throw,

nothing happens on this podcast without both of us agreeing to it.

And this sponsor, like, you know, I mean, really,

really wanted to, I mean, I don't even think price was even an object.

And Rob just said it's sort of a conflict.

It's not what we want to do.

I don't want to do it.

No problem, fine.

There's another sponsor.

And we're lucky enough, we are still, you know, saying no to a lot of sponsors.

We've got car vertical as a sponsor, which suits my business really well.

Yep.

I use them.

So I actually do, I use them before they become a sponsor.

So I do stand behind their brand.

So it fits in well.

But if someone wants to, you know, sell, I don't know, car air fresheners,

like it's not, you're not going to put a car air freshener in your million pound car.

So I'm not, you know, it lowers our brand by doing that.

So I think that leads us on nicely to be like, we've spread well on what,

for me, in all those situations, I've learned something from them.

On your extra long journey as a podcaster, what has changed the most with you?

The algorithms change and I fucking hate it.

What I'd like to do is do great content, have a great conversation, put it out.

But you're playing a game where algorithms change and you don't like clickbait.

We see, why don't I click?

No, he doesn't like, we see, we see clickbait differently.

I see it as a job you've got to do to get your art seen by the world.

He's like, fucking this word, this, what the fuck?

I hate the word exposed.

I don't think it works anymore though, I do.

Oh, I don't know, it depends.

I don't know, Mark McCann's on that all the time.

And they, they use the word exposed on a clip of ours with Mark McCann and I said to my guy,

that's why you're doing that, that's going to piss off Carla Mark.

Only showed me all the videos of Mark McCann when Mark McCann has said exposed, exposed,

exposed, exposed.

I don't really like it either.

But yeah, Carl shits himself.

I also just look at my brand, which is Tom Hartley Cars.

And, you know, if you could do clickbaity thing in business, we're against it.

We just, we don't, we don't do it.

We do, we do a great job that people need to recognize that we don't need to,

you know, sort of sell someone down an area because we can say,

oh, such and such exposed Bugatti.

Like, no, he didn't, he didn't expose Bugatti.

Exposed a small part of a piece of an area of a problem that was in that thing.

So I, we do have conversations all the time and I'm like, look, I don't want to use that word,

don't use that word, word.

But I also understand that the YouTube business is different on the other side of it.

Carl will be like, we're getting no fucking views.

What the fuck?

But I think, hey, come on, I think though,

you are only being clickbait if you haven't lived up to the title.

So in Mark's case, for argument's sake, the reason the videos do so well on average,

such high demand is because, yes, it is a clickbaity title for say,

but they do actually expose something in it.

Well, yeah, that's true.

It's not clickbait then.

I think we're in a world.

Because then that's not clickbait, exactly.

I think we're in a world now that if we're in the past, people would get away with making

a super clickbait title and videos doing well now, you can make a really clickable title.

But if the thing in it isn't actually what you've clicked on, the video will die.

Yeah, that's true.

And that is hard when everyone's at that game and you've interviewed a guest who,

you know, the conversation is good quality, but there's nothing in there that's got spice.

And that's what you need, something to sell the episode.

So that's changed over the years and you're fighting now for views.

I don't really like that game, but I want to get views.

And Carl partners with me because I've been a podcast for 10 years

and I've got to live up to that.

And sometimes you've got a guest who is a great name, but it was just a bit of a normal

of a conversation.

You've got to do something with that.

You've got to have a bit of spice to it.

You've got to sell it.

I love that bit of being in the interview.

When you do get someone that is more slightly hard rocked

and you do get the blood out of a stone, that is so much fun.

There's been a few times where we've been on a couch together,

because we normally sit on a couch and the guest sits like on another chair.

And there's been a few times where it's been going fine.

It's been going fine.

And then he'll ask the question and their initial answer.

I'll be like, this is it.

This is it.

This is this is go.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know that moment.

You know, but, you know, I think and we've had this off and I'm sure you do as well.

We have this off of all, I guess.

A lot of people have never been in front of a camera before.

They have never been in front of a camera for on a podcast.

It's their first one they've done, like Mark, for instance.

And he's like, just, just like having a chat, just like sitting down.

And I know a lot of the people who have come on the show because, you know,

they have an interesting cause.

And if they have an interesting cause, they've done business with me,

or they know me, or we've spoke, or we've met numerous times.

So I'm not a complete stranger.

And it's just like sitting down and some lads just having having a chat.

I mean, I done five or six beers when we, when we sat with Matt,

we just, we just had a, just had a chat.

Is there a bit of escapism to you now?

As well, that hour of just like two hours or two hours, maybe five hours.

Yeah. And the journey there and back.

Do you look forward to it now?

I love it. And if I didn't love it, I wouldn't do it.

I love it. I enjoy it.

You know, there's, I need to prioritize time for it.

And I'm getting a lot better at that.

And as we get the bigger name guest, that'd be easier to me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, but yeah, you know, I, I, I, you know, I'm not, the first few episodes,

like you and him will be talking and I'm just on my phone.

And he'll say, you've got to put your phone away on that.

I'm trying to do a deal. I'm trying to sell this.

I'm trying to buy this. Just give me two minutes.

Seriously, a body.

Yeah. So, but, but now I go and like, like we're here now,

put my phone on charge in my office.

You know, it's, it's, I'm lucky I'm at my office.

If, if anything was to set on fire, like I'm here.

So it's not going to be an emergency.

So yeah, I do enjoy it.

You do a lot of your business on the road though, don't you?

And you're, you're, you're doing the business on the phone.

So you can kind of be away.

You know, when we did the Dubai tour.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's really important, there's the three of us to kind of also,

I think people, if they see this episode,

go out and see it road success,

collaborate with cards and money are going to go,

what wasn't expecting that?

Because why not expect the unexpected?

Expect the unexpected because I think that for a while,

I've operated in a space talking about cars and success,

for say, and someone's journey that's,

I felt like it's been well quiet.

Like sometimes, you know, I felt like my videos,

I did done some million view plus videos and I thought,

blimmin' at us nowhere near the next one in views

and gone and interviewed people that got their own podcasts.

And they've gone, I don't know how you do these views.

And for ages, I think I ended up getting a bit complacent

towards Christmas a little bit and thinking,

and then you two came along and he calls me one day.

I remember exactly where I was on the road and he goes,

just saying, we're starting a podcast and it's about cars.

And I went, oh, for fuck's sake, here we go.

I was like, we're coming for you.

Once again, it goes back to the question you said earlier

about going sneaking behind someone's back

and stealing their customer or trying to, right?

I've known Ben for like COVID time.

So, you know, four or five years.

Yeah.

And we've done business together and we see each other

out of car shows and we get on really well.

Six years, maybe since COVID nearly.

Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.

And we get on really well.

And when we were going to do this,

I called Ben and I was like, look, we're going to do this.

And, you know, no one's stepping on anybody's toes.

It's just our take on my experience in the car world

and guess, and we don't know where it's going to go.

We don't know who we're going to have on.

But, you know, any advice?

You know, what do you think as a friend?

Like he could have probably took it the wrong way.

And I didn't even think about it that way

because my intentions weren't that way.

That's why I didn't think about how you might have fell.

But I wouldn't have expected him to be any different

to what he was.

He was like, well, mate, listen, if you need any help,

you need to struggle getting any guests or whatever.

I got Jay Leno.

I can maybe put you in contact with someone to get him and blah,

blah, blah.

And he just, that wasn't any different to what he expected from Ben.

But thinking about it now, and there's only literally now

of thinking about this, you could have went,

well, fucking hell, you know, you're moving in on my territory.

Like this is, this is what I do.

And now you're coming in to do it.

But competition, is it competition?

I don't think it's competition.

No, I don't think it's competition.

There's always competition for algorithm and friendly competition.

You said it at the start, whose videos are doing the most

average views and every other YouTuber wants to be met.

Armstrong, right now, right?

It's true, isn't it?

If you rebuild cars on the internet, you want to be at that level

at some point.

And I think you've always done a tremendous job.

But I think it's really important for anybody listening

from my perspective as well.

If sometimes it can be daunting when you get that phone call,

like Christ, someone else is turning up on my doorstep.

There's going to be some other videos out there

for people to choose from.

But I have felt so much more sense of right.

I've got to make sure that I'm minor on the same level.

Put your socks up.

That minor is going to be quality enough

that I'm going to keep doing the guests.

To me, you guys approved a concept that I didn't necessarily believe

is that a guest that wasn't necessarily as well known

can be beaten in the algorithm.

And that's been quite interesting to see and learn as well.

So I think it's so important to have friendly competition,

but it's also good for crossover.

And when we went to Supercar Fest, you come right up to me and said,

yeah, let's do it.

Let's get on this show, let's collaborate, let's do a podcast together.

And I think that's fab.

And it's kind of how you describe your relationship

with a lot of other car dealers, isn't it?

Like Tom Jacometti and others.

I've done a deal yesterday.

And when would this be launched?

Next Thursday?

Next Thursday.

So yeah.

So my beloved Pagani that I've had for years

and I sold, I bought back.

I took it off sale recently, like two weeks ago,

because just wasn't really getting it a little bit stale on the website.

I was thinking, do I sell it?

Do I not know what to do?

And Matt at Simon Furlonger called me, who like, you know,

he helps me out with sometimes parts for Bugatti's and stuff like that.

Or like Lamborghinis, we, he's a good Lamborghini service,

independent service centre.

So I send our Lamborghinis there, we work together.

He said, I've got a client who I think wants to buy your Pagani.

Is it for sale?

And I was like, but yeah.

Okay, can you get it down to me on Monday?

Because he's coming on Tuesday.

Well, today's Friday.

But this is how fresh this is.

And, you know, he sold it for me on Tuesday.

We work together.

We have a good relationship.

We have guys behind GVA.

Once again, they're in the same category.

They're in the same category.

You know, we may as well just go down the list of road traders, if you want.

Not necessarily.

Well, yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, there's, but also as well,

and I've got to be totally honest.

I am a super car dealer who has got a platform with help from no other person in my industry.

So why should I have, and I'm happy to speak respectfully about other people in my industry

if they do a good job.

And I do that.

I've done it on this podcast.

But why should I then give them a platform and go, right, guys, let me introduce you to

Joe Bloggs.

Yeah, yeah.

Please go and buy a car from him.

You know, what would be stupid for me to do?

Why would I do that?

Because what if it was the other way around?

It hasn't been the other way around.

You introduced him.

Well, they don't have a show called Cars of Money who's blowing up.

And I don't think they'd do it the other way around, would they?

They would do it the other way around.

My point is the other way around is that they could make a tit of themselves and make it even

easier.

But I wouldn't want someone to do that because then I look like I've called someone on the show.

We've tag-teamed them and like made them look a complete ass.

Well, gentlemen, I think we've A, disrupted.

B, spoken about cars.

C, spoken about money.

That was my favourite part, by the way.

This.

I mean, best to laugh.

Spoken about road to success with both of you.

So I think we've got all points covered.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having us on your show.

And the collab.

Always a pleasure, mate.

Always a pleasure.

Cheers, gentlemen.

All right.

About this episode

Carl Hartley and Rob Moore lay out how their “cars and money” world works—starting with Hartley’s supercar-dealer identity and Moore’s property-investing background. The hosts trace how the show concept formed, how it grew (including view counts), and why interview dynamics shift with contracts, PR, and discretion. Along the way, they compare decision styles, discuss financing and deal speed, and debate ethics, clickbait, and trust. The episode blends business strategy with vivid car stories and practical logistics.

air hose anti-lock brakes brake failure Bugatti freeway investment cars as property Lamborghinis limp mode locked up Pagani

Aston Martin DB5 Ferrari 458 Lamborghini Aventador Lamborghini Countach Lamborghini Diablo McLaren F1 Mercury Monterey Porsche 911

Original notes

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In this episode, we sit down with Carl Hartley and Rob Moore for one of the rawest and most brutally honest conversations we’ve ever had.

From building billion-view podcasts and becoming Europe’s biggest supercar dealer, to childhood trauma, pressure, loyalty, Andrew Tate, business, success, failure and the truth about money — this episode goes DEEP.

Rob opens up about being bullied growing up, his father’s public breakdown and the moment that completely changed his life forever. Carl reveals what it was really like being thrown into business as a child, learning from his father and brother, and why success “lasts for one second.”

The guys also discuss the reality of running businesses at the highest level, why nobody is truly loyal, dealing with pressure, interviewing controversial guests like Andrew Tate, the Bonnie Blue situation, F1 media training, competitors, trust, masculinity, and the mindset required to win.

Don’t forget to subscribe to our channel for more exciting content about your favourite shows and celebrities. Hit the bell icon to stay updated on all our latest episodes

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