Charles Clifford Brooks III

Charles Clifford Brooks III The Reckon Yard Podcast · Jun 14, 2026

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114:17

Term

head unit

The head unit is the main screen/radio control box in the dashboard. If you “pull” it, you’re removing it so you can fix or upgrade parts of the sound system.

Brand

Bose system

Bose is a well-known audio company. The host is saying that for a while, lots of cars offered Bose as the premium sound option.

Brand

Diamondback bicycle

Diamondback makes bicycles. They’re using it as a joke/comparison to say the car’s “premium” audio didn’t feel that impressive.

Car

The Chevrolet Silverado is a large truck made for work and towing, like hauling cargo or pulling a trailer. Different versions (trims) add different features, and the podcast mentions an LTZ-style trim. That means it’s likely being discussed as a more equipped Silverado.

Term

LTZ Package

The LTZ Package is a higher equipment level on certain GM trucks. Here it matters because it’s the trim level that was commonly paired with the Bose audio system.

Term

subwoofer

A subwoofer is the speaker that handles the deep bass notes. The host is saying the Bose package included a subwoofer, which helps explain why the system should sound better than a basic setup.

Part

Harnesses

A wiring harness is a set of wires/adapters that lets you connect a new car stereo to your car’s existing wiring. It usually makes the install cleaner and avoids having to splice wires together.

Brand

Crutchfield

Crutchfield is a store that sells car audio gear. They also help you find the right parts and wiring for your specific car so you can install a stereo more easily.

Term

amp

An "amp" is the part that makes the music louder. It takes the audio signal and powers the speakers so they sound better.

Term

GPS antenna

The GPS antenna is the part that talks to the GPS satellites. Without it (or if it’s not connected), navigation can fail or be inaccurate.

Term

part numbers

Part numbers are like exact product IDs for car parts. Using the right one helps you get the correct wiring or components that will actually fit and work.

Term

bad ground

A "ground" is the car’s electrical connection back to the battery. If it’s bad, certain systems can act up because the electricity can’t flow properly.

Car

GMT-800s

GMT-800 is a GM truck generation/platform. Some of these trucks can have electrical gremlins because the car’s wiring grounds (the metal connections that complete the electrical circuit) aren’t making good contact. Cleaning or replacing the ground cable can make a lot of those problems disappear.

Term

grounding issues

In a car, electricity needs a good “return path” back to the battery. If the metal connections that provide that path (grounds) get dirty or corroded, the car can act strangely. Fixing the ground connections helps the electrical system work normally again.

Part

ground cable with battery

This is the thick wire that connects the battery’s negative side to the car’s metal frame. If it’s corroded or loose, the car’s electronics can get bad connections and act up. Replacing it and cleaning the connection points helps everything get proper power/ground.

Term

frame rail

The frame rail is part of the car’s main metal structure. Some electrical grounds are attached to it with bolts. If that spot is dirty or corroded, the electrical connection can be weak—cleaning it can fix the problem.

Term

AC

“AC” means the car’s air conditioning. When the host says it “straightened out,” they mean the air conditioning started working normally again after they fixed an electrical grounding problem.

Term

plugs

“Plugs” here are almost certainly spark plugs. They make the spark that lights the fuel in the engine. If they’re old or worn, the engine can run rough, so replacing them can help.

Term

seat heater

A seat heater is a built-in electric warmer in the seat. It uses wiring and a heating element, and it’s usually protected by safety parts like fuses.

Term

unplugging

Unplugging here means disconnecting an electrical plug under the seat. It’s a way to stop power to a part and see if that fixes the problem.

Term

element

The element is the part inside the seat heater that actually makes heat. If you remove it, the seat can’t warm up even if the wiring tries to turn it on.

Term

fuse

A fuse is like an electrical safety plug. If too much current flows, it breaks the circuit to protect the wiring and prevent damage.

Car

GMT-800

GMT-800 is a name for a generation of certain Chevrolet and GMC trucks/SUVs from roughly the late 1990s through the mid-2000s. The point here is that the vehicle eventually started needing repairs and the host kept driving it until things got worse.

Concept

maintenance issues

“Maintenance issues” means the car is having problems because parts are wearing out or weren’t kept up with. The idea is to repair them before they turn into bigger, more expensive failures.

Term

electronics

“Electronics” here means the computer-controlled parts of the car—like sensors and control modules. If those start acting up, the car may need troubleshooting and repairs, not just simple mechanical fixes.

Place

Texas Motorplex

It’s a drag strip in Texas where cars race down the track and get timed. The host is talking about racing there.

Term

run what you brung car

It means you race the car you already have, not a super expensive custom race build. The challenge is making it work well without spending tons of money.

Term

quarter mile passes

Drag races are often measured over a quarter mile. The time numbers (like 12–13 seconds) tell you how fast the car gets down that distance.

Term

454

“454” is the engine size—about 7.4 liters—used in some classic Chevy V8s. Bigger displacement like this usually means lots of pulling power, which makes the truck feel fast and exciting.

Concept

wrecking yard

They’re using “wrecking yard” to mean a junkyard-style build. The point is that this truck wasn’t just thrown together from scraps—it was built to be exciting.

LIVE

Rusted old memories buried in dust

Through the wreckage of dreams

I'm trying to trust each faded sign

Whisked stories of old, of laughter

And heartache of love that grew cold

Are you really digging for peace

Or is that just a lie teller help you sleep

Sure that you really want

Truth behind all the stories they go

Welcome to The Wrecking Yard, I'm Gary Wayne Longman

And y'all, presumably still y'all

Woo, all are welcome here in the Church of Internal Combustion

We just asked that you show up with an open heart

Sorry, it is pissing down rain out there

So men you say, it's raining like a cow peeing on a flat rock

I mean, just dumping down

This has been about the past week or so in Houston

It's just been non-stop steady pissing down rain on us

And we're of course trying to get ready to leave for shows in Colorado

It's going to be a family trip

I'm trying to get things done on the pickup

And I'm tired of working on the pickup in the rain

People are like, Gary you got that big garage there

Why don't you bring truck in the garage

Because I do this in the garage

I got no roof or pickup in the garage

And I got all my beloved junk that someday I'm going to do something with

I did just get rid of a whole bunch of it

So I'm pretty excited about that

There is more room for activities

I think I'm going to set up a dojo on that side and start learning kung fu

Something else ridiculous

I'm kidding, somebody's going to do any of that

How in the hell are y'all doing today?

I have got so many things to do and I'm behind on all of them

And I think my chair is trying to clock out a day early

Nope, we're back

My goodness

Got my spectacles

Got a new episode

New Wally Bottoms, Texas

Pardon me, I got to blow my nose

Let's get the phone out

Oh, I got me a knack in somewhere

Oh, I don't know what the wreck there is

I'm thinking about doing a rampage for the next lot, legends

That would be cool

Who am I a little scattered today?

Been a rascally morning already

Been a busy little Sunday here at the Longmire car household

Got plenty to do today

First to shout out are sponsors

Outlaws, gents, men's grooming products

My hair is soaking wet so I can't see it in there

But it's in my beard that makes that water run off like a duck

I like it

The beard feels so soft and nice

I should have put it on my hair

It wouldn't make the water run off my hair like a duck too

All their beard oils and beard products

Full of natural ingredients, some of the best carrier oils on the planet

And you should definitely check them out

Outlawsandgents.com

It's what I wear every day

Also, big shout out to the world of outlaws

Sprint car, late model series

I don't know if y'all saw, if y'all keep up

Yeah, I'm more of a late model guy, right?

The only Texas outlaw

Is Tyler Turbo Herb

Right here, right here around my parts

Oh, he's Texas boy

Southeast Texas kind of

But

He has just been on a streak lately

I've been loving it, you saw him catch a

$30,000 payday last night

And that made me happy to see that young man win

He got a baby on the way

He didn't even make that money

Yeah

So definitely if you're in the area

Where you can get out and catch a world of outlawsandgents

Jump out there, I myself

This month

Oh, next

Right after I get back in Colorado next Wednesday

I'm flying to Minneapolis

And then I'm driving to Fergus Falls

I wonder if you say, Fergus Falls

Minazota

I'm going to Fergus Falls, Minnesota

For a late model

Late model races

So maybe if I'm lucky when I'm there

I get to interview old Turbo

Something like that

I'd like to have him on the show

He's an interesting young man

Day show is going to be a little different

I have a special guest today

I have an interview that I filmed a few days ago

I'm really excited for y'all to see it

But before we get into that

Let's uh

Let's talk avalanche

I got some wins on the avalanche right now

So David

When I bought the avalanche

David had this box of junk

That junk

Just spare parts

Little things he picked

David's constantly buying stuff off eBay

And going swap meets and that sort of thing

And he sees something and he's like

Oh, I got a vehicle that might fit

He just goes ahead and buys them lots

And then sometimes he might resell them on eBay

And then sometimes he just sits out in his garage

And looks at them, you know

But

David had given me this box of stuff

And he said I got this stereo

I was going to try to put in this thing

But I never got around to messing with it

He said I think the head unit

And there's no good

I said damn, damn, damn

So I got playing around with it

Messing around with it

And the head unit was okay but the screen was bad in it

So it looked like crap

And also

I needed to pull the head unit anyways

Because the amp in the Avalanche

So the Avalanche had those

There was a handful of years there

Right, probably a decade or more

Where all of a sudden

The premium audio packages in vehicles

Was the Bose system

But it wasn't like

It was like

The Bose system

They were putting in these cars

Was like

The Diamondback bicycle

You could buy at Walmart

It's not the same thing

It's a cheaper

There's no highs and lows

It must be Bose, that was the old saying

Right

It's not, now in some of the premium cars

Like Cadillac and Lincoln

And some of the higher end cars

Those were actual Bose systems

But the ones they were putting in General Motors

And you know

Your regular pickup trucks

And stuff, those

They say Bose

They say Bose on them when you take them apart

But they just fall just a little bit short

So what happened

With those Avalanches

And I'm sure some of the Silverados and stuff

When you had the LTZ

Package and the Bose system

It had a little amp

And a subwoofer

It had a little amp up under the console

And those amps are notorious for

Just take, they dry solder

And they, they're just notorious

For bumping themselves apart

Not working very well

Now I've heard they're pretty easy to take apart and fix

I never tried anything like that

But I might take that one out and try to fix it

But the easiest thing to do is bypass that damn thing

From everything I read

Like I'm not a car audio guy

I just spent a lot of time over the last two or three weeks

Reading it

The last, you know, the last car stereo

I put in was

On a car that was 30 years old

You know

Oh no, I put one in the Yukon

But I had to look it all up and order the

Harnesses and all that stuff

When I first bought the Yukon for Rachel

I bought her a nice system from

Crutchfield

As Mother's Day

Present one year and installed it for

Anyway

I had never messed all these

You know, these new systems

Anyway

In that box there was a really nice pioneer

AWH

4500 series

Stereo

And I, they did know a lot about

He's, I don't know if it has carplay

I don't know what it all has but it's supposed to be a really nice unit

And he's pretty sure it works

I got fussed with it and decided to go swap it out

Put it in there for our trip so we have stereo

On the trip

Woo, that was a task

I had to do some learning

And

I ordered five harnesses

Four of them were wrong, one of them was right

And I ordered three more harnesses

Two of those were wrong and one of those was right

And somehow

And then I went to a local stereo shop

Here and bought another adapter

And somehow

I got enough parts to put this whole damn thing together

And bypassed that amp

And damn if it don't sound good

It sounds real good

Front speakers, you know, you get up high volume

They're a little rattly but I'm too old to list stuff too loud anymore

And if I want to later on

I'll go replace those with better quality speakers

But that's a really nice system

But it didn't have any of it

I had to order harnesses for it too

Because all the harnesses going back in the stereo were gone

And the GPS antenna

All that stuff was missing

So I had to order all that

And find hunt down part numbers

And find all that mess and order all that

And I

Crutchfield's a little slow on shipping so I was having to do it all through Amazon

Which is why I was getting so much of the wrong ship

But got it all straight

Got it all straight

I think I've got the AC problem straightened out

I found a bad ground underneath the truck

That was really

Somebody suggested it

In the comments actually

And I remembered here

I remembered, you know, reading

People talking about GMT-800s

And their grounding issues

So the next thing is

If I can get a day with no rain tomorrow

I'm changing that ground cable completely out

Ground cable with battery

But I took that ground apart

On the bottom of the frame rail

At the bottom of the cab

And cleaned it up

And a whole bunch of problems went away

So I think I've got

The AC straightened out so

I'm going to put the dash back together later

Day

And I changed the plugs

In the truck

And I called this piece of artwork right here

What's left of my mangled left hand

I like to call that beautiful piece of artwork

Plug number 8

5.3LS

Because

Second of all

I sure like to meet the engineer

That thought it was a good idea to put a little water sensor

Right over the number one plug

That's supposed to be the easiest plug

But the others are like

No, I can't have that

I can't have that

I start on number 8 plugs

I want to do the hardest one first

And I thought that something 15 got it done

And you know, using my little tools

And

Got around, got the number one plug

And then had to take the battery

The battery

Mount for the

I don't even know what the hell you call it

It's like a junction box right there

Where you can jump start your battery

Had to take all that crap off

Some other bullshit

That was all in the way

And then this damn water sensors right there

Where you can just break it

All you got to do is just bump up a little bit

And I would really like

To meet the engineer

That decided to make the number one plug

Such some of a bitch

When it's supposed to be the easiest one

Because I will kick him in the dick so hard

It turns inside out

I swear to God I will

Oh, I cussed that man

Anyway, the plugs are done

The truck's running better

Got some old grounding issues straightened out

I'm going to tackle some more grounding issues

To maybe make my trip go a little smoother

Get the dash back together

This seat warmer

I took the door apart

Because I was pretty sure

That the door switch

Was shorted over here

Because after it rained

For a couple of days after that

The seat heater and the back heater

Would come on by itself and you couldn't get it

You could turn it off but then it would just

Come right back on by itself

I looked up one or two things

Usually the element and the seat can short

Or that switch but the way it was doing it

After it rained every time made me suggest

Made me suspect

The moisture was getting in the door

And jacking that switch

I said well, took it apart

Ordered a switch

Got the switch, it's the wrong switch

It's for a truck that has adjustable foot pedals

Mine does not have that

And so it has this other stuff there

Hook it up, that switch doesn't work at all

That's a dammit

It's dead

Before I tell you what I do

Just make sure the seat ain't coming on

I just unhooked that switch

There's nothing driving that seat anymore

Lo and behold

The seat has become self aware

And the seat heater is coming on by itself now

I got up under the seat

Thought I was unplugging

The right thing

Unplugged something

Thought that would be the end of it

The seat heater is still coming back on

So I don't know if they put a dam AI

In the seat heaters

For what's going on

But I'm about to unplug everything to that seat

And worst case scenario I'm going to take that

Dag gum element right out there

Supposedly there's a fuse that operates that seat

But I've gone over that fuse map

A couple times with a microscope

And

Have not located the seat heater fuse

So if I could find that

I'll just pull that fuse until we get back to Colorado

I got time to fix it correctly

And a lot of people are like why don't you cut the wire

I want you to do it because I'm fixing things

Fixing things

You know

I had a GMT-800 that I loved

And I drove it until every little

Nip picky thing wasn't working right anymore

And everything was broke in it

And it always made me sad

Because I remember my father-in-law told me one time

He said boy he said you know

You start fixing this stuff now

You'd be on top of it

Before it gets out of hand

And I didn't

And it all just slowly fell apart on me

These are all things that need to be repaired

They're maintenance issues

There are too much electronics

And too much this and stuff and cars

No they're just maintenance issues

They're just things that need to be fixed

And I'm going to fix them all correctly

That's why I'm taking the time

To beat my head against the wall a couple of times

It's a

It's a labor

Of love

I want to fix all the little things

So my shit's just like

Like it rolled off the showroom floor

With just a few upgrades

That's all I'm doing

I'm tackling it all anyways

I got a bunch of stuff fixed this week

And I'm really excited about that

Looking forward to this trip man

I'm doing

One show in Denver

And four shows in Fort Collins

And I just love that club in Fort Collins

Called Comedy Fort

I've never been to the Denver Improb before

They'll be fun but

My oldest kid, Junie

Has been in connected camps

It was a program that taught kids how to code

And stuff

Since Junie was like seven years old

Been a part of this

Has made lifelong friends through this thing

And they talk and they play online together all the time

They build minecraft games

And they've just

They've all been friends for

Going on a decade now

Junie just turned 16

I got a 16 year old

About to start working on driving

He's finally expressing some interest in driving

So take him out in the avalanche

Find an empty parking lot

Start

Giving the ride

I can't wait to teach him all the dumb shit

All the stuff my dad taught me

My dad used to tell me

You know

You didn't learn how to drive through the rain

Don't worry about windshield wipers

What are you going to do if your windshield wipers fail

You just drive through the drops

Always drive 10 cars ahead

Next time you talk to me

Always make sure you're driving 20 cars ahead

If you're on a motorcycle you need to be driving

About 45 cars ahead

I can't wait to teach all that silly shit

I'm excited about that

But we're going to Colorado as a family

And

Junie's friends

Because they're scattered all over the country

But a lot of them are in Colorado

Because their parents are in tech and stuff

They meet in Denver every year

Last year was the first year we got to take Junie

They meet in Denver every year

And they have this big celebration

They call it Junes Day on June 19

And

It was just so wonderful

Watch my kid enjoy being a part of it last year

And this year the kids don't really have any place to hang out

Because

The main parents' house that they usually hang out

They're having a bunch of work done on their house

And they got a bunch of stuff going on

Rachel found this really cool Airbnb

In Arvada

Which is part of Denver where they all hang out

Rachel found this cool Airbnb

That has like

Putt Putt golf

Mini golf in the backyard

A big game room basement downstairs

With a movie room

And veg games

All kind of neat stuff down there

And then plenty of space for the rest of us

And one of Junie's friends is going to stay with us

Who's coming without their parents

And

We found a spot for the kids' doll

Hangout

And so I'm going to spend the week

Pretending to leave it to beaver father

And

Why I'm stoned

It's going to be cool

And then we're going to spend father's day

In Colorado

And Rachel's best friend Lorena

Is coming up in Colorado Springs

They got a little web or barbecue grill

Like what I already used

And we're going to throw down some fajitas

And have a little, I'm going to record

A very special father's day

Episode right there in our

Excuse me

Taking all my lights

Cameron

And I'm going to record

A special father's day episode

For next week right there

And I know you guys will be busy

With your own father's day

Just watch it when you get a minute

But for now

I want you to enjoy

This interview

Between me and my

Special guest

I say it all in this intro

But

Clifford is a

Brilliant, fascinating man

With autism, he's 50 years old

And he owns

He owns three presses

Including the Southern

Collective Experience Press

Who's going to be publishing

My next three books at this point

And

He's just

They're writing him up in Forbes magazine

Right now because he's one of the first guys

In a long time to make

Money printing books

He's bringing back an art form

He's one of the first guys

In a long time to make money selling poetry books

And so he's kind of thrown the literary

World on its head

And some of the business world too

Because it's been a business that's been struggling

As we found

Because of all these corrupt publishers

And all the stuff that's going on out there

A lot of publishers ain't doing well

No Clifford

Managed to just come up out of nowhere

And kill it

So you guys enjoy

My interview

And get to know my publisher

Also

Brilliant, brilliant author

Charles Clifford Brooks III

Guys we've been talking about my book here

On the podcast for a little while

We've been talking about some of my trials

And tribulations with various publishers

And I wanted to bring on a very special guest today

I'm going to bring on my publisher

Who is

A Pulitzer nominated

Poet

His poetry exceeds most things I've read

And

On top of that he's just all around fantastic guy

But he owns several different presses

He started the Southern Collective

Experience

And has invited me to be a part

Of this co-op

Of Brilliant Minds

And I'm just really honored to be a part of it

You guys please welcome

Mr. Clifford Brooks

Well Longmire

Which is the only name I will ever call you

Because I feel like we need to be going off on the range

And solving some heinous deed

Done by the guys in black

But

I know

I want to tell folks how

Before we dig into me

About two years ago

Is when I found you

On a tiktok

And then the other platforms

And

The way

The way literature

Is often

Torn apart

Dissected

The way your delivery runs

And the way that you're

Dialogue

It's not just comedy

And I'm not a comedian so I don't know exactly how

To differentiate between these two

But there are voices and there are characters

And there's a story in what you do

Whereas other comedians

Just tell jokes

And I don't want a bunch of comedians

That might

That's probably the least scary thing in the world

Oh I've got a bunch of comedians in my yard

To whoop my ass

But

When I

First got into your comedy

And then saw that it was

Consistent

Heartfelt

Without getting mushy

And especially when you talk about your mom

My mom was my best friend too

And in fact she about the same time

Was like have you heard of this long Meyer fellow

I was like

Of course she talks about it like y'all know each other for years

And I was like

Yeah I know maybe

You talk about the comedian and he's like

Yeah I just really think y'all get along

And I said

I was thinking about having it in the magazine

And we'll work your wife into this too

So I'll write you like all professional

You know

Ed and chiefs of magazines do

I wrote you all in your comments

On tiktok

And you wrote back like you have to write to my manager

Here's her email and I was like

Ah shit

Because that's why I try to weasel around

Because sometimes managers

Are the

Finger in the diet kind of thing

And so

Your wife got me on the phone

And

Asked me questions

Like what's your mother's

Blood type

And

I needed a lock to be a daddy's hair

And

Are you sure those are really your parents

Because I've got documentation here

And

I could also

But again it's

It's one of those things that I laugh about

But it gives me so much relief because I know

What they're doing is digging into the product

And knowing because the last thing

I want to do and I put this out to anybody

That's trying to make a magazine or podcast

Don't do it for you

It's just gonna sound vain and no one's gonna tune in

I wanted

Your wife to know that what you're getting into

Was

Not only worth being into but it was gonna stick

She's a tough manager

She was a talent buyer for years

In the comedy industry

Specifically

For the lifestyle in Houston

That's where we met

But she

Guards me well

And I appreciate it

There's sometimes a need for a little bit of gatekeeping

You know what I'm saying

And once you get to a point where you have to insulate yourself

Because

My god I'd get

You know if my

If my regular email was open I would get

A thousand pictures

Of somebody's pickup a day

I wouldn't open it up

Well that's what happens is

In my natural

Residence

I will just

Get overwhelmed and not

Not respond at some point

And that's what I was losing gigs

Because I wasn't responding

To these people asking about gigs and stuff

It's like a paralysis

You want to do it

I don't

It's not the part of the business I want to do it all

Me either

I like talking to people from the stage

I like meeting people after the show

But then the rest of my creative process

Requires

Very little distraction

Right

I could

Write truck astrology for another hundred years

I could write Faulkner bits

For another hundred years

But it requires

An escape from distraction

Yes

I call that an ample amount of shut the fuck up time

I'm very good

And I suspect maybe you are too

I'm very good at just tuning the whole world out though

Yes

I can turn world radio

Right down

And just go off my own head

I can do it in the airport

Bang away

I do most of my writing on my phone

I can sit there in the airport

A lot of times what I'll do

For like a writing exercise

Is just keep my mind sharp

I'll just look at somebody that

Sticks stands out to me and write

This is where this guy's come from

This is where he's on his way to

This is what he's doing

It is

It's um

When you talk about writing

And um

I've dodged this

Since I realized it

I started writing when I was

Ten years old and I hated school

When school started back at the end

Of summer and kids were crying

I missed you so bad and have nothing to do

I thought y'all are psychopaths

You couldn't find one tree to fuck

You'd rather be in this bullshit

In this building

Listen to this bail

Then being someplace else

Didn't get it at all

When I was ten

Because

This is my point

Because when I finished your book

Last night

You're meant to do it and you're not

And it's uh

If you're meant to do it

You want to

You want to ring out with

I knew it

And then

If you don't feel that way

Uh, it's a hard pill to swallow

And

In every other vocation in the world

So you and I graduated high school together

And it's now 2026 and we graduated

In 1995

And you have a career and a life of kids

Stuff going on and you're like, Cliff, what are you doing?

I'm like, well I'm still in medical school

You go uh, Clifford

Maybe a medical and ain't your thing

You ever thought about being a dentist

Or a landscaper

Or maybe you should be a writer

And it puts

The arts are the only vocation where it puts you in that

That uh

Because you don't want to snatch somebody's dream away

And there is that one

And a one bazillionth chance

That a self-published book makes it

Or that book that was denied

918000 times

Makes it

And I'm not trying to crush anybody's dreams now

There's a quote

I'm gonna probably slaughter

But it says um

Uh, creative writing

Is difficult to teach

And impossible to learn

And uh

What I take that to mean

Is that

I can sit down with someone

And teach them how to write the most

Succinctly

Easy to understand

Microwave instruction manual

In the world, but I cannot teach

And maybe it's just me

I cannot teach what I call that divine blue flame

That thing that you have

That when you turn pages, you want to

That excitement, those things that have been written

You know, sometimes hundreds of years ago

Like classical music

And as far as sound

Is concerned, you know exactly

What he's thinking

And so to have things even older than that

How in the world

Where does that ethereal thing come from

That allows us

To put on paper things that people will still

Relate to

Not just have to do for, you know, homework

For somebody boring, but read this

And get themselves into it

It's something that you're

Born with it

A lot of people have it twisted

That you have to go get college degrees in it

Because I have never been formally trained

To be a poet

That's where people get it twisted

One of my favorite questions to ask people

Is like, what do you think the

Equation is to

Natural talent versus practice

Practice meaning

Like learning a class

And the answers are always

Interesting. I'm not going to say

That school's not needed at all

So I don't have the entire world raised up against me

But

When I sat down to write poetry

For the first time

I had zero

And at the same time

I say this

I don't suggest people start it this way

I lied

To my agent. I had one poem left

In 2010

And it was about being an alcoholic

Called Faulkner and my lovely

Liquid lady

That was shortened, as you might imagine

Much later, the Judas

Tavern, but it was the only one I had

And I threw it in this packet. This is right before

You started doing everything in my email

And some stuff was snail mail

So if I didn't have on my phone

New York City

I would have thought someone was taking my chain

And they were like, hey, this is Stephanie

I work with Mark Straley. We love

Your prose

And I was probably 30, 31 at the time

And she said, but

This poem

Jerry, I forgot to put it in there

I forgot to put it in there

Because I only had one

And then she started to read it

And that's where the crossroads came up

Tell them it's just the one I got

Or lie my ass off

I lied my ass off

I love poetry. I'm so glad you picked that

You know what? I was nervous

I was nervous to add that

To the collection because y'all were so hip

On my prose that I thought

I can't have my heart broken if you don't love it

And she's like, oh, I'm just so glad you feel that way

On the inside

Where's the rest of it? Where's the rest of it? Oh, I get to it

I get to it. On the outside, I'm like

Yeah, girl, I got this. This is what I do all day

It's me and Tupac

On the inside, I'm crying

Like a little girl

Straily gets on the phone and says the same thing

And I say

Man, dude, poetry's been

That's, I came out

Speaking in I Am Your Metameter

I wanted it upside and down the other

And he goes, great, when can I have

80 more pages

And I said

2026

You know, back

Because I never

But there was something in me, man

And I don't

I don't get

Behind a pulpit and I don't get on a soapbox

But there was, again, this voice that

Before I said, oh, man, look, I'm playing, I'm joking

I put its hand on my chest and said, we got this

We got this

We got this, we got this

And I said

Yeah, man, I said

Surely he'll want it in a month

When do you want it? He said, could I have it

In 10 days

Yeah, man, you don't want it tomorrow

I'll drive it to you

Because if you go go in, you go in all the way

You want it tomorrow

Yeah, I'll pony express it

Yeah, I'll take it up there

I get off the phone, I cry for a little while

Because

When you're writing and you get your foot in your door

In the door, you put that

Gotta go, gotta go

It's the truth

Sometimes, like Eminem said

You only get that one chance, that one time

I had to stand up the same way

You go

I'm one of those blessed few

That got a couple opportunities

And I managed to screw the first ones up

When I was young doing drugs

And being stupid

And now I've got this other opportunity

In front of me and it's like, all right

Well, it's go time, you know

Gotta deliver the goods now

There's a pattern

There's a pattern to that

Like I mentioned before

The first poem I ever wrote

That

When I got, when I finished it

I didn't write poetry

I didn't really connect with it

Of course, I was aware that it existed

But

Didn't really call to me

And I had come out

My first run in with alcoholism

And this idea

Hit me

I think this comes to all artists in general

We don't know where it comes from

And when people say, where do you get your ideas

If you can tell me concretely

Where you get them, it's because you stole it

From somebody else

And then people

It's another way you know whether or not

You need to do this

If you ask somebody, where do you get your ideas

And they go, I don't know

And you get mad, you need to be a dentist

They're not keeping it as a secret

You know, I don't

So I thought

One of my favorite songwriters

Is Merle Haggard

He's one of the most prolific songwriters

Of the 20th century

And I heard him do an interview one time

Where he said, I don't really write songs

I just sort of pull them

I just pull them out of somewhere

Out of some divinity

I just, I wretch up and grab them

That's what I do

And I feel that way

Especially writing fiction in that

I know this story hasn't happened

But I can see it 100% in my head

I can smell the leather in the car

I can hear the car door slam

I can hear the bullet go past

I can hear all that stuff

I can see what's happened to these people

When you start writing about them

But I don't know where in the shit that comes from

I think you're nailing it on the head

It's, we are

And just today in the age

And we know where we are now

To say it's divine

People kind of bristle

But after about the last

After the last decade

Like I said, I'm not trying to be Billy Graham

But it is something divine

Whether you believe

Whether you're a believer or not

And it's not the argument

Right, right

Whether you're a believer or not doesn't matter

But divinity and creation go hand in hand

I have since the beginning

Of that story being told

Right, and so we don't create things

When you make things, I think the carpenter

I think

The good, I've seen drywall men that are artists

You know what I mean

Like, I think when you

Create things, there's

Divinity in that, there just has to be

That's the only way new things come into the world

I'm sure there's a scientific

Explanation, but I don't know what to do

It shouldn't be any better than that

It's just making something more complicated

You know, when I

In the art of writing

You and I had this conversation

Where you had told me, you know

I never really got into that

When I was in school

I hated grammar when I was in school

Until I got into

My advanced college class

And the way my brain works is when we started

It's not the first time we did it

But it was the way diagramming sentences

Were taught to me that it went

I got it

Ten years old, I started writing my first stories

Or fantasy stories

And they were to get me out of

A life, a world

That did not make sense

I had an ideal like childhood

So it wasn't like trying to get away from trauma

We found out later that it's autism

You know, you do things that are

In a certain order and they make sense

You're not the unnipotent god

They're still fun there

But you have

You have control where you might not feel otherwise

I walked in and my mama had this

Little red notebook that she still has

Like all my good mamas do

She's holding this little red notebook

And she goes, when I come in my bedroom

Did you do this?

I wasn't a bad kid, Jerry

But I'd been in enough shit

I couldn't tell if it was

Did you do this?

Or did you do this?

And so I decided to

Not get my ass whipped that day

And I said, yes ma'am, that's fine

And I remember seeing her

I always tested well in school

But I just hated school, the concept of it

I hated

The relief that my mama's face

When she saw that I had

Academically

Linked into something

And I didn't know I was doing anything special

You know, I just sat there

And I mean, I like to play by myself

I like to do my own thing

And

I remember watching a movie

I remember this Thursday

It was the old He-Man

The very first He-Man with Dolph Laundering

And I said, I could do better than that

And so I just went home and just made up these characters

And I found myself getting sucked into it

And so I followed that thread

I think that

Studying, being aware

Of the different forms of stuff

I'm gonna sound a little snarky right here

But if you come up to me and say, yeah

I like poetry, I write sonnets

Now, I'm not hating on sonnets

But in my mind, in my experience

That's when somebody says

I really can't write poetry

But I have nailed this

This blueprint down

And that's what I do

I have read Sonnet Shakespeare

Of course, Godfather

But I have a student now that writes Sonnets so well

That it took me a good two months

Before I realized that's what they were

They were so elegant

They were so crafted

And you have to have that natural

Nack to it

Let me ask you this

You teach a writing program

Or you teach how to make money at writing

Yes, I teach

The business of writing for UCLA

I teach

Grammar for Editors for UCLA

And the Autistic Writers Workshop

For UCLA

And you also teach your own program

I do

For adults with autism

And adults raising autistic children

You've helped me a lot with my son

You've helped me understand my son

Quite a deal better

And not to say it isn't still a struggle sometimes

But

My momma will teach the same thing

You have to like

Yeah

It's

I found

Step me aside from writing for a minute

Because I'll get off on a tear with this

I created a non-profit called

The Southern Cleveland Experiences

Community Outreach

At first we were going to focus on

Helping with the adult drug court program

Here and then a new member

Of the company came in and said

My son's autistic, he's helped me realize

That I'm autistic

But there is no

Counseling out there

For adults with autism

Which is insane to me

Because whatever you're doing with kids

Just name it something manly

And then teach it to us

About how to

Emotionally regulate

Like you mentioned before

Or maybe even off camera

Where I have this to plan

But I'm great with talking to people

But these things here make me lock up

With autistic

And it's ADHD too

They overlap so much

There's this new term

Aude-HD-AD

Because I don't think there's a pure form

Pure form of anything

I've found

What I've learned

So over the years just in my own reading

And trying to understand

Know it better and with Rachel

Is that

Neurodivergency is such a

It's such a broad

Category of people whose minds

Work differently

And categorize information

And process data

Differently

That you made a joke to me

Because we were talking about Faulkner

And I said my favorite book

My favorite because everybody

Always says I'll be dying

And all the big hits

But my favorite Faulkner

Is Fable

And some of it's because I grew up

Pentecostal and it's the savior narrative

I enjoy a good Jesus story

But when I told you

That was my favorite book

You said you're autistic

And I go da

And then I was screwing around on my computer

And I was like do neurodivergent people

Prefer Fable to Faulkner's other works

And it came out a resounding yes

And it was for all the reasons

That I told you that I liked it

Was that I liked the way

You never know who's speaking

Because to me that's the way

Information like I wish I could write

The way my brain works sometimes

Because I don't

I don't give a shit

Who the narrator is

I just need a constant voice

Telling me what's going on in the scene

And that's what he does through that

This whole sort of stream of conscious

I don't need to know if it's the general

Saying all this shit I don't care

I just need the shit to be said

Right

And I remember that distinctly because

Being autistic

Not knowing you

As well as we do now

When you told me that

I just blurred it out with no feeling whatsoever

Yeah, you're autistic

And I'm just lucky because anybody else been like

I'll be at your house for 15 minutes with a baseball bat

You'll be out in the front yard and say

Wait, wait, wait

It's one of those things where you knew it

And I'm not an expert with autism

I always had to say that

I'm not a doctor but I'll play one on TV

I believe that with

Much of especially autism

We see things

Exactly as they are

We're very literal people

I called Noah Drax

From Guardians of the Galaxy

He's my Drax

I made a joke one time

He asked where mommy was

And this was a joke my dad used to say

All the time and I said

She ran off to join the circus

And oh my god

The level of bullshit

I brought down upon myself

By making that joke

My daddy told me

You won't believe this

My daddy told me

This is back when the world was the way it should be

And you could spank your child

Not beat your child

Spank your child

This little boy was running from his daddy in the grocery store

And my daddy

The most gentle man I've ever met

He leans down and goes boy

I don't know if he knows my name

To this day

Boy what daddy

Boy

What daddy

He does this every time he gets my attention

He goes if you ever run from a woman

You might just keep on running

Until you join the circus

So until I was like 15 years old

I swear to god

My thought was wonder which run

Where do they place the runaways

Who's the trapeze artist

Who's the clan

How do you get selected

Dad said it so

I wasn't even in trouble at the time

So he wasn't like he was terrorizing me

I was just like wow I didn't

I didn't know

I know that was the only other option

Coming home wanting

I learned very early on when Noah

I could not say I want to say it

Because it's got said to me so many times

In my lifetime it's a habit

Every night

We go put Noah to bed

I go sleep tight and nothing else

Because I used to say sleep tight

Don't let the bed bugs bite

Why are you

Why are you trying to calm that situation

Why are you neglectful parents

Putting bugs in my bed

Let's talk a little bit

About

Education and literature

I can ask you when we first start

Working together and talking together

How insecure a lot of that made me

Because I didn't have that education

The longer I've been involved

With the literary world over the last couple of years

First of all there's just so much corruption

Yep

Why

I don't know why it's

Surprising me comedies that way

TV's that way entertainment

Is that way the corrupt

Move in and take over

Right

But

It seems to me from my reading

From what I've understand

Is that a MFA isn't that helpful

For a writer

I mean it can be but it's

You're nailing it

This is the way I feel about it

When my first book came out

I went from being a hermit

When I went to my first reading

This is how smart I am

I'm walking to my very first reading

With my box of books and it hits me

Shit I've never read

In front of anybody in my life

Probably should have thought about that before right now

But what saved me was that I don't know

How I need to do this it's divine

When I write anything I will walk around

And read it out loud

Because especially in poetry

A couple of words together may sound real cool

But when you try to say them out loud

You'll trip over them every single time

I've done a lot of that reading out loud

As a writer lately

Right

Yeah dude I just

I used to think it was just a poetry thing

I was being a snob

Christopher Swan

Is one of my favorite novelists who says this

I didn't know they did this but he also

Reads his stuff for music

Because when you listen to other people talk

The accents things that you

I never thought about it I was like

That's true

I have read the stuff out loud

And my publisher gave me this

Beautiful piece of advice

That said Cliff

Read

Your poetry

This

I don't think that slow

I don't sleep that slow bro

That was painful to listen to

But if he wasn't right I walked in

And then I walked into the bookstore

And I walked in the door and it was packed

And my first thought was not

Oh no I thought

But sweet

It's not the right night

I'm not in the wrong night

So I turned around and just started to walk out

The owner comes tearing out and I was like

Cliff where are you going

Cliff these are all for you

I was like I don't know this many people

I thought my mom would be there

My dad

My daddy would show up late

Because I'm not being modest

Nobody knew me as a poet

So that

Will wrinkle a few

Or furrow a few brows of people out there

When we talk about MFA programs

I do not think

That they are trying to be

Maliciously fraudulent

When they say

Because you can learn

The nuts and bolts

Things maybe you didn't know before

Poets you'd never run into before

They have their residencies

They have all these huge names come in

That may be your Europe

But the hard work that you put into the group

And to put into the class

If you go into an MFA program

Going I really want to fine tune my car

Alright

I can see that

If you think I'm going to be a writer

I'm going to be a poet

So I'm going to go join this MFA program

I always have to put this caveat in there

So people don't get butt hurt and cry

There may be a chance that you make it through

That way

But the people who thrive with the MFA program

Are the ones that want to

Super up that

69 and follow

You've already got the machine together

You've been doing it forever

You've been loving to do it

When I found

I went to one year

Of an MFA program

The first time I had ever been

Trained

By that time I had

My first two books out

One of them

One of them nominated for a Pulitzer

Which my girlfriend had to tell me about

And I thought she'd been drinking too early in the day

But

That was true

And

When I sat down

To step aside

When I really looked up and saw that I was on that list

Jordan Peele

Is a writer that says

When you write, if you're not having fun

You're not doing it right

Yeah

You have to

When I sat down to write poetry

I panicked

Cried like a girl, peed myself a little bit

And then I went to reach for the only

Poetry book that I owned

That was probably an anthology from college

And something snatched my arm and brought it back

And said no

Because you're going to inadvertently

Sound like those people

What am I going to do?

When I was in my early teens

I realized as badly as I wanted to be a musician

I would never be able to beg out of a piano

Or a guitar

For me

And I remember that moment, that young going

Why is this not destroying me?

Why am I not just like

30-some-odd years later

It just hits me that same divine voice

Make this music

And poetry

And music are so closely

Related that I almost want to

Make a southern joke about it

But I won't

I baked the joke the other day

That the only poetry that was respected

Where I grew up had a banjo behind it

Right

Not that I don't love poetry with a banjo behind it

I'm a sucker for a banjo

Me too

You go see Billy Strings and you'll swear to God Jesus plays the banjo

Yeah buddy

I always

I remember the first time

What's that girl singer by Taylor Swift

Oh yeah, she's amazing

The first time that girl came out on the Grammys

It was years ago

We were watching TV and the Grammys came on

And this little blonde headed girl

Comes out playing lead guitar

On a banjo, on an electric banjo

And I was like

Who in the hell taught this kid music

Like this is

This is a musician

Exactly

And I know a lot of people love to hate on her

But that girl

That's why they hate on her

I mean she's so good at it

And she's so humble and that's really who she is

Because I was one of those people that was like

But then you really listen to it

And you get into the story

And the ones who are humble about it

Like when I read your book

That we're publishing this fall

I remember when I sat down

It got really serious

And I got

My first book contract

I remember where I was sitting

When I thought

If I'm going to write this book

It's going to be bare bones honest

I'm not going to be cryptic

Because I've gone to poetry readings before

And if you were like, hey Cliff, you're going to go to poetry reading

I'd go, fuck you Longmire

I thought we were friends, no I'm not hanging out with you anymore

They suck

And I'm not trying to be Captain Cool

It's just that they do have this stereotype

I was often told

And the only

Help

Book to writing I've ever found useful

And it's only one page out of it

It's Stephen King's on

Writing

Where he says cut it in half

And of course now he wrote The Stand

And Tommy Knockers

And all those other gargantuan

Books

That's genius though

At least he broke that into bite-sized pieces for us

You know what I'm saying

Did you ever watch The Stand

I read The Stand, like no I couldn't stand for it

I'm like some of his darker stuff

He wrote under a pseudo name

Richard Bachman

He got really wild

And out there with some of that stuff

Is that what the cell is under

The cell phone that gives everybody

The weird signal that makes everybody

Program and go nutty

He broke that

But that came later

Yeah, you're right

With John Cusack in it

I never saw the flick

I just read it

Don't watch it

I had this stupid maintenance

Contract

Up on Lake Conroe

And it was wintertime

Too cold to go outside and do anything

All our stuff was mostly summer stuff

Cause that's when all the people were there

So in the wintertime

I was holed up in this little shack

The little maintenance shack

And there was this bookstore

On the way to work called Novel Idea

And it was a resale bookstore

And this lady in there

Found out that I like Stephen King

So every week when I came in

She would have more Stephen King and Dean Coontz

For me

And I won't watch horror movies

I won't watch horror movies at all

I love reading

And so she would let me trade my old books

And give me credit on them

I don't know how she was making a profit

To be honest with you

She went out of business

I sat there that whole winter

And I read everything

By Stephen King and Dean Coontz

I could get my hands on

I holed up in that little maintenance shack

That I even read on writing

Because I thought that would be another great Stephen King book

And then I was like, what the hell is this

That's the

The biggest snake oil

Trade is the How To Write book

When people want to rage

Against me on these things

I'm not being an ass

So what have you had published?

I'm not trying to be mean

You either have it or you don't

I don't believe

And I don't do like

I gotta sit down at 8 o'clock every day

And do it to this and then stuff

I don't work that way

Running the magazine, running the podcast

Being autistic

I also run

The Blue Mountain Review

Which is a huge literary magazine

And I've talked to you guys a little bit about it in the past

I don't know why I keep looking around the camera

To talk to them

Because you're too sexy to look at it one time

It's not man, it's like looking at the sun

You just kind of, you know

But we were talking a little bit about the MFA's earlier

Oh yes, yes, yes, yes

I was thinking

I've been doing a bunch of reading lately

About older voices

And stuff that come around

And like the oral tradition

The stories passed around the fire

Passed around the porches

That's been around before literature

And there were several great poets

That said they wrote and dialect

Because I think it's

Wadsworth, Wordsworth, whatever his name is

Wordsworth, yep

He says that he wrote in the dialect

Because that's the way the music and the language

Is supposed to be spoken in

And that's the way people will hear it better

And you had

Pre-World War II, you had all these great Appalachian

Southern rural voices

Who were a part of the literature scene

Then post-World War II

The MFA program starts in Iowa

Yep

And after that it sort of shifts into

Well, writers are the people who can afford

To go to school and get this

Not that the MFA taught them how to write

But it gave them, I guess,

Credibility or credit, you know

Yeah, that's the best way to say it

That's the best way to say it

But I wonder if the MFA doesn't

Nowadays

The current status

Of what MFA and what writing programs do

Right

Every time I've workshopped anything

I've written, they're like, oh, you should change this

You should soften this

I don't think they're sharp

I think they're creating

Beautiful, technically proficient

Writing

But they don't bleed on the paper

They don't have no good

They're writing fairy tales

For adults

And they're the same people mad at AI

And I'm like, you're doing the same thing

The same thing

Honestly, like

It's a

MFA, like again, what I found

You can't say this without pissing people off

Is that what I did find

And again, it goes down to the

Intrinsic, the innate

Part of you that's from that other place

That does this, where I would learn

The technical terms for these

Writing techniques

And I'd go, shit, I didn't know that had a name

Like, I just, I already did it

Like, I just, it was part of my

Ambic Pentameter

When I learned out, when I learned what it was

I was like, oh, that's what I've been

Doing that anyway

But you can't say it, it out loud

Because the truth is

You're gonna have, and I've seen this

We'll say 20 students

Into the class, you're gonna have three

To have the fire

And you're gonna watch those

You're gonna watch those 17 others

Others that don't have it

Just devour those three

That are just full of like

They hate them

I think that's anything

Where you got natural talent

Like what you were talking about, natural talent

Versus mechanical practice talent

I have met people who are stand-up

Comics who know the

Science of stand-up comedy

And can

Execute it so well

Timing

They can do the job

But then

There's just something missing

And then on this other side of the coin

I have met people

Who are so naturally funny on stage

Not, not, everybody

Can be naturally funny in conversation

With your friends and all that

Where there's context established

But I have met people that can go up on stage

And are just naturally funny

They can naturally hold a crowd's attention

They can naturally tell a story in a way

That makes you want to listen to it

But they never

Learned any of the mechanical

Where

What I see is

Like over the years

A lot of them don't advance

Because they don't learn the mechanical side of it

These don't advance

Because they just don't have the natural

Who are diddy

And I see a lot of the natural ones burn out

With drugs and alcohol

Because they think that fuels it

It's easy to get into that way of thinking

I was that way for a while

I thought I couldn't hide

If I didn't have a glass of Williams in my hand

Me too

And I found I can write

With other things in my hand

Me too, yeah

Pins and all kinds of very useful

Legal things

It's true

That's brilliant

What you just said

You got to meet in the middle

And you have to love what you're doing

And have the technical skill

To see what you're doing to go

Okay

This is why I say go to open mics

Is that you say, okay, that worked

That did not work

That was horrible

I'm going to incorporate that

Into what I'm doing

It's incorporated

Because you can't be a comedian

Unless you're funny

You can't learn to be funny

And it's painful to be around people

Like that guy in a movie theater

That wants to say that funny line

Through the whole movie

That's why I buy Starburst

I can tell those things like Ninja Turtles

Shut them up real quick

There's nothing worse

Nowadays

Because

Occasionally

I'll get put in a situation

Where I'm at an event, the network

And I'm around

And I refer to them as normies

Yeah, me too

People that just go about their life

And have their own thing going on

And

I'll be stuck in a room full of normies

And there's always one of them that wants to be funny

And he'll find out

That I'm a comedian

And try to get me in a corridor

And tell me all this

And I'm like, just don't do this

I don't think about funny this way

I don't put effort into it

I do this for a living

I don't put effort into it

But I don't put that kind of effort into it

I don't need somebody else to tell me I'm funny

That's the thing

That's the key to good art

Is that you don't...

Rick Rubin says the audience

Comes last

People love fashion

I love that

It's because he's successful and he's laid back

And the same thing with

David Bowie said the same thing

The worst thing you can do is play for the audience

They're trying to...

Well, they like that

Let's do this again

Because with me, my first book was two books

In one, Worldly Metaphysics

And then the next one was called

Athena Departs

And my biggest fear

In music, the sophomore fear

Is that your second album will flunk

And literature

It's the fear that it'll sound like

Which you wrote before

And

What I found out was that

The way I write

I never feel like

I gotta do it

Because that desperation will push people away

Is that it gave me

It gave me time to live life

And grow

And my first book

Especially my first book

You see where I just have fun and play around

And say I wonder what this looks like

And you see the kid in me

Playing around with these different things

Athena

I deal with some

A little heavier

Topics

Well, Athena, you're diving in

Like stuff from your childhood

Yeah, your parents and

Oh, yeah

You know

I made the joke a couple of times

Like, I remember when I was 20

I kind of wanted to be a writer

And I could write really pretty words

I could pick the most beautiful...

I'm a good work choice

I could pick beautiful words

I love the Southern Gothic language

I would rather call

Something I hate than a haunting

I could pick the language

Get that blue roof baby

I'll talk about Foxfire and St. Elmo's Fire

All day long with you

But I could pick the language

But I had nothing to say

Damn thing to say

I got some shit to say

I've got some stories

I've got some life lived

And I think it's just

A necessity

The evolution of the writer

Is that you have to go out and look

You know, I was reading about James Lee Burke

Who's one of my favorite fiction writers

And you look at

His whole time through his 20s and 30s

He did every job he could do

He worked in oil field work

He was a social worker

He did everything he could do

To get out there and get those stories

And get that life lived

And I think that's the smartest thing

If I met somebody in their 20s

Like I want to be a writer

Here's what you do

Go work 10 of the shittiest jobs you can find

Go work on an offshore platform

Get you a job at the prison

Just

10 of the worst jobs

Go see the worst of society

Go be a social worker

Go see the absolute

Epitome of the

The most awful things that life

And the machinations a band can create

And then when you're done

Doing all that, write your book

Cause it's gonna be a good one

Ernest Hemingway said

That the first be a great writer

You have to hurt like hell

And of course he said it

And I sent it that short

Exactly, I was just about to say the same thing

Baby shoes for sale

Never worn, that was his other one

No other explanation

Digest it

If you don't get it, it's not for you

It's just like the two camps

Faulkner and Hemingway

Faulkner again, it's music to me

An old man in the sea

From Hemingway I can do

But in Hemingway's books

Where they couldn't say swear words

So they had to say explicative, explicative

Explicative every time

But I learned

I learned a great deal from them

And

With pros

Between those two cats

And

Yadora Wilty and Flannery O'Connor

Okay, so I like Flannery

I just, I read one of her books a long time ago

And I just started kind of diving back into her

A good man is hard to find

Faulkner and Burke taught me how to tell stories

Yes

Jerry Flower taught me how to tell stories

Like I will finally say

Who my influences, who I learned

Sitting on the back porch with my dad

And his brothers while they all told the same story

Every week

And it was just who could one up each other

Every week, that taught me how to tell stories

And keep a crowd's attention

But

Faulkner taught me how to put stories together

How that I could jump timelines

And I didn't have to just go

And then this happened and

And it didn't sound like a Toby Keith movie

Sorry, Broken Bridges

Was the worst thing I've ever watched in my life

Honestly, I wanted my money back

It was like a fourth grade

And then this happened

And I like jumping timelines

I like that stream of conscience

I always thought, I always think of him

Always think of him as the first Tarantino

Like the way that, you know what I'm saying

They both use language so much

You know, I love the fact that

Faulkner, the way what I loved about him was that

I didn't like

The writer saying with the omniscient

God boys

Then he thought this

I like dialogue because that's how we learned it

Let you know what they think

Who's your favorite

As I lay dying

Who's your favorite character?

This is always something I like about him

Oh, man, was it?

Darren did

That was his name

He said the barn on fire

The one that ends up crazy it did

The one we think is crazy at the end

I can't remember his name

I've read it a million times

I can't tell you his name

That's one of my favorite ones about him

He's obviously the most intelligent one

In the book

And he has the best perspective

That's interesting

But also they accuse him of being crazy

I don't think he's really crazy

No, he's not

I think he's laughing at the absurdity of it all

When they haul him off

I tried to give her one last chance at decency

And end this

Terrible awful pilgrimage

That has just lost all of her dignity

I tried to do this thing

And it didn't work

So I'm just going to laugh at it while they haul me off

It's a

I felt the same way

I never thought for a second he was insane

I felt that the world around him

Is built in a certain way

That his truth

True truth

Made them uncomfortable

Therefore made him insane

And he laughed at the fact that

To me again

When interviews like this go like this

You can't plan them

They sync together

Now they've got him in the back of that ambulance

And they're taking him away from this crazy bullshit

And he's just laughing

What can you do?

To me it's not crazy laughing

But to them

I told you

He's crazy

We're listening to jokes

You dumb

Hairless monkeys

And you can't

To me that's the true gift of writing

Is the double

I won't say double on tondra

The layer on top

That anybody can get

And then the words and phrases

You use beneath it

The surface in the well

Always

You get the cold water

You know what I mean

I don't really like

As I lay dying

There's one part of that book

That really effs me up

And it's when cash is out there

Cutting the boards while she's dying

And she's hearing him

Cut the boards for her coffin

And Faulkner is so good at making it

It's not cruel

It's not cruel, it just is

It's comforting

Cash is who I identify with

Most in that book

Because he just knows how to love his mama with service

I'm going to make her the best coffin

I know how to make her

And I'm going to make it right outside her window

So she knows I'm the one that's making it

I'm doing it, exactly

I was in a class full of people

God bless

You majored in English

So you majored in your native tongue

But I know I'm being a snob right now

I know I am

They asked me

I got mine in history, political science

And theology

And you're a writer? Yeah

Because I wanted to have a job and be a writer too

That's another thing let me throw in real quick

That some of the biggest lies

Are told within the

Writing vocation

One, you'll never make money doing this

If you said that in any other job

On the planet, well screw that

I'll go do something else, but in art

We just accept it and that's bullshit

It's bullshit, it's absolute bullshit

Find you a job that you love to do

That's what feeds my writing

I love teaching

If you put me against the wall and said

You have to teach or write, I couldn't choose

They feed each other

So this whole lie about

Unless all you do is write

You're not a writer, that's garbage

Now when you talked about workshops

Before

You have to be ruthless

About who you let into that group

And so many are not

Because they just have to be nice

Because we artists are just

Feeling little people

And you let that one person

Open Ike scene has gone that way in comedy

And it's just, well you don't want to tell anybody

They're screwing up because we're all

Supporting each other here, I'm like

No, somebody needs to stand in the back of the room

You went over time asshole

You'll never be opposed to a professional club

They do that at writings

Fiction writers especially

And I wrote

I created one

I guess I come from

236 years of

Hardworking successful business people

Because they see

What is a hole that needs to be filled

How something can be done better

And so when I did

Collective sessions and these fiction

Muff

I let them get over two minutes

And I'll get out one of those

Air horns to go

And just scare these shit

That alone will bring people to my shit

Because I just don't

I don't feel bad about it

They'll scowl at me

But this is about my years of Vietnam

And I feel like I'm there now

But not know what you think

I feel like I'm in a war right now

One of my buddies

In stand-up

Posted something on Facebook the other day

And it was from a comedy workshop

That I was helping teach like five or six years ago

Right

And I got frustrated with somebody

And I guess at one point I said

You're all whores

And if you're a whore in better places

You gotta act right

He posted that on Facebook the other day

And I said

Honestly I still stand by it

I'm about to go horror in 62 cities

Because I know how to act right

And that's why you get those jobs

There's a level of

Professionalism

I think you're right because I only really

Me personally and that's all I know

Is my perspective is when it comes to writing

I like workshopping with you

I like workshopping with Adam

And occasionally I like workshopping

With my buddy Slade

But there have been no other people on this planet

That I enjoy workshopping and writing with

But it's because I'll send you things

And you'll be like

What the hell is that even about?

And I'm like yeah you're right

Yeah

And you see it immediately in people

What you said about grammar

Grammar is taught

In high school elementary

By saying

Why is the period there that's just the way it is

That makes you want to get up and stab people

In the face of the fork

That's not an answer

But why?

So when I became a teacher later teaching

A college level grammar

It's about sound

American flag is

Red, white

And blue

You hear the commas in between

And you see these lights come on

Because

So many people especially in poetry

God bless them

God bless their little hearts

They think that they don't have to follow the same rules

As prose

And that's not the truth

E. E. Cummings did it right

But if you want people to understand

And get into poetry

You have to give them the same road markers

That you give those that read prose

They have to know how to read it

Grammar messed with me

Because honestly

I don't think I read it

One of the things

This is an example

I don't need a period to tell me

When the sentence ends because I know where the sentence ends

In my mind when I'm reading it

Even if somebody else wrote it

Like I can read it and somebody will leave a text

You know a message on Facebook

And people are like oh I had a stroke read that

I'm like well I didn't maybe you're just weak minded

You know what I was trying to do

Was say it

People got mad at him because

He didn't put his dialogue in

What do you call them little winky fingers

Speak your marks

He didn't put his dialogue

In quotations

And so people

People are like oh it just frustrates me

To read his dialogue and I'm like man

I never even noticed that

I read four of his books before

Somebody else pointed that out to me and I was like

I'll be damned you're right he don't

But you didn't know who was speaking

You didn't know

I love you burning this up

Because

When you were

Truly a genius at something

There are people who want to be

Like on Facebook

Where you see somebody write poet Bill Smith

And I'm like I'm pretty sure your mom didn't name you

Poet stop it stop it

Then you have those who have talent

Stop it stop

Give me your number I'll call it right now

Then you have those who are

These are no judgments

Then you have those who

Can have more aptitude for it

They didn't like to write but they see it more as a hobby

And a reader and then you have those who are

Good at it but then you have those at the tip

That like what you were saying

And I know exactly what you're talking about

With Corbin McCarthy is that you get lost

In that thing and it

He changes the tone

He does the same thing

Without the speaking march

He changes the tone

You know it's dialogue

But 98

But 50%

66% of the people are not going to get that

And that's okay

I think we need to stop teaching grammar

And start teaching reading

For all the English classes

That's the smartest thing I've ever heard

Let's have four different

Reading comprehension classes

That's the smartest thing I've ever fucking heard

If you taught reading first

And then added in the mechanics

Then that would make way more sense

Then giving them all the parts

And then saying now make me a card

Because my whole job is communication

With the outside world

And the masses

And it baffles

I will post something that I'll go back

And reread it and make sure the intent is there

And what I said was all there

Or even if it's a spoken word video

And

I put the captions right on the screen

So you can read what I'm saying

And people will come back and argue things

I never said or come back and argue things that

That are the opposite of what was said

100% of the time

And it blows my mind

What percentage of the population

Sucking up our air and hanging out around us

Can't read

Have no reading comprehension

Just the most basic of reading comprehension

And the ability to

We're on the same wavelength

This is where

In the last 10 years

I come from some

238 years I couldn't find

Where was my business thing

And then my first book came out

And I went to my first seminar

And I realized how many

If not all

Writers

Have zero business sense

Zero

None

To step back and say

Alright

We need to put a rubric on this

Because art is not

And I will fist fight over this

It is not subjective

It is objective

I truly believe that we can take people from all over the world

Different cultures, put them in a museum

And we would all

Generally say that's amazing

I can see why people love that

And that's garbage

I truly believe it

I hear that argument a lot

About the subjective verses

And just like you were saying

My first foray into the arts

Like in the stand-up comic

Probably the first decade and a half of my career

I thought the same thing

You're not supposed to make money at this

This is just something you're doing

To get it out of you and do it

If you get lucky

Make some money at it

You know, when I came back to it

I had owned my own business for

Four or five years and I had a different

Now I'm very

These days I'm like

This is a for-profit business

I appreciate it, I love doing it

I love doing it

But it is for-profit

I'm not going to a place where I can't sell tickets

I just heard it in your voice

We still feel a little guilty by saying

Going to work, but I love it

And it's one of the reasons

Why I started this other collective experience

Is to gather folks together

Because I found so few

And like I said at the top

People like to clip your bragging on yourself

None of my books have been out of print

So suck it

You have it in you

But you have to keep it going

You have to surround yourself with the best

Or better

And that's where the company came from

They all seed it, just like you said

When you went out and you do your business

You learn the mechanics

And again, with the magazine

Doing interviews that way

Fitting different pieces together

You have to look at all of it

Journalism and newspaper writing

Is some of the most brilliant writing you'll ever read

Because you have to put in a very small

Space

Words that PhD candidates can read

And so can third graders

If you really want to see

And Terry Kay was the one

That suggested that to me

And I always feel like I'm name dropping

When people go back and say

Who was your first editor?

And I said Larry Fagan

People lose their mind

That was the guy who worked with Ginsberg

To write Howell

And if you ask me how did y'all get together

I have to say God

For me anyway

Because there's no way

When the book came out

My priest says I talk in circle eights

When the avid bookshop

And there was everybody there

And the UGA

Newspaper had just happened

To interview me two weeks before

And then another big interviewer

Was from Athens, heard about me

And there just aren't many

And I'll say it

Poets from Athens, they're not full of agenda

And hate

And hearing my story

It wasn't an accident

I walked in and I sat down

And I said my name is

Clifford Brooks

Because I'm terrible with names

If you call me Charles, you're trying to get money from me

If you call me Clifford

From writing, if you call me Cliff

We homies

And so I'm like I'm Clifford Brooks

Poetry, this is two books in one

And

I just slow down

And when you slow down

You're able to change your new ones

Your tone and not read it the same way

And then put some theatrics in there

And tell some stories

First time I got people to laugh at a poetry reading

They thought they did something wrong

They're like oh!

No, you want them to be happy

You want to break that

Bust their guts

That's what I'm saying

People

They get it twisted

Just going back to what you were saying

After

You know

Like Woody Guthrie for World War II

To me that

It's all kind of poetry

That traveled on the back of trains

And then after World War II

We were now number one in the world

Because Japan wouldn't believe us

And we said we have two bombs

And we're going to kiss you with them if you don't stop

And they got French gifts twice

So after that

Everything became mechanized

Everything you said

I actually have a book that's really neat

That was published right after World War II

That was basically the first GED

And

It's really cool to have

And it would teach you the basics

When the universities blew up again

You have this absolutely right

One of the first things they did

To bring in some extra money

Was to say a master of fine arts

I'm not going to tell you what daddy called it

He said what does NFA mean

And I told him

He was non-plus

But I'll tell you off air

My favorite word

My second one is directly

Like Cliff, when are you going to be here?

Don't be right now

People ask me if Rachel laughs all the time

When we're home, I'm like no, most of the time

It's non-plus

Dude

When I think

She has the best sense of humor

She's like

I called you yesterday for something very important

And we got happy through the conversation

You said you wanted ice cream

And apparently the rest of the day was

Devoted to that

And I'm like

I'm sorry miss Rachel

I won't do it again

But it was good ass ice cream

I ate all of it

I had to

I ate it with a shovel

It's a job

You can also

Have another job that you love

That you

I never loved one as much as this

I never loved one as much as stand up

I never loved one as much as

Express myself in creating things

The writing thing I thought was above my station

And then I stumbled

Found couple years ago it was not

We're going to have to get out of here

But I want you

To give them a little breakdown

Because I'm really excited about your new book

Blue Crawl

And I want you to just give a little breakdown

Because it's a cowboy

It's a western

But it's almost poetry

Like you're writing full prose

It's

Tell them about Blue Crawlford

This fall

Newest selected collection of poetry called

Orpheus Remains comes out

Next summer

Two

Huge publishers

That are now starting to feel like a gang war

But I'm thinking about

I've got about 20% of Blue Crawlford

The salvation of cowboy Blue Crawlford

Just like you said earlier about not having enough mileage

To write the story you wanted to

They came to me when I was 20 years old

Can you make this up? I mean I could

20 years old

I knew what it was about

I knew the story, journey

But I knew I didn't have the mileage

To write the story that needed to

Johnny Wayne Shepard

The guitar player from the 90s

Kenny Wayne Shepard

Here's the bluesman

He goes no no no, I'm a guitar player

I'm not old enough to be a blues player

It's the same kind of thing

That's one of my favorite

And so

I love westerns, always have

I'm a huge fan of mythology

Christian Overtones

Mixing all of that together

Without being confusing

And it's a western set today

Across the American south

Where the main

The protagonist Blue Crawlford

Is trying to regain his salvation

Which he thinks is through the woman

That's been kidnapped

And the two teams and the personalities

And the different parts of my life

Everything that I write is an autobiography

If you're a chick and you want to go on a date with me

Go buy one of my books

And read them all

And don't be surprised to act like that

But Blue Crawlford is

I love it because it gives back to pros

And I'm treating

The epic poetry pieces

As like cowboy songs

And again

It's

It's fun

It's a story that I've never done before

With characters and I'll go and look at books myself

I am psyched about it

I'm glad you're our man

I love a good western, thank you so much

For coming and visiting my friend

Hanging out in the wrecking yard for a little bit

I love you too, bub

I'm really excited about the work we're about to do

It's gonna be good dude

In a week's time I promise

Alright brother, I'll talk to you soon

Alright cousin, be good

That

Charles Clifford Brooks III

I just

Go ahead and tell you if some of that didn't match up

To what I was saying just now

My face didn't look like it's matched up

It's because my camera died before the interview was over

I went out there with half a battery

Which

I should have known better if I was gonna be talking to Clifford

Because every time me and him get on the phone

We end up on the phone for about two or three hours

And I hate talking on the phone

But I enjoy talking to Clifford

And I want you guys to get to know him a little bit

You're gonna be seeing more

Of some of his work and stuff like that

Here with the Wrecking Yard

Of course he's publishing my book

The Wrecking Yard

And he's agreed to take on my poetry book

Or he's enthusiastic

To take on my poetry book

It's called What's Sacred Games

And that's based

On a quote from Nietzsche

And

He wants to be published

The first New Wally Bottoms

Novel

Which I plan on calling

The Quiet Life of Deborah Black

Which would be the whole

First season of New Wally Bottoms

But I've added

Close to 30,000 words to it now

That also tells

A little more about Tiffany

And Tony's romance

That they had after Tony got released from prison

I'm wildly excited

For everything we're doing

Well

This has been a little bit of a long episode

Let's jump off into

The Wally Bottoms texts

How about

We've returned

To The Wally Bottoms texts

Elana watched her car

All closely

The morning sun added a sparkle

To deep emerald green of her eyes

She knew her husband

Probably better than he knew himself

She could visibly see the gears turning

In his head in the way his mouth moved

While he stared out across the neighborhood

He was having

Some kind of conversation

With someone in his head

She poured him coffee

In the weathered old mugs

Before joining him on the porch

He smiled the way he did

Every time he had looked at her

Since they first met

Carl's whole face cracked open

When Elana was near

Penny for your thoughts soldier

Carl seen your grand even bigger

As he took the mug she offered

You might have to show me that penny first

Elana slapped him

On the shoulder before leaning

Into kissing

Carl Haynes I've watched you talk to yourself

Ever since some boys got here

I know you're up to something

And you're going to tell me

If you want lunch

Carl laughed his deep, wheezy laugh

It's been a few days since all the excitement

And she was right

Carl Senior always had plenty

Sure I've been thinking

You know that Dusty's a pretty good mechanic

And I taught Tony everything I know

We still own that shop on main

And nobody's even using it no more

There it was

Elana laughed

Her husband still managed to surprise her

Every once in a while

Baby are you trying to trap our grandson

Here

I just thought

Because if you are

I'm 100% on board

I don't want him back off down there

Carl relax

So we're teaming up always

What you bringing to the team

Is Tony playful

The same thing that kept you in this house

Elana popped off

Carl's eyebrows raised

Carl Haynes you're a mess

You know damn well I meant my cooking

They both laughed

She sipped from her coffee

The caffeine opening up the day's possibilities

Baby it's not a terrible idea

There's enough bitties between here and Henderson

To keep two young men busy

Keeping clunkers on the road

Sister Green from church still calls

Once a week hoping you got time

To look at that old Lincoln to hers

She looked over at Carl

But he was back in gear

With that conversation in his own head

Until he noticed her staring at him intently

He looked sad

When he looked back at him

I just don't know that grand baby

Mine will ever want to be here for the long

Between the welcome committee

And our son

He's got every reason in the world to stay gone

Elana looked out at the neighborhood

Inside deep

Baby you let me work on our son

And him just talk the tone

See if the idea of interest

Him or Dusty

He seems different here at this time

He may surprise us both

Carl leaned over and kissed her hand

On the coffee mug before leaning back

In his chair and drinking from

His own cup

Well I don't know what I'd do without you

Elana grinned

Happy to see the smile back on his face

Carl Haynes

You'd be an absolute mess without me

The laughter that

Filled their porch since the 60's

Rose again startling the

Cardinal on the steps

It scarlet wings a flash of color

As it frantically tried to escape

What in its mind was surely

Danger

Dusty was already up

Sitting at the small table in the kitchen

Of Tony's dad's house

Tony splashed some water on his face

The sharp cold waking him before drying off

With a hand towel and walking into the kitchen

Dusty was staring at his phone

On the table before he noticed Tony

Cordell my man

Welcome back to the world of the living

Tony sat at the table

Why ain't you up so early?

One of your women get on your case?

Fred and I Cordell

John at the warehouse called me

To see how we weathered the storm

He said the warehouse ceiling collapsed

And everyone got laid off till they figured out what to do

Wanted to know where to send my check

Tony

Looked out the window before replying

That sucks, brother

Dusty Green

I was looking for a job when I found that one

I've been stacking cash a minute anyways

I got a cushion

Tony chuckle

World can't keep Dusty Beaumont down

Can it?

Dusty's green marble eyes lit up

You know it my man

Hell I'm what they call an unmovable force

Tony laughed for real

This time I believe unstoppable

Is what you're looking for

Unmovable, unstoppable

61 half a dozen another

Well if you got

Time in your unstoppable

Unmovable force schedule I was thinking about

Running the guitar center in Longview

Grabbing some strings for the Martin

Maybe stop at the pick apart and see if I

Can't find a seat for my pickup

That sounds perfect my man

I talked to Tink this morning

He run the door stop off in deep

Water and finally killed it

I told him he could go get the keys

My pickup brought till we get back

Tony stood

And grabbed his keys off the counter

He stood still a minute remembering

How his mom would stand there with the phone

In her ear while she made food

There was

Where on the trim from the dangling

Phone cord sliding back and forth

Against the walnut

That sucks about Tinkers car

That thing was a minute away

From destruction anyhow

I kept it alive for the last year for him

Dusty stood

And walked to the door and noticed Tony was still

Staring off in the kitchen but his eyes seemed

Bacon, you alright Corden?

Yeah man

Let's go over Longview before it gets too hot

Tony started for the door behind

Dusty he turned around to lock the door

And heard Dusty exclaim

I think our plans just got changed Corden

Tony turned to see his grandfather's pickup

Pulling to the drive the old man grinning

Like he found a ten dollar bill in his weedies

Y'all hop in I need to show you something

Tony laughed

Papa we're about to go to Longview

Everybody time for that later this is important

His grandfather's grin told him the old man wasn't giving up

Tony looked at Dusty and shrugged

I think our plans have indeed

Been changed

Dusty was already laughing and walking

To Carl's pickup Tony had never seen

Dusty pay anyone more respect than he had

His papa almost reverent

Towards him and it made him glad

Everyone needed people

Being back here just a short time made

Him realize how much he missed his grandparents

And so Carl

Senior to his credit was in a

Gleeful mood singing a buddy Holly

Song about a gal named Peggy Sue

And peppering his performance with trivia

Facts about Wayland and Buddy

As he drove the boys to the old shop on Main

Tony recognized the place immediately

He'd played as a child there before his papa

Retired and closed the business

What's this papa

Carl senior grinned as he shut the pickup off

You'll see soon enough

He stepped out and hobbled excitedly

Over to the bay door

He fumbled with the lock as the boys

Got out of the pickup

After he got it loose the boys helped him lift the heavy

Bay door

Amber passed by the old

Shop her mom would take her car to

She had been on the phone with AT&T

All morning trying to get Wi-Fi set up

At her grandparents old place

She decided to go visit her lawyer

And business manager Mr. Tilton

And visit a spell with him

He was as much family

To her as anyone she knew and had been

Too long since she got one of his perfect hugs

She almost choked on her coffee

When she saw the scarlet headed man

And his buddy with the old man

She was pretty sure he used to work on her mom's car

Mr. Hanes she thought

She said it out loud before she could

Stop herself. Why is this guy everywhere?

As she drove by

Unnoticed

When the bay door was open

The three men gazed at the mess

The former garage sale entrepreneur

Had left most of his inventory scattered

About the place

Old lady church clothes

In a variety of sizes but mostly big

Hung on rusty spider web

Accented old department store

Steel racks

Cardboard boxes

Desecrated by the heat and humidity

Bulged with unknown home goods

And knickknacks

The air was still and carried the scent

Of parts cleaner and gasoline

Just a little accurate from being closed up

Tony took a step inside

Truthfully lured by the nostalgic scent

Of his childhood

A wolf spider scurried from behind

One of the boxes in search of new hideings

Carl senior walked across the junk

Stroomed landscape to the office door

And flicked on the big overhead lights

The magnetic ballast and the old fluorescence

Hummed and buzzed a few seconds

Before the tombs began glowing

And flickering one at a time

He popped back out of the office

And grinned, what'd you think?

Papal, it looks like a goodwill had a wreck in here

Dusty snickered at Tony's joke

Before Carl senior replied

I know it needs a little spring cleaning

But I was sort of thinking

You two ain't in a hurry

To get back to that toilet bowl

Of the city

You might want to set up shop here

Carl senior was an excellent planner

But his execution lacked finesse

Tony was speechless for a minute

He'd be lying if he said he hadn't had

Some errant thoughts about staying for a while

Dusty spoke first

Set up shop

Carl senior saw his end

Well, you're pretty crackin' jack-and-canon

From what I hear and I gotta mess the tools

I ain't bein' used these days

Plenty of old women in this town

Still call about car repairs

Hell, I was just gonna sell the place

No one wants it

I wasn't even charged, you know, rent

I ain't got no need for extra contracts

And paperwork in my life

I just like to see the place home again

It was Dusty's turn to be speechless

Tony had come back to his senses and looked around

Papal, we don't even know

Carl senior started hobbling

To the back of the shop excitedly

Cuttin' his grandson off

You ain't even seen the best part

I built a whole two bedroom apartment

With a kitchen and a bathroom back here

Before I retired, thinkin' I might talk

Your mamma'll in the movin' here

So I can get more work done

Carl passed thought

Carl paused thoughtfully

Before continuing

She didn't, uh

Well, she wasn't thrilled with the idea

So we didn't do that

It was Tony's turn to laugh

Imagining the dressin' down his mamma'll

Gave Papal for suggesting they live in his shop

Away from her garden and kitchen

Carl senior stepped back over to Tony

Put his hands on his shoulders

I just thought you might want your own spot

You know, uh

Away from

He paused again

And looked away

Away from our house

It's too damn sad

In that house of your daddy keeping your mamma's stuff

Everywhere

When Carl senior looked back at his grandson

His old red-rimmed eyes were glassy

With moisture

He withdrew the gnarled hands that once held

Tools in this very space and stepped away

I just

Hell, I just thought it might be something to think about

Tony realized he'd been holding his breath

Since his mamma's mentioned

And let it out in a slow exhale

Papal

Papal, you don't want me to leave again

Well, of course I don't

Hell, you've been back a week

And I done gotten a fight with the law

And felt more alive than I have in years

I gotta tell you, I miss you

For you to know I miss the shit out of you all the time

Tony looked at Dusty who was staring

Intently at a blue Ford pickup from the

80s off in the quarter

Covered in boxes of junk

He looked around at the shop

And back at his papal who was suddenly

Fixated on cleaning something from his fingers

Nails with his pocket knife

Papal, I'd be glad to help clean the place up

But Dusty's gotta get back to Houston

He lost his job because of the storm

That shook Dusty from his

Preoccupation

Damn, Cordell just put my business on the street, brother

Tony laughed

Sorry, brother

Dusty was serious, so

If you're in a hurry to get back, I get it

But I don't get opportunities like this

What the hell am I in a hurry to get back there

And scrabble for?

Tony was perplexed

You'd want to stay here?

Hell, yeah, my man

I've been itching for something new

It's as good a place to start as anywhere else

Carl Sr. looked hopeful

The same way he did

The first time his rod would dip at a bite

He watched his grandson closely

Tony wondered what he was in a rush

To get back to scrambling for rent money all the time

Playing music and beer joints

Hell, there were beer joints scattered all over

East Texas that needed music

He walked over to Dusty and spoke

You know, we could just run back south

And get our equipment

Maybe set up a makeshift studio

In the extra storeroom off the back

Dusty's eyes

Gleaned under the fluorescence

My man

Tony looked at his grandfather

He could see how much slower he had moved

Since he had been gone

You sure, papa?

The old man

Laughed a sound that could only be pure wheezy joy

Am I sure?

Am I sure? Hell, your mamaw's

Making her chicken and dumplings and cobbler

In case you tried to tell me no

They all roared

At the old man's machinations

Exposed between them

Tony looked at Dusty and said

Alright, papa, I reckon we ought to start cleaning

Place up and checking some of these bulbs

Dusty grand and asked

What's the deal with that forward in the corner?

Carl Sr. looked over at him

And turned to Dusty

That old pickup

Been sitting there since 1987

Blown to my best friend Danny

I got the title for it clean

Wouldn't take much to get it running

I'd just soon sign it over to you

Damn thing ought to be used

Dusty hugged the old man

Before he knew what hit him

Thank you, papa

He turned to Tony

Hell, I can just give Tinker my old truck

Help him out of a bind

Tony laughed again

I guess we're doing this

Hell, yes we are, Cordell

Tune in next week

For more from Diwali Bottoms, Texas

Sorry I got choked up on you on the middle of that one

This episode

10 or 11

Sometimes the right stuff like that

And it's based off

Anyways

Sometimes I'm in those stories

Little places

Woo

Let's do some testimonials

And hit the road

Let's see what we got here

Buddy Matthew Black

At Matthew Black-04

It's on coverage like reaching in

The Crackerjack box

Most of the time you just get the same old bike

But every once in a while you find a prize in there

Grand Tour was that way for me too

I heard it half a million times

I didn't give it any more attention

Than anything else coming across the radio waves

Until I heard Tony Jackson sing it

And give it something that it was missing

You might listen to Tony's version

And not feel a thing

I'll fly away as another one

I've been a bluegrass fan from childhood

And heard that song by countless artists

It was never anything special

Until I heard Randall King cover

He does that song in a nearly unrecognizable way

But it hit me like a freight train

At a time in my life

When I probably needed it too

Just so you know

I'm presumably still me

Thanks for writing Matthew

Appreciate it

I'll fly away as a very special song

It takes me back to church

I'll fly away

I feel like we must have sung it every Sunday

They were singing towards the end of a Bible

So many voices I could still hear

In my head singing that

That are gone

That's a good one

I like sometimes when somebody takes a cover

And does something crazy with it

There's this

Musician I love

His guy's name is Chris Harris

From here in Texas

And

He was in a band

Called Honest Mango

And I used to go watch them

Me and my brother used to go follow them

See them at the bars and stuff

Chris just a hell of a songwriter

But Chris did this way back

I wish I could find a cover of it

Did this really slow cover

Of walk away Renee

Just walk away

It's one of the most haunting

Beautiful things I've ever heard in my life

It's just absolutely gorgeous

And I don't know if a version of it

Exists in where I might have to reach out to old Chris

He lives up in Palestine now I believe

At David Woolsey

About 1990 there was a BW bug

At the drag races at Texas Motorplex

It wasn't a shiny high dollar

Creation like many other cars

Its attraction was that it was a run what you brung car

And the driver seat

Was the back seat

The windshield straddled the wrecking yard

454 that consistently

Ran

12.50 to 13 second quarter mile passes

Those guys have more fun

On less money than anybody else there

I love those kind of

Builds like those kind of crazy

Machines

We used to drag race at Britmoor

And then sometimes down on off west

Timer before all that got shut down

Used to be a

Group of black dudes that would show up

And they had a

Chevy Love Truck

On the trailer

And they had a 454 mounted in the back

Of that Chevy Love Truck

But this wasn't no wrecking yard 454

They had built this thing to the hill

And that Chevy Love Truck

Was a crowd pleaser

By God it was exciting to see that little

Beer can fly that fast

It's a philosophy

Not a party

I love that

What I love about artists covering songs

Is they hit differently the same lyrics

With a different tone and style

I enjoy nine inch nails in Johnny Cash

When I heard he was doing hurt I thought he had gone off the deep end

But his cover hit hard

For me it went from a song of anger

And frustration to sorrow

And acceptance

Those Rick Rubin albums with Johnny Cash

Broke me

I had been a Johnny Cash fan for a number of years

But those albums

Were insane

There's another cover he did

He did that Roberta Flak song

He does another cover

I can't think of it, it's the guy from the

Clash, it's him from the Clash

That do it together

But

I always thought it was really interesting

When they went to film the hurt video

They went to Johnny Cash's house

And

June had passed

And everything was just

Dusty

And a mess in there

And

Johnny got a little worked up

Let me clean the place up

And Rick Rubin's like no man

We leave it as is

We film just like this

And if you watch that video

You can see little spiderwebs on stuff

And it just

He captured something beautiful

About the end of that man's life

With that song

I think I heard Trent Reznor say one time

I ain't even my song no more

That's Johnny's song now

But

Probably my favorite cover on those albums

He does cover

One of my favorite artists is Tom Petty

One of my favorite songwriters over the years

He does a cover

Of I Won't Back Down

And it's slow and his voice is failing

And

It's the same way that

It went from a song of Triumpet

You can stand me up in the gates of hell

And

Then it changed it into this

This man pleading

That I'm still here

And you can still stand me up against the gates of hell

But I won't back down

And it's

That one touches me in my soul

Oh, I love you guys

Man, thank you for listening

Me and Chris, little Clifford

Ramblin

I look forward to the Fathers Day show next weekend

I hope you guys are

Shaping up the ones of you that are

Fathers shaping up for a good Fathers Day

Hope you move around the obstacles

In your life like Teflon

Love y'all

Thank you for sharing your Sunday with me

And

Some extra thoughts and prayers

For me and my family to make this trip

And the Avalanche Treats us well

There and back

I feel pretty good about the

Transmission

I got

About 4,000 miles on it

Shifting and operating good

I think my career as a

Transmission Builder is

0-1

You know, right?

The first time I failed, second time I got it right

So I'm going to retire

Right there

50-50 record

Oh lordy

I don't have no big closing sermon

For you guys today

I just wanted you to hear me and Cliff's words

Maybe

If there's anything to take away from that

Is that nobody can tell you can't do something

They can

And you can believe them

That's easy to do

I believed a lot of people

And they told me I couldn't do something

Too many of them

And

It's always a delight to me

Another person to understand

People told me he couldn't do stuff

And he just went out and done it

And he's very successful at it

And as a result of this man going out

And he wasn't doing what he wanted to do

And being successful at it

I get to go do what I want to do and be successful at it

Gatekeepers are necessary

In some aspects, sure

But

The people that remove the ladder

So nobody else can climb up

They're just the worst kind

And I like people like Clifford

Who get up at the top of the ladder

And turn around and stretch that arm down

Grab a hold of it

Because they want you up that ladder too

That's what I try to do with y'all

I try to stand on the ladder

About halfway

And stretch that arm down

And grab a hold of it

Because I want you at the top of the ladder too

I'm rooting for you

I tell you that every week

And I mean it

I'm going to tell you it until you believe it

I'm rooting for you

I want to see you

Make it to the top of the ladder as well

There's plenty of room

At the top of the ladder

There's a whole plateau up here

Of people just doing good things

At the top of the ladder

I want to see you on top of that plateau

I'm JW

And I love you

0:00

114:17

head unit

Bose system

Diamondback bicycle

Chevrolet Silverado

LTZ Package

subwoofer

Harnesses

Crutchfield

amp

GPS antenna

part numbers

bad ground

GMT-800s

grounding issues

ground cable with battery

frame rail

AC

plugs

seat heater

unplugging

element

fuse

GMT-800

maintenance issues

electronics

Texas Motorplex

run what you brung car

quarter mile passes

454

wrecking yard

About this episode

Original notes