Chasing the NFL dream, life on the Chiefs, and hunting season with James Winchester

Basically, I was a wide receiver with no experience,

and I was a long snapper that wasn't heavy enough.

Had the experience as a long snapper, didn't have the weight.

At that point, you know, went home and was like,

well, what am I gonna do now?

Obviously, gotta get a job.

And so then went into oil and gas and worked for three years

and then ended up signing with the Chiefs in 2015.

When Frank was in Kansas City, we used to always talk

and were like, man, we have guys that are inviting us

to like come hunt our place, come sit in our stand.

And like, there's a time and place for that, right?

Like, man, it's more fun like when we put the work in,

like we know the deer or we go scout the deer.

Welcome to Dealer Art of Office.

We're your hosts.

I'm Frank Zambo.

I'm Jake Burkle.

And we are here to talk to you

about Dealer's interests outside of the office.

Now watch this drive.

Hi.

What's up, everybody?

Welcome back to Dealer Art of Office.

I'm your host, Jake Burkle,

alongside my good buddy, Frank Zambo.

We got a good one for you today.

It's a flu game for me.

All right, I'm a little hoarse.

We're gonna push through, we're gonna power through.

I do have some lozenges in the old auto hauler hoodie here.

We're gonna make it work,

but we have a phenomenal guest on.

A good buddy of yours,

a current member of the Kansas City Chiefs,

three-time Super Bowl champion,

James Winchester on the program.

What's up, buddy?

What's up, guys?

How's it going?

It's going, dude.

How are you?

Man, I'm doing great.

I'm a little beat up here, but we're rolling.

You got a setup behind you.

I like this.

This is a first-class organization by Kansas City

making, you know, getting you set up,

looking, making it work.

That's right.

It's always nice to know a guy that's got a nice office.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Awesome, man.

Well, James, again, thank you for jumping on.

The whole premise of this podcast is like,

we wanna talk about everything outside of the office.

So your office is on a football field,

which we're obviously gonna get into,

but we wanna talk about some of your hobbies

outside of that.

But before we even dive into any of that,

I wanna know who's James Winchester, right?

Tell the people at home, where'd you grow up?

Kinda your path to where you're at now.

Give us the background.

Yeah, so brief overview.

I grew up in Washington, Oklahoma.

So born and raised in Oklahoma City.

We moved to a small town south of Norman,

town of 500, graduated with 52 kids,

class A football.

I was not a highly recruited kid out of high school,

but had a dream to play at the University of Oklahoma.

I was a Sooner growing up.

My dad won a national championship back in 85.

He was a walk-on.

So my older sister walked on to the basketball program.

We just walk-on was kind of in our blood.

That's what we did.

And I just would do anything to be a Sooner.

And so really didn't have much desire

to go play for any D2s around Oklahoma or Texas.

And so decided to walk on in 2008 at Oklahoma.

And I was a small town wide receiver,

thought I was pretty good.

Obviously not a division one talent by any means,

but decided that was the best position

that I had an opportunity to make the squad.

And so showed up in summer of 08 in Norman

for summer workouts, soon found out,

I was gonna have a hard time making the team.

Honestly, just a crazy thing.

The veteran long snapper at the time,

his name was Derek Shaw.

He had partially tore as Achilles tendon.

And so they didn't have a long snapper.

Like they didn't have a backup anyone.

And so I grew up playing quarterback.

And I thought, you know what?

If my dream is to be a Sooner and make this squad,

like this is just a way to, you know,

an avenue to make the team.

And then I can continue to prove myself as a wide out.

And so practiced as a long snapper

at summer of 08, did well enough, wasn't great,

did well enough to get the starting job

for the first three games in 2008.

And then the veteran came back, backed him up,

flash forward, started as a long snapper,

sophomore, junior, senior year earned a scholarship,

continued to play a wide receiver as a reserve role.

Really didn't see much time in the games,

but felt like I was a pretty good athlete.

And that was obviously the dream

to be a playmaker and play wide out.

So came to a crossroads my senior year at Oklahoma

in spring of 2012.

I was basically, I was a wide receiver with no experience.

And I was a long snapper that wasn't heavy enough,

had the experience of a long snapper,

didn't have the weight.

So it was kind of a limbo.

Only opportunity that I got in 2012 coming out

was a rookie minicamp tryout with the Kansas City

Chiefs, which is kind of ironic.

But I was here long enough to have a cup of coffee

three days and they sent me home.

At that point, you know, went home and was like,

well, what am I gonna do now?

Obviously gotta get a job.

And so then went into oil and gas and worked for three years

and then ended up signing with the Chiefs in 2015.

I know we'll get into more of that as we go.

So going back real quick, and you're going to Oklahoma,

so you walk on as a receiver,

you're not long snapper at this point.

What was the oh shit moment

that I'm not gonna be a receiver?

Was there one that you just got,

jammed at the line and knocked on your ass

or anything like that where you're just like,

maybe this receiver thing isn't for me?

Yeah, you know, honestly, there really wasn't.

Obviously it was fighting for playing time.

That was kind of the biggest struggle.

But I felt like I was putting out numbers.

I was frustrated because I wasn't playing,

but at the same time I was only a long snapper.

So I got quite a few talks from Coach Bob Stubbs

about don't take this hit and don't take that hit

because we need you as a long snapper.

So I understood as a head coach

that made sense like protect your long snapper

and we have some other athletes to play wide out.

For me, I saw it the other way.

I was like, you know what?

I'm gonna prove all these dudes wrong

and I'm gonna be the Rudy and gonna come from nothing

and just show these guys and play for,

and get some playing time.

But obviously as a walk on from a small school

with recruiting kids at a school like University of Oklahoma,

tough to break into that.

And so I always wanted to be a sooner.

And so even when I was frustrated and thought,

man, I could go to walk on at Oklahoma State or Texas Tech

and maybe go try to play as a wide out.

I was living my dream as a sooner.

My older sister was there.

My dad was alumni.

And so it just didn't make any sense.

I was like, I don't have it exactly how I want it,

but I am living the dream.

This is what I've always wanted to do.

And then James, for normal positions,

I should say, linebackers, you know,

those kind of get real players.

We get done with college

and you're either drafted, you're undrafted,

and then you're trying out for a squad

or you're drafted and you're on the squad

and then you're trying to earn yourself

the 53-man roster spot.

And then if you don't make it there,

you're kind of bouncing to other teams,

but you're still in it.

If not, you're kind of going out to Europe

or playing Canadian ball.

For you, you've had a very unique way to get in.

And if you could talk about that little bit of a journey

of being a long snapper

and then what you did between like,

because when you're a long snapper

and talk about everybody and you may,

there's only 32 of them in the National Football League.

And once you're in that spot, those guys are pretty much,

they get pretty tight with the special teams coach.

They get tight with the punter and the kicker

and they kind of form their own little crew.

So there's not a lot of turnover in that position.

So it's a very hard position to crack into.

So while you're waiting,

talk a little bit about that journey from college is over

and I'm still trying to make it in the NFL.

Yeah, so I go back to my senior year about,

I don't know, three quarters of the way through the season,

I was staying on the sideline in practice

and our team chaplain, Kent Bulls,

actually walked up to me and he's like,

what are you gonna do next year?

I'm like, I mean, get a job?

I don't know, this was the dream.

I wanted to play four years at Oklahoma

and then I'll figure out life from there.

That was kind of it.

And he's like, you ever thought about the NFL?

And I was like, I thought about it,

but you know, how does that happen?

And he's like, well, you're gonna need an agent.

So he kind of talked to me about,

I could go talk to this person, that person.

And that was kind of the point where I'm like,

okay, maybe I should try for the NFL

and like this could be a reality.

But at that time, I still saw it as like,

I'm gonna go make it as a wide receiver.

I was not thinking the long snapper.

So after I graduated in 2012, gotta go get a job.

And so I had some buddies of mine who were in oil and gas

working as landman.

Obviously you guys, the landman is the show right now.

So everybody's seen that.

That's essentially what I was doing on a smaller level.

Wasn't quite up there with Billy Bob Thornton,

but to that rank,

but I was like the guy underneath Billy Bob.

So, but I had some buddies that were doing it

around Oklahoma and you know, I thought,

you know, if I'm gonna go,

if I'm gonna continue to try to work for this dream

of playing in the NFL,

one, I gotta get bigger.

I gotta get, you know, better at blocking

and I really need to become a better snapper.

And so working a typical nine to five

probably wasn't gonna work out in my favor.

So I'm like, well, so oil and gas work,

it's more of a contracted style work.

So, you know, day rate.

So really if you wanted to take two hours at lunch,

you wanna work in the morning, two hours at lunch,

go work out, snap, you could do that.

And so I saw it as like, okay,

this fits because it'll allow me to go work

at, you know, perfecting my craft and the weight room.

I can still, you know, have a job that pays the bills.

And so I did that for 2012, 13, 14,

had a couple of short stints,

worked out with a couple of teams.

And really those workouts came from,

there's a specialist camp out in Arizona,

a guy by the name of Gary Zoner puts those camps on.

And he's a former NFL coach, special teams coach,

bounce around, Baltimore Cardinals.

And what he did is after he retired,

he started these specialist camps.

So typically every year he has a college combine

and a NFL free agent combine.

And for a guy like me, if you're out on the street,

you really don't have an opportunity to make a squad.

You're not going to the combine,

that's already passed you by.

And so it's a great opportunity to pay a fee

and go, you know, work out.

So usually he would take, you know,

30 snappers, 30 kickers, 30 punters.

And so I attended those camps in 13, 14 and 15

and got looks every year, signed once with the Eagles

in 2013, was there for two weeks, got released.

No one in 14 and then 15 went to the same camp.

And obviously that's where I signed with Kansas City through.

But yeah, for three years, just did a little like ass work

and you know, was just trying to make ends meet.

And you know, I was only about two weeks,

probably two weeks away from actually hanging it up.

My wife and I got married March of 2015.

And I actually, the guy who runs the camp,

coach's honor, he gave me a call

because I hadn't submitted my payment for the camp

because I was really conflicted

about putting that towards my wedding.

You know, weddings are expensive for you guys

that are married out there, obviously.

So you want to try to contribute as much as you can.

And I was conflicted about paying that.

And he called me and said, hey, I didn't see your name

on the list, are you coming back this year

for your third year?

And I'd been training.

So I said, yes, sir, I'll send it in.

And that was the camp that I actually went to

and Brock Alivo, a former assistant specialty coach

in Kansas City, a good friend of Frank and I.

He's the one who saw me out in Arizona

and gave me an invite to come work out.

And then obviously got to have the opportunity

to work out for Coach Tobin signed there.

And then the real journey began.

So it's like, you know, you never have that

like, I've made it moment.

You're like, okay, now I got to like,

I've earned an opportunity.

Now I got to try to prove that I can keep this thing

and, you know, weekend and week out.

Yeah.

And I know I've talked to you

about your story in the past

and it relates a little bit to mine is we always,

you kind of have these moments in your life

where you make decisions, right?

And you kind of reach like almost like a rock bottom

point.

And I had this at one point.

I remember coming out of college thinking,

all right, I'm done with football.

I'm going to focus on physical therapy

or whatever major, you know,

as a health fitness major in college.

And I'm banged up from college, you know,

college football.

I don't think I'm going to have a chance in the NFL.

I don't know if I should try it.

I don't know if I should waste that time

or that money doing it.

And I remember being like one decision away

from not pursuing football anymore.

I know you've reached that point before,

whether it was a person, whether it was like,

coach Gibbs talking to you at some point

about, you know, changing over from wide receiver,

you know, in focusing just on long snapping.

We've all kind of had those moments.

I also had a moment in my career

where I was like, maybe I'm,

I had a really good junior year.

I was banged up my senior year coming out of college.

And I'm like, yeah, I'm probably done.

And I remember this, like it was yesterday.

I was, we were playing against Troy College

in a bowl game.

It was the GMAC Bowl.

It was after the New Year's Bowl.

And you're just playing full, you know,

you're just hoping the football season is about to end.

You know, like your past Christmas,

your past New Year, you know, just get, get me done.

And I remember like three plays into a pass rush.

I overheard like the offensive tackle

on the offensive guard talking.

And they're like, and my confidence wasn't great

at that point.

Like I said, I was banged up,

but I heard them two talk and they said,

and I heard them say, are they as good as they say?

Is he as good as they say?

Like did I just hear that right?

Do these guys like talk about, you know,

cause we sometimes when you go into a game,

you always wonder, you always talk about a guy like,

oh shoot, you know, you better strap your helmet up.

Like this guy's about to bring it.

But I heard those two guys talk about me

and it gave me like a bunch of confidence

for the rest of that game.

I ended up having like three and a half sacks that game.

And I wish I would just go into that game

with that much, you know,

go into every game with that much confidence.

But at that point I realized like,

I could play at the next level.

Did you have any of those moments

or anybody talk to you?

And they just gave you like a new amount of confidence

or you feel like you had that moment

where you're like, all right,

I belong here kind of thing.

Yeah, I mean, you know,

to piggyback on what you were saying,

I had several of those moments,

but one that I can think of is,

you know, I was, I was still continue,

I mean, even after I graduated in 12,

I was still like,

I'm gonna still prove everybody wrong.

I'm gonna be a wide receiver.

I was just naive.

I didn't understand how it worked

that you actually, you know, these guys,

these scouts and guys that are obviously

bringing talent in the NFL,

like you're basing it off of what you see.

And if you don't have reps,

like they ain't going back to practice reps,

they're going to game reps

and see how you perform.

And so, you know, after that rookie mini camp,

you know, I go home and I'm like, you know,

maybe there's another wide receiver

opportunity out there.

And there's a gym in Norman called the health club.

And you mentioned Coach Gary Gibbs.

So Coach Gibbs was the defensive coordinator

for the Oklahoma Sooners back when my dad was in college.

So we knew Coach Gibbs and I thought it was cool.

You know, when I came to Kansas city,

my dad was like, hey, you know,

you got to tell Coach Gibbs high for me.

And dad always, you know,

really respected Coach Gibbs.

And so I, I saw Coach Gibbs up here at that camp.

And then also I saw him when I went back to Norman

and I was working out and, you know,

Coach Gibbs, he likes to hit the elliptical.

So he's over there, like just zoned in

on what he's doing.

Frank obviously knows Coach Gibbs well.

And, you know, so I walk over,

I tell Coach Gibbs, hello.

And this man is just staring straight ahead.

And he had this way of like talking kind of

out the side of his mouth.

Like as he's working, like I'm working,

you're kind of bothering me,

but like I'll talk to you.

Not gonna, but I'm not gonna look you in the eye.

And so I'm just saying hi to him or whatever.

And he just basically said, you know,

I know your, you know, your dream is to,

you know, play wide receiver,

but your ticket in the NFL is to long snap.

And so really it was that moment

that just totally like 180 flip for me.

And I'm like, okay, you know, he's right.

You know, wide receiver is not going to pan out.

I don't have the experience,

but I do have the experience and athleticism.

If I can just gain some weight, you know,

at that point I was like 207 pounds.

And you need to be at least 235, 240

to snap in the league to be able to protect.

And so I'm like, all right, that's what I needed to hear.

So interestingly enough,

the same guy in that gym

who was actually training some other guys

and was a trainer in the gym, I should say,

a guy by the name of Pete Martinelli.

He was the strength coach when Coach Gibbs

was at Oklahoma, my dad was at Oklahoma.

And Coach Pete, man, he like took me under his wing.

He just gave me a full nutrition plan.

And, you know, I would,

at the time I actually broke my foot playing flag football.

And so I would hobble in the weight room

and he would put the weight on for me.

And I mean, there for probably,

I don't know, two months,

month and a half, two months, that's all I did.

So I went from like 205 to 240.

And at that point I started actually

getting looks as a long snapper.

So that was definitely a turning point for me.

Yeah, love that.

Before we move on to having Frankie as a teammate

and kind of I want to just wrap up your journey

into the NFL.

And you mentioned just a few minutes ago that,

you know, there was no real like I made it moment, right?

Like you go, you get signed

and now you're kind of in the thick of it.

11 years later, three Super Bowls,

what's kind of been the, okay, I've done it, right?

Like I'm here, I've made it.

I'm, you know, I'm where I need to be.

Obviously that happened, you know,

before those three Super Bowls,

but what was the moment that was just like,

I belong here, I'm a Kansas City Chief.

I know I can play in this league.

Yeah, I mean, you know, the first couple of years

I think anybody can agree.

Like you look back, you know,

if you're in year eight, 10, 11,

you look back on your first couple of years

and you're like, why did they even keep me around?

Like you just don't feel like you had what it took.

And so you were very thankful for coaches

that believed in you and saw something in you, you know?

And that's kind of how I feel.

I mean, I look back and I'm like, man,

that was kind of rough that rookie season.

Like, you know, I think I'm glad Coach Tobe

decided to roll the dice on me

and saw something in me.

But yeah, I mean, with the success,

I mean, by the grace of God, you know,

like I landed in an amazing organization

that was winning that, you know,

we were winning when I got here.

Frank was here with Alex.

I mean, we kind of turned things around.

And so, you know, I wish I could claim that,

but you know, personally, you just do what you can do,

control what you can control, you know?

And so that's what I try to do every year.

You know, I did, I tried to not look at,

you know, what contract I was on.

If I was on a five year or one year, you know,

I tried to train in the off season.

Like, you know, they were gonna bring

the best long snapper in every year

and just like, I'm gonna beat that dude out.

So, you know, it became really good

at competing against myself,

like holding myself to a higher standard

and saying like, you know, this day or that day,

snapping like it's not good enough.

You never really, I feel like for me,

the way I look at it is like,

you never get to that point where you're good enough.

You're always chasing it

and you're not like anxious that you're not there,

but you're also like, I can be better every single day

because that's the truth, right?

Like we're human beings,

we obviously err as a part of our being.

So you're never gonna be perfect.

That perfect human beings never existed.

So you should try to strive to be your best.

And so that's what I tried to do.

And again, like I said, like, thanks to God,

like landed on an amazing team

with a lot of great teammates and coaches

and you know, coach Reed being here,

it's just been a dream come true,

you know, to have that success as a team.

Yeah.

Talk a little bit about that, James, I can relate.

It's, you get to that level,

you almost got to be your toughest critic of yourself.

When you're watching film,

coaches, he ain't gonna tell me something

I don't already know.

I can watch the film and know I screwed up here, right?

Well, you're a professional.

Yes, so at that point,

and James is doing what he's doing,

he's obviously the best,

he's definitely the best 32 out of the whole country

of what he does.

There's only 32 of them,

but he's one of the top tiered long snappers

because he did get his weight up.

He's a fast guy down the field.

We always say the crowd shouldn't know

the long snapper's name in a way

because that's when I usually screw up,

ball goes over somebody's head right up.

But James is well known in the area

because I'm the one he's big around the community.

But two is he's down there making plays.

He uses that wide receiver speed

to get down there and make plays.

When James first became our long snapper

and we had a very complicated way of blocking punt,

punt return, you know, punt.

But in Dave Tobe, who is our special teams coach,

who's still there is,

we'll go down as the best special teams coach

ever to do it.

He had Devin Hester.

He had, you know,

he was the one that found Tyreek Hill.

And when he brought James in,

you know, there's a lot of like eight box

and seven box in ways that the snappers

included in the protection.

And when James talks about his rookie year,

things moving fast,

like it was tough for him to pick things up.

Luckily he was fast and he could get that ball back

there faster than anybody.

But it took him a little bit to pick it up.

And to talk about experience and how that goes about

is longer you play,

that stuff becomes where you don't have to think anymore.

You're just reacting.

And now that he's in his 11th year,

he might not be as fast as he was that first year.

But now that's exactly,

now he's just reacting to things when they're doing,

you know, he's got his head between his legs,

snapping that ball and there's 360 pound dudes

lined up in his A gaps,

you know, pick twisting and things like that.

And he's able to just kind of fall back

into the right position.

And obviously he's got good guys around him

that are well coached that,

you know, can bail them out of different situations.

But that's what comes with experience and all that.

But yeah.

What I heard from you was like complacency means

you're out of a job.

Yeah. I mean,

they're always trying to bring somebody in there

to replace you every year.

Dave would tow my boy,

my the guy I looked up to like Gary Gibbs,

I looked up to Dave Toba looked up to Kevin Green,

my coaches in the NFL would tell me every year,

I'm bringing in a guy to replace you.

I'm going to draft somebody in the third,

fourth, fifth round and they're going to take your job.

That's why that's why the NFL is what it is.

And you continue to get better.

And then James's situation too is like

in Kansas City,

they've been good for so long that you kind of keep

that same core group of guys together.

When it's working, it's not broken.

There's not a lot of turnover.

Like I, I wasn't the most, the fast,

I was a good culture guy, good locker room guy

and blue guy.

And, and that's what kept me in the,

that's why I was able to play nine years.

And I was with winning teams.

So they keep that core group of guys together

until it doesn't work anymore.

You know, I hope that's not the case.

I'm sure, you know,

Kansas City still got great years ahead of them,

but you may see some turnover.

Like now they're going to look back

and they're going to say, you know,

it's probably us and we got to look at

what we got to do internally to get this thing right.

We have a great quarterback.

We got great player.

We know whatever it is,

but you know, that's why Andy Reed and,

and Brett Veacher are the best at what they do.

Our general manager in Kansas, or Kansas City, but yeah.

Yeah.

Don't let Frank fool you, man.

He was a heck of a player.

Everybody around here in the organization likes,

like Frank's one of the guys, he, like,

he's the standard.

Everybody talks about Zombo being this,

Zombo being that.

Like for our new linebackers, you know,

we've got some studs.

Frank is always the guy that they talk about,

like the technician, like Frank, you know,

but he was equally as great of a guy,

you know, in the building.

And, you know, obviously Frank makes his way back

every now and then to see everybody.

And, you know, honestly, like Frank mentioned,

you know, we've retained a lot of the same people,

you know, to hit on that.

Like we've, we've have a lot of coaches, athletic trainers,

strength coaches.

I mean, a lot of the same guys that, you know,

when Frank was playing are still here,

which is really kind of unheard of, you know,

and obviously everyone knows the run that we've gone on

over the last seven years,

but you know, we really haven't had a lot of turnover,

which has been pretty special, especially in the NFL.

Well, the guys still 6-3 in Jack.

So I think he did okay playing nine years.

Talk about me or him.

Take a shirt off.

Ah, I can take one off, man.

These are the, these are the winter months, James.

This is where we get, you know,

we kind of cozy up for the hunting season.

We get that extra layer.

Well, you see all of us are wearing long sleeves,

so that should tell you something.

Yeah, no sleeve monster today.

I wear, I wear a shirt to bed right now.

I can't have my wife see me like this.

Just before, tell your wife.

Yeah.

Before.

Jesus.

Really quick.

You know, the people want to know, yeah, we've heard,

you know, how great of a guy Frank is.

Awesome. I love Frankie.

Give me a good Zombo, like fall on his face story.

Give us something that, you know,

might make the old boy a little red in the cheeks here.

There's gotta be a good Frank's eye.

Man, I mean, there are so many that come to mind.

The one that I was thinking of,

I mean, you know, like there's always like

those couple of stories that you just always like

retail and retail and like they never get old.

You always like giggle about it.

And like I mentioned, like we still have

Ryan Reynolds, our headstring coach is still here.

And obviously, Frank's got some great stories with Ryan.

And we like to, even now,

we like to tell Zombo stories in the weight room

just while we're working out.

It always like makes us laugh.

And so the one that just always, always makes me laugh.

And there's multiple, but there was a, in 2017,

we played the Cowboys in Dallas.

And we, for whatever reason,

we were finding a smaller plane.

Maybe it was just because it was closed.

It was like a 757.

So it was like three seats and aisle, three seats.

And like used to, you know, normally we have a lot more

spread out, bigger equipment, bigger plane.

And so guys have like seats between them

while we were like crammed in there.

So I'm like walking down the aisle with my bag, you know,

like kind of half sideways and I see Frank sitting there.

And I'm like, oh, like what a great opportunity

to just like mess with Frank.

And so I just, I was like one seat behind him.

And so he's just sitting there like,

mind of his own business.

And like, I just kind of like,

I was like, I'm just gonna like run this bag

like over his head as I put it up

in the overhead storage.

So I just like dragged my heavy bag,

like over his head, like try to mess his hair up

and like put it in the overhead.

And as I put it up there, I just, he was like,

ah, and I looked down and he's like holding his neck

and he's like, dude, my neck.

So he had jacked his neck up pretty bad in that game

and I didn't know about it.

So it was kind of just coincidence.

So felt bad about that.

Flash forward to the next day.

I forget about it.

I mean, like, I feel like Mondays for us,

you just kind of try to like erase, get away,

you know, get away from football.

And so we happen to be down on a property myself, Frank

and our former fullback, Anthony Sherman.

And so we were putting some stands up,

doing some doing some recreational stuff.

And they, they dropped me off to put a stand up.

And I'm like, you guys go down and do that

and just pick me up on the way back.

And so I get done with my stuff.

Like I can hear the Polaris like driving towards us.

I'm like, of course, just me being me.

I'm just like, I'm gonna scare them.

So I was like, if I hide over here,

I can just pop out of the bushes and scare them.

And so I, I, I perfect.

I'm like, okay, Frank's gonna be on the right.

So I like jump over there, Anthony's driving.

And so I hide in these bushes and as they get close,

they go, I just wait till they're about right.

I mean, right next to me.

And I just jumped out.

Yeah, I did something like,

probably just some kind of like, you know, like sneaky,

like, you know, like, like something,

like something was after you,

like some kind of wild animal.

And I'm like, I just knew I was like, I got him good.

So they keep driving and I hit the brakes.

And so I jumped out in the, the pathway

and I'm laughing real hard.

I'm looking at him and like,

Anthony or fullback is driving.

He just turns around at me and he's just like,

nothing like that.

And I look over at Frank

and Frank's got his hand on his neck on.

Cause he had, he had got scared,

turned and hurt his neck again.

And so like two days in a row, I got him.

And the look on Anthony's face, I was just like,

you know what, I'm going to walk back to the cabin.

And so I just went through the woods.

I was like, I'm not,

I'm not getting in that players with Frank right now.

He's so mad at me.

Not as funny anymore.

Cause I actually did just get a scan

and I do have some like,

some dirt damage, like disc issues going in that neck

because I used to strike with my hands in my face.

That game against Dallas.

And maybe Lindy can bring a picture of the guy

I went against that whole game.

It was, what was it named?

Tyron Smith or whatever.

Do you remember that?

Yeah, just Google that guy.

Yeah.

Google that guy.

He looks like the incredible Hulk.

I don't, I'll never forget this football game.

Cause I was starting against the Cowboys.

There was like Dak Prescott and they're like,

have you seen Tyron?

And I don't really follow football.

Like, I don't know guys like that.

I don't know football anymore.

I mean, I don't,

back then I didn't know like guys like that.

We didn't play Dallas often.

Like if it was, you know, like in conference team,

I'd know who the left tackle was.

And they're like, oh, check this dude out.

And I looked at a picture of him

and he is literally like a six, seven version of my,

like normally old linemen are like kind of chunky.

And this dude was just rock solid humongous.

Like before the game, and I was like, oh my gosh,

like watching film.

He's just like picking dudes up.

And then before the game, like normally when they do

like the, or welcome your Dallas Cowboys,

like you get your linebackers or like they're

towards the front, your old linemen are like heifers,

like cows that coming out late.

This guy was holding the American flag,

just leading the team out like full sprint.

I'm like, good God, I'm going to go against this guy.

Oh, that's why my neck freaking hurts James.

That's the guy that Jack came up on Sunday.

Because our offense was so good.

James probably had three reps, you know, big deal.

He's probably fresh as can be here in the capital.

I'm basically like getting help together.

I wasn't knowing what Frank was doing.

Yeah.

So anyways, I probably should have thought about that

and knew that his neck was hurt.

Anyways, yeah.

So I watched this, it was probably like 15 minutes go by.

We're back at the cabin and Frank just gives me a nod.

And he's just like, it's pretty funny.

But like, he's still like holding his neck.

He's like, pretty funny.

But like now it's funny after he blew off the steam.

So this is strikes two and three.

Strikes two and three.

He luck you didn't get the three.

One and two.

Well, you brought up funding James.

And I know that's a big part of the off season.

So we're not there yet.

You guys still have a run to make.

What is, you know, this whole thing is dealer

out of office, right?

So when football season shuts down

and I know it never fully shuts down for you guys,

you're still training, you're still, you know,

gotta take care of the body, stuff like that.

But what is, what is James Winchester doing

when football is not a priority?

Hold on, let me tie this one in too.

Okay.

James, James is a huge hunter.

James.

You were him.

Cause I've seen your four little boys

decked out in gear.

I've seen you decked out.

We both enjoy hunting.

James.

That'd be cool.

Yeah.

I mean, he's more nitty.

He's more gritty than me, I would say.

I probably have a little more like redneck

upbringing than Frank.

100%.

That's it.

He's more of a redneck upbringing.

And the story is entirely.

Frank was more like private school, like gated community.

Fair enough.

Off fans.

I was like, classic football, like in the sticks.

And we're bored.

So like in the NFL, like in the off season,

not that like OTAs, you kind of only like,

you want to work like maybe three hours a day.

Like you, it's not like a very.

So it's like a lift, some feeling.

Mostly hanging out with your boys.

And for me, my family was back in Michigan

while I was in Kansas City my last year.

So I had a lot of time.

I was golfing a lot.

I was like probably the lowest I ever got.

But then in the afternoons, and then James, I don't.

And also, we don't have that.

We're like either.

We're just doing Emily.

Yeah, we hadn't even had our first yet.

Yeah.

So we have time, like we're messing around.

And we're like, James, like you guys ever

gigged frogs before?

I'm like, what the heck is that?

He's like, you know, you, you get a spear

and we'll go and we'll gig frogs.

And then we'll cook them up.

And I'm like, where the hell are we

going to do that?

Well, we had a good buddy, Mark, who was like,

and this is like Wolf Creek.

This is like a really nice golf course in Kansas City.

And Mark is a big hunter.

And he was like their club champion.

He would actually pull up.

Like, you know, these like nice cars.

And then he'd pull up in a side by side, like Polaris,

like all mudded up.

And he had like a shot.

It was a shotgun in the back of his golf cart.

And if there was like, he hated squirrels.

He would go to school to blow the squirrel away

like on the golf course.

And this is like a nice place.

Anyway, he's like, don't worry, guys.

Like, I'm going to get you into, you know,

Mark and his like, boys, I'm going to get you

Wolf Creek. We're going to, we're going to go

gig frogs at night.

So like all the ponds, I got videos on my phone

still of James in the mud of these nice golf course,

just like, and then one time like a frog got out of his

little, it was like half alive.

It was like in his little bag and it like

bounced into the water and James, no joke, dove

into these ponds and has like frogs by the legs

and like a spear in his mouth.

Not exaggeration, gigging these frogs.

And then we got like 10 frogs and we had them

in an old post mail, like a box box.

We got them out and they cooked them up and

they breaded them up and he ate them out of a pond.

I couldn't.

I couldn't realize that he's like long legs.

I was like, they don't have they have bullfrogs

in Michigan. I mean, like, down, down where we're from.

Like, I was like, I'm going to be muddy.

And no, I like I play on the grass on golf courses.

Indeed, we're going to we're going to get away to

I'm going to we're going to put this picture.

I'm going to find the picture of James

gigging those frogs and put this in the pocket.

I mean, you know, I think it's like when you

grow up doing it, you just don't think of it any differently.

You're just like, this is just what we what we did.

Like during the summer, when it was warm,

there was nothing to do, like go shine a light

and find bullfrogs, shine a light.

He finds their eyes.

I had a lot of memories that as a kid.

There they are, you know,

honestly, being at Wolf Creek Golf Club,

like the nicest golf course around.

I mean, I was like, man, you normally

like waiting through like cat tails and stuff.

I'm like, he's like manicure greens.

We're walking barefoot across here.

Like this is like, this is the way to do it.

And so and also my motivation was up there, too,

because like Frank was like, I'd never done this.

I was like, oh, yeah, we're we're we're about to go do that.

We're going to take them.

We're going to bread them up.

We're going to eat them like the whole thing.

So we we definitely gave Frank the experience that night.

Yeah. So is it I mean, obviously you're still in Kansas City.

Is it are you more?

Is it more dear? Is it more?

What are you doing?

Man, it depends on when it is.

Obviously, deer hunting is no surprise.

Deer hunting in Kansas is Missouri.

It's awesome.

But, you know, like they also have great waterfowl, turkey.

So like, I think depending on when you ask me,

if you ask me the fall, I'm like, dear,

if you ask me in the spring, definitely turkey, you know,

it's just like a seasonal thing, you know,

and you just get out when you can.

And my son, Jay, sees eight now.

So I know Frank's got a got a crew of boys.

It's so much fun like getting them out now.

You know, like, yeah, I want to get out and hunt,

but like it's it's such a different way of doing it

because you like get to kind of see through their eyes

and you get to like, you know, when you take them,

like you realize it's such a big deal,

but also like, I mean, I could care less.

Like I'm like, I like to get out and hunt,

but to take him and see him enjoy it,

it's just so much fun.

So I mean, he killed his first deer last year,

a stud in Kansas, can't believe it.

I tried to remind him that like,

I killed a doe for my first deer

and this kid's got this like 13 point buck,

you know, thankful to some friends

that took us and let us hunt their property.

And same thing, killed a big nice turkey,

10 inch beard, like kids live in the life.

So yeah, he's, we're, we're,

we're where we need to be in the Midwest

and I couldn't line up more perfect, you know,

being in Kansas city with, with, you know,

the outdoor opportunity that you have for a small town,

Redneck, you're like me.

And then in the new type of hunting that James and I are

into these coyote, coyote hunting thermals at night

and you thermals with suppressors

is probably the coolest way to hunt.

It's like, it's like zero dark 30 for coyotes.

Like, you know,

they have this technology that's available,

you know, to civilians where you can actually have,

like, you know,

you can go buy a thermal scope and go out

and like see heat signatures.

Like that didn't exist when I was younger.

And so it really gives you an advantage

and it's a lot of fun.

It's, you know,

a lot of camaraderie with it.

And I know Frank's got into it with his guys

and same thing down here.

We've got a couple of teammates that are into it

and it makes for a good time.

Now it's kind of conflicting though

because, you know, in deer season,

I'm kind of like particular about like,

protect this area for deer.

But then like when deer season ends,

it's just like, it's all coyotes.

So January, February, it's like, it's long

and have a lot of fun doing it.

Well, predator control,

especially if you like to raise a deer herd

or you like to have turkeys on your property,

like coyotes are the biggest nuisance

to raiding turkey nests in the spring

or, you know, killing young fawns,

deer fawns in the spring as well.

So yeah, you're helping that.

So you're better in your property.

And that's another thing James is into is,

James talk about the property that you just purchased,

you know, maybe a year or so ago

and that the management process

that you're putting into it,

the hinge, everything you're betting

and kind of like that's more of your hobby now

is not just the haunting and the killing

but the manage a property girl herd,

bring your son, let Jayce experience it with you.

Talk about that.

Yeah, so I mean, I've always dreamed

of owning a property and, you know,

the older I've gotten, you know,

habitat has become a popular subject.

And it's also, you know,

if I'm from a conservation standpoint,

I mean, it's good in two fold.

Like, you know, you better the property

for the wildlife, but it also creates more opportunity

because, you know, you're doing something good

that's gonna like, you know,

increase your turkey population,

increase your deer herd.

And so, which creates opportunity.

So like, you know, you find out, you know,

those who are conservation minded,

like those who use the resource

typically end up being the best conservationist

because you love what you're doing

and you want to put more back into it.

So I've always dreamed of like owning a property.

So we bought a place, a 240 acre place,

a buddy of mine, we went in on this place down here.

It's about 30 minutes south of where I live in Kansas City.

And it's really been like a project from the get go.

And if you're into the habitat, it's a lot of fun.

So I mean, we had some guys come in

and you know, create bedding areas

where they do hinge cutting and some flush cut

where they just cut the tree all the way off.

And basically the idea is dropping those trees in an area.

You're making an area designed,

you know, you could say adjacent to your food plot

where, you know, you know where the deer are gonna bed.

And so it's really a cool thing

where you take a property that, you know,

you walk in in the winter and you look down

and you look underneath and you look all around you

and you can see, you know, daylight.

It's like probably not good deer, you know, deer bedding.

And so these guys are experts

at how they drop the trees and everything.

And I can't do the work myself, but I'm learning.

But we had these, you know,

bedding areas created on our property

and obviously had some areas does for food plots.

And it's just been really cool.

Like even, you know, we're not even a total year in

and like the deer already using the bedding areas

that we designated.

And, you know, food plots are kind of a work in progress.

They're coming along.

But just to see the wildlife, you know,

get to use the place and really the property that we bought,

it was a goat and a cattle farm before we bought it.

So like there was, everything was chewed down.

It was just down to dirt and rock.

So now, you know, we've had a growing season on it.

And we actually have some good native grass that's coming

up and it's just really fun.

It's just cool to see like what that can do

for your property.

And so, you know, the old saying like

if you build it, they will come.

And I used to always think of that as like

if you just put in food, they're going to stay.

But really the other elements of that is bedding.

I mean, bedding arguably is probably as important or more

than actually your food plots.

And so still a work in progress, but it's so fun.

So yeah, I'm already thinking about, you know,

January, February, March, like the projects

and things that I want to do.

And it has a little cabin on it.

So I'm sure Frank will be down at some point

to come hang and check it out.

But yeah, I mean, I think if you love habitat

and you love doing those sorts of things,

like it's just really interesting.

And I would say too is like a common misconception

about hunters is we're killers.

Like, whoa, they like killing, you know,

you see the pictures of you holding a big old deer.

But really the guys that I respect the most

and the guys that, and what I try to be is like

killing is honestly the worst part of the hunt.

A lot of times it's the strategy that goes into it.

Whereas like James and myself,

you're putting these bedding areas in

and then you're playing the wind, right?

And you're figuring out ways to get into your property

without them knowing you're there.

And yes, I could go kill,

and James could go kill a deer,

probably every time that you go out,

I could go kill a deer.

It's very easy to go kill a deer.

But to watch a deer for three or four years grow,

and then to finally get that mature buck

to get within 30 yards of your tree stand

of where you're gonna be,

that is the thrill of the hunt.

That is not, and then once you make that arrow

and you place it in the right area

to make that animal suffer the least amount as possible,

die as quick as possible.

And then while it's dying, that is now the worst part.

And now when you're checking those trail cameras,

like the properties that I hunt on,

you may have 10 cell cameras on it.

And every night, you go to bed

and then you wake up in the morning

and you wanna see which deer were moving around

on the property.

And it was so sad for me last year,

I killed the deer I've been after for three years,

called them Brows, huge deer in Michigan.

And then the next morning you wake up

because you're like kind of autopilot.

The first thing I do wake up

as I look at those trail cameras to see,

where was Brows last night?

Was he on the property or did he walk around?

And then it was like,

dang, he ain't ever gonna be there again, you know?

Like, he may be in my basement,

I'll get to look at him whenever I want.

But-

You definitely become emotionally connected

like to the deer that you follow.

And, you know, I think more than deer

than turkey and ducks or anything.

But, you know, just cause you develop history

with those deer.

And yeah, just like what Frank's saying,

like it just ties in, you know,

like it makes it that much more fun.

When Frank was in Kansas City,

we used to always talk and we're like,

man, we have guys that are inviting us to like,

come hunt our place, come sit in our stand.

Like, there's a time and place for that, right?

But Frank and I used to always talk,

we're like, man, it's more fun

like when we put the work in,

like when we've, we know the deer

or we go scout the deer

and we've done all this work over the summer months,

getting in, whether it's putting a little food plot in

or whatnot, you know, and getting that area set up.

And then maybe you have, you know,

one, two, three years of history with a deer.

Like, when you finally get those opportunities, man,

like that cat and mouse chase is just so much fun.

And I mean, odds are with a bow.

I mean, the deer usually has the numbers

like on his side, right?

Like, usually it's harder.

Like we're kind of out of it.

You try to increase your odds,

but it's a tough thing to kill a deer with a bow.

It just is.

And so, you know, the amount of times you see a deer

that's like just out of bow range

and like it just, the thrill of that chase

is just so rewarding.

So yeah, I'm right there with you on the,

on the, you know, emotional connection with them.

And then talking about it the next morning,

I mean, that was almost the funnest thing

we had having Kansas City is every morning

we had special teams meetings start at,

was it 815 James?

815, yeah.

And so we would get there at like 730, 740, whatever.

And then we all get our, you know,

homeless, the big, you know, whatever we'd all,

and we all had breakfast together.

We shoot this shit about hunting

and whatever was going on.

Most of the time it was about hunting.

Yeah. It was like the outdoor table.

That table was just like made up of, you know,

four or five guys that were like,

we'd have guys that would walk by and joke with us.

They're like, you guys all just talking about hunting.

Like this is like the hunting table.

Like it's all you don't want to talk about.

And if they didn't want to talk about hunting,

they just kept walking because they're like,

we know what they're talking about.

So real quick, James, and I'm not,

I'm not a hunter,

but I got too many expensive hobbies as is, right?

So I'm like Frank's like Frank's, you know,

invited me out and I'm like, dude,

if I get one more expensive hobby,

my wife's going to leave me.

So, so probably not.

But you hear a lot of controversy about bow versus gun.

You know, I think some guys might like,

I've heard, correct me if I'm wrong,

rifles kind of cheating in some aspects.

It's not true hunting.

What's kind of both of you,

I'm asking both of you as a take on this,

what is truthful, what is right?

Yeah, I mean, I'll start.

I, there's nothing wrong with it, I think.

Cause I think at the end of the day,

I feel like what's most important,

when you start as a kid,

you don't start with a bow,

you start with a rifle, right?

And so like, you got to look at it as like,

if long as you're getting out,

and again, going back to that whole like,

usually the person who cares the most,

typically is like the better conservationist,

the one that's involved.

And it's like, you get involved,

everybody starts gun hunting, you know?

And so I think what it's about

is getting out and joining the outdoors,

I think first and foremost,

so whether you're doing that with a gun or a bow,

that's your thing.

But I think a lot of us have like,

kind of progressed from rifle to bow.

So I always say like, bow is my thing,

I love bow, it's just so much more rewarding,

it's harder, but I'm not like opposed to,

there's a time and a place

where you bring the rifle out and you hunt.

You know, usually that's like late season,

Frank will tell you like,

when you're like frustrated and you're like,

man, this deer is a ghost,

he will not give me a chance,

he's like, he needs to go this year,

maybe he's the buck on your property,

you know, on your farm.

It's like, man, this guy's a bully,

he's five, six years old, like he needs to go.

And it's like, okay, I need to put a little more,

you know, odds in my basket

and like go after him with a rifle.

So there's nothing wrong with that.

I mean, that's how I see it.

Yeah, I grew up, you know, playing for the Packers

is kind of where I started to hunt.

So I got into bow hunting right off the bat,

so I was more of a bow hunter than anything.

But then I'll talk to people in Michigan

and they're like, and I kind of looked,

now I look down on rifle hunters or anything like that,

but there's like a certain tradition

to opening day in Michigan, November 15th every year.

It's like 4th of July.

It is up here, and it's like, that morning,

as soon as that sun comes up,

you hear him going up, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

And there's something to it

that's been going on for 100 years,

whatever it is, opening day.

So there's a certain tradition of guys,

the camaraderie of getting,

men, women doesn't matter,

there's a lot of people that hunt nowadays,

but getting together and doing deer camp.

So I understand.

And like you said, it's about getting out in the woods

and supporting conservation by buying a deer tag,

buying a hunting license,

and it supports the tradition of hunting, right?

So it's really cool.

You know, growing up in Oklahoma,

Southeast from Oklahoma,

they would actually let out school

for opening day of deer season.

It was that big of a deal.

In my area, unfortunately,

maybe we didn't take it as seriously.

It's like, seriously, I guess,

we never actually got to let out of school,

but I had some friends that grew up

in Southeast Oklahoma and they were like,

oh yeah, we used to let out for school early,

like for opening weekend.

I was like, dude,

should have been born and raised down there.

That's pretty cool.

That's awesome.

Sound your speed.

That's right.

All right, James, last kind of question

as we wrap this up,

and again, appreciate your time,

but again, being dealer out of office,

we talked about hunting,

we've talked about football.

What else are you doing outside?

I know you got the kids,

is that most of your time,

is there anything else that you're like

very passionate about?

What else kind of drives you a little bit?

I mean, spending time with the kids,

obviously as a father,

whatever that is outside.

I got my son a little RC airplane,

so we've been flying that thing around.

So he's into duck hunting,

so he's always like,

dad, when are we going duck hunting next?

Surprisingly, I've never been a,

Frank, you're like this.

We always talked about

Plink and Squirrels and stuff like that.

I took my son to Squirrel Hunting

about a month ago and he was hooked.

He was like, dad, we gotta do that again.

And so it's funny how the stuff that you were like,

I don't have any interest in that.

All of a sudden, you have boys

and they're like, I just want to get out and walk around

with a 22 and shoot Squirrels like,

but I will say we did,

I kind of have like the meat-eater spin on it.

We made sure we skint that thing out

and cooked it for him that night.

So he ate it.

I'm like, we're not just going to be shooting Squirrels

and shoot Squirrels, like,

we're actually going to hunt

and then you're going to eat what you kill.

So yeah, other than that, man,

just this time you're trying to stay warm.

So obviously still playing,

still have a few weeks left in the season,

but any moment,

an opportunity we have to get outside,

we're outdoors.

Can you see a football player or what's he?

He's gotten into it.

He has, he played, he's played two years,

three years of flag football

and next year will be opportunity for tackle.

So I'll be calling Frank to ask him

how his boys made that transition.

Yeah, I got some plays for him.

I've been perfecting.

I've walked into Frank's office.

I've seen the X's and O's on a sticky note

and it's still going in that brain of his.

A lot of drawn up plays.

Hey, you know, as a specialist,

you know, playing in this league,

obviously we're kind of in our own world.

Like we go over on field three

and just snap and kick and punt like all day long.

So you know, it's been quite a few years

that I've been kind of removed

from some of the X's and O's on often the defense,

but I have a lot of guys,

including Frank that I'll be calling when I'm done.

Cause I'm like, hey,

you're obviously an expert on that defense thing.

Like I need to give me the rundown.

So spent a little too many years

in the special teams meeting,

but if you need a special teams question,

I'm there for you.

But often as a defense,

I think I'll be making some calls.

I got to blow up his spot a little bit

about training camp and the life.

I think this is a good one for the life of training camp.

Going to, we'd go to St. Joe, Missouri, as you can see chief

in training camp practice would start at like eight, 15.

You'd have to get to the state in price seven, 15.

You had to like a three hour practice in the heat.

You know, luckily coach Reba practices in the mornings,

which are good.

You don't practice.

And then you'd have meetings from like 130 to 430.

Then you'd have dinner.

And then you had to report back at like 630 to nine o'clock.

And it was every day for three weeks.

And it was a very stressful time.

You know, you're in a linebacker room

that has maybe 17 guys in it and they're gonna keep eight.

So it's very competitive.

Every day you're being evaluated in front of your peers

on how well you performed,

how well you did this drill,

how where your hands are placed.

Why did you get beat here?

Why did, you know, this isn't that critiquing.

It's very stressful.

The specialist, you know, they go into training camp

and they've already gotten through the tough parts.

They're at the top 32 of what they do.

So give them credit there.

But they would know that there's just one punter

in training camp.

There's one long snapper, one kicker.

They're not competing against anybody.

Some training camps may be different,

but basically when I was going,

I was like a grown man on the verge of tears.

And if anybody out in the world says,

I can't wait to get to training camp,

I can't wait to, they're full of crap.

Training camp is a very stressful time.

You just got done with like a three week break.

Like PTSD, like you do like two more training camp.

Oh my gosh, like it's a, it's just a haze.

It's like a Vietnamese death march.

It's good.

Just every day of the same.

Anyway, so the long-term, they can't wait to go

because like our punter Dustin Colquitt,

he had like five kids at home.

And I didn't really relate to it as much

when I was playing, because I didn't have all those kids.

But he literally be like, all right, family.

I'll see you later.

And he's like, I would get in my truck,

I'd put the sunroof back and he'd be like,

it'd just start cheering because he was gonna go

and he was basically gonna go hang out with his friends

for the next three weeks,

have no parental responsibilities.

And basically he would go and kick for maybe 15 minutes.

You know, they'd kick, do things,

maybe half a practice, do one live thing

where they do field goal kick.

And then they were pretty much done

the rest of the day while we were in like all these meetings.

And then we would get back

and there'd be like frogs in our toilet,

like big bowl frogs in our toilet.

And we're like, we're doing it.

There's only three guys who have enough time.

It's the specialist.

And they would pull pranks on like,

like Ryan, who was like our new,

he's our now our head strength coach in Kansas City,

but he was like new.

He would have to do bed checks at night

cause everyone had to be in the rooms

at 11 o'clock at night.

And these dudes would pull different pranks.

I'm Ryan of like, they'd be in like thong bathing suits

with like cigarettes in their mouths and beer cans

and like all in the same room.

We always kept it interesting at bed check.

Bed check and mess with Ryan.

Dustin's got some, I couldn't even talk about

on the air the things he would do.

But yeah, they had this, the life at training camp.

So I have to expose them a little bit.

Yeah, they'd be, all right, we're gonna go,

where are we gonna go look for deer tonight?

And they would just go drive around

and go locate deer.

And it was like, we always practiced in the morning.

So like, you know, that's like, you know,

go out, get your work in in the morning

and then, you know, had a mid afternoon lift

every other day.

And these guys have like meetings upon meetings on,

I mean, starting the day back then

before the newer CBA came in.

I mean, we were eight AM, eight oh five

on the field start and it was what a,

meetings are like nine, nine, 15.

So like, these guys are literally in practice

or meetings or walkthrough or workout from eight AM.

You know, and I obviously used to get you breakfast.

You're up six, 30, whatnot, all the way until,

you know, they're leaving meetings going back,

grab a snack and they're straight to bed.

And it's like the next thing next morning.

And, you know, it's four days in a row.

It's just like a grueling physically and mentally.

And that's kind of the base of your season, you know?

And for a specialist, you know,

as long as you're doing your job

and you're doing what you need to do every day,

you're like, man, I got a lot of free time.

And like, when I came to the league,

Dustin Colca was there and he is the,

the practical joker of all, of all practical jokers.

I mean, he, that man has,

he thinks of stuff that you're like,

I don't know how your mind is wired that way

where you would think about pranking this guy that way

or think about bringing this or that.

And so that was kind of the ringleader.

Like I kind of had like just followed him.

And man, he always kept people laughing, you know?

And Dustin, to give him props,

he used to always say like,

it's not just about me joking around.

He's like, you know,

this is a super stressful time for these guys.

Like he's like, I love giving these guys something

to laugh about, like something to talk about.

I mean, so much so that like the next day,

coach Reed always got to kick about like, you know,

what happened to bed check?

He would always ask Ryan and coach Rubbs at the time.

And so like, you know, those stories,

I feel like it's good for the morale, good for the team.

I'll never forget those kind of stories.

Like I still think of them all the time.

I still remember the video you sent to me.

I was already done.

Remember the first year I was done with football

and I came back and coach Reed let me, he's like,

yeah, come back.

And he just let me, I was in the cold tubs.

I had like a locker.

I was in the weight room.

So I wasn't on a team anymore.

And coach Reed, like I was just part of the team again.

Yeah.

I was drinking coffees with Tobe.

Tell him how that day ended when you left.

And I leave.

Days ended.

I'm done.

I had a rental truck and I park it like in the parking

lot, everything I get back.

They put, well, I don't know who did it.

There is a bunch of sand because they

would sand the fields and things.

They took one of the spreader things.

Not a spreader, like one of the small bobcats.

And loaded the back of my truck with,

I couldn't, like all the sand on the back of my truck.

It's like, it's had to be like 2,000 pounds of sand.

In his real truck.

I mean, the truck was like this.

And like, he's like, tell everybody goodbye.

Hey, it's so good to see you guys, man.

Thanks for a good day.

And like walks out to his truck

and his trucks filled up with sand.

He's like, I got to return.

I got to take this back to the airport.

What am I going to do?

So he was so stressed out.

So he's like, guys, you got it because obviously you knew.

So he's like, we're denying it.

But he's like, we're like, all right, well, we felt guilty

down deep.

We're like, we're not admitting it, but we will help you.

Like, we didn't know shovels, nothing.

We're like, we're like getting like sticks and like trying

to dust like 2,000 pounds out of the back of his truck.

He's all stressed.

He's sweating.

Like it's not the way he thought his day was going in.

And it was like, man, you come back to training camp.

You're going to get it.

I still love the one, too, where you guys had that.

You guys got a snake in like a crouching position.

It was like a rattlesnake in the city you have.

Like in Missouri, you have snakes like that.

And this thing was in like a striking position about to go.

And they set up a garbage can.

So like when you come out of the locker room,

there was like a garbage can on the sidewalk.

And then to the right of that was the cold tub.

So everyone's in the cold tubs like sitting.

Well, James found this snake in like a taxi

dirt meat snake, put it behind the garbage can.

It had a fishing line.

And they're all sitting there in the cold tub.

And as soon as like one of the guys would come in,

they would pull that snake out from behind the garbage can

and then watch what these dudes do when there's a snake at your feet.

I mean, thankfully, we didn't give anybody a heart attack.

You know, you're like, ah, these guys are young.

They can take it.

But we got some great reactions to that.

Like one of your starters, and then you're in trouble, eh?

Yeah, they weren't doing that to Pat or Tyree kill the time.

No, no, no.

Yeah, yeah, we saw Pat or Tyree or Kelsey

walk out of the door and just let them walk.

That's obviously a testament to those teams being

successful in locker room and the culture

that that was there.

So I love the background stories of what it's like

in a real locker room.

It's not always grinding, grinding, grinding.

There's some fun to it.

100%.

James, I can't thank you enough for jumping on, man.

This has been awesome.

Best of luck the rest of the year.

We wish you guys all the luck.

Obviously, this office has some Kansas City stuff flying

around here just with Frank's frat room of an office.

I'm looking at over here, but a lot of memorabilia with you

guys.

And again, thank you for coming on and giving us your time today.

Absolutely, man.

It was fun.

Let's do it again.

Stay healthy, dude.

We'll do.

Bye, fellas.

See you, buddy.

Chasing the NFL dream, life on the Chiefs, and hunting season with James Winchester

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