Cheating VS "Optimizing" Manufacture Test Data — The Carmudgeon Show w/ Cammisa & DTS — Ep 213
The Carmudgeon Show
Cheating VS "Optimizing" Manufacture Test Data — The Carmudgeon Show w/ Cammisa & DTS — Ep 213
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50:59
Company
Fredstein
Fredstein makes tires for cars. They are known for making good quality tires that help cars perform well on the road.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Cosworth
The Mercedes-Benz Cosworth is a special version of Mercedes cars that are designed for better performance, often used in racing. They have unique features that make them faster and more powerful.
Part
Pirelli P6000
The Pirelli P6000 is a type of tire made by the Pirelli company. It's designed to provide good handling and comfort for cars, helping them grip the road better in different weather conditions.
Car
Volkswagen Sciroccos
The Volkswagen Scirocco is a small sports car that was popular in the late 20th century. Many people like it for its unique style and sporty feel.
Term
blowout
A blowout is when a tire suddenly loses air and goes flat. This can happen if the tire is damaged, and it can make it hard to steer the car safely.
Term
tire pressure
Tire pressure is how much air is in your car's tires. It's important to keep it at the right level for safety and to help your car run better.
Car
Volkswagen Egolf
The e-Golf is a version of the Volkswagen Golf that runs on electricity instead of gasoline. It's designed to be environmentally friendly and is great for city driving.
Car
BMW E30
The E30 is a specific version of the BMW 3 Series that was made in the 1980s and early 1990s. It's known for being fun to drive and has become a classic car that many people love.
Term
autocross
Autocross is a type of racing where cars drive through a course marked by cones. It's usually done in parking lots and focuses on how well you can handle your car rather than how fast you can go.
Car
Volkswagen Gtis
The Volkswagen GTI is a fun and sporty car that many people enjoy driving. It's popular for racing and has a lot of fans because it's both practical and fast.
Term
winter tires
Winter tires help your car grip the road better when it's cold and snowy. They are made from special rubber that stays soft in the cold, which helps with traction.
Term
Ecopia
Ecopia tires are made to help cars use less fuel and be more environmentally friendly. They are designed to roll easier on the road, which helps save energy.
Term
Pilot Sport 4S
The Pilot Sport 4S is a type of tire made by Michelin that is great for sports cars. It helps the car grip the road better, especially when driving fast or taking sharp turns.
Part
Quattrac Pros
Quattrac Pros are special tires made for driving in winter weather. They help your car grip the road better when it's snowy or icy.
Concept
Wednesday Night Drags
Wednesday Night Drags is a fun event where people can race their cars against each other on a track. It's a safe place to see how fast your car can go.
Car
Volkswagen Cabrio
The Volkswagen Cabrio is a small car that can be driven with the top down. It's popular for being fun and easy to drive.
Term
drag race
Drag racing is a race where cars go really fast in a straight line to see who can get to the finish line first. It's all about speed!
Term
section tires
Section tires are a way to measure how wide a tire is. A 195 tire is wider than a 185 tire, which can help the car grip the road better.
Term
massive torque and power
Torque is how much force the engine can produce to turn the wheels, and power is how fast the engine can do work. More torque and power usually mean better acceleration and performance in a car.
Term
Altimax RT 43
The Altimax RT 43 is a type of tire that focuses on providing a smooth and comfortable ride rather than being designed for fast or sporty driving. It's good for everyday use but not for racing or high-performance situations.
Term
drag racing
Drag racing is a sport where two cars race in a straight line to see who can go the fastest. It's usually done on a special track that is a quarter-mile long.
Term
consistency
Consistency in racing means being able to perform at the same level every time you race. It's important because it helps you know what to expect and can lead to better results overall.
Car
Toyota Prius
The Toyota Prius is a type of car that uses both a gasoline engine and an electric motor to save fuel and reduce emissions. It's well-known for being very efficient and good for the environment.
Term
breaking out
In drag racing, breaking out means finishing the race quicker than you said you would. If you say you'll take 18 seconds and finish in 17.9 seconds, you broke out, which can lead to losing the race.
Term
RPM
RPM means how many times something spins in one minute. In cars, it helps show how fast the engine is running and how much power it can make.
Part
shift linkage
The shift linkage is what connects the gear stick to the transmission. If it's broken, it can make it hard to change gears properly.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower measures how powerful an engine is. The more horsepower a car has, the faster it can go and the better it can accelerate.
Car
Volkswagen Jettas
The Volkswagen Jetta is a small car that is easy to drive and has a lot of space inside. It's a good choice for people who want a reliable vehicle.
Term
0-60 time
0-60 time is how long it takes a car to go from stopped to going 60 miles per hour. It's a way to measure how fast a car can speed up.
Term
zero to 60
Zero to 60 is a way to see how fast a car can go from a stop to 60 miles per hour. It's often used to compare how quick different cars are.
Car
Ferrari 360 Modena
The Ferrari 360 Modena is a stylish sports car that was made in the early 2000s. It's known for being fast and having a cool design, making it popular among car lovers.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Eclass
The Mercedes-Benz E-Class is a fancy car that is comfortable and has many high-tech features. It's popular because it looks good and drives well, making it a favorite for people who want a nice car.
Car
Ferrari 599
The Ferrari 599 GTO is a super-fast version of another Ferrari model made in 2010. It's designed for people who want an exciting driving experience and is one of the quickest Ferraris out there.
Car
Pontiac GTO
The Pontiac GTO is an old American car that was really popular for being fast and powerful. It helped start the trend of muscle cars, which are known for their strong engines and sporty looks.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that many people recognize by its unique shape. It's known for being fast and fun to drive, and it's been around for a long time, which makes it very special.
Car
Ford Mustang GTD
The Ford Mustang GTD is a special version of the Mustang that is built for speed and performance on the racetrack. It still works well for everyday driving, making it a fun car to own.
Car
Shelby Gt500S
The Shelby GT500 is a very powerful version of the Ford Mustang, which is a popular American sports car. It's known for being fast and having a strong engine, making it exciting to drive.
Car
Ferrari F40
The Ferrari F40 is a very famous and fast sports car that was made a long time ago. It's known for being lightweight and powerful, making it a favorite among car enthusiasts.
Car
Lamborghini Lmo
The Lamborghini LM 002 is a unique and rare SUV that was made a long time ago. It's known for being very powerful and can go off-road, which is unusual for a luxury vehicle.
LIVE
Derek, that was quite the yawn.
Did you not realize the cameras are rolling?
I do now.
OK, welcome to another episode of the Car Margin Show,
driven by Hagerty.
You are Jason Camisa.
You are asleep.
I can tell you, you're in a post-bunch food coma.
Yes, as we often are.
Our specialty.
I'm Derek Tam Haifetz-Scott.
In this episode of the Car Margin Show,
we talk about optimizing.
Optimizing, which is the Italian word for...
Cheating?
Yeah.
You can say it, I can't.
For optimizing test vehicles for performance.
There is some evidence that I have in my pocket.
Well, technically it's on the floor.
I'll pick it up in a second that maybe some car companies
have not always been 100% honest about the cars
that they give us to test.
Like Volkswagen, shockingly, I didn't say it.
It cost them a few billion dollars.
Anyway, we're talking about performance testing,
not emissions testing to be clear.
But if you're going to optimize,
you might as well optimize everywhere, right?
That's right.
Can we have an optimal...
By the way, that was two so far in a row
that have been really good claps.
So the pressure...
Okay, B plus, he's getting better.
Thank you.
He's getting better folks, he's getting better.
All right, on to the jingle.
This episode of the Car Margin Show is sponsored
by none other than...
Fredstein Tires.
Yes, they are back.
Welcome back.
And front.
You know what I'm about to do next week?
But did you do the spare?
What are your thoughts on replacing the spare tire?
Oh, you know, that's really strange to bring that up
because just yesterday last night,
I was airing up the, of course,
Fredstein Sprint Plus tires on my Mercedes Cosworth.
And we didn't talk about that the last episode, did we?
Huh, I was supposed to talk about that last episode.
I replaced the steering box on that car
and it's magical.
We did talk about this.
That was the episode before last.
That's why I don't remember it.
It's two whole weeks ago.
Yes, I had a box here and the whole thing.
Just ignore me.
Anyway, I was, I smell toast.
Grandma?
I like toast.
Do you smell it or am I having a stroke?
No, I was airing up the tires that I have on the car
and I went to go air up the spare
and I realized that I still have the original spare
on that car that's never been driven on.
It's a Pirelli P6000, I think.
It might be just a P6.
It might be a P6.
It's cool trend.
I looked at it and I'm like, I really should.
I mean, I paid to have that tire taken off of the spare wheel,
had the spare wheel refinished
because it scratches on it and put back on.
And I think probably I should have that somewhere
for safekeeping and then buy another wheel
and mount an actual usable spare
because it's now 40 years old.
Yeah, I don't know what to do.
I do like looking in trunks of vintage cars
and finding vintage tires
that have been extremely in LA for a long time.
Not because I ever want to use them,
but just because, you know.
My wagon has its original spare also.
The Scirocco's original spare exploded,
literally exploded in the trunk of the car.
I got in the car and I'm like, what's that smell?
You know, like I've been in the car
at the time probably 25 years.
And I'm like, you know the smell.
And I'm like, what's in here?
Did I leave a sandwich or something?
It was this weird smell.
And I looked around, looked around
and I looked under the trunk mat
and there was a tire with a blowout right in the sidewall
and a mark like on the paint.
Like what is going on?
Impressive.
Yeah.
Actually sent it to a tire rack.
They asked for it.
Like, can we evaluate this?
And it turns out someone in the first 10 years
of the car's life before I owned it
drove it on it, drove on it under inflated
and it had weakened the sidewalls,
which only just goes to show you never know
what horrors befell your tires before you.
Well, it's a good idea, especially before a long trip
to check the tire pressures.
I mean, I've definitely like put a gauge
on a tire pressure on the spare and had zero.
It's more often than not been zero when I buy a car.
And I do, I have on my whiteboard in the garage
I have the recommended tire or my preferred tire pressure
for every one of the cars and then a date next to it.
And so I probably average once, I aim for once a quarter,
probably average once every four, five, six months
that you air up.
And I'll do it times four or times five as a reminder
of like, have I done the spare or not?
Cause sometimes a spare, you got to pull it out
cause it's mounted upside down.
It's very important to make sure your tires
are properly inflated.
Regardless of brand.
I mean, yeah, this is not a Fretnestine thing,
Fretnestine just came in and sponsored this episode
and they know that like we have
how many sets of those tires?
11 D3, something, dozen.
But what I did start to say is that
I'm about to do an autocross in the e-golf.
On the all track pros.
And I don't think they have quite the grip
that the PS4S's did, but I really, really quite like them.
And I think I'm going to send Randy Popes.
Randy Popes can be there.
I think we're going to send Randy Popes out
in the e-golf cause I'll probably have the e-golf
and be a Trist My Ship Box E30,
which is on Fretnestine Sprint Pluses there.
And I want to see if the e-golf is faster
around an autocross course than the E30 is.
The ability to carefully meter out power
that an electric car has is, and the instant torque.
In rally cross, certainly electric cars
are have especially front wheel drive or four wheel drive,
but they're usually front wheel drive in that context
are really, really impressive performers.
It's probably because of the sophistication
of the traction control in that context.
I took the dirt car on a back road on snow tires
and it was incredibly low grip.
That'd be incredibly fun though.
It's very fun, but it's like very slow, very low limits.
Well, Randy cut his teeth racing Volkswagen GTIs.
So I'm thinking front wheel drive, like a front wheel drive car
and Randy got to cut his teeth racing.
So racing autocrosses.
So, you know, I just want him to autocross the e-golf
and set like the fastest time of day
and just be like, some motherfuckers.
Like, so against some person
in a very heavily prepared, more sporting car.
I don't know if it'll be that fast,
but those tires are grippy AF.
And we are unfortunately approaching that time of year
where I'll probably switch to my winter tires and wheels,
which are the original wheels for the car,
but 16s and 205s instead of 18s and 225s.
So I get some of my range back.
You're running the Ecopia.
No, you're not running.
No, the car came with Ecopias.
And I didn't want to put another set on them
because I did not love really anything about them grip wise.
Yeah, I thought they were fairly low grip.
I definitely remember having exciting moments
in my e-golf.
0.86, according to car and driver,
there's not terrible,
but I mean, on 1.16G on the Pilot Sport 4Ss,
I haven't done the first time Ultra Pro,
but I'm guessing it's 1.09.
I mean, it's stupid amounts of grip.
And then now I have Quattrac Pros for the winter on the 16s
and they definitely outgrip the Ecopias,
but they're also not as efficient.
And so my winter range was about 130 miles between 120 and 130,
and it's now like 110, so.
Well, it's not a tire for that mission,
which is what the Ecopias were,
hence the ECO and whatever the PIA is, pain in the ass.
Wow, that's, I mean.
That's what Ecopias was,
I mean, Fred Astan is going to be happy
that you're shitting on Bridgestone's naming like that.
Maybe they're not, maybe they're friends.
No, it's just transparent marketing of what the tire is,
you know.
Is meant to do, is being pain in the ass.
But economically.
Anyway, here's our not Bridgestone sponsor.
So I did something embarrassing the other day,
and I went to Wednesday Night Drags at Sonoma Raceway,
which part was embarrassing?
I was like, I don't know what to do.
Which part was embarrassing?
The part where I showed up in a red Volkswagen Cabrio.
Yeah.
I did it two points slow.
It was.
You drag race the two points slow.
I did.
And I asked if I could please run with the top down
because I just wanted to have four people in the car
playing like Katy Perry or California girls
or something really embarrassing and they told me no.
But then the horrible resulting time
wouldn't have been quite so embarrassing
if there were four people in the car.
Was the time embarrassing even with one person?
Okay.
Asterisk first, not scientific test.
Sonoma Dragway tends to be slightly uphill
and it is slightly uphill
and it tends to be into a headwind.
So the times I've seen at Sonoma
tend to not be the fastest.
Also the car should have 195 section tires on it
as 185s because I currently am running
my Mark I spare wheels.
So it doesn't have as much grip as it should
especially given the wheels and tires that I have on it
are my rollers that I use.
And the massive torque and power
that the engine produces.
No, it doesn't do either of those
but their general Altimax RT 43s.
And if you know anything about those tires
you know that they are non-performance tires.
It's not that they're not performance tires.
They are actively against performance.
They are negatory performance.
But I thought, all right, on VHT
maybe it'll even out the 185s versus 195s, whatever.
So how did it hook up?
Holy shit, it did not.
So the first couple runs, it was like a 1500 RPM
soft clutch launch-ish and just monumental wheel spin.
Did you try putting people on the front bumper?
I did for the third run because I didn't care.
I put a person in the front seat
and it improved dramatically.
And I think it was just the fact
that these tires have never really been driven.
They're on my spare wheels and I have those wheels and tires
just to roll a car around
if the other wheels are out getting mounted
and balanced or something.
They barely ever drove these tires.
They eventually wound up warming up and hooking up.
And I got, I'm so proud of myself
because you know that drag racing
at a drag race event is not really about your fastest time.
It's about consistency.
I did three runs that were within 0.071 seconds
and 0.45 of a mile an hour.
So they were unfortunately all 18.3 seconds at 75 miles an hour.
Thus making me embarrassingly the absolute slowest car
out of the entire crowd of people drag racing.
I got by Prius, by about Prius, yeah.
Video of the Prius.
Generation of Prius.
I don't know, 2008-ish something like that.
So that's second or third generation,
second or third?
Third probably.
Third.
Fairly modern.
So it would have been third, yeah.
Yeah, embarrassing.
Quite embarrassing, except that I really,
I was laughing the whole time anyway.
Tell me more about who's drag racing a Prius.
I didn't talk to that degenerate.
Why would you speak to someone who drag race?
To know why.
Why the fuck was I there in a cabrio?
Cause you're in hinge.
We know that.
We have the answer to that.
Maybe the Prius driver was also on hinge.
That's what I wanted to know.
If you had confirmed that they were on hinge or not.
No, listen, drag racing, it's bracket drag,
so it's all about consistency.
It doesn't really matter.
So a friend of mine who was there was saying that there was,
there was someone who used to show up in a minivan.
I think she said she was a minivan.
It was an old lady that showed up in the minivan
and won every week.
Cause she was just more consistent than everyone else
and she was running 18s or 19s.
And I'm like, don't fucking slow shame 18s.
But it really doesn't matter because you dial in a time,
you, half of this is strategy,
but you dial in a time
and the other person dials in a time
and whoever gets closer to their time
without beating it wins.
That's it.
Have you done drag racing?
Oh, okay.
So let's say you dial in a 10 second run,
meaning you expect to make a 10 second run
and I dial in a 18 second run.
I will leave eight seconds before you do.
My light goes.
And if I beat my 18, if I run a 17 nine,
I do what's called breaking out.
I'm not a drag race expert.
So like if I use terminology and correctly,
everyone can yell at me.
If I beat my run, I've broken out
or if I jumped the light, if I read light
and I've then you automatically win.
But the idea is I have to get as close to my time
as possible without going over,
meaning going under, meaning beating that time.
And so do you.
So you will leave, it's 18 and 10,
eight seconds after I do.
And ideally, it's whoever crosses the line first wins.
There's a little caveat there is
because whoever crosses the line,
you're not just looking at elapsed time and speed.
You're looking at reaction time also.
So technically, you could be closer to your time
than I am, but I had a shorter reaction time
and therefore I crossed the line first.
It's all this weird crazy shit.
But more than anything else, consistency matters.
And so you can race a 10 second car
against an 18 second car and still a good race.
You're still looking at the finish line.
Okay.
So consistency is 71 thousandths of a second.
I'm not that consistent of a driver.
Like when I test cars, that are manuals
it's for instrumental testing.
I'll often see a variation of two or three tenths
just between runs and part of that's the car,
part of that's me.
You know, maybe I'm just not as fast shifting
but I think this confirms I'm pretty,
a lot more or at least it's,
there's a possibility that I'm a lot more consistent
than thing 0.071 of a second.
All of this has got me thinking though,
in addition to being embarrassed
about being in a big red strawberry flying down the track
is why the fuck was I so far off
of car and driver's number from back in the day?
What was car and driver's number?
176 at 77 miles an hour.
And you were 18 what?
183 at 75.
So you were two miles an hour slow.
And 0.6 to 0.3, so four and three,
seven tenths of a second off.
It's an eternity.
And you've dined on the car and confirmed,
maybe it's your tires.
So for those three runs, it hooked up perfectly.
It hooked up right at around 3,500 RPM.
That's where the wheel spin stopped
which is right at the torque peak.
Kind of that's what I'd want testing.
I think I could have done a 6,000 RPM side step
and maybe gotten another 10th,
but you risk just over spinning the tires
and I don't think it was worth it.
I got what I would consider.
If I were testing this car for the magazines,
I would have said, yep, this is consistently 18 threes.
That's what the car runs.
I was also running with an almost fully empty tank
of gas, so I'm 70 something,
probably pounds lighter than it should have been.
I expected, and there was no wind
and no weather correction
because the magazine numbers are weather corrected.
The only thing is that car's got a broken shift linkage
so I can't really slam first to second
as hard as I would or as quickly as I would,
but that's not seven tenths.
That was maybe one or two tenths of a difference.
So I just started thinking like, what's going on here?
I've dined on the car.
It makes more power than most do.
In fact, it was sort of a shock
to the dyno operator who does these cars all the time.
One more horsepower than it should.
And there's nothing otherwise special about this car.
It's not like it's got a lot of equipment.
There's no real special equipment,
which this all brought me back to another Volkswagen.
Go figure, which is my Scirocco.
Back in the day, when I first got the car in 1997,
one of the first things I did was dyno it
and it put, if I remember correctly,
109.6 horsepower to the wheels
on a 123 horsepower rating.
This was a 16 valve dyno day that somebody had organized.
It was all 16 valve Volkswagen.
So it was Scirocco's and Jetta's and GTI's.
No one else crossed the 100 horsepower mark.
They were all 97 to 99 and I put 109.6.
And a totally stock car.
28,000 miles.
28,000 miles, by that point 30 or 31.
And so, I had the healthiest car
so I know I have a very or had a very healthy 1.8.
And I took one of these devices that was called a GTEC Pro.
Do you ever hear of this?
Oh my God, it was the coolest thing.
Looked like a radar detector,
but you put it on the windshield and it measured G forces
and it would spit out 0 to 60 quarter mile
and then also lateral Gs and braking distances
if you wanted.
And I was-
And it would do this entirely with an accelerometer?
I mean, everything you need to know
other than if the thing swung
and then smashed the windshield, it would get a bad rating.
But yeah, this is at all accelerometer.
I don't know how accurate they really were,
but should have been pretty accurate.
I tried like the Dickens
and the fastest runs I got was with that stock engine,
4,200 RPM.
I have notes from this from June 3rd of 2000.
I was in visiting Mexico
and the fastest I could get was an 8.7 to 60.
The magazines all got between 7.7 and 8.1.
So I was a second off to 60,
which is like, okay, maybe you can blame
like I wasn't good at launching,
but I had really, really sticky tires on it.
If we fast forward to whatever, 2000 something,
Sonoma Raceway, there was a headwind that day,
but I went from 109 wheel horsepower to 148,
I think that motor had at the time.
So you put in a different motor to be clear.
I went from a 1.8 liter to a 2 liter with an intake,
with cams, with an exhaust,
with all these other tricks done,
shaved head for extra compression,
and almost a 50% of horsepower bump.
I got a 15.9 at 87,
which is exactly the same number that car and driver got.
With a 123 horsepower.
So a car with 50 fewer horsepower.
It's over the years when I've looked
at pictures of those original road tests.
I noticed something maybe a little suspicious.
Okay, not suspicious, completely and fully damning.
Volkswagen fucking absolutely cheated on those tests.
And I know this because the US engine
used 40 millimeter intake runners
and the Euro version of the cars without cats,
which were not 123 horsepower or 139 BS,
so 136 horsepower US,
used 50 millimeter intake runners.
Very different design,
clearest day when you look at them.
One are skinny and the same length,
the whole way the fatties have to tuck in at the spark plugs
and then go back out.
So clearly Volkswagen had put Euro non-cat motors
on the US test cars.
So no US car was doing 7, 7 to 60,
which is why I couldn't get within a second either.
And they would always talk about this lack of low end torque
in the engine.
Like all the magazine reports talked about this
and my car didn't have that.
None of the US cars had a lack of low end torque.
Yes, because they traded low end torque
for high end breathing in order to make more power
than 50 mill runners did exactly that.
And the Euro cams did have far less low end torque.
And they would say pulled right to 7,200,
like it wanted to rip the needle off the scale.
Well, I did one of those tests
and I forgot to write down number.
It was a, my car did an 11 second zero to 60
if I shifted it at 7,200.
It had no power over 6,000.
And so it is confirmed.
As far as I'm concerned,
Volkswagen 100% put cheater motors in these cars
because not only were the numbers
not even close to attainable,
but the impressions were just didn't match every other one.
And I now wonder if Volkswagen put a bit
of a cheater motor in that Cabrio.
Who would do that at a two point slow though?
What's the incentive for that car?
I get it with the Scirocco
because it's meant to be like a performance car, but.
Well, that motor was also using a GTI that time.
I mean, you buy a GTI
and that wretched two points low in it.
Okay. Not wretched.
Uninspiring.
Uninspired.
Absolutely unacceptable engine for a GTI.
I'm going to say it's unacceptable for a Cabrio.
I mean, it's just a single cam, two valve versus a, come on.
That engine dated back to the 70s
and this is in the late 90s, so.
Okay. So Volkswagen shockingly cheated.
That's a big headline there.
A couple of times.
Okay.
So no one has ever heard or seen a Volkswagen
cheating ever before in testing of their vehicles.
No, they certainly read about it
on those diesel gate emissions, real world emissions tests.
So that brings me to a company that's also known to cheat.
Jason's making friends.
No. Okay.
So unrelated to any of this,
having nothing to do with cheating at all.
I also drag race the Ferrari a couple of weeks ago,
which is pretty amazing to do
because people lost their minds at the idiocy of me
showing up in a 50 year old Ferrari at a drag race.
Meanwhile, everyone's there in a 50 year old GM product.
Look, what's the difference?
The difference is of course.
Four times the camshafts.
That, probably a lot more money to build the engine.
Although some of these cars,
these guys have to spend crazy money in these cars
because they're big, low P crazy V8s that are.
Yeah, but I still bet that crazy money
for one of those motors is like 10 grand
instead of four grand.
I don't want to know what a,
what a rebuild of that Ferrari engine would cost me.
And also-
I hope you never have to find out.
Thank you.
Me too.
I also know that the way that engine is constructed,
the crankcase is also the transmission.
The casting.
Yes.
That whole casting is one piece.
And so I thought, all right,
you have a transverse transaxle design,
which means instead of the engine torque
stressing everything out,
it's axle torque stressing out,
which means 12 or 15 times engine torque in first gear.
So you dump a clutch in a rear wheel drive mid-engine.
You're not from a perspective of motor mounts and such?
Motor mounts and all the forces on the different turnals
and everything in that one unit.
I don't dump clutches in transverse rear wheel drive cars.
That's just insane
unless I'm doing it for testing purposes.
So I showed up at this thing going,
this car will bankrupt me
if I do a 7,700 RPM side step launch.
So I will go super gentle on this car.
And I beat all the magazine numbers without a launch.
So Ferrari was not cheating.
Yes.
Yes.
So very quickly,
because we'll get to the part where Ferrari is cheating.
I ran a 15 to 92 miles an hour.
All of the US magazine, the 1975 model year cars
were 15,4 and 16,1 at 91 and 86 miles an hour.
I was significantly faster without a launch
and at Sonomo, which is never fast.
For the record, the later cars,
which dropped from 240 horsepower down to 205
also did 16,0 at 89 and then 15,8 at 87.
So they really did significantly slow down
as the cars aged.
They also got 300 pounds heavier, strangely.
Allegedly.
No, no, no, these are actually magazines.
They actually weighed them.
Magazines always weigh something.
But I've always had the feeling
when I read the road tests of the original Eurospec cars
which are rated at 255 in horsepower.
Your car was light.
My car is light.
Somebody removed the US bumpers.
But when you read the road tests,
they talk about this ferocity of top end stuff
on the Euro cars and they don't on the US cars.
And so you own this car before I do.
Every, you've agreed that it's a healthy one
that pulls harder.
Every other one I've driven has felt slow to me.
All the US cars, not the Euro cars.
And so if I look at the one instrumented test
done by US standards, which means rollout is extracted
and weather correction, all that other shit,
was Rodentrack tested a Euro car,
exactly same spec as mine, but without air conditioning.
And it weighs a hundred pounds less than my car.
It did a 14.6 at 91.5.
So same exact speed that my car did,
but six tenths faster,
which tells me if I had launched my car,
it probably would have done about the same.
Therefore, I was right.
The early US cars without catalytic converters
are in fact, probably as performant as the Euro cars.
It depends how they're tuned.
I think in period in the US,
they might have been tuned differently
in order to be a little bit less stinky,
a little bit less pollutiony,
but now that this car has surely been tuned
in a way that's performance oriented
rather than emissions oriented.
I didn't do anything to it.
I'm in stock.
Yeah, but anyone who's ever touching the carburetors
on that car in any number of times
since it has ever had to be smogged.
I'm sure it's going to say,
well, we don't need to worry about smog anymore.
Let's make these things happy.
That is also true.
I mean, we live in now in the world of fuel injection
and you can't do anything, I guess,
with carbs and mechanical fuel injectors you can
and somebody could have certainly done advanced curving.
But I don't know, that made me very happy
that Ferrari actually outperformed its expectations.
In the, with the production customer car.
Yes.
Once upon a time.
In this one example, which brings me
to Chris Harris's complaint about Ferrari
and the 360 Modena and car and drivers complaint
about the 599.
You know about these?
Didn't Chris Harris be prevented
from testing Ferraris ever again
or for like 10 or 15 years as a result of this?
Well, and here's the thing.
Ferrari is incredibly sensitive about its brand
and it's obviously wants to look performance oriented.
Sporty, if you would use the German term.
Ferrari's not going to lose.
Ferrari's not going to make sure
they put their best foot forward.
Everyone I've spoken to at Ferrari has said
they like everyone else optimize, right?
They're going to choose the most powerful engine.
You know, they dine all the engines.
They're going to put the most powerful one in the car.
You know this. In the press car.
In the press car.
You know this because of Mercedes.
Uh-oh.
Do you not remember your,
did you not buy a weird silver E-class wagon
of blue tinted windows once?
Oh yes.
Yeah. And what did you find in it?
It was blue with blue windows and a blue interior.
I'm color blind.
Yeah. It had a get proofed motor in it.
Yes. So you found us.
It had notes of the factory build sheets
had notes in them which specified
that it was going to be a press car
and to put in a motor whose power output
had been verified.
Yes.
It's the direct quote of the term.
Verify that this is the most powerful motor
we've ever built.
Yeah.
Did they ever,
did you, you've driven other ones?
Is that car feeling different?
That's the only one I've ever driven.
Okay. That'd be interesting.
We did, so we had, when I was at automobile,
we got a Jaguar XK8.
That was a long, XK, sorry, XK,
which was a long term.
And when it arrived,
I went down into the parking garage
and we're all excited about it
because we had spec the car
and it was like, you know, delivery day.
And there was a piece of the footwell
that sort of above the footwell on the driver's side
was hanging down
and the center console hadn't been snapped together.
I mean, the build quality was just atrocious.
I got myself in a little bit of hot water on this
because I wrote in the notebook
that I would have burned a $10,000 Daihatsu
for interior quality like this
and our managing editor printed that
in the long-term wrap up.
The reason that I did that
could you even buy a Daihatsu at that time?
Probably not, no.
I don't even know.
Okay, anyway.
It would have been a Laganza.
No, Daiwu, maybe it was a Daiwu I said, I don't know, whatever.
The point was that the reason that I was so hard on it
is while I was in there fixing
all of the things that were broken
because I'm not gonna bring it back
to a dealership for this shit.
I found a sheet in there that said,
caution, this is a press car.
And they had names of people
who went through the whole thing to make it perfect.
And I thought if this is the best case
what are real customers winding up with?
I have no problem making that sort of comment.
So obviously car companies do note.
How was the performance?
I don't know, who knows?
I mean, probably, you know.
Fast enough to get you to the more gap.
Did that break?
Probably broke, I don't remember.
It was lovely, it was very pretty.
Don't like shit, but pretty.
So obviously car companies are gonna optimize
and they're gonna put their best foot forward.
That's just kind of the way it is.
Chris's observation was they tested a 360 Modena
that was two seconds faster from zero to 100
than a customer car was.
So they tested a customer car and a press car.
And he noted, and this does happen
that you are often when dealing with the Italians
you were given cars to drive and cars to test.
And so car and driver had this same thing happen
at Lamborghini when the Aventador came out.
They gave a car to Aaron Robinson,
who now I think works with us at Agri.
And I wanna say the car was like 4,064 pounds.
He went and drove the car and tested the car.
He was not allowed to drive.
And it was 4064, which is like insanely heavy.
And the test car was like 46 or 47,
36 or 3700 pounds.
So four or 500 pounds less.
I think it was three or four.
But some enormous number difference
that you're not gonna get from seats and equipment level.
That car had a different tub.
I mean, there's just no way
you were getting that kind of way savings.
But he did to his credit went out and snuck a test
with the Aventador who was not allowed to test.
And it still was just as fast.
So we were all like, what are you doing?
Like who cares?
Like just be fucking authentic and real and honest.
When the Ferrari 599 came out,
car and driver got a 3, 3 to 60 and then.
Regular 599.
Regular 599.
Not a GTO.
No, what was the 599?
GTB?
GTB, yes.
Because then there was the HGTE Furano.
And then there was eventually the GTO, which was.
Their 599 did 3, 3 to 60 and 11, 2 at 131
through the quarter mile.
Spicy.
Very spicy.
Especially for a front engine rear wheel drive car.
And the problem was,
the 11, 2 is the same number they got out of an Enzo
which weighed 691 pounds less
and had more horsepower, 650 versus 612.
There is no Ferrari came back and said,
it's shift time difference.
Okay.
The Enzo shifted in 150 milliseconds.
The 599 shifted in 100 milliseconds.
You're talking about 0.05 of a second per shift.
That is not gonna give you the advantage
enough of an accelerative advantage
to counter 691 pounds of extra mass.
They put an Enzo motor plus in that 599
was the only conclusion that I could come to
at the time.
Was there any other like proof to this engine thing?
No one I ever saw.
I don't know if anyone ever pulled it apart.
I mean, you're, so they were at Furano
when they tested this car.
So you're on Ferrari's test track.
It was slightly downhill when they tested Enzo.
Still the 599 matched its time.
Like that's the joke.
So yeah, we, I don't think this happens anymore.
Let me say that in defense of my ability
to get cars from these car companies.
Not that they give me them anyway.
But they, in the turbo era,
I don't think you have to cheat.
I think all these cars make so much fucking power.
It doesn't actually matter.
So they just give this much to the customers.
Yeah, I think they-
Good luck.
Yeah, good luck.
Here's 710 horsepower in your Pista.
Hope you have good insurance.
But, you know, so I always,
but I've read this from the outside
and I don't like the idea of cheating.
I don't like the idea that they cheated on the Characo.
I don't like the idea that they,
that I couldn't get close to the,
to their numbers on the Cabrio.
I don't like the 360 Modena story.
And I don't like the 599 story.
But here's the story I've never told.
I tested a Forfa V8 Spacciale
and it didn't feel fast.
So I was asked not to test the car by Ferrari.
This was a test car back in the day.
And I got out of it
and I drove a privately owned Forfa V8 Italia.
And it was-
Sorry, you had a Spacciale test car.
I had a Spacciale test car.
And I swapped, I brought it,
I was at a race track
and somebody just gave me the keys
to their Forfa V8 Italia
and said, tell me the difference.
The Italia was so slow
that I was like, wait a second,
something is really wrong here.
Cause the cars were, I think, 30 horsepower apart.
If I remember correctly, I think I wrote that down.
I think there was something like 30 horsepower apart
and it just didn't make sense to me
how fucking slow this guy's car was.
And so I just had a sneaking suspicion
and I slapped some test gear.
I don't have the horsepower numbers.
I thought I, yeah, 35 horsepower
between Forfa V8 and Spacciale.
And this guy's car was like so slow that I'm like,
I would have never given this a good review
like when it came out.
Like I would have just been like makes all the noise,
no power.
So I snuck a run or 10 in a little place,
a little dead end road that I had found
that's at sea level, great conditions.
And I brought all my actual testing equipment
and I ran the car both directions to win.
I did the full battery of acceleration tests.
This is the customer car.
No, I went back in the Spacciale
and tested the Ferrari press car.
And the Ferrari Spacciale was 1.7 seconds slower
from 60 to 120 than the Italia press car.
Base car.
The base car.
It should have been way faster.
It was 35 pounds.
It was a hundred and something pounds lighter
and 35 more horsepower with more aggressive everything.
Way more aggressive tires.
You know, when I look at zero to 60,
that the base Italia got was three seconds flat
that all the magazines got and I got three five.
And that's three five weather corrected
doing the same regimen that I would have done on an Italia.
And so I'm like, why is this so much slower?
A half a second to 60 is slow.
It's a big difference.
Why is it so much slower than the base car?
And then why was that customer car like pathetically slow?
And it just the only conclusion
that I could come to was on that one was like,
oh, maybe it's launched.
That's why I had a press car.
Then why was it slow?
It was, well, because I had a press car
that I was told not to test.
And that's the backside of the ability to cheat.
I shouldn't say the ability to optimize,
which is the word that Italians use.
But yeah, I mean,
if you take the launch out of the equation,
which is why I did 6,800.
So I have here a chart of zero to every speed
and you can see the differences between the two cars.
And it's just night and day.
Without question, the speciale that I tested
was way, way, way slower than the base Italia was.
And it shouldn't have been the case.
And so there you have one additional data point
from many years ago about-
More than a decade ago.
Past the statute of limitations.
Is it?
Well, I was in Mexico, so it doesn't really matter.
Right.
It was a dead end I found in Mexico.
Uh-huh.
No, it was a test track.
I mean, it was a little test track that I found
and that I used in is no longer available
for public consumption because I was caught on camera
and they put a boulder at the end of the road.
So you can't do that anymore.
But it was a flat section of road.
So anyway, there is some validity
to car companies cheating, which is upsetting.
I mean, I'm not surprised.
But I also out of the box, that car is hairy enough.
Like, I don't know.
Spiccialli?
Yeah.
Did you find it underwhelming?
I loved it.
I adored it.
It wasn't, I wish it was as fast as,
oh, I don't think anyone's ever tested a Spiccialli.
Really?
No.
I don't know if any magazines were ever allowed to test it
and that's why they would have had to build
a cheater, optimized car.
To do it.
Well, they did it for the Italia,
why not for the Spiccialli?
Well, because the Italia was all new
and the Spiccialli was probably all sold by the time.
I find it upsetting.
I mean, the narrative here is,
let me be very clear.
Ferrari stands on this should, is and should be publicly,
numbers don't matter.
Like, you are not buying a car.
It doesn't matter that that's the Italia.
Yeah, but Lamborghini says that
and then they give you optimized cars also.
Well, now they don't give me any cars at all.
Lamborghini feels very strongly
that their customers don't care about straight line speed.
That is literally what they told me.
I mean, I've seen a lot of standup comedy
and none of which was as funny as that.
Here's the question, should numbers matter?
I mean, they're all, they're all cheating
because of these numbers.
I mean, when you reach a certain threshold,
it kind of doesn't matter to me personally,
but that threshold is, you know, I don't know what it is.
Three and a half, four seconds, six seconds.
I don't know.
Whatever it is.
I mean, what's your fastest car?
I don't even know.
That's probably my 911.
Really?
The 964.
Faster than your like big Mercedes automatic.
Yeah, definitely.
The 911 is probably for nine or four, eight to 60.
Road and track tested, well, road and track.
Here we go again, was it optimized?
I'm sorry.
The factory quoted a five, seven.
And road and track's car was four, nine.
So the factory also is quoting the German conventions,
including roll out and the road and track test
presumably didn't.
There are a bunch of ways.
So the factory typically doesn't do zero to 60,
and German car companies,
they'll typically do zero to 62, so zero to 100.
And that does make a difference.
Often there's a, not often.
Occasionally there's a shift in there,
which will really screw everything up.
The US magazines ignore the first foot of roll out,
or in the case of car driver back then,
I don't know what road and track did.
They didn't do a foot of roll out,
they did three tenths of a second flat.
And also the car companies won't necessarily do the shit
that magazines do to get the numbers, right?
I mean, we do, did, do, I guess,
car drivers still test cars,
and I really appreciate that,
because it is a validation
of what the car companies claim.
God, the things that we do to cars.
I mean, and a 9-11 has a huge amount of rear traction.
So to launch your car, I would do,
what's the red line, 64?
Yeah.
I would probably do, I doubt you could spin the tires
on modern tires anyway.
Even then, I kind of doubt you can get much wheel spin.
So it would be a full red line, full throttle clutch slip,
aiming for the clutch to hook up right at about,
right before the power peak.
So 5,000, 5,200 somewhere in there.
I don't know where power peak goes in your car,
maybe 6,000, maybe even higher than that.
It would be horribly abusive.
And it's something you would do three times
on your own car, and then probably wanna replace
your clutch and flywheel.
It's horrible.
So yeah, of course they'll get a 4-9 out of it,
and you know, when Porsche's probably could get 5-2,
cause everyone who's doing that
is worried about losing their job.
For the magazine, we're like, oh, we blew it up,
take it back, give us another one.
Yeah. Anyway, that's my fastest car.
That's quick.
But I wonder what it is.
Quickest.
5-60, so car drivers 5-60 street start test
is actually the most brilliant test out there.
Cause what it is is you're rolling at five miles an hour.
They put a trigger on the gas pedal,
like a pressure trigger on the gas pedal.
And you have to be within,
I don't remember if it's 4-8 to 5-2
or 4-6 to 5-4 miles an hour.
And the trigger activates
when you slam your pedal on the gas.
So you're measuring the engine's reaction time also.
You're not just looking for the car to start accelerating.
And then there's a piece of software that they use
that normalizes that to 5.0 miles an hour.
And you do it a couple of times,
you average it and it's just that number.
And that takes the abuse of horrible launch out of it.
And some drivers are more abusive
and some are more sympathetic.
And I bet your car, if your car could pull a 4-9,
I bet it's actually a 6-1 or 6-2 car.
I remember when I would compare those numbers as a kid,
I'd be like huge difference,
not understanding what the difference was,
but knowing that there was a substantial difference.
We just, we're just doing research on the Mustang GTD,
which is an automatic, it's 8-speed automatic dual clutch
and eight or seven, I think it's eight.
Either way, dual clutch automatic with launch control
and all kinds of other shit on it.
And car and driver got a two eight out of it,
which I do believe is the fastest front engine rear drive
zero to 60 ever, certainly over there.
But that's not crazy.
What's crazy is the street start on that car is two nine.
Wow.
Two nine, that has to be the fastest accelerating.
Yeah, the smallest gap between the-
It's certainly the smallest gap.
I don't, oh, well, yeah.
Cause even Hellcats are two, three, four tenths of a second.
And they'd be the other one that's just wheel spin on demand.
So you can, you don't get that initial weight transfer.
So you lose a little bit of grip maybe,
but I don't think I've ever seen anything
internal combustion get under three and a half seconds
street start, nothing.
So that's clearly in the real world,
one of the fastest accelerating cars off the line,
two-wheel drive cars, or period.
I mean, two eight, two nine, I mean, you're getting,
you're looking at plaid is the only way you're being that.
No Ferrari would touch that, not even V12 stuff.
I wonder how they do it.
815 horsepower, short gearing,
that crazy push rod suspension, none of you've seen that.
So this GTD is a Mustang, but it's also as a track with
I think that is four inches wider than the regular one.
So the entire body is they start with a,
it's also $370,000.
Let me say 400 with options,
but they use a regular Mustang, EcoBoost,
like rental car, body and white,
chop it completely up and do an all new carbon fiber body
on it that's way wider.
They replace the front strut suspension
with double wishbone, short long arm.
They replace the entire rear multi-link
with a push rod, bell crank,
insane, multi-mattox, bull valve,
active, everything rear suspension
that's just takes up the whole backseat
and basically have to trunk too.
And the car adds gains 400 pounds over the,
so it's 4,400 pound car.
But then they put the old GT500s supercharged 5.2 in there,
5.2, in there, boosted to 815 horsepower.
And so you do that.
Oh, oh, oh, sorry.
And then take the transmission, throw it out
and put a trans-axle in the back,
but not even just like, just move the transmission back.
They do a real trans-axle
where most of the transmission is behind the rear wheels.
So the car gets almost 50, 50 weight distribution.
So you have great- How's it boosted?
Supercharged. Supercharged.
Instant response, huge displacement,
massive torque, massive power,
short gearing, automatic- Massive traction.
Great traction, nuts.
I can't wait to drive one of these things.
It's happening shortly.
But yeah, 2.9 on a street start.
From a rear-wheel drive car now, unless it's really impressive.
I mean, and part,
one of the other benefits of that push-rod suspension
is they no longer have to fit in the suspension,
like the shocks and whatever else.
And so they can put 345 rear tires on the thing.
So it's got steam rollers on the back.
That's pretty wild.
Yeah, it's F40 sized.
Maybe F40s 335.
God, were they that big?
Yeah, in 1987.
Holy shit.
What was the Lamborghini LMO 2?
275s?
No, it was 3-something.
I want to say there were 355s.
3525s?
I don't know.
And were until recently,
and still, they were until recently,
the biggest tires ever put in any production car ever.
Is that OD or is that outer diameter or width?
No, I'm talking width.
And I think they were 355s.
Whatever.
I mean, when we had an LM in the studio,
we wanted to put it on Gojax to turn it around.
And I bought the extra large Gojax when we built the studio
because I knew at one point we'd have an LM in here.
Still doesn't fit.
We had to drive it around, drive it outside,
turn it around and bring it back in.
Enormous.
What do you mean, ugh, it's a V12.
You get to do it.
You know, you want to drive an LM.
Yeah, but just the reality of using it.
Yeah, I didn't mind that.
I did the reality of having to air this place out
from the fumes was something different.
But yeah, anyway, I find the whole optimizing issue upsetting.
Yeah, I mean, things are not as they seem.
Yeah.
What else is new?
I mean, do you think one of your customers would be upset
for to find out that their Spiccialli
was actually slower than a test to Italia?
Or do they just not care?
It varies person to person.
Some people would be annoyed.
Other people would be like,
it doesn't matter, I'm not going to edit.
Most of them don't really cane the car in that way anyway.
They're too worried about how that would adversely
affect the value.
Really?
I can't imagine buying,
I mean, not necessarily launch control,
but I can't imagine buying a Ferrari
and not runlining it.
It seems like a-
It's scary.
It's under warranty.
No, no.
Like the Spicciall sensation is scary.
Oh.
Fast, rear wheel drive, scary.
Don't they all drive clads every day?
Yeah, I don't know.
Do you find that supercar buyers are like driving EVs
every day for a speed thrills or no?
It varies.
It's really, really variable.
Mm-hmm.
Like some people are, you know,
it really depends how much money
and how big their collection is.
But yeah, yeah, I mean,
some are be like, I'm driving a truck
or a Rivian or a Pladlesso.
Now, I'm sure.
Yeah, they have a sensible thing to drive around in daily.
They don't need the really insane daily.
I mean, anytime I've talked to Jay Leno,
he's like, you can't show up anywhere.
He's got a Spectre.
It's like, you can't show up anywhere in Rolls Royce.
I'm like, why not your Jay fucking Leno?
Like, what do you mean?
He's like, no, it's just obnoxious.
His daily's a Plad.
And then there's a guy around here locally
who had a Chiron and his daily was a smart ED.
And I just like an electric drive smart,
which I thought was hilarious.
And he was like, yeah, well, you know,
parking spots are small and I just.
Yeah, they're pragmatic about their daily vehicle choices.
I just love that.
Can you imagine somebody being like, you know,
this guy's like 87 years old.
Imagine like you fucking old, old man and your shit smart.
Get out of my way and then realize
he's just on his way to go pick up the Chiron
from the oil change.
Mm-hmm.
I love that.
Yep, it's definitely a thing.
I really like to be inconspicuous.
Nice to, you know, nice to take off your outfit
and Superman clothes and put on Clark Kent.
Disappear.
Disappear.
Do I have a gray golf?
That's not why I have a gray golf.
We know.
I tried to get in a good color, it didn't work.
Yeah, it didn't work.
Okay, well, cheating is a thing.
I'm sorry, optimizing is a thing.
Yes.
No, except Volkswagen.
Volkswagen, Volkswagen definitely cheated on the Chiraco
and I'm here to say that I am embarrassed
by my own performance in my horribly slow bitch basket.
Well, that's why you're gonna do motor swap.
Is there a period road test for that also?
With the VR6s?
Yes.
Swaps into?
Well, that's, here's the thing.
In Europe, they made a 2.9 liter VR6 in the Corrado.
So what's to say that the test cars weren't 2.9s
instead of the 2.8?
There was no exterior external differences,
I don't think.
Well, you need that.
You need a 2.9.
Damn you.
Yeah, good luck.
I can't do that.
No, I can't.
I'm not, I'm not.
I can buy a US car and punch it out to 3.1 though.
Oh, there you go.
And then, red line rebuild.
That'll blow his mind.
Everyone in Hagar, if you're listening to this.
You'll look at that cylinder head
and be like, what the fuck is this thing?
Well, actually that's one of the cars on the list
that we've talked about with red line.
Just because, while VR6s look so nuts,
when you open them up.
Yeah, it'll certainly blow your mind
if you're used to looking at cars
and then you get in there and you're like,
what are they doing?
What are they doing?
It's wild, yeah.
But yeah, no, I don't think,
I think once the Rover is back from the red line rebuild
to him, they probably will never want to hear from me again.
Well, hopefully the motor sticks together.
I thought you were going to take the advantage
and be like, most people don't want to hear from you again.
Like our listeners won't.
After you've sat here in vomited numbers
and quarter mile stuff,
you're coming drag racing with me next time?
Nope.
Why?
I think I'd rather go to dinner.
This episode of We Hate Everything, including cars,
is brought to you by Derek Tamp-Scott.
I'm going to have.
You're welcome.
See you next week.
On The Karma Dunge Show.
On The Karma Dunge Show.
About this episode
Derek and Jason dive into the controversial topic of manufacturers optimizing test data, equating it to cheating. They discuss historical examples, including Volkswagen's notorious emissions scandal, and share personal anecdotes from their own testing experiences. The conversation also touches on the performance of various cars, including a drag racing experience with a Volkswagen Cabrio, and the surprising results of testing a Ferrari. The duo debates the ethics of performance testing and the implications of manufacturers' practices on consumer trust.
Original notes
Whether it's going racing or producing zero to sixty times, many car manufactures have spent decades doing whatever it takes to get a competitive edge on their performance figures. But in a world of democratized speed where your average EV truck or SUV can do an 11 second quarter mile, does anyone still value the numbers? And at what lengths will manufactures go to keep their performance figures competitive?
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This episode of the Carmudgeon Show is sponsored by Vredestein Tires:
https://www.vredestein.com/
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Before digging into the data, Jason discusses his recent trip to the Wednesday Night Drags at Sonoma Raceway - garnering some rather unusual attention in his MK3 Volkswagen Cabrio with the almighty 2.slow . Upon laying down several solid runs, he finds his mid 18 second quarter mile times are far more lethargic than what Volkswagen reported in period.
This prompts the larger discussion at hand - historically speaking, do manufactures cheat or "optimize" their test data? Jason brings in his own previous findings, first by exploring the testing of his MK1 Volkswagen Scirocco, and wondering how his test figures could be more than a second off from the official numbers.
More glaring however is the data from Jason's in-period testing of the Ferrari 458 Speciale and 458 Italia, as well as the 599 GTB - the likes of which far out-performed cars in magazine testing vs. cars that were delivered to real-world customers.
All this and more, on this week's episode of The Carmudgeon Show.
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The Carmudgeon Show
Hagerty Media
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