Classic Auto Mall - #231 - Stewart Howden with Guests Steve Erlichman + Keith Martin
Classic Auto Mall SHOW
Classic Auto Mall - #231 - Stewart Howden with Guests Steve Erlichman + Keith Martin
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Car
Buick Grand National
The Buick Grand National is a fast car made by Buick in the 1980s. It has a powerful engine and is known for its black color, making it a favorite among car fans.
Car
Porsche 907
The Porsche 907 is a classic race car from the 1960s. It's famous for being very light and fast, and it competed in many important races.
Concept
Rolex 24
The Rolex 24 is a famous car race that lasts for 24 hours. It takes place at a big racetrack in Daytona, Florida, and many different types of race cars compete in it.
Concept
24-hour race
A 24-hour race is a car race that lasts for a full day. Teams of drivers take turns racing the cars, and it's very difficult to win because of how long and challenging it is.
Car
Porsche 911
Term
cam chain tensioner
A cam chain tensioner helps keep a part of the engine tight so it works properly. If it breaks, it can cause big problems for the engine.
Car
Porsche 935
The Porsche 935 is a special racing car that was built to compete in races. It's based on a popular model called the Porsche 911 and is known for being very fast and successful in competitions.
Concept
drag racing
Drag racing is a fast car race where two cars go straight down a track to see which one is faster. It's all about how quickly they can go from start to finish.
Concept
F1
F1 stands for Formula 1, which is a very fast and high-tech type of car racing. The cars are specially built to be super quick and compete on different tracks around the world.
Concept
NASCAR
NASCAR is a type of car racing where specially designed cars race on circular tracks. It's very popular in the U.S. and known for exciting races and fast cars.
Company
Holbert
Holbert was a car dealership that sold many cars, especially sports cars, and was well-known in the automotive community.
Company
Brumos
Brumos is a well-known car dealership that sold Porsches and was also involved in racing, making it popular among car enthusiasts.
Part
ring and pinion
The ring and pinion are gears that help your car's wheels turn. They work together to move power from the engine to the wheels, making your car go forward or backward.
Car
Porsche 924
The Porsche 924 is a car made by Porsche that was built between 1976 and 1988. It's known for being a more affordable sports car with the engine in the front, unlike many other Porsches that have engines in the back.
Term
bulletproof
When someone says a car is 'bulletproof', they mean it's very reliable and won't break down easily. It's like saying the car is tough and can handle a lot of use without problems.
Term
rotisserie
A rotisserie is a tool that helps you turn a car over so you can easily work on the bottom of it. It's like a big stand that holds the car and lets you spin it around.
Term
roll cage
A roll cage is a strong metal frame inside a car that helps keep people safe if the car flips over or crashes. It makes the car stronger and safer for racing.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The more horsepower an engine has, the faster and stronger the car can go.
Car
Porsche 944
The Porsche 944 is a type of sports car made by Porsche. It's known for being fun to drive and has a unique look. It was made in the 1980s and early 1990s.
Concept
GTP
GTP is a type of racing for very fast sports cars that are built specifically for competition. These cars are designed to be super quick and are often seen in long races.
Term
Le Mans
Le Mans is a famous car race that lasts for 24 hours. Cars race around a track, and the goal is to go as far as possible in that time.
Car
Ford Maverick
Term
Daytona
Daytona is a well-known racetrack in Florida where many important car races happen. It's famous for events like the Daytona 500, which is a big race in NASCAR.
Concept
Trans Am series
The Trans Am series is a type of car racing in North America where different cars compete against each other. It's popular and has been around for a long time, showcasing many different kinds of cars.
Car
Nissan Gtr
The Nissan Skyline GT-R is a powerful sports car that is famous for its speed and performance. It's well-known in car racing and has a strong following among car enthusiasts.
Brand
Ferrari
Ferrari is a famous car brand from Italy that makes very fast and expensive sports cars. They are known for their bright red color and racing heritage.
Company
Hagerty
Hagerty is a company that helps people insure their classic cars. They also have magazines and events for car lovers.
Car
Mercedes-Benz S65 Coupe
The S65 Coupe is a fancy car made by Mercedes-Benz. It's known for being very powerful and luxurious, often featuring a big engine and lots of high-end options.
Car
Acura CL
Car
Mercedes-Benz CL 55
The Mercedes-Benz CL 55 is a fancy two-door car from 2006 that looks normal but can be very fast. Many people don't realize how powerful it is just by looking at it.
Car
Tesla Cybertruck
Car
G-Class Gwagon
Term
MSRP
MSRP is the price that car makers suggest dealers sell their cars for. It's just a suggestion, so dealers can charge more or less if they want.
Car
Porsche 356
Concept
SEMA show
The SEMA show is a big event where companies show off new car parts and accessories. It's important for people who work in the car industry to see what's new and exciting.
Car
Mercedes-Benz C 43
The Mercedes-Benz C 43 is a sporty version of the C-Class sedan. It has a stronger engine and better handling, which makes it fun to drive while still being comfortable for everyday use.
Car
Volvo S60
Car
Dodge Polara
Car
Dodge Polara
Car
Ford Mustang Gt
Car
Chrysler 300
Car
Ford Thunderbird
Car
Lotus Elise
Car
Chevrolet Spin
Car
Chevrolet Nova
Car
Lucid Air
Car
Datsun 510
LIVE
This is the Classic Automall Show.
Broadcast from the studios inside the Classic Automall in Morgantown, Pennsylvania.
Just one hour west of Philadelphia at Pennsylvania Turnpike Exit 298.
Featuring nearly 1,000 classic vintage and barn-fine vehicles for sale under one climate-controlled roof.
Now, here's your host, Classic Automall President and the man with all the toys, Stuart Howden.
And welcome show number 231.
For those of you keeping score at home.
Hello.
Hello.
It's a good engine.
It's like a 231.
A Buick at a V6 Grand National.
It was a 231.
I had an oddball.
I don't think they came up with that.
Let's see, should we call it 231 or whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes.
A little extra.
What was a 31?
Oh, 3.6.
3.8 liter.
3.8 liter.
That's right.
And before we get to our guests, we'll do our question of the day or a question of the
week.
How many cars in inventory?
Steve, go first this week.
I'm going to stick with my question.
Oh, it's a Porsche reference there.
Oh, okay.
I'm going to go 907.
Okay.
There are.
I'm going to go 908 just because I'm going to do it.
Bing, bing, bing.
Winner, winner.
Hey!
This is the Classic.
And he played his voice again.
Is he going to get extra royalties for that?
Too many sound effects.
Too many different clappings.
There you go.
I know.
There's too much.
Let's get our guest.
We have Joining Us in the Studio, which is rare.
We don't have people joining us in the studio very often.
Most often they're on Zoom or some form of that or the telephone.
Yeah, this is a rare occasion.
Nice to have somebody in the studio with us.
Yeah, I had to be here.
Show up.
Show up or you'd be kicked out of the club.
That's right.
Joining us, Steve Erlichman, automotive enthusiast, former pit crew member.
Collector, purveyor, dealer of Automobilia.
Consultant, salesperson, historian, freelance writer, anything that I missed there.
That's plenty.
That'll give us plenty of time.
Overall car geek, I guess.
I can see that with your Rolex 24 day tonus.
Yeah, fresh from the Rolex 24.
Were you there this year?
I go every year.
Wow.
How much of the actual race do you watch?
How much can you actually take in?
In the old days, I used to stay almost all night when I was a kid.
Right.
You know, I'd climb up in the grandstands, and I think one time I made it to like 2,
3 a.m.
Wow.
The one year where I was working for Al Holbert on the pit crew, I was stuck out at the old
signal piss.
Oh, so there's not much sleep in there.
Cyberia, and the car broke at 2 a.m., thank goodness.
It's way colder in Daytona that time of year than people realize.
Especially overnight.
But no, this year I stayed till the fireworks, which was 10 p.m.
But fog rolled in.
In fact, they yellow flagged the race for six hours because of the fog.
And the fireworks were like, where are they?
They're up there.
They're somewhere.
We're hearing them.
We're not seeing them.
So I left after that.
You know, I'm an old guy, so I was back at my hotel sleeping while they yellow flagged
the race for six hours.
Yeah.
Good timing.
And of course, you know, an obvious win with Pinsky and Porsche.
Once again, three years in a row.
That's, you know, people don't realize the significance of how hard that is to do on
a 24-hour race to win it three years in a row.
It's staggering.
Especially that this year was a completely new driver crew, except for one.
Except for one guy.
So, you know, they're a well-oiled machine, but the wheel and Cadillac ran them hard
at the end.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's funny how you go 24 hours and they're that close at the end, way closer than a F1
race after two hours.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's where I love endurance racing.
Yeah, I do too.
I like it because somehow they manage to stay close and they keep it close and they don't
have to do some silly rule thing that, you know, creates unnecessary drama or whatever
you want to call it.
So, what got you started going to Daytona?
Did you just randomly say, I want to go to Daytona?
No, no.
I was sent there.
It's like a military school.
Steve has heard this story.
I was working for Al Holbert as a salesperson.
Right.
And this was 1979.
I'd been there about a year and I got a call from him from the track.
Week before the race, the Wednesday before the race, Tuesday before the race.
Odd call, right?
Yeah.
And what are you doing this week?
Well, I'm trying to sell some cards for you.
Yeah.
He said, well, you know, we got the, you know, this silver 75, 9, 11 out there said, yeah,
I know it.
He said, well, I sold it.
I sold it to a photographer and he's here in Daytona and we need the car brought down
here and we were going to have one of the kids in the shop do it.
Right.
And he got napped for speeding at 110 miles an hour over on route 263.
So, he's not going to do it.
So, how would you like to do it?
And I said, what?
Drive it down to Daytona.
He said, yeah, get here by 4 p.m. on Saturday before the race starts.
And, you know, and you and Doc Bundy will drive the motor home.
Of course.
So, I said, why not?
You know, I was like, a lot of fun.
22 years old, stupid.
So, I, you know, grabbed the 9-11 and ran home, grabbed a bag and my camera and drove nonstop.
Well, I stopped for about two hours because I was being chased by a cop.
And I hid behind a tree here.
I hid behind a gas station for two hours.
They never think to look there.
No, never.
Never.
I had to pee anyway.
Right.
So, double head sword.
So, I took a couple of, you know, a couple of hours of sleep.
And those back in the days where 95 was not clean yet.
Right.
Oh, that's right.
I had to get off on the surface road in Georgia.
South Carolina.
South Carolina.
So, after like two hours of shut-eye, I barreled down and then getting off of 95 right at
the racetrack.
A half hour after the race started, I hear that telltale sound coming from the back of
an old 9-11 of a cam chain tensioner collapsing.
No.
But I knew what it was and I knew what to do.
In those days, they had a hand throttle, which was seat.
So, I pulled up the hand throttle to like 3500 RPM and kept it at that and drove over to
the track entrance where there was supposed to be a credential waiting for me, which of
course, there wasn't.
Right.
Somebody forgot that.
Yep.
And so, I, you know, I'm sitting there and are, okay, what am I going to do now?
All right.
I'll buy a general admission ticket.
Right.
And I'll walk in and I'll try and find everybody.
And just then, Al and Bob Holbert come driving out of the tunnel.
Al and Doc Bundy were driving at 935 for another driver that broke.
And so, they were headed to dinner.
So, I said, hey, I'm here.
I made it.
I said, oh, terrific.
Go on.
Climb in.
We'll go to dinner.
And I said, well, you know, of course, making a noise.
I think it's a chain tensioner.
So, great.
Did it fail?
No.
It's about two.
Right.
Okay.
All right.
Let's go to dinner.
You and Doc will drive it up to Brumos on Monday in Jacksonville.
Right.
So, that's exactly what we had dinner.
Which was a pretty good, I mean, it's not, you know, next door.
It was 100 miles.
Yeah.
Which is a lot to ask for the chain tensioner to survive.
So, Doc and I flipped the coin.
Who's going to drive the car?
Who's going to drive the motor home?
Doc drove the car.
Oh, nice.
And Al and Bob threw home that night.
Not to extend this story anymore, but I went back.
You know, they dropped me off at the track.
I walked back inside and found the motor home and figured,
I'm just going to go to sleep.
I'm tired.
So, you know, I just fell asleep and there's a noise at the door.
And I look over and there's a hand coming through the door trying to reach the latch.
And I'm like, what the heck was that?
So, you know, I opened the door and look and there was an old racer named Steve Bear.
Who you raced with?
B-A-E-R.
B-E-H-R.
Oh, Bear.
Steve Bear.
He raced with Mike Kaiser.
I'm one of the toad haul guys.
Right.
And he's trying to get in with a girl.
Because he figured that Al's gone.
He knew that Al and Doc weren't using it.
I mean, Doc was off.
Who knows where.
Sure.
So, he's trying to get in with this girl.
And I opened the door and he's like, whoa, who are you?
I said, well, you know, I'm, blah, blah, blah.
I said, oh, okay, I'll go somewhere else.
Yeah.
Cause I'm not going to put up with that.
So, did you watch any of the race while you were there?
I did.
I did.
I woke up and I grabbed my camera and went right into the pits.
And that was the year that Danny Angaius was driving the Interscope car.
Oh, Danny on the gas.
Quit right before, you know, like two laps to go.
It quit at start finish.
So he did a, did a Dan Gurney.
He stopped, had enough of a lead.
And when they threw the checkered flag, he got it across the line on the starter.
Wow.
And I was right there in the pits.
And in those days, we just walked out onto the grass.
Yeah.
Well, and because people don't realize that, you know, the attendance to a 24 hour race
versus like a NASCAR race is night and day.
I mean, there's lots of empty space and people aren't quite as.
And it's all in the infield.
Yeah.
And people aren't worried about stuff like that as they used to be.
That's, you know, it's, it's one of the things that separates some racing forms
from other drag racing always comes to mind because they were always so good at opening
up the pits and that whole center area to the general mission ticket, you get to see
the pits.
How cool is that?
You know, not every racing discipline lets you do that, you know, NASCAR, you don't
get to do that.
F1 doesn't, NASCAR doesn't, but sports car racing, and that's, that's one of their
big marketing things is that you come into the, you may have to pay extra for it, but
you get into the garage area.
But everybody's part of the team.
So selling cars for Holbert back in 79, you almost been moving a lot of iron back then.
No, not yet.
Really?
We were still a small dealership.
We were probably the third most famous dealership in the country.
Behind Brumos and Vashik Polak.
So people came to us from around the country and had some, we had some great mechanics.
Sure.
Including Al's cousin, Bobby, who could work on any Porsche.
And so there were lots of people coming to us, we would sell 30, 40 cars a month.
There were three of us as salesmen.
When Brumos would be selling, what, 100 at the time?
No, they were probably doing 50 or 60.
So you weren't far off.
Yeah.
The biggest dealer in the country in those days was in DC, HBL in Vienna, Virginia.
Oh, I don't remember them.
Yeah.
In fact, when I told Al I wanted to buy a 911 for myself, he said that you can't afford
a 911, I pay you.
No, I can't afford it.
So no, I can.
I got financing.
He says, all right, we'll go down to HBL and buy it because they get more cars than
we do.
Yeah, I don't want to give up one of our 911s.
Yeah, I don't want to give up one of our 911s.
So eventually I talked him into it when I realized that having a salesman with a $600
a month payment is not a bad idea.
Yeah, he's probably, you're not going anywhere for a while.
He got a car payment to make, $600.
And I still have the car.
Do you really?
And what is it?
$79,911 SC.
Oh, and what color?
Black.
Black and black.
When black was special order.
Yeah.
And Al got some things on it for me that were only available on turbos, like headlight
washers, a black roof liner, and that's an heirloom.
How many miles on it?
151.
Wow.
I drove it.
You drove it.
You still drive it?
I do.
It's on a battery maintainer.
It's always ready to go.
I can't not drive it.
Right.
So after taking the car down there, did Al see, you know, hey, this guy may be more
involved in the racing side of it, or how did that kind of transfer?
Yeah.
He realized that I was a sucker.
Yeah.
And it could work for low money and.
Right.
Exactly.
You know, he died work six days a week, sometimes with a day off, 12 hour days.
And you know, he'd walk up to my desk the day before my day off.
What are you doing tomorrow?
That's my day off.
Yeah.
What are you doing?
I didn't have any plans.
Well, how about running out to Lamont Gear out in wherever and pick up this ring and
pinion?
Oh, okay.
I can do that.
And if you drop it, don't come back.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, stuff like that.
Sure.
But I, you know, I'd come out to my desk and there'd be a boxed jacket on my desk.
Right.
You know, when he ordered Holbert Racing Jackets for everybody, he ordered one for me.
So yeah, he paid me.
You're part of the team.
I was.
Yeah.
I was.
And was part of the 924 project.
The DP 924?
Yeah.
Yeah.
In fact, I was right in that from the beginning.
That was, Al was a big enthusiast of the 924.
Why?
I mean, what made him like that?
I don't know.
Because the early 924 was not a very nice car.
Not much power.
No power.
Yeah.
It had a Volkswagen truck engine.
Right.
Well balanced, good-looking and comfortable.
Reliable?
Extremely.
Yeah.
They were bulletproof.
Yeah.
They were bulletproof.
And we sold a lot of them.
Excuse me, because it was, it was $99.95 was the base price.
And red was a good color on those.
Red, yellow, whatever one, whatever.
And he had us all driving them as demos.
So we did sell some and it improved a little bit with the turbo, but Al decided he wanted
to give the car a reputation and Porsche was kind of on board, but not with a big budget.
So he made a deal with the racing director here in the U.S., a guy named Joe Hoppin,
to start this program.
And Porsche agreed to build a kit that could be shipped in a, like in a knockdown form,
be assembled here.
At the dealers.
By Holbert Racing.
Right.
And then sold as a turnkey, the production car.
Oh.
So they did a prototype of that, sent that over, Al evaluated it and didn't like it.
So he gave them ideas of what to do to make it better.
And Joe Hoppin gave them a Street 924 that had been a road test car, EP8 test car, had
the crap beat out of it.
So on my day off, he sends Doc and I up to North Jersey to get this car 280,000 miles
on.
You know, rattling down the Jersey turn, like of course Doc made me drive that.
Of course.
He lost that toss.
Yeah.
And we turned that into the deep production national champion.
Wow.
There was very little budget, so they recruited me after I'd worked 12 hours, I'd go out
back to the race shop, change into jeans and a t-shirt and the car was on a rotisserie
and with torches and scrapers, we'd scrape off the undercoating and we got the car down
to bare metal.
They put a roll cage in it, got an engine from a guy named Caldwell, who later would
go on to build Toyota engines and was two guys on their crew.
What was that?
There was a horsepower of that car back there.
I think they estimated that the racing engine was about 175.
Yeah.
Which, I mean, if you take all the heavy stuff out of a 9.4, it's probably fairly light
in its core.
I think the car got down to like 1700 pounds with everything scraped off of it and God,
it was reliable.
It was bullet proof and Doc won every race that he entered with it, won the national
championship at the runoffs.
And then they started selling kits.
They sold four or five, nine, 24 kits.
I sold one to a guy.
To you mean a consumer or other racers?
Yeah, other racers.
Yeah, racers started contacting us and the shop was furiously building, putting these
kits together and these guys would come and pick them up.
And then the Herman and Miller guys up in Jersey, they bought a kit and they won the
championship the next year.
So they were very happy, the 9.24 project.
And Rick Mears was driving for the 9.24 team back then, right?
Yeah.
What happened there was Al drove the 9.24 GTP, part of a three car team at LeMolne, and
he was supposed to drive with Peter Gray.
And Peter had a road accident Thursday with the race.
In France or?
In France.
And fortunately, it led to taking his own life because he had double vision F, wasn't
able to drive, obviously wasn't able to race.
Worst thing ever to have to do a racer.
Well, and to a high achiever like him.
Right, right.
I mean, he had just.
He'd better be better off blind than double vision.
He had just gotten married.
He had the dealerships.
He was a world-known racer and if he couldn't race, he didn't want to live.
So they recruited Derek Bell to drive with Al in this 9.24 GTP and all three cars finished.
Number one.
Which is amazing.
One, it's class.
Yeah, for a brand new car with still an Audi based engine.
Right.
So Al bought the car that he drove and they shipped it over to Holbert Racing and ran
it at Daytona in 81 with Al, Doc, and Rick Maverick.
And then the plan was to race that in the Trans Am series with Doc, but then Al decided,
no, we're going to take a GTR, 9.24 GTR and improve it.
So they actually raced both cars, Doc drove one, Al drove one for a couple of races and
then Al sold the car with a GTR to Bruce Levin, Bayside Disposal, for he and Hurley
Haywood.
Yeah, the Bayside.
I love that.
That was a great livery.
Trash guy.
Yeah, the trash guy.
He was a character.
Oh man, there's a lot of characters back then.
We were talking about Preston Hinn from T-Bird Swap Shop and all these guys.
So you, but you kind of helped, you got involved with Porsche and more corporate as well too
at one point.
Corporately, not really.
Corporately Al was with Mercedes-Benz.
Right.
But I mean, didn't you write some contributing stuff to the Porsche magazine?
I did.
Yeah.
There were a couple of magazines that were published.
There's a Ferrari magazine called Cavalino.
Yeah.
Is it still around?
It is.
It's owned by Haggerty now.
No kidding.
It was, yeah.
It was created by a guy named John Barnes, an artist, and he decided to do a Porsche
magazine.
Right.
So there was a woman that I knew from the Porsche Club named Suzanne Miller, also a
writer.
So she was set up as editor and she was looking for contributors.
So I jumped in and I wrote a bunch of articles for a magazine called Gamoon.
Gamoon, I remember.
GamoonD.
It ran for, I don't know, I guess about four years.
Did you have a writing background or did you just know?
I had a mentor.
There was a guy named Al Bachrock who wrote a book with the Halberds.
Right.
Just a basic racing book.
He was a world-renowned writer, worked for Road and Track, wrote a number of books.
So you could send him something and he could give you a little bit of...
He mentored me.
Right.
And I developed a style based on the way he wrote.
Then we later co-authored a book on the Trans Am series together.
And so, yeah, I wrote for this run magazine and then Suzanne started publishing a annual
based on the old Porsche Sport annuals that were contracted back in the 70s.
Wow, yeah.
So we did that for a few years.
So, yeah, that was fun.
And I used to get paid in books.
I still have a box of books somewhere.
When did Porsche and Audi stop being a thing?
When was that?
Did they split at some point in time?
What was...
How did that work exactly?
In 1984, Porsche had the brilliant idea to take possession, take ownership of all of
their dealership, which is illegal in the open.
Right.
I was going to say, didn't that bring some franchise law that maybe pesky franchise laws?
I thought they would get around it.
And I was working for another dealer at that point across town.
So my dealer and Al Holbert got together, got in Al's airplane and flew up to Detroit
where they were based, where Volkswagen of America was based and threatened and said,
you can't do this.
We'll sue the hell out of you, blah, blah, blah.
And they said, well, we're going to do it anyway.
So they set up a headquarters in Reno, Nevada.
Oh, wow.
Well, because that makes sense.
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
Germany being already six hours.
Yeah, then you had the whole go across the United States.
Yeah, smart.
That made a lot of sense.
Brilliant.
So they sent termination notices to all the dealers and they were going to set up regional
dealerships and big metro areas and these franchisees would have rights to do service
and could sell from a centralized inventory.
A brumos must have been furious as well.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
I mean, Peter was gone by then, but Bob Snodgrass had taken over the dealership.
They were absolutely furious.
And there was a huge lawsuit and Porsche, of course, had to back off of that.
But they did split from Volkswagen of America.
They did set up Porsche Cars North America in Reno, kept their dealers.
And they still exist.
They're in Atlanta now and obviously have been successful.
So maybe Porsche is selling five times in cars these days with the SUVs.
And I think then they did back then.
But that was a pretty stupid.
Yeah.
But, you know, sometimes the worst late ideas are things that maybe in the long term, maybe
work or don't work.
You don't always know.
Yeah.
Well, they looked at the model in Europe and a lot of the manufacturers, particularly
today, like for instance, Mercedes-Benz owns almost all of their cars.
In England, they own all of them.
And it's not against the law there.
No, it's not.
They don't have franchise law.
Crazy.
You'd think that they would.
But, you know, they probably didn't have as many franchise type businesses over there.
It was more individually owned type.
Every business over in Europe used to be kind of in.
There was no chain.
No.
There wasn't a row of 7-Elevens.
No.
They didn't have dealer groups.
There were, you know, there were families that were connected, you know, like Porsche
was on the dealer network.
You know, they went to their racer in Holland, Ben Pahn.
So he became their importer there.
And, you know, here in the U.S., it was all about Max Hoffman.
Sure.
So, yeah, that's the way it worked.
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah.
It makes perfect sense now when you think back about it, right?
Yeah.
So, you talked about, you worked for Mercedes in the AMG program.
I'm a huge AMG Mercedes fan.
I mean, a huge, I just sold my S65 Coupe Twin Turbo V12 and I'm kicking myself every day
for doing black, black, 16, black, black.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
Oh, you should have kept that.
You know, that was my favorite company car.
I had a 63.
Yeah.
That was black and black.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
That obsidian black and that Napa black interior.
And that car.
And what I loved about the Coupe, the S65 and prior to that, the CL versions, which I
have a CL 55, 2006, I like them is that not many people really know what they are.
They're one of those cars that people look at and go, oh, okay.
They're sleepers.
They don't really understand.
But if they do know, and especially the sound that that S65 Coupe, when you fired that
thing up, it's just funny to watch in the rear of your mirror.
That was all part of the AMG startup signature.
That was on purpose.
Right.
And when we used to, my job was to go into dealers and do training.
And we always started the car up that we brought in.
Made sure that.
Made sure that, first of all, the dealership was just empty over where the car was.
Sure.
That's all part of it.
And it's got to make a bang.
And it did.
I mean, it made the sound like no other sound you've ever heard come out of a car before.
And, you know, like a great, like you said, what a great selling point.
I mean, what a great thing to tell a potential buyer.
This is what people are going to hear that are standing behind your car.
I watched salespeople use it as a closing.
Sure.
You know, I used to stand, like to stand on the show and watch them sell and watch them
learn a lot about the process.
And so more than once, I pull a salesperson over and say,
just almost have them go get the key and get it started.
Let them be standing in the back.
And you could see them.
Yeah. And AMG was a private layer, not necessarily privately, but they were a
separate company from Mercedes-Benz when they first started.
And they were just modifying no different than a lot of.
They were tuners. Yeah, they were tuners.
They both worked at Mercedes-Benz as engineers.
And, you know, Mercedes-Benz engines were way over-engineered
and under-performing. Right.
So they saw the potential.
And the engine guy, who was the M in AMG,
he had Mausia. Right.
He just came up with his own cylinder head design, four valve.
You know, this was back in the 70s. Right.
The company was formed in 76.
It's funny to see those old 70s modified cars that were done back in there.
They were kind of crude looking, but cool.
Yeah. Yeah.
Actually, the company was formed in 67 and they made a name for themselves
when they ran a big 300 SEL on the Spa 24 hour race.
6.3 6.3 that finished second overall.
That's when they made their name and they just started getting business
got closer and closer to Mercedes.
And in the mid 90s, Mercedes bought into the company
and they started selling their cars through their ships.
And in 2005, they took it over completely.
And that's when I was brought into a project.
Right. They wanted to start here in the U.S.
with setting up a group of high performing dealers in big markets
who sold a lot of AMGs and they were going to make them performance.
Right. And with a little investment from the dealer
for a display and a commitment to training.
And the originally signed up 25 dealers and myself and another trainer
were recruited to go around the country and speed and give them targeted training
so they'd understand what they're getting into.
Exactly. Exactly.
To build the value and elevate the customer experience.
Right. And it grew to over 100 dealers.
And we added two more trainers became the model for worldwide training for AMG.
And I retired from MBUSA.
I was an MBUSA employee, but AMG paid half my salary.
So I retired from MBUSA in 17.
And then AMG hired me as a consultant directly.
Well, it worked out pretty good.
It worked out terrific.
They paid great.
I didn't have to go to a general manager for international travel.
Right. Google all that.
Here you're going to Beijing.
Here's a business class ticket. Just go. Right.
So I did that for about four years directly with AMG.
Were the dealers reluctant of AMG at first?
Did they think it was going to hurt them or not help them?
And was there ever any kind of feeling like, oh, we're having to do something.
Maybe this wheeler won't work or this wheeler.
No, the dealers that we pitched it to were the dealers that sold a lot of them anyway.
They knew they knew.
And they were very profit. Sure.
And they were extremely loyal customers.
They'd have three, four of them.
Right. You know, there'd be a Porsche in the garage or a Ferrari in the garage, too.
But they drove an AMG every day. Right.
And, you know, the spouse drove an AMG and they'd buy one for the kids.
So, you know, incredibly wealthy demographic and very loyal customer.
And, you know, it was a Mercedes Benz, but it was fast.
But it was fast. And they weren't known for that.
No, they were not.
It was funny. We were, I was just in California.
And we were talking about the pecking order of cars that you see in California are
Tesla, Coop or Tesla Sedan, Tesla Cybertruck and G-Wagon.
I know. It's goes from.
Oh, my God, the G-Wagon. Everybody loves the G-Wagon.
I don't. I don't. They don't drive that nice.
They don't drive. They don't drive nice at all.
But when you consider what they were made for.
Right. They were they were utility trucks.
They were, you know, it was it was the Shah of Iran commissioned Daimler Benz
to build this vehicle that could go off-road through the desert and carry six.
Right. And that's asking, you know.
Yeah. And then he was deposed. Right.
So he paid for the design.
So Mercedes got the design and put it in production.
And they didn't even make it themselves.
It's made in Austria for them. Right.
And, you know, it's they didn't change much of it at all until about 10 years ago.
When mostly U.S. and Chinese customers said, hey, you know what?
We really don't like solid axles.
Right. A little rough riding. Yeah.
Yeah. So they stretched it.
They widened it.
They put independent suspension on the front and put a nice e-class interior in it.
But still three locking diffs and all that.
And it still feels narrow.
Even even now, it still feels like you're right there.
But there's nothing like the sound of that door.
Oh, that could jump.
And then the exhaust sound of that, especially right under the.
Yeah, right there.
I mean, they know how to market the G-Class and then a lot of them.
Yeah. And I mean, I don't think they, you know, that's not where
somebody's not coming in and haggling over that one.
No, you can't choose for three of them.
It's like either you'll either take that one.
Give me three color choices.
I'll see what I can find or order it and it'll take you.
Yeah. Yeah. Or get a used one.
And nobody, none of the rich guys want used ones, right?
Yeah. Well, because they have to pay too much for them.
Well, yeah, because I mean, that's like the Corvettes.
I remember there was a time when you could certain Corvettes were more expensive
used than they were new because the dealers would mark up the used ones.
They Chevrolet said, you can't mark up the ZR1. Right.
And it's got to sell for retail.
Well, then the minute they went on to the private market, boom,
it went for, you know, 20 percent more, 30 percent more, whatever it is.
The dealers used to suggest that you don't mark up a car,
but you know, its manufacturers suggested retail price.
And it still says that to this day. That's suggested.
That's the Monroney law. That's so funny.
Yeah, it's because after the war, when cars were so short,
dealers were charging, whatever they get for them.
So this senator Monroney passed this, got this law through
that the price had to be posted. Right.
You didn't have to sell it for that.
You can sell it for above or below.
But the customer had to know how it was priced.
Well, I see on our bags of potato chips, 7.95.
I don't think we actually pay that.
So I think, see, that's a psychological thing.
That's right.
So you're still dabbling in cars.
Yeah, I always will.
It's still your thing.
But you're you're you're dealing in a die cast
and automobile and things like that.
I love that segment of the hobby.
Oh, I really do.
It's so addictive.
I started selling.
I started collecting when I was three, four years old, my grandmother,
whom I used to see every Sunday.
Always had a little dinky or a corgi form.
And she always knew what she bought for me, so she never doubled.
And that's what started me.
And my father, taking me in his triumph,
three to my first race when I was four.
That didn't hurt.
In Vineland, that didn't hurt either.
I got the car gene from him.
Right. It comes from the family business.
And I still have the first portion model ever.
Really?
I have a blue 356.
I wish I'd have saved all the matchbox and hot wheels.
Oh, there's so many I should have saved.
I saved a handful of them.
My collection now is is mainly hand-built and in 143rd scale
and some in the 19th.
And I and I've got a few thousand.
And I'm wow, I'm over 70.
And our sisters will have to deal with that.
So it's typical car collector, you know, the same thing.
So I'm I'm selling trying to thin the collection.
And how are you doing that through eBay and auction?
eBay is the best source.
I'm selling books, too.
And for some reason, books don't sell on eBay.
Isn't that funny?
And it's funny because automotive themed or related books
seem to be doing better now, new than they've ever done.
Oh, the prices are ridiculous.
Yeah, ridiculously.
Probably Carl Ludwigson's book on the three volumes of power
about a superchargers and turbochargers, it was like, it was like this tall.
He's very, he's Carl's very smart.
He's very thorough.
His original portion book, Excellence Was Expected, right?
Was a tome and it was 50 bucks when it came out in like 79 and ready.
Which was huge.
Yeah. Now it's four volumes and it's 500 bucks.
What a great guy, though.
You know, it's so great that there's people like that that will put all
that information down so it won't be lost to history.
And write it so you can read it.
Yeah, it's not something that you go, I don't know what they're talking about.
I can't read this.
This is too confusing.
There's so many things you read that are exactly that way.
Exactly.
Some of the specialty books, like our friend Matt, who's building a book
collection and he says he started a couple of books that he just had so bad.
Yeah.
Well, he's an English, you know, he's an English teacher.
Sure. Oh, I'm, you know, I'm horrified because when I write,
you know, our little three paragraph newsletter, I'm always thinking,
there's some English guy that's going to say, you don't know what you're doing.
Quit trying to fake me in a writer.
I used to drive editors crazy.
Yeah. Yeah.
But people like Ludwigson, in fact, I'm working my way through his two
volume book on Reed Railton, who was the guy who designed a lot of Lancers.
Right. Yeah, that'd be interesting.
What, so what gets you excited in the car world nowadays?
What do you like, electric cars at your thing?
No, I have nothing against them.
I don't want one.
I like to burn hydrocarbons.
I like the sound and feel of a car.
That's why I have an air cooled 911.
Sure. I mean, it's fine.
It's if you want an electric car.
And it works for you.
There's good ones out there.
There's bad ones out there.
If it works for you, it wouldn't work for me.
I just love, you know, I'm fortunate with my retirement package from Mercedes.
I get to get a new Mercedes every year, not free, but cheap.
Right. Yeah.
And I choose an AMG.
Yeah, of course. Why not?
Because I still love the feel of them, the sound of them,
plus the comfort and safety and all that.
So people forget how bulletproof Mercedes are.
You know, they've become something different than they used to be.
But back in the day, I mean, they were always bulletproof.
Well, you had the 300 SEL as we were talked about with that
hydropneumatic suspension might have been a little not quite so bulletproof.
But the engine was bulletproof, man.
And it was a beast. Yeah.
And if you knew what those were back in the day,
I never forget there was a guy in in our neighborhood in Tennessee
that when I was growing up that had one, which we didn't even see a Mercedes,
anything. And but it was a 300 SEL, you know, and he was the cool guy
in the neighborhood or the Ray Ban aviators flew, had a small plane.
Yeah. That's the type of guy I used to sell a 911 to back in the seven.
Oh, sure. Sure.
Guys who were just, you know, through and through car people before it was a thing.
Mostly, you know, what I hear from my people that I know that were around
in that time is that we were nerds.
People didn't think we weren't cool.
They were in the cars. That was the opposite of that.
So. But I think all of us, you know, growing up in the United States of America,
cars were such an integral part of everything that we and every everything
that happened in your life, a car was involved, whether you were when you were
born, when you died, when you went on your first day, you know, everything that you did.
It's culture. It's part of our lives.
And it was and my family were successful because of it.
My grandfather founded a trade show after market trade show.
Wow. Just after the war that today is the SEMA show. Wow.
Yeah. Two generations removed.
It would kill him to see how big it is. Yeah. Yeah.
And after he passed, my father ran it and made it big. Right.
It used to alternate between Chicago and New York and the Exhibition Center.
Did they did he sell it to SEMA or did SEMA just become involved?
SEMA was an exhibitor. Right.
And in those days, it was the speed equipment manufacturing association.
And they were an exhibitor.
And I used to go when the show was in New York and alternate years,
I would go with my father and he'd walk me around and I met all the guys.
Vic Edelbrock, Edis Condarian, Hedman, Mickey Thompson.
You read about all these guys.
Yeah. It was a close friend of my father's.
I used to get Christmas cards from Mickey every year.
And so I met all these guys and the show had gotten very big.
And he made one big mistake.
He was based in Philadelphia. Right.
And they had opened a new convention center in Philly.
This was in 1968, the one that's over by Old Convention Hall.
Right. From Children's Hospital. Yeah.
And they made my father an incredible deal to be the first trade show.
And he was like, great.
It's all on one floor because in New York, it was on three floors, blah, blah, blah.
So he said, OK, we're going to move the show there.
And the notorious trade unions, Billy.
Oh, yeah.
They just made it horrible for the exhibitors.
And the exhibitors all said, all right, we're never going to come back to Philly.
My father said, fine, we'll go back to New York and Chicago like we did.
You know, blah, blah.
And they didn't even give him a chance to do that. Oh, no.
SEMA went with another operation.
They formed their own association and literally took the show away from.
And nothing he could do.
No, put him out of business.
Oh, but, you know, what a great legacy.
Yeah, that's where I get the nuts of my car.
Jean comes from, his father.
So what's your daily driver today?
What are you driving now?
My C 43. Nice.
Those are great cars.
They're terrific, you know, and driving out here in the fog and the wet road.
That's what they're built for.
That's Germany miles an hour.
You still feel so safe.
Yeah, that's Germany.
That's people don't realize that that's what it is.
My wife is that's every time I drive in Germany.
I mean, you know, it's amazing.
You get out of the left lane and over into the right
right in the Autobahn where you have to and a big ass class.
Yeah, I just blow by at 160, you know, and, and, you know,
the guys in the backseat reading the newspaper sipping a latte.
Yeah. So so have you driven the Autobahn?
Obviously, how fast have you gone on the Autobahn?
170, 175.
Portion. No, it was in an S 60.
One time was that when I was at AMG, which was in a little town
north of Stuttgart called the Falterbach, right?
And I had an afternoon off and I wanted to go up to see Hockenheim.
Yeah. And so I promoted a car out of them.
So I got on the Autobahn and it's OK, you know, this is the Autobahn.
You got to do what you got to do.
I'm going to go fast.
So I'm in the left lane going about 140 and headlights are coming up behind me.
So I figured, oh, those headlights are catching me fast.
So I get out of the left lane into the right lane and an S class coupe.
Right. AMG coupe, you know, just blew by like, you know, almost.
So of course, I had to catch up with him. Oh, sure. Yeah.
So the two of us are, you know, we got up to 170.
That's when I started to, you know what?
I'm not used to driving at this speed.
Yeah, it's it's a different realm in a different world.
It's not just 20 miles an hour faster than 150.
No, it's exponential.
Yeah, it really is.
Yeah, you start getting into that.
And the lines become, you know, one line and the guard guard rail is just blown.
I'm like, you know what, I'm not used to this.
So I let him go. He kept going. Wow.
And those guys do that every day, probably.
Well, it's for the for an executive who has a car like that,
whether he has a driver or not, it's it's cheaper and faster than getting on a train.
Right. Or getting on an airplane.
You could get from Frankfurt to Berlin for a meeting in the morning and drive back
in the afternoon when you couldn't do that at 55.
That would never happen.
So anyway, Steve Ehrlichman, so wonderful having you on the show today.
I mean, we could talk all afternoon, but we will be back
with a classic autumn show in just a couple of minutes. We'll see you then.
Ever since the first time you saw it, perhaps even as a child,
you knew you wanted one.
Now you're at a point in your life where you have the means to buy and keep one.
Your significant other is even in agreement.
But where and how can you find one and trust, you know,
as much as you can about it before the purchase?
That's why there's classic auto mall dot com.
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make model and here all under one climate controlled roof.
You can visit and look to your heart's delight or do everything online
from the comfort of your own home, shipping nearly everywhere worldwide.
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Visit the World Wide Web at classic auto mall dot com.
And here we are back at you.
Morgantown, PA on a beautiful is this snow ever going to melt?
And I mean, it's been around for three weeks now.
It's the one storm.
And then we had the big storm and this and it's never warmed up enough to melt it.
And it's I mean, it's that's why all the fog is going up.
Yeah, that's God's calling it back.
Get up, get up, get up, get up, come on, get up.
Great guest.
Yeah, so so fun to talk about guys like that
who have something interesting to say and are easy going to talk about.
And I've done so much stories and done so many cool things.
His memory is just.
Yeah. And we see that a lot with people
that have memories that you think that's just surprising
that people can remember like exact days and like September 7th.
You know, 1971, I was on a plane to, you know,
where I stood guard.
And I mean, it's like, wow, how do you remember all this?
I just heard a baseball player talking about some game that was, you know,
from 1973 and he's talking about pitching that game.
Well, how about we've had race car drivers who'll tell you about a certain
turn and a certain race in the late 70s and how he had to get off the throttle
a little bit. Wow. Wow.
So where do we sell cars this where?
How about is it pre-vosed or pre-vote California or Canada?
No idea. Is there a T on the end?
Yes. Canada, let us know.
Pre-vote.
Pre-vote. How about Pre-vote Canada?
New York, New York, Miami, Florida, Washington, DC, big towns.
Yeah. Wachung, New Jersey, Chester Springs,
Pennsylvania, Sneeds, Ferry, North Carolina, Morgantown, Pennsylvania.
Hey, you know, had to get a shipper for that.
Yeah. Newark, Delaware, Miltown, New Jersey,
Parksburg, Pennsylvania, Hollandale Beach, Florida.
Oh, there's a great club that was in Hollandale, Florida.
Oh, yeah. The Buttons South.
The Buttons South nightclub. Oh, OK.
You know, rock bands and so on. I got you.
And it was in Holland.
The Buttons South, it was called.
So a lot of great bands. The Buttons South.
The Buttons South. Shout out to the Buttons South.
They're probably probably don't exist.
Probably a strip mall now. Right.
No pun intended. Or strip club.
Spring City, Pennsylvania and Midlothian, Texas.
Spring City, right down the street.
Just right down the street.
So, man, oh, man, we have been busy on the sale side
and slow on the consignment side.
That's one of those things that happens.
And it's not always just bad weather.
It just, for some reason, sometimes it does.
I think this is obviously based on bad weather.
But the problem is we don't sell any less.
When we consign less, it's not, you know, congruent with
how much we sell or don't sell.
So we need consignments.
Bring us your tired, your poor, your hungry.
But you're running poor and running hungry.
Or just review what we've had here for a while.
And sometimes you go, you know what, that is pretty nice.
Yeah. And we've got a lot of great cars here
that maybe started out that were a little bit overpriced
and they've come down on price after a period of time.
And they're, you say, well, why are cars overpriced?
Well, I mean, its perception is a part of it as well too.
You can say cars are overpriced in every discipline that you
watch, whether it's an auction on TV or an online auction,
retail sale, whatever.
So, you know, it's subjective to say the least.
But why are some cars overpriced?
Well, somebody may have bought at the top of the market
and the market's going in the wrong direction than it used to be.
Or they, you know, they bought it and they were thinking
that it was going to go up in value and they bought it
because it was going to go up in value and it doesn't.
And so...
Or they put a lot of money into it.
Or they put too much into it that they didn't plan
on putting into it because maybe there's something wrong
with the car that they didn't know about ahead of time.
Fixed up.
And fixed up.
Or added wheels and tires and a stereo or whatever it is.
That don't really add value to anybody else.
You could put a $10,000 stereo in a car
and it is not going to bring $10,000 worth of value back to you.
Now, I'm not discouraging you from putting a $10,000 stereo
and put a $10,000.
That's what you're into then go for it.
Put it in there, enjoy the heck out of it,
whatever it brings you, it brings you.
Don't buy these things.
Don't do the modifications if you're thinking
you're going to make a profit from it.
But people get caught up in the moment in buying these cars
and it's, you know, people go, well, you're just overpriced.
Well, it's a hard pill for people to swallow sometimes.
I mean, a guy buys a car, you know, in the hopes
that he's going to make a profit on it
or hopes that he won't lose any money on it.
And sometimes that happens and sometimes it doesn't.
But I always caution people, buy a car because you like it,
because you want it, do the modifications
because that'll make you happy.
And then if you can sell it for more money than you pay for it,
then Glory B, Hallelujah.
Well, one of the greatest things too is the auctions on TV.
But the double edge of that sort is you see these cars
that are pristine, that are selling for crazy money
at the hot time in the market.
And you think, well, I got the same thing.
And it's where you don't have the same.
It isn't the same car.
There are, you know, this car is done, you know,
$200,000 was spent on the restoration
that they're selling for $100,000.
Your car was $50,000 to restore.
And you're thinking it's worth it.
And you don't have all the documentation.
And you don't have all the documentation.
Or no, any of the history of it either.
Or it might be the same car, but the auction factor,
the Barra Jax and the Mead.
Sure.
You know, the excitement of that and Jack Daniels.
And Lightning Constra...
Jose Cuervo is, I guess I said last week, yeah.
But, you know, the auction environment can be great for buyers
and it can be great for sellers.
And it can be horrible for buyers
and it can be horrible for sellers.
You know, you just never know when something's going to catch fire.
And there's not a lot of rhyme or reason to it.
There's not, it isn't obvious why some car,
all of a sudden where it was $50,000 sells for $250,000.
And it happens a lot.
And I think people just get caught up in the moment
and it's not about the money.
It's just about I want that and I don't want the other person.
Like that Lincoln that sold it.
Yeah, for a million bucks.
Yeah.
So, new arrivals that we have here.
How about the 1995 AM General Humvee M998 pickup?
O.D. Green.
Is that olive drab?
It's olive drab.
O.D. Green.
Over black.
Redone from the ground up.
6.5 liter Navistar diesel VA with a 4L80E four speed automatic transmission.
Got them rod haul extended shocks.
It's good for tall snow.
Tall snow.
It's apocalypse ready.
It is.
I mean, everybody should have one of these.
I think you should.
Just don't go through the drive-thru.
All right.
The burger can go, you'll never get through.
How about the 1964 Dodge Polara four door sedan?
This is a great starter classic car.
Something that's cool.
Something you can take the grandkids or the kids in to go get ice cream.
This is medium tan metallic and light tan over taupe and tan.
A lot of tans in there.
98,000 actual miles.
It's got the 318 inch cubic inch V8 with a Holly Sniper EFI, which is interesting
to make it a little bit more reliable.
You don't have to dink around with the carburetor and that kind of thing.
It's got Wilwood front power disc brakes, which is a good thing to add to a car.
And I would say the price, this is a good example.
The price doesn't reflect the Holly Sniper in there too.
Right.
It's a well-priced car.
And an upgraded stereo that's in it.
I mean, this thing is nicely done.
And yeah, there are probably things in it that don't factor into the price
as much as they actually put in it.
How about the 1956 Chevrolet Corvette convertible?
Cascade green and beige, beige coves.
Oh, cascade green.
Is that one?
Cascade green.
And it's got the beige coves over beige interior, long-term ownership.
The Datecorrect 265 cubic inch V8 and dual carter for barrel carbs, the dual quads.
Datecorrect means it was an engine that was built around the time
that this would have been built and so it should work out fairly well in that respect.
Yep.
A Muncie M20.
Great colors and it's got the hard top.
So it's got two tops, got soft top and hard top.
That's very nice.
Next on the list, this is about a great car for a starter classic car.
1986 Ford Mustang GT convertible.
Blackover charcoal, 46,000-inch-one-miles.
Garage caps, a time capsule.
Five-liter V8.
Got a great sound, fun to drive, plenty of power.
There it goes.
There it goes.
There it goes.
It just left.
Is that automatic or?
And it's an automatic.
And it's automatic.
Yeah.
So you can enjoy a car like that and they're fun to drive.
Nice.
An 86 is classic, you say.
Classic.
Unbelievable.
How about the 1964 Chrysler 300 convertible.
Rosewood poly over white and black.
383 cubic inch 4-barrel V8.
Very original example.
Lots of new stuff.
Got power steering and brakes, which is very important to a lot of people.
Especially, you know, you can man get a car with no power steering.
It can be a little tricky driving, especially at low speeds.
Right.
You know, I love no power steering when you're on a higher speed,
you know, sweeping turns at 50, 60 miles an hour.
Round town, not quite the same.
So, but this is, you know, drop top.
Again, reasonably priced, something that you, it's affordable to get into.
And then last but not least, the 1961 Ford Thunderbird convertible,
Corinthian wide over black, long term ownership,
Radner Hunt winner, 390 cubic inch 4-barrel V8.
These things, you know, they weighed a lot, but they had big power.
Cruzomatic automatic.
And it's got the Roadster cover included, which is,
it's a fiberglass cover that goes over the back seat that makes it look more sporty.
So that's our new inventory for the week.
And when we come up before we, before we go away,
this has been a very emotional week.
Long term, I mean, long term, like 10 days after we started,
Bill Borneman came to work for us.
And I had met him at Radner Hunt in 2017 before we'd started,
right as we'd moved here a week after I'd moved here and met him,
car guy through and through, hot rod builder, knowledgeable, knowledgeable,
knowledgeable, just lost him a couple of days ago.
And he was as dedicated as employees you'd ever see.
He's one of those take a bullet for you kind of guys.
He was just a, and he was a car guy's car guy.
And he ruled that string go.
If you ever haven't seen the string go that we have here,
it's a vehicle mover.
It's, it's red.
It's got hydraulic things that pull the wheels up on a car
and you can just move cars into places you never thought possible.
And Bill was a master at it.
And like I said, I'd met him at Radner Hunt
and I remember when I first met him and talking to him about Classic Auto Mall,
I could see he was like a whole mall full of cars.
Yes, sure.
And then I'll never forget, he came out in the first week of January
when we'd officially opened and he walked in the door and you could just tell,
I was standing right there and you could just tell he got it.
He didn't quite get it until he walked in the door of this place and he said,
I got it.
And just a great guy and a great family.
His son Dave Borneman has taken over the family business,
which is hot rods that they build down in Pottstown area.
And has been doing that and doing an excellent job of it.
And you know, it just, it just, that's the worst part about this business is that,
you know, a lot of our guys are, and our customers are older and, you know,
it's just part of, it's part of life, but it's, it's a bitter pill to swallow.
And we love Bill and he was our guy and he could, he could fix just about anything.
He's a guy, if you're on the road trip, you wanted him next to you.
Absolutely.
He would certainly take care of just about anything.
Any car.
So rest in peace, my friend.
We'll see you on the other side.
And when we return, we'll return with our friend Keith Martin,
publisher of Sportscar Market Magazine.
We'll see you in a couple of minutes.
Keith Martin says,
Zoom, our friend Keith Martin, publisher of Sportscar Market Magazine.
Hello, sir.
How are you?
I am doing great.
How about you?
I'm doing great.
Is that, I like the little Lotus picture,
or is that must be Bradley behind you with the yellow Lotus on the,
Yeah.
And it's license plate reads Elise.
Oh, I like it.
I like it a lot.
You don't have that.
I will always maintain that the Elise S2 is the greatest pure sports car ever built.
It's like a go-kart with, but, but, you know, bigger.
Well, and with four airbags and working AC, the Toyota engine,
when I did my 10,000 mile service, it was $84, I think.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
That doesn't happen very often in these rarefied air cars that we seem to put ourselves into.
I put 10,000 miles on that car.
I mean, I, I just love it.
Just, it's just, it's because it's so analog.
Right, right.
And that's in a good way, right?
You know, I mean, people think that everything's got to be computer this and computer that.
And analog is a good thing.
We were just talking about power steering.
How you like it at low speeds because it's hard to muscle around, but at high speeds,
it's nice to have that manual steering feel of the car.
It just has a better feel for it.
So your, your latest blog is, would you spend $2,000 for a top?
I'm not thinking that the kid top where you pull the string and then it goes the thing.
This must be an automotive top for a possibly.
It's for a 91 alpha spider.
Ah, the S4 spider.
Yes.
I've had the top spin on the car for 36 years.
Cars always been inside my, my son, uh, his Volvo wagon needed work,
which we'll talk about in another time.
Yeah.
He took the alpha home to Eugene and, and parked that out in their outdoor garage.
Right.
And it was 30 degrees out.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
So the next day when he put the top up, the rear window split.
Oh man.
Hey.
The car had never, ever been outside overnight before.
Right, right.
And what is fault?
I mean, it just, it's a 36 year old plastic window.
Right.
No, the, so I started doing some research and it's about 2,000 bucks.
It's because you have to get the top from Robbins.
Right.
And then several people said, well, just replace the rear window.
So I started doing some research and everybody told me that was a stupid idea.
Right.
Because I've got a 36 year old canvas.
Right.
I put there, which looks good.
Yeah.
But, but it also, the amount of labor involved to cut out the rear window properly and then
restitch in a new one gets you pretty close to the notion of a, of buying a whole new top
and having the whole thing installed.
Sure.
So my thought was it's, it's given me 36 years of pleasure.
Why not, you know, why not be nice back to the car?
Yeah, spend a little, get it at a new top.
Yeah, you know, just, you know, the car, it's an automatic.
So its value is somewhere between $12,000 and zero.
Depending on who you ask, right?
Exactly.
Depending on whether I'm coming to you to buy or sell.
Or selling.
Yeah, it's a whole, we just talked about that too.
It's funny how this all comes full circle, doesn't it?
I know.
But I, I'm going to go ahead and have it done and just, I did look into having a zip
out rear window put in it because when I had a 63 alpha, I had a new top put on and I had
a zip out rear window and it changed the car because in hot weather, you can just put the
window down.
Yeah.
And have that, but even in cool weather, when you're getting the windows fogged up and stuff,
sometimes having that little bit of airflow through there helps as well too.
But what the, what the shop told me was that Robbins doesn't, who makes the tops,
doesn't make a zip out rear window for the duetto configuration.
They do for the earlier Giulia and Giulietta because the structure of the top and the top
bows is different.
Right.
Of course it is because that's just, they had to do it different, right?
It's so funny.
Some of the things that should have been more universal that they made over the years.
You know, it's funny how that's all changed and everything is so specific to this particular
model and you hate that because it just makes the price and repair so much more expensive
because they can't stock 100,000 different parts of the same type of top.
Well, I restored a 62 Chevy II noble wagon and the,
That sounds so far from you.
I can't even fathom.
I missed that car and wish I had it back.
Really?
It was a 283 three-speed car.
We put a four-speed in it.
Bucket seats, Nova dash, you know, the dash with the tack and it just,
I made the mistake with that car.
I thought I'll just make it really correct and I'll take it to Barrett Jackson.
I'll make a killing.
Let's see.
Let's see how this story ends.
You take it to Barrett Jackson.
I had the only Nova wagon that wasn't raised 13 feet in the air with 12 subwoofers on the
road.
So arguably to argue, to say that you didn't do well with that car.
Well, Ken Lincoln filter bought it and he told me a sleep in the front row and this
kind of okay looking Nova came across, but it wasn't raised up.
Right.
But it was like, it sold for 28,000.
He said, 28, I'll buy that.
Yeah.
He said, that's, that's, that's one hour of business for him.
Right.
About two years ago, I decided I wanted to buy it back and he said,
I don't know who got that car for me, but I think they raised it all up.
Of course they did.
Right.
But you know, those were, those shoebox Chevy's were so pretty.
Yeah.
Isn't it funny how a car, I always say it about the, we've talked about this,
the Datsun 510 is the same thing.
It's a pretty car in a boxy configuration.
And it's, it's hard to describe that to some people don't quite understand it
and they are dead to me.
So I agree.
So you had a little jaunt in the DS21 Citroen last week, right?
Well, the story with that was that I was driving with my son on the freeway at dusk
and the car just stopped.
Oh my God.
The Citroen just stopped.
And then cars, I'm, I pull off to the shoulder, cars are going by at 80 miles an hour.
That's the worst feeling ever.
The Citroen emergency light is, is like a three watt light bulb.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Outer space will not see it.
No, I have to confess, I was pretty stressed out.
I would imagine.
It's dark.
It's the freeway.
It's my kid.
It's my car.
A towing company did come get it right away, which was really good.
But I had been, while the car was running, I had been bidding on this Alpha S4.
Right.
So I didn't want to miss the car because it was a 14,000 mile car.
So you're on the phone and.
Yeah.
While the car is being winched onto the back of the flatbed, I'm bidding on the Alpha.
You know, you have to sell that Citroen because it will be mad at you forever for,
you know, not caring about it so little that you're buying another car.
I don't think the Citroen would be mad.
I think it would just be French.
Well, that's probably true.
So how do you get a tow truck at dusk on a, you know, a dark night?
Do you call triple A?
Who do you call?
I call like, I don't know whether it was triple or haggardy because they kind of
overlap.
And luckily I got something.
There was Hood River was nearby and unbelievably within 15 minutes, there was a flatbed there.
That's that's that's the weird thing was there's a there's like a 50 page manual on how to put a
Citroen that has no park selector onto a flatbed truck because you can't put it in part.
I don't even know what you put it in.
Right.
You put it in.
I don't know.
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh my god.
So I, the driver and I decided that we didn't know what we were doing.
Neither one of us.
So we wouldn't even, we just winch it up and tie it down.
Drag it up there and whatever happens happens.
Yeah.
But it was, you know, I, I, it was, that was a particularly great car.
But I, I fell out of love with it at that moment because I don't like to be let down like that.
Yeah.
It's, and even though somebody showed up within 15 minutes, there's nothing more unnerving
than being in an unfamiliar area is dark.
You have no way to get away from any wrongdoing.
And, and you're just, you know, you're just out there.
And, and really it was the traffic different.
And all it takes is one guy and not, not paying too much attention and you've got to mess.
I was looking at my wife's Mercedes SUV and I was opening up the back compartment to get
something out.
And I realized I have no idea how this whole spare and pump and tank work and do you do this?
And then, then I got to thinking about my son had a flat tire one time on the side of the highway
and he had a minivan and there was some kind of had to get out like a ratchet and lower it down
and the wheel was underneath the rear floor.
It's like you use your head as a brace.
You put it right between the tire and the ground.
Yeah.
Or a chalk, maybe a chalk.
Maybe.
Yeah.
I think that's chalk would be a better use for my head.
I have a philosophical question to ask.
Yes.
Yes.
Well, you know, we're secretly, we're going to do a tour in 2028.
Right.
Nobody knows though.
It's our 40th anniversary.
I'm not telling anybody about it.
Right.
So if anybody's listening, just shut up and don't speak.
But I'm looking, it'll be my, you know, our 40th anniversary tour.
I'm looking at the years of the cars that I want and we used to be 74.
I think I want to go all the way through 98 cars that are three years old.
Absolutely.
I think you're exactly right.
And I think you, as long as you're selective of what the cars are and you are, you're going
to be selective on what you allow in and what you don't allow in.
And then it'll have to be, you know, based on our agreeability that, you know, it's the
right car for the event.
But I think there's nothing wrong with that.
And listen, you know, you want to encourage more people to do things like this and not
discourage and by doing that, a lot of guys don't have the wherewithal to fix a car on
the side of the road when they're on one of these tours.
And I know there's helpers and people that can help and do all that.
Some people like the ability to get in and know that the car is going to start,
know that the car is going to ride pretty comfortably.
And that's okay.
That's not, we're not looking down our nose at people like that.
Right?
I understand.
I understand.
It's really, you know, my, the C4S that I just bought that 911, it's a 2005.
It's a 20 year old car already.
It's hard to believe that.
People think when they look at a car like that, we say this all the time.
It looks like a brand new car, but it's 20 something years old.
Because the new ones look the same.
They tell, everything looks the same, right?
Yeah.
That's so you think, you think that it's not going to be too big to let two new car in.
It's not a problem.
I don't think so.
I mean, I think you, like I said, you got to pick the right car.
I mean, you got to pick something.
You can't just be something that's so mundane that you go,
what would this possibly be doing?
And why would they want to put this in?
You know, you don't want to put in a Cavalier station wagon,
not that I'm against Cavalier station wagons or something like that.
But I'm just saying, you know, if it was something that had some significance
in the automotive world, I think that we too, too often in this hobby business,
look down at people that are driving newer cars than, you know, 78 or 74 or whatever
the number is, and that's silly.
Well, 30 years is old enough.
That's old enough.
That's an old car.
If 30 years used to be an old car, it's not anymore.
Right.
Yeah.
Because they'll go 200,000 miles and, you know.
I'm so I'll keep you posted on that.
But I'm, like I said, it's a big secret right now.
All right.
Well, and please let us know so we can let our watchers and listeners know when they can sign
up for it.
Because I know there's a lot of them out there that would like to be a part of this.
And, you know, we're going to I'll tell you the secret as to how we're going to keep it
affordable.
Right.
Now you keep this a secret too.
All right.
Okay.
Mom's a word.
The reason that a lot of these big tours have gotten up into the 15,000 and 18,000
dollar a car range is they they treat it like a cruise ship all inclusive.
They book your room.
They take all the food.
The Porsche Club here has a role model that I'm going to follow.
You pay an entry fee of two or three thousand bucks.
Right.
You book your own room.
We reserve blocks of rooms at hotels.
They get a discount rate.
You take care of your room.
Sure.
On meals will be in cities where we'll provide a couple of meals.
But, you know, a banquet meal is like 200 bucks at a hotel and it's crappy.
Yeah.
It's awful.
It's a dry chicken and dry roast beef.
Right.
So yeah, I like that idea.
I say what you do then is you go to open table and you tell the guys, look, Tuesday and
Thursday nights, you're on your own.
These are four restaurants we recommend.
Go eat.
Yeah.
Because they have a nice opening and nice closing.
I think you can get the cost down to like one-third of what the California
Millay and the all-inclusive thing.
When we book all your rooms, we take care of your luggage.
It's really expensive.
And I think it's one of those things that just because you have a lot of money doesn't
mean you always want to stay in the, you know, four-star resort.
Sometimes just to, you know, hamp it in is okay.
You know, it's nothing wrong with that.
I see more and more tours now where they say, you know, five-star hotel every night.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
And you're going to eat.
Wouldn't you rather have great, great back roads?
Yeah.
And I'd like to be able to park right at the door of my hotel, too.
I'd like to be able to be right there, especially if I've got, you know, a high-dollar
car with me that I'm running around.
I don't want to.
You have a high-dollar car?
When did that happen?
No, I don't.
If I'm saying if I were to have a high-dollar car.
Anyway, good to have you back, Keith.
And we'll see you again next week.
Keep all these secrets now.
Keep all these secrets.
Mum's a word, pal.
Right, thank you.
And we'll be back next week with the Classic Automall Show from the Classic
Automall Studio in Morgantown, Pennsylvania.
We'll see you then.
And thanks for stopping by.
The Classic Automall Show with their host, Stuart Howden, executive producer, Steve
Sethair, produced and engineered by yours truly, JR Russ, video editor, Randy Lamby,
available on classicautomall.com, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Music, courtesy of the Pat Travers Band, for tour dates, contact, and stuff,
visit pattravers.com, produced by CarSmart's Media Copyright All Rights Reserved.
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About this episode
Stewart Howden hosts an engaging discussion with guests Steve Erlichman and Keith Martin, diving into their experiences at the Rolex 24 race and the intricacies of endurance racing. Steve shares his personal journey of driving a Porsche to Daytona in 1979, recounting humorous and challenging moments, including a close call with law enforcement. The trio reflects on the significance of endurance racing victories and the unique atmosphere of events like the Rolex 24, emphasizing the camaraderie and accessibility of the sport compared to others like NASCAR and F1.
Acura CL
Alfa Romeo Giulia
Alfa Romeo Giulietta
Alfa Romeo Spider
Buick Grand National
Chevrolet Chevy II
Chevrolet Corvette
Chevrolet Nova
Chevrolet Spin
Chrysler 300
Citroen DS21 Cabrio
Datsun 510
Dodge Polara
Ford Maverick
Ford Mustang GTD
Ford Thunderbird
Lotus Elise
Lucid Air
Mercedes-Benz CLE
Mercedes-Benz E-Class
Mercedes-Benz G-Class
Mercedes-Benz S650 PULLMAN MAYBACH
Mitsubishi Lancer
Nissan GT-R
Porsche 356
Porsche 907
Porsche 911
Porsche 924
Porsche 935
Porsche 944
Tesla Cybertruck
Volvo S60
Original notes
Show #231 airdate 02-18-26 Stewart welcomes Automotive Enthusiast Steve Erlichman As they discuss his lifelong involvement in cars in general and race cars in particular including such prestige events as the #Rolex24 @Daytona, working for @Porsche, @Mercedes-Benz @MercedesAMG and with such notables as @RickMears, #DannyUngias, #DanGurney and more. Plus SportsCar Market's #KeithMartin brings his blog to life as he ponders convertible top replacement cost. www.Cavallino.com @Hagerty @VW @IMSA #TransAm @Audi #DerekBell #DocBundy #HolbertRacing #BobHolbert #AlHolbert
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CONTENT NOTE: Contests, Prizes, Offers, Vehicles & other items may no longer be available or offered after each show's original broadcast or posting date.
Recorded in our Showcase Studio just inside the entrance of the Classic Auto Mall in Morgantown, PA, Host Stewart Howden, Classic Auto Mall President and Classic Car Specialist Steve Saffier talk about this unique and amazing place often with amazing guests.
YES...Classic Auto Mall is a REAL former shopping mall that covers almost EIGHT football fields with an average of nearly ONE THOUSAND classic vehicles under one, climate controlled roof and they're all FOR SALE!
Be sure to LIKE and SUBSCRIBE to be informed of new episodes and SEE them on the Classic Auto Mall YouTube Channel. We also invite you to VISIT US IN PERSON at Classic Auto Mall, one hour west of Philadelphia at PA Turnpike Exit #298, VISIT us online at ClassicAutoMall.com or talk to real, live people about visiting, buying or selling your classic on consignment at 888-227-0914.
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Classic Auto Mall SHOW
Stewart Howden
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