The BMW M4 is BMW’s high-performance version of the 4 Series. It’s meant to be quick and fun to drive, and here they’re comparing it to a smaller BMW M car.
The BMW M2 CS is a special, more aggressive version of the BMW M2. In the conversation, they’re saying it’s such a great driving car that you might not need to step up to a larger, more expensive BMW.
“Twin turbo” means the engine uses two turbochargers to help it make more power. More air gets pushed into the engine, which usually makes the car feel quicker.
An inline-six is an engine with six cylinders lined up in a row. It’s a common layout in performance BMWs, and here the host is saying both cars share that same basic engine design.
Bucket seats are sport seats that wrap around you more than a normal seat. They help keep you positioned during cornering, and in this case they’re also adjustable and shaped to feel supportive.
“Screens” are the digital displays in the dashboard for things like navigation, media, and driver info. The host thinks they’re too visually “tacked on” rather than smoothly integrated.
Carbon fiber is a strong, lightweight material that’s often used in sporty car interiors. It usually looks “techy” or premium, and the host is saying it fits the car’s interior style well.
Embossing is when a design is pressed into a surface so it sticks out (or goes in) instead of just being printed. The host is saying the door trim has a look like that.
The BMW M4 GTS is a high-performance, more track-oriented M4. The hosts bring it up while talking about whether big dashboard screens are a good idea or whether physical buttons are better for a driver-focused car.
Physical buttons are the real knobs and buttons you can press without looking at a screen. The speaker prefers them because they’re quicker and easier to use while you’re driving.
Analog controls are the traditional knobs and buttons you use directly, not touchscreen menus. The host is saying some brands have been returning to that style, but they don’t think the big screens will go away.
A “screen that rolls away” is a dashboard display that can move out of sight. The idea is to keep the interior from looking dominated by a big screen when you don’t need it.
Bentley is a luxury car maker. The host mentions it because some Bentleys use a screen that can move away when you’re not using it, so it doesn’t dominate the dashboard all the time.
A “manual option” means the car can be bought with a stick shift. Some people like it because it feels more connected to driving, but manufacturers sometimes don’t offer it to save money or because fewer people buy it.
The BMW M2 is a small, sporty BMW made for driving fun. Here, they’re talking about whether you can get it with a manual (stick shift) and how that changes what people want to buy.
A “stick shift” is a car with a manual gearbox. You choose gears yourself with the gear lever (usually with a clutch pedal), and the host is saying that doesn’t automatically make a car cooler—it depends on the car.
A “short shift transmission” is a manual setup that makes shifting feel quicker and more direct. Instead of moving the shifter a long way, it’s designed to move less for faster, smoother gear changes.
The Rolls-Royce Phantom is a very expensive luxury car, built as a large, comfortable sedan. It’s designed to feel smooth and quiet, with lots of high-end features. People bring it up when they want to talk about the most luxurious type of car.
Tinnitus is when you hear ringing or buzzing in your ears even when nothing is making that sound. The episode also points out that loud noise exposure is a major cause.
“FDA approved” means a treatment has been reviewed by the U.S. government for safety and effectiveness. The host is saying that for tinnitus, there’s only one officially approved option, while many other products are questionable.
IFB is the audio cue system used in TV and live events—basically a private earpiece feed for instructions. The point they’re making is that people in that environment may be exposed to audio in a way that affects their ears.
The Jeep Renegade is a small SUV made by Jeep. It’s meant to be easy to drive in everyday traffic, while still having a rugged style. People might mention it because it’s a compact “Jeep” option.
Car
Bodo
They’re talking about the “Bodo,” a very special, custom supercar project. It’s described as rare and built for clients who really care about cars.
“Coach built” means the car is made in a more custom, specialist way instead of being mass-produced. It’s like a high-end custom build tailored to the buyer.
Horsepower is a number that tells you how much power the engine can produce. More horsepower usually means stronger acceleration and higher top-end potential.
Car
Botto
The Botto is a luxury-style car meant for comfortable driving over longer distances, but it’s styled to look bold and aggressive. It’s also described as a two-plus-two, meaning it has seats for four people with a more sporty layout.
“Two plus two” means there are four seats total. The back seats are usually smaller and best for short trips or smaller passengers, while the front seats are the main seats.
A “twelve cylinder” engine has 12 combustion chambers. It usually makes the car feel smoother and sounds special, which is why some people specifically want that kind of engine.
Manual shifting means you choose the gears yourself instead of letting the car do it. Many drivers like it because it feels more connected and controllable.
They’re basically saying it uses a traditional drivetrain feel rather than an electrified one. The point is that it’s meant to drive like an old-school grand tourer.
A “grand touring” car is built for long drives—comfortable, smooth, and still quick. Here they’re saying the car is meant to feel like a classic GT, not a modern electrified one.
A powertrain is the mechanical/electrical system that makes the car move. It includes the main driving components like the engine or motor and the parts that send that power to the wheels.
An electric vehicle is a car that runs on electricity stored in batteries. The discussion is about whether EVs can still feel exciting and emotional, not just practical.
Concept
A to B segment
The “A to B segment” is the market slice of drivers who mainly need transportation for everyday routines—commuting, school runs, and getting to work efficiently. The speaker claims this segment is likely to go fully electric first because it prioritizes practicality and cost-effective operation.
This means pushing car sales so that electric cars become the norm everywhere. The speaker thinks it won’t happen at the exact same speed in every country because of different barriers.
A combustion engine is an engine that creates power by burning fuel (like gasoline or diesel) inside cylinders. The speaker contrasts this traditional setup with electric cars to argue that the “wow” and history tied to classics like the Porsche 911 may not transfer the same way to EVs.
“Nine eleven” is how some people refer to the Porsche 911. It’s a famous sports car model with a long history, and people often associate it with the classic gas-engine experience.
Battery packaging is how the car’s battery is laid out and built into the vehicle. It affects things like how much room you get and how the car is designed and balanced.
KTM is a well-known company that makes motorcycles, and it can also partner on vehicle projects. In this segment, it’s brought up as part of how the design and engineering came together.
Brand
Brabas
Brabas is a company that works on cars—often by tuning and styling them—so they feel more special and more performance-oriented. The host is describing it as a design-first outfit that works closely with teams.
The Fiat Brava is a small car made by Fiat, built mainly for everyday driving. It’s a hatchback, meaning the rear opens upward to give access to the cargo area. The podcast might mention it because the name “Brava” stands out.
LIVE
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and
I'm Matt Miller.
This is Hot Pursuit.
Coming up on today's podcast. We've got Constantine Bushman, the
CEO and owner of Bravis, with us, and I am very excited to talk with him. Matt, this is a
serious dude.
Yeah he is, and he's done some amazing work with Bravis, so have all the people that work there, which was one of my takeaways. But I learned a lot more
about the company than I had known before.
So Constantine has really set it up as a design studio, which I think is really cool. You know, he's been
with the company since he was very young. He became
chief marketing officer when he was thirty four, and then when his father sadly passed away, he took over the company and has really expanded it into being way more than just like a body kit, which is maybe how if you're not paying attention, you might think that's what it is, but oh no. And they've also got a
new car out too that I can't wait to talk to him about.
Great, which is kind of the crowning achievement of his tenure so far. I think and a dedication to the
business that his father started. We're also going to talk
about BMW's. We've been driving a lot of them. I
just recently bought one, and maybe they make too many, right, Yeah.
I kind of think we don't need the M four.
It's actually no shade to the M four. It's just
that the M two, especially the CS, is so good.
It's like, why do you need to pay more for an inferior car?
I mean, I guess the reason is you want a little bit more space, right, the M four is a little bit bigger, But in that case you could go with the M eight. I mean, I feel like you
go one way or the other. There's no reason so many.
We do not need to be mid here and I the M two. I the M two was such a revelation.
I haven't driven a BMW in a minute. Probably the
last one I drove was last year in Miami, and I instantly loved it. It's got such an attitude, and
the CS, of course has that little duct tail on the end and the full racer boy grill that people love and hate, and I just love that. Uh yeah,
it did. Actually, come to think of it, I didn't
spend much time in the backseat. But yes, you know
what it did. Now. They both both the M two
and the M four have that three leader twin turbot in line six, so it's not like the M four gives you any real more performance. In fact, I thought
the M two was punchier and more direct and just all around a tighter, more nimble, more serious driving. I
also really liked the interior. I thought the bucket seats
were actually I love that they cradle you and really hold you in. But they're also adjustable, because my big
complaint with like actual sport racing seats is that you can't adjust the back and they're not very comfortable to just drive. But these are adjustable, but still they hold
you in really tightly. But also they have like the
cutouts and the sides of the seats where you can put your hands. I just I love that. I thought
the screens were fine, not overpowering, very straightforward. Everything sinked.
There weren't a lot of layers to get to essential controls.
It just seemed everything made sense. There was nothing there
that you didn't need. I really liked it. I even
thought that the multiple textures inside with the carbon fiber, and you know some of these other details that and the colors can get a little well, usually they get a little too much, but here it just all felt very of a kind.
I love the interior, especially the different textures and colors, and the design I thought was really cool. You kind
of have to see it to understand what we're talking about.
But they have.
This really sweet BMW kind of I don't know, it's not engraving or embossing. I don't know what it is.
But on the on the door cards, that's great.
Yeah.
One place that I one place that I can't agree is the screens. I don't I don't understand you approved
the installation of these screens. It looks like they're just
like glued on to the dash.
If you get it, you.
Get into an accident and the passenger hits the corner of the very squared off screen with his head, it's gonna be a diaster. And it's compared to the previous generation,
which you know, my neighbor Eric had the old M two and now he has the M four GTS from twenty sixteen.
That setup is just so much better.
A smaller you know, has still everything you need on it.
And physical buttons for the stuff that you're going to be doing often. I think they made a real mistake,
and I imagine they'll go back away from this giant screen in the center. Does anybody actually want those?
Yeah, I actually didn't think it was that big a screen, and I had a feeling you would say that. So's
that's why I'm surprised myself. It didn't bother me, because
to me, the alternative is putting that embedded in the dash, and I just think for this car, which feels super racey anyway, I don't want anything more in the dash.
I don't want anything that bulks it up even more so.
I mean previously they just had a smaller screen. It
was like a little iPad coming out of the center stack.
You know.
I wonder totally, and I know that we have seene automakers sort of revert back to analog controls. Multiple automakers
have done this. I don't know. I don't see any
indication that they're gonna do that with the screens, like take like remove or make dashboard screens smaller. I'm not
seeing that at all. I could be wrong, but I
would be really surprised. I just don't.
Understand what you want of these giant screens. You know,
one one screen in the dashboard for all the information that you need makes sense. And frankly, some companies like Bentley,
you know they have that screen that rolls away.
Yeah, so you flip screen, you don't.
Have to see it anymore. Exactly in the old BMW
screens that came out of the center of the dash they always look like they could have been submerged, like you could push a button then they would hear, and that would be absolutely brilliant. I don't know why automakers
don't do that other than the cost, right, I guess it's probably, yeah, very expensive to build them, which is why only Bentley has a disappearance.
Well, I think we you know, in the coming weeks we can tease that we have mister Marizio Reggiani on formerly of Lamborghini. We should ask him about some of
these things because now that he's not with Lamborghini, he might be a little bit freer to talk with us about some of the thought processes these that go into making those decisions because to us it seems so obvious, but I know there are lots of other factors involved.
Well, I think it's mainly cost cutting, right, They won't want to make things cheaper. The reason that you don't
have a handbrake, the reason that you don't have a manual option, the reason that you don't have physical buttons and knobs is that it's cheaper.
And then there's a big marketing luxury brand. Well, I know,
and certainly nobody buys a luxury cars that because they want it to feel cheaper or like we're cost cutting or penny pinching here. That's that's not why you're buying
these cars. So, yeah, it is a fair point. It
is a fair point, and I do think actually Constantine with Brabas has kind of hit on what you're saying, Like they offer all these expensive things that OEMs can't or won't do because of the cost, you know, And that's probably one reason why Brabas is so alluring to a lot of people who can afford it, because they're doing all the extras that like you're not going to get from an OEM.
That's why you're seeing a lot more companies, not Brobas, but others offer manual swaps or people talking about manuals and so many, so many vehicles because the OEMs can't or won't do it, and now aftermarket companies have to take that into their own hands. So what did you
think about the fact that there's no manual option with the CS on the M two. Is it all?
Yes? And I don't have an ego attached to this.
I don't need like a stick shift to feel cool or whatever, and I don't think it makes sense to have it in a lot of cars, but this would be the car to have it in for sure as an option. It would make a thousand just something very short,
a very quick short shift transmission would be really really fun and would sort of be the cherry on top.
I could imagine buying like for real and M two instead of you know, stepping up to a nine to eleven.
So I think it does actually offer some competition just on price, right, you're saving one hundred grand.
Totally totally, but I would buy.
But I would buy the base M two because you can get it with a stick I don't need the extra you know, there's a horse power boost that you get I don't know, twenty or thirty more horsepower with a CS. I don't really need that. I love the
duct tail you can put it on aut of it.
And with the base.
You know, you can get a one or two year old M two, same generation based with a stick for like seventy grand no problem with you know, ten or twenty thousand miles.
To me, it's a no brain.
That's a really I think that's a really really smart move because you get so much car for a really good value. And that also reminds me, like going back
to the M four, the M four comes with you know, like an extra extreme looking race livery with Riviera blue color and like this anthracite detailing, and it's supposed to look really extreme, even more extreme than the M two.
And they also charge more. The M four is like
one hundred and twenty four or so starting. I don't
think you need any of that. Back to your point,
I would just buy the entry level M two and then add on those all those little things.
That you want, if you need.
If you need. But yeah, like I don't need to.
I don't need some race stripes on an M four to to feel more extreme. It's actually a less extreme
car by the way. Oh gosh, yes, this is.
Wanted to get into it for a second to to understand and share it with everybody.
Thank you. I do appreciate it because I have become obsessed.
And this actually is very linked to cars and motorcycles.
It's linked to anything loud. But how I came to
it was from cars, and I honestly I came through it because Magnus has Tonightis, which he got from cars and going to concerts when he was fourteen in Sheffield and standing next to the speakers, and I saw how it was affecting him and it became this thing where it was like everybody knows someone at least who has tonightis, which is a sort of a phantom ringing in your ears.
It's ringing or humming or scratching that is not from an external source, and it's not hearing loss. It's related
and the biggest cause of Tonight's is sound exposure. But
it's just this big thing that a lot of people have and not a lot of people talk about. There's
not a lot there's not a lot of research. There's
only one FDA approved treatment for tonightas there's a lot of smoking, smoke and mirrors and snake oil out there.
But it does affect a lot of people, especially men, especially veterans, and you even mentioned Matt. You know, car drivers,
race car drivers, tons of musicians. So I did become
obsessed with it because the health of your ears is related to brain health, which is related to cognitive health, which is related to everything. I mean, We're so everybody
is obsessed with living longer and living healthier and longevity, but your brain health and your cognitive health is so important, and that's directly related to hearing.
You know what, I've always felt like it's time for me to start protecting my ears. You're right. TV news
anchors get it a lot because we're always we have the IFB in our ears, the same as you know, musicians have a say, the same problem, but and not so good at taking care of myself. So I don't
wear ear plugs very often when I go to concerts or when I'm riding my motorcycle, and I should do it more often. But I love the sound of I
love to stand next to the speakers just like Magnus, and I love the sound of the engine, you know, when I'm on the highway. It's a horrible affliction if
you get tonit this. I mean, I just can't imagine
having constant ringing in my ear and I think.
I hope they do more research into it.
Well, it's not too late for you, Matt. There are
a lot of companies that are making very discrete hearing protection, like Euros and Loop. Eros actually even has a Hendrick
Motor Motorsports partnership for ear protection. So yeah, I get it.
I mean, even if you do wear either ear muffs, are in your plugs or anything like that, You'll still be able to hear your bike. You'll for sure.
It's just a pain, like when you're putting on and taking off a helmet, put your plugs in under it.
If you watch Moto GP, you'll see all of the pilots in Moto GP are wearing earplugs all the time.
I should do it, but everyone should. It's just that
we never really learn until it's too late. All right,
let's get to Constantine. I mean I would I would
just like to start by hearing more about Bravos Boatrup is up. I think by Cologne right a little bit
north of and I know you as a maker of h like incredible aftermarket pieces that are in my experience, mostly based on Mercedes Benz tell us, tell us what I don't know.
So first of all behind Matt Hay Hannah. It's so
nice to be able to join you here from from Boatrop, Germany.
You know, Brabas. This this litt sort of Gaelic village
out of outside of the main location of the automotive industry in Germany, which is of course, you know, more to the south Bavaria Stutegart region. We're holding up the
flag near near Disseldorf, Germany.
In the diesel door the Netherlands.
It's a nice city. We've been here since nineteen seventy seven,
which is when my father started rob Us in the same town in Botrop, in the heart of what's called the Rua area, which is sort of like the imaginety as the Manchester of Germany industrial region. A lot of
coal mining in Actually, I think everybody's grandfather was working in the opal lines. There's always a safe bet when
you meet a new family from the same region. And
he started in the seventies because his father had a car store, and then he was a big fan of sports cars. But his father had through his business and
access to Mercedes Benz cars and there was the you know whatever. We all the things that we can summarize
as the mega trend of individualization. You know, today you
can inspect your Dell computer with custom parts, you can customize your Nike shoe. Everything of that sort did not exist.
And my father, amongst very few other people, was a person who started going after that trend, hitting different steering wheels into cars, changing wheels and entire combinations, and just making cars look, feel and drive the way that he felt they should.
I'm so curious about your dad when he started doing this in that time. My perception is that it was
very almost sacrilegious to be doing these things to these beautiful cars. What was your dad like and what gave
him that sort of attitude to be like, you know what, I'm going to do this. What was inside him that
gave him that, you know, Smarity.
So, first of all, there's a beautiful there's a beautiful photo that was taken of him driving an sl R one twenty nine in the nineties without the bonnet, without the hood, you know, and on the highway in Germany in a leather jacket and sunglasses. And that is that
was taken by I keep forget either Auto Press, Stuteguard or Auto built, and it's still one of the most iconic pictures that we have because it very very clearly so it has everything brobises in one picture. And he
was somebody that was a little bit of a renegade, typical first generation entrepreneur, typical patriarch, very very strong willed, very clear idea of what he wanted wanted in life, and he had believed me. He had loads of energy
which made him which made him a fan of big engines.
The motor is I mean the main part right. The
eye is immediately drawn to the mega motor in that car.
The sheer tenacity of that picture is that it contains everything.
It is the whole idea, the attitude, the personality and everything that we still used to discrede you know, I still pull it up whenever I talk to our team about the brand, what we stand for, what we do, what the you know, the presence, the idea, the attitude of the brand. And there's a boldness in that that
I absolutely like, which is why I have it. I
have it and a lot of I keep it in a lot of places at home and at work. Robis's
reputation to a large degree is built on motorwork, on very very deep technical functional the building of special cars if you if you want, because we have passed the point of you know, quote unquote just putting parts on cars a long time ago. If you if you look
at cars like the Bodo, it is the most per the most passion driven project, not only of my life but of a large You know, almost everybody in the team who knew my father and has worked with them for decades is deeply passionate about the car, and I think it reflects in the design, it reflects in how it is perceived by the car community around the world.
It is essentially a manufacturer of very high end, very rare, individual cars that we ship all around the world to clients and that have to work no matter the circumstances, and that have to work according to the standards of clients that really know their cars.
Can we talk about the Bodos specifically, because, like you say, that car really embodies this whole ethos that you're describing for us. This car debuted this year and it's your
first original supercar. If I'm not mistaking that it's a
Coach built Grant Turismo coop based on and Aston Martin with a Mercedes engine. Am I getting that right? A
thousand horsepower.
So the Botto is a is a car that is a large granturismal coop that is both inspired but as we say, the bold nature of the automobiles. So it's
got this long tail, gentle wear and at the same time a muscle car gt front, long bonnet, very high in the front, very stance and presence driven design, two plus two seater, very attitude forward. It's it's a design
you I don't think you can overlook on the street that is very classic to me, very contemporary at the same time.
One question that's easy to answer them how much would it cost for a client to spec order one of these?
And then secondly, do you feel that this is for you almost like a crowning achievement. I mean, your father
passed away suddenly, it must have been awful for you.
Kind of bringing this product to Fruition in a sense is like it. I mean, it definitely is a tribute
to him, right obviously with the name, it's one.
Hundred percent tribute to him. Absolutely. So the team carried
on worked eight years. In every project we do, I
ask you a question now, Number one, of course, can we can we make this? Can we sell it? Is
it a profitable decision? All of the usual business questions
that you have to ask. Number two was always what
do we learn? It's like, how can we take the
brand further? How can we take the company further? What
do we learn in terms of engineering? It took us
eight years until we got to that point that we could finally put this together.
This is a limited vehicle. Obviously, how many will you make?
Well, sorry, Matt, what your question? One million euros base
price plus options that will make it go to about one point two one point three million euros. That of
course is in dollars. That is a bit of a
different thing, but that's that's the base price. And yes, Hannah,
it's limited. It's a car that will produce a maximum
seventy seven times.
Because that's the year that Bodo founded the company. And
I see also that you have his signature in the door card, which is a really cool.
Who is the Bravis customer? I think it's very interesting
that this is a twelve cylinder vehicle. It's not a hybrid,
it's not an electric vehicle. I'd love to know who's
your customer and what are they telling you they want?
Do they want manual shifting. Do they want evs? Do
they want twelve cylinders? Give us a little insight into that.
The typical the typical Bravist customer is not buying his first nor is he buying the second car very very interested in cars, has a and leads alive where he is very clear about the quality of parts that he wants, not only in cars, but in almost area aspect of his life. And of course that's part of the picture.
Can also decide to want to afford this or he can't afford this. But mostly it's entrepreneurs. It's people that
have built something through their work, and the good thing is that they always come with an interesting story, which is one of the absolute favorite aspects of my job.
Knowing your customers seems to be a huge advantage nowadays in the car industry, and doing what your customers want also they are for example, those customers are very clearly telling us that they appreciate the fact that this is a twelfth cylinder, non hybrid, real wheel drive, old school grand tourism. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a
very very contemporary design. But at the same time, the
story and the fact that it's a very pure GT in the minds of many people who are interested in cars, at least that I'm quoting from from trying to you know, that is what fascinates people. It's the kind of the
deep historic connection to our brand, the tribute to my father, and also the the you know, the tech in the car.
One customer told me, I love the fact that it's an honest, old school GT A driver's car, a car that talks to me, a car that I can feel.
Do they typically buy the million dollar supercars, you know, the six by six or the incredible recreations of Mercedes and Porsie that you build, or do they buy the classics that you restore.
It's interesting to look at that because I mean, basically, my father built the company from the idea that you were talking about in the beginning. It was the beginning
of the car tuning scene, modifications, aftermarket everything that every picture that comes to your mind in terms of that from Germany is correct. However, just right about the time
when my father passed away, we were I was trying it was already I was just on the board of the company, and I was trying to ask questions that were that were rooted in one impression. I was standing
in front of the team one day and I said, guys, I'm seeing a crew. I'm seeing a team that can design,
that can put it, that can take these designs and you know, realize them in three D. You can make molds,
you can make parts. You can you know, take your
designs to the wind tunnel or to a test track.
You can put a number plate on them. You can design, guys,
you can design complete products. Why do we stick to
what we know? And every time Mercedes comes out with
a new model, we do front side, rear, bumper, exhaust, interior, motor, et cetera. You guys can keep doing that, but I'm
seeing a team that can do so much more. If
you had asked people ten years ago, what is Brothers or you know, ten years, eight years, fifteen years ago, people would have said, you know, people in here, in this in this company would have said we are the world's biggest OEM independent cartooning company for Mercedes Benz. That
statement was in itself correct, but it was also, you know, a statement that came from the perspective of the industry.
When I took over the business, I challenged it and I said, guys, I hear that, and I can understand it.
But now if I'm taking the perspective of a customer, why do I care? The answer, of course, I'm saying,
it's like, no customer cares about that, It's like, make me care. And then it started. That started a year
long process where in the end we came out with what is the mission of Bravis now, which is Brothers one second while And interestingly that does not include Mercedes Benz and that does not include even that doesn't even include car. It includes the fact that we want to
make luxury products that touch you within a single second emotionally, and that we want to deploy what our company can do, what I saw that the team can do, to every single piece, to a lot of different pieces of the world that our customers live in.
Something that Matt and I talk about a lot is the idea that cars are emotional, which touches on your one second wow thing and whether an electric car could ever be emotional? In your opinion, can an ev create
one second wow? And how would you do that if
you did that? Or maybe no? Fundamentally the answer is no,
what's your thought?
I believe an electric vehicle can have that effect? And
also I want to clearly say that I'm not at all against electric vehicles. What I'm seeing is that there's
different segments of all in the market. There is in
a let me call it an A to B segment, kind of a very pragmatic let me wake up in the morning, take my kids to school, go to work, drive back segment, and let me do that in the most cost effective, pragmatic way that I can. That segment
of the market, I believe is going fully electric and it is going to be the dominant technology. Now there
is a geographic angle. Can we realize that it. Can
we realize that in all countries of the world at the same time? Probably not. Is there all kinds of
obstacles geographically and politically to realize to realize full electrification of car markets across the world one hundred percent, But that is what I'm what I'm feeling in the market is that this segment is going to be electric. Now.
A lot of the discussions that we're seeing in the automotive industry are happening at the intersection to the second segment.
I believe that as soon as you buy a car, not primarily for the you know, using it to get from A to B the second you start buying a car for its design, for the passion that you feel for the brand, which is again connected to history, to the technology over time. When you're buying a car and
you're looking at the value and you want it to be timeless. When you're buying a collector's item, when you're
buying something through that perspective, you're looking at combustion engines, you're looking at a segment of the market that very clear clearly tells you the same thing that the mechanical watch market is tell you know, mechanical watch collectors are telling you if I'm buying a Ptec Philip or a Rolex, and my Rolex dealer is calling me and telling me, hey, Constantine, I've got something new for you and asking him that what is it? And he says it's a Daytona now
with a battery. So you know, I'm going to tell
him that I don't want it. And it's because when
I buy that watch, the same as when I buy a nine eleven, the same as when I buy a Ferrari.
Which is a very interesting discussion right now.
Yeah, we could talk about buying.
A collector and I'm buying a collector's piece. I'm buying
something that I take out of my garage when i want to feel as when i want to have fun driving, when I'm looking at a store of value, when I'm thinking about auctions and potentially ten or fifteen years in the very pricey segments, when I'm looking to take it to your cars and coffee events, to places in the car community, when I'm looking to talk to it about my friends and so on and so forth. That is
everything but a pragmatic decision. I think the luxury products
function through your heart first, not your head, and that the same is true when you look at how they proceed, how they get their value. Sense making in luxury products
functions culturally. Luxury products are cultural products, and that is
why you cannot take away history from You cannot disconnect history from a nine to eleven. You cannot disconnect the
combustion engine from a nine to eleven. Does that mean
that there can be electric cars that are have a complete wow effect, that have beautiful design within the realms of what the technology offers you, of course, such as battery packaging and so on and so forth. Absolutely not.
There can be fascinating electric cars, and there are fascinating electric cars. Can they have the same fascination that a
Porsche Ferrari as a Bugatti offers you that is connected to one hundred years of history? I don't think it can.
I'm looking at all the other things you do. I
love the collaboration with KTM. How did you get so
far as the design and island or two? Because you've
got the Baku project and also one inn Abu Dhabi.
Let me start off this way. I perceive Brabas as
a design house. I'm looking at it from I'm getting
up in the morning driving to exactly the company that I want to work on with, exactly the team I want to work with, and I'm looking at what they can do. And we're discovering new ways to go about
things every year. And I have a strong belief that
if you are buying things, because if you're buying things out of passion for something, then you're looking at brands differently.
You're looking at brands, and at least when I'm doing it, I'm looking for a brand to have a pulse. I'm
looking for a brand to be alive. I want to
know who's behind it. Not to know what they're thinking about.
I want to know what is going on. What is
their dynamic, is their dynamic movement, is their momentum? Is
there something happening? Because again, the third element of it
is that luxury products also get their value from the past, the present, and the future. So you know if I
buy that that that high end kitchen, or that mechanical watch, and you'll see I'm a passionate watch collector, so you see me go back and forth between those two industries a lot. Then I'm looking at same as for a car.
I'm looking at what has the brand done in the in the past is what's the brand doing now? What
am I What feeling am I getting from them? Are
they alive? Do they recognize what I want as a customer?
Are they Are they really really into this or are they just corporate ghosts that try to follow a certain pattern and they're not really passionate about things? And what
are they going to do in the future? What are
they telling me about where they're going. If I get
the feeling that those three elements past, present and future are in order, I'm going to become a customer of that brand and I'm going to be a fan of that brand, and I'm going to want to go to events and join, you know, join talks with them. I'm
gonna want to get to know the people behind the brand.
If I'm spending a lot of money and I'm buying a limited edition product. Even more so, it's.
So exciting to hear you say this, because I think I find myself rolling my eyes, you know, so so much these days because people, you know, brands, companies, et cetera.
As you put it, don't have a pulse. So you know,
it's just so it's so great to talk with people who have a point of view. They're not for everyone.
They don't need to be for everyone. You're staying true.
They shouldn't be.
You shouldn't be completely, I guess. Just finally, I'm really
curious where you see It seems like you're sort of expanding in a lot of different fields. Are there fields
that you think are not for Bravis that you think are.
Really Are we going to do the Are we going to do the Bravas labeled water cooker? No, we're not.
Okay, good good.
But I expect to watch in a private jet for sure.
We don't that Well, two different difficult, difficult, it's interesting again, here's a discussion the watches. We actually designed very four,
very nice watch designs with a panoram a few years ago.
That was a fun project. But let me answer to
your question, Matt, because those why, why these segments and why these adventures? Simply, honestly, if you're getting up in
the morning and you're having fun, and you're you're trying to see where you can go, and you're you're from you know, you're from your designers, from the bottom of your heart, and you love the process. What more, you know,
what could be more beautiful than trying? If you can
next to a car trying, if you can design a motor room trying, if you can design a boat. But then,
one thing is really really important to me. It's like
every time we do something new. If we design a boat,
we have to become boat designers. If we designed furniture
for an apartment, we have to become furniture designers. We
can't look at we can't you can't look at a boat and say, hey, hey, we're car designers. We're you know,
we're car developers. Let's let's build a boat that works
like a car. Let's build a motorbike that feels like
a motor moment does. It's not going to work. The
materials don't work, the structures don't work, the customer needs don't work. You know, we're challenging ourselves every year to
do something new, and that is simply because life would be very, very boring if we wouldn't. You know, I
inherited a good I inherited a well functioning business from my dad and the people. You know, people told me
a few times, like why don't you sell it? And
my answer was always the same. It's like, what would
I do? I would starting the same thing the next day.
There's a certain momentum in companies that you can recreate and Robert I feel like Robis has that momentum and has had that momentum for some time. And I'm very
fortunate to work with a team that has a few qualities that I think are very hard we create.
Now.
One thing is clear, there is no success is never guaranteed.
I don't know whether our next car design is successful.
It's going to be successful, I don't know whether people are going to love whatever we do after the Voto.
I'm simply very happy that they do love what we've done just now, and every time we try something new, we're giving it our absolute best to put on something that we believe deserves to be called a Brobst product.
I feel like it's so clear that you have such a powerful staff around you, because you seem like you would walk through fire for the people that work at brabis Uh. And that's that's really cool to hear from
a boss. You know, without it, you're not You're not
like saying these you know, throwaway slogans, You're not value signaling like I can. I can tell from from your
word and your body language that you have so much faith in the people that work at Robas.
We're all surrounded by endless meetings and so on so for and I have way too little time to want to be a part of that. I believe that customers,
business partners, everybody's involved with our business, they can smell bs from ten miles away, especially if they want to spend a million dollars on the car. Interestingly, been I've
been at a few points in my life where where I gone too close to the end as I as I would have wanted. And so I know that life
is short and we have a lot of meetings and where I'm I mean, I'm the owner and the CEO of the company, and my job is to make decisions and move the brand forward. A lot of times I
found myself saying, why are we going to do this, because in six years I'll be dead. So we're going
to push the brand forward now, and we're going to push it forward with everything that we've got. There is
no reason to not be passionate about what you're doing, because life is simply too short for that. And that
also reflects, it reflects. I believe that that sort of
that sort of mentality reflects into every corner of our business.
If you're not a radical about when it comes to design, when it comes to wanting to work in a place that is passion driven, please don't work at prodist very clear, heads up, because you're going to be surrounded by people who are giving it their best every single day.
We're sitting in church right now because yeah, I mean, we totally agree. Thank you so much for your time.
It's wonderful to have you on. Please stay in touch
and come back and talk to us again.
Please come by. Thank you, Hannah, thank you man.
Thank you. That does it for this week's show. Remember
to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you listen. You can also send us
your comments. Email us at hot Pursuit at bloomberg dot net,
and you can check out my columns and Matt's TV show on Bloomberg dot com and Bloomberg TV and on the Bloomberg Business app. Go there for car reviews, events
and stories you won't find anywhere else. Find it all
at Bloomberg dot com, slash Pursuits, slash Autos, I'm Hannah Elliott and I'm Matt Miller.
Bit Is Bloomberg
About this episode
Constantin Buschmann, Brabus’ CEO, joins Bloomberg Hot Pursuit, and the conversation quickly turns into a BMW M2 vs M4 value debate—especially the idea that the M2 CS is “so good” that the M4 step-up may not make sense. They compare shared inline-six twin-turbo architecture, then argue about modern dashboard screens versus physical controls and the cost-cutting behind losing manuals. The show also pivots to tinnitus and hearing protection, before shifting back to Buschmann’s passion-driven, V12 “pure GT” coach-built projects and brand philosophy.
Brabus owner and CEO Constantin Buschmann joins the show to talk about his life running the company his father co-founded in Bottrop, Germany, in 1977 - and why it was time to debut the newest car from Brabus, the $1 million Bodo. Plus the BMW M2 versus the BMW M4 and why everyone in the car world needs to start talking about tinnitus.
