Dealer viewpoint: How Toyota Is Dealing With Market Changes
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Company
Pirelli
Pirelli is a famous company that makes tires for cars. They focus on making tires that help cars perform well and stay safe while driving.
Car
Porsche Boxster
The Porsche Boxster is a two-seat convertible sports car that is known for its balanced handling and performance. The '986.2' is a specific version of this model that includes improvements made during its production run.
Car
Porsche 914
The Porsche 914 is a sports car that was made by Porsche a long time ago. It's known for its unique look and how well it drives, which makes it a favorite among car fans.
Part
engine compartment fan
The engine compartment fan is a part that helps keep the engine cool. If it stops working, the engine can get too hot, which can cause problems with starting the car.
Car
Civic
The Honda Civic is a small car that many people like because it's reliable and doesn't use much gas. The 1993 version is one of the older models that many car enthusiasts appreciate.
Car
Porsche Carrera Gts
The Porsche 959 is a very fast car made by Porsche in the 1980s. It was known for its advanced technology and was one of the quickest cars available at that time.
Car
Porsche 911S
Car
Porsche 959S
Term
turbo
A turbo is a device that helps an engine produce more power by forcing in more air, which allows it to burn more fuel and go faster.
Concept
car community
The car community is a group of people who love cars and talk about them, share tips, and help each other with buying and fixing cars.
Car
Porsche Cayman
The Porsche Cayman is a sports car made by Porsche. It's known for being fun to drive and is usually less expensive than the more famous Porsche 911.
Term
M96 engine
The M96 engine is a type of engine found in some Porsche cars. It has had some common problems that owners should be aware of, especially as the cars get older.
Term
rotary engine
A rotary engine is a different kind of engine that uses a spinning part instead of the usual pistons. It can be smaller and lighter, but it sometimes has problems if not taken care of well.
Car
Porsche 986
The Porsche 986 is the first version of the Boxster sports car, which is known for being fun to drive and having a unique engine placement. It's a good option for those looking to get into the Porsche brand.
Car
Porsche Panamera
The Porsche Panamera is a fancy car that looks like a sports car but has four doors for more space. It's popular among people who want a fast car that can also be comfortable for passengers.
Concept
LS engine swap
An LS engine swap means putting a different engine, specifically a GM LS engine, into a car that originally had a different engine. It's a common upgrade that can make the car faster and more powerful.
Company
Chavis Performance Engineering
Chavis Performance Engineering is a business that helps improve car performance, often by changing or upgrading parts like engines.
Car
Mazda Rx7
The Mazda RX-7 is a lightweight sports car that uses a special type of engine called a rotary engine, making it fun to drive. It's loved by many car fans for how well it handles on the road.
Term
PDK
PDK is a type of automatic transmission used in some Porsche cars that helps change gears quickly and smoothly, making the car faster and more fun to drive.
Car
BMW E36
Car
BMW M3
The BMW M3 is a fast and sporty car that's part of the BMW 3 Series lineup. The E36 model, made in the 1990s, is loved by many for how well it drives and its cool design.
Car
Toyota Tacoma
The Toyota Tacoma is a type of pickup truck that is known for being tough and good for off-road driving. Many people like it for its reliability and ability to handle rough terrain.
Part
aftermarket suspension
Aftermarket suspension parts are upgrades that improve how a car handles and rides. They are made by different companies, not the car's original maker.
Part
lightweight flywheel
A lightweight flywheel is a part that helps the engine spin faster, making the car accelerate better. It's lighter than the standard flywheel.
Company
BBI
BBI is a company that makes parts to make cars, especially Porsches, go faster and handle better.
Part
stiffer clutch
A stiffer clutch is a part that helps the car's engine connect to the wheels. It can handle more power but is harder to press down.
Term
800 horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful a car's engine is. If a car has 800 horsepower, it means it can go really fast and has a lot of power compared to regular cars.
Car
Toyota FJ Cruiser
The Toyota FJ Cruiser is a type of SUV that looks a bit like older Toyota models. It's built for driving off-road and is popular for its unique style and durability.
Company
Auto Atlanta
Auto Atlanta is a business that helps people find parts for Porsche cars. They have been around since 1978 and can give advice on fixing or restoring these cars.
Concept
bankruptcy
Bankruptcy means that a company can't pay back the money it owes. This can happen to car companies when they sell fewer cars and lose money.
Company
Porsche AG
Porsche AG is the official name of the company that makes Porsche cars. They are famous for their high-performance sports cars.
Concept
just-in-time parts
Just-in-time parts means getting the car parts delivered right when they are needed, instead of keeping a lot of them in storage. This helps companies save money and use space better.
Car
Toyota Ae86
The Toyota Corolla is a very popular car that many people buy because it's dependable and saves on gas. The AE86 version, made in the 1980s, is famous among car fans for being fun to drive.
Car
Toyota Supra
The Toyota Supra is a high-performance sports car that's famous for being fast and fun to drive. It has a strong following because people love how it looks and performs on the road.
Car
Scion Frs
The Scion FR-S is a small sports car that's fun to drive and very light. It's popular because it handles well and is great for people who love driving.
Car
Toyota RAV4
The Toyota RAV4 is a popular SUV that's great for families because it has a lot of space and is very reliable. People like it for its ability to handle different types of driving, whether in the city or on trips.
Car
Toyota Grand Highlander
The Toyota Grand Highlander is a bigger SUV than the regular Highlander, giving more room for families and their stuff. It's known for being safe and having lots of modern features.
Car
Ford F150S
The Ford F-150 is a very popular truck that people use for work and everyday driving. It's known for being tough and able to carry heavy loads or tow trailers.
Car
Tesla My Model
The Tesla Model Y is an electric SUV that doesn't use gas, making it better for the environment. It's popular because it has a lot of space and cool technology inside.
Car
Subaru Solterra
The Subaru Solterra is an electric SUV that doesn't use gas and is good for the environment. It's designed to be practical for people who like outdoor activities.
Car
Toyota MR2
The Toyota MR2 is a small sports car that has its engine in the middle, which helps it handle really well. People like it for being fun to drive and its cool look.
Car
Porsche Macan
The Porsche Macan is a smaller luxury SUV that drives like a sports car. It's popular because it combines a nice interior with a fun driving experience.
Car
Toyota Prius
The Toyota Prius is a car that uses both gas and electricity to help save on fuel and be better for the environment. It's known for being very efficient and is often seen as a smart choice for eco-conscious drivers.
Car
Chevrolet Trax
The Chevrolet Trax is a small SUV that's easy to drive around the city. It's a good choice for people who want a vehicle that can carry some stuff but isn't too big.
Car
Toyota Camry
The Toyota Camry is a comfortable car that's great for families and everyday driving. It's known for lasting a long time and being easy to drive.
Car
Land Rover Range Rover
The Land Rover Range Rover is a fancy SUV that can handle rough terrain while also being very comfortable inside. People like it for its combination of luxury and ability to go off-road.
Car
Porsche Cayenne
The Porsche Cayenne is a high-end SUV that drives like a sports car. It's popular because it offers both luxury and performance in a larger vehicle.
LIVE
Welcome to the Porsche Club Insider, your one stop for all things Porsche and PCA.
Here's your host, Vu Gwin and the Insider crew.
Welcome everyone to episode 189.
We are back at PCA's national office.
Just wanted to say before I introduce everyone is to of course thank our presenting sponsor
Pirelli.
Pirelli tires have to achieve the highest levels of performance, safety, noiselessness, and grip
on the road surface.
Innovative tires that can satisfy even the most specific mobility needs of the end consumer.
I want to thank you all for listening.
If you aren't currently a PCA member, there's one next to me here by the way.
But we'll talk about that in a bit.
Can own a Porsche?
What are you waiting for?
Be sure to have your VIN handy.
For those of you that don't currently own a Porsche, check out our test drive program.
Just head over to PCA.org and get yourself set up.
On this episode, we're going to speak to Martin Simon, a Porsche enthusiast who is
also the general manager of a Toyota dealership.
We'll find out how much and different the challenges are from the Toyota side.
I do want to welcome Manny and Damon as well.
They're the ones that keep this everything running.
Can I start with a question from one of our members that maybe some of our listeners can
answer real quick?
I had never heard of this one before, 986.2 Boxster.
He's having a starter issue and he thought it was getting heat soaked.
He's changed the ignition switch.
He's changed the starter.
It's been driving for a while, comes to a stop, then tries to drive again if the starter
just won't.
He's obviously replaced the starter.
I checked with one of our Goldmeister techs.
It's not a common problem, Eric.
I had never heard of it.
I hadn't heard of it.
The 914 said that problem.
Exactly.
The one thing I didn't think that might contribute to it that the Goldmeister said you
might want to check, Eric, is check your engine compartment fan.
Because those do fail and perhaps the engine compartment temperature is rising to a level
that is affecting your starter.
Look at that.
For those of you that are listening, if you've experienced this, comment below.
If you have any tips or suggestions for Eric to keep his starter from heat soaking,
I guess.
Yeah.
914 never had a relay, so all you got to do is insert a relay and that solves
the problem.
Martin here.
Simon, you are the Orzman Toyota General Manager.
I'm going to give a shout out to our mutual friend, Ed Wheaton, who hopefully he's a top
dog at Orzman.
He put us together and we'll hopefully have him on the show as well because he's got
some interesting insight as he has responsibility across multiple brands.
We have you on here today because, one, we want to learn a little bit about you
and your Porsche background, but then also maybe if you can give us some insight how things
have changed for Toyota because things are changing obviously for Porsche as well.
There are some similarities in the market and hopefully we can dig into that.
But let's just start with, what's your background?
How did you, what's your Porsche background first?
Well, great to be here.
Thanks for having me on.
I've been, I've been in the car business 20 years.
So I started as a paint and body tech and of course I just like cars.
Man, JDM World was the first thing.
So of course one of my first cars was a 93 Civic that had a smash windshield and smash
rear windshield.
Had to go to the, the, you know, crazy rays.
Yeah.
Crazy rays.
Oh yeah.
Had to go to crazy rays, grab some windshields, gorilla glued them in, you know, smush
the roofs back together and, you know, from there I went on to, you know, more
fabrication, mechanical work, started going into the service side of things,
became a service advisor, eventually flipped over to the sales side and so on
and so forth and just kind of worked through that way.
But, you know, with the Porsche, it was always just that dream car.
It was the, it was the car on the wall.
Yeah.
Whether it was the Carrera GTs, whether it was the 959s, just the 911s in
general, the iconic shape, the body, everything in the car, you know, some
people, you know, in these car communities I was in, they used to talk
about, oh, all Porsches look the same.
You can't tell which one's good, which one's not.
Yeah.
You know, but that was always something that I think was appealing to me, you
know, that it was, you know, some of them were wolves and sheep's clothing.
I mean, they were all high performance vehicles, but, you know, the
love of Porsche started very, very early.
However, it really was always just that poster car, right?
It wasn't until much later on that figuring out attainability, right?
Figuring out how to get into the brand or actually just, you know, be a part of
it rather than standing next to it, right?
Yeah.
And that was the same for Manny and I as well.
Like, we always had this dream.
I think we had other cars purely from a financial standpoint.
Sure.
You couldn't, you know, your first car wasn't a Porsche, but you
had that dream and Manny, Manny has, I think he's always really appreciated the
engineering of cars the way they were, they were, they were designed by the
dealer.
I think for me, I always, I'm a tinkerer.
So I've always tinkered with my cars.
And when I got to the Porsche world, I kind of had to learn, was that
reasonable to start tinkering or was it to keep things the same?
And like you said, which, which Porsche should you buy?
And is this a good model?
Is that a good model?
Should you do turbo, not turbo and all that kind of stuff?
Did you, did you find it?
How long did it take for you to get through all that noise and
understand which car you were finally going to get?
So I think in the car community in general, well, particularly in the
Porsche brand, getting into it's really daunting because
it's almost like you think that you're going to experience judgment
if you get the wrong brand for the wrong model.
However, you don't say, you don't say, but it seems like, you know, and
from the experience that I had over the years, that that's really
only external inside the community.
They're all appreciated.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And I think that that's just something that hasn't been talked
about a lot because say, for example, I was on the JDM side
and if I was thinking about getting a Cayman or something, they're
like, oh, it's not a 911, right?
Right.
And but then you kind of talk to Porsche guys and they go, that's a great car.
Oh, yeah.
That's a great car.
That's a track monster.
That's going to that's going to eat my career ass up on the track.
Yeah.
You know, no problem.
You know, so I think that it took probably till late 20s, early 30s
that I kind of like figured out, oh, it's just a car.
And you know, I think that was also the same point too, where
I started to be less concerned with other people's opinions of it
and just enjoy the cars that I enjoyed.
And I got another car that I get a wrath of crap about because
everyone is the 93 RX seven.
Oh, I love those big single turbo, all the stuff.
It's all modded out.
I'm a tinker as well.
But, you know, people are like, oh, it's rotary.
They're unreliable.
They're this and that, right?
You know, and in the same way too.
So it was just like people would say the same thing about
the M 96 engines or something, right?
You know, for every single characteristic models, they've
got these expected problems, but I try to explain to people
that said, rotaries are fine.
But the reason why they've always broken is because one,
there's very few moving pieces.
You've normally got some 19 22 year old kid that's got 120,000
mile car that he decided to put on every single bolt on on eBay.
And he just blows it up.
And he goes, oh, it's unreliable.
Right, right, right.
But you've done zero maintenance.
You've done zero repair to the car to actually get it
ready for what you're trying to use it for.
Right.
So, you know, doing it right.
I mean, I've beat on this car for the past six years.
I'm not nice to it.
And that that's what I think Manny and I always in Damon as
well as when people come to us saying they want to get into
the Porsche world, we want to help them get into the right car.
Because much like what you're saying about the RX seven and
people saying it's unreliable, this and the other, a lot of
the people that have terrible experiences with their first
Porsche is because they bought the wrong Porsche.
They bought the car that was clapped out, wasn't maintained,
or they just, you know, if someone's going into a nine eight
six or nine and M 96 motor, like I have like a list of things
that you should do when you get a used one.
Just do all this stuff and then you'll be set.
And then people have this expectation that they will, you
know, that they can be prepared for.
But it's those people that buy those cars thinking that
the purchase price is the only thing they need to worry
about and they buy a $15,000 nine, nine, six.
And then they're like, wait a minute.
Why do I have a $5,000, $6,000 bill now?
This is terrible.
I'm like, no, no, you should have gone into it knowing that
you need to spend that to make sure that you prepare
the car for the future.
Am I we get calls here all the time where they'll say,
I'm looking at a seven thousand dollar Panamera.
What could go wrong if I buy it?
What am I?
I'm like, what could go wrong?
I mean, but you've got the other spectrum of the buyer,
though, the guy who goes, I only want two thousand and nine
nine, seven that's got 5,000 miles on it.
But then on the mechanical side, the car hasn't been driven.
These cars need to be driven.
Oh, absolutely. They need to be driven.
There's like a happy balance.
There's a sweet spot of low mileage, right?
You know, for example, but to get a good value
car at a good price that you can drive because it's
been driven and maintained throughout that process.
I mean, you know, so some people just go completely
the other way. Absolutely.
I will take a car that has been driven regularly
and serviced as opposed to a cream puff that has been
sitting and only has 5,000 miles unless I had tons of money
and I was just building a museum.
Then it didn't matter.
Then I would want a little mileage car.
But I live in the world where I'm going to drive
my cars, right?
So yeah, my nine, six turbos got 75,000 miles on it.
And I got it because one, the opportunity came up,
but I bought it from a friend of mine.
I was telling me actually that this is he's a little
controversial in the Porsche community because he...
You know who he bought it from?
Yeah. Oh, OK.
So he runs a business in Baltimore County where he
swaps LS engines in the Porsches.
Oh, I know who that is.
Tyler, yep.
Yeah.
Yep.
Chavis Performance Engineering.
So he's a he's a really good guy.
He loves cars, but he's got personally cars
that have Porsche engines in them.
And then otherwise the LS ones.
Yeah. But you know, if there was anybody
that was going to buy a car from,
it was going to be him, right?
Because you buy from someone who's such an enthusiast
about the brand who goes through all the problems
of trying to fix them or swap them or whatever.
Right.
That, you know, that level of maintenance
or level of attention and detail of ownership
or drivability, I mean, that's what I want.
Yeah. That's what I want.
And you picked the right model.
I mean, as much as I love my nine, nine, six,
and it's been great for me and I'll knock on wood
lightly here, but the nine, nine, six twin turbo
platform, I mean, I still think that's quite the bargain
for people for the amount of power you get.
And I personally love the looks of a nine, nine, six.
Like, yeah, that's that's a great.
Did you pick the turbo because people told you to get a turbo
or made you get a turbo versus a regular?
No, I wanted it.
I mean, I've always been kind of a forced induction guy
when it came to cars.
I was about to say, you like big powers.
But well, you know, now I'm toning it down.
Oh, you've matured.
I tried.
Whatever.
This RX-7 can't hook up for anything.
It's 2600 pounds and 600 horsepower.
So, you know, you know, but it's just especially
with a nine, nine, six turbo.
I mean, what a great driving car, right?
But also I'm a lover of like older cars.
Given the same money what I've gotten,
I don't know, a 2000, like a 991.1 S or something like
that, I could get that for in that ballpark of money.
Some were close.
And I don't know, sometimes I think that
especially when you love cars,
that you love the car for what it is
and the screens and everything.
It's all just kind of a distraction, right?
And it's not nearly as analog.
I know people very cliche, it's analog
and all that kind of stuff.
That's why they say the same thing
is about manuals versus PDKs.
But, you know, just lack of distraction.
One of my favorite cars I ever had was an E36 M3.
Oh, very nice.
Yeah, super fun was, you know,
when it started its life, 275 horsepower,
when I sold it, it probably had 100 horsepower left.
You know what I mean?
It's just old, it's had miles on it, it's been driven.
But, you know, there's something about,
you know, actually being in the car to drive the car.
I was talking to a friend of mine,
he actually just bought a Toyota truck from me,
a manual Tacoma.
Nice.
And he's a great guy, he's in the military,
you know, appreciate all the military members.
And I've known him for 30 plus years.
He said throughout this time of owning my car,
you know, I realized that all the trucks
that I had previous to this,
because they were all automatics or whatever.
He goes, I was just, you know,
a passenger in the car that had some input.
But he goes, now I actually take my car for a drive.
Nice.
Right?
And then that's how I feel about my cars.
So I, nine and six turbo, I just take it for a drive.
There's no destination.
Right.
You know, it's like that journey, right?
And so that's the fun part about having a car.
Now, have you, have you restrained yourself?
Have you kept it stock or have you modified it?
So it already had a little bit of modification
done to it when I got it.
And I don't really see too much of a need to go much further.
Stock is already like for something, right?
Mm-hmm.
Stock 450 or something like that?
No, I think the CS or 450 package.
I mean, plenty of power for the street stock.
415, I believe.
415.
Yeah, I think you're right there, 415.
And it's got, well, has the turbo twist wheels.
Love the look of those.
So it's really just a little bit of spacers,
aftermarket suspension, lightweight flywheel.
Oh, OK.
And then the, what is that brand?
The BBI slave conversion.
OK.
Just a little bit of a stiffer clutch as well.
Right.
You know, but it means that I can't listen to the radio
because that flywheel is just chattering all the time.
Really?
Yeah.
But I mean, it's fun.
Yeah.
And again, for the street, that's really all you need.
And I've seen that platform modified to 800 horsepower,
which you can do.
But really, how much can you enjoy that on the street?
I mean, that's good for a clickbait.
Yeah, exactly.
But it's not usable.
So what do you ever drive it to the Toyota dealership?
Try not to.
You keep it on the DL?
Yeah, I mean, I think that a fair bit of them
know that I have it.
But I've got my electric Toyota sitting outside.
OK.
Well, let's talk about that.
How did you get to become the general manager of a Toyota
dealership?
You know, I actually reached out to Ed Wheaton
on a LinkedIn post.
Ah, OK.
And then so he actually gave me a call.
And then we sort of went through the process of seeing
what opportunities were out there.
I didn't know what I was applying to or who I was.
What were you doing at the time?
So I was still in the car business as a general sales
manager at the previous auto group.
OK.
And I was just kind of looking for a different challenge.
And then when he said, well, I actually am in need at Toyota.
So I love that brand.
I mean, my dad's got a 07 FGA Cruiser with 300,000 miles on it.
That's a great brand to be tied to.
Yeah, yeah.
But the brand in general, I mean,
we were talking a little bit before the recording.
And it does have a lot of similarities to Porsche
just as an import brand.
And we were talking a little bit about some of the challenges
that we face.
And right now it really is sort of politically
as an import brand.
So one of the challenges that we face
is that we all have talked about tariffs.
We've talked about importation.
We've talked about where production is happening.
But at a dealership level, even in my position,
I still feel very under informed
because the manufacturers, they're sort of dealing
with all of that kind of stuff.
They're the ones that are making the business deals.
They're the ones that are, you know,
the trade agreements, all that kind of stuff.
I mean, lucky for us, Akiyo Toyota has been sort of...
Vocal.
Vocal, but also leading the charge.
She's basically been doing the negotiation
with the US government for almost all
of the Japanese companies.
It's funny that you talk about this
because Manny has talked to several of our partners
in the local dealerships, how we obviously watch the news
and try to bring all of that here for the podcast.
And sometimes we bring up topics
with our dealer counterparts and they're like, huh.
Yeah.
I didn't hear that yet.
You know, and as you said, as a dealer,
you would hope that the manufacturer
will keep all these folks informed.
But before we go into that side of the house,
let me do a couple of announcements here.
One is I wanna make sure everyone knows
that the fall member raffle is live.
And we wanna thank Porsche Cars North America
for allowing us to have two great prizes.
The first grand prize is a 2026 9-11 GTS
plus $35,000 cash.
And the second grand prize, which are the cars
that we add as the raffle grows
will be a 9-11 career plus $35,000 cash.
And I do want to recognize our official corporate sponsor
in addition to Pirelli Auto Atlanta.
If you're chasing down parts that you need to find,
they can help you out if you're restoring a turbo, a 914,
or looking for a part for your 996.
You know, give them a call.
Either way, Auto Atlanta has you covered.
They've been taking care of Porsche since 1978.
They have every Porsche part.
They can ship internationally.
They also offer tech advice as well,
no matter where you are in the world,
online at autoatlanta.com.
They have Porsche specialists
so they can help you
with understanding mechanical repairs
for full restorations or regular servicing.
Or if you're just detailing car,
again, they have the parts for you.
They also buy and sell pre-owned vehicles.
So yeah, if you have a Porsche in your garage
that needs a new home, let them know.
Or if you're looking for one, give them a call.
Again, head to Auto Atlanta
to find Porsche parts that you need,
no matter how rare you think they are.
And be sure to use the PCA 5% discount code PCA,
the number five, OFF, again, that's autoatlanta.com,
Porsche parts, Porsche people,
Porsche passion since 1978.
So let's get into the connection.
There is a connection
and some of our listeners might not know
the connection between Porsche and Toyota,
especially in the 90s
when it was a critical moment for Porsche.
Yeah, Porsche was on the verge of bankruptcy in the 90s.
They were selling the all-time low amount of cars,
nothing like today.
And when Wendland Wiedeking, the CEO from Porsche AG,
took over, he enlisted retired Toyota engineers.
And I think it was called,
Pergen was called Kaisan.
Kaisan, correct.
Kaisan, yeah.
And basically made the company more efficient.
While German engineering and the whole mystique of Porsche
was still there,
they weren't doing it financially efficiently.
And they instituted the just-in-time parts.
In fact, what I've read is they actually came in
and cut the racking in half.
So they couldn't store parts like they used to.
And the end result was the 993
was able to be sold $5,000 cheaper than the 964,
which was unheard of,
that this more modern 911 was gonna be $5,000 less
because of these improvements in the manufacturing
and inventory techniques.
So yeah, for the Germans, you go to the Japanese like that
and basically admit that they needed help
to save their company.
Took a lot, but it paid off dividends.
Mm-hmm.
And if you have the opportunity to visit Stuttgart
and go or even at Leipzig and go on the production lines
and you can see it's even today
at an even more advanced level
of this just-in-time inventory.
They literally have parts
that are delivered by the truck moments
before they are needed on the line.
The bumpers, the wheels, the doors,
like all of this is all computerized.
There's robotics involved as well,
but all comes together on the line only when it's needed.
So when you build your car with unique combinations,
all of the system knows that some shop is gonna produce it
or manufacturing facility is gonna produce it two hours away.
They have to produce it in time to get it on the truck
and let's not have the truck be late
so it gets there at the assembly area,
gets into the line,
and then Porsche finally does the final assembly
and of course the quality has to match.
I mean, it's an incredible, complex process,
but as Mani said, by refining this,
they've been able to bring about efficiency,
bring cost down,
but then also the quality of the cars have also gone up.
Pretty cool.
Now, I'm sure, Martin,
you're familiar with what's going on with Porsche
in terms of the complex puzzle
that they have to solve with the drop in demand
in China for Porsches as well as non-Chinese vehicles.
So when you lose a big market like that,
you have some challenges,
but then coupled with the fact that you have
your internal combustion engine, 718 and boxers
that were slated to go away,
EVs that are slated to come online,
then you have the whole battery issue.
Like, man, we feel terrible
that they have to try to figure all of this out
at the same time,
but there are some solutions
that people have talked about
where maybe they can take a platform from, say, VW or Audi
and create a unique Porsche vehicle and produce it.
That's not completely unheard of.
They've done that kind of before as well.
Toyota more recently partnered with BMW and Subaru.
How was that because you've gone through it
as opposed to where Porsche is thinking about it
right now, how was it received by the customer
when AE86, or what did they call them
when they first came out?
The little Subaru partnership car.
Oh, you're talking about the GR86.
GR86, I thought you were talking about the Supra.
And then also the Supra.
So Supra was, you know, lift the bonnet
and obviously you see BMW logos everywhere.
Like, how did your consumer base feel about that?
So it's always a mixed bag, right?
Because just like any other community,
there's purists.
I mean, you talk about a car.
I mean, the GR86 wasn't, no, no, it wasn't crazy.
The reason why it wasn't crazy
is because it was a new car, right?
So whether you had the FRS, the Toyota version,
the Scion version.
Oh, so you didn't go away from what it was.
It was just a new car.
Right, it was just a new car.
I think it was more controversial
when it came to the Supra, you know,
because you had the iconic 2JZ.
Exactly, how do you follow that?
Right, I mean, and to the point
where I have a 2JZ sitting in my closet at work
because I'll eventually build it one day,
but I have a brand new 2JZ block just sitting there.
But, you know, it really kind of brings to light sometimes
how much people miss the old stuff, right?
How much they appreciate it,
how much even the consumer who loved it back then
is now, let's say, for example,
financially capable to join that community
and now that it's changed,
now that it's, you know, a BMW engine, for example,
even the interior of the car
has the same BMW controls, the knob,
like the nav and info button, it's all there.
But just programmed into a Toyota branding,
I think it actually worked out well though,
because once people got around to driving them,
once people got around to experiencing it,
you know, it isn't necessarily a replacement,
it's more of an homage to what it was.
You know, it was a big, long nose car
with a powerful engine with lots of potential in it.
Sleek lines, it looked very close to, you know,
the concept that they put out years ago,
which is great, because, you know,
we all know that whenever we've got concept cars
that are coming over the horizon,
you look at it and these beautiful lines
and these aggressive looks and this futuristic shape,
and then you get the real car and it's like...
Yeah, well, and that's what we've talked about
in the past, like, a lot of our members,
a lot of the enthusiasts are so loyal to the past.
Like, when something new comes out,
if it's anything different,
they're just automatically gonna poo poo.
Like, it's easy to hate.
It was like the 991 to the 991.2.
Yeah, like, you can't expect a 2JZ to be made today.
Like, the parameters, the environment in which,
you know, that Toyota faces.
But are the customers that are buying the new Supra?
Yeah.
So we just had their show about this.
As vocal as the enthusiast are,
they're not necessarily buying the new cars that come out
because for whatever reason.
So they're vocal about it,
but they have no intention of buying it regardless.
Even if Porsche built something that they,
everything they asked for,
odds are they still wouldn't buy the car.
But the people that are buying it
aren't these, quote, unquote, enthusiasts.
They're just used to the brand or whatnot.
It was that the case with the new Supra
where it was just new buyers who really liked the look of it
and didn't have a connection to the past?
I thought it was gonna be more like that,
but it was more half and half, you know?
It was definitely more half and half.
Once people started to realize the capability of it
and kind of what it was in its own identity,
I think that that was kind of the difference maker.
I mean, it really is up to us dealers to analyze these cars
but also figure out how to interpret them
to the general public,
to market and advertise them to sell them, right?
I mean, at the end of the day,
there are so many features and options on any given car
that unless you have the right person showing it to you,
giving you the experience of the car,
you know, you're not gonna get as full value.
You're not gonna see what it's really made for
or what the differences were, why it's better.
So the, in terms of volume in A86,
let's say that's the Cayman and then the Supra,
let's say that's the 911 versus the SUVs.
We have McCons, Cayens.
Oh, you're gonna have Rav4, you have Highlander,
you have the bigger one.
What's the bigger one, I can't remember?
The Grand Highlander and then also Sequoia.
Yeah, so you have all these other,
and that's really your bread and butter these days,
right? So the volume of these sports cars are so small.
Very, very small.
As an enthusiast, let's just celebrate
that the fact that they're still making them
because I don't think they're making a ton of money
off of them, right?
Because the thing is the volume comes so low, right?
I mean, for example, the Rav4,
number one selling vehicle in the world.
Yeah, fantastic car.
In the world, you know, they overtook the F-150s.
You remember those Mercos, F-150s?
Best selling car in America, yeah.
Or best selling car in the world, right?
But now they had to change their commercial.
Now they say F-series trucks.
Number one selling trucks in the world, right?
They lost it a puny Rav4.
Rav4?
Wow.
My daughter, Justine, is a proud owner.
She's a proud owner.
It's a great car.
It's a great car.
It'll last forever, you know,
one of the other things that Toyota has
and similar to Porsche,
and particularly some of the more desirable models,
it's residual value, it's resale value.
Sure, resale, yeah.
Yeah, resale value, which is why a lot of times,
you know, we tell people to just buy the new one
because the used one, it's almost just as much, right?
And it has a higher interest rate
because it's a used car or something like that, right?
Something, but the thing is, I mean,
recent model years and stuff like that,
you know, financing is usually available
very close to a new car.
So that's changed over the years too, which is nice.
Are Toyota dealers doing what Porsche dealers do
and adding ADMs on certain cars?
I think some.
Really?
I mean, we don't.
I think the GR86 when it first came out,
didn't it have some ADMs on it?
Yeah, yeah.
Limited supply.
Yeah, I mean, limited supply, you know,
I can see the business model for that.
At the same time though,
it has to be like in your DNA of your business, right?
People have to be ready to respond to that, you know,
because when that first customer calls
and just sits there and calls you an absolute criminal
for trying to ask too much for a car, what do you say?
Right, and so the way that I was brought up
was to treat customers very fairly,
to offer great value and offer great service.
So it's not something that I ever kind of built into my model.
Yeah, but I also don't,
I mean, there's some crazy ADMs,
which I don't agree with, but you know,
if you're mad at anyone, I say this before,
is if you're mad at anyone,
be mad at the person that paid that crazy ADM.
Like they're in a business to sell cars,
they're in the business to pay overhead
and if they can make a little extra money
or a substantial amount of money,
like can you fault them
if someone's willing to pay for it?
No, and I think that that's fine, right?
Because really in regards to specialty models,
particularly the Porsche lineup,
I mean, I was talking to Mani a little bit
about kind of like barriers of entry
into ownership and into membership, right?
And if someone values that,
I mean, whatever something is worth
is what someone will pay for it, right?
So if someone's gonna put something out there 100 over
and then somebody pays it,
yeah, then it's probably worth it, right?
So back to the partnering with BMW and Subaru.
So if you were talking to a decision maker at Porsche,
do you think it would be wise for them
to take a platform from another manufacturer
and dial it in Porsche-wise
and try to get a car on the lot sooner than five years?
So I think the thing that I would probably say or ask
is what you're asking of this other brand or other company,
is it going to match your DNA?
As in, is it going to serve the same purpose
in the greater machine, right?
Or is this really just a cash grab to lower cost
to try to find new outlets and opportunities?
I think that the partnerships with, let's say,
Subaru and BMW were very calculated, right?
They didn't go to BMW to say,
hey, help us with an electric vehicle.
They said, help us with a performance vehicle.
So what did they do?
They took their most robust and honestly,
one of their more reliable engines, that 58.
I mean, that's a great engine, right?
And so you put that type of DNA, it was there to Jay-Z, right?
And so it matched.
And then the same thing with the partnership with Subaru,
right?
So we partnered with them with the little sports car,
but also the electric car.
So I have a BZ4 Exits, an electric SUV,
a little smaller than a RAV4,
but they have the Solterra,
which is the same exact car, right?
And so we can share in those platforms
because the technology and everything,
it sort of serves the same purpose for both.
It's just iterations.
It's like how they brought in the Kaizen expert at Porsche.
And it fit the DNA of what they were trying to do.
They needed to improve their process.
And Kaizen is two words that literally means
continuous improvement.
So that's been Toyota's ideology for a long time.
So they wanted to inject that DNA
into the Porsche manufacturing.
Yeah, they injected more efficiency
without losing their original DNA.
Right.
So they actually got a better car.
So that kept everything that they were looking for.
So I have a little comment because,
so Toyota, they've only done collaboration sports cars
over the past what, 10, 15 years?
Recently, yeah.
Yeah, they haven't built their own
all by themselves, which at first,
I thought, why would they do that?
But those cars have turned out so good
that it's like, okay, yeah, it works.
So my question here is, and maybe it's not a question,
more of a statement that I'd like to see
what your reaction would be.
Sure.
So Toyota and Mazda, there's that rumor going around
that they're going to do some sort of
collaboration sports car
and I forget which one it's supposed to be.
But how about this?
Toyota and Porsche get a new MR2 and 914.
That would be super cool.
I think that would be awesome.
What are your thoughts on that?
Oh, that'd be super cool.
Look, so I was shaking his head.
I think it's a great idea,
but I don't think there's any history
of Porsche ever doing anything
outside of their Volkswagen family.
Yeah.
True, true, but I'm thinking big here
because I would love to see something like that happen.
You would have to think within the family,
the Volkswagen family.
I think it would be a great idea,
but I know just knowing how we know
the Porsche family and whatnot, I don't see them.
All right, let me throw this scenario
and maybe ask the same question, but in a different way.
So the Macan ice version is obviously
the best-selling Porsche out there.
That is going away.
Your RAV4, as we just talked about
is your best-selling vehicle.
And most of them are ice.
I know you have them in hybrid as well,
but let's say the ice version of the RAV4
gotta go next year.
And you only have, in its replacement, an ice version.
I'm not, I'm sorry, a EV version of the RAV4.
How would you feel?
So we are leaning more towards the hybrid version.
Right, but I'm not saying hybrid.
In the scenario for Porsche, your RAV4,
it went from ice to purely EV.
You don't have that hybrid option, right, Manny?
We don't have a hybrid option right now
for the Macan.
So how do you feel?
Macan and Panamera.
So that is an interesting proposition
because when people think of a Prius, right,
in their minds, it might as well be an EV
because it's been known as the top level
of fuel efficiency for how long.
But as of right now, we have very few EV cars.
Right, I wrote it here.
You have the BZ and there's one more.
The CHR?
Yeah, yeah.
But that's what I'm saying.
There's so few of them because they've sort of mastered,
not being sort of unbothered by the EPA, right?
A lot of these EVs are in reaction
to having to lower the total EPA line-up average, right?
So I don't know, I think that some companies
are more prepared than others, right?
And then you have to do something as drastic as
pull an entire line, pull your best-selling line
because that's the only way that you can kind of...
It's crazy to think that, right?
That's why I posed it to you.
Your best-selling car is going away
and your only solution or the only thing
that's slated currently is an EV-only platform.
Well, it was sort of like how a lot of brands
have gone away from sedans.
I was actually going to ask you about that as well.
Well, because I used to work at Chevy.
So I worked at Chevy for the longest portion of my career
and our dealership, we were the number 10
cruise dealer in the country.
Wow.
3,600 deals.
We were selling...
In Baltimore?
Yeah.
That's where we bought our daughter's cruise.
Oh, yeah.
That's how I met Ed.
Oh, okay, okay.
We were 60 cruises a month, right?
And then they said, okay,
so we're not producing the cruise anymore.
You're like, whoa.
So what do we do, right?
So then you switch gears, right?
And so then we found more success
in let's say the Malibu or the Equinox line-up.
But then the Malibu goes away.
Then the Malibu goes away.
So then it was all Equinox after that, right?
And then all of the smaller SUVs then came the Trax.
Trax, yeah.
So then came, it's a Korean-built car,
but it's actually a really cool car.
And it was sizable.
It was about the size of a cruise.
It was just...
Higher up.
Just a little bit.
Not by much.
I think the market just wants that now.
That they have this SUV mentality.
No one, very rarely do people think sedans anymore.
I love the sedans.
It made me think about,
we were talking about collaborations and BMW,
to me, is on the same level as Toyota.
So it's not a shock.
We inherited a Chevy.
What's a Sonic, the one we have?
Oh, you're something.
Which I found that was the DeWoo.
And to me, that was Chevy taking a quick buck
because there's no way I equate DeWoo to Chevy.
Because I have a suburban that's been flawless
for almost 300,000 miles.
And then I get this other thing that breaks down
every 5,000 miles.
And when I find out it's a DeWoo,
I'm like, well, that makes sense.
That makes sense.
Because it's...
And so to me, that took my view of Chevy
and dropped it down a couple of notches
because I thought, here they are,
they're just going after the money grab
because they needed a sub-compact car.
And instead of building one themselves,
they just bought DeWoo's and rebadged them.
Yeah.
So more a little bit about the disappearing market
for sedans are, you helped out.
The reason why we connected was because through Ed
and one of our staff here was looking for a new car
and they were getting the run around with some dealers
and your dealer took great care of her
and got the exact car that she wanted.
And I'm assuming at the price that she wanted,
but she was one of the unique persons
that wanted to get into...
She had a Camry sedan, got into a new Camry sedan.
I didn't realize and many pointed out to me,
Camrys are no longer ICE only, they're hybrid.
And so when I saw her car
and I saw the performance ratings on it,
I'm like, wow, that's impressive.
A sedan that does like crazy mileage and stuff like that.
I would think that market didn't even flinch
when it was moved to a hybrid.
How many people come in and realize
that they're also buying hybrids for the Camry now?
So sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
One of the big pillars that we have
really is educating people, right?
You know, it was much like anything with sales,
it really comes down to education.
Education builds value.
So the more somebody knows
or the more you can tell them, show them,
let them experience about a vehicle, then they'll...
It's not a plug-in hybrid, it's a regular.
And I would think, this is not a plug-in
that makes people think it's a regular gas
and less complexity maybe of having to hook up a charger.
Even the plug-in will give you...
It's not even about the complexity though.
It's about the convenience, right?
It's about like the life intrusion almost.
So I've always been a combustion guy,
basically just how I've been talking.
The car that I have is not a demo.
I bought it and I bought it before I worked for Toyota.
And...
You're busy?
Yeah.
And you're busy is plug-in.
Yeah, it's full EV.
Full EV, okay.
Yeah, and for me, it was a great deal on the car.
I kinda liked the way it looked
and I was like, oh, this is a good option
because prior to that, I had this Range Rover Sport
and I had it for a few years and I was like,
oh, it's a cool car.
It's great and I had a few of them in a row.
And I was like, oh, just let me try something different
because I'd get a new car like every two years, truthfully.
But a big part of the reason why I got the car,
it drives like a normal car.
You know, I'm not trying to offend any Tesla people
but the way that they drive it
like feels like a roller coaster.
And this car drives like a normal car.
So when I introduce people to this car,
let's say I meet a customer and I talk to them about it,
this is the first thing I tell them.
By the way, it drives like a normal car.
And they go, oh, and that's a big thing, right?
But so you mentioned plug-in hybrids
or kinetic hybrid systems like Toyota has,
it's not an intrusion to the way they live their life,
right?
It's great to know about it.
It's great to be educated about it
but as long as it doesn't screw up their flow
for how they operate or how they live,
they just say thank you for the extra fuel economy.
Like I think you also enjoy much like Porsche does,
like a Toyota product.
We talked about depreciation.
I think Toyota products are known to hold their value
because they're so reliable and such.
Hybrids I would expect is not even an issue.
Do Toyota EV only have depreciation concerns?
Yeah.
More than the rest of the lineup.
Because people don't know when they'll have to replace it
or how much it will cost to replace it.
So how do you talk to the customer through that?
So the good part is that the Toyota owner
tends to be a very long ownership.
Yeah.
Long ownership cycle.
Yeah, very, very, very long ownership cycle.
I see people come through our service department
that have 2012 Tacomas with 150,000 miles
and they go, yep, she's just getting started, right?
Yeah.
It's very common.
And I think that that's much less common
in most other brands.
So the cycle of ownership of a Toyota owner is much longer.
So although it's like nice to know that it's worth money,
you know, it's like,
I know a guy who's got a 993 Turbo.
Right.
But he's never gonna sell it.
Right, yeah.
You know, he's never gonna sell it.
So he's like, yeah.
What's the matter?
Yeah, it's nice to know it's worth 300 grand,
but what does it matter?
Right.
You know, it's just, he's just gonna own it.
So same thing with Toyota customers.
It's nice to know that your car
is worth a fair bit of money.
And if you wanted to trade it in in a couple of years,
you get really great value for it,
but why would you?
Yeah.
You know?
So how about the manual versus automatic of,
I think the GR series of Toyotas finally came out.
Cause for a while, the Supras,
the Supras came out automatic only
and then they finally came out with manual.
In the Porsche world,
we get this statement all the time,
but what people don't realize
is it takes much longer for a dealer to sell a manual car
than it does a PDK car or a automatic.
Sure.
I think that also bleeds into one thing
and this is kind of off topic,
but it's the modern society of drivers
or lack thereof, you know?
I've got a lot of younger cousins and stuff like that.
And they're all in there like early 20s.
Half of them don't have driver's licenses.
They don't care about driving.
They can Uber or Lyft anywhere.
Uber or Lyft, everything's on demand
and everything's just like ready to go all the time.
You know, the transportation is no longer
like a pillar of freedom anymore.
It's sort of just like it just comes with a territory.
You're just gonna hit some buttons.
But I'll counter you with,
I think those people have always existed,
but they had to drive in order to get around, right?
Like if you think about in high school,
there was just people that drove because they have to,
but they never loved driving.
So now these people,
your cousins that you're talking about,
they have an option.
But I think if you see any cars and coffee,
if you see all the events that we have around,
I think that there are more enthusiasts now
because of, you know, internet influencers
and this, that and the other.
I think there are more,
this is not about manual versus automatic,
but this is more about enthusiasts.
But I think we have more enthusiasts today
and more things to do as a car enthusiast
because of the internet.
Sure, I mean, to be fair too,
to your point, the organization of community
has become more advanced, right?
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, the car,
the car meets that I used to go to,
Dunkin' Donuts, right?
Yeah, like 10 people, 12 people.
Yeah, it was the same people that just showed up.
The sat around the Dunkin' Donuts parking lot
because the owners didn't mind
and no one caused any trouble
and you just sit there
and drink your $1 coffee, you know,
and just look at the same cars
that you see every single week, right?
And then the influx of, you know,
more clubs and more organized events
and more official events really,
more than anything else,
that also brought in like a higher level consumer, right?
So I mean, again, I've just,
other than Hunt Valley horsepower
or cars and coffee or something,
you know, in my viewpoint of my experience,
there was actually not that many events like available,
right? Exactly, exactly.
But then, you know, the younger generation,
like my kids, I've, I don't want to say force
is a strong word, but...
Highly influenced.
Yeah, I, actually, I put them in a car
and they had no choice.
They had to drive a manual.
But it's more selfish for me
because if I need to help move a car,
they gotta be able to drive one of them in anyways.
But today's society,
if you enjoy the romance of a manual,
absolutely enjoy it.
The younger generation coming up, I think,
also puts the performance aspect of,
because back in the day,
when you chose an automatic,
it was typically power robbing
or it was the slower version of the car.
But today's automatic slash PDKs,
they're lightning fast.
They are the higher performance cars.
So they're not giving up something
to be able to row their own gears.
We row our own gears, really, it's just romantic.
I hear a lot of them call dual clutch
transmissions manuals.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
If you search on like AutoTrader,
they come up as that.
Oh.
Yeah.
So if you were to search manual,
DCTs and stuff like that, they all come up as manual.
Okay.
Now, how does,
we talked about how China and such has affected Porsche,
but I would think Toyota is a Japanese brand.
And if China is pushing their folks to buy a Chinese,
a BYD or whatever, it has to have affected Toyota.
And so what's it been like for you
with the drop in market in China?
And let's not forget you mentioned it earlier,
the tariffs and such.
Well, I think that those effects,
I mean, as a manufacturer, they're gonna feel that.
I think that Toyota North America sort of,
I don't wanna speak for the executives of the company,
but it sort of like operates on its own.
Because I mean, for example,
the manufacturing in the US,
80% of the Toyotas that were sold last year
were built in the United States.
You know?
And I think that that's something,
a really big deal on what the Japanese company
that Toyota is to invest in the American economy, right?
And I think that's why we've also done so well.
But that being the case,
the factories are running at an average of 107% efficiency.
Oh, wow.
So they're churning out as much as they can,
and yet it's still a fairly scarce product.
So the uniqueness of a Toyota dealership is this one thing.
And for all my other Toyota dealers out there
and salespeople and sales managers,
they know that Toyotas are actually hard to come by.
So when trying to find your employee's car,
you know there was only one within 250 miles
that matched her description?
Really?
One.
One.
One.
And you got it for her.
Yes.
Kudos to you.
Your team.
You know, and that comes from good relationships
and stuff like that,
because you have to trade with other dealers
to know where to get what you need.
But with the amount of efficiency
and the amount of product they're putting out there,
it's actually still not enough,
because there's only about 1,240, 1,246 dealers in the US
in comparison to say a domestic like Chevy
where there are 3,600 dealers.
So, you know, that effect that the Chinese market has,
you know, I think it really is more on a global scale
that's kind of outside the US.
You know, what they're trying to do
with some other things,
whether it's, you know, products
or items in the car that they produce
and sort of that trade agreement,
I think that that's gonna have an affectation later.
But, you know, right now,
I think that everyone's just sort of trying
to figure out what's going on.
Yeah.
And in the product mix of Toyota,
and Toyota has been very vocal about hybrid technology
and obviously the Prius is just like the gold standard
for a hybrid.
And now they look cool.
And now they do look cool.
I will say they do now look cool.
With a set of rims,
like you could be pretty well set.
So do you think Porsche should,
because as I told you, they went from ICE
to Pure EV, Macan.
And we're starting to hear the,
and Porsche has hybrid technology,
but I think there is more of a under like emphasis
on hybrid technology in future Porsche products.
Do you think that's a good idea?
I think it has to be, right?
Because, you know, a lot of these companies in general,
let's say car companies,
they have to do what they have to do to survive, right?
And, you know, just because we want something,
you know, there's a decision that's made so high up
in the stratosphere that trickles down
to eventually culminate into that one droplet
that you want as a consumer,
you know, whether it's, you know,
someone's like, I want a manual ICE engine Macan.
Well, how does that happen, right?
Somebody's got to make a decision all the way up here.
And then it goes to R&D, then it goes to marketing,
then it goes to budgets, then it goes to manufacturing,
then it goes to testing, and then it goes to,
is this a, you know, a market item
that we can even put out?
You know, what's the audience for this market, right?
And then does it make sense?
Right, and that's the same,
we talk about this all the time,
how enthusiasts wants wagons.
There's a wagon guy over there.
Oh, yeah.
But the reality is, how many wagons can you sell?
I mean, sure.
Like, that's why every time.
For Therese Mo because people aren't buying.
People aren't buying them.
We love them as enthusiasts,
but when it comes down to putting our money down for it,
no one buys them.
So you can't fault.
And that's because somebody like me can't afford them new,
so we're hoping somebody else buys them
so we can get them used.
Yeah, but.
And that never happened.
The manufacturer can't hope to get your sale five years
from the time that they produce it.
But I can hope that it'll work.
What, I'm just curious,
what percentage are you just off hand
of your customers actually order a Toyota
versus buying one off the lot?
Or having you find one for them
and just bringing them in that are even built?
So a lot of our customers come in
and see what's available in the pipeline
and then sort of reserve it before it arrives.
Long before it arrives,
maybe like a month and two months, something like that.
So it's not necessarily like an ordering cycle
as much as it is that,
even for the Toyota customers,
they're actually well aware of the scarcity.
So they go, I'm looking for this.
Because that would have been the route
that we would have gone with your employee.
If it didn't exist, which it almost didn't, right?
You had one or there was one.
And all the dealers know that there's only one.
Oh, wow.
There was one.
So, well.
I don't have to tell her this later
because I don't know if she realizes that.
Yeah, but.
She said that with different dealers she talked to.
They all, I said, oh, do they have one there?
And she said no.
They said they can get one.
Right.
But they kept trying to sell her the car
that she didn't want.
She's there like, why don't you buy this one?
They're like, I want that one.
She said, why don't you buy this one?
I want that one.
Right.
And just as a circle,
I remember, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago,
they used to come to us and say,
what would it take for your members to order a Porsche?
Sure.
To dream Porsche.
And they would say, you know, you're buying your dream car.
Wouldn't you want it the way you want it?
And we would tell them, well, here,
we're used to driving to a lot
and coming home with the car that same night.
Not being told, well, in three months
you're gonna have your dream car.
Right.
And I said, so that's a mentality.
But after COVID hit, that was kind of like
almost forced upon.
And then people suddenly started saying,
oh, I can order all my cool options
that I want, my special color and everything.
And then, you know, Porsche realizing that
now they've got them exactly where they want them
started sending them emails saying,
hey, your car's just started being produced.
Here's the photo of it.
It's photo day two and whatnot.
So in the long, because of COVID,
I think Porsche got what they wanted
was people ordering their dream cars
versus the dealers ordering them.
Yeah.
And hoping they get the mix right.
But I still think they're ordering only black, silver
and white cars.
Well, funny statistic, black, silver and white.
What percentage of consumers do you think
own a black, white and silver car in the US?
Oh, I would say 70%.
Yeah, I would say 70%.
85%.
85%.
We're so boring.
We're so boring.
And that's why you look at the,
you complain why colors aren't available
because people don't buy them.
Because it's the market demand.
The market demand.
The dealers gonna order or put cars in their lot
that they can sell.
Bright yellow, I love blues, I love,
but people are gonna buy the gray one,
the silver one, the black one.
So you can't fault them for stocking those colors.
Yeah.
And I'm a, for the family car,
I'm definitely a victim of that, right?
You know, right now we have a black Sequoia.
I'm like, ah.
I love colors, but for some reason
I have mostly boring colors
because I buy them,
I get the best deal on used cars
that are kind of the ones that don't stand out, right?
Now to be fair, my 996 Turbo is silver,
but it's because I want it in silver.
But if you had the opportunity to get it in speed yellow
or like the green.
You still gotta live with it though.
Yeah.
It's different going to cars than coffee
and seeing one and seeing it.
It looks pretty cool.
I would love to have a bright color car
and I would rock it every day if I could.
You would drive that Rubystone Cayman that we had?
Absolutely, if I could afford it,
I would drive it every day.
Yeah, there's my car.
That's very nice.
That's typical German color.
Now you have the fairly rare front bumper guards on.
In the US, yeah.
Little boop boops, yeah.
Little boop boops.
Yep.
Very cool.
Yeah, I mean, it's super cool car,
but that's what I mean.
It's like I like the way that it looks, right?
I mean, you're right.
Well, let's take it back for a second.
If something were to be speed yellow,
I mean, it would be a roof.
Oh man, absolutely.
I mean, it's just sort of like,
for me a lot of times,
the identity of this car has to like match, right?
Right.
The only thing missing on your car is a PCA sticker.
Yeah, so.
And center caps.
No, we haven't gone that route yet.
Still don't have.
But we will definitely get you set up with that.
One last question before we kind of catch up on
the business end of the podcast is
Mani and Damon are always saying,
it's pretty interesting that we're sitting
in the middle of this paradigm shift
in the automotive industry.
And for a while there, it was like,
oh, it looks like we're gonna go full speed ahead
with EV.
Now we're starting to see hybrid technology
and as we were talking about my staff's car,
she moved into a hybrid and really didn't even flinch.
And she's getting more power, better gas mileage.
I'm not even sure she realized it.
I don't want to speak for Charlotte,
but I mentioned something about the battery.
Yeah.
Oh, it has this kind of warranty on it.
And she was like, is that good?
She doesn't even know she has a hybrid.
I didn't think that was a key thing.
That's what really surprised me.
I mean, we wonder how many people buying cameras
realize that they're buying a hybrid
because it doesn't say hybrid all over it.
And then it also made me wonder,
and I want to ask Steve Postel,
the general manager of Portion Valley,
how many people get in the new Macan
and don't realize it's an EV?
Oh, that's interesting.
Now we know from the look of it immediately it's an EV,
but how many people get in
and then are later told this is the EV?
Right, and we talked about the new GTS,
the number one prize for the Fall Raffle.
It's a GTS with staggering performance,
but they put T hybrid on the side of it.
And I'm like, why did you, you didn't need to do that.
I mean, maybe we did hear about
how you kind of have to put that for the first responders
so that they know that there's a battery and be able to.
I get that, but remember like the GMCs,
I think they had like green hybrid emblems
on the both sides, on the back, on the grill.
And it really only got like five miles more range
or whatever it was.
If it's a good performing car,
just leave it as a good performing car.
Like, why do you have to announce it in the world?
Now we got explained to them.
I can't tell you many times I've said,
it's not a Prius hybrid.
Because that's what they think,
that it's portion is making,
becoming more fuel efficient.
Right.
And I go, it's pure performance.
It's not like a Prius, I said, it's more power.
But it is in a sense like a Prius
where like you don't have to worry about it.
It's not like you're plugging in your GTS or anything.
Like you just drive it.
You just drive it and the battery takes care of itself.
They have plug-in hybrid Prius as well.
Correct.
They do, they have that as well.
Which I think is great because you get,
depending on your commute,
you might be able to pull off a four.
Yeah, I'll go all day without it.
It's the same thing though with a four-runner.
So they have a four-runner hybrid now.
New four-runner, sick car, super cool.
But the hybrid model,
it's specifically there for performance.
More power and more takeoff, all of that.
Yeah.
So I mean, it's the same ideology, right?
I mean, it's just, it's supplementary.
It's not a crutch anymore.
And I think there was a point in time
when the quickest zero to 60 Toyota
was actually a RAV4.
I think it was the RAV4.
Oh, I don't know that.
Like hybrid, whatever, with like 300 horsepower.
Like it was the quickest zero to 60 car for a little while.
I can see the comments coming in right now if you're wrong.
No, I actually remember something.
Am I, am I, I'm not dreaming this.
There was something about that like,
I don't know, three, five years ago.
I remember reading.
Exactly, because I remember going,
that was the thing.
The RAV4 was the fastest car in the Toyota.
What was the GMC cyclone back in the day
would be the fastest Ferrari could sell?
Fact-check me, people.
Fact-check me, people.
I just remember on top gear
when Jeremy Clarkson proved the M3 was more fuel efficient
than a Prius.
Oh yeah.
He would flat out around a racetrack,
getting better gas mileage.
I mean, to be fair, you know,
and I'm just giving you a little foresight
into the Toyota future,
but we're gonna soon see a GR RAV4.
GR RAV4?
I don't know, if you wanna look that up
and take a look at that,
this thing's actually pretty sick.
I should have sent you a picture of it
because it just came back from the National Tour.
I'll try and bring it up right now actually.
Interesting.
Okay.
It's cool.
It's a, it is a performance oriented RAV4.
Wow.
All right, folks.
Well, we're definitely gonna have to have you back
because I would love to talk more globally
about the dealerships and what they're facing.
It's a different world,
especially with EVs and hybrids
and where we believe a lot of the money-making
is for dealerships is in the service area
with cars that don't-
By the way, I'm just gonna cut in real quick.
Is it that one up there on the screen now
if you're watching YouTube?
Oh, on the red one.
It's the red one, okay.
320 horsepower.
Wow.
There you go.
Plug in hybrid.
Interesting.
All right, I wanna remind everyone to be sure
to head over to PCA.org to sign up
for PCA's newsletters, performance news,
e-brake news, and mart fresh all free.
In the news, Manny collected,
we're gonna kick that off with,
I saw the interior,
but this has to do with the new electric cayenne.
So now it's in the LA being tested.
And the main thing to take from this,
if you go to the auto evolution website,
is there's gigantic headlights
that everyone was seeing that was really ugly,
which I knew Porsche was just doing that to disguise it.
You can see the headlights are normal size.
They still got the sticker on it,
but you can see now the cut out for that.
It was just a sticker they put on there
to give the illusion of ginormous headlights.
And I wonder if it's the same with the cayenne,
the top quote unquote headlights that you're seeing
are actually just running lights.
And actually, will the headlights be down below
like the electric McCann?
I'm sure.
I'm sure.
It should be the same, right?
Yeah, same technology.
But not pictured is,
and I think it's gonna look really cool
because it looks cool in the McCann Electric.
It's the off-road package,
which on the McCann they did a phenomenal job.
So I can't wait to see what that will look like
as well, but it's almost here.
And the front end doesn't have gigantic headlights.
So everyone who said that was ugly,
I can't believe we're making that.
It's a disguise, folks.
And they maybe have another changes.
They do a great job of hiding stuff in plain sight.
And this is a good example.
Yeah, and some insiders we've spoken to
that have taken the new electric cayenne
around for a spin.
They were even more impressed with that platform
than they were when they were initially introduced
to the electric McCann.
So I can't wait to drive it myself.
That'd be pretty cool.
The next news item, I would say,
when you talk about lawsuits, it's not as fun,
but we should probably talk about it.
So this is a class section lawsuit
for the Porsche Mobile Charger Plus,
which is a charger for your house that was overheating.
And so Porsche's fix for this was to throttle down
the amperage so it was taking 20 hours to charge your car,
not the nine and a half to 10 and a half
that people were expecting.
So what was it?
Basically come home, plug in next morning,
go back to work, you had a full charge,
wasn't happening.
They found that was because instead of really
fixing the issue, they just throttled down
the amperage and hopefully no one would notice.
Someone noticed.
Everyone noticed.
So yeah, from when from 40 to 20 amps, I think,
which is pretty huge.
That's noticeable.
If you're, I'm sure if you own one of these chargers,
you have probably been contacted by the law firm.
And if not, just Google it and maybe you'll get
the new replacement charger,
whatever portion is going to do to fix this.
Well, as we're recording this,
I know several of the PCA members
are having a great time at Treffen Jackson Hole,
which sold out quickly,
but we are still accepting folks for Unstock 2025,
that's going to be November 16th
that Porsche Santa Clarita registration is open.
We're kind of getting down to the wire
of how much room we can accept people.
So if you plan to be there
and you want to show your modified Porsche,
go ahead and get registered soon
because we will close it.
Please send a good picture of your car.
You mean take the car out of the garage?
Close up of your engine tells me nothing about your car.
Yes, we want to make sure we understand
the modifications you've done to your car.
So I want to make sure and point you over
to PCASimRacing.com.
If you're looking to race with PCA folks online,
check it out.
We've got some how-tos
and we've got definitely some races you can watch
and we have some live coverage on PCA's YouTube channel
as well of some recent races.
And if you're looking for some PCA insider swag,
we have our bottles, we have our mugs
and t-shirts if you like.
And if you're just simply looking
for a PCA insider decal,
send your address information to podcastatpca.org
and we'll send you a set so you can show your love
for the PCA insider on your toolbox or on your car.
Finally, is there anything else
before we wrap this one up?
Nope, it was very enlightening.
Thank you for joining us.
And like I said, we have to have you back.
I have more dealership questions
that's definitely at least an hour long.
So thank you for coming out
and we are going to make you the newest PCA member
and make you official here before you get out of here.
Everyone, thank you for listening.
Be sure to like, comment and subscribe
and consider sharing our show with fellow Porsche enthusiasts.
Until next time, stay safe
and we'll catch you down the road.
I'll see you in the next one.
Bye.
About this episode
Martin Simon, a Toyota dealership general manager and Porsche enthusiast, shares insights on the evolving automotive landscape, particularly how Toyota is navigating market changes. He discusses the challenges of hybrid and electric vehicle integration, the importance of customer education, and the similarities between Toyota and Porsche's approaches to efficiency and performance. The episode also explores the impact of tariffs and market demand fluctuations, as well as the significance of maintaining brand identity amidst collaborations. Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the current state of the automotive industry from a dealer's perspective.
800 horsepower
aftermarket suspension
Auto Atlanta
bankruptcy
BBI
car community
Chavis Performance Engineering
engine compartment fan
just-in-time parts
lightweight flywheel
BMW 3 Series
BMW M3
Chevrolet Trax
Ford F-150
Honda Civic
Land Rover Range Rover
Mazda RX-7
Porsche 911
Porsche 914
Porsche 959
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Carrera GT
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Cayman
Porsche Macan
Porsche Panamera
Scion FR-S
Subaru Solterra
Tesla Model Y
Toyota Camry
Toyota Corolla
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Toyota Grand Highlander
Toyota MR2
Toyota Prius
Toyota RAV4
Toyota Supra
Toyota Tacoma
Original notes
Martin Simon, PCA member and General Manager of Ourisman Toyota, joins us in studio to talk about the car industry. We chat about how Toyota and Porsche are dealing with changes in the market and we get Martin’s thoughts on hybrids, EV’s and platform sharing. It’s interesting to hear from another brand and how it compares to Porsche.
Porsche Club Insider
Porsche Club of America
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