Debrief and Hats

This is, is off track.

Oh, I'm sorry, Tim, did you have a busy week?

Yeah, actually , Why don't you explain to the listeners, Tim, why your week was so Hard.

Oh. 'cause I had to work for a day.

I pulled in all day, or I didn't even take a nap yesterday.

Yeah, dude. That's, uh, one

of the more relatable things you've said on this show. Do

You think, do you think it was hard because your brain's compressed from that stupid Hat?

Yeah. Why are you still wearing that thing? Like, I thought,

Why are you still wearing that?

I thought that was just a guy Because I was having another, I was having another bad hair day.

You, I didn't think you had bad hair days.

That always looks the same, Tim. That looks, you

Haven't taken it for like a week.

I, this morning.

Take your hat off right now.

That's how you look. Going to like a

wedding .

There's no difference. Well, you know, to say you,

I'm getting a bad Hair day.

I'm getting a lot of comments about my hair lately and I'm, I'm getting sensitive about it.

Well, I'm, who's busy today?

Who's making comments about your hair? People online?

Yeah. Or

Your girl.

Oh, girlfriend. Do we listen to to them now?

Is that what we're doing? And

Her as well.

And her. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Here I was thinking you were falling into the trap

of listening to Haters online, but it's really just Girlfriend.

She did find that pretty funny. That's what I thought.

No, she likes the longer hair.

She just prefers that I, you know, do more and just wake up with it.

Yeah. Um,

It's very, it's very LA director producer of you though, to wear it. You look like

You should be.

You're always wearing a hat.

James, you're wearing a hat right now. Did Vic? That

Is My head. This is a big

Hat.

Doesn't No, that's a very LA yes. Producer, director of you.

It's, it's a big hat, but you have an enormous head.

And like, this is like this, this hat has some structure.

That's one of those completely unstructured hats and that's very popular in The film world.

A hat that I need to shop for. The options are limited. I

I Nobody's criticizing your hat selection.

We're just saying I'm, it feels like You're criticizing my hat.

Alex is very, he's being very open about criticizing my hat Selection.

No, no, no, no. It's, it's just comments observing that

that is also a style of hat that is common on criticism.

Lemme go ahead and ask. Hey Alex,

were you just observing Alex?

Nope. Alex, I sure wasn't .

No, no. Like I'm observing to criticize.

So you are both right. .

I, I support his statement in its observational capacity.

I do not support it in its critical capacity. You do? Okay.

Yeah, You do. No, I mean, it

looks terrible. That's not what I'm

saying. .

Oh, I'm Gonna need you both to examine your hair lines before you criticize anything going on up here.

All Alex to me Looking pretty good. Yeah.

you mean you mean that I've actually found out I have a pretty weird hairline too.

It's just, it's hidden it really Long hair, it very angular.

You gotta bring angular hairline.

It's weird. Like it has the ridges. I don't like it.

Oh, it's, Sorry, ridges. That's why Zoe

de Chanel with the bangs.

That's not all I have in common with Zoe De Chanel most of my life is modeled after her. Um,

Let's stop, let's stop there.

I feel like that's not great for any of us to learn about who's girl. It's

Tim .

To be fair, that show is ridiculously funny and that Entire cast love that show.

Excellent. It's a great show.

Um, yeah, so, so Tim had to work really hard this week and I'm glad that you did.

'cause it worked out well for everybody.

Yeah, that was a, that was a new one for us actually.

Breaking news. I mean, we didn't really

Break it considering it was announced like several hours before our, our stuff came out.

Well, part of it was first interview, Right? Like the Colton

Stuff interview broke an hour before our episode released.

The Will stuff broke Right. As our episode released.

Look, it was the first, it was the first interview I saw with, uh, either guy.

So I feel like we get some credit there. Yeah.

And after, after the second only interview with Mark Miles post the Fox announcement of buying IndyCar, that's like two kind of scoopy things that we've done.

We're getting pretty scoopy on off track. But

Can I talk about like, what made me really realize the difference between like us and actual journalists?

So James, you and I talked about this over the weekend in Nashville and we're like, okay, you know, we're gonna do this and here's the timeline.

Here's what stuff's gonna come out.

I don't text Alex on race weekends, so he was filled in after, Um, unless it's Can I go drink on your bus?

No, I text Kelly for that now.

Fair . Anyway, uh, right

after you tell me this, everybody stresses like exactly how secret all of this has to be.

How like, nobody can know that we're gonna be doing this or any of the news that's coming out.

And probably within 30 seconds of that, I got a text from Nathan Brown saying like, can't wait to listen to Off Track this week here.

It's going to be important. It was just like, oh.

So that's how like a real journalist gets information that quickly.

Like I would never be able to do that.

Like any illusion that I had that I was Woodward and Bernstein went away when it was like, oh no, no, James just told me what I was doing for work that week.

Oh, in turn, instead of like you having to go out and find a story you mean? Yeah,

Yeah.

Got it, got it, got it, got it. Yeah.

No, we're not real journalists.

I want that to be very clear.

Um, but I, uh, but like there we have some semblance of like a real news outlet now .

'cause we had two kind of stories, which is pretty neat guys.

Okay. So yeah, let me do, we wanna talk about like,

as we did the interviews, but you and I haven't got to like discuss Yeah.

The topic of the week. Yeah.

So should we talk about Coleman probably stepping away from IndyCar Yeah.

To be the Cadillac development and test driver and willpower stepping likely meaning he's gonna do F two unconfirmed, but kind of, uh, and then willpower stepping into the Android machine.

So, I mean, let's start at Colton. Holy man.

Like that's, I know we said it on the show like we said it to him, but like the balls that it takes to make that move, it's hard to, it's hard to overstate what a ballsy move that is.

You're right. Um,

but at the same time, I think when you're faced with that decision and the ballsy move is the only opportunity you have to potentially fulfill a dream that you've had since you were a kid, it's also a no brainer, right?

Like, I, I feel like the majority of people in his shoes would do that.

Not saying that it's an easy decision, but I completely understand why he's doing it and I don't second guess it whatsoever.

Like, so it, it makes sense to me regardless of the inherent risk that goes along with it.

It makes sense, does it? Not to you

On paper from 30,000 feet.

Okay. But when you are leaving the IndyCar race

that you just won and you're on your charter jet back to your mansion in Las Vegas and you're gonna golf, you know, two days that week and you're like, oh, I, I've gotta pretty much give up all of that to maybe make this dream come true.

I'm not saying that you wouldn't do it, but it's like, it's, it's so easy for us to sit here and be like, yeah, it makes sense.

But like, dude, people get comfortable, but, But you're not giving it up forever.

But you don't know that there's no guarantees in this business, man.

There's no guarantees in this business.

You know, like Will power could be winning championships till he is 50 or like I was gonna Say, it's not like anybody good is taking His seat. He doesn't need to

Worry about .

Let me, I mean, let's, let's stop, let's stop that conversation for a second because I think this is a very different situation to a, let's use the Sebastian Bordea example. Okay.

I'm glad you said that. Dom dominates in Jam car

wins four titles.

Is it Newman Ha is in the, the best equipment and and the best situation that he can have there leaves a, a championship winning organization and goes to an Italian kind of B team at the time in, in Toso, But at the level he wants to be at right? In formula. But at

The level, at the level he wants to be at Much easier call.

No, and here's where Guarantees, Okay.

No, but here's where I disagree with you because ultimately Colton has in, in some ways he has his cake and he's eating it too.

He is leaving the team that he is employed by to go work for the team that he is still employed by.

Yes, sure. Who is still gonna have a team that

exists under his current employer in the foreseeable couple of years.

If this all went terribly wrong, and don't tell me that Dan would be like, oh, this whole thing was a disaster.

Sorry kid, you're out. I I like my three guys now.

Thanks for playing. I don't believe that would happen.

Whereas Bordea said, thank you Carl Haas, I'm outta here.

I'm gonna go do my own thing with this whole new group of people.

If it works out, I've achieved my dream, great.

If it doesn't work out, I'm gonna have to now renegotiate and find myself in a different landscape.

Potentially. Maybe Newman host still exists

and maybe Newman host will have him back, but he's leaving the same employer.

He's under the same employer.

He is just going to a different department of that employer.

Right. So I don't agree

that while you say there's no guarantees, I think in some respects this has a safety net in It.

So the, I I completely understand what you're saying and that is completely logical and that is the more likely scenario.

If for some reason things over in Europe don't work out, the likely results would be colding, a backend Indy car with Andre.

Right. That is highly likely, but it's not a guarantee.

And like the, the analogy I would give is waking Up tomorrow isn't a guarantee.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Great point.

But like in a, I actually think he meant that as a threat.

, uh, the, the analogy that kind of, kind of comes to mind right?

Is let's say, okay, so when I decided to stop racing, any cars full time happened to coincide with a time where the TV broadcaster had an opening in the booth that they were trying to fill.

And I had showed an interest in that, whatever.

Okay, Tim, it is infuriating that you're a part of this show sometimes for viewers at home.

He just left and came back wearing a cowboy hat for an inexplicable reason.

Oh, I'm sorry. Criticizing.

Oh, I'm just against another hat. See, it's just No, just

all your choice of hats though.

The only hats that we dislike anyway, had I decided, oh, you know what I'm gonna, I'm gonna do one more year.

Jesus Christ . What?

This is Not good enough for you. Why is this?

Why do you even know that's the best one?

That's the best one you've got. Why do you even have that?

It's Hazel's that explains why it doesn't quite fit weird.

It's weird that it fits your well. I disagree. It

It sure doesn't .

No, it's, that's very real hair hanging out the side. Yeah.

Oh, got it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. James a time where it

Coincided.

No, no, I'm, I'm gonna let him change two or three more hats before I continue.

There's one more, but it's Upstairs so I'm probably gonna Unrelated.

I'll be right back. Yeah, that's what I thought.

So if I had decided to, like, you know what I'm gonna do one more year, but these guys have said they want me in the booth, but just one more year and they'll fill it with somebody and then I'll stop at the end of the next year and then I'll go in the booth and whoever they put in for that year ends up being like really good at the job.

They all of a sudden, like, eh, I don't know man.

Like you pass up an opportunity and, and he's here now and he's pretty good.

So, But James Sure.

Um, fortunately for Colton, uh, Andretti Global, which is um, has lots Of booths.

no, it's Yes. Is owned by his current employer,

um, has plenty of booths.

Yeah. Uh, so just because his his booth number is gone,

it doesn't mean that there's not Booth 27 and Booth 28 that exists. Yes.

So, yes. Okay. That's fair. Um, again, I agree with you.

I do think it's solid point, an awesome move.

Yeah, good point. Um, but yes, it is.

You just have to accept that there are no where, Where I think where I think the risk comes into play and where I agree with the, the balls that it takes is we all know in this sport you are, you're as good as your last race.

I mean, and, and that's just the, the fact of the matter.

So his stock value from a global perspective could potentially drop if, if the formula right?

Let's say he's racing in F two.

Again, that hasn't been confirmed, but we're just assuming that could be, for me, that's the bigger risk.

I fully think that if he finished 20th in F two next year, which he is not gonna do, he was still come back to IndyCar and race Indy cars and go win races and everything that would hurt his stock value.

That would hurt IndyCar's stock value.

And he would be left with this.

Like, I mean, that's a, that would be a tougher pill to swallow than had he never stepped out of his comfort zone and never done anything else and just was seen as one of the elite IndyCar drivers of this generation.

So his, his reputation is at risk per in, in that regard.

I don't think his career as a race car driver is in jeopardy by doing this decision. Is, I guess is,

I think it's my final point.

I think it's great. I think it's great.

And I think you brought up another really good point that we did not ask him about and did not make sure we pointed out to add just a fairly significant amount of pressure to the whole situation.

Uh, yeah. IndyCar's reputation is on the line here.

Every driver that's on the current grid who has lost races to Colin Herda is like, bro, don't, you don't <inaudible> don't <inaudible> this up for me.

Don't ruin this for us.

So that's actually kind of cool 'cause all these people that he used to race against are now gonna be cheering him on so hard.

Like the amount of support he is gonna get from the IndyCar paddock is more than he ever got when he was driving an IndyCar paddock.

No. Yes.

Like everyone is gonna be like, bitch, you better not miss an Apex .

But here's, here's where I feel you better see the good About it outta those tires, pal. Yeah.

Here's where I feel good about it is he's been in an F1 car and we have heard the reports from that very positive hello has been in an F1 car.

I saw that with my own eyes, very positive.

Patto has been in an F1 car. I've seen him do that.

Very positive. Colton is he races these guys like this is

the same, these are the same level of driver.

So the, the, the weird thing about F two is that, you know, certain drivers have kind of bad seasons in F two and it makes them look really bad.

But like look, I like, I made the joke, I think at some point probably on the show, it's like, it was pretty fortuitous that Ollie Bearman and Kimmy Antonelli had F1 deals kind of lined up before their last season of F two because neither one of them really killed it.

You know, they had a couple good races, but not like, oh my God, the whole F1 grid's gonna be rushing to sign this guy.

Uh, you know, they didn't finish top five in the championship.

I don't think. I kind of forget,

but they certainly weren't running up there at the beginning.

'cause teams are different and not all of them are great.

So even if he doesn't do well in F two, and I say that in a relative sense, let's say he finishes fourth in the championship in F two, right.

Wins a couple races, but three other guys beat him handily.

The the judgment call is gonna have to be made on how his performance is in fp ones in the F1 simulator in TPC testing because F two is just not always the most accurate barometer.

And, and, and the reason for that is it's very, it's very hard.

It's not very hard from a standpoint of the cars aren't complicated.

Um, the cars are actually pretty straightforward and cold is way, way too qualified.

Yeah. From a technical standpoint and understand

Probably less, probably less complicated than Indy car.

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Um,

but the people that usually are good enough to have been doing it for a couple of years mm-hmm .

And so yes, you obviously have these rookies that are outliers that adapt very quickly and they're in a very good situation.

And it just so happens that that year's car and tire just blends with their driving style and all this sort of thing.

But ultimately there's guys that the latter system to F1 is very similar to that of IndyCar.

Like, you don't go to Indy next regardless of your pedigree.

And immediately as rookie, just you're, you're not guaranteed to dominate.

It doesn't matter what you did in previous categories.

Obviously Kyle Kirkwood is an, but Colton wasn't, paddle wasn't, um, Christian Rasmussen wasn't like it.

It takes a little bit of acclimation.

And when you're going up against guys who might be in their second or third year and have seen these tracks before in these scenarios and the tires and this specific race craft that you have to have to make the tires last for the whole distance, considering there's only one pit stop and, and this sort of thing.

That's where I think it's gonna be really hard.

But ultimately, as we said on Tuesday, you're putting one of the best guys in who is up to the, up to the task because he's not someone who is stuck in his ways.

Like he's very adaptable.

Um, you know, I was concerned for him when I first knew that he was going from the B-M-W-G-T-L-M car to the Acura GTP car, which is a, a very, very difficult car to drive from a technique standpoint and a complete departure from an Indy car.

I would say the GTP actor's pretty close to how you would drive an F two car or even an F1 car.

And he immediately was like, bam.

Ricky Taylor, who was his teammate, was like instantly on the pace he actually finished the race for the team.

I think it was in, um, one of the endurance races.

I don't, I don't wanna quote which one.

And if you're finishing the race, it means you are the quickest driver throughout that entire kind of day slash weekend.

So I think he is, he is the best guy in IndyCar, aside from maybe a Alex Pallo, um, suited to adapt to this sort of thing and, and change his driving style on, on the fly.

Like he's gonna have to. So it's gonna be, I'm just, as much

as I'm excited for 2026 for IndyCar, I'm excited for 2026 just to watch that.

We need to figure out how, how are we gonna stream that.

I, I'm also like, I'm kind of, I'm kind of annoyed that it got announced so early 'cause now we've gotta like wait, like it would've been better to not really know until November and then he only had to wait a couple months.

Like, we gotta wait a while now for him to, to get making some some moves if he's Doing it, If he's doing it.

And then, all right, let's move on to the other side.

Will power coming in to Andretti that I don't think, was it, it was so interesting because like nobody thought there was an opening at Andretti until one of these rumors of, of Colin going to f two star, like Milwaukee, somebody, I think Marshall Pruitt said it on his podcast or something like that was the first time it had kind of been circulated. Really?

No, I mean it was July publicly mid July. But yeah.

And so as the, as the Will news kind of gets more and more, hey don't look like he's going back to Penske.

It was, oh, he's going to raha.

Oh they're gonna straight swap Ma Lucas for power and he's gonna go to the four car.

Like, there was all these scenarios being played out.

I heard, I heard somebody say that Nessi was going run a fourth car for him at one point.

Like all these crazy, you Knows PLO was going F1.

Well yeah, true. P was going F1 at one point

and like I feel like Andretti was just the bottom of the bottom of most people's Bingo cards.

And then all of a sudden this happens and, and there we go.

So how do you think, sorry, Tim, did you have something there?

Sorry. I was just gonna say, it's also interesting

that uh, you know, I think we, we commented on it, everybody else commented on it about how it was in his contract that he couldn't talk to other teams until, what was it, the first of this month.

And that ended up, you know, we, we learned yesterday that Roger let him do That.

Yeah, no, it was, I think it was even before that.

I think, actually, I think didn't Dan say that or will say one of them say that Road America Roger gave him after?

Yeah, it was like after Detroit. So like Road America time.

Um, yeah, he was allowed to start talking teams. Yeah.

And I'm sure he spoke to you.

'cause like I said, on Tuesday, every team in the paddock would've picked up the phone and been like, Hey man, what's, what's going on?

But dude, how about the fact that at the end of the day they did offer him a deal and he turned it down.

How about that? How about 17 years of the team, all

that success, the start of the year saying, yeah, no, I want to be here.

But by the end of the year it was like, you know what?

I don't know if this is the right spot for me anymore.

And he actually turned out.

So like that means Penske was really still trying to figure out what they were gonna do if willed said yes.

Is is Lucas just back at Fot for another season now that they've said now that they're like, oh no, we do want Will, but then Will said no.

Now are they like willingly taking the guy that they had kind of already decided wasn't ready, or at least wasn't better than Will.

Like this is a interesting situation is, Is Reus vk in in, Oh my God, yes.

In the game here announced today that Rena's VK is not returning to Del Coy racing.

So that's an interesting development.

I think a lot of people assumed that was happening.

That had been such a successful pairing.

And yes, Reinas had said, we, I was talking to their teams and whatever, but like you do the math on what seats are available and there wasn't really a lot of options.

Certainly not options that were running better in points than he was.

But he always said he is like, yeah, willpower's kinda the big domino here.

And we thought that was because, oh, maybe that opens us up the Foyt car or whatever.

But man, uni dubenski question mark.

I mean, potentially.

'cause here's, here's, um, well, is it true that Reus has more podiums in 2025 than Lucas Reus?

Doest have a podium this year. Does he?

Toronto? Oh yeah, of course. No, Lucas was podium.

Well he was, he ended up net second at the 500. Right,

Okay.

So same. Okay. I just,

He, he also, I mean, and, and Lucas's defense, he got boned out of a couple, like not guaranteed podiums, but races he was running right up front in Iowa.

In Milwaukee?

In Nashville, no, not Nashville, but Iowa and Milwaukee.

He had two where he got, was running up front and got totally bumped. But

Anyway.

Okay. Well, regardless, I I, um,

It's always more top tens.

It's, it's always been an interesting, an interesting thing for me, right?

Because we all, we all can see and know, um, that David is, is is probably the future of, of some organization, but very, very similar to college quarterbacks, right?

Like, that doesn't mean that when they get in the NFL, they're immediately at the level of whatever organization that they're playing for.

I still don't know yet if David is at the Team Penske level.

I mean, maybe he is and, and maybe that that's just me as competitor talking, um, without having all of the information that that clearly they do considering they're the, the kind of force behind the four car.

Um, but you know, we, we talked about it a lot.

It was always a weird, that was always a weird move, um, that was happening that Will was finding himself in that position.

But again, to your point, I think we touched on it after Portland, you know, when Will made that comment saying, who says it isn't up to me?

And I think that so much had happened over the past, over the summer where will felt that he wasn't being valued and he wasn't being cherished.

And, and after all of the, the time and commitment that he had put into the organization, he felt that, you know, he, especially being the highest running Penske driver throughout the entire season, shouldn't have been put in a position to be waiting for a contract sort of thing.

And I think that that really weighed heavily on him.

Um, so I wouldn't be surprised if, if ultimately that was the catalyst for, for his decision post Nashville.

What's, what's, what's important for, like, what's important for me, for myself to get out there is I I do feel like we've spoken a lot about the Power Lucas thing for the last several months, right?

And it was always like a what, like why is this a conversation?

What's happening here? And I wanna be very clear that like,

it, it, that is not an indication of, of the ability or the talent or the potential I think that Lucas has right?

And correct. And we've both said this,

but I just wanna be very clear about that.

This is in no way trying to put David down or, or undermine his success and his potential at all.

It's just that we were talking about willpower here, who is right on a different level from a Lot of that.

I don't think a single driver in the paddock, myself included, is in a place to be replacing willpower.

Like let's just put that out there.

Exactly. Let's just say that. Perfect.

Thank you. Perfect. So, so now

that willpower is not an option for the 12 car Penske have an opening and of the available drivers, where do you rank David?

Because like, he's gonna be at right at the top of that list, right?

Reus is obviously now a free agent. Mm-hmm .

Um, you know, Foster's locked up, but even if he wasn't still probably too young and too inexperienced and not enough, you know, not proven enough for that ride, who else is in a contract situation?

You know, the McLaren guys are all buttoned up.

Graham's not. No, I think, I think, I think

You're, it's purely between Lucas and, and Reus at this point, which is, so, so Reus was on a, on a similar trajectory as Lucas minus the Lucas supported, sorry, the Penske supported entry, right.

You know, reus was, was tipped as kind of the next hot young shoe.

Um, you know, we all saw that, um, Penske put a lot of credit in what, in what Joseph did with SFH, which became ECR.

Obviously Joseph turned out to be one of the best drivers, um, of, of this generation of IndyCar.

Reus was kind of doing the same path.

He, you know, ECR was was a small team.

He was winning races, he was winning Poles.

He almost won another race in Barber.

Um, he was very fast at Indianapolis, was consistently the best Chevy, um, even against Team Penske cars.

And I think for a while he was kind of slated as, you know, a, a tip or, or a one day a, a future Penske driver just because of, of his trajectory.

And then, you know, timing is everything in motorsports, right?

Penske, you know, ended up getting a pretty stout driver lineup with McLaughlin coming on and being as good as he was.

Obviously Joseph was winning championships and five hundreds Will was doing what he's doing.

So there wasn't really, at the time where Reus was maybe peaking, there wasn't really a spot for him.

And so Reus, you know, had to continue down a path that he was on.

And now that there is a seat and now that Reus had the year that he did in a team that, you know, is viewed as probably the bottom of the barrel in IndyCar, why wouldn't Penske be like, Hey, we were looking at this guy four years ago, we know what he's done.

What he did this year clearly has shown that he hasn't lost any of the ability that we knew he had, right?

Is he our guy? Because maybe through the last couple

of years at, at ECR, they had kind of been like, ah, he's, it's, it's not gonna be the right fit, or we don't think he's, he has the potential that we thought he had or whatever, but now that's all back.

So I don't know, maybe, I don't know.

That's just my guesstimations without knowing anything.

What I love about the REUS 2025 situation is, it is another example of which there are dozens and dozens in IndyCar over the years that proves how important the environment that a driver is in is to their success.

You would not look at Delco racing and ECR as equal teams from a resource standpoint, right?

Things at ECR did not work out for Reuss.

The results weren't there. Like that's, that's, you know,

as, as I, I know he was shocked that he was let go at the end of that term.

Um, but I, I think that's probably more just based on conversations that he'd had.

And if you like, just look at the outright performance of the team.

Like I, I get why I had wanted to make a a change, right?

It needed to happen. But then you take that guy,

that same dude a year later, put him in a team with less resource and they make magic happen more often than not.

And it just proves that to me, in a series where everything is so close and so tight, the people that you have around you, it's so critical, man.

You have to have the right engineer, you have to have the right data person, you need the right crew chief, you need the right team owner.

You need the right culture, environment and atmosphere to let you thrive as a driver.

And every driver's different, right?

In which environments make them reach their peak.

I I is unique. And so what I love about the, the reus

DCR experiment is it shows that yeah, reus found a place that he's very happy in and he's still very capable of, of delivering as a racing driver.

What would be interesting is if he did go to Penske, is that environment one that allows him to thrive and, and still be his best version because that's kind of known to be a bit of a unique environment even within the IndyCar world.

Well, I mean it's that, that point and that parallel, we have an example of that not to the scale of DCR to Penske, but we have it with DCR to Andretti, we have it with DCR to Nessi.

And, and a lot of people forget about Ed Jones, right?

Mm-hmm . No, ed Jones is not Reuss vk.

Ed Jones is not Rome Mount Rojan in terms of a talent level.

But people, ed Jones in a coin car had some as, as a rookie, like, had some really good results and good drives and good finishes and, and, and accomplished a lot and got put in the 10 car and it was a disaster immediately let go.

Okay? You do the same thing

with Rojan in the 18 was on pole at NDGP should have won probably two races, but that team in pit lane and, and just can't compete quite at the level that it needed to, but from a speed perspective, probably should have won two races, goes to Andretti and doesn't.

Yes, he probably should have won a couple of races than Andretti too.

But the point is, the end result at the end of the year was substantially worse and the environment was worse and it didn't, it didn't end up being successful.

Mm-hmm . And so he ends up out of a, out of a, out

of race car after a year at Juncos, right?

So it's a very interesting point, but the same point could be said for really anyone, you know, Lucas, a hundred percent.

If we take that example, right, I mean it's, it's pretty cool.

You look at, let's use Red Bull F1 as an example, okay? It's

Just a guess thing.

They're different cars, I understand that, but ultimately, you know, you've got Red Bull, which is, let's call it the Penske, right?

And then you have Racing Bulls, which is the AJ Foyt.

So you're getting the technical support, you're getting the help, you're getting the engineering support, management support from the big team, but you're in the younger kind of more relaxed, more fun environment.

No one's really expecting anything of you.

It's just go out and drive as fast as you can.

And if you get a result, wow, you're a hero.

And if you don't, it's like, yeah.

I mean, okay, that's to be expected, right?

Again, same thing in a, in a Foyt car, it's like you're driving for Foyt, we're not expecting you to win races, but you're qualifying on the front row, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.

Boom, you're in the 12 car.

Now we need race wins challenging for five, five hundreds, dude competing for championships.

I was having this conversation with someone yesterday when you are in the Foy car and, and, and like, again, this is, this is very kind of specifically the, the Lucas situation, right?

And again, I feel like we, I feel like I, I hope he knows this like I'm a fan, fine.

Let's, I'm a David Luc fan, right? Let, right,

Let's, let's stop using this as an example.

Let's talk about the Shenk guys. 'cause it's the same thing.

It's the exact same thing that Armstrong's dealing with right Now.

Okay. But, but let's look.

Well, but it's it's in reverse though.

So like, my, my point about, about Dave was, you know, he, so he switches to Foy and there's the, the Penske Alliance, whatever find cool when you're at that team, bad days are kind of glossed over and good days are celebrated a lot, right?

People really remember those pop performances and they kind of just, the, the 15th place finishes sort of dissolve into the ether because everyone's like, well it's a white car anyway.

Say you're focused on the winter, whatever, whatever.

But when you're at Penske, the baseline is so high that bad days are probably actually focused on more than your good days.

You're celebrated. 'cause the good days are the expectation

and the bad days are the standouts that are actually gonna get a lot of focus and attention.

And that's just a really different environment for a driver to be in.

And you know, there's, Dave's done nothing to say that he can't perform under that kind of pressure.

Like the way he jumped back into MSR after getting dropped by McLaren was cinema.

It's beautiful. It was, it was incredible.

Still injured, still coming back.

Not sure how he was gonna do and he killed it.

Like that's what led to this opportunity in a lot of ways.

So I'm not saying I don't think you can do it, but it is gonna be a very, very different kinda kind of situation where, you know, your good days, you're kind of like the gentle pat on the back, like, good job, you did your job and the bad days.

You're like, well what's going on here? Like, this is bad.

We need to fix this. And it's, it's an interesting,

it's an interesting situation to know you're going into if that's, if that's the move.

But I think it's the exact same thing with the MSR. I don't think it's the opposite

For Armstrong. How do you mean?

Well, so Armstrong is a Nessy employee, right? Ultimately.

Sure. Not having, well he is, he's under contract with CGR

but ultimately is not in CGR at CGR and he's not Alex Pelosi's teammate.

Okay. He is Felix Rosenquist teammate. Oh no.

Because no, you gotta call a spade a spade.

Ma Lucas took the same exact car that will did to ninth in the championship to 13th.

So you'd say that despite all of the discrepancies between Willpower and David Lucas or Willpower, or Team Penske and AJ Foyt, like it actually, the end result ended up being pretty close.

Right. David had some bad luck, will had some bad luck.

I mean, he beat Joseph in the championship.

So my point is the, the smaller team, subsidiary team expectation, because people are, are hailing the year that Felix and Marcus had, which is granted it was the best year the MSR had had from a championship standpoint, both cars in the top 10, both cars were on the podium at different points, they were good across all tracks, yada, yada, yada. And that is true,

And that is Correct first and third, but PLO and Dixon were first and third.

So wait, and so, so you can't say that, you can't say that that Armstrong's not Polo's teammate and then compare them in the championship in that way, right?

You have to accept like, what's the definition of a teammate in this sense?

They share engineering, they share setups like for all they share data for all intents and purposes, they're teammates, right?

But that's the exact same thing as I guess the Lucas situation at Foyt.

Yeah, yeah. I'm saying if you're,

if you're gonna compare Lucas and power for having the same Car, no, that wasn't you, that wasn't my point.

No, that wasn't my point. My point was echoing

what you were saying in terms of when you're on the smaller team, people are celebrating the Right, sorry, yes.

The big days. Yes. Right. And

Not really Thinking about it because it's like, oh, he drives for MSR Well, it's like, no, not really.

I mean, he drives for asse, right? So it's the same.

Yeah, yeah, it's the same thing.

So whereas the media and, and ultimately this is all really we're discussing the fans, we're discussing the media perception, everything.

I can guarantee you internally Penske is analyzing what David is doing every single session for sure at Foyt.

Yeah. So if, if they're gonna put him in the car,

they are gonna, they feel that he's ready.

It's not like they don't have the information.

It's not like they're just looking at a, a score box at the end of, of the weekend.

So I guess full circle, what I'm saying is, while it's all maybe a surprise to everyone as we discussed that someone would be replacing willpower if he is given the nod, it's because they've seen and they know way more than all we do, that he is more than capable of filling those shoes.

So I guess that's a hundred percent, that's my end end point With the slight caveat being that they offer Bill a contract.

So of the allegedly guys available, allegedly.

No, I think Penske had said that in their thing.

Did okay, or Yes.

I don't think they said they offered, offered him a contract.

They said Will, will decided to go his own way and decided something else was good for the future.

There's a lot of times where teams had been asked to put it that way so that it doesn't look as though the driver's getting fired. That

Is true. I just wanna check.

And yeah, I guess the counter to that would be that, uh, you know, we heard from Will that he claims that they, they did offer Him so Well, I was, I was not on that part of the show, so my apologies.

Oh yeah, I forgot. Yeah. Anyways,

that point doesn't really matter.

Um, what does matter is people watched in Nashville. Hell, oh,

Bro, yes they did.

Yeah. Like, look, we're gonna save talking about Nashville

for next week 'cause we don't have a race to talk about.

Uh, so, and we're outta time, but let's just, let's just high actually, yeah, I do wanna quickly touch on this incredible, uh, run.

So yes, the Nashville Race, uh, delivered 1.1 million viewers peaked, I think 1.3

and over the course of the year, let's round of applause for Fox Sports in year one.

Obviously we know any 507 million averaging over the entire season.

1.362 million viewers,

which is a 27% year over year increase in the most watched season in 17 years.

Most audience growth for plus 27% for any sport averaging at least a million viewers.

Massive lift in the 18 to 34 and 18 to 49 demographics, 81 and 51% respectively.

Uh, huge increase in female viewers with females 18 to 34 up 72% and females 18 to 49, up 30%. Thanks

Patto.

Thanks Patto. So yeah, guys, look, big deal.

It's a, it's awesome and I can tell you it's to a lot of hard work, man. ,

I saw it all happen in the background.

Uh, I contributed very little, tiny little bit myself, but the, the, the group at Fox that, uh, that jumped into this program, and we've talked about it a lot at the top of the year, so many people were brand new to IndyCar.

A bunch were brand new to motor sports, and they showed up and it, it improved, I think every single week.

The efforts from, again, every single member of, you know, people from IMSP, the people from Fox, everybody that touched the broadcast, uh, was, was a monumental one.

And it was one that, uh, I watched a lot of people that, again, were brand new to this sport, kind of slowly fall in love with IndyCar racing, because that's what happens when you get exposed to IndyCar racing.

You fall in love with IndyCar racing.

And, uh, and this year obviously 1.3 million people on

average, were watching IndyCar racing and we're slowly getting more of the country to fall in love with it.

So, um, yeah, huge credit to Fox Sports. Huge applause.

Huge thank you for year one and more exciting stuff to come.

But I think we in there and we talk Nashville next week and, and Markham, so, oh, and Markum, oh God.

We might even have a schedule by the time we record next week.

Who knows? God, Marco, there's no chance.

Yeah, we gotta talk, we gotta talk about Markham.

Very excited. All right, thanks guys.

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