Diagnostics is how a mechanic figures out what’s really causing the problem. Instead of guessing, they use clues from the car and tests to find the exact cause.
OBD is the car’s self-check system. When something is wrong, it can store codes and sensor readings that a scan tool can read to help figure out the problem.
Continuing education in automotive repair means regularly updating skills and diagnostic methods as vehicle technology changes. Modern cars rely heavily on sensors, software, and scan-tool workflows, so ongoing training helps technicians stay effective.
A diagnosis methodology is a systematic way to troubleshoot. Instead of jumping around, you follow steps to narrow down what’s causing the issue.
Concept
forensic approach
A forensic approach means you treat car troubleshooting like solving a mystery. You look for clues, test ideas, and confirm what’s actually wrong instead of just guessing.
Company
Delco
Delco is a name tied to automotive electronics. If someone worked for Delco, they likely had experience with the car’s electrical systems—things that are often key in diagnosing problems.
To “diagnose” means figuring out what’s really causing a problem, not just what part looks broken. A good approach uses evidence from the car (like codes and test results) to narrow down the real cause.
A “scanner” is a device that plugs into your car and talks to the computer. It can show error codes that tell you what the car thinks is wrong, which makes diagnosis faster and more accurate.
A learning curve just means it takes time to get good at something. Early on, you spend more time figuring things out, but it gets faster as you learn.
Instead of guessing every time, you keep notes from past problems you solved. Later, you can look back and find patterns that help you figure out similar issues faster.
A technician shortage means shops can’t find enough skilled people to work on cars. When that happens, owners often have to invest more in training the technicians they already have.
This just means you keep learning over time instead of stopping after you get good at the job. In car diagnostics, that helps because cars and computer systems keep changing.
The host mentions “60 hours” of continuing education and tracking it, implying a structured training requirement. This is an example of quantifying education so it becomes part of the shop’s culture and expectations.
The hosts discuss a “tool rebate” program tied to training and tool purchases. This is relevant to shop operations because rebates can offset the cost of diagnostic equipment and encourage continued education.
A scan tool is a gadget that plugs into your car to talk to its computer. It can show trouble codes and sensor readings so a mechanic can figure out what’s wrong. Using more than one scan tool can help verify the results are trustworthy.
Specialist technicians focus on a narrower area (like suspension, alignment, or engine teardown) rather than trying to be experts at everything. This can improve repair quality because they develop deeper experience with specific systems and common failure patterns.
Alignment is adjusting the wheels so they point the right way. If it’s off, the car can pull and tires wear faster, so an alignment specialist fixes that.
Thermal management is how the car keeps important parts at the right temperature. A specialist helps when cooling/heating problems cause the car to run poorly or protect components by limiting performance.
This is about making sure the training you send technicians to is actually worth it. It also means matching training to what your shop really needs, so people don’t waste time on the wrong stuff.
In-house training is when the training happens at your own shop instead of at a big conference. It often costs less and can be focused on the exact kinds of problems your technicians see most.
Localized training means the training is customized to fit your local shop and the cars you work on. Instead of generic advice, it focuses on the real problems you see in your area.
Company
NAP AutoCare
NAP AutoCare is a program that helps repair shops offer consistent service and warranty coverage. It’s meant to make customers feel safer when they pay for repairs.
That’s a warranty that promises coverage for a set time and mileage. If something covered goes wrong within that window, the shop is responsible for making it right.
The Ford Edge is a mid-size SUV made by Ford. It’s designed to carry people and gear comfortably for regular daily trips. The “Edge” name is also used in the podcast line as a wordplay about having an advantage.
They’re saying using a specific credit card for certain repairs may qualify you for extra warranty coverage. It’s basically a benefits program tied to payment.
“OEM” means the original car manufacturer. Saying a part meets OEM standards means it’s designed to be the same kind of quality and fit as the original part.
These are replacement parts made by NAPA that are meant to be as good as the original parts from the car maker. The idea is that repairs should fit and work correctly, not just “sort of” work.
A shop management system is the software a repair shop uses to keep everything organized. It helps the shop manage jobs and customers so work doesn’t get missed.
NAPA Tracks is software for auto repair shops. It helps manage the business day-to-day—like organizing work and tracking performance—so the shop can run more smoothly.
Remote refresher training means extra training sessions you can do from anywhere. It helps keep shop staff up to date without needing someone to travel.
A pre-scan is like taking a snapshot of the car’s warning codes before you fix anything. A post-scan is the same check after the repair to make sure the problem is truly gone. It’s a simple way to avoid fixing the wrong thing.
You scan the car before work to see what it’s complaining about, then scan again after. That way you can confirm the fix actually worked, not just that the warning light went off temporarily.
Monitors are the car’s built-in tests that run in the background. If they’re not “set” yet, it can mean the car hasn’t finished its checks or something reset them, so you can’t fully trust the diagnostic results yet.
Concept
diagnostic communication
Communication here means explaining the plan and expectations to the customer before you start. If new warning codes show up later, the customer understands why instead of feeling like the shop missed something.
Term
comebacks
A “comeback” is when the car has to go back to the shop because the problem didn’t really get solved. Careful diagnostics and follow-up checks help prevent that.
A systematic approach is a step-by-step way to diagnose problems instead of guessing. It helps you work logically from the most likely causes to the confirmed cause.
SOPs are basically the shop’s “checklist rules” for how to do diagnostics and repairs the same way every time. When everyone follows them, it’s less likely that something important gets skipped.
The idea is that if your checklist and steps are well thought out—and you keep improving them—they’ll prevent a lot of mistakes. It’s like updating your method based on what you’ve learned from past jobs.
The check engine light means the car’s computer noticed a problem. It doesn’t tell you exactly what’s wrong by itself, so the next step is usually to scan the car for stored codes.
“Pulling the codes” means using an OBD-II scan tool to read stored diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) from the vehicle’s computer. Those codes guide the next diagnostic steps and help narrow down whether the issue is sensor-related, mechanical, or related to emissions systems.
A “misfire code” means the car’s computer thinks the engine isn’t burning fuel properly in one or more cylinders. That can make the car run rough or feel like it’s jerking while driving.
Flat rate means the shop gets paid a fixed amount for a repair, based on a time guide. That can make technicians try to work faster and more consistently.
This is a way of organizing your troubleshooting so you don’t just guess. You map out possibilities step-by-step, based on what you find, so you can get to the real cause faster.
Here, “forensics” means diagnosing like a detective. Instead of guessing, you use the clues from the car (like codes and symptoms) to figure out what’s really wrong.
They’re describing a visual way to keep track of clues. In car terms, it’s like writing down what you’ve checked and how each result points toward (or away from) certain problems.
A mind map is a diagram that helps you organize thoughts. Instead of guessing randomly, you lay out the problem and list possible causes in a clear, step-by-step way.
Term
fuel as ignition
This phrase is pointing at how fuel and ignition work together to make the engine run. If something’s off, the engine may misfire, and the cause could be related to fuel delivery, spark/ignition, or both.
Data acquisition just means getting actual readings from the car, like sensor values. That way you’re not guessing—you’re using evidence to narrow down the cause.
The funneling effect means you start broad—many possible causes—then use clues to narrow down to the most likely one. It helps you stop chasing random ideas and focus on what matters.
The whiteboard is a quick note the shop leaves where everyone can see it. It helps prevent mistakes, like starting the car when it shouldn’t be started, and it reminds the next person what’s going on.
Sometimes a shop has to wait for permission before doing the next repair step. The important part is keeping the car organized and safe so the customer doesn’t get surprised by unfinished work.
A quality control (QC) process is the internal step where a shop verifies the work is complete and correct before returning the vehicle to the customer. In diagnostics, QC is especially important when repairs are declined or the car is brought back later, because it prevents incomplete work from being missed.
Term
hanging suspension parts
Suspension parts are the pieces that connect your wheels to the car. If they’re worn or installed wrong, the car can feel off—like it doesn’t ride smoothly or handle predictably.
Concept
foundational stuff
The hosts are emphasizing “foundational” diagnostic knowledge—starting with basics before jumping to advanced theories. In automotive diagnostics, strong fundamentals help you interpret symptoms correctly and avoid misdiagnosis when multiple systems could be involved.
Concept
technical phone calls
They’re talking about diagnosing problems over the phone, not in person. That’s harder because you can’t immediately inspect the car, so you need a clear process to avoid guessing.
In automotive diagnostics, “foundational” refers to the core principles you use every time—like how to interpret symptoms, verify faults methodically, and avoid jumping to conclusions. The host’s point is that advanced cases still rely on these basics, so periodic refreshers prevent gaps from forming over time.
The segment discusses using online training platforms from parts suppliers to keep diagnostic skills current. It’s framed as a recurring practice (quarterly) rather than a one-time learning event.
CarQuest is another large automotive parts and service supply brand that also supports training and education for technicians. The host is using it as an example of a provider that may offer foundational diagnostic refreshers.
It’s when someone doesn’t know much about something, but feels confident anyway. In car troubleshooting, that can cause you to guess what’s wrong instead of checking the evidence first.
Term
mechanical conditioning
Mechanical conditioning means getting the car into a consistent, testable state before you start diagnosing. It’s basically making sure the measurements you take will actually tell you something useful.
Cylinder pressure analysis is like taking a close-up measurement of how each cylinder is burning fuel. Instead of guessing, you can see whether the engine is compressing and combusting correctly.
Term
three six Chrysler
“Three six Chrysler” appears to refer to a Chrysler 3.6-liter engine family, which some people may associate with certain recurring issues. The host is warning that preconceptions about a specific engine can bias trainees away from the actual diagnostic process.
A “Chrysler Six” is an older Chrysler car that came with a six-cylinder engine. The podcast is likely correcting a misunderstanding about what that specific model is. It’s being mentioned to help listeners identify the right car and not assume it’s something else.
LIVE
This is the Automotive Repair Podcast Network.
Hey everybody, Karm Capriotto,
Remarkable Results Radio,
we're at the TST BigEvent, the 23rd annual.
This morning, I had the honor to listen to Andrew Fisher.
You all know I'm not a specialist.
I don't own a toolbox,
although I have a lot of really cool tools to keep the house in order.
I was really fascinated by all the things that he was covering.
And I don't know, a lot of you know Andrew Fisher.
We're going to talk to him here in a few minutes.
Don't forget about the cool.
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they're all on there.
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It's a singular home for some of the best content
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And also, thank you so much to our great sponsors.
Hey, welcome back. I'm with Andrew Fisher. Hello, Andrew.
How's it going, Carl?
Good. Shop manager out in northwest Indiana.
And the name of the shop is?
It's Sergacin's Automotive.
So think of Ferguson with the C.
Sergacin's. How long you been there?
I've been over there almost three years now.
Three years?
I've been there three years.
And you're doing all this traveling, all these training.
I mean, you just did a three hour seminar here at the TST Big Event.
What was the title of that that I just watched?
I did OBD, Diagnostics with OBD.
So we went back to kind of bringing back technology
that was talked about a lot 20 years ago.
But I feel it needed to be talked about again.
You know, got a lot of young technicians coming up.
The feedback in the room was really off the charts.
Yeah, it was amazing.
I was it's humbling because they grab you, they talk to you about it.
And I was really nervous.
I didn't know how well received this was going to be.
I have a lot of takeaways from what I heard you say.
And no, this isn't necessarily going to be an episode on technology,
except for the fact that Andrew believes in continuing education.
He'll tell you how many hours he thinks you should have.
And the methodology that Andrew uses to solve problems,
to come up with a great diagnosis, you landed in almost every great point
today that I think top shops need to know and understand and respect.
You started off your speech by honoring someone
who has been a great mentor to you.
And we're going to interview Ken while we're here.
That's awesome.
Who? Ken, who? Ken's Andrew is, you know, he's a gem of a person.
I'm sure you guys can hear the emotion.
He's just, you know, I wouldn't be where I'm at without Ken.
Thirty years I've known Ken.
So basically, I asked Andrew before we started.
And I said, so if you're in this business for 30 years
and you don't look a day over 38 or nine, how did that happen?
And he told me, so, you know, my grandfather was a shade tree.
So he worked at a paint manufacturing facility in South Chicago Heights,
but he loved cars.
But more importantly, he loved the diagnostic end of cars.
So he ran a makeshift shop out of his garage.
And I don't know how it ever came about, but he got linked up with Ken
when Ken was still teaching for Delco out in the Chicagoland area.
And grandpa was a gold school pollock.
He couldn't read his own handwriting.
So you have five, six year old me with not much better handwriting.
Go and take notes and the rest is history.
I mean, it's surreal when you think about it.
You think it's been this long, but Ken's, you know, just been
just a huge influence in me and the way I present.
I always joke you'll hear Kenny isms when I speak.
It's just great.
There's really no words to put my affection for Ken.
One of the most humble guys in the industry.
And so many of the things that it seems to me that you're out there sharing.
You're not the sage on the stage.
I just look, you're the most humble guy.
You say, hey, you may have better answers than I, but let me share with you
how I interpret, how I diagnose.
But you said some like important things like
you can't become a top tier dyag person without continuing education.
And it doesn't matter how you get it.
Tell us how many hours you believe in.
Tell me of all the input areas that you can get your education from.
You know, I'm a big believer of 40 hours is always thrown around.
You hear a lot of us technical trainers talk about it, a lot of shop owners do.
I feel that's a minimum 40 hours minimum a year for continued education.
But it's not always your butt planted in a seed either.
But you get a new tool or you get a new product you've never seen before.
You put in 10, 15 minutes a day trying to get better.
I mean, think of it like a musical instrument.
You spend 15 minutes a day getting better at the end of the year.
How much better are you between all the other resources?
I mean, scanner dinner that you can't speak enough about, Paul,
you know, you've got those resources.
You hear the excuses all the time.
I don't have time to train.
I don't have time to go to these events.
The amount of online stuff that's given out for free.
I mean, World Pack does their lunch and learns an hour a week and it's free.
I mean, you're talking outside of holidays about 48 to 50 free events,
50 hours that you can attend just doing that during your lunch break.
OK, let me stop you for a moment.
You told a great story about you go into the bathroom, you do 20 minute throne thing.
And if you were watching Paul, for example, scanner dinner,
then get it onto your chart that you spend 15 minutes in a learning curve.
Part of I think was your point is if you're going to do your own personal case studies.
And not as because you want to go out and be a teacher,
but if you record the things that you're learning, you could always search and go back
and find out maybe there is a quick shortcut in how I diagnose this particular vehicle.
You got to write down the kind of education that you're getting, number one.
But number two, where is the shop owner in this commitment to education?
Listen, 40 to 60 hours.
Is the owner on board or are there enough owners on board to make that happen?
I think so. You hesitated.
I did. I did.
So, you know, it's as a trainer that I'm blessed, I get to travel the country.
So being at these events, you see the exception, not the norm.
So from what I see from my perspective,
I think there's more of it out there than we realize, but we still got a long way to go.
You know, continued education.
Jim Morton says it best.
Training doesn't cost a pace, but then you hear how do you measure ROI on training?
I think the ROI is on the comebacks.
If you're doing continued ed, your comeback ratio drops.
You know, obviously we need more on board, but I do think, again,
from my perception, because what I see, I think it's starting to get there.
You hear it all the time.
We don't have technicians.
We don't have this. We don't have that.
Well, you don't have text because you've never wanted to improve them.
I think this technician shortage is kind of forcing
a lot of shop owners to rethink the training aspect.
We've got to lift the people we currently have.
I said, there's a shortage and there's not any good people out there.
But as an owner, wouldn't you want to make your people good?
Yeah, you got to build them.
At this point, I taught high school for two years.
And my observations were they still push college and I'm not knocking college.
I think that's a great.
Don't get me started on college for a lot of people don't.
But the problem is, is we oversaturated.
We look past the trades and, you know, Northwest Indiana, Chicago,
we're built on trades.
We're built on the tradesmen and we've lost sight of it.
And until we improve there, we're going to continue to have a shortage.
So it really takes us, you know, and I get on a pedestal all the time.
You know, I tell shop owners, I tell shop foreman, other technicians,
if you're not part of your advisory council, screaming from the rooftops
at your local community colleges or high schools, what it is we do,
we're going to continue to have a shortage.
It's not the same perception that we've had for the last 30, 40 years.
We've got to make the change.
Now, don't get me wrong, when I talked about college,
my argument against college is to go to the four year bachelor's program
and that basically gets you the high school education.
You they were usually giving about 30 or 40 years ago.
And then you got to go for your masters
in order to get a real live college education and all the debt.
And I loved your point and I believe in the word career versus trade
because I'm an advisor on our local college.
We're working so hard.
In fact, we're getting ready to have a waiting list for our freshman class.
We're excited about it because we've made so many important inroads
in recognizing young people who want to work with their hands
but not join a trade, but get the kind of career
that this industry can offer because we and you know this
and we don't promote it enough.
We're a high tech industry.
We are to the point where all the presentations
that are going on here at the TST big event is all high level
dyag stuff.
And when you take this stuff away
and you commit to wanting to go to the next level, whatever that is for you
and that is to be a top tier dyag person
so that you can learn from what you've done
and maybe figure out like great point.
You did this great case study.
Fifty percent of the room knew the answer to your case study
and the other 50 percent didn't.
And so I'm talking.
Well, I knew exactly what Andrew should have done.
And it's God bless you, great.
You're a top tier.
And this is what your entire 20 years ago, you wouldn't have known, right?
And maybe even five.
But every day that you continue to grind away
and do this continuous education thing,
you're adding to the value that you bring
to the shop you're working for.
And I guess this whole rant that I've been on
is the owners need to step up and bring
continuing education to the highest degree of the culture of the company.
And to say 60 hours, we're going to track it.
A lot of the honor system.
I'm going to bring in some people.
We're going to go to major classes together.
And one of the thoughts, this is the great thought,
and I'm going to shut up here in a minute.
We were doing some episodes recently on Napa's team tool rebate.
And one thing that just recently hit me was
if you can meet your educational training goals of ours
when we get our tool money in October of every year,
we're going to slice it up amongst every hour that you've trained up 40 and over.
40 and over, you get a slice of that pie.
Because who is it saying?
How many scan tools did you say?
This case studies, I put these five scan tools on it to continue to prove
that they were all right.
So anyway, I said my little piece here, go again.
I'm in a different situation because we get to see the people that are committed.
You obviously hear it.
You hear from your peers, you know, some of the issues running into.
But at the end of the day, the shop's not training.
I see them shutting down.
The reality is you're seeing a lot of shops shut down.
And it's not because they can't employ people.
That might be what they tell you it is.
But it's because they're not willing to make the investment.
The shops that are flourishing are the shops that are committed.
And they know that in order to progress, we've got to train our guys.
And it may not just be diagnostics.
We put a lot of emphasis on this, but you speak on the specialization all the time.
Yeah. You know, that's the other thing we got to be careful.
I think Matt says it best.
We over romanticize sometimes the diagnostic stuff.
But at the end of the day, I need a specialist in breaks and suspension.
That's an alignment specialist.
I need an engine tear down a trend.
We need these specialists.
And the only way we're going to create that is we have to train and build them in house.
And we have to seek that level of professionalism and speak that to our clients.
And the more we tell our clients about our calibration specialists
and our thermal management specialists and all these people
that we continue to work hard to train so that we can give your car its due.
And whatever that due is, we're, you know, I guess there's a point
where you just can't experiment on every vehicle you get because you have no clue what to do.
Yeah. Yeah, it happens.
You know what?
And it'll happen again next week for you because something will come in that you've never seen before.
You're smart enough to know that it's not going to take three hours to figure it out.
Maybe an hour versus maybe three quarters of an hour on one that you really know.
You know, Keith Perkins, I interviewed him earlier and he talked about the 700,000
or so specialist technicians that we have out there.
And you said it, you got in front and you said, listen, we're in New York.
There's like four hundred and some people in the class.
There should be ten thousands.
There should be thousands in this class.
This thing we should have had one week for the next year
to train in this, if you will, Greater New York, New England area.
Where are they?
And I know it's a Saturday and I know we have a very difficult life.
But if here's my point, if the owners were committed and involved
in the continuing education program and New TST was going on and say,
you're going, I'll be there with you, let's go.
The education that they would have received to bring back the shop pays tenfold.
Maybe not tomorrow, but over the course of maybe two or three next months,
they're going to go out and say, oh, you remember Andrew said this?
You remember that screenshot?
Remember Kenny said that?
And Keith said this and Tracy's keynote about communications
and we're doing a terrible job.
It's every day you need to learn something new
and not sit behind the job no matter what it is that you're making
and think that you know everything because you can't.
You're the guy who says, my God,
I can't wait to go out and learn something new next week.
Yeah, I mean, why did you get into this?
It's not I could have went to work at a steel mill.
You know, we got the steel mills back home, Northwest Indiana.
I could have done that.
But, you know, most of us that get into this trade, we do this
because we want something different every day.
And I do think a vast majority of technicians that are in it are after the chase
to get better to prove themselves.
There's a little bit of ego involved, right?
Like you have to have some ego that I can rip the shirt off once in a while
and you see the Superman load and that's the chase.
And I think it exists.
I think over time, technicians get jaded, they get burnt out.
Maybe they've sat in classes that they felt were sales pitches.
I mean, we don't maybe sometimes we're not doing a good job
vetting what we're putting our technicians to as well.
I think there's a lot of layers to it.
It is definitely an onion that's got to keep getting peeled back.
I think you're starting to see the shift.
I think you're starting to see more owners commit.
I mean, I know I get a lot more phone calls now than ever about coming in
and doing in-house training versus going to the big events because of what it costs
to bring their guys.
So they want to bring the technical trainers into the shops and do in-house stuff.
One flight in versus sending four or five people out.
I get all that.
I asked Keith about that today and I'm a very big proponent of, if you will,
in-shop training, localized training.
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Do you find that when someone books you, they reach out to their network to
help reduce the costs?
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
You know, how's that working?
I've done maybe a half a dozen or so far, but it seems to work really well.
The other thing I usually try to do is, you know, I'll get involved in some
sort of charity event.
So Sherwood with royalty, you know, he was trying to help out a client,
get them a new car.
I made an offer.
Hey, whoever's the highest bidder shop owner that does this, I will come to
your place, train for free on my dime.
And unfortunately, we had to reschedule the one and we're still working on the
other, but you figure they put up some money.
They put up thousands of dollars to help this cause out.
It's paying it forward.
It goes back to that whole, if not me, who thing.
Maybe this changes their perspective.
They bring me in.
I do, you know, a day of hands-on intensive training of where they're
struggling that maybe I'm decent at, I can help them.
Well, they see this works.
And now they're reaching out to Brandon Stechler.
They're reaching out to Keith.
They're reaching out to whoever to bring them in to figure out what they're
teaching that's going to produce the best results for them in house.
I do think it's the way to go getting other shops involved is huge.
And the cost isn't nearly as much as it is sending them to a vision.
And I'm not taken away from these events.
This is an amazing.
I totally agree.
I think there's a combination of all kinds of training that we need to have,
be it leader led, be it conferences, be it in house and video and lunch and learns.
It's not just one thing to accumulate your 40, 50, 60 hours.
And I love that the minimum is 40 and we pay bonus on the above.
Yeah.
And like in our shop, I pay my guys for every minute they are in any type of training
that goes towards their pay at the end of the week.
I will pay them for every amount of training that they do.
You mentioned a favorite player on the Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan.
Tell us about that.
You mentioned in class is great quote.
Yeah.
So, you know, being a Chicago kid, you know, I grew up in the nineties
and I remember Michael Jordan, I think it was for Nike.
He had a commercial where he talks about success and, you know, I'm kind of paraphrasing here,
but he says that the only reason he succeeds is because he allowed himself to fail.
The only reason I succeed is because I fail.
Well, that really coincides to what we do.
I mean, we go through the school of hard knocks.
We learn by mistakes.
You know, I state this at the beginning of every class I teach
because I was the student in these classes watching the Ken Zanders
and the John Thornton, Scott Manners and like it would kind of become demoralizing
a little bit and let me be clear on this extremely intelligent people here.
But you would see them and you would see what they do and you're like,
how did you get there?
Because I don't feel we've ever shared that it was mistakes that got us to that point.
So I always feel now for me, I always make sure everybody knows we made mistakes.
We're standing on a pile of manure to get to success.
And as long as we understand that we failed and because we failed,
we allow ourselves to succeed.
It's a great point, the manure.
When I was way deep in it, it smelled pretty bad.
But now I'm on top of the pile and I respect its smell.
You're going to fall back in it once in a while.
Every once in a while, I know.
You also said this knowing good so you know bad.
God, that was just brilliant.
Yeah, I mean, again, I'm big on sports and sports analogies, you know.
And again, Michael Jordan fans, it was hard for me to get behind Kobe Bryant.
It kind of goes back to I watched an interview after Kobe's passing
that he talked about and it was him and Michael, I believe, together.
And they talked about they practiced harder than what they played in the game.
Because if they practiced harder, the game became easy to them.
Well, it's the same concept, you know, getting those knowing goods on the easy stuff
or even the hard stuff and having reference later makes your life so much easier.
Collecting that data, the argument always is I don't have time for it.
Well, we're talking data.
I can click screen record or record data on a stamp on tool, save it,
put it away to my cloud later, take that vehicle on a test drive
that I take every vehicle on.
And now when I got a car that I'm not familiar with or I'm like,
oh, that doesn't quite look right to me.
I've got reference to go back to.
I practiced harder than I'm getting ready to play the game.
It's the same concept.
So you're the pre-scan king self-proclaimed.
But yeah, pre-scan king.
Yeah, again, just covering yourself, you know, the pre and post scans.
I don't think we press it enough.
It prepares us.
It allows us to set our clients up for success, too.
If we see case in this class, we're talking monitors.
If I see a bunch of monitors that aren't set on a car, I need my client to understand
there's a possibility maybe they were suspended
because of the problem we're dealing with.
But as they're now going through and completing, other codes can arise.
It goes back to a Tracy was talking about communication.
We set them up with proper communication on the front end to prevent
comebacks or an ever since you type concern on the back end.
It's just preparing yourself for that.
Do enough specialists use a systematic approach?
I don't think so.
And I hear it all the time, you know, I got a lot of people that take my classes
that been in them for a couple of years now.
And they're like, all's you talk about is process, process, process.
Well, yes, the shop is built around process or a good running shop is built around SOPs.
Yes. Why are we not incorporating those into our service bay?
The process is never going to fail you if you've built it correctly and adapted it over time.
You will fail it when you go rogue.
So if you have a process built out for any type of situation you run into,
I feel you build yourself up for success.
You stick with a systematic game plan.
You don't go rogue on it.
I feel it sets you up for continued success.
So problem vehicle comes in.
I'm going to jump in on it.
I'm the diet guy.
Should I approach every problem in my head?
Is I am creating a case study?
Yes and no, I do that this way.
I might not turn it into a case study, but at the end of the day, you keep it the same.
Right. So what I mean by that is every car that comes in in my shop for me
with a check engine light on the initial inspection process is exactly the same
until I pull the codes.
So let's say I pull a misfire code and that's the client's concern.
They've got a runability problem.
It seems like it's not running right, bucking going down the road.
My misfire process after my initial intake
analysis is the same all the time.
And as long as I don't deviate from it, I feel I can get through that process
quicker than I could just start testing things all over the place.
And I know you guys are good friends with Justin Morgan.
Justin Morgan, a few years ago, I sat in one of his classes
and from a flat rate perspective, he said, we sell our souls six minutes at a time.
And I love that.
Like he said that I've used that line.
I give him credit every time, but I've used that line ever since because he's correct.
So if we're set up, right, we're selling our souls six minutes at a time.
Every tent is worth something.
Yeah, if I can be more systematic getting through it, I'm more efficient for the shop.
Maybe I am in a flat rate situation.
I'm more efficient for myself.
Again, I'm setting myself up for success in the shop.
The whole systematic thing goes to what you talked about,
the detective mind mapping.
And when I've been listening to you this morning and you're saying that,
I recently wrote a blog about forensics.
And my thought is if you've ever watched a forensic files or any one of those types
of shows and you look at how they approach this immediate crime scene
and how they look in deep, then they back out and they collect all this evidence.
This whole mind mapping, please explain it to us, seems like.
And maybe what we need to do is to change our approach as a diagnostician.
Says, I'm going to do forensics on this car.
Well, we are. And I wish I could take credit for this.
I got to give credit where credit is due.
My good friend, Hock and Light, when we first met, he started talking about mind maps.
And, you know, he explained the whole process of the way he does things.
Right. And it made sense.
And I think of it like this.
Like you said, you watch forensic shows, you know, married.
My wife is always watching some detective show.
Pretty sure she's plotting my death at this point, but.
And she's not going to get caught.
She's not, you know, before.
Now, listen, we're going to go back to this episode.
We're going to listen to it.
Yeah, you know, with four kids at home and her raising a fifth and me.
And she's a school teacher, too. I get it, right.
But I remember walking in after talking with Hock in one day
and she's watching, I think it was like CSI or something along those lines.
And I watched them on the bulletin board and they've got the crime scene
and they've got pins and strings and pictures and pictures running to different probabilities.
Well, I now do that at the shop.
And, you know, there's they got you buy a book on Amazon
that has mind maps already prebuilt into it and you just write them in.
But I will mind map on a whiteboard what my problem is and write out.
I'll link it to the probabilities.
Is it fuel as ignition?
Is it whatever?
And then the other things that could cause that problem related to that system
and very systematically with data acquisition,
I will go through and starts picking out what it can't be.
Another guy I respect the heck out of Mr.
Jim Morton, the funneling effect.
I want to funnel that car as quickly as possible
to come up with my conclusion as fast as possible,
or at least the system that is causing that and I can narrow my attention to it.
And putting it on the whiteboard, you know, running the shop all day,
I'm pulled off stuff all the time, you know, client relations,
technician needs another set of eyes, whatever.
So by writing it out, I don't lose where I was at.
And that's a big thing for me, too, because, you know,
you get in the middle of something and maybe an emergency happens
or another car rolls in.
I know exactly where I was at because it's either on the whiteboard
or I keep little Amazon whiteboards with the cars.
Tell us more about those little whiteboards on.
Don't turn the car on. I love that concept.
Yeah. Yes.
I've been doing that, gosh, probably a good 10, 15 years now.
It started with don't start because there's no oil in it.
But you put that little mini whiteboard on the dash
right there. So if anyone gets in and thinks that, oh, let's go move this car.
Yeah. Don't start. That's the rule.
Yep. Or, you know, cars partially apart because we did some testing.
We're waiting on further approvals.
That way, when it goes through our quality control process,
my QC person that jumps in, it sees that whiteboard on there and knows,
hey, we got to grab the technician, something's still a part,
but maybe the client declined the repairs or has to bring it back later.
We don't have a situation where we look like fools.
You're right.
We make sure that vehicle is completely ready to go back to the client.
And that's key.
Andrew, do you know the stat of the amount of time
it takes to restart something when you're pulled away?
You're into something pretty deep, Andrew.
I know for me, I'm starting from scratch almost every time.
Every time. But if you didn't have the whiteboard
and you didn't have some mind mapping, maybe you're using different
color pens or ink, if that discipline allows you to know where you've been,
maybe even something down here, there's no string attached to an idea.
But you thought of it and you want to get to it.
And instead of losing that fleeting moment in your mind,
I don't know about you, but the older you get. Oh, yeah.
You know, I forgot what I had for lunch and it was just 20 minutes ago.
Yeah. And I just told them out there, I'm Dory. I'm a goldfish.
I forget things in five minutes.
That's part of the reason I do this, but it's such a time saver.
I love it. It's key.
You know, we try to push it with our technicians in the shop.
I try sharing it with everybody that's willing to listen.
It's a great resource.
How do you learn deductive reasoning?
Through the school hard docs.
I think technicians by nature, people that get into this career path,
really, they have, right?
And you don't get into this, in my opinion, just by chance.
There's something that drove you.
And I think it's one of those things you're kind of born with.
You either have it or you don't.
I don't think deductive reasoning is something you're able to teach.
And now there's some that'll argue with me on that.
And that's completely fine.
But from my standpoint, you either have it or you don't.
Like, I'm sure you've talked to people and you're like, wow,
they have a really great mindset of peace and puzzles together.
And again, you either have it or you don't.
That's why there's some that flourish really good with drivability.
And there's some that just flourish really well with, you know,
hanging suspension parts and there's not rugged.
And shouldn't we, as owners,
take a look at the talent that we have
and get him into the right chair, the right role?
That's the biggest issue.
We talk about this as technical trainers all the time.
Like, you know what the hardest part of writing a class is?
Who your audience is?
The title. Oh, OK.
Yes, basic electric.
I got that.
And so give us your slit on changing the name so people will come.
So I don't do that.
I'm not knocking.
I know Keith has done that.
Yeah, it's worked out really well.
Like, I don't do that because but what I do do is if anybody is willing to listen,
I always tell them, I really like focusing on foundational stuff.
OK, because in my opinion, the technical phone calls,
the cars that come in from other shops, heck, even a lot of times,
case studies you see in classes, it's really foundational.
It was an oversight, a simplistic oversight.
So I always tell everybody, like, what happens, I believe, again,
this kind of goes back to ego.
If it doesn't say advanced in the title, they don't want to sit through it.
Right. Well, we got to get past that.
I mean, I'm willing to take any class that says basic anything
because I know I'm most likely and I've never had it not happen.
I'm going to learn something.
I'm going to get one thing bare minimum from it that's going to improve me,
whether it says basic in the title or not.
But it's the hardest part, in my opinion, of writing a class
because you're asking yourself, I'm writing this because I struggled with it
or it's something I'm super interested in.
And I want people to reduce the pain points
they're dealing with because of the pain points I had, right?
And a lot of times it's basics.
And I want them to be able to sit in it.
But if I call it like I've got a class, foundational, foundational,
mechanical conditioning through World Pack, we have to change my title up on it
to put people in the seats because if I kept it foundational,
which I run it personally through my own company as foundational,
but they know in order to put people in the seats, we got to change the title.
They wanted a sexier title. Yes.
So let me ask you this next question.
How often should I, as a mechanical specialist,
a technology specialist in the shop, no matter what it is that my specialty is,
what I love to do, should I every two years at least get to a class
to see what's special, what's new to verify
that my learning curve continues to be strong every couple of years?
I say once a quarter if you can.
I'm being honest, like everybody's different, right?
Every market's a little bit different.
But what I see a lot of it's not this crazy case study
that you've only seen once every six years.
It's always comes back to a foundational aspect.
And let's be honest, we learn so much through our careers.
We forget some of the foundations.
So I'm a big believer, especially if you're doing like online training,
you're doing it through NAPA, you're doing it through CarQuest,
whoever you're doing it through, if they offer something foundational,
I feel once a quarter, your butt should be parked in a seat going back over the basics.
Go back. And don't be personally, don't be bored.
Don't say I could have taught that class because something,
you're going to pick up something.
That's the thing. We hear this all the time.
Oh, it's so easy. I could have taught it.
Well, why aren't you?
And I'm going to tell you why you're not because you don't understand it.
You think you do.
And I don't mean that being harsh, I guess maybe I do.
But you're not the one up there teaching it
because you don't truly understand it.
You think you do.
Matt talks about all the time, the Dunning-Kruger effect.
You think you know about it, but you truly don't.
And that's why you're not the one up there.
And again, you're going to take something away
as long as you go into it with an open mindset to, you know, I tell everybody,
when I pull up, I've gotten to the point now,
I don't tell them on my quote unquote advanced classes,
what type of car we're dealing with.
So when I do mechanical class, like mechanical conditioning,
cylinder pressure analysis, I don't tell them up front
what vehicle they're working on because you're always going to get the guy
in the background, guy or girl in the background going,
oh, it's a three six Chrysler, it's always this.
That's not what this is about.
It's about building that process to get you to be able to identify this
no matter what vehicle it is.
Maybe this is the only one that was broke in my shop that day
that I was able to grab some data on.
But that's what happens.
You don't want people to stand up and go,
I already know what's wrong with it
because this is always a problem I see.
And that happens so frequently in classes.
It honestly, again, from a training aspect,
it's disheartening for me when that happens.
I can listen to you talk about this stuff for hours.
It was the first class I attended.
I wasn't there 100% of the time
because we were in here doing some interviewing.
But when I was out there, it was so genuine,
so easy to listen to and you're a humble guy.
And I know you've been on Mad Show.
I call Matt and I says I'm interviewing Andrew Fisher
and he goes, you lucky guy.
So thanks for being here.
I have to flip on 50 bucks for that one.
Yeah, I know.
Andrew Fisher, shop manager, industry trainer
out from Northwest Indiana.
And you're here at the TST Big Event doing a training thing.
Thanks for coming to the studio and giving us your insights.
Thank you guys.
I mean, thank you for the kind words.
You know, it's not I'm sure if you guys are watching this,
you see my face.
It's hard to take stuff like that.
So I really do appreciate it.
One of the most humble guys in the industry.
Thanks, man.
Thank you.
Thanks for being on board to listen and learn
from the Premier Automotive Repair Business Podcast,
Remarkable Results Radio.
Get your episodic education on the ARPN listening app
at automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com.
Also enjoy the podcast on our Carm Capriado YouTube channel.
Carm is all for advancing the professional automotive service industry.
Until next time.
About this episode
Andrew Fisher breaks down a forensic, process-driven approach to automotive diagnostics, using mind mapping, pre- and post-scans, and disciplined data collection to narrow problems faster. He and Carm also dig into the bigger issue behind the technician shortage: shops that don’t invest in training. Fisher argues for at least 40 hours a year, more if possible, plus in-house learning, lunch-and-learns, and foundational refreshers. He shares personal stories about mentor Ken, learning from mistakes, and why humility and specialization matter in a high-tech industry.
Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACSWatch Full Video Episode
Recorded live at the TST Big Event 2026, host Carm Capriotto sits down with Andrew Fischer, shop manager at Cergizan's Auto and Truck Repair in Northwest Indiana, and an industry trainer. Andrew shares his disciplined, process-driven approach to diagnostics, his passion for technician development, and why shop culture plays a defining role in long-term success. From daily habits to big-picture philosophy, this conversation is a roadmap for building more confident, capable technicians.
What You’ll Learn:
Why committing to at least 40 hours of continuous education each year can dramatically reduce comebacks and improve shop performance
How to build learning into daily routines: whether through short practice sessions, webinars, or online training resources
The power of Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) and why “going rogue” in diagnostics leads to inefficiency
How Andrew’s “detective mind mapping” technique helps technicians visually organize problems and accelerate accurate diagnoses
Why revisiting foundational knowledge is critical and how ego often prevents technicians from mastering the basics
How embracing failure strengthens diagnostic ability and builds real-world expertise
The importance of capturing and studying “known good” vehicle data to improve accuracy on future repairs
Great diagnostics is about discipline, process, and constant learning. Shops that invest in their people, reinforce foundational skills, and create a culture where failure fuels growth will not only solve problems faster but build stronger, more resilient teams.
Fischer Automotive Consulting and Training Services: [email protected]
Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS
Learn more about NAPA Auto Care and the benefits of being part of the NAPA family by visiting https://www.napaonline.com/en/auto-care
NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/Connect with the Podcast:
