“Born” doesn’t clearly match a specific car model or brand. It might be a reference to a movie or character instead of a real vehicle. If you tell me the exact car name you mean, I can explain what it is in simple terms.
A street course is a race track made from regular city streets. The race uses temporary barriers and markings, so it can feel tighter and bumpier than a normal racetrack.
Short shifting is when you shift to the next gear sooner than usual. If the track is really bumpy, it can help the car stay more stable and keep the tires gripping.
Bumpy means the track surface isn’t smooth. The car bounces around, and that can make it harder to accelerate and stay planted, especially in the slower corners.
Concept
elapsed
“Elapsed” means measured time that has passed during the race. Teams use it to decide when to pit and change tires. It helps them plan around timing and race conditions, not just lap count.
“Red tire” is a nickname for one of the race tire types. Different tire types heat up and wear out differently, so teams plan when to use them. Here, they’re saying the red tire didn’t behave the way they expected.
“Primary” means the main tire the car uses first. Teams watch how quickly it wears out and loses grip. If it starts to fall off, they switch to the other tire type to stay competitive.
In a race, pit lane is the special area where teams bring the car in to make changes. That’s where they can swap tires and add fuel. How long you’re in pit lane can make you gain or lose positions.
In racing tire strategy, the “alternate” refers to the secondary tire compound used after the primary stint. Teams choose it based on expected grip and how quickly it degrades over time. Switching to the alternate is often a way to manage tire wear and maintain pace.
A red flag means the race is stopped for safety, usually because of a crash or debris. It can mess up timing and strategy because teams can’t keep running normally.
Firestone supplies the racing tires, and they can change the tire’s makeup. If the alternate tire is harder and tougher, it can last longer and be easier to use as part of a race plan.
A “stint” is how long you stay out on the same set of tires. Doing a “full stint” means you’re trying to use the tires for the whole planned stretch before you pit.
A “caution” is when the race slows down due to something on track. It can change tire strategy because the timing of pit stops and restarts affects how long tires need to last.
A “restart” is when the race starts moving fast again after a slow-down period. The first laps after that can feel different, so teams try to time their tire choice for those moments.
A harder tire is built to wear more slowly. That usually means you can drive longer before you have to pit.
Term
blacks
"Blacks" is a nickname for one of the tire types used in the race. The team decides when to switch to that tire based on how long it lasts and how well it grips.
An overcut means you delay your pit stop to keep track position. If your tires still work well, you can come out ahead of someone who pitted before you.
An escape road is a safe area next to the track where a driver can go if something goes wrong. It helps avoid crashes, even though it usually drops you back in the field.
"Reds" is the name for one of the tire types used in the race. They’re talking about whether those tires can last long enough without losing too much grip.
In racing, pit close lights are signals that tell you the pit lane is about to close. If you miss the timing, you can’t safely enter the pits, so you have to plan your approach carefully.
Turn eight is just the name of a particular corner on the track. Saying “exit turn eight” helps everyone know exactly where the driver was when the pit-lane timing signals mattered.
PLC here refers to a pit-lane control button used to trigger the car’s pit-speed/limiter behavior. The driver presses it at the correct moment so the car automatically manages speed for the pit lane, and the pit close lights changing state right after indicates how tightly controlled the timing is.
Pit speed is the speed limit you must follow in the pit lane. Drivers try to enter at the right moment and speed so they stay within the rules and don’t get penalized.
In racing, “earning a penalty” means the race officials determined you violated a rule (often track limits, pit-lane entry/exit rules, or causing an unsafe situation). The penalty is the consequence applied to your race result, such as time penalties or drive-through/stop-and-go penalties.
An attenuator is a safety barrier that’s meant to slow a crash down and reduce the force on the car and driver. If you hit it, it usually means you didn’t stop or turn where you needed to.
It’s a painted/marked line that drivers must follow to decide when they’re officially starting their pit stop entry. If you don’t make it correctly, you can get penalized because it affects safety and traffic flow.
Place
NDP
NDP sounds like a shorthand for a specific race track the hosts are talking about. In this moment, they’re saying the pit entry rules there feel unreasonable, especially around where you can rejoin after going off-track.
They’re talking about cutting through the grass to get back onto the track. Some racing rules treat that as breaking track limits, so the point here is that it feels like the rules don’t match the penalty severity.
“Dead stick” means the car is unable to run under its own power—typically stalled or shut down—and is effectively not moving. In racing, it’s a key indicator that an incident may require a caution to manage safety.
“Turn three” is a particular corner on the track. They’re saying the corner’s width changes how serious a spin looks and how fast officials can decide what to do.
Road America is a road course in the U.S. known for longer corners and more run-off than many street circuits. The host uses it as a comparison to explain why a restart after an off-track incident might be less risky there.
In some races, if you break a rule, you may get a “drive-through” penalty. That means you have to go through the pit lane and keep moving, which makes you lose time. It’s a way to punish you without making you stop for repairs.
“Serve it right away” refers to the requirement to complete a penalty immediately rather than waiting for a more convenient moment. In race strategy, the timing matters because serving too late can cost more positions, while serving earlier can minimize the net impact.
A time penalty is a rule that makes you lose time in the race because of an infraction. Sometimes you have to serve it during the race (like going through the pit lane), and other times it’s added to your final race time. Either way, it affects your finishing position.
A pit stop is when the car pulls into the pit lane during the race to get serviced, usually for tires. Teams time it carefully because it can make you gain or lose track position. The timing is a big part of race strategy.
A “crossover” is when two cars end up in the same part of the track at the same time. If one driver doesn’t expect the other to be there, they can collide.
Downforce is the force from the car’s shape that presses it down onto the track. It helps the tires grip, but too much can make it harder to pass other cars because everyone can stay fast in the same lane.
Track temperature changes how well the tires grip. If the track is cooler, the tires may not work as well right away, which can affect speed and passing.
“Run flat” means you can keep the gas pedal down without backing off. If everyone can do that on the bottom lane, it’s harder for faster cars to get around someone on the top lane.
This means how much faster the best cars are than the slower ones. If the cars are too similar in speed, it’s harder to pass because there’s no big performance gap to exploit.
A “train” is when cars line up behind each other and don’t really change position. It usually happens when passing is hard and everyone keeps roughly the same speed.
That’s the time difference between cars—how close they are. If it’s only a small, consistent gap, it usually means cars can’t pass easily and the order stays the same.
Gateway is another oval track where races are held. They’re saying that at Gateway, when downforce is high, cars can end up stuck in a line because passing is tough.
“Boost” is extra pressure from a turbo that helps the engine make more power. “Low boost” means they’re running less of that turbo pressure, so the car may feel less punchy but can be easier to control.
The wing angle is basically how “tilted” the spoiler is. Tilting it more usually makes it push the car harder onto the track, but it can also slow the car down because it creates more air resistance.
“Phoenix” is the earlier race location they’re referencing. The point is that the teams are using the same kind of setup they used there as a starting point.
Worldwide Technology Raceway is a specific race track in the U.S. They’re comparing it to another circuit to estimate how the car will behave and what setup will work best.
Term
super gripped up
“Super gripped up” means the tires are getting a lot of traction. When that happens, the car can turn in harder and feel more stable in corners.
LIVE
This is Off-Track.
Hello and welcome to Off-Track with Hinch and Rossi.
Guys, paradigm shift happening here at the show.
Paradigm shift.
We're all here.
No, I was going to say this will be our last week of recording.
We are shutting down the show.
The scheduling got too much, but we appreciate all the hard work
and all the listeners who paid attention.
It's a joke.
April Fools.
Alex, what are you eating?
I don't know what that is.
Oh, tortilla chips.
Oh, I can do that.
I got tortilla chips just on the other side of that door.
Got a lovely tortilla chip.
Thanks, guys.
Whatever, you've got so much time to edit this episode.
Oh, no, you don't.
No, you don't because the actual paradigm shift is that we're just going to start
doing our recaps on Tuesdays and then our Tuesday show, sometimes on Wednesdays,
sometimes on Thursdays.
But we're not going to make you wait till Thursday to hear what Alex has to say
about an IndyCar race because we know
we know you're all super excited to get the updates as soon as possible.
Are you cleaning your camera?
Yeah.
No, OK.
You all good?
No.
You look much clearer.
He's squeaking.
He's munching.
He's gone.
This is this is already very off off track.
Whatever. What do you want?
What do you want from me right now?
I don't know. How's your how's your day going?
OK, how did yesterday go?
OK, how was Sunday?
Hot.
Was it hot?
Not from the climate.
How'd you catch on fire again?
Yeah. Yeah.
What's the deal with just a little bit that time, right?
It was more than you think.
It was enough.
Yeah, it was enough that there was.
Yeah, there was noticeable flames and it's funny.
So we had our production call.
We had our Fox pre gateway production call today and it came up how often you're on fire.
But then it also came up that it's not even just a you think like Christian
caught on fire, I think, at Gateway last year
from from fuel and stuff.
So I guess the question is, are you guys like cheating with your fuel flow or?
No.
Oh, so you're not even getting the benefit of that for all the fire you're causing.
Correct. Got it. Cool.
All right. I wish we were.
Don't you?
OK, we're going to get. Yeah. OK.
I have a question that I want you guys philosophical opinion on.
And I don't know why this.
Tim, I forget if you're the one that said this or if it was somebody else,
but it was a really good question.
When probably somebody else.
When when does a murder become an assassination?
Oh, no, this was me.
Yeah, that's be planned, right?
I think it's just for the importance of the person.
Right. But if you just plan to murder your neighbor,
I feel like that's still an assassination.
But why? It's never called that.
It's never called first degree assassination.
It's called first degree murder, which is planned and got a political thing.
No, it doesn't. It doesn't at all.
Dude, no, it's like assassins and movies.
Jason Bourne. Yeah, exactly.
John Wick. He assassinates everybody.
Right. No, what does he do?
No assassination, dude.
An assassination is falls under the category first degree murder.
There's no difference. Does it?
Tomatoes, motto.
But yeah, but like there seems to be a very certain
situation in which that term is used and it does tend to
trend towards like higher profile individuals.
Because I think there's this thing was like if somebody plans to kill Tim,
it wouldn't be an assassination.
It would just be a good old fashioned murder.
Not if I'd be kind of good at not putting that out into the universe.
No, but this is this how the conversation started.
You were like, if I got murdered, it wouldn't be an assassination.
And that's sad. That's true.
Yeah, that's true.
I think I disagree that that it's that there's not the component of the victim.
I think it's got to be somebody of importance.
Oh, I'm going to I agree with you that that's how it's been.
But I agree with Alex that that's not how it should be.
And so I'm going to put it.
I'm just going to start referring to every first degree murder charges and assassination.
Wait, wait.
Hey, he's got a point.
Money, exchange in hands.
Does that happen?
No, that's well, no, because then like was John Wilkes Booth paid to assassinate Lincoln?
According to Marion Webster,
assassinations are murder by sudden or secret attack, often for political reasons.
The act or an instance of assassinating someone such as a prominent political leader.
OK.
Whereas murder,
I'd say it's an impromptu.
Prominently, it doesn't say it exclusively.
That's true. That's true.
But like, I don't know, because if you plan it beforehand,
that just means first degree murder.
Like that movie with that bends the bullets.
Oh, OK.
Angelina Jolie.
Angelina Jolie.
Was that was a wanted?
Was that what that movie was?
It was wanted.
Yeah, there you go.
So like they were all like trained assassins following the quilt.
And so those weren't just murderers,
but they were also just killing people that were bad people that need to be killed.
So they were assassins.
I wonder, I wonder also if it's like the multitude of which you are killing for money.
Like it's just one murder for money, a murderer.
And then if you're like, you're at six, it's not a serial murderer.
It's you're just an assassin.
But that's John Wilkes Booth.
Again, he only did the one, but is considered an assassin.
John Wilkes Booth couldn't bend bullets.
You don't know that.
Didn't we just say this episode was going to be about Detroit?
I don't think we actually got to that.
I feel like all of these things come back to Lincoln.
Doesn't everything?
All roads lead to Lincoln, usually.
It's just six to six degrees of Abraham Lincoln.
Can we use any of this?
You're the editor.
You tell me, this is neither here nor there.
This was just a thought that that came to Tim.
And I thought it was a really valid question.
I guess, I guess Hollywood has one answer.
And, you know, the rest of the world might have another leading into that.
I would like to stress that whether it be murder or assassination,
don't do it to me or I feel like James put that out there.
I wasn't I wasn't like an RFP like calm down.
I wasn't I wasn't shopping around for a hitman.
It seemed that's how I took it.
How did you take it, Alex?
So what's the difference between a hitman and an assassin?
Is there one?
No, it's a hitman, a murderer, great.
And a assassin does the assassinating.
All assassins are murderers, but not all murderers are assassins.
Here we go.
This is like the whiskey bourbon discussion.
Bring it back to Lincoln.
A hitman means money exchanged hands and whose face is on money?
Abraham Lincoln really does really.
It goes back to him.
But he really just he laid the groundwork for the whole thing.
He laid a lot of groundwork.
There's so much other stuff that he would probably rather be known for.
Maybe not theater aficionado.
That didn't go great for him.
You know, the complete irony is didn't even really like to play.
It was just, you know, it was it was an appearance he had to make.
It was it was a forced thing.
Didn't even want to be there.
OK, newspaper guy.
It's been weird.
Detroit happened the week after Indy, unfortunately.
Let's talk about that because there was a lot of noise.
Admittedly, I didn't read any of it, but I saw the headlines of drivers
being like, we need there needs to be a week off after Indy before Detroit.
Not for us, per se, but for the crews.
Yeah, thoughts on that.
Couldn't agree more.
I remember I got a text message from one of my old crew guys on Monday
after the 500, he was in the shop doing something and he sent me an unrelated text
and he took a picture and he was in the race shop.
And I'm like, you guys don't even get Monday off.
It's like, dude, we're turning these cars around, go to Detroit, come back,
turn those cars around to go to St.
Louis, have an 8 p.m. Sunday night race in St.
Louis, drive back after the race.
You've got to be in the shop the next day to turn the cars around for it.
Oh, no, sorry.
They don't go to the shop.
They go straight to a racetrack to go test.
And like it is after being in the track every day for three straight weeks
in in May, it's it's savage and inhumane.
I get why we do it from a commercial standpoint, but I do think there's a
human toll and like you talk to all the teams and like they're beat, man.
I mean, you would I feel like you weren't going to agree with me on this point.
But I'm curious how you and your team feel about it.
Oh, no, I agree wholeheartedly.
OK, no, I just I didn't know from from the Fox side or whatever,
if there was like reasoning, because let's be honest,
it's not like we go from Indy to Milwaukee or Indy to Gateway.
Like we go from Indy, which is, you know, one of the most incredible
racetracks on the planet with the biggest event in the world to potentially
one of the racetracks on the planet.
So like it's it's not even like you can argue, oh, we want to really,
you know, capture and lock in all these new viewers because anyone that goes
from Indy, the tuned in and saw like the best in the 500 ever and then watch
Detroit would have been like, oh, yeah, no, I'm good.
That was a pretty entertaining race, if I'm being honest.
I think there should be a gap, but I did.
I was entertained. Interesting.
Yeah. Put put a pin in that, Tim, because we're going to get to that,
because that's a great point.
But to Alex, to your point, that was my personal opinion from the Fox side.
They are 100 percent on board with having a race the next week for that exact reason.
If anybody does tune in to the 500 as a first time viewer of an Indy car race,
saw the most bang and finish in history, hey, let's check this out next week.
If it was two weeks down the road,
I guess there's enough data to show that it does in fact.
Effect ratings, it does affect retention.
So there is a commercial reason.
There's also enough data to show that people,
especially a new audience, are going to prefer a short oval night race
than they are going to watch a street course that's going to be won by the same guy.
So well, that's your fault.
I think that really it's not this time.
So. OK, I'm going to pass on some information
that I was told, do with it what you will.
I am just a messenger on this particular point.
If we were to do Milwaukee the week after Indy,
if we were to stick to having a week off or a week of race a week after Indy
and went back to the traditional venue, which for a long, long time was Milwaukee,
which I agree with you, carries a little bit more of a, you know,
a higher chance of an exciting race, especially with the current package.
Then Detroit couldn't happen as it does currently.
There are reasons that even a single week delay in the calendar,
specifically for Detroit and the venue we're at, you could not hold the race.
We can't do it any earlier.
Maybe there's a way to do it like way later.
But I was told by a very by
not a guy, the guy that would know that one week delay would severely hurt the race.
Well, we'll use a code name.
I was told by
also the guy that the reason that idea exists
is because people will be traveling for summer.
Correct. That was yes.
That was the sort of time of the same guy.
Where are you going?
Like Michigan has some of the most beautiful places to be in.
I understand I would get the out of Detroit the second I have the opportunity
and go you're not going for weeks.
You might go for a weekend.
Yeah, yeah, I think if you're going to Florida,
you're going for five days.
His point was you're not going to like your summer home in Arizona.
The his point was school is in this week and then it's out next week.
And so as soon as people aren't in school,
they've got more freedom to leave and and go spend weekends at the lake house.
And so there's more likely, I guess they talked about
sweet sales would be way down because all the executives would have the kids
and be off in in, you know, their lake homes or, you know, on vacation places
for the weekend. OK, OK.
So so it's but there's another answer here.
Just don't go to Detroit.
No, because that's understandable.
It's a big race commercially important for Chevy.
So that is why I can't be Milwaukee.
Yeah, that's why I can't be Milwaukee the week after.
Well, so what we need to do is appeal to the state of Michigan
to keep kids in school for one week longer or
just make the current Detroit track less.
Let's talk about it.
So Detroit, one point 65 mile, shortest track on the calendar, nine turns.
I remember when we first went there, Alex,
everybody looked at the track map on a piece of paper and were like, wow,
that's overwhelmingly simple.
But year one, it raced pretty well.
And a lot of drivers, I think you included, said it's actually in the once
you got to the race is like, yeah, some rubber got down and had a kind of nice
flow to it. It was fairly raceable, bumpy as hell, but not the worst.
Fast forward to 2026, fourth edition of the race.
How did we feel about the Detroit circuit?
I don't know that I ever was of the opinion that like it got OK.
I think I was of the opinion that
the chaos makes for some form of entertaining race.
But no, I don't know that there's anyone, even if you're a Kyle Kirkwood
or a, well, previously a Colton Hertha doesn't exist anymore.
But like, I don't know that anyone really well,
I don't know that anyone I don't know that I've talked to anyone that enjoys it,
quite frankly. All right.
So I don't know that that's true.
Have you? Is there anyone you talk to that's like, oh, this is actually
pretty nice. I want to say that, like, maybe it's a bad example.
I think Palo after the first year, he won, said that,
you know, in the race, it had an OK rhythm.
I want to say that I mean, I really feel like you said, like in the race,
it wasn't bad, not to say it was great, but that it wasn't bad.
Maybe I'm maybe I'm misspeaking.
And there was somebody that said that because I was surprised.
I was like, oh, OK, I mean, and it did put on a pretty entertaining race.
So I was like, maybe it's such a bad.
It definitely looks a lot better.
Like they've made they put a lot of effort into making the track in the
surrounding area, like the facilities look nice.
The pale lane is still pretty pretty bitching.
And the fact that that was the first place that we pulled that off.
And now it's like basically a staple at every street course that we go to.
It has allowed us to use areas of cities that we would previously
not have been able to use is kind of cool.
OK, so not the most enjoyable to drive understandable.
It's got one corner.
That's not first two corners that are not first year.
That's, you know, kind of says one.
Yeah, I mean, 67 you'd like short shift a second, right?
Only because it's so bumpy that you can't really use first,
but the speeds are a first gear corner. Right. Yes.
OK, so just walk us through the weekend.
Obviously, a bit of an extra challenge for you,
just because still recovering from Indy with the foot.
And it's a different challenge than driving on the speedway.
But in general, how was how was the car?
How was everything through practice?
I mean, it's hard.
I don't really know how to describe it.
And I don't want to spend too much time talking about it,
because ultimately it was my own doing that caused this.
So it is what it is.
But yeah, certainly took quite a bit to get used to.
I'll leave it at that.
I will say that, you know, this was one of my weaker tracks last year with ECR.
And so we came with a little bit different of a different approach.
And the car was in a much happier window and was a much nicer.
It was just everything was was a lot easier to get on top of, which was good.
It shows that kind of the offline stuff and everything we're doing
from a development standpoint is proceeding in a good direction.
Qualifying, you know, we Christian qualified ninth.
I qualified 14th, just kind of miss getting out of our group.
Our group was pretty tough for four of the guys in the fast six
came from group two.
So that's no excuse because the employee got to be everyone.
But it was it was just tough.
So we started 14th, but I was I was generally happy with the car.
I think we we didn't really maximize all of it and qualifying
for a couple of reasons.
But one of the things that seemed to be a bit of a talking point,
a bit of a trend on weekend was that the tires were taking a lot longer
to come come in, right?
It was I mean, it was it was pretty it was wild.
Kind of the different strategies that we saw, like usually, you know,
you'll have like on a lap like that, you can fit in elapsed, right?
So on a red tire that usually comes in fairly quickly, you know,
you'll do five and three if you feel for the session.
If you don't feel for the session, you'll do four on the on the primary,
come in, have a bit extra time in pit lane, add the fuel and go out
and do three laps on the alternate.
If you're struggling a little bit, you'll kind of do, you know, four and four
or three and three on the alternate and use two reds in round one to try and get out.
But what we saw here was, I mean, for example, the five car
did the entire session on the primary.
You had quite a few guys do like one lap on the primary or two laps on the primary
and then the rest of the session on the alternate.
You had some guys that did red red.
You had some guys that did red from start to finish.
So there was a lot of different approaches, which was very interesting
and a little bit surprising.
But on the same in that same vein, not that surprising,
because I think everyone came out of practice one a little surprised
with the way the red tire was performing.
It wasn't worth a big chunk of lap time and was taking a really long time
for it to come in and the grip level to come in and the lap time
to even match the harder primary tire.
So that was, I think, the reason we saw so many different strategies.
We on the 20 car went with a traditional kind of five and
no, we did four and four because we wanted the extra lap on the alternate
to kind of give you that if the temps were still coming up.
Unfortunately, most of the cars that beat us did it on their fifth lap
on the alternates and David had a little incident
and caused a red flag on what was our fifth lap.
But I don't know that that lap was going to be good enough.
Anyways, that being said, we just missed it by a little bit,
which is all it takes in IndyCar.
The reason for that difference is, you know, last year we talked a lot
about how Firestone had the alternate tire that was super soft
and people were jumping off of it right away.
Firestone changed that a little bit for this year,
made the tire harder, a little bit more robust.
Which especially now for street courses, considering you have to run
the two sets of alternates in the race,
it makes it that a little bit more feasible and a little bit more viable.
So and as you mentioned, it was also very cool compared to normal Detroit weather.
So all of those factors is kind of why you got what you got.
Which wasn't really that much different.
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Yeah, first of all, not a lot of high lateral load corners to put heat into tires.
So you got the harder, soft, you know, harder alternate tire.
And yeah, I was just taking a long time to come in, which it made it.
It made it it was interesting in the sense that with that two red tire rule.
Nobody really knew if the if the red was going to everyone kind of assumed
it would be fine. It would almost be the preferred tire
because it was a little bit quicker and because it took so long to come in,
it was going to easily last a stint.
It wasn't as easy by the race as some people thought.
It did get a little bit hotter for race day, I think.
It certainly felt hotter.
I didn't actually look at what actual track temps got up to.
But that's like 110.
OK, so comparable to qualifying.
Qualifying was kind of in that range.
Yeah.
But definitely doing a full stints, you know,
obviously a full fuel to start like a couple guys really struggle
to get the red to last for those last sort of fiveish laps.
If you're trying to, you know, just do it on on the two stops.
But then we had so much caution for various reasons, you know, it made it.
You wanted to run on the restart.
They were definitely a little bit better for those first sort of two,
maybe three laps, depending who you were.
But it did look like that the hard was better over the stint.
A couple of different drivers starting on a couple of different things.
So from the race standpoint, walk us through what strategy you guys went
with tire wise and how you found yourself up at the front.
And then ultimately how you found yourself less at the front.
Well, James, where I don't even.
Would you start on?
Start on the prime, start on the harder tire.
The reason for that is we knew how challenge.
Well, first of all, I wanted to end you want to handle the alternate.
And then it became a decision of, all right, when do you run your blacks?
And for me, it was like I'd rather have the opportunity under the pace lap
to get like three laps of temp in the tires instead of having to try
and do outlapse on them and racing people because the outlapse were were pretty sketchy.
So they were like three or four seconds off.
Like it was.
So that's that's why we went black, red, red.
So at the start, I was surrounded by a lot of guys on on the primary tire.
So I wasn't really under any threat.
So started 14th, did most of the first dent in like 12th, 11th ish
and came in for our first stop, was able to overcut one car,
caught on fire a little bit, a little bit was out in 10th.
Dickson started having his issues and went down an escape road.
So I got that spot.
So we were in ninth and we weren't a car that was really struggling
to make the the reds last, which is something that we've is really new
for us, quite frankly, and something that kind of came from Long Beach.
And so I was kind of racing Foster, Erickson in that group.
And we were much stronger end of stint than they were.
But unfortunately, when I was on fire, we didn't get all the fuel in the car
because it was, you know, on the ground, burning up on people.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that meant we couldn't go as long as we would have wanted to,
which almost worked a treat.
So the lap that we were out of fuel,
you know, I exited turn eight.
So there's there's two pit close lights.
There's a pit close light entering turn eight on the right hand side.
And then there's a pit close light like at on the attenuator.
Yeah.
And so I went through turn eight.
Pits were open and I was we looked at it this morning.
I was breaking to the line and engaged PLC
and one tenth of a second
after I hit the PLC button, the pit close lights came off.
Now, I quite frankly didn't see the pit close light
because I was looking at into the pit lane and at my pit speed
because you have your pit speed and you wait to goes below 40 miles an hour.
So you try and time it.
So you're crossing the line at 39 point nine.
And as I turned into pit lane, my dash lit up and it was yellow.
And for a split second, I was like, oh, hell yeah.
And then there was some confusion on the radio.
It happens fast, right?
Like.
You.
They they get an electronic notification that I entered a closed pit.
But the confusion was, well, it doesn't matter
because we don't have enough fuel to make it around anyways.
But there wasn't enough time to relay to the crew.
She did a full stop.
Don't do tires.
Right.
Because they couldn't tell me to drive through
because I wouldn't make it back anyway.
And this is happening in space like five seconds.
Right. So they couldn't tell me to drive through
because I wouldn't make it back.
So they knew I had to stop, but they couldn't call everyone off.
The tire change and the fill.
So when you enter in a closed pit, if you have to, for the reason
if you're going to run out of fuel, you can call an emergency service,
which is two seconds of fuel.
And you don't get a penalty. Yeah.
And you don't get a penalty.
You you get an inadvertent penalty by all the track position you lose.
But then you got to come back in and do your final drive through stop.
Right. Right.
So so you did the full stop, which then full stop.
Yes. Earned a penalty.
And so very frustrating through no, I don't blame anyone.
I don't blame any car.
Like it's a black and white rule at the timeline.
You either hit it or you don't just super unlucky.
Like it's I I I watched my on board and it's like, I don't even know
that if I had seen it, I could have cleared the attenuator.
Anyways, I don't know, which this it's it's tough.
This this brings up a point that I've had.
I've kind of taken an issue with at a couple tracks that we go to.
I feel like the pit commit line is way to be should be at a point
where if you don't make it, you can cut out, right?
Like, yeah, I think that line is inside the attenuator.
Right. So like I think to NDP, which I think it's absolutely insane
at places like NDP or like St. Pete, you can drive across the grass
from like the pit in area and get back onto the track.
The short oval, you can just drive back onto the racetrack.
Like absolutely insane to me, but whatever.
So like a place like NDP, I feel like the pit commit should be
at that point when you exit the racetrack and go on to that sort of pit lane.
Lane. Yeah.
And so that way, if you get the message, you can cut across the grass.
This has been brought up a bunch of times and there's no disagreement
from anyone in IndyCar, but the excuse which take it or leave it is
we would have to cut another timeline.
And so you're cutting up city streets and it's you're laying more wire
and all that sort of thing. So it's like, well, we can't.
Whereas on a permanent road course, you kind of have more freedom
because it's going to be there forever.
And it's not something you're going to have been removing.
They literally don't have it in EGP.
Yes, they do. No.
IndyGP should be when you, IndyGP, the pit commit line is behind a wall.
No, I think it's the line when you leave the racetrack.
No, I don't think so.
That's why Kirkwood bailed out when they thought that there you go.
It's closed when it wasn't. Yeah, that's dumb.
It is dumb. And like Middle High Barber.
It gets brought up in every driver's meeting and the excuse is always the same.
So I don't know. It is what it is.
Again, I'm not criticizing.
This was no harm, no foul.
That was a sidebar. Unfortunate. Yes.
Yeah. But while we're on the topic,
let's talk about the race and race control and yellow flags.
So obviously there was a lot that came out of my incident at the IndyGP
and all this sort of thing.
And now we are here.
So what do we think of where we are?
Well, this is where I thought Tim had a good point and let's go to the guy
that's not ever been directly affected by a pit opening or closing at a poor time.
Tim, sitting at home on the couch watching the race.
What did you think of the race?
I was entertained and I like that doesn't mean that I don't see the argument
that it can ruin a racer's race and things like that.
But that's part of the entertainment for me, if I'm watching,
like seeing everybody have to adapt to new strategies on the fly.
That's that's racing.
So I thought that's what we asked for was to have the yellows come out
when they need to come out.
So I was I was fine with it.
Alex, my we obviously went to a place where it's a little bit extreme anyway,
just because I mean, the last three years
that race has had five to eight caution periods.
Right. So here's here's where I'm at.
I Detroit is it a difficult one to judge because it's very tight.
It's very narrow confines.
If a car is stopped, I mean, it's hard enough to fit one car through there.
So I want to hold off like on any real judgment
until we get to the next road America, for example.
Yeah.
Because the biggest issue that everyone had out of NDGP was the driver,
the sitting in the car is exposed and we got to take driver safety more seriously.
Not that they don't take it seriously before,
but we can't put driver safety as a sidebar
to make sure the outcome of the race doesn't get affected.
And I think everyone up and down pit lane involved in this sport agrees with that.
What I think some people may be frustrated by coming out of Detroit
is some of the yellows were so fast that if a car just spun,
it wasn't even given an opportunity to like spin around,
flip a bitch, restart, whatever, and get going again.
NDGP, like my car ground to a halt.
Indie car race control can see that there's no power to the car.
They can see there's no attempt to restart.
Marcus Erickson and Laguna, same sort of situation.
So that car is dead stick, right?
So that car is not going anywhere.
So yeah, a yellow needs to be thrown.
If a car is spun in turn three, for example, which is a fairly wide corner
and two seconds hasn't even elapsed for them to even see if they get going.
Should that be a yellow? I don't know. Maybe.
But my point is I'm going to give race control the benefit of the doubt on this one
because Detroit is a very narrow street course.
If this happens at Road America, for example, like in turn five,
if someone gets bumped wide way out there, you know, in the brake zone
and has to like refire and get going again, there's no damage to the car.
And there's a yellow for that.
Like maybe then we need to be having this conversation again.
But until it gets to that point, I think it was fine.
Yeah, I think it definitely added an element to the race.
Yeah, as Tim said, the strategists were thinking over time on that one.
And the right guy still won.
So the fastest car is still in the race.
So and the next best car came second, right?
And they were on different strategies and everything still converged at the end.
We might not always get that lucky, but ultimately the top two were two.
I just have a question about the penalty.
One, so you got you got the drive through for entering a close, close pit.
What's the thinking?
Well, yeah, what's the thinking of serving it right away
rather than waiting till the field spreads out?
You have to do it right away.
I thought you just had to serve it before the end of the race.
No, you have to serve it.
You have to you have to cross star finish once.
Yeah, and then you have to serve it.
OK, I didn't know that. Thanks.
Yeah. No, because it's a good question.
Because like in F one, you get like time penalties, right?
And you can either serve it in a pit stop or it gets added to your race time at the end of a race.
So if you're, you know, if you're on track and have enough time to come in
and then serve a serve a penalty and not lose a position, you'll do it.
Or if you're out of the points, you'll do it or like whatever.
It's kind of a bit different how they're applied there.
But yeah, our drivers are on your second penalty
where it was a stop and hold for the contact with Grosjean.
To me, as a layman who does not understand a lot of interests,
that seemed like overkill.
I thought, given the incident, it should have been a drive through.
I've never gotten a stop and hold 15 seconds before.
I don't know where that came from.
Like that number seems random, too.
But like it also felt excessive because you were 15th, but then it dropped you to 17th.
Like it was maybe that's why they did it because they didn't matter.
Just to me, it felt excessive.
So on that, I like fully deserving of the penalty.
And we've again talked about this on the show a lot.
You know, there's a lot of contact in IndyCar, some intentional, some not intentional.
The contact where both cars, you know, have contact and keep going.
Kind of no harm, no foul.
Contact where both cars.
And there was plenty of that.
There was plenty of that in a drive.
Including Grojan on the other side of it.
I got hit a bunch of times, but it kept going.
And contact where both guys are out, no harm, no foul.
Contact where one guy's day has ended and the other guy continues.
That should be a penalty, which is the case that happened with me and Romain.
So yeah, I had no issue with that because I, I was an intentional
whatsoever.
He's actually someone that I quite enjoy racing these days.
And I felt very bad that it ended his day.
It was just one of those overlap things where I missed time in the crossover
and my nose hit his left rear.
And unfortunately, that was enough to put him in the wall and break his suspension.
So have you talked to him about it since?
I have. Yeah. Yeah. No, we're good. We're super good.
And yes, but yes, where the 15, like when Ed told me that on the radio, I was like,
I'm sorry, what?
Like that's, that's new.
So I don't know, but I also haven't really read the rulebook that closely.
So maybe it does exist.
I'm sure it exists.
Good question, no, Tim.
You've had a couple.
Do you have any other good questions or is that you?
That seems like it's all I got.
Yeah, I was afraid you were going to say that.
Well, OK, so at the end of the day,
Polo one again, had to work for it this time.
Kirkwood gave him an honest run with all the restarts at the end.
Kirkwood was on the soft and Polo was on the hard.
He had to he had to fight him off for those first couple apps when the tire
towns were coming up. But once they came up, Polo on a hard,
he just drives away from everybody and kind of did the same thing again.
So, you know, the top two guys kind of all year long, finished first and second again.
You know, so I give Kirkwood and the 27 crew credit
because they're they're at least keeping him honest and trying to keep him
with an arm's reach.
The the points gap now is over a race weekend win.
So that's when things start getting tough.
And we're going to attract that even though statistically
or even sorry, even though he won it last year,
Kirkwood, statistically, it's not been his best track.
That said, short ovals haven't been in Dreddy's bag for a while,
and they did a really good job as a team in Phoenix.
So hopefully they've made some some progress
and set ups a little bit stronger there and they can be in the fight this weekend.
Oh, props to Graham.
Just another just another Graham Ray Hall kind of day got spun out,
sent to the back and then just strategyed and shimmied and shook his way up
to another podium. Very cool.
First time he's had a podium with all of his kids there,
which is kind of kind of neat.
So heading into Gateway.
Alex, how do we feel about the way of gate?
Worldwide technology is what you mean?
Yes, sorry.
Listen, listen, I think I mean,
you see our cars are pretty stout on these short ovals.
So I think.
I think we could be really, really good.
And I think we should be really, really good.
It's going to be it's a different package this year, which
do you remember the race last year, James?
Yes, pretty good, pretty good,
especially like at the end when the sun went down and, you know,
and we're starting later.
So like it's going to be those conditions for more of the race.
Well, James, and that was the best gateway that we've had
since we went back to gateway,
since we went back to Worldwide Technology for this.
No, we get excited.
No, OK, we are going to low boost and more downforce
from last year.
OK, it is going to be potentially
like semi pack racing on a short oval, which is bad ass.
OK, like we're predicting it's going to be flat qualifying.
Why are we adding downforce?
I don't know.
Because my only concern is the right front.
Well, it was a little bit.
But no, honestly, no, because if if Firestone is willing to do it,
because they're always very, very wide, a right front from Phoenix.
So right, right.
So that that part doesn't doesn't worry me.
What worries me is that if if it's if it's a nighttime for longer
and track temps cooler and we have more downforce, we get no dig.
And what can happen on the short oval is with too much downforce
is every if you can run flat by yourself on the bottom,
you're not passing someone on the top.
Yeah, so you do need the tires to fall off a little bit
and you need to have the good car, bad car separation happen at some point
in the stand to allow that high line to even become an option.
So it's traffic.
But then but then if the traffic can just run flat on the bottom
and the leaders can't pass them, it becomes this this literal train
of every car being seven tenths to a second apart
and you just drive around equidistant the entire night.
That's what used to happen at Phoenix,
at Gateway, at whatever, when we had like boat loads of downforce.
I don't think we're at those numbers yet.
And do you know how much we're going up numbers wise?
It's plus 100 something.
OK, that should be all right.
As long as it's not like plus 700 pounds.
I think no, I think that'll be the.
But that that with the entire.
Well, yeah, so that's kind of like that's that's the big change.
Do you know why do they did that?
I don't. I don't even you.
Was there a test at somebody go and test here?
No. No, nobody tested low boost and more downforce.
Is the downforce just from like a like a wing angle
or are we at in strengths or where there's no max anymore?
OK, and then they add there's like one wicker off the floor
that you have to run now that adds a step,
which is the same thing we ran at Phoenix.
So is it just the Phoenix package?
Is that just basically what they've done?
Yes. Yeah, OK.
Pretty much.
Which I mean, that's the closest track to gate gate
to worldwide technology raceway by a significant margin.
So I think that the big variable is it's going to be night.
So it's going to be super gripped up, super gripped up.
Yeah, there you go.
Nine p.m. Eastern, I think eight p.m.
Central, you're saying it could be negative,
which of course it could be.
I think it's going to be freaking bad ass.
So if it's going to make it if it's if it's that right amount
and you can just but again, if you can run the bottom flat out front
by yourself, that's that's bad.
You need to at some point have to lift to create some variation.
Hmm.
But we'll see. We'll see.
Obviously, we'll know in a couple of days.
We'll know in a couple of days.
So make sure you tune in on Fox 9 p.m.
Eastern, 8 p.m. Central Sunday night for a absolute
predicted barn burner under the lights and under the massive
pyrotechnics that we always have at worldwide.
I really hope that's the only fire that we see.
I'm sick of being on fire.
I've got to be honest, man.
I'm not going to put money on that.
Me neither.
Although, if you're a betting person,
Joseph Newgarden is someone you should put money on.
He's pretty good around there, but Alex will be on fire.
Like in the metaphorical sense, right?
Sure.
This has been off track with Hinch and Rossi.
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About this episode
Detroit comes right after Indy, and the hosts zero in on what that means for crews: “Detroit happened the week after Indy, unfortunately.” They debate why the schedule stays tight for TV and new viewers, then get into Detroit’s short, chaotic circuit—“one point 65 mile, shortest track on the calendar, nine turns”—and how bumpy streets change gear choice. The conversation shifts to tire strategy, cautions, and race-control calls, including how pit timing and penalties play out.
First we get waaaaay off track, but we eventually get to recapping the race in Detroit.
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Off Track is part of the SiriusXM Sports Podcast Network. If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more, please give a 5-star rating and leave a review. Subscribe today wherever you stream your podcasts.
