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Digital ID - awesome or scary - the future though!
Digital ID - awesome or scary - the future though!
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About this episode
Connect ID is framed as Australia’s government-backed digital ID, with the host digging into how it’s used and whether people should worry. The conversation explains bank-based verification—“without handing over any information”—and highlights policy points like “nobody's going to be mandated to use a digital ID.” Budget figures and pilots are discussed, including rental applications where applicants may avoid sharing passports or driver’s licences. The show also touches on telco costs and how social media algorithms change engagement.
WiFi at home is important, so what do we look for - caller questions this and has ideas of his own...
Plus a regular is back with his Optus Loyalty shining through, can he be convinced to switch away?
And we talk Digital ID with one of the heads of ConnectID - what is it, how does it work, will we all adopt it?
Filter:
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Term
2.4 GHz
"two Wi-Fi networks [626.3s] the 2.4 GHz and the 5 GHz [628.3s] different devices connect to different ones"
Wi‑Fi uses different radio “lanes.” The 2.4 GHz lane usually reaches farther, but it can get busy and feel slower.
“2.4 GHz” is a Wi‑Fi radio band. It typically travels farther and penetrates walls better, but it’s often more crowded and can be slower than higher bands.
Term
5 GHz
"two Wi-Fi networks [626.3s] the 2.4 GHz and the 5 GHz [628.3s] different devices connect to different ones [630.3s] and they work on different speeds"
5 GHz is another Wi‑Fi “lane.” It’s often faster, but the signal usually doesn’t go as far or pass through walls as easily.
“5 GHz” is another Wi‑Fi radio band. It generally offers higher speeds and less interference than 2.4 GHz, but it usually doesn’t travel as far or through walls as well.
Brand
Orbi
"but those routers [632.5s] so the Orbi or the Amazon Eero [636.3s] all the TP links or whatever you buy"
Orbi is a company/brand that makes mesh Wi‑Fi. It uses multiple Wi‑Fi units working together to cover more of your home.
Orbi is a brand of mesh Wi‑Fi systems. Like other mesh setups, Orbi nodes communicate with each other to extend coverage and maintain connectivity across rooms.
Brand
Amazon Eero
"so the Orbi or the Amazon Eero [636.3s] all the TP links or whatever you buy [638.1s] they also need to communicate with each other"
Amazon eero makes mesh Wi‑Fi systems. Instead of one router, it uses multiple units so Wi‑Fi can reach more rooms.
Amazon eero is a brand of home mesh Wi‑Fi systems. Mesh products like eero are designed to cover a whole house by using multiple nodes that communicate with each other.
Brand
TP links
"[636.3s] all the TP links or whatever you buy [638.1s] they also need to communicate with each other [640.9s] and with the dual band system"
TP-Link is a networking brand that makes Wi‑Fi routers and mesh systems. They’re part of the same category of gear being discussed here.
TP-Link is a brand that sells networking gear, including home Wi‑Fi routers and mesh systems. The segment is comparing different brands’ mesh approaches and how they handle multi-band communication.
Term
dual band system
"and with the dual band system [642.9s] they're using the same [644.4s] Wi-Fi bands to communicate with each other [646.8s] as you are to get on the internet"
A dual-band Wi‑Fi setup can broadcast on two different Wi‑Fi frequencies. That can help devices connect more easily and can improve how routers talk to each other.
A “dual band system” uses two Wi‑Fi bands (commonly 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz) to serve devices. In mesh or multi-router setups, those bands can also be used for router-to-router communication.
Term
tri band system
"which is why a tri band system [651.5s] starts to look really attractive [653.2s] but it's a big jump up"
A tri-band Wi‑Fi system has an extra frequency. Often that extra band is used for the routers to talk to each other, which can make the whole network faster and more stable.
A “tri band system” uses three Wi‑Fi bands, typically adding a dedicated band for backhaul (router-to-router communication). That can reduce competition between devices and improve throughput in a mesh network.
Term
Wi-Fi 7
"that's still Wi-Fi 7 [664.7s] but that's a like for like [666.9s] $649 Amazon Eero"
Wi‑Fi 7 is the newest Wi‑Fi “generation.” It’s meant to be faster and more responsive, especially when lots of devices are connected.
“Wi‑Fi 7” is the latest generation of Wi‑Fi standards (IEEE 802.11be). It’s designed to improve speed, reduce latency, and better handle many devices—especially when paired with tri-band mesh designs.
Brand
Netgear
"[668.6s] $1199 Amazon Eero [670.9s] Netgear do have [673.2s] a system but it's"
Netgear is a brand that makes home networking equipment like routers and mesh Wi‑Fi. They’re being mentioned as another competitor in this space.
Netgear is a networking brand that makes routers and mesh Wi‑Fi systems. In this segment, it’s mentioned as another option in the same tri-band/mesh category.
Select text to request an explanation
The EFTM podcast. Talkback technology. Got a question about tech?
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G'day G'day. Great to have you company and thank you for downloading.
Once again the EFTM podcast.
Trev along here and look forward to talking to you if you've got a tech question or a tech comment.
I'd love to be of assistance or just shoot the breeze with you about tech.
We've got a couple of people to talk to today. Plus I want to talk digital ID. Malcolm Roberts favourite topic.
Do you remember that episode? Wild.
But there's been an announcement by the government about digital ID.
So I wanted to dig into it a little bit and try and understand it.
So we will talk to one of the managers of the Australian Payments Network Australian Payments Plus Connect ID.
Remember we talked to them about the age verification system that they were introducing with Snapchat and other platforms.
Well Connect ID is in its simplest form a digital ID.
And so how and where can it be used and when are we going to get it in more places and should we be worried?
Obviously they're going to say no. But I'll leave you to judge based on what they and I say.
That's what we do here. It's all good.
But most importantly we'd love to hear from you as well.
If you have a tech question or you know someone else with a tech question you can refer other people to me as well.
You can tell other people just text Trev and he'll see if he can answer you.
If you do do that please let them know it's a podcast and I'm not just going to ring them randomly.
I had a funny interaction with someone. I was lining up someone for the EV podcast.
So producer Rob works hard lining up the callers for this show.
But for some reason he hasn't taken over lining up the EV callers.
That's a conversation for another day.
He'll probably want more money so I'll have to clip money off Steven and it's just complicated.
No I'm joking. But I was texting a guy and I said are you available to talk and they go who is this?
And I went scroll up like you text me.
And then it turns out they were driving so they just got my message and it was like that's a bit weird.
And then they said yeah sure I'd love to chat but don't want to be recorded or on air or anything.
And I'm like well that's pretty much what we do.
There's no real benefit for us in just taking ten minutes of our time to talk to you randomly
about your questions or issues or comments or whatever it might be.
So it was just funny because why else would you text?
But anyway if you do refer me to someone please let them know that I am a broadcast commentator
who will talk to them while recording them.
It'll be just them and me.
That's how we operate. But it's a bit of fun.
There's a bit going on as you will have seen at eftm.com lots of products and stuff I can't even talk about now.
I've been wearing a product all morning that I'm going to talk about probably tomorrow.
There's some fascinating stuff happening in shall we just say the audio space.
I've been talking all week on the radio also about JBL's new range of headphones so hopefully they arrive today
and I can have a bit of a muck around with those as well.
Lots of little products to play with.
I've only got a week and a half before we head to London with Amazon for their Deliver the Future event
and then we're off to Cupertino, California with Apple for the Worldwide Developers Conference
which is just two and a half weeks away give or take.
The diary is filling up pretty fast and I had to have a conversation with Stephen
a bit of planning conversation about podcasting because obviously I also plan later this year
to have a little family holiday with the kids and my father-in-law and my wife
were taking my father-in-law and the kids to New York to see the Yankees.
My father-in-law is a big Yankees fan so why the hell not we say.
So we're going after the hopeful.
Hopefully Apple has an event in September and I just go from there
because my family is all booked to be in San Francisco that week.
So if Apple delays their September iPhone event
my wife and family will be on holidays in the US and I'll have to duck out
and go back to Apple so that's life that they understand.
The turbulent nature of these things.
I may not know that until a week beforehand, God love it.
So we'll play with that as it happens but that's later in the year
so there'll be no EFTM podcast during that time as well.
But there will be Two Blokes Talking Electric Cars, there will be the movie show
and there might be a couple episodes of Two Blokes Talking Tech with me
but I think probably we might enlist the help of Valence Quinn
from Gadget Guy to pop in and do some weekly stuff with Steven
so I don't have to be complete weirdo on holidays doing podcasts
but I'll have products to review over there so it's a bit of a working holiday
but more holiday than work.
Anyway all of that is to say you can't rely on this show happening every week
because in two weeks I'll be in London and I don't know that I want to get up
but whatever hour of the morning this is, 1am or something
or no midnight it'll be right now and do talk back calls with Australia.
I just don't see that happening but we might, you never know.
We also might have cool interviews so I'm trying my best to remember
when I get cool emails to say oh let's just do it on the podcast
so I think those are fun things for us to do so when I'm with Amazon
I'll try and have some conversations that I can bring to you on the podcast
just like today's a conversation with Andrew from Payments Plus Network
you know trying to enhance this as to more than just your calls
so trying my best to remember at all times that I've got this platform
and can use it in the same way that I just dropped such an Adelaan interview here
because I thought why not, like I did it I may as well share it you know what I'm saying
but I always welcome your feedback and it's always welcome
is it always pleasantly welcome to know
but I take it for what it is
so please don't hesitate to let me know what you think
0477657657
or jump onto the app and click Ask Trev or the website of course
and click Ask Trev as well
I'm not going to pre-announce anything else
there's things going on I'm playing with stuff I'm meddling
but we'll get to that in the fullness of time
for now though let's get to your calls and talk digital ID
047657 that's the text line thanks to Vodafone
get in touch and Ask Trev today
great to have you company thank you for listening downloading
and thank you for getting in touch always good to hear from you
it doesn't matter whether you want buying advice or you want to brag about something
I'm here for you and can take you call
Andrew's on the line can I Andrew?
hey Hagon
yeah really good mate what can I do for you
hey looking to upgrade my home
Wi-Fi and yeah just looking for some advice
I'm currently running an airport extreme but
we're getting the NBN on
and yeah just need some
looking at Wi-Fi 7 future proofing got two small kids
that are only going to use it more and more so
how old are the kids?
8 and 2
oh yes they are going to use it way more
what do you have
describe the home to me
single story multi-story
single story
single story L shaped
it's on a
on an acre so outside if we can as well
looking at Wi-Fi 7 if possible
but yeah just there's too many things on the market
I've got no idea
budget in mind?
doesn't really matter just as long as it does the job
yeah well mate it's annoying
as annoying as it is
you get what you pay for that's the first thing to know
so it's funny I had someone just yesterday
so I've got this Google mesh and I've had it for a few years
and it doesn't do this and I'm like
well I mean you know it's a different system
and it doesn't do this because of you know
what's built into it basically so sometimes
it is exactly that
so I'm mindful of the products under $300
for example
you know they're never going to
outlast the
dreams and ideals of your children
so you know I look at the products
in the 600 plus range
and I go okay so take for example
two side by side Amazon Eero
and Netgear Orbi
Wi-Fi 7 both of them
three packs both of them
649
that's a starting point
without any question in my mind I wouldn't go less than that
if you can afford that that's a great starting point
firstly because it's a three pack system
so router
two satellites that's going to work beautifully
in an L shaped home
and that's also going to cover that backyard area
just because of the very nature of the shape of the home
they're both Wi-Fi 7
that's also great
the limitation if I was to
find a limitation for you in for example
the Orbi 370 series in that price range
is that it's dual band
and so when we say dual band
you have this system where
the
your home network has
two Wi-Fi networks
the 2.4 GHz and the 5 GHz
different devices connect to different ones
and they work on different speeds all good
but those routers
so the Orbi or the Amazon Eero
all the TP links or whatever you buy
they also need to communicate with each other
and with the dual band system
they're using the same
Wi-Fi bands to communicate with each other
as you are to get on the internet
which is why a tri band system
starts to look really attractive
but it's a big jump up
for the Amazon Eero it's $11.99
so you're talking a
$500 price jump
to get a tri band system
that's still Wi-Fi 7
but that's a like for like
$649 Amazon Eero
$1199 Amazon Eero
Netgear do have
a system but it's
even more expensive it's $14.99
so there's a lot of benefits
to the Netgear system I would argue
especially with kids there's parental controls
there's home security as in
your device security built in
so you can't be attacked from the outside
on your network
it blocks other devices joining your network
there's some seriously good things about the Netgear system
but at $14.99
it might push you too far so you might end up going
Amazon's pretty good
at $11.99
Wi-Fi 7 tri band
pretty darn good deal
and if you wonder in the future
you've always got the expansion
Amazon I got an outdoor thing you can plug in
but I think you'll get the outdoor coverage you want
from any of these systems
just based on the design of your home
I have been
sort of looking at the ubiquities
dream 3 out of 7
I've had a little bit of experience
mucking around with them but
yeah it is
but it comes a bit of a hobby once you start to
drive into that stuff
it's an ecosystem of its own
but the one great thing about ubiquity is the community
now look
a lot of people own Netgears
and own Amazon heroes and own Google Wi-Fi
but are they on Reddit
helping each other? Not as much
so the ubiquity community
like if you come up with
ideas or things you want to do with your network
or things you want to block or enable
the community is remarkable
for ubiquity so
if you're a bit of a dabbler
then you may love that
in that sense but just know
it's a gateway drug to
expanding and growing and doing
a lot of different things but
I've never heard a bad word said about ubiquity
no worries buddy good luck
and enjoy the speeds of
Wi-Fi 7 mate
thank you have a good one
no worries at all
yeah I mean
I don't mention ubiquity because
they're rarely available in major retail stores
they call them niche
and they are they're broadly niche
they were born out of a more
of a small business corporate style network
and they are very tinkery
while they do work out of the box
a lot of the core features and things are
best enabled through a bit of tinkering
so
that's probably one of the reasons
they don't really crack major retail
like JB's but you know
JB's if you look now that's pretty much dominated
by Amazon, Netgear and TP-Link
there's others there but
that's essentially the market
I think that's also
a sign of what
JB's seen
you gotta remember a retail store like JB
they don't just go
oh you got a product do you want to sell it cool yeah
okay put it on the shelf they first of all
they do deals because you gotta
buy the shelf space essentially
but more importantly
they monitor everything
so if they get
a 5% return on
Amazon Hero
a 3% return on Netgear
and when I say return I mean people bringing them back
because they break, failed or didn't work
or were too hard to work out
and they get a you know
12% return on another brand
they're gonna go when they're looking at their shelf space
and they go oh you know what
it's just more trouble than it's worth
to bring out the other brand so I'm fascinated
actually now as I just
look at the JB website to think
I think they've narrowed their range
I think they've narrowed their range
to a point where they believe they have
found the most trusted
brands in this market and it appears
to be a race of three
TP-Link
Netgear
and Amazon
so
all power to those three brands
there's an ASUS there as well
I can see but you know if I
scroll I don't see a lot other than those
anyway
there may be more but just
at a quick glance it doesn't appear that way so
there's a lot of options there and I've said it for many years
but knowing the difference between
one and another so which is why I point out the difference
between the 649 and the 1199
it's going to be
less congestion
it's going to be when those kids do grow up
and they're using the internet more
everyone's going to get a bit of a path
on the freeway and that's what you want
Great to have you company and if you want to be
part of this show I would love to hear from you
whether you've just bought something new
or you're looking to buy something new
it doesn't matter, get in touch
and we'll get you on the show and we'll have a chat
try and help you out or you can just brag about something you bought
I'm cool with that
so before we get back to your calls
the federal budget last week
lots of memes going around about it
but the thing that hasn't gotten any attention really
and I thought it would to be honest
because people freak out
when you talk about digital ID
was 650 odd million dollars
allocated to digital ID through
Services Australia and other things
in broad simple terms
my own summary reading of it is essentially
their refunding and
additionally funding the systems
and back ends that allow for the digital ID
and trying to expand it
in some way to roll it out
in a better way and
make a system that they describe
as essentially tell us once
so you shouldn't have to tell the government
one piece of information about you more than once
because they should all know about it
it's the government and that is
essentially what a digital ID is
plus there's a very exciting trial that will
demonstrate a great use
of digital ID
now one company that's very close to this
is Australian Payments Plus
and we spoke to them
earlier in the year or late last year
about the social media ban
and the age verification system
that was being rolled out using
their platform called Connect ID
and I'm pleased to say Andrew Black
the managing director of digital trust
at Australian Payments Plus joins me again
although I get a Andrew, how are you doing?
Yeah, well Shaffer, how are you?
Mate, really good, before we talk
digital ID, Connect ID
we talked about it I think
when it first rolled out it was
Snapchat was where I discovered it but you've now
got that connection happening on a few different platforms
how's that going?
That's right, so quite a few places
in social media, so Snapchat
and Reddit, two
headline names as well as a few others
but also across a range of other places
Telstra, Deloitte
from Australia, and a range
of customers from sort of small
medium across lots of industries
And to rewind for people that might
have missed that conversation essentially
what your platform allows me to do
when our website or a service
asks me to verify
my age or other
information, I'm simply
connecting my bank account
through your system but without
handing over any information
or giving any authority
or handing over any banking information
to that platform or service
you're simply verifying me
in a simple and easy
way.
That's right, so what we sort of really set out to do
is how do you help verify
someone is who they are
or something about them, like the rage
for social media, with an organization
that they already know and trust and who already
knows and trusts them, like the bank
so we work with the
four major banks so far
and extending that further out
to me, instead of having to take photographs
of passports or documents
or upload or scan something in
you can just get your bank
to verify, yes it is Trevor
and for social media it is over 16
and that's all they're making things
really easy for people as well
as reducing the risk, reducing the amount
of data you have to share, information
you have to share and keeping things
safe and straightforward.
What is your take
as a company on the announcement
in the federal budget? Is it good?
Is it enough? Should there be more done?
I think it's really encouraging
to be honest, so yeah,
654 million I think over the next four years
and I think what that means
is sort of setting out a few things.
The government is committed to expanding
and continuing the digital identity
programs.
Primarily what that sort of looks like is
the government making it really easy
for people to interact with government
so using my ID, using services
in Australia and building on the
foundations of that.
We already do that for the private sector with ConnectID
so government sort of has that system up
and running for the federal government.
ConnectID has been doing that with the private sector
what this budget continues
to show is actually the next stage is how we bring
those two things together and how do we allow
people to use
either your bank identity in the government services
or use your government
identity with private services.
That's a critical thing right?
What I was most worried about
in the world of digital
IDs is having to have
too many of them.
Is the vision for the future
medium to long term
that an individual like me
just picks a lane
and essentially picks an app?
I think about my mum, she's in her 70s
and I have set her up with my ID app
because I know she needs to log on now
and then to Centrelink or whatever it might be.
I don't see me setting
up another ID app for her right?
But
as someone tech savvy broadly
I mean I could obviously use a bunch of apps
but should we as individuals just get to choose
which app we use and it gets used everywhere
is that the goal? So if I choose to be
a ConnectID user
then whether I'm signing up at Telstra
or for a
rental home or signing into my
gov should I be able to use the one app?
That word choice is the crucial one
right? So what the government's been really
clear on is that nobody's going to be
mandated to use a digital ID, nobody's
going to be forced to use my gov
and the choice and sort of trust and transparency
are really important. What ConnectID
will allow you to do is you can
choose who you want at that point of
interaction right? So with Telstra
if you're taking out a new plan today
you can choose between the four major banks
so there's no new digital ID app to download
only to set up, you can just use your
banking app but we'll also work with the
federal government to connect in so that you
could also use my ID if you wanted to
and some people will want to, some want to use
a private sector provider and use their bank
somebody will want to use the
government and actually for some people
it's kind of situation dependent right?
Like if you feel like maybe you're taking out
insurance that might feel more of a
financial services sort of transaction
you might want to use a bank if you're
doing something and your children
sort of education enrollment that might
feel like more of a government transaction
a lot of our research says that people
want to have choice at that point
in time and what feels most comfortable
to them. The key thing for us is that
by using our network
and Australian Payments Plus has sort of been running
the payments networks in the country for
40 years, our network means
that for a business you plug in once
and you get access to all
of these sources and for a user we have
sort of that no wrong door. It's like when you tap
your card at a terminal you don't know how
the payment is sort of wired in the
back rooms right? It just works.
I just want to know the time I don't
want to know how the watch is made as they say
do you know what I mean? Exactly.
And your system is essentially built
on the trust that we as individuals have
with our bank.
So what I guess we need
to get to understand is
I'm assuming that when I sign up
for a Telstra plan or whatever it is and I want to talk to you about that in a minute
but when I'm
going to take the path of Connect ID
it's actually one
logo.
Think check out
on a website. You've normally got the option of
do I want to use Google Pay, Apple Pay
or PayPal. There's three buttons.
Are you saying to me
that in the future I'll be able to sign
up to things and now but more so
in the future and there'll be a Connect ID
button that then launches and sends me
to my bank or will it just show
all four bank logos
because clearly if you
onboard more banks you won't be able to show all the logos.
So is it Connect ID that becomes the face
of this for the banks?
That's right and that's how it works today.
So you'll see
sign up with Connect ID or check out
with Connect ID button
on the Telstra website today.
You'll click on that and then it will
drop down a list of all the available
providers. So the four banks today
more in the future but also my ID
in the future as well.
So it will just drop down that list afterwards
for you then you choose your provider
you log into your bank listing where you were today
where they'll spend password or
biometrics sort of flogging
you can sense because again really important
that the individual's aware of what they're
sharing and importantly what they don't have to share
and then you're taken back
to Telstra to finish checking out
and it's 20 seconds for me to explain it
but 5 seconds to click
and do it. The rental
application pilot the government
announced is also very
deep in the budget documents but I thought it was
an excellent initiative because
there'd be plenty of people listening who are
either in the process of looking for
a rental property or have recently
been already at any point been
through that process. Is it
the case that essentially
rather than and this is how I've
described it so tell me if I'm wrong but
you know wherever you need to prove your identity
you got to bring along a passport
or driver's license and a Medicare card
you're 100 points of ID. I think the average
Aussie knows what 100 points of ID
means and they probably
if they get told they need to bring it they probably quickly
check hang on does a bank card
a driver's license and a bill
add up to 100 or whatever it might be.
Is it the case that
instead of having to show 100 points
of ID to a real estate agent
who's going to photocopy my driver's license
my energy bill and my Medicare
card and keep it in a
folder somewhere in their office or
worse scanned and in the cloud
somewhere that I don't know how secure it is
and instead of that I use
a digital ID of some sort
which verifies me and that's all they need
I'm impressed you made it that far into the budget
I won't lie I used AI
I used AI
I was going to say I question your night time reading
if that's what you made it to
but no you're exactly right so
today the process
is pretty manual, pretty cumbersome
and the other challenge is rental
so it's not just the time you actually successfully
get a rental application
to do it, it's every time you apply
and people are typically
in this market of applying sort of 5 to 15
times before often getting
a successful application approved
so every single time there you're over
sharing that amount of data
what the trial proved with the Department of
Finance as the government
was that digital ID is a perfect way
to remove some of that friction
you can verify that I am
over 100, over 18
in some scenarios where you need to prove affordability
you can say
earn enough to afford this rent
without having to share 7 years worth of bank statements
to be able to do that
and it gives the real estate agent
all they need and also reduces the amount of things
they have to store, they don't want to be storing
all this document, the next challenge
which is where the
the budget that comes in, the next steps of that
is aligning legislation
because while this sounds boring
actually today you can't accept a digital identity
in some states
and I was going to ask why does the government need to be involved
in this because it sounds like the sort of thing
if I'm a real estate agent I'm trying to digitise everything
I'm like what do we do to avoid this
but then if you realise that actually
there's requirements
at law which say that
you need to do and store
and cite certain things
then that needs to change first
before an industry can change
that's right and it's state by state
with real estate and rentals are some you can
but some you can't
but it's a good example of where
the technology is there ready
people are adopting it and using it
actually we just need to sort of align the legislation
but that was the point of the trial
to show government and show the industry
that there's better ways to do this
we did that with the telco sector
sort of 12 months ago
again you had to capture a document
12 months ago to
verify something about you but we demonstrated that
with ACMA
the regulator there, the digital identity
produces fraud, makes things safer
and there's no
kind of decreased security
and that legislation has been changed as a result
so there's lots of wins there just following up
I'm blown away because
I didn't even know that
like in my mind the Optus hack
and other hacks pointed to a problem
that existed with our identities that
legislatively
Optus for example
needed to
copy
and retain your driver's license number
expiry date and things like that
as a proof of your identity etc etc
are you telling me the legislation
has already changed that they are not required
to retain identity
information that was used
to prove who the individual is
and they now need to just, they are able to
don't need to but they're able to
simply use a digital ID
to verify an individual
so it has subsequently changed
yes, in the last 12 months
so that's the power
of what we've demonstrated with Kinectity
along with the amazing help of Telstra
is showing that
you can make things easier for people
you can make things easier for the business
and you don't compromise security and actually
you increase the detection
of fraud and help protect
both people and business
all with one wave of the
legislative pen
did you say that Telstra had implemented it only
on one aspect like prepaid or postpaid
I can't remember what you said
so currently today on
prepaid some activation
but that's expanding over the next couple of months
so if you stay tuned
you'll see it pop up in a few more places
in Telstra in the next month or so
I mean that's a huge step forward
and so hang on let's just rewind
here and be very clear so if I
either buy on online or get it a
service station grab a Telstra SIM card
and then I go to activate it
it always asks me who I am and let's be clear
I've done this so many times because
I have tested many telcos over the years
so I've actually I think I've been blocked
from because you don't know they have
you're only allowed to have so many services
in your name and so I need to be
unblocked from some of the telcos but
and there's a reason for that right
because the government realized that
you know the underworld
excuse me was buying
bunch of SIM cards and acting
illicitly so they made a
change you had to approve who you were
and you could be limited only by a certain number
of mobile plans etc etc
so I can now go and get a SIM
and when I go to sign in it
it asks me my name and my address
but then it uses connect ID
to verify who I am and basically I'm not
handing over much at all to Telstra
exactly
exactly that we've been doing that with Telstra
for a year we've launched that with more
telecom as well and there's a few more
telcos sort of coming in the coming weeks
and months because as you say
it's absolutely right that
you need to identify who the individual is right
some of those are used for nefarious
purposes but what we've shown is
that doesn't need to be a photocopy
it doesn't need to be uploading a document
you can do that really cleanly and simply
with a digital ID
and still protect
Telstra, protect user user
and make everything easier for everyone
and so do you now have a team that's literally
looking at legislation and going right
where's what other industries do we need
because again and you know
applying I think of the hacks that have occurred
right so latitude was another one
and you think about the amount of places
where you can now do finance at the counter
whether it's a big retail store
or otherwise and those things obviously
that's good that they require information
but it's about reducing
what I hand over that gets retained
so I'm all for
and I think we're all for them proving
who we are but it's about what gets retained
and we just need to remind ourselves
Medibank, latitude,
Optus, those
breaches resulted in millions of people's
data being exposed
and so if we fast forward 20 years
and we go okay well
you know we don't want to put it on Telstra
but you know they've been using
this system for 20 years
in their prepaid system how many
people were affected by some sort of
security incident
oh 10 million customers
but no information was obtained
because we don't retain any information
full stop done we're in a good
space that's the purpose of this
exactly right that's
the beauty you then don't have
you know 10 million people
who have to get a new driving license
because a driving license number has been
part of that breach right there's nothing
there or captured so we've got a range
of different industries where that's
insurance super or you
may hear the expression
Trange 2 thrown around which is
a very very boring regulatory change
but a really important one where
anti-money laundering laws are
extending out to more sectors so again
businesses need to verify something
about you for money laundering
which again absolutely
the right thing to do with those tractor regulator
but it's extending out from
currently today you know banks
financial service providers to a lot of
small businesses accountants bookkeepers
you know rental as well
these are new compliance burdens
for those sectors that don't
currently have to verify today
and actually the benefit now
with digital ID is that they can get that
right from day one right they don't need to
go through this back catalog of urging
old things that had to capture
you know when that comes into force in July
this year they can use digital ID
from day one and they don't need that huge
big cybersecurity team that many of the
multinationals have when there are
you know one to ten person business
they can capture
that with their regulatory requirements
and keeps things safe from day one
what do you say to
or have you even met with
Malcolm Roberts for example
who's very very anti-digital
ID
um
is it privacy
Malcolm Roberts
yes Senator Malcolm Roberts who spends
I interviewed him on this show
about digital ID
some years ago and
look he just honestly is a lunatic
he went on a rant and rave about
government digital currencies and things
but if we if we put
in a bucket a bunch of people
who are scared of digital ID
what what do we say to them
or is it no we do not need to
worry about it yet because they're not
required to use it and we just say don't worry about it
just keep doing what you're doing
well I had the pleasure of Malcolm Roberts
um asking me some of those questions
at a senate inquiry on digital ID
a couple of years ago so I can I can share
that um
you know I think I think the benefit that we
we have at you with the system is that
it sort of avoids that digital identity
big brother show your card debate
it is voluntary it is
opt-in the benefit of something like
Kinect ID is it does give you a choice if you don't want to use the government
you don't have to use the government
that's really the sort of sweet spot of what
the design implementation is
that other countries have gone down the
route of you will use the government identity
everywhere you go
Australia is not doing that it is very much kept
this as a um there will always be
an alternative route there will always
be a non-digital option and there will always be
a non-government option so
I think that
um some of those questions I understand
I understand the concerns of but
they're not found in Australia
that's um the benefit of what we've sort of
co-developed with the federal government
and the great thing is in the favour
of digital ID there's been
enough publicity around
data loss and handing over of
information that I think most people
are aware and broadly
scared so while they're not
voting with their feet to change telcos
because their telco got hacked they're
they're wary from the next time they hand over their
information are you
are you in the prime poll position
in the private sector with this
or is it a super competitive space
well I think
what we've seen is that there's a few
different factors at play so
what we have sort of built is the
the leading private sector
um I guess network and infrastructure
in the same way we're on the payments
infrastructure for fbp you know pay
to pay id those sort of love brands
so we're certainly you know helping
helping steer that forward with the country
actually competition is really good right
and that's what we have four banks competing
you know other government competing
because competition means choice
and for users you get more choice
for us it's about enabling that
and us playing that role of a sort of
acceptance network for businesses so
that no matter if there is competition
and choice it doesn't increase
their costs it makes things easy and simple
for businesses.
It's an awesome space a fascinating
space and I do think this didn't get anywhere near
the attention it deserved but that's for other reasons
of policy in the budget I think
any other any other day it could have been
a huge huge story but you know it's probably
a good thing in some ways that it just
bubbles away and grows
and then we get to a point where these
rental um stories I think
will start to come out how far away
is that rental trial do you think
So we concluded the trial uh I think
in I think in April
I think we completed it a couple months ago
and government will be presenting its findings in the next
sort of month or so we expect
um and from there
we expect things to start rolling out
so in the next couple months so I'm hoping by the end
of the year anyone applying for a rental
application um has the option
to not share a passport or a driving license.
Amazing and a real estate agent
there'll just be a simple system for them
I mean it's not an overhead for them to implement
Exactly
really easy really straightforward it's a
it's a lovely mixture of
um a system that we have
already a range of companies on board
that are small startups you know 12
person businesses all the way up to
as health just it really does sort of keep them for all
Andrew great to chat with you mate
and uh you keep us in the loop as that
roll out especially across telco continues
because that's the
that's a huge touch point for people
handing over their identity and
as we know losing it as well um
you're doing great work and I look forward to
clicking that connect ID button at some
point in the future as it becomes available in more
more places. Thanks
always good to chat
this is the EFT
and podcast
great
to have your company uh
Damien's along and they made how you're doing
good mate yourself yeah really good what can I do for you
it's been a while since we spoke
um I know went away
from buddy telco I went to buddy telco
and go away from optos which shocked you
did you brush them when they got sold to tangerine
not yet
I'm starting to notice a few issues with
I think with a couple of different things here and
there so I may be moving what sort of issues
because I've had we've had a few calls
that brand only mention it and I
like I was to be honest I was bum bite
but you know I'm like you created this great
second tier telco and then you sold it off it's very
strange business model but
that's I think that's that's wall street
talking is what I say it's like if it was
normal business I don't think it would have mattered but because they're
on the stock market and they needed to show
higher average revenues per user
I think they went you know what let's just sell it off
yeah so I think
there's been a few dropouts here and there
more so
and my last bill out of the blue
went from even though it says it's the same pricing
technically they changed it and
added a credit card fee to it
of one percent well they've got to
hang on they've got to get rid of that soon because that's
being ruled out isn't it I'm very happy
about that and all these businesses saying
oh we have to charge more no just add it
into your price I want
it's a bit like bags I actually go to warbs and
coals and I refuse to pay for bags I actually
grab a bag and I say well you didn't
include in your price of your food I saw someone
on tiktok do that the other day and I'm like you know what
I don't think they would argue with you
like it's a also
don't get me down a rabbit hole here but
I reckon that's one of the greatest
scams probably the wrong word to
use because think about it for
decades Woolies and coals were
spending let's just call it
5000000 a year on plastic
bags and then
they went okay we've got to get rid of those
so let's get
paper bags let's say they cost
6000000 a year and now they're making
20 million a year on paper they're definitely
making money because I've had
paper bags mate and I made
200 of them and they were pretty cheap
if I got 200 million of them
mate I'm pretty sure they'd be less than 30
cents or whatever the hell they're charging
it's a cheap. Do you know the only time I paper
paper bag and here's another tip when you
need to get cash out and go to warbs and they say
you need to buy something for now on
paper bag. Just grab a 25 cent paper bag
you've technically paid for something
I love it
I've got every tip and the trick
If I had time with a war CEO
if they said you could interview him
you've got to see the questions first I'd say
I'll interview him I'll ask whatever you want
as long as he or she answers me
how much do you spend on paper bags every year
and how much do you make on paper bags every year
that's all I want to know
so anyway but that wasn't
the reason I was calling Trev
well I mean let's just
rant what's wrong with that
why do they ask me if I want to round up
my purchase to donate to some
charity when they're the ones making millions
why don't you make the donation on my behalf
same with McDonald's
do you want to round up 10 cents
how about you just make a donation to
Ronald McDonald house because I'm spending money
with you exactly anyway mate
what did you ring for
mate oh I love
sharing my tips and tricks don't worry
but mate I'm on an old rant
I'm still with Optimism Mobile phone remember
because remember before the whole meltdown
happened years ago I was on a plan that said
if you paid $5 once
you get your data for free
well and when I complained
at the time they gave me $20 off a month
for three years to make me go away
essentially and I accepted
that time so but
in come October so I've started looking
because my sons
I've moved that little extra
data thing I've put in my son's iPad now
so when we travel around and everything
he's got data I don't have to
share don't have to connect
share and everything like that
so I still want to keep a separate data
plan for him but I'm willing to move
away from Optus but it seems like
every data plan is like
30 bucks a month so I know I'm coming
off this deal and gonna lose $20 a month
but it doesn't seem like
there's anything that's cheap out there that
is a data plan only
that can get me
leaving Optus if you know what I mean for the $5
a month I pay and I'll say
yes I'm gonna come off the $20
I'm gonna ring him again and ask for a discount don't get me wrong
but you know what I mean
there just doesn't seem to be
anything out there that's a yearly plan
or you know just cheap
you know to keep him going each month
and you've looked at a May Sim
and Kogan and Boost
I did yeah but there wasn't it was still
up there for
for data only
there wasn't what's
your number what do you want to pay
make 10 bucks a month that's it
that's all a kid needs
it's not like
so how much data
how much data should that include
oh mate
from what
he uses it'd be 10 gig
max a year a month
a month because it does
he does because what happens is
he'll leave the iPad going and all of a sudden
YouTube when we're out and about
or just chew through data all of a sudden because he
and so is the issue that you're looking for a data
only plan when so for example
Kogan has $149 a year
for 140 gigabytes
see that's
so $149 a year
that's just over $10 come on mate
yeah
like I said if I can leave Optus because at the moment
I'm paying Optus
hang on when I come
it keeps changing because I keep ringing my asking
for different discounts so right now I think I'm
paying
well 52 including that
and I come off that and it'll be
what's that 72
yeah
so I could move the thing is we also
my wife moved to boost she moved from Optus
to boost from the whole thing happened so we're on
different telcos
so I don't really want to be going
to Telstra with boost even I know
it's going to be the best option because of the
if they go down then you know I mean you don't have any
100% I mean
for me it's really
there's three telcos to choose from and that's boost
Amasim and Kogan because there's three
networks and three companies
that will offer you a 365 day
plan so Amasim
Optus network so you know the network you're happy
with the network $175
for 220 gigabytes
that's yeah but I use
I use no honey
mate you know how much sport I watch
I've just been to Magic Ground
all weekend so it's
so how my picky number
like 320 gigabytes is 200 bucks
a year yeah that probably work
and you know the other I look at it again
because I was talking to my wife about this because her
plan ended early because she used
all the data up and like it doesn't so
let's say you go on the Amasim
$199 for a year
for 320 gigabytes
well you're paying 72
so let's call it
let's call it 50
well let's call it 60 because the 12
then goes to your son's Kogan mobile plan right
so $60 a month
you've paid 200 it's like what is that
4 months worth of
even if the
Amasim plan runs out so you've used
320 gig in 10 months
so fine it's $199
every 10 months
yeah now be clear
they'll say to you that it's
it's actually more than that
it's $320 a year ongoing
but mate
you can't tell me that there's not
a phone call or something to be made to say listen
you want me to renew here or not
because you're offering this number
to everyone else why aren't you offering it to me
and also keep an eye on for example
Kogan people say to me often they often
have deals and you can
buy the top up and not
activate it for a few months when you
need it so little tricks
like that are useful
but mate
even at $320 a year
it's still
cheaper than what you're paying now
yeah okay I'll look at that
you're just going to need to let go of that long
standing customer service record at Optus
that says just give him what he wants
get him off the phone
because that's definitely in your records
well I've been on the yes it would be
because I've been with them for
well hang on I turned 41
the other day so what is that
17, 24 years
is that right if I do maths
and what mate stop
asking me this but they don't
they're not giving you loyalty the only reason they're giving you those deals
is because they're required
to grandfather plans
and because they're sick of your reign
which is great it's great that they're
doing that but they're not doing it for loyalty
true
so unless a telco
in your case Optus is willing to go
listen Damien you've been with us for such a long time
let's give you
a plan for this much
and a plan for your son
for this much and let's all
call it a day and you're on 12 months let's go
like unless they're willing to do that for you
why bother
and look the thing is
I'm encouraging you here to switch to amazing which they own
so they don't care
they're getting your money anyway
true
true
Trev you've answered
the question for me so I'm definitely going
I'm going to wait till October
until of course I'm going to call them
in September
but I must admit
it is easier just having an all in one bill
yeah but okay
let me counter that with saying mate
if you're paying once a year that's your wife
your son and you that's three
times you've got to make a decision about a payment
that's true
so it's not really a billing issue do you know what I mean
like who's looking at bills anymore
so if you go to annual
then you're in a good space
because it's three times a year
how old is your son
three
so it's a long way off but when you
when they start to have a conversation around
okay you need to
whine back a usage
I let my sons run out
at one point because I was like you know what
he needs to come to me
I get the text message I'm not topping it up
he needs to come to me and say my data's running
and I say okay let's sit down and go
why what the hell are you doing
why are you not on wife by when you're at home
why are you not doing this why are you not doing that
and by the way it costs this much money
so it's and look
my oldest is you know 19 turning 20
this year but like yesterday the car
that he drives all the time needed new tyres
and I said mate can you I can't
I don't have time I booked it in
can you take it up and use my car
and then he said to me
I asked him to ask them some questions
about why they were wearing in a certain way and he found out
and I said to him I said mate
all those things so the pressure all the advice
that's on you because you drive that car
and he goes he wrote back now that I know
how much they cost a hundred percent
because he saw the bill
and he didn't physically pay it
but he had no idea how much tyres were
you learn that once
like you don't learn that as a 14 year old
you learn that as a 20 year old the first time you need to get
tyres you're like holy crap
so a kid only learns
when they're 10 or 11 when they start
getting a mobile that hang on a minute
I can't just endlessly scroll
unless I'm on wi-fi or whatever
it might be so that
education around the bill coming up
and the text message coming
through about their plan is important my wife got it
why am I having to renew my data
every month babe because you're using it too much
and then I looked you're not on wi-fi
when you're at home what are we doing here
okay and that changed everything
it completely changed now she's
lasting way way longer on a mobile
plan so I like the
the annuals because they make you think
about your usage I think more than
even a monthly plan does
yeah and hey Trev one last thing for you go
your facebook group
I feel that the algorithms have changed
on facebook with a lot of things
in the last 34 months
what's it
so instead of
not just you but in general
so you go and post something on your facebook
and it may used to get
30 40 likes okay yeah
now you get three or four and every
second page you get if you scroll every
second thing is something you don't follow
yep or an ad
okay so when you post when people
were posting questions back in the day on
the f-team page it used to come up as a
notification and you'd see it I don't see
those anymore and I feel like
people aren't and people ask questions
unless you physically go into the
man cave there's a lot less
likes or
I've just noticed
that probably about 34 months ago
I agree and mate so the example
I'll give you and I when I posted about the tv
tool I actually tagged because it's a weird
thing to do but I don't use it often but you can
tag everyone so they do get a notification
and frankly
with respect to the audience frankly
I was disappointed in the amount of engagement I got on
that because I thought it was the coolest thing in
days but now I did get a lot of likes so it
was good but you're right you don't
you don't see the content as much
no and I don't know how you fix
that because it's Facebook driving the algorithm
mate I barely look at Facebook these
days because when I log on like
I've just opened up the page you have phone
alien footage and there's a picture of Elon and an
alien what the hell no go
away and then it's like I said even
even on personal stuff
stuff I would post let's say
a photo of my son and three years ago
it would get 60 70 likes
from different people and then of late
it's getting like I said maybe 20
if that and I'm it's not that
people and it's the same people like and
I'm not saying it's because it's my
I'm just saying in general I've noticed
more ads of more follow this page
and all this that you're going I want to see
my friends content not crap
I don't follow and I think
that's the problem with social media today
is it's all algorithmic it's like mate
I said to someone the other day
the follower
counts are now almost
irrelevant because it's very hard
to get new followers when you're on
well tiktok and Instagram are good examples
get a lot of views but a lot
people don't bother following anymore because they know
that if you just watch
something you'll you'll get more of
that so you don't need to follow
people anymore and I think what facebook
trying to do is push you content they think you'll engage
with so you'll stay on the platform longer
what I'm noticing weirdly
is they're getting more video views
so real
they call them reels as well on facebook
but reels on facebook
are doing very very well for me
in the same way they are on instagram
now not not crazy numbers
but good numbers to the
point where I now look at that and go oh jeez
okay I've forgotten about facebook and
you gosh holy crap my iPhone
foldable video got 40,000 views
on facebook and I
and like this I didn't push that in any
way so I mean it's just changed
facebook has just completely
changed and it's sad because the group
is and more
importantly was a great source of
engagement I don't know how to replicate that anywhere
else
no I don't know either like
I follow a few pages I'm a part of a group chat
but it costs five dollars a month
on Instagram with
a regular lead guy who does a lot of
content that's great but I'm
that's probably that's how it does it but it's more
of a group chat rather than a
well you can now I can now post stuff
in Instagram channels so my travel
channel and people can reply
but they can't create their own content
and the only real alternative
is Reddit and I think
Reddit is too nerdy so
the thing about the man cave is it's a bunch
of people who aren't ultimate nerds
but they're but they're their families
nerd
so you can ask a question and not
see what happens on Reddit is you ask a question
and people go you're an idiot and I hold
whoa whoa whoa whereas if you ask a question in the man cave
someone will say oh you can
do this and that and if someone says you're an idiot
someone else will say dude what are you talking about
you know so that is why I love it
that way so I I don't know
the answer to your question but I'm
I'll contemplate it put it that way
no but I thought you should know it seems like
you're not getting the engagements not there for when
people ask questions for help as much
anymore I've definitely noticed that
in general and just in general
stuff so good observation mate
thank you so much good luck with the telcos
mate thank you again and always
always good to chat to you cheers mate always great to hear from you
thanks mate mate I'll let Optus know you're
going to call
see you buddy
see ya
Damien's been on the show a lot of times
and we'll drive a hard bargain
whether it's I think Optus
and Foxtel would be his two big
Nemesis
but great feedback on the man cave
I agree 100% and I wish it was
different because
it's a great community
but I don't know how you
I don't know how you fix it in simple terms
maybe we'll find a way
if you've got feedback or advice
let me know
send me text 0447657657
thank you for listening
great heavy company
and good feedback there from Damien on the man cave
so I would love your advice or thoughts on that
I do love that community and I want it to thrive
but a difficult
place to thrive is Facebook
when it's algorithmically driven
so
yeah let me know what you think
I might jump in there the Sarbo if I remember
and have a conversation about Reddit
maybe Reddit is a place
maybe it's a better option
maybe
there's a way
we could
I don't know it's a tough one
but let's play around and have a think
and see what we can come up with
as a solution to continuing that
community driven
helping each other
vibe that was created with
the man cave over many years and thousands of people
so I'd like to continue that
I'd like to find a way so
whatever we can do any advice you've got
if you're running a Facebook group
and you've found ways around it or to push it
let me know
all hands on deck is welcome here
so let me know what you think
you can do that through the app
you can do that on the phone whatever it is
and I will talk to you next week
I think we've got some plans for next week
otherwise we'll talk to you soon
thanks folks see you soon
bye
you
you
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