An inverter is an electronic device that helps the battery power the electric motor. Batteries store electricity one way (DC), but many motors need it in another form (AC) to run correctly.
Adoption strategies refers to how automakers choose to roll out new technology—timing, product choices, and how aggressively they invest. In EV trucks, it can mean going all-in early versus taking a wait-and-see approach while learning from market feedback.
Rivian is an electric-vehicle company. In this segment, they’re saying Rivian marketed its electric truck more like a modern tech/lifestyle thing than a traditional truck.
Tesla is a well-known electric-car company. The hosts are pointing out that Tesla’s electric truck stood out with a very distinctive look and marketing approach.
Wait-and-see mode means companies hold back instead of jumping in right away. They’re watching to see whether electric trucks really catch on and become affordable and practical.
Range figures are how far an EV is expected to go on a full charge. For trucks, that matters because they often need to drive long distances or do heavy work.
The “first generation” means the earliest electric truck models that came out. The hosts are saying that early wave didn’t turn out as well as people hoped, especially financially and in how well it matched what buyers needed.
A "body style" is the vehicle’s shape and layout—like a pickup truck versus an SUV. "Variants" just means the same general vehicle is sold in different versions so different people can pick what fits them best.
"Electric era" is just a way of saying the future where more vehicles run on electricity instead of gas or diesel. For trucks, that often means new designs and new ways to charge them.
"E-Revs" means an electric vehicle that can go farther than a normal EV. It’s still mostly electric, but it has a backup system that helps extend the driving range when the battery runs low.
A "hybrid" is a car or truck that uses both a gas engine and an electric motor. The episode is saying hybrids aren’t the main focus compared with EVs and extended-range electric ideas.
A "V8" is a type of gas engine with eight cylinders. The mention here is basically saying some people still want big, traditional engines instead of going fully electric or hybrid.
"Off-road driving" is when you drive on rough dirt trails or uneven ground instead of normal roads. It can be harder on a vehicle, so the right setup matters more than it does for commuting.
A “7.3 Power Stroke” is a specific diesel engine Ford used in some older trucks. Diesel engines like this are popular for hauling and towing because they make strong pulling power.
The Ford F-250 is a big, work-focused pickup truck. The host is saying their first truck was an older diesel F-250, the kind people use for towing and hauling.
“Body on frame” means the truck’s body is built on top of a separate metal frame. This is common on trucks because it’s sturdy for hauling and towing, especially on rough roads.
The Jeep Cherokee is an SUV model made by Jeep. The podcast talks about the older “XJ” version as an iconic SUV and mentions it as someone’s first car. That’s why it’s brought up—because it’s a well-known older Cherokee.
Quattro is Audi’s all-wheel-drive setup, which helps the car send power to more than one set of wheels. The podcast mentions it because the speaker has owned vehicles with that system. It’s included as a personal reference to how those cars drive in different conditions.
Towing capacity is how much weight a vehicle can safely pull. Towing 7,000 pounds is heavy, so it’s a tough test for any truck—especially if you’re thinking about switching to an electric one.
Term
gap just to have some safety gap
They’re talking about leaving extra room beyond the bare minimum—so the vehicle isn’t working right at its limit. That extra buffer helps keep towing safer and more comfortable when conditions aren’t perfect.
They’re using a simple rule: don’t tow right at the maximum rating. Instead, leave about 20% extra capacity so the truck has breathing room for safety and real-world conditions.
They’re saying they sometimes tow for a long stretch—up to about 180 miles without stopping. For an electric truck, that matters because towing uses a lot of energy and you may need charging more often.
Carbureted vehicles use a carburetor to blend fuel and air. It’s an older style of engine fueling system, and the host is using it to explain their “old school” attitude toward technology.
Car
Polaris Ranger Kinetic
Polaris Ranger Kinetic is an electric off-road utility vehicle (a side-by-side). The host is using it for real chores like towing and hauling, to show that electric vehicles can do work too.
An electric side-by-side is an off-road vehicle with two seats that runs on electricity. It can be great for slow, practical work, but you have to think about how far the battery can take you.
Concept
EVs doing work
“EVs doing work” means using electric vehicles for real jobs, like hauling and towing. The host is saying electric can handle the task, but you still have to watch battery range.
A Jeep Grand Cherokee is an SUV, and “V8-powered” means it has a big eight-cylinder gas engine. The host is saying they still drive a gas SUV, so their opinion about EVs isn’t just “anti-gas.”
Term
Supercharge 6.2 V8
A supercharged V8 is a gas engine that uses a device to push extra air into the cylinders. More air generally means more power, so it’s a performance-focused setup.
Miles per gallon (MPG) tells you how efficiently a gas car uses fuel. If you’re idling, you’re burning gas without going anywhere, so the “MPG” joke lands.
Concept
range in the winter
In winter, electric trucks often don’t go as far as they do in mild weather. Cold temperatures can reduce battery effectiveness and you may use more energy to heat the cabin.
Charging is about whether you can reliably plug in your EV when you need power. If chargers are hard to find or take too long, it can be a problem for everyday use.
They’re saying EV trucks don’t work for everyone in the same way. What matters is your situation—like weather, how you drive, and whether charging is easy for you.
The Ford F-150 Lightning is an electric pickup truck based on the regular F-150. It mattered because it brought EVs to a truck style that lots of people already understand and buy.
The Chevrolet Silverado is a popular big pickup truck. In this discussion, it’s mentioned as GM’s other major truck platform that would eventually join the electric-truck conversation.
The GMC Sierra is a big pickup truck model line. Here it’s mentioned as one of the trucks GM moved toward after the electric-truck conversation got real.
Ram is the name used for Dodge’s full-size pickup trucks. The podcast mentions Ram as part of a larger conversation about trucks and how they’re being updated. It’s brought up because Ram is a major truck brand people recognize.
A range extender is a backup power system that helps an electric vehicle go farther. When the battery gets low, it kicks in to keep the car moving without you needing to charge right away.
A mild hybrid is a car that has a small electric assist system, but it still mainly relies on the engine. It can help with things like acceleration and smoothness, but it usually isn’t meant to be driven like a full electric car.
Term
VA
“VA” sounds like an internal code name for the truck’s engineering setup. The hosts are saying RAM changed the plan to a mild-hybrid version tied to that setup.
Car
RAM charger
RAM Charger refers to a version of RAM’s electric-truck idea that wasn’t meant to be a battery-only EV. Instead, it uses an extra power source to help you go farther between charging stops.
The Jeep Wagoneer is a large SUV meant for carrying passengers and cargo. The podcast mentions it in a rebadge/name context connected to electric or range-extender plans. So it’s mainly about branding and what name gets used, not a detailed review of the SUV itself.
Term
kilowatt pack
They’re talking about the size of the EV battery. Bigger battery packs usually mean more range, but they also add a lot of weight.
They’re talking about how heavy an electric truck would be—around 10,000 pounds. That kind of weight changes how the truck drives and how expensive it can be to run.
They’re saying Ford did the launch event in Texas. It’s a place where a lot of people buy and use trucks, so it makes sense for an electric truck reveal.
Turbo lag is a short delay you can feel when you step on the gas and the engine doesn’t instantly respond. The host is saying the electric truck felt immediate, unlike a typical turbo diesel.
The Tesla Model 3 is an electric car that people often use as a benchmark for EV pricing. The host is saying the promised low price didn’t really happen the way people expected.
“Range” means how far the truck can go on one full battery charge. The host is saying the range is high mainly because the battery is huge, not because the truck is especially efficient.
This is the truck’s weight. Heavier vehicles usually burn through battery energy faster, so weight is a big reason EV range can be harder to achieve efficiently.
The Tesla Cybertruck is an electric pickup with a very unusual shape. In this episode, the host says it mattered because it was designed from the ground up as an EV, not just modified from a gas truck.
“Clean sheet” means the car was designed from the ground up, not modified from an older gas-car design. The host thinks that helps EVs fit batteries and components better without as many trade-offs.
“No compromise packaging” means the designers didn’t have to force the EV parts into a layout meant for something else. The host is saying these trucks fit the battery and other components in a way that avoids big compromises for space or usability.
The Rivian R1T is an electric pickup truck. It’s designed from the ground up as an EV, and that helps it work really well off-road while still feeling surprisingly normal to drive on the road.
A 48-volt system means the truck uses 48 volts for parts of its electrical system instead of 12 volts. Using a higher voltage can make it easier to power things without needing as much current through the wiring.
Ethernet here means the truck uses a computer-style network to share information between its electronic modules. That can help the vehicle move data faster for modern features.
A subframe is like a reinforced metal “frame within the frame” that supports things like the suspension. The idea here is that in a crash, you might be able to replace just damaged sections instead of rebuilding the whole structure.
Concept
innovation usually costs a lot of money initially
New technology usually costs a lot at the beginning because companies have to build it, test it, and get it working reliably. The host is using that to explain why early EV-truck innovations can be costly before they become mainstream.
LED lighting uses light-emitting diodes instead of traditional bulbs, allowing faster response, better efficiency, and more design flexibility. The host lists it as an example of technology that first appeared in more expensive cars before spreading to wider markets.
Infotainment is the car’s main screen-and-audio system—things like music, maps, and phone features. The host is saying these features often start in expensive cars before spreading out.
“Next generation” means the newer version coming after the current one. The host is basically saying electric trucks need a better, more practical version than what we have today.
“Six-figure trucks” just means really expensive trucks—over $100,000. The host is saying early electric trucks cost so much that only a small group could buy them.
The Maverick is a smaller Ford pickup truck. The host uses it as a comparison to say the electric truck would be easier to park and drive in the city.
Topic
yet another model team moment
This sounds like the host’s way of saying “this is another big milestone.” Here they’re implying that a more affordable electric truck could change how cars are made and who they’re for.
LFP is a type of EV battery. It’s often chosen because it can handle heat and stress well, and it may behave better when it’s cold. The host is basically saying the battery choice matters for winter performance.
Jim Farley is Ford’s CEO. In the segment, he’s talking about a future Ford electric truck and using a fun comparison to explain how ambitious it sounded. It’s more about the company’s messaging than a driving or engineering detail.
The Ford Falcon is a Ford car name that has been used for different versions over the years. In the podcast, it’s used as a comparison—calling something the “Millennium Falcon of Trucks.” So it’s mainly a fun reference to the name, not a detailed explanation of the car.
The Ford Explorer is a mid-size SUV, meaning it’s a family-sized vehicle with room for passengers and cargo. In the podcast, the name is used as a reference to “Ocean Gate Explorer,” not as a serious car review. So it’s more of a quick mention than a deep dive.
Cab-forward means the driver’s seat area is pushed closer to the front of the truck. That can make the truck’s layout more efficient and sometimes helps with airflow.
Swiveling seats are seats that can turn around. The idea is that instead of only facing forward while driving, you can rotate them to work or hang out like you’re in an office.
Term
folds out
A fold-out desk is a built-in desk that pops out when you want to use it and folds away afterward. Here, it’s mentioned as part of making the truck cabin function like an office.
A remote office means the vehicle is designed so you can work from inside it while stopped. The host is describing a truck concept meant to act like a mobile workplace.
A touchscreen is a screen you control by touching. The host is saying the truck will probably use a screen for functions instead of having separate physical knobs.
Mega castings are huge metal pieces made in one shot instead of lots of smaller parts. Using fewer parts can make the truck easier to build and sometimes easier to repair.
The Chevrolet Avalanche is a GM vehicle with a clever cargo setup. The hosts mention it because it used a mid-gate-like feature to help carry longer items.
The GMC Sierra EV is a pickup truck that runs on electricity. The podcast talks about liking it and mentions the bed size, meaning how much space it has for hauling. It comes up because it’s an electric truck option designed to still feel like a practical pickup.
Car
Tello
Tello is a small-truck idea from a startup. The pitch is that it’s compact like a city-friendly truck, but it can still open up more space for cargo using clever interior/cargo features.
A mid-gate is a fold-down section in the middle of a truck bed. When you lower it, you can move cargo more easily and make the truck’s space work like it’s longer.
Term
cat-forward design
They’re describing a truck layout where the driver’s cabin sits farther forward. That helps the truck feel shorter and easier to fit in tight spaces.
Term
crush up there
They mean the front of the vehicle has parts that intentionally crumple in a crash. That helps slow down the forces on the people inside.
Pre-production trucks are early versions made before the truck goes on sale. They help the company test things in the real world, and the final truck can still be different.
Multimodal capability means the truck can do more than one kind of job. The host is saying it doesn’t have to be perfect at everything—just good across the common things you’d use a truck for.
Concept
small platform
They’re talking about smaller electric trucks built for everyday routes. The idea is that if you use it for the jobs it’s best at (and rotate between tasks), it can work well without needing to handle everything in one go.
“Range” is how far the electric truck can drive on one full charge. If the range is high enough, you can do your work without needing to stop and charge as often.
GVWR means the maximum total weight your truck is rated to handle. That total includes the truck itself plus people and cargo. If you exceed it, you can stress the truck and make towing less safe.
Cummins is a brand of diesel engine. Diesel engines are often chosen in heavy trucks because they make strong pulling power for towing. Here, it’s being used to describe a truck that’s meant for heavy work.
A slide-in camper is a camper that fits into the back of a pickup truck. It adds a lot of weight to the truck, which can change how safe and capable the truck is. The point here is that people may not realize that before buying.
A receiver is the hitch mount on the back of the truck where you attach towing gear. It’s the part that lets you hook up a trailer or other accessories. The speaker is saying many owners never really use it.
A hitch is the connection on the truck that lets you attach a trailer or other towing equipment. It has to be rated for the weight you’re pulling. The speaker’s point is that many people don’t really tow at all.
The Ford F-150 is a very popular big pickup truck. It’s often used like a family vehicle, especially in versions with more rear seating.
LIVE
Hello, everyone, and welcome to The Drive Cast.
I'm Joel Federer, Director of Content and Product at The Drive.
And I'm Andrew Collins, Executive Editor at The Drive.
And I'm Caleb Jacobs, Senior Editor at The Drive.
And The Drive Cast is our weekly podcast, giving you an inside look at the biggest stories,
controversies, and people shaping the automotive industry.
Today, we're talking about electric trucks.
For a hot minute, it looked like the immediate future was going to be electric, with a quick
and hard shift away from fossil fuels.
Automakers were swapping gears and gas for batteries and inverters.
But some moved quicker than others, and everyone went about it differently.
It's been interesting to see different adoption strategies play out, right?
Ford made a normal-looking F-150 that happened to be electric.
GM went all in on big battery mega trucks, Rivian built a lifestyle brand around a tech-forward
product, and of course, Tesla gave us the chrome dumpster of doom.
Plenty of other automakers stayed in wait-and-see mode, too.
From literal heavy weights with insanely huge battery packs and eye-popping range figures,
to industry-leading innovation and out-of-the-box thinking.
Just like gas-powered trucks, the boom of the first generation of electric trucks brought
forth an arms race of who can do what and how.
But the history books will show that the first shot at electric trucks didn't play out how
everyone expected.
Arguably, these were money-losing vehicles that, by many, are viewed as a flop and false
start.
Now, a crop of next-gen EVs are taking shape, and of course, because this is America, trucks
are at the forefront and leading the charge, no pun intended, with a bevy of body-style
variants set to follow.
But these next-gen electric trucks are vastly different than what we've seen to date, and
arguably will change the industry.
From the price and capabilities to their size and even how they are built, we are about
to witness a possible revolution as automakers scramble to fend off the Chinese, appease
America's appetite for trucks and SUVs, and push into the electric era.
Then there's the outliers and noise, the resurgence of V8s and the lack of hybrids, the supposed
extended-range electric vehicles known as E-Revs, and even a back-to-basics gas-powered idea.
So today, it's all about electric trucks, what happened, what's coming, and does this
all even make sense.
By the way, if you like what we're doing here, do us a favor and hit us with a five-star
review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
It really does help get the drive-cast in front of more people.
Okay, let's go.
All right, so real quick, let's just give context for the listeners as to us and our
backgrounds, you know, where we live, how we use vehicles, trucks and SUVs, use cases.
I just think it'll help people understand a little more context for our lifestyle and
our viewpoints on how we come at some of this stuff.
Sure.
So I live in kind of a rural suburban adjacent area.
I'm two hours from New York City, but I'm also surrounded by woods.
I use trucks for standard dump runs and home depot runs, but I also do a lot of off-road
driving.
I actually work as a part-time guide over at a local off-road training school.
So I spend a lot of time thinking about the science of off-road driving specifically,
and I will say electric trucks, it's a unique experience.
We can come back to that a little bit later.
Yeah, and I live in the Missouri Ozarks about 18 and a half hours away from New York City.
So, you know, a little bit further than Andrew, but yeah, I mean, trucks are everything here.
That's what everybody drives.
That's everybody's first vehicle.
That's what they learn to drive on.
And so that's really just like the vast majority of my experience, you know.
My first vehicle was a 7.3 power stroke, you know, Ford F-250, old body style.
Man, I never should have gotten rid of that one, but that's the world that I come from, right?
So, that being said, I do have experience with electric trucks as well.
And I think my background and regular old body on frame, you know, archaic type stuff
definitely helps inform what I think about these rigs and what they do well and what
they don't do so well.
I also live very far from Andrew and the New York City.
I'm sure people know from previous podcasts.
So, I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
We have a family cottage up north.
And so, you know, we tow boats.
We drive in very cold weather in the winter.
We all run winter tires and looking how complete it is.
Gotta love them.
And so, you know, I got two kids and a wife.
We were hauling around soccer gear and whatever, but really the tone of the boats,
driving in the cold, the snow, et cetera.
My first car was a Jeep Cherokee XJ.
So, like, the definition of an iconic SUV.
We own a lot of Jeeps.
We've owned a lot of Quattro from Audi.
But everything we own, you know, nothing my wife or my dad or I own at this point,
doesn't tow 7,000 pounds.
You know, we have boats that weigh 5,000 pounds.
You need a 20 percent, you know, gap just to have some safety gap there.
And so, I do a lot of towing, usually short distance.
Just, I really do want to put a context here.
You know, typically the distance that we're towing the boats is short,
and that can be up to about 180 miles of towing at one shot.
So, that's the context on the towing aspect and the weights and everything like that.
And like Andrew, I've done a lot of off-roading in gas and EV powered vehicles.
So, with all that context, real quick, before we get into the topic,
I want to just give everyone some context on our personal feelings on EVs and the marketplace
as a whole.
Andrew, let's circle back to you.
Yes, absolutely.
I like EVs. Full stop.
I am an old school guy, borderline like Luddite when it comes to technology in general.
I own, I think, four carbureted vehicles, right?
Maybe five right now.
But I absolutely appreciate the benefits of electric,
both in terms of emissions and just simplicity.
It has a lot of practical benefits off-road too, frankly.
And so, I'm pro EV, like broadly speaking.
I just think I like my gas, my old school gas as well.
All right. And Caleb?
Yeah. So, for my part, like probably the most memorable experience that I have
with an EV is I tested a Polaris Ranger Kinetic.
They built that electric side-by-side.
And we use it, our family owns a campground here.
And I had a canoe trailer that was down the road a ways, down the dirt road, and the wheel fell off.
And so, we actually used zip ties and a t-shirt to make a wheel bearing,
a makeshift wheel bearing for that canoe trailer.
And we towed the canoe trailer back with that electric side-by-side.
It was great because, you know, you could just go like at a steady two miles an hour, right?
Like it was the perfect vehicle for the job.
But that actually has been one of my favorite side-by-sides that we've tested.
And the reason I think that's even relevant to this conversation
is because we used it to work hard, right?
I tested that for quite a while, honestly.
We used it during flood cleanup.
I hauled a ton of brush, logs with that thing.
So, in the sense of EVs doing work, they're absolutely capable of it.
But it's just kind of like what's been brought up already.
Range tends to be a big issue.
Whenever you're using it at one property, that's not such a problem.
I could go a week without charging that side-by-side.
But if you need to be towing anything for 100 miles or more,
then you run into problems.
So, all in all, I also am impressed by EVs,
what they're capable of doing, 4F150, lightening, as we'll get into here in a little bit.
But I also don't believe that everything is set up perfectly
for those to work for the majority of people where I live.
Obviously difficult for me to speak for anybody else that lives
somewhere that's more urban or suburban.
I really am just quite rural in general.
So, different strokes for different folks, I guess, is where I land.
Yeah, and it's funny because if you read the drive and you're a commenter,
you would think everyone that reads the drive is a commenter,
thinks I hate cars that have gas engines when I own a V8-powered Grand Cherokee,
which, by the way, that's a life choice.
Most Grand Cherokees are not V8-powered, by the way.
There is no question that there's gas running through my veins.
At the same time, I drive something like an SLAV,
an SLAV Blackwing with a Supercharge 6.2 V8,
and I'm sitting there idling at a bus stop, and I'm like, this is kind of dumb.
Like, I almost feel obnoxious.
Like, I'm just killing the planet and drinking 91 premium
at the rate of zero or negative miles per gallon.
It's crazy.
So, I've driven a bunch of EVs that are just so capable, on-road, off-road,
out-lightening, I've towed with these.
They're really cool, but to kill this point, depending where you live,
range in the winter can be an issue for some people.
Charging can be a real issue for some people.
So, I think that it's not a one-size-fits-all situation,
especially in the current timeline.
It's a use-case situation.
I mean, I really like EVs, and I really like gas-powered cars,
and I think each has a place in the grand scheme of things.
So, with all of that said, and the context on our backgrounds real quick,
let's get into the topic at hand.
So, which of you boys wants to get into the quick history rundown
of these early electric trucks where we had had and have?
I think I can run you down pretty quick.
So, basically, and we'll definitely want Caleb to chime in with the
F-150 Lightning launch experience.
But I feel like that was kind of...
F-150 Lightning was the moment where people were like,
oh, electric trucks are going to be real.
I mean, Rivier R1-T was around too, but that had the novelty of,
what is this weird brand?
When Ford was doing an F-150 Lightning, people were like,
okay, electric trucks are happening.
And I do think that kind of egged on GM to get us to the Sierra and Silverado,
and of course, ultimately RAM, which we'll circle back to.
So, yeah, so we had that.
We had RAM promising to build a super high range, the Rev
that I remember seeing at New York Auto Show a few years ago.
And that ended up, I don't know, I don't want to go out of order here,
but basically that was totally scuttled.
And that's now a range extender.
And I think it's mild hybrid now, right, Joel?
Is that right?
It's a whole mess.
So, like, they brought the VA back and was a mild hybrid,
but then they're killing the mild hybrid because, you know,
car guys don't want a mild hybrid.
We want a simple V8 with whatever.
Caleb is literally shaking his head, like, I think he's dead.
Because I don't even remember what the range extender one is called anymore.
Like, it's been changed.
Yeah, it's bad.
So now it's called the Rev, right?
So the range extender was originally called the RAM charger,
and the Rev was the electric one.
And now the RAM charger is going to be the 3RUSUV Wagoneer rebadge,
and the Rev is going to be the range extender.
And none of us, no one ever drove the electric Rev.
The electric RAM, it was DOA.
We were going to have a 500 mile version.
It was going to be, like, a 250, seven kilowatt pack.
It was going to easily weigh like 10,000 pounds.
There's no way a thing wasn't going to weigh 10,000 pounds.
Crazy.
It never got off the ground.
I looked at, you know, the Rivian R1-T and the Cybertruck
and all these things that debuted and or launched.
But the Ford F-150 lightning, an electric F-150
that looked like an F-150 and it drove like an F-150,
that was a moment, right?
Because America runs an F-150.
It's the best selling vehicle in America.
It's not even a contest.
And so when Ford said, we're doing an F-150 this electric
and we're calling it an F-150,
that felt like a stake in the ground of like,
this is the future, guys.
This is happening.
This is happening.
Definitely.
And like whenever, so I was part of that press launch.
So like we showed up, they did it in Texas.
I believe it was San Antonio.
And so like you show up in truck country
and it's like, there you go.
You have this lineup of trucks that look like F-150s,
just like kind of different.
And they had all of these tests lined up for it.
You know, obviously you do your normal on-road driving,
but they had an off-road course there.
They had like several different trailers,
you know, set up for you to tow.
And I remember I got to a stoplight,
getting ready to go on to the interstate.
And so the on-ramp was uphill.
And I think I had 7,000 pounds behind me.
So like, you know, a decent load, not the max,
but you know, pretty high.
And you know, I just romped it.
And it was like diesel, but with no turbo lag.
It just went.
And I was like, okay, here we go.
So from that moment on, man, I was pretty convinced
that we were on to something,
but the market had different plans.
All of these trucks were expensive.
All of them.
The lightning was supposed to start at 40 grand.
I don't think one ever arrived for 40 grand, ever.
It was like the Model 3 that was gonna be 35 grand, right?
Yeah.
Well, it was, but it was the pro
that could only be sold to fleets, right?
And then they were like, actually,
actually we're not going to do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was like no time and they were 60 grand.
Yeah.
So they were, so the average lightning,
the lightning you wanted was 75 grand first off.
The lightning you bought was 95.
Okay.
First off.
Okay.
Second off.
So these were all expensive.
The Rivians, they launched at 70 grand.
Those Bosch motors, they launched with four Bosch motors
per truck.
They were about $5,000 a piece.
There was like 20 grand of motors in those original trucks
that launched originally like $70,000 for your account
for the battery pack.
They lost their butts on those first trucks.
And then they did the price increase and it was backlash.
They had a grandfather of everybody in,
but now the Rivian you want is basically,
let's call it 90 to 130 grand.
Okay.
And then you've got the GM Twins or Trio, Trio, Trio,
the Hummer, the Sierra and the Silverado.
These trucks have 205 kilowatt hour battery packs.
These things go up to 470 some miles of range,
but they weigh 9,000, 8,000 pounds.
Like they have so much range, not because they're efficient.
They have so much range because they have a really big tank.
They are inefficient vehicles of the highest caliber,
which is not the future, right?
Like that's the opposite of what we're trying to do here,
but they have a lot of range and capability.
The two things that I want to mention before we move on
are what I would consider success.
The Rivian and the Cybertruck, and just hear me out
before you roll your eyes about the Cybertruck.
I am not a fan, okay?
But these two vehicles innovated and paved a path forward.
And the reason I say that is because they are a clean sheet,
dedicated vehicles with no compromise packaging,
and I want to explain that.
The Rivian is so capable off-road.
It is so surreal on-road, which I know Andrew is shaking his head,
yes, and you all just can't see this.
He agrees with me.
And it is the R1T specifically at the truck
is the most innovatively packaged modern vehicle
money can buy no matter how much you spend.
It is the most innovatively packaged vehicle.
And it shows truly what you can do with a clean sheet EV
if you set your mind to it.
And then on the other end of the spectrum,
you have the Cybertruck.
Just hear me out.
It runs a 48-volt system.
It runs Ethernet.
It runs CAN bus systems that I'm sure
someone's going to be more knowledgeable about than me.
These are innovative things that most modern mainstream cars
don't have.
And more importantly, more importantly,
it modernized how you build cars.
It is, I believe, the first truck that has mega castings,
which means there are just like three main or four main
components to that truck sub system,
like beyond the metal exoskeleton dumpster looking awfulness,
that bolt together and glue together,
and that you can remove one, add one back.
It's built to be when you crash it,
you can actually replace just certain parts of the subframe stuff
that glue back on or bolt back on.
It's really cool.
And so those innovative things that I just mentioned
from both these things, we are going to see play out
in other vehicles we're about to talk about.
So they laid the ground game in what we're going to see.
And innovation usually costs a lot of money initially.
It just is what it is.
Look at anything.
Well, there's LED lighting, touch screens,
Bluetooth, infotainment, all that stuff.
It came to expensive cars first.
And so certain things, the Rivian, the Cybertruck,
there are things about these things that are not failures
and they paved the path forward.
Now, where are we going on that path forward?
Well, and that's where it's easy to dunk on the startups
that go nowhere, right?
That have these wildly different ideas
and don't have either the engineering
or the financial backing or the design
or whatever to make it happen.
Everything that we just talked about right there
are some big name players that fully bought into this.
And so that's why I think people can be forgiven
for believing that electric trucks were imminent
is because you had Ford, GM, Tesla, and Rivian
who is no longer a startup, right?
Those are all like real players in the space.
Those are the ones that you're going to see
continue on building electric trucks
into this next, we say next generation.
It's really a new iteration of what electric trucks
probably should have been in the first place, right?
So they had to launch those six-figure trucks
so that way they could actually afford to put these out
even though like you mentioned Rivian
lost a whole bunch of money.
But none of those were obtainable by average people.
That's what we're looking forward to
with Ford's $30,000 electric truck, right?
This one that seems to be smaller than a Maverick,
one that you could actually buy, park in a city,
get around easily.
That is supposed to be yet another model team moment
that changes the way cars are built
and Ford has put so much into that.
If you'll remember our friends at the Autopian,
David Tracy was chasing this prototype down the road.
It was in full camo
and he was pretty much getting up in the driver's face
like, we saw it, we saw it.
But that truck had a QR code that you would scan.
It would take you to like a launch page
or whatever on a Ford website.
And they know that this is a big deal.
They know that once they unwrap this thing
that there are gonna be people who are interested
and arguably even those who aren't into any other EVs.
And I think that's the part of the market
that Slate was able to grab hold of, right?
You know, like Luddites, like Andrew and maybe like myself.
You know, it's somewhat common for my friends
that I don't necessarily talk about cars very much with
to reach out and say, hey, what do you think about this?
What do you think about that?
But very few times have I had as many people come to me
as they did about Slate.
Those that see a super, super simple single cab,
you know, like build it into an SUV if you want it,
wrap it yourself, you know, hand crank windows.
Like I have a buddy who that is him to a tee.
It doesn't matter if it has 150 miles of range
or whatever the heck, right?
24,950 starting price before destination.
So obviously that'll end up being a little bit more.
But I think that the response to Slate
should be a huge encouragement to Ford
because there are people who won't buy into a new startup
automaker because they don't have the recognition.
Many more people, if I had to guess,
would buy into a Ford knowing their history with trucks, right?
So to me, those are the two standouts,
but they of course aren't the only ones that are coming.
So the Ford's $30,000 electric truck, right?
First off, that is one of like five, don't quote me on that,
something like five vehicles that are gonna come
on that platform, right?
They're just starting with the truck.
It's gonna be about the size of like a RAV4 inside,
then it'll have a very small bed.
It's gonna start about 30 grand.
Unclear if the one you want is gonna be 30 grand.
Let's, you know, very big asterisks.
Unclear the mileage and range out of this truck
and different Barry packs and all these things.
I believe it's gonna be LFP
that does change factors for the cold.
But this is gonna be a small truck.
This is not, this is gonna be the size of,
just a little bigger than the slate.
Like this is not a lightning replacement.
And what I really wanna talk about there is
the lightning is a workhorse.
People use that to save their kids to soccer.
They think they need this big truck.
It's got this massive cab now.
You got this leg room even Caleb can fit behind me
if I'm sitting in the driver's seat.
Like it's not a small truck.
He doesn't fit in a lot of people's garages, this will.
But the lightning was supposed to get a second gen truck.
It was originally gonna arrive in like 2025 and 2026
and 2027.
At one point, Jim Farley CEO Ford called that truck
the Millennium Falcon of Trucks,
which I'm not sure if Mr. Farley's seen Star Wars.
Yeah, that's not a good.
That was a really interesting comparison.
I gotta be honest.
But like, I think it was one of those things of like,
look at this bucket of bolts.
We're gonna.
This is the Titanic of EVs, baby.
Probably not the best.
This is the Ocean Gate Explorer, baby.
Probably not the best qualifier.
But what was interesting was this was gonna be a big truck.
This was gonna be a future forward.
It was probably cab forward, I believe,
based on the patents we saw.
We're talking about like they patented swiveling seats.
They patented like a desk that folds out.
They were looking at this being like a remote office.
This was gonna have a front that you could configure
with different shelving units.
Again, we saw all the patents for these different things.
This new $30,000 truck is nothing like that.
Let's just, you know what I mean?
Like this is gonna be a simple back to basics truck.
It'll have a touchscreen, of course,
but like, you know, I doubt it's gonna have
climate control knobs because even a Maverick
doesn't know, right?
Wouldn't be surprised if it has a screen out of a Maverick.
So it's gonna be a different truck
than what we were had and are gonna get.
It's not gonna be something that's towing our boats.
And also the way they're building it,
they're looking to revolutionize the assembly line.
They, that's what their words to be clear.
And I'm not, Caleb's laughing at me.
But the interesting thing is,
and Andrew wrote a whole story about this
in the skateboard situation,
like three lines merging into one.
But the point where I was going with this is,
they're taking a play out of the Tesla Cybertruck book.
This thing's gonna use mega castings.
It's gonna be cab forward and it's gonna have
like three or four main components
that all bolt together so it's simpler to build,
is simpler to repair, and it's a simpler truck.
Like this came from a Cybertruck.
And I think that's really important to give credit
to the rolling chrome dumpster for, I guess.
You guys are like looking at me like I'm an idiot.
Do you guys think there's any chance
that the Ford truck will use a mid-gate,
like the Sierra Silverado EV have,
or like the Chevy Avalanche had?
No, that's way too expensive for this price point, no way.
Dang it, cause that would be awesome.
I was so impressed with that in the Sierra EV.
I was like, dang, if you got a little bed,
this is the perfect supplement, all right.
Cause that's always my thing with these tiny trucks,
like these Maverick size trucks.
It's like, the bed, it's good to have a bed.
And yes, it's nice to be able to carry around filthy things.
But like, the bed is less than six feet long.
It's just kind of, I don't know.
I'm glad you brought this up, Andrew,
because something that Caleb alluded to,
that we didn't get to was a startup called Tello, T-E-L-O.
Tello is exactly what you're talking about.
It is a very small truck.
The standard bed is like 60 inches long, okay?
But it has a mid-gate and it will fold down
and then with the seats in the right,
and it'll allow you to extend that bed
without the actual bed extending to like eight feet.
And it's supposed to be a truck that is all,
it's kind of like the Mini Cooper,
like there's no front end almost, right?
It's cat-forward design, just crush up there.
And basically it's supposed to hold four adults
the size of like me, you and Caleb.
And then have a bed behind it.
And it's supposed to have rapid fast charging,
like a really expensive EV.
It's supposed to be able to,
I don't remember the exact range off top of my head.
I don't remember any of the actual specs.
We don't actually have, by the way, all the specs yet.
Like this is not in production,
but they are looking at,
but they're looking at like it coming later this year,
hopefully, like we've seen it.
They've got pre-production trucks rolling around LA,
seen photos of it.
So that's, and this is the same size
like that slate and forward situation.
When it comes to capability,
especially, and this is especially relevant
to electric trucks,
I don't mind if it can't do everything at once,
if it has multimodal capability.
Like I don't need to be able to haul five people
and 1,500 pounds worth of lumber.
I can, I'm fine if it can do a lot of cargo and one person
or a lot of people in no cargo.
Like it's very, very rare that I'm doing everything at once.
As long as like, if you're going to have a small platform,
if you can, if you can like kind of cycle between jobs,
that's how I think you get a winning formula
with these small trucks.
I want to go to Caleb,
but I did look up the Tello specs
that I didn't have off top of my head.
Four seconds, zero to 60, 350 miles of range,
all wheel drive, 40 grand.
Wow, that's, that's impressive.
Just when everybody wants on a pickup truck.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
The thing, you know, Andrew, you're talking about,
it doesn't have to do everything all at one time.
What you have to remember about truck customers
of which I most certainly am one,
is that like, they're probably just going to do it anyway.
You know what I mean?
Like the idea that like people in the cab
actually affect payload,
like there's going to be a lot of little boys
that don't really heed that.
So it's funny because you have those
that like totally know everything.
Like they know the door jam sticker by heart.
They can tell you GVWR, no problem.
And then there are those who are like,
what are you talking about?
Google says I can do this and also this.
And they assume that it means at the same time,
oftentimes those people end up buying a Dooley Ram
with a Cummins and they put the 6,000 pound
slide in camper in the bed.
But again, that's not a knock on truck drivers.
That's that I am one of you, okay?
It's just people overestimate.
I think part of the issue is that, you know,
a lot of these truck owners,
they're taking their kids to Huck,
they're taking their kids to Sucker.
They're doing what I'm doing, right?
Most of these guys aren't even ever towing.
Their receivers probably never seen
an actual hitch put into it.
And I think that the issue here is that
people aren't buying what they need.
They're buying what they want.
They want a big F-150.
They feel safe, right?
They've got all the room in the bed
for the hockey gear, the soccer gear, whatever.
And they've got all the space in the back.
Gas is expensive.
I don't know.
That's gonna be, that's kind of what makes me
so fascinated by Slate and what they're gonna do
because they have the aesthetic, like absolutely nailed.
It's like that is old school truck, like perfectly.
And it's not that expensive.
It looks cool, exactly.
But critically, it's little.
So it's gonna be really interesting to see.
I feel like it's a put up or shut up car.
Like if you're like, I want an old truck,
like bro, there it is.
Like that's your old truck.
That's a modern truck, but yeah.
Caleb's got kids.
I got kids, right?
Like by the time you install rear seats,
like your bed's gonna be now tinier, right?
And I'm not sure my kids are gonna be
on a daily basis excited and jazzed
about the idea of me having to flip forward
the front seat so they can get into the back seat
in and out of school constantly every day.
And like functionality wise,
it's not a great family car, it feels like to me.
But like to your point, it looks cool.
And Joel, you're touching exactly
on why people didn't use pickup trucks
as daily drivers 30 years ago
because it doesn't make a lot of sense
until we made everything crew cab
and everything like actually a family car
because like as we're saying,
like a lot of people just wanna,
just wanna look like they're driving a truck.
I don't even know if there's a Costco by where Caleb lives.
And that's not like a cracker joke.
I live in Walmart country.
We have Sam's Club, baby.
Yeah, right, right.
So you're about to prove my point, okay?
You get in a Ram 1500, an F-150,
a Hummer EV is actually changed the game
because it's got the four wheel steering, right?
And it's a little shorter than those bearer trucks.
But like an F-150 or a Ram 1500,
the parking lot's littered with them.
And I gotta be honest, it's a pain.
Like that's a full three point turn truck.
It's kind of a nightmare.
And I look at these guys that own these things.
I'm like, you drive this everywhere?
Do you need to?
Do you want to?
You don't find this to be a pain?
Does it fit in your garage?
Dude, I got a crew cab, long bed, F-350, all right?
It's a big truck.
And I drove it to the airport.
I got there early, you know,
there was nobody beside or behind me.
I get back a few days later,
I got cars right beside me
and no kidding, there's a jag right behind me.
Like across the aisle,
but there was not enough aisle
for me to turn that thing around.
It was an easy eight point turn.
And eight point turn.
I'm going to include that in the title of this podcast.
Eight point turns.
See, but you're not going to have that situation
in a slate, a tello, the Ford's upcoming EV.
Like these are smaller trucks.
And by the way, all of these small trucks,
let's just, let's say you don't want to start
with the slate because it's too basic.
And let's say you don't want tello
because it doesn't look conventional
and you don't trust it.
I don't know, whatever.
So let's say you want the, you know, you know Ford,
you're like, I'm going to buy a Ford, I trust Ford.
So let's say you buy this $30,000 EV.
If it has a four foot bed and you can fit
it has the interior of a RAV4 and you can get it for,
let's call it 35, 38 grand.
I think the average market price of car right now is 52.
I think that just came out this week
or last week or whatever.
So yeah, you could put your kids hockey gear in the back
and it wouldn't put in, it wouldn't smell.
You can put your kid's soccer gear in the back.
You're going to fit your kids.
Is it going to have that for 50 year like room?
No, but could you fit in your garage?
Yeah, is it going to be paying the buy Costco?
No, I think that it'll be really interesting
to see how the market responds
to these new smaller cost effective pickup trucks
in an era where the average car costs 50 grand.
The average truck costs 66.
And by the way, that's not EVs.
That's just, just, just cars.
It would be great if this little EV moment
kind of like railroadered his back full circle
to smaller, more practical vehicles.
The cost less money.
Wouldn't it be like ironic, heavily ironic?
It would, it would be very funny.
But I mean, I'm for it.
I think it's great.
I got a deep pull for you.
All right.
Canoe.
You guys remember canoe?
Oh my God.
Dude, I was so excited about canoe.
It was going to be so cool.
They were going to put a stinking thing on the moon.
You talk about a truck that can also be a van,
that can also be a this or a that.
Dude.
So there for like a hot minute, okay?
They were like headquartered like less than an hour
from my house.
I was driving back from the airport.
Maybe that same time I got stuck in the parking lot
and I passed a canoe prototype.
And I was like, those are going to be so sick.
Of course they never came to be, but.
So for those of you at home, that's spelled C-A-N-O-O,
not canoe like the boat.
This was a little like pill shaped vehicle.
Basically, yeah, that could be a pickup truck.
It could be converted to a van.
It wasn't there.
And Walmart was going to buy a bunch of them,
speaking of Walmart country.
And then what was the actual death?
They like, they just ran out of money or something.
Like, how did they actually?
They blew through management
and they changed their business model at one point.
Like they were going to be like least to own or fleet only.
Like they started out with a really great concept.
They didn't move quickly.
They ran, burned through a bunch of cash.
They had a bunch of management shifts
and they had a bunch of business like actual plan shifts.
And as soon as they started burning through CEOs
and they changed the business model,
I was like, and it's dead.
Yeah, too bad.
It's quite novel looking, but yeah.
So a couple of other things I want to talk about real quick.
So let's, we did mention this in the intro.
EREVs, extended range electric vehicles and hybrids.
So hybrids are obviously having a moment
if you look at the sales data, right?
Ford sells a grip of power boost.
Toyota has got a tundra that's a hybrid
that we've had a whole podcast about reliability
about Caleb and I did.
EREVs, we do not have any EREV pickup trucks.
EREVs are extended range electric vehicles
basically the idea is, it's like the Chevy Volt.
You've got a really big battery pack.
Let's call it 100 kilowatts, 100 kilowatt hours, right?
And then you have a, in the sense of the RAM,
you have the V6 we all know,
Pennestar iconic engine at this point,
hilarious out of the hood,
but that Pennestar V6 does not connect to the wheels,
doesn't drive the wheels.
It provides power to the battery access generator.
The battery then sends power to the electric motors.
There is no clutch, there's no connect, et cetera.
So now we've got RAM that's delivering the REV,
which to be clear is no longer an electric truck,
it's an EREV, that's coming.
We have the next gen lightning supposedly coming
with an EREV powertrain
that is going to be a quote, air quote freight train
and have like 750 miles of range and tow all the things.
And then GM has said they're working on hybrids.
They were not real clear if they're hybrid hybrid
or like EREV hybrid, my God tells me hybrid hybrid.
And so, and then we've scout,
scout with the buttons and the knobs
and the iconic name and design,
they've got electric vehicles and then they have EREVs.
And now everyone, 80% of the people that reserve the EREV
and so they're going to do the EREV first
if they actually produce a car.
I think hybrids are amazing.
I think that is like conceptually
the most logical like setup, EREV I really like.
I guess I'm kind of conflicted on EREV actually
because I'm like, it seems like a maintenance nightmare,
like a motor that only occasionally runs like
in my world of maintaining power equipment
and ATVs and quads and stuff,
it's like the engines have the hardest life
when it's like run briefly and hard
and then put away for months.
So it's just like, oh God, there's such a pain to keep alive.
So I worry that that will like rear its head
in the maintenance of these machines,
but we'll see, we shall see.
Caleb?
I don't know.
I don't know how I feel either, you know,
like with the scout, okay?
I think they nailed a lot of parts of that truck, right?
Like the vibe of it,
I do really think that they got right.
Design is perfect, yep.
Design is sweet.
Do whatever you were sending me
because you were at the event, right?
Were they unveiled that?
Dude, you were sending me pictures
of the bench seat in the front.
I was like, yes, oh, that's it, that's it.
And I don't think that, you know,
an EREV takes away from that.
I just, I have a gut feeling they are going to regret
not offering at least a regular hybrid.
I think that a lot of people who even know
what an old scout is are gonna be like,
I don't want anything that's, that runs on electricity.
Maybe not, I don't know, but...
Yeah, I agree.
I think, yeah, mild hybrid on that maybe would have,
no question, it would have sold more quickly.
There's let's be real, no question.
I gotta, I gotta just say,
I agree with Andrew's initial knee-jerk reaction.
An EREV, it seems like a great idea.
It's gonna run forever.
When I run out of juice, I have a battery.
I can tell forever, whatever, but like a couple things.
One, we back-worded the math on the RAM thing
with the penistar V6 and the EREV.
And I think once the juice runs out,
we math it to something like, I don't know,
18, 19 miles per gallon, right?
Like it's gonna get what a penistar V6 gets on the highway,
but now you're dragging a hundred kilowatt-hour
battery pack along, that's dead.
First off, so now it's just as efficient
as you just bought a regular V6 RAM.
Second, the duty cycle, what a nightmare, right?
This is not a volt, this is a pickup truck.
And you're starting to stop and the engine cold
and all that stuff, how long is it warm up?
How often you change the oil, all these things.
But most importantly, the complicated nature.
It's not a regular hybrid, it's an EREV.
And it's kind of like the worst of all worlds.
Like I'm carrying two power trains with me now, guys.
Not one power train that's integrated together.
I'm carrying a gas engine, so when I run out of juice,
I have a generator built in
because I don't have to carry like a hundred
generator in my bed.
What if you just had a big enough battery
and didn't run out of juice
and we had a better charging network?
What if we're focusing on the wrong problem?
Like what if trucks just charged fast and we had chargers?
Quit getting logical, stop it.
No, over the course of the last 20 minutes,
I have been like, oh, EREV kind of makes sense.
I was like, no, no, I don't like this anymore.
Well, dude, just think of it, right?
Like Tom and Joey and all these guys are gonna be like,
hey, come get in this new, it's electric,
but it's not, you know, hop in
and they's gonna take him for a ride,
he's gonna do his zero to 60 launch
and they're gonna be like, wow, this is amazing.
And then that pinnastar V6 is gonna kick on
and it's gonna be like, what's that?
And he's gonna say, oh, that's just the battery charging.
That's a cool thing.
That's a cool, I got a pinnastar.
But no, dawg, do you think they're ever gonna even charge it?
Like are the good old boys gonna charge it?
God, this was, you know, funny you should mention that.
This has even been a problem with volt people.
I remember even Matt Farah was smoking tire.
He was telling me somebody he knows had a volt
and had owned it for years and never charged it.
He'd borrowed it and he was like, they were like,
oh yeah, the car's been driving like shit for years.
And he was like, yeah, it's, there's no power.
Like you're using, you're running off
like the backup generator.
I was like, so yeah, it's, I, yeah.
I think mild hybrid is great.
E rev, I'm not so sure.
Let's, let's, let's wrap it up here with some final thoughts.
So I think we went into this, okay?
Just the context, like the genesis of this episode was,
you know, we had the confluence of slate.
We had the confluence of tello nearing production this year.
Ford has been now talking about his $30,000 truck
that's coming and, and, you know,
we've watched everything else is happening.
It's just time to address it.
But the question, like the working question was,
do electric trucks make sense?
Do EVs make sense for trucks?
And so I think that I want to come full circle
and just kind of have each of us address
our thoughts on, on, on that.
Okay. So this is, this is simply it.
Okay. As someone who acknowledges that whenever
they have range electric trucks tow phenomenally,
they have great weight distribution.
They, they, they just go.
They've got so much power.
All of those things, right?
The fact that Ford, Chevy and Ram
are not trying to make their heavy duty pickups electric
tells the story.
The fact that there is no electric super duty
or Ram HD or Silverado Dooley electric version coming out,
I think is a pretty good sign that even they know
it's not where it needs to be yet.
Capability wise, performance wise, sure, right?
But it's not time for that yet.
And whenever you're talking about the types of customers
who are buying those, you know, it's like, I,
I hear somebody that drives a, you know, an F-450
that's just out of warranty.
You know, they complain about, you know, price on this
or that, I gotta, you know, like diesel truck
too expensive to maintain too, but you're not,
you're not replacing a wheel motor, right?
And nobody is doing an electric solid rear axle
and mass like that yet.
Even though such things exist in concept,
I think that tells the story that yes,
they can do truck things and they can do it really well,
but they can't do it in the circumstances
that normal true truck people tend to use them in.
Air quotes, right.
All right, all right.
Andrew, what's your, what's your thought?
What's your take?
I'll speak to the off roadiness a little bit
because Caleb was talking like commercial related stuff.
So a lot of one thing people reference a lot is,
oh, you got that low end power, which is instant torque,
which is great for off roading.
And yes, but I think a off road electric advantage
that people don't think about enough
is the low speed control.
A lot of things that we teach when we're rock crawling
is you're almost, you're really driving with a break
because low range in a gas vehicle
will naturally pull you ahead.
Now with an electric truck,
you're able to control the amount of power
with a level of precision that is significantly higher
than a vehicle with a torque converter or a clutch.
You're not like slipping,
you're not trying to kind of mess with multiple inputs.
You're just to have one pedal and you vary
once you get good at it, of course,
takes a little getting used to,
but the level of control off road is absolutely incredible.
And the gimmicks like Hummer's crab walk
and like rear wheel steering actually do pay dividends.
I was absolutely shocked.
We took a Hummer EV at our tight trails here in New York.
And this is not desert, this is very tight stuff.
And we got that thing through
because it was able to walk diagonally through trails.
And, you know, counterpoint, it's like,
well, it wouldn't need all these fancy tricks
if it weren't the size of a shipping container,
but it does make use of its unique powertrain.
I mean, having the back wheels be able to steer
is really genuinely useful in an off road setting.
So I think off road electric future is bright for sure.
I actually just want to say,
I love how we're wrapping this up because like, you know,
Caleb came from the commercial work duty cycle angle of it.
Andrew came at it at the off road duty cycle of it.
And so I'm going to, I'm going to split the difference, right?
I'll come into for like my life, right?
Like taking the kids to soccer practice,
towing boats short distances, living in the winter.
And I think where I come from as I'm listening to both of you
is they make a lot of sense,
but it's determined by the use case.
To your point, Caleb, they don't make a super duty
or an electric heavy duty Silverado EV, Silverado
because they know that it's not going to do
what those guys need to do of like hot shot,
40,000 pound towing of car hauler down the road.
It makes no sense.
Absolutely makes no sense.
And look, if you're buying an F 150
because you're towing 8,000 pound boat,
500 miles in a shot on the regular,
it doesn't make sense for a lightning.
Like legitimately it doesn't
because you're going to spend so much time charging
all the time, it makes no sense.
And also if you're fast charging only,
you're not going to save a ton of money
like compared to charging at home.
Like that's the use case, right?
So, but for someone like me, our family cottage is,
it's a real distance, it's 204 miles.
It's three hours flat plus or minus depending on traffic, right?
So that's a serious distance, basically a Rivian
or any of these vehicles to be clear actually
that we're talking about right now that were or are on sale.
They can on one charge leave my house and get to the lake,
right?
I can charge home, I can leave here,
I can get all the way to the lake,
I might be either close to dead or have extra charge
depends on the vehicle.
And then I'd plug in at the lake with a charger
and charge up and then I can drive home
like after the weekend.
And I don't tow long distances often.
So like the lightning was the single greatest vehicle
I've ever hauled the boats out of the lake with
because it's like to a different point,
I just took my foot off the break and just so good, right?
Caleb is so good.
Like it just, it had a 5,000 pound boat behind it.
And I literally just took my foot off the break
and I just, just a smidge of throttle
and it's just right out of the water.
It was just no wheel slip, no nothing, no for low.
No, no, no, it was just a simple.
And so my, my thought is,
I think the F-150 Lightning didn't get a good chance.
I think there was a slot of slam pieces
and a lot of things of like,
oh, it only tows on our miles
if you put all those things to, oh, you know,
and it's like, are you towing that often?
Like, are you being on, like,
are you just taking your kid and your F-150 to soccer practice?
Would you like to pay 13 cents a kilowatt hour
instead of $5 a gallon, $3 a gallon, whatever it is?
Like, I think that if people had thought about
what they were doing with their F-150,
like I think there was a study out there
it was like 7% of F-150 owners.
I'm gonna get this wrong, don't email me.
I mean, you can email me, but 7% of F-150 owners
either use their beds or tow with them regularly.
It was an axial study like a year or two ago.
I don't remember anymore,
but it was like a single digit number
for F-150 owners, it was either towing or bed.
But the point I'm making here is that a lot of people,
when you're selling almost a million trucks a year,
are using these F-150s like cars and SUVs.
And a Lightning or any of these electric trucks could do that,
but that's not what their market is.
And when you read a slam piece,
that you're gonna lose all your range in the cold
and you're not gonna be able to tow 500 miles in a shot,
it's scary.
You're reading on the internet.
So I think the answer is yes, they make a lot of sense
based on a use case.
What is your use case?
And it does not make sense for every use case
and for every person.
And these next trucks are gonna have a very different use case
and a very different set of qualifications
that make sense for different people.
And it'll be interesting how that plays out,
which I'm sure we're gonna have this topic again.
That's it for this week's episode of The Drive Cast.
Thanks to political and automotive industry whiplash
that led us here to discuss all of this to Andrew and Caleb
for their time and insights on this important topic.
Thanks to our editor Tyler Mark
and thank you for listening.
We'll be back next Wednesday.
Be sure to check out thedrive.com
for our full coverage on this topic and a whole lot more.
Yeah, and subscribe to one of our fine newsletters.
They're free by the way.
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok
and subscribe to us on YouTube
where we've got a lot of cool videos coming up.
We'll see you next week everyone.
Bye.
Bye.
About this episode
Electric trucks are framed as the latest battleground in the EV push—after an early wave that many view as expensive, money-losing, and overly ambitious. The hosts compare automaker strategies: Ford’s “normal” F-150 Lightning approach, GM’s big-battery mega-truck bet, Rivian’s lifestyle angle, and Tesla’s polarizing Cybertruck. They also debate what’s changed for next-gen EV trucks, including pricing, construction, and “outlier” concepts like E-Revs and even a V8 comeback. Personal rural/off-road/towing experiences shape the practicality discussion, especially around winter range and charging.
For a moment in time it looked like a hard shift to the electric future was taking place. When America's best-selling vehicle, the Ford F-150, is available with an electric powertrain, there were signs. But various automakers took different paths towards the electric future, and by many accounts history might show the first round of electric trucks were a failure with large price tags, sales volume that quickly cooled off, and what resulted in massive losses for automakers.
Now the next-generation of EVs are taking shape, and of course, because this is America, trucks are at the forefront. But this time things are going to be different. From how these electric trucks are being designed and built to how much they will cost, what they can do, and even what they offer in terms of features.
But do electric trucks even make sense? The Drive's Director Of Content And Product Joel Feder, Executive Editor Andrew P. Collins, and Senior Editor Caleb Jacobs break down the electric truck segment, what happened, where we are today, and what's coming next.
Stories mentioned in today's episode:
Ford F-150 Lightning EV Is Dead, Next Gen Will Have Gas Engine Backup
GM Delays Full-Size Electric Truck and SUV Redesigns: Report
Ram Gives Up On Its Electric Truck
2026 Rivian R1T Quad First Drive Review: When Too Much Is Just Enough
2024 Tesla Cybertruck Review: Impressive Engineering Hamstrung by Hubris
Spied: Ford’s $30,000 Electric Truck Caught Next to an Expedition
Slate’s $24,950 Electric Truck Gets More Range, More Tow Capacity—and 450 More Pounds
I Rode in Slate’s $24,950 Electric Truck. It Didn’t Feel Like a $24,950 Electric Truck
Pour One Out for Canoo, the EV Startup That Dared to Be Different
00:00 Intro
08:59 - Quick history lesson
13:58 - Rivian R1T and Tesla Cybertruck paved the way into the future
16:58 - Ford's $30,000 electric truck
17:39 - Slate
19:41 - Lightning replacement
22:31 - Telo
27:11 - Today's trucks are big
29:41 - Canoo
31:06 - EREVs are coming
36:51 - Do electric trucks make sense?
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