The crew starts with a chaotic pre-show delay, then veers into social-media fame, moving to “90211,” and a fun debate over whether people know what Sacajawea dollar coins are. They also riff on the Tooth Fairy “ethics” and the idea of receiving dollar coins instead of spendable cash. The main sports talk is IndyCar at Barber: a largely boring, no-yellow race that still had a strong broadcast, plus a deep argument about why passing is tough (two-stop strategy vs. tire/fuel windows). Christian Lundgaard’s drive, Scott McLaughlin/Polo’s dominance, and Ray Hall’s podium are highlighted. They close by discussing F1’s Suzuka issues and the need for better overtaking systems, then look ahead to Long Beach.
The guys don't know what a Sacagawea coin is, and Thim's daughter's tooth fairy has some questionable practices. Then the guys dive into Barber, F1's new cars, and more.
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"Unfortunately, it was the lowest-watched IndyCar race of the season. It doesn't mean it's bad because it was still almost a million viewers."
IndyCar is a major type of race in the U.S. where cars are open-wheel (like Formula-style cars) and they race on different track types. Saying “IndyCar race” just means it was one of those big IndyCar events.
IndyCar is the top open-wheel racing series in the United States, run on a mix of oval tracks, road courses, and street circuits. When someone calls a specific event an “IndyCar race,” they’re talking about that series’ weekend event and its on-track action and TV audience.
"So, for a race where you had Polo start from the top and basically just run away with it, we got to see a lot of the midfield battles and things like that."
That’s the racing happening in the middle of the pack. Even when the leaders aren’t changing much, midfield cars can be constantly passing each other.
In racing, “midfield battles” are the fights for position among cars that aren’t leading the race. These battles often provide the most overtaking action, even if the front of the pack is relatively settled.
"I started 11th and finished 11th. I started on a tire on the primary. So a harder tire and was surrounded by alternate."
A harder tire usually lasts longer, but it may not grip as well as a softer one. That changes how fast you can go and when you need to pit.
A “harder tire” is a tire compound designed to last longer but typically offers less peak grip than softer compounds. That tradeoff affects lap times, how often you pit, and how you can defend or attack.
"The team did a good job in, in pit lane. Our pace was 11th."
Pit lane is the area where race cars come in for service during the race. Teams use it for things like changing tires and making strategy calls so they can keep the car fast.
Pit lane is the dedicated lane where teams enter to service the car during a race. In many series, pit stops can include tire changes, refueling, and adjustments, and timing them correctly is critical to track position.
"And the tires that we have now, like they're super temperature sensitive and the weight of the car and all this sort of thing, you get to that like six, seven,"
They’re saying the tires are very sensitive to heat. If the tires get too hot (or don’t stay in the right temperature range), the car loses grip and becomes harder to drive fast.
The speaker is emphasizing that the current tires are highly sensitive to temperature. That means performance and grip can drop quickly if the tires overheat or cool down, strongly influencing race pace and passing attempts.
"in a lot of ways, in a league of his own.
Obviously, Polo was the benchmark for the day, but considering where Christian started
in, in 10th and the fact that, you know, he made his way through starting on the,
on the harder tire and until the pit stop was, was going to give the 10 car run for its money,"
A pit stop is when the car comes into the pits during the race. Teams use it to swap tires (and sometimes refuel), which can strongly affect how fast the car is.
A pit stop is when a race car enters the pits to change tires, refuel, or make adjustments. Timing pit stops is crucial because it determines track position and how long a car can run on a given tire set.
"Is it becoming a problem to not have yellows?
Yes, it's not awesome."
“Yellow” is the caution signal in racing. It means there’s a problem on track, cars slow down, and teams often get chances to adjust their strategy.
In racing, “yellow” refers to caution conditions signaled by yellow flags (or yellow lights), usually due to an incident on track. Yellow periods slow the field and can bunch cars up, affecting pit strategy and race outcomes.
"After warm-up, it seemed that the field was very split and unsure what it was going to be. And shortly into the race first in, it was like, oh, oh no, this is, this is actually a hard race."
Warm-up is the practice session before the race. It helps drivers and teams figure out how the car feels and how the tires are working, which can affect how confident everyone is going into the race.
Warm-up is the session right before the race where teams and drivers dial in setup and tire behavior. Performance during warm-up can reveal whether the field is confident or uncertain, and it can hint at whether the race will be calm or chaotic.
"...because Firestone, this tire was different than last year. But it was told to be more durable."
Firestone is the tire supplier mentioned here, and tire construction/compound changes can significantly alter performance and durability. When a tire is described as “different than last year,” teams often need to recalibrate setup and strategy.
"...this tire was different than last year. But it was told to be more durable."
“More durable” means the tire should last longer and not wear out as quickly. That can let teams go farther between pit stops.
“More durable” means the tire is expected to maintain performance for longer by resisting wear and degradation. Durability affects how long teams can run a compound before grip falls off, which ties directly into stint length and pit strategy.
"...they gained, you know, 26 seconds by not doing the extra stop and the three stoppers have to push to close that 26 second gap."
“Three stoppers” means teams that plan to pit three times. Since they stop more often, they usually have to drive harder between stops to catch the teams that pit less.
“Three stoppers” are teams planning to make three pit stops during the race. Compared to two-stop teams, they often need to push harder in their stints to make up time lost to the extra stop(s).
"...that was an incredible race. That was, that was one of the best barber races we've had. And I would say the tire situation was comparable..."
The “tire situation” is about how the tires wear out and how long they stay fast. If one tire type lasts better, it can strongly affect who can attack and who has to back off.
The “tire situation” refers to how tire wear and performance evolve over a stint, including which compound is faster and how quickly it degrades. In races with multiple strategies, tire behavior often determines whether drivers can push consistently or must manage the car.
"He was, he was due to come out with a clean stop. He was due to come out right on him."
A clean stop is a pit stop where everything goes right—no delays and the car leaves quickly. In tight races, that can be the difference between staying ahead or falling behind.
A clean stop means the pit stop goes smoothly with no delays, mistakes, or issues during the tire change and service. In close races, the difference between a clean stop and a compromised one can decide whether a driver gains or loses track position.
"Yeah, it must be nice. And then of course, Ray Hall closing out the podium, huge, huge story, big deal, very cool."
The podium means finishing in the top three. It’s a big deal because it shows the car and team performed at a very high level.
The podium is the top three finishing positions in a race. Finishing on the podium is a major performance milestone and often reflects strong race pace, strategy, and execution under pressure.
"qualifying, like obviously did a great job in qualifying starting third, I think, third, fourth,"
Qualifying is the part of the weekend where drivers try to set the fastest time. Your qualifying result usually decides where you start the race.
Qualifying is the session where drivers set their starting position for the race. In many series, starting closer to the front can reduce traffic and improve strategy options, especially on tracks where passing is difficult.
"There's just so many people pouring over data and looking at every single thing you guys do to a car."
They mean the numbers teams collect from the car. Engineers use that information to figure out what’s going wrong or what’s making it faster.
“Data” refers to the telemetry and analysis teams use to understand car behavior and driver performance. The speaker mentions teams “pouring over data” to find what changed, implying that racing performance is often diagnosed through measurable signals.
"Like how can there just be like, yeah, we don't know. It happens in F1 and they have infinitely more people and resource to pour over data."
F1 is Formula 1, the top tier of open-wheel racing. They’re saying even in F1, where teams have huge budgets, sometimes things still feel unpredictable.
F1 (Formula 1) is referenced as the benchmark for how many people and resources can be devoted to analyzing performance. The speaker uses it to argue that even with F1-level resources, sometimes results still defy easy explanation.
"it's a good reminder that this is, it's not a spec series. Like we can talk about how it is all you want on paper."
A spec series is where everyone’s cars are basically the same. The speaker is saying this isn’t that simple—teams still have ways to make their cars faster.
A “spec series” is a racing category where cars are standardized and teams have limited freedom to modify performance-critical parts. The speaker argues this series isn’t truly spec, because teams still have proprietary engineering and development work that affects performance.
“Execute” in racing means carrying out the race plan effectively—managing tires, timing pit strategy, and making the right moves at the right moments. The speaker credits the driver’s execution for turning a good qualifying position into a podium finish.
"And then he had Malukas coming up on him, those last few laps. Malukas had like 80 seconds more push to pass in the last three laps and did what he had to do to hang on to it."
Push-to-pass is a race feature (common in IndyCar) that gives drivers a limited power boost for a set time or number of activations. It changes how late-race overtakes happen because the driver can deploy extra performance when it matters most.
"...Dennis Hauger, fast six in St. Pete, right? Obviously, he did a year of indie lights, but ultimately a European background, right?"
Indy Lights is a stepping-stone racing series. Drivers use it to gain experience before moving up to the top IndyCar level.
Indy Lights is a developmental open-wheel racing series that feeds drivers toward IndyCar. Time in Indy Lights can help drivers learn oval/road-course racing in the American ladder system and adapt to IndyCar-style cars.
"...which is a huge departure from a street course for him and St. Pete. You would think that those two would show up to Barber and would excel there..."
A street course is a track made from regular city streets. It’s usually tighter and has less room for mistakes than a purpose-built race track.
A street course is a circuit laid out on city streets, typically with narrow lanes, walls close to the racing line, and less runoff than permanent tracks. That usually increases the importance of precision and can make overtaking harder.
"What is it about Barber? Do you think that like is, is so hard for these guys to adapt to, ... Barber is, I think, the most physical racetrack on the calendar"
“Barber” is a race track in Alabama. It’s known for being tough on drivers—lots of sustained effort and physical strain.
“Barber” is shorthand for Barber Motorsports Park, a road course in Alabama known for being physically demanding on drivers. The discussion focuses on why IndyCar drivers struggle to adapt there compared with other circuits.
"Barber is, I think, the most physical racetrack on the calendar, ... and your race pace is two seconds faster than it was last year."
Race pace means the car’s consistent speed during the race. It’s about how fast they can keep going lap after lap.
Race pace is how quickly a car can consistently lap during the race, not just in a single qualifying run. Here, they’re saying Barber’s race pace improved by about two seconds versus last year, which they connect to increased physical demands.
Cautions are when the race slows down because of something on track. If there are no cautions, drivers have to push hard the whole time.
Cautions are periods in racing when the field slows down due to an incident, typically controlled by a safety car or yellow flags. The segment notes “No cautions,” implying the drivers had to sustain full-intensity effort for the entire race.
"Kirkwood pulled off a top five at a track that Andretti's not been great at lately"
A “top five” finish means the car finished in the top five positions. It’s a sign the team had a good race.
A “top five” finish means placing fifth or better in the race. In IndyCar, that’s a strong result that often reflects effective car setup, strategy, and driver execution.
"And that Polo one from pole had fastest lap and led the most laps and all that stuff got maximum points."
Fastest lap means the driver set the quickest lap time during the race. Some championships give extra points for it, so it can matter even if you don’t win.
Fastest lap is the quickest single lap in a race, and many series award bonus points for it. It’s often a sign the car had strong pace even if the overall result wasn’t perfect.
"And that Polo one from pole had fastest lap and led the most laps and all that stuff got maximum points."
Pole is when a driver qualifies fastest and starts first on the grid. Starting up front usually makes it easier to control the race.
Pole position is awarded to the driver who qualifies fastest and starts the race at the front of the grid. Starting from pole often provides cleaner air and track position, which can help a team maximize points.
"But I think they did a really good kind of damage limitation sort of weekend."
Damage limitation means you don’t get the result you wanted, but you still try to avoid making things worse. In racing, that usually means protecting your points and staying in contention.
“Damage limitation” describes minimizing losses after a difficult race weekend—like avoiding a total points wipeout. In championship terms, it often means finishing where you can, staying out of trouble, and converting what you can into points.
"But you know, there's a problem when the FIA on the Monday put the statement out saying, we hear everyone, we're going to take these weeks off to look at solutions and potentially make some changes to address what is happening."
The FIA is the organization that runs and regulates major racing series. If they release a statement about changes, it means they’re trying to fix something that’s been going wrong.
The FIA (Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile) is motorsport’s governing body that sets rules and oversees safety and sporting regulations. When the FIA issues statements about “solutions” and “changes,” it usually signals rule or procedural adjustments to address a recurring problem.
"And look, everybody that wants to sit here and **** on DRS. And I know that some people are like, I think this is better than DRS because DRS was the most artificial thing ever."
DRS is a Formula 1 system that helps cars pass by reducing drag. When it’s allowed, it makes the car faster on the straight so overtakes are easier.
DRS stands for Drag Reduction System, a Formula 1 feature that temporarily reduces aerodynamic drag to make overtaking easier. It’s activated only under specific conditions (like being within a set distance of the car ahead) and is controlled by the driver within those rules.
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That’s the podcast network they’re part of. It’s like a sports section inside SiriusXM where similar shows live.
This refers to the sports-focused podcast network within SiriusXM. It’s essentially the platform/brand that distributes and groups sports podcasts.
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This is Off-Track.
Okay, good start.
Do we start?
I haven't started yet. Hang on.
Okay, now I started. What's up, guys?
Alice has not spoken a word yet in like 20 minutes.
Just another, just another, well, no, no.
We had Alex and I had nice chats while waiting on you.
Well, even when I was on the first time and my sound wasn't working,
you contributed nothing to solving the problem by refusing to speak.
Neither did Tim.
Tim didn't say anything either.
I could see him trying to speak.
Tim was literally, no, he wasn't.
He was changing his voter registration.
And you just stayed silent.
Listen, listen, I'm sorry that we're annoyed that, you know,
we schedule this and you show up late, but whatever.
Hey, I'm also annoyed because the reason I'm late is I was getting ripped out
by my neighbor because my dog was barking or brings out last night
when we were out to dinner apparently.
So that's fun.
I thought when you moved, you moved to one of those like estates
where it was like miles from anybody, like a horror movie setting.
He's in Canada.
Yeah, we did. This is Canada.
Oh, you're in Canada.
We're in a condo.
Okay.
And I just, yeah, I forgot because you guys saw our friend Darcy and Jair,
our friends Darcy and Jair last night.
No, Tim.
Again, saw our friends Darcy and Jair that you went.
Really? Because I saw them before you saw them.
I told Becky.
I did tell Becky.
Which I only learned last night.
But I was like, what is going on?
He's with Darcy and Jair and Sharna.
I just didn't even mention it.
Well, yeah, I was with my good friend Sharna.
Do you know her?
Yeah, we've met.
Yeah, I know.
Went and saw the show last night.
It was hilarious.
It was a very good show.
For those of you who don't know, we're talking about Darcy and Jair.
Darcy Michaels and Jeremy Baer.
They're on tour right now.
If you're on TikTok, you know them.
Yes, basically.
We've had Darcy on like three times on this podcast
and we've only been able to air one of them.
That is accurate.
Darcy also featured in both Alex and Mai's weddings.
Their current tour is coming to an end.
But if you are on Instagram, or sorry, TikTok,
you probably already know them.
But if you're not, go look them up
and go try to figure out what their next tour is
because the show is hilarious.
And it is funny because they're the level of social media famous
where other famous people love their stuff on social media.
And it's funny to hear the stories of people
that slide in their DMs that are very famous people
who really like their stuff and come to their shows and everything.
So they're reaching that level.
I feel like fame in general has just been turned on its side
because I read Rob Lowe's book a few years ago
and he talked about how there used to be a huge distinction
between TV famous and movie famous.
And it was like the movie famous people would look down
on the TV famous people and then those divisions broke down
and it all became one.
And now it's like there's the TikTok famous
and the traditional famous,
but one starting to matter a lot more than the other.
It certainly is a lot more attainable than it used to be
for a majority of the world.
Whereas before, yes, it was a very elite group
that had that level of fame.
And now it can be done by pretty much anybody with a phone,
which is quite funny.
Elite group that was really, for the majority of time,
based out of Beverly Hills,
which is now, speaking of attainable, where Tim is moving to.
So pretty crazy that fame has trickled down to influencers
and Beverly Hills lifestyle has trickled down to Tim Durham.
I am roughly 100 feet away from the Beverly Hills
sitting limit signs in my new apartment on the right side.
Is it your zip code 90211?
It is, I did not get the 90210.
Yeah, but that's your one digit off
like the most famous and wealthy zip code.
That feels like an important,
that feels like an important off though, right?
Because they do it based on geography.
So you're right there.
It's not like you're on the wrong side of the tracks
from zero to one.
It's very much one adjacent.
I think the takeaway here is that the watch worked.
Wearing the watch that I was wearing to different apartments.
And the $2 bill, the replacement $2 bill work.
That is key.
Yeah, I don't think, did you ever update everybody
that you did in fact go and get a $2 bill?
I forget if we talked about it on the show or...
I think I said I was going to and I did.
Yeah, and then I got the next department
that I saw right after that.
I'm also curious as to why the teller at the bank
wasn't more shocked that this random dude in his 30s
came in and asked for a single $2 bill.
Would it make more sense if he was in his 20s?
No, but I feel like if he was in like his 70s,
I feel like some old dude that like maybe
has a coin collection or something.
$2 bill is a big deal 40 years ago?
Bigger than they are today.
I don't think they were ever a thing.
But more he was just like a collector or something like that.
I could see some old dude shuffling into the bank and...
They're used to some stuff with me.
Tooth Fairy at our place gives out Sacajawea dollars.
So on the Tooth Fairy's behalf,
I may have gone to that bank
and gotten 20 Sacajawea dollars before.
What is a Sacajawea dollar?
Yeah, I'm going to use...
You guys don't know, it's the dollar coins.
It's like the gold dollar coins with Sacajawea on them.
You guys don't know what Sacajawea dollars are?
No, I'm not in the wrong.
Yes, you are, you are 100%.
James, you have a good excuse.
Yeah, James, I'll give it to you.
It's not called a Sacajawea dollar.
It's just called a dollar coin.
I know what that is.
There's dollar coins,
but they have different iterations of them.
I'm talking specifically about the ones with Sacajawea on them.
Yeah, no, no.
We're definitely the minority here after that whole spiel.
I promise you are.
I promise you are.
This is not like the dishwasher thing.
Dude, I am not from that country,
and I can tell you even still,
you are 100% the minority about knowing offhand
what a Sacajawea dollar is.
I just can't wait.
I'm going to...
The responses are going to be great.
Go straight to Twitter at Ask Off Track.
Actually, James...
At these guys, at these guys.
No, don't do that.
I mean, you can do that
because I like being proven right.
So put up a poll, Tim, put up a poll right now.
Actually, put up a live poll,
and we'll check it at the end of the recording,
and we'll see.
Set up a poll for 30 minutes.
People are usually doom-scrolling right now
on their first break at work kind of thing,
or maybe they're commuting.
Who knows?
Although it's funny though,
that weirdly reminds me that while packing up the house,
I came across this box that was in and amongst the
trailer full of boxes of stuff that my dad dropped off one day
after I got the house, the first plate, like the first house,
that my mom had just had collecting in the basement.
And in the box, and I had kind of forgotten,
my dad used to buy like coin sets for the kids.
And I have this random box of like Canadian coins,
and a couple of British coins, and things like that.
They're like nicely cased in like these little leather books
and things like that.
I'm apparently a guy with a coin collection
that I didn't even know I had.
Now I'm going to have to start going down
and rabbit hole research.
That is a probably the widest thing you've ever said.
Yeah, it could very well be.
My nephew Owen has apparently gotten into coin collecting.
And he's seven.
So mind you, he's got a little more reason to do it
than you do, you weirdo.
I'd suck at you, weird boy.
So my brother was going through some of my grandpa's old stuff,
and he found this old Czechoslovakian coin with Stalin on it,
like a 50th anniversary.
It was like for Stalin's 75th birthday.
Now my grandpa was CIA.
So there's a very good reason for my grandpa to have had that
in his desk.
But my brother wasn't even thinking about it.
My nephew took it to like a coin collector expo
and was showing it off.
And I was just like, you know, in retrospect,
that might not be one of those things
that you want to like advertise that you have.
You should be celebrating this necessarily.
Because I showed Ked a picture of my nephew holding a Stalin coin.
She's like, question.
Why? Why is that?
And I was like, oh, I didn't even think about that.
That's a good point.
It reminds me of a certain picture that I have of us from my mom's house.
So, Alex, playing a nice little board game.
Playing a nice board game, dotting a piece of memorabilia from back in the day.
I just thought of something though.
So these Sacajawea dollars, we're back to Sacajawea dollars.
So it's a dollar coin, which, you know, it's legal tender.
But like most people don't spend them, right?
So you're saying the tooth fairy at your house delivers Sacajawea dollars.
Isn't that kind of a move?
Because like Hazel is not going to want to spend those.
So like she can't spend her tooth fairy money.
What's the point?
I mean, she could definitely spend those.
Yeah, but sometimes when they get lost,
sometimes the tooth fairy just reuses them if she happens to know where they're stored.
Wow.
You know, well, sometimes teeth fall out late, James.
Sometimes teeth fall out right before bedtime, James.
Okay.
Oh, Alex, make that face for me in eight years.
Okay, bud.
We're going to check in.
Oh my God, Tim.
The tooth fairy in your house literally steals from your daughter to pay your daughter.
That is...
Oh, we're expecting magical cryptid that comes in and steals children's teeth to suddenly have ethics?
Yes.
No.
Yes.
This thing's sustenance is children's teeth.
She's replacing the teeth with money.
She's exchanging money for goods and services the same way you love to do.
As somebody who had to have a dental procedure, she's charging minimum amount for a tooth.
Do you know how much it costs to get a tooth implanted?
We are not getting a fair deal from this fairy.
Wake up.
Well, I mean, you're not because she's just stealing them now.
She's just reusing the money.
I'm disappointed.
Let's see where we are.
By the way, 10 votes.
10 votes, 70%.
Yes, so far.
They know what Sacajawea dollars are.
Calm down.
I'm going to retweet this just so they'll try to base my numbers.
Okay, so the tooth fairy is a crook.
Does Santa Claus also take her gifts and toys and things?
She takes the milk and cookies.
No free lunch.
Do you just eat whatever she gets from the Easter Bunny?
No, but the Easter Bunny does steal lawn equipment.
Interesting.
You have a weird existence.
I made that last one up.
Okay, so let's try and think.
We had a race.
We should probably talk about that.
Well, we didn't have a race.
Alex had a race.
James had a Chad.
I had a watch.
It was a very nice watch.
You wore it to help you get a watch to watch the race.
Watched on TV.
So, Tim, why don't you give us your take on the weekend?
Unfortunately, it was the lowest-watched IndyCar race of the season.
It doesn't mean it's bad because it was still almost a million viewers.
And it was much madness.
Exactly.
So, still fine.
But arguably, my opinion is it was definitely the most boring race of the year.
But give us the viewers take on it there, Timbo.
I will say, I think that it could have been a lot more boring than it was.
And this is going to sound like I'm brown-nosing,
but you guys know that I don't really like James.
I thought Fox did a very good job of focusing on where the action was.
So, for a race where you had Polo start from the top and basically just run away with it,
we got to see a lot of the midfield battles and things like that.
So, I will, and I actually even got a call from my stepdad, Larry,
asking me to pass along a compliment for how well I think Fox did.
Thank you, Larry.
I'm going to echo that statement in what was by far the most boring race of the year.
I thought it was probably our best broadcast of the year.
Like, there was some stuff going on behind the scenes and just kind of like
how it works and how it flows, you know, and the stuff that you guys don't see at home.
For us, it was a really good show.
And that was always something that one of my old bosses used to say is there's such things,
bad races, there's no such thing as bad broadcasts, right?
Like, so you can have, sorry, there is such a bad broadcast,
but just because it's a bad race doesn't have to be a bad broadcast.
So, I thought that was a good kind of example of that because, yeah, objectively,
it was a pretty dull race, but I thought the show was still pretty good.
Alex, how was, how excited was it from your seat?
It wasn't, it was, it was super, it was super boring.
There's not a whole lot to say.
I mean, obviously everyone knows that I don't really like that place in the first place.
I started 11th and finished 11th.
I started, I started on a, on a tire on the, on the, on the primary.
So a harder tire and was surrounded by alternate.
So I lost a couple of spots at the start.
And then it took me 90 laps to get back those couple of spots.
The team did a good job in, in pit lane.
Our pace was 11th.
There was no dramas and it was just a 90 lap lapping session.
Essentially, I didn't pass a single car aside from the opening lap.
I didn't get passed once.
I didn't even really see another car.
So you were kind of like on an island.
You weren't just like in a train.
I was kind of within like a second and a half, two seconds of Joseph at the end
when he was saving fuel and power was a second and a half, two second behind me
on the alternate when I was on the prime.
So there was a couple laps there where it was, you know,
some ebb and flow and like maybe something would happen, but ultimately nothing did.
So, so challenging.
And I want to talk about Christian Lungard after I make this comment,
but so challenging for 99% of the field to get close to a car in front.
Like it's just, we've talked about this before, but ever since the hybrid.
And the tires that we have now, like they're super temperature sensitive
and the weight of the car and all this sort of thing, you get to that like six, seven,
10th gap and you know, the tires just start to overheat because you're sliding on top
of the surface a little bit.
So you fall back to like a second, then you close back up and it's just this yo-yo effect.
You can't actually get to someone's gearbox to make a move.
Like the example was like, I couldn't clear Joseph when he was saving fuel
and power couldn't get me when he was on a preferred tire.
So like you just, it's hard to do anything.
That being said, Christian Lungard was the exception and was definitely,
in a lot of ways, in a league of his own.
Obviously, Polo was the benchmark for the day, but considering where Christian started
in, in 10th and the fact that, you know, he made his way through starting on the,
on the harder tire and until the pit stop was, was going to give the 10 car run for its money,
was a very impressive performance.
But just to sum up my experience, super bored and I would give it a five out of 10 on the fun scale.
Copy, copy.
Yeah, that sounds fair.
I have a, I have a question for you guys.
Is, this was another example of a weekend where we saw some big wrecks in practice and qualifying.
We had McLaughlin go through the catch fence kind of thing.
Well qualifying was a car failure.
Okay, fair.
But then another no yellow race.
Is it becoming a problem to not have yellows?
Yes, it's not awesome.
It's not great.
It's not great for the action.
It's not great for the teams.
It's not great for the drivers.
It's not great for TV.
The, but I think, I think Alex's point is, is part of the problem, right?
When you can't even effort a pass, the chances of caution, like these cars don't have reliability
problems, you know, very much.
That's a, that's a pretty rare thing to happen.
So, so, and the drivers are all pretty good at just driving around by themselves.
Like it's in a race, you don't see these, these drivers making a lot of mistakes.
So, cautions come from side-by-side racing going wrong, right?
Like that's ultimately what, what it costs it.
And we don't have any side-by-side racing happening at Barber at the moment,
which, which I think stems from, and I kind of get your opinion on this.
So, this is, this is one of the rare times we can actually like dive into some kind of
interesting conversation about this.
So, for me, the thing that stood out, we'll get to a couple different topics on the race,
but for me, the thing that stood out was going into the weekend, it seems to be everybody
thought it was a soft race.
After warm-up, it seemed that the field was very split and unsure what it was going to be.
And shortly into the race first in, it was like, oh, oh no, this is, this is actually a hard race.
You, I heard, were the only driver after warm-up, or maybe even before warm-up, that said to,
I feel like you were talking to me, it was Kevin Lee and Kevin was saying like,
Oh, apparently it's going to be a red race.
And Alex was like, everybody is absolutely wrong.
It's 100%.
No doubt, no questions asked.
Going to be a hard race.
What, what did, what, what happened?
How did we get here?
Well, I'm not going to tell you how we determined that, but I will say on the grid, when every
single team in their pit box had exclusively red tires and we were the only team that was loaded
up with primes, we were certainly questioning ourselves because it was like, uh, I'm, we're
right, but maybe we're definitely super wrong because we are the only two cars that are believing
this. Yeah, I can't, I can't give you, I can't give you the reason.
There was just, there was, we were very sure and confident of our stance and where we were,
why it happened.
I would say most likely it was because it was a very abnormal weekend from a conditions
perspective.
And much earlier in the year than what we normally, yeah, than we normally race at Barber.
So a lot cooler air-tam, cooler track-tam.
It was, it was, well, no, super cool and cars were creating a huge amount of downforce.
And so the lap times were unbelievably quick, like, like very fast, like almost back to
arrow kit days level of, of lap time.
And I think ultimately because the track conditions were so good, that was just such
a high amount of load that was going through the tires that even though historically that
is a red race, um, it's historically been a red race when the race pace was like two
and a half, three seconds slower.
Right.
So I would guess that that has something to do with it.
I'm not completely sure why it, it was such a big shift because we were surprised, um,
because Firestone, this tire was different than last year.
But it was told to be more durable.
So I would have to imagine that it was due to the fact that just the load was so much higher
because the lap times are so much quicker, but.
So would you say that dig on either tire was high?
I would say that there was ultimately no dig on the black.
Right.
And so the, there, yes, the red had high dig in comparison, but like it wasn't,
it wasn't like a crazy amount of dig.
And so it was, it was a good enough tire to get you well within the window to get onto
the primary, which had negative dig.
Actually, it went faster as the fuel load came off.
Right.
So this is, I would like your opinion on this.
This is my belief as to why the racing is so tough.
When you don't have dig, it's not going to be good racing, right?
You don't get that ebb and flow when you have the big crossover and, you know,
when pit stops, when someone comes in early to run fresh tires to tires that are struggling,
like that's when you see a lot more action, I feel.
So I honestly disagree, um, because there was a big enough delta between the tires,
um, for it to, to, to have the, the recipe to be a good race, why it is not good,
in my opinion, is because the two stop is unattainable.
Right.
Right.
So the fuel windows are massive and easy to hit on a three stop.
Like you can, you can, they're like 15 lap windows.
So it doesn't matter if you tank on a tire or not.
Like it's easy to come in early and still do it on two more stops.
So the race distance, okay, go ahead.
What?
No, I was going to say, but, but negative dag tires never lead to good racing.
Because I mean, the prime, the prime has always been negative dag there.
But I'm, and we've, we've often not had gray racing there, right?
Or at least there were times when people tried the two stop.
I think that the race is always good there when there's the two versus the three.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And in order for, in order for that to happen, you either need yellows or you need the cars
to be able to hit the fuel number that they used to be able to hit.
Weird.
What's your range?
Yeah.
No, but so like, because for me, if like, if the, if the prime's a negative dag tire,
right, everyone's going to drive around relatively comfortably and keep going faster.
And the windows are so big, you can get off the worst tire in 15 laps.
And that doesn't fall off a cliff in 15 laps, doesn't hit a click till lap 25.
So you don't get the, the, the standout cars able to kind of make a difference.
And standout drivers are able to take care of the tires a little bit better, you know,
able to make some moves later in a stint.
It's the same thing.
Like think back to like even indie, right?
The first 10 laps of indie, everybody's got a bunch of grip and everybody's trying to pass
whatever.
And then for the middle 10 laps of a stand, everyone just sits in a line.
And then the last 10 laps, the cars that are good can really start making moves that other
cars can't make the same kind of thing.
Like I feel like you need a little bit of dag to separate the good cars and good drivers
from the less good cars and less good drivers in those scenarios to try to get a little bit
of back and forth and, and ebb and flow in the, in the race itself, but I don't know.
No, I mean, maybe, but I, I, I am, I'm fully against the opinion that fuel races ruin racing.
I think, I think having the ability for people to go and try and do one stop less on fuel,
and if the yellows bring it to them and ultimately you've got a bunch of cars that switch and you
got a bunch of cars that are saving fuel to get to the end, that can be boring.
But if there's not that specific amount of yellows and you've got guys that are like
really on the limit and pushing it and they gained, you know, 26 seconds by not doing the
extra stop and the three stoppers have to push to close that 26 second gap.
I think that's when you get a really good show. Like I go back to, to Grosjean,
McLaughlin, which was in 2022, I think, and, and that was a, or 2023, and that was an incredible
race. That was, that was one of the best barber races we've had. And I would say the tire situation
was comparable because ultimately the, the red tire was the preferred tire. It had more
degs through the stint, but it was, the offset was so much bigger that like that was still,
everyone was still kind of using the same thing and everyone could kind of get that tire to the
end. It was the two versus the three that, that made it good. So some work to do there. It's,
you're going to have races like that. It's not the end of the world.
So do we need, do we need to like knock five laps off that
distance? Well, there's been, there's been this huge push from the series to like extend races to
take that viability away. And I'm not saying that that's what happened at barber, but if anything,
yeah, I think, I think we should plan these races, race distances to have the two be like
almost impossible, but like good enough that some people are going to try and do it. Whereas you
went into this race and it was like, there's no chance in hell you would need 15 laps of yellow
to make this happen. Like no one's even going to try. If you work in university maintenance,
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restrictions apply. Yes, it has to be on paper, all green. I don't know what the percentage is,
but a not insignificant percent slower in simulation to do the two stop. So that way the
leaders don't default to two. Guess how much slower this was in our simulation at two stop
versus a three? 25 seconds. 130 seconds. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. It was not that big that long ago.
That long ago. It was not that big. Right. That's two laps down. Yeah. It's not good.
Okay. Well, that's the tires in the fuel and the stint lengths and all the rest of it. You already
brought it up. So let's bring it up again. The Lungard pit stop and like Lungard's performance
in general, right? Like credit to them. Incredible. Especially when you look at where the other two
McLaren cars were. Like 16th and 17th and 18th were the other two were award and Siegel. Yeah,
I duty got there and wait, hang on. Can we just point out that Alex was absolutely right about
the McLaren's then? Yeah. Don't mind me. Going in predicting his race. He said there's so hit or
miss there. Yeah, I think you may hear not car to car. Well, whatever. Yeah. I'm trying to give him
credit. All right. No, no, no, no. It is so the way it was playing out, man, like he'd done the
overcut. He had like just about the gap. Now, I will say in retrospect, because of the
tire situation, in the sense that a lot of teams weren't predicting it to be a hard race,
did not save an adequate amount of hearts for the race is our understanding that in that third
stint, the tires that below were on was on were used hearts, but like potentially 10 laps on them
and then had to go and do a stint. So the fact that Christian was like catching them and,
you know, pulling out a gap when he was staying out longer makes a little more sense in that,
in that case, just because of how quick Polo was all weekend. But again, Christian very quick.
He was, he was due to come out with a clean stop. He was due to come out right on him. It would have
been a fun blend. It would have been a fun blend and then it would have been a race because Christian
did have pace, right? Once again, and this is what I love about this is also what I hate about this.
Polo was obviously the class of the field today, that day, sorry, but it's also the 19, sorry,
the 10 team, Chip Ganassi. They just don't, they just don't get it wrong, man. They just don't
make mistakes. And this is another example. And Alex got bless them with a first to tell you,
like the number of races that he's won, because other people lost them and he was just there and
like that team made fewer mistakes. It's not an insignificant number. And this was another one
where they were in position to fight and all the 10 crew had to do was not screw it up.
And unfortunately on the seven, they had a problem and it eliminated,
you know, any threat for the race win. But it's, it's just, it's so impressive. It's so impressive
that they never seem to falter. You know, obviously Polo had his issue in Phoenix,
but as a group, as it's like, this is such a team sport guys. And this was the most
blatant example of it. The seven team didn't execute as well as the 10 team did. And so
they don't win the race. It's impressive. Very impressive. We got a team that executes at that
level and then have a driver that's operating and performing at that level. Pretty, pretty cool
combo for them. Yeah, it must be nice. And then of course, Ray Hall closing out the podium, huge,
huge story, big deal, very cool. It was, I wasn't sure how that was going to go because after
qualifying, like obviously did a great job in qualifying starting third, I think, third, fourth,
third, fourth, third, fourth. And I think it was Jack, maybe he was talking to him after qualifying.
He's like, yeah, man, I, we have no idea what happened. Not sure where that came from. I'm like,
oh, I was really hoping it was going to be like, yeah, we found a setup change. The car just came
alive. And yeah, but it's like, yeah, I don't know. It's like, ooh, that doesn't, that's not
normally a good sign going to the race that you maybe just like pulled one out of a hat. But
yeah, I mean, they're always pretty good there. I just think it's so weird. Like we talked to
the guy from Elmore on Tuesday, which if you've not listened, you should listen to that episode
right now. There's just so many people pouring over data and looking at every single thing you
guys do to a car. Like how can there just be like, yeah, we don't know. It happens in F1 and they
have infinitely more people and resource to pour over data. And sometimes raising is a bit of black
magic. Like it's just a little bit of pixie dust. And sometimes that can, you know, it's tough. It
ain't an easy game. But yeah, so Graham did a great job. It was his first podium since 21, I think.
But somebody was saying how the last two top threes that he had, the last two podiums,
were at Indy and Texas. The two races that don't do traditional podiums and only celebrate the
winner. So Graham actually hadn't been on a podium and gotten a trophy. I think since it was like
his Detroit win in 2017 or something. So it was, maybe that's right. I know that was his last win.
Long overdue. Let's just put it that way because ultimately, like he's had a handful of polls
since then. And it's just, it's a good reminder that this is, it's not a spec series. Like we can
talk about how it is all you want on paper. It is not. Like there's so much proprietary information
and ingenuity that goes along across all these teams to find performance from the cars. And the
Graham qualifying third, fourth, whatever on the second row to back up his second row in Phoenix
and to then execute and finish on the podium. Just goes to show that his missing from the podium
over the past, however many years you just said is not necessarily all in part to Graham. Like,
yeah, maybe, maybe some of those events are right, but him running around in P 20 for,
you know, seven races a year for the past three or four years is not because Graham Ray Hall
all of a sudden forgot how to drive a race car. It's because that organization has struggled
to keep up and to develop at the rate that other teams are. And so it's just, is it F1? No,
but it's, there's a lot more influence than I think people maybe realize. And this is a great
example of that. Yeah, 100%. And another one where, you know, his two teammates were, I mean,
I think they were last and second last, they were last and second last and he was on the podium.
But the thing, the thing about it, and like, you know, we talk about this at Barbara a lot,
like track position is key there and clean air and all that sort of stuff. But so he had a good
starting spot, but he hung on to it. And it was really that last stint that was super impressive
because he was on, you know, old yards, I think he had Lundgaard, you know, on an absolute mission
trying to rebound from the bad pit stop. And he did a pretty good job hanging on to second for a while.
It was almost impossible to keep Lundgaard by the pace that he had. But the way he was driving,
man, like his, his racecraft is solid. Like he was, his defense was really good. His car placement
was really good. And he held that lap, that position probably three laps longer than he
should have, made Christian's job really hard. And then he had Malukas coming up on him, those
last few laps. Malukas had like 80 seconds more push to pass in the last three laps and did what
he had to do to hang on to it. So it was a really, really gritty drive. It was really good to watch.
And yeah, feel good story all around. One, one thing I want to touch on really quick is the,
the weird realization that Dennis Hauger, fast six in St. Pete, right? Obviously,
he did a year of indie lights, but ultimately a European background, right?
Mick Schumacher, pretty good compared to his teammates and such in Arlington,
which is a huge departure from a street course for him and St. Pete. You would think that those two
would show up to Barber and would excel there, which is, I mean, Barber is probably one of the
closest European type tracks that we have. Another example of this is Nico Hulkenberg,
when he tested for McLaren at Barber and was, was potentially one of the worst prospects
that any IndyCar has seen. And Nico will admit this himself, like seconds off the pace.
What is it about Barber? Do you think that like is, is so hard for these guys to adapt to,
because it should be the easiest one for them? I think I know the answer, because I read Nico's
quotes when he did that a few years ago, and I saw Dennis and Kyle Collette. I didn't see Mick,
but I'm going to be honest with you, man. I think it's the physicality. I think that's the first
race, St. Pete's a tough race. St. Pete's a very tough race. It's hot, it's long, it's bumpy,
it's, it's frantic. There's no, you know, you got one straight to kind of catch your breath.
The rest is pretty flat out. Barber is, I think, the most physical racetrack on the calendar,
and, and all green race in conditions that are super cool, and your race pace is two seconds
faster than it was last year. We talk about this all the time, like, you get to a certain point.
Every second faster is like an exponential leap in physicality. No cautions. I think they fell
out of the seat. And, and, and that's not a criticism, because certainly not for like, for
the guys coming out of next, you know, the, the next car is a great little car. It is,
it's fast. It's physical in its own way, but an indie car around Barber is tough. And I think even,
I think even Mick was probably caught off guard with the physicality of the place by the time it
was all said and done, because he had a couple runs in practice where he was very quick. It's,
he didn't get the lap done. Like, I think he really enjoyed it, but I just think that race is hard.
Yeah. It's one where you would, like I said, you would just expect them to,
to be the most comfortable right away. Good point. Good point. All right. As we talk about
Europeans, we should probably touch on Suzuka really quick. What up?
Well, hold on. Just, just two points or one point. Let's want to make one other point, which is
Kirkwood. So Kirkwood pulled off a top five at a track that Andretti's not been great at lately
at a track that he's, the best he's done is a ninth place finish there in his,
albeit relatively short, indie car career. But that to me, this was, this was going to be a big
test of like where that crew, like where that driver team crew is the 27 to be the genuine
championship contender, because this is kind of their weaker track type. And then we have,
you know, this is Polo's best track type. It was worst case scenario for them. And that Polo
one from pole had fastest lap and led the most laps and all that stuff got maximum points.
But I think they did a really good kind of damage limitation sort of weekend. And to me,
makes it seem like this is a good, good thing. This is potentially going to be a strong
championship run. We're heading to Long Beach next. That's happy hunting ground for
Kyle, for Andretti, for the 27 specifically. So yeah, I think we got a race in our hands. I
mean, I know Polo closed the gap right up, but I think we got a race in our hands,
which is exciting for everybody. Speaking of exciting for everybody, Suzuka.
Oh God. Okay. So we had a little bit of a disagreement and some argument post China.
Are you on team Alex yet? Because that was stupid.
That was the least enjoyable one I think of the year so far.
It's really bad. Like I granted, I didn't, I didn't watch the entire race. I was busy
driving my own race car racing. Yeah. But I watched the 30 minute, you know,
highlight thingy Mabab. There was potentially going to be a decent race maybe, but Kimmy just
had everyone covered it seemed and was able to cover the, the beer men's safety car situation.
But you know, there's a problem when the FIA on the Monday put the statement out saying,
we hear everyone, we're going to take these weeks off to look at solutions and potentially
make some changes to address what is happening. So I completely agree. And
Oh boy. No, no, the one thing, the one thing that I said from the beginning of this whole thing,
and I, and I still maintain now is that they're going to fit. Like they're going to fix it.
It's going to get better. Right. This is not what we're stuck with for the next four years.
If you give a hundred of the smartest engineers on earth, a couple months and a hundred million
dollars, go figure it out. They're going to figure it out. Is it going to go back to what it was?
No. Are the changes going to be overnight? No. Do I think this happens all the time in racing
man? How many times have we been in a scenario where like, oh my God, this is the worst thing ever.
Life's over. Racing, racing is going to fail. The series is collapsing. This is going to be the,
and it just, we just figure it out, man. It's just what we do. We figure out how to go racing.
So yes, it needs work. It needs a lot of work. Qualifying was depressing to watch. It was
painful listening to all the drivers comments afterwards. And the thing that got me more than
anything, I think this is where compared to China, it stood out to me was, yeah, were there more
on track passes than what we've seen at Suzuka in the past? Yes. Every single one of them.
And look, everybody that wants to sit here and **** on DRS. And I know that some people are like,
I think this is better than DRS because DRS was the most artificial thing ever. No,
DRS started that way, but then they tweaked and improved the zones. So that way it was still
kind of hard to make a pass. You still had to lunge a guy. You still had to be late on the
brakes. You still had to be brave. If they defended, you still had to make it work on the outside.
Thank you. It was still hard. Now, every single pass is literally, I saw one where Leclerc had
to actually try to muscle by Russell on the outside of turn one. Every other pass was just a 30K,
40K speed difference on the straight. It required no talent to pass. Yes, you had to manage the
power. But now I've learned more. The drivers actually have less control over the deployment
than I thought they did. And so it's actually even worse than I thought because it's not just
about being smarter than the other guy. Sometimes the system just takes over and the drivers got
almost no control whatsoever, which is not, it's not how we have to go. We cannot go forward like
this. But Monday afterwards, and also like the Bearman Call of Pinto situation highlighted another
big issue. So at least they're not saying, well, we're going to wait till halfway through the year.
The FIA, FOM, they're on the case. I'm cautiously optimistic that we're going to move things in
the right direction on that sense and it will be good. All that to say, F1's off for a while.
We're off for a little while. We got a couple of weeks before Long Beach. Alex, how are you spending
your time? I'm staying at home, dude. This will be my first weekend at home in like seven weeks. So
I'm not doing anything. Yeah. Nice. Catch up with Ben, see how college is for him.
Right. Right. Exactly. I have two things. Okay. I have two things I want to bring up real quick
because I know we're out of time. I have no plans for the next two weeks other than just moving,
but I'm going to complain about less than you. That's a pretty big plan. Another one of you.
Well, I'm not going to make it an issue. This is not going to get in the way of recording at all.
And this will be the last I can mention it if you guys want. Hang on a minute.
I got a second human being ever to move. I recorded every single time we needed to record.
You were late. You were late a lot. That's, I still am when I have a house.
So two things. The poll is done, 70, 30 people know who, what a second joy a dollar is. There's
just no way that's true. And the second thing I want to bring up, point out because I forgot
to last week, I got a gift from a fan. James, you gave him my address, which I appreciate
because this is really cool, but it did make me have to move. I got an off track die cast from
a fan of ours, Jason Moritz sent it to my place. It's got me on the nose. Yeah, they're not amazing.
So I just wanted to say thank you. And yeah, that was it. So this is now in my backpack.
We'll be taking custom orders. If anybody wants one, they are $1,000 each.
Yeah. Yeah, Jason, you should sell these. These are really good.
Yeah, I just made that up, buddy. I hope that's worth your time. I don't know how long that took
you. I mean, you can adjust the price. We can adjust the price. Yeah. All right. Well, dude,
enjoy your off weekend. Say hi to Ben, Tim, enjoy packing. Moving's great. You're going to love it.
So far it's been a breeze. I don't know what you were bitching about.
We'll be sure to share your new address on next week's show after we recap Nashville.
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