Driven Radio Show #328: Dave Kinney, Hagerty Price Guide Publisher
Annotations will appear as you listen
0:00
77:47
Car
1959 T-Bird
The 1959 Ford Thunderbird, nicknamed the T‑Bird, is a classic American car. It’s a two‑seat coupe that was popular for its sleek look and strong engine, making it a favorite among car lovers.
Part
twin turbo
It means the car has two small machines that push extra air into the engine, making it run faster and stronger.
Company
Callaway
Callaway is a company that takes classic Corvettes and makes them faster by adding special parts.
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
This is a classic American sports car from 1987 that has been upgraded by Callaway to use two turbochargers, making it much faster than the original version.
Car
1979 Chrysler Cordoba
The Cordoba is a classic American car from the 1970s. It’s known for its boxy shape and was sold by Chrysler, a major car maker in the U.S.
Car
Seat Cordoba
The Cordoba is a small, stylish car from Spain that was popular in the 80s. It’s easy to drive and looks good.
Company
Craiger's
Craiger's makes custom wheels that people can put on cars to look cooler and sometimes drive better. They’re a brand many car fans know.
Car
Dodge Custom
It’s a vintage Dodge from 1964, a big car with a V8 engine that was popular in the ’60s. It’s still around today for classic car lovers.
Term
roadside services
If your car stops working or you’re stuck, roadside services can help get you back on the road by towing your car or fixing simple problems right there.
Car
Chrysler New Yorker
The New Yorker is a big, comfortable car from Chrysler that people used to drive in the past. It’s known for being roomy and easy to sit in.
Company
Hot Rod Express
Hot Rod Express is a car shop that can change your car to look cooler or drive faster.
Term
50% off sales
Sometimes car dealers give a big discount, like half off the price, to make people buy cars faster.
Term
Chrome restoration
Chrome is the shiny metal trim on many old cars. Over time it can get dull or tarnish, so people clean and polish it to bring back its bright look.
Term
headlight flasher
When you turn on a car’s headlights, the flasher helps switch between low and high beams or makes the lights flash for warnings.
Part
high beam switch
It’s the little button or lever you push to make your car’s headlights shine brighter for better night visibility. When you press it, the lights switch from normal to a stronger beam.
Part
tail light
The tail light is the red light at the back of a car that turns on when you brake or signal, letting people behind know you're slowing down or turning.
Part
plastic chrome band
This is a shiny plastic strip that goes around the edge of a car's light to make it look nicer.
Term
generic parts
Generic parts are replacement pieces that aren’t made by the car’s original maker but can still fit and work in many cars.
Concept
G-body platform
The G‑body is a type of car frame that GM used for some muscle cars in the 70s and 80s, like the Camaro.
Car
Ferrari 308
The Ferrari 308 GTS is a small, fast Italian car that can be opened to let the wind in. It’s famous for being light and quick on the road.
Term
belt service
It’s a routine check where mechanics look at the belts that help run parts of the car, and replace them if they’re worn.
Term
small block Chevy
It’s a type of engine that many cars use because it’s powerful but not too big.
Concept
internet changed parts sourcing
Thanks to the web, people can now buy hard-to-find car parts from online stores instead of hunting them in person.
Part
windshield surround molding
Windshield surround molding is a piece that goes around the edge of a car's front window, helping keep water out and giving the car a finished look.
Term
parts car
A 'parts car' is a used car that people buy mainly to take parts out of it, like the engine or wheels, because it's cheaper than buying a new part.
Car
Porsche 911 Turbos
The 911 Turbo is a fast, fancy German sports car that can go very quickly and feels great to drive. It’s famous for having a powerful engine that makes it feel like a rocket on the road.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Cclass
The C‑Class is a fancy German car that feels comfortable and safe. It’s smaller than the big Mercedes SUVs but still looks very upscale.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Gclass
The G‑Wagon is a big, sturdy SUV that can handle rough terrain and looks very classic. It’s also considered a luxury vehicle because of its brand name.
Car
Ford Bronco
The Bronco is a small SUV that can go off the road and looks like an old‑school truck. It’s popular with people who like camping or hiking.
Term
Volkswagen engine
Some Porsche 911 owners replace the original engine with a Volkswagen flat‑six engine. This can be cheaper to fix later because parts are easier to find.
Part
leather gear shift boot
The gear shift boot is a cover around the shifter that keeps it clean. Some people buy fancy leather ones to make their car look nicer.
Car
Ford Mustangs
The Mustang is a fast American car that looks cool and has been around for many decades. People love it because it’s fun to drive and easy to recognize.
Car
Dodge Power
The Power Wagon is a big, strong truck that can go anywhere. It’s old and hard to find, so people who own one are special.
Car
Mercedes-Benz SL
The SL is a fancy convertible from Mercedes that can close its roof like a car door. It’s known for being fast and comfortable.
Car
Porsche 300 SL
Porsche is a German car brand. The 300 SL was made in the 1950s and is considered one of the coolest classic sports cars ever.
Car
Bentley Rtype Bentley
The R‑Type Continental is a very fancy British car from the 1950s that can go fast and looks like a classic luxury vehicle. It’s rare and valuable.
Car
Chevrolet Bel Air
The Bel Air is a big, old American car that looks like it belongs in a movie. It has shiny chrome and is loved by people who enjoy classic cars.
Car
Ford Galaxies
The Galaxie 500 is a big, comfortable car from Ford that people liked in the 60s. It has a strong engine and plenty of space inside.
Car
Dodge Charger
The Charger is a big, strong car that can be very fast. It looks like a muscle car from the 1960s and many people want to own one.
Car
Cadillac Xlr
The XLR is a fancy Cadillac convertible that can close its roof like a car door. It’s fast and comfortable, making it popular with people who love luxury cars.
Concept
car auction
A car auction is a place where people sell cars to whoever offers the most money. It’s like a big sale where lots of cars are up for grabs.
Car
Mercury Mountaineer
The Mountaineer is a big, comfortable car from Mercury that people liked in the 70s and 80s. It feels smooth when you drive it.
Car
Nissan XTerra
The Xterra is a tough SUV that can go off the road. It’s built to carry people and gear for camping or hiking.
Company
Ossipic Automotive
Ossipic Automotive is a car repair shop that promises honest work and guarantees it will last at least one month or 1000 miles. They have certified mechanics who can fix a variety of car problems.
LIVE
Welcome to Driven Radio Show, your home for car talk covering the latest news to the greatest
views on the biggest names in performance, sports, and just plain cool driving machines.
Let's rev up the conversation.
Time for Driven Radio Show.
Hey all you gear heads and car fiends, welcome to Driven Radio Show, your weekly automotive
happy hour.
I am Brett Hatfield here with my co-host and engineer extraordinaire, Mr. Mark Grubbs.
And we are coming to you from Driven Radio Studios.
You missed the T-Bird, didn't you?
1959 T-Bird that I was kind of hanging on, waiting on and stuff.
It was down at Branson.
I thought it was a really pretty car and I thought the price was amazing.
Wait a minute.
The car in Branson?
Yeah.
Oh, I bought that.
Yes.
Son of a bitch.
Son of a bitch.
It was a good price and a cool car, et cetera, et cetera.
But here's the weird thing.
The last time that I was on the car hunt and finally found that dodge, I had a very, very
limited budget.
Very.
And I had to go look and strike while the iron was hot for things that were landed in
my field.
Now that I've basically doubled that budget, I'm money banks over here.
I'm able to step back and relax about it and not be spinked or up because if something
rolls through and it's like, oh, shit, that was a great deal, but it's gone.
Spinkers become a verb.
Yeah.
I have spinked it.
But I am comfortable with it and we'll find out with a day of our guest, but I am seeing
at least on the Facebook levels that the prices are still dropping and I'm kind of waiting
to see where it's going to go.
Well, and here's something interesting, a car that I was watching on bring a trailer
and 87 Corvette Callaway twin turbo in really clean shape, 16,000 miles black tan interior.
Good looking car and one I'd love to have if I had more garage space.
Hey, I got to wear us.
Oh, who knew?
Wow.
It made it to Facebook.
Oh, it's in Wisconsin.
It's inside my search circle and it keeps popping up and it's it's kind of like dangling
meat in front of a dog.
Well, yeah.
And I keep looking at that thing.
I keep and that's that he's he's a fuzz high on it.
He's a little high on it.
If he would come down on four or five grand, I'd probably crawl all over the thing.
It's just good looking.
I've had an 87 vet rag top.
I like them and this one would be a whole different animal because it's got so much
more power, like 140, 150 more horsepower than it came with stock and five hundred
sixty two pound feet of torque.
The thing's just a beast.
Yeah, it's not if it's on Facebook, then just offer him half.
That's what everybody else.
We take eight thousand for it.
I'll throw in a new pair of new balance.
You're going bowling.
Take your low ball.
That's right.
So there is there is some really quality stuff to be found on Facebook.
And it is a different feeling when you're shopping and you've got it.
Yeah, you don't have to borrow it.
You don't have to ask permission.
You don't have to.
You're the only thing.
The only limitation in your case is it has to be under two hundred four inches in length.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I if I'm going to make it more of a garage queen, you bet.
Well, if you're going to get the garage closed.
Yeah.
I am kind of, you know, I have a two fold thing.
Because one of it is God, wouldn't it be fun to be and have a daily driver
that's really odd?
Go get a challenger.
It's not odd, but it'll be fun.
Well, I'm kind of thinking it has AC.
A 1979 Chrysler Cordoba.
You and I, you know, a post show last week when we were looking at shit boxes and fun cars.
I have no no problem with you getting a Cordoba.
However, you ain't got a hair on your ass if you don't get a life size
cardboard cut out of Ricardo Montabon to run shotgun in that thing.
I will buy a white suit and look like he did on what was it?
Fantasy Island.
OK, now you got to get one of Urbea Villa.
She is a real stuff guy.
The mustache on a baby mannequin.
But I have found a Chrysler Cordoba.
I don't want to say where yet.
Supposedly it has 69 K on it on the clock with AC, all the stuff and a working eight track.
Let's see your face.
And I'm hoping that it's triple blue.
Mark it.
Blue vinyl roof and that would be awesome.
Unfortunately, it's not that cool.
It is it's white on the outside, but it's got red, Corinthian leather
that looks like a mortal flesh wound.
Oh, yeah, I mean, it just looks like they cut right in the middle of that last week.
Yes, it's that one.
It's still out there.
And I know when you put a Cordoba into Facebook Marketplace,
there's 900 acoustic guitars called Cordoba at Chrysler before it.
And then it will just look at you and shake its head.
There it is.
Yeah, that's cheap, Mark.
You can do that all day long.
Yeah, that one.
I mean, I could park that out in the driveway and just hop into it whenever I felt like.
And if I wanted to go to a car show, shine it up.
The only things that's missing from it is my ability to take it to Greaserama.
That was hella fun in that 64 Dodge.
And then I sold it, you know, a week later.
Sixty four or older.
Yeah, this thing's so cheap, you could find another one.
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking.
You need to go.
Don't tell my wife.
You really, really got to go look at that.
Fifty six. She loves me, but I'm testing how much.
You got to go look at that.
Fifty six plummethe in Nebraska, though.
Yeah, that that one, even she told me that.
Yeah, Mark, I'm good.
I'm going to warn you on this as the official old person here.
You're right at the end of the era where you can buy something
that and own it sarcastically, OK?
Because a 79 Cordoba, the first time somebody says, oh, look at that sad old man.
I bet he bought it new.
OK, you don't ever want to hear that.
You don't ever want to hear that.
Because I've heard that before.
I had my mom's 1973 Cougar and somebody asked me if I bought it new.
Now, conceptually, I could have bought it new.
But no one that age had any money.
So, no, I didn't buy it new.
But it was kind of like, dude, you're right.
I could have bought this thing new had it been a billionaire
when I was a millionaire or whatever.
So that was like the day I lost all interest in having that.
Ironically, fun cars.
Yeah, it's not.
You know, it's it's great when it's you're doing something ironic with a car
because that's great fun.
You know, you can you can, you know, like the, you know, the Corvette,
you can get your jorts and your new balance shoes and, you know, and, you know,
oh, a white shirt and a tennis racket and, you know, relive that era when you're younger.
But when you do it, when you're my age, it's like it's just sad.
Just saying.
Dave, don't feel bad about that because I've been in conversations.
I've had this happen more times than I can count.
Been in conversations with people.
I tell them about the 60 Corvette, the red Corvette that I've had since I was 18.
Right.
And I've had a couple of people ask me if I bought the car new.
The car is nine years older than I am.
And I always say to those people at a minimum to buy that new,
I would have had to have been 16 in 1960,
which means I was born in 1944, which makes me over 80 years old.
Are you out of your mind?
And they'll say, well, you're really well preserved for 80.
Yeah, they just do not get the math.
And, you know, it's the new math.
It's messing everybody up.
Oh, and also I can make you deal, you know, Brett, with those torque thrusts.
Oh, oh, fantastic wheels.
Now I got to find something to put them on.
Hell, yeah.
Gee, what's on Facebook Marketplace?
I've been saving such a Craigers, too.
So I bet you have.
You need to have the 10 inch wide Craigers.
Hell, yeah.
Raise white letter.
Yeah.
Have to get you some fuzzy dice.
Not sure what all else goes with that.
Is it a felony tree, fuzzy dice, a stack of felony trees
and a whole bunch of other stuff I'm not going to bring up.
Oh, my God, I wonder if I could get a gun rack in the back window.
You might have to cut it down.
I got a hex saw.
I can help you out.
Oh, thoughts and dreams.
Jesus Christ, gun rack and a cord go up.
Thoughts and prayers.
Oh, that would be awesome.
I wonder if you could do that with double sided tape.
You could do anything with duct tape.
I would recommend a fake continental kit on the back of the.
Oh, God.
Now you can't get it in the garage.
I couldn't get this in the garage anyway.
It's going to sit outside.
Do a foam one.
You just, you know, Velcro it and just rip it off when you get to the garage.
Oh, I wonder if they have them because, you know,
this is a big enough car that you could put a trailer hitch on it.
And like they used to do in the 70s, they used to put trailer hitches.
I put a trailer hitch on that and then put the continental kit and slide it into that.
This is this is some great thoughts and then a spoiler.
And I think I'll be set.
Oh, stop it.
You know how far off the rails this is already gone.
This is making me happy.
What are these commercials?
Yeah, they're commercials, but they're about people in services that don't suck.
We know because we are actual real paying customers.
We are not suck ups.
Well, yet anyway, put these in your ear holes.
Are you driving some classical gas?
Haggerty.com can get you a real time insurance quote based on your zip code
right there online.
Have a classic 1964 Dodge custom 880 with a tank full of oxide.
Maybe I think you may have.
Yeah, does fuel move in it like grape nuts through your grandpa?
Yes, it does.
You're going to need roadside services and you do.
And Haggerty's drivers club offers emergency roadside services.
I have used those really with Corvette.
They scooped it up and took it over to Rick's Hot Rod Express.
Don't have a cool car yet.
But tired of geniuses who tell you it ran when parked like that.
Minister told you and don't know about me.
I know what I got the same minister.
Yeah, sweet classic, a hot resto mod and anything in between in the Haggerty
marketplace and Haggerty auction list.
You can set the marketplace for alerts.
Yes, I've had one going for, I think, five years now.
And I still get the occasional alert when a mid sixties Chrysler bomber shows up
on there, some either a Newport or a New Yorker and you could just set it and go
and it will let you know when something pops up.
It's super cool.
None of those fit in your garage.
Not any more than it's five years old, but it keeps the dream alive.
You want to sell your car, put it up for auction on their marketplace
after you use Haggerty's online valuation tools.
Now, what can't you do at Haggerty dot com?
You can't get a degree in underwater basket weaving.
How darn.
You can't marry a honey badger and you can't believe how much you can do
right there online.
Plus, you can purchase their online buyer's guide so you can roll like a
horsepower Somalia.
So check it out.
Haggerty dot com.
We're proud and honored to have Dave Kinney and Greg Engold as repeat
offenders on the show.
And that's the honest God truth.
I love those guys and they always know what they're talking about.
Thank you, Haggerty, for lending them to us.
PS, you might want HR to pony up for therapy after each recording session.
Just saying.
Not wrong.
Haggerty dot com.
The best of car culture ride at your fingertips.
Car guys have dreams, don't we?
The dream might be sitting in the garage waiting to be perfected.
It might be sitting on an auction site with a guy working the highest bid.
Oh, Lord, I got one of those right now.
What makes it a dream?
The potential, the goal, a perfected ride that makes you look back at it every
time before you close your garage door.
Just one more shot.
No, they tell you you found the right car.
You can't park it in a parking lot without shooting a look back over your
shoulder as you walk away.
And at Hot Rod Express, dreams come true.
Call Hot Rod Express in Blue Springs, Missouri at 816-224-9597.
Ask for Rick Hunter, the nicest guy this side of a kick-ass burnout.
He did wonders for my 65 Corvette and he can do it for your car, too.
Whether you want your dream ride to look more original than when it rolled off
the showroom floor or you want to turn it into a high-performance,
meat-eating, flame-throwing street monster, Rick and his expert crew
could make that happen.
Stop dreaming, start driving.
Call Rick Hunter at Hot Rod Express 816-224-9597 or just stop by at
5105 US 40 in Blue Springs, Missouri, 816-224-9597.
At Hot Rod Express, they make friends fast.
And now, back to more Driven Radio Show.
Our special guest this week is Dave Kenney of the Hagerty Price Guide,
publisher of the Hagerty Price Guide.
Dave is the lifelong automobile enthusiast, collector, owner of
automotive valuation firm US Appraisal, contributor to the Hagerty Insider,
publisher of the Hagerty Price Guide, and he serves on the McPherson
College Auto Restoration Program Advisory Board.
In addition to that, it's all Dave's fault that I am now a member of
the American Society of Appraisers.
Dave, welcome back to Driven Radio.
It is my pleasure.
Good to see both of you.
Oh, great to see you too.
I will say this out loud and for the public, I can't believe how much
DM weight you've lost.
You look fantastic.
And I wanted to make that very public.
You look great.
Well, thank you.
I, you know, what can I say?
Um, yeah, I've made a, uh, I've made a habit of walking a minimum of four
miles a day and, uh, and I, I've missed twice since July.
So I missed once in July and once in August.
And, uh, some days I've done 12 miles, uh, occasionally, not too often,
I do six miles, um, but it's pretty easy to do.
All you have to do is put one step in front of the other.
You don't need any special equipment.
When it's cold out, the good news is that we have a house with a round
room in it, so you can walk around, you know, around our, uh, very 70s,
very, uh, uh, very mid-century modern, uh, or early 70s, mid-century
modern house.
Um, so even when it's freezing out, like it was a couple of days ago, uh, you
can even do your steps inside.
So I want to see Dave walk in circles in a sock.
Well, it is 70s house.
No, I, I will tell you that my secret though, for bad weather is go to
Home Depot and or Lowe's or wherever, or any mega store and just grab a cart
and pretend like you're looking for something and walk real fast all the
way throughout all the grocery stores.
You have to do it in really big grocery stores at, at non-crowded times.
But, you know, with homie D everybody ignores you, especially the people who
work there.
Hey.
Costco, Home Depot, uh, Sam's Club.
As you know, if you put eight bags of quick read in the cart, then you get kind
of a little bit of an extra exercise out of it too.
It hits your lats pretty well in your form.
That's what I'm thinking.
There you go.
I have to tell you the last time I went to Home Depot, which was only this week
and I was a little light on steps.
I didn't have much time in the morning.
We had a tree fall in my street and so I was up and out at seven, you know,
seven, 15, you know, with my, with my hairy homeowner street, pretending,
pretending like I did, could do something to this tree.
This is the charmed life I leave.
I, you know, we're never going to get this show done.
So, you know, whatever.
That's okay.
We're cutting a commercial later.
Okay.
I'm out.
It's 737, a neighbor calls me and said, tree fell from your yard
into the street.
We live on a little private street.
There's only 12 of us.
And so it's your responsibility if that happens.
So I get down there.
I get my little, you know, my little chainsaw, you know, and what I needed
was the one with the bar 60, 80 inches long.
And, and I couldn't even get the damn thing started.
So I went back up and got the electric chainsaw, which was even worse.
And I came down and the first people down the street, this just showed
you that I live a charmed life.
The first people down the street was a tree service and they were going
to my neighbor's house, two houses up from me and they couldn't get there
without cutting part of the tree.
So they started cutting the tree.
And as soon as they saw somebody coming down the driveway, they said,
wait a minute, this is a guy who owns the tree.
Let's see what we can hijack.
You owe us 20 bucks.
No, I, it wasn't, it was a little more than 20 bucks, but I, I negotiated
the don't call the boss price.
I'm buying you guys lunch.
Yeah.
Well, I think I bought dinner and, you know, snacks as well.
But, but the point was, I just went to the ATM, came back and by the time
I got back from the ATM, which I might add is less than a mile away.
I, and yes, I was able to drive because it's past my driveway.
But it was all taken care of.
And, uh, so that, that is a charm life when you can fix a problem for
your neighbors that comes up at seven 30 and it eight 17.
Uh, it was taken care of.
Oh, that's fantastic.
Wow.
That is absolutely fantastic.
It'll never happen that way again.
Next time everybody, you know, everybody's too busy to do it or whatever.
But me and that chainsaw, I was, you know, is literally like, you know,
taking a river and trying to damn it with some, uh, you know, toothpaste.
Did you put on your black and red flannel and your work boots before
you went out there?
No, but I was singing.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay.
Sloped all night and worked all day.
I just, I like to play with Dolly's just like my dear papa.
Just like your dear papa.
Uh, just didn't want to go there.
You did it anyway.
So there you go.
It is time for our quarterly, it's past time for our quarterly update of the
high price guide.
That's why we have you back.
Uh, we get to find out what is hot.
What's not what you should be looking for selling and holding on to.
Last time we spoke to you, Dave, uh, in an official capacity was mid-July.
And then you and I saw each other out in Monterey.
Uh, and I got to give it.
Hey, how did, how did Dave like his t-shirt?
How did Greg like his t-shirt?
I'm, yeah, I'm afraid we embarrassed.
I don't think it was very popular with his girlfriend.
Let's put it down.
That's what I absolutely wanted.
That's fantastic.
I worked in, it worked.
It's magic.
It really did.
I was really hoping you could get it on video.
Damn.
By the way, by the way, Greg couldn't be here tonight.
Normally we do this together and Greg's doing fine.
There's no problems.
No, we just did this very last minute and I didn't give him a lot of, a lot of
time to, you know, work his schedule around.
So that's my fault, not Greg's fault.
All right.
I'm pretty sure you had a, you had a date down at the mall shop with his girlfriend,
you know, and they were, they were going and listening to Bobby Dern records.
He's such a sweetheart of a human.
He's such, he's the nicest guy in the world.
He really is.
He doesn't seem to have a mean bone in his body.
I don't think he does.
You know, when he gets mad, he says things like, gosh, darn it.
That's Greg.
And that's why we love him.
All right.
So, um, obviously Monterey car week sales are in this price guide.
What else is in here?
I think that's, you know, we're very, very fortunate because we slammed those
into, uh, you know, what we did at, at, at literally the last minute.
And it's very, very helpful because the big sales really tell you where the
market's going, you know, we used to call them bellwethers.
And I guess that's probably not a bad idea.
Um, you know, there is no panic in the old car world.
There are prices that are declining, um, but nobody is running for the exit.
Nobody is, you know, having 50% off sales.
Um, but the, you know, this trend that started a few years ago where the good
cars bring money and the bad cars sit in wait.
And I mean, condition wise is what I'm talking about is, is even more so today
and we'll continue this way for the, you know, for the foreseeable future.
One of the reasons why is cause it costs so much to, to restore a car.
It even costs a lot of money to paint a car these days.
Um, so, you know, if you, if you buy a fifties car and it needs $60,000 worth
of chrome, there's a really good chance that chrome will never get done, but it
doesn't mean you can't enjoy the car.
So I mean, you know, those sorts of things are coming into play more and more
because the cost of the restoration, the cost of the parts, um, and obviously
the labor to get it done.
So, um, the good cars bring good money, um, uh, and you know, in this marketplace,
I think there's a bunch of people who are a little scared about the economy.
So they're not buying like they would, but there is no, nobody, like I said,
nobody's panicking, nobody's selling cars, you know, uh, uh, at half price.
I mean, there was always going to be a car at half price because people
don't understand the market, but, um, um, yeah, it's, it's a good solid market.
It's just not as good or solid as it was a couple of years ago.
Well, a couple of years ago was closer to the pandemic.
And that's one of my, everybody went nuts because it was one of, you know,
plan with your cars was something you could do that you didn't have to worry
about social distancing and all that stuff.
It's the best social distance machine there is, especially if you only
have one other seat.
Yeah, no kidding.
Uh, do you think, I mean, we all know that everything now, everything
is more expensive.
It just is.
But do you think part of the reason it's so much more expensive to restore a car
now is because we have fewer people who know how to do it.
We have fewer of them making it to the shops that work on this kind of thing.
And also fewer shops are doing Chrome.
You know, there's fewer suppliers who are doing Chrome restoration.
Well, that's all part of it.
But I will tell you one thing that happened in the, you know, after the
seventies and in a little bit started in the eighties.
Do you remember when every single, um, you know, headlight flasher to go from low
beam to high beam with some rare exceptions, mostly for European cars was
operated by your left foot by a switch that you could buy for $2 and 30 cents
for about forever.
Yeah, I had to buy one not too long ago.
It's now a space.
You could buy them at a drugstore at one point.
You know, they'd have like 15 auto parts and that would be one of them.
Um, and now it's a specialty part.
And I think I paid $22 or $26 for a high beam switch.
Yeah, for a high beam switch and, um, you know, high beam low beam switch,
but here's what happened.
Everybody started designing things that were different.
So, you know, some of them have it on the, you know, the stock.
Some of them have them here, some of them have them there, you know, whatever.
So there's no more of these or there's very few left of these kind of universal parts.
You know, for seven years in a row, it was the same tail light for a Ford
truck or a Chevy truck or something like that.
Now every year they put a, you know, chrome band around, you know,
a plastic chrome band, I might add, but, or they do something a little different.
And, you know, tail lights now, I don't know if you've had to buy a headlight
or a tail light for a car that was built, you know, 2015 up.
You know, it can be a $1,300 piece before a headlight was six bucks, you know,
for the high beam and the low beam, when there are two different ones,
you buy, you know, buying for three bucks a piece or something like that.
So all that stuff has gotten a lot more expensive because cars have
gotten more specialized and that's part of the problem as well.
So, you know, people are restoring cars from the 2000s now because they're,
you know, they're cars that are worth it to do, but they're very, very expensive to do.
And part of it is generic parts, but you have to nail right on the head.
Why would you want to work on a car that's going to take you six months
to get all the parts when you can have something come in, do a, you know,
a quick repair on a 2024 something or a 2021 something or a 2015 something
that you can get the parts for and get it out of there, you know,
two days later or a day later.
So that's part of it.
And, and, you know, I keep going back to this, but, you know, I'm a, I'm a 1954 model.
I don't mind telling everybody I'm 71 years old.
When I was born, there was about 75 years of automobiles stretching it,
you know, going back to 1880, you know, something like that.
Really, realistically, the automobile became a thing, you know, let's call it 1900.
Well, now we're 2025.
So if, you know, I was born in 54, there was basically 50, 60 years of automobile history.
Now there's 125.
It's basically doubled.
So think about all the other models that have been made and everything else.
And that means all of these cars are always entering the collector car marketplace as well.
So, you know, there's all these factors working that way.
Being a child of the seven, I was, I was born in 69.
So a child of the 70s and 80s, you got certain cars that you have on the, on the
posters in the bedroom wall.
My dad had Corvette.
So I've always been kind of a Corvette guy.
I grew up around them, but also a child of the 70s and 80s, um, G body or G body
nine, 11s and, uh, Ferrari 308, you know, I, I could deny the Magnum PI thing.
But shit, we all saw that show.
And when I had the money a few years ago and I was shopping for another car, you
could get another number three 308 for 80 grand, give or take in there 75 or you
could buy a really super clean, nice 65, 66, small block Corvette convertible for
mid 60s to 70s, real clean.
You wouldn't have to do much to it.
Everything was in good shape.
And I started looking at them and I really wanted to get a 308.
God, I wanted a 308 and I almost fit in a 308.
And it just, I started looking at that and it, thankfully the 308 isn't one, you
can do the belt service without having to pull the engine out.
You just pull the rear passenger side tire and take out the, you know, all that stuff.
But a, but a Corvette's a small block Chevy.
You fix it with a hammer and a screwdriver and I just started looking at that and
thinking it's still an aspirational car for me, but it's so much easier to find the
stuff for the Corvette and granted, it's 60 years old now, but finding the parts again,
finding the parts for stuff really has become a challenge.
Everybody knows that I've got that big Mercedes that W 140 S 600.
You cannot find parts for that car and they made it from 1992 to 1999.
And that was a pretty fair run and you just cannot find W 140 parts out there.
And especially for that one, because it's kind of the specialty end of the W 140.
Man, you can't find anything.
There's nothing on the shelf.
There's nothing on the shelf and that's my daily.
So, you know, and, and the funny thing is in during this time period as well,
the internet, you know, had changed everything.
I mean, if you had to look for parts for old cars, you had to go to swap me.
Now the swap means are nowhere near as big.
I mean, some of them are still very popular and still good size.
But, you know, who wants to haul a fender and a couple of tires, you know, back to your car
when you can have the nice guy in the brown van.
You know, the UPS guy drop it off for you, you know, and, and yeah, you're going to pay more.
But the, you know, the selection is, is much bigger for a lot of that stuff.
Yet still we're facing that problem like you're facing with the Mercedes because
you know, the other thing is who's going to make it.
I mean, if you let's say there's a windshield surround molding that you and your buddy need,
you might be the only two people on the face of the planet who need it.
So that argues for, you know, for finding a parts car or finding, you know,
a used one or something like that.
But it doesn't argue for somebody going into business making a new one.
Keep in mind that, you know, your Corvette, the 65, 60, 63 through 67 Corvette,
the generation two Corvettes, C2s, there are still companies that make things for those cars
because there's a lot of demand.
But who's restoring that model Mercedes?
And that's another big deal.
Everybody was always saying it's going to be the electronics
because these cars have so much electronics in them.
That's not it.
That's not all of it.
It can be it.
But, you know, there's some real challenges with, with fixing, you know, the newer cars and
the tools involved and the skills.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
And like on the Mercedes, I'd like to repaint that car.
The paint's not bad, but there's a couple of panels where there's stuff on it
that needs to need some attention.
You can't find the moldings for the windows.
You can't.
Yeah.
But you can get the Mako presidential in February.
It usually goes on sale.
So maybe that's what.
Or you can get the ambassador.
I mean, you know, it's your choice.
I'm Earl Scheib and I can paint that Mercedes no matter how many parts you can't find.
99, 95.
99, 95.
That's right.
So back to the price guide.
Okay.
So what are the conclusions that you can, that can be drawn from Monterey Car Week and
the other stuff you've got in there this time around?
Hey, you know, the biggest conclusion I've already said is that, that a lot of stuff is
going down, not everything.
There's stuff that's going up and we can talk about some of those.
Some of the ones going down and some of the ones going up.
But the markets pick here, but people are still buying and selling and that's the good news.
So if you want a car that's going up this 2007 to 2012, the Porsche 911 Turbos.
I mean, they continue to go up against all odds.
I'm really mystified by the Porsche market.
Had been for a long, long time, but there's still the desire.
There's still the money and there's still the people who want to buy them.
C-Class Mercedes, speaking of Mercedes 70, 90, 92.
We've got the G-Wagons.
I'm sorry, G-Class.
I said C-Class.
My classes must not be working.
No, no.
The G-Class Mercedes are going up as well.
I know.
That's because I fell in love with them.
Damn it.
Yeah, there you go.
Were those the Mercedes you were showing me last week before the show?
The box.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The box.
Yeah, all right.
Yeah, you like them.
They drive like shit.
They're like, you know, they're from a different generation.
Oh, they get no mileage.
They get worse mileage than my car does.
All the reasons you want a Mercedes encapsulated one car that has no reasons that you really want
and that's why people love them.
I mean, you know, an aside here, I did an appraisal not too long ago on a very, very nicely
home done 1966 Bronco, Ford Bronco.
And I'm looking at it and I'm around and this guy's done a great job.
He farmed it out.
He was a general contractor on it and it looks really, really nice.
And it's worth about $30,000 less than what he has in it.
And that's that he did a lot of the labor himself.
He did the frame.
He did all that work himself.
And you're sitting there going realistically for this person who's not into old cars,
but likes the look of the old Bronco, he probably should have gone to the Ford dealer
and bought a new Bronco and got the warranty, the air conditioning that actually works,
you know, and all that sort of stuff.
And but, but that's, you know, I mean, that's the classic car market in a nutshell.
We buy the stupid stuff that doesn't work as well because it makes it happen makes us happy.
Sometimes that's the case.
And the G wagons, you can't deny they're great looking and they're a real statement.
And, you know, and I don't know what that statement is all the time.
But, you know, there's two of them here.
There was two in my neighborhood across the street from my office.
Um, two guys who had them and, you know, you just look at them and you'd wonder why they
did it, but they were just in love with the, the G wagon afford a lot of a lot of things.
But that's what they got.
There's one other reason I just found out about it this week.
Actually, Rhonda found it and she sent it to me because she knows I love those.
They've got a gross vehicle weight over 6,000 pounds.
So you can, if you use this for business, you can take it as a tax break.
Sure.
Even if, even if they're used.
So that's, every time I see one, I always think, okay, they're using it for business
or did they just want something that had the aerodynamic qualities of a carrier air conditioner?
And it's true.
It's true.
The thing is a big ass box.
It's a car that was originally designed for the German military that much like the,
the Humvee that should have never been made into a civilian vehicle.
They made it into a civilian vehicle.
And if you find the older ones, you can get the little stubby one,
short wheelbase with the back, the top goes down.
Makes it kind of like a Jeep, except a hell of a lot nicer.
I love the things.
I'd love to have one.
They're stupid expensive right now.
They're all, even the old ones are going up.
And again, will they get 10, nine miles a gallon?
Maybe?
Yeah, nine miles per gallon.
Yeah, exactly nine.
And I, I hate to make.
I hate to make this pun about the Porsches,
but you would have thought that the wave on the Porsches would have gone down by now
after the two ships that sank full of Porsches in the North Atlantic.
What was that 2020, 2021?
Yeah, it wasn't, it was a lot of, not a lot of nine 11s or a lot of SUVs,
but that's what they mostly sell these days.
Well, there was Porsches and Audis and there were some nine 11s
because I can remember the low Porsche dealerships saying that they lost a couple.
But since, since then, since COVID, nine 11s have been unnaturally strong
and they've even pulled up the older models.
Hell, nine 12s are expensive now.
Why in the hell are nine 12s expensive?
Well, I mean, there is an argument that having a Volkswagen engine in your Porsche
will save you when it comes time to do the rebuild, but even the nine 12 rebuilds,
I've seen people pay crazy money for.
So I don't know.
I mean, you know, like I said, I, I was doing a job for a Porsche dealer
and I was sarcastically saying, you got to tell me why people, you know,
pay $10,000 to have a leather gear shift boot and paint the sample wheel centers.
And his response was, I have no idea why they do, but I'm really happy they do.
And as a dealer, you can see that, you know, that was his complete explanation.
Yeah.
Some other good news, though, is a 79 93 Ford Mustangs.
Everybody loves Mustangs.
Oh, really?
It's a Volkswagen.
Yeah, this generate.
Yeah, this generation is up a little bit.
So that's doing well.
And, and from the really, really ridiculous to the stupid crazy ridiculous.
How about Dodge power wagons from 45 to 68?
You know, the car that sat behind every firehouse in every Midwest town
forever until it got restored because every fire, fire department had one for,
you know, for going into the forest and knocking down trees.
So those are up as well.
So I mean, there are some, some good news things out there.
And that's, we find that in every single book we're working now on the next edition
of the book, which comes out January one.
And I've been going over some prices and we've got some a few interesting cars
that have gone up in value.
You know, I really can't tell you, give you the preview, but some,
you know, some, you know, because everything's not finalized,
but some stuff that had been a little dead is revived a little bit.
So, you know, the market changes.
And that's the cool thing about markets is that, you know, every once in a while,
you'll, you'll denote some change and then you go asking yourself why.
And sometimes there is no why.
Sometimes there's no really good reason other than too many of them came on the market.
Now that's, speaking of Broncos, that's what happened to those, you know,
let's just generically say first generation, what 66 on to, I don't remember.
79, 77.
Yeah. The first generation, everybody got one, everybody restored it, everybody drove it,
everybody had their fun.
And now there's a whole bunch of really nice ones on the marketplace.
Well, there's too many on the marketplace and they don't sell.
Guess what happens?
The price goes down and that's what we're seeing.
Oh my.
Yeah.
What about the companies like Gateway Bronco that took first gen Broncos and turned them
into absolute luxury cars, made some electric ones, put modern Ford drivetrains in them,
was a whole lot more horsepower than they ever had now.
All right. Have you seen, do enough of those sell to even create a market for it?
Yeah. And what Vintage is another company that makes them, I guess, and there's a,
you know, there's 15 companies, I guess, that make them some more successfully than others.
I think they kind of transcend the marketplace, you know, much like a singer Porsche might,
or some of the other people who reimagine Porsches.
And these are Broncos that are reimagined as far as Actos.
They're in a different marketplace.
I don't think I would buy one expecting to make money off of it.
If you're shelling out what those things cost, you're probably unconcerned with resale.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, let's, I mean, without quoting any numbers, let's put it this way,
you can buy a pretty good house in some very nice Midwestern cities for what people pay for those.
Oh yeah.
So, you know, and that's, you know, a lot of the times people do it just because they can do it.
I mean, you know, and there's that in your face thing to some people, but for some people,
they've always wanted, you know, that status symbol, that things that to them says I've made it,
and it would be at a watch or be at a, you know, a French leather sofa or, you know, a designer
dress or, you know, something like that, you know, shoes or whatever. A lot of people know that
they're paying 17 times what they could pay for basic transportation, but that's part of the marketplace.
Designer dresses and shoes. Thy name is Balenciaga.
Yeah. If you've seen what any of that stuff goes for, holy cow.
You know, I mean, I love some of these brands that, you know, that there's a large purse company
that just absolutely floors me when I found out that the leather is actually vinyl. I was like,
you know, I was like, excuse me, I mean, am I missing something? I truly am missing something.
Says the guy with a very expensive Rolex watch. So these things happen.
I'm currently hiding my tag from them from the camera. So we have good news for some.
Talk about some things that have been hot and really aren't of late. The last quarter,
what's softening, what's slowing down? We have one very big surprise because it's a very much
blue chip car. The Bentley Continental 52 to 55, the R-Type Continental. Yeah, they're very,
very pretty. You know, funny story. No, at least to me, you all be the judge. I hated these cars
when I was a kid. They look like bad 1949 Bentley's to me. I mean, 49 Buick's to me. They had that,
you know, the fast pack look. I didn't understand the cars. And now I just love the looks up there.
And use the word organic. They really do look like they, you know, a mountain erupted and this
came out of the top of it. They looked like they were designed by Mother Nature and God himself
to me. But we're seeing some slippage in those cars, which is very, very surprising because it is,
you know, one of those blue chip cars. It's not a 300 SL. I'm not expecting that to happen to 300
SLs, particularly. And it could. But it's very surprising that we saw that we're seeing that.
Part of the problem is that the whole Bentley Enrolls, the vintage Bentley Enrolls market got
kind of oversaturated for a while. And I think that's part of it. But if I had the money, I would
definitely, you know, buy on the dip on the 53 to 55 R-Type Bentley. You know, keep in mind, it is
a performance car, but it's a performance car from your granddad's era. You know, this car is
built around the time I was born. And it's called the Continental for a reason. It was the car that
you would take on your trips, you know, from England to the continent. And it was, you know,
that car you could do 90 miles an hour all day long in, which was exceptional back in the day.
Speaking of cars from the fifties, 58 Chevy Bel Air and Pala, we're seeing some softness in those.
I'm not surprised. That's a very much an icon of the fifties. Although the 58 is different than the,
you know, the tri fives, the five, six and seven, they were always the weird car. The 58 is a one
year only body style. But I've always liked them. I thought that was the, you know, that part of
the beauty of it, that they had three cars that were, you know, redone here, redone there, redone
here, redone there for those three years. And then when they came out with the 58, it only lasted
one year. But I'm kind of surprised to see a little bit of slippage in that, but not crazy
surprise. 60 64 Ford galaxies, another one, not, you know, not a big down, but enough to note.
I'm going through the pages here. And 66 to 67 Dodge Charger, I think we were just talking about,
you know, Chargers. Mark this might be something kind of close. Maybe your time.
12% decrease on those. About the same as we're seeing, about the same as we're seeing for the
galaxy. So 1966. He's looking up right now. Casebook marketplace. Here we come, right?
Here we are. I'm telling you that fast back with some Kragers.
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, good looking car, very good looking cars. And then the last kind of
surprise is a little bit of surprise. 2004, 2009 Cadillac XLR. Really? Yeah. And I think,
well, I really don't know the reasons why, but I think it's because Tyler Hoover bought one and he
likes it. Oh, well, there you go. The who the who v the who v price differential is down,
down 11%. I like these cars. And I think that they've got a lot going for them. What's wrong
with the Cadillac with a, you know, Corvette underpinnings. Yeah, that's what I say too.
You know, it's getting at the age where the electronics are probably getting a little
but there's enough of them around and there was enough and there'll be enough parts cars
to keep these things going for a long time. I would say it has a really cool retractable
hard top. Yes, it does. And like all retractable hard tops, when it works, it's great. And when
it doesn't, it's a mess. It's raining and you want it up. So we're, we're seeing a bit of sales
slow down, you know, fewer auctions because we're coming into the holidays and Thanksgiving and
Christmas and, and everything else that we're going to have through December. But right after
the holidays, right after the first of the year. Yeah. Meekum Kasemi talking to the guys over there,
they're talking about approaching 5000 cars. Let's think about this. Okay. Let's put this in
perspective. Can you imagine being a title clerk working with 5000 sales of cars? Let's put it
in perspective. Let's put it in more perspective. Let's say your average, you know, mom and pop plus
car dealership does two cars a day. That's 60 cars. That's what 720 a year a year. Yeah.
They're talking about doing five times that five times six times that, you know, whatever. Yeah.
I mean, that's astonishing just from the paperwork. Almost seven times as much seven years were the
cars from your average midsize mom and pop plus car dealership. Yeah. So let's say that you have a
phenomenally successful LA dealership that sells Hondas. Okay. So you pump out 250 a month.
That's still, you know, what 3000 a year. Yeah. That's almost two years worth and they do it in
what 14 days? Yeah. 14 days. So I mean, I'm astonished and impressed. I mean, you know,
well, you know, the guys over at me come and so do I. And we've had,
gee, Sam or Gus or whoever's their, their head honcho now on the show before, and we've discussed
this and I've talked to David Morton about it too. And they say that they have so many people working
as, you know, it takes the back office of any dealership and multiply it by 30.
Yeah. Well, I'm sure they have 30 title clerks working there. I mean, you know, yeah, whatever.
And to keep in mind that way, you know, practically it was all cars, what every
seven, 10, 15 cars has a problem. Sure. Missing a missing signature, a digit that got registered
wrong. I mean, do you not, not problems like capital letter P problems, but, you know,
just something going forward that needs to be addressed. I mean, so if you do that math, it's
what 900 cars was something like that, 800 cars. I mean, it's astonishing. Well, think about the
pre-sale vetting. The guys who have to go out and inspect the cars and make sure they are as
advertised and they don't have really humongous things wrong with them, you know, and, and they
will actually run and get themselves across the block. And God almighty, what an undertaking.
And then, and then hard on just after that comes, there comes Bear Jackson, just, you know, boom.
And not the number of cars, but still a spectacular display of cars, you know, what,
2,025. Oh, yeah, folks, if you've never been to either, you owe it to yourself, go to Meekam
Kissimmee, go to Barrett Jackson, Scottsdale in January. You have to see it. It's, I don't want to
use the word circus, but it is the biggest stinkin show you've ever seen. And it's not just the sale.
Hundreds of vendors there selling everything under the sun, not just car stuff.
What was it? Matt Farrah said a couple years ago, he went to Barrett Jackson, Scottsdale,
and bought himself a really nice set of bamboo sheets for his bed.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, it's, it's, it's astonishing. And they have, you know, you know,
vibrating massage chairs. Oh, those are awesome. I love those.
Those exercise things where you stand on a platform and it shakes you like you're really
going to lose weight that way. Yeah. You know, I mean, all that, all that crazy stuff that,
it's a state fair. It's a, you know, it's a slice of America, both of them. Oh, yeah.
And I mean, as long as you have the right attitude, it's fun as hell. It really is.
Yeah. I mean, you know, I go the first day of Barrett every time I can, you know,
usually it's the Monday and they sometimes, I think they, they start on Sunday. I'm never
out there, but maybe it's Monday. And I go there and I walk the whole place. And back when I wasn't
walking like I'm walking, you know, I'd do four or five miles and I'd be exhausted. Oh, yeah.
Because, you know, I mean, you, and you realize when you're done with your four or five miles,
you've only seen, you know, you, you skipped half the rows. You have to go back the next day and,
and then, you know, and then by Friday, when you go back, there's cars that weren't there on Monday
because they just got shipped in and same thing. Well, it's certainly the same thing for a semi.
I mean, you know, that's, it's just astonishing. So the big, big, big sales are always in January
now. And like I said, I'm, I'm in awe and astonishment of them. Now, let me just,
let's, let's get off subject just a little bit, but not at all. Auctions.
I love auctions. I've always loved auctions. I don't think there's anything nefarious about them.
I don't think there's anything wonderful about them. I think there just is auctions. I mean,
there, you know, they're online and that's taken over, done a lot of stuff, but you really have
to go to a car auction to understand a little bit more about the car world. There are people
who say, I will never buy a car at auction. That's fine. That's fine. There are people who only buy
cars at auction and that's fine too. You know, I like to tell everybody that, you know, I bought
a bunch of cars from auctions. I bought a bunch of cars from private individuals and I bought a
bunch of cars from dealers. And to be real honest with you, the ones I've got screwed the most on
were from private individuals. With the auction, at least most auction companies vet their cars.
What you're buying is some version of what you think you're buying. And with dealers,
the same thing. These people have a reason to stay in business. I'm not saying that
everything's above board and everything's as it should be, but I'd rather buy a car from an
auction than go into a mattress store and buy a mattress. I'll tell you that.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things about auctions, being in person that you miss
online, and I can't say anything bad about bringing a trailer, I bought four cars from them so far.
Oh yeah. And I'm also not allowed to take my dad to real auctions anymore.
But fortunately, mom can't see much and we do own warehouses, so I'll keep taking him.
There you go. One of the things about being at an auction is your other senses come into play.
It's not just the pictures. You can smell it. You can touch it. You can hear it.
I love people watching and I love people. Oh, God, yes. There's no better place to people
watch than an auction. The second best is probably an NBA game or an NFL game,
because some people dress up for them and some people are at their worst or their best or whatever.
But at auctions, you meet all these personalities and boy, is the car world full of personalities.
And I mean, and that is a capital letter. We may have to take this out if you know who it is,
but I think if I describe the guy to you, you will know immediately who I'm talking about.
And we've both seen him. He's been at the bigger auctions. He's probably 5859.
He looks like he's got a permanent tan on him. He's blonde haired and he wears the most outlandish
Ralph Lauren or Nautica. He wears, he wears go to hell pants. So where are the pants that got
like the horse and rider all over him, the polo pants? Who is that guy? Who is that guy?
And he'll have a Louis Vuitton man bag on him and a big Rolex. Do you know who I'm talking about?
I know who you're talking about, but I don't know his name. I've seen him before,
but I don't, I don't know who that is. Now, there is another guy who dresses outrageously
at the big auctions, but he doesn't meet that physical description. Okay. And I know who that
is. And well, to that end, I always like seeing the people who really dress up for it, throw on
all the bling they got and come out and show everybody what they got at home. And that's as
much fun as the cars. And then there's Magnus. When you go to the auctions, everyone's willing to
see him and you know, he dresses completely differently. And he's there with Hannah, his
girlfriend. And they're quite a statement in themselves. But the fun part is all the
you meet some guy, he's missing a couple of teeth, he's wearing overalls, whatever.
And he leaves and your buddy says, you know who that was? And you go, no, I don't. Well,
he owns a chain of tire stores from Tijuana to Seattle, Washington. And he's a billionaire.
And you're more likely to meet, you know, some people like that. There are just a lot of that.
You know, he came here in his G5 Gulfstream and he's leaving tonight because he's got a board
meeting in, you know, in Paris or something. It's just an unusual thing because it's a great mix
of people. There's people there who are there dreaming and they can't afford a car. And I love
that. And there's people there who could buy, you know, 50 of the next 75 cars and, you know,
they wouldn't miss a beat. So there you are. God bless America. I mean, it's a good cross
session of what we have out there every single day. It's personalities. It's fun. It's fun.
Well, that's the car world. That's what I love about it. I mean, how many great connections
have we made because of all of this? Oh, yeah. I mean, I have business cards from people who are,
you know, like leaders of industry and all that. And I've had clients who've, you know,
the same thing. And it's just, it's really fun to, you know, to be involved in that sort of thing.
One of the super interesting people that you and I got to talk to was at that couple's really
beautiful house in Monterey at a brunch. It's been five or six years ago. And Ped was with me.
And she was, I think a doctor, a lady who was telling us about how they did metallic paint
immediately post-war. And we were discussing that they use fish scales, but it had to be a
real specific fish from a real specific place. And they tried to use the fish scale on the same
fish caught in a different region and the paint didn't come out right. What was that lady's name?
It was a Gilda or something? No, you're close. Yeah, this is Dead Air and we don't want that,
do we? No, but Mark's a magician. He can edit it out. You're very, very close. It's not Gilda,
but it's, and she's a paint specialist. She's European. Yeah. And she was brilliant. If you
hadn't said Gilda, I would have gotten it because her name came up in the conversation just last week.
It's your damn fault. Yeah, well, I've got a business card upstairs.
It's very, very close. And she is responsible for surfaces. She can see if she can find ways
to replace surfaces. I mean, you know, there are people who are going around buying old leather
like from farmers, like from saddles and things like that. So for patch pieces or for redoing
an interior of a car to make it look authentic. Well, we were talking to Jonathan Ward of Icon
here probably a year or so ago and he was discussing how he had been buying lots of vintage fabrics
and leathers and stuff like that and talking about the stuff he was making with it. It was
just fascinating. And again, much like the fantastic lady who neither of us can remember
her name right now because we're both old. She was brilliant. That was the most fascinating
conversation and I'm sitting there eating eggs and I'm trying to pay attention to what she's saying.
She was so sharp and I was so fascinated with that and I didn't want the brunch to end. I wanted
to keep listening to what she had to say. Yeah, no, there's some just fascinating people and
more and more, you know, the old car world is very similar to the fine arts world. And so,
these are the people that I've met before in the world of fine arts that repair artwork that's
400 and 500 years old and has a tear in it and all that sort of stuff. And the skill set that
they have is just unbelievable and it takes months and months and months to repair a simple piece
sometimes. But, you know, if you have to have it right, you have to have it right. I talked to some
people repairing an airplane at the Smithsonian years ago. They had like an open house at the,
it's called the Edvard Hazy Museum out here by Dulles Airport. And the airplane was a German
plane made in World War II and the wood was used and it was a wood plane. It was beach
and I was talking to her and I said, how much further up the mountain do you have to go to
find the beach that is appropriate? And she looked at me and she said, how did you know to ask that
question? And I said, well, because, you know, climate change, the stuff that is probably down
where they were finding it is a different graining than the stuff that's up in the mountains. And
she said, that's exactly right. And that's important because you don't want to have, you know, and
you're a lumber guy. You don't want to have the wrong grain on something when you're trying to
restore it. I don't know if it's a safety reason or it's just an aesthetic reason. But I mean,
there are people who spend their time thinking about that with automobiles and I think it's great.
Well, a lot of the old cars had a lot of wood in them and a lot of the other planes had a lot of
wood in them. And yeah, I'm going to lapse into a lumber guy here for a second. There's something
called... And that's okay. There's something called first growth, second growth, third growth. And
for those of you out there, for those of you out there who think the lumber business is just
destroying the planet, it's not so. We're very aware of what it takes to continue doing what we
do. So when trees are cut down, they are immediately replaced. New trees are put in their place. But
those older trees are first growth trees. The grain is different. The density is different.
And unbelievable. That's why you have to go farther up the mountain to find the right trees
because they will be older. And the density and the structural rigidity in the wood is different
from the ones that have been... And the second growth trees can be 80 or 90 years old,
but it hasn't had the time to compress, to grow, to be more dense. And that's what you're talking
about. I finally finished my first appraisal for money. Holy crap that I learned a lot from that.
I also made a lot of mistakes. I gave the guy a pretty hefty discount for it.
You got me into this. You've been doing this for a long time. How has the appraisal business
changed since you started? And when did you start? How long have you been doing this?
I started U.S. appraisal in 1990 and doing the math. That's 35 years. And I will tell you that
my very first appraisal, I am not proud of it all. And I made plenty of mistakes.
Good. I don't feel as bad. Yeah. Let that be your guide. If I had to see it,
it would be one of those, please, can I just take the cyanide capsule now?
But the good news is that I throw everything away after seven years. You're only required to
keep it for five years. So that's important to note as well. But interestingly, what's changed
is research. I mean, the big thing is that there was no internet in 1990 to speak of. I mean,
there was, yes, but everything is available now. I'm doing research on a car that might or might
not have had a history from a very famous person. And I was able to actually ask chat GPT for the
basics on whether this person might have owned this car. And it was shockingly surprising
how quick it came up with an answer. It might not be right. But it led me to a catalog for an
auction that would have taken me weeks to find that a car that was owned by this person that was
similar, but not this car. So I was able to actually say, no, the chances are excellent that
this person did not own this car. However, he owned one from a generation before in the same
color. So I could see where somebody could make a mistake. I mean, you know, and you couldn't
have done that in 1990 because well, number one, number one, the auction sale took place in 2005.
So that would have been impossible. But the access to information is just amazingly changed.
And so, you know, our price guide is now online. The Hegerty price guide is only online. We don't
print anymore for a variety of reasons. I went kicking and screaming into that, but I completely
understand the reason why. So we have that information online. And, you know, it's available.
Just go to hegerty.com and you can search the valuation tools. And that's where it is. But that
is absolutely a shining example because there was no online valuation tool in 1990 or even 2000.
It's a big change. And now pretty much everything is available online. You have to vet it very
closely. There's bad information out there. But that's what we're paid to do to hopefully weed
out the bad and only report the good or report the bad as something that could be suspect.
Keep in mind that, you know, appraisers, as everybody should know, we are valuers,
but we're not authenticators. And a lot of people think appraisers authenticate things.
There are basically two types of cars I can authenticate because I've been around them for
years and nobody wants to pay me to authenticate a Studevick or Avani. So, you know, and that's,
and that, you know, that is a problem. But if you want to find out something that is,
whether it's authentic or not, you go to an authenticator. We can find out the history
as known on cars. And that's something that's been harder now that this information is out there.
You made a couple of phone calls in 1990. You might have shot off an email to somebody
and on your AOL address or your, you know, whatever it was back in 1990. And, you know,
a couple of days later when that person bothered to check their email once a week,
you might get an answer back. But now it's instantaneous. So that's one thing that's
happened. And that's the big thing. I think the other thing is that the customer rightly so was
more demanding than they were. And they want more information, they want more depth. So that's,
that's pretty much the biggest change in the, in the world of automobile appraisals.
Are you allowed to talk about what you just did? Or is that under wraps still?
Well, generically, I can talk about it. What do you mean?
Well, you told me you just came back from doing the largest appraisal you've ever done.
Yeah, I did. And it's a, it's a large collection. I'm not going to say who it was,
but it was no, no, no, you never, you never could. And we never wouldn't, but just discuss how big the
sucker was. I was damn close to 120 cars. And all of them are. Yeah, exactly. All of them good cars.
And all of them, you know, museum quality. And I hired, I have a film that who works with me who
did a standing job while we were on site there, kind of being the general contractor, let's say.
And I hired two other appraisals, other appraisers who are also ASA people and kept them busy for
four days looking at cars. Now, keep in mind, everybody thinks that's the hard part. It's
the hard part if you don't, if you can't stand for an entire day or don't like, you know,
don't like getting under cars and taking pictures and things like that. But that's just the beginning.
The real work starts as soon as you get back to the office and putting together a 120 car
appraisal, you know, we'll go back to what Mecom does and how in awe of them or Barrett Jackson
and getting all that stuff done, you have to have separate files for everything. You have to make sure
that, you know, every, every car has its own folder, has its own folder on your desktop or,
you know, however you're working laptop. And it's, you know, it's a very big challenge. And it's
something that will keep me busy through February. So yeah, at least you're going to be shucking and
jiving to get all that stuff done by then. You know, Dave, again, publicly, I want to thank you
for getting me into ASA. And then I want to say, damn, that's a lot more work. Well, yeah,
you know, it's like everything, you know, everything looks easy until you have to do it.
Oh, yeah. Any, any business you've ever been involved in, you know, we'll go back to lumber,
you know, some guy comes in, he wants a two by four. Well, does he? Number one, there's no such
thing as two by four anymore. They're not two by four anymore. I haven't been for years. Yeah. And
there's your basic. And so, you know, if the guy gets his tape out and says, wait a minute,
you're cheating me, this isn't two by four, then you have a little education summit. You have to
but, you know, you have to know what the application for is even in doing something like
that. And the the right guy who knows his product is a lot different than the guy who's just gotten
into it for, you know, for fun or for, you know, making a few extra bucks or whatever. We take our,
you know, our jobs very seriously and and we get paid a professional rate for doing a professional
job. Yeah. Well, like I said, there are plenty of things that I didn't do the way I should have.
And I kind of struggled my way through, gave the guy a hell of a discount. And at some point,
I want to sit down and discuss with him. Hey, thank you for hiring me for my first job.
I'm sorry. Well, no, I mean, you know, you, you, I mean, you're learning is, you know,
learning from your mistakes is the is the is the best way to learn. And, you know, like you said,
you gave him a discount and everything. And I don't know what the, you know, what the job was or
what the assignment was or whatever. But, you know, it, it's one of those things that you,
there is a lot of OJT, you know, on the job training that you have to do. And, you know,
I would, I would suggest that you lean on others. You, you, you know, you give me a call or you
give some of the other people in our, our group a call and ask them the questions. That's the
best thing to do. And that'll, that'll help you. We've all made the mistakes. Every single one
of us, we all continue to make the mistakes. We can only be better. And keep in mind that we are
giving an opinion of value when we do an appraisal. We're not telling them, you know, we're not
telling them what that car is going to sell for when it goes to the auction on next Thursday.
We'll give an opinion of what we think it's going to go for. But if those two, you know,
those two Uber rich guys who are interested in it, decide that they have something better to do
that week, and then guess what? It's not going to make what you, what you say. Or if those same
two Uber rich guys decide that they don't want the other guy to have it, and they just want to
throw money around, then it can go for a lot more. One of my favorite things that happens at
auctions, I like to see two guys get in a measuring contest and decide, Oh, no, you don't. I'm having
this. And the big winner of that is always the seller. Oh, absolutely. They're, they're salivating
as well. They should be. We've been speaking with Dave Kenny, publisher of the Haggerty Price Guide.
And really a fan, a fantastic friend. I've really enjoyed being friends with you, Dave.
Please tell us where we can find you online and on social media.
You can get me at DHKinney at gmail.com at any time. My business is US appraisal and my other
business is the Haggerty Price Guide. You can reach me through there. I'm occasionally now on
Facebook. I've taken a Facebook diet. Since I started my real diet, I've taken a Facebook
diet because everything's crazy and you can prove it by just opening Facebook. But that's also a
way to take a look at where I am. I guess I'm occasionally on Blue Sky and occasionally on
LinkedIn. So those are other places you can find me. Dave, I appreciate it. Thanks for being
with us and always appreciate the, the guidance. It's my pleasure and thank you very much. And
we will see you maybe right after January. We'll have some more news for you.
Always good to have Dave Kenny on. Yeah, it's such a nice guy. He's knowledgeable and he's friendly
and he didn't give me much crap this time around, although I kind of like it when he does.
Yeah. He's got that sharp sense of humor. Well, he does. He's really sharp and he's good at
rasping me and I like it. It's fun. But he always has so much good stuff. And again,
he did get me into ASA. Yeah. And this is a cool job, even though I'm just getting started.
And automobile sickos anonymous. Yeah, that's us. That's us. The 12 shift method.
You wouldn't believe all the classes I had to go to. Remember last summer? Yeah, I remember.
It's called 55 pages of notes. Nice. I wore out some legal pads going through that class.
It may even be more than that. Anyway, always great to have Dave on. Thank you so much. I
appreciate it. Well, I have to get him right after the first of the year when the new book comes out.
But dude, I didn't know that he started the Haggerty Price Guide. Yeah. He wasn't,
he wasn't just part of it and writing it. No, he was the originator and publisher. It was smart,
dude. Well, think about how much stuff you got to track to do that. Yeah, they track every stinking
thing and he's really good at what he does and he really, really knows his stuff. And there's
a reason we keep having him back. So Dave, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. And thank you
for spending time with Driven Radio. We love what we do and we wouldn't be able to do it without the
support of our listeners and some of our guests harassing us. You can find us online at Driven
Radio Show.com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at Driven Radio Show and on LinkedIn
as Driven Radio Show podcast. If you have a story you would like to tell or someone you would like
us to interview, please contact me at Brett. That's B-R-E-T-T at DrivenRadioShow.com. I am Brett
Hatfield for Mark L. Groves. Yo. Thank you for listening. You know, sometimes I rush through
your name. Everybody thinks your name's Markel. M-A-R-K-E-L-L-L-E. My name is Markel Groves.
Markel. I've even thought about saving you that way on my phone, but I would necessarily say
calling Mark 50 Groves. No idea why she decided to do that. That's Roman, isn't it?
Roman numerals. Yeah, she thinks your name's Fitty. That's my Julius Caesar heritage.
Well, Fitty, appreciate what you do. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening. We'll
see you next time here on Driven Radio. Welcome to the house of hell, yes. Casamigos at 159th
and Merlin serves up some of the best Mexican food this side of Mexico. It's a Driven Radio Show
favorite for after the show. We've been there. And before. Yeah. And something during if we can
get away with it. Not wrong. Jose Villasenor, the owner, makes food the old-fashioned way.
You know, delicious. Oh, yeah. Remember that? Uh-huh. Plus he has a little red corvette,
so we already like them. I saw that in your garage. And a little brown corvette. Yeah,
I'm helping. I'm helping. You're so kind. I'm taking out and trade for chips and salsa.
It's smart, man. Did I mention the food? Oh, yeah, that huge menu and margaritas that are pleased
to meet you. Order takeout, dine in, eat on the patio. It's all good. It is. Service is awesome.
Seriously, it's the only restaurant I've been to where the owner comes out and gives me a hug.
Make the drive to Casamigos at 159th and Merlin and Olathe, Kansas. Check them out online at
CasamigosKC.com, living la vida local. Casamigos, where flavor is your friend. See? See?
You know, Daryl Ossipic might just be the most interesting man on earth. Might be. If you look
at his collection of vehicles, you'll realize this is a Renaissance man from weird old beaters to
serious performance hot rods. All in one place. Owner of Ossipic Automotive, Daryl is the car
whisperer practicing voodoo that brings vehicles back from the dead. Just for, for us here on this
show. Uh-huh. Daryl is working on Mercury Mountaineer. Yeah. Classic Corvettes. Oh, yeah.
Nissan Xterra. Mine. Unusual Mercedes. Yours. And a 64 Dodge Custom 880. Neither of ours anymore.
Not no, Mo. But you know why it ran? Daryl Ossipic. That's right. In other words, we come to him
with our whining issues and he comes back to us with shiny fixed automobiles. It is like magic.
Daryl has ASE certified mechanics and happily gives binding estimates. You might not know he's happy,
but that might be because he sees us coming in here and it erases all of his joy. Yeah,
you'll watch that face drop. Daryl will explain what he finds, what he plans on doing and lets you
make your decisions. Nothing hidden. No mechanic bait and switch. He's straight up and even guarantees
all work for at least one month or 1000 miles. Yeah. Ossipic Automotive. That's OSI, PIK, Automotive,
5920 Merriam Drive in Merriam, Kansas called Daryl at 913-831-3613. What was that number? 913-831-3613.
Don't even have to read it. It's been in my head for a while now.
That's that dude on the back of my skull. Ask for the big D and tell him Brett sent you.
After he sighs heavily. And he will. He'll get you taken care of 913-831-3613 Ossipic Automotive.
About this episode
Dave Kinney, publisher of the Hagerty Price Guide, joins the Driven Radio Show to discuss the current state of the classic car market. The conversation covers trends in car values, with insights into what’s hot and what’s not, including notable sales from Monterey Car Week. Kinney shares his expertise on appraisals, the impact of restoration costs, and the challenges of sourcing parts for vintage vehicles. The hosts also delve into personal car stories and the unique characters found at car auctions, making for an engaging and informative episode for automotive enthusiasts.
50% off sales
belt service
Callaway
car auction
Chrome restoration
Craiger's
G-body platform
generic parts
headlight flasher
high beam switch
Bentley R-Type Continental
Cadillac XLR
Chevrolet Bel Air
Chevrolet Corvette
Chrysler Imperial
Chrysler New Yorker
Dodge Charger
Dodge Custom 880
Dodge Power Wagon
Ferrari 308 GTS
Ford Bronco
Ford Galaxie 500
Ford Mustang
Ford Thunderbird
Mercedes-Benz C-Class
Mercedes-Benz G-Class
Mercedes-Benz SL
Mercury Mountaineer
Nissan XTerra
Porsche 911
Seat Cordoba
Original notes
Brett and Mark welcome Dave Kinney, founder and publisher of the Hagerty Price Guide to discuss sketchy Facebook Marketplace buys, market indicators from Monterey Car Week, the difficulties of restoring vintage cars, cars that used to be affordable, bargain Bentleys, the massive undertaking of big collector car auctions, and so much more all on Driven Radio Show!
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Driven Radio Show
Brett Hatfield
0:00
77:47