Body work refers to repairing and shaping the car’s body panels—often to fix damage, rust, or misalignment. In the collector-car world, it’s frequently paired with paint and trim work to restore the car’s original appearance.
Upholstery is the interior work—like redoing seats and other fabric or leather surfaces. For classic cars, it’s often about making it look authentic, not just new.
Here, paint means the full process of preparing the surface and applying a high-quality finish. On collector cars, the goal is usually to match the original look and last a long time.
Concept
trimmers
Trimmers are the people who work on the car’s interior finishing pieces. They help make sure everything fits and looks right, especially on classic restorations.
This means the world of older “hobby” cars—places that fix them, restore them, and keep them running. It’s not just regular car repair; it’s specialized work for cars people collect.
Restoration is when someone brings an older car back to how it should be—working properly and looking right. It usually takes real practice, not just school.
Concept
experience
They’re saying that school helps, but real experience is what really teaches you how to handle problems. In car work, you learn a lot from doing the job and seeing what goes wrong.
Lubricated means putting the right kind of grease or oil on moving parts so they don’t grind and wear out. Getting it wrong can cause the part to fail.
Restoration staff are the people dedicated to returning cars to an earlier, correct condition—often involving disassembly, repair, fabrication, and reassembly. The host frames the NB Center as having full-time restoration staff supporting its on-site vintage collection.
Engine rebuilding means fixing an engine by taking it apart, replacing worn pieces, and putting it back together so it runs right again. It’s a key service for restoring older cars.
Bvlgari is an Italian jewelry company. The NB Center is named after Nicola Bvlgari, and the host says his passion for American cars helped create the place.
“Middle market” means cars aimed at regular buyers, not the ultra-luxury stuff. The host is saying the collection prioritizes these more common models because they influenced how cars were designed and built.
This is a specific 1937 Nash model called the Lafayette Coupe. The host is saying it’s a great-looking, fully restored example—and that restoring it can cost a lot more than most people would think for a car that isn’t a top-tier “headline” classic.
These are two ways collectors keep old cars from falling apart. Restoration is bringing the car back to a like-new or correct condition, while preservation is about keeping what’s already there and preventing further deterioration.
Engine building means taking an engine apart and rebuilding it properly, usually with new or reconditioned internal parts. It’s more involved than routine service and is meant to make the engine run correctly again.
A machine shop is a specialized repair shop that uses precision tools to reshape and finish metal parts. For cars, they often work on engine parts so they fit and function correctly.
An independent repair shop is a regular auto repair business that isn’t tied to a specific car brand’s dealership. They diagnose problems and fix cars, but some shops avoid older cars.
Boring a cylinder means using a machine tool to enlarge and smooth the inside of an engine cylinder to the correct size. It’s usually part of an engine rebuild when the cylinder is worn out.
The parts supply chain is how replacement parts get made and delivered to repair shops. For older cars, those parts may be harder to find or take longer to get.
The Dodge Charger is a car made for performance, with a bigger engine and a sporty feel. In the podcast context, it sounds like the Charger is being kept ready to drive by using a battery charger so it starts reliably. That way, you can get in and drive without waiting for the battery to recover.
This is a very old Dodge from 1935. The host is saying it’s not the rarest or most famous car, but it’s restored to a high standard and is worth seeing in person.
They’re talking about a 1950 Chrysler Town & Country, a luxury-style classic from Chrysler. The big deal here is that it has extremely low mileage and still has original-looking materials like the paint and wood.
It means how many miles the car has been driven since it was brand new. A very low number usually suggests less driving wear, but an older car that sat a lot still needs a careful check.
They mean the wood trim inside the car is still the original factory material. Keeping it intact is a big deal on older luxury cars because it’s part of what makes the interior look authentic.
“Numbers matching” means the car’s important parts are still the original ones from the factory. Collectors like it because it suggests the car hasn’t been heavily swapped or rebuilt.
Car
Pontiac Streamliner 8 Woody station wagon
This is a classic Pontiac station wagon with a “Woody” style, meaning it has wood-style panels on the outside. The interesting part here is that it’s very well preserved and has a clear history.
Independent front suspension means the left and right front wheels can react to bumps separately. That usually makes the car feel smoother and helps it keep steering more consistently.
“Action suspension” is the name Buick used for its independent front suspension system on the 1934 model year. The term here matters because it’s a brand-specific label for a specific suspension design, not just a generic description of suspension.
The Cadillac V16 is an old luxury car made by Cadillac. It’s called “V16” because it has sixteen cylinders in its engine, which was unusual for its time. In the podcast, it’s brought up as a special exception because it doesn’t follow the more typical pattern being discussed.
Miles Collier is mentioned as a writer who described these cars and their driving feel. The host uses his book to back up the idea that the Buick surprised everyone as the best driver.
A limousine is a longer, more formal car usually driven by a chauffeur. Here, they’re saying these Vatican cars were official and ceremonial rather than meant to be fast.
This is a very old Nash car—specifically a 1940 Nash Ambassador A convertible. The interesting part is that it’s so rare that the restoration group says they only know of one surviving example.
Rust is a big problem on old cars. If the body is “incredibly rusty,” it usually means the metal is badly corroded and the restoration will require a lot of repair work.
This is a 1934 Chrysler called the Airflow. They’re working on restoring a pair of these coupes, and the Airflow name is tied to Chrysler’s early push toward better aerodynamics.
“Extant” just means “still around.” In car collecting, it’s a way to talk about how many surviving cars still exist today. The hosts use it to count how many Airflow coupes are left.
This is a 1955 Chrysler 300. It’s a classic, stylish car that’s known for having real power. The host also hints there’s something hidden about this one—things that aren’t obvious just by looking.
“Looks stock” means it looks like it’s still the way it came from the factory. The host is saying this car seems normal at first glance, even if there are subtle differences underneath.
A 3D scan is like taking a detailed “digital copy” of a real object. In this case, they scanned the underside so they could build a race chassis that matches the body.
A “Hellcat” is a Dodge with a very strong V8 engine. Here, the builder used the engine and transmission setup from a 2014 Hellcat and put it into a custom race car.
“Drivetrain” is the collection of components that send power from the engine to the wheels, typically including the transmission, driveshaft(s), differential, and related parts. In a custom race build, swapping in a drivetrain from another car is a major engineering decision because it affects weight, fitment, and how the car puts power down.
Fuel runners are the channels that move fuel from the fuel system into the engine. Better design helps the engine get fuel to the cylinders more evenly.
Horsepower is a way to describe how much “power” the engine can make. More horsepower usually means the car can accelerate harder, especially when paired with good handling.
Concept
speed distance endurance rally
This sounds like a rally where you’re timed and expected to keep going for a long distance, not just do one fast run. The “endurance” part matters because you have to stay steady and handle tough conditions for the whole event.
Car
1917 peerless open cockpit speedster
This is a very old (1917) Peerless car with an open cockpit, meaning you sit out in the open instead of being protected by a full windshield or roof. The host brings it up to show what it’s like to drive an early car in real rally conditions, especially in heavy rain.
A windshield is the front glass that helps keep wind and rain off you while you drive. In this story, the lack of a full windshield makes the rain feel much worse and more dangerous.
“On the clock” means you’re being timed, like you have to hit certain checkpoints by certain times. It’s not just about finishing—it’s about how fast you do it.
The Buick Century is a regular, mid-size sedan meant for everyday driving. The podcast mentions one that had low miles but still started rusting badly. Rust like that can be a big problem because it can affect the body and sometimes the car’s structure.
LIVE
You're going to love this driven radio show.
Thanks for listening to Driven Radio Show.
Here's part two of the John Klinger interview for a guy who's been
through the restoration program and is now on the National Advisory Board
and the Board of Trustees.
What makes the auto restoration program different from traditional trade school?
What differentiates this program from most trade schools is because it's a four-year bachelor's degree.
And McPherson College, for those of the listeners who aren't aware,
it's a four-year private level art school.
And it has all the programs and departments you think of,
business program, fine arts, the humanities, sciences, they got a health sciences program, on and on.
And they also happen to have this truly unique one-of-a-kind automotive restoration degree program that's a four-year.
Now, there are other schools and trade programs that have programs that I would say are adjacent to automotive restoration,
you know, building on, let's say, an automotive body and collision course or a technician course.
They have these additional restoration type classes.
And many of them are great and that makes sense for an awful lot of people.
What absolutely sets McPherson College apart is it is a true four-year program.
You know, so there's the foundational skills that the students are introduced to as far as all aspects of automotive restoration,
but there's also the business classes, if that's the track they want to take.
There's a history track, if you want to take that.
You know, all of this kind of tied into it, but, you know, in order to succeed in the workforce,
yeah, you have to have the talent and the ability to do the work.
But if you're in any sort of customer interactions or people management or running a business,
you've got to have those soft skills, too, like all the way.
I mean, there's so many stories of starving artists who are just talented at what they do,
but they, you know, they are deficient in all the other areas it takes to either be successful as individuals or run a business.
So that's really what sets this program apart.
What excites you most about the future of the program?
Well, as you and I just enjoyed recently, this is the 50th anniversary of that restoration.
I was so, so proud of the school and proud to be a part of it, unveiling the expansion plans for the automotive restoration facilities
and the newly, well, the yet to debut, it's currently being developed, mechanical engineering program,
which would be a brand new program with that at McPherson College.
And I think that the automotive restoration program is going to benefit handsomely from that program.
And also the mechanical engineering program, you know, the mechanical engineering students to be able to apply some of what they're learning
and thinking to help solve issues in the classic car space.
You know, the two are going to compliment each other really nicely.
And actually, I'm like, wow, I wish I had some of these classes when we were students.
Yeah, it's kind of weird to look back at what it's become and think, man, can I come back?
Oh, yeah.
I'd like to come back.
Sure.
There's a bunch of cool new stuff.
I'd like to come back and try.
And yeah, I really love watching the program grow.
But there's a bunch of crap they're going to do now that I wish I could have done when we were there.
That's right.
That's right.
Oh, yeah.
That building expansion is.
Oh, well, that's that's so needed.
Oh, it was so long time.
You know, I had to give the college credit because, you know, just to be blunt, those shop spaces, they're tired.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's I mean, I can tell you when the last time the floors of walls and ceilings were painted, it was I think it was 2005.
I was working there because, you know, and that project in total cost $300,000, you know, which now I mean, it would be how many times that.
I know it's multiples.
But.
You know, this is where I get the college credit, though, because even though it's easy to say that while they those labs really needed to be repainted, you know, 68 maybe even 10 years ago, what a lot of higher education institutions, they make a gamble and it can turn into a
mistake where they take the philosophy.
If we build it, they'll come and the college has done the exact opposite.
They have built up the credibility and the reputation and and the just the respect for this program.
And now that that's there, they're ready to, you know, rightly so really invest in the facilities and take them to the next level.
So yes, they were tired.
Yes, they desperately need to be refreshed, but that's just part of it.
You know, the fact that the square footage is going to, I don't know if it's going to quite double give or take, but it's it's massive.
Isn't it just the last few years that they've had to turn some students away because the program's grown so rapidly?
Yeah, well, it's a wait list of, I mean, they've had the last several years, it's a wait and it's not like two or three or five.
I mean, there's, you know, one year it was 40 another year it was 60 students who met the criteria to be accepted, but they had to wait list them.
So, you know, it's a it's a blessing and a curse because on one hand, who would love to be in that situation where your demand significantly outstrips, you know, the available spots.
But, you know, I feel bad for those young students who, again, otherwise qualified, but, you know, there's just that there's only so many limited spots.
So that's part of what this expansion will do to allow the school to have the flexibility to admit more students that without making the place feel cramped and overpopulated.
Well, and it may not only be that the program, you know, it's it's much better known than it was when we were there.
Oh, absolutely.
And, you know, part of that was your effort. A lot of that was Amanda's effort.
Oh, Amanda is.
She's done remarkable things with the program.
Yes, she has.
Yes, she has.
I see her at events throughout the year and she is very highly respected and has been just a tremendous ambassador for that program.
And has managed to put the program in an entirely new light.
So part of it may not just be that the school didn't have the facilities for it.
We're a hell of a lot better known than we were.
And there are a lot more people who are coming to it.
And that kind of dovetails into the next question or maybe sounds contradictory.
There's a growing shortage of skilled traits people in the world.
There are fewer people out there working with their hands.
So what opportunities exists for the young people interested in automotive restoration?
Well, I mean, you, you, you said it right there is there are more people exiting this workforce as far as doing the hands on then then can fill it.
I mean, in my situation at the MB center, we have, I mean, you go to our website, we have an open position for an experienced fabricator.
Have an open position for someone to restore gauges and instruments.
You know, for the right person, we'd, we'd bring in another machinist.
And, and so these are now we're not in a desperate situation to fill these, but thinking from a succession standpoint, that's why these positions are posted.
And, and, and that's just speaking to, you know, I'm just, this is just a sample of one.
If you, I'm speaking to you listener, if you or someone, you know, a child, grandchild friend or whatever, think they want to work on old cars as part of their career.
There are many restoration shops that are eager to bring on.
And it's not just the restoration shops. There's a growing frustration and I don't have the solution.
And we also could talk for hours on end of this is actually the parts supply chain is getting more challenging in this.
Look at the, you know, I referenced a gauge restorer.
So this guy, John Wolf gauges John Wolf and company.
He was very well known for restoring speedometers, fuel gauges, temper gauges, temperature gauges, that type of stuff.
You know, he suddenly had a health event a few years ago that he had to retire.
And we saw it as an opportunity to try and save this.
And so we acquired his equipment.
And he's, he's, you know, he's actually recovered quite nicely, but he's, he's out of the business now and he spent a week with us training us on all the equipment.
And, you know, that's a business that we, we absolutely intend to stand up when we get the right person hired.
But I haven't found the right person yet.
I got a little time on the weekends.
Hey, come on out to Eastern Pennsylvania.
And I waited until I was in my sixties to go.
You know, I'd really, really like to work on cars.
Oh, yeah, we got to get the mark.
Yeah.
Printosaurus here.
It's, it's just not going to happen.
No, we've got to get him into one of the summer programs.
Yeah.
Another need in this industry are good trimmers or upholstery people.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You hear, you hear shops cry about, you know, can't, can't get people to do upholstery or, or the really good ones.
They're months of net years out booked in projects.
Yeah.
I enjoy doing upholstery work.
Oh, me too.
Me too.
Every shop that we talk to everybody, we have from vintage underground to spark burn and hot rod express and everybody we talk to says they're hurting for employees, you know, what they're doing.
And it doesn't matter if it's, you know, body work or being able to do paint or upholstery, trimmers, it doesn't matter who it is.
Everybody is, all the shops are competing for those employees.
So the opportunities are out there.
Yes.
They absolutely are.
What do you think are some of the misconceptions people have about careers in the collector car industry that they're not there or that they wouldn't pay?
I think for a younger person, and I was a little bit of a victim of this myself is you think that, okay, so I went to school, I now have this four year degree in automotive restoration from this respected institution.
That means I must know everything.
Oh God.
I mean, that was a little simplistic way of saying it, but you know, a misconception is, yes, you've been trained, you've done all the right steps and the fact you've graduated it.
It shows a small thing that you can show up on time and, you know, do your assignments and all of that.
But you don't have experience, right?
You don't have the 15, 20, 30 years of experience that those who are admired and respected.
So the misconception is like you're never done learning.
You know, I have several employees who are in their early to mid twenties and all very talented.
I mean, I'm so blessed and fortunate to have the workforce that I have the opportunity to help lead.
And, you know, one of our mechanics recently, who's very, very talented, but I witnessed, it was in one of his own cars, but I witnessed him experience a breakdown.
And it was because he didn't fully understand exactly how that part was lubricated and or it should be lubricated.
But guess what, you know, none of us are perfect when it comes to learning the lesson the hard way.
And I guarantee you he will remember that for the rest of his life.
Yeah, I'll never do it again.
Never do it again.
And that's, I mean, some of your best, you know, lessons, you know, come from when you have to learn it the hard way.
And that's what over time, you have to see your experience to be able to think about spot.
Like you just don't have that as a fresh college graduate.
So that's kind of a misconception.
It's like, okay, I'm going to go to college and this is going to be my ticket to go anywhere.
No, you still have to start.
I mean, that's your ticket to say that you are at the level of an apprentice with some training.
But now it's time to get the experience and learn from your experience.
You never get any wisdom from the easy stuff.
That's right.
Wisdom comes from the stuff that is a real bear to get through.
We'll put it that way.
No pain, no gain.
That's right.
That's right.
Exactly.
We touched on your time at Haggerty and having a good hand in growing that company from what it was to what it is now.
What do you think you learned from Haggerty or your time there about the collector car hobby and the people in it?
That is much bigger and more diverse than what most people would think.
You go back 15, 20 years and there was kind of this caricature of the car hobby and that was the 57 Chevy Diner listening to Chantilly Lace.
Just this kind of like the crying boy leaning against the bumper.
It's like a little scary.
There was just this caricature of what you learn is people who enjoy cars for other than just basic form of transportation.
It doesn't matter what the car is.
It doesn't matter the person, their age, their gender, their walk of life, whatever.
That's what is really neat about this whole community.
You hear me say community versus hobby.
A lot of people say this is their hobby.
I think it's more than just a hobby.
It goes way, way beyond that.
It's an industry.
For some people, they may identify it as their hobby, but to me, it is a community and it's an industry.
Just the size and the depth and the sophistication of the industry.
I've lived this myself and I'm of this age group.
The interest, why people get into this, those have changed and evolved over time.
I'm less motivated by taking one of my own cars to a car show on a Saturday and sitting all day with it.
The plaque, the trophy, it really doesn't motivate me.
I want to do what I did last weekend.
It was a two-day driving tour that somebody else planned.
It was with a whole bunch of fun people.
It was a reason to come together and drive your cars, but also be with other people.
That's what's been interesting to observe and learn is, Hagerty, they're such a data powerhouse.
To be at the front row to dissect the various data points of what really makes up this industry,
it's much, much bigger than most people think it is.
There's an awful lot of people that own an interesting old car that may not even be old,
but it's just the fun car they don't need to have.
There's a lot of people that own a car like that for their own personal reasons,
but they don't participate in what people would call the hobby.
It's just neat and fun for them.
That's also a very American thing.
Americans have a love affair with the automobile more than most countries do.
Well, we're nuts.
For the uninitiated, and we're getting down to what you're up to now.
For the uninitiated, what and where is the NB Center for American Automotive Heritage?
That's a great question.
That's a mouthful to say, isn't it?
Probably makes for a great business card.
That's exactly right.
If you haven't heard of it, it is just amazing automotive, park-like 27 acres in Allentown, Pennsylvania,
which is Eastern Pennsylvania.
27 acres.
There's two sides to it.
I'll explain what it is in Allentown, and then I'll step back and explain how it came to be.
There's also two separate businesses in addition to the restoration side.
There is a service and repair center.
Just think of your independent mechanic shop with specific vintage cars.
Then we also have a machine shop that does engine rebuilding.
There's also a collection of 200 cars.
These are all American cars primarily from the 1920s to the 1950s.
That is housed and stored on site, and the restoration team is focused on that collection.
To take a step back, the name NB stands for Nicola Bvlgari.
Mr. Bvlgari is his third generation of the Italian jewelry company that bears that name, Bvlgari.
He's based in Rome, Italy, but had a lifelong love affair with the American automobile.
Again, this could be a whole separate episode talking about what led up to this.
It was a 50-year effort that evolved into this massive complex that is all about preserving a specific slice of American automotive history.
Of these 200 cars in the US, by the way, there's about 120 in Italy as well, all American cars, mostly from the 20s through the 50s.
These are not just any American car.
These are specifically cars that were aimed at the middle market.
Nash, Studebaker, Hudson, Buick, Ozoneville, Paniac, you're not going to see a Duesenberg.
You're not going to see some one-off, custom-bodied, 12-cylinder Packard that you might expect to see in a larger collection of American cars.
Because the philosophy is the higher-end cars that tend to be more sought after or dominate the headlines, whether it's at a car show or auction or what have you,
those have already been saved.
Because if you think about it, if you have a car that's worth high-six figures, low-seven figures or on up, you can justify in paper the investment it takes to restore that car.
Because the value is there when it's done.
Here's one example. This car always just kind of makes me smile when I look at it. 37 Nash Lafayette Coupe.
Are you typing that one in yet, Mark?
I don't know. I don't know if that's a maybe.
It's a fully restored, I challenge you to find a better example of that particular model.
I don't know. It's maybe a $40,000 car on its best, best, best day.
That's just because of its condition. It's $200,000 to restore that car.
Most people aren't spending $200,000 to restore a car that's worth a fraction of that when it's done.
But Mr. Bogarty's philosophy is these are the cars that were built in mass quantities that fueled the middle class, the average buyer,
that dominated not only the American automotive industry, but had a tremendous influence in both design and technological innovation for the rest of the world from an automotive standpoint.
So these are the ones that do deserve to be saved, even though most people can't wrap their head around doing that.
So that is the philosophy that has built this collection.
So for the Envy Center, there's two sides of it.
There's the collection, which is a constant effort of restoration and preservation, and it's shared with other people.
But then there's also the business side helping the industry.
So again, the service center for people to have their cars serviced or repaired.
So not body work, not a poster work, just mechanical repair and service, and then engine building.
And the reason that we invested in both of those businesses is because that's a growing shortage in this industry, both on the machine shop side,
as well as an independent repair shop, fewer and fewer of them have the appetite to work on an older car.
And I'm going to expand on that a little bit because the same goes for machine shops.
There's fewer machine shops out there in general, and other ones who are there still operate.
They don't always have the appetite to work on an earlier engine.
I mean, they'll do small black Chevy's and modern day, whatever, all they want.
In both cases, it's not that a mechanic shop is incapable of working on an older vehicle.
I mean, yeah, there's points versus modern computer electronics.
I mean, yeah, there is that.
But the fundamentals, it's not that a shop couldn't work on an older car, just like a machine shop couldn't rebuild an early engine.
Boring a cylinder is boring a cylinder.
The parts supply chain is very different when it comes.
It goes against the typical business model.
So think about it when you take your car in for service, your modern daily driver, whatever.
You've got the appointment of the books.
You've stated what your concern is.
You drop it off early in the morning.
Before lunch, they've diagnosed it.
They've sent you a quote, and the quote is based on the known price for the parts and the book time that they call us for.
And you need to get a very accurate quote.
You approve it.
The parts get delivered that afternoon.
They don't have them already.
And you pick it up at the end of the day on your way home from work.
We had a 41 Buick as a customer car that did quite a bit of work to it.
Completely rebuilt the transmission, went through the brakes, did a bunch of other stuff to it.
But it sat for three weeks.
When everything else was done, went away three weeks for parking brake cables to arrive.
You say, okay, fine, and dandy, whatever, you just work on something else.
The fact that that car is sitting for three weeks, the cars that we work on,
we can't just ship them out in the back parking lot and let them sit in the parking lot until the parts come.
Because if that happened, in most cases at the dealership service center or you name it, mechanic repair shop,
if they had to wait a long time for parts, that car is going out back because they can bring another vehicle in,
into that lift, into that work bay, and continue to make money.
We can't do that.
Our customers are going to tolerate their cars going outside.
Yeah, you can put up indoor storage and stuff, but that'll cost money.
Hey, check out our new display.
That's why a lot of shops don't want to work on an older car.
Get us out that they can't.
It totally goes against the business model of what they're used to.
So we leaned into that.
And I'm living that every day.
It's a storage challenge.
Okay, when can we get this car out?
More than want to get in.
This is a big collection.
It includes more than 300 vehicles.
Yeah, you're looking at it right now?
Well, how did, yeah, I'm a little distracted.
Sorry.
How did such a remarkable collection come together?
And don't forget, you haven't touched on the Italian location.
Yeah, the founder of this place, he's an Italian that loves American cars
and American culture, probably more than the three of us combined.
And he'll lecture us that we don't appreciate our own culture as much as we should.
There's possibly a chance that that's true.
Well, the point is the love for these types of cars and what they represent.
Wow.
Look at that campus.
Unquestionable.
Yeah.
Yeah, two miles of private driving roads on site.
And the idea is, you know, think of 50, 75, 100 years from now.
You know, we can't necessarily predict what mobility will be 100 years from now
outside of the, you know, as far as modern daily driving traffic.
But there will always be a place where these types of cars can be seen driven,
heard because one of the things that we're most proud of is you will not see
the word museum anywhere on our website.
Nothing against museums.
There's a lot of amazing automotive museums around the world.
And they serve a very, very important purpose.
From our standpoint with what we want to do, we don't have any static displays.
All 200 of those cars, unless they're being actively worked on,
they are maintained and ready to drive condition.
So are they, are they driven around that campus on the private roads?
Yep.
And how often do you say, no, I'll take it for you.
That's okay.
You know, not as much as I should actually.
Any chance I can get, I've got one out or if somebody has a car out for another
reason, I hop in it and take it for a drive and they got to be exercised.
Mark, are you scrolling through these cars on here?
I don't know if you've seen it.
There's an image of the cars parked around the inner circle of the property.
Yeah.
We did that photo shoot last summer and that's 165 cars to put that together.
Wow.
It took us six hours to park them all and another four hours to put them all away.
And the photographer said three hours in between to do all their footage and get the drone
fired.
Out of 165 cars that we parked, only three had to be towed.
Oh, that's fabulous.
All the others, they started and moved on their own.
So what?
All the cars, they're registered, insured.
They're hooked up to a battery maintain charger.
The idea is you can hop in any one of them, drive it at any point.
And when you do drive it, if there's an issue, they go to the mechanic shop.
So one of our buildings with our mechanics in it, it goes there and they address whatever
issue it has before it goes back into the collection building.
All right.
Touch on some of the more notable vehicles you have on hand and do you have a favorite?
That's always impossible.
I keep telling myself I need to have a ready answer that's towards my favorite.
Okay.
Just touch on the more notable stuff and then while you're thinking about it.
Well, but what is, but what's notable about this collection?
Usually when you ask someone that's involved with a large collection, what's the most notable?
It's going to come across the most rare, maybe the most valuable or whatever.
Sure.
You know, that's not necessarily this one, but you know, a few that stick out to me is
now there's a number of cars that our team have restored and you're looking a lot of
those images and that and the top header of the website.
And they are, I mean, the level of detail that these cars are restored to is I will
put them up against, you know, as far as the restoration quality.
I'll put our team up against any other restore out there.
Okay.
What's remarkable about this collection is the number of cars in there that many people
might not find remarkable.
If that makes sense.
Okay.
You know, so there's Mr. Bullinger and I have talked about this before.
There's a 1935 Dodge Coupe, nothing special about it, but it, if you ever come out and
visit either of you guys, we'll get that car out and drive it.
You're not going to find a better seating position in a car of that era than in that
35 Dodge.
Really?
A coupe.
Like that's just a fun little thing that like when you're around these cars, you wouldn't
necessarily think about that, but then all of a sudden you'd get a chance to drive because
again, it's one thing to look at a car when you actually get to drive it.
All of a sudden you get this like, oh my gosh, I would have never thought that this is one
of the most enjoyable cars to drive that I want to drive it across country right now.
While you're talking, I'm scrolling through here picking out my favorites.
So there's a 19.
Well, and not all the cars are on the website.
It's a, that's an ongoing effort.
Which a car we showed at Pebble last year, a 1950 Chrysler town and country that has
5,000 miles from new.
No kidding.
Paint, original wood.
I know that was on the website.
You can scroll down to that.
Yeah, I've got it pulled up right now.
That thing's cool looking.
It's unbelievable that that's original paint, original wood, original upholstery.
Wow.
It was, so it was at a Chrysler dealership in Florida for more than 50 years.
For whatever reason, the owners never sold it and it just was always a display piece
in the showroom for more than five decades.
It has never been sold.
We still have the original unassigned title to that car.
That's fantastic.
Yeah.
So that, that's a fun notable.
I mean, again, you wouldn't necessarily think of something like that.
It's more the story of the car.
We recently acquired a 46 Pontiac Streamliner 8 Woody station wagon, 14,000 miles from new.
That's not on the website yet.
It was originally ordered for a convent up in New York.
A convent.
Yes.
It was used to drive the nuns to town.
It didn't get a lot of miles and it's only been through two ownership, two family ownership
cents.
And it's just this remarkably preserved, completely untouched car.
Those are the fun ones to me.
I know this saying gets thrown around a lot, but it's absolutely true.
You're going to restore anything.
Sure.
It's only once.
Yeah.
So those are the fun ones that stick out.
There's several 1934 Buick's of all, you know, from the, the smaller one all
the way up to the large 90 series.
And I mean, I think there's, I don't know if the top of my head, but.
I'm scrolling back to get back to our eight of the 90 series viewers.
So the big ones, but you know, something that most people don't realize is how amazing
the 1934 Buick drives compared to just about anything else on the road at that time.
And that was the first year that, that Buick introduced the independent front suspension,
called the action suspension.
And we've done this stick before because, you know, I say there's, I say that all the
cars in the culture were into the middle market.
There's a couple of exceptions for that.
We have a V16 Marmin, a DB three to two studs.
Yeah.
But we've done this stick to a few times so that, I mean, that V16 Marmin is a beautiful,
beautiful car.
And of course, who doesn't love a 16 cylinder engine.
We've done this stick to a few times where we've had half a dozen cars out driving them.
You kind of lead up to, and the second to the last car that they drive is that V16 Marmin
and then they hop at a 34 Buick and Miles Collier experiences.
And he wrote it in one of his books.
He goes, I would have never guessed that the best driving car from that day was a Buick.
So that's kind of the fun thing.
This fun stuff to share with the automotive world.
So, so yeah, so it's a, a wonderful place.
We do, it's not open to the public.
It's, it's not like a ticket taking museum, but we regularly give tours and no charge
to car groups.
So car clubs and also student groups.
Okay.
So when people reach out and say, Hey, can I come see this place?
It's like, organize a tour of your car club.
We'll be happy to have you.
Have you been to Italy for the Italian location?
Yeah.
Okay.
Been there a couple of times.
I'm going there again in a couple of weeks.
Okay.
Tell us about that.
I can tell you the first time I drove on the out of strata outside of Rome was in a 1938
Buick.
Right alongside rush hour traffic.
What's most notable about the collection in Italy, particularly Rome is this is a 50
year effort, but he has amassed 11 of the original Vatican cars of the Vatican.
Oh, wow.
So these are not necessarily potent bills, although one of them was for one of the popes,
but these were just, you know, the official cars of the Vatican.
And so those, and you can see those on the website, particularly if you click on the
Italy flag.
But, you know, these are Cadillacs, Buicks, couple of Packards, you know, all limousines,
formal limousines that, yeah.
He first, we have some black and white photography that he took himself in the Vatican garage
when he was 23 years old.
He's 80, 85 now.
You know, when the first time he saw those cars and those are now all part of this collection.
That's cool.
I like that.
I'm stuck looking at cars on there.
Why does the, why is the center focused so heavily on American cars from the 20s through
the 50s?
You know, in our opinion, that was an interesting time of growth and change.
If you look at the, if you look at the large picture of all of automotive history, you
know, if you think of, you know, starting in the 20s, obviously had the depression in
the 30s and then he had the war.
But if you think of what happened in that short amount of time, you know, so we're talking,
you know, a 30 year time span, you know, think about, you know, what's happened in the last
30 years in the automotive industry.
Yes, there's certainly been a lot of innovation on the, on from the electronics and the technology
side, but, you know, and that's a truck to truck.
The SUV is an SUV.
A car is a car, you know, you can, you can drive a 30 year old car if it's in good condition
along with modern day traffic.
And that timeframe, there was a radical difference from a car from the 1920s versus through the
1950s.
And the, this is also a time when if you were the average working class family, you may
have had one vehicle to towards the end of this timeframe, you had two vehicles, you
know, it became a multi car household and the, the, the design influence and the technological
innovation that happened during that timeframe and the larger impact that had on culture and
society as a whole is a very important time of modern history.
Agreed.
It's also, there's an awful lot of cars from that era that did not get saved.
You know, an example of one of the cars that has been restored by our team is a 1940 Nash
Ambassador A convertible.
Now they were, I don't know off the top of my head how many of those were made when new,
but you know, they were made in, in, in measurable quantities.
That is the only one that we know that currently exists.
So someone has a 40 Nash Ambassador A convertible sitting in their garage that we don't know
about.
I want to hear about it, but as far as we know, as far as anyone in the club knows, that's
the only one that exists.
It was in pretty poor shape.
The body was incredibly rusty.
A lot of people would have said it didn't make sense to restore it.
Our philosophy at the time was that this is the only one left.
It absolutely needs to be saved and restored.
The current floor restoration project is a pair of 1934 Chrysler air flow coupes.
That's on the website.
You got into Mopar stuff.
Mark's going to need a moment.
Keep talking.
Just slower.
So 30 now, specifically 34 Chrysler air flow coupes.
As far as we know, and as far as the club can validate, there's 15 of those left in
existence.
And these are two of those 15.
Oh, wow.
These cars are so, are you looking at them Brett?
I am.
I am.
See how rusty they are.
Yeah.
Man, that's, it's just kind of sad, but I'm glad you're bringing it back.
We are restoring both of those.
Wow.
We're actually going to sell one of them when we're done.
We don't, we don't usually sell cars, but the philosophy is we don't need two of the
exact same car.
And if we're saving it, then, you know, one needs to go elsewhere.
So how many of these do you think are still extant?
These are two of 15 known to live.
Two of 15.
Yeah.
Two of 15.
Okay.
And, you know, it's funny, I just ran across, it wasn't too long ago and I saved it for
a while.
There's a 1936 Chrysler air flow in Lawrence, Kansas, 62,000 miles for 16K.
But the, there's even a 35 in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, I just found, but 34.
Yeah.
No.
Do not a baby.
I keep going back to the Nash rag top.
Man, is that thing good looking?
Of course, the other car that you have that not only does Mark have a soft spot for, I
think this thing sexy is the 55 Chrysler C 300.
Oh, that's beautiful.
That thing is cool looking.
I like that.
That one has a little bit of a secret.
Okay.
Okay.
So out of more than 300 cars between Pennsylvania and Italy, all of them are in their, you
know, maybe restored to original or they're maintained in a preserved state.
There's originality.
There's three exceptions.
That's one of them.
Yeah.
So that car was, you know, if you look at it and look stock inside and out very intentionally
it looks stock.
There's only two things that would give it away if you really know what you're looking
at.
That went down to Hendrick's race shop.
They pulled the body off the chassis, did a 3D scan of the underside of the body and
used that to build a custom race chassis and the drive train is out of a 2014 Hellcat.
I sent that to you.
Did you look through?
That just made me believe in Jesus.
Did you get to the pictures under the hood?
I'll tell you what.
Well, maybe if you look at even how it's disguised under the hood, you know, just quickly passing
by it doesn't scream modern engine.
Yeah.
I didn't even catch that.
Yeah.
That air cleaners.
That bat wing.
That old stool.
With the oil wells and that hemi looking.
Wow.
But if you look at the fuel runners.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll tell you what.
It's pretty wild to drive something that handles like that.
I mean, because again, this was a custom built modern race chassis with all the latest greatest
suspension.
And of course, massive amounts of horsepower.
It's radical to drive something that handles like that with that kind of power in a bench
seat with no bolsters.
Oh God.
I bet.
You want to put that seatbelt on the interior stock.
So the only thing that gives that away visually walking up to it is it has original style
where wheels are custom and larger.
Yeah.
Large diameter, a little bit smaller profile tire that that gives it away.
If you know what you're looking at.
The other thing I'll give it away looking at the interiors and steer is the steering wheel
looks stock.
But again, it's custom and it's significantly smaller diameter than, you know, that's still
what I had the very large steering wheel.
Even though they they had power assisted steering, it was still the idea that steering wheels
need to be giant.
So as an executive director at the Enby Center, what's a typical day like for you?
No, two are the same.
I can tell you that.
Okay.
You know, it's actually so, you know, I referenced I was at Harriety for all those years and I
started, there was 200 employees and I saw it to a peak in 1900.
Now there's I'm going to place in a leadership position with 23.
Wow.
So I came from a situation where I'm not exaggerating when I say the HR department was larger than
the total amount of employees that I'm looking at.
I, you know, myself and and one other of my peers were the de facto HR people.
And so I find myself doing a lot more people, not in a bad way, but just more people type
stuff management that I ever have and, and, and, you know, more HR type stuff because
it's very, very important.
It doesn't matter where you work, what type of business you're running.
If you don't have a good culture, it's, you know, there's a, there's a saying out there
in one of the business books, culture eats strategy for lunch.
You can have the best strategy in the world.
You have a toxic culture.
You're, you're not going to get ahead.
And so I'm having a blast and I feel like, you know, my career up to this point has
been training for what I'm doing right now because I've had to draw from so many different
experiences.
And, you know, so what does a typical day look like?
I mean, I could be, you know, I could, I could be alongside the guys in the shop as
we're, you know, trying to figure something out in the project, you know, some, you know,
what you call an HR type task to helping load a trailer to, you know, I still have my CDL
from when I was 18, you know, with the family farm and, you know, sometimes just driving
a truck and trailer to an event and being at the event, you know, you just never know
what you're going to do.
So what are your goals for the center over the next five to 10 years?
We have this tremendous opportunity to grow out this ecosystem of specialty businesses.
You know, so it started with this, you know, the service center and the machine shop, you
know, both are growing needs in this industry.
We have the capabilities and we will be doing gauge restoration once I can hire the right
person.
You know, I can't tell you exactly what these specialty businesses will be, but to me it's
an exciting opportunity to, you know, take advantage of some areas that are really underserved
in this industry and allows us to, you know, I can hire more, you know, young graduates
from whether it's McPherson College or Pennsylvania College of Technology that also has a restoration
program or any other and continue to like grow this place, this really fun little suite
of automotive businesses run by a bunch of car people.
If you could have one lesson from your career and experiences that you would like to give
to our listeners, what would it be?
So if I'm speaking to a young person just entering their career, whether they're just
getting out of high school or college or some other program, I would say be curious, right?
Yeah.
Ask questions.
Don't be afraid to roll up your sleeves and try to learn about something, you know, just
be curious.
Adults, people who are in mentor type positions, like we like that when we see a young person
is curious about, you know, learning more.
So that's one thing I would say that I have learned.
That's an important aspect and what is a common trait of people that I've admired.
The next thing, and I can tie this back to some of the good fortunes that I've had in
my career is be involved.
And this really goes back to a young person.
So like I think back to, you know, Brett, when we were students, my first job was a direct
result that I was actively involved in the business club at McPherson College.
And personally, I worked with through one of those, you know, one of those activities
of the business club is who offered me my first job.
That first job led to the next job.
You know, all the years of involvement, you know, when I'm talking about, you know, the
youth advocacy programs that we did at Hagerty, you know, I met a lot of people in this industry
from around the country.
And Keith Bliginger, who's the current COO at the NB Center, and he's been there for 31 years.
And, you know, I got to know him 10, 12 years ago, and it was a conversation over a few years of,
you know, hey, we need to think about, or, you know, he's expressing that they were starting to think
about what's the succession plan for when he retires?
Well, he's 63, I'm 44.
You know, this job didn't happen as a result of me sending in my resume with a cover letter.
It was, you know, various points of my career being involved in things that I maybe wouldn't
necessarily have had to do to do just the core functions of my job.
That's what's led to the next.
So, you know, what I've learned is, you know, be curious, get involved, and then just be kind.
Like be a kind human being.
You know, you have to be, you know, when you're a manager, you have to have tough conversations
and sometimes make tough decisions, but you can still do it in a kind way.
And, you know, it's, we've all been around people who were not kind.
Oh, yeah.
And you remember how you felt as a result of that person.
You may not remember what they said or what they did or what have you, but you're always,
you never forget how you felt.
And, you know, and that's actually, you know, the fact that I have witnessed that type of behavior in the past,
I think it's kind of helped make, I hope it has influenced me to be a better manager and a better leader.
You know, to not repeat some of the mistakes that I witnessed others do.
Sure.
It's as valuable as the good things I've witnessed other people do.
So, I mean, it's, I mean, that's kind of a very high level view of it.
Like, you know, what I've learned in my advice to young people, be curious, be involved, and then always be kind.
I think those are three very valid points.
Yep.
All right.
For a less serious question, I always love this.
And I've asked you this before, but it's been several years since I've asked you this.
So what's the dumbest thing you've ever done in a car?
But I modified it for you.
What's the dumbest thing you've done in a car since you graduated from McPherson?
So stuffing my mom's van in the dish and putting it down on the side when I was 16,
because I was driving back to get my pager.
That doesn't count.
No, I figured I'd modify it.
I'm going to give you a broader window.
What's the dumbest thing you've done in a car in the last 22 years?
That shouldn't narrow it down too much.
There you go.
There you go.
I do have an experience that sticks out.
So I, so for six years, I competed in the Great Race, which is the cross country time
speed distance endurance rally.
Five of those six years was in a 1917 peerless open cockpit speedster.
And love that car.
Love that car.
And I mean, it's more than a hundred years old now.
So remember, you know, me loving engines and that gravitated towards liking earlier and
earlier cars.
This car is a perfect example of that.
This particular year, the route was following the Mississippi.
So it started in Minneapolis and followed the Mississippi River all the way down to,
I believe, is Baton Rouge, Louisiana is where it finished.
And that was one of those years where it just didn't stop raining.
And now this is a cockpit car speedster with no windshield.
I mean, it has a tiny little windscreen.
And there was one day and we were on the course.
We were on the clock.
Maybe we were doing this phenomenon of calories.
Anyways, we were on the clock.
I have never experienced more rain than I did in that moment.
And now I'm in.
I have no top, no windshield.
And it was raining so hard.
The speed we were going was 50 miles an hour.
But of course, I was like, we're on the clock, you know, and we were doing pretty good.
Like we were in the we were competitive up to that point.
Of course, your score is cumulative over nine days.
And it was raining so hard that all I could do is I was staring at the right front wheel.
You know, so again, big wheel to open cockpit car.
I can see, you know, the right front wheel.
I was staring at that and I was keeping that on the white line on the side of the road.
And that was the only way I was able to see it 50 miles an hour.
Okay.
And I remember thinking I'm like, this would end very badly.
But it would end very badly.
And all of a sudden there's a sharp curve.
But as far as I knew, it was a mostly straight road.
And we probably did that for 20 minutes and just the most amount of rain I've ever experienced.
And I happened to be in a car without a windshield around top at that point.
So that was probably the, I mean, probably the dumbest thing.
Like you're looking back and it's like, yeah, you showed up hold over.
You know, the other one, I'll tell a quick version of the story.
This was right after, and actually maybe it was still technically during my first and but three other of my, my classmates.
Brian, you know, one of them.
Oh, yeah.
Well, there's, I think we're, they graduated before you came, Brett, but we went out to the soft flats.
The Bonneville soft flats for speed week.
Now we're for college kids that didn't have a whole lot of money.
So, you know, we, we, you know, pulled together and also none of us for good reason wanted to take our own car because you had to drive out of the soul.
But we were all under the age of 25.
So we couldn't rent a car from, you know, your, your typical rental company.
So we, we ended up renting a, what was meant to be a local loaner from Conklin cars in Salina, Kansas.
Oh no.
It was like a century, four or, you know, we drove it and had a moment of miles as far as the rental.
So we drove it from Kansas out to the bottom of the salt flats.
On to the salt, had the chance to run it.
I don't remember how fast we got it to go, but it was as fast as that century would go with four grown guys in it.
And you cannot believe how much salt was on that car.
We did our best to wash it off.
But I do feel a little bad that, you know, there was someone who at some point who thought they purchased a kind of good deal on a little mile of Buick Century and wondered why it massively started rusting out.
The lesson there is don't ever buy a former rental vehicle.
That's the lesson right there.
It's called hurts for a reason.
Yeah, that's right.
That's 100% right.
Alrighty.
I got one for you.
I will share off air just for, for the, for everybody's benefit.
But yeah, I mean, those are the PG responses on that.
Well, that's, that's perfect.
Yeah.
I won't bring up a possible yellow Pantera that graced the shop at McPherson that I think, I think every one of us drove with no breaks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The handbrake on that thing was worn the hell out.
We've been speaking with John Klinger of the NB Center for American Automotive Heritage.
John, please tell us where we can find you online and on social media.
There you go.
So learn more about the NB Center.
It's real simple.
The NB Center.com.
And that's all our social handles as well.
Okay.
How about you, pal?
Facebook, Facebook, Axlington.
Yeah, Facebook, Instagram.
That's the, that's about as far as I go.
Under, under John Klinger.
Believe it or not, actually the 365 days of a blog still exists out there.
You want to, if anyone wants to go down a blast of memory lane and start with blog post number one.
There you go.
Hey, John, thanks for being with us.
I really appreciate it.
Well, this was fun.
See, this is the problem with me not having John on more often is I don't get to talk to him enough.
And then we wind up having a nine day long stinking interview.
I hope our listeners had a chance to eat dinner beforehand.
You know, I hear more and more from people.
They say that they're listening to this on Saturday morning in the garage.
Nice.
Okay, that makes sense.
So if you've got this on, if you got a speaker in your garage or something like that.
It's lunchtime.
Yeah.
First of all, go find your dog.
He ran off.
Secondly, yeah, it's probably time for BLT or PB and J or something.
Something.
But this is, I'm not saying that we are an equal replacement for click and clack.
But it used to be when I was puttering around in the garage on Saturday morning, that's who I had on.
Yeah.
And so people telling me that they're listening to us in the garage on a Saturday morning.
Oh man, what a huge compliment that is.
Yeah, that's high praise.
I'm so thrilled that you are.
And thank you for that.
And you know, after you've heard all the click and clack shows like four times, it's probably fun to hear something new.
I'm thrilled to death that people are listening to our show while they're working on their stuff.
While they're straightening up their garage.
While they're, you know, if you're like me and you're super hyper OCD, you're wiping the oil off all your wrenches.
It just, I'm thrilled that you're listening to us while you're doing stuff.
A lot of other people say that they use us on long road trips.
Nice.
So I'm glad that, you know, you're getting these interviews while you're driving places.
I love that people are listening to us while they're doing stuff with their cars.
Yeah.
That's kind of cool.
That's really fantastic.
Who knew?
So thank you for that.
Thank you so much for spending time with Driven Radio.
We love what we do.
If you can't tell.
You can't tell.
Yeah.
And we wouldn't be able to do it without the support of our listeners.
So thank you for that.
Yeah.
You can find us online at DrivenRadioShow.com.
Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at Driven Radio Show and on LinkedIn as Driven Radio Show podcast.
If you have a story you would like to tell or someone you would like us to interview, please contact me at Brett.
That's B-R-E-T-T at DrivenRadioShow.com.
I am Brett Hatfield for Mark L. Groves.
Yo.
Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time here on Driven Radio.
Driven Radio.
About this episode
John Klinger’s second part digs into how the NB Center and related programs keep classic cars—and the people who restore them—moving. McPherson College’s restoration degree is framed as a true four-year bachelor’s path with business and history tracks, while the NB Center expands facilities and adds mechanical engineering to better solve classic-car problems. The conversation also tackles workforce shortages, parts supply challenges, and why experience never stops. Along the way, the show tours the NB Center’s drive-ready collection and shares vivid rain-and-rally stories.
Brett and Mark welcome John Klinger of The NB Center for American Automotive Heritage to discuss what differentiates the McPherson College Auto Restoration Program from trade schools, the lack of skilled labor in the restoration world, the NB Center for American Automotive Heritage, the stunning cars in their collection, driving American classics in Italy, and driving an open Peerless racer in torrential rain. All this and much more on Driven Radio Show!
