A Miata is a small two-seat car made for driving enjoyment. It’s known for feeling light and easy to steer, which makes it fun even if it isn’t expensive. People often talk about it because it can be a practical way to get a sports-car experience.
The BMW 3 Series is a smaller luxury car, usually a sedan. People like it because it drives well and feels more “premium” than many regular cars. It’s also common on the used market, so some older ones can sell for modest money.
Track insurance is special coverage for when you drive your car on a race track. It’s meant to protect you financially if something happens during a track day.
NASA DE is a type of track day run by NASA where drivers go to learn and practice. It’s not a race—more like organized driving instruction and practice.
“Hooked it to the left” means the car suddenly turned the wrong way. It usually happens when the tires lose traction, and the car swings toward the wall.
VIR is a famous race track in Virginia. The host is saying the crash happened coming out of turn three at that track.
Concept
DE
“DE” here means a track day—an organized event where people drive their cars on a race track to practice. It’s not the same as a competitive race with a championship. They’re talking about who shows up and how people treat the event.
“Raced lemons” means racing cheap, beat-up cars on purpose. The idea is that the cars aren’t expensive or perfect—so you focus on getting through the event and having fun, not just having a supercar. The host is saying they mostly did that kind of racing.
The BMW M2 Competition is a sporty BMW made by BMW’s performance division. The hosts are using it as an example of how some people jump straight to expensive, track-ready cars.
Concept
scale of economy
They’re basically saying that bigger groups can handle expensive problems more easily. If you have more money and support, it’s easier to replace a car after an accident.
HPD here sounds like an acronym for a racing-related group or program. The speaker is checking whether it actually means “racing” or if it’s not about racing at all.
NASA is a racing organization that runs track events. They also use a skill/class system so drivers are grouped by experience, and higher levels generally mean you’re allowed to push harder.
“Below the limit” means you’re driving gently enough that the car stays in control and doesn’t start losing traction. It’s where you can learn what the car does without getting into spins or big slides.
NASA is a motorsports organization that groups drivers by skill level. The “one through four” levels generally mean you’re going from beginner toward more advanced track driving.
A full cage is a metal safety frame inside the car. It helps protect you in a crash and can make the car feel more solid on track.
Concept
D one and two or novice and intermediate
They’re talking about driver groups for track days—novice and intermediate are earlier experience levels. The idea is you start slower and learn the basics before moving up.
Concept
advanced or three and four
“Advanced” and “three and four” are higher skill groups on track days. Drivers are expected to handle the car at higher speeds and with less margin for error.
They’re basically saying it’s better to learn racing in a car that isn’t so powerful that you’re always going near the danger zone. That way you can practice and improve without needing to push to extreme speeds all the time.
A back straight is a long straightaway on a race track. It’s usually where cars go fastest, so it’s a place where mistakes can be especially dangerous.
A Corvette is a high-performance sports car from Chevrolet. It’s made to go fast and handle well, and many owners take them to tracks. In the podcast, it’s mentioned because the speaker wanted to use it for that kind of driving.
The Honda Accord is a regular, everyday car that’s meant to be comfortable and easy to live with. It’s often chosen as a family or commuter vehicle. In the podcast, it’s mentioned as one of the cars the speaker owned.
The Toyota Crown is a bigger Toyota sedan meant to be comfortable for daily driving. It’s not the most basic model in Toyota’s lineup, so it usually feels more upscale. In the podcast, it’s brought up as one of the cars being discussed.
The Scion FR-S is a small sports car made to be fun to drive. It’s designed for responsive handling and a more engaging feel than a typical commuter car. The podcast mentions it as a good choice in that sports-car category.
The Honda Civic is a smaller car designed for everyday driving. It’s known for being efficient and easy to find in the used market. The podcast mentions it as a likely Honda model to consider.
The Hyundai Elantra is a compact sedan meant for everyday driving. It’s generally known for being efficient and easy to live with. In the podcast, it’s mentioned as a car that can feel a little quicker or more engaging than a typical basic commuter.
The Hyundai Veloster is a small hatchback, meaning it has a rear door that lifts up for cargo. It’s designed to be practical for daily use but still feel fun to drive. The podcast mentions it as a car that could be enjoyable.
Front wheel drive means the front wheels do the work of moving the car. Many everyday compact cars use it because it’s efficient and easy to build.
Concept
"first car" for a son or daughter
They’re talking about choosing a first car for a kid. The goal is usually something safer and easier to manage—especially to reduce distractions and risk.
A manual transmission is a car where you shift gears yourself, usually using a clutch pedal. It can make the car feel more “hands-on” to drive.
Term
insurance purposes only
They mean the car is mainly being kept for insurance reasons. The bigger point is they want fewer passengers and fewer distractions for a new driver.
LIVE
Protein bars often feel like you're choosing between taste and nutrition.
If it tastes good, you flip it over only to discover it's made with a whole paragraph of ingredients you've never heard of,
or artificial sweeteners doing all the heavy lifting.
It's basically just dessert in disguise.
You shouldn't have to choose between tasty and nutritious.
And that's what makes Aloha stand out.
Aloha protein bars nail the delicious and nutritious.
They're USDA organic and made with ingredients that actually grow somewhere.
It's their whole taste that grows philosophy, literally.
Plant-based ingredients grown in the ground, thoughtfully sourced and built to actually keep you satisfied.
Their peanut butter cup bar has 14 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber, and only 5 grams of sugar,
which is wild considering how delicious it is.
Made with no artificial ingredients or fillers, just something that tastes good and works the way it's supposed to.
So if you're in the mood for something truly craveable and nutritious, try any of Aloha's protein bars.
Grab one at your local grocery store or head to aloha.com.
From the great halls of their house, there are assembled three who hope to one day be the world's greatest driving heroes.
Created from the cosmic legends of the universe comes our team captain, the vision Bill Fisher.
They're soon to be Wonder Woman, Vicky Fisher, our captain Marvel and head flight trainee, Jennifer Scribchuk,
and our Batman, the master of tools, gadgets, and all things mechanical.
Our mild-mannered soon-to-be billionaire, Alan Danvers.
Their mission to fight injustice, share what is right and wrong to get you out of your house
and come out racing with them and serve all mankind.
They are the Garage Heroes in Training Team.
Ben Dawson, Ben Dawson, I needs me some Ben Dawson.
Okay, settle down there, pal. What can I do for you?
But I need me some Ben Dawson.
I don't just need him.
So Ben, we were flip-flopping around when I was trying to lure you out of your hiatus.
I sent you a post that was put onto the forums and you said, yeah, we should talk about it.
In essence, I know it's like, Bill, you sent me so many, which one are you talking about?
It was about, how are people not worried about running 50,000, 100,000, 100,000 or more dollar cars on track at HBDEs?
The question was, how are they not worried about it?
Yeah, why aren't they worried about it? Why is, I mean, how can they do that?
I mean, I got to kind of play that a little bit.
I don't know why I'm so eagerly jumping on this topic because it's something I don't know much about.
Well, none of us ride these cars on track, so that's the first part.
First of all, I've never driven anything that had everything I drove on track.
I've been responsible for it. It's pretty much had negative street value. I mean, for real.
The most I've ever sold or raised car for, I think we sold my Miata for like 8,500 bucks.
I think we sold the Solar, E30 for like 9,500 bucks.
So anyway, not high value stuff. And this is after we put a bunch of stuff into it.
So I can't really relate.
And also, a lot of stuff has evolved since I started doing it.
I did my first DE in 2005 and the world of DE's was a lot different.
So I mean, I started being an instructor in 2010 and started to stop paying for anything right then.
I mean, as far as fees for DE said, but I don't know.
I'm so out of tune. I'm like 15 years out of tune as far as how much anything costs and what people do.
And all I've been driving on track since that whole time pretty much has been, you know, cars that I wouldn't
worry about losing myself or, you know, fully built race cars that also are not, you know,
you don't really street value most of those unless it's way higher up than what we were doing.
So I'm not sure, but I know I've prefaced my now comment with all that to say, you know,
I understand that there was a whole bigger world of track insurance that didn't used to be a thing
when I first started doing all this. So I understand a lot of folks used to just immediately rely on track insurance
just like with this generation of dogs that we have that we just immediately got them pet insurance
after our previous generation of dogs slayed our budgets, you know.
So I'm sure that's part of it.
I'm comfortable taking my McLaren on track because I insured it.
But I'll tell you this, like, I mean, back in my day, I remember there was a guy who was in my same
like intermediate group in NASA DE. So that's how far back we're talking.
But he had like a nice brand new Mini Cooper S.
And coming out of turn three, VIR, he hooked it to the left.
Like he got loose and hooked it to the left.
You straight into the left side wall.
You know, it's right there.
So this is coming out of turn three.
You just see the right end of that wall.
I mean, the car was pretty bitched up in this guy.
I mean, we heard the guy bet.
They got towed back to the pits and we walked by.
We just wanted to do a wild vibe and not stop.
Sometimes when that happens, you guys ever do that where you just sort of walk by to hear what people are saying,
but you don't want to really stop and talk to them.
My dad and I did a walk.
We just accrued by.
Because it was a DE.
We'd already done our session.
We had another hour to wait or whatever.
It wasn't like we had anything pressing.
So we just tried to walk by on this too.
And he's begging the tow truck guys who are unhooking him at his pit area.
He's begging them to take him out to the roadside.
He ain't claimed there was a road accident.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And those guys, those guys, I mean, I'm sure they hear it all the time.
They were like, no, so we're not allowed to do that.
But you know, that was that.
That was one of the things that kind of sticks out in my mind.
And in these days, I think they got it would have probably been somebody who would have taken advantage of track insurance.
So I think that's part of it.
I think also during my time living in Northern California, I didn't do a lot of DE.
I mostly raced lemons and chomped that whole time.
But a couple of DE's I did.
You know, this is in Northern California.
This is out by the base.
There's a lot of tech money.
But I mean, you'd have dudes rolling up with some Ferrari that I didn't even know they made in the novice group.
You know, in that case, I think sometimes the answer is, I got enough money.
I'm not worried about this.
No matter what happens, this car, I'll get another one.
You know, we saw, I was at a race sometime with the random vandals.
So I think race like M says stuff.
And they used to race, you know, WRL and even AERF or started the random vandals.
But they, these are the kind of guys who will buy a brand new M2 competition.
You know, it's already a fully built race car from BMW and I was at a race and, and they had a wreck.
It was pretty bad.
I happened to do another one of the wall.
But I just maybe heard it.
But like, I heard the guy said, Hey, there's like, oh, yeah, don't worry.
We've already, we've already been on the phone with BMW.
We have another car coming.
You know what I mean?
Yep.
So it's scale of economy too.
They would sell.
They were not worried about the car that they had just crashed, which would have devastated my entire economy.
And they're like, oh, no, we've already been on the phone with the BMW.
They got one coming for us.
So it's, it just depends.
I mean, there's a whole different scale of people out there.
There's dirt bags like me who came out started doing this with no money and still have no money.
And then there's people, you know, every doctor and lawyer who thinks it'd be fun.
It comes out and it makes, makes more on the scale of the world than I do.
I'm sure.
So you just, I think, I think economics, insurance, how dumb you are, you can play into it.
I mean, sometimes people just make stupid ass decisions.
Like, you know, I've definitely made stupid decision decisions at the track, but they usually don't involve a high dollar car.
But that's some people's flavor of dumb decision, I think.
Well, I went a different way.
So, so here's my question.
At HPD, how many of those letters are R?
No, I guess zero.
Zero.
So there's no racing in an HPD, right?
So especially like HPD one or two or whatever the early colors are, I know the different places have different.
Novice, intermediate.
Yeah.
Whatever.
Any of those.
And until you're like a three or four in NASA vernacular.
Yeah.
You shouldn't be pushing your car to the limit.
You should be learning.
So the risk is minimal.
So that's the only way.
I mean, besides the economy stuff, I mean, there are people who have $50,000 cars tip and change.
That's their winter beater.
That's, that's different.
But, you know, and there's people who have $2 million cars, a winter beater, but that's a different level.
I'm not, I'm talking about strictly the thing.
In an HPD, you're not wheel to wheel.
So that reduces the risk.
And two, you should be driving in control and learning to handle the car and how the car handles and what it's capable of doing below the limit.
So the risk shouldn't be high.
And with track insurance, you could do that.
But, you know, I could see somebody going out there in a $50,000 car or $100,000 car.
I don't recommend it, but I could see it.
It's also, you know, it's kind of to go along with what you're saying.
It's been my experience at seeing people who do that with nicer cars.
You know, as I'm putting through NASA one through four to instructing in the same me out of the entire time, but pretty much the same modifications.
Along the way, I put better suspension in there in a full cage.
But, you know, I would see people who would start out with relatively new cars at the track going through D one and two or novice and intermediate.
And by the time we got to like an advanced or three and four, they might have that same car.
But it's gone from having exhaust on to having, you know, more and more extreme, more and more extreme modifications.
Then you look at it like, oh, this is going to be this guy's track car forever.
He's been around long enough.
He's hooked on this stuff.
You know, John went from me like, oh crap, look at this guy.
You know, car doesn't make a whole lot of sense to, you know, be out there with a pretty cool modified version of it.
And this is for him.
He's staying and doing it.
Maybe this will eventually be a race car.
So that's one path that seemed to be fairly common with the people who end up being lifers and stick around.
Yeah.
And I've seen a bunch of them that came out there with their dream car, their daily, you know, super sports car, whatever it could be.
And four, five, 10 events later, they came out with a different car that wasn't quite there, you know.
Yeah.
And realized that, hey, I don't learn as much when I've got a car that's got capabilities so high.
I can't come close to reaching the limit without, you know, in some cases literally taking your life into your hands because you're plus 180 going down the back straight.
That's kind of, you know, that's not what you don't want to learn at 180 miles an hour.
It's a bad time to start picking up lessons, you know, and not to like kind of seize on every permutation of this.
But another thing I've seen happen, which is probably good for some of our listeners to hear who might be interested in heading the direction of racing is I've seen folks come out with very fancy cars as individuals.
And maybe they've seen like a champ car team or a limits team there at the track testing.
And I've seen people who have seen how much fun people can have with like completely low budget cars with no power.
And I've seen people, you know, come back with something like that.
Hey, I'm back with an E36. We hope to be racing this thing in a few months. You know what I mean? That's the story I've also seen.
Some of my ditches are super fancy brand new BMW.
They're, you know, they're going to start tracking maybe they don't ditch it, but they turn up with something that they can have even more fun with wheel wheel.
And, you know, getting to know like, here's a car I can totally throw around even the slightest care because if I, you know, if I ding up this E36, what the hell am I going to keep driving or get another one?
You know, like if it's bad enough, I'll get another one if it's okay. Now I've got a dinged up E36 is even more fun.
And there's a story, you know, I mean, that's, that's something that I've also seen happen, which is really cool.
I enjoy that too. It means here comes somebody else into the racing community for us.
There's no reason to learn with a car that's got super car capabilities. I don't, I can't think of any.
You know, unless, unless, unless that's just the, unless that's the end point, unless you've done all these means and that's the end.
I wanted to get my Corvette. I wanted to take it to the track. I wanted to go as fast as I could go and then I'm going to go drivers forever.
You know what I mean? To some people, that's the, that's, that's the mountaintop. That's the fulfillment.
So, you know, I don't want to sell them short either. That's some, for some people, that's the destination.
Yeah. I mean, it could be. I just, I would rather see them learn and like, you know, whatever their ego can handle less capable car.
Well, I mean, if you're already at the racetrack with your, with your car, you think you're some kind of badass ego is already a problem.
And that's all of us.
Yeah. So, I don't know.
I hear you though. I hear you. Ideals.
You know, how you have those artificial, if I were the, the, what would it be, the grand poobah of racing, you know, people would start, I'll give you like three choices, right?
These are the three cars you start with. Pick whichever one you want. I don't care.
And, and just learn on that. And then, because half the time when people do buy their, I suppose a dream car, I mean, Miss Vicki was piling around with a gentleman who had a, I believe it was a real Cobra.
Yeah.
And that's not the car you drive on track. It's, it's a really cool car to go eight tenths on the road, but it's not a good car for learning how to do HPD and, you know, it's kind of like making your job your hobby or your hobby into your job.
Sometimes it's not as much fun. So, you know,
I'm gonna say the three cars are Crown Vic, 2003 Ford Focus wagon and third car Honda Accord.
I was, I was being nicer than that, but yeah, there's not too many. It's, it's, it's, you know,
Those are the three cars you get.
No, I have a different selection, but that's,
Oh, do you? Oh, what are your three?
I do. I would think you'd probably want a Miata.
Trying to give him something nice. Okay.
Yeah, something, something decent. Now, if you're a person who either is prejudiced against a hairdresser Miata or can't fit in the Miata,
I think the current or last generation Toyota H6 BRZ FRS, the triplets, great car.
Sure. Sure. For being nice.
That would be nice. And if you're a, well, probably need to do four cars.
If you're one of those, I am a European car guy, then, you know, there's nothing wrong with a nice BMW,
three series, pick your, pick your three series, maybe an E36, E46 would be kind of,
No M3s.
Sweet spot. No M3s to start with, not to start with, give you something to grow into.
Yeah, sure.
And then if you're, you know, a JDM enthusiast, I wouldn't do the Evo X number.
Or I wouldn't do the Subaru. No, I wouldn't do the Subaru, you know, STI.
I would do, you know, I can't, we don't have any.
We do Honda.
So maybe we do Honda Civic or something.
EG Honda Civic, just pretend they're all over the place and they got one of those.
And if you want a new one and you want something that scoots a little bit,
either the Elantra now or what was the one before that that they stopped making the three door?
Veloster.
Yeah, the Veloster. That would be a fun one. We don't make it anymore.
So, but you know, just, that's if you are, if you're a front wheel drive kind of person.
So there's, there's no reason. It's kind of like the first car for your son or daughter.
You don't want it to be McLaren.
I mean, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I got a strict thing.
It's like 200 ish horsepower manual transmission.
Ideally a back seat for insurance purposes only or for people with no legs.
I want them to have as few passengers as possible.
I want their hand busy so they're not on the phone and I want the engine to be able to get out of their own way,
but not a lot more. That's kind of, you know, sounds good. Yeah.
That's it.
That's it.
But once again, we, once again, we, once again, we bravely proved ourselves absolutely right.
That's right.
Thanks everybody. We did that.
Nobody, nobody disagrees, right?
That's right. Nobody, nobody can tell us we're wrong on this.
I hear no dissenters.
You know, if they wanted to dissent, they could write into another podcast.
No, they could write into the garage ears and draining a gmail.com.
We love nothing more than to hear from our wonderful people who listen to this show.
That's right.
Tell us what you think about this.
If you have a good question, we'll give you a code name.
It's amazing how we can come up with every single time we come up with a code name for these people.
It's amazing.
It's a unique experience for them and for us.
I know. It is.
You will know when it's you and you'll know that the code name is you,
but nobody else can break our codes because that's how we roll.
On this premier racing podcast, that is how we roll.
That is, that is.
Well, Mr. Dawson, do we miss anything on this one?
You know, I think we, I think we talked about everything I can think about of it.
But also remember, I'm just a extremely low dollar dirt bag to begin with.
So I'm sure you're going to major there.
No, no.
Okay.
I can't really relate to the expensive cars, but some of our listeners can.
I'd love to hear what they think about this.
And you know what else Ben would love to go drive your pasty carts.
Sure. Why not?
Yes, you can write into garage ears and training at gmail.com,
or you can write into Ben the hobbit foot Dawson that gmail.com.
And you know, if he can get his schedule to come,
he will, he will gladly show you where your car is fully capable of doing.
Absolutely.
You may get scared in the passenger seat though.
You may spend several hours hovering over a trash can after that.
These things happen.
The key is thumbs up and thumbs down is a very good thing to communicate to Ben
before you get to the pit lane because he will come in.
But if you don't, you might, you know, litter your windshield or your helmet.
We did it.
Thank you, Ben.
Thank you.
That was fun.
Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.
I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless
for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.
It's not just for celebrities.
So do like I did and have one of your assistance assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.
I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch.
About this episode
The hosts dig into why some people bring very expensive cars to HPDE events, pointing to insurance, wealth, and the lower-risk format of non-wheel-to-wheel driving. They also make the case that beginners should start in modest, forgiving cars rather than supercars, with a strong preference for around 200 horsepower and a manual transmission. Along the way, they suggest practical starter platforms like the Miata, Toyota 86/BRZ/FR-S, and BMW 3 Series.
A recent post on the book of faces had a question: How can people ever race $50k, $100k, or even more expensive cars on track. Plus what would be our three cars to require everyone to start with on track. Who better to talk to about this than Ben Dawson. Let's Dominate!
A link to the episode is: https://tinyurl.com/HighDollarCarsOnTrack
We hope you enjoy this episode!
If you would like to help grow our podcast and high-performance driving and racing:
You can subscribe to our podcast on the podcast provider of your choice, including the Apple podcast app, Google music, Amazon, YouTube, etc.
Also, if you could give our podcast a (5-star?) rating, that we would appreciate very much. Even better, a podcast review would help us to grow the passion and sport of high performance driving and we would appreciate it.
Best regards,
Vicki, Jennifer, Ben, Alan, Jeremy, and Bill
Hosts of the Garage Heroes in Training Podcast and Garage Heroes in Training racing team drivers
Money saving tips:
1) Enter the code GHiT 25 for $50 off the Fire Links hardware system with a 1 year membership included and/or a an extra three months if you subscribe now at https://firelaps.com/
2) Enter code "GHIT" for a 10% discount code to all our listeners during the checkout process at https://candelaria-racing.com/ for a Sentinel system to capture and broadcast live video and telemetry.
3) Enter the code "ghitlikesapex!" when you order and Apex Pro system from https://apextrackcoach.com/ and you will receive a free Windshield Suction Cup Mount for the system, a savings of $40.
