Ep.298 – Dinner(s) with Ben Keating: Kathleen Keating

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And now for Dinner with Racers presented by Continental Tire.

With your hosts, Ryan Eversley and Sean Heckman.

Please hold your radios down.

I've been driving very angry.

In the sound of a driver on the radio turning a race.

What do you think I should go ahead?

Engine on.

And welcome to Dinner with Racers.

I'm Sean Heckman.

I'm Ryan Eversley.

So it's November.

It is time for the normal Dinner with Racers batch of releases.

We've kind of developed a history where we put them out the week of Thanksgiving.

But if there's one common theme over the last few years is on social media

when it becomes like the Friday before the Thanksgiving week,

there's always a handful of people who are like,

I'm starting my road trip now.

Would be good to get something.

And we're like, yeah, we get it, but we have a tradition.

So Ryan, what are we doing?

We are putting out a little Ben Keating episode

to kind of finish out our trip that we took with him

when we went down to Texas last year

and spent a week in the life of Ben Keating.

And we learned a lot about that, guys.

Exactly.

So if you go to the youtube.com forward slash motor trend,

our Motor Trends series, we did an episode that came out,

I think, last year called Dinners with Ben Keating,

just like we have with all of our other video episodes.

We did all of these dinners,

but we just sort of used the highlights to put together

the one hour episode we did with him.

So these are the more extended,

lesser edited versions of the same interviews

so that you can hear a lot more context

and a lot more detail about Ben Keating

and from a perspective that's different from just being him.

And so this first episode is actually with his wife, Kathleen.

Yeah, Kathleen's been a huge supporter of Ben's racing career.

In fact, she kind of helped him get the whole thing started

with a gift.

And so we got to learn a little bit about that.

Also, what early life with Ben was like,

how they met the beginnings of the relationship

and how she's handled his not only professional

business success, but professional racing success as well.

Exactly.

So they go back a long, long time.

They actually met in college and they've been together ever since.

And so for this episode,

we're going to hear that more extended version

of what Kathleen Keating has seen in Ben

and what their adventures have been like together

because they are very much a duo

in the many adventures of Ben Keating's life.

So beyond hearing with how Ben's racing

all started with a gift,

what else are we going to hear about, Ryan?

How being a project can get the girl.

Yeah.

Oh, and the importance of being liked by the spouse.

Does that matter, Ryan?

Oh, it sure does, Sean.

In fact, we have spoken about this many times on the show,

but we actually got to speak to a very prominent racer's wife

and find out if it does matter

if the spouse of your co-driver likes you.

Exactly.

So we actually ate at the Keating home

out in Victoria, Texas,

but it was catered, so to speak.

They're part of a country club called

the Victoria Country Club.

And so they brought food over.

And I had a chicken sandwich.

I had the steak.

It's a fun episode.

It's a great deeper dive into their dynamic

and, of course, getting to somebody else's perspective

on Ben and all things that make him as successful

as he is in all facets of life.

But of course, Ryan, this was all possible

because of, well, a sponsor that we continue to have.

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Use that hashtag dinner with Conti.

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It all provides a tangible metric to show

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Tag Continental Tag Us.

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And also, we got links.

We got links you got to click on, Ryan.

That's right.

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we have a link that says,

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But also use that hashtag dinnerwithconti.

We also have something else, Sean.

We have a Patreon now.

We do have a Patreon.

So a Patreon is basically like a club membership.

So in addition to all the free podcasting we do

for you courtesy of Continental Tire,

we also have sort of a behind the scenes podcast

and newsletter and fan questions that we answer

all at patreon.com forward slash DWR show.

There's a few different memberships you can sign up for.

But the cool one is called Dinner Club.

And with Dinner Club, we give fans a lot of access, Ryan.

Yeah, we've been doing that now for a couple of months.

Now we put out eight or nine of the longer sit downs

between you and I where sometimes we're eating together.

Sometimes it's online.

But it's been really nice to kind of just tell stories

about how the show started,

behind the scenes stories from each episode,

giving you a heads up on who the next guests

are going to be as well as letting you guys ask questions

of those guests in the upcoming podcast.

So it's just a kind of a bigger behind the scenes way

that you can participate with Dinner with Racers.

And we've actually been really enjoying it

because it's just you and I talking trash

and kind of figuring out what's going on,

as well as doing race reviews of our individual racing.

So that's enough of us talking.

Should we, should we hear Ben and Kathleen Keating?

Take it away.

The Keatings.

All right, we're going to start in five, four, three, two.

So we sat down with you, did a podcast in 2020.

So we heard your story,

but we definitely didn't hear Kathleen's side of things.

So where does Ben come into your life originally?

So we met at A&M.

I think it was junior year?

Maybe.

First saw each other in sophomore year.

Sophomore year.

But we were in Fortran, Segatu, Chakubarte.

Was that right?

Our professor?

That was C++, but yes.

Okay.

So you met in a programming class?

Yeah.

You two met in a programming class?

Very romantic.

But he was the guy with long hair, believe it or not.

I'm seeing it.

Back in the day.

And motorcycle helmet tucked under his arm.

And I was, he was on the back row.

Ben was a badass computer engineer?

Well, no.

Did he actually have a motorcycle or just a helmet?

He did have a motorcycle.

And I would sit on the front row,

kind of the scholastic individual.

And I just thought he was kind of hot.

So you were like the good student, good girl,

and here comes bad boy Ben Keating.

Yes.

With the motorcycle helmet and the flowing badass hair.

Yes.

Okay.

How long are we talking here?

How long hair?

I mean, I'd say like brush the shoulders.

It's pretty good.

And I mean, it was all up front too.

So it was good.

He was growing out the bangs.

Yeah.

I almost always wore it in a ponytail.

You did.

Yeah.

Okay.

That was good.

He was cute.

Was the intro a class thing,

or did you actually put the moves on one another?

I was sure for help with my homework.

Nice.

Yeah.

Little did I know he was the 4.0.

In the class.

Yeah.

So the help was not genuine.

No.

This is a smooth move.

Yeah.

That's right.

But we were both the same degree, industrial engineering.

So classes overlapped for the next...

I guess we started...

Once we started dating, we never stopped.

He asked me to a ridiculous concert.

Yes.

Who was it?

Millie Vanilly.

No.

You might...

This would have been...

Because Ross Perot was running for...

Yeah.

No.

1992.

It was 1992.

Millie Vanilly was just getting voted.

And you guys might know him

from his NASCAR stuff.

Mojo Nixon.

Do you know him?

No.

Wow.

Okay.

We got stumped.

Yeah.

No.

Now we do a tangent onto him.

We walked in.

Of course I didn't know anything about each other.

I'm trying to impress her.

And we walked in and his first song was

Ross Perot's Daughter Put a Louisiana Lip Lock

on My Love Board Chop.

Kathleen, did it work?

Were you impressed?

This is my favorite song.

I was a little taken aback.

I will say.

Because you're very much a good student type.

I really probably wasn't but I was projecting that

with the bun in my hair.

Sure.

Little pencil.

So is it bad music?

Not that it was...

It's bad music.

You got it.

And it was awkward first day.

For both of us.

Yeah.

Well first, he had only...

I had only ever seen him in a motorcycle

and so when he asked me out I said

I don't know like what do I need to wear on this date

because I was like I've not ridden on the back

of a motorcycle before.

So what does that mean?

Like what?

I guess not a skirt, not a dress.

And he was like what?

I mean I'm going to pick you up on a car.

I have a Ford Explorer.

I'm like oh because oh but also when we had

done study group together he can't...

He would always wear this like a Haynes white t-shirt

that was ripped from armpit to beginning of sleeve

and it was safety pinned together.

So I really thought the...

Man you could pin him.

That he was...

I mean I was like he's really cute

but I think he's maybe...

Homeless.

Yeah.

I wasn't sure.

The term is fixer-upper.

You saw a fixer-upper.

I can...

Yeah, tell them a project.

A project.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, all right.

So I just wasn't sure where the date

was going.

But it's not like before even this day

there was some rapport there

because you've been in study groups

together and you'd ask for tutoring

and things like that.

A little bit.

There.

Minimal.

Okay.

Minimal.

We said hi to each other.

But...

You thought I was dating somebody else?

Or I guess I was maybe.

After we'd been dating...

Not exclusive but dating for six weeks

you know my family was going on

vacation to the Bahamas

and I thought it would be fun

since I'm already going to be there

I'll stay over

and we'll find some cheap place to rent

and so I invited her to come over

to the Bahamas.

Pretty early too.

Six weeks I think.

Six weeks and she couldn't believe

her parents let her go.

Very strict Catholic.

Okay.

Military.

Oh your dad was in the military?

My dad.

Okay.

And so here you have this long-haired

hippie with a motorcycle

picking you up that has holes in a shirt.

And he wants to take you to the islands.

Yes.

And my two brothers were in the military also.

So you know one of the favorite

quotes of our early dating was

we came back

and there was this other guy

that was hot for Kathleen

and you know she says man

we came back for the spring semester

of that year and she says

what's wrong with you?

You know why are you acting so weird?

And he says I can't compete with the Bahamas.

Felt like a major victory.

So you literally been together ever since.

Yep.

We have it would be 30 years next year.

My goodness.

And you married 30 years.

We've been married for 30 years but I guess.

So how long did you date until

till marriage?

You.

Three years.

Until marriage?

Until marriage.

Until marriage yes.

Yeah we were engaged a year and a half so.

So basically you graduate you get engaged and.

We got we got married the weekend

the week after we graduated.

Oh wow.

Yeah so you were a complete adult

as soon as you got out of school.

I went to work for Dell and he went to

well you didn't have a job at that point.

Yeah I told him.

I was like he didn't have a job when we graduated.

Yeah.

Wait so where Kathleen where are your folks on this?

Oh we should tell that story.

Oh my gosh.

That's such a good story.

Because he's not been eating the

no I'm the baby of six.

And by like my oldest sister was 19 years older than I was

and I was a complete accident

and I was 11 years after the fifth.

So all of her brothers and sisters

had already gone through all of this

and some of them had already been through divorces.

You know most of them had not picked a spouse very well.

That's what I would say.

This is going to be on the air but I guess.

They probably would agree with you.

I think they would agree with me.

I think they would.

But you know I didn't want to ask her parents

for her dad for her hand in marriage

because I didn't think that they would keep a secret.

Because there's so many so many voices in the family.

You know I didn't think they could keep it a secret

and so I decided to we went to the Bahamas on vacation

and I decided I was going to pop the question

while we were at in the Bahamas.

And so I went down this is before cell phones.

I went down to the phone company

where they had a little closet

when you had to give them the number

and they would dial it for you and patch it through.

And so I went to call her father

and her father and he's like oh I don't know.

You know he starts asking me 20 questions.

Grilling me.

And you're like hours away from doing this.

That's right.

Are you going to raise your kids Catholic?

Are you going to become a Catholic?

Are you going to raise your children Catholic?

He was a Episcopalian.

I was Catholic.

And you know after we got the after he asked me all these questions

he said you know Ben you know can you call me back tomorrow?

I want to sleep on it.

And so I went back and I popped the question without talking to him

and the very next day I called him back

and her mom he started asking me questions again.

Her mom went in the bedroom got on the other phone

and said shut up John.

Ben we're thrilled for you.

Really funny.

Now is that him playing games or is he genuine?

Oh no okay.

He's extremely serious.

I mean there was a point where I was like

dad I think you like Ben more than you like me.

Like my father loved you so much.

But he was really concerned about you know

he had worked really hard to pay for Kathleen to go through college

and get this engineering degree.

He was also an engineer.

He had also engineering.

She's the only one that followed in his footsteps in that way.

But he was really concerned that she was going to use that degree.

Right.

Yeah yeah.

And so.

Wanted to.

Yeah wanted her to.

Yeah.

Very concerned about our faith and how we would raise our children.

But then he quickly became a fan favorite of Ben Keating.

Nicely done.

So were kids always in the plan or was that something that.

Yeah.

I think so.

I mean I feel like we start off with like we want five or something like that.

I thought.

Six.

Yeah.

Four.

Cheese.

Yeah.

But we wanted a lot of kids.

Uh huh.

And then we had Carter like let's see two or three years after we got married.

And he was a delightful kid but fussy baby.

But then we had Kate two years after that and we were like all right we're done.

We wanted four kids.

We had one we're like okay maybe three is good.

Yeah.

We had two and we're like let's not press our luck.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

Yeah so I think one thing you could obviously speak on it that I haven't witnessed out of you.

I see at the racetrack I consider you a buddy and a friend and I know Sean does too.

But I don't know you as a dad.

You know so like can you speak to Ben's fatherly abilities?

Yes.

I think at the beginning he was working so much in the car business that I really felt like

like I remember saying to my mom like I'm just going to have to be willing.

I mean Bell DeBell is the is what you hear in the business and I need to be willing to

like if we're going to have children I'm willing to know I might be doing it alone

most of the time.

So there was a lot of that a lot of thinking about that.

And that was a conscious choice before you had your first.

It was a conscious choice.

And we talked about it a lot and we had a good support system.

I mean thank you Lord for Carolyn Jenkins and Margaret Swofford and your mom and you know

Lipsay.

He's you're so good with kids like weirdly I mean he's almost more natural with

him than like I'm the caregiver but he is has a natural like children love him.

Gravitate toward him.

I think you're because you're goofy or maybe I'm a kid.

Yeah right yeah yeah I are one.

Where I'm like no you know or I'm more than I mean I wouldn't say the disciplinary

end because you would always back me up on that.

But anyway I was the structure and Ben was the fun and but we were always a team

and he was always right there to help support me and back up whatever wherever we were

whatever we were dealing with at the time.

Ben's had a really successful career in the automotive industry

but obviously there's been ups and downs at times.

We've we heard a few of those when we did the podcast.

Can you tell when something's not going right on the work side of things with him

without him saying anything.

Oh absolutely.

I mean I feel like because of where we started so low.

Um that I learned a lot of cues back then but also just yeah I mean I can tell when he's

stressed out or when the you know he's just like smoking a lot of cigars.

Well let's talk about the early days then.

So you know obviously we know Ben now as the car salesman and always selling

at 20 years old sophomore in college could you tell this was a salesman.

Was he always selling in some way.

No I mean at that time he didn't even really want to go into the car business.

I mean at the beginning.

And then he had had an internship that he was like you know if these are the people

that could be my competitors then I feel like this is perhaps the the venue for me.

Um but no I just knew we had like minded interests and values character.

His character was shown through from the get go.

You know charmer obviously cute great hair.

Yeah but I I mean I guess I knew I felt in my heart he would be a good

provider and a good mate and supporter for me.

Obviously Ben's father you know knows his way around the car business but from what we've

always understood is Ben was a little bit resistant to that was not going to follow

in his father's footsteps.

How much of that did you see early on.

Oh I mean I think it was like just taking off the table.

Not going to work in the car business.

Yeah so when when you get married to this unemployed 22 year old is at any point are

you sitting there saying why don't you just call your dad.

Not really I mean I guess I just knew he I mean we would talk I mean you had stuff

kind of percolating you at that point you were already kind of thinking you had already

done the internship you were thinking about what you were going to do you just

currently at that time didn't have the the job.

So we dated for three years but during that time I did this internship and my feeling was

Kathleen you go get a job anywhere USA and I'll get a job in the car business wherever we go.

I see.

And you know I I picked out which dealership I wanted to go to work at yeah and I'd

interviewed there several times okay and I'd they based on where she was going to work.

Yes yeah you know she was at Dell computer in Austin yeah you know managing a line building

laptop computers if her work takes her to Austin or Menlo park or wherever wherever the

computer business is going to go you're going to find a car dealership or some sort of

automotive he said you pick the job yeah and you'll work around that and so I went to work

at covert Ford but I interviewed there yeah I had a beard at the time I interviewed there

and as I was leaving you know a guy stopped me and said hey these guys are super conservative

if you want a job here they're never going to hire you with a beard.

And so I went home and I shaved wow okay and it took about two weeks for me to get color

back to my face right yeah and so I waited two weeks and I went and interviewed again

they had no idea I was the same person that's awesome and they didn't use your father either

that's right I didn't talk about the fact that I grew up in the business but I still didn't get the

job I shaved and so I got ready to go to a different dealership and the company I'd done

the internship with called me and said hey what are you doing I said well you know I tried to

get a job over there but now I'm going over here and like no you can't do that you know

let me make a call and I mean he was you know he wouldn't say it this way but I'll say he got me the

job and yeah you know we didn't see each other much then no it was horrible because her job was

from like 4 a.m. 4 a.m. until 2 p.m. something like that or it was it was it was four tens

yeah and I was going in at 10 and working until 10 p.m. and so we never saw each other except Sunday

and that quickly that got old yeah I mean at that point that I was like it's either the

something's got to change yeah like we're not gonna have a marriage if we continue this

and you know I had this big plan for myself I thought more of myself than I should have

really but you know I got upset that they promoted a guy off the sales floor

and I wasn't even interviewed for the job and so I realized at the time there were 45 sales

people at this dealership I realized I'm not gonna I'm gonna it's gonna be a long time

before I get promoted because I think they're doing some sort of seniority level whereas you're

looking at your performance yeah I think so yeah and so I decided I didn't want to wait that long

and that's when I called my dad and said hey what about making me use car manager

oh I thought he called you no I called him every time I tell that story I say he called you

that I just twist that in my head I knew I was really close to my dad at the time

and I knew that the only reason he hadn't fired is used car managers because he didn't

have a replacement but he hated his used car manager and so I just said hey how about me

this guy who'd been resistant to working for his father and sort of being in the same footsteps

this whole time all of a sudden works for his dad did you feel any resistance to that kind of work

not to the car business right but working for his dad as a next career move I did yeah

early on I mean

I will say there was excitement because I knew our marriage needed a change for in career paths

but I mean I mean I think I knew even at that point familial business is not

doesn't always go well yeah like gonna and yeah yeah I wish I'd known a little more

I mean all's well that ends well I mean it put us exactly on the path we needed to be

that's right you know I feel like the first four years were pretty good but the last couple were

really right of being the working for your dad yeah yeah and at that point both of our kids

were born in Houston so it was they were both born after you took that job yeah and so

effectively you've been resistant to working for your father this whole time but by working

for your father it creates the stability for you guys to cross paths a little bit easier in

terms of the hours you're spending and get the family going the way you could always

wanted to absolutely and at that point I was not working I was going to go into I was going

to work at compact okay yeah yeah I mean really killing it yeah and then or a technical writing

because I was trying to think of like what career path like could I could do well raising a family

and then I got pregnant and they've not ever worked again so the conversation that Ben wants to go out

on his own how how is that for you you've got kids you're you seem very put together in terms

of how you come off here at least like I imagine big risk may not be your your favorite thing

big risk is not my favorite thing I'm married to Ben Keeney I know I know that's why we're like so

I like there's like the voice here and the voice here no it was it was a scary time but we we would

just bought our prime piece of property that we thought we were going to like make our lifetime

home and it was it was a hard piece of property to find and buy and we were super excited about

that and the relationship was falling apart with his family so you know I'm two hours away from my

family we have a difficult relationship at this point with the grandparents his parents

and I was like I can't even shop at Target like we can't I mean I was like we have no money

I mean we had no money like everything we had was was was in the business that we were not

gonna receive at that point so it was it was tumultuous yeah but even before that somebody

who's risk averse when he says hey I want to do this there's usually two ways somebody who's

risk averse a spouse or a partner if they're risk averse is usually two ways you you either

understand what you're getting into and you just say screw it I'm engaged or I'm

this is my partnership so I'm part of it whether it's a good decision or not yeah or they mislead

you oh no I was a hundred percent the first okay I mean I totally trusted Ben I mean completely I

still obviously do you've led me down many paths but no I completely on board okay I mean

supportive the whole thing but very aware of the reality of if you're gonna go out and do your

own deal with car dealerships it could be risky yeah I mean and at the point you weren't even going

on your own that's right I mean I wasn't going I mean I was buying into Tombaul Ford with I was

partners with my father I was buying five percent every year yeah and so the long-term plan was

we're gonna buy Tombaul Ford and this is gonna be it forever like a solid investment

and Tombaul for being your dad's deal that's right yeah and then you know when he fired me

then I'm unemployed then I'm like okay now I want to go do my own deal because

I don't want partners right yeah I learned a lesson that's right and that's when I couldn't

shop at Target yeah you know I remember specifically having a $1,200 mortgage payment do and I had

you know a thousand dollars in the bank you know total to our name yeah and you know a good friend

of ours still who's a dealer he was a wholesaler at the time and I used his dealer license to go

to the auction to buy two cars I took him to another dealer friend and wholesaled them to him to

make just to get $500 just to make the rent make the mortgage payment yeah I don't know if you

know this but when when Kathleen mentioned that she couldn't afford to shop at Target your face

changed like you immediately went to like it it was a tough time yeah yeah it was yeah when you

were Kathleen when you were in college did you have a credit card no because you didn't believe in

them I mean I think my parents wouldn't love me okay okay like did you believe in carrying

debt no no no I mean ever since I've if I've ever had a card I pay it off each month yeah because

you're just a no-dead cash positive on everything you do yes no debt and you married a car dealer

yes heavy debt this is face change again outside of the carpons we actually we just did a podcast

a couple months ago with uh uh with Graham Rahall actually and one of the owners of that team had

it has a phrase uh Mike Lannigan um that uh a little bit of debt is good uh because it sort of

drives the business forward by keeping you on your toes and always reinvesting and I I feel

like bed lives in this world yeah no I was always uh you know I knew that you had to have cash

yeah to buy another opportunity yeah and you had to have cash to be able to weather the storm

and you had to have cash to operate a dealership which means a credit line that's right well you know

anytime I had anybody was willing to loan me any money on anything I was taking that loan yeah

because I wanted to keep all my cash yeah you know I I could have a $500,000 a loan

and $500,000 in cash and I wasn't going to pay off the debt yeah uh and so I mean when we on our first

seven dealership purchases which was one per year for seven years yeah uh they were almost

all 100% leveraged almost 100% loan so no anything up front on all these purposes

almost like I was using the same money yeah every time you know it was up front yeah

but you know it was the same kind of equity like okay I'll put up this you give me a loan for that

and and I would roll that on to the next one and the next one you're just adding debt after

debt after debt to grow and that's what growth is in the car dealership business if you're gonna

if you want to grow this is the kind of investment you have to make early on for sure yeah

Kathleen where are you on this I feel like knowing his ability with I mean he loved

economics I mean that was kind of your second little side major I just 100% I'm I'm team team BK

but this was never hidden this was never anything where you were like what are you doing you knew

every time we talked about I mean sometimes he might now it's now it happens more often

that he would forget I'm like we have another dealership but at this point you also trust

if he's going to leverage you out a little bit like I he knew that I supported him 100% we had

those conversations and I felt like he was making the best decision for our family okay and so

I was on board how much is he driven by business sense versus competitive edge

oh my gosh I mean are they not one in the same sometimes being competitive means losing business

sense okay so I feel like business sense drives everything but the competitive is always right

underneath that like he won't I don't think he will make a poor business decision because of

competitiveness I think the smart business decision will always went out I would I mean

I'd agree with that but you know I would say you know having a dealership make money is what pays

the bills you know beating all the other car dealers is what makes it fun and so you know

the competitive edge is what makes it fun yeah you know making wise business decision is what

keeps it right keeps it going right and I think you know if you make those good decisions then you

can be more competitive and then you can keep moving that ship along in the first few years when

you are balancing that and that desire to grow and and adding to the leverage so to speak

what was the biggest fight I think just wanting him around more oh okay so the time taken away

not the risk of putting the family out yeah you know just like the burden on me or what

felt like a burden at the time yeah just mean we moved here took a while to really assimilate

to victoria to victoria because from houston yes from houston so similar yes so similar so

similar and when we moved here our kids were two and four and he was I mean he really had to

work all of the time it's I mean six days a week yeah well I mean if you're way upside down in terms

of what you owe and try to make all that work it's that's a pretty big motive yeah and I mean

as much as I wanted to support that at the same time I've got a two-year-old and a four-year-old

and we're living in a rent house yeah with the rain leaking in through the roof yes

uh so it was it was some rough years but fun years too like I will always remember those years and

and you were around as much as you could be like your kids I don't think whatever think you weren't

there but I mean I think of you know talking about the relationship side of things you know

I feel like we were never closer than when I was unemployed okay I got when I got fired and I

didn't have anything we were uh super close yeah like the struggle yeah yeah uh and you're home more

she's like what you weren't that doesn't hurt you're finally less close than you're going to target

you had a lot of free time and we had no money to do anything right right but uh you know even in

those early years I mean I felt like uh I felt like we were still super close you know uh there

was there there's something about uh you know coming to a new city where you don't know anybody

and you know not having the support of your family you know where you got a cling to this right here

yeah we did you gotta make it work yeah were you seeing the vision early on

I mean not where we are today for sure I don't think I I mean I don't think you saw it back

then like I I don't I don't think any of us either of us knew what the grand plan was but

I never worried like I always knew we'd be fine so Ben races cars because of you Kathleen

yes I am often reminded of you've seen some of the rooms here yeah I feel like

yes often reminded I feel like I feel like this is a reply in a fight a few times

no no no no I mean truly I'm so so grateful that he has something that brings him joy and

I mean honestly kind of takes him out of town a couple weeks

there it is there it is so tell us tell us the tell us the story from your eyes of how did

how did this start I can't even remember I mean I remember that I bought him a Christmas present

but I can't remember how I found it okay but um there was somebody said like oh you can take a car

out and on the it was the Brian College station track Texas World Speedway and I believe I paid

$225 and I thought I have nailed the Christmas present like this is and I mean and that was

you know was it it was a considerable amount of money but I was like this is the big gift

right this is perfect um 200 bucks at the huge expense in racing yeah you could either borrow

you could borrow the car or you could bring your own and I thought he's gonna love this

right and so here we go and you were right yeah I didn't know it quite turned into I would

have never imagined that it turned into this so what what did you buy him because it was the

viper thing so it was a weekend no it was just a weekend you could take any car you wanted okay

or you could uh like use on track car and you could go out and it was a weekend of just driving

around on the track they had a couple rental miata's okay or you could bring your own car

which I did what like two years later with you or a year later a year later you did the miata

for yeah I was trying to get her hooked too yeah absolutely I was like one of us has to raise

the children so you'll you'll tell us this later as well but uh so so Ben how did this go

like when you received the gift what did you think I thought great you know uh it'd be fun

but I didn't know that any normal person could take their car to a racetrack I didn't know what

a road course was I didn't follow racing at all at all uh and I went there and I mean

it was just opened my eyes to a whole new world uh it was the most fun I'd ever had uh and I didn't

really have an outlet at the time uh and I was working all the time lots of you know stressful

situations uh and I yeah I didn't really have a hobby my hobby was work uh and uh I remember it

I remember sitting in the you know shed can't really call it a garage at Texas World uh

uh I remember sitting under the awning after the first session and uh I'm like this is the most relaxed

I have felt maybe ever uh and I called it an adrenaline flush because you know I was shaking

with adrenaline when I'm in the car uh and then you get out and I have you know it was

four groups 20 minute sessions so I go for my 20 minutes of super high adrenaline and then I'm

sitting there for an hour waiting on the next session and because I don't know that I'm supposed to be

you know checking tire pressures or brakes or anything else you know I didn't bring any

tools or any equipment anything so I just sat there uh and as I sat there for that hour I'm

like man I'm just melted in this chair I mean this I it feels so good to be relaxed again

well and there's something to be said I mean racing requires so much focus and so much attention

that in in the kind of deal where where you're so pulled apart in so many directions and you

sort of have to be 80 to make it all work yeah this is such the opposite that it probably is

a really good escape it was and at that point in time I had so much fun at that point in time

I just said hey I'm making a promise to myself that I'm going to do this at least once a year

oh man it's adorable yeah it's adorable yeah how many series did you race in this year

only one just one this year only one okay one and a half yeah one plus Daytona okay so that's two

series yeah series yes yeah oh I thought you said seasons no no no how many series did you

race in this year oh this year uh uh yeah I did uh Imsa plus Lamont yeah plus a jump car yeah yeah

yeah so we went from once a year to oftentimes multiple different series per year yeah and

oftentimes multiple cars in one race that's true yeah yeah like our quickly things change our

conversations are like how many races oh only like maybe 12 and then I'm like somehow we end up

15 we were at 15 for a few years yeah and if you don't know who Ben is or the kind of racing

he does these aren't the little races like champ champ cars obviously like the little races but you're

doing WC you're doing Lamont the Rolex Daytona like the two biggest sports cars in the world

and you know and every time I met the jump car race champ car jump car uh I'm you know I say

this might be the most fun I have all year long why am I doing all these other things

you know I can't remember when it was but at some point along the way you know I told Kathleen

I'm you know we're we're buying another dealership and she says Ben what the hell are you doing you

don't need the money you don't need the headaches yeah yeah why in the world are you buying this

dealership and this is the point you only have one right no no no I had we we had I don't know

seven eight nine sure yeah you know uh n plus one whatever you know yeah but uh she's like

what the hell are you thinking what are you doing this for yeah and I said honey that looks like a

car dealership but that's a racing program means to an end that's right man I understood yeah yeah

well you really understood when you're like okay that one was a racing program what's this one

right like honey that looks like a dealership but that's private aviation I was like maybe that

was my shopping yeah yeah that's target over there that's right so in 2005 $225 track day

was the big Christmas gift yes did you have any idea no absolutely I mean I'm not sure

I mean at hindsight I would have said yes but if I had had a glimpse I might not have

yeah I get that well at the time of the money both yeah I mean absolutely both what did he get you

that's a great question not memorable something a target gift card

gave her a time back yeah peace and quiet yeah um at the time something a lot more expensive than

that I know you're a good gift he's a really good gift yeah like WC season gifts or yeah at the

time but now it's like no there's a new oracle coming out it's pretty sporty yeah I'm like the new

quarter that's awesome we've started to compare everything to like wheels or to what wheels cost or

what is yeah so I don't know if Ben brings this home or not but he's arguably one of the best

gentleman driver on the planet one of the best ever do it does that does that resonate with you

do you realize that absolutely I'm so so proud yeah I mean it's uh the time and effort and study and

I mean he's in it to win it yeah 100% from start to finish based on his day-to-day activities

as a boss manager car sales all of it is it surprise you that he was able to find the

success on the racing side not at all yeah I mean he just is I feel like when he has a target

he uh hits it yeah but back to the like you bought him a track day because it seemed like an awesome

thing that you saw but from everything I've heard Ben like didn't wasn't a huge race fan you didn't

come from a racing background like you neither of you were racing people I really have no I mean

I wish my menopausal brain was better but what I will say is that I cannot remember but for some

reason this was presented to me we I mean obviously we have a heart for we always our dream was to own

a dealership and Brian College Station and to someday go and live there like because we thought

that would make it you know reliving those but now we not a chance in hell I mean you know

but I don't know somehow it just was presented to me and I was like you know that's a great thing

I think I like it I don't think I really over thought it I just mean I was a car guy I loved

cars sure I mean a track day for a guy who's in dealerships makes sense yeah but it wasn't like

you were watching Indy car and Imsa raises on TV and and you didn't own a lot of cars at that

point no if any I mean other than your driver took that car off the showroom floor of the

Port La Vaca Dodge yeah so it wasn't like he had a kick car that he wanted to go race

I don't know but I mean I'm hearing a lot of the questions that you're asking a lot of her answers

to me I think that the way I think about myself in all of those situations

is that I'm a pretty good problem solver you know I think it comes from the engineering

background of you know I might not be very good at writing a paper but I can you know you give me

a problem to solve I'll figure it out and that's how I viewed business you know I view business

as a problem to solve I view racing as a problem to solve and you know I think that that's kind of the

the competitive part of me is you know figuring out you know how to solve the problem in a better way

than somebody else whether that's on the racetrack or in business or whatever yeah

so this starts in 2005 do you remember the first year where you kind of this is for Kathleen

your your first track days 2005 Ben doesn't think so maybe I'll do this once a year

do you remember the first big quote to come through the door and you're realizing what you've done

I don't think he really revealed those quotes

what about now yeah um um now we just have different conversations where

he is transparent enough that like if I'm feeling guilty about maybe something I've spent

or something so it's timed out I just go to target all you want honey

by the whole story okay so I would go to target so what okay so what's the tell that you're

getting buttered up oh hmm that's a good question shows up in the mail but like all this I got it today

okay okay but like all of a sudden I don't and I apologize I don't know you're you're no I'm like

the Bible of all of a sudden a new burberry bag show no he's not do you know there's he doesn't

buy me guilty gifts okay so let's say so a new bag shows up and it means the season we just we have

those conversations like if I am feeling guilty if I am I'm the guilty one and if I'm feeling guilty

for something I'm spent or thinking about spending right um I'll share it with him and he will often

be often be very kind and be like transparent about and then I'm like well I wish I'd known

that wait so hold on yeah let's let's let's get some let's get some comparisons I don't want to get

anybody in trouble here yeah I'm fine with it so like I'm and I don't know but I'm guessing

you buy yourself something or buy something that you want I don't know what these numbers are but

I'm assuming it's some sort of designer item that you want to have an article of clothing or a bag

or a sure sure yes yes yes right but these are things that are in the high hundreds

two thousands of dollars generally or they add up to that maybe sure oh right okay I understand that no

credit um but uh you're saying this to Ben who is racing at Le Mans which is not cheap no and it

does not compare to the price of a few handbags so does he remind you know what kind of handbag

she's I don't I'm not a part of this Ben I try to stop him um but it's like does that does that

enter the conversation at all like well you're out running Le Mans or Ben does this enter your

own mind of like I got to let her do it because I'm gonna get in trouble for what I'm doing I would

say that uh yeah where we are today is very different than it was early on oh my gosh 10 years ago

sure uh you know 10 years ago I mean you know I've shared with you uh in the other podcast

my history of uh of going through drug rehab a couple of times in high school I'm still that person

I still have that personality and I can very clearly look back at you know the racing season

I did in 08 and 09 and 2010 when we had seven dealerships and and five of them had gone bankrupt

the the manufacturer had gone bankrupt uh and clearly I should not have been racing

clearly I did not have the money to even go club racing at that level uh and uh it didn't

matter I was doing it right so you you saw that for lack of a better question you saw the addict

side of you come out that's right uh it you know it you know now uh it's easy for me to say you

know I'm spending uh I'm spending a very small portion of uh of what we make uh and it's just a

very different scenario uh and uh you know I would say Kathleen is comfortable uh going out

and and buying what she wants to buy uh because we can which is just very different than uh than

it was uh 10 years ago but I would also say we're both kind of conservatively driven like

we have I mean it's a different kind of conservative than it was back in the day but um

I don't know I feel like it's I'm still that target girl at heart but you know let's go back to 2008

so once you sort of got the bug and you like by 2008 2009 you start delving into Daytona 24 and

you know my first year of doing that was 2011 okay that one and the reason I did it in 2011

was because my grandparents had both died in 2010 right and they left me that's right uh yeah

inheritance yeah and I blew the in I blew my entire inheritance yeah on half of a Daytona car

half yeah right yeah yeah yeah yeah that's right I mean yeah I mean uh yeah is that the TRG day

he was with us what are we old good old good old Kevin yeah the story we said this is the podcast

that we can repeat it here so basically I don't remember the exact amount of money that you inherited

just over 200 grand right so when you call Kevin Buckler did you say I just have 200 grand no

uh uh no because miraculously I should be serving adobe road right no you should not

yeah yeah Devin called me

so uh the uh you know I I had done some viper racing with a guy named Jim Garrett

he had some sort of a connection with a group of Ferrari guys and uh I was going to run with a

group of Italians in a Ferrari and there were going to be five of us that was was that the

dragon speed car I have no idea yeah I think it was no idea but the deal fell apart right like in the

11th hour yep and I don't know how in the hell he heard about it or got my phone number I just

got the energizer bunny calling me on the phone going hey I heard you lost your seat uh and I

knew enough about him I said Kevin you know you you have a reputation of running one

or two cars that has a chance of winning and a bunch of other cars that pay for it

and you know I have zero interest in being in a car that's not competitive

and uh and you know the the first uh he's like oh man I got a great deal for you

uh he called me up uh and I'm not going to name names but uh he called me up and said

I you know I got you in a car with with so-and-so uh and I'm like Kevin clearly we are not

communicating right right clearly you know uh uh it's probably my that's right it's probably

my car uh it might have been yeah uh but you know I said you know I have zero interest in doing the

race uh unless I know that we'd rather not spend the money yeah right spend the money on

something that's not gonna and uh you know and and eventually he called me and said okay man I

got you in a competitive car but you have to pay for half the car yeah and uh and it was 200

grand in 2011 right for half the car and that was all of my inheritance did he know that because I

know I know Kevin if he knows you have 200 grand miraculously it's 200 grand I have no idea I don't

think he knew it okay okay you know uh yeah I mean uh yeah anyway he called me okay that was like

around when I first met you that would have been exactly when you first yeah I mean I remember

that little booth right there yeah yes we were doing the the web stream and we had the little booth

and yeah I remember like I became the delegate that went to speak at your dinner because he had too

many cars and nobody could go I'm like I'm not we somebody from the team has to go to your dinner

and the whole thing but um so from 2008 to 2010 you were racing in the Viper series correct nowhere

near as expensive as say you know Grand Emery LMS time but still it's still expensive back then

yeah I mean it's really funny uh not that funny but uh you know back then I was spending 200

grand a year 200 grand a year right club racing right and all of everybody I was racing with was

accusing me of money whipping them yeah right yeah you were the rich but that's right but my

point is like 200 000 dollars if you have a series of dealerships that aren't doing well is not

a good idea well no I did not have the money to be there right but absolutely but my question

is for Kathleen in that sense did you see the addict come out when that happened

I think I've always I mean known the addict as far as racing is concerned I mean he talks openly

and we've talked openly about you just replace one addiction with another right right so knew that

but I will say maybe not maybe at the time I don't know but I would say not total transparency

about dollars to cents sure per each year nor do you see the books with like the racing or

I mean I take care of all the home financials um no I don't I mean I can ask anything and he

will tell me and honestly a hundred percent he'll give me the honest answer but maybe I'm not asking

the right questions if you don't mind delving into this and again we don't do anything you don't

want to do but um early on in the relationship going back to even college and whatnot by time

you guys met were you completely clean oh yeah yeah yeah like 16 or something yeah I uh yeah I was sober

at uh uh you went in at 16 yeah I knew I was 16 but uh I was 17 or uh pretty sure I was 17

when I quit no I met him at 21 or right before I was 20 yeah and I remember I was like seriously

God like you're sending me a sober guy like I'm an Irish Catholic yeah I'm an Irish Catholic

so I guess that was my question how how early on in the relationship did he tell you about the

addiction problems he'd had oh from the front from the beginning very early on okay I was extremely

extremely open about it yeah you were very forward with us yeah it's not something I uh you know I

avoid talking about it well it's easy to be when you're you know at this stage in life especially

when you've got you know decades of being clean and success to show for it but it's a little

different when you're 20 and still trying to impress the girls um I feel like he's you're

a hundred percent I am who I am yeah it's it's part of my story it's a it's a it's an

important part of my story you know I think I mentioned this in the in the podcast we did before

but you know a certain part of whether it's uh my willingness to step out and take the risk in

business or on the racetrack it is about being willing to be independent uh and I think that

came from being independent at such a young age from that experience uh it kind of made me more

comfortable being independent but what you know I would say that at that point in time 0809 you

know uh everybody's trying to figure out how to expense their racing right and so as a car dealer

it's a little easier for me to sure uh to do that a lot of automotive parts have to be purchased

well you know you met Brian he was my crew chief you know uh you know he was a technician at the

Chevy store sure you know and so I just pulled him out of the shop when I wanted to go racing

as an example you know it's not it's not unusual for uh for a car dealership to buy tires

you know or a car for that matter yeah and so you know my first race car had a Venn number and

I put it in used car inventory yeah you know uh and so uh you know it uh you know it wasn't really

involved in the uh the economics of of home it was more it was more the economics of the business

copy uh when it comes to dealing with addiction um as you were saying earlier when it comes to

dealing with addiction it's even if you are if you've moved past whatever the item was you

were addicted to it's very easy to replace it with another and I would argue Ben the way you've

built the business and and to an extent the racing side you still see a lot of that very you see

a lot of huge big willingness to sort of live on the edge to make whatever it is work and and

you can trace that back to probably being a similar pattern when you were a teenager

Kathleen do you see elements of that and does that worry you oh absolutely I see elements

um but no I feel like maybe there's a like he curbs it more now like he's aware of the loss factor

I see where maybe back in the day he wasn't okay um and I think the risk is way more calculated

he's still way riskier than I would ever yeah choose to be uh but his track record has proven

that he's a good calculated risk ticker no I would say that you know I think of the old

Janice Joplin me and my Bobby McGee song that freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose

you know I have you know once on my own in treatment I've had nothing I've been completely

alone and had nothing and you know it wasn't that bad then when it fired we as a family you know

have got nothing it's kind of torn down to the core as I mentioned earlier it was some of the best

times in our marriage I you know it it wasn't that bad and so at that point in time I had a

lot of freedom to take risks because what happens if it doesn't work out you know we go right back

to where we were which wasn't that bad and so I felt like I had a lot of freedom to take the risk

whereas now I've got a lot to lose and so you you you've got to approach things differently yeah

during the early years did you see it that way um I would say that when we were

recently fired that was I mean we were definitely close but it was tough like I

I couldn't really figure out I mean there wasn't a clear path for a long for a while I mean several

months unemployed for six months um and two little kids um and no it was scary it was super

scary and I mean I I don't know I I mean I've I guess again a little bit hard to remember all of that

but at the same time I felt like we were digging deep but I knew we'd be okay like I'd go to work

he'd go to work we'd both we we could make it we had skills so we'd be fine but it might not

be the life that we thought it would be um but would be okay how do you deal with the fear of

him getting hurt racing at the beginning it was constant and prevalent and um and then you know

when I saw him like the car catch on fire and he's attached to it and he can't get out and then

he has to go back in he has come out um and multiple wrecks I I definitely I'm more concerned

like when we land at the airport and it gets in his daily driver and we drive home I'm like

that is the worst drive ever from a race like it's horrible horrible um just so I think he's safer on

the track than he is on the road wait how is he on the road horrible I mean he's talking about when

I get what you get in that mindset of being in the race of pushing it all the time and I get

home I get in the car and I'm still driving that way so he's like so he's over aggressive

and bumper riding or he's distracted or what is not even I mean well here there's not a lot of

bumpers but it's just like balls to the wall like you're just um and I was like yeah I see

that's personal that's not a race car driver that's just him I mean and I'm like I'm in the

passenger seat like you can anticipate I can't anticipate do you ever drive like when you

guys are together I mean I yeah okay yeah all right so we could fix this and then I like take

let's take my car exactly my car smoother my more of my fear is that I want him to do as well as

he I mean I want him to do well like that is that what really kills me is when I know he's

going to beat himself up that breaks my heart when he's just you know he's like I just messed

up or you know I mean man what immediately came to mind was that Le Mans loss like the Ford one

that wasn't him this year the Ford one oh the Ford with a disqualification I mean just like the

like he couldn't help the highest of highs yeah because we found out when you were home but yeah

yeah that one I think globally in the sport we all felt like everybody yeah but I so appreciate

like this the last I'm sorry the last race when you're like I wrecked twice and it was all my fault

and I've you know I like I hate that I hated that for you petite Le Mans yeah you know I've wrecked

in a race I think I've wrecked three times in the last five years yeah and they have all three been

at Rotolana and two of them were in that race yeah yeah and you know and I'm I'm gonna be driving a

Corvette next year yeah and a Corvette has gone over and above to oh right to help make this possible

for me yeah and you took them out and I took them out yeah yeah it was terrible yeah poor Tommy

yeah yeah yeah of course I didn't say this but this is never a green show so we're

I thought to myself uh you know I can't remember if it was 2018 or 2019 but Tommy took me out at

Watkins Glen one time yeah this is payback yeah had a comment had a comment this isn't gonna air

until you know a few months from now but you are currently buying a Chevrolet dealership

correct that's correct yeah so by the time this airs it should be done yeah it'll be done

you're doing your part for Chevrolet that's right you're fine you're fine this will be my third

grown Chevrolet dealership growing the brand absolutely you're okay putting it back on the

road okay Keating Chevrolet dot com right dot com dot com we we talk about um quite a few

the interviews we've done we've we've discussed with very successful racers or businessmen

actually that kind of relate the same thing that being likable can help your career quite a bit

and I always relate that you can be the fastest driver on the planet but if the spouse of the

person you're racing with doesn't want to go to dinner with you you're probably not going to

keep that opportunity what do you say to that have you I mean Ben's been with very good pros

and big teams are generally going to pick good people anyway but would you agree to that

that if Ben was driving with somebody that wouldn't talk to you at dinner or wouldn't give you

any sort of respect and just a general conversation no I would never do that I would never do that well

if he was driving with somebody that was very rude and wouldn't give you the time of day or never

speak to you at dinner wouldn't that get back to Ben well of course it would yeah I wouldn't

have realized I had that power oh okay but Ben if she said I don't like that pro driver that

you're attached to because he like or he's a partier and I don't care for his lifestyle or

whatever it is maybe he's got a good picker you're trying for top programs well they're not

yeah but you know on on on almost every on on every program I've done for the last 10 years

you know I'm picking everybody you know I and you know because I'm paying for everything

uh because this is everything just kidding because this is my recreation you know I will my number

one rule is I'm not going to drive for or with with uh and so uh I mean that's just uh that's

the number one thing and you know we have had seasons where uh you know we didn't care for

one of our co-drivers but like to your to your point if you had the choice between let's say

somebody that's the fastest guy in the planet and somebody that's just a little bit slower and the

fastest guy's a and the little tiny bit slower guy's nicer who's getting the ride

what's which series oh okay yeah yeah that's how competitive he is yeah

uh you know uh yeah uh I will say that uh I mean golly I I I prefer wick rules okay to msa rules

okay because your drive time counts more uh that's right yeah yeah uh because I mean

the way I always say it is because my drive time counts more yeah uh another way to say that

is that another way of saying the exact same thing is that the only driver that matters

is the last one in the car yeah and uh I enjoy winning uh and uh yeah sometimes you need a

in the last to be the last person in the car sure yeah sure and that's the reason I say it

yeah uh you know I was uh uh you know I get along well with Mikkel Jensen sure yeah yeah uh

he was a great teammate um uh you know he's not somebody that I'm inviting over for dinner

sure sure all right uh he's a kill uh I don't get along as well with him as I do with Jerome

Lecomo or Marco Sorensen or you know some of the other guys that I've driven with yeah but I still

have incredible relationships with yeah right but when it gets down to the end of the race

he's the guy I want in my car yeah sure uh you know uh so yeah yeah have you ever said no

to any of his wild ideas oh yeah what was the last big no I'm not talking about

like vacation plans I'm talking about like either a business idea or a racing idea

I mean I would say more so that when like you are upon a like something that you have concerns

about you will bring it to me um and we'll talk about it and I'll point out the flaws

yeah um but I can't think of like the most recent can you uh but I feel like you are like

you're such a I mean I feel like we're equal partners and you hear me yeah um and you won't

do something if I don't bless it I mean racing so much you'll say even like I'm thinking about

doing WEC how do you feel about doing I mean doing WEC again this year um because there were

there were a couple years that were rough for four years I was doing both a full season of WEC

and a full season of IMSA yeah right and it was way too much yeah because I want to do some fun

stuff and I'm like you can never do anything fun with our friends yeah because you're gone

all the time yeah right and the weekends you're back you're probably getting caught up

yeah and so and so I committed this year to doing IMSA plus Le Mans yeah right they're not doing

WEC uh and you know that was nice because the races are local you know uh there's less travel time

couple hours yeah you know uh it's it's easier but you don't like IMSA and and so you know I had

to come back this year and say hey I'm not I'm not enjoying this year yeah uh you know uh I didn't

think I would ever go back to WEC yeah but you know how do you feel about me going back to WEC

yeah right yeah please yeah yeah yeah right if she said no you wouldn't uh I wouldn't yeah uh you know

if she said no I think I would probably go full-on historic yes so I want to do

gosh yeah that's that's my next stop so on your end Kathleen obviously Ben from an early age

didn't want to work for his father um your relationship with your dad sounds like it was

a lot healthier than Ben's was I think so I mean but granted you know I guess male to male and

male to female and I was the best daughter okay yeah and so much younger and all that

that's what the girls are favorite yeah and after six they're not worried um

but uh how have you seen that how did you see the relationship change over the years

oh with this father um I mean I love Tom uh Tom and I were close I felt like Tom was a

sweetheart toward our kids um I was just a hard like what you loved about him was what

probably also drove him to take his life um but just that like he was all in on everything

he was so he was just so alive like he was 110 present and going and moving which

I had some fear for you at a point because of just you had that same drive and you found balance

where I don't know that your father had balance maybe um but you had fears in terms of you saw

how he hit a tipping point and went too far effectively and you see that same characteristic

a little bit but also just I know Tom had a bunch of different things going on I mean he had cancer

and um but I worried about I was fearful for that with our son and our daughter just

depression um but I would say when Tom was great Tom was great yeah um and when Tom

was down you just kind of I avoided him you know but he was never I never got the volatile part

that you probably got I would say that um uh you know we we've been you know I feel totally

lucky totally blessed to have you know uh many of the tools that we have in our life

uh and you know we go to a nutritionist every three weeks and I have for 16 years

and a ton of energy work uh and you know this guy is able to fix a lot of things

that are going on with me on on any given day and when he does that

my comment is man what do normal people do right yeah right what do normal people do

because if I didn't have that tool in my life right it would I mean I would be a disaster yeah

and uh I mean uh I would say that the apple probably doesn't fall very far from that tree

sure you know what I would say about my dad is that he just did not half-ass anything

he did not uh and I am that way and he didn't have the tools but he didn't have the tools

and you know and so it literally drove him mad uh and uh if I didn't have those tools that I have

then I'm I'm confident that it would drive me mad as well yeah when you're a competitive guy

when you got fired from your father there's I have no doubt they're decided he's like

I'm going to show him and I'm going to beat him oh absolutely yeah so you know I as an example

you know uh you know he believed that you could run one dealership well and make more money than

if you ran two dealerships half-assed uh and so I wanted to take what we have built and scale it

across several dealerships I wanted to grow and I wanted to buy another dealership and I was willing

to pay three four five times earnings in goodwill for one of these dealerships and he was not willing

to do that he was only willing to buy something at net asset value and you know we had this big

discussion about it and I said dad that's a thing of the past that's not happening anymore

and he got such a tickle out of that because you were so wrong that's right yeah that hang on

he went and got a recorder and recorded me saying this yeah and so yes there's some level of you

know I want to prove that this is scalable yeah uh yeah what was the phone call like

on your end oh my gosh like when we found out about his dad yeah

oh you remember where we were I mean at supper club yeah at the and we're part of

in Victoria and we were in the dining room that's right most people don't uh there you don't go out

most people entertain in their homes okay uh and so we have horrible restaurants

we have good mexican we have nailed we have like 29 mexican restaurants and that's it okay

do you need anything else yeah I'm good yeah but like when yeah but we were at a supper club

once you're 12 couples and everybody has a month and we were at the christmas supper club where

everybody's doing an ornament exchange at the breeches uh uh in springwood yeah yeah no at the

edwards edwards uh but yeah I mean everybody's doing uh you know holiday gift exchange kind of a

white elephant gift exchange deal and uh man yeah I got the call and

it's a downer for the party well and it just was compounded by like who was around and who I mean

I'm saying this was declared after the call like it wasn't like you just left the party unannounced

no I uh no we told them like we knew what happened and it was clear it had happened like

multiple family members were around that vicinity when it happened and

but what I remember the I mean like what guts me is I remember you and I being in the car here in

the driveway and I've never heard the sounds that came out of you um just breaks my heart like uh

like just a final acceptance and acknowledgement of that loss

that was rough

did you see it coming not at all no but hadn't I mean didn't we find out later that he had been

on prozac for like three days with unadministered like nobody was checking on him his I mean

now there's a there's even a movie about it you know it's now it's a it's a fairly well known fact

that these the incident of suicide happens a lot more often right after you just started taking

yeah anti-depressant yeah but his mom didn't even know that he was on it right do you remember

your last time you saw him I do uh Thanksgiving I was gonna say it was right around the

because it was December like third okay so they had been at our house for Thanksgiving

no um I think it was I think it was here we had a big Thanksgiving here and you know that was the first

you know kind of that that month I had seen him at the Houstonian

uh and then we met again like FDAF something like that yeah they always have it there and then

we met again here for Thanksgiving and it was kind of that that month was kind of the first

time we had healed uh the relationship some like in public I mean you had had those conversations

and pretend you're all good but to be around other people and do you think Ben blames himself

Ben um no I don't I mean maybe I'm naive but I felt like it was very apparent of everything

that was going on with Tom um and I feel like the conversations we had had were

transparent about their issues and his issues were far greater than our issues um and they

had made amends with that so and we had even I mean it was so difficult with his mom and

we had the their only grandchildren um and we were refusing when the relationship was bad

we were like if if you can't speak to us you cannot hang out with the grandkids like

not gonna happen um so it was rough rough rough so I feel like when they started seeing

the grandkids I mean which it wasn't that long but um then I felt like that piece had been made

and this was his own demons yeah you were raised Irish Catholic Ben was not um Ben started seeing a

medium um and you know arguably it it helped a lot yeah um how were you when you first

heard about that good I mean I I love some woo woo I mean I really do like we're we're all in

like I'm going to the mediums workshop in two weeks so you're all in on this and this is my

third workshop with her so yeah I'm all in okay I mean I believe it's but the stuff that she has

told me is there's no way anybody could know any of that okay I mean no way so you're not just

fully in because it supports Ben you're fully in because you've you've seen it now you believe

it I mean I felt like I should not go to her before because I was taking time away from people who

really needed to heal like my husband okay um but at the same time then when they were like well

just you should you could get this for another like this would benefit you for another reason

then I felt like it was very cool to connect with people who have and just to learn about

my ancestors and and my parents you know 92 and 93 that so just kind of like there's stuff that crosses

over um even in present day they're still alive okay woo woo yeah woo woo that's a lot of it's good

woo woo yeah so knowing everything you know about Ben everything you know about the family um

what scares you about the future oh I just thought I'm not tapping in and doing enough

I mean I think I feel like truly I feel like at the point I mean like we have such an incredible

I feel so blessed with the relationship we have with our kids the fact that like I'm going to

go to New York with my daughter next weekend we're going to go see our son in DC the next weekend

they want to be here I think they want to hang out with us

I mean to you know in some like some capacity yeah to an extent um but I often just feel like

I mean we there's lots of philanthropic things that we are having the works and I just feel like

you know God has a plan for us um and what are we not doing that we should be doing and

what can I do that I want to do okay so your fear is about the good that you can put out

back to the universe not about what's happening here yeah I would say that but maybe I'm the

the foam on the top of what you mean Ben we'll be with you obviously solo but what what scares you

uh

you know I

you know I said it earlier I would say that you know we have been it's been an unbelievable ride

you know uh it's it's incredible to think about where we are now compared to where we were uh

you know just not that long ago I mean 15 years ago say you know uh uh and it's just it's so so

different so uh unbelievable uh but uh you know freedom is another word for nothing left to lose

which means I don't have a whole lot of freedom you know on the on on the surface

I would say that uh you know our success buys us a lot of freedom to be able to do what we want to

do yeah but it also means that you've got more to lose uh and so uh you know I know

through all the seasons in my life uh that uh you know it's not always going to be like this

you know uh you know uh you know and we've been through this I expect to be you know I expect

that this is you know not even halfway yet uh and that's hard to imagine you know all the different

cycles and seasons that are going to come yeah and uh you know um

I hope and pray that we are ready to weather whatever that next storm happens to be

yeah but I would say that is probably you know I'm not yeah I'm not fearful like my dad was

fearful my dad was a doomsday prepper yeah sure you know we have the Mormon book of like storage

of all the water yeah and we stored it we stored it we you know he had you know 15 years of food and

storage yeah right you know uh machine guns and you know whatever you know uh he was really

should have that now but that that fear kept him from growth that's right and and you obviously

early on in the business did not have that fear that's right now you do so yeah but you know I you

know I was going to say it's fear of the unknown but it's not really the unknown it's the uh uh it's

the fear that we've had a lot to lose now and and uh you know uh uh you know I don't want to lose it

yeah this is this is projecting but I just sort of one of this rings true my biggest fear is myself

um that like let's take our show for example we're in a decent place we've been in a decent

place for a couple of years I'm terrified I'm gonna fuck it up um I feel like with what you've built

and where you've come from over the last 20 years I feel like this is a similar fear for you yeah

yeah I mean you know uh so I would say yes there is uh there is a chance that I could

fuck it up yeah uh uh you know uh I also think there is a chance that you know uh I'll say the

COVID years yeah are the best years in the right in the history of the of the car dealer world

we interviewed one of your dealer managers and he's like things are going great

there's like oh yeah it is uh it's uh it was ridiculously silly good

yeah uh you know if that pendulum is going to swing the other way right yeah yeah yeah and

you know uh you know right now I can say yeah we've got 30 dealerships uh you know I hope

that we are prepared enough that I don't say I'm yeah I own 30 boat anchors sure right exactly

yeah uh but yeah I I feel fairly well prepared but you're not afraid of your own decisions

no yeah yeah but your your decisions are what got you here that's right yeah that's right I don't

I don't like with our show I don't feel that way I feel because of what we've done we've got where

we have yeah so if we continue to act the same way and make the right decisions which we have so

far we'll continue on which I think kind of how you would be I think so and I feel like with

your dad always ran lean and so you learned a lot of that now it didn't work at the beginning right

so you have and you went through some times of I mean you know sometimes of hardship where

you kind of adapted quickly like you know you can't run the same thing all the time you have to

keep checking the market yep yep markets have our own you know I I uh the analogy I used to

always give is that uh you know I don't want to I don't want to be the the horse and buggy salesman

of 1910 right yeah yeah yeah oh you gotta this is going to be it trying through yeah yeah yeah but

you know I mean I I could sell everything now and you know we we could you know easily retire

happily yeah but yeah I don't know there's no way you could say title but uh it that doesn't sound

like any fun to me yeah you want to challenge and I'm very comfortable spending golden eggs

I'm very comfortable going out and playing in ways that I would not be comfortable doing right

if I sold the golden goose sure sure yeah uh it then it's like you know this gotta last for a really

long time yeah yeah correct uh yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's why next year you're going all crypto

it's a way to future yeah yeah Kathleen what's the one thing you were worried you were gonna ask about

golly I don't know I don't know that golly yeah that's a girl at the front row of the lecture

home yeah yeah I don't know that I have one um I mean I feel like when I was saying that about Ben

like he is what you see is what you get is I'm the exact same way I'm like what you see is what you

get and so I think if you ask me anything I'd probably answer it and I'd probably be afraid of that

why aren't the kids racing I tried well the track shut down I mean when we got them

just going oh Texas world I got Carter on a uh a quarter mile dirt track and then we bought Kate

her her pink car bought one for daughter yeah uh and uh yeah the the local dirt track shut down

but Carter was the slowest yeah I mean like so he's he's at Georgetown yeah yeah he was like that

Kate would have been a hellion yeah I think she could have done it yeah she would have been good

but I mean I've tried to get them all interested yeah try to get her interested try to get the kids

interested like there can only be one of us right but I think it is so my family does not enjoy

playing board games with me either I can imagine that yeah yeah I love playing games nobody wants

to play games I know that you do you might just like crushing people he loves to win yes exactly yes

and I think that is also why they didn't want to go racing yeah yeah got it it's like that's his thing

yeah I'm gonna go find my thing yeah yeah smart children I know they're dead if you could describe

Ben Keating in one word what would it be

I'd say strength um and I for me that means strong character strong faith

strong direction strong you know it just it goes in so many directions like he is he is the compass

and nothing is halfway there's only one answer for this Ben but I'm going to ask you anyway

if Kathleen wasn't in your life would you've been anywhere close to where you are now oh man

no I I mean it's a it's a it's a big deal uh you know I uh you know I've said a bunch of

times at a bunch of different you know partner meetings that you know uh all of my partners

are happen to be men and they happen to be married to women uh and you know uh behind each

of those strong men is a stronger woman and uh that is maybe more true in my case than any of

their uh cases uh you know it's uh I think it's impossible to do uh what we have done solo uh I

mean I can't imagine the train wreck I would be uh there's no way I would be here uh it would be

a disaster when uh I mean you've been together since effectively you're 20 yeah um when you took

your big swings and big risks and knowing you're putting everything on the line are you more

afraid of losing it for you or losing it for her oh for her yeah uh no doubt uh because yeah I've

already said it you know and when I'm taking those big swings uh I don't I don't have fear

of losing it for me uh yeah I've had nothing and it's okay right yeah uh you know uh I'll try something

else uh but you know when you've got a family and you got two young kids right it's a little different

yeah well you guys have been nothing gracious uh first being in this house uh Kathleen what would

the the what were you hoping people would get out of this experience um I guess I would just say

like seeing some humility to Ben seeing that behind the scenes he is a devoted father he invests in his

employees um I mean not only in the relationships like I mean I would say when we were talking about

like outside activities he doesn't have a lot of I mean at the beginning didn't have a lot of

friends outside because he was working all the time um but he invests in those relationships

that are important to him um he cares for our children and you know takes time like time he

doesn't have to devote to them um and I would say he is just always a listener like he wants to be

better he's always trying to so I don't know if that's what you said the takeaway from this

I just want people to realize that he's a human being that while he's aggressive and

super driven he's still get sad when he doesn't do well you know and he really wants to do well

and he's trying hard what's your favorite men eating quirk oh what's the thing no one knows about

like the way he drinks out of a can what it's ridiculous just the presence because he does drink

out of a can or the way you know it's like it's like this weird thing it's like you don't yeah I mean

if you drink like this you and I have your nose gets in the way you and I have the same nose I

do the same thing off the side I do I do the same thing I mean that's the one that comes to mind

yeah that's so weird yeah that's not weird from the get go it's weird that's right problem

solving all the time I do the same thing I have a big nose yeah okay yeah I'd say well

the Keating's got the check yeah yeah yeah yes we do cheers cheers thank you

hmm

got the feeling in your bones make you feel it right at home

honey does it does it well keep me dancing till I'm dead

oh

I ain't looking

ain't looking back

Let's get one

Yeah

Deep inside the depths of stone

Voice will echo, need no phone

Rule by the laws above

Nature shows me, makes me taught

I could climb this mountain now

Rise above the clouds you see

Where all the falls are kept strong

Yeah, but well, I'm doing the wrong

Cause I ain't lookin, ain't lookin back

I ain't lookin, ain't lookin back

I ain't lookin, yeah

You're looking back, you're looking back

Ep.298 – Dinner(s) with Ben Keating: Kathleen Keating

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