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Ep.317 – Mike Lanigan
About this episode
Mike Lanigan, co-owner of the Ray Hall Letterman Lanigan IndyCar team, shares his journey from a successful business career to motorsports. He recounts fascinating stories about his family’s crane business, his friendship with NFL legend Walter Payton, and his partnership with Paul Newman in racing. The conversation delves into the challenges and triumphs of owning a racing team, the importance of relationships in business, and the unique culture of motorsports. Lanigan's insights on leadership and legacy provide a compelling look into the intersection of business and racing.
Topics:
Budweiser cars
Buick Stock Block engines
Cleveland Grand Prix
engine blew
Indy 500
left cockpit
right side pod
three-quarter cam
Known today as the “the third L” in RLL Racing, Mike Lanigan’s enthusiasm and contribution to the sport has amassed nearly four decades. A businessman-first, his family-owned MiJack Products completely revolutionized the transportation and shipping industry over the last seven decades, eventually expanding out to a family of businesses that are all now held under […]
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Dodge Charger
"...1969 charger owner. And not Paul Newman."
The Dodge Charger is a famous car from the late 1960s, known for being fast and stylish. The 1969 version is especially popular among car enthusiasts.
The Dodge Charger is a classic American muscle car known for its powerful performance and distinctive styling. The 1969 model is particularly iconic, often associated with its role in pop culture and motorsports.
Car
Dodge R/T
"My older brother, Jack, had bought a 69 Dodge RT. I had, you know, literally, I worked every day in high school because we had half days."
The Dodge R/T is a special version of some Dodge cars that are designed for better performance and speed. The 1969 model is especially famous for its powerful engine and sporty look.
The Dodge R/T, or Road/Track, is a performance-oriented trim that was available on various Dodge models, particularly known for its muscle car variants in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The 1969 Dodge R/T models, such as the Charger and Coronet, featured powerful engines and sporty styling, making them popular among car enthusiasts.
Part
three-quarter cam
"the first day he got it, he took the engine out, put a three-quarter cam in it."
A three-quarter cam is a part of the engine that helps it perform better. It makes the car faster and more powerful while still being easy to drive.
A three-quarter cam refers to a type of camshaft that provides a balance between performance and drivability. It typically offers improved power and torque over stock camshafts without sacrificing too much low-end performance.
Concept
Indy 500
"Well, I've been to 51 Indy 500 for a while. Jesus Christ. Never miss one."
The Indy 500 is a famous car race that happens every year in Indianapolis. It's known for being very long, covering 500 miles, and attracts many fans and top drivers.
The Indy 500, or Indianapolis 500, is one of the most prestigious automobile races in the world, held annually at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It features open-wheel cars competing over 500 miles, making it a key event in the IndyCar Series.
Term
Buick Stock Block engines
"They had the Buick Stock Block engines."
Buick Stock Block engines are the regular engines that come in Buick cars, especially used in racing. They can be upgraded to make them faster while keeping their original design.
Buick Stock Block engines refer to the standard engine configurations used in Buick vehicles, often in racing contexts. These engines are typically modified for performance while retaining the basic design and specifications of the original factory engines.
Term
right side pod
"...I paid $35,000 for the right side pod and the left cockpit. And the car lasted about eight laps to the engine blue."
The right side pod is a part of a race car that helps keep the engine cool and improves how the car moves through the air. It's important for how well the car performs on the track.
The right side pod is a component of a race car that houses various systems, including the cooling system and aerodynamics features. It plays a crucial role in the car's performance and handling.
Term
left cockpit
"...I paid $35,000 for the right side pod and the left cockpit. And the car lasted about eight laps to the engine blue."
The left cockpit is where the driver sits and controls the car. It contains the steering wheel, pedals, and other important controls needed to drive.
The left cockpit refers to the driver's area of the race car, where controls and instrumentation are located. It is essential for the driver to operate the vehicle effectively during a race.
Term
engine blew
"...And the car lasted about eight laps to the engine blue."
When someone says the engine blew, it means the engine broke down badly and can't work anymore. This can happen for several reasons, like getting too hot or not having enough oil.
When an engine 'blows,' it typically means that it has suffered a catastrophic failure, often due to overheating, lack of lubrication, or mechanical failure. This results in the engine being inoperable.
Concept
Cleveland Grand Prix
"I promoted Cleveland Grand Prix in Houston. So to this day, I'm sure you spend a lot of time on Reddit. But in the grand scheme of motorsport nostalgia, there are a ton of fans who miss the Cleveland Grand Prix."
The Cleveland Grand Prix was a car racing event held in Cleveland, Ohio. It was popular among racing fans and featured cars racing on city streets.
The Cleveland Grand Prix was a notable motorsport event that took place in Cleveland, Ohio, featuring various racing series. It was known for its unique street circuit and attracted many fans during its run.
Car
Trans Am
"He started driving with Trans Am. It was pretty good."
The Trans Am is a sporty car made by Pontiac, famous for its powerful engine and cool design. It's often seen in movies and racing events.
The Pontiac Trans Am is a classic American muscle car known for its performance and distinctive styling. It gained popularity in the 1970s and 1980s, often associated with pop culture and racing.
Concept
Budweiser cars
"We drove with Scott Sharp in the Budweiser cars."
Budweiser cars are race cars that have Budweiser as a sponsor. This means the beer brand helps pay for the car and gets its name seen during races.
The term 'Budweiser cars' refers to race cars sponsored by the Budweiser beer brand, commonly seen in various racing series. Sponsorships like these are crucial for funding teams and gaining visibility.
Car
R2
"So we did lunch today with Tony Pedragon, two-time funny car champion at NHRA. And his question for you was, what was your first car? 69 badge R2."
The R2 is a type of Dodge car from 1969. Dodge is a car brand that makes sporty and powerful vehicles, and the R2 is one of their models from that time.
The R2 is a variant of the Dodge vehicle, specifically referring to a model from 1969. Dodge is known for producing a range of performance-oriented cars, especially during the muscle car era.
Select text to request an explanation
So Walter Payton's business partner.
1969 charger owner.
And not Paul Newman.
No.
Mike Lanigan.
If you could describe this dinner you just had in one word,
what would it be?
Winning.
Oh, yeah.
Perfect.
So we're all winners here, right?
Yes.
All right, yes.
Mike Lanigan approved.
And now for Dinner with Racers, presented by Cotton & Altire.
With your hosts, Ryan Eversley and Sean Heckman.
Please hold the radio sound.
Please hold.
The driver is very angry.
This is the sound of the driver on the radio during a race.
What do you think?
Go ahead.
Engine on.
And welcome to Dinner with Racers.
I'm Sean Heckman.
I'm Ryan Eversley.
And we are sitting in Johnny Rockets in Hollywood, California.
That's right.
Very peculiar reason as to why we're here, but we're not
going to talk about that.
No, we're not.
But you know who we are going to talk about?
Our 10 years of doing DWR show.
10 years.
That's right.
And in our 10th year, we did a lot of work this season.
We went and we met with people from all walks of motorsports life,
including this team owner, Mike Lanigan, who owns an IndyCar team alongside
Ray Hall Letterman and is a character that we've actually had a little bit
of a fandom for that we've been trying to have on the show for a while now.
Exactly.
So if you're an IndyCar fan and you're familiar with RLL Racing that stands
for Ray Hall Letterman Lanigan, well, Lanigan, Mike Lanigan is the third L in RLL.
And Ryan and I were out there for the IMSA weekend.
Ryan racing me doing the old strategy business that I do.
And we're like, hey, let's stay back for a week.
Get a few cool figures.
And we called our dear, dear friend, Kathy Lauderback, one of our favorite
PR people in the sport, said, hey, would Mike Lanigan be around?
And he just for us came out for dinner.
And we had 90 minutes and that was all we were getting.
Yeah.
And it was one of those things where it's like, well, we suspect his time.
He's obviously a very busy guy.
He's got real business.
And the interview only scratches the surface of those real business that he's involved with.
Exactly.
And so when we say the real business, he is a team owner, but he's also a team owner
because he's been very successful in other businesses.
So if you're a racing fan, you've probably seen those yellow and red MyJack IndyCars
over the years.
Well, that's Mike Lanigan.
He is most known for MyJack, which is a rubber tire gantry crane company.
Ryan, I bet you now you're an expert, by the way.
Oh, right.
Rubber tire gantry crane.
Yeah.
I learned about how his dad came up with it and everything.
Exactly.
And yeah, I'm an expert.
And it's now part of a holding company called the Lanco Group of Companies,
and Lanco, the most known from MyJack, but they're all over the place.
They've got entertainment businesses and other construction businesses,
including a former business partnered with a wildly, wildly successful NFL Hall of Famer.
And some of those stories you're going to hear about include that NFL legend, Walter Payton.
You're also going to hear stories about, well, Paul Newman.
And of course, the legendary Justin Wilson.
So Mike Lanigan, full of stories.
And also, by the way, we've talked about this on our Patreon,
which we'll advertise in a second.
But he ordered his steak well done and his coffee black,
and it was the most perfect way you could expect the guy from Chicago to order.
But that's because we're at St. Elmo's Steakhouse,
which is a staple of Indianapolis.
We don't necessarily go there as often because we're on a budget,
but a very, very nice steakhouse.
If you're ever in Indianapolis, especially on a pre-race weekend,
it is the place to go for good steak.
And that story I just told about how he ate,
you can find that on our Patreon, among many other stories.
What is that Patreon, Ryan?
Yeah, Patreon is a thing we're doing with our dinner club.
It's at patreon.com forward slash DWR show,
where we're basically giving the fans a little bit more behind the scenes access.
You know, we're here in year 10 of the show.
So we've got a lot of funny behind the scenes stories.
We've got a little more insight into some podcasts,
including things that didn't make the cut with the edit.
But then we also are doing race reviews, race previews,
and just kind of answering fan questions along the way.
And honestly, it's been a lot of fun.
Yeah, as well as, of course, letting fans ask questions.
Some of our guests, because they know in advance who it's going to be.
And that includes a couple of things here from my clan again.
So the Patreon is nice, but you know what's even better, Ryan?
Haven't Shane van Gisburg and drive us?
Yes, that's one of those things.
Shane, what do you have to say?
I wouldn't be here if Justin didn't make me.
Neat, Shane, but also we have sponsors.
That's right. We have God Metal Tire.
The smart choice.
In the tires.
Hashtag dinner with Conti.
That's right.
Continental is really tracking what we do through how we click on links
that they've provided us and how we use that hashtag dinner with Conti
on social media, particularly Instagram, by the way.
So if you go to dinnerwithracers.com or our Instagram,
you'll see we've posted links that basically send you to Continental's
website to check out everything they offer.
But that specific clicking of that specific link tells Continental
that we sent you there and that goes a long way to the credibility
that we ask for to continue the sponsorship,
as well as, of course, the hashtag dinner with Conti.
So if you post anything,
if you see anything that makes you want to buy a tire,
you buy a tire, you want to show it,
you just think of something that reminds you of us.
Hashtag dinner with Conti is what gets us sort of the points
with Continental. Keep this show going.
Now take it away, Mike Lanigan.
Meow.
All right. We're going to start in five, four, three, two.
All right. Well, let's waste no time. Let's put these on.
Yeah.
And Miss Kathy, let's have you count to ten as well.
Speak.
Well, somehow you find a way.
That's not true. Yeah, you do speak sometimes.
You're a very rare example in our show of someone that we allow
that's an outsider to be a part, not an outsider,
but not the guest.
And because she's always been helpful.
Yeah.
Like every, she's like, ask about this.
Money.
You know?
Like knows the little tidbits.
Yeah.
Kathy has a lifetime invite.
Sometimes with PR people, we don't want them to come
because they just sort of can drag the mood down.
But Kathy makes things better.
And so she's, she's a top five.
Yeah. No question.
Yeah.
So actually I am curious about this.
How long have you two known each other?
Newman-Hoss Lanigan days.
Right. Right.
That's what I thought.
Well, four?
Well, four, I would say.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, four.
20 years.
What was your first impression of Mike?
A big fat old guy.
No.
This guy means business.
This guy can make stuff happen.
Yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
So I know you got the whole spiel.
Obviously you're a huge podcast fan.
You heard every episode, I'm guessing.
You can lie.
Oh, I love this show.
I love it.
You got it.
I can't wait yet.
So you normally, you live out in Illinois right now,
but you're in town for, isn't it an event?
Yeah.
I've been in town for a crane convention.
Oh, okay.
Interesting.
So this is for the day job.
Well, yeah.
I'll be here today and tomorrow.
Gotcha.
So you're born and bred Chicago guy.
Is that correct?
Born and bred in Chicago.
Little town in Dalton, Illinois.
South suburb.
And then we actually moved down here in 74.
Okay.
Started a company for my dad in 74.
Which one was that?
A company called My Jack.
Okay.
For sure.
Yeah.
And my wife was the secretary.
And I was the sales guy and the service guy for a crane
distribution company.
And then I moved back to Chicago in 1980.
And we're still down here right now.
Out in Lebanon.
When you moved back to Chicago, was that like more work
responsibility or?
Yeah.
Again, actually I started making sales calls at 19 years old
and commuting back and forth.
And then in 74 I got married and moved down to Indianapolis.
Lived off of 56 in Georgetown in an apartment complex.
And when I moved back in 1980, we had a facility in
Indy, Evansville and Fort Wayne.
So it was a promotion going back to Chicago.
Did you go to school for this stuff?
I know it's a family business, but did you do anything to
kind of get more integrated to it?
No.
I mean, I'm a solid C high school graduate.
And I may be exaggerating with that.
But I started working in high school quite frankly.
So with my Jack, so your father Jack senior, right?
Yes.
What he went by.
Did my Jack start as his business and then you started a
new division of it or was he, because he started as an
electrician from the war, from what I understood?
My dad was a lineman from city Chicago.
Okay.
And I started my Jack in 1967 out of the basement in
Dalton, Illinois.
Wow.
And then.
And that was the name my Jack comes from?
Yeah, two sons at a time.
And Mike and Jack.
Yeah.
And you're brother Jack junior basically.
Jack junior?
Yeah.
Jack junior, yeah.
What's interesting to me is that I've known the my Jack
brand since I was a kid, because I grew up an IndyCar fan,
but I had no idea what it was, what it stood for, or that it
was even related to you as you moved into like the Leningen
Letterman-Rayhall stuff.
So it's neat to find out because I didn't know that's why
the name was there.
I thought it was like maybe they make Jacks.
You know, it's just one of those things.
We actually started out in the gantry crane business in
1967.
And today we have about 18 different entities now from
manufacturing, distribution, technologies with
manufacturing facilities over the world right now.
Within my Jack or within the Landco?
Within the Landco.
Kind of organization, yeah.
So your father Jack senior effectively starts my Jack.
Was it always in sort of the gantry crane business when he
got going?
It started out that way and then it evolved into
construction equipment, which is what I got involved with,
which down here in Indianapolis and from there it evolved
into being from a distribution, distributing cranes to
manufacturing cranes, then involved in other entities.
Right.
So basically in 73 is when you sort of took it and ran with
it from what I understand.
73 is when I started the company down here.
Yeah, right.
Was it a different division from what your dad was doing,
like a different concept?
No, it actually was a new concept.
Yeah, new concept.
So we were basically representing forklift company,
area work platform company and a small crane company.
Right.
Okay.
So I live in Pasadena.
I spend a lot of time down by like the LA port and the
Long Beach port of rubber tire gantry crane.
Explain that to somebody who doesn't know what that is.
Rubber tire gantry crane in our world lifts up containers
and trailers in the ports and in the railroads.
Okay.
Like big, big stuff.
Yeah, big stuff.
And the rubber tire makes them mobile?
Yeah.
You can actually drive it like a car.
Okay.
Not as fast.
Yeah, sure.
Have you ever driven one?
Yeah.
Oh wow.
Is it just insane how much power that thing has?
Yeah.
I mean, I tell people I'm not worried about hitting the
wall.
I'm worried about going through the wall.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
These machines, like in the port of Long Beach, you
talk a lot.
Yeah, that's right.
We're probably 70 feet wide and 90 feet high.
Right.
And they stack 40 foot containers, five and six high.
Yeah.
And these are all my jack cranes.
They're not all my, I wish they were all my jack cranes.
Right, right, right.
We'd have more indy cars out there.
Yeah.
But in the railroad business, we're for railroad intermodal
yards, we probably have about an 80% market share.
So everything, every container trailer that has been
picked up in the United States has been picked up by
my jack crane.
That's amazing.
And is that where the Illinois base kind of comes from?
Is all the stock yards out here?
Well, they're everywhere.
Yeah, sure.
I mean, you've got three or four big ones in Los Angeles.
You got them in every major city.
Intermodal, they call them intermodal yards.
Because at one time we used to operate them too on a
turnkey basis.
Yeah.
We since sold that company, but it's still the leader
in lift equipment for the railroad, it's quite far.
That's the my jack crane.
Yeah, yeah.
So you said your dad started this kind of in the basement,
right?
Yes.
What was he doing prior to that?
He was a lineman for the city of Chicago.
Okay, so where does the idea to go with these massive
cranes come from?
Well, back then in the early 60s, intermodalism, which is
the container and trailer on a flat car, they used to use
what they call a circus route, circus ramps.
They back them up like a circus.
Sure.
Yeah.
Just to load the elephants in.
And he had the idea of taking a gantry crane and putting
a grappler on it to pick it up and set them up, which would
give you a 500% efficiency.
And then when that happened is when intermodalism started
getting very popular.
So he really invented intermodalism.
Wow.
Okay.
So the concept of the gantry crane with the tires didn't
exist before you had it.
Exactly.
Oh, God.
Okay.
So I mean, I'm not trying to be dramatic, but your family
changed the world.
Like the amount of product you can move and ship that
quickly.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
Well, you know, my father was a depression baby born in
27.
His parents both came over to boat in Ireland.
He would have 39 cents to build together and he had a drive
to be successful.
And he was constantly trying to invent something that would
change, that makes it get success for his family.
What did he do in the service?
He was on a minesweeper.
Oh, good God.
He was a minesweeper in World War II.
He was the first Americans in the Nagasaki after they
dropped the bomb.
He, in his own words, he says they were on a minesweeper
and they were told they were the closest ship minesweeper
to Nagasaki.
And they want them to go in and into the bay of Nagasaki
and sweep the mines out, then go out 20 miles because it's
going to be a tidal wave.
So they did that, took the mines out, went out 20 miles
and there was a tidal wave where they dropped the bomb.
Then two weeks later, because they were the closest ship to
the town of the city of Nagasaki, they want them to go in
and check the damage.
They didn't know what the damage would be.
So he, on the minesweeper, he went out, the captain let
everybody out to go see the damage.
And my dad got sick after an hour and a half of what he saw.
Yeah, of course.
And his three buddies who was out there for eight hours,
they both didn't make their 30th birthday because they didn't
know what radiation was.
Oh, of course, yeah.
No gas masks.
So that stayed with him for a long time.
Yeah, yeah.
Was there any interest on his end in automotive stuff at all?
No.
Okay.
No.
So where does that come in for you?
Well, I was always a gear hood.
My older brother, Jack, had bought a 69 Dodge RT.
I had, you know, literally, I worked every day in high school
because we had half days.
I went to a school called Thornridge High School.
They had 1100 kids in school.
So they had split shifts.
So after my freshman year, I basically worked every day
because I could put five or six hours in.
And I worked Saturdays and Sundays.
And my brother bought a brand new 69 Dodge RT
from Benton Housing Motors out of Tinley Park.
And the first day he got it, he took the engine out,
put a three-quarter cam in it.
And he was definitely a gear hood.
My father was very proud of him when he did that to this brand
new car.
Just seeing that he had that kind of ingenuity.
Yeah.
And he got married a year and a half later
after he bought the car.
And he was living in an apartment.
And he didn't want it.
He didn't have a garage to put it in.
So he sold it to me when I was a sophomore.
So I was a big shot.
Yeah, man, you're the coolest kid on school.
Yeah.
He said, here's the payment book.
I said, I'm in.
Sign me up.
But that was the beginning of me being in the race.
The eviction started.
Was your dad a tough guy, given all the background that he had?
No.
I mean, he gave us enough rope to choke ourselves, quite frankly.
Sure.
But, you know, I'm one of four boys.
We all had a lot of respect for my father.
And my father was always there for us.
And I would say I had a normal childhood, you know.
But he taught us how to work hard.
And then to treat people with respect.
And he did a hell of a job with doing it, too.
When you start coming to Indianapolis for work,
are you immediately trying to get to the speedway to go be a fan?
Had you been before?
I moved out of here.
I moved out here full-time, October of 74.
Like I said, my wife and I moved into an apartment
about 56th in Georgetown.
And there was a little balcony.
I was too busy trying to start a business, frankly.
You know, I mean, it was the middle of a recession.
And it was a challenge.
But we got through it.
But we had a little balcony in this apartment.
And I knew Indy was there.
I used to listen to the 500 on the radio as a kid.
But I wasn't that fascinated about it.
I see.
So you loved cars, but the racing bug
hadn't quite been used in your teenage years.
The wind was blown the right way one day out of Saturday.
I think it was pole day.
Yeah.
And I'm hearing the boom, boom, boom.
So I got to check it out.
Then I checked it out the next day in the message system, you know.
But that's when I really caught the bug.
Yeah.
So from that moment when you went and saw the event,
how long did it take before you really got involved?
Well, I've been to 51 Indy 500 for a while.
Jesus Christ.
Never miss one.
Yeah.
In 92, Dale Coyne had a guy that came up
and wanted to know if I wanted to speak.
Well, first of all,
I was going to say, did you already know Dale?
I met Dale in 92.
OK.
But previous to that, when me and my brother Jack
went to our first 500, I think it's 74, 75 maybe.
At this point, just starting the business.
So no, not sponsorship, not a disadvantage.
I was literally a telephone on a tree.
Yeah, right.
Literally.
Literally.
You know, just, we were dreamers.
And I'll never forget, 75, 76, 77,
they had what they called the Indian Equipment Distributors
Day at the Races.
INB, Indian National Bank put it on.
It was a day that they'd have a luncheon at the Speedway Hotel.
And then they'd let you go to their suite and turn two
for an hour or two.
And then they gave you a tour of the garages.
And there was something I looked forward to every year.
But I had signed up for a suite in 75.
It was a 20-year wait.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And thinking we couldn't, if they called me the next day,
we couldn't go forward.
So I said, well, I got nothing to do.
So you invested in your future, basically,
because in 20 years we'll be able to afford it.
Well, that was, you know, if your crane sales were like me,
you're always optimistic, right?
So they called me in, I think, 91 and said that they were building
the tower suites coming out of turn four.
17 years later.
17 years later.
Holy crap.
And I think the suite was 50,000 books.
And, you know, back then I could buy a million dollars
with the cranes without checking with my dad.
But if I wanted to spend something that was out of the normal.
Yeah, the operational budget.
Yeah.
I mean, it was a challenge.
But what I was sold on, quite frankly, is, you know,
during the week, bring a customer out, you know,
a trunkful of beer and spend the afternoon watching practice,
you know, and back then they'd have 25,000, 30,000 people
for practice, you know, and I recognized the relationships
that you can build up by spending half a day or a day
with a customer and talk about everything about business.
You know, in our world, people buy from people.
And if I like you and I could trust you, I'll figure out a way
out of the business with you.
Because we sell capital equipment and it worked.
So if that $50,000 suite can build a relationship with somebody
that you can sell millions of dollars in cranes,
it makes total sense.
And that's what sold my dad.
Okay.
And, you know, back when we, I think we moved into the suite in 92.
And we would run 150 people a day every day practice.
And of course, the weekends, everything.
And spent a lot of money on booze.
But we built a tremendous amount of respect and enthusiasm
from our customers, employees, potential customers.
And that's what really got me involved with the other types
of areas of raising that I've been involved with over the years.
Yeah.
I would guess that based on previous to this,
you've been every year as a fan, right?
So you're enjoying the event to the point where you probably
know the players, know what's going on.
And purely on what I've seen your involvement is now,
you were probably the guy that's like,
have you seen what's going on out here?
You got to watch this guy.
You got to watch that guy.
And if you're a potential customer to work with you guys,
they're seeing you get excited about it.
And that can make them more attracted to you.
Well, I think, you know, one thing I tell people is number one,
none of my competition have their customers thinking about
Shadda Sunday.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great, yep.
And we bring, we literally bring our customers into the locker room
of the Yankee Stadium.
You know, we do the tours.
We do the drivers and everything else.
And it's amazing.
The hardest job we have over the years is to get them to the track.
Just getting them sold in there.
Once you get them out there.
Yeah.
And if I've been asked once, I've been asked a thousand times,
how can I be invited back?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And my answer is, there's one sure way.
And, you know, we want them to bring their wives, their kids.
And, you know, if you make the customer look good in front of his family.
Yeah.
For sure.
You know, the rest of the system.
There's a big lesson in that.
Yeah.
There is.
I mean, you know, it's not a, it's not a cheap date, but,
but it's well worth the effort.
And again, relationships, relationships, relationships, relationships.
And in our world, it works very well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think we have a lot of young drivers that listen to this show.
And one of the common, very common takeaways is that being likeable is a big part of it.
And the other big common takeaway is like a two, you know,
and how you respect it amongst those people.
And like if you're doing all these kind of work relationship events,
that's just making you a better attraction than the guy that doesn't do that stuff,
that also sells cranes.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
But I mean, you know, our sport is probably one of the most unique sports where the best
athletes don't necessarily get the best rights.
You know?
I mean, you got to be as good on the track as you are off the track as far as on the track.
You know, I've seen a number of guys that really had a tremendous amount of talent,
but, you know, the funding wasn't there for them.
I mean, everybody's been through that, I'm sure.
But you really got to be a special animal to pursue racing careers.
And, you know, it's quite remarkable.
Do you think there's any sort of similarities between what race car drivers try to do with
getting jobs like your dad might have gone through starting that company from the ground
up?
Because there's a lot of hope that it works, but no guarantee.
My dad always said, you know, I started out with nothing, I could end up with nothing.
That's what made him dangerous, quite frankly.
And, you know, I believe if a young man wants to be a driver and he doesn't have responsibilities
to his family, or if he has kids or a wife, that's a whole different scenario because
there could be some hungry days, you know.
But, you know, I tell young people, pursue your dream while you're still single, or
you have the wherewithal, and go for it.
Because once you start a family with everything else, it's a whole different body.
Can't be selfish anymore.
You have to think about that.
Well, it's not necessarily being selfish, but it's a responsibility.
Yeah, it's a responsibility.
So, a 17-year waitlist is what it took to finally get you involved in the sport.
16 years in the snake pit.
And I was pretty...
How were you at the snake pit?
I was pretty good at it.
Were you good at it?
You're a pro?
I was pretty good at it.
Season pro?
Okay.
You go back now?
I see...
No.
Okay.
Okay.
I've seen things that you wouldn't believe.
Yeah.
So, 91, you're now a sweet member.
I think it was 92.
Okay.
Okay.
And then Dale Coyne shows up in the picture somehow.
Dale had a sponsor get her come up to my suite.
And he had a kid by the name of Eric Baschler.
Yep.
Conquest racing?
Conquest racing.
A kid.
No.
My Jack Conquest racing.
I'm so sorry.
Get it right now.
Yes.
Absolutely.
I got the scars to prove it.
I earned that.
Same thing with Newman House.
It's not Newman House.
It's Newman House landing it.
But it's neither here nor there.
That's all history.
But basically, 33 years ago, this gorgeous Frenchman comes up to you.
Racecar driver.
Racecar driver.
Yeah.
This gorgeous French racecar driver named Eric Baschler.
I wouldn't call him gorgeous.
I'm calling him gorgeous.
But anyway.
I'm sorry to have him.
He's the boss.
But he didn't come up.
It was Dale had some free agent come up.
Okay.
And he had qualified.
They had the Buick Stock Block engines.
Yeah.
So they were fast for a couple of laps.
But that was about it.
And I worked out a deal with him.
It was really unique.
He had already qualified.
I think he qualified 21-22, which is pretty good for Dale.
And I'm an Eric Baschler.
Nice young man, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I paid $35,000 for the right side pod and the left cockpit.
And the car lasted about eight laps to the engine blue.
Expensive eight laps.
Right.
But that's when it really got hooked into me about sponsoring a car.
Yeah.
That's when I learned a little bit about people.
Your customers rooting for your car and the rest of the system.
Did that require going through your dad as well?
Or just a suite?
That one.
He had enough faith in me for me to pull the trigger.
Okay.
Got you.
Yeah.
It's going to be 4,000 a lap.
Yeah.
When this agent comes up looking for sponsorship, how quickly do you know what the goal is?
Like, do they come in going, hey, we're looking for a sponsor?
Or do they try to butter you up?
Well, quite frankly, I'm the guy with the butter now.
Yeah, right.
No question.
No question.
But for me, let's check it out and see what happens.
And then I won the sponsor in Detroit.
The next race was Detroit.
And then for the rest of the year, I think I paid for all the tires for both cars.
That's what I paid.
I forget what the numbers were.
Still not a small number.
And I was with Dale for a couple of years.
So you got a taste.
And the IV was stuck in me real deep.
Yeah, exactly.
Real deep.
Exactly.
So we partnered our ways.
We had some communication challenges.
I'll leave it at that.
And then I sponsored Alex and Patrick with Scania, which was another challenge.
Oh, you were part of the Andy Evans Fund.
Yeah.
Well, I was, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And how quickly do you know that was not going to work?
Well, as soon as he told me after I paid him that he wasn't going to do the car.
Oh, yeah.
That'll do that.
Yeah.
Okay.
So he was on brand.
So he had seven cars.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember these days.
He figured maybe I didn't pay him enough or something.
We wound up going to the court.
Obviously he lost.
So during this phase, though, it's always it's basic sponsorship model.
You're paying for some signage on a car.
You're dealing with Dale Coyne.
You're dealing with Andy Evans.
But you don't have a stake in these race teams.
No.
And then he was partnering up with Dick Simon.
Dick Simon.
Yeah.
He was a wonderful gentleman.
He screwed Simon big time.
I always had a lot of respect for Eric Bachelard.
He came up to me in 97 when I started.
Eric did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Andy Leichte.
Yeah.
And he took it for a partner.
Eric was always an honest man.
Smart guy.
So I agreed to partner up with him.
We had my jack quest racing.
And this was your first time having an ownership stake in a team.
And that wasn't until Eric got going with his problem.
Yeah.
With Conquest, which is then my jack Conquest.
Yeah.
How was the difference for you?
I liked it because it was a different challenge.
Yeah.
You liked it because you actually had assets or because you felt like you had more involvement
in it?
I had more involvement with the business side of it.
Yeah, right.
I know enough about racing to be dangerous.
So I keep my nose out of it.
But the business side of it.
You've done okay.
I'm pretty good at it.
So then the split happened and Cart was looking for teams.
And they actually funded my jack Conquest for a year or two for two cars.
In order to move up the champ car from what they were doing in lights.
Yeah.
So I stayed with Eric, I think through 04.
And then Paul Newman came up to me.
Heard of him.
In his own words, he says, me and Carl are getting up in age and we need somebody to replace
us.
Not that they were thinking about retiring that year, but I think I joined them in 05.
We were breathing heavy when he won his second championship in a row.
And I was a partner, I think, when he won three in a row.
And in the meantime, I got into the promoting business.
That's right.
I promoted Cleveland Grand Prix in Houston.
So to this day, I'm sure you spend a lot of time on Reddit.
But in the grand scheme of motorsport nostalgia, there are a ton of fans who miss the Cleveland
Grand Prix.
What was the Cleveland Grand Prix to you?
Because there's nothing like that on the calendar.
It was a great venue.
Actually, operational-wise, it was probably the cheapest street course you could do because
you didn't need a lot of wall or fences.
And they had ample parking.
The problem was finding sponsorship in Cleveland.
Oh, in Cleveland, there's not a lot of corporate America there.
But that was the problem.
I mean, you need a title and a presenting sponsor to take a lot of your bottom line.
Yeah.
And I love the Cleveland Grand Prix.
I think we did it for two or three years.
In Houston, I think we did two or three years.
Is there such a thing as a rights holder to that today?
I've been asked that before.
I honestly don't know.
Yeah.
Would you bring it back at the opportunity to present?
If Ryan and I came up with a check tomorrow.
I'm out.
I'm out.
We could sell a lot of podcasts.
Yeah, that's right.
Was it something you would want to put back on the map if you could?
I think everybody would.
It was a big hit.
Yeah.
It was a great venue.
Yeah.
With the time period that you're doing race promotion, how active are you in the day-to-day
at my jack at that point?
Are you one of those guys that can't sit still so you always need something to be working
on, or was it like you loved it so much you wanted to do it no matter, because you're
adding work and stress to your life by promoting an event now?
Well, number one, I love the competition.
Number two is I love working.
And if you talk to my wife, she says I've never home.
Yeah.
And maybe that's why I've been married 52 years.
The key to success sometimes.
But, I mean, if we get down to it, I'm a very fortunate person because I enjoy what I
do.
I mean, I'll tell you one thing, owning an Indie Cartier is enough for the faint of heart.
I mean, it started, especially over the last six or seven years.
But now there's a lot of hope and a lot of enthusiasm.
And people forget, before the split, Cart was more popular than the S-Cart.
Yeah, it's huge.
By a lot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And Indie Cartiers were making money.
Sponsors were, you know, in Carl Haas' own words, they were waiting outside the door
to spend their money.
They were in line.
I know.
I see him with a stogie saying it.
Yeah, exactly.
People were making a lot of money, though.
You know.
Yeah.
I mean, entire before the split.
You know, people were getting free engines, free tires, free this, free tires, plus, plus,
plus, plus.
And, you know, they were getting big money for sponsorship.
One thing I learned a long time ago from my father is, you know, just remember one thing.
And we're a huge company now.
You know, just remember one thing, son.
We all put our pants on the same way, one leg at a time.
And I treat people with respect.
I give them their own head, let them do what they do best.
And, because people don't, a lot of employers don't understand, you spend more time at work
than you do at home.
And if somebody doesn't feel like they're being treated fairly, they're not going to give
you everything they got.
Absolutely.
Yep.
Yep.
100%.
And, you know, there's a reason why we don't have a lot of turnover within the Lanco.
Within the Lanco, right?
It ain't my pretty face.
I'll guarantee you that.
Had you met Paul Newman before he came up to you?
Like, were you guys friendly or was this kind of out of nowhere conversation when he came
up to talk about joining them?
Well, I had met him a couple of times.
Just around.
At the time, Carl wanted to go to Ibiza.
Paul did not want to.
To IRL.
Carl wanted to go to IRL.
I thought there was a better financial opportunity.
Was this as team started to do at Penske and all of these guys started moving over?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul, they wanted to do it.
Interesting.
Yeah.
And, and I had been with them, oh, I spent some time wondering what the grandparent used
to, and, you know, he called me into his trailer a couple of times because he didn't like the
track.
It was bumpy.
And we got on.
And so he said, you know, if Carl goes into the car, I want to stay in the car.
But even if we don't, I still would like to have him come on board and want some young,
young blood at the time.
And we caught it.
We caught on.
And some reason we became extremely close.
And I was with him the last four months of his life.
I was there almost every weekend with him.
I used to go, Paul died September of 2008.
And the last race he went to was Milwaukee.
From Milwaukee on, he didn't go to a race.
So I used to go to the track on Saturday.
And then Sunday morning, I'd fly to Westport and watch the race with him on TV.
And he'd always be waiting for me.
He had an old house built in 1780 in Westport.
Big barn behind our three-story barn.
And then he had about 10 or 15 acres next to it.
We'd walk it all the time.
But so I'd be at the track on Saturday.
Sunday I'd go with Wes to race together in the barn.
Now Paul and his younger days liked beer.
I mean, it was older, it was ale.
I'll never forget one of the, every race, quite frankly, he'd still sit in the barn.
He'd be waiting for me between the barn and the house.
Because he had Eddie, Eddie was his assistant.
He used to pick me up at the airport.
And he'd be waiting for me and then we'd go in the barn.
They'd have hamburgers, whatever, whatever, whatever.
I'll never forget.
He'd always be sitting in front of the couch, in front of the TV, and he'd go,
Get to have two of these today.
Big day, yeah.
And I'm like somebody gave him a million bucks.
Paul knew me.
But he's excited about two million.
And he never complained.
He actually was mobile up and, he was mobile up and, I saw him four days before he died.
And he wasn't waiting for me between the barn.
He was in the, they had a, he had a, a breezeway.
And so I went in the breezeway.
He's sitting, sitting in a, in a chair.
And we're talking.
And he'd be sitting, sitting there with his feet up and his eye would go,
Boop.
And he'd go.
You gonna put it back up?
Put it back up.
Yeah.
So he's having mini strokes, I think.
He was still 100% coherent.
Never complained.
The only thing he, you know, we used to take walks.
He had that, a passing out of that 10 acres next to him.
He talked, the only thing he was worried about is his wife would be taken care of when he,
when he, I mean, it was a true love affair.
And he, he was a liberal.
Carl was a conservative.
But Paul walked the walk.
Paul gave away money to a fault, to a fault, literally to a fault.
The memory told me, he says, my kids aren't going to be too happy with me.
How was your wife the first time Paul Newman called the house?
Oh, did you hear that story yet?
No, I don't know.
There we go.
There's a story.
That was organic.
Did you tell her that story?
No.
No.
I didn't know the story.
In my drinking days.
Okay.
In my drinking days.
Walter had the candy ability to be able to talk like a woman.
Oh, Walter Peyton.
Oh, hang on.
Okay.
Let's, let's.
Wait, wait.
Paul Newman.
Paul Newman, like, he's Paul Newman.
So like, if Paul Newman calls the house, like there, there's not a woman on earth that
wouldn't kind of freak out.
Well, she didn't freak out because she met him a couple times before they started calling
him.
He called a lot.
Okay.
Well, how was she the first time she met him?
Like, did you not exist for a second?
Well, if she got hot and bothered, I didn't see it.
I just put it that way.
Yeah, not true.
But she was, you know, she, she thought the world of women.
Paul was, Paul was a regular guy.
So you were close friends with Walter Peyton.
How does that happen?
Yeah.
And just for context, this was like the running back of the 1980s.
For the Chicago Bears.
He's running back ever.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
Probably the best all-round athlete.
Yeah.
All, like, yeah.
I'm like A-list athlete of all time.
Yeah.
All-famers.
How do you know him just from being in Chicago?
When I moved back to Chicago, we used to rent the Chicago Bears 60-foot man baskets.
Wait, what?
What is that?
Hold on.
Yeah.
An aerial work platform, you know, where they're filming.
Oh, okay.
And, and...
Wait, so my Jack would rent the...
Well, we had a rental fleet of scissors lists and man baskets.
Oh, okay.
So you had to, you were doing the equipment.
Yeah.
For running the cameras to do the aerial shots.
So we, we worked out a deal with the Bears and back at Halis Hall, you had to walk through
the locker room to get to the field.
Yeah.
And this was like the 80s Bears, which were unstoppable.
Yes.
Yeah.
And Walter being, Walter, he screwed me all the time.
I mean, I walked through, grabbed me, picked me up, threw me around.
Yeah.
You're not a small person.
No.
And I was, I was, I was a lot bigger.
Oh, wow.
I mean, a lot bigger.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Courage, to be honest.
Yeah.
But, but, but...
So he kept on saying, you know, let's do something together, you know, let's do something together.
And we talked a lot, but I couldn't figure out what to do with, with him.
And then, so in 94, he was racing Trans Am cars.
Right.
Because he, he developed a taste for motor sports.
Yeah.
He began to really love it.
He started driving with Trans Am.
It was pretty good.
Yeah.
Exactly.
We drove with Scott Sharp in the Budweiser cars.
So, I was with Dale Coyne at the time, I think, 93 or 94.
And my brother-in-law heard that Walter Payton was there.
And he brought my kids, my kids were all small.
Yeah.
And he was signing autographs at, at Scott Sharp's transporter.
So, my brother-in-law was there, he's got a my jacket on.
Now, I hadn't not talked to Walter for a couple of years.
He retired in 87.
So, he sees the hat.
And he goes to my brother-in-law.
Where's that f***ing landing?
Which has to come out of nowhere for that.
Yeah.
Well, my brother didn't know I'd do one.
Yeah.
And we're almost a decade later.
Yeah.
And he still mess it with you.
And he goes, Tom would get, my brother-in-law says, well, he's, he's, he's, he's in the
Indy Car Paddock.
Tom would get his goddamn ass here and kick his ass.
He's like, what?
He's like, how did you, what?
Yeah.
What is that?
That's gotta be weird when this Hall of Fame legend.
Oh, yeah.
I don't know.
We connected.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah.
And so, my brother-in-law comes over to the Indy Car Paddock and says, you know Walter
Payton?
I says, yeah, why?
He's like, he wants to kick you, right?
He's furious.
He says, you better get over to her right away.
And I said, fuck him.
And so I waited about an hour and over there and I said, when we're going to do something
like, when we do something, we'll do something.
At the time I was getting my tail beaten up doing business with the city of Chicago because
they were doing, they were giving a lot of the business to minority business enterprises.
So, if you were an MBE, you can get 20% of premium on equipment if you were an MBE.
And I was never big on partners.
But so, I said to myself, well, if I'm going to have a partner and I need a minority.
I have a friend.
Yeah.
Well, not the most popular guy in the city.
Right.
How about a Chicago legend?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I started talking to him about, you know, how about, what do you think about the equipment
business?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, he was from, he lived in, on the north side.
I was a South Side guy.
So, he started a company called Walter Payton Power Equipment.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
He loved the idea, let's do it.
And back then, there was a lot of companies that had fake MBE companies.
I wanted a real one.
Yeah.
And you already had a relationship with a guy.
And previously, I had discussed how can we work together.
It's because you liked each other.
Yeah.
We respected each other.
Right.
So, he put a hundred, he was going to put 101,000 in.
I was going to put 99.
But he had to be the majority owner.
Sure.
Yeah.
But I never told him what I wanted him for.
Okay.
So, now he's getting ready, you know, let's sign the papers, let's do it.
So, I had to go up to Schomburg, his office was, and I'm sweating my ass off thinking,
I got to tell him I want him because he's a black man.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Now, how do you tell a guy...
And he's your friend too.
Yeah, he's my friend for sure.
Yeah.
How do you tell a guy that's stronger than you, faster than you?
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I'll never forget, I got a tone.
Yeah.
So, it's sitting his office, chambers room, it's him, and it's right in, lady.
And I'm going, how do I say this, how do I do this?
So, his lady assistant said, you know, Mike, did you ever think about an MBE?
I said, tell me about it.
It's a story.
She said, well, you know, Walter would, Walter would be the black man and Walter would go,
Walter would go, you know, I'm a black mother, you know.
She says, you know, but he has to have 51%.
Yeah.
Really?
I said, that's kind of interesting.
That's the word of God.
I said, let me think about it, I'll call you tomorrow.
Right.
Let me, let me take some time.
And that's how it started, Walter Payton Power Equipment.
And then what happened was, we built the company up, Walter Payton Power Equipment, I own 49%,
Lank owned 49, I own 51, and this is a 94, a 95.
And again, he's a superstar athlete.
He's done very well for himself financially.
So, this isn't something he has to do.
This is something that you guys can do.
Yes.
And so it's just like, why don't we do this deal?
We sold the company four years later, and before he died and he made a ton of money.
And unfortunately, a lot of his other people he was in business with screwed up.
Because he trusted too many.
Walter had a weakness of his trust.
Right.
Which is a sad thing that that's a weakness.
That's not untypical.
Yeah, right.
It really isn't.
I've known a lot of celebrities, but because they got other things into it.
Okay, I trust you, but you just take care of it.
Don't worry about it.
But let me know what happens, you know.
But Walter, I mean, I was with him when he died.
He had like a rare liver disease, is that correct?
Yeah, a bile duct cancer.
Okay.
I'll tell you one story that you should put on the radio one of these days.
Walter was a very private guy.
Walter was a super classy guy.
I mean, two stories.
Number one, Walter got drafted in the NFL, second or third pick in 1975.
In 1977, his father got pulled over for DUI.
Now, Walter was born and raised in Mississippi.
Okay.
Now, in the 60s.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Deep South.
I don't have to say anymore, do I?
Okay.
Different time.
So in 77-ish, father got pulled over for DUI.
State police ruined it in the slammer.
They didn't check on him for 24 hours.
They checked on him 24 hours later, he was dead.
He wasn't drinking.
He was having a diabetic attack.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So if anybody should be a racist, it should have been Walter.
Oh, yeah, understood.
And Walter needs to tell me, I don't look at a color of person's skin.
I look at what's in their heart.
I mean, he was just a phenomenal guy, a phenomenal guy.
But he was a very private guy.
So Walter's a private guy.
Yeah.
Walter had bile duct cancer.
He had two tumors on the inlet of his liver.
And there was only one company I know of that would still give him a liver transplant
if the tumor didn't spread.
And so he went through chemo and everything else, and now it's time.
He had to be about dead to get a liver back in 99.
And in order for him to get to the top of the list, they wanted to...
Mayo was going to do it in Minneapolis.
So they opened them up from rib to rib, to physically look.
And I was out of town, and I was one of two people, two or three people that knew about how ugly it was.
And I called up his right-hand lady and said, how'd it go?
Not good.
He's got one to two months without chemo, three to four with chemo.
Give him a call, he needs to talk to somebody.
And like I said, Walter used to screw with me, and I screwed with him.
So I used to call him, hey, WP, what's shaking?
What's going down, brother P? WP, what's going down, brother?
And so I said, I call him up.
He was still at Mayo.
And I said, hey, WP, what's shaking?
Knowing what I know.
What's happening? What's shaking?
What's going down, WP?
He says, hey, Mikey says, I got good news and I got bad news.
I said, I don't say that, Walter.
I got good news and bad news.
What do you want to hear first?
I said, well, give me the bad news.
He says, Mikey, I'm not going to be around very much longer.
I don't say that, Walter.
No, no, I'm not going to be around very much longer.
What's the good news?
I'm alive today.
There you go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like that.
I like that a lot.
Think about that.
Yeah.
There's a story behind it.
That's a man knowing what's coming.
And he can still see the positive side of it.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
The champion mindset.
Right, absolutely.
Yeah.
This is a remarkable guy.
Yeah.
Wow.
Markable guy.
I read that you were the co-executor on his will.
Yes.
Amen.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So, I mean, this wasn't just like a business partnership.
This is a true friendship.
Yeah.
I mean, yes, yes.
I mean, I spent a lot of time with him the last three or four months of his life.
And he never heard him complain once.
And he was in a lot of pain.
A lot of pain.
But up until the day he got sick, he did 500 sit-ups and 500 push-ups a day in the steam
room.
Even well after retirement.
For no reason.
He could have played up until the day.
Yeah.
Really.
He got sick.
And powerful.
I don't think he could pick you up, I believe it.
Yeah.
We were in Long Beach.
You know, I put him together with Coyne.
I don't think I did that to my regret, but I didn't want to do that.
But we were at Long Beach and some guy, 6'4", 2'8", muscles coming out of his ears.
I mean, just an Arnold Schwarzenegger.
And he's messing with Walter.
Hey, let's see what you got.
Let's arm wrestle, Walter.
I bet you 100 bucks.
And Walter said, I don't gamble.
He kept on need of them.
So Walter says, I'll tell you what I'll do.
Oh, arm wrestle, yes.
If I lose, I'll pay you 100 bucks.
If you lose, you pay the hell.
Payton Foundation 500 bucks.
So we sat down at the table, Walter, with this guy.
I'm standing up.
They do this, go.
And Walter's looking up at me.
This guy's grunting and groaning.
He goes, what time's practice now?
Yeah.
And well, how much time we got?
Yeah.
And this guy says, well, it's time to go.
Okay, fine.
I mean, he was a freak in nature.
Yeah.
And this is well past his prime.
I mean, that's incredible.
He was unbelievable.
For the sake of your time, you got to be a part of a very
successful run at Newman-Hoss.
What was your takeaway from being that successful?
Because you'd been with some good programs, some OK programs,
some scandals.
Carl ran a great show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Carl knew his stuff.
He's loved out about it.
Yeah.
If you look at the Newman-Hoss landing in career,
every time they showed up, they were a threat.
As a partner and an owner of that, that's got to feel great.
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
Carl ran a good show.
He had the chassis distributor shit.
He charged the team list price.
But no, he ran a good show.
And they had a great damper program.
And he had great drivers.
Four days is the real deal.
I always was the real deal.
And Carl did a great job.
There's no doubt about it.
So we're both massive Justin Wilson fans.
I've got a badass Wilson sticker on my Hans device currently
that I wear every weekend.
What was your experience working with Justin?
I only met him briefly in passing.
Well, Eric's the one that brought him home.
Eric Bachelard.
Bachelard.
He was with Minority, I think.
And he quiet, serious, very classy, would do anything for you.
Just a gentleman's gentleman.
And he was just a good person and a great family.
His parents were phenomenal, phenomenal parents.
And I knew his younger brother, too.
But I knew his parents quite well.
And Justin, if he was on one of the elite teams,
I mean, he would do an host for one year, I think.
And I mean, he could have been one of the all-time greats.
He had certainly had all-time great talents.
And in fact, when I was in Detroit Grand Prix,
we won the Detroit Grand Prix in 08.
And I'm sitting next to Paul in front of the TV.
Justin wins it.
Justin, they were interviewing Justin.
Justin goes, this one's for you, Paul.
You should have seen his smile on his face.
I looked at Newman and I says, how come he didn't take me?
You know what he said?
Because you're not Paul Newman.
That's what he said.
That's what he said.
Because you're not Paul Newman.
I'm wrong.
That's a lot of truth to that.
It was a humbling situation.
And also, because of Paul Newman's character,
you know it's coming from a place of love.
Oh, yeah.
Paul was five-star.
Paul was five-star.
Yeah.
It was a tall glass of water, too.
Yeah, yeah, no.
Every bit of six-four.
Yeah, no question.
Every bit of six-four.
I spent a few minutes with him in the morning.
He died of a polka-dove.
He died of a polka-dove, right?
Yeah.
He was on a bicycle.
He stopped when we talked a little bit.
But he was the wonderful person.
You know, they say only the good die young.
That's an example.
My son Patrick was really tight with him.
And Pat still talks to his widow.
I think they live in Colorado still.
We have a couple of fan questions,
because we let our fans know who's going to be on the show.
So we do a thing for Patreon.
And we have a fan named Michael Renick.
And his question for you was,
are there any leadership lessons that you brought back
from motorsports to your businesses?
I think it confirms, racing confirms the successes
that we have at MyJack by treating people well,
treating with respect, and believing in them,
and being patient.
So you're extremely successful in the real world of business.
But racing is a very niche business.
Have you been able to implement anything from your real world
of actual professional expertise into racing teams?
Well, I think the only thing I bring quite frankly
is budgets and cash flow advances,
and three and five year business plans.
I mean, generally speaking,
racing is the toughest business that I'm involved with.
Wow.
Without question.
That's a quote.
Without question.
That's a real question.
You know why?
Because you can't touch it.
You can't kick it.
You're selling air.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
United Reynolds is a good example of some things
that you've brought to the company.
Well, I've brought a lot of sponsors to the company.
Oh, question.
So it's a big B2B relationship.
Like United Reynolds is very attached to your involvement
in RLL.
Is that just a partnership through the MyJack side of life,
or how do things like that come together?
It started with me.
It started with me.
We've known them for a long time,
and I know one of the advantages of being old
and in the business for a long time,
you know a lot of people at the highest levels.
And I've built relationships.
In fact, the relationships are.
And people believe in them.
They trust you.
They take chances with you.
And it's worked.
It's worked, so.
There's a lot of B2B stuff to be helped with.
I mean, RLL is a big team.
It's a big financial commitment.
It's a big way.
Big way.
I mean, it started out as a hobby.
It certainly is not a hobby now.
So we did lunch today with Tony Pedragon,
two-time funny car champion at NHRA.
And his question for you was, what was your first car?
69 badge R2.
That's the one you got from your brother?
Yeah.
Nice.
And you know what?
I still have it.
No way!
Did you have the whole time,
or did you lose it and have to go find it?
Actually, no.
I bought it from my brother Jack.
I sold it to my brother Bill.
My brother Bill sold it back to my brother Jack.
It stayed within the four boys.
And it looks exactly the same.
So tomorrow we're going to have lunch
with Ziggy Hargis from Andretti.
He's a longtime mechanic,
team manager, crew chief.
I don't know if you know him,
but he is apparently quite the character.
If there's any question you could think,
and it doesn't have to be about racing,
it can be anything you want,
that we could ask Ziggy on your behalf.
Yeah, I get a question for him.
Is he available as a hire?
That's great.
That's fantastic.
Tell him, tell him, tell him,
if he worked for us as a new boss,
it would be a lot nicer than its current boss.
I like it.
I like it.
All right, we don't want to keep you.
We don't want to get you killed.
No problem.
But, you know, obviously you've been going
to the 500 every year for 50 plus years now.
With your involvement in RLL,
Takuma finally wins it in 2020.
How was that experience for you
to finally be part of a win?
Well, when year did he crash?
12.
18 or 12.
12, yeah.
Was it 12?
On the final lap?
Yeah.
Yeah, it was 2012.
Yeah.
I kept on telling him he owes me a five-hundred.
Oh, because that was a right-haul car.
Yeah.
And he's fighting on the last lap,
and then he goes into the wall.
Talk about the thrill of victory
in the agony of defeat.
That's your car, yeah.
We went from winning that,
he had a better car than Frank Eddie.
Yeah, oh yeah, he had the run.
Yeah, I mean, he had it.
Yeah.
And Frank Eddie did the right thing.
There's no rules on the last lap.
There's no rule.
Right.
Period.
So in 2012, you watched your certain,
you're in the five-hundred.
I was going, I was leaving this week.
To go down to see Victory Lane 2012.
To go get some milk.
Yeah.
And we went from winning the five-hundred
to having a financial...
Problem.
Problem.
Yeah.
But we always kept in contact,
he drove for this couple of years after that.
Anyway, I went to Andretti, I think,
and then, but I always had,
I always had a highest respect for Takuma
because you got to be brave at the end.
And you got to do things that normal people would not do.
And I'll put it that way.
And, you know, he,
my goal was to win the five-hundred before I die.
And when you're talking about the drinking story,
so when I quit drinking 25 years ago,
I told my wife, okay, I quit drinking,
but if I win the five-hundred, I'm going to get drunk.
To get a good night.
And my wife said,
no problem, you'll never win the goddamn thing anyway.
Oh!
Wow.
Yeah, talk about it.
Wow.
You're like, guess what?
Yeah.
And, but...
Okay, so how was that night?
Well, they jumped on the plane.
I had a whole family there that night.
We found a restaurant across from there.
And, but, um,
I think I needed my training wheels at night.
I wasn't in shape.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, where did you guys go?
Where did we go?
I think it was Daredevil.
Daredevil and Stove.
Yeah, just on Main Street.
Because we won the 8500 when no one was allowed to be there.
Oh, right.
It's COVID.
It's COVID.
Yeah, exactly.
So, we had all of our partners,
the ones that would travel during COVID,
in August.
Yeah, so you were already in your,
were they called back then?
Yeah.
You were in your little bubble.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So, we had a bubble at Daredevil brewery.
And we had it kitted out as if it was our hospitality area.
Yeah.
And then I just,
because the race was later that day,
I didn't show up until like 11 with like Takuma.
Yeah, you're doing it.
And everybody was like,
woo!
They're already toasting.
Including this guy.
Yeah, the boss man.
Yeah.
Nice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I said I needed training wheels.
In the old days,
they would,
I would have been on my second bottle.
But what they haven't asked yet,
is how'd you feel the next day?
I felt like s***.
Yeah, honestly.
Yeah.
But it was well worth the hangover.
Yeah.
It was totally mine.
As we're winding down,
I'm curious,
how did you make the transition from
the Newman landing and stuff,
Newman-Hoss landing and stuff,
over to Bobby?
Like how does that begin?
Does Bobby come to you,
or do you go to him?
I spent a good amount of time with Bob
because Graham drove from the Atlantic.
And quite frankly,
after Paul died,
it was a different situation.
Sure.
Yeah, yeah.
And I was really good at that.
And I wanted it out.
Right.
So were you thinking out of the sport,
or just out of that opportunity at the moment?
Just out of.
Sure.
So then do you pin contacts?
Bobby or Graham?
I think Bob would have called me.
Sure.
Yeah.
We got along well with his kids drove from the city.
Right.
And he knew that I was a racer.
Sure.
And I've been involved with all the aspects of racing
to sponsor and own and promote.
Right.
And that's been an awful expensive resume
to stay there like that.
Can't imagine.
An awful expensive resume.
But would you say you've sold enough cranes
to make sense of this?
Well, we're still in business.
All right.
Yeah.
And we're a lot bigger company today
than we were.
I mean, a lot there.
I think I got, I don't know,
three or four thousand people working for me now.
Right.
Jesus.
Wow.
Yeah.
I've been very fortunate.
I've got good people.
Yeah.
And again, I'll go back to the same scenario.
You treat people with respect.
You give them their own head.
You don't ask them to do anything you would do yourself.
Right.
And it's amazing the loyalty we get.
And if, you know, I give you an example.
You don't like what you do and get the hell out of that
because, like, I'll give you an example.
When I was in grammar school,
I hated math.
I love geographies.
Yeah.
Same.
Same.
I flunked math.
I got straight A's and G's out of there.
Exactly the same.
Why?
Because I listened.
Yes.
And I paid attention.
It was interesting to you.
Yeah.
It was interesting.
Exactly the same.
Same thing will work.
Yeah.
You don't like what you're doing.
Get out because you're fooling yourself.
And then, you know, if you have to,
if you wake up on Monday or Tuesday morning
and say, oh, it's not Saturday,
you're not going to get the full talent
out of what God gave you.
And that's where, you know,
I was never in Albert Einstein,
but I mean, my enthusiasm and my,
you know, my drive, you know,
the harder you work, the luckier you get.
It's amazing how that happens, you know?
And I've been accused of being a hard worker.
Maybe because I haven't learned it yet.
I haven't learned.
Yeah.
But it is what it is.
So your professional life away from racing has not,
I'm guessing, or I'm asking,
have you gained more financial success
from being involved in racing than if you didn't?
I've created a lot more customers.
Okay.
So you found a benefit of being here.
Yes.
Okay.
But did you have to go racing for that?
I don't know what the answer is.
Yeah, yeah.
Because where I'm going with this is like,
people like you keep the dream alive
for people like me,
because you don't have to do this.
You could have just sold cranes
and found boating to be more interesting.
Well, in any phase of racing,
we have to love it.
Yeah, exactly right.
You know, I used to call it my weekend job,
but it's more than that now.
This is sort of the message we keep trying to send to fans,
that people are, even people that sponsor the sport
are people that are involved in finding this level.
They're only here not because the ROI makes sense,
but because they're enthusiastic about being here.
If that enthusiasm goes,
if you're not finding it cool,
you're not going to come back.
That's true.
And then the other side of that is,
I've tried to make it happen to this,
because it won't benefit me at all.
But as a racecar driver,
thank you for wanting to be here,
because you have created lives and careers and dreams
for people that need Mike Leningens to exist.
And I've got my Mike Leningens in my world.
But your financial commitment to this,
because you love it,
is keeping the dream alive
for so many racers that want to do this.
And I don't know if anybody says thank you to you, but...
Well, I appreciate that.
It does matter.
I mean, I really feel for races,
because like I said earlier,
you can be the best athlete in the world.
That doesn't bring you success.
Exactly right.
There's a couple...
There's three pegs to the store.
And, you know, I've seen a lot of guys
that have a lot of talent that...
It's got to matter.
Yeah.
And the final question for you is legacy.
We try to make this podcast as non-current as possible,
because we'd hope that somebody
maybe 10 years from now would hear it,
and they'd get to learn about you.
What would you hope somebody 10 years from now
would take away about you and your legacy?
That I was fair with people.
That I did what I promised I would do.
And the only thing...
The only legacy I'd like to leave is that
if I gave you my word, it would be done.
And believe in people, trust people,
and be fair with people.
Because that's it.
That's it with that.
Continental's got the check.
I'm finished.
That compass tells me where to go.
Everything I touch turns to gold.
It's automatic on the road.
That sickness feeling, got to let it out.
Dancing on the ceiling won't come down.
How about that?
Bring it on back.
Look where we at.
How about that?
How about that?
Exactly where I want to be.
You catch me doing as I please.
Don't think I've ever felt so free.
I keep on flowing with the breeze.
That sickness feeling, got to let it out.
Dancing on the ceiling won't come down.
How about that?
Bring it on back.
Look where we at.
How about that?
How about that?
How about that?
I'm cool, I'm making my own rules.
Don't tell me what to do.
Round two, look out, I'm coming through.
I keep on making moves.
How about that?
Bring it on back.
Look where we at.
How about that?
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