Le Mans is a famous long-distance race where cars run for 24 hours straight. It’s a big deal because the cars have to stay fast and reliable for an entire day.
“A second off” is racing shorthand for being about one second slower per lap (or per comparable timing segment) than a reference pace. In high-level motorsport, that gap can mean you’re no longer competitive enough to stay in the fight—or even keep your seat—because qualifying and race pace are extremely tight.
Spencer Pimpelli is a person the hosts mention from their earlier episodes. They’re talking about a recurring joke that started with him, not explaining a car or racing technology.
Dario Frankini is another race-related person mentioned in the story. The hosts are referencing an incident they’ve talked about before, rather than discussing a specific car part or technique.
Johnny O’Connell is a famous American race driver. The hosts are saying he’s still racing today and that they’ve built a strong relationship with him through the podcast.
“GT cars” are race cars based on real road cars. They’re built to compete in racing series where the cars have to last and stay consistent for the whole race.
Continental Tire is a major tire manufacturer and motorsport sponsor. Here, the hosts credit Continental Tire for continuing to support the podcast’s production and racing-related content.
The Ford Ranger is a pickup truck, meaning it has a cargo bed in the back. It’s made for carrying things and handling everyday driving, not just racing. People may mention it in a conversation because it’s a common, recognizable truck.
The Mitsubishi Evo is a performance car made by Mitsubishi. It’s famous for being fast and controllable, and people often modify them for racing like hill climbs.
Pikes Peak is a very famous hill climb race in Colorado. Drivers race up a steep mountain road, and it’s hard to get right—small mistakes can be dangerous.
Hill climb is a type of racing where you drive up a steep mountain road as fast as you can. The car has to keep pulling hard the whole way, so setup and driving matter.
Horsepower is basically how much power the engine makes. More horsepower can help a car go faster, especially when climbing, but the tires and cooling still have to handle it.
It’s a go-kart course built inside a warehouse or building. Because it’s indoors, the track conditions are more consistent, so people can race and compare lap times.
A dirt cart chassis is the main frame of a go-kart meant for dirt tracks. It’s the part that everything else mounts to, and it strongly affects how the kart handles on loose ground.
They’re describing a regular weekly kart-racing get-together on Fridays. It’s basically a recurring competition where people show up to race and settle rivalries.
A chassis is the structural frame that supports the engine, wheels, and suspension components. Calling these go-karts “road racing chassis” implies they’re built with real racing-style geometry and stiffness rather than basic rental-kart hardware.
Horsepower is a way to describe how much power an engine makes. “Six horsepower” means these carts have a small but measurable amount of power, which affects how fast they feel.
“Hitting ice” means the tires suddenly meet an extremely slippery surface. When that happens, the car can lose control quickly and start sliding.
Topic
Canaan
“Canaan” sounds like a specific place or track they’re talking about. They mention it while discussing how much fuel they used there.
Topic
America
“America” here sounds like a name for something he did or wrote, not just the country. The excerpt doesn’t explain what it specifically is.
Topic
go up the mountain
“Go up the mountain” sounds like a climb event where you drive uphill. Those runs can be tough because the car has to keep pulling while conditions change.
“Slid it” means the car started losing grip and the tires couldn’t hold the road. The driver had to manage the slide, especially on slippery surfaces.
Topic
Super V
Super V is the racing series the driver competed in. He’s talking about how the car had podiums but also had races where a mechanical problem cost him wins.
A butterfly valve is the part that controls airflow into the engine, kind of like a controllable “door” for air. If it breaks loose, it can get into the engine where it can cause major damage.
Car
Volkswagen 1600
This is a classic Volkswagen race setup with a 1600 engine. The host is saying a very small screw that held a throttle-related part backed out, and that led to the engine being destroyed during a race.
Jerry Conrad is the person who was paying for the racing. When he stopped funding, the driver used what he could get from the equipment to keep racing.
Alastair McNeil is the person the driver worked with to make the racing happen. The driver brought the money to him so they could put a team together for the next season.
Ricky Cameron is the person who ran the team as crew chief. That role is basically the leader who helps decide how the car should be set up and how the team should run the races.
Concept
limited budget
Racing costs a lot, and a limited budget means you can’t spend on everything. The point of the story is that they still won the championship even with less money than others.
Alan McNish is a professional race car driver, especially known for endurance racing. Here, Johnny O’Connell talks about meeting him again and how McNish eventually decided he was done driving.
A prototype is a race car built specifically for racing, not a modified regular street car. It’s designed from the ground up to be fast and competitive in events like endurance races.
“S’s” means a part of the track where the turns flow back and forth like an S shape. Drivers have to keep the car balanced and under control because it’s changing direction a lot.
Armco is a type of steel guardrail you see along roads and race tracks. It’s there to help protect drivers by taking some of the crash energy and keeping cars from going off the track.
“Out of the cockpit” means the driver is out of the car after a crash. It usually suggests the situation was serious and the driver couldn’t just stay in and drive away.
A wet track is when the road surface is slippery because of water. Tires don’t grip as well, so you have to brake and turn more gently and usually slower.
This is a team tactic where one driver helps another. The helper driver stays in a position that makes it harder for other cars to pass, so the main driver can keep their advantage.
A guardrail is the metal barrier at the side of a race track. It’s there to stop cars from going off the track, and in crashes it can be the difference between a close call and something much worse.
A racing tire is the kind of tire used for track driving, made to take a lot of stress. If one gets hit and comes loose, it’s heavy and can roll or fly toward people and cars, which is why it’s so dangerous.
Concept
entry to the racetrack
The “entry to the racetrack” is the point where cars get onto the main driving area. In a crash, how far something travels from that point can decide whether it stays contained or becomes a serious threat.
Team orders are when the team tells the drivers what to do during the race. Sometimes they want one driver to win the championship, so they ask another driver to slow down or let them through.
This sounds like Road Atlanta, a famous race track. It’s the kind of track where the timing of slowing down or managing fuel can really decide who wins.
The “last lap” is a critical phase where race strategy and team communication can override pure pace. Decisions like slowing down for a teammate or managing fuel often show up most clearly at the end of the race.
An aftermarket part business sells components that are not made by the original automaker. In motorsport contexts, these parts are often used to improve performance, reliability, or compliance for racing rules.
Group C was a famous class of race cars used for endurance racing. It was known for rules that pushed teams to build cars that could go far while using fuel efficiently.
Mechanical sympathy means treating the car gently and intelligently. You drive in a way that doesn’t stress or strain the important parts unnecessarily.
This means the tires stop rolling and start sliding while braking. Sliding usually means you’re losing grip, so braking and steering control get worse.
IMSA is the organization that runs major sports-car races in North America. The host is saying these kinds of race cars were common in that racing world.
It’s an engine with six cylinders arranged in a V shape, and it uses two turbochargers. The turbos cram extra air into the engine so it can make more power.
Torque is the engine’s twisting force. More torque usually means the car can pull harder and accelerate more strongly, especially when you’re not at the very top of the rev range.
Firebird Raceway is a race track where drivers test and race cars. In this story, it’s where the speaker remembers the car being really tricky to drive.
The Pontiac Firebird is a performance car, usually a two-door coupe, made for driving fast and having fun. It’s connected to racing because people have driven and raced them at tracks. In the podcast, it’s mentioned in relation to Firebird Raceway.
Boost is the extra pressure from the turbo that makes the engine feel stronger. Drivers have to learn when it kicks in so the car doesn’t suddenly lose traction.
Traction control is a computer system that helps prevent wheel spin. Without it, the driver has to be more careful with throttle to keep the tires from slipping.
ABS is a safety feature that stops your wheels from locking up when you brake hard. Without ABS, it’s easier to lose steering control during heavy braking.
Term
titanium sparks
Sometimes race cars use special metal parts that can throw off bright sparks when they rub or wear under hard driving. In this story, the sparks are coming from titanium parts the driver was using.
Term
titanium buttons
“Buttons” here means small replaceable pieces on the car. Using titanium for them can help them survive hard use, and they can even spark when they’re rubbing or wearing.
Place
Rotoland
Rotoland is the name of the race track they’re talking about. They’re describing how a certain corner leads into a dip in the road, which changes how the car feels and grips.
“The dip” is a part of the track where the road drops down. When you hit it, the tires can lose or gain grip differently, and that can make the car harder to drive, especially early in a race.
Early in a run, the tires may not be fully warmed up. When that happens, they don’t grip as well and the car can feel less predictable until the tires come up to temperature.
IRL is short for a racing series called the Indy Racing League. It’s the open-wheel championship that includes the Indianapolis 500 and other oval races. The speaker is talking about joining that series for a limited stretch.
Cosworth is a company that makes race engines. Saying “Cosworth engine” means the car was using an engine built by Cosworth, which matters because it affects how fast and how the car drives.
The pit lane is the side area where teams work on the race car during stops. When you “pull out of the pit lane,” you’re leaving the team area and getting back onto the track.
A rookie orientation is the required training and rules briefing for new drivers. In this story, the speaker says rookies have to complete a minimum amount of track time—40 laps—before they’re allowed to race normally.
A “clean start” means the race gets going without crashes or trouble in the first part of the race. It helps everyone avoid damage and keeps the race from getting slowed down.
The “first stop” is the first time the car pulls into the pits during the race. It’s important because what happens there can change where you run on the track.
That means a part that connects the engine’s oil lines failed. When oil leaks, it can cause overheating and can also lead to fire if it hits hot parts.
Term
360
A “360” means the car spun around in a full rotation. It usually happens when the tires suddenly lose grip.
In endurance racing, a “two-car team” means the team runs two race cars during the same event. The idea is to improve your chances—if one car has a problem, the other can still keep going and help the team score.
LMP1 was the highest level of prototype race cars used in endurance racing. They’re built specifically for long races like Le Mans, not adapted from normal street cars.
Road Atlanta is a famous race track in the U.S. It has a mix of fast corners and hard braking, so it’s a good place to see how well a race car really works.
“11s” means the car is doing laps in about 11 seconds. It’s a quick way racers compare how fast different cars are.
LIVE
So, sports car legend, Johnny O'Connell, if you could describe this lunch we just had in one word, what would it be?
Heartburn.
It was poor place.
And now for Dinner with Racers, presented by Continental Tire with your hosts, Ryan Eversley and Sean Heckman.
What do you think I should do?
Engine on!
Hey, we're doing one of the reheats.
That's right.
Reheated.
Same deal as we've done with other reheated episodes.
Just for kind of recording new stuff for this year.
In 2026, we're putting out some old ones.
These are the exact same episodes you've heard in the past, but just reissued in case,
well in case you forgot they were out there.
And, you know, we're kind of in a sandwich of two very cool sports car events.
We just came off the 24 hours of Le Mans, which is obviously as big as it gets in sports cars.
And then next weekend we've got another pretty cool sports car event coming up in what city, Ryan?
The Walkins Glen, New York.
Yeah, the Walkins Glen 6-Hour, which is a personal favorite.
And it's definitely one of the favorite places for you and I to visit during the course of the year.
And there's a certain gentleman that has stories from both and they're pretty interesting.
And they're interesting because not only are they fun, but when it comes to pace and being fast at these tracks,
tell me about this man's pace when it comes to any race track.
Well, I mean, it's well documented that if you've ever heard of Johnny O'Connell and you look up his career highlights,
as well as the people he raced with, it is a stacked lineup of XF1 drivers, sports car champions,
and NASCAR stars, you name it.
And none of them were able to get within a second of Johnny O'Connell if you listen to this episode.
And that's pretty impressive because they all had careers.
And in our business, if you're a second off anybody, you might be out.
Exactly. So the fact that according to Johnny, every person he's ever driven with, he was one second faster.
As again, documented in this episode,
then it's insane just how successful his career must have been to have been a second faster than literally everybody at all times.
Right. And what's really funny about this is back then we were doing a lot of gimmicks.
We had a lot of bits, as we always say.
And so this became the season long running joke.
The first season was Spencer Pimpelli killed a guy.
And this went just as far as the Pimpelli thing.
And what I loved about it was the next time I saw Johnny O, you know, like five months later after Daytona or something,
he was a sport about it.
He's like, ah, you guys got me.
I was like, what a bro. He's such a good dude.
Yeah, you want that versus having fun.
What the hell, man?
Well, you never know.
I mean, there are some drivers who maybe just for the rest of your life are just going to look at you awkwardly and ghostly.
Right.
So, yeah, so that's that's Johnny O'Connell who tried to kill Dario Frankini as is documented in not only this episode,
but episodes that come.
And of course, the fact is one second faster.
But this is, you know, you obviously have known him for a long time.
I had a small history with him prior to doing this recording.
And yeah, we just thought it was a good one to bring out because gosh, that was that was 10 years ago now, right?
In 2016, when we recorded it, that was out in a flowery branch, Georgia, where he lives.
And it's like called Mooney's Texas barbecue where well, you tried to kill me.
That's right. Was that with the electrical outlet?
Yeah, that was the electrical outlet.
Yeah, yeah, what looked like it would have been a normal electrical outlet was apparently hardwired and almost fried our computers and Sean.
So, yeah, but we got away with one on that one.
You know, we've been doing this a long time, like you said, and this this episode, the legacy of it with the joke and all that lives on.
But what's really impressive is Johnny O'Connell lives on.
He's still racing.
Like he's currently racing McLaren's.
He's doing GT cars.
I mean, like the dude is still on it.
And, you know, he's he's one of those guys that's a big proponent of Americans in the sport.
His son, Canaan's also an American in the sport and like coming up to the ranks and doing a good job.
And so every time I see Johnny, I know I've got a buddy I'm going to talk to and I'm going to get a good little quick story out of him or I'm going to get some advice.
And he's one of these guys that like because of the show, I think our relationship is even better, you know, and so that's something that you and I are pretty proud of when it comes to these things.
So that's that's pretty neat.
And he's great for going back to the well.
In fact, he just told us or helped us learn one of the greatest stories that might never be told on this show that we just recorded on our last road trip.
So a lot of fun stuff coming down the future for dinner with racers.
But this Johnny O'Connell episode stands on its end.
And thanks again to Continental Tire for continuing to make this happen.
We got all kinds of links to click on if you're on them.
Social media's hashtags dinner with Conti, you name it.
But like Brian said, we're recording stuff as we speak.
We got several in the can.
Is that is a can still a thing?
I don't know.
Several on the card on the card.
Okay.
In the can in the can is a film term that they use when they would put it in a film can.
So now it's on a sand disk in the sand disk.
And we got a whole bunch of cool stuff coming out this winter.
So stay tuned.
But in the meantime, this is basically episode 30 recorded in October of 2016.
It is none other than Johnny O'Connell got metal tire.
Me.
Oh, all right.
We're going to start in 5432
This guy.
What's up, brother?
How are you, buddy?
I've never even been to this place.
I've made up my mind.
I've made you.
Look at you going all high tech and Harrison.
You.
All right.
Look at you being high tech.
Brian.
Welcome to my podcast, Johnny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've met Sean before, right?
I don't know.
Have we met Sean?
He's put me on the spot.
We'll talk about that.
We've met a couple of times.
The most recent encounter, despite my bachelor's degree from UCLA, I spent a lovely hour holding
up a hero card to block you from the sun.
I'm feeling nothing.
I'm up here right there.
You know, when you're in a ranger tank like me.
You turn me down a little bit.
Yeah.
So what's happening, man?
Nothing.
Yeah, nothing.
You fly out on Wednesday.
I'm on Wednesday.
Are you on the same flight?
No, I'm late.
No, yeah.
Okay.
We're going to San Jose at like 6 p.m. or something.
All right.
Well, that's decent.
Yeah.
Get a full day in.
Six and then you'll get in there about what?
Seven?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Something like that.
So let's get right into it.
Have you ever broken anybody's arms at Karate?
You know what?
I haven't, but you know what?
And you know what?
When I was doing all the martial arts stuff and I loved it.
You know, we actually competed in a couple of world championships and I think it ain't
my ex-wife though, total ninja in a previous life.
I mean, she was actually soon to be a master and we get along great and I'm very proud
of her for that.
But yeah, loved it.
I mean, it is the closest thing to the intensity of racing that I found.
But you know, when I finally got to Black Belt, you know, I lasted there for about a year
and you start working with other guys that don't have control and I started getting a
lot of arm and wrist injuries.
Sure.
Sure.
You know, sooner or later, somebody's going to rip his arm off.
I have a feeling very quickly it's going to come to an abrupt end when you're like,
like a storm is going to roll through Atlanta and every bone in his body is going to freeze
up because you're like, oh, that's the problem because arthritis is going to be a big friend
of his soon.
So you have you ever killed anybody?
Yeah.
Not that I'm aware of.
Not that I mean, I've not been even accused of it.
It was funny because I didn't even just to get back to Andy real quick, you know, great
guy.
Just to deflect from killing somebody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because that's a good thing.
Murder.
Murder is not good.
Well, you haven't met Spencer.
Yeah.
I've almost killed my kids a couple of times.
But I didn't even know Lally was training until I saw him at like Daytona and it wasn't
this year.
It might have been the year before and his ears were all mashed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm like, oh man, that guy's like.
He loves it.
He loves it.
Yeah.
We were training one day and he was doing like the 11 o'clock class and I was doing the
12 o'clock or something.
So I came in a little later and I walk in.
Everyone's like, have you seen it yet?
And I like, I don't know what you're talking about.
Like you got to look at Andy's ear and he literally had a grape sized ear lobe like
the bottom of the lobe had gotten punctured or something and it swelled to the size of
a grape and he's like, look, look, he was like so happy.
He's like proud.
He's so proud of his 40s and he can.
Yeah.
I believe he's 47.
Let me.
Yeah.
He's a held you.
I'm an honest 54.
Okay.
So he's like two years younger than you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you got a lot of cool stuff going on in your life.
The fact that your son now, Kainan is racing and now he's racing.
He's racing crazy stuff.
He's doing hill climb at Pike's Peak and a was that Lancer?
Yeah.
It's a Mitsubishi Evo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Things got crazy wings all over it and big horse power.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that place is still pretty crazy.
You make a mistake there.
That's a big, it's a big commitment.
It was funny because he and I visited about three months before he did his run up and
because I just wanted to get a visual.
I wanted to get some video for him.
Right.
He works at the Bob Bonderant School.
Right.
There's an instructor out there.
And before that he worked for Chris Cook who's a great guy, unbelievably talented driver
and instructor.
Is he the guy that does all the stock car racing?
Correct.
Sonoma.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so Kainan got to work under him a lot.
He's been funny because since he was like seven or eight years old, we've been carding
together.
Right.
All off the radar stuff.
So, a lot of this place called Lovable, which is where they have the charity.
Yeah.
That's Dennis Spencer's old go-kart chart.
Correct.
Yeah.
Correct.
Yeah.
Dennis actually gave me a key to that place years ago.
Same.
So, let's talk about that place real quick because that's like a hidden secret to North
Georgia that people would know about.
He has a shop nearby, which is the old Lovable Braw factory.
And so he takes the shop, which he has a big trench shoring company.
Yeah.
I think is what he does.
Yeah.
And he's got this, we're talking about Dennis Spencer.
He used to have a Mazda team back in the day.
Which is probably like what, 20 minutes from here?
It's not even.
Yeah.
We are literally about seven or eight minutes from that right now.
So he takes this old Lovable Braw factory.
Half of it is trench shoring stuff, a big piece of property, a big massive factory.
And then he turns half of it into a race shop, half into a carbon shop, which is a half,
literally like tenths of it.
And then he literally takes half of it and builds an indoor go-kart track, which is like
a minute 10 lap time inside.
And he went and bulk ordered something like 25 dirt cart chassis.
This is 15, 16 years ago.
And we'd go over there on Friday and we'd have Friday night fights.
And it was the Ark Angel team versus the Dennis Spencer racing team.
And the only rule was you had to bring gas.
And if you broke something, you had to fix it.
You had to pay for it because there was a shelf of parts.
He just ordered parts for go-karts.
So we'd go over there and we'd literally be slamming each other into walls and trying
to go for the winters timing and scoring.
It was like a big deal.
But that's something unique to our little world here in North Georgia because no one
would know that this guy has this amazing, in terms of go-kart track.
Oh yeah, no, it's still there.
If you drove by it, you would have no idea that there's this meget, wicked, cool go-kart
track in there.
And he utilizes it for a lot of charity events, like Petit Le Mans.
But for a lot of the local charities and the community around here, he does charity events
and a lot of things for kids.
And he's upgraded all the carts.
The carts now are fast carts.
Like road racing chassis and everything.
They're the real deal.
And I think they're all six horsepower, promote Honda for you.
There you go.
They're Honda.
We appreciate your business.
Your company makes lawn mower engines.
That's cool.
Hey, we also make jets.
There we are.
I like it though.
How's the Chevy Formula 1 program going?
That's right.
It's killing.
Anyway, getting back on track.
That place is so much fun.
He has a deal every New Year's where he brings his employees from around the country.
And he do a 10 hour Enduro.
But what's kind of fun is the last hour he'll do things like turn off the lights.
It's pitch black.
Yeah.
All you hear is like, bam.
A lot of wrecking going on.
Water down the track, which is literally hitting ice.
Oh yeah.
Where you got your ideas from for our party.
Right.
Right.
I know you're talking about.
But yeah, so getting back to Canaan, he and I burned so much fuel there.
And so he's generally developing, but it's really been in like the last year where finally
things have clicked for him.
And he's like, wow, now I know what you're talking about.
Wow, now I know what you're talking about.
But yeah, it was funny because he actually wrote America last year.
And I'm waiting for him to go up the mountain on the Tuesday on his first run.
He fell off.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He slid it.
He understeered into a ditch.
The guys spent all this time fixing it.
They got it done just in time so he could do the last part of the mountain.
But yeah, so like I am like, you know, we're on the grid.
And one of the guys on the team came up with his phone and said he made it.
And so that was that was awesome.
But then to talk to him that night, you know, and just he hear how stoked he was.
Dad, it was so cool.
Right.
I'm at the top of the mountain with Reese Mitten, Reese Millen and Paul Dahlin back.
And we're eating donuts and having a snowball fight.
So, so yeah, yeah, good stuff.
But yeah, and since then he just he gets better and better.
And we actually, he and I goofed around a couple of weeks ago in in some meadas.
And for the first time in his life, he beat me.
He was quick.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Don't tell anybody.
Yeah.
I'm not gonna get that out.
No, no, no, I'm all right.
You know what?
If there's one person you want to beat you at your kid.
Now I'm gonna that was like in a showdown and we've done it since like all the time
at lovable.
He'd do five laps.
I do five laps.
Loser does 20 pushups.
And this was the first time he made me do pushups.
Now by the end of the day, daddy did get quicker.
But you know what?
That that tiny stuff is hard to drive.
Those meadas that they have a you need a unique technique to to drive quickly.
He's how old?
He is now 22.
Oh, did his first TCB race at Utah?
And I'm just I'm smiling and cracking up as as I think about it.
And so I finish a second and he you know, you show up at the end of the year, you got
to carry the same weight as the guy who's leading the championship, which was his teammate.
And you know, that's always your objective when you have a teammate is to is to go quicker
than got that guy.
And he did a great job in a second.
But you know, I have video of him, you know, going up on the podium and like the first
time he's by a trophy girl.
You can see he's all bashful and stuff.
It was it awesome.
Good dad moment.
So along the lines of 22 year olds, one of the mutual stories that I have about you that
you confirmed for me was we have a I have a friend named Adam Merz on a guy coach.
And then you know, Lynn Wilson and Lynn and Adam, I think they either kind of grew up together
or they have some sort of friendship.
So when Adam found out I was going to World Challenge a couple of years ago, he he's like,
oh, you're going to race against Johnny O'Connell.
The story I know about that guy is that he used to ride a go kart around his college
campus to get the class.
And so you were telling me a little different variation.
It's a it's a little I like that story.
Yeah, I like that story.
But I wouldn't trust anybody with leaving a go kart outside of, you know, one of one
of the classrooms or the where was school?
But Dennis and University.
OK. And that's how I, you know, up same place.
Bobby Ray Hall went to and Bobby was pretty instrumental in helping me out really after
I won my Atlantic Championship in 87.
But the real story is that there was fraternity row on upon which there were 99 frat
houses, one of which, you know, Lynn was a part of.
He was he was a Sigma Chi.
And that's where all like the preppy guys went.
And, you know, they thought they were quite important.
All right. I was, you know, off the road.
We were the only house off the road, Delta Chi.
And we were maybe a little bit more crazy.
You know, actually, you know, remember Animal House?
So yeah, it's kind of like Animal House.
Yeah. We were not the thank you, sir.
May I have another fraternity?
But but yeah, you know what?
The reason I chose Dennis and is because they were great racing about an hour and a half,
two hours away.
I actually chose it because I could continue my go carding.
And and but yeah, now and then on on a Friday or Saturday afternoon, you know,
before I was going to go to to a race, I, you know, I'd fire up my cart and zip through
fraternity row and this, you know, this was a two stroke.
This thing called ass. Right.
And and there was one time there was a semi coming up the hill
and I passed underneath it.
So because because haven't you always wanted to try that?
Totally. Totally.
You know, and you're, you know, you're 19, 20 years old.
It's not like you're in the field with a fully developed brain at that point anyway.
And but yeah, no, he he came up to me years later.
He went on to become a really, you know, I think successful oncologist at Yale
and a great guy. And you know, there's two ways to go racing.
One is to, you know, beg, borrow, steal, be poor for a long, long time.
And if the gods shine upon you, you finally get picked up and get paid.
The other is to make a ton of money.
Right. And that those guys, I think, have a little bit more fun.
And the odds of them, you know, enjoying it are a little bit better
because there's a lot more of them.
But but yeah, no, Lynn is a great guy.
And he'll still, you know, he'll text me or call me after races
and try to get the inside scoop.
What's going on? Great guy.
Yeah, small world.
So you won the Formula Atlantic championship.
And I guess back then they used to do an East West thing.
And then the year you won the West Coast, Calvin Fish.
Calvin won the East Coast.
Won the East Coast, which a lot of people don't realize that he actually
raced very well, you know, for for quite a while against some very big names.
Who were the guys in your and your championship
on the West Coast that you were up against?
Like anybody we know now, you know, at most those guys, you know, disappeared.
They didn't they didn't last.
They're fast guys were Jan Pekas.
One really strong guy, probably the strongest of all, you know, was Jeff Krasnoff.
Yeah. But he didn't have a great season that year.
We all go through years where we have a good team, a bad team,
everything fits, everything done.
Parker Johnstone was very quick and Dean Hall.
Dean Hall was was very quick.
And but yeah, that was that was a fun year.
And it was funny because I did Super V in 1986.
And and, you know, didn't it didn't get any any wins, had had a bunch of podiums,
but had several races, I should have won and would have three times during the year.
There's there's a little tiny screw that holds the butterfly valve on
on that Volkswagen 1600.
Three times while leading had one of those little screws back out and launched
launched the motor.
So at the end of that year, you know, the guy that was sponsoring me, a great guy
named Jerry Conrad and but he's like, Listen, you know, I'm done spending money,
but take all the equipment and whatever you get for it, great.
And you can use that to go racing in 87.
And back then the budget to do Atlantic was about 170,000.
And and I had 72.
And so I took it to a great guy named Alastair McNeil.
And he he hired a guy named Ricky Cameron.
Yeah. And a lot of people will recognize that name because he's actually
the only one I know that's still really in the sport.
Then Ricky was my crew chief and we went off with a limited budget
and and won that championship.
And again, that was critical because it was at Laguna Seca
where I locked the championship up.
And, you know, Bobby Ray Hall was there.
He actually came to our banquet.
But he's like, Listen, I know you went to Denison and he made the huge mistake
of here's my card.
If there's ever anything I can do for you, I think I like waited two days.
Hey, Bobby, how you doing, man?
It's OK. But hello.
Yeah, that was a that was that was a neat deal.
But there, you know, it again, it's I've been very blessed to
to be doing it a long time and and still loving it.
You know, it you know, I got to do Le Mans again this year.
Yeah. And I ran across, you know, McNish, Alan McNish.
And, you know, again, I've known Alan since like 99.
I mean, we and I raced a bunch together, a prototype.
Sure. And I go up to him and I'm like, So, so tell me, dude,
you know, how hard is it being out of the car?
Right. That's something I can't even have them.
And he's like, I was done.
I was a tire, you know, I was hurting.
I, you know, I wasn't enjoying it.
And he's now out of the car.
He's having a great time.
And all I, you know, I was like, Dude, I got to tell you what,
I love it every bit as much as when I was 22.
Right. You know, it's the reason to wake up in the morning.
So that's the interesting thing about you to me is that when
McNish said he was done, it kind of made sense because he's,
you know, he's been busted up a few times.
And so at a certain point, you go, How much more of this can I
really take? But I mean, you've taken your share of licks over
the years and doesn't seem like that slowed you down at all.
You're not thinking about it.
I mean, have you had any of those recovery periods?
You're like, this isn't worth it anymore.
No, you know, I mean, you go you go through some times where
your body hurts.
Right. And it's funny because this goes back to when I was
driving for Corvette.
I remember going to see my doctor.
I think my back had been hurting and all that kind of stuff.
And I'm like, Hey, when I'm done driving, OK, can I stop working
out and all that kind of stuff?
And he's like, No, no, no, no, never stop working out.
And actually, there was a point there where I was considering,
you know, getting my back fixed with surgery and a great guy,
Phil Plasca. He's like, dude, 98% of the doctors in Atlanta will
be happy to cut you and I can cut you.
There's a 70 some odd percent chance you're going to feel better.
He's like, but really what you need to do is train harder, push
harder, push harder, push through the pain.
And he was right.
You know, I changed my I do a whole lot of swimming now.
And but but yeah, I mean, it's you know, it is part of the deal.
Like you said, I, you know, the big ones, the big ones I had were
the big ones.
I've never seen a race driver with on Oval's.
An Indy car and Indy lights.
Never my fault.
Always a mechanical.
And which is why I made that decision.
Man, I'm getting out of that crap.
I'm on his side.
Yeah. Never been my fault.
Yeah. I've never met a race driver who is at fault for his crash.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, no, I can't.
I can bring up mechanics.
Nobody likes you at this moment.
And I'm right now at the top of the list.
Anybody like him?
No, there are no hands in this restaurant.
But also you can you know what that you can the one, you know,
I did have a huge one in the Nissan.
No, Watkins, Glenn, that people.
You know, we were we were just watching that.
Yeah. Yeah.
People can pull that one up.
And and then I also had a big one the first year at Petit Le Mans
and in one of the panels.
We'll probably link that video on our website.
Yeah.
Dennerracers.com.
That that one was because we actually I remember seeing it live
and I was you don't want to know how young, but but I
I just watched it again on the road on the trip over here
because we were reminded of that.
So, you know, millions off sideways.
You guys you don't see him coming, obviously.
You're going up through the S's and you guys crash
and you're walking out of your car.
There's clearly a massive wreck for anybody that's coming up the hill
and you're walking along the Armco.
What it and you see a guy come at you.
All of a sudden you have to leap over the over the fence
and it seemed pretty busted up at the time.
Let me tell a story.
Oh, boy. Yes. Here we go.
Now, that was 93.
I think it was. I was 10 years old.
And, you know, and Millon, he taught me a lot.
But the guy, you know, about the out of the cockpit stuff.
And this is Rod Millon Reese's dad.
No, this is Steve Millon. Steve Millon.
OK, that's his uncle.
Yeah. Yeah. His uncle.
And taught me a lot.
Great politician out of the car and never really liked the guy, though.
And that's that's putting it mildly.
OK. And we're going to circle back to that.
That's good. Yeah. So so.
All right. This is Watkins Glen.
OK, I get my first poll.
All right. We're in the meeting before it, before the start of the race.
And we're racing against some fast guys there in Brassfield.
Wicked fast Tommy Kendall, wicked fast Paul Channelos.
He when the car was right, could be wicked fast.
And so I get my first poll.
Is it on a wet track?
And I'm like, yeah, all right, I'm going to dig.
And then morning of the race, you have the team meeting and they're like,
all right, here's what we want you to do.
We want you to give Steve the start
and then just fall in behind and protect him.
And where were you in the championship at this point?
I have no idea.
But at that part of the season, everybody's in the championship.
Yeah, right. OK.
You know, it's just that he was the designated.
He was the guy. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I could tell Nissan stories forever.
But so so I'm like, tick the start goes right now.
Brassfield. Brassfield was, you know,
people don't know Darren Brassfield.
There were weekends where Brassfield was so fast.
So the weekends, he'd be completely lost.
Well, this is one of those weekends where he's completely switched on.
So he gets by me.
He gets by milling disappears. OK.
And then Genelosi comes. He disappears.
I think Tommy was having some some issues.
I don't think he was in the fray at that point.
So so I'm on the radio. God, let me go. Let me go.
And finally, they let me go.
So I go by Steve. Genelosi.
I start catching up to Darren for stops come in
and and we have a crappy stop.
So I come out and I'm right behind milling and I'm like, can I go?
And they're like, no, no, stay there.
And and literally I was like, I was so angry in the cockpit.
And I was like, screw this, why even try?
And so I backed out and I let about two seconds, you know, gap get between us.
And then then I said to myself, and it's not uncommon to use profanity
in the car and a podcast.
And what did you say word for word?
I was like, this, you know, and and so was just like, just started digging.
Now, you know, the that's what you say.
You're right.
100 percent.
And and going up the hill, OK, you know, the right hander turned to them
through three, the left hander.
If you had the guts, you could do it flat.
And I'd been breathing.
I was like, I'm digging.
Right. All right.
So I go, I go into two, I'm full chat.
OK, up the hill, full chat.
Now milling, who had been two seconds in front of me, tangled with this cat.
OK, I don't know who is trying to pass who on the outside.
And they're both drivers right just past the crest of the hill.
So anyway, you know, I come over the top of the crest and I see milling
on the right hand side and I'm like, I know I can't lock them up
because then I'll just slide right into them.
Yeah. So and I've gone through and I've analyzed this and I did about as good.
My only move is to get the car to turn left.
But I'm I'm committed.
You know, I come up that hill, Holly.
Yeah. And so I'm doing all I can.
I can't tell.
But milling is rolling backwards.
And if you watch it again, he rolls into my path.
And that that is the first time like in a race car where like I'm
going to thought I was going to get actually scared.
Yeah. Yeah.
And no, I thought game over and and I mean, crushing.
I mean, huge, every part of my body hit.
And this was pre-horns.
So now, luckily, I was never back then a guy that kept my shoulder strap,
you know, shoulder harnesses real tight.
And so, you know, bang off the wheel and all that kind of stuff.
And and I come to a stop.
And this was so funny because Clayton Cunningham built those cars.
And there must have been four or five times during my career
at Nissan where I caught on fire and never once did the fire extinguish or work.
And so I'm, you know, I come to to stop and I'm like, you know,
trying to catch my breath.
I'm like blown away.
I'm still alive and I look and there's like fire, you know, in front of me
and there's fire on the side, not big fire, little fire.
And I'm like, crap, you got to get out of this thing.
So I start to get out and PJ Jones, OK, comes through and I'm like,
guys are still coming through here, you know.
So finally I get out.
I'm like my whole body's in shock.
Yeah. And and I'm like crawling along the guard.
Yeah. This cat comes in in a Porsche who hasn't slowed down at all.
Now, when you watch the video, OK, it looks like I am diving over the guardrail
because of his car, which, yes, it would have hit me.
OK, I'm actually diving out of the way of a wheel that he's hit
because he hit. Yeah, yeah, he's hit a wheel and that thing's coming at me.
Now, if you've ever like lifted a racing tire, they're heavy.
And back then those wheels were massive.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so that would have killed. Oh, yeah.
And so so I flip over and I'm like, you know, and then I'm like,
I'm down on the ground for about two to five minutes.
Some guys help me out.
And then I realized, holy crap, Steve's, you know, how steep.
Yeah. And he's almost dead.
He's almost dead in the car.
And so Mirac miracle that that he actually, you know, survived that one.
I went, you go back later and you look at the video
and literally had I gone another 20 feet further down the racetrack
when I were I would have dove over the guardrail
is the entry to the racetrack.
So it would have been about a 40 foot fall to the concrete below.
So, you know, that was that.
You know what?
I would moments like that make you spiritual.
Yeah. Yeah.
Now we're definitely going to link this on the website.
Yeah. So if you're listening on iTunes, that's cool.
But go to the number 3.
So why didn't you get along with millen outside?
Was it just personalities clashing or was it?
Yeah, no, he was just he was the number one.
And and most of the time I was quicker than right.
And so you had team orders and stuff like that.
There was, you know, in order for him to win the championship,
I think it was in three or four or whatever.
And I ended up finishing second, but I'm running winning at Rhode Atlanta.
And I'm like 12 seconds up on them.
And they're on the radio saying, you got to slow down.
You got to give it to him.
You got to give it to him.
And and that man, I just hate that crap.
Yeah. And and but the objective for me had been put it out.
So put it so far that they can't do it.
And then they start telling me, you're not going to make it on fuel.
You're not going to make it on fuel. Right.
So I knew it was total BS.
Right. Yeah. And but at the end of the day, they they paid my bill.
And so, right, you know, going into the last lap, I came out of came out of,
you know, turn 12 and pulled right and really, really, really slow.
Made it obvious. Yeah. Well, you know what?
Here's the deal. You do that for your teammate.
They ought to come up and recognize. Oh, yeah.
Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you.
I can, you know, I really owe you a man by your dinner or something like that.
He wouldn't even recognize it.
Yeah. Yeah. And so and he and I got into a little bit of an argument that year.
There was a race put on at Autopolis in Japan.
They flew our cars over and race there and I crushed them.
But what I like is that you're humble about.
But I just don't like it.
And wasn't clear.
But but, you know, he's like, you know, I had done an interview where I said,
yeah, no, I, you know, helped Steve win that championship.
And he came with me.
He won that championship.
Really? It's stupid Aussie accent.
Not that we have a problem with Aussies.
Just that one.
I can tell how you can see.
The anger remains, you know.
Yeah. Why did you take your shirt off? Are you OK?
I know, I know, really, so somebody else.
But and then I explained it to him and he's like, I wasn't.
I mean, it's just not a pleasant guy, but to his credit, guy could drive fast.
Yeah. I could drive fast on his day.
He was wicked fast.
And, you know, I mean, his his style was to to be ruthless in every,
you know, aspect of the game, right, which meant politically as well.
Sure. And, you know, again, he was the Nissan guy.
You know, he had that still in aftermarket part business.
So, you know, that was there.
There were a lot of things, you know, it's real funny
because my boss at the time was a guy named Frank Hanswitz.
And at the end of it was either 93 or 94.
I went back and I had a good idea as to what Steve was making.
And so I go in because I'm like, jerky, cocky little guy.
And and I'm negotiating with him and I'm going, I was faster here.
I was faster here. You know, I'm the future.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Frank was just like, listen.
The sooner you realize that this game is a lot more than just being fast,
the further you're going to go. Right.
And so I didn't get my raise.
But you know what? I mean, Frank was awesome.
He was he was a great, you know, program manager for Nissan.
And, you know, they at the time, there's also a guy named Kaz Kasner
that did MP grand MPTI.
And actually I had trans, you know, in 91,
I started doing a bunch of work for MPTI and the Group C and TPP stuff,
which was which was awesome.
You know, I was actually was going to be Jeff Rabbit and myself
that got the IndyCar program.
And the Nissan back then was looking at IndyCars.
And unfortunately, the Yen tank, the Japanese economy tank,
they got rid of the guy who was president of Nissan, Frank McNenelli.
I think it was his name and replaced him with a guy that liked that like golf.
But Frank once said to me, listen, at the start of every race,
I give you 100 percent of a race car.
Bring me back one percent just went right.
And so, you know, and Ryan, you can probably relate to this.
When you're when you're the poor guy coming up,
one of the things that you you need to develop is mechanical sympathy.
You can't abuse your crap.
You've got to be, you know, and back then you actually had to have a skill set
as a driver, as in shifting and breaking, you know, so you don't lock up tires
and good heel toe, all this stuff that really, you know, that I miss in the sport.
And but by, you know, he taught me a lot.
And, you know, those sayings like that bring back one percent.
Yeah, is the is pretty, you know, stuck with me.
One I want to go down the road of personalities with the people
that you've gotten to drive with and things like that.
But I got to hear about and I know our listeners would want to hear about.
Tell us how bad asset 300 ZX twin turbo car was to drive.
750 horsepower.
You guys, that was a car staple of my childhood.
Like I love 935 Porsches, the Nissan GTP cars, as well as the GT cars.
Like, you know, that was part of the deal for IMSA back then.
You guys were like one of the superstar cars.
And everyone wants to know how cool those cars were to drive.
I'm sure you get asked that a lot still in your career.
So cool.
I mean, just to have that kind of power and, you know, that was a 2.8
liter twin turbo V6.
700 and ten foot pounds of torque.
Nice. If people if people know race tracks, you know, at
Firebird Raceway, where Bondron is, there's a place called the West Track.
And you get up to, you know, fourth.
Yeah, I think it was just fourth gear.
It's a tiny little place.
But you'd be wheel spinning all the way to the breaking zone.
It was dude, it was so cool.
And but a really tricky car to drive.
You know, Yokohama had built a special tire for that car, really high profile tire.
And and that kind of that that helped you manage things a little bit.
But you get guys in there that you would swear were
top guys, Jeff Brabham drove it.
Yeah, couldn't figure it out.
Really couldn't figure it out.
And but but, you know, once you figured it out
and once you could learn that to anticipate the boost man, that thing went.
And it was so cool back then because, you know, you didn't have, you know,
the traction control, you didn't have ABS, it was still normal shifting.
And and actually I want to say it was 94 95 when we were running, you know,
all the guys were back in formula one back then, Mansell and Santa.
And you'd watch them on TV and all the titanium sparks are are flying.
And and so we would run titanium buttons and Oldsmobile was running titanium
Ford was and and I'll never forget, you know, at
Rotoland this was before 10.
This was old Rotoland when you would come out of seven and you had the dip.
The dip. Yeah.
We're like at a buck 90 there.
Right. This car.
And I remember following Darren Brassfield and I'm just like a car length off him,
you know, and we go through the dip, you know, on the first several laps, full tanks,
you know, tire pressures aren't all the way up and just sparks, sparks, dude.
Like you wouldn't believe.
I mean, it's like glowing, your windshield glowing and and and we're thinking,
this is so cool.
You know, so yeah, that was fun.
That was a that was a magical time.
But yeah, hard car to drive.
I got very lucky, you know, because at that time,
Nissan had sold one of the older cars to to a team in Costa Rica.
And so they there was actually a Central American championship back then.
And so I was flying down to Central America, to Costa Rica, Venezuela,
Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, doing this championship.
And one of my best wins, one of my best memories is that Costa Rica
and they got a little racetrack outside.
It's actually pretty cool.
And but safety standards, dude.
It's not.
Just going down.
There's like a back straightaway where it was lined with trees.
Well, yeah. Yeah.
Because the hospitals are so good in Costa Rica.
And but this is a while ago, too.
I think this would have been 9093 or 94
And but they had a huge crowd show up in the and the car dealer.
They can see him there standing by the track.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
That was Panama.
That was Panama at the airport where they kept the crowd
away from the racetrack with barbed wire.
Oh, my God.
Which means keeps you from them from
That was one of those races where the car we actually broke a Panama I was like thank God I think broke
And when it part when it broke normally you pulled to the inside of the circuit because if you do that the team can get to it
Okay, I intentionally right on the outside of the circuit. Don't fix this thing ever wants to see this right by the
Marlboro display where there are pretty girls in beer
But anyway, so we we go on and we win this race in Costa Rica, right?
It's a cool on lap and I'm going through this one corner is one of the last corner on the racetrack
And it was all Toyota there had to been like, you know two or 3000 people, you know
In this Toyota section and they started throwing beer bottles
This is so cool
That's cool, I didn't realize there was races down there back then outside of like a WC type of thing
Yeah, you did Indy cars for a brief period of time that would have been right around after that, right?
96 at 96 yeah, they started the IRL yeah, I'd always wanted to
In the late 80s Ray Hall got me a test with Paul Stewart Jackie Stewart and all that kind of stuff went over there
Smoked their guys couldn't get the money love it. I love it. She's so humble
Oh, but he's right. He's right
Actually, you know it tested against cool Tard DeFerrin and Mika Salo had them all by a second and with Bobby Ray Hall
And Jackie Stewart trying to find money we couldn't find the money. Yeah, it's pretty impressive deal, but
But yeah, no, so yeah, did they at the end of the Nissan deal?
What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? And so the team scraped up money?
I scraped up some money and some sponsors and you know, we did the first three races of the IRL and I'll tell you this
This is my first thoughts remember the first race was at Disney World. Yeah, there's a Reinhardt 95 Reinhardt
Cosworth engine and I'm in and like
Pulling out of the pit lane and all I could think was I can't believe I don't get to road races thing right right cuz the car
So cool. Yeah, yeah, it would have been awesome
You know, I mean ovals ovals are great and there are a lot of people that like ovals if your car's right. It's easy
Yeah, it's easy and you know that here
We actually went to the if you remember it was a three-race championship first one. Yep, there was
Disney finished 10th Phoenix. I finished third
And went to Indy and we didn't have the money to run Indy. So, you know
The you got to do your rookie orientation. That's the least amount of time you can do that in is 40 laps
We did it in 40 laps and
And then we sat we sat. Yeah, and
finally, you know
You know, we had to do some running and I went into qualifying for the Indy 500 having done 120 laps there
Yeah, and
Now most guys before qualifying are over a thousand right, right?
You know, they they they too, especially at that time when you had days and of practice
Yeah, and literally every day and this is no lie
You'd show up and you're wondering man. Am I going to Methodist? Right?
The day that I qualified
Was a day Scotty Brayton got killed. Oh, wow
And I was the last one, you know, I left at 5 59 gun went off at 6 and but got in the show
And you'll remember that year was the year, you know, again, it was the RL cart split and then all the all the you know
The officials are like Jess, you know, we need a clean start. We need a clean start
We need a clean start and I'm starting 29th and actually, you know inside of me is for
What was
The legs from in the legs for me in the legs. Yeah, but I woke up that morning and I'm thinking to myself
Okay, out of 33 guys here. There's probably about 25 that are gonna take it easy. Yeah, and I wasn't gonna be one of those guys
because I knew
You know, cuz I'm like, I know if I go I'm gonna get a ton of position
So even before the first stop, okay before our first stop, I'd moved up to eight
Nice
Right, I'm still running slower than the fast guys which was lion dyke and buddy was here
And there were other guys that were really hooked up again on an oval if your car is right
It's easy. Yeah, easy my car went right, but then at the first stop, we know we lost a fuel pump and it was game over
And then went back the next year
You know trying to beg borrow, you know, get into a car and that was the year Scott Sharp driving for Foy
Was he had two wrecks on his own? Yeah
They deemed him unfit and so AJ was like, you know, John, I want to put you in the car
Oh, that's how's a pretty crappy Texas accent. Let's hear another one. Yeah. I was in Texas
AJ Foyt, so
but
so
you know get in the car and
In 32 laps, okay
Was third quickest on the day and literally the racetrack had gone from a place that was wicked scary to where like oh my god
This is fun. Yeah, and I and I'm like I got a car
I can win the Indy 500 and came off turn four got on the radio and said guys
We got a really great car went into turn one and oil fitting broke
360 and this was my oil and feet first
Into the wall visor open shrapnel and fire, you know burns my face and and I remember I came to a stop
Right and the great thing about wrecking at Indy man. They're there in like five seconds. Yeah
You know, I'm like
I'm like what happened and then the guy goes you wrecked and I'm like
I wanted to know was it a gust of wind right?
So yeah, so then you know, they take you to the infield hospital and and
I actually got a I got taken to the infield hospital a couple times on ovals first thing they do is they cut off your clothes
You know they cut your suit off
You're like, you know, you're dingy and I remember hearing the nurse say wow
But
Ladies guys
But so so but I remember it Andy looking down at my left foot and
And I mean I'm in like agony agony and and they won't get any drugs, you know until they really
What is you know, how damaged are you?
Right, but looking, you know when they cut my boots off and stuff and looking at my foot and my ankle was right
But my toes were backwards. So I spun my foot in the shoe up and around
Yeah, so like where my big toe is where my little toe it was
So I again, I took that upon myself as a good time to go to sleep and
And I remember just you know what they rather than give me a helicopter ride
They put me in an ambulance because it's only like a 15 20-minute ride to Methodist. Yeah, and
and
There's so many funny stories I can tell about this but
But that road stinks, I mean every single bump and they finally get me in and I'm like give me demo
I'll give me demo all and
And finally I remember that give me demo all then I wake up and I'm in my room
And again if there's a place to wreck it's Indy because if you're a driver
They put you in a suite with with a waiting room and all that kind of stuff in the nurses
They take care of you. Yeah, but we're always disappointed for it never stopped by
Never yeah, yeah, never you would have thought he'd been like a you know, John. I'm sorry. Yeah, you know, and then they then you know
After you know after you know, I start to he is like listen, you know that one your fault, you know
You show up next year. We're gonna get you in the 500 and
so go there and 98 and
My age a you told me, you know, you know your handshake man
Yeah, you know that you put me in a car. Well, you know, I got Billy running good and Kenny's running good
I just don't think we can do it. So yeah, so kind of you know in an age a up to that point had been one of my childhood heroes, right?
Wasn't so much after that. Yeah, so you know it happens, you know so 98
That's when you kind of came into my world because my dad helped on Panos launched the Panos US program. Yeah, and in
96
97 yes, so 96 they ran the first car in US
RRC or whatever it was and it was Doc Monday and Andy Wallace and then 97 we switched to the two-car team with the Vistion colors and
you were in one of them and
Eric Bernard was there Andy Wallace David Bradlum all sorts of really great guys Eric Bernard was awesome
Yeah, yeah, because he could speak perfect English
He's French for those that know him. Yeah, but whenever there was a pretty girl around dude the accent turned it on
I am sorry my English is she's not so good
That was the smoothest Frenchman I ever knew and he could drive it
Yeah, you know what it was a an awesome time because I know there are a lot of you know
mostly it's British guys that don't like them, but
Tony Dow yeah
Was running the team. Yeah, that is one of the most committed guys to winning
Oh, yeah, very much so and you know you'd walk walk into the shop on like a Tuesday
And he'd look at you and he'd rub his hands together
You know hey with this like you know ten-year-old boy look and you knew that he was up to something
Yeah to get you something and Tony didn't like me at first. You know, it was actually done. It was actually in
and
98 okay when I'm trying to get the you know deal with Foyte and
And Don wants me in one of his cars for Le Mans, so they had to kick one of their guys out and
So
Then my teammates and they put me on the French team okay with Eric and guy named Chris Christophe Tinsu
Tinsu yep, and
And it's a French team which is hilarious to think of Eric Bernard Christophe Tinsu Johnny O'Connor
Yeah, all French mechanics. Oh, yeah French everything
Yeah, yeah, one of those moments. I studied French. Okay, I was younger. I can speak French, which is a big I didn't I didn't let them know that
Oh, yeah, yeah, and
So so Tony doesn't want me in his car, you know, he wanted British guys and maybe a row boy
Zell was one brab them and Wallace I can't remember that yeah
But they don't put me in the car
Until 11 o'clock there's an hour left to go they put me out of dark and
I wind up going faster than Eric and Christophe and
By bye. I want to say it was like a second second and a half and I get out of the car and then
Jean-Paul Trio he was the the program manager. I think he still runs dance. Yeah, he does
And he comes up Johnny you are so good. We are so proud you're about to this team
He hadn't said two words for that. Yeah. Yeah, and then then the best thing was Tony down come on
I'm saying I don't know what they're so excited about. I know you do it
The great thing about Tony now once you show to him you could do the job. Yeah, you are his boy
That's right. And so so yeah, we had we we had a had a good run, you know, there you there were years there where
We could have won. Yeah, we could have won when especially when Robert Yates was Bill the
Was that was a killer year, but some great stories, you know, it also huge opportunity
You know if you you know fans remember in 2000 Mario and ready was part of the team
That's right, and he was teamed with Brabham and that's when they had gone into an LMP one car
correct, you know, correct. That's correct. It was an LMP one car and
And so to get to be teamed with my and ready amazing pretty cool. Well, we the first time he gets in the car
It's a road Atlanta at slag up. It's December or something like that
And I go and and I'm running and I'm doing 11s like 11 to 11 3
Which is currently faster than like everything that ran a petit le mâtre. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah a lot
This was a fast car. Yeah, so Mario gets in the car and the first day are running
he's like in the 16s and
I'm like, it's Mario and try to you. Yeah. Give him a minute. Yeah, yeah in the car for a while. Well the next morning, okay
are the
the manager for the team the chief engineer guy named Chris Gordon great guy brilliant guy and
He's like Johnny do me a favor take Mario around the racetrack and show him what you're doing. I'm like
I'm not taking Mario
I get Mario and in my I had a crappy little pickup truck at the time because I
We're going around and I just remember leaving pit lane and I'm like, man, I got Mario
You want to ask him for an autograph? You're supposed to tell him what you're doing, right?
and
And so I'm like, you know Mario
I got I got to tell you this is truly embarrassing and humbly informed me
But this is what I'm doing and he was very cool about it. Yeah
And he you know that by the end of the day he'd worked out, you know to like the 14 some stuff
Sure hard car to drive hard car. Now, you know, I mean a big commitment
Big commitment and Ronald Landers not an easy place
But that did not turn out to be that that year at Le Mans. I was having a riot. Yes, you know
The my teammate at the time heroki kato. He's about 115 pounds Japanese. Yeah, so can wet
And he and I are shared like a little cubicle to sleep in and and at the start of the race now
You got have you ever seen a really skinny guy in his underwear is funny looking?
Oh
So so
Heroki's got his own can I just commend you on every way you start a story is unbelievable
That's gonna be the title for this one. Have you ever seen a skinny guy in his underwear?
It's funny look at
Bigger than a skinny Asian guy. It's even funny
And so he's got his own therapist from Japan, right?
And so I go in like after like my you know first in or I'm about to start my second and you know, heroki's
you know getting massaged and
And the guy's putting medicated tape on his neck and shoulders, right?
I'm like, what is that? He's like, ah, especially on Japanese magic tape make you feel better
I'm like, well, give me some of that crap. So, you know, I put it on my shoulders
And it helped keep you loose and all that good stuff. Well, I'm having a great Le Mans
I mean that if you had for drivers that haven't been there drivers that have been there, man
It's like it's magical. I mean it is the it is so cool and
So I I do that the stint you want there's that morning stint right
Yeah, it's coming up man because it's super quick
And so I do I did was doing like a double or tripper triple killer lap times
We're smoking Brava Magnuson and Andretti, you know
Well, we were running fifth and which is where we wound up finishing but I remember getting out of my car
And I'm going back and I'm just I mean it's like 8 30 in the morning and I'm so stoked and and loving life
And I'm walking back
to
You know our little area where where we're sleeping and all that kind of stuff and I walked by Mario
I'm like, hey Mario having fun and he's like he said f and wonderful
Wait wait, so you didn't you censored that well, there's Mario and ready. Yeah
I
What's going on there? Well, he'd had a big off in Indy. Okay. Yeah
I brought it in but you know, that was I mean he was just having a hard time finding the pace anyway
so I go into our little trailer thing and
Herokies there and he's like a mummy's got Matt Japanese magic tape all over his body, right?
And I'm like, yeah, I wrote you now you doing and he's like, oh
Johnny son, I don't think I can get in anymore
But you have these these funny visuals of
That was that was a fun them all that was fun as that what sets you up for the Corvette programs that get you
You know what? I could see what was going on at Panos and that Don was pulling away from the racing and putting more and investing more
in the race series, but I
Could see what was going on and every year, you know
Don would bring in a different team manager. He let go of Tony Dow. He let he brought in another British guy
So I was not happy and I called up Doug Fian
Corvette was just starting to to appear on the scene and I could see some things going on and
In my kind of jerky way
I got his phone number from Marnie Lincoln
And she worked at Rotolanna at the time
And I was like and literally I got his voicemail and I'm like Doug, you know
This is Johnny O'Connell calling you might remember me from those days when I used to beat up on you in the Nissan
This is this is here from you. Yeah
This is almost verbatim. Yeah, how to get a job
Hey kids out there. Yeah, and literally and I was like hey, listen if your dance card isn't filled for next year
I'd love to talk to you. Okay
Literally got a call back from them eight hours later saying let's do something and they were I was just hired to do the long races. Yeah
We did for a very first race Daytona
The Earnhardt's
2001 that's my first race as a mechanic. Oh, no way. Yeah, it's my first race in the my my career started there. That was pretty cool
Yeah
So like I've been racing 17 18 years and you're just starting wonderful. Yeah
As a mechanic
Give me a couple years start driving. There you go. Well, it's playing off for you and so I
Very first race with them. We win Daytona overall. Yeah, yeah
And you know what I mean one of the you know rocking chair equity is a great way to refer to it
Not many guys can say that they have drafted with big E at Daytona
And I remember we know we were running faster. He was still you know, and he was a great guy
He was like Johnny anything you can tell me about my technique help me get better. Yeah, you love that
And but I remember liking my first stint coming around and then to lap them
we
You know you look you even had data back then and
For some reason another he and little E would come through okay onto the banking in a turn one and
By the time they got to the breaking zone for the first she came in the chicane wasn't the stupid chicane
They have now is the old bus stop really had a good rhythm to it. Yeah that they should change it back to absolutely
but
But they would be faster and you're like what are they doing because you know what math tells me if I exit this corner faster
By the end of the straight away. I'm gonna be faster
You're one working in that case and none of us could figure it out
But it was both big E and little E and there was the same thing coming out of the bus stop
They'd have they'd be faster to start finish and so rather than go buy him
I'm like I'm gonna follow you for two laps so you can show me so I learned what he was doing
But I remember dude clear as a bell like coming out of the the old bus stop and I'm like tucked up underneath them
I'd never seen a shift like come on. Okay till that time
Before stark finish, you know that might my lights on I'm getting right on the tickling the rev limiter
And and I was like men is cool seeing I've ever done right behind big E. Yeah, you know, yeah
Then you know, I I remember, you know, I passed him on the the exit going in the oval turn one
I can't remember what number corner that is six maybe and
And gave him a wave as I went by so
But that was that was man and then we went on to win that and then if you remember Chris Knifle was gonna be fellows teaming
Yeah, you're Chris. He was offered the job as chief steward for cart. Yeah, and he took that VN was like
You're our boy. Yeah, so and then the rest is history just went on and
Teamed with Ron and had great success with him. Yeah, and you guys obviously probably formed a friendship because you were teamed up for so long together
Yeah
It was it was fellows and then obviously you were teamed up with Andy Pilgrim for a long time
Yeah, different forms racing. Those are the guys that probably you probably you still keep up with those guys
Yeah, yeah, all the all you know Ron actually, you know as was staying at the house
Yeah over for petite because you guys spent so much time together because not only you have a really busy testing
Yeah, and racing schedule, but Corvette does a ton of PR and they really utilize their drivers is like hey
we're selling cars and you and and
Yeah, Ron are probably at the time their target demographic for who they're selling it to oh, yeah
You know, I mean North American guys that are in their 30s to 40s that race cars and can have a beer with the afterwards
Oh, yeah, well now I think you know and again back then you could be really
close to
to the fans they weren't intrusive and
In all that kind of stuff and I've always felt that you know
It is very important for us as as ambassadors to the sport to grow the sport do all you can for the fans
Yeah, make it make it approachable
You don't need to be arrogant and there's a lot of guys out there that are why we created this
Yeah, well, I mean one of the greatest things, you know again Don Panos is for a guy that wasn't a racing guy
Remember what ALMS was ALMS for the fans and that's that I think has so much to do
You know when you go to an MSA race now and you see all those fans on the grid walking
Yeah, that that started with yeah the American Alamos never been done before that but
but yeah, so they'll had a great first year at Corvette and
Again, you know you'll as a factory driver. You'll appreciate this in the offseason the way the rules wore in 2001
that guy that qualified was of
Would get a point
Yeah, so I was I went into 2000. I'm a driver. I want to win the championship
Yeah, and so in the offseason I negotiated with the teammate listen, you know what I I wouldn't run for this championship
I know Ron's my teammate and he wants to run for the championship and
And I'm like, but you know what I need to have that same fair share shot
and
We
And they're like, okay. No, that's that's fair deal
You know whoever gets the most polls and all that kind of stuff can get it
We get to see bring and that week him to
Changes the rules. Okay, so that there's an extra point, you know, they they stopped the point for qualifying
Yeah, but an extra point to whichever driver was in the car the longest
And now in hindsight, I should have addressed it before the race. Yeah, so so we go out and
And we're gonna win this thing
Okay, they pull Ron out at like 730. I'm supposed to be in to the end. Okay
I'm the only guy that's one there. I'd won three times there already. Yeah, you want seeming like seven times
Eight
But that's not part of the story so I'm in the car and I'm like and I'm hitting my marks, you know
And my eyes are adjusted and everything is right. I got the rhythm. I know what I need to do. I'm hitting my lap time
Yes, and
With about you know, I do my last stop. I know it's my last stop and
And then after about like 10-15 minutes later, they say pit this lap
What are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean I take this thing home and
They're like no pit this lap and and I realized they're yanking me so Ron can get
Yeah, get the point because they've made this decision
He's gonna be the champ. He's the guy. He's gonna be the champ
And I you know what? I don't fault them for that what I fault them for is not taking me aside before saying listen
I know this was your deal. Here's the deal and all that kind of crap. I
Get out of the car dude. I'm on fire. Yeah, I am so this is this actually turns into a really cool story even better story
so so
so I get out of the car, right and
I'm dude. I'm like
Crazy Irish redhead on fire. Yeah, and Doug Feehan and herb fishel
To top guy herb fishel was the big dog at GM at the time. They're sitting in
Chairs, you know at the back of the the Seabed garage and I get out man. I'm like just want you both to know that the car is
Effing good, you know
And but I mean they could tell I'm like crazy wacko
Yeah, and then I and the same girls guy named Gary Claudio
They all see me get out now. We're gonna win the race, but I'm something's wrong
Do you know and I go back to the transporter and I think I broke a locker too by punching it
I mean I was so angry good
And the reason being is you put so much into the offseason with your training and your visualization and all that kind of stuff
We go we get up on the podium and all that kind of stuff and
Then Robin Pratt god lover. She's like hey you won settle down
You want
So the next day driving back to
Flowery branch from Seabring I realized well that was probably pretty stupid
Topic zx see you got completely psycho and mental and so I call it fian listen
I'm sorry, you know it but was wrong to pull me out of the car and you know and all this kind of stuff all
The things you told me and he's like listen don't worry about it
All that kind of stuff and and do the same with Claudio and Gary Pratt
I go through the line and her official I leave a met now herb is the guy
He's right. He's getting big time. He's the guy that can you know, they can all fire me, but he's really good
He can fire everyone. Yeah, yeah, so I call them. I don't get a call back
You know Monday goes by start shake
By Wednesday, you know, I'm writing a list of teams that I'm
I'm Friday shows up and he's like Johnny. How are you doing? I'm like good herb
He's he was from like South Carolina or North Carolina. I say how's flowery branch. I love flowery branch
He starts going into like a five-minute talk about flowery branch
How much he loves it how he had one of the best meals of his life at a restaurant here, which is where we are now
Yeah
Clearly
It's a fine boon farm for you sir everybody love a boon farm at one point in their life
And so finally, you know what and this this is this is a guy that gets it. Yeah, this is when I was a dig this team
I dig GM. Yeah, I called you back. Oh, well, he called me. He doesn't have to you didn't have to call it
And we're talking he's like well herb listen. I just wanted to apologize
I know I was really intense and angry and and all that kind of stuff
You know when they got out of the car, I was just pissed off you guys shouldn't have pulled me out of the car
I had the rhythm. I won that race before it was John Rice's our engine builders last race
I wanted to send him out with a win. It was a mistake and he's like I'll tell you what Johnny
It's when you don't get pissed off that when we pull you out of a car that we're not interested in you
You're doing a great job the right. Yeah. Yeah, so I was like, all right, cool. Yeah, and so, you know, I think Ron
You know got wind actually
I know he got wind that I was unhappy because I remember us we were racing at Sonoma and
And it was just a stupid rule. You know if it's with a guy yeah all year long 5050 right
You both get we should be the champion
But Ron, you know Ron has got is a crazy amount of integrity really great guy
And but he pulled me aside, you know, we had a bus back then and at Sonoma's like listen
I know you've got my back this year next year. Okay, we'll switch the tables so you can be the champion
I was like, all right, and that was cool because that's you know it again
It he recognized your oh, yeah, you didn't want to just be like hey, he didn't want to be milling
Exactly. He wasn't milling. He did the right thing. So we go on and then Ron, you know wins the championship that year and
Very very cool
We so we win the championship the next year
He and I are winning the championship again and we go to race at Laguna and
He and his wife Linda had gone out and bought me the same a replica of the championship ring that he received
So so even though I can't legit it. I mean
In my mind I was
2002
It's not in the record books or whatever but but that was to me that was one of the coolest things any teammate
Could ever do and since that point, you know, you know, we we had a great, you know great run 56 years together
Yeah, you've rent. Yeah, like half a dozen times already
You've you've referenced how the cars today with driver aids
Yeah, and all the stuff that don't match what you drove. Yeah in the 80s and 90s
I mean to exactly that point stupid rules that we just talked about driver aids
We're you know, we've I've read a few of your blogs or even critical of
Some of the younger guys driving the world challenge what not I mean, where do you see the sport going right now?
Where are things going? I don't know. It seems like everybody wants a trophy every single time, right? I think that's wrong. Yeah, you know
You know back when I drove for Nissan if we built a better car
We'd win eight out of ten races and we deserve to win it because we had done our homework, you know people keep watching F1
Yeah, same two cars are winning every weekend. Exactly. People keep watching cars keep showing up it
One of the one of the best things and this man. I wish this is how it was, you know Corvette first competed at Le Mans 2000
Okay, they got there. They got it handed to them. Yeah by by Viper, okay?
Month or so goes by they fly over to have a meeting with the ACO and they're like listen
You know, this is the data shows that we're three mile an hour down on the straightaway
We're breaking in there showing all the data and they're like, okay, we need we want a
Different profile wing. We want louvers ask all the stuff and and to their credit
The ACO is like no, you must build a better car
Wow, yeah, what a novel idea. So what a Corvette do they went back they fix their stuff
They got everything better. We went back in 2001 and wanted and so I wish it was more like that
I mean there it's funny and it is as relevant because you know
Particularly with Ryan being the factory actor accurate guy
Accuracy displays your new car
Mid-Ohio stunning. Yeah, beautiful sexy car and everybody
And oh, they're gonna kill everybody. No, they're not
They're not guys. You know what they're gonna if they go out and they go fast. What are they gonna do?
Well, they're not gonna make the rest of us up our game. They're just gonna dumb them down. Yeah, so it is it is
That's what I hate. So
It you know, I mean that part of the sport is very frustrating. You really and the reason being I think fans get ripped off. Oh, yeah, because it
very much has the appearance that
Victories and championships aren't one on the racetrack. They're one in the boardroom. Yeah, or in a rulebook. Yeah, or
The thing that's frustrating. It's not even the rulebook. It's like dude, whether it's ALMS or world challenge
Before the last race of the season. They're still tweaking cars. Yeah
What's up with that dude? I'm not like a rocket scientist, but you know you go to to to
Barbara you had a
McLaren factory with Peret. Yeah, Cooper me in Cadillacs and Patrick along in a Porsche finished the race within
Two seconds completely green racer. Okay, Patrick was the fastest
He actually got held up behind his his his teammates. So I had that race going on
They Porsche would have been won you didn't need to tweak with things
Well at that point right there and you're 34 races into the season
What did you need to do? Well, you needed to look at the Acura give them a little bit get look at the Bentley
Give them a little bit look at the Nissan give them a little bit. All right now. We're closer
I mean the concept of BOP works to a degree if you're not tweaking it because there's gonna be a track
That's gonna suit the Acura road America. Yeah, okay, you know places like that. There's gonna be a track that
The series gave us help that we could because it's a home. You didn't read that on the internet. Oh, yeah
The series let us win that one dude. It's my lunch. I gotta say something nice
But you know, it's he that's just that's just it that again
That's the perception that fans have at the way things are being played right right what fans don't know
And I know it because I pay attention is that you guys have been testing and Acura
Became more involved in your program as the season went along. So of course you're gonna get stronger. Yeah
So that was not a gift that was that was well or that that actually is my was my
Worst weekend because that that was that was a race where I oh, yeah, man that killed me but for that
I think I'd be leading points, but anyway, we did we digress
It's a very, you know frustrating deal because I'm not a rocket scientist
But I guarantee I can get these cars, you know close and then what happens is we go to a racetrack
That's gonna suit his car and he's gonna win and then we're gonna go to to a track with tight corners and the McLaren or the
For sure the engine in the back is gonna win and the fans get rewarded that way
So it yeah, again, that's just my my two sets of philosophy
But I've you know been doing this game longer than anybody that is making the decisions up high
You know, you know, there's not a person at Pirelli world challenge at any level that has you know
I've been doing this 30 years professionally now, so you know, I wish you wish they you know
Would now and then call me just to run something by me, but my phone never rings. All right kind of switching gears a little bit
You ever any missed opportunities like in your career like did you ever get like a big test for somebody that we would never have known because
This is pre-social media or you know, you weren't allowed to say anything at the times five years ago or whatever
But like did you ever test for like a Bill Riley or somebody or a GTP team?
And it just like now we went a different direction and it's twice, okay?
Most people don't know that I tested for Jackie Stewart Paul right at Thruxton
And what kind of car was that that was a Formula 3 car okay?
Thruxton and
And and I remember it was so cool because I got back to the States. I went to Laguna Bobby was there
And going up to me was like dude way to go
He was really really stoked because he put his reputation on the line with Jackie Stewart
And and so we made that happen unfortunate. We didn't get the money right but but I had at that stage
I was all I want to be an F1. I want to be an F1 and had we been maybe what happened
Who knows but but the other is and this is kind of cool. This is almost like I don't know
Are the you or viewers believe in destiny or that God's got a path for us or whatever
but at that time I'd been living in Northern, California is 1991 and
And and I'd been you know keeping myself fresh driving by working at the Bondar on school
They had the five-liter Mustangs you get to work drive Sears point four days a week and and
And man me and Chris Cook we'd go out every day and burn fuel
Yeah, just work on technique and and I mean it was like Top Gun
Every single day well the school moves down to Arizona and might be in a redhead. I'm like
And it's a desert that place what's up
Like put a fork in the microwave. Yeah, and I'm living with my girlfriend who would then become my wife
And I did a ride-and-drive program now
I'm living in like by and Sonoma and for me to spend a 150000 dollars
I could get a one bedroom condo in that area at that time
so I do a ride-and-drive program for Nissan and
You know just and this is like a 90 and I pick up a real estate guy and
For a 150000 dollars you could get a four bedroom home brand new on a golf course right and so I'm like
That's pretty good
And then and I've gone a couple months without being in a car and finally I like let's move to Phoenix and so
So we've moved to Phoenix and I go back to work for Bob
no lie. I'm there two weeks and
on the East track
Yeah, no, excuse me the West track I pull in one morning and NPT I is there with two transporters
okay, and Brabham's running and Bob Earl's running and
And who else I think lion dyke was there as well and so I go over at lunchtime
Just to kiss ass, you know, it's what your young guy you got to do
You don't do that anymore, right? I still do
And
You always you know what make people love you and so I go over there and I'm talking to one of the mechanics
It's like hey, dude Brabham's got to leave early tomorrow. Do you want to finish his work? I'm like you're kidding me
Yeah, now this is like remember the NPT I yeah, he'd be car. Yeah
Yeah, yeah, and
I'm like, yeah, it's like well Kaz Kaz Kazner who is the head of NPT I had been wanting to put me in the car
So so I you know I watch you know what Jeff is doing
Where he's breaking I know how to hit an apex right, but it's knowing okay. We're to break listen to what gear and
Next you know next day go out and
1520 laps and like half a second off of where Brabham is which is faster than Bob Earl light dyke had gone
Yeah, and and that was when I became full-time desan
Yeah, so so that was most people don't know so if you didn't get hooked up with that real estate guy to convince you
Hey, it's not so bad living down there. Oh, yeah, you probably don't go to Phoenix. You probably don't get in that opportunity
Oh, yeah, crazy how that stuff works. Yeah, yeah at the time. I've been living no lie in a converted one-car garage
I had
The garage, you know the slady had put up some drywall and put in a bathroom and a microwave out in the garage
And that's how I was living 27 28 years old so especially at that age when you're really kind of thinking about where am I going with things?
What was the moment where you went? Oh, you know what? I'm gonna make it in terms of this is going to be a profession for you
well, no, I had you know, it's funny because
You got to go back further. You know I graduated college in 84, but you know got right out of college
I got hired by the Gallo wine company that got me out to LA where I'd won a scholarship for the Jim Russell school
Okay, one my first championship in 84 the Jim Russell school championship
Put away 3000 dollars
Okay, while I was working at Gallo and living really not far out from the slums of Riverside, California
But had to make a decision, you know
Do I want to be a tie guy and be a businessman or do I want to be a race car driver?
And I decided you know what I don't want to be 30 and look back and say if only you had tried right and so
So yeah, literally lived like in the ghettos of Riverside for another year because at that time for Jim Russell if you work for free
They'd let you raise yeah mechanics training program
Yeah, and I lasted about 22 months as a mechanic
Before they realized he's a really crappy
And they moved me to the front office because I was good at talking to people
right and and so I'd answer phones and talk to you know working sales and
And
So that was yeah, that was that was a pretty amazing time
You know you spent a lot of years being poor
But they you know what they were also some of my most right fun years ever because you learn where all the happy hours are
You know
Learn how to make a dollar last and you know what the funny thing because you eat for free at happy hour
People don't know that there's a place called the bullet mouth
Bullen mouth bullet mouth 75 cent beer
Probably not 75 cents anymore. Yeah, but and actually a very cool
Mike my roommate at the time was a guy named Andy slanker. He was an engineering student
Okay, he went on to work for Ford which for whom he still works
He has run their NASCAR racing division, but he's the guy that
Invented or penned up and engineered the the lightning truck. Okay. Yeah, and all anything really high-end sports car type stuff
Pretty cool, so it's nice that he's he went his direction. Yeah, that was successful. Yeah
So you and I have a funny at least it's funny to me
Like get to know each other story over the last two years since I moved to world challenge
And there was a situation with a person that worked for the series that was accusing you of causing a pretty big incident at Long Beach
And I was oh bobey
That was a biggest
That was a biggest
How do you
Just the overview of case anybody didn't watch world challenge last year at Long Beach
I'm running like fifth or six and you guys are I think first second third as it's Beretta me the Nestra
Yeah, and there'd been a wreck at the start on the restart, you know first lap, you know, you know, I make it an
Amazingly, no, it's a great move. I'm that was actually a really sweet move. Yeah, he lost two spots in what corner?
It was extra follows me through the corner and I go in the turn eight
Okay, now I know these cats are you know behind me and they're they're fighting. I'm leading
I can turn into that corner whenever I want I turned in maybe two or three feet early
Okay, extra being a professional is like I see what he's doing and I'm gonna follow him through the line
Beretta because he's a psychopath
Okay, goes barely and into extra who then goes barely and into me both our he extra night. Yeah races are over
Beretta who caused the entire thing goes on and wins the race. Yeah, I
Get no points. Okay, but worst of all I get the highest fine of every all three of us
Yeah, all three of us right now is totally Scott pove not wanting Johnny O'Connor to win another championship or not liking count Cadillac or whatever
Dude, I
That was that was bad. So
So I'm like fifth or something
Yeah, I don't even know how that's possible
And I think about it because we weren't very strong there last year
But anyways, so we're like p5 ish when that incident goes on
So all I really see is like the three of you coming together
Yeah, and clouds of carbon going up and I'm just like checking up and and I get through it and that's it
That's my whole thing of it
And so I'm one of like three cars that didn't get a fine for that race
Like PD got one, you know, like he got rear-ended and got a fine. I was like what's going on? So
The next race is the following week at yeah, barber I get a message from the aforementioned
Scott pove and he's like hey, what was your take on the situation with with these guys and I'm like, I can't I can't comment on that because
I'm directly gonna
Gain from their penalties. Yeah, so it's in my best interest to say nothing get rid of all of them
Give me all the points, you know, so I said hey look that's a direct, you know problem for me to answer that because it would then
Influence your decision and that helps me so I can't I can't say so I really need you to I say what happened
I was like out the way I looked at it was 90% Beretta 10% extra for being there
But you know, yeah, it's because of Beretta and and Johnny got taken out and the response was like absolutely not
That's not what happened. I'm like then don't ask yeah the next day I get
One of the series reps comes and finds me. He's like, hey, you got a minute. Yeah, no problem. What's up?
What would you take on the whole incident at Long Beach? And I'm like well just us talking it was exactly what I said to Bovet and
He's like, yeah, that's what I thought because when I heard what you told Bovet it didn't make sense
I'm like, what'd you hear and he's like, oh that you said it was a hundred percent Johnny O'Connell's fault and I'm like
No, and he's like, yeah, you might want to go talk to Cadillac because that's what he told them
And now I'm like seeing any future chance at an opportunity if Acura runs its course
Completely not gonna happen from anywhere somebody at Cadillac or GM could end up you want to hear how
You know what again some of the stuff that we had to deal with at that time, you know again
Talk about a pathological liar. You know, he had you know pulls us aside and is like listen
I spoke to Paul Tracy
Dario Frank, Katie
All right
Paul Tracy Bill Oberlin and Ryan Eversley, which I was like whoa the fourth one so
doesn't belong so
man, this is this that was ugly and
And they all agree that you were the most to blame. Yeah, and I'm like
No, hey, you know and so, you know Darren Laws good friends with Paul Tracy. Yeah, okay?
And so, you know, I'm like hey Darren call Paul, you know talk to and
And
Paul's response, okay when that's hey, did you see that Long Beach thing?
Did you really blame John? He's like, you know Scott Bovee said this and his response was who the fuck is but got Bovee?
Right now, you know, he didn't talk to Scott, right? I mean to Paul. Yeah, I mean so that was just you know
And then and I don't remember it was
Yes, it was I'm sitting on a plane
After that, I forget where I maybe I was flying back or whatever and
And he calls me up and he's acting like we're best buds and and all that kind of stuff and this was before right
announced points and fine and he's like well, listen, here's the deal
You're getting a $3,000 fine and night and I went ballistic and I mean I I
Went psycho I went psycho because I couldn't believe you know and then he starts pulling the Dario for Enchidi stuff and all that
You know and there's what do you do you got to pay the fine?
I want to bring up the Beretta thing because I got to witness this obviously up close and personal because of being in the series
But the fans side of me was really interested and then like the podcast side of me was really interested
Yeah, the the dynamic change between you and Beretta because at the beginning of the season
We had a thing that St. Pete drivers meeting where I can't remember. Oh, they were announcing like the FIA GT 3 tie-in or something
Oh, yeah, we're gonna do that race for
And yeah, never really went anywhere but Baru or so yeah
Yeah
So up on the main stage is like series regulars Johnny O'Connell Beretta like a couple others and you and Beretta
Sit next to each other and you tell us on the thing, you know like yeah
You know obviously we're we're rivals on track, but we spend a lot of time when Ali comes to town
He stays at my house and the whole nine yards to
eight months later the finale at Laguna seca you guys are literally he spins you
Yeah for the championship yeah goes on to hit my teammate breaks his car loses the championship
And then you go on to get the win and and it was like that there's a lot of drama
You're literally like that guy's crazy. Yeah, and this is at the stage
I mean Beretta has sort of been in your world for a very long time between
Yeah, we and out of the car always had a great time with him. He's a lovely guy in the car
He's a complete psychotic madman and uh, you know, it's kind of neat because
guys will remember, you know
Mid-Ohio when we were both in Corvette and we're both on the pit speed limiter
I'm in front of them that's right in Ohio. That's right
And we're banging doors going down pit lane right there's a marshal in front of us because pit lane is closed
All right and hole in a red flag, but I'm looking at him
He's looking at me and we're bam
The official has to run and dive out of the way
Otherwise we're going to run him over and the Beretta gets off the pit speed button early to get in front of me
And I mean that that was man. That was the beginning of the ugliness
And uh, I did pass him back on the racer. This is your teammate. That's my teammate and uh, and it was so funny
You guys dude when you know when he and I were teamed at Corvette
We're there and in 10 we were teamed for a couple races. I have him over the house. Yeah, and I think oh, this will be fun
Let's watch Talladega night. She's never seen it. Yeah, right. And so Jean-Cherard is you know, what is wrong?
You don't like the jazz music and I'm like, eliminate you sound just like him
So, uh, so we know he had fun, but you know, I just uh, you know, that was you know,
Especially what happened after Long Beach after Long Beach. It was just you know, right?
And you know, I mean if I do something like that if I do a stupid move on Ryan
You know, I might wait a day or two for him to chill out, but then I'm like, hey, dude. Sorry. I got it to you
You know and he can be like well screw you, but I know that kind of stuff
Yeah, I was gonna ask it was there ever a follow-up after the season ended like hey, let's put the press behind at the banquet
They put our tables next to each other and his team owner. I can't remember the guy's name, but really or something. Yeah, yeah great guy
And he's like Johnny come over say hi
And I'm like guys, you know glad it's all over and that Olivier. I love you, but stop running into me
You know, you got to put that stuff right stuff behind you, but uh
But yeah, no it uh, I mean we're we're blessed you're blessed, you know
I mean we're racing in in what has been just a great series
World challenge, you know over the six years that I've been there. There's been tremendous growth and an interest
You know, you go back 67 years. Nobody paid attention to it now
A ton of people are paying attention to it. I I wish we still did the standing start, you know, because uh when guys like
Helio Castroneves and Will Power come up to me and are watching our races because they love the standing start aspect
I think you're making a statement. I think we you know, maybe not done the greatest thing there that was
Dangerous but exciting thinking through the years. This may be a tough one to answer on the spot
But who's the best guy that we've never heard of a gifted guy that nobody, you know, really knows or remembers is Krasnoff
Yeah, yeah, he was Tommy Kendall is a big proponent of his. Yeah. Yeah, really always mentioned. Well. Yeah, just had the mentality of
You know, again, he was working out before guys were working out, right? You know, he never touched alcohol
I mean everything he did was race race race. Yeah, and uh, you know, he understood, understood fashion
I didn't
I guess if you grew up in Lackingata, you understand fashion, you know, and in Connecticut, I was like, uh,
jeans or jeans
I don't think I ever went up there at jordash and I'm proud of that
and uh
For those of you listening, that was an older jean company. Yeah
Exactly
So far I've heard AJ Floyd. I've heard Steve Mellon. A lot of uh, yeah, I'm curious. What other impressions do you have of your sleeve?
Of guys, yeah anybody favorite favorite guy
My hero was phil hill. Yeah, and it's very refreshing
to uh, to meet your hero and they're every bit as cool as you thought they would be
And uh, it was actually seabring probably a couple years before he passed and myself and john morton
Got to spend about an hour and a half
You know talking to him and to hear the stories about
Ferrari at that time and his sports car career that was you know, and just to for I mean, he was a very humble guy
He was uh, you know, he recognized he was successful and all that and you know, again, he's still I think y'all race car drivers have
That self-confidence
Some become jerks
He was definitely not a jerk and you could tell he had a great love for the sport but impressions
Yeah, you have jackie stewart. How about a jackie stewart? What'd you do with jackie stewart?
You know funny, the dude, it's a great day for motor racing
The funniest thing is when we are doing that test at throxton, right? I'm riding around, you know in his in his car with him
Through the infield, right? You know because we're going corner to corner taking things out. It's jackie stewart, man
Yeah, you're like, man. I'm with jackie stewart, right? Well
He goes literally you get you he gets the car rolling in first gear and then immediately goes second third fourth, right?
You're doing cars don't like being going 20 miles an hour in fourth gear. So the car's going
And all I could think is change the gear jackie. You know, but I didn't have the courage to say it
What are you doing?
That was kind of fun. Did you know spence from pelly killed a guy? You know what that wouldn't surprise me. Did he kill him with kindness?
Maybe
So no, he's a he's a nice guy, any or did he really kill a guy?
So
There's a there's a rumor that you tried to murder dario frankety at a racetrack once. Well, you know, I'm murders
I would call it homicide. Okay. The murder has that like intent
Okay, but uh, but yeah, and I never even knew I did it just like, you know cruising through the panic that at at detroit
You know, uh, dario was was still driving at the time. Oh, so yeah
But he's like he came up to me
I want to say it was a lemar or one. Maybe one of the other races is you know, he almost killed me
You know
Came up to you. Yeah. Yeah
You know, they all sound like they're all in the same room. Yeah, that's how somewhere that kill
Oh, do you impersonate beretta at all? Well, you gotta do is listen to genre. Yeah, so Simon Pashner
My husband Gregory
So Olivia Beretta's married to a man. Yeah, I'm learning a lot today and that man is most
With kids you have kids. Yeah, what drives you crazy about like pop culture and the cra- like is it
TV shows is it the craft your kids wear like your kids are both like 22 and
Can is 22 kelly's 19
Uh, you know just the way that certainly my daughter lives on her phone. It's so funny
She'll have you know friends sleep over at the house and you'll go into the room at two o'clock in the morning
And they're they never talk to each other. They're just on their phone. They're on the phone all the time
It's a you know, and they don't watch tv anymore. Right. Um, I uh, but you know what? I gotta tell you one of the
Just warmest happiest parts of my life was when they were younger and you got you know, you watch the cartoons with them and all that kind of stuff and
You know, that was fun. And then you know, initially you like Hannah Montana, you know
Who doesn't and I know I know and but then you realize, you know all kids are rotten these days
Because you know the cheekiness of the kids on the tv shows, you know
It's like you go back and you watch the anti-gryphous show there was respect for sure people that were older
Now it's you know, you you you have like a cute little kid say something cheeky and disrespectful
To to an elder
Okay, and then you insert a laugh track and they you are you know, we are tv is trained our children pretty poor but
But as far as my kids go, you know, no, no, they they've turned out pretty good so far
So we have a tradition on the show that we pass on a question to the next guest
So the next guest is none other
Then my dad John Eversley who has a long history in the sport of being a mechanic crew chief team manager
worked with uh, bob achon and the coke 962
The john paul jr 935 panos
me
Yeah
Went really downhill pretty fast
So any question you would want to ask him about anything
Like you know people have asked like
What are you for breakfast? Yeah to where did your career go right?
Anything you could think of well, your dad is known and and and accomplished and all that kind of stuff, you know, I'd be more
more inclined to
To ask him, you know
How much did you go out of your way to help your boy?
In his career. He's gonna be like what? Yeah
Yeah, yeah, and uh, how much you know, was he willing to dig into into his wallet? How much did he invest?
you know the uh, yeah, which is what it should be and uh,
I'll tell you, you know it through my career, you know, I've done a lot of the tv broadcasting and stuff for the star
Mazda stuff and and other things and I I can't tell you how many parents have come up to me asking me
You know, where should I?
Where should my kid be racing and then guys and this is no lie guys saying listen
I put 400 000 away from my retirement. Okay, where where should I use that on on my kid? Oh, and I'm
No lie. Yeah, no lie and and uh
And I can come up with four names that are in my head right now
And I'll be and I've always been like whatever you do. Don't spend your own money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so uh
But yeah, no it is you know what you you can make it you are you are proof
Lally's proof there's you know my teammate Michael Cooper's proof. I'm proof you can make it
But you got to be hungier and work harder than everybody else and that's you know, it's funny because with my son, you know, uh
You know, I help them out with some travel and all that kind of stuff, but uh,
You know, all all I tell I tell him that you know what right now
Okay, there's a thousand guys that want to be race car drivers. Okay
You got to you know, 999 of them. You've got to work hard. You got to want it more. You got to burn more fuel
You got to do whatever it takes Tony canon spent a lot of time
Sweeping garages when he came to the states, you know, and you got to be willing to you know to have that
Just ridiculous amount of hunger and it's kind kind of cool for me now with canin because he's figured it out
How much longer are you going to be doing this?
Oh boy, you know what? I still have a few things I want to do
Le Mans, yeah, okay
I've been on the podium there nine times one at four
The only thing I don't have for an american there. Actually, I have the most in the history of the world
This one i'm kind of proud of I have the most consecutive finishes at Le Mans at 10 so even even
You know christensen doesn't have that really but uh, but there was a driver. I have the most starch for any american
Uh, but masting Gregory. Yeah had 16 appearances. So I want to get that one
next year and
I'd like to get it on that podium. Yeah, get another one there again
To answer your question. I still feel good. Yeah, you know, I still think uh
I'd like to think that guys, you know when they race me can look at me and say that's
One of the better guys that this country's ever produced for sure and uh the fact that I can still win races
You know against guys like yourself parent patrick long top guys
I'm like there's no reason to leave right, you know, especially if I like it
So to answer your question, you know, if I could go another 35 years my in my ideal
Okay
Fantasy world, you know, I run another three so odd years and then my kid replaces me there you go
You ran with laly in the gto. Yeah, how was that? That was good. You it uh, you know what? We we
I forget. I think we finished second that year. I want to say
Uh, you know, uh, and andy. I think andy had a little bit of a difficulty working with me
Initially in that uh, huh? There was a tv show about it. Yeah, and uh, well because that it was yeah
There was a tv show about that and that might be why andy was the way he was because I was the big gm factory guy
How was he kind of what how was andy?
Non-compromising at that stage in his career. Uh, I think he would have benefited from like listening to me
Maybe a little bit more. No, I think that's that's all right. That sounds like him now
And uh, and you know it again
One guy done win de tona one guy done win c bring one guy didn't live win the moths everybody working together
So it's a loaded question about the tv show because shan
I don't know what produced it. Yeah
Yeah, and you guys had an interview that shaman's reluctant to mention. Oh, yeah. Yeah, what did I say?
He didn't say it man. I don't you know. Oh, no, you were paying the ass. Huh?
What's up?
Hey, no, this isn't on the air. Yeah, but uh, uh, you can put this on it's on the air. Oh, like what are you talking about?
It's on the air
No, no our very so our very first interaction was I was actually the guy that was my show
I sold it. Uh, we had a show that we did with trg. Yeah, we were documenting the whole thing and I don't think he even came to the test
I think you just came for the race. Yeah, and my assumption is no one told you about us
Oh, no, so you walked in to in the paunic tear g relationship wasn't exactly ideal at that point and uh
So you walk in and there's all these film crew guys walking around and every time you would see a little boom mic
You just like
That's that's totally me
Yeah, yeah
And like the thing is you and I hadn't because most of my guys especially the producers I had with me
They by design weren't racers. Yeah, so they would ask you the most generic question. You're like
Do you like uh, do you like racing? Yeah
How fast are you going? You know, it was all that and uh, and and everybody would come up to guys like that johnny o'connell guy
He's just such a
And like and we didn't know each other like but no everybody says he's really nice
I have a hard time buying this and then I watch the footage
But if I but if I was on the other end and somebody, you know every time like the cameras on him goes
I would be pissed off as well, but that's part of the fun. No, I get it because you know, do you get again?
We do this because we love it because it's fun, you know, and then stuff like that, you know
You know, please let them know eggs. He's actually a decent guy and he's just having fun in a
Heckman
But I had a buddy once tell me, you know what if everybody likes you you're doing something wrong, so I agree
So that's two people now that you've called
Yeah, we debated I was like, I don't know if we want to put that story on the spot because I don't know johnny be defensive
You were like
But then to Sean's credit he said that when you finally
Yeah, because like we didn't actually because you know, I was
With buckler and I had lally and brown like off-road and you know away from the track
So like they all knew me and they were comfortable and they knew my
Understanding of racing but but you were dealing with my field producers who were asking you nothing but generic stuff and like well
I believe one guy was like was there any drama like that's never the thing you ask
Oh, I know no so but when you and I interfaced I noticed you changed a lot and you were actually apologetic
Because I think it was the first time you talked with somebody on our crew that that knew what he was watching
Well, the other thing is
I didn't do Daytona for the paycheck, right, you know, I went there to win right all right
And so I just didn't know that wait this is there's a distraction here
You know, there's you know, you got guys acting right and I'm like, you know, that's going to race
Yeah
But but my apologies if I
He actually did kill two people
Sean Beckman and Dario Frankini. That's like the movie anchor, man. I killed the guy with a trident
You might want to
Awesome. Yeah, I'm good. Beautiful. I'd say continental's got the check
Wow, that was such a great episode that gas really knew how to tell a story
Did you like that Johnny O'Connell Ryan?
Good, I'm glad that you're sitting here right next to me as we edit you're welcome Sean. I'm right here
All right, huge shout out to Johnny O'Connell glad we could bury the hatchet from all those years of anger
and torment but
Anyway, we'll we'll go ahead and close out this first episode of season two
And just like we did last season we're going to close out with trying to bring some attention to some music that
Maybe you're not as familiar with so
Those who paid attention on social media may have seen we've put out a few kind of open calls for people to submit
Songs and you'll see throughout season two
We'll have a little bit of mix of people that we've never met who submitted stuff
And we'll also mix in some of our old friends and just sort of a good combination of the two
But uh the first one is actually somebody who we've never met who kind of responded to our open casting
His name is billy hamill
And he's with a band called rex
Wreck s you can find them on band camp
It looks like they're still kind of putting some demos together
But they had one song that I kind of just felt like it fit Johnny pretty well
It's called four shots and I'll waste your time no longer. Thanks for listening. Enjoy
Music
Let's take four shots to escape to this one shot in life
Music
Music
We roll up to the bar and we load in all our gear
Another night of playing for a good time and some beer
Music
This band ain't no job and dash on a real career
We may not be professionals but we're all friends in here
Music
Ah
Oh, oh, oh
Ah
About this episode
Hosts frame Ep. 329 as a “reheated” reissue, tying it to endurance racing energy from “the 24 hours of Le Mans” and the “Walkins Glen 6-Hour.” Johnny O’Connell’s pace becomes the headline: “every person he's ever driven with, he was one second faster,” and “if you're a second off anybody, you might be out.” The conversation also revisits how he’s still racing “McLaren's” GT cars, plus a behind-the-scenes 2016 recording scare and a doctor’s advice to train through pain.
The latest of our RE-HEATED series, where we re-issue episodes that might share something with racing stories in the news… Episode 30 featuring Johnny O’Connell. If you’re going to do a podcast about icons of motorsport, then Johnny O’Connell is a mandatory visit. As one of the most charismatic guys in modern sportscar, Johnny is wicked fast, you’ll know this because he’ll tell you…. having (according to him) been a second faster than every teammate he’s ever had. Beyond speed, however, Johnny brings results. As the winningest driver in GM history, Johnny took four consecutive World Challenge championships to go with his four class wins at Le Mans. One of the funniest and most likable guys in the paddock, we were happy to treat him to lunch at Moonie’s Texas Barbecue in Flowery Branch, Georgia, with the music of Wrecks playing us out. Thanks to Continental Tire for all of their support!
