Ep8 James Kirkham

Hey, everybody, Welcome back to another episode of Car Stories with some Kan and Amelia Hartford. After having this conversation,

it just made me want to go home and work harder.

Yeah, we got an exciting guest today. Pretty cool guy.

Co founder of Donut and then ended up leaving Donut to start race service with some of his friends.

Not on need we talk about his love affair for cars, but we got to share some personal stories about losing a parent and how it changes his perspective and taking risks in life and following your passion.

And I would say James's passion is bringing the world of pop culture into motorsports.

Yeah, take risks, follow your heart, and be well dressed while you're at it.

I can only dream to be as well dressed as James Kirkham.

Where'd you come from? James?

I grew up in Portland, Oregon. That me today my

house I live.

Really thanks for making the drive out.

First of all, James, let's talk about how you even have the chance to work with f one. Could you

give us a little origin of Yeah, where you're from Oregon obviously, Yeah, you know, and how you got to where you are today.

I grew up wanting to race. My dad used to

take me to the racetrack, and I just didn't know how.

I actually started street racing, not that I condone that, but at the time that was our outlet. So yeah,

I got really into cars and and and kind of quit all sports to go street racing. And I was like,

how do I do this? And so I started carting

a little bit, and then I didn't have an outlet.

I didn't know. I didn't want to go to college,

so went to music business school and worked for Snoop Dogg for a year.

What was that like? It was a lot of weed.

Like receipts for random things around weed Like like I didn't you know. I was like just doing like grunt work.

Wait, so you moved out here? You moved out to

LA right after high school?

Yeah?

Again?

Yeah, wow, Yeah I didn't really. My dad I passed

away when I was seventeen, and I was like, yeah, in hindsight, it was the best thing that ever happened to me because it gave me a superpower.

What do you mean, what do you mean superpower? Could?

I want to touch on that too? Because losing my dad,

I feel like, in a weird way that was one of the It sounds messed up to say, but one of the best things to happen to me, because I felt like it gave me this drive that isn't something you can really learn.

Yeah, like from that day forward, I like, for me, it was like the reason to be successful was to like make my dad and mom proud, like to avenge my dad's death, you know, like it just and it also gave me like a really different way of looking at the world than all my friends. You know. I

just immediately was like, Okay, detached, I'm going to do what I want to do. Now.

Did you see it coming?

My dad died on a motorcycle. Really yeah, yeah, every

other and his dad died in a car accident, and then now I'm racing cars like.

My dad to share was paralyzed on the whole upside of his body as I was growing up from a motorcycle accident. I don't know, song if you remember that

meeting my dad him like kind of limping and having one arm smaller than the other.

Oh wow, So we share that in common, and it's crazy.

Do you still ride bikes?

Yeah? I tried to buy his bike, but then I

went to a phase. I couldn't even look at motorcycles,

you know, I like hated them for like three or four years. Like I would hear one coming, I would

just like look away. But then I got to do

Kattie as you do, and learn to ride, and I hit it from my family, of course, because my grandma would have lost it, you know. But yeah, it just

gave me like this ability to kind of see the world in a different lens and just made me realize that none of this really matters. Like it's a lot

less serious than we make it out to be, because at the end of the day, you know, we're all going to die, and so let's just have some fun, you know, and not take things too seriously. And racing

is a perfect example of taking things too seriously sometimes, you know, when it's supposed to just be fun. So yeah,

it's kind of been my like life's kind of mission ever since that time. And I've been doing it for

like twenty years. Oh wow, and I've just landed like

the deal of my life right now. So I'm like

i'd look back and I'm like, whoa, I've really been going for it.

What is this deal of lifetime?

Well, so I mean to back back up a little bit.

I mean, well, I can summarize it all. I just

was really going for it, and I was moving across the country. I went to North Carolina to chase circle

track racing. I moved back to Oregon. I moved back

to southern California and knock down trailer doors at Portia. Like,

I was just constantly trying to make it work, and I got involved with the Volkwagen Jetit Tdhi Cup. I

raced in that series. I started selling real estate when

I was nineteen so I could like afford a race car to back it up a little bit. After I

worked for Snoop Dogg, went back to Portland, started selling real estate. Faked it till I made it. I mean

that was like the number one real turn. I was

number three, and within three months I had leased a range Rover Sport. When they for the first year, they

came out and put twenty two's on it, I didn't know what I was doing. That was pretty cool then.

So you went into real estate with the mindset of I want to race, I want to.

Buy a race I'm want to build a race car.

I don't know how to do it. Nothing to it

but to do it I was told. So I was like, man,

I'm going to do it. And yeah, it started its

own real estate. Bought an E forty six and three

pretty much brand new, stripped it and built it and put a rollcage in it, and started racing SECA. Did

that as much as I could afford. Lost my money,

did it again, lost more money, got in the Volte sagen jet A TDI Cup where I was sponsored by Nick Woodman, founder a GoPro. You know he he was

literally putting cameras on my car. But before the race started,

nobody knew what GoPro was. Just just like surfer dude

with a giant ziploc bag full of Triple A batteries putting it in the camera on my car before the race, and it was like, who is this guy? So I

kept racing, kept going for it, and eventually Nick and the team at GoPro convinced me to come join their team.

So I went to go pro and got to watch everybody around me kind of get rich and I didn't, and I was, you know, bitter about that a little bit.

But in the end, I look back on that time and it was the time I got to meet Ken Block, and Ken was like majorly inspiring to me because I was like, oh, man, this dude does it and his family's there and he's cool and he's breaking barriers, he's doing what he wants to do how he wants to do it. I can do it like that, and so

then I then I started figuring out how I was going to do it like that was.

This after he had come out with the Jim Conna series.

Francisco, the first that was the first one I got to work on. So I worked on, he worked on.

It was that through that one was more so behind the scenes, but yeah, that was my first like first couple of weeks at GoPro like that whole time. Yeah,

that was a big investment from GoPro. Was like, this

guy's gonna do a lot of rad shit and we want to, you know, support it. And that's kind of

how we grew the motorsport part of GoPro, and so I led the motorsport team, and you know, there was a counterpart, Rod He was one of Nick Woodman's good friends.

It was a really small company, literally out of a townhouse at the time, So then I got to learn how to make content. I pretended like I knew how

I was like helping lead the media team. I was

a leader on the team, and I really had no idea what I was doing, but you know, gave me a foot in the door. And like I said, I

was a little spiteful at the time, but it gave me so much opportunity to and I traveled the world.

So I then I spent four years traveling the world, and I quit my job on the runway of the San Jose Airport after flying with Nick Woodman, the founder, in his G six, to Colorado to race trophy trucks and shoot guns and have this amazing day. The whole

flight back, I was like dying because I'm like, I'm gonna tell him I'm leaving today. What was the decision

for leaving to start Donut.

So you and Jacob had this idea for Donut Media and at that time You're like, I'm ready, I've put my time in here and yep.

So landed the plane in San Jose. The plane is

literally spooled up still, the doors are open. Everybody else

is off the plane. Nick standing at the front door.

This is out of a movie. I swear he's standing

at the front door and I get to him. He

gives me a hug. He's like, we made it, and

I was like, no, man, you made it. I literally

said that, and I was like, I'm so grateful for the opportunity. I said, I have to do it for myself.

It's what I said.

What was the plan for Donut at that time, Well.

We got to be a part of the first wave of automotive content, Like we were making content before YouTube and street fire dot net was posting our stuff, like we were making Ryan Turk and all those guys were making drift videos for DVDs, you know, they were selling DVDs.

And what we did with Ken and what we got to do at GoPro and what Jacob did with all of his drift clients, we really got to experiment a lot.

And we knew that if we combined our forces professionally that we would be able to make some big waves.

And so Donut was built around the idea of branded content and viral videos because at the time it was all about Facebook shares, so we focused on shareability. They

were focusing a bit on Jacob and I were like, we don't know what this mcn crap is.

But It's funny you say shareable because when I make content, a big conversation and the word we use is shareability.

A lot of people want to talk about the algorithm and how it's going to promote this so that but at the end of the day, the algorithm is the audience and is the audience enjoying the content? Are they

sharing the content? So it's fascinating to hear you guys

using that how many ten years ago.

Let's just say, yeah, I feel like if you focus on algorithm, you're going to be owned because the algorithm is always going to change. Right now, I think the

universe pays authenticity, So being true to yourself and being true to what actually drives you is your invincibility right now.

And I think there's beauty and social media. It's allowed

us to free ourselves from corporate money to some extent, it's given power back to individuals. But you see trends

come and go, come and go, come and go. And

now I'm really proud to be sitting in a place where we've never sold out. I've never chased views, except

for back then we were chasing sharability, and it was actually what drove us to doing what we're doing now, because it felt hollow after a while, we were making million videos every day. I mean it was like not

like was easy, and it didn't. It didn't fulfill It

was like where are these people? Who are these people?

The algorithms kept changing and then we have to start over and it was like, fuck, nobody's you know, getting fulfillment out of this, not even the brands that are paying us nothing to make these content. So the other

guys that we started Donut with wanted to spend less money.

I think money was probably getting tight.

How much were you guys spending on a video?

Oh, we were spending all of it. I mean we were.

That's the thing is they wanted to make content with green screens and make spend no money. And Jacob and

I were doing branded content that was costing a lot of money to make. But you know, we were bringing

in the money from brands, but wed you know, spend you know, we do big budget at least once a month doing big stunt videos, and so that was kind of a point of contention. The other people were like,

we just need to spend less, and you guys have a different vision than us, and so we split ways.

And started Race Service, which was based around the idea of community and giving giving depths into what we did online, and I mean we have lofty goals with it.

So what is the ethos behind race Service for people that don't know.

To elevate motorsport and to build a community. I mean, ultimately,

like motorsport and racing is our platform right now, but I'm very aware that it's a sport and the fulfillment comes from people. And I think that's something I've learned

along the way, is like, no matter how cool your stuff is, it's all just comes back to the people.

And if you're seeing other people become fulfilled, then that's that's where I find the fulfillment. So I'm really enjoying

what we're doing right now. It's really cool.

So Race Service essentially is status quo old school kind of you know, like race teams and that world, trying to infuse pop culture and bring in like what the hip dudes like you are thinking and what you guys are into into the race world essentially, right.

Yeah, that's that's essentially it. I mean, pretty simple concept

when you step back, I guess it's only simple for us because it's just like what we do. Like it's

it's and I wouldn't say it's easy, but it's it's just we're we're being ourselves, you know. So that part

is easy.

Because I saw I saw Race Service over at the Coliseum when they had the NASCAR event like a month ago.

I was like, this is brilliant. This is a brilliant

collaboration because NASCAR is perceived as like a bunch of you know, like you know, conservative like Bible belt folks, you know, and not very progressive people, right, and then you see Race Service there like and you I just go, oh, they're going to do some hip ship here. They're going

to make it cool, right, And I was like, oh, this is smart because it's going to bring in a younger demographic, you know. I mean it's it's creating a bridge, right,

and that's really smart like marketing, you know. It's like

it's so so now my understanding like how Race Service you know, was creating and why it exists and why actually it works. You know. So it's it's it's pretty simple.

You know. You add like dope shit to racing moral

you know, and it's like it makes sense.

Right totally, and especially now we have like the popularity of the sport is at an all time high. You know,

I love NASCAR. It's the best racing in the world

if you ask me. I've gotten a chance to have

my hand at circle track racing and it's the hardest thing in the world. And I think Formula One drivers

would admit that too. It's very challenging. And the sports,

the road course racing is incredible. It's like full contact,

you know, bumping and banging, lots of passing, lots of skill, and so, yeah, the sport has a long way to go.

Then hopefully we can be a part of that that story with what we are.

When you say a long way to go in what sense.

It's it's still old school in the sense of like you know it it you know, you can't it doesn't the change can't happen overnight. Like what I've told them

is like you can't you can't just do one race at the coliseum and think that that's going to make you cool, Like you have to like change from within, and that that goes down like to the drivers to like, you know, they've been told to be a certain way their whole career, and I think a lot of them are just scared a bit, you know, or they're just trying to be this thing they're supposed to be, so they come off as kind of corny, and I think they don't need to be cool. They can just be

themselves and then we have something cooler because you right now you have a very canned product. You just have

like here's the interview, here's the thing I'm gonna talk about my sponsors, Like, you know, Will Ferrells made a movie about it ten years ago, and we're still doing that.

Like the movie was great, Let's learn from that and expand how we give the world our product.

I mean that's the interesting thing, right, Like what is cool? Yeah,

what you said earlier makes sense to me is that you know, when somebody is true, that usually works out, but it's hard to do. I mean as an actor,

you know, the breakdown for a character is like he's cool.

They go, well, what is that? How do you direct

somebody to be cool?

And I feel like if cool is authentically being yourself, there's got to be that fear of not being good enough to be cool right deep down a little bit.

Yeah, that's great. I mean real talk that resonates. I

mean that goes back to like this idea of not ever being taught self love right like at a left field.

But it's crazy as a society. I think you see

people in powerful positions constantly struggling with this, and yeah, it is kind of what makes someone cool in a way.

You don't give a fuck, yeah, or you give it too many fucks.

Yeah, But it's funny. I had this thought this morning,

is that like you don't need to try. You know

you're enough.

And it's hard because I mean that comes from guaranting too.

When you're young, if you don't have that and you know, there's not a community to support you, right, like you're kind of walking around kind of trying to go well, you know what am I like? That was? You know?

That was my problem growing up? Is that like I

was always like I always felt insecure and it's just stuff that I'm I think I'm kind of understanding now at my age, you know.

But what about it?

Are you?

Are you understanding.

That that doesn't you know? Because I'm fifty now, right, so,

like you know, the average lifespan of a man in America is like seventy seventy five today.

If you're healthy, I'm scary thought.

Yeah, so then, and most men in my family don't live that long, right, So I go, well, let's say I got another ten fifteen years on this earth. You know,

I don't really have time to worry about what other people think. And as I get older, I go, well,

all the flaws that manifested my insecurity. The more people

I meet, you know, as you get older and more access to different types of people, you realize everybody has their freaking shit and everybody's flawed, right, and some people just do a great job of hiding it. And then

the ones that are able to just communicate and put it on the table go, this is who I am.

It's not the best, but you know, like, who gives a fuck?

Right?

I go, yeah, man, I like that person, you know, and they're just honest. It's like it goes to this

operative just being honest with yourself into the world. And

it's easy to say, but it's fucking hard not to worry about or be concerned with, you know, what other people in the room, or your peers, or your friends or your colleagues, you know, think of you, because especially being in Hollywood, because there's always somebody more famous than you richer than you, better looking than you.

Unfortunately, kids with social media too, it's all about comparison.

Are you getting as many views as the other person and kind of similar and to piggyback off of what you're saying. Something that I try to remind myself of

is no one's going to remember what you said to them as much as they're going to remember how you made them feel. And I think being truthful and being

a good person being cool.

Cool.

That's cool these days is being being nice? Being a

kind person is cool. Like being real and true to

what makes you happy is what is cool. I think,

and I think more now more than ever, and that I'm trying to like focus on growth on a daily basis.

If I can focus on growth, then I think that means I live pretty open minded or as open minded as I can. And then every interaction I have with people,

I try to just be positive of it and at least smile.

Or try not to put it on yourself. If you

can't find a way to make them smile. It's not

personal either, not things ever personally totally.

Yeah, And I mean that to me feels like what works right now, and yeah, it's it's it's definitely a hard time in the world right now.

It's funny because merely, you know, when I met James, just been passing at the NASCAR event and he was wearing this Lotus like retro shirt right for.

Those listening gyms always has the cool swag on.

But see that is to me the definition of cool because I remember we're at this NASCAR event and everybody has those NASCAR jackets and stuff, and then it's this NASCAR.

It's like, you know, it's America, It's NASCAR, NASCAR, Nascars.

And I see this dude with this Lotus shirt on at NASCAR and I was like, Yo, that is I think I told you I was retro, and you know, like we're literally walking by each other. From that down.

I was like thinking of this cool guy that's like going to like a you know, like a Dodgers game with like you know, like opposing teams like Jersey on, right, and I was like, that is pretty fresh. And as

a car dude, I totally appreciate like a big fan of Lotus and send this time there and I was like, yo, dude, this dude does not I was telling my friend he does not, you know, I mean, unapologetically yoursel.

Yeah.

Thanks, that was a fun day too. I mean it

was a real like I keep having those, which I guess that means I'm in the right, Like I'm really trying to not take this this window for granted, because you know things, it's fleeting, and life is short and and we're really like being received right now. And I

had literally just walked in with a really rad group of people that are like a couple of them are on my team and then their partners and and I'm just really grateful to be surrounded by so many good people.

And we're a really cavalier moment of time. And if

you're armed with this like freedom to be who you are and surrounded by people that love and support you and you love and support then yeah, it's like this layer of invincibility that I feel like, you know, I know the time on earth is short, and you know, I just lost the dear relative, and those moments are moments of reflect what's most important in life, and it's the people around me and the people that I get to interact with and talk with. And yeah, it's this

layer of invincibility of like I'm doing things with purpose and trying to be the best person I can and trying to find grace for myself because I just I run ragged. I'm constantly never good enough for myself.

You know.

I feel that yeah about myself.

Same same yeah.

Do you get nervous at all about you know, spending twenty years of your life chasing this dream, let's say, and then accomplishing it and you're here with it right now.

Do you get nervous about if you'll still be as fulfilled after the projects finished? Or do you kind of

just like, let's expand bigger, better and continue to push on.

No, what are you chasing, James?

It's funny because I've been chasing this acceptance and this freedom to race cars. All my friends are professional race

car drivers, you know, like a lot of them. And

I used to be bitter that I couldn't be that.

So I spent my life trying to be that. I

you know, gave it all up every time and time and time again. I gave everything I had to it,

moved across the country, lost multiple relationships and a family.

You know. I just was committed to this, and I

look back at the people that I hurt along the way because of this blinded view of what I what I thought for myself, and like, actually, I'm already there, and racing cars is fun and it's super super super addicting, and that's what literally drives my life, the addiction. Let's

let's dive into that. But I'm trying to realize that

now it's about making a difference in the world with this tool of racing. I get to go racing, but

I'm going to do it with a purpose, And we're still working out all the details of what we'll do with it, but we just came up with an idea to encourage more women in racing, and we we want to do a unisex closing collection. So part of this

program is a luxury apparel line, and so that's what I've been focusing on for the last handful of years.

I love that because I'm just going to openly say, I hate that pink is always assumed is the girl color, and all the clothes have to be fit a certain way to be women's and like, I weren't a baggy XLT right now in baggy pants totally.

I'm with that, and I want to know we want to help make motorsport more inclusive.

It'd be cool to get a bunch of racing drivers to be the ones to model and walk down the runway.

That's it. Let's go.

But James, when you say like luxury brand, I worry about that, like it becomes exclusive totally.

Our strategy is to use really thoughtful garments and design and materials to make the best pieces of apparel. So

we use the higher end line to test theory and to elevate brand. But then there will be a distilled

down version that doesn't sacrifice too much that will be mass appeal because I don't want to alienate everybody. I

do want to be accessible, and we've never priced anything unfair.

And as long as we stay true to that and keep line segmentation and in mind as we approach the market, I think we'll we'll find the right success. It's it's

like brands like Fear of God and Essentials, and that is like a perfect example of how I'd like to structure our brand.

Essentials is a clothing brand for the people that I'll know.

And that's like my wife went in. She's like hip

on everything that is like kipping fashion. She's like fashionist

does she calls herself she loves fashion. Right. She came

home with an Essential sweatpants and she's like, yeah, this is like a couple of hundred dollars. And I was like,

why are you buying this for me? Like please do that?

Do that?

And she goes, just just put it on, just try it, like you're gonna be like more open minded, right, And so I wore it for a couple of days, and then she started seeing me like I'd go to the gym in them, and then I'd sleep in them, up in them, walk the dock in them. And she goes,

see that. The thing about why Essentials works is because

and look, I'm not promoting Essential or anything, like I don't know them for shit, right, but they make great product.

It's like really well made. And she goes, yeah, you

get what you pay for, like you're actually sleeping in them too, right, And I go yeah, so that's you know, that's something that I support, is like if you get what you pay for, and if it's like clothing that you know has a ethos and then also you know it's gonna last like ten years and it looks better, Like every time I wash these sweats, it actually looks cooler, right, and and I'm sold, and I was like, oh, then I was thinking about I go, this is why essentials works.

I thought it was just like some brand and it's it's expensive, and it's like it's a perceived to be cool.

But the problem with fashion is that once it gets oversaturated, it's not cool anymore.

Yeah.

I think we're in a place in society where fast fashion has kind of become what's normal in terms of pricing and listen, I understand it. It's great because if

you need clothing and you can't afford it, it's affordable prices, but you wash it a few times and it rips at the seams or it falls apart, and it's really used.

It got popularized, I think from Instagram and wanting to stay on the trends but not being able to spend the money. So a lot of people would buy fast

fashion in order to wear something once for a photo, knowing that it wouldn't get worn again, versus finding something that you're comfortable in, and that kind of slowly started becoming the norm. It's like, I don't want to call

companies out for it, but there are some that are more notorious than others for just crazy mass production, bad labor laws in other countries and whatnot, just to get garments produced.

It opens the door for people like us that want to do things with ethics, you know. And I mean

everything's gotten crazy a little bit, right. The pricing structures

have gotten out of control, and hopefully we don't have to feel too much of that correction. You know. I

was listening to Maclamore's thrift Shop and he was like fifty dollars for a T shirt, talking about fifty dollars for a Gucci shirt. If you could find me a

Gucci shirt for fifty bucks right now, I'll buy it because those things I mean, not that I'm shopping for a Gucci shirt necessarily, but they're like, you know, six hundred now it's out of control. I mean. Essentials is

an interesting case study because Jerry Lorenzo is the designer behind it. He was a wave of influence with Virgil,

with Kanye, with all these guys. Now Pharrell was kind

of the og of it all. He made a pair

of jeans that were one thousand dollars and I was like, what I remember, that wasn't that long ago. I was

at Donut at the time, and I was like those are crazy. I was like, they're actually pretty cool, and

he was like the guy who brought real rock and roll jeans back, but they were like, really dope, They're like and it changed fashion. It changed streetwear. It made

streetwear come from T shirts to like elevated fashion men's fashion a bit, and it just started going up and up.

It's an art form, yeah, it really is.

And then the people started, you know, like getting used to that price, and then other brands started following with more expensive stuff, and you know, I bought those pants and I wore them for years and it was like the most expensive thing I'd ever bought. I wore them

for years and then sold them ungrailed for twenty five hundred dollars after wearing them for like am I at the time had a very minimal closet and I still try to keep my closet as minimal as possible. I

think the best designers, like you look at Rick Owens, who's an incredible fashion designer, and he has a huge store with thousands of products, but his closet has five things in it. You know, it's just intention And I

think that that is another kind of theme of time right now. Is being intentional about how you approach the

way we live. You know.

Fashion cool is something that I've been trying to understand for years because you see people that go, you know, to Barney's and they drop like fifteen grand on a wardrobe and He's and they show up and you go, there's no soul to what they're wearing. It's like they

bought a bunch of expensive shit. Then somebody at the

store told him to buy right, or they open GQ magazine and go, this is the flavor of the month.

I go buy that. Right. And then you meet somebody

that you know they went to like Goodwill, right and dug up a load of shirt right, and they got some like you know, dope ass kicks, right, and you know they got some you know leviyes or Lee jeans, and something about him just like it just exudes like this again, this cool element to it, right. And then yeah,

and then you meet a dude like you know, like working at his garage doing some like woodwork, and he's just wearing a flannel right or Carhart kind of jacket or something, or overalls and you know, some some red wing boots and you go, that is dope to oh right, And it's intention, like you're saying, is that, and there's truth behind why they're wearing it. They're not trying to

pose right, And so I think, like you know when I'm Today's conversation is teaching me is that if you have intention and truth to whatever you do in life, even your fashion, it comes off cool.

It's cool, right yeah?

And self love.

Do you have advice or things you've learned through your career that you want to share with the audience.

I have a set how old does she know? She

just turned nine?

Time flies?

Oh man, that's crazy anyway, teaching her things about life.

I have a limited time with her. We have an

incredible relationship and it is what it is like. I

fought it for a long time that we weren't living in the same place, but I realized that when everything's perfect, everything's exactly as it's meant to be, and nothing matters.

I'll elaborate on that everything comes true when you believe it.

If you don't believe it, it doesn't come true. And I

fullheartedly believe that, and that if you are true to yourself and follow your dreams or follow what makes you happy and fulfilled, treat people right along the way and have pure intentions that it all works for you. And

at the time it might not feel like it's working for you, that's for sure, But if you can take a step back and remind yourself that it is working for you, it all works out. Everything always works out.

And that was actually what my dad passing away taught me.

Everything works out, Everything happens for a reason. Everything does.

It really does. I think there's a lot of beauty

and the death. If you can find that, then then

it kind of teaches you that everything is possible, that you can be anything you want and do anything you want.

It sounds easy when you say it, but it's hard.

It's hard to me. I go, you know, if you're

just a good mood dude and you're honest and you're like, you know, pure intentions and you work your ass off, people want to help those people, They want to be around those people. But it's funny how people just forget

these things right certain elements of it. They're like, you know,

they're assholes, m are they trying to fuck you over?

And you're like, and then they start complaining that the world's against them, but the world isn't you created that wall, like I don't want to be around the fucking asshole.

That's the other crazy thing that we don't even realize.

We're never taught that, like we as human beings carry these stories around us that are only true to ourselves.

The story doesn't mean anything to anybody else in your life.

That person that hurts you yesterday, why would you carry that into today? That doesn't matter to anybody but you.

If you can really understand that, it gives you ability to be present. It doesn't matter what happened yesterday, doesn't

matter what happened the day before. It's a pragmatic way

of looking at the world, but it works. And you

carry the story of how this person hurt me, this person did this, XYZ happened. The only person you're hurting

is yourself. Doesn't mean you departmentalize and detach. It means

that you you understand that that is what happened then in this what's happening now, and that's what you can focus on. You know, there's no sense in playing a

victim in your life.

I give you a little example. There's so many you know,

young women out there that are you know, pursuing being an actress or whatever their career field is and their dreams are. But when I met Amelia, the thing that

separates her or someone like her is that she did such a great job of staying in touch. She's like, hey,

I'm back in town. You know, let's get together. What's

going on with you? You know, It's like and then

we talked about some projects, you know, and then she's like, what's going on with that project that I'm interested? And

you know, when I was younger, I was taught you know, people want to help people who help themselves and they put themselves out there. And I was like, and then

there are people you meet, like you meet them and they're like, yeah, you know, I'm not going to do anything to help myself, Like I'm too cool for school, So everybody comes to me. And I was like, this

is what young people need to know, is that go out there and go fucking after it, you know, wake up, like call people back, go email people, go, you know, tell them this is my dream. How can I help

you help me? Right? And just and the rest of

it is you got to get up and you got to go work. That's why, like you know, for me,

like I go, I use her as like a perfect prototype of what it's self made successful woman today can be.

I mean everybody that meets her, right, it's like she's special, she's unique. I love her, and it's because she goes

after it. And so for the listeners out there, it

doesn't matter like where you come from, because she can share her story and people who've listened to the podcast knows like what she's been through. But she goes fucking

after it, right, And it's so it's almost so especially in this country, I think for in other countries, you know, you know, there's limitations for women and all that stuff.

It's fucked up there, but you can go after it, you know what I mean. And I look at her

and she goes she's going to be successful. It's not

something like if if she gets lucky. It's like she's

made her own luck.

You know, amen? Right, Yeah, you're living in your power

and we feel it, and it's it's it's a special thing that you can feel when you walk in the room, and it's because you're true to yourself and and just just going for it. And to your point, it's it's possible,

and it's it's possible for anybody as long as they're willing to put the right foot forward.

You know, I believe luck is one hard work meets opportunity.

Yeah, nothing just happens. I mean, yeah, it's a pretty

pretty pretty special way to live. And it's and it's

a superpower that when you really understand, it gives life a whole new purpose.

And it's not easy. Because when you were sharing your

story about how you left go Pro, you were scared your heart. You know, you're like nervous because.

I've had many failures. I got so many failures. You

have no idea, Yeah, so many embarrassments. I was kicked

out of the first ever professional racing series. I was

on my birthday at my home track, really because I didn't have a money for crash damages. My car ran

without me. My name was announced all weekend. I had

sponsors and friends and everybody there was the week I met Ryan Turk and Chris Forsburg and Von Getting Junior and all those guys. And now look at us. I

mean like at that time, I thought the world was over.

You know, time and time again, you get kicked down and you have to get back up. And sometimes I

feel like getting kicked down is just that's my story.

Well that's okay.

It also tests you on how important it is for you, because if you got kicked down and you're like, okay, I can't do this, you wouldn't be racing today. You

got to just keep going.

And to feel fulfilled, you have to have an equal amount of negative. Like I believe the universe is balanced,

so to feel happy, you have to have that opposite on the other end. It's not means you have to

walk around sad. But we feel pain. We all feel pain. Yeah,

the universe is balanced. If you want a valiant win,

you need to valiantly try and fail.

Yeah, that's it, and it's about getting back up. It's

funny you know that you say that because yesterday friend was asking me. It's like, hey, so it was easy

for as an actor. Didn't come naturally like you know,

and I was like and I was and I remember my first real acting like opportunity. It was like I

was in college and I got the lead for this play and you know, in high school I was acting, but it didn't mean anything then because it was just you know, I'm just acting from my friends and I'm just kind of fucking around and but it was. It

was a lead for an official play that was going to run for weeks and people were going to be charged money to come and watch. And we rehearsed for

months and I was the lead. And I remember the

day that we opened. We get out on stage and

the lights turn out and I forgot everything. I couldn't

remember one line. I could not move like a deer

in front of headlights, and the director had to pull me off stage and he put the play in my hand, the book in my hand, and I read the rest of the play with my head down in the book right, and did not move, and I was shaking and I could barely speak. And in the audience I hear people,

especially my friends, like the fuck is wrong with if I sucks? This place sucks, that guy sucks. And I'm

like trying to hold down my tears. Right, And I

ran home after the play and you know, put the covers over my head and locked the door and I would not answer the door. I remember they were like

knocking on the door, going height and trying to like, you know, somebody, they're trying to call me and I and I never left the apartment for like three probably like three days, so the next day we had to play.

I didn't show up. So I mean that play was

like running for three weeks, and anytime I saw anybody from the you know, the theater group or other actors that were a part of it, I would like like run the other way. And I was like, I'm never

gonna act again. I suck. I was not meant to

do this, Like how do you freeze up? And I

remember one damn line that you rehearse for three months.

I go, there's no way I'm gonna ever be an actor.

But you know, I kept studying. I kept falling on

my face, you know. And I moved to LA and

I did all these other things and no one ever saw it. I would consider one hundred percent of them

were failures. I considered myself like the worst actor that

ever existed. Fast forward years later, there was like a

movie premiere. I think it was one of the fast premieres,

and everyone's stressed up and we're on the red carpet and this dude walks up to me and it was the director from that play from college, and he goes, hey, do we know each other? And I knew exactly what

he was and ran, no, we never met and he's just stirring him. He's like he's just about to say

I know, you know, I'm like, hey, I've never met you. Sorry. Yeah,

And I'm still embarrassed of that. But then I go, dude,

it doesn't matter about those failures. It's a matter if

you get up. And it was so hard to get up.

It was so hard to cause it took me years, years, even after college, to be able to perform in front of an audience, even if it was five people, without shaking, stuttering.

I always forgot my lines right, Like I would just forget half to play and the other and then people talk shit because people are fucking cold, right, Like I remember, like have to ever play. I would hear that guy sucks.

I'm never gonna do a play with that guy. But

it's a matter of just constantly getting up.

Getting also a muscle to keep building that.

Yeah, or just being delusion?

How much of that was motivation to keep going? And

first question, second, how long did it take you to tell that story?

I think that was the first time I told that story ever.

Wow.

But I would also say that it is really important to have the right people around you. You know, my

wife and I've been together since ninety four. It was

at that time the only person and my acting teacher, sal Romeo. These two individuals would say, yeah, you suck,

but you love it. This is what you're meant to do,

so just keep going. And I remember I was going

to quit acting and go join the police force. Like

it was like thirty five is the cutoff, I think for LAPD. And I remember I was thirty five. I

had a whole bunch of friends quitting and going, hey man, this ain't going to work. One wanted to be a director,

he went to USC Film School, had a loan and all this stuff. And I had other actor friends that's

just like it, like I got a you know, I need health insurance man, Like you know, my my girlfriend wants to get married, all this stuff. Like you know,

you're because you're poor as an actor. People don't they

just see like people in the red carpet, they're they're all rich, Like most actors are poor.

You know.

So less than five percent of the people in the Screen Actors Guild, which is the actors union, make over thirty thousand dollars five percent. That tells you that it's

pretty bad out there, right, I was going to quit, and she, my wife, was like, I'd rather have a husband and be married to somebody who's working at McDonald and is pursuing their dream and happy to come home and going at least I'm giving it a shot. Then

a cop that it gave up his dream and has his insurance and works like three or four, you are going to be that cop that shoots somebody or shoots himself.

And I'm not going to be married to that dude.

And it's I don't give a fuck if we have money or a house or insurance. I need to be

around somebody that is pursuing their dream.

Because that's rich, because rich is living fulfilled and not the money. You know, I think having it easy is

a curse. I think that's that's that's probably the best

motivation that listeners could hear. It's that if you have it,

you think you're having it difficult, then then you actually have it pretty good. Because if you had everything handed

to you, it's it doesn't make a good person.

And if you're going through a hard time now, that's only because something good is coming your way.

Yeah, It's like I use the buffet analogy. You know,

when you go to a buffet. You gotta have all

this food in front of you. You don't really appreciate

it doesn't taste that good. But when you are starving,

like starving, like you worked all day and you're hungry, like you can go to seven eleven and get like a bowl of like you know, cup of noodle. It's

the best damn meal you had in a long time.

And I think that's like that's life. And then in success,

like I asked people, what is your definition of success?

Is it being able to buy whatever you want and eat whatever you want, you know, and go out anytime you want, you know, most then you gotta get pretty fucked up. You're gonna be fat and like desensitized to

the little joys in life. Right. So it's like you

have to be careful when you're successful too, because if your life is a buffet, you're gonna get out right that amen?

Right amen. I keep telling people that I think the

secret to life is growth, and that goes to that, like if you if you're at the buffet, you're there and you're close minded, and you're gonna just be there. Yeah,

And if you're willing to grow every day, I think then you've won.

Yeah, And you know what's beautiful about you, James, is that you love love motorsport and it's probably because you didn't get to do it, you know. And then you

meet like, you know, professional drivers, and the light behind their eyes are gone. It's just the job, right. Even

with actors, Like when I meet an actor that is super successful and they just complaining about everything like this food sucks, this sucks, this wardrobe sucks. I'm like, dude,

what do you complaining about? Man? Like you play pretend

for a living like you're superhero right, Like everyone is asking you, like what do you want to eat? Like

you know, and everything's free, right, Everybody loves you, and you're fucking complaining. And that's why I go, Hey, that's

when I step back and I go, maybe you know, slow success is better because once you do get that, you appreciate everything.

Like That's what I've been thinking lately. It's taken song

to get to even where I am today. It took

me so long just to get off welfare and food stamps, thank you. But I was just like I had that

thought in back of my head, like I'm glad it's happening, happening slower because I can be appreciative of everything that is happening as it happens, and I'll always stay humble because I'm never going to forget the times that i've that I went through. And it's funny, I've seen some

of that being on smaller projects, of people losing sight of what they're passionate about and taking it for granted, versus just waking up and just being thankful to have a roof over your head.

Yeah, it's an interesting thing. To your point. Of the

reason I love it is because I've wanted it so badly for so long. Yeah, I realized that me chasing

this dream was actually my dream, and that the process of failing and not having what I thought I wanted was actually the most fulfilling thing I could have ever had, and that I am now surrounded by amazing people. I

work in the field that I want, I am respected by people that I respect, and I do it my way.

And so yeah, I'm Mercedes AMG wants me to go race the twenty four hours of Nerburgring next year.

Congratulation what I hope you get a lot of sim.

Times, I'm so scared for the twenty four hours of nerbur Gring. I'll race anywhere else in the world, but

that place is crazy.

Isn't that deemed as like the hardest the hardest races. Yeah,

Green Hell is what they call it.

It's insane. It's insane anyway, you know, the dream is

here and I'm trying to appreciate it and now step into the next phase with able to be able to manage those fears and and and just expectations and just do the best I can and find grace for myself.

Baby. Yes, that's it all right, James, thank you.

So much, Thank you so much.

I'm so grateful coming out to be here and let them thank you for having this conversation.

Yeah. Yeah, this is beautiful.

Yeah, I really appreciate it.

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