A “350 kilowatt” charger is a very fast EV charging station. It’s supposed to charge quickly, but in this story the car/app didn’t allow the charge to start the way the host expected.
Tesla is an electric-vehicle brand, and it also runs a charging network. The hosts are talking about whether those chargers are open to everyone and whether the app/software lets the car begin charging.
The Dodge Charger is a car made for fast driving. It’s a popular model that people often talk about when they mean “muscle car” style. The podcast mentions it as a standard or reference point.
The Kia EV9 is an electric SUV with room for more than two rows of passengers. It’s made for family-style trips while running on electricity. The podcast mentions driving one during a press event and having a moment while traveling.
Forks, Washington is a real town in Washington state. The host mentions it because it’s the setting fans associate with the Twilight movies, and they were worried about getting stranded.
A “fast charger” is an EV charger that can refill your battery much quicker than a normal home-style charger. Here, the point is that the host could plug in, but the charger wouldn’t actually deliver power.
Rivian makes electric trucks and SUVs, and it also has its own charging stations. Here, the host couldn’t get the charger to deliver power because access wasn’t open yet.
A route planner is an app that helps you plan a trip. For electric cars, it can also help you find charging stops and estimate how long you’ll need to charge.
They mention an “Ioniq,” which is a Hyundai model line. It can come in different electrified versions, but they’re talking about it as the car they drove and plan to review.
Charging parameters are the “settings” the charging app uses to start and manage charging. If the app can’t recognize the car or station correctly, the charger may not show up or work as expected.
The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is an electric car. The point here is that charging can be confusing because different charging networks and apps don’t always “talk” to each other smoothly.
An EV road trip is when you drive far in an electric car and you have to stop to charge along the way. The “road trip” part is still fun, but charging logistics can make it stressful if the network isn’t convenient.
Pre-planning your charging means you decide ahead of time where you’ll stop to plug in. It helps you avoid getting stuck at a charger that doesn’t work when you arrive.
The Cadillac Lyriq is an electric SUV made by Cadillac. It’s designed as a luxury vehicle and runs on electricity. The podcast mentions it while talking about charging.
CPI is a number that measures how much prices are rising for everyday stuff. The host is saying it doesn’t fully capture what people feel, especially when buying expensive items like cars.
The Porsche Taycan Sport Turismo is an electric Porsche with a wagon-style shape. The host is saying Porsche is stopping sales of these wagon versions in the U.S., so the lineup gets narrower.
The Porsche Panamera is Porsche’s four-door performance sedan, and it also came in wagon-like “Sport Turismo” variants. Here, the host references the Panamera wagon/Cross Sport idea and says Porsche canceled that configuration around 2023, framing it as another example of desirable body styles disappearing.
Term
cargo volumes
“Cargo volumes” means how much space there is to carry things in the trunk or cargo area. The host is basically saying people shouldn’t judge a Porsche only by how many groceries it can fit.
The Porsche 911 GT3 RS is one of Porsche’s most hardcore 911s, made for track driving. The host says its price has jumped a lot over the last few years.
The Porsche 911 is Porsche’s iconic sports car, known for its rear-mounted flat-six engine and long-running evolution. Here, the host contrasts 911 development with other Porsche models, arguing that certain crossovers/EVs haven’t delivered “cooler and better” 911s the way the Cayenne-era strategy did.
“Engine building” here means the old-school bragging rights about how well a company makes gas engines. The host thinks some luxury brands focused on that, but didn’t explain the quality work that goes into electric cars.
An EV’s “800-volt architecture” is how the car’s electrical system is designed. Using a higher voltage can make it easier for the car to accept more power from a charger, which can mean faster charging.
A BMW M5 wagon is an M5 that’s shaped like a wagon instead of a sedan. It’s unusual, so people get excited about it because it’s both fast and more practical.
Layoffs are when a company reduces the number of employees. In car-company news, it often happens when the business is struggling or changing how it builds cars.
The Arizona plant is Lucid’s manufacturing site in the U.S. state of Arizona, referenced here as a production location affected by shift cuts. The hosts mention that the layoffs included the entire second shift of production at that facility.
Lucid Air is an electric car from Lucid. The hosts say it drives nicely, but they’ve heard about problems—especially with electronics and the key/door features. They’re also talking about how expensive it is new, and why someone might buy it later as a project car.
“Lemon law” is what people use when a brand-new car keeps having the same big problem. If the problem doesn’t get fixed, the company may have to buy the car back or replace it. In this story, the host says the company offered a full buyback instead of going through the usual lemon-law route.
Key fobs are the small remote devices you use to lock/unlock the car. Here, the host is saying the Lucid Air’s key fob system doesn’t work well—sometimes the remote entry fails and the doors don’t always respond. That’s annoying because it affects everyday access to the car.
Concept
hacker girlies
The host is joking about being the kind of person who likes to tinker with computers and electronics. Here, they’re saying they’d be interested in hacking the car’s systems to fix or enable features—like getting the AC working. It’s basically “DIY tech project” energy, applied to a car.
End of life software updates are the last software fixes a car company provides. The host is talking about what happens when a company stops supporting the cars—like whether the car still gets important updates. Since EVs are very software-dependent, support can affect how usable the car stays over time.
The Volkswagen ID. Buzz is an electric van-style vehicle. It’s designed to carry people comfortably, and its shape can make it hard to label as either a minivan or an SUV. The podcast is specifically debating what category it fits best.
The GMC Hummer EV is an electric SUV/truck-style vehicle. It’s made to look rugged and to handle off-road driving. The podcast mentions it as part of a discussion about EV models and names.
The Jeep Wrangler is an SUV made for off-road driving. It’s the kind of vehicle people buy when they want to go on trails or rough terrain. The podcast mentions it as the go-to choice for off-road use.
Lucid Gravity is Lucid’s SUV. They’re talking about a problem serious enough to trigger a recall involving the rear seats, which can slow down deliveries and hurt sales.
A recall means the company has to fix a problem in cars that are already out. Here, the problem is connected to the rear seats, so the company can’t sell or deliver those cars until it’s fixed.
The Tesla Model S is an electric car, meaning it runs on electricity instead of gasoline. It’s known for being fast and having lots of technology. The podcast brings it up as a better, more reasonable example.
Platform sharing means using the same basic “car foundation” for more than one model. That can make it cheaper and faster to build new cars, while still allowing different body styles.
The Rivian R2 is an electric vehicle that Rivian is aiming to sell in larger numbers. It’s meant to be a more accessible model in their lineup. The podcast mentions it while talking about Rivian’s plans for multiple models.
This is a sportier version of the Ford Explorer SUV. Here, they’re talking about Ford adding a special package to it that’s based on the same kind of engine setup used in police Explorers.
The Jensen Interceptor is an older sports-style car. It’s known for being a performance grand tourer with a distinctive look. The podcast mentions it while talking about an engine swap idea.
That phrase means the engine setup designed for police cars. Police cars often need to handle lots of stop-and-go driving, so this is the kind of engine Ford uses for that job.
The Ford Fiesta is a small car meant for everyday driving. Some versions are performance-focused, like the “Fiesta ST.” The podcast mentions it mainly while discussing how people refer to those trim names.
An ST badge is a label Ford puts on some cars to show they’re a sportier version. In this episode, the point is that Ford is using that badge in a way that’s meant to match what the aftermarket community already does.
DRL means daytime running lights. They’re the lights that turn on in the daytime to help other drivers see your car, and here the host is talking about them being yellow/amber.
The Taurus SHO is a faster, sportier version of the Ford Taurus. The host is saying it used to be associated with police cars, and they’re drawing a similar comparison to the Explorer ST.
The Ford Crown Vic is a classic American police car model. In this conversation, it’s used as an example of a vehicle that looked official without being as overtly militarized.
An APC is an armored military vehicle used to move people while offering protection. The point here is that it shows up in a context that feels more military than typical policing.
The Jeep Grand Wagoneer is a large SUV. It’s designed to be comfortable and premium, with room for families. The podcast mentions it while talking about big SUVs in general.
The Ford F-150 Lightning is an electric version of the F-150 pickup. It’s designed to give truck capability while running on electricity. The podcast talks about whether it was priced too high when it first came out.
Term
out of the gate
“Out of the gate” just means right at the start, when the product first launched. They’re saying maybe the truck was priced too high from day one.
“Down market” means aiming for cheaper cars and customers who want to pay less. The host is wondering if Ford should have started with a more affordable approach first.
The podcast is talking about trucks in general rather than one specific truck model. The speaker is saying they don’t like something about a truck-related idea or design. No exact truck is identified in the mention.
The Chevrolet Corvette is a sports car made by Chevrolet. It’s known for performance and for being a famous model for decades. The podcast mentions the C8 Corvette because it was a big change in how the car was built.
The Ford Bronco Sport is a smaller SUV designed to handle light off-road driving. It’s meant to be easier to drive day-to-day than a bigger off-road SUV. The podcast mentions it while talking about the Bronco lineup.
An EV platform is the shared design and parts a company reuses for different electric cars. “Universal” here means they’re trying to use one main setup for many different EV models.
Normally a battery is just mounted in the car. Here, they’re saying the battery pack also helps support the car’s structure, which can change how the cabin floor and underbody are built.
The Ford Ranger is a pickup truck that’s smaller than many full-size trucks. It’s built for everyday driving and practical truck use. The podcast mentions it while talking about possible naming for an electric version.
A “paradigm shift” means a big change in the way you see something. In this case, the host felt the Maverick changed their expectations about pickup trucks as everyday cars.
Cruise control is what lets your car hold a steady speed without you keeping your foot on the gas. This segment is also hinting that some cars can have cruise control turned on again after it was removed.
“Flashing it” means reprogramming the car’s computer. People do this to change settings or unlock features—though it depends on the car’s hardware and software.
The Ford Maverick XL is a small pickup truck from Ford. Here, they’re talking about how features like cruise control can be added back in—and how that can change the price a lot.
The Hyundai Venue is a small, budget-friendly crossover. In this episode, it’s brought up because it’s one of the cheapest new cars you can buy in the U.S. for under $25,000. The host is using it to make a point about how prices have changed.
The Chevrolet Trax is a small, budget crossover. Here, it’s mentioned because it’s included in the group of cars the hosts say you can still buy new for under $25,000. It’s part of their argument about current pricing.
The Nissan Kicks is a small crossover. In this episode, it’s mentioned because it’s one of the cars the hosts say you can still buy new for under $25,000. It’s part of their argument that many other models now cost more.
The Kia K4 is a compact sedan. In this segment, it’s mentioned because it’s one of the cars the hosts say you can still buy new for under $25,000. It’s part of their point that many other popular models cost more now.
The Nissan Sentra is a compact, budget-friendly sedan. In this episode, it’s listed among the few cars the hosts say you can still buy new for under $25,000. It’s part of their broader complaint that prices have risen.
The Toyota Corolla is a very popular, budget-friendly compact car. In this segment, it’s included in the under-$25,000 list. The point is that the number of cars in that price range is shrinking.
The Mazda RX-3 is an older sports car model from Mazda. It’s known for using a rotary-style engine, which is different from the usual engine type in most cars. The podcast mentions it while discussing car options and preferences.
The Subaru Impreza is a compact car, and it’s often associated with all-wheel drive. In this episode, it’s mentioned because the host is comparing prices and saying the Impreza doesn’t feel as overpriced as some other cars. It’s part of the broader complaint about car prices.
The Toyota GR 86 is a small sports car. It’s designed to be fun to drive, especially for people who like a sporty feel. The podcast mentions it as something the speaker might buy, depending on details like color.
The Subaru BRZ is a small sports car. It’s built to feel nimble and fun to drive. The podcast mentions it as something the speaker might choose instead of another similar sports car.
A boxer engine is a sideways engine design where two sides move against each other. The pistons don’t go up and down like most engines—they move in opposite directions.
The Mazda 3 is a small car from Mazda. The hosts are basically saying that it used to feel like a great deal, but as parts get more expensive, the price can go up and that “deal” feeling can fade.
The Hyundai Elantra is a common, everyday compact car. The host is saying it’s the kind of car that seems nice enough that they wouldn’t mind renting one.
Term
components got so expensive
They’re saying car parts cost more now than they used to. If the parts are pricier, the final car price usually goes up too.
BMW’s 3 Series is one of their most common car models. The M3 is the sportier version based on that same general platform, and the host is saying the price difference is shocking.
The Volkswagen Jetta is a compact sedan that’s often positioned as a practical, lower-cost alternative to pricier European sedans. The host mentions driving a Jetta as a press car and says they liked it mainly because it wasn’t a crossover, highlighting how “sedan vs crossover” preferences affect what people consider “cheap.”
The Honda Civic is a popular, practical compact car. The host is basically saying that if they were choosing a cheaper car, the Civic would be their preference.
An interest rate is what you pay on top of the amount you borrow to buy the car. A lower interest rate can make monthly payments much easier to handle.
The Subaru Outback is a crossover that feels like a wagon. It’s made to be practical for everyday life and also handle bad weather or rough roads. The podcast mentions a 2023 Outback for sale.
LIVE
Let's just fucking go.
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Hello and welcome to episode 20 of Tranquilismo.
I can't believe we've been doing this for 20 episodes.
Yeah, it's not including the bonuses also.
So it's like we've done 24, 25 episodes at this point, which feels...
It's getting to the point where I have to number episodes in the edit when I'm doing like my file management.
I go, well surely not. That's too big a number. We just started this.
And then I go, oh fuck. No, no, no, no. It has been like, is this six months? Question marks?
Not quite. We started at the end of January, so we're close. We're close.
Anyway, I am your host, Victoria Scott. My pronouns are she and her, and I'm here with my co-host.
Hi, my name is Jordan Hofstetter, and my pronouns are she and her.
There's no triumphs this week to throw on the end there other than...
Victoria, can I tell you about a really bad billboard I saw in Chicago?
Oh please, go ahead.
My darling wife and I rode Chicago. We rode tripped the Ioniq over to Chicago and back, and only had one moment of panic where I almost got stranded in Sandusky, Ohio, which is how...
Do you know there's a NASA facility there?
Yes, I lived in that area, and I do know that there... I dated somebody who worked at that facility.
We were driving in the hopes that the Tesla charger I found that was a 350 kilowatt hour charger was...
I didn't realize... remember how when we made them the standard, they were supposed to open it all up to everyone, every Tesla charger?
You fell for one of the classic blunders.
I did. Someone quoted Matt Farah back to me, which is correct, that Elon says a lot of shit.
I'm sorry, I thought because we had made him God-King for like nine months and then made his charger the standard that he would maybe be a little bit of an adult.
Because it's just software. There's just hardware that I can't plug in. It just wouldn't let me start the charge on the app.
This is a very similar blunder to what I ran into when I had a Press EV9 and I was in Forks, Washington, desperately trying to put some juice on it so I wouldn't get stuck and have to live out the events of Twilight, the movie.
And I pulled up at a Rivian fast charger and I could plug in, but it was like, we're not giving you any juice. Rivian's gonna open this up eventually.
Eventually?
Yeah, I wrote about them opening up their charger network in the news and so I was like, well, surely they're open by now and they were like, oh, we pushed it back a little bit.
Cool. Yeah, Rivian also owns that a better route planner app now that everyone was yelling over to download.
Yeah, I posted the thread about our road trip. I guess we're just talking about it and then I'll get to the payoff to the billboard is not gonna be worth it, but we laughed too hard outside of our...
Yeah, I... Listeners, I got a little humbled by following for Press releases is the moral of this story because as far as I was aware, the entirety of the Northeast...
...Turnt Fike, all of the travel plazas were supposed to have either EVGO, Electrify America or Tesla chargers by 2026.
Sure, the year's not over yet, but every single one we had stopped at had just had one always, forever in my entire time.
That's like even using the Nissan, the Centro, which... Oh, my God, it was just a battery. It was just a battery.
That car's going away on the third and it's not going to be a lemon for someone.
Modern cars do such scary things when their battery is just kind of low and just about to die.
You're telling me that somebody could have a Nissan Centro with Podcaster Providence and not have to chase down wiring faults.
Yes, intriguing.
If you're buying a Nissan Centro for probably the Bridgeville Carvada in the next couple of weeks, that could be a Podcaster's car.
But yeah, so Stella and I set out Friday morning, start doing great time.
Honestly, the Ioniq is... I'm going to write a... I was waiting to do this road trip to write out my review for the Patreon.
Thanks to everyone who read my Forza thing, by the way. That was sweet.
So we had out... I didn't plan the charges ahead of time, because I thought we were at the point with the turnpike where you just kind of don't have to.
I fell for a press release and then after being humbled and having to get off the turnpike...
Your own personal Volkswagen.
Yes, it is. I still at least... It's not like... Those press releases were released on April 1st. They weren't a prank.
I at least... I fell for regular lives that journalists fall for and not like, you are maybe too dumb to do this for a living falling for it.
And it brings me no pleasure to say this, but like, if you fell for the Volkswagen thing, you should have to give a trans woman or a person of color your editorial job at a magazine or a website.
I'm sorry, you just got it.
And I know that it brings me no pleasure to report this.
But yeah, so then, divert from the turnpike into Sandusky, Ohio.
Victoria? I don't know what's going on in Sandusky, Ohio. Why are they trying to make it a beach town?
Like, I know the lakes there. There's two big indoor water parks that I saw alone.
There was a... Horde closed hotel called the Maui Sands that looked like you could film three backroom sequels in it.
There was the NASA facility that I apparently knew about and lived near.
I didn't live near it. I just... I lived in the area.
Okay, the move when I used to work a desk job in the suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio would be you wait for a day where you get a summer thunderstorm that like really pounds the area, but it stops by 3pm.
You leave work early. You cannonball it to Sandusky. And then you get the... you have it all day, you know, all year passed to Cedar Point.
You go ride completely vacant roller coasters at Cedar Point.
Oh, is Cedar Point in Sandusky? Is that why it's all built up?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, I was... I'm a little bit of a theme park enjoyer. Not a full theme park pervert, but like, I don't know.
I've been watching Defunct Land for since before it was like a thing we all did.
But, yeah, I... it's Christ. That's how it's so off.
I once got like... like 22 rides in like four hours before the park closed.
Like, I was absolutely like a roller coaster maximizer.
I have no interest in like theme parks and that the theming really doesn't do anything for me.
But I actually do really like roller coasters. I haven't been on one in ages, but...
I don't like going upside down, which really limits a lot of roller coasters for me, unfortunately.
So, I, you know, I appreciate a nice wooden roller coaster that'll beat the shit out of me in a way I enjoy at least.
Yeah, they had one of those that I think they've torn down since, or they were hybridizing it when I left.
I moved away, and this was five years ago, but like, it was very much a... I've got one of...
It was... there was never a line. I've got one of these rides in me because I need to give the bruises time to steep.
Yeah, before I read it again. The mean streak.
Yeah, at Kennywood, it's the Jack Rabbit, and it's like...
I think it's the oldest roller coaster, and at least... at least for sure, Pennsylvania.
Let me tell you, it feels like it. It feels like it's been shifting, uh, alligating land for a while.
Charging. Get to the Tesla charger.
The Tesla charger, I can't see of the Tesla app because when you put the Ioniq in the Tesla app to for, you know, charging parameters, whatever,
um, it just doesn't show that that charger is a real charger when I found it on Apple Maps, which I go,
ah, right, this is my foible, because I fell for it. Yeah, I fell for the other Tesla.
I fell for Elon's cool trick of establishing themselves as the standard, making other car companies use that standard and then still keep Tesla only parking spots.
Well, and I think it's intentionally kept opaque through the app because they fucking hate you.
Because you didn't give him a big chunk of money to go buy more elections with, and so they personally cannot stand you.
No, I bought a car that is comfortable to be inside and brings me joy to see, and I don't want to die when I'm in the...
I could ride at the back of the Ioniq 5 and just love life.
And the backseat of Eddie Tesla is worse than a Turkish prison, so I...
Yeah, um, anyways, to look out at the only other charger that is anywhere close to fast and tout is at a Cadillac dealership in Sandusky.
And it's a Cadillac dealer and a Chevy trucks dealer, and let me tell you, it felt real bad being the two lesbians pulling up in the little blue Ioniq and then having to just leave it there while we walk to the nearby Taco Bell.
Because it was either that or... I don't know, suicide? Yeah.
Mitsubishi.
Yeah, Mitsubishi, yeah.
But other than that little bit of almost catastrophe, EV Road Trip went great. Chicago's great as always.
I do it. I'm not saying this to dunk on you at all, okay?
I do think that that is a relatively small thing, but I will say it is very funny that we live in the richest nation in the history of the world, and like every single fucking EV Road Trip I have ever heard, including my own, always has this like,
Hey, so aside from the fact that the fundamental infrastructure to enable long distance travel via car that is required for EVs to be good had some sort of ridiculous, unbearably stupid flaw. It was great.
Yeah, it's... and I know I could have avoided this by just pre-planning my charges, which is actually... I thought I'd hate the rhythm of having to charge on a road trip, but actually as the person who's doing primarily most of the driving, it was really...
Those enforced breaks were really good for me because I never... I never felt like I was entering that like, I am pushing to stay awake, I am pushing to stay awake.
Yeah, you're not hypnotized.
Yeah, no, no, no.
It's just that the underlying technology, like the cars are good, the way that you can totally road trip with them, it's just that like we are allergic to building communally used infrastructure.
As evidenced by the fact the only place you could charge your car in a like... Sandusky is like their entire economy is based around having people come visit for theme parks, as you noticed.
The fact that the only place you could charge at was at a Cadillac dealership, presumably one that built it out so they could sell lyrics and I guess like escalate IQs or whatever to people, is just... it's... it is a damning indictment.
I did have to...
Everywhere on the... I mean my god, everywhere on that turnpike, you should never have to think about it, right? Like you're correct, it should be like gasoline. I don't... like I have only ever planned for... to get gasoline once in my life and it was when I was driving like US 93 through Nevada and even then, you barely have to.
It was only because I was getting terrible mileage driving up 13% grades in my van at 10 miles an hour that I was like worried about it.
Uh huh. I will say, I found basically the... I found the 60 miles of the Ohio turnpike that doesn't have charging on it.
Sure.
It was just a pure like, oh, I didn't plan... I didn't plan to stop 20 miles before I tried to stop when I just assumed that they all had them.
But why don't they?
Well, I... they're... allegedly they're supposed to be building them out at the remaining ones by the end of the year.
I...
We'll see.
They are... they are gonna take all that money and they're going to spend it on a new paint job for the reflecting pool.
And we both know it! Their new money is gone!
I just think that as... well, when we make Tesla owners a protected societal class, we'll have to.
And then I just won't... even though the... we made them the standard, I just won't be allowed to use them as a... as a career car owner.
In the Interagnum before we build the better America from the ashes of the old, we're gonna have two protected classes in America.
It's gonna be Tesla owners and Bowers.
Yeah, yeah.
But, anyways, this was all... I had a really great time. The Ionix Joy to drive.
I don't like its... I wish it had just... I wish I didn't have to cycle on the... I wish it just had regular cruise control.
The fact that it immediately...
Oh, it doesn't?
Well, you... it immediately enters into its, like, fully assisted driving mode when you do that.
And, well, I got used to it enough to feel comfortable taking my hands off the wheel to, like, take off a sweatshirt real quick.
Or crack open a drink. Obviously, like, an energy drink. I've not, I've fucking...
I'm not...
Road sodas in your life!
I'm not... just cruising.
I did... I...
You have to in Ohio, so it's understandable that, you know, you took to it.
I...
They don't let you drive with a BAC below .03.
Yeah, the dirty soda there just does have liquor in it rather than coffee, creamer, whatever.
Yeah, I had the Taco Bell while we waited. I did get a dirty Mountain Dew, but we ordered it inside because the car was parked, which meant that they just gave me a cup with just some cream in the bottom of it.
And I had to assemble it to myself, which was far more...
My wife's like, your cup of columnist here. I'm like, nice baby.
But, luckily, it's like really, it's good. I mean, you're dumping, like, coffee, creamer, a soda.
Like, Mormon nonsense has taken over the United States at an alarming rate, but, like, it's good.
I'm not gonna say it's bad.
But yeah, we ate that Taco Bell. I sheepishly told a woman at a lyric that we would be evacuating the single charger here in a second.
Oh, my God.
And then, yeah, we made it on our merry way to Chicago, no other issues.
Chicago has some great chargers.
Charged next to a guy...
It's a real city.
Yeah, charged next to a guy with... It is maybe the real of city.
I... This is the closest I have spent time in New York and Chicago back to back.
And I have come down on, actually, like, New York's the greatest city on earth.
I don't think I can live there ever, because I just don't... I love to visit.
I want to spend, like, a month there, a year.
I would live in Chicago until I died very happily.
Granted, I was born in Chicago. Like, so, you know, I have...
You hit the Illinois state line, you just, like, unfurl the flag.
Because for some reason, Chicago has the hardest city flag I've ever seen in my life.
It's really good. It's a really good flag.
Yeah, no, I'm, like, I'm just driving on Lakeshore Drive and I'm like, this is a fucking city.
Look at this.
Oh, that is just nice.
Everybody, I think, gets one city they go to where they're like, oh, damn.
I would become, like, annoyingly, like a this city supremacist if I moved here.
For me, it was Seattle and I moved here, which is why I'm incredibly annoying about, like, how much I love Seattle and how great it is.
It's a bummer that Pittsburgh and Chicago both have usually pretty awful winters.
Because it's like, ah, well, I summer in Pittsburgh and I winter in Chicago, but it's like, actually, I winter in Chicago.
That's how I just end up dead.
Summer.
Okay, but what was the billboard you saw?
Yes, outside the...
Hey, Chicago wins. You have...
This is going up on Thursday. You got two days as of your hearing this to go to Fry Like an Eagle, which was a vegan stoder food place that has walls and walls of CRT televisions of VHS collection.
It is... I can tell they are so bummed that they are going out, but...
Oh.
Well, they are right next to Logan Arcade, which is fucking awesome and was doing a Trans Pride fundraiser like three days after we were there.
So, yeah, great, great bar.
I drank some horrible brewing company for millennial adults and Gen Xer adults is making boozy Ecto cooler.
And it did... You want to talk about straight pond water, like straight, reflecting pool water? I was like, this is boozy. It's algae. This is good.
But out across the street, Stella and I noticed that there is a billboard where it just says...
This is definitely like a good organization. I'm not trying to drag them for what they do. They do great work.
If you... The billboard says they are America's number one HIV provider, which I feel like the word care is missing.
I feel like the word care is missing, right?
Like, I wouldn't name myself America's number one any disease provider because that sounds bad.
Unless I'm like taking care of people, in which case I think the word care is really...
I feel like I've seen this a lot with hospitals that do cancer treatments and stuff where they'll do...
We turn cancer into can or something and it's like... I don't think you can... I feel like this isn't the place to get cutesy with your language.
On the drive home, actually, no issues at all on the drive home.
Other than I did almost yell at a kid that he was going to blow the fucking voter on his 1.18 Jenna because it was running far too much boost for it to try to stunt at a sheet in the middle of Ohio.
That's all they have to do there.
That's what... Stella was like, what are all these kids and cars doing here at the Sheets?
I'm like, this is all they have here. This is all they've got. This is all there is to do.
Once you go out of listening to the corn grow, that's it. You can take your shitty Jenna down to the Sheets.
It's a rite of passage.
You're going to get an MTO and you're going to blow through three gears with your burple tune and then wonder why your Jenna just went into limp mode in front of you.
The road trip back was great.
I saw the oldest concert billboard I've ever seen still standing because it had a date for 2018.
Oh, wow.
Remember the first Trump administration?
Absolutely.
Yeah, COVID-2 date on that concert billboard.
And then it was an electronic billboard that I saw twice to make sure it was real, but it was just have epilepsy?
Don't worry, Daniel's got you.
It was a photo of a child and I think it means people with epilepsy have sympathy for...
I don't know what it was trying to imply other than that kid's got you and his name is Daniel.
So if you're having a moment out and about, Daniel's got you, I guess, if you have epilepsy.
Everyone else go fuck, Daniel doesn't care.
Childs couldn't care less.
Well, it would be cool if we could build EV infrastructure in the United States, but instead I've got more bad news.
Do you want to just get into the bad news?
I...
Are you in a place to receive information which could hurt you?
But it's not in for... This is news that can't hurt me in the same way, because I'm not surprised by this next news story, but like, I...
It's like the Steam that people are like, Steam gave a duel, has a cool new computer out that you can play video games on.
Yeah, the cube.
The game cube, yes.
The gaming... the gaming... the gaming kaba.
Yeah, I don't... friends, we're all pretty smart here, and we can... we can establish throughlines through different news stories about how they affect our...
I'm gonna even just use the word macroeconomic world view, right?
I don't know how can you be more surprised...
Alan Greenspan...
That it's a thousand dollars!
Build me a computer, a custom form factor for less than a thousand dollars.
Do it, you can't. You can't. Not what they can play video games.
Fucking idiots.
Alan Greenspan didn't... didn't die for this.
I just... I... like, yes, the... and yes, I've also shocked that the base one doesn't come with a controller. That's... that's a little disappointing.
But also, the PS5 came out six years ago, and it's 200 dollars more than it when it launched.
What point did you think that this was going to be a reasonable consumer product? Those don't exist anymore.
We fed a ball into Sam Altman's gay little hands.
Yeah, you... actually, this actually... I'm gonna get ahead of myself, but like, one of the things that I did look up for this episode is how much certain things have gotten more expensive, and by certain things I mean Ford products in the past like four years, and it's bad.
Like, I... I don't know a single person. I have not met a single person, including people who have moved into more lucrative careers, who is making as much money now as like normal purchases now cost more.
Do you know what I mean? Like, nobody's wage has kept up with what I would perceive the inflation rate to be, and I know somebody is going to quote CPI at me, and I... I...
CPI is useful in some contexts, but I do think that it ha... I have some complaints with it... broadly. Are you okay? Is BP screaming?
No, BP... I mean, she probably is somewhere. I was just... I heard a noise, and I wasn't sure if it was a thing that I needed to be concerned about or not.
Anyway, in the... in the continued sort of like decline of the EV as we enter the chud era, the Porsche, Taycan Cross, and Sport Turismo are dead.
Yeah, of course, in America.
Which if you need... no, they're dead, period. They're not making them.
I thought this was a... this was initially announced as a U.S. only thing.
They're... they're dead.
They've taken them out back and shot them.
Cross Turismo.
Yeah, it's... it's just gonna be the Taycan sedan.
I mean, which the Taycan sedan's not... not bad, right? Like, you know, we're still ha... it's not like they axed the entire line. They did ax the two wagons, which is like...
Yeah, but I like them.
Well, yes, of course we like them. They're good. But like, most things that enthusiasts like, they are actually uncoupled from the reality of what the people who have the money to buy these things want to spend on these things.
Well, now I can't tell if it's the U.S. or not, because Porsche said...
It was announced as... it was announced... Porsche of North America announced that it was completely gone. They are continuing to sell it in Europe as far as the initial announcement that I, uh...
God damn it.
Nope, not the Porsche Narcan. Why did I start to... ooh, I can't spell right now. Taycan...
Uh, I'm gonna let Beepie be also, because she is streaming and is apparently free, because that means the people in our house are gone now.
Oh my good god.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Oh, okay. I just confused the language you were correct. Uh, the Taycan...
So, again, let's look at them in Europe. So, once again, we just...
No, it's... yeah, it's...
...fuckin' fumble, like crazy here.
I thought you specifically highlighted it, because it was our theme of, uh, we can't, as Americans, have anything good anymore.
I thought that we were actually gonna drag down the rest of the world with us for once, and I got kind of excited.
I guess we are kind of doing that in general by making oil completely unobtainable for every country on Earth.
Yeah.
Sorry about that.
Uh, yeah, okay. Well, I guess we just don't get them.
Caleb Miller at Car and Driver pointed out that they sell, like, 4,000 Taycans total per year in the US.
Um, of which the... they don't actually, like, break them out, but we can presume that Cross and Sport Turismo's are, like, none of those.
Five.
For comparison...
Yeah.
For comparison, they sold 9,000 Muccon EVs in the US last year.
Which is crazy, because that means I'm either seeing, like, that either means that, like, half of all, like, Taycans, uh, Taycans to... ooh, I'm never...
I... that's one I've never, like, nailed my...
I don't hang out with Porsche press people a lot anymore, which is to say ever, which means that I don't get to go,
well, the Germans pronounce it, uh, any more confidently.
Um, but, like, I see the sedan all of the time here in Pittsburgh, and it's different ones.
So either Pittsburgh is, and then I never feel like I see a Muccon EV.
Like, never.
I have definitely seen a bunch of them.
I'm wondering if I'm just not recognizing which one's an electric Muccon EV.
Well, they sell... so they sell, like, over 30,000 Muccons total per year.
And, like, a third of those are... and this is again, these numbers are US-appropriate.
I did look that up.
We remain America-centric in this podcast as we document its decline.
Uh, but, like, I see them sometimes here.
They're noticeable because they, again, have this sketchers shoe problem, where they look too thick on the bottom end of them.
I don't, I don't know.
I think the Taycan is, like, one of the prettiest EVs that has hit the market.
Um, and I think the Cross and Sport Turismo's were the prettiest of those.
And I have seen, like, two of them in person, and they're gorgeous.
Um, but it's the same thing that happened with the Panamera, like, Cross Sport or whatever.
The wagon Panamera.
They canceled that in, like, 2023.
Um, so we just, we just don't get good things.
I hear people, like, there are going to be people who are like, well, they didn't really have that much room in them,
and it wasn't really that much bigger than the trunk, and it's like, do you not have an appreciation for aesthetics?
Do you hear yourselves talking about cargo volumes in a fucking Porsche?
Do you have much fully loaded, like, Sport Turismo cost?
Like, $240,000.
Yeah, I was about to say, that's, uh, it's...
I was listening to a smoking tire on the way to Chicago, and, uh, Matt talking about how the GT3 RS has been
and how the GT3 RS has gone up by, like, $140,000 since the start, like, from 2020 to now.
Like, Porsche prices have become so...
Remember when Porsches were kind of like the reasonable one?
I know we talked about this when we talked about all of the different 911s, but, like...
I'm just saying that, like, if you're spending, if you're spending a quarter of a million dollars
on, like, a world-beating electric car, what do you care if it doesn't have a ton of cargo space?
Are you telling me this is your one-car solution? I do not believe you.
No, no one with that much money is doing a one-car solution for fucking anything.
Yeah, I just, I don't know. I, again, I think that it's like, it was cool back when, like, Porsche made the Cayenne
because it was like, well, okay, fine, we're gonna use the money from this to build cooler and better 911s,
and I could kind of abide that, but the Macan thing has kind of, they haven't built any cooler or better 911s,
or really any other, like, the Taycan was the cool, like, new, innovative project, and it's mostly kind of flopped.
Like, it has not done as well as I don't think they wanted it to.
Even the Macan EVs, like, it's not selling as well as they'd like it to,
because Americans largely are not migrating to EVs as comparable with, like, gas cars, I think.
Also, like, this is where a lot of the luxury brands have gotten themselves in trouble by, like, highlighting their engine building,
and then not doing anything to highlight the level of craft that does go into making a very good EV.
Porsche did talk a lot about the 800-volt architecture in the Taycan, which I am the only, I think the problem is just that, like,
we've had a century of normalizing men being allowed to be enthusiastic about engines and drivetrains,
and we've only had maybe five years of, like, EVs getting the same kind of, like, glaze, like, you're allowed to be interested in this.
Nobody is going to think that you're, like, gay if you're excited about, like, the underlying architecture underpinning your EV.
And so, like, I was excited about it because technologically it's interesting,
but me being excited about it is not, it's not going to convince, like, you know, Dr. Manley, DDS, Esquire,
that, like, replacing his 911 with a Taycan is not a little bit gay because, like, it's me.
I am not going to be able to convince them of that. Porsche has to convince them of that,
and I don't think they've really, I think that that would require acknowledging the elephant in the room of their buyer audience too directly for them to ever attempt it.
No, yeah, their dentist, and plus, like, I don't know.
Think about how many of their dentist clients turn over every year into Cessna crashes.
Like, they just can't keep up with the level, like, these replacement dentists don't want.
You know, your first dentist has had his Carrera S for five years and then dies in a Cessna crash,
and then that Carrera goes to a new dentist who bought his first used Porsche.
So, like, they're just all in the 911 cycle, and as has America been since 2001.
But, yeah, it's just...
Speaking of Saudi Arabia.
Yeah, yeah.
Can I remember if they thought they'd do it to Canada?
I do. I think about that constantly. It's one of the funnier things.
It's one of those things that, like, you tell people and they don't believe you.
We still have the best wagon on sale in the US on sale, and that's good.
Which one?
The M5 wagon.
Oh.
I like it a lot. It's heavy, but also it looks spectacular.
I don't know. I think I might just hate BMWs.
I don't know what happened in the last...
I mean, we obviously didn't get the BMW we were looking at.
So it's not like I'm a BMW diehard.
Oh, I know what it is. I saw an E46 M3 on the turnpike, and immediately it got twist-full for mine.
And then I was just like, oh, that was probably what the better.
You became a homeowner and you were like, hmm, this BMW thing. This is kind of appealing to me.
It's first, uh, god, I missed that E46 M3. God damn it.
Anyway, on the note of Saudi Arabia, the lucid century of humiliation has also continued.
Speaking of EVs, getting their asses kicked in America.
Yeah, the...
I did see a lovely bunch of gay dudes in...
That's such a weird way to refer to two old gay men together in their lucid air sapphire in Andersonville the other day.
Ooh! You saw a sapphire?
Saw a sapphire.
That's crazy. I've literally never seen one outside of the press event.
It was. Because I'm like, that's just a lucid air that I started really looking at the details and I went, oh, no, you spent all of the money.
You gave the Saudis so much of the money.
Look, I get it. Okay?
And the Saudis still took a $300,000 loss on that car or whatever.
Yeah.
Anyway, lucid laid off 12% of their staff in February, which I think was outside of the purview of this podcast at the time. I don't remember.
We've passed 20 episodes, which means the event horizon is only about 10.
So if it happened before then, I'm kind of shaky on whether or not we actually covered it.
All of our listeners probably have a better idea of what I've said than I do, which is just endemic to being on podcasts.
I have learned this in real time when talking to people or checking emails or getting replies on lucid.
Every now and then, I made a really great point and I was like, did I? That's crazy.
My little sister listened to an episode and was like, who's really important? What was that about though?
And I was just like, huh? What?
So yeah, they laid off over a thousand people earlier this year.
They have now laid off more people as of Monday with layoffs of 18% of the company remaining, including the entire second shift of production at the Arizona plant.
That they build lucid Arizona.
Is that good? I'm sorry. How did I miss that they were assembling Vevit Arizona?
I don't know. They've got the press plates from Arizona because they have two factories.
They've got the one in Arizona and then they've got like one that I think is for the European market cars and the Middle Eastern market cars that is in the King Abdullah Economic Region or something like that, I believe.
Ah, so it got shaky.
No, no. I don't think they're going to waste a shed on a lucid plant.
They can continue losing tons of money for the Saudi Royal family without getting bombed.
The IRGC has made the tactical decision that lucid is enough of a drain on Saudi resources to just not engage with it. That's pretty good.
I think making people do any sort of manual labor in Arizona is violence. Please continue.
They have now laid off like 2,500 people out of a staff of what originally was 9,000 in less than six months.
Which is...
Is that good?
No.
No, and this is... it's so conflicting for me because despite the fact that they are bankrolled by the Saudi Royal Fund as entirely a greenwashing initiative, I think that they're good cars and I like them.
This is my... again, everybody's got their little sins they indulge in in mine. I was thinking the lucid air is actually like a good car.
Which isn't even strictly true because I don't know if you saw Jason Fenske of Engineering Explained.
Cool guy. He had one for like almost a year and he ended up getting it... they gave him his money back.
Like, he didn't even lemon-lot. He just kept talking about the problems it had and lucid was like, hey, we'll give you the entire purchase value of your car.
We'll take it completely off your hands. Please stop talking about it.
This is like... and it's always the same stuff. It's always electronics and the whole car is electronics. That's a problem.
His had a problem where it was just shifting into like... it wasn't holding even though he always had it to stop and hold.
So his car just started rolling without any warning randomly one day and that's when he was like, alright, I give up.
But like, the key fobs are terrible. I ran into this even on the press drive. Like, I thought maybe it was just me, but no, the key fobs are horrible and the remote entry doesn't work and the door handles aren't always super effective.
It just drives really nice, okay? It just... like, this is my fisk or ocean, I think is kind of where it is.
Is like, would I ever pay 70 to 250 thousand dollars for one new? No. No, I would not.
Even if I had that money, I wouldn't do that. But, would I pick one up in like three or four years for like 16 thousand dollars as a fuck around car?
Almost certainly. Almost certainly. And I would just be like, cool, I'm gonna... like, this would be the project that made me one of the like, open source hacker girlies.
Because I've never seen anything that I wanted to do with a computer where I was like, oh, I really want to get into the guts of this because I just find that process frustrating.
But for... if you were like, hey, you want to hack your car so your AC actually works, I'd be like, hell yeah, I'm completely down for this.
I remember there was a story a couple years ago about what a couple of these like first Chinese EV companies to die, what they were doing for like end of life software updates and stuff like that.
And I just have to imagine the Saudi Royal family having to keep 25 people working at Lucid until the end of time just because if not just to service their cars, like you know what I mean?
Like, I saw the gravity in the minivan or whatever, I saw it in New York.
Don't call it that, they will not be happy with you if you call it that, it's an SUV.
It's a minivan.
It's a minivan.
It's a minivan.
But it's an SUV.
It's... sure, that's a minivan.
I'm sorry, an SUV doesn't look like that.
No, it doesn't.
Is the ID buzz a minivan?
Or is the ID buzz an SUV?
Because I don't like know it's not.
Oh my god, I saw the electric escalates for the first time.
Yeah.
I got a... I can't go.
I got to stop people from making cars that big.
General Motors EV engineers are either like paving the way for a better future despite it all in the hopes that like future generations will pick up where they left off and create a better world.
Or they are like eight off Hitler.
I...
That's like the two EV engineers they have.
The GMC is the GMC Hummer and then the EV... the EV escalate or like...
Escalate IQ, yeah.
Did you accidentally hit like a hundred and twenty percent when you printed this?
Like, did you like... did you actually scale up the model too much?
Did you like do bad math?
Like...
No, no.
What we're just going to do is we're going to let bloggers write about how large SUVs are killing people and then the New York Times is going to repost that information every like three to five years and be like we just found this out.
It's crazy, no one knew.
And we're going to be like oh my god that's crazy.
And notably in the New York Times article they'll be like well no one can do anything about it.
It's just a pity.
And everybody will be like let's do something.
Shaking at the fucking proverbial fences.
And we'll never do anything because we've just given up on any responsibility for things to be better ever again for anyone.
But if you have... I don't know.
I don't even know what an escalate IQ costs. I don't care.
If you have... if you have... the escalate IQ is just like it's the perfect example of the SUV that drove me insane enough to quit my job.
Like it is... the contradictions are so fucking massive that it's like I don't know how you reconcile like this with the world we live in.
No.
But people eat that shit up so.
Yeah it's really... it is really something you know.
Like I remember when it driving a big dumb bad car was like a thing that was like...
People drove minivans because they had to.
People had a Wrangler if you wanted to go off-road or like a Forester if you liked camping.
I... we have gone so...
And I... it's gonna be fascinating to do the...
Like cause cars used to be way longer, right?
Like every sedan used to be a thousand feet long.
George Lucas driving through Harlem, etc. etc.
Like I... we have... we have done this big car, small car cycle before.
But not like this. Because this feels like almost like the overtone window of how big cars will get has forever shifted in a really bad way.
Yeah.
Jordan do you remember the scathing satirical film Over the Hedge by Dreamworks?
Hey, can I love with you?
When I was thinking about like movies, like I went through a roll of decks of movies like family comedies from the early 2000s about how big vehicles bad.
And Over the Hedge for sure was one of the things that came into my brain.
And this is the first time I'm thinking about that movie since I was probably...
No, I saw it on the back of a plane seat to Germany.
If you have not seen Over the Hedge 2006 in which I didn't know this because I saw this movie when I was really young.
It was like one of the movies I was allowed to see for some reason. I don't know.
Don't ask for an intro.
That feels edgy for your mom.
It was! It was the edgiest movie I was allowed to see so I loved it because I was like, oh it's like, it's like...
It was, it had more tooth to it than a lot of the other stuff I was allowed to see.
But apparently Bruce Willis is in it which I didn't remember at all.
I don't think I knew who Bruce Willis was then.
He's the raccoon. That's crazy.
Anyway, in this movie that came out in 2006, they use big SUVs and trucks as shorthand for...
This is the villain of the movie and they are either pathologically hostile toward nature.
Already, we're in the post-in-Inconvenient Truth world and so it's obvious that these are killing us.
So they just take that to its logical end point or the HOA obsessed neat freak who control lunatic type person.
I remember this from when I was 11 years old.
Yeah.
I don't know how we have somehow managed to overcome that cultural image with everything has to be an enormous SUV.
But you know, I guess...
We were talking about Lucid.
Fuck yeah, we were.
It's because the gravity's big.
Have you taken the stun damage from learning Bruce Willis?
Was it over the hedge?
No, I took the stun damage from you didn't know who Bruce Willis was in 2006.
What do you mean you didn't know who Bruce Willis was in 2006?
The first...
If you'd like a look into my parents' id, just as while we're on this sidebar, because this is going to be an episode made entirely out of sidebars.
That's right.
The first quote-unquote adult movie that I got to see as a kid, I must have been 14 or 15, was Die Hard.
Which would have been my first cultural awareness of Bruce Willis.
Because he is in Die Hard.
My parents allowed me to watch it completely with full dudes getting shot in the head, dead guy in the elevator, classic stuff.
Well, welcome to the party, howl, etc.
But they did make me look away in the two seconds in which someone's tit is visible on screen.
My mom insisted that you have to look away now because she knew it was coming.
That's kind of the level of American ideology I was operating on, which is that at the age of 14 or 15, it is totally cool to watch a cop murder a bunch of people.
But it is not cool to see two seconds of a single tit.
I can't go down the morality of Bruce Willis killing people in an action movie, because those are the kind of leftist movie critiques where I go, this is why people think we're fucking good.
No, no, I love Die Hard.
I just bristled at the word murder.
Okay, look, Alan shoots a butt-
He dropped that man off a building.
He gets self-defense.
He shoots a lot of people. It is a pretty violent movie.
If you're like, here's your first R-rated movie, just jump straight into the deep end of action, shoot him ups.
TIT, not allowed.
Cards fully on the table. My first R-rated movie is another reason why I like this TM.
Oh shit, oh my god.
I just moved to Texas. The year is 2002. It's either late 02 or early 03. I can't remember which.
My dad bought the big fuck off television he wanted, which was a CRT big screen, which meant it was considerably the size of the room I'm recording in right now, because we had a big Texas stupid suburbs house.
I like Mansion Hell, but boy, howdy, could you buy a big house cheap in Texas back then? Holy shit.
But we, oh god, my dad, I get home from work, my mom's not there, and my dad just goes,
Jordan, I bought a DVD player and I'm going to calibrate it with The Matrix. We're going to watch The Matrix together.
Oh my god.
He had seen in theaters with my mom right when I came out, because I was three in 1999.
Let me tell you, seeing The Matrix with my dad, I feel like the furniture was all out of place.
I remember doing, I think we just watched it mostly stand-in together.
And like, a classic way to watch a movie with your dad.
That's a way you watch a movie with your father. I watched Iron Eagle with my grandfather on a tiny little CRT television in my grandparents' kitchen one time I was up here in Pittsburgh.
And I, what? Once a man becomes, once a man reaches the age of 35, he goes, the optimal way to watch a movie, stand solidly at parade rest.
Anyways, watching The Matrix that early and not being told to look away for anything is probably why I am the woman I am today.
That and all the avagold my mom used to play on road trips. Those were the two dad made we watched Ghost of the Shell together.
My dad's so cool. He made the world's transist woman.
It's crazy.
Yeah, well in any case.
You're a wholesome, right? Yeah, they're, I think you, I had more notes, but like honestly, this is boring.
They lost this is this pales in comparison to the over the hedge cultural analysis.
Yeah, but like they lost a billion dollars in Q1 2026.
So I hope all of the 2500 people they laid off made $400,000 a year.
A quarter, sorry, 400. I hope they all made $1.6 million per year each and they produced no revenue for the company.
Do we know why they're hemorrhaging so much money still? Is it just components? Or is it just like, I think troubles?
Well, so if you'd like an example, they, they did deliver more vehicles in 2025, but in Q1 2026, they produced 5500 vehicles, but they only delivered 3093, which is a very different number.
And also that's basically flat from the year prior.
So I think that with the evaporation of the tax credit and general like their teething problems are not resolving.
They also couldn't sell a bunch of gravities that they were expecting to because they had a rear seat recall because nobody can build seats or interiors anymore, I guess.
So I think, I think it's a combination of a bunch of factors, but I do also like, I think the big thing is like they are not supposed to be at the stage where they are necessarily super profitable yet, right?
Lucid's whole thing from my loose understanding is that like, you know, disgruntled Tesla engineers like, well, we should do this, but less stupid.
And so does the Model S and X again, which is the air and gravity, but like without making them dumbass cars and actually does like platform sharing and you know, tries to make them better.
And the next car they're supposed to make is supposed to be the one that's going to like be volume and make money kind of like R2, R3 with Rivian.
I think the thing is that like, I think money got expensive in a way that like they weren't, this is me stabbing in the dark.
So like this is, I wouldn't take this as like investment advice.
But like, I think that they basically realized that like, oh, you know, loans are expensive.
The Saudis don't really want to spend a ton of money on this anymore because they've got a lot of stuff boiling over right now with the...
Shout out LVGolf.
Thank you. Yeah.
Shout out all the guys who could ever go back to a PGA tour without having to do like a fucking public humiliation ritual.
Like, say what you will about Tiger Woods.
He told the Saudis to fuck right off and then immediately flipped the car while drunk.
So...
Allegedly.
Nope, it was on video.
I don't think we have to...
And even then, if I'm not talking about this current time he just did it, I didn't talk into any of the other times, the Tiger.
He is our greatest drug driver.
And by that, I mean, he shouldn't do it and it's very alarming and no one should do it.
But like...
Ohio is giving him an honorary citizenship, like a key to the state for his contributions to the truck.
A key to a state that you're then immediately supposed to just puncture into the side of a Miller High Life can?
Yeah, well, so I...
Again, this is a car company that is a problematic wood.
I can't wait to buy one of these for $18,000 and get the coolest 24 year old transsexual woman I've ever met with hair in colors that currently don't have classification on the IR spectrum
to show me how to like put run doom on it.
Yeah, that'll be fun.
I thought you were going to talk about putting a cigarette on a woman half your age here in 12 years when you have...
No!
No!
No!
She goes,
Can I...
Can I call?
Can I call you Bob?
Like...
No, please, let me...
I just hit...
I just hit my six year hormone anniversary.
Don't make me imagine being older.
Muscle top.
I already feel old.
We are...
Six years isn't very much time, but in transgender years that's a lot.
We're five days after my six years.
I just now realizing...
Wait, are you serious?
Yeah, it was June 17.
Are you kidding me?
Yeah.
So was mine.
Did we start on the same day?
We started on the same day.
Wow, listeners, that's the secret sauce of this podcast is because we've been...
Oh my god, we truly are yin and yang in a very odd way, huh?
We really are, yeah.
Anyway, I have more stuff.
This episode is so far off the rails.
I apologize to our listeners who wanted to hear like actual automotive industry news.
We are free-styling today.
However, this is going to be a great one.
This is going to be fun.
People are going to like this.
I don't know.
I feel like people are...
At 20 episodes in, this is when we can do a silly one.
And no one will notice.
All right, this is the silly one.
All right, well, I do have more news for us to cover actually.
It's not really news.
I just wanted to take the piss.
So as you're familiar with Ford, the car company that builds the SUV for cops.
The SUV for cops and then had nothing to do with the business plot.
Cool, got it.
Yeah, don't ask about their founders views on Adolf Hitler at any point.
Or what he did in Brazil.
So Ford decided they would offer a package on the Explorer ST, which is the like, basically
the police interceptor motor dropped into a regular Explorer.
That is, they're calling it the sinister package.
That is the actual name.
I would like to read from the press release for you.
Is that okay?
I mean, I'm going to be wincing the entire time.
Yeah, that sounds good.
They're really doing it.
Is Tim, is Tim from Ram moonlighting at Ford?
And you're going to call it sinister and it's going to not be woke and you can't make it
woke and the Explorer ST is woke and it's got a thin blue line flag on the back and
you can't take it off.
Quote, the ST badge became a pride point for a community of enthusiasts who don't just
love their SUVs, rather they live in them and treat them as an extension of their identity.
I'm sorry.
This is the first SUV to have the ST magic.
You can't just say that.
Are you calling the Ford Focus and are you calling the Ford Focus ST or SUV?
Are you calling the Fiesta ST?
Oh, I also I also really do love the phrasing the direct quote of they live in them at an
era in which like shockingly living in their cars at rates that would should have shame
any wealthy country.
But you know, we're just let's keep going.
Ford is rewarding that passion by taking the ST badge and paying homage to the aftermarket
community who've made it their own end quote.
It features blacked out aggressive appearance featuring dark accented ST badging, amber glowing
running lights and massive 21 inch gloss black wheels all delivering that sinister aesthetic
end quote.
So they are doing for presumably several thousand dollars.
What anyone yes could do with like, I don't know, rhino liner for a dollar or whatever.
What's gloss?
It's gloss.
So it's fancy.
But also it was specifically the inclusion of the amber glowing running lights where I
was like, oh, you've made a car for fascists.
Yeah, because I don't know about you, but like all of the SPD Ford Explorer SUVs have
amber lights on them.
And they're like running lights, little DRL things.
Those are all yellow.
I feel like ours and you can like change.
You hear in Pittsburgh, I think they're all white still.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, it's a it's a simple code change, apparently, to fix it.
And a bunch of people on like the ST Explorer ST forums of which they exist.
I'm sure none of them are listening to us because why would you be listening to us?
But they were all like, we could do this for free already.
I can't believe you're going to charge a bunch of money for this.
This is a stupid cash grab, which yes, but I just find it funny that like, I have spent
my entire career at this point as an automotive journalist, writer, expert, whatever the hell
you want to call me, talking about like how the id of fascism intertwines with like the
our cars and the way that we perceive ourselves in relation to them and the way that they
project themselves in the road.
And basically Ford is like, that shit's cool.
I love that.
Would you like to buy that?
I'm going to smack down a copy of Freud on the hood of my Explorer ST sinister edition
and I am not going to read it.
I don't remember in 2020 when they almost got convinced to stop building the Copics
store.
And now I don't remember this specifically because I think I was going to insane.
That's fair.
That's fair.
Because again, I started hormones in June.
That's uh-huh.
I just won.
The Explorer ST, I have only ever seen driven by people.
I think are probably assholes, which it's I'm going to take you through a thought exercise
that I was having while trying not to black out and rage about how they are talking about
my beloved ST line.
Yeah.
Remember that like the Taurus SHO, the last one was basically the cop Taurus.
Yes.
I don't have the visceral negative reaction to seeing a Taurus SHO out about like I do
the Explorer ST and I can't and I'm almost charmed by seeing Crown Vex out and about
now because I know they're not like none of those are still cop cars and if they are,
it's a department I never want to interact with because they have $5 and those are a
bunch of good old boys who will make me disappear in the desert somewhere.
Or they're like some do nothing rich town cop like vanity cops or whatever.
Yeah.
It's pretty rare.
I think they're pretty much all gone at this point.
Yeah.
I don't see an Explorer ST out and about without getting like irrationally like, oh, what the
fuck are you doing?
Why would you spend money on that?
Like because it just feels like cop cosplay.
Yeah.
There is.
So, you know, the first story of my career was about big vehicles and why Americans cannot
stop buying them.
And nothing has really changed since then.
This is the author.
There's a story called about face.
It's a comic.
It's like a web comic thing.
You read online.
I'll post it in the show notes.
But by Nate Powell, it basically talks about, you know, kind of the aesthetics of imperialism
coming home as fascism and the way that it kind of like the military look kind of morphs
into the cop look and then fascists kind of adopt the new cop look and it sort of blends
into this paste.
And I think a big part of why like the cars and it's a great comic and it talks about
kind of like how these trucks are sort of inextricably linked with sort of fascist ideology or even
if people who drive them are not fascist themselves, but like they are essentially, you know, the
militarization of aesthetic because that's where we are headed as a country.
And I think the big thing about like seeing an old tourist SHO or like a crowd of Vic is for me,
it's twofold, right?
Like for one, I was not always aware of how institutionally racist the United States was
at that point in time.
So it was easier for like, I always have been, been kind of like an ACAB type
even when I was in college, even before I like radicalized fully because I just never have
trusted them.
But I, you know, so there's that part of it and I don't want to like discount my own lack
of knowledge as like part of my nostalgia, but I also do think part of it is that like
cop cars used to be distinguishable from like military vehicles and it used to feel like
there was a little bit more separation between the aesthetics of local police and fascist
Goon squads and there is none anymore.
And an explorer is like every time, this is really kind of like actually something that
I feel very closely about because like there's a lot of cities in which ICE is operating.
They don't, you know, in Seattle we've seen a handful of like the, you know, ICE marked,
you know, the stupid Trump livery SUVs or whatever.
But by and large, it's like from what I can tell, it seems like it's like all on marked
shit and it's always blacked out to Rangos and explorers or whatever, you know, big fucking
fascist SUVs.
And like the goal, it's like the same thing I talked about with like Harley and like the
episode about Robbie Starbuck, right?
Where it's like the goal is to pass as authority.
Yeah.
And like I think the, the, the SHO, the Crown Vic, you know, the car ones passed as authority
with like a slightly less, you know, Punisher's skull kind of aesthetic to them.
And so it felt less violently bad.
Now granted, I also lived in a small town in Ohio and I like, you know, the cops were
not like, they did not have big scandals.
I didn't live in cities that were the cops had big scandals until Houston.
But even then in Houston, you know, by the time I really, like really interacted with
Houston police, they were leading off the Pride parade with an APC.
Yeah.
Victoria, I'm going to ask you a personal preference question.
This is more just, if this isn't true to you, then feel free to disagree with me.
I don't feel the same level of revulsion to jerk.
God damn it, Bebo.
I don't feel the same level of revulsion when I see like, even like a G 63, like I don't
see the G 63 and I go, that's a fascist vehicle.
I go, oh, you've got more money than you do taste.
Like I, I don't think it's inherently evil in the way that like an expedition is, you
know, and I don't, like a big Mercedes, it could even be like an AMG, like GLC 45 or
63 or whatever.
And I just go, that's a big dumb SUV.
Like I don't know if you should have like, I don't know if we should be making AMG SUVs,
but I don't know if we should be making SUVs, but also I think it's cool that you bought
the AMG one.
And like I, but then it's like, I see an SRT-H Durango and I go, hello human resort.
Like I, I don't like, why is it specifically, is it just because the American ones are the
ones getting like paraded around by fascists because they're usually like the American
like, I'm not saying that the G class odor is a good person, but I'm just saying I, I
think I could have more of a friendly interaction with the G63 owner.
Yeah, I think a lot of it is just like the, I think you're, you're probably correct in
that like the Explorer, the Expedition, the Durango, the, the, now the Grand Wagoneer
or whatever, all are kind of like the American fascist vehicles.
And I think a lot of people have had bad experiences close by a cop Explorer, given that like the
number of people that got, that got up into the streets in 2020 implies that like the
Explorer was a pretty formative vehicle for a lot of those people.
Because like, and this is again the thing where it's like, they weren't even, they don't
even necessarily have to roll out the APCs now for you to see the militarization of cops
or them to appear like an enemy, right?
Like even if you are like unaffected by like police brutality personally, or you are, you
know, from a demographic that has, doesn't historically have, you know, bad context with
the police, it is getting increasingly difficult to pretend they are not just like fascist storm
troopers because they don't care about pretending they're not.
And they never have, depending on the area you live in, obviously there's a ton of nuance
to this, but this is just kind of like what I feel like society, what has happened in
American society after, specifically like the George Floyd protests, is like it is now kind
of universally like we fuck you, we hate you, unless you are like one of the 30% of people
who still like Trump, right?
Like it's just like, it's a clean break.
I don't think the stuff that like, you know, people who are a lot less radical than me believe
about the cops now would have been unimaginable during like Occupy Wall Street era, or like
even like Invasion of Afghanistan era, you know?
Oh God, yeah, I...
Like this, look at, you can see polling data on it, like it's, people genuinely are more
aware of how bad their government is than ever, and it's a combination of, you know, genuinely
like heightening evils, and also just like no longer caring if we are, like it's, this
is the whole project of the past like fucking, you know, I mean 50 years if you want to go
back to Reagan, but it's the project of the second Trump term, right?
It's to be like, actually it's so I to pretend to be a force for good, and I think that people
have responded to that.
And I weirdly, I don't know if it's just because of like, I have been soaking in the good vibes
of two cities that have like, resoundingly rebuked that, but like, between everything,
doesn't it kind of feel, I was talking with Stella the other night when we were out at
the, we were out at dinner, and I was just like, it's kind of feeling like between Iran
and the fucking catastrophe of the reflecting pool and like the Kennedy Center, and like,
it just kind of feels like the juice has run out, like it like kind of like it did the
last two years of the first Trump administration, where it feels like racist
grandpa's board, and he really just wants to focus on like, what an old queen for the
ballroom from Manhattan wants to do, which is just decorate.
He's from, I thought he was from Queens.
Yeah, he's a queen from Queens.
Yes, you're correct.
Like, but like, he just this being old, somehow not gay man just wants to be left alone and
not have to go to his son's third or fourth wedding, whichever one it was.
And he wants to watch, watch the big beefy bed fight on his lawn, and he wants
to re-bottle his goddamn ballroom.
And other than that, like, it just truly feels like everyone below him in the administration
is like, JD Vance is the most cooked man on earth, it is being made to be the sin eater
of the Iran War, Hesketh is in a bush somewhere, like.
Yeah, Lindsey Graham is on Meet the Press.
Rich McHotel could be dead.
He went to the hospital eight days ago, and I've heard nothing since, so like,
Garmadotl's dead.
Like, I just, it's, it's, it's bad, it's not looking good.
It's like, it's not looking good.
If the terms go the way that I, they based on early polling data, they will.
It's just like, ah, cool, we, yes, the administration has just, and again, Americans are stupid.
The fact that like, 30% of people voted to like, actually, 2017 and 2018 fucking rocked.
And then we're just like, let's, let's do it again, but like, bigger.
And then it's just, it's just fizzled out after ever, because everyone's like, ah, gas is expensive, and like, fucking, we keep feeding planes to wolves, and we keep like-
Well, and also, I mean-
Nothing works anymore?
If you'd ever, if you'd ever like to go fully insane, just ask the prototypical polled, you know, average American.
I'm not saying that the average person believes this, but like, at least the people who answer phone calls for polls are like, I would like, I do not like ICE arresting people in my neighborhood.
I also think the US should have a draconian immigration policy that basically is doing exactly what it's doing.
And like, it would be cool if somebody could message around that and be like, hey, you want irreconcilable things.
What if we built the society where your neighbors are safe?
But that would, I'm gonna let myself turn this into a politics podcast if I continue.
Are we not a politics podcast?
It is, the tagline is a podcast about auto culture, car culture, the decline of empire and motor sports.
But I feel like I've been very heavy on the decline of empire.
Well, it's declining all, it's hard to not be focused on the slope when you're skiing down it.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's almost irresponsible to not focus on the steep decline when you were rocketing down it at speed.
Yeah.
Yeah, I just, it's, it all feels juiceless.
And it's even like, it's what makes these like, they're gonna sell a bunch of that ram rumble, be sure.
They're probably gonna sell a bunch of this like ST package, but like, it all just feels...
Probably not that many.
Yeah, it also just, it all just feels so warmed up and like half-hearted.
And like, this is, you actually, the fascism where we've got to get out of the fascism business.
Like, what else is like, you know, it's our next line item, so I'll let you lead it away.
But like, Ford's like, like, oh, did we make a f***y wucky making VF 150 lightning too expensive out of the gate?
Did we need to go down market first to make this work?
Like, and I, yes, the slight pricing that leaked is not official and I think everyone's reacting, but also like, I feel like we're about to see, I don't know, I have to, this is my hope, is that stuff is going to get not good.
Because we bet, we all as Americans need to work for things to actually be good.
And we need to organize to get to the future and the present we want to live in and deserve to live in, in a country as powerful and as wealthy as ours.
However, I do think that like, this current moment is fading.
And I don't think it's not going to lash out and get worse. I think there are going to be pockets of things to get way worse still.
Especially if the midterms go bad and then you just have 45 men with the worst, with double Hitler opinions all being like, these elections were stolen, all of this is illegitimate.
Like, you're going to have that.
Yeah, we get to play a fun game during the midterms this year, which is, is that masked man with an AR-15 simply next to his Explorer ST sinister package?
Simply a law abiding American citizen concerned about his civil, you know, the institutions of his country? Or is that an ICE agent?
Yeah.
Who knows?
Yeah.
I mean, like, it's just, it's, for me, as the yin and tee are yang, I think that it's just, I, I agree that it's useless.
But I think that it will still do a ton more harm, which is kind of why I've sort of been in the headspace I've been in, because like, I, like, yeah, the sinister package Explorer ST isn't really, it's not going to do any material harm.
But it's just, I think for me, it's like, this has taken such deep hold, like America needs to be denazified after this.
Call it second reconstruction, which we also need to do.
But like, I just think that like, the, the cultural power we give the totems of fascism in this country is going to haunt us forever, if we do not make a concerted effort to stamp it out.
Oh yeah, we're going to have to do that.
I'm not, I would not endorse the stasi, but you kind of understand where they came from on that.
We're going to have to do like, generations of, and like, the amount of damage that was done in this, even in this just second Trump administration alone is unbelievable.
And we're going to have to do so many things if we want to reform this deeply bad country, which I still, I will join you on the project of trying, but I'm also going to not, you know, I, it's sick.
And one half dozen of the other, I'll, I'll give it a shot.
But also, I don't, I don't know if we could poke him on, go to the polls are way out of this because also my goal was to go to the polls was to go for work.
So good.
Pikachu is implicit.
I mean, I think the thing for me is just like the sinister package is just kind of like a small representation of the problem that, you know,
all Americans want nothing more than to be cops.
We can only, we can only imagine wearing the boot.
When in reality, you should be imagining yourself wearing the beige overcoat and the Colombo maxing if you're going to be any sort of authority figure.
We must, we must, we must undergo a project to what Colombo five propaganda again and to
what, what is a constitutional amendment, but just one more.
Exactly.
Speaking of just one more thing, Victoria, you want to get into our last line item?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I guess we should end, we should end the episode at some point.
So I should finish this up.
It's not like I have a day job to get back to you anymore.
I know, but I feel like I feel bad about our episodes are two hours.
It feels like homework for people.
Victoria?
It's time to talk about the electric.
How long is the most recent main feed episode of your other podcast?
It's not my other podcast.
I am a temporary guest co-host and it was four hours.
Uh-huh.
Look, as long as we're coming in at two under two, brisk, brisk work for our podcast.
It is time to talk about the electric pickup truck that everyone won't shut up about.
No, not that one.
The Slate info is going to release before this episode comes out, but it is going to release
after we are recording it.
And I don't want to bother with talking about what the price might be until we actually know
what it is because I like to be a well-informed hater.
I don't like the Slate truck.
A lot of that is just kind of like I don't like Jeff Bezos and I think that they are,
as Kevin Williams correctly pointed out, selling a Spartan vision of the future that is predicated
in a lot of toxic masculine bullshit.
That's it.
We'll talk about that more probably next week when it actually drops.
But Ford has built a teaser website for the new $30,000 Ford electric pickup that they
are showing in a heavily camouflaged test video of it doing like snow testing and doing
six skids.
They've got a sizzle reel of manufacturing, a promo video addressing people who found out
by the truck by scanning a QR code in the camo, which is actually kind of like a fun
girl marketing campaign idea, honestly.
That's actually a, especially with like the usual makeup of auto maker camo.
I, please sidebar, many years ago I bought a pair of thank you dunks that were auto camo
and oh yeah, that's cool tell.
My feet changed too much for me to keep wearing them without blistering by heels and now I
can't find another pair in an actual size I wear and it is deeply upsetting to me personally
as a woman who will still wear speakers with a with a nice dress because that is the dumb
dirt bag mom aesthetic I do.
Anyways, I think putting a QR code in the camo is the perfect like look if the QR code
made a huge comeback and like we're still going to keep doing like the black and white
dazzle camo that doesn't really doesn't really do too much anymore like yeah let's do it.
That's cute.
Yeah, I think it is cute and it also I think it's interesting to see that Ford is leaning
into this like hype building process because I remember it was a big deal at least it was
kind of for me to just remember when the C8 Corvette came out.
Do you remember that?
Yeah, fondly.
And they didn't unveil it at during like an auto week they didn't do it at a car show
they they made their own event and flew a bunch of people out to it and they basically
owned a media cycle in an otherwise boring period of like automotive news for like a
week or two.
Yeah, they turned it perfect.
And I feel like it's interesting.
Yeah, I feel like it's interesting that like the the logical extension of that is sort
of building hype the entire time you're working on the car.
What's up?
I was just, speaking of the Corvette, I still think do you remember the Corvette C7 cycle,
which of course Jalotnik like leaked it however many years before that thing actually hit the
road, right?
Do you remember when they put the like cladding like the black blanket camo version of it
in Gran Turismo 6 sport or 6?
Yes, yes.
Like that is still one of my favorite like here's a pre-production car that you can play
with in this video game because it's smothered in climbing.
That is still one of the like the cultural cache that Gran Turismo hasn't had is still
one of those things that is I don't think you could organically create today, but I
know I do love it.
I Ford Ford would drop this in Forza Horizon 6 is what they would do actually though and
that that's yeah, but yeah, I you would win it during a wheel spin and you'd be you'd
also get six other cars in the transaction and then you would drive past a car painted
with a slur.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, it would kind of just like fall into the endless array of cars in your garage
and you would forget about it.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Because they they've managed to like burn out everybody's dopamine receptors so now
cars can't be special in video games anymore.
This is just old woman yells at cloud.
That's a little bit yeah.
But no, I like all these damn kids were their fortnight.
I can escape the amazing digital circus and I don't want to know anything about it.
And I other than I know that the cloud and the bunny who's trans I guess is
is in fortnight now.
Good for them.
It's good for them.
I don't know what you're talking about.
It's a movie made by a trans.
I'm going to go home.
It's like every every web show for like teens and 20 somethings feels like Spencer's gifts
to me now or I'm like I don't know if this is for me and if I can interact with this.
That's that's fair.
I mean, yeah, my wife has home stuck t-shirts and that kind of feels like that for me.
And I was I was of age when the home stuck was coming out.
The first hundred pages of home stuck under the under the instructions of a friend and
that I just had to come back and go, Hey, I did a hundred pages of this thing.
You said that would be more than enough to hook me and I think this is dog shit from
a butt.
And I can't join you on this because I'm worried I will start to think less of you because
of it.
It's just like shits Creek another show.
I I Oh, yeah.
There you go.
You can think less of me now.
I love that show.
It was just not.
I thought it was really funny.
It was not for me.
I'd watch the first season and then I get told this is such a fascinating episode for
us because it's the Jordan Hader, Victoria, joyful and unencumbered episode.
Yeah, I think you're doing better than I am right now mentally, which is I don't know
how to do you want me to do you want me to call 911?
Are you currently safe?
I did almost have to do a groupie sock vacation in Zoran, but I did it.
There we go.
Let me annunciate that properly.
I got to it bad, but I'm okay.
I'm fine.
I've done the force before.
I feel like they're doing like a better they're doing a better hype cycle than this than like
the like the Bronco and Bronco sport because we we yeah, I think so too.
And I guess we've known this one was coming for a while, but like we again, we knew the
exact like dimensions of every part of the Bronco and the Bronco sport before they hit
because yeah, that was the leakyest development team that I think a major automaker has had
since the C7 Corvette.
But also I feel like you're hearing about the new Bronco since the C7 Corvette was also
a I feel like that was a car that had a 10 year dev cycle or whatever.
Yeah, a team of auto engineers that all really enjoy war thunder in their off hours.
Hey, speaking of which, listeners.
I think that might be bad for your job.
We got one email that had some photos attached to it that I'm not even going to give more
details than that.
But I think you might have you know who you are.
You might have accidentally given us a very detailed photos of anything that you shouldn't
have or I'm overreacting.
But still, I unless you want to leak like things that we can talk about.
I don't want to accidentally blow up your spot.
It's funny.
I don't want to the trade grillesbow worth under counter.
I don't want that meme.
I want that to be a oh, I do.
Sure.
I would like to be a geopolitical threat.
That's my whole aesthetic.
Yeah, you are.
You know, you have your dong fenn.
Is that with the name of the missile is it's a dong fenn.
It's my df it's my it's my df 5c.
It's it's Burt's nuclear deterrent.
It's my fleshy curled up with it right now.
I'm sorry I I move past the fate like I had a blah I blahage whatever you want
to call it for a long time and I passed it.
It's time for it's time for the nuclear plushie deterrent.
Uh-huh.
Anyway, as far as the Ford right, I'm really struggling.
I'm sorry.
This is the sloppy is podcasting I've done in a long time.
I think it's really.
I think it's really good actually because we're hitting the notes.
We're just you know.
Um, so anyway, we got a couple of videos.
There's not a lot we can tell from the videos of them that I did notice the sides of the
bed look really tall.
And if I had to guess, it's because the it's they're building it on the universal EV platform
which has a structural battery component.
And I'm guessing that causes a high floor.
It's the same sketch or two problem that every other EV has.
And so in order to give the bed enough depth, they have to make it like relatively tall
for a truck that is supposedly Maverick is shrinkish sized.
I don't think we have exact dimensions yet.
And it was hard to tell from the video exactly.
I think they'd probably go bigger than the math, right?
I mean, I see a lot of Mavericks.
Yeah, I think it's somewhere between the two.
We might have exact data and I just don't know it to be clear, but I it's it's a compact
truck.
It is supposed to be $30,000.
Notably, notably, it does have four doors, which means that people might actually buy
it unlike the slate.
Yeah, I I do find it odd that they're doing this as a standalone new model rather than
just making that I wonder if they are hedging their bets that doing it as a standalone name
plate, which it would be interesting to see what legacy name plate they would attach to
this thing or what new name plate they would.
You mean basically going with like a new EV name instead of like Ranger EV or something?
Yeah, or like Maverick EV.
Because like the Maverick survey, I know that hybrid sells pretty well.
That yeah, yeah, they're great.
I if they weren't miserable to be inside and I didn't want to be a pickup lady, I almost
bought one.
There was also a year and a half which also was pretty alarming.
Yeah.
I will say that it is kind of weird that they call the manufacturing test line for this
vehicle the Chapel of Love because they they merge the bad platform and the body together
on it, I guess.
It's a marriage.
I just really think that there's some Freudian shit going on it for now.
And if you need to talk, we're here for you.
Yeah.
Self-sessed Ford truck EV mating process is that's a little alarming.
It's it's one of those things where it's like, I think it's his people just say things
sometimes and then forget about what they've said.
I was every trans woman has thought deeply about the psychosexual implications of every
sentence she's ever uttered.
That's true.
Mostly.
Um, I it's going to look.
I also like I feel like there are.
I feel like the Hyundai and Kia EVs all kind of hide the tall floor a little better than
most.
Yeah, they do.
I feel like the new leaf is really bad.
Also have we been calling what is actually the third generation leaf, the second generation
leaf?
I'd what are there three leaves?
Oh, maybe.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know if that counts as it might have just been a facelift.
Why you ask me questions that I have notes written down for.
I'm we I'm it is Pride Week in Seattle.
I have so much shit to do.
It is terrifying.
I don't know anything right now.
And listeners, this is how much we love you because I was up until three a of last night
and I drove back from Chicago and I am in a awful mood post not being at my day job
anymore.
I had nightmares about it all last night.
But I we're still pushing through doing this because we love you.
God damn it.
A happy pride.
I it's like the the Hyundai's and Kia's will disguise the high the skateboard floor.
The Porsche Taycan is a great disguise of it.
Yeah.
And then like the the McCann EV is not not.
It's like it's so interesting to me seeing what automakers are good at hiding it.
And like when even ones that are good at hiding it don't care to hide it.
Like right.
Like the fact that the the the Taycan I'm going to pronounce it differently every single
time.
The fact that the Taycan and the McCann are like the same company are is like really
odd to me because it's like oh but you made it look normal there.
Yeah.
Because I looked at the McCann EV and I'm like oh no I have to see these.
They're so tall.
They're they're they're like a little bit taller than the others.
And it's like why yeah.
Can you not do it anymore.
The Mustang Mach-E doesn't look like a 40.
No I think the big thing is just like if you're trying to make a vehicle cheap as possible
and you're going to throw the cheapest possible batteries in it you're gonna have a lot of
volume for it and you're going to try to package it in a way where it's very easily modular
and so it kind of makes sense.
Again maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe maybe they put fake out camo on the bed so that I would think this and that I
couldn't be shocked when it comes out and it looks fine.
But I think the thing that's most frustrating about this specifically is that like I reviewed
a Maverick when it was new.
And I drove the XL which at the time of my writing my review was $21,490.
And I tested it in Nashville and I got like 44 miles per gallon.
And I was like this is a paradigm shift.
This is insane.
This is just like I don't even like pickup trucks.
I have no need for a pickup truck but this just makes sense as a daily driver because
it is so ruthlessly cheap.
And like yeah you had to get like it didn't have cruise control in it which was like okay
you spent $150 and you flash it.
Get a different steering wheel.
Boom.
You have cruise control again.
You can put it back in.
They just cut it because they were being spiteful and trying to just sell those to fleets but
like it was so cheap.
I was like this is insane because it was it was under 20 before delivery fees.
And that lasted for about 10 minutes and now I looked it up because Ford is currently running
an employee pricing for all deal.
Ford is currently $28,616 for a Maverick XL.
No I am not.
For the car that they...
They've added cruise control back in.
Now they're charging almost $30,000 for it.
That's $9,000.
What the fuck are you talking about Ford?
I think that if like I will say this employee pricing for all thing is really weird because
they describe it as American value for American values.
The Ford website is very deeply not okay right now.
Just continuing with this theme.
The Broncos headline image is rubbed some dirt on it.
Which is just like...
Wow.
Yeah it's...
There's some...
I don't think they're doing okay.
The Mustang just says suck it up faggot.
That's interesting.
Weird.
I don't know if that's what they're doing.
It is Pride by the way.
Happy Pride for me or friend.
Ford Mustang trapped at your local mall.
Faggot to be let free.
I do think it's also interesting because this obviously was a huge difference in the Maverick
specifically but I was looking at their website and the Broncos starts at over $40,000 now.
The sport or...
For a two door?
Or the Bronco Bronco.
No, the Bronco Bronco.
I mean that's bad.
But it was not...
It wasn't that expensive.
It was like...
I think it was just over 30 a few years ago.
Like barely.
It was not that expensive.
None of us...
I've been saying this over and over again and I'm going to keep saying it because I think
it's just the only way to actually explain how nutty prices have gotten.
Which is like I bet if you do...
We did just live through one of the greatest periods of inflation in American history.
Which is now accelerating again thanks to President Deals.
I have to assume that this is just stick or shock and it's like it's functionally the
same money just doesn't...
Money has become uncoupled from how we think about what things should cost.
Yes.
To a certain extent and also...
Ford has had some specific headwinds with the aluminum plant that burned down and chips
became unavailable and they've had...
The COVID was a big supply shock and now nobody is ever going to be able to buy a computer
again.
There are six people who are soaking up the resources of the world on pet projects and
that simply means that there are fewer resources to spend on other things and we are all poor
as a result because of these six people basically.
But it is just kind of weird that...
I did double check and Bronco started as per Car and Driver in 2021 at under $30,000.
It was $29,995 and it is now on sale for over $38,000 which is...
Or $40,000 which is insane.
I was talking a little bit on Blue Sky with Daniel Goulson from Chalopnik.
That's where he's currently at, right?
I believe so.
Notorious bends free.
Notorious bends free.
Brackets positive.
We love that game.
We love Daniel here.
We love that game, boy.
But my God.
We make bad cars sometimes.
We can be honest about it, Daniel.
I was talking with them about the leaped rumored slate price and I went, okay, but what else
could you buy for that number in America?
Which is here in the notes.
I didn't realize how grim the list of...
I think even the cars...
Oh yeah, I got this.
We are getting grim.
It is.
Can I get into that?
Would you like me to get into that?
Please, please, start me with numbers.
What's under...
So, shout out to Jeff Perez from Motor1 because he made a list for this which I've written
a bunch of articles like this and I know they suck to write.
So thank you, Jeff.
This was still entertaining and I appreciate it.
We love Jeff here.
Every car in America you can still buy for under $25,000.
That $22,150 and this is with destinations.
We're not counting like the fake price.
We're talking about actual dollars that you could exchange to get a car.
The Hyundai Venue is the cheapest at $22,150 that is followed by the Chevrolet Trax, the
Kia K4, the Nissan Sentra, the Hyundai Elantra, the Nissan Kicks and the Toyota Corolla and
we are done.
That is the whole list.
That is all that you can buy new for under $25,000 in America.
You might notice, but Vicki, what about the Civic?
What about the Mazda 3?
What about the Jetta?
What about the Impreza?
What about like 10 other cars that should cost under $25,000?
No, fuck you.
Those are all over $25,000 now.
The Impreza doesn't feel that crazy.
The fact that the Mazda 3 is the one that hurts.
Yeah, I mean the fact that a Crosstrek is more than $25,000 to me suggests that we have
lost all sanity.
Yeah.
Those are not 30 grand cars.
I don't...
Oh my god.
Do you know about this?
I think they're fine.
My ex had one.
I am a Subaru hater here.
Really?
And the minute that they dropped the...
Yeah.
How is this not known?
I feel like I talk about how much I dislike Subarus all the time.
I just...
It's just so...
I mean, I don't like love them.
I don't...
I might buy a BRZ over a GR86, but that just depends on what color...
That's just a Toyota.
Yeah, it just depends on colors.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
That's not a blood...
That's just a Toyota.
And it took them a generation to figure out all the problems with the boxer engine.
That was the only part that Subaru contributed.
That's right.
You know, I'm...
Yeah, no, I don't like Subarus really much at all.
The Mazda 3 not starting under $20,000.
Even if it was $24,995.
Like...
A Mazda 3 should be...
I mean, Mazda's...
Mazdas are really nice.
That's the other thing.
Where Mazda...
Right.
Mazdas chased being nice for money in such a way that I think now that components have
gotten more expensive has come back to fight them because then they've had to raise prices.
And that means that they're like...
The Mazda quirky chief but shockingly nice advantage is starting to...
Disappear.
Yeah.
Well, I mean...
I don't know.
I...
It's all hypothetical anyway because I don't know.
I don't see myself with $25,000 to blow on a new car but it does feel like we've just
kind of unmoored from reality entirely.
The fact that I can't...
But that could just be me.
I think that I can't picture what the Hyundai Venue looks like when I have been in one of
their dealerships within the last 30 days is crazy.
It's a box.
Is it just a box?
It's not like...
It's...
It's the high undefined soul basically.
Oh, it's that thing.
That thing's hateful.
Yeah.
It isn't the best...
I will say the Kia K4, the Elantra...
Those are...
And I guess maybe the Corolla.
Those are nice cars.
I mean, the Venue I've actually heard pretty nice things about.
But yeah, the K4 and the Elantra I would actually be like, oh, if I got this like a rental car,
I'd be like, this is pretty nice actually.
They seem nice.
But yeah, if you held a gun to my head and said buy a Chevrolet Trax, I would be like,
no, she'd be...
Pull it till it clicks.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I...
I'm fine-readed, missed.
So I...
The K4 is...
That's the sedan, right?
That's like a shockingly well-styled vehicle for less than...
I thought that was maybe 30 grand.
They're good for Kia.
I mean, nothing Kia makes probably should be like more than 30 grand.
But like that's...
We...
This is $20 no longer feels like $20 and that's why the economy is fucked.
It's like...
30 grand should be...
30 grand should be a base three series.
Like and we're not anywhere close to that anymore.
I don't think.
No.
No.
Oh my God, are you kidding me?
What is the base three series cost?
I think it's like 40 grand at least.
Everything costs too much.
I don't know.
This is the same, you know, again, this is the same plot for all the rest of our episodes.
What is it?
This is a Google overview, but they're taking these figures.
No, don't use that.
Okay, here's the part of driver figures.
Oh my God.
That's...
What?
Well?
It starts at $47.5.
A three series.
A car for real estate agents.
A car for not good real estate agents.
Like a fresh like...
Don't you an improv comedian and you need to get a real job?
I thought...
$47,000 for a 3.3 i.
That's dark.
What a...
What is it?
I got a migrant.
I didn't let...
I thought the E-92 M3 started at $47,000.
I know that was 20 years ago now, but I just like...
What do we...
What do we do?
I know components got so expensive.
I know luxury features, costume money.
I just...
A face 3 series should be nice, but like not crazy, right?
Like $47,000.
Jordan, you're editing this one, right?
I read out a list of actionable threats about what we could do to bring down prices.
I don't think it would work.
No, I think...
Well, that's the thing.
It would be a really long bleep.
Yeah, I...
I...
There's...
It's not a one person list, unfortunately.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
Yeah, for the 2026 model years, the starting MSRP is $500 more expensive at $48,000.
That's your 500 just feels like a kick in the teeth at this point, right?
It was an M3 cost.
Oh my God.
This is why I couldn't be an automotive reviewer is because I'd get the sheet with all the
price again, but I'd be like, they want you to pay how much for this?
I was talking with the friend of the show about how like, would we theoretically have
enough of an audience that have reached out where press cars are like...
They give out, they...
Yeah, I've been told this too.
We have cars that outlets way smaller than ours, which is crazy.
And like...
Yeah.
But it's just like, I don't know how to read the fact that like, okay, all right.
Nope, I don't want the history of M. I want to explore models.
Oh my fucking God.
The base M3 sedan starts at $79,000.
For, again, what is starts as a BMW 3 series.
I don't know, when did that happen?
I feel like I went to the beach that made you old, except it just made all my fucking
house expensive.
And like, what do you mean a jet is more than $25,000?
A jet of fucking blows.
A jet, the most I can jet is another...
It's either this or suicide car.
And the thing is, is like, I drove a Jetta as one of the last press cars I had at motor
one and I liked it because it wasn't a crossover.
And I was like, you know, for a cheap car, this is whatever.
You know, it's not great, but like, I would rather have a Civic, but like a Jetta is fine.
I would take this if it landed, you know, in my lap and I had like a good, you know,
lease deal or like a good interest rate, whatever.
And yeah, now that's over $25,000.
The idea of paying over $25,000 is like repulsive to me.
This is like, all of this segment of the show is basically a long-term nuclear waste storage
warning about what cars should cost.
We find these things to be repulsive.
We hid them away because it was embarrassing and humiliating for us.
There is nothing a hear of honor.
No deed is esteemed.
You know, I just, and now I worry about like used cars just like nothing made like everything
made after like, oh, it's over.
It's over.
Going to be like people are only dumping.
I know it's over.
It's over.
It's over.
It's, yeah, I'm so glad that you're, I'm so, I was going to say I'm so glad that you're
depressed, but that sounded mean.
I'm so glad I've won you over to my side.
No, I just, and that you are depressed.
but I just see like, I think there's so many ways back and all of that, like, I will prices
ever go down again.
No, but like weight wages can go up and things can go like, I don't think getting rid of safety
features in cars but save that much money which safety features, I think is the thing
that usually gets the blame by automakers for why things got so much-
No, do you know what-
Do you know what should take the blame for it is the legalization of stock buybacks?
Oh yeah, absolutely. It's that...
The profit motive! It isn't because they had to put a crumple zone in the Honda Civic that it's $26,000.
I think cars can go back to being... Everything is computer, and that's bad.
But also I like my car that is very... Everything is computer.
And I like my car that is everything is computer also is the other thing, but like...
Oh, Hachimachi Victoria, I...
This is like when I was just like, well you can get a base that will run for less than $100,000, right?
And I just... No, fuck you, kill yourself. What are you talking about? It's 2026, wake up.
I'm gonna call... When I titled this episode, I'm gonna call it a victory for team. It's so over.
I don't wanna feel this way. Like, in so many ways...
I don't even! Do you think I want to feel like this? Do you think this is a decision I made?
I like woke up and I was like, damn, you know what? I think I'm gonna be a complete fucking miserable piece of shit.
Because I've looked at the material circumstances surrounding me and realized that it is indeed so over.
No, I did this begrudgingly.
It is a testament to my wonder at the world and my love for my friends and my joy at the inherent beauty of it all that I continue to fucking get out of bed.
Despite the fact that everything sucks.
I remember tariffs on cars from Europe.
Oh yeah, that's what it is. Who knows?
It looks like these numbers jumped up a lot recently and I was just like, what happened in the last two years?
Oh, president deals. And again, it's not all his fault.
But it's not his fault.
And like, where's the 320i? Where's the stripper one that they sell to taxi drivers in Europe? I want that.
They sell them to taxi drivers in Europe. They don't sell them to us because we're not allowed to have good things, remember?
That was the start of the episode when I thought that Porsche was screwing over the whole world and instead they're just fucking us over.
I can't even see good cars anymore. That's how bad it is.
They won't even let me see the weird street parked Porsche Cross Turismo or whatever that some granola dentist bought in the rich neighborhood down the hill.
Anyway, that's the episode.
Yeah, I saw it.
Fuck it. Bad vibes only.
Yeah, it's the fucking nine inch nails of car podcast.
We're having a bad time.
Victoria, do you want to read what is going to be so many fucking names?
Yes, yes, we do appreciate all of you.
And I will read out the names of our call out tier.
The 15th one that call out the shout out to call out to use a different thing.
For 10 extra dollars, I will say fuck you specifically before your name for the call out.
Oh my god, this is the most podcast.
I will air any dirty laundry for anyone you want to bury. It's totally fine. I'll do it whenever we can be the dancing busies. It'll go great.
This is the most podcast madness I've had in ages.
Yeah, it's good.
I feel like the podcast madness comes from flu game like potential.
No. Anyway, thank you to all of our $15 subscribers. We really appreciate you and obviously we are both, you know, I'm trying to get a job again.
I'm making a renewed pitch now the book is slowing down and we'll see how that goes and we appreciate the support.
So thank you to professional Stalantis hater. Don't come for my job. That's all they let me do it.
Thank you to Hazelbutt blue screwy spider noir is gender. The gender is spider.
Rocket wombs riding motorcycles time for Amiata.
I think you need to throw some caps in there. It's a little hard to read this into like the camel case.
But I think I got it right. Ronan C. Ty Papa shitty cams QQ bears hijacker.
I'm going to let you just stew in it.
Pittsburgh T girl baseball June 20th, 4pm. Bloomfield Park. You got to update that so we can get the next game on here.
Ashlyn Adam Mancuso. Remember to always tip your bloop black. Studio Nixie trans fetish photographer for hire. Put your city in there.
We should just do the classifieds this week. Totally not.
Thank you to totally not Saudi oil bribe money. Alex K. Amiga 15 JD Santos Jeremy Tanner dog bed the bed that eats kibble deluxe
Catrania sloppy head enjoyer Ember crucibles champion the people's pillow princess Mimi bean free Henry stable James Gilbreth Charlie Stangle.
Where are you? Mary of era? I just want to talk about your decision to work with Lockheed Martin. That's right. Yeah, that's next week. That's next week.
I was like, should I throw this in? I was like, no, next week. Theodore Constantine John V Buick Adam Shepard Stephen Duckworth Phalen mildly perturbed Hannah W.
Ashlyn Chris Heppner Jerry at homelgameragenda.com has a 2023 Subaru Outback for sale will deliver.
Like like that sounds like a good offer. You wear cuz that's buddy. Have you seen what gas prices are like right now?
Dexas Tara Hailstorm will. Hey, maybe we should stop treating helicopters like a leisurely form of transportation. You cannot pay either of us money to get out of
Helicopters anything that still kills rich people. I will not get on Cessna's helicopters.
Again and again, a concept applies. I will get in a helicopter. What's wrong with you? Not like to go somewhere. I just think they're cool.
Okay, I want to be in. I would absolutely if somebody was like, Hey, you want to go along with like do a story about like life flight or like firefighting helicopters or was like there's a
Slightly useful purpose for it. I would be like hell. Yeah. Sure. I recognize I would do that. I would not take Uber black with a helicopter that is truly reprehensible.
That's I can't get behind it for the privilege died helicopter.
Thank you to Steph Schrader, Princess Reese, if kidnapped, please record. We will never stop recording. Thank you to 1337 world girls. I could just say elite. I am of the age that I know what that is.
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Penile sparing vagina plastic available now. Nick legalize Keltrop's bomb, Bowsky. I don't think they're illegal. Like I think you could just buy that. I think they might be illegal to use them.
DJ. Thank you to DJM. A classified ad for an unknowable feeling.
I'm currently writing the last gen one leaf on an arm.
John Russell, Justin Ryan, Josh J and Selectric. Thank you all so much. We will have a bonus episode. It is still June when we are recording this, but I think the way that the timing of the episode releases come out, the June bonus episode might drop in July, because we're both bad at calendars.
I'm going to post a poll about it. You can choose the movie we watch. We'll probably do two in July at this rate. We might actually, since we have nine jobs, we might throw in just like an episode.
I know you're busy, but I think we could get the bonus out before the 30th.
That's true. We could try. We've podcasted on a technicality. Tuesday drop. Everybody will go crazy.
And I get to break out my best Ryan Davis impression. It'll go great.
Thank you so much. We will talk to you all. I guess we'll talk at you.
I was going to say, you're welcome to talk back to us. I can't hear you. Bye.
About this episode
Episode 20 bounces between EV road-trip charging chaos and a wide-ranging rant about modern car pricing, branding, and reliability. The hosts swap stories about chargers that won’t “give you any juice,” app access problems, and a “60 miles” stretch of the Ohio Turnpike without charging. Later, they pivot to Porsche and Lucid lineup/value issues, then land on Ford’s “sinister package” Explorer ST, plus Ford’s teaser for a $30,000 electric pickup and the EV packaging tradeoffs behind it.
Hello! In this somehow-we've-recorded-20-episodes twentieth episode, the girls discuss Jordan's immediate EV Struggles on her first road trip in her new-to-her Hyundai Ioniq 5 EV and we immediately digress into the economy of Sandusky, Ohio. First off, Porsche isn't selling us their prettiest car anymore. Then, Lucid loses thousands more workers after losing a billion dollars. Seems bad! Then Ford introduces their new ST Sinister package (bad. very bad) and shows off their new EV truck (good?) and the girls continue to digress. Very digression-heavy episode.
Vicki admits she doesn't like Subarus, also, so she is prepared for her lesbian audience to throw stale vegetables at her. [I JUST DON'T LIKE BOXER ENGINES OKAY]
