Episode 229: James Allen: President, Autosport Business & F1 at Motorsport Network

The automobile is one of the most important inventions that revolutionize the modern world.

In America, the rich history of car culture runs deep.

Technology continues to shape the future of the industry.

Jason Stein is here to share the stories of people passionate about cars,

from industry leaders and innovators to car-obsessed celebrities.

Buckle up as Jason takes you inside the boardroom, onto the track,

and around the bend on Cars and Culture on SiriusXM Business Radio.

Welcome into episode 229 of Cars and Culture with Jason Stein on SiriusXM Business Channel 132.

Great to have you along for the riot again this week.

And what a riot it will be this weekend.

All eyes in the motorsport world turn to Abu Dhabi,

to the lights that glamor the pressure and the circuit.

It's not just the end of another season.

It's a cliffhanger, a three-way showdown, a finale that promises fireworks.

The McLaren F1 team, Red Bull Racing, and individual destinies collide.

Heading into the final round, Lando Norris leads the pack with 408 points.

Max Verstappen sits 12 points behind at 396, riding momentum after a crucial

Qatar Grand Prix win that shook up the standings.

And Oscar Piestri remains very much in the hunt at 392 points,

a mathematical long shot but still part of this three-way finale.

This is the first time since 2010 that more than two drivers go into the last race

with title hopes.

It's a reminder that in F1 nothing is decided until the checkered flag falls.

To help unpack what could be one of the most dramatic season finales in recent memory,

the stakes, the drivers, the strategies, I'm joined by someone whose voices echoed through

decades of Formula One history, James Allen.

James isn't just an observer.

He's a former lead TV commentator for ITV Sports, a longtime BBC correspondent,

and today President, Autosport Business, and F1 at Motorsport Network.

He's also on the scene this weekend there.

And he has seen F1 through eras of change, from old school mechanics to modern hybrid

turbo engines, from two driver title fights to what could now be a rare three-way decider.

He understands the politics, the pressure, the people.

He's lived every twist and every last lap drama, and now he's here to help us

read the tea leaves before the finale.

Today we talk about a few things.

The permutations, what each of the three contenders needs to do, including finishing

points, potential pitfalls, and where strategy might decide the championship.

We'll talk momentum versus consistency, why a season-spanning effort might come down to one

weekend, and how pressure, history, and split-second decisions will matter.

We'll talk the history and the precedent, rare three-way finishes,

past Abu Dhabi showdowns, and what makes this circuit uniquely dramatic.

And finally, what's next for F1?

Beyond the driver's title, what this finale means for teams?

For power unit rules, and for the future direction of the sport heading into 2026.

So buckle up, because this weekend, the final lap might not just decide a champion,

it might define a generation.

It's James Allen, coming up from Abu Dhabi, on Cars and Culture.

Hi, I'm James Allen, and this is Cars and Culture with Jason Stein.

Direct from Abu Dhabi as it approaches nightfall, and the eve of a very exciting

time in the Formula One season, the final race of the season.

And I think it's safe to say that as the sun sets on another Formula One season,

in the modern era, James, it's rare for the title to come down to the final race,

and even more unusual for it to be a three-way title fight in the final race.

It's an honor to have you on the program.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you, the honor is mine, I can tell you.

Yeah, what a rare thing indeed, right?

Lando Norris, Oscar Piastri, Max Verstappen, all vying for a title at the same time.

And who could have known?

We have a lot of subjects to get to, but when you look at this Abu Dhabi weekend,

what's the deeper significance beyond just a little decider under the lights?

Oh, wow, that's a great opening question, Jason.

But there's so many different layers to it.

I mean, there already is in Formula One, you know, so many different aspects to it.

I would say one thing, for example, it's the last

theories, it's the last race in this set of rules that's been,

we've had in Formula One now since 2022.

They sort of, what's so-called ground effect cars, you know,

the very sort of high downforce, very wide cars.

Not been to everyone's taste, it's been a struggle for Lewis Hamilton,

for example, to master these cars.

But it's been a time that's been dominated by Max Verstappen and Red Bull,

and then more recently by McLaren.

So that's one significance.

I think it's obviously potentially significant that having dominated

four years in a row, Max Verstappen relinquishes crown to a new world champion.

It's always good to have a new name on the world champion's trophy,

either Lando Norris, or less probable, Oscar Piastri, who would need quite a few

things to go his way and to go very wrong for his rivals in order to swing his way.

But yeah, I think this just, you know, Formula One itself is just going through a period

of phenomenal growth.

I mean, since the pandemic, since Drive to Survive, you know, a sort of a perfect storm,

really, of factors that have come across to make this sport grow exponentially amongst

younger audiences, more female audiences, and US audiences particularly.

It's great.

It's wonderful.

It's probably, I've been in this sport for 36 years, and it's as exciting as it's ever been.

I was very fortunate to come in in 1990 with Santa, Prost, Mansel, these big beasts,

you know, this amazing rivalry between them, and that was, you know, mind-blowingly exciting.

Of course, I was 23 at the time, so it was also doubly exciting because it was so new to me.

But I think, you know, I feel equally excited now about this three-way battle for the title.

It's funny, you've mentioned it earlier.

What's at stake might be the era itself, the Verstappen dynasty versus generational handover,

F1 as global entertainment.

You've called and covered so many finales.

Emotionally, does this feel more like a coronation, a potential coup, or something in between?

Again, another fantastic question.

You know what?

It feels slightly odd, if I'm honest.

I mean, on the face of it, the three-way title fight doesn't happen every day.

So what does it remind me of?

The most it reminds me of 2007, when you had Hamilton and Alonso driving the McLarens,

and then you had Kimi Raikkonen in the Ferrari, who was the outsider going into the final day,

and there was such an internecine battle going on within McLaren.

It was bitter, not necessarily between Hamilton and Alonso as personalities,

but there'd been huge fallout that year between Alonso and the team management.

Such that the teams on the other side of the garage almost felt that they were battling each

other, and they took their eye off the ball and forgot about Raikkonen, who actually steamed

through and won the World Championship for Ferrari at the final round.

A big misstep from McLaren, and they're being haunted by it a little bit now,

they really desperately don't want history to repeat itself in 2025, because they have had

plenty of opportunities to close this out, but they got disqualified in Las Vegas, which was

really an unforced area on the technical team that they just didn't prepare the cars correctly

and got caught out. And then in Qatar last week, Norris made a mistake in qualifying,

which put him on the back foot. And then in the race, they just made a really bad strategic

mistake and meant that they couldn't close the championship out there or indeed here this weekend.

So I think there's a lot of layers to it. I don't think it's got the resonance of 2021,

which is one of the great showdowns here in Abu Dhabi for the ages between Max Verstappen

and Lewis Hamilton. Again, a situation where a young champion, a young champion, Alec,

is taking on the GOAT basically and beating him in extremely controversial circumstances,

or 2008, for example, where Lewis Hamilton won his first title with an incredibly sort of

harem scare and race in Brazil. He literally won it on the last corner of the last lap of the

world championship. And I was calling that race for television, and I needed to lie down in

an art room after that one. There have been many. Formula One does serve up a lot of drama and a

lot of natural drama. The only thing I would say about this one, Jason, is it's just a bit of a

shame. I think McLaren have had this kind of code of conduct within the team that they call the

papaya rules, which is basically to try and maintain fairness between the two cars. But it

feels like they've put too much of a safety blanket around the thing. So I think for fans,

it's just not, it's not like, it's not Ali Frazier, you know, it's not, it's not the Stappan

Hamilton sort of level of rivalry. It's like, it's being sort of curated and managed by McLaren.

And I think there's a risk that they come unstuck on Sunday, everything all the time,

least of all with a championship at stake. Yeah, I want to get to some of the rules and team orders

and what could happen on that. Just before that, since you're in Abu Dhabi, what's the emotional

temperature of the paddock in a week like this? Is there tension, anticipation, guarded language?

Do you get the sense teams are already thinking about what this weekend will look like in the

history books? Yeah, well, you've got two teams basically who are still fighting for a world

championship, which is Red Bull Racing with the Stappan and then McLaren with its two drivers,

Piastri and Norris. You've got some other teams in the grid who stopped developing their cars

some time ago because they're putting all the effort onto next year's cars with all this brand

new technology, which is a common sense decision to make. But they're still fighting for a few of

the positions a bit further down the championship rankings, which are worth several millions of

dollars between fourth and fifth and fifth and sixth, those kind of fight sixth and seventh.

There's millions of dollars on the table there. So you don't take it lightly. So everybody's a

little bit tense, who's got something to fight for. But obviously, the temperature at McLaren is

insane. So it was tense in Qatar after the mistake they made in Vegas, but after another mistake in

Qatar, they really can't afford to do anything wrong. And you're always nervous that the mechanics

are just not going to quite tighten the bolt up correctly, or there's just everybody's a little

bit on edge and checking each other's work and that sort of thing. And that's exactly what happened

2007. And it's easy to get caught up in that and to lose sight of what you're actually trying to do.

It's relatively straightforward. Norris, if Norris can keep his head, qualify well and finish on

the podium. He's the world champion. Yeah, let's go driver by driver for a minute. And we'll start

with Lando, still relatively young, carrying the weight of McLaren's history, as you just said,

bidding to become Britain's next world champion. What kind of evolution have you seen from him

this year, not just as a driver, but as a protagonist in the sport? Yeah, no, I think

that's a really good choice of words. And as a protagonist, I mean, first of all, you know, we

do every three years, we do a global F1 fan surveys, the largest survey of its kind in any sport,

let alone in motorsport. And Lando comes right at the top of the most popular driving, you know,

particularly amongst female audiences, but he's right. Gen Z love Lando and Norris. Max, this

happened has a huge following as well, a slightly more millennial audience, if you like, even though

he's only a year or two older than Lando. But I think Lando made quite a few mistakes early on

in the season, his teammate, Oscar Piastri, got the start to the season that Lando should have had,

but didn't. And it took Lando a little while to get kind of get his act together. And I think

what's really interesting, Jason, I think I do think that during the summer, Lando went away

and did a lot of work with a psychologist to work on focus and work on taking out all the mental

distractions and those type of things, just really raising his psychological game, bringing his A

game to the table, which you've seen in races like Mexico and Brazil, for example, he completely

dominated the whole weekend. And it slipped a little bit in Qatar, which was a bit disappointing,

because it was he seemed to have really gone on top of things. And of course, that's what we'll

all be looking for on Saturday, particularly in qualifying. And on Sunday, he just needs to

clean run, he needs to clean run in qualifying, and he needs to clean run into term one at the

start of the race. And I think that I think that he's always trying to downplay talk of him as a

protagonist, you know, he is a protagonist, he's at the front, he's fighting through a world championship,

but he kind of tries to talk as if it's not the most important thing in his world. It's not always

always convincing when he does so. But as you can imagine, but yeah, that's, I don't I think I

don't think you see himself as a protagonist in that sense. What does the weekend mean for the

Norris McLaren story, if he converts the title? Yeah, good question. I mean, Norris McLaren story

is a long one. I mean, he was mentored by Zach Brown from quite a young age. And Zach always

believed that he was going to be his guy. Quite a few of these kind of iconic figures in the sport,

Toto Wolf, Jean Todd at Ferrari before that, you know, they've, they've had drivers that they brought

through from their youth. And Flavio Priatori did it many times. Alonso is a good example of that.

And you could argue Schumacher as well. But, you know, these are people that they've played

a part in shaping these guys and bringing them through. And so I think for Zach, you know,

he has to be careful because on the one hand, he's had, he's been heavily invested in Lando for a

long time. But he's also got another competitive driver in the other car who doesn't want any kind

of suggestion of favoritism. And I think some of the fans have picked up on the sense that

they believe that maybe McLaren does prefer, would prefer Norris to win the World Championship

rather than Piastri. I personally don't think that. I personally don't even think that Zach

necessarily thinks that, even though he did nurture Lando. But it's definitely a perception

that's out there amongst fans on social media. Speaking of Oscar, he's the sort of the subtle

piece of this puzzle, a title long shot, but a potential kingmaker. And what happened?

Very much so. Right. What have you learned about his temperament this year, especially

sharing a garage with a title leader? Yeah, I mean, he's been the title leader for a lot of the

season. You know, he got the better start and he just kind of kept his nose in front. And at one

point when Norris's engine failed in Zambord in Holland, Lando got over, sorry, Piastri had over

30 points advantage over him. And you were wondering whether McLaren might sort of start

invoking team orders the other way around. Right. So he's displayed a real coolness,

a song for under pressure throughout most of the year. But something happened, I think,

during the Italian Grand Prix weekend, where Norris had a slow pit stop and the team, it was

the team's mistake, the team's fault. But they asked as a consequence of which Piastri got ahead

of him. And they asked Pistri to give him the place back because and Piastri was like, well,

why should I and then it's like, well, because we made a mistake. And he said, well, that's not

really something we've talked about before. That's not something that falls under the category of

actions, you know, necessarily that I should be responding to. And he did it and he lost three

points as a consequence of it. But it sat badly with him, you could tell that and you could tell

that at the next race. And he's not really been quite himself since then, until Qatar, which is

a track that he was very, very strong on last year. And he was incredibly strong and dominant this

year until obviously, McLaren made that strategic stake that I referred to earlier, which cost him

a certain race win. So I think his his sort of psychological condition has been has been sort

of very much a season of two halves pre Monza in September, it was going swimmingly post Monza,

he's been a bit out of sorts. And and as a result of which, you know, he's not really he needs

things to go his way on Sunday, it's not it's it's it's out of his hands. And you could tell by

body language after the race in Qatar that that again, that's that really poorly with him.

Then there's Max Verstappen. There's the known quantity, multiple titles accustomed to winning

early. How different is Max in a season where he's chasing rather than dominating and

I mean, he he's exhibited all the attributes of a champion, which is to come back.

Listen, Jason, if he wins the World Championship on Sunday, this is probably

I'm trying to think of a comparison that's probably the greatest comeback in the history of our

sport. I mean, he was over 100 points behind. I mean, that is a huge, huge margin against

against, you know, the best car in the field as it was then. I think they've really worked hard

to make the Red Bull a better car to give Max a shot. And the thing about Max is he doesn't

overthink anything. He's he's really very clear sighted, he's experienced, he's done that he's

been there and done that. He knows exactly what it takes and he knows exactly what he's capable

of, which is a lot. And then he will drive to the to the limit of the car every single time,

and he will deliver the maximum that our car is capable of. And he leaves nothing on the table.

And he part of the reason he does that is by not overthinking it. So that's where the contrast

lies between him and Norris, I think. And so as you say, he's the known quantity, I would be,

I wouldn't be at all shocked if he wins the Grand Prix on Sunday. You know, I wouldn't be at all

shocked if he doesn't just dominate the race. And the question then is, does Norris try and beat

him if they're kind of at the front together? Or does Norris just sort of focus on finishing

either second or third, which is all he needs to do to win the world championship? And there's a

certain degree to which things are a little bit out of Max's hands from that point of view,

because he's got a 12 point deficit. It also interestingly means for the first time,

that if they were in a side by side going into turn one, for once, the staffer actually has

more to lose than Norris does from contact, because he can't make up 12 points if he goes

flying off the racetrack. Of course, if he takes Norris out and they both go out of the first

corner, then that opens the door for Piastri to become the world champion. So, you know,

all of these things are possible. But I think the psychological picture is slightly different

to this race as a result. But you know, Max will have the right mindset for the task in hands.

And he'll be, he'll deliver his A game on Sunday because he always does.

James, let's talk about team orders. There's already been a lot of noise about team orders.

Who should help whom, whether it's the right way to win a title. George Russell has said that he

wouldn't want to win a championship because his teammate pulled over for him. If we get into a

situation specifically with McLaren, two drivers in contention, constructors title already secured,

enormous goodwill around the team's story. How do you think they'll be able to handle a situation

where one driver can help the other? And is this the sort of weekend that can define

internal relationships for years? Absolutely, definitely to the second party of question,

and it could lead to the breakup of the team. I think they'll stay together for next year,

but I can see one of them leaving at the end of 2026, for sure. So, only one driver can help the

other. There's nothing Norris can do in front of his teammate because he's in front on points.

So, only Piastri can help Norris. And there's two intriguing scenarios that I'll paint for you,

Jason. The first one is just the fairly obvious one. The Stappen's leading the race. George Russell

is second for Mercedes. Piastri is third for McLaren, and Norris is fourth for McLaren,

which would give the Stappen the world championship. But it's in Piastri's gift to move out of the way

and let Norris get the third place that he needs to become the world champion. The only shot that

McLaren has of becoming world champion this year. McLaren would ask the question, and I don't think

there's any doubt that Piastri would do that. But how about this scenario, Jason? How about if the

Stappen is leading the race? How about if Piastri is second, Russell is third, and Norris is fourth?

So, then you've got a car between Piastri and Russell. So, what you're asking Piastri to do is

not just give up podium, third place. You're asking him to give up second place and drop back to fourth

so that Russell goes up to second and Norris goes up to third. Again, that would be a more

contentious conversation. It would also be a more contentious way for Norris to win the world

championship. But I do think that Piastri probably would do that because he's thinking of his own

future and he doesn't want to be the guy who cost a team a world championship just because of his

own stubbornness. Because if he's thinking about moving to Ferrari or Red Bull or wherever he may

go in the future Mercedes, who knows? That will log away in their head as like this is the guy who's

who's more out for himself than he is for the team. So, and Piastri is way too smart, I think,

to make that mistake. But these are the kind of psychological pressures that come in and these

are the kind of scenarios that actually happen in Formula One. Truth is often stranger than

fiction and Formula One is way stranger than that. That's right. You've commented on some of the most

past. Is there one golden rule that you've noticed about how champions handle Sundays like this?

Yeah, again, another very good question. I think obviously staying calm is crucial and that's not

just the driver, but it's all the people around the driver and the team as well. I think what I

learned from Michael Schumacher who won seven world championships is that with him, if he could feel

that he had taken care of all of the things that were under his control and they were all the best

that he could do, if they intervened in some way, whether someone hit him or whatever a puncture or

whatever it might be, then he could live with that because he knew that there was nothing that he

could have done, which could have affected the outcome. And I think that is a classic for the

sportsman mentality and the champions mentality. And it's one of the reasons why he was so successful.

So I think that's probably the most important thing. But the thing is,

people, human beings are strange things and our emotions, we are very emotionally driven

and the emotional intent within each of us can be overwhelming at times, whether that's negative

thoughts or whether that's a surge of a rush of blood to the head and making a rash move or whatever

it is. So it's extremely hard to keep a lid on your emotions when you're in a situation like that,

whether you're a driver or you're the people around him, the mechanics, the team. And bear in mind

that Red Bull have done this now four years in a row and so for them, it's second nature to be in a

situation like this. They're like the shark that's circling in the water. It's like survived for

millions of years because its design is perfect and it's just extremely good at what it does.

And McLaren haven't been here before. Most of the people on that team have never won a world

championship before for drivers. They've won two constructors now, which is lovely,

but that's not the same as winning a driver's championship with all the emotion that comes

with that. And so I think that's the most important thing is keeping a lid on that and for

everybody in the team to think like Schumacher. Have I taken care of all the things that are

under my control to take care of? And then if fate has its way with us, it has its way with us.

After this short break, I'll continue my conversation with James Allen. To see more

Cars and Culture interviews, visit the Cars and Culture YouTube channel. Subscribe, comment and

check out hundreds of conversations with the creators, collectors and culture makers who

are driving the industry forward. The automobile is one of the most important inventions that

revolutionize the modern world. In America, the rich history of car culture runs deep as technology

continues to shape the future of the industry. Jason Stein is here to share the stories of

people passionate about cars from industry leaders and innovators to car obsessed celebrities.

Buckle up as Jason takes you inside the boardroom onto the track and around the bend on Cars and

Culture on SiriusXM Business Radio. Welcome back to Cars and Culture here on SiriusXM. I'm your

host Jason Stein. Now the continuation of my conversation with James Allen. To see more Cars

and Culture interviews, visit the Cars and Culture YouTube channel. Subscribe, comment and check out

hundreds of conversations with the creators, collectors and culture makers who are driving

the industry forward. Let's talk about the circuit as a theater. Abu Dhabi is fascinating

because it's as much stage as it is circuit. Twilight start, floodlight finish, hotel over

the track, iconic visuals. From a pure racing point of view, how do you describe the character of

the circuit, especially since the layout changed a few years ago? Yeah, and you forgot the marina.

I mean, they built a marina in there as well to have a little mini monocoque effect. It's not

like Miami's fake marina. It's a real marina with real boats in it. It just adds a little bit of

color. It makes it look kind of glamorous. But as you say, you describe it very well. I love it

because the race happens as the sun's going down. It's not just a night race like Singapore.

It's a twilight into dark race. That's very, very special. The whole atmosphere,

it's very hot in the day here and it cools down around four or five o'clock and everything just

kind of calms down. It's kind of sun down the time really. I mean, you really want to be drinking

a gin and tonic, not sort of covering a Grand Prix. But such is our lot. And it's like that.

And I think if you're here as a guest, if you're here with a team guest or a sponsor guest or

whatever, I think it's a fantastic time because you can have a gin and tonic or a glass of champagne

and you can just enjoy the color and the spectacle and the atmosphere. I think it costs best part

of a billion dollars to build as a race track in 2010 when it was open. And it was the state of

the art circuit back in those days. It's a circuit which in terms of the layout of the track has a

little bit of everything. It has some lower speed kind of second gear corners, which are

quite a common corner in Formula One. It has some faster sweeping corners, particularly at the

early part of the lap, which are very elegant and makes the cars look very fast and they swing

from side to side. The change in direction of a high-speed Formula One car is something to behold.

And then it has two straights, which encourage overtaking into tight chicanes, I should say.

And so you've got two good overtaking places here. So it's something that has a little bit of

everything. And it's a real favorite, I think, with everybody in the sport. It's a great place

to end the season. Where does the race tend to be won? Is it qualifying? Is it the start?

Is it tire management? Safety car roulette? Yeah, there's a little bit of safety car roulette

because you've got, you know, any way you've got a race track, a Formula One race track,

that has walls lining the outsides. There's always, if there's any kind of incident there,

any kind of accident, the cars have got nowhere to go. They hit a wall to come back onto the track.

There's debris. The race director has to throw a safety car, a bit like you see in NASCAR and

IndyCar. Some other tracks we go to, it's not necessarily a safety car. If the car flies off

a race track at Silverstone, it can go an awful long way before it hits any kind of place. You

know, so you don't always have the same jeopardy there. So yes, that's always something to watch

out for. I think it is a very important circuit in which to start at the front. It's hard to come

through the field. In Abu Dhabi, you can do it if you've got a very fast car. And particularly

if you had any kind of rain shower, but that's highly unlikely here.

So yes, I think qualifying in the front two rows is very, very important.

And then just a good clean race strategy. There is a little bit of jeopardy on the pit lane exit.

It's not a standard pit lane exit where it just blends back into the race track.

You go down. It's almost like you're going into an underpass, into an underground car park underneath

the target or something and into the superstore. You know, there's a chance if you're going too

fast, you actually hit the wall on the outside because you're literally going through an underground

tunnel to get back onto the race track, which is quite a novel feature. But I do think sooner

or later someone's going to crash there. We've seen finals at this circuit that were drama free

and others that I would say James that shook the sports foundations. How much scar tissue do you

think exists in the paddock from the 2021 finale? And does it affect how the teams, the FIA, race

control might approach the weekend? You don't want to have a repeat four years later of the

controversy of what occurred then, right? No, you're absolutely doomed. I mean,

the circumstances are a little bit different. That was a very, very needy championship fight

anyway between Verstappen and Hamilton who had had a very high speed accident, if you remember,

at Silverstone, which put Verstappen in hospital. You then had a collision between the pair of

them in Italy. So between the drivers, there was a lot of bitterness and intensity to the rivalry.

And of course, that spilled over between the two teams as well. They both thought that the other

was sort of cheating in some way or another. And you constantly heard that then they both thought

that the governing body, the race director of the governing body was favouring one of the other

teams. So it was like literally a case of bias here, bias there. They wouldn't hear it any different.

So all of that stuff was already going on before we even got to the final round in Abu Dhabi.

What happened that day was it was disdain on our sport. There's no question about it. It was a,

it should never have happened. The decision, the race director had had a difficult year. He'd had

some very difficult moments like in Belgium where it rained so hard, they didn't actually manage to

get the race to start properly. So they had to sort of such it a little bit behind the safety car

and declare, you know, declare things over. But so he'd had a really, really difficult year. I think

he hadn't had very good protection. And he was kind of in an exposed position and he made, he made

a, you know, a really, really bad mistake. And what he should have done was very obvious to all

of us who understand this sport. And it would have led to an extremely thrilling showdown that

would have been fair between Hamilton and Verstappen for the World Championship, instead of which

it ended up with a, you know, a complete mess that cost Hamilton the championship and won the

Stappen Championship. And it didn't need to be that way. And you're absolutely right that we

really don't want to repeat that. But it's different people now, you know, different people, different,

different management, different race director, different, there's a lot of different actors to

it and different team as well in terms of McLaren rather than Mercedes fighting against Red Bull.

Beyond all of that drama, you referenced this earlier that this is the,

this is an ascension for the sport that we've never seen before. I certainly have never seen

that. You said that you haven't either. You think about F1 in terms of fan engagement, media,

commercial value. And in your role at Motorsport Network, you see all of the data. You see the

surveys. I've talked about the survey on this program. I talked about it with Zach Brown,

the viewing habits. What does a finale like this do for that trajectory? Does it just keep climbing?

Yeah, I mean, it's absolute manner from heaven as far as Formula One are concerned. It's just

what they, what they needed. Because I think things have become a little bit formulaic, if you

like, with Stappen winning and winning quite dominantly in the few of those last four years.

And obviously the fall away from Hamilton, we didn't expect Hamilton to drop off after 2021

like he did. And obviously this year in Ferrari, it's been a, it's been a, by his own, in his own

words, it's been a nightmare for him. It's been his most uncompetitive season in Formula One,

just as he's, you know, switched to the team that he's always sort of dreamed of competing for. So,

you know, some, some things have been lost there. Some things have been lost

for the sport. But on the other hand, there's been some real gains. You know, we've got six

new rookies came in at the beginning of this season, and a few of them have really stood up.

Antonelli has been fantastic in the last few races. Bearman's been fantastic. Earlier on,

Adjar has been fantastic and has got himself a promotion up to Red Bull as Stappen's teammate

for next year. So a lot has been gained there, but you can't really beat a world championship

showdown in the final round. And if you can add three drivers into the mix rather than just two,

it's fantastic. All of which to say that there's a lot of richness there for the, for the fans and

particularly the new fans who have been discovering the sport in the last four or five years and who

follow the drivers and the personalities on social media who are interested in the relationships

between the drivers. And they've found who discovered Formula One as their sport,

particularly this huge cohort of Gen Zs and females, 42% of the F1 audience now is female.

A lot of sports would kill for a demographic like that. And I think, you know, this has just been,

it's providing a really thrilling conclusion to the championship that will, I think, wet their

appetite for more to come back for next year and in future years as well. One of the most

interesting data points Jason in that survey we did for Formula One earlier this year was over 90%

of fans, whether they were Gen Z, Gen Z female, any age group, even avid fans who've been following

the sport for over 20 years. The one thing they all had in common is that they all intend to be

following the sport five years from now. So if you're sitting in Stefano Domenicole shoes, and I

know you've, you've spoken to him yourself, you know, if you're sitting in his shoes, that that

for me was the data point that would, I think would help me sleep very, very well at night,

knowing that you're not just finding new fans, but they're, they're telling you that they're

going to be sticky and they'll still be around in five years time. God, it's an ideal ending. I mean,

it's all of the narratives on the storylines that we've talked about, this possible transition

from an old, I hate to say Max Verstappen is an old guard, but, but the established title winner

to possibly a new title winner, to possibly having McLaren back there again. And a little bit on,

on McLaren for a minute, if Lando wins the title, what does it represent for McLaren,

for British motorsport, and maybe the broader Formula One story?

I mean, obviously the British motorsport world has produced a number of great champions over

the years, whether it's Jim Clark or Lewis Hamilton or Nigel Mansel, it would be another one in,

in that tradition. And he is very much in that tradition. He came through the same

ranks, you know, started in karting and then worked his way up through the,

the single-seater categories. He was a winner of the Autosport BRDC Young Driver Award,

as was Jensen Button. So it would be, it would be Autosport is one of our big brands, as you know,

in motorsport network and 75 year old brand, it's the Bible of motorsport. And, and it would be

the second time that a young driver coming through the program had become a Formula One

world champion. So that would be fantastic too. So I think it's, it's something that a lot of

people are really excited about. But, but as I said earlier on, I do think Lando is an international

draw. I think he's not just a draw for the British. I think, you know, all our data shows that he is,

you know, right up there amongst the most popular drivers in Formula One, along with

Lewis, obviously, and Max. And, and, and he's very, very popular amongst a lot of the new fans

that have come into the sport in the US and around the world as well. When you look at the

expansion of Formula One in general and a dramatic ending to the season, new markets take notice,

you know, the Las Vegas's of the last couple of years, the Miami's of the last few years,

they can pull in all of the energy that occurs here this weekend and use it to build their own

fan base even broader and considering some new destinations that I know are on the table,

could even strengthen the reach further in new markets, correct?

Yes, absolutely. I think, you know, there's always more, more countries and cities that

want to host a race than there are available slots on the calendar. And I was talking actually

only the other week to Louise Young, who is the director of race promoters at Formula One.

She's the one who does all the relationships with promoters and works with the new countries that

want to sort of take over. She's bringing Madrid on board next year. That's going to be a new round

and after next year, Zambor in Holland will drop off, which might sound a bit odd to people listening

to this, knowing that Max Verstappen is still at top of his game, but you know, the economics of it

mean that Zambor doesn't feel it's the right thing to continue. Thailand is known to want to go on

pre and has been working quite hard, but they've had some stability issues, shall we say, with the

government there. Korea is another one that's not being talked around very much, but a huge car

culture there. Obviously, huge tech community there that would unlock a lot. As you can imagine,

if Korea got a Grand Prix, then Formula One has a long held ambition to race in Africa. It feels

it can't truly call itself a world championship. If it's not on that continent, Rwanda are keen

to have a race. There's other countries too. Obviously, finding a long term stable partner

in Africa is an ambition that Formula One definitely holds. And of course, the other

thing is such as the speed and the growth in the US that although for now Formula One is

saying that three races is enough and they need to develop other markets, there is still always

that constant pull at a fourth race. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that your

seaboard, the West Coast and the East Coast are better than anybody, Jason, right? I mean,

they are the capitals of car culture in different ways. Upstate New York and the East Coast and

California, Riverside and all the amazing culture that there is around cars there. So to have a

Grand Prix on one of the two seaboard makes a lot of sense. Surely, at some point in the next five

to 10 years, that's got to happen. And I mean, for the Middle East and Abu Dhabi as a destination

finale, it has to fit in with Liberty's vision of Formula One as a global entertainment platform.

You're in the epicenter of an entertainment district at this point. I think we're in the epicenter

of that's right. We're in the epicenter also of a shift in global sort of geopolitics and

economics as well. The reason why there are four rounds in the Middle East in Bahrain, Abu Dhabi,

Qatar and Saudi Arabia is because this region which has been built on oil wealth in all cases

is pivoting towards diversifying its forces of revenue and tourism in all cases is a critical

part of the mix and sport and entertainment are a critical part of the mix within that wider

umbrella of diversification. So particularly that's led by Saudi Arabia. They are the most

extreme example if you like. They're investing billions and billions in growing their sports

portfolio internationally and within the country of the four nations where we race in the Middle

East. It's by far the most powerful economically strong and also most populous and there's a huge

population in Saudi Arabia and I think it's something like 60% of them are under 35. The

demographic is completely the opposite of Japan or a lot of the Western

liberal democracies. So we're in the middle of all of that. Demographics and economics drive

what happens in all sports and particularly in Formula One and that's why we have four races here.

A couple of final questions and again I appreciate you taking the time on what is

plus nine hours from me right now James. I'm not going to force you into a headline prediction

unless you want to give me one but when the lights go out in Abu Dhabi when they start racing what's

the first thing you're going to watch for? Well I'm always reluctant to give a prediction before

anybody has turned a wheel bearing in mind it's because we haven't even had a practice session

here and it's so hard to give yourself hostage to fortune but I would say that if Norris can have a

clean weekend then my prediction is that he will hold on and see it out and win the world championship

but I would say that even before the lights go out on Sunday the thing I am therefore most

watching out for is the final runs in qualifying three, the final part of qualifying on Saturday

where the Norris can keep it clean and deliver a clean lap and get himself on

ideally the front two rows of the grid and ideally the first row from his point of view ideally

the first row of the grid. Now if that's alongside Max Verstappen so be it. As I said earlier on I

don't think Verstappen for once has got more to lose than Norris does from a collision in this race

but nevertheless I think Norris would be happy to let Verstappen go and just control the race

behind him in second place ideally with his teammate in third that would be perfect for

Norris's point of view and McLaren's point of view obviously not from Piastri's point of view

because he would want to be up front but if he's running behind Verstappen then there's nothing

much he can do about it so I would say that the first thing I'm looking for this weekend

is those final runs in qualifying can Norris deliver under pressure which he didn't do in

Qatar but he did do in Brazil he did do in Mexico you know Verstappen is going to ring the neck of

the car he'll get the most out of it and deliver the best qualifying performance so that's the

first thing and then assuming that you've got Verstappen, Norris, Piastri and maybe Russell

the front four cars on the grid which is what you know it ought to be then obviously what you're

looking out looking forward when the lights go out is the getaway whoever's on the dirty side

of the track with less grip will struggle a bit more will they lose a position to someone from

the row behind and put themselves into some sort of compromising situation don't forget that here

last year Piastri got tagged at the start and fell back which meant all the pressure was on

Norris to deliver the win which gave McLaren their constructed championship he had to carry the whole

burden to the team for the rest of that race but Piastri got tagged so this is a place where you

can get tagged into that first corner and that's something that neither Verstappen nor Norris nor

Piastri is going to want to have happen to them obviously. Could be the hardest race of the year

to predict because of what's at stake and on paper is one thing James but F1 title showdowns

have a history of throwing up random chaos if you're the fan sitting down to watch this race

what's your final question what's your message to them about why they should

savor this particular Sunday? Well the first thing I would say Jason is welcome to Formula One

this is a fascinating sport it's an inclusive sport you know everybody is welcome one of the

best things about our sport in terms of the participants is it doesn't matter if you're

male or female able-bodied disabled gay straight christian muslim seat it really doesn't matter

once you put a helmet on you get inside a race car everybody looks the same and there are no rules

that mean you can't compete against each other and that's absolutely fantastic and hopefully

sooner or later we'll have a female Formula One driver coming through hopefully within the next

five to ten years so welcome to the sport it's a wonderful sport it's rich it's like an onion

you peel off one layer and there's another layer underneath whether it's business or its strategy

or its health and well-being or its finance or its you know politics or its personality or its

fashion or its entertainment or its gastronomy all of these things it's like it's this giant

onion with multiple multiple layers and I think fans coming into the sport realize that as they

begin to understand and look at the history you know the Schumacher this incredible drivers like

Ayrton Senna who was like the James Dean of Formula One back in the 1990s you know incredible

personality and very cool but tragic hero there's so much rich storytelling in this sport and you

know welcome and you're in for a great ride you know stick with us because the sport is

only going to grow from here James your context your history your eye for the big picture are

exactly what we needed heading into a finale like this enjoy the weekend when it's finished

find your way to a gin and tonic and enjoy enjoy what's been an incredible season

in in so many ways we look forward to having you on the program again maybe when the when the

calendar turns back to a North American race here you know where to find me Jason it's always a

pleasure to talk to you great thank you so much James a big thanks to my guest again James Allen

to see more cars and culture interviews visit the cars and culture youtube channel subscribe

comment and check out hundreds of conversations with the creators collectors and culture makers

who are driving the industry forward that's episode 229 I'm your host Jason Stein we'll see you down the road

Episode 229: James Allen: President, Autosport Business & F1 at Motorsport Network

About this episode

Formula 1

Mclaren F1

Red Bull Racing

Grand Prix

F1

turbo engines

three-way decider

strategy

power unit rules

Formula One

three-way title fight

Max Verstappen

ground effect cars

disqualified

qualifying

strategic mistake

championship

papaya rules

Ford Edge

chicane

tire management

safety car

Silverstone

pit lane exit

underground car park

uncompetitive season

Lando Norris

Autosport

Ayrton Senna

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