Episode 231: Best of 2025 Part 1 (Zak Brown, Chip Foose)

The automobile is one of the most important inventions that revolutionize the modern world.

In America, the rich history of car culture runs deep as technology continues to shape the future of the industry.

Jason Stein is here to share the stories of people passionate about cars, from industry leaders and innovators to car-obsessed celebrities.

Buckle up as Jason takes you inside the boardroom onto the track and around the bend on Cars and Culture on SiriusXM Business Radio.

Welcome into Cars and Culture on SiriusXM Business Channel 132. I'm Jason Stein. Thanks again for listening.

It's been an incredible 2025 on the show. We hit our 200th episode this year, edging closer to 250.

What a year, what a collection of cars and culture as we move toward our fifth year together.

If anything, our introduction to these guests, actors, CEOs, comedians, movie producers, racers has highlighted what we thought to be true.

The car world is filled with fascinating people from all walks of life. They all have one thing in common. They care about the automobile.

Throughout this journey, the stories have been rich and the personalities have been dynamic.

For the next three weeks, we'll highlight several key interviews from this past year, pulling together clips from some of the best.

And as the year winds down, this week's Best of Cars and Culture brings together two guests, who represent very different but equally powerful sides of automotive culture.

First, Zach Brown, CEO of McLaren Racing, one of the most influential figures in modern global motorsport.

From Formula One to IndyCar, Zach has helped reshape how racing teams operate as competitive, commercial, and cultural platforms, expanding the sports reach well beyond the racetrack.

Next up, Chip Fuchs, designer, builder, and one of the most recognizable figures in American car culture.

Chip's work bridges art and engineering, proving that passion, craftsmanship, and storytelling still sit at the heart of the automobile.

One guest speaks to the global business of speed, the other to the timeless joy of design and creation.

This is Cars and Culture, the best of, with Zach Brown and Chip Fuchs.

Now my conversation with Zach Brown in our New York studio.

I started out by asking Zach if there was one moment when he knew his team was succeeding.

I think Miami, Landau's first win, was a big moment.

But it even goes back before then, I would say, Austria, 2023, which was when Andrea and kind of the new Formula One team, which was primarily about 98% of the same people.

So it was new in energy. When we put those developments on Landau's car, we didn't have two sets ready, so we didn't get it ready for Austria's car until Silverstone.

But I would say that was a moment where you could tell we had our act together, but still a lot of room for improvement.

Landau, with that breakthrough moment that long-awaited win and a chaotic scene in Miami after he did that, we happen to be right in front of that celebration.

What changed in his mentality, maybe that he was no longer chasing his first, but could now pursue some other goals?

And then they know how to win, and that second win becomes easier in that third win, and so it was a huge boost for him.

He'd come close to winning. We didn't really have a car that was capable of winning, and then as soon as we were, he delivered the goods, and he's been an Oscar on fire ever since.

And Oscar often described as being ice cold. I mean, he's as smooth and cool as they come.

What kind of feedback and growth are you seeing from him, maybe even behind closed doors?

What you see is what you get with Oscar. He's very level-headed. He's very thoughtful. He's very technical.

I think he and Landau are great personality combinations. I always say you wouldn't want two Zachs or two Andreas.

Combination is what makes both of them so strong, so he's very focused. Of course, Landau, they're just two different personalities, but he hasn't really changed.

How have you changed during that time?

I don't think a lot. I still wake up every day worried about what's ahead of me, so I kind of live with a little bit of fear of failure as a motivator as opposed to the thrill of victory.

So I don't think I've changed much. I think the job gets harder every day because once you're on top, you want to stay on top.

That's kind of only one way down the mountain now. This is sport. No one wins forever, so I think it's that paranoia, if you'd like, that keeps me personally very motivated every day.

It's such a different thing, isn't it? I mean, when you're hunting continuously and then you're hunted, all of a sudden the dialogue changes, all of a sudden the pressure changes.

Maybe even the rules change. I don't know.

Yeah, what's interesting is we've got a lot of great fans out there.

We have a lot more now.

We have a lot more now. But you'd still be amazed at how many people, and that's the social media world that we live in, the commentary you get when you finish first and second, if it's not in the order that they think it should have been in.

Maybe even just recently.

Yeah, so the pressure's on, the spotlight's on us, but we just need to stay focused on ourselves.

And you call it the, I guess it's the papaya culture or the papaya ethic. There's a phrase to it.

There's kind of the papaya rules. We kind of call it the papaya era, which is, we went back to our papaya colors.

And then so papaya is just something that we kind of play off those papaya rules.

There's papaya army or fan base or papaya fans. So we're kind of all things papaya.

Did you trademark that? I mean, you should have.

I'm sure we do have, the lawyers have that covered off somewhere.

But when an incident happens, I just want to, you brought it up, so I'll just mention it.

But when an incident happens, like it did in September in Monza, and the internet goes crazy over what should have happened or what could have happened,

or maybe there's tension in the team and who's actually going to, who are they intending to have finished first?

How do you respond to those sorts of things?

You don't really, because I think, you know, sport is all about passion.

So you'll have people that, you know, you go to a baseball game, go to a football game, pick a sport,

and people are cheering and booing, and you should have done that.

And it's like having 150,000 team principals in the audience.

And, you know, we love them for it.

That's, you know, I think there's a line that shouldn't be crossed,

but you're not going to convince that very small group of individuals anything else.

So I think you just got to stay focused on what your own racing integrity is,

your own rules and recognize that people have driver favorites, team favorites, everyone has an opinion.

And, you know, most of the time when you see critical comments, people are uninformed,

but you can't sit there and explain it to them.

So I think as long as we're true to ourselves, that's all you can really do.

Sometimes even critical comments within the paddock, actually not sometimes.

Well, that's all part of the game.

So, you know, our sport is about focusing on your team,

but there is also an aspect of trying to disrupt the competition.

So, you know, we call them poison biscuits, and no one's allowed to eat the poison biscuits,

and just focus on ourselves.

I want to focus on that for a moment, just because it's been so fascinating to see the environment change

within the paddock over the last few years, since the last time we talked.

Your colleague, Total Wolf, said just recently that the sport needs villains

in order to stay compelling, that every movie needs the good, the bad, and the ugly, right?

Do you believe in that? Do you think that the sport needs that sort of thing?

I mean, you watch sports.

Yes and no, but I think, you know, sometimes the villain's the best player in the sport, right?

You know, here we are in New York.

You know, Aaron Judge is unbelievable.

I bet when Aaron Judge goes to some other parks, you know, he's the villain because he's the great guy.

And so, yeah, I think you need big personalities in the sport,

whether they're good guys, bad guys, villains, heroes, superheroes.

I think you need personalities in the sport, but yeah, I mean, everyone likes a good villain in a movie.

Well, and there has to be a protagonist, right? There's got to be somebody who's either outspoken, controversial.

You know, Total said that your former colleague, Christian Horner, that he loved to play that role.

And we're on serious XM, so the sport needs an asshole. Is that true?

You know, he certainly had his ways of operating.

He had a lot of fans, he had a huge amount of success, and then he had a lot of people that didn't like the way he roles.

But I think you could say that probably about all the team bosses out there.

So, yeah, you know, he was definitely a big personality, been around a long time,

and I think everyone loves to see a good rivalry.

Has it changed without having him there?

You know, it's early days. I think so.

You know, there are certain things that I think amongst the team bosses that we can speak more openly about on behalf of the sport

that doesn't necessarily immediately become political.

Laurent, who is now running Red Bull, is doing a great job. He's won the last couple races.

But, you know, look at how many championships and races he's won. He got the job done.

Yeah, you said recently that Formula One is in a healthier place since Laurent has taken over.

Yeah, and what I meant by that is, you know, I think there are time for off-the-record conversations

where you're talking about things that, you know, aren't intended to be political,

but you're talking about growth and health of the sport.

And, you know, unfortunately, sometimes you couldn't have that conversation

without it getting replayed and taken out of context or used in a way

where you couldn't actually have, in my opinion, a conversation that wouldn't maybe be spun a different way.

The popularity of the sport, and whether it's the protagonist or the antagonist

or whatever's happening inside or outside the paddock, the popularity cannot be questioned.

And that might be a reason why it's going as well as it is.

And the Motor Sports Network recently came out with a survey.

They surveyed 100,000 fans who were F1 fans, and the bottom line is the popularity could not be higher.

Yeah, sports in a great place.

Right. Why?

Oh, I think there's a lot of reasons why.

I think you got to start with Liberty acquiring the sport.

Obviously, Bernie did an unbelievable job to build the sport to where Liberty took over,

but Liberty made the sport very inclusive, you know, coming with Netflix.

I think it exposed people to how cool our sport is, not just on the track,

but how political and soap opera and villains and all those dramas that make the sport exciting to follow.

The competition has been amazing.

You know, we won the Constructors' Championship, came down to the last lap last year.

So the competition you had last year, I think it was seven multiple winners,

four different teams unheard of that level of competitiveness this year.

You know, even though we're from a Constructors standpoint, have a very healthy lead.

You know, different poll sitters, different winners.

Still a chase.

There's definitely still this championship is wide open from a driver's point of view.

Who can win next weekend?

Is it a Ferrari? Is it a McLaren? Is it a Mercedes?

Williams on the podium.

So I think the levels of competitiveness, the sport's never been more competitive.

The personalities, there's only 20 drivers.

Our broadcast partners, the Demand for Grand Prix, and then the sponsorship in the sport.

You know, we were the commercially the most successful racing team in the world at the moment

and look at the partners that we have that hadn't historically been in the sport,

the Googles, the Cisco's, the Dell's.

The Master Cards.

I could give quite a few plugs to our great roster of partners.

So when you kind of put that all together, the sport's an unbelievable economic health.

You know, our race team just had a transaction.

And if you look at what the valuation of our team was five years ago to, you know, what was reported,

which wasn't, you know, too wide of the mark.

Three billion dollars, correct.

It was a very healthy look at that value creation in less than five years.

So you had teams going bankrupt.

Now you have people that are, you know, begging to get into the sport.

You know, it took Cadillac quite a bit of effort to get.

So look at the supply and demand.

You know, five years ago was, you know, do you want to buy Williams or Force India or

Salber out of, you know, administration or going into administration now?

You've got to write a check, you know, north of a half a billion just to get a dance ticket

to come to the dance.

What a tremendous amount of value that the sport's created in five years.

Yeah.

And you look at Audi entering.

You mentioned Cadillac as well.

There's a momentum behind this that probably you couldn't have even sort of foreseen if

I were to have asked you five years ago.

It's far exceeded my expectations.

You know, Formula One is now a major sport in North America.

And you got to give a lot of credit to Austin for bringing Formula One back.

But I think without Netflix, you wouldn't have had a Miami.

You wouldn't have had a Vegas.

And so it's really cool for North America to be a major part of the footprint of Formula

One.

There was three things that we really needed in Formula One not long ago.

North America is a geographic market, youth, you know, our future, and women, a more diverse

audience.

And that is radically changed.

And I think that's driven a lot of our popularity.

Well, in the global F1 fan survey, which, you know, by the way, was the largest study

of its kind in the sport.

I mentioned earlier 100,000 self-identified fans participating across over 185 countries.

So it's not a United States survey.

94% of all respondents said they expect to be following F1 five years from now, including

97% from Gen Z.

I mean,

That's awesome.

It's exactly what we wanted in.

And I now hear from fans on the street.

So often, well, there's a few things that stick out.

One, people go, I never followed Formula One.

Now I won't miss a race.

So they've taken people, they've just created awareness.

They've created massive fan following.

And people have gone from not knowing the sport to having fans.

Normally that takes time.

The other is, I get stopped everywhere and it's either usually from youth or women.

And when it is from a guy, usually the comment is my daughter, my wife, my partner.

And so it's amazing how much the fan base has changed.

Yeah.

And when you talk about Austin, the Austin race I went to a few years ago, there were,

you mentioned earlier, 19, 20 year old women who were not there to see Post Malone perform,

but they were there for the race.

He did perform, but they were also there for the race.

They're for the race and the scene and the atmosphere is such a cool sport.

And whether you are a fan of the technology, the racing, the venues, the drivers,

the drama, the politics, there's so many different ways to digest our sport

and so many different fascinating aspects to it that I think that's why we have quite a diverse audience.

You're such a huge baseball fan, St. Louis Cardinals guy, right?

But I would venture to say that Formula One, especially on the weekends, if the NFL is not on,

even if it is on, it out distances baseball in this country in some segments.

I mean, it has taken a place that it rightfully didn't have before

and has surpassed the popularity of some other great American pastimes.

Yeah.

Let's stick with some other sports because I love my big.

I'm going to the Yankee game tonight.

And the Cardinals cubbies this weekend.

You also love your golf, too, right?

I do love my golf.

You are the rider.

Scrum by the Ryder Cup.

Justin Rose is a great friend as is a lot of the golfers are huge Formula One fans.

So I'll definitely be cheering him on this weekend.

You're also big into, I have so many other subjects to touch on,

but one of the key ones is about endurance because I happen to be at the Pebble Beach pre,

I guess, pre-Pebble Beach evening where you unveiled the 24-hour car for Le Mans,

which is a big moment for you.

What does that mean as the boss of the entire racing organization to get back to Le Mans from McLaren?

We've got great history there.

We won on our debut in 95 from a McLaren's point of view.

The three biggest races in the world are Monaco, Grand Prix, Indy 500 and 24 hours of Le Mans.

We're the only team to have won all three.

We're kind of called the Triple Crown.

Triple Crown, yeah.

We won them in three different decades.

We want to win them all in the same decade in this Papaya era that we're in,

which I think would be really cool.

Entering the World Endurance Championship, which is the 24 hours of Le Mans as part of that series,

is a great way for us to work more collaboratively with our automotive brothers and sisters, if you'd like.

That's what we have history in.

We've won the Indianapolis 500 twice.

We're coming off of our most successful year in IndyCar since we got back involved winning a couple races,

a few polls, 12 podiums.

I like where McLaren racing is.

Now we need to work very hard to keep us at the front.

To that point, demonstrating a success level at a place like Le Mans is unparalleled.

It is something that sets a benchmark for almost all of the other circuits, doesn't it?

I mean, it has that.

It's an amazing race.

It propels you.

Yeah.

And same with the Indy 500.

These races are so long that not only have to be fast and good, but lady luck needs to be on your side.

So someone asked me the other day, which is the hardest race to win.

And it's like, I don't know.

Where do you start?

You've got to have an unbelievably fast race car and driver to drive it perfectly to win Monaco.

Indy, you've got to stay out of trouble.

500 miles.

And Le Mans.

You need to last 24 hours.

And you need to do a better job than everyone else.

I mean, those are all quests, that's for sure.

Is there a unifying McLaren identity across all of those series?

Or do you let each program run its own culture?

No, I think culture-wise, it's the same.

You know, we're all about our fans.

We recognize without fans there would be no McLaren, there would be no racing.

So we're very fan-focused in how we present our racing team and how we like to engage with our fans

and be in a very inclusive team.

Having fun is something that is kind of core to our ways of working.

Fun with our fans, fun with our drivers, fun with the racing.

Not to be mistaken for deadly serious.

But, you know, we're in sport.

We are in the entertainment business.

I don't understand those that see sport as not entertainment.

I think if you buy tickets to see something, whether it's a rock concert, a motor race, a fireworks show, a movie,

that's called entertainment.

So entertainment and engagement with our fans is something that's core to everything that we do we want to win.

So, you know, we've got to have the best drivers, the best team, make sure we have healthy budgets, great partners.

So I know I think all three teams are very similar in that sense.

You all learn from each other too, right?

100%. Yeah, there's something you can always be learning every day.

I want to go back to endurance for a second because a rather famous racer just recently completed his endurance license.

You might be facing him on the grid on a regular basis, Max Verstappen.

You said recently that you'd be happy to work with Max Verstappen in endurance racing.

I mean, maybe even as a teammate at some stage, does that make sense for you?

Yeah, I'm not sure he'd want me as a teammate.

I used to race against his father, Yos, who was extremely quick and I think could have had a better Formula One career,

but was kind of in the wrong place at the right time, right?

He was Schumacher's teammate at the beginning.

I'm going to drop in in the middle of the season.

Who wants to be Schumacher's teammate?

And kind of dropped in because JJ Aledo was injured.

Yeah, I mean, Max is a massive talent.

We have a lot of racing teams, so maybe one of these days we'll go racing with him.

I mean, massive talent is right and a massive talent who has accomplished so much so quickly

and there's a lot of talk about him wanting to take on new challenges.

Endurance is the natural one and obviously getting his license recently helps check that box.

Yeah, I think we did it with Fernando Alonzo when we brought him D&D.

We're a racing team, we're racers, so I like that old school.

Mario Andretti used to race everything.

Dan Gurney, Bruce McLaren, so hats off to Max that on his weekend off of being at a Formula One race,

he wants to be in a race car driving around the old Nordschleife.

I think that's really cool.

I think so too.

What else is cool, another thing is that you've recently put pen to paper on a book.

Yep.

Tell me about that process.

What was that like?

It was a hard process.

I'm not sure I'd want to do that again.

That's what most authors say.

Yeah, I mean, it's cool.

I'm happy with the final product.

It'll be interesting to see what everyone thinks of it that reads it.

I hope they find it entertaining, but I was approached and I never thought I'd be a,

let's do a book, but it's got some fun stories, but it's about what I've learned over the years.

So it's not an autobiography.

It's much more about lessons in business, because I've been in business my whole life.

A lot of stories, but I took it very seriously because I wanted it to be accurate.

So a lot of drafting, a lot of reading, but you'll see that I'm not very into school.

So it did feel like doing homework once I got going.

I don't want to do any more homework, but it's good.

It's got some funny stories, so hopefully it lands well.

How did you find the time to do that?

It was very time consuming.

So that's the part where doing another book, I'll need to recover from it,

because it is very time consuming more so than I thought,

but that was more because I'm a perfectionist and wanted to make sure we got it right.

Thematically, again, you're going to hit on some business leadership insights,

some great stories.

Is there a story you can share with us that was a favorite of yours?

Probably my Mickey Mantle story.

Tell me that.

To baseball.

I was 12, 13 years old.

I found out he played golf at Preston Trails Country Club.

I don't know anything about golf, but he was a huge baseball guy.

Mickey Mantle was my guy.

So I called the golf club every day asking if Mickey Mantle was in.

And after about two weeks, they said, hold on.

And about 15 minutes went by, and I thought, oh my God,

I'm going to be on the phone with Mickey Mantle here.

And he picked up the phone.

He thought it was a prank call, so he chewed me out, hung up the phone.

I was not in good shape having just been chewed out by my hero.

My mom came into the room and said, what's wrong?

I explained it to her.

She disappeared, got him back on the phone.

He thought it was a prank, and he felt terrible.

And he said, if you can make your way to Dallas,

I'll spend some time with your kid.

And my brother and my mom and I got on a plane

and went to the Dallas Hilton, spent half a day with Mickey Mantle.

So I think that was part of my sales career,

which was finding out how to get in somewhere

and just call, call, call, call, call.

Cold calls.

And cold calls.

And it was amazing.

Wow.

What was he like in person?

So cool.

He told us a ton of stories.

I mean, I was in awe the whole time.

And he was very nice.

He brought his manager with him and just told us stories,

signed a bunch of stuff.

My biggest regret, I've got all the signed stuff.

I'm going to bring a camera.

Oh.

I'll have a single photo.

Lots of autographs, a lot of posters and things that he brought

but not a single photo with Mickey Mantle.

Who would have thought?

Baseball heroes are pretty unique when you're a kid.

I mean, they're the biggest things.

And I mean, think about, you know, with what goes on today.

I mean, the fact that Mickey Mantle felt bad and said,

he literally spent three, four hours with us

sitting in the lobby and talking.

This is like early 80s, mid 80s.

This would have been early 80s.

And I mean, that's a pretty, pretty legendary thing.

That's a legendary thing.

Yeah.

How do you avoid the trap of short-term glory?

I mean, you're right in the mix here of the glory days,

as Bruce would say.

Recognizing that we got to keep working extremely hard

to try and keep these glory days extended.

But we also know this is sport and no one wins forever.

So I live in a little bit of fear and paranoia.

So for me personally, that's what gets me up out of bed every day

is I take nothing for granted.

Even the worst team in Formula One is great.

So our competition is immense.

Look at us at the beginning of 23.

We were the worst team on the grid.

And by the end, we were the second best team.

And, you know, everyone can do that.

And so therefore we keep our feet on the ground,

enjoy the moment, but keep working hard

so we can continue to enjoy the moment.

I know this is a way to premature question,

but because I only see you once every few years,

I'll ask you this anyway.

But when you think about your time with McLaren

and what you've accomplished,

what's the legacy that you want to leave

culturally and competitively?

Yeah, I don't think about it

because I feel like I'm in the peak of my career

and because it's not driving.

And I feel like I can have my peak for another 10 to 15 years.

But, you know, I'd like us to be a team

that was very successful on track,

but one that was all about the fans

and all about the team and our culture.

So I guess, you know, looking back in 20 years' time,

you know, I remember the first time, you know,

I met Mickey Mantle.

I remember the first time I met a racing driver

and how that turned me into a fan for life.

So I hope that we can leave some memories

that in 20 years' time,

that autograph we stopped for, that selfie

or that engagement with the fan

that we turned people into lifelong McLaren fans

and racing fans.

You stopped in Austin when I saw you in the paddock.

You didn't know who I was,

but you did take a picture with me on my wall.

So you're living up to exactly what you said.

I know how much of an impression

every time I met someone made on me good or bad.

So I want to make sure,

because I remember the bad ones, too,

I want to make sure that every memory we leave behind

is a good one.

Just a couple more.

What's the biggest misconception

that fans have about what it takes

to run a team at this level?

Ooh.

Probably how complicated it is.

And I wish we could explain

every aspect that goes into our decision-making,

but make no mistake about it.

We also get it wrong.

So that's probably, you know,

a frustration or something that people

don't necessarily understand.

And I understand it

because I don't go to every race.

I go to the majority of the races,

but sometimes I'm back at the factory.

Sometimes I'm traveling.

Sometimes I'm at an IndyCar race

because it's, you know, important.

I'm there and the TV product is awesome.

But there's so much data going on that,

you know, I can tell you that my viewing experience

when I'm not on pit wall is different

because I'm lacking a lot of data.

But you know what?

Without fans,

we wouldn't have a Formula One.

So I appreciate their passion for the sport.

What's it going to mean to you

when you raise the trophy again at the end of the year?

I'm going to presuppose that that happens.

The constructors look pretty good.

So I feel more confident

in talking about that one

than the drivers where, you know,

Max is very much still in the game.

It's going to be awesome.

The first one was especially coming down

to the last lap, last race,

and against Ferrari, right?

I kind of grew up McLaren, Ferrari, and Williams.

And so to me, you know,

the story of competing with Ferrari

for your first World Championship

just couldn't have been sweeter.

You're wearing papaya socks in the studio today,

so you're living up to it.

You are the man who has trademarked Papaya Nation.

You are leading them.

It's cool that we've come up with a color

that can be described as papaya,

because I've never heard another team,

those red teams, there's pinstripe teams,

there's blue teams,

but I don't know of any other sport

that has a papaya team, so that's worked out quite well.

You own it, Zach.

We got to thank Bruce for that one.

We got to thank Bruce for a lot of things.

Congratulations on everything you've accomplished

since I saw you last.

Thank you.

Welcome back into Cars & Culture.

I'm your host, Jason Stein.

Now, a continuation of our look back at 2025

on Cars & Culture.

To see my interviews from this year,

go to the Cars & Culture YouTube channel.

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and more than 2,000 videos.

Last August, I sat down with legendary car designer, Chip Fuss.

Now, a portion of my interview with Chip,

which begins with me asking about his design philosophy

when he approaches a classic build.

Well, I like the way you said that, it whispers.

I don't ever want to slap somebody in the face

with alterations that I've made to a car.

Right.

The experience I want a viewer to have

when they walk up to one of our builds

is I want them to look at it and think,

I don't remember this car being this pretty.

And then they discover the changes that we did.

And if you have a park next to a stock one,

then you would see the subtle differences

and what I had said earlier about, you know,

how we tailor fit things.

I may completely change something or redesign it,

but I never want it to look like a different designer did it.

I want it to look like whoever the designer was

at the original manufacturer, whichever car it is,

if it's a Ford or a Chevy, Chrysler, Toyota,

I don't care what the car is.

But whatever the initial designer's idea was,

I want the car to look like this is a car

that was shown at an auto show

before the production car came out.

Yeah.

How do you decide what to leave alone

and maybe what to reimagine?

You know, that's something that as a designer

can also be a curse because when you look at something,

it might just be proportions.

But in my mind, you know, I'll see things that bother me.

And I just want to fix the things that bother me,

whether it's the way something fits or something looks heavy.

I just want to tailor it so that everything looks balanced.

That's a process that over time, Chip,

that I guess if you're talking to young designers

that you have to acquire that kind of restraint

and that discipline, don't you?

Well, it's real easy to be different.

It's difficult to be tasteful.

Right, right.

And there's a restraint in your work that feels intentional.

Well, thank you.

It's almost like you're not trying to...

You said earlier, you're not trying to outdo the car.

You just try to understand it, right?

Right.

Yeah.

You know, you can see a woman that's all decorated

with all kinds of jewelry and, you know,

all kinds of different clothes and whatnot,

but you can peel the layers away,

take off the hat and get down to just a beautiful dress

and maybe necklace and a single ring and maybe a pair of earrings.

And you have an absolutely beautiful, elegant woman there.

But when they're way overdone,

which is what happens to show cars,

it's how much can I do to make this different?

It no longer is elegant.

Yeah, well said.

Well said.

Automotive design in general is shifting toward electrics,

towards some, in some cases, minimalism,

software-led experiences.

How do you see the soul of custom-building evolving?

Well, it depends on who the customizer is

because, you know, when you're in this industry,

you know when you see a car, who built it.

And that's the soul,

because they're bringing their personal taste into the build.

And, you know, let's face it,

we're all only as good as our customers allow us to be.

And it's the customers that allow us to build our best form

that get the best cars.

Could you see a world,

I want to go back to what I just said about electrics,

could you see a world where foos design

maybe builds an EV that still feels,

dare I say, emotional?

I don't know if you ever saw the Jaguar that we did.

No, I didn't.

We did that for a customer, Glenn Woosley.

We built an E-type Jaguar for him.

It ended up having an LS3 motor in it,

but I built an engine cover that made it look like

it could have been a V12 under there.

But when Glenn first came in,

he wanted to build an electric car.

And that was where we were headed.

And then through the design phase,

he finally turned and said,

you know what, I think if I build an electric car,

I'm going to miss the roar of the engine.

So we went back,

but I would never rule out doing an electric car.

You know, in design, I like to say,

I would never say no to any technology,

because then you're putting limits on your creativity.

So if I were going to build an electric car,

you know, at first I would have to study it

and find out what elements what I really want to use

and then build the car around that.

What is your opinion of the current state of design?

Well, you have such a wide variety of what's being done out there,

but you can definitely tell the computer is really pushing

what's happening today.

You know, really hard lines and things that

couldn't necessarily be built by hand.

You know, the details are all being built by a computer.

And it's really the computer has changed the custom car world

in a huge way.

There are so many great shops doing nice work now

because they can scan a car,

have that car in the computer,

redesign things,

know where they're going to cut a panel off

and what they're going to change.

They can 3D print it and then build it.

And today it's not necessarily about a craftsman

building all those components.

It's about fit and finish craftsman

sanding and prepping those parts for paint

before they assemble it.

So it's a different world,

but it's really cool to see so many different shops

doing high quality work.

So does that make design harder or easier

or just different?

It's different,

but I think design is way easier today

for the people that are, you know,

people that don't necessarily know how to draw,

but they can do it in the computer.

So it's a game changer because there's so many more people

in the industry today.

Let's talk about youth and mentorship and legacy.

Are there younger builders or designers

that you're watching now and thinking,

yeah, they get it?

There's a lot of builders out there.

They're just fun to see what they're doing.

And, you know, like I say,

this industry has grown immensely

since 98 when Boyd's shop closed.

And I don't know how many people realize,

I didn't even realize it at the time.

When I was working at Boyd's, you know,

a customer could come in with drawings

that he's already taken to other shops

and they would look at it and say, you know,

it costs you 500,000 to build this car.

And Boyd would look at it and say,

we can do that for 300,000.

And what it was doing at the time

that I didn't realize until after Boyd's had gone bankrupt

is we basically had

a monopoly on the industry

because Boyd could build those cars.

We had the hot rod or the wheel shop

that was funding the hot rod shop.

And we could build things that it didn't matter

if we lost a little bit of money,

but Boyd's was building the leading cars,

having his wheels and parts on them.

And it was basically a marketing tool

for all the Boyd products.

Wow.

When Boyd's went bankrupt,

a lot of other shops just exploded

and people started coming from everywhere.

What advice, Chip,

would you give to somebody walking into the shop

on day one today,

maybe sweeping the floor like you did?

Don't do what you're doing for money.

Do it for the passion. The money will follow.

Yeah, the money will follow.

I have done things for next to nothing

so many times because I wanted to do it

and it paid off in the end.

Yeah, right.

I worked for a design firm in Santa Barbara

and the chief designer there was Mark Sternberger.

And at the time,

I was working in the back shop of this design firm.

Mark Sternberger was the lead designer.

He had an apprentice named Mark Nieper.

And when Mark left, he came out and told me,

he says, hey, I'm leaving if you want to work with Mark

because I had gone halfway through our center

and I love to draw.

But I had grown up in my dad's shop fabricating

so I had a job in this design firm as a fabricator.

But I went in, talked to Mark,

told him that I would love to be his apprentice

and would love to work with him.

And he said, well, do a drawing in my style.

Bring it in when you're done

and we'll see if we can work together.

So I went home that night

and did an illustration in his style.

And I brought it back at eight o'clock in the morning,

showed it to him.

He looked at it.

He says, when did you do this?

And I said, I did it when I got home last night.

And he said, yeah, we can work together.

And he said, you know,

and I was making a good hourly rate in the shop.

But he says, well, I need to pay you.

I said, I'll tell you what,

pay me $7 an hour for a month.

We'll work together.

And then you tell me what I'm worth to you.

And a year and a half later,

he calls me up to his office and I go in there

and he says, what are you making an hour now?

And I said, Mark, I've been meaning to talk to you

because I'm still at the $7 an hour that I told you

I'd work for you for one month that,

but I love what I'm doing

and I wouldn't change it for anything.

But I am flat broke right now.

I won't even be able to make my payment,

my rent this month.

And he says, oh my gosh, I am so sorry.

He said, I thought human resources was taking care of you

and that they were giving you raises.

And he gave me a raise right there

and gave me a bonus so I could cover my rent.

And what I ended up getting out of it is

OSHA Corporation was the name of the company.

They paid for me to go through Art Center and get my degree.

And I don't think they ever would have done that

had I not shown them that I was in it for the long run.

That's a great story Chip.

Wow.

You have a new relationship with Hemmings.

Yes.

You are helping to launch.

The new part of that relationship is the fact that it is official.

Right.

But I have been involved.

I've known of Hemmings as long as I can remember.

My dad always had a Hemmings magazine

and looking for cars for customers.

Hemmings is the first place I've ever looked.

We'd find the car that we're going to modify.

But now officially I am with Hemmings

and helping them to share with the rest of the world

Hemmings Motor News and also the new Hemmings Motor Club.

The Hemmings Motor Club is a membership program built for

classic car lovers who really want to take their passion to the next level.

And the program is a recent launch.

And as are you officially like you said with them.

So why are you stepping in as the first founding member of the Hemmings Motor Club?

Well, like I say, I've been with them forever.

But you know, it's funny.

They said, what's it mean to be the first member?

Well, being the first member wasn't really the exciting part.

The exciting part is bringing everybody else in so that we can all share our stories

and communicate together and have some of these.

You know, we're going to have, you know, online discussions

and talk about, you know, what's the next trends.

And, you know, as a member, you get, you know, some early advanced notice of cars

that are coming available on Hemmings and, you know, being a member is going to help out,

you know, all of us to be the first ones to see a car that's available

or, you know, be able to share some news or information,

get discounts through other members and people in the industry.

There's a 5% discount on insurance through one of the insurance companies.

And, you know, I'm just excited to help grow this and see where it takes us.

You're kind of helping to support the next generation of enthusiasts here, aren't you?

At your core.

Well, I hope so because, you know, it's, you know, there are future.

If we don't get the younger guys in here, you know, where's it going to go?

You know, if it's just a bunch of old guys in there, you know, but like for me,

I love cars because my dad loved cars originally, but then my passion grew to what it is today.

But if it wasn't for my dad introducing me to it and sharing his passion,

you know, I may not have had what I have today.

Yeah, it becomes generational. Yeah, exactly.

But I know if my dad was going to the shop, I was in the truck before him

because I wanted to go to the shop and, you know, cut things up and build things that, you know, to me,

I like old cars and restoration isn't my passion.

It's modification that is.

And what my dad did was modify these cars.

So I was excited to go to the shop with him and cut things up and move it around

and make it cooler than what actually what once was.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

And it's like I say, it's a curse because what I learned from him was how to see things.

What's the state of the collector car community today?

And maybe Chip, let me ask you, where is it headed?

Well, if I knew it was headed, I'd be going there now.

But, you know, it's all the individuals that do what they want to do and feed their passion the way that they want to feed it.

And every once in a while, somebody stumbles on something and does something that triggers a whole new trend in the industry.

And that's what I really enjoy about this whole industry is seeing something new.

And you don't want to copy it, but you want to use it to better your next project.

Yeah, agreed.

One more thing on the Motor Club.

I know you mentioned the perks a minute ago, but it's also about something else too, isn't it?

Chip, it's about belonging, right?

It's about being somewhere with other like-minded individuals.

And yes, there are benefits, but it's kind of the ultimate collector car experience, isn't it?

Just being with others who maybe offer something larger in terms of a community.

You know, Hemmings has been around for over 70 years now, and it's the first place you want to go when you're looking for a car in the industry.

But at any one time, just on their site, you've got 30,000 cars that are available for sale.

And I go on their site, and what I was telling you earlier about doing emails and going down a rabbit hole and getting lost,

that's what happens to me when I go on the Hemmings deal.

I'm just looking at cars and looking at cars and looking at cars.

And then I'll see a car that sparks something else, and then I want to go down.

Okay, let me look at more of those.

Oh, let me look at more of those.

And I can easily, I'll lose three, four hours just on the Hemmings website looking at cars.

And then every once in a while, I'll see something and I'll, okay, let me take a picture of that.

And it also sparks ideas for me.

I'll see something, I think, what could I do with that car?

And I'll do a quick little sketch of something.

And, you know, it feeds my passion, and that's what it'll do for anybody else that goes on that website or joins the Motor Club.

Yeah, yeah.

Let's talk about some personal projects and maybe a bit of reflection chip here in the final few minutes.

What's a build, maybe not the most famous one that still sticks with you personally?

Well, every one of them sticks with me personally because they're like my children.

But one of the things that I love most about this industry is, you know, I've been involved with the manufacturers where you build a show car,

it gets shown and then it gets put in a warehouse and it disappears.

When you're in the automotive industry and you're building custom cars for somebody, that's their baby.

You just made their dream come true.

And I can be at a show and walk around a corner and see a car that I built with my father 40 years ago.

The same owner still has it. He's there, he's loving it, he's taking care of it.

And, you know, it's like seeing one of your kids and that's what every one of these builds is.

And I love that they don't get put in a warehouse and just store it away.

That these are used, they become a lifestyle.

It's, you know, we've got customers that I don't believe the customers are just a customer.

They become best friends while you're building their car.

And you get to see your best friends when you go to a good guy's show or one of these events that's out there that everybody's bringing their cars to.

You know, it's not out of the ordinary for me to go to a show and see five or six cars that I've been involved with in the past.

Yeah, yeah. Anything that a story or a process or a person about a certain build that you did that really stands out that's really special?

I mean, if I say to you, okay, what's one that comes to mind? I know they're all great, but one that comes to mind.

I would say the best customer I've ever had was Wes Rydell.

Okay.

And, you know, I've had other customers that have been just as good, but Wes was the first one that ever told me, just do your best.

Make it what you want.

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Episode 231: Best of 2025 Part 1 (Zak Brown, Chip Foose)

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