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Episode 250: Explorer & Former Auto Executive Roland Krueger
Episode 250: Explorer & Former Auto Executive Roland Krueger
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About this episode
Roland Krueger—longtime BMW executive and former auto and tech leader—joins Jason Stein to connect polar exploration with leadership. Krueger describes crossing the Greenland Ice Cap and going to the geographic south pole twice, then talks about recent East Antarctica work, from route planning and -40°C nights to wind gusts over 100 km/h. The conversation ties expedition preparation, honest communication, and iterative testing to how companies should operate amid uncertainty, including a product-first view of what customers buy.
Explorer & Former Auto Executive Roland Krueger
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Ford Explorer
"... story. Because outside of the boardroom, he's an explorer in the truest sense of the word. Just recently, h..."
The Ford Explorer is a midsize SUV made for carrying people and gear comfortably. It’s meant for normal driving but can also handle longer trips and rougher roads better than a typical sedan. The name “Explorer” fits the idea of going places and traveling.
The Ford Explorer is a midsize SUV built for everyday family use, with enough space and capability to handle road trips and light off-road conditions. It’s a long-running model that often comes up in conversations about how SUVs evolved in comfort, technology, and practicality. In a podcast, it may be mentioned to connect the idea of “exploring” with a real vehicle that’s designed for travel.
Car
Ford Expedition
"...you know, almost 30 years fast forward, did a few expeditions and he influenced me a lot and drew a lot from th..."
The Ford Expedition is a large SUV designed to carry more people and handle bigger trips. It’s built for comfort on highways and for tasks like towing or transporting lots of gear. The word “expedition” matches the idea of traveling farther and doing more than everyday errands.
The Ford Expedition is a full-size SUV known for seating capacity and hauling ability, making it a common choice for larger families and towing-focused lifestyles. It’s often discussed as a vehicle that’s built to go long distances and handle bigger loads. In the podcast context, “expeditions” likely ties the vehicle’s purpose—big, capable travel—to the theme of adventure.
Car
smart car
"I'm actually originally, I'm a designer. I also designed the car. I'm a designer of the interior of the first smart car."
Smart cars are small cars designed mainly for city driving. Here, the guest is saying he helped design the interior for the very first smart car.
The smart car is a small, city-focused vehicle brand known for compact packaging and efficient design. In this segment, the guest specifically says he designed the interior of the first smart car, which ties his background to early smart’s product direction and ergonomics.
Concept
customers buy products, they don't buy processes
"I personally believe that customers buy products, they don't buy processes. And we should focus on good products..."
The idea here is that buyers care about the finished car—how it drives, feels, and works—more than how the company runs its internal steps. The company should focus on making a great product, not just improving internal procedures.
This is a product-vs-process philosophy: the guest argues that customers ultimately care about the end result (the car and its features), not the internal workflow used to build it. In an automotive context, it’s a reminder that engineering and manufacturing choices should translate into tangible customer value.
Concept
core competence
"Everybody should know what is their core competence and focus on their competence and offer the best product they can give to the customer."
Core competence means the main thing a company is best at. The guest is saying automakers should concentrate on what they’re good at when making cars, especially when things are changing.
Core competence is the set of capabilities a company does especially well, which it should prioritize when developing products. The guest uses it to argue that automakers should focus on their strengths and build cars that reflect that expertise, especially during uncertainty.
Brand
brand
"develop a product that is not only attractive, but also stands for something. That's what your brand represents."
A brand is basically what people think of when they hear a company’s name. In cars, it’s the reputation and “what they stand for,” not just the logo.
In automotive marketing, a brand is the identity and promise a company builds around its products—what customers associate with the company’s cars. The guest links brand to product focus and competence, arguing that what the brand represents should guide decisions.
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The automobile is one of the most important inventions that revolutionize the modern world.
In America, the rich history of car culture runs deep as technology continues to shape the future
of the industry. Jason Stein is here to share the stories of people passionate about cars from
industry leaders and innovators to car obsessed celebrities. Buckle up as Jason takes you inside
the boardroom onto the track and around the bend on Cars and Culture on SiriusXM Business Radio.
Welcome into the 250th episode of Cars and Culture with Jason Stein here on SiriusXM Business
Channel 132. Great to have you along for the ride with us. On this edition of Cars and Culture,
we're talking about exploration, not as a metaphor, but as something very real. Because in this
industry, in the auto industry, we often talk about pushing boundaries, new technology, new markets,
new ideas. But what does it actually mean to go somewhere no one has gone before?
Roland Kruger knows that answer firsthand. He spent much of his career at the very top
of the global business world, leading Infinity, Dyson. He was a longtime BMW executive. And he
led organizations where the stakes were high and the decisions complex, and the margin for error
often razor thin. But that's only part of Roland's story. Because outside of the boardroom, he's
an explorer in the truest sense of the word. Just recently, he completed an extraordinary
Antarctic ski expedition, what's known as a Terra incognita route alongside his partner,
Lars Ebsen. Together, they charted a previously unexplored path through the Queen Maud Mountains
in East Antarctica, a route so remote and technically demanding it had never been attempted before.
18 days, extreme cold, violent winds coming off the polar plateau, whiteouts, total isolation.
And this wasn't done on a whim. More than a year and a half of planning, mapping,
satellite analysis, logistics, and training, all to prepare for conditions where decisions
aren't just important, they're critical. In fact, this expedition carried historical
significance as well, flying an official Explorers Club flag, one that dates back to 1935, and one
that Roland recently returned at the 118th Annual Explorers Club Dinner in New York City.
So when we talk about leadership, resilience, and decision-making under pressure,
Roland Kruger has lived it, not just in the boardroom, but in environments where the
consequences are very real. And that's what makes this conversation so compelling. Because
the lessons from the South Pole, preparation, adaptability, trust, and clarity under pressure
translate directly into how complex global organizations are led today. In this conversation,
we'll talk about what drives someone from the CEO suite into extreme exploration,
how you prepare for the unknown in business and in life, the connection between survival in
Antarctica and leadership in global companies, and what all of this says about risk, decision-making,
and human performance. Because whether you're leading a company or navigating a route that's
never been mapped, the principles aren't all that different. Now my conversation with Explorer,
Roland Kruger. Hi, I'm Roland Kruger, and this is Cars in Culture with Jason Sline,
and it's good to see you. Well, it's great to see you. It's great to have you on my program.
We go back a long way, more in the auto industry than we do Arctic and Arctic exploring,
but it is great to have you here on the show. Thank you, and I hope you are well.
Yes, well, it is a great honor. My thanks to you to take the time and speak about what we've done
lately and also before, so I'm quite honored to be on your show. Thank you. Well, thank you.
One of the things that you did not deal with on a regular basis when you were at the highest
levels of BMW or Infiniti or Dyson is spending time in extreme environments on Earth.
This is what you've been doing since I saw you last. Let's start at the beginning, Roland,
because when I knew you last, you were in a very different position, and now,
maybe even your identity has changed. Catch us up on life since some of your industry experience.
Yeah. Well, again, thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about this. Obviously,
in addition to my professional life in the automotive industry and other industries lately,
I have been doing expeditions for quite a while during my, I would say, private life, which had a
big influence on my professional life. I've been skiing through the polar regions since the beginning
of the 2000s. I crossed the Greenland Ice Cap. I went to the geographic south pole twice.
I'm the first German to ski to the geographic south pole unsupported and solo.
And recently, we just finished an expedition in East Antarctica. That was in November last year,
while skiing from a certain areas of a mountain range, which is called Queen Mald Mountains,
to a Norwegian research station. And that expedition was a flag expedition by the
and it was again, something that you take your experience, your past experience from exploration,
but also you learn a lot. And I transfer that a lot into my professional life and how to
conduct myself as well as also how to develop leadership principles.
The private piece of this, where does, where does a passion to do some of those things even
begin, Roland? How did it begin? Yeah, that's a question I've been asked a lot. So there are a
couple of topics to it. So first of all, and you will remember this, everybody has a childhood
where you have certain things that you're fascinated about. And that is something that I carry.
And most probably everyone carries with him or her. So in the past, I was fascinated about the
tales and the stories and the books about explorers and people who, you know, went out,
kind of pushed the boundaries and found places or went to places where they haven't been.
And one of those stories was the story of Ronald Amunds and the Norwegian explorer who went to
the South Pole, was the first person to stand at the geographic South Pole. And that's kind of a
childhood memory of these stories. And I carried this on. So I started to travel myself
and put it very directly by coincidence, saw a lecture of a Norwegian explorer, a current
explorer, his name is Elling Kage. And he was the first person who skied solo across the Antarctic
continent to the South Pole, the geographic South Pole, first one solo. And when I listened to him,
actually, you can do this. So I need to talk to him. So I talked to him and he gave me some tips.
That was in 98. And then I talked to him, gave me some tips, names to the contact
and so on. And out of this, you know, I developed these contacts and voila, you know, almost 30
years fast forward, did a few expeditions and he influenced me a lot and drew a lot from that. So
the beginning is really to not lose your dream, to take your dream through your life and make
something out of it. But when you listen to a lecture of someone as influential as he is,
it doesn't often prompt those in the audience to decide that they're now going to go skiing in
extreme areas. You have to get from one point to the next, right? Yeah, that's true. That is
absolutely true. So you have to prepare yourself. And that's most probably the red thread through
everything. What is so fascinating about this is that you can achieve seemingly unachievable goals
by conditioning yourself by training, but especially by preparing, preparing physically,
but also preparing mentally. And that is something that you draw from quite a lot also in your
professional life. And it becomes kind of a theme, it becomes a rhythm, you prepare for
certain things. And the same is also in if you're in an organization, or even in the car industry,
you know, if you want to build something new or design something new, you got to be prepared,
you have to make sure you've got your your basis in check, I always say you have to build your
foundation. And if you do an expedition, that is exactly the same thing. The reason why this is so
important is if you have that foundation, you are much better in a position to deal with the
unforeseen, because you have your basis covered, so to say. And things that you hadn't expected,
or things that come your way that might or potentially throw you off course, will not,
because you know that you've got the rest in check, and you can mentally and physically
concentrate on what is really important to not let your goal slip. And that's very important.
Training from one to the other. Before we get to Antarctica, when you think about your identity
today, Roland, are you a CEO who explores or an explorer who leads?
I would not categorically pick one, I think it's both. I think when you ask me this directly,
I draw from the experience. It shapes my idea of how leadership can work. But on the other side,
it also influences me privately. So it has it has both aspects, I think, and that is very important.
They're always running in parallel then. To some extent, yes. Yeah, you could say that.
Does one world ever feel like an escape from the other?
I think it's complementary. Because what you learn from one, you can apply to the other and vice
versa. And it gives you an opportunity to do things that, like I said, sometimes you thought
not possible. I come back to what I saw with Erling Karke. I didn't know that this happened.
And when he when he gave his lecture, I thought like, wow, you know, you can actually do this.
And I think that inspiration is very, very important. And if I can give that inspiration
also to a team leading a team or leading an organization, that is great. That's a big motivation.
So last year, you and your partner Lars Ebbison, am I saying his name correctly? Ebbison?
Yeah, yeah, Lars Ebbison. You both completed this Antarctic ski expedition Terra incognita.
And that and you were covering an unexplored route through the Queen Maud Mountains, as you said,
in East Antarctica. And it was this flag expedition for the Explorers Club. You were carrying flag
number 61 first flown on an Explorers Club expedition in 1935. Yes, almost 100 years ago.
Yes. Now that flag that you carried is now on the route. The route is now known as the Kruger
Ebbison route through that through Queen Maud. You're in New York right now, returning that flag
to the World Famous Explorers Club during the 118th Explorers Club annual dinner in New York City.
What does all of that mean to you? Well, first of all, it means a lot. But on top of that,
it is very, it's a big honor to have been awarded with the flag for this expedition.
And now to bring it back for explorers, that is something that is very important. I always say,
you know, to try to get there is an option. But to come back is mandatory.
Yeah. So you have to come back and you return that flag. And it's a sign. It's an honor. And
it's something very special. It's kind of a closing that part of the expedition
and returning the flag. So I'm looking forward also to the conversations I'm going to have in the
next weekend. I bet. Not a small undertaking. You talked about planning extensively. More than a
year and a half went into the planning process, including mapping, satellite study, logistics,
gear testing, training. It wasn't just physically demanding, though. It was the fact that this
Terra Incognita expedition was a completely new route. What drew you to that level of uncertainty?
That's also a little bit of a longer story. Actually, the idea came up when Lars and myself,
we know each other for a long time for more than 20 years. We sat down on the year before
and we realized that both of us have been to the South Pole. Both of us have done a lot of things.
But we want to do something that is, that has not been done before in that area if we find the
opportunity to do so. That's the one and a half years before where we sat down. We looked at the
map. We took the map and said, where are areas that are fascinating that are something that
wasn't done yet? We wanted to see if we can do that. We had a few options. Over time, we then came
to this conclusion. My idea was to ski the other way because it was actually easier to be dropped
at that research station because they have a ski way and then ski the other way. But because of
wind and weather at the time when we were planning to do this, we decided we're going to
turn this around and go the other way. It was a little bit of an iterative process.
But about a year before, we decided on the route and then, like you say, we went through the
satellite pictures and the maps and looked at the equipment, what to bring and obviously trained
ourselves for this. The route started at a very ominous location called the Wolf's Fang.
Yes. The Dreigalski Mountains, as it's known apparently, all the way to Troll,
where that Norwegian research station is. And you were picked up after 18 days of skiing,
but the route was not only highly technical, but it was also incredibly dangerous.
Exceptionally low temperatures, highly forceful winds. You navigated several areas where open ice,
big cracks, spring storms. Tell us what you encountered. Take me to the hardest moments
of the expedition. Actually, the most interesting part in hindsight was that when we were dropped
off in the Wolf's Fang right in the middle of this mountain range. Like you say, it's a very
special name. The reason why it is called that way is it looks like the fangs of a wolf where
the teeth peek through the ice cap. The mountains look like teeth that break through the ice cap.
And so we were dropped off right in the middle of that at about altitude of 2000 meters above sea
level. And it is early in the season. So the season starts actually at the end of November,
usually for expeditions. And we were there at the beginning of the November. And the first thing
that we realized is it's still very early and it was unexpectedly cold. And usually in Antarctica,
you have the sun circling around you because there's 24 hours sunlight during that time.
So while it is cold, when you're in the tent and it's a good tent that's insulated,
you know, you get some warmth from the sun. Just to give you an idea, the sun can be sometimes
so strong that you can charge your solar panel inside the tent. And so there is some warmth
within the tent usually. But we were pitching our first tent, our first camp right under the biggest
mountain in the Wolfsfang mountain range. The sun came around and we ended up in the shadow of this
big mountain, Uwitana. And it was really, really cold unexpectedly. And it was the first day. We
weren't really fully acclimatized. And so that was the first one. There was a kind of wake up
call going like, whoa, you know, this is really real. And it was very, very cold unexpectedly.
We know how to manage it. But since we just had been dropped off our plane, so we had to deal with
it. And then it just developed over time. So it was very windy. Since when the temperatures are
changing in Antarctica, you have a lot of catabatic winds coming down from the polar plateau.
That was more challenging than we thought. And then a lot of crevasses because between the mountains,
the ice breaks up, and you need to navigate those crevasses, those cracks in the ice.
So I think the first day was already a good wake up call. But from there, it was challenging,
but it was very rewarding once we got there. How cold was it? I was minus 40 plus wind chill,
minus 40 centigrade. It's about the same as minus 40 Fahrenheit.
Yeah, it's okay. It's actually usually, like I said, it's not too bad. But when you're in the
shadow of a mountain and there's a lot of wind, there is no sun that can actually warm the tent.
And then you really feel it. So it was cold. You said that you could manage it. How do you
manage it? This is day one. Yes. How do you manage day one on first camp? Yes. Well,
first of all, you have layers that you wear. You know how to build up the tent. And you have a
small stove so you can heat up the tent a little bit for a while until you can fall asleep. And
lucky we got a good night's sleep, which is also important to keep your body stable.
And the other thing is you have to eat the right food. You have to have enough calories
because your body has to deal with it. And we know what to do. You have many layers. So
suddenly you have three or four layers of gloves, smaller ones, thin ones and thicker ones and so
on and so forth that you might not need in other situations. But it worked. So it was okay.
Did you both wonder perhaps, what have we done here?
No, but we said, well, we need to dig deep here. Dig deep. We have to dig deep. Very deep.
How much of that preparation and getting ready for this and what you encountered when you arrived,
how much of that is physical versus mental? I think sometimes the mental part is actually
more important than the physical. The physical is kind of given anyway, because you have to train,
you have to pull your sled, you pull tires when, you know, in summer in the northern hemisphere
and so on. So you train your body, you make sure you can carry the weight, but you have to mentally
deal with it and stay calm. Very important. Yeah. What did you prepare for that ultimately did not
happen? We had, for example, we developed a system where we were going how to deal with the crevasses,
but we had lines where we said, if it's getting really bad, we have to kind of rope up like you
do in mountaineering and then walk slowly behind each other, roped to each other. So if one person
would unfortunately, you know, fall into a crevasse or break into a crevasse, the other person can
still hold this person up. So it's basically a team of two then. We actually came to the conclusion
that we don't need it at this point in time, although we had a lot of crevasses, because we
developed the system by skiing relatively close, not too close, but, you know, good enough. And one,
the front is checking the ground for crevasses and in the back, the person who's skiing in the
back looks out for them. So you have someone scouting the basically the ground right in front of you,
and the other person is scouting where to go and you basically communicate by yelling to the other
person left or right, they'll be careful here. And that has worked tremendously well. So we did not
use the rope, but we could have. If it would have gone worse than most probably would have used the
vopes. Was there anything that you encountered that was alarming beyond day one? There was a lot
of wind to the extent we didn't expect to wind speed. There was wind speed well above 25 meters
per second, I measured it. So it was in gusts were definitely over 100 kilometers per hour,
which is about 60 miles, something like that. Right, right. So that's,
I, we didn't expect that to happen a few times. And so sudden, usually the build that the wind
builds up over time, but it really hits us every once in a while. So, but it was okay. Yeah,
we know how to deal with it. Yeah, in the scale of the previous experience that you've had before,
where did this experience rank? Was it about the same as some other severe conditions you've been
in? Or was it worse or was it less? I think we had to draw from every single area of experience
that we had in the past. Yeah. So for us, we said afterwards it most probably was the best expedition
we ever had. Hands down, it was just amazing. The landscape is amazing. The weather was amazing
in all aspects. And we had to dig deep, draw from all the experiences, like I said, how to deal with
the crevasses, how to cross them, as well as also the low temperatures and the wind. A few times,
we felt like this is, this is going to be a test for this tent here, because it was really, really
windy. Because it's so windy. Right. Yes. Yeah. But it worked and we know how to build up the
tents and also how to protect the tent. So all that worked. And in the end, because we had that
experience, it was also very rewarding. It was quite motivating. So from our standpoint, for now,
it was the best thing we've ever done. Wow. After the break, I'll continue my conversation with
Explorer and former car executive Roland Krueger. To see more cars and culture interviews, visit
the Cars and Culture YouTube channel, subscribe, comment, check out hundreds of conversations
with the creators, collectors and culture makers who are driving the industry forward.
Welcome back to Cars and Culture here on SiriusXM. I'm your host, Jason Stein. Now the continuation of my
conversation with Explorer and former car executive Roland Krueger. To see more cars and culture
interviews, visit the Cars and Culture YouTube channel, subscribe, comment, check out hundreds
of conversations with the creators, collectors and culture makers who are driving this industry
forward. In a two-person expedition, trust is absolute. It's absolute. Does that have you
think differently? Does it force you to think differently about trust after you've finished
an expedition like this? It confirmed it. I don't think differently. It just confirmed how I think
about it. And if I may say this is also when you lead an organization or you lead a team,
this is built on trust. You need to pick the right people. You need to develop the team,
and the team has to work on trust. And if something goes wrong, you need to trust that
everybody helps together to fix it or the person that can fix it steps up and helps.
And the same was here. Some things sometimes don't work as well as others and you just work
together and get it done. Yeah, that level of trust is hard to replicate at scale, isn't it,
Roland? I personally think that is the most rewarding part of being a leader in an organization,
that you can build a team. If you put the proper team together, that can move mountains, literally
move mountains. And that's built on trust. And for me, that is the biggest motivation of leading
a team. And I had the privilege to be able to do that a few times in my life. And therefore,
it has confirmed, as I mentioned, my understanding of what trust can actually do.
So I want to get to more thematic parallels between business leadership and what you just
experienced. But I want to know what it felt like when you finally got to the Norwegian
research station after 18 days. Oh, so good. That moment must be crystallized in your mind.
Oh, of course. Yeah, it was good. Well, the first thing you do is you call for the pickup,
because they say, we're ready to go now. We're here. We made it. No, it's something that
you still have your, you know, we can still smile about it. It's just a great moment.
It's very fulfilling. It's very motivating. And like I said, it so far, it was the best thing
we've ever done. You never know if we do something different again, but it was very rewarding. And
that stays with you. That gives you also a certain confidence. Yeah, it's almost a moment to open a
vice beer or something like that at that stage, correct? Yeah, yeah. Well, we had a big bowl of
soup because it was cold. So now, to finish off a little bit on bringing the flag back,
and I know how much that is important to you, it must be the crystallization of an achievement of
your life and death decisions. You're operating at the highest level, you have experience,
you have adaptability, and now you get to bring this symbolic number 61 flag back.
What's your message going to be to those who you see in New York?
Well, there are a couple of things that are happening around this weekend. Very important is
there are what we call the young or new explorers that will be given a platform to present what
they're doing tomorrow. And on Saturday, which is very important. So the message is that you
can actually do this. And you follow your dreams. And hopefully with this, we can also inspire those
young explorers who have obviously different ambitions and do different things, which is
absolutely fine and great. And they do great things. So hopefully we can inspire them with what
we've done. We would like to share also some of our experience so others can draw from that very
technical experience. We talked about many different topics of how to prepare. Also,
maybe what kind of food, what nutrition, what diet you would need for such an experience or
such an expedition and so on. So we'd like to share that as well as also just say thank you.
And it was just great. Yeah, right, right. I'm sure one of the
mindsets that you'll share with the group of young explorers is how operating in an environment
like that changes the way you think about risk. Do you become more conservative or more decisive
after you've gone through what you've done? You become more, you become clear
how to deal with unforeseen situations, which some people call risk. And I would just say you need
to deal with things that just hit you, if I may say it, things that come your way that you didn't
expect. Don't let your overall target go. Don't lose sight of that. And that's very important.
If you've set out to achieve something even in the corporate world and you think this is the
right thing to do, don't let go. You might have to adapt on the way. You might have to
change your route slightly if I may use that comparison. But don't let go of those tasks
because you have set them out together with the team and you want to achieve it. So I think the
decisiveness on getting there is reconfirmed by doing an expedition or anything like that,
very much so. And related to that, I mean, there's a point in every organizational structure or even
in Antarctica where a plan breaks down for some reason. Something's changed. Something wasn't part
of the plan. When that happens, instinct, experience, trust again, takes over. And that's
what you're training for in the business life plus in the personal life, I'm guessing. Have you seen
leaders struggle with that kind of transition? What I've seen and what I've experienced in
those situations, no matter if it's in private or in the professional environment, is in addition
to what you said, you're absolutely right, communication is key. Let's be truly honest
if things happen that shouldn't have happened or things went wrong. This happens. But then be honest
about it. I always say be brutally honest about it and sit down and communicate about it. Because
every organization or also every team has a lot of competencies. So by sharing what happens or by
being very clear in your communication, you also have to ask the question, so what can we do about
it? And bring that competence of the team together and hopefully solve it or fix it or find a solution.
And that's very important. Solve the problem. You made decisions in Antarctica that were
literally life and death. I mean, it was one step here or one step there or making sure that you
were communicating effectively to make that happen. Does it change how you view pressure in a boardroom?
I think we already have developed this before this expedition. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to deal
with it so easily. But I would say pressure, if it's done in the right way, can bring out the best
of people. But it needs to be positive pressure. It needs to be something where you challenge
somebody or a team positively to achieve something special. I give you an example. In my latest
experience when I was leading Dyson, we have a saying, we solve problems that others ignore or tend to
ignore. We solve those problems. But you also have to encourage engineers to go the extra mile.
And James Dyson is a brilliant leader and a brilliant engineer that does this. He gives
opportunities to young engineers. But what I told him always is, show me your moon landing. I
literally said that. I was famous for saying, where's the eagle? I said, the eagle has landed.
Show me your moon landing. Show me what you can do, which is so special that we can make a difference.
And I think that's very, very important. There's pressure, but it needs to stay positive.
And people can do it. You can bring out the best of people by doing so.
You mentioned Dyson. So let's talk a little bit about your pathway. At Dyson,
you stepped into a very different kind of company. As you said, it embraces bold bets,
unconventional thinking. How did that experience maybe reshape how you think about
corporate culture and risk? Yeah. So first of all, as I mentioned,
Sir James Dyson is a brilliant engineer and an outstanding entrepreneur.
And what one can learn from him is that he gives opportunities and he expects people to
grab that opportunity and develop this for themselves as well as obviously for the company.
It's just outstanding, especially young engineers. He believes young engineers can really make a
difference and he works a lot with them. So what you can learn is that you maintain that
direct communication with the entire organization. You challenge in a positive way
and you allow also some things to be tested and maybe in some areas it doesn't work. So you go
back and redo it again to find a better solution. But in the end, it is about having the best product
and having the best solution for a problem that needs to be solved. And he's very adamant at
that. So I learned a lot from this, but everybody who works there should also be very thankful for
the opportunity he gives to people. And he does that proactively, very much so.
And Dyson, very different than your other major experiences. BMW, a company known for precision
and process, performance. Infinity, you were leading a global luxury brand at a time of major
change. The multitude of experiences have shaped who you are.
That's correct. Some would say that it's perhaps driven you to go cross Antarctica to some extent.
I was doing that already before during that time. But you're right. It has shaped a lot. And if you
have different experiences also from different industries, obviously it adds to the learning
that you have, your lifelong learning that you never stop, I believe. But when we were at
infinity, we had a tremendous great time. We were very successful. We had record sales globally
as well. It's also in the US. We had a very, very good team that led to this. And I think
back of this time as being very successful. And it was just great.
All the other things that I've done in the past, as you know, I'm actually originally,
I'm a designer. I also designed the car. I'm a designer of the interior of the first smart car.
There's a completely different thing. All these experiences, like I said,
they add to your lifelong learning. And I wouldn't miss them. It was really great.
What's your honest, unfiltered view of the auto industry today?
Yeah. Obviously, there are many, many opinions. And I would say this. I personally believe that
customers buy products, they don't buy processes. And I think we should focus on
good products and products that are in terms of technology, either technology agnostic or
companies should have the freedom to choose their technologies that they want to offer
to customers. And that is independent of which company. I think everybody should know what is
their core competence and focus on their competence and offer the best product they can give to the
customer. And then the market will decide. It's actually pretty straightforward. In times of
uncertainty, and sometimes we see times of uncertainty, to me, that becomes even more
important that you stick to what you're good at. You stick to your competence and develop a product
that is not only attractive, but also stands for something. That's what your brand represents.
That's what your organization represents. And that's how I see the current situation.
When you look at it objectively now, not being right in the middle of it directly,
do you think it's hard to be an automotive executive today? Is it harder, more challenging? I
mean, changing regulations, exterior forces? Yes, there's a lot of external changes, obviously.
There are also markets that are not working as well as other markets that when they used to work
well. I think it's a very interesting time. I think if it's external challenges or internal
challenges, this can bring the best out in organization if they concentrate on the right
things. It is actually an opportunity. And if that opportunity is embraced in the right way,
I think we can see a lot of good things coming out of the industry.
A lot of technical changes and a lot of legacy companies having to structurally adapt.
Where are the biggest leadership gaps today? Not specifically, but generally?
Well, like I said, I think I would not be in a position to comment on any company or any
specifics. But in principle, if you embrace a change as an opportunity,
some people say a crisis is an opportunity in itself, you can actually make a difference.
And if you lead an organization or be part of an organization, if you see it that way,
I believe there is a lot of opportunity coming out of it. Is it easy? Most probably not,
but it was never easy. So we need to embrace it.
I mean, you've been part of small organizations, larger organizations, established organizations.
Do organizations generally struggle with some of the things that we've just discussed,
which is maybe risk taking or trust or sticking to a plan?
Yeah, well, the larger the organization is, most probably also the more difficult is the
communication to the organization and that alignment that you need. So you have to make
sure that even in a large organization, you communicate broadly and to the wide audience,
if I may say that this way, because if it's not clear what the direction is,
or if the communication is misunderstood, then you obviously introduce inefficiencies in any
organization. And to avoid that, in addition to the examples that you mentioned, I think
communication is key to success to make sure that you don't lose sight of what you really
want to do and you bring everyone behind it. Smaller organizations, obviously, it's a bit
simpler or easier because of the size, but it's still something very, very important.
Personally, I had weekly meetings with staff in many, many of my leadership positions,
and I continued to do that, especially at Dyson. I had weekly meetings with
vast majority of people in the organization around the world,
just to make sure we communicate where we're going. And you have to reiterate and reiterate
that. That's very important. Yeah. Given what you've done, just in the
few minutes that we have left here, I want to ask you about perspective and context simplicity,
really. When you strip life down to survival with what you've just done, movement, weather,
decisions, things become clearer, don't they? Very clear. What becomes clearer
in all of that for you? Is it the small decisions that become clearer?
Well, first of all, you're right. Things become clearer, and I would go a little bit further. Even
in the preparation, you have to reduce things to what really is necessary, and you have to go
through it over and over again. So you only bring what is really necessary. You take that
and apply that to, let's say, professional life or real life situation. You focus on
what's really important, and you focus what's really relevant, and you also make sure that
other things which may not be as relevant, they don't fall by the wayside, but they might not
be tackled immediately. So that's quite important. What I call it is reduce everything to the max,
which means everything you have has to be maximized to the best use, the best material in an
expedition, the best equipment, the best quality, it shouldn't break and so on, but you have to
test it and you have to find a way to make sure that you have just what you need. And again,
the same applies of running an organization. You reduce to the max, and you make sure that you
build everything on trust and that you don't lose sight of your overall goal. And I think
that's a formula or recipe that really works. What do we overcomplicate in business?
I think from my viewpoint, the preparation part is important, and sometimes you jump into
certain things very, very fast, also because of certain requirements or pressure,
and the preparation builds the foundation. So if you have a well-prepared team that has a good
foundation, you can deal with unforeseen situations, as I mentioned, or with difficulties easier. So
if there's something that requires a change and so on and so forth, also ask yourself,
are we prepared for it? And if we're not, it's necessary, what can we do to get prepared as
fast as possible? Resilience. A lot of leaders talk about resilience. How do you think Roland,
your definition of resilience has changed after these experiences that you've had?
Is resilience about endurance or adaptability, and can it be taught?
It's more experienced than being taught, I think. You need to experience it. I would call it
perseverance and focus, but with the seemingly contradiction of still being flexible,
because you need to focus on your overall goal, but you also need to be flexible to adapt on
certain areas so you can get there. Because sometimes the path you've chosen might not work
the way you thought, and then you have to choose a different path, but don't lose sight of your
goals, as I mentioned. So yes, you can call it resilience. I call it perseverance. Just
persevere through it and get it done. Yeah, excellent lesson for any business leader.
When you return the flag at the dinner, what do you think that moment will mean to you?
I'll tell you afterwards, but it's quite exciting. It's actually emotional, to be honest.
I bet it is. Is it closure or is it continuation?
It's definitely not closing, but the finish of the expedition, definitely.
But at the same time, most probably, it's time to think about what else can you do,
maybe something else coming, or what else can you draw from it. I can share with you,
we've just finished actually yesterday night, a small film about this, about half an hour,
and I hope I can also use this for inspiring others to learn from it. So it's part of a journey,
I guess. But it's a very emotional point in time, I guess. I bet.
I'll tell you afterwards. Yeah. What's next for you?
On expeditions, like I said, this is the best we've done so far. It's hard to top,
but you never say never. So we don't know. Maybe there's something coming our way that
we would like to do. On the professional life, I sit on a few boards, which are also exciting
things to help companies with developing themselves or structuring themselves. So
I'm actually quite busy, if I may say at the moment.
When you think about legacy, not just professionally, but personally, what matters most to you now?
To achieve something that most probably was seemingly unattainable. I think that matters to
me a lot, that you can be yourself or with a team or in a team, you develop the ability to move a
mountain. Amazing. Congratulations on everything that you've achieved. You've done a beautiful job
of connecting the former world that where I knew you so well with the current world
and all the parallels. And as you said, the red line that runs through it,
it is an enormous accomplishment. I didn't know you were doing this before.
It's good to know, but you will triumphantly return the flag to the World Famous Explorers Club
at the 118th Explorers Club annual dinner in New York City in two nights from now.
Congratulations, and I wish you all the success in the next mountain that you will move.
Thank you very much, and it's great honor to talk to you and be part of your program.
I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for that.
Thank you, Roland. Great to be with you again.
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