Episode 419: 2025 BMW M2, 2025 Honda CR-V TrailSport

Hello and welcome to the Unnamed Automotive Podcast. My name is Sammy Hajahsad, and with me

as always is my good friend and fellow automotive journalist, Benjamin Hunting. Say hi to the

people, Ben. Greetings, fellow low-energy humans. Greetings to everyone, Ben. Not just low,

but also high. High energy. That's what we've got on today's podcast. Lots of

cool cars to talk about. Well, one cool car and plenty of others to compare it

to. And then another car that exists in the world that people are going to want to know

about. That's what we're going to do on today's podcast. But before we get to that, I'm going

to tell people all about my friend Benjamin Hunting, whose work can be found all over

the internet. Ben, plug some publications. Go for it.

Right now, I'm just going to plug my upcoming comic book, which is hitting Kickstarter

October 7th. You can go to modeluncomic.com and sign up for the Kickstarter. It really

helps if you hit it up early and just have, there's a little button that says like remind

me and it'll remind you when it goes live. That helps with the Kickstarter algorithm. I

will tell you what this book is about. It is set in the 90s. It involves a classroom

of kids who are involved in a model UN club in high school. And these aliens show up

on earth and mistake their club for the actual United Nations and try to negotiate

the fate of their planet. The alien leader is maybe a bit of a doofus and maybe

stubborn and refuses to admit that possibly they're wrong. And the whole story is it's

intended to be humorous, fun and like a look at, I had a pretty bad high school experience.

So I'm trying to make some lemon lemonade out of lemons here. It's I'm doing it in

a black and white manga style, which I've never done before. And I know that a bunch

of you have been in on my previous comic books, which I really appreciate. So if

you're curious about this one, modeluncomic.com and first week of October, it goes

Um, this doofus alien leader, he's not based on me. Is he?

He I mean, it's not based on physically it. You share similar hairstyles.

OK, OK. That's concerning.

Well, I had to, you know, they say that you should have told me.

They say you should write what you know. And you know my hairstyle.

I know your facial hair. So well, that's been the latest plug.

What would be more disturbing if the aliens were based

on your hairstyle or if the aliens had no faces?

More disturbing if they were based on my hairstyle. OK.

It was just an alien.

So basically, I have been feeling, you know, like one of a kind here

with my hairstyle and then just an entire species of of of species.

I think it's just the leader.

I don't think it's the entire species. Oh, OK.

So you're saying that there's a one to one facial hair

mirror out there in the galaxy.

I'm saying you're going to have to buy the book to find out.

I will. You can find my work at autotrader.ca and driving.ca.

Ben, I already spoiled what we're going to be.

The general gist of things we're going to be talking about

on this week's episode. What else is going on? Come on.

Tell me. What do you mean?

What else is going on?

You tell me what's going on in that in that world of yours.

Well, I drove a car.

Was it a good car?

Objectively, yes. OK, great.

Now we're off. Now we're off to a good start.

Is the 2025 BMW M2 and the version that I drove came with a six speed manual

for this particular year, the M2 comes with 473 horsepower,

which is pretty crazy, Sammy.

That feels like a lot.

Is that the most the M2 has ever had?

It is the most I do believe it's the most it's ever had.

I don't remember if like any of the competition or the CS models

in the past had more than that.

It feels like maybe they did.

I'm going to double check while you keep while you talk to me.

So the I'm trying to find the torque rating

because I can't remember it offhand.

I want to say it's either around four hundred

or it's like three sixty nine or three seventy or something like that.

The like I said, the car has the six speed manual.

You can also get an automatic transmission with this vehicle.

I've driven both in the past.

BMW is to be lauded for including a manual transmission option period.

There are not very many performance cars these days that come with that.

I mean, it seems to be if you have a very affordable performance car,

chances are you'll get a manual.

If you're looking in the luxury segment,

there's so much obsession with being able to boast about

straight line speed that automatics and dual clutches

and whatnot have become the standard equipment.

It's a little bit too bad in my opinion that that's what's important.

And I guess that some of these companies don't want to have,

you know, it's cheaper for them to just build one transmission

instead of having a manual that very few people are going to order.

But BMW does it and oh, sorry, it's it's I thought I had that torque number.

Did you find that? Did you find the number for torque?

I found the horsepower number for the for a CS and there is a five hundred

and twenty three horsepower version of the M2 CS. OK.

But it's it's you're just talking about transmissions.

This one will be automatic only. Yeah.

See, that's that's kind of so what's your deal?

What's your deal? Do you like autos?

Do you like manuals? BMW, make up your mind.

So the manual transmission, the BMW is fine.

It's perfectly acceptable. It's not great.

It's it doesn't really you don't feel super connected with it.

But that's OK. I'm just glad that it exists.

There are going to be a lot of people who are going to complain

about how it shifts because of that kind of vagueness.

I don't know if vagueness is the right word.

It just feels like you're one step removed from the process.

And the car that I was driving had the automatic rev matching feature activated.

I think BMW causes something like shift assist.

And that further takes you away from the.

Yeah, you don't like this.

I don't like it because it's unpredictable in its predictability.

It happens all the time.

Like, you don't always want to blip the throttle, right?

Like, it's only really necessary when you're trying to match speeds coming out

of a corner when you're downshifting.

You shouldn't really town shift to slow down.

It's not something that is necessary in most cars.

But when you if you were to downshift as you slow down

because you're not sure, for example, which gear you'll need to

like you're not sure if the light's going to turn red or green or whatever.

The car just keeps doing the rev matching at the time.

And if you shift into first gear, it will do the rev shot.

The red, all of the worst.

And it just blips it to like 5,000 or 6,000.

What's happening?

It's modest, but it's just unnecessary.

And like it really kind of it adds another layer of abstraction

onto the shifting process.

So OK, I was able to turn that off.

The BMW M2, like pretty much every M series car has two

M buttons on the steering wheel.

They'll let you program how you want the car to feel.

There's not quite as many options in the M2 as there are in the M5

that we talked about earlier in this year, which was absolutely

baffling in terms of how many choices you can make for setting up

the chassis and the drivetrain.

The most detail you get with the M2 is on traction control.

There's a whole granular system.

Yeah, I don't remember when Chevrolet had the Camaro one L.E.

Yeah, and you can get performance traction management, PTM.

And there were like five levels of PTM and that each of those levels

could be further modified as to your preference of how

and when you wanted traction control to intervene.

So the M2 has something similar where you can set it up to either

have the traction control go in M dynamic mode, which is what I

use most of the time.

And I never felt it engage when I was driving, which means

that it has pretty high limits or you can turn it off.

And then once you have it completely off, there's like

a further setting that opens up and you can there's a slider

that will let you determine how much traction assistance you want

to have while you're driving.

And then you can program that particular setting so that it

shows up when you push whatever button.

I. OK, in addition to the M buttons, there's also something

that's a bit confusing.

You can set up the car for road, sport or track in the drive

mode selection.

But hold on, isn't a track on the road?

I'm sorry, isn't track also road?

No, it's it's their version of touring.

Basically, I'm just kidding.

Yes. So there's there's essentially five different

drive modes you can have when you have it, when you click

road and track and and and sport and whatnot, it doesn't

necessarily change the predetermined settings either

that you're being displayed.

It's a bit confusing.

My complaint about how configurable BMW M cars have

been in recent years is the fact that it's not easy to

understand what you're doing and the effects of what

you're doing. Right.

So I would much rather have like three defined drive modes

that make very easy to determine changes, plus a custom

mode or in BMW's case, these two custom modes on the

steering wheel versus the kind of vague situation that

exists in the M2.

The M2 also has an active exhaust system in the sense

that you can choose to have like a louder sound, I

guess, or a quieter sound.

It's not clear which drive modes activate this automatically.

And when I would push the button, it doesn't always get

louder. Like in some circumstances, it seems pretty quiet.

And then suddenly it gets loud.

It's it's not necessarily consistent.

All of this to say, this is a lot of stuff that kind of

gets between you and driving the car.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, even with a manual transmission,

you know, you want a car, you want like a

performance car to be engaging.

That means you want to get in and drive the car and

enjoy yourself driving the car.

You want to feel like you're driving the car.

And when you have all this technology, all of these

things getting in the way, throttle blipping and

and all this, you know, like modes, I've always said

that I'd like a performance car to just be in the

performance mode setting from the get go.

Yeah, exactly.

And you should you should turn that off if you don't

want that. You have to turn it on.

And there shouldn't be like six of them.

Now, in some ways, the M2 is always on because the

suspension system, while it is adjustable, even it's

soft as even in its softest setting, it is quite

firm to the point where on bumpy roads, it will

move you around a little bit, like not in an

uncomfortable way. And one more time, say that again,

it'll what? It'll move you around a little bit.

Like the car is the car will bounce.

It doesn't bounce at high like you're going to

need to rely on those bolsters a bit.

Not so much.

It's just a little bit unsettling.

Like, okay, I'm using the wrong words here.

I'm really not at my best today.

I'm sorry. I apologize to listeners.

It's been it's been a rough week.

Okay.

Compared to some other performance cars, the

suspension is not as forgiving.

And that means that even when it's set to full

soft, you're going to know that you're in a

performance car.

Now, I was just complaining about the fact

that a performance car should always be a

performance car.

So I'm not going to complain about this, but I

am going to bring it up because people should

know that this is not a car that is really a

grand touring car in terms of its character.

It is intended to be a focused performance

machine.

And in fact, I think that you're going to get

the most out of an M2 compared to some other

cars at its price point in a track

environment where maybe you're on smoother

pavement for the most part and you don't

have to worry about frost heaves and that

kind of stuff.

But in a road setting, you'll pay for

that a little bit.

You'll have to deal with some bumpiness

that you wouldn't notice in other cars.

And the other thing that is surprising about

that is this is a very heavy vehicle.

It's 3,800 pounds.

That's the same weight as my Cadillac,

which is a four door sedan with a 5.7

liter V8.

So yeah, but I mean the size of these

cars, like, I mean, it's so ridiculous now

that like a performance coupe is now on

the same size, weight and I think almost

even like dimensionally closer to a

sports sedan from 20, from 20 years,

15, 20 years ago.

Well, I mean, it's not quite the size

of my Cadillac, but it is the same weight.

And that's because for this generation

of M2, it's an M3, M4 front subframe

and rear subframe on the same platform

that's been shortened wheelbase wise.

That shortened wheelbase is also modularity.

Holy, well, that shortened wheelbase is

also why you notice more of the bumps

because it's not necessarily as

directionally stable, which is a

bonus when you're trying to change

direction quickly on a racetrack.

But it's something that you'll pay for

in everyday driving.

It's extremely fast, like all the time.

No matter what gear you're in, there's

maybe a tiny bit of a pause while you

wait for the turbo action to happen.

And then it is on you with a vengeance.

I had a situation where I was playing

around with a Lotus Elise that had

appeared on a favorite back road of mine.

And I got to like the top of fourth

gear very quickly and I didn't realize

that while I was up beside this car

in a passing zone, and I had to shift

in the fifth gear to get by them.

And that's how quickly we were going.

And I was amazed by just how

effortless the acceleration was in the M2.

And I think that that's really become

the party trick for a lot of M cars,

just incredible power that's

accessible at really any speed.

It's something that for a heavier car,

it's a great calling card.

You're still looking at a zero to

sixty time of like 4.1 seconds

or something like that, which is

totally absurd. Pretty good for a manual.

Yeah. Well, I think the manual is

somewhat slower, but that's if you were

to get the automatic, I believe that

that's right around where it is.

But it's I'm giving you all these details

because the fact of the M2

is that it's always been kind

of a parts bin car in the sense that

the M2. Well, even the the predecessor

to the M2, which was the one M coupe

was totally like the the ultimate

parts bin car, right?

Like it's not it's not a bespoke motor.

It's not a bespoke platform.

It's a car that's been assembled

from other components.

And I'm not saying that that is

something that makes it lesser than,

but it does mean that it's

hard to understand the customer

for the M2 these days. Yeah.

If you're going to go to the track,

you would want something that's smaller,

but you would assume that that's

something that's smaller is lighter,

right? It's not all that light.

So what you sacrifice in the M2

versus, say, the M4 is interior

room and comfort for longer trips.

I don't know how much of a benefit

you get from going to the M2 versus

sticky with the M4 and and having

maybe a couple of extra pounds

to deal with.

It's it's an odd.

It's an odd value proposition.

If you were to go back to that,

that original one M and maybe

the first generation M2, which is

about which 400 pounds lighter.

Yeah.

And I think it's worth mentioning

these two cars, actually, we

really should talk about these two

cars, because I think one M.

Coop was like

a stroke of genius.

It was a very it was a very good car,

a very clever car, extremely

focused car.

One of those vehicles that retain,

if I remember correctly, retained

their resale value for a really

long time, because because there

were very few of them.

There's very few of them and

they were very good at what they

did.

The the the net the real

like M2 that came after

that, I'm going to be honest,

it's one of my favorite cars

I've ever driven.

It was fun to drive.

It was really engaging.

It was really compact.

I remember I can't remember if it

was the competition or if it was a

standard one, but they could also

have these really like exaggerated

fenders.

And it looked and felt

like a teeny little race car for

the road.

To know to this

generation one feels so much less

than the kind of like unhinged

versions that came before it.

It feels less special.

It feels like a very good car,

but it doesn't feel like a special

car. And that's a weird thing to say.

And I think that part of that is the

dimensional increase.

The the the look of the car

is now it's controversial.

Not everyone likes the combination

of like blocky block blocky box

flares and a blocky bumper

and that kind of thing compared

to the sleeker look that it had

before.

And the weight is obviously

an issue for some people,

for people who want to take it

to a racetrack.

So it's like, again,

the difference between an M2 and an M4

is maybe paper thin now and the

benefits of an M4 are much more

clear.

And that makes it hard to

I'm not saying I wouldn't recommend

this car because I do think it's cool.

Mine had an amazing great break

green paint job.

And it's extremely quick to drive.

And, you know, I'm happy that

BMW makes it.

And I'm never going to say

from that perspective, I don't have

anything negative to say about the car.

This is these are vehicles that I wish

we had more of.

But I found it hard

to make a spiritual or personal

connection with the car. It was like

it was like I was getting into a

very fast vehicle that was extremely

competent and well designed and well

built and very

well tuned to the task at hand.

But emotionally,

spiritually, it wasn't

I guess it wasn't something I could

have a communion with.

And I realize I'm getting like kind of

weird woo woo and lovey-dovey

and strange in terms

of the way I'm speaking about a

vehicle. But there's some vehicles

where you can develop like a mechanical

sympathy that you're just very excited

about with this car.

It was just it was more about respect,

I think, than passion.

Yeah.

It's very strange to me respect.

That's a that's a difficult that's

a difficult way for me to say for

me to that's difficult point

for me to to reconcile

with because to me, the earlier

models felt like they were just

kind of like cobbled together

by some really performance hunting

like in like real enthusiasts.

I don't know. That sounds really rude

to say.

And this model feels so much more.

Like calculated like, you know that

now there's this whole like

ecosystem for BMW M cars.

It comes like this M version, then

the M to then then the competition

will come then the CS will come.

And you've got like this whole

like lineup that's going to come.

So to me, that was less

apparent with the one M coupe.

It was less apparent with the with

the first gen M to

and now it just feels like this

like we're playing this game again.

And now BMW has kind of figured out

exactly where and what the

the M to is they think it's a mini

M for and I don't think that's the

truth. I don't think that's what

it was to begin with.

I think it was a it was not

a mini M for it was a hyped

up two series, right?

Like a hyper two series.

And and and BMW doesn't really make

many small cars anymore.

Right.

There's yeah.

And there's a really gnarly like two

series grand coupe.

I don't really think that's a great

car. There's a there's a there's a

Z four that exists only

because, you know, Toyota was like,

hey, well, we'll pay you to make

this car.

There's a two series that you just

mentioned and then there's the M

two.

It's like everything else that's

small is in the SUV

segment. So that's kind of a

different story.

So I I don't have too much more to

say about this car, which is kind of

strange when you think about it.

I was really strange.

I was really looking forward to

driving it.

I wasn't disappointed by it.

I do think it has its place in

the market.

It is quite expensive in Canada.

It starts at eighty two thousand

dollars and I believe in the U.S.

It's around sixty eight.

That's a lot of money to me,

man.

Let me double check. Yeah, it's

sixty eight thousand, which based

on the the M two forty is fifty

three.

There's a lot of gap there.

Now, I will say the M two forty is

really good to drive to is actually

quite nice.

I mean, maybe that's not an M

two, but maybe that's what you

want.

You know, there's also a two thirty.

I believe the four cylinder car.

You that's pretty quick.

I mean, it does sixty and like

five point three seconds and that

starts in the forty thousands.

So it this

is.

I don't know.

Would you spend seventy thousand

dollars on this car?

Absolutely not. No, I mean, you

would rather stick with the M two

forty.

I think so, for sure, actually,

because if I'm not if I'm spending

that much money, I really want

something that is really

defined in its in its

care in certain characteristics.

I need it to feel less

like a a tech

test bed in terms of like

features and equipment.

I wanted to feel more engaging.

I wanted to be really

enjoyable to drive in all, you

know, available drive modes.

I wanted to be capable,

especially in this class, I want to

be capable on the track and on

the on the back roads,

which does sound pretty capable.

But if it's got a performance,

you know, if it's got a luxury

brand, I want something that's a

little bit more versatile so it

can be comfortable as well or

spacious or cargo.

They can hold a lot of cargo.

So for me, when you're when

you're reaching that seventy to

eighty thousand dollar mark,

you're reaching the world of

like special like specialization

in certain in certain ways.

And it seems like this M2

just does not specialize

enough for me to make it

really exciting.

When you talk about specialization,

an interesting parallel is the Ford

Mustang GT dark horse,

which in Canada is also an eighty

thousand dollar car.

Five hundred horsepower,

lots of track stuff is it is

essentially aimed at the same

customer, someone who wants to

head to attract.

There's no reason to buy a dark

horse for the street.

You can get almost all of the

gear that is important on it in a

GT, what you're really getting

with the dark horse is like

track specific stuff.

So do you think that something

like say a Mustang GT

dark horse is more

interesting at that price point

or is it just crazy to pay

eighty thousand dollars in

Canada for a Mustang?

Can both of those traits be

true? You know what I mean?

Like, I think that it is more

interesting because it's got

all this, you know,

specialization that we just

mentioned.

It's ready to go on the track

immediately.

It's got, you know, style and

personality.

It's got all the it goes above and

beyond the Mustang GT.

You know what I mean?

So at least that means my money

went somewhere so that when

somebody sees me in a Mustang,

they know that it's a special

Mustang, not just, oh, he could

have gotten an M4 for, you know,

when they see me in an M2, right?

So there's that bit.

But the element of it being

eighty grand or seventy grand is

that hurts my heart.

Like, to me, I remember

Mustang GTs used to be in the

thirty to forty thousand dollar

range. Well, I mean, GT is still

that that price.

I'm talking about the dark horse

specifically, which is much more

expensive.

That's a lot more in the U.S.

The dark horse starts at sixty

four thousand, which again is

the same price as an M2, like

within within four grand.

I mean, we're looking at it

relatively, I guess.

And I would say, yeah, I think

that that is a really valid

vehicle to cross shot.

All right, let's move on to

your vehicle this week.

And do we really have to?

Yes.

I mean, we don't otherwise.

This is the shortest podcast in

the history of our podcast.

No, we did one.

I did an episode of the podcast

where I said we're not going to

be having an episode this week

one time.

No, this week I've got my hands

on a twenty twenty six Honda

CRV, which

is a hybrid with the trim,

the trail sport trim.

So it's known specifically as I

did not know the sport hybrid.

I did not know there was a

trail sport trim.

Can you get the trail sport on a

non hybrid?

No, you cannot.

So you could only get a hybrid

trail sport.

That is correct.

What does it give you?

Hilarious, man, come on.

What does it give me?

This is a he gives me tires.

Yes.

It gives me some badges.

OK.

Limited slip electrons.

Pardon?

Limited slip electrons.

Kind of.

I don't know if this

this all wheel drive system is

from what I read, the all wheel

drive system in the twenty twenty

six model of the CRV

has been tuned up

across the line, not just for

the trail sport model.

So as far as I understand,

this can now do fifty fifty

front to rear power delivery

and the brake vectoring

is a little bit more.

It's a little bit more sharper.

I don't know what that's not for

trail sport, right?

That's just across the board.

I think those two elements might

be specific because

it's got a

no, actually, as far as

I understand, this is not

specific to the trail.

The trail.

So you're just getting tires.

Yeah, you're getting these

continental cross contact ATR

tires, which will impact

your hybrid fuel mileage.

Yeah.

You'll get

you'll get some trail sport

logos. There's no leather seating.

It's this.

How do you describe it like a cloth

seating with amber or orange

lighting everywhere?

And they've kind of got like orange

piping in there.

They've got lots of

lots of

just.

Trail sport badges.

That's it. So this is kind of

weird because there's a new

passport trail sport, which

was going to be testing that next

week. So that was redesigned

for this year. And it actually

came with a fair amount of off-road

gear from what I understand.

Yeah. So it seems like they're

just kicking the the trail sport

in name only can down the road

to the C.R.V.

Which is the next in line price

wise.

Is this just like, are they hoping

there's a reflected halo image

from the pilot and the passport

trail sports that's going to make

people move to the C.R.V.

Yeah. So I think that's 100

percent what they're doing. So

that not only did the not

only did the passport, I think

the passport.

Did the passport debut the

trail sport? Yeah, it did.

It did. And then the trail

sport badge showed up on the

ridgeline and the sorry.

I think that the pilot debuted

the passport. The pilot.

Yes, I think you're right.

The pilot actual stuff with it

too. It wasn't just a package.

But then when it came to the

passport at first, it was

just cosmetic for the most part.

Now for the passport was

relatively, you know,

capable.

But it was it was it was just

a smaller pilot, right?

They could have done it right the

first time they chose not to.

We got a second or a next

generation passport trail sport

that has like new suspensions,

kid plates, all sorts of stuff

like that.

And not everything that the

pilot got.

Yeah. And none of that's come to

the C.R.V. No, not a single

thing. Just altering tires.

I'm going to add again, not a

single thing has come to the

trail sport. Did you change to

me? Did you expect then

a height like a ground

clearance? I expected like at

least fake skid plates.

Nope.

Tell me more about what you

expected. I expected

an interior that was different.

I mean, I'm seeing the like you

mentioned it has orange piping,

but that's pretty much it.

Yeah. A cloth interior.

A cloth interior for a car that

cost thirty eight thousand

dollars in the US

and fifty grand in Canada.

It's all wheel drive only

unlike other versions of the

hybrid as far as I understand.

This is a this is

ineffective as a

as a, you know, off road

oriented or adventure oriented

version of the C.R.V.

And I think it's really important

to talk about this because we said

this before all of the automakers

are bringing in these off road

cosplaying trims of

their to their compact

crossover segment, which is not

known for being off road oriented.

Right. Let's be clear.

But we originally

said when we saw the

wilderness trim come to the

the outback in the cross track

that there are a group

of dedicated individuals who

would modify their crossover

like the outback or the cross

track.

And now the automaker

is delivering that same

experience with warranty

backed equipment or a similar

experience.

And even those ones came with

a slight because of bigger

tires, they came with more

ground clearance and different,

you know, the thing for

Subaru, too, was the CVTs

were different internally, which

is something that you're not

going to do if you're an

individual who's modifying

their vehicle.

I even think they had cooling

too, which

which helps when you're going

off off roading or putting

extra stress on these vehicles.

They have different ratios, too.

So like those vehicles felt

like legitimate off roaders.

But when you look at

some of the other T.R.D.,

this T.R.D. off road, I

think some some of them just

have

knobby tires or all terrain

tires.

And what are the other models

that come with some of these

off road oriented trims?

I'm trying to remember now XRT,

I think from Tucson,

XRT from Tucson, X Line

and X Pro over there at Takiya.

I think maybe Trailhawk, if

that's still a thing, over with

the Compass.

I don't know if there's a

trailhead.

There was never a Trailhawk

Compass.

I think it was just sure.

It was just Cherokee and

Grand Cherokee.

I think there might have been

a Renegade.

But again, don't quote me on

that.

Does the Renegade still exist?

There's definitely a Trailhawk

version of the of the Compass.

You sure?

I'm looking at it, at least in

Canada.

All right.

Trailhawk and Trailhawk Elite.

Oh, wow.

Let me double check in the US.

And those ones, I mean, I

think Jeep takes, you know,

off roading pretty seriously

if they're going to trail

rate a vehicle.

They're going to they're

going to do it.

They're going to do it right.

So what this leaves me with is

all of these.

All of these other models that

just do not have what it takes

and are just saying we can

we're comparable to those

things. Yeah, there's a Trailhawk

in the US as well.

OK.

And.

It's just not it's not right.

Like it just isn't right.

You expect, like you said,

you expected ground clearance.

You expected maybe a skid plate.

You expected, I don't know,

let's say like roof rack or

like a cross a crossbar for

the roof rack.

You expected an interior

that can be hosed out or something.

Well, I mean, hose.

I don't know.

Something, right?

Drive modes.

There's none of that in this.

And it drives.

Look, I'm going to be clear.

It drives really well for a

for a CR because it's a CRV.

And the CRV, especially the

hybrid drives really slick.

I mean, I'm getting six

point five liters per 100

kilometers, which is it's

almost like a cosplay trim.

But it doesn't even go that far

because visually it's not all

that different from any other CRV.

No, you get.

I think it comes with this

exclusive exterior paint,

which is kind of green

and that's combined with some

blacked out tidbits,

like the wheels and the grill.

This actually does come.

I'm sorry.

I should be clear.

This comes with a crossbar.

I was being really harsh on it.

It does come with a cross.

But that's it.

Well, I mean, let me go back.

It's hard to get excited

about a car that has no features.

It's what I mean.

You could get and this isn't even

like my main issue with the

with the CRV hybrid when it showed

up was that it was too expensive.

You were only getting the

hybrids on some of the top trim

levels of the vehicle.

But they've since introduced

a sport hybrid, which starts

at thirty three thousand,

which is.

Comes with front wheel drive

compared to compared to the

trails or sorry.

Sport hybrid starts at thirty

five thousand, which is just

three thousand dollars less than

the trail sport.

And I would recommend you getting

that because you're getting

pretty much all the same stuff

without all the gimmicky

nonsense that you're getting as

well, get better feel mileage

because you won't have to deal

with those all terrain tires.

Yeah.

And I'm not getting really,

really good fuel economy.

As I mentioned, I'm getting

about thirty six to thirty seven

miles per gallon, which isn't.

It's not huge.

You're these things are rated

for thirty five combined.

So I guess it's better than

whatever it was rated for.

But, you know, I'm expecting

more the the RAV four

hybrids get excellent fuel

efficiency, and that's the

thing that's going to be

compared about compared to

every single time.

And Toyota also made a TRD

version of the RAV four TRD

off road version.

And from what I remember, I

drove when it's been a long

time ago, been a long time

on four or five years, but it

did have more off road

equipment.

OK, I believe it had a terrain

dial dial dialer dialer

road actual off road equipment

because the CRV does not.

It has tires.

And it's yeah, I don't know if

tires qualify as equipment.

OK, it's I don't know.

I mean, I don't know what that

means. I don't know what you

mean by that.

Well, because you could go into

you could put this on any CRV.

You could go in anywhere and

grab the same set of altering

tires and make your own trail

sport, right?

But if there's actual equipment

like we were talking about

earlier, there's things about

vehicles that are harder for

people to individually modify.

Then I think that that kind

of gives the trim level

more value.

And I believe that the TRD version

of the RAV4, which again, CRV is

super late to the game, right?

With this with this vehicle.

And it makes me wonder, too, I

don't see it as being a problem

for Subaru because of their how

their whole identity for most

of their vehicles has been

oriented towards gravel roads

and whatnot in that imagery.

But how much longer is this

trend going to play out?

And if you relate to this

trend, is it just going to

kind of look silly in a few

years?

Which I think it is looking

silly. I think this is really

unimpressive.

And I think Honda should have

should accentuate what they're

good at with this vehicle, which

is the CRV is known for being

comfortable, was known for

being fuel efficient and really

spacious.

So how do you take those

elements of being really

practical to the next level?

What can you what can you do?

I don't know. I think you

could just make it cheaper.

The more people will buy it

if it's cheaper. Sure.

Yeah. But they have the HRV

for that. So it's not going

to happen.

No, stop telling people to get

an HRV, Ben.

I'm not saying they should, but

I'm saying it is there.

So there's no additional

features. There's no, you know,

what is it that makes the this

thing?

And is it because, like you

said, that somebody looked at

the trail sport version of the

of the what's it called

the passport and the

pilot and the ridgeline and said

I wish I could have that.

But my lifestyle just does not

facilitate those vehicles.

Or you want something smaller

with with a hybrid drivetrain?

You know, I don't think you can

get a hybrid passport.

Can you?

No.

So that's probably a pilot.

That's probably the big selling

point, right? It's like, oh, well,

we have it's like

the meme of, well, there's the

trail sport and the trail sport

we have at home.

Right. Yeah. This is now the

trail sport that we have at home.

So I'm not

it's hard not to be cynical

about this type of branding.

Honda has proven that they can

make a trail sport that's actually

different and engaging and

interesting and then chosen

not to do it across the board.

That makes me uninterested

in a Sierra V trail sport.

I think that's I think that's

the bottom line for me.

It's like, if you can do it,

but you choose not to, no,

thank you.

So that's the major issue

here, right? Like all together

is is is it worth it?

Just for the these

tires, these blacked out rims,

the crossbars, the amber

bits and bobs here.

It's not. I don't think it is.

I think, you know, the Sierra

V is a known

successful product.

It is, like I said,

efficient, spacious,

known to be reliable.

And there's not much more

you need to do to that, right?

It's an excellent selling

product and they didn't need

to add this bit to it.

I don't know if the trail

sport would be more successful

if it's also available as

a non hybrid product.

I don't think so.

I mean, again, at that point,

it's like, why are you even buying

it? Right?

Because like at least with a hybrid,

OK, that's interesting.

I can't get that on any other trail

sport.

But if it's if it doesn't have

that exclusivity and has

nothing else to recommend it,

then you're really kind of grasping

at straws as to it must be

hard for Honda salesmen

Honda salespeople to push this

vehicle.

Like I don't know what you latch

on to to push

people or steer people towards that

trim versus other trims.

That's true.

That's important.

I want to just say there's seven

trim levels of this car.

This is just one of them.

Does that include?

Are you splitting that across

hybrids or is it like seven trim

levels for the hybrid?

And no, that's both including

hybrid and non hybrid.

OK.

And there's got to be a bajillion

more.

Yeah, look at how many trim levels

there are of the of the RAV4

hybrid and plug-in hybrid as well.

Yeah, I mean, they have that the

Prime version or they don't call

it that anymore, but that does add

an extra dimension that Honda

has not been able to catch.

Toyota doesn't even offer a

TRD off-road version anymore.

They offer something called the

hybrid woodland edition.

So woodland is just

it's kind of just the tires.

It's the same thing.

It's a looks package.

It's a little weird because

they were these bronze tires.

It's got a crossbar.

They were offering it at the

same time as the TRD off-road

back in the day.

OK.

But.

Oh, there's a package.

Nope, not getting that.

That's interesting.

And by interesting, I mean, not.

It is not very interesting at all.

They need to not these

automakers need to like go in

with this all wheel drive stuff.

I mean, this after off-road stuff

or all terrain stuff, they need

to give you more confidence

in inclement road conditions

or weather.

And these vehicles are already

fairly capable in like the snow

or, you know, gravel.

What do you need to really make

them worth it for the next the next

step up? I think Subaru has

set the standard for the with

the wilderness trim.

I think Jeep has set the standard

with the Trailhawk trim.

Trailhawk are very expensive.

I will add that.

But they're made to be like

winched around, right?

Is they're made to get stuck.

Is the Compass Trailhawk trail rated?

I believe so.

OK, let me double check.

Because I know not all Jeeps

are these days, so.

OK, let me get let me get you

here.

Let me take a look.

Because you love this.

The Cherokee is the trail rated.

The Cherokee is gone and there's a

new Cherokee and I don't know

anything about its trim levels.

I'm talking about the company.

I don't know if there's a new

Cherokee. Yeah, there's a new

Cherokee.

It looks very much like a grand

Cherokee.

Twenty six Cherokee.

But OK.

So let me double check

here.

There's two.

There's a trailhawk and trailhawk

elite version of the

of the Compass.

And I believe it is trail rated.

All right. It has a little logo on

it. Anything.

Anything else you want to say

about the CRV before we wrap

things up?

Pretty good car.

It just doesn't feel as it just

doesn't feel as special in any

way or form.

But I know that this class is

not known for delivering special

feeling products.

This car is way too expensive

in the in Canada.

When when fully equipped as this

trail sport hybrid model, it is

fifty thousand dollars, almost

fifty one thousand dollars.

That's a lot of money.

I find that a lot like too

much to spend on a compact

crossover.

And I think that Honda needs

to get it sort out.

It's pricing.

Do you know what I mean? This

is.

They've been pushing their

pricing way too way too much.

And I don't know why people are

accepting of this pricing

and whether or not it's just

because they're financing

everything and they don't really

see the all in price.

It's just over the top.

I can't.

I can't recommend it for that

price at all.

So yeah, that's it.

I want to apologize for my

seeming lack of focus on the

show. I kind of feel like what

I feel like I've let people

down with just I'm just like

I said, it's been a rough week.

It's important for me to do

these episodes and to get them

out there.

And I felt weird about the M

2 and I maybe I wasn't super

good at putting

putting that into words.

But next week, we're going to

be taking a week off because

Sammy is going to Scotland.

If you can believe that to drive

the Audi Q3, a vehicle I

haven't thought about in a long

time. I don't see a lot of them

out there. If there's a new one

coming and he's going to tell

us all about that next

week, obviously not next week,

but the week after when he gets

back, he's going to tell us

about the Q3 and I'm going

to talk about another Audi.

The SQ6 e-tron.

I believe I have that right,

which is an EV version of their

SUV, kind of in the mid

rear mid tier range of performance

that I've been driving around.

If you want to, you know,

send me an email that says

Benjamin, you really need to pick

up the slack.

You can do so at our

website, unnamedautomotivepodcast.com.

There's a contact form.

You fill it out, hit submit, and

it ends up in our inbox.

You can find us both on

Instagram. I'm at Hunting

Benjamin Sammies at Sammy

underscore ha, like you're

laughing, or you can email us the

old fashioned way.

Benjamin at Benjamin hunting

dot com.

Thank you everyone for listening

and don't forget to check out

Ben's upcoming book.

Yeah, model you and comic dot

com model you and comic dot

com. Thanks everyone.

We'll talk to you next, not next

week, the week after that.

Bye. Bye.

Episode 419: 2025 BMW M2, 2025 Honda CR-V TrailSport

BMW M2

BMW M5

Chevrolet Camaro

Bmw M

BMW M3

Lotus Elise

Ford Mustang GTD

Honda Crv

Passport Trail Sport

Subaru Outback

Jeep Grand Cherokee

Jeep Renegade

Toyota RAV4

Audi Q3

Audi Etron

About this episode

Original notes