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Episode 419: 2025 BMW M2, 2025 Honda CR-V TrailSport
Episode 419: 2025 BMW M2, 2025 Honda CR-V TrailSport
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About this episode
The episode dives into the 2025 BMW M2, highlighting its 473 horsepower and the inclusion of a manual transmission, a rarity in luxury performance cars today. The hosts discuss the car's performance, adjustable drive modes, and the challenges of navigating its complex technology. They also critique the 2025 Honda CR-V TrailSport, which offers minimal off-road enhancements and lacks significant features compared to competitors. The discussion touches on the evolving market for performance and crossover vehicles, emphasizing the need for genuine off-road capabilities in such trims.
Topics:
2025 bmw m2
manual transmissions
performance cars
2025 honda cr-v trailsport
off-road capabilities
drive modes
vehicle pricing
hybrid vehicles
Cars:
Audi e-tron
Audi Q3
BMW M2
BMW M3
BMW M5
BMW M Coupe (E36)
Chevrolet Camaro
Ford Mustang GTD
Honda CR-V
Honda Passport
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Jeep Renegade
Lotus Elise
Subaru Outback
Toyota RAV4
This week the Unnamed Automotive Podcast is so revved up it's putting Benjamin to sleep! Even while Benjamin does tons of PR for his upcoming book (www.modeluncomic.com) he has time to review a car for us. He jumps into the pilots seat of the 2025 BMW M2, which has been totally redesigned on a new platform and feels very close to its M3/M4 cousins. While boasting plenty of power, and a manual gearbox, Benjamin wonders if there's something missing in the M2's typically exciting sauce.
Then Sami climbs into the 2026 Honda CR-V TrailSport Hybrid, and comes away unimpressed. Yet another off-roading cosplaying trim arrives on the street with minimal real upgrades to capability and it sends out hosts into disassociation mode. What does Honda think its doing? Listen to find out!
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
BMW M2
"...f. Now we're off to a good start. Is the 2025 BMW M2 and the version that I drove came with a six spee..."
Car
BMW M5
"...ite as many options in the M2 as there are in the M5 that we talked about earlier in this year, which ..."
Car
Chevrolet Camaro
"...em. Yeah, I don't remember when Chevrolet had the Camaro one L.E. Yeah, and you can get performance tracti..."
Car
Bmw M
"...it confusing. My complaint about how configurable BMW M cars have been in recent years is the fact that i..."
Car
BMW M3
"...that's because for this generation of M2, it's an M3, M4 front subframe and rear subframe on the same ..."
Car
Lotus Elise
"...situation where I was playing around with a Lotus Elise that had appeared on a favorite back road of mine..."
Car
Ford Mustang GTD
"an interesting parallel is the Ford Mustang GT dark horse, which in Canada is also an eighty"
Car
Passport Trail Sport
"weird because there's a new passport trail sport, which was going to be testing that next"
Car
Toyota RAV4
"And I believe that the TRD version of the RAV4, which again, CRV is super late to the game, righ..."
Car
Audi Q3
"If you can believe that to drive the Audi Q3, a vehicle I haven't thought about in a long"
Select text to request an explanation
Hello and welcome to the Unnamed Automotive Podcast. My name is Sammy Hajahsad, and with me
as always is my good friend and fellow automotive journalist, Benjamin Hunting. Say hi to the
people, Ben. Greetings, fellow low-energy humans. Greetings to everyone, Ben. Not just low,
but also high. High energy. That's what we've got on today's podcast. Lots of
cool cars to talk about. Well, one cool car and plenty of others to compare it
to. And then another car that exists in the world that people are going to want to know
about. That's what we're going to do on today's podcast. But before we get to that, I'm going
to tell people all about my friend Benjamin Hunting, whose work can be found all over
the internet. Ben, plug some publications. Go for it.
Right now, I'm just going to plug my upcoming comic book, which is hitting Kickstarter
October 7th. You can go to modeluncomic.com and sign up for the Kickstarter. It really
helps if you hit it up early and just have, there's a little button that says like remind
me and it'll remind you when it goes live. That helps with the Kickstarter algorithm. I
will tell you what this book is about. It is set in the 90s. It involves a classroom
of kids who are involved in a model UN club in high school. And these aliens show up
on earth and mistake their club for the actual United Nations and try to negotiate
the fate of their planet. The alien leader is maybe a bit of a doofus and maybe
stubborn and refuses to admit that possibly they're wrong. And the whole story is it's
intended to be humorous, fun and like a look at, I had a pretty bad high school experience.
So I'm trying to make some lemon lemonade out of lemons here. It's I'm doing it in
a black and white manga style, which I've never done before. And I know that a bunch
of you have been in on my previous comic books, which I really appreciate. So if
you're curious about this one, modeluncomic.com and first week of October, it goes
Um, this doofus alien leader, he's not based on me. Is he?
He I mean, it's not based on physically it. You share similar hairstyles.
OK, OK. That's concerning.
Well, I had to, you know, they say that you should have told me.
They say you should write what you know. And you know my hairstyle.
I know your facial hair. So well, that's been the latest plug.
What would be more disturbing if the aliens were based
on your hairstyle or if the aliens had no faces?
More disturbing if they were based on my hairstyle. OK.
It was just an alien.
So basically, I have been feeling, you know, like one of a kind here
with my hairstyle and then just an entire species of of of species.
I think it's just the leader.
I don't think it's the entire species. Oh, OK.
So you're saying that there's a one to one facial hair
mirror out there in the galaxy.
I'm saying you're going to have to buy the book to find out.
I will. You can find my work at autotrader.ca and driving.ca.
Ben, I already spoiled what we're going to be.
The general gist of things we're going to be talking about
on this week's episode. What else is going on? Come on.
Tell me. What do you mean?
What else is going on?
You tell me what's going on in that in that world of yours.
Well, I drove a car.
Was it a good car?
Objectively, yes. OK, great.
Now we're off. Now we're off to a good start.
Is the 2025 BMW M2 and the version that I drove came with a six speed manual
for this particular year, the M2 comes with 473 horsepower,
which is pretty crazy, Sammy.
That feels like a lot.
Is that the most the M2 has ever had?
It is the most I do believe it's the most it's ever had.
I don't remember if like any of the competition or the CS models
in the past had more than that.
It feels like maybe they did.
I'm going to double check while you keep while you talk to me.
So the I'm trying to find the torque rating
because I can't remember it offhand.
I want to say it's either around four hundred
or it's like three sixty nine or three seventy or something like that.
The like I said, the car has the six speed manual.
You can also get an automatic transmission with this vehicle.
I've driven both in the past.
BMW is to be lauded for including a manual transmission option period.
There are not very many performance cars these days that come with that.
I mean, it seems to be if you have a very affordable performance car,
chances are you'll get a manual.
If you're looking in the luxury segment,
there's so much obsession with being able to boast about
straight line speed that automatics and dual clutches
and whatnot have become the standard equipment.
It's a little bit too bad in my opinion that that's what's important.
And I guess that some of these companies don't want to have,
you know, it's cheaper for them to just build one transmission
instead of having a manual that very few people are going to order.
But BMW does it and oh, sorry, it's it's I thought I had that torque number.
Did you find that? Did you find the number for torque?
I found the horsepower number for the for a CS and there is a five hundred
and twenty three horsepower version of the M2 CS. OK.
But it's it's you're just talking about transmissions.
This one will be automatic only. Yeah.
See, that's that's kind of so what's your deal?
What's your deal? Do you like autos?
Do you like manuals? BMW, make up your mind.
So the manual transmission, the BMW is fine.
It's perfectly acceptable. It's not great.
It's it doesn't really you don't feel super connected with it.
But that's OK. I'm just glad that it exists.
There are going to be a lot of people who are going to complain
about how it shifts because of that kind of vagueness.
I don't know if vagueness is the right word.
It just feels like you're one step removed from the process.
And the car that I was driving had the automatic rev matching feature activated.
I think BMW causes something like shift assist.
And that further takes you away from the.
Yeah, you don't like this.
I don't like it because it's unpredictable in its predictability.
It happens all the time.
Like, you don't always want to blip the throttle, right?
Like, it's only really necessary when you're trying to match speeds coming out
of a corner when you're downshifting.
You shouldn't really town shift to slow down.
It's not something that is necessary in most cars.
But when you if you were to downshift as you slow down
because you're not sure, for example, which gear you'll need to
like you're not sure if the light's going to turn red or green or whatever.
The car just keeps doing the rev matching at the time.
And if you shift into first gear, it will do the rev shot.
The red, all of the worst.
And it just blips it to like 5,000 or 6,000.
What's happening?
It's modest, but it's just unnecessary.
And like it really kind of it adds another layer of abstraction
onto the shifting process.
So OK, I was able to turn that off.
The BMW M2, like pretty much every M series car has two
M buttons on the steering wheel.
They'll let you program how you want the car to feel.
There's not quite as many options in the M2 as there are in the M5
that we talked about earlier in this year, which was absolutely
baffling in terms of how many choices you can make for setting up
the chassis and the drivetrain.
The most detail you get with the M2 is on traction control.
There's a whole granular system.
Yeah, I don't remember when Chevrolet had the Camaro one L.E.
Yeah, and you can get performance traction management, PTM.
And there were like five levels of PTM and that each of those levels
could be further modified as to your preference of how
and when you wanted traction control to intervene.
So the M2 has something similar where you can set it up to either
have the traction control go in M dynamic mode, which is what I
use most of the time.
And I never felt it engage when I was driving, which means
that it has pretty high limits or you can turn it off.
And then once you have it completely off, there's like
a further setting that opens up and you can there's a slider
that will let you determine how much traction assistance you want
to have while you're driving.
And then you can program that particular setting so that it
shows up when you push whatever button.
I. OK, in addition to the M buttons, there's also something
that's a bit confusing.
You can set up the car for road, sport or track in the drive
mode selection.
But hold on, isn't a track on the road?
I'm sorry, isn't track also road?
No, it's it's their version of touring.
Basically, I'm just kidding.
Yes. So there's there's essentially five different
drive modes you can have when you have it, when you click
road and track and and and sport and whatnot, it doesn't
necessarily change the predetermined settings either
that you're being displayed.
It's a bit confusing.
My complaint about how configurable BMW M cars have
been in recent years is the fact that it's not easy to
understand what you're doing and the effects of what
you're doing. Right.
So I would much rather have like three defined drive modes
that make very easy to determine changes, plus a custom
mode or in BMW's case, these two custom modes on the
steering wheel versus the kind of vague situation that
exists in the M2.
The M2 also has an active exhaust system in the sense
that you can choose to have like a louder sound, I
guess, or a quieter sound.
It's not clear which drive modes activate this automatically.
And when I would push the button, it doesn't always get
louder. Like in some circumstances, it seems pretty quiet.
And then suddenly it gets loud.
It's it's not necessarily consistent.
All of this to say, this is a lot of stuff that kind of
gets between you and driving the car.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, even with a manual transmission,
you know, you want a car, you want like a
performance car to be engaging.
That means you want to get in and drive the car and
enjoy yourself driving the car.
You want to feel like you're driving the car.
And when you have all this technology, all of these
things getting in the way, throttle blipping and
and all this, you know, like modes, I've always said
that I'd like a performance car to just be in the
performance mode setting from the get go.
Yeah, exactly.
And you should you should turn that off if you don't
want that. You have to turn it on.
And there shouldn't be like six of them.
Now, in some ways, the M2 is always on because the
suspension system, while it is adjustable, even it's
soft as even in its softest setting, it is quite
firm to the point where on bumpy roads, it will
move you around a little bit, like not in an
uncomfortable way. And one more time, say that again,
it'll what? It'll move you around a little bit.
Like the car is the car will bounce.
It doesn't bounce at high like you're going to
need to rely on those bolsters a bit.
Not so much.
It's just a little bit unsettling.
Like, okay, I'm using the wrong words here.
I'm really not at my best today.
I'm sorry. I apologize to listeners.
It's been it's been a rough week.
Okay.
Compared to some other performance cars, the
suspension is not as forgiving.
And that means that even when it's set to full
soft, you're going to know that you're in a
performance car.
Now, I was just complaining about the fact
that a performance car should always be a
performance car.
So I'm not going to complain about this, but I
am going to bring it up because people should
know that this is not a car that is really a
grand touring car in terms of its character.
It is intended to be a focused performance
machine.
And in fact, I think that you're going to get
the most out of an M2 compared to some other
cars at its price point in a track
environment where maybe you're on smoother
pavement for the most part and you don't
have to worry about frost heaves and that
kind of stuff.
But in a road setting, you'll pay for
that a little bit.
You'll have to deal with some bumpiness
that you wouldn't notice in other cars.
And the other thing that is surprising about
that is this is a very heavy vehicle.
It's 3,800 pounds.
That's the same weight as my Cadillac,
which is a four door sedan with a 5.7
liter V8.
So yeah, but I mean the size of these
cars, like, I mean, it's so ridiculous now
that like a performance coupe is now on
the same size, weight and I think almost
even like dimensionally closer to a
sports sedan from 20, from 20 years,
15, 20 years ago.
Well, I mean, it's not quite the size
of my Cadillac, but it is the same weight.
And that's because for this generation
of M2, it's an M3, M4 front subframe
and rear subframe on the same platform
that's been shortened wheelbase wise.
That shortened wheelbase is also modularity.
Holy, well, that shortened wheelbase is
also why you notice more of the bumps
because it's not necessarily as
directionally stable, which is a
bonus when you're trying to change
direction quickly on a racetrack.
But it's something that you'll pay for
in everyday driving.
It's extremely fast, like all the time.
No matter what gear you're in, there's
maybe a tiny bit of a pause while you
wait for the turbo action to happen.
And then it is on you with a vengeance.
I had a situation where I was playing
around with a Lotus Elise that had
appeared on a favorite back road of mine.
And I got to like the top of fourth
gear very quickly and I didn't realize
that while I was up beside this car
in a passing zone, and I had to shift
in the fifth gear to get by them.
And that's how quickly we were going.
And I was amazed by just how
effortless the acceleration was in the M2.
And I think that that's really become
the party trick for a lot of M cars,
just incredible power that's
accessible at really any speed.
It's something that for a heavier car,
it's a great calling card.
You're still looking at a zero to
sixty time of like 4.1 seconds
or something like that, which is
totally absurd. Pretty good for a manual.
Yeah. Well, I think the manual is
somewhat slower, but that's if you were
to get the automatic, I believe that
that's right around where it is.
But it's I'm giving you all these details
because the fact of the M2
is that it's always been kind
of a parts bin car in the sense that
the M2. Well, even the the predecessor
to the M2, which was the one M coupe
was totally like the the ultimate
parts bin car, right?
Like it's not it's not a bespoke motor.
It's not a bespoke platform.
It's a car that's been assembled
from other components.
And I'm not saying that that is
something that makes it lesser than,
but it does mean that it's
hard to understand the customer
for the M2 these days. Yeah.
If you're going to go to the track,
you would want something that's smaller,
but you would assume that that's
something that's smaller is lighter,
right? It's not all that light.
So what you sacrifice in the M2
versus, say, the M4 is interior
room and comfort for longer trips.
I don't know how much of a benefit
you get from going to the M2 versus
sticky with the M4 and and having
maybe a couple of extra pounds
to deal with.
It's it's an odd.
It's an odd value proposition.
If you were to go back to that,
that original one M and maybe
the first generation M2, which is
about which 400 pounds lighter.
Yeah.
And I think it's worth mentioning
these two cars, actually, we
really should talk about these two
cars, because I think one M.
Coop was like
a stroke of genius.
It was a very it was a very good car,
a very clever car, extremely
focused car.
One of those vehicles that retain,
if I remember correctly, retained
their resale value for a really
long time, because because there
were very few of them.
There's very few of them and
they were very good at what they
did.
The the the net the real
like M2 that came after
that, I'm going to be honest,
it's one of my favorite cars
I've ever driven.
It was fun to drive.
It was really engaging.
It was really compact.
I remember I can't remember if it
was the competition or if it was a
standard one, but they could also
have these really like exaggerated
fenders.
And it looked and felt
like a teeny little race car for
the road.
To know to this
generation one feels so much less
than the kind of like unhinged
versions that came before it.
It feels less special.
It feels like a very good car,
but it doesn't feel like a special
car. And that's a weird thing to say.
And I think that part of that is the
dimensional increase.
The the the look of the car
is now it's controversial.
Not everyone likes the combination
of like blocky block blocky box
flares and a blocky bumper
and that kind of thing compared
to the sleeker look that it had
before.
And the weight is obviously
an issue for some people,
for people who want to take it
to a racetrack.
So it's like, again,
the difference between an M2 and an M4
is maybe paper thin now and the
benefits of an M4 are much more
clear.
And that makes it hard to
I'm not saying I wouldn't recommend
this car because I do think it's cool.
Mine had an amazing great break
green paint job.
And it's extremely quick to drive.
And, you know, I'm happy that
BMW makes it.
And I'm never going to say
from that perspective, I don't have
anything negative to say about the car.
This is these are vehicles that I wish
we had more of.
But I found it hard
to make a spiritual or personal
connection with the car. It was like
it was like I was getting into a
very fast vehicle that was extremely
competent and well designed and well
built and very
well tuned to the task at hand.
But emotionally,
spiritually, it wasn't
I guess it wasn't something I could
have a communion with.
And I realize I'm getting like kind of
weird woo woo and lovey-dovey
and strange in terms
of the way I'm speaking about a
vehicle. But there's some vehicles
where you can develop like a mechanical
sympathy that you're just very excited
about with this car.
It was just it was more about respect,
I think, than passion.
Yeah.
It's very strange to me respect.
That's a that's a difficult that's
a difficult way for me to say for
me to that's difficult point
for me to to reconcile
with because to me, the earlier
models felt like they were just
kind of like cobbled together
by some really performance hunting
like in like real enthusiasts.
I don't know. That sounds really rude
to say.
And this model feels so much more.
Like calculated like, you know that
now there's this whole like
ecosystem for BMW M cars.
It comes like this M version, then
the M to then then the competition
will come then the CS will come.
And you've got like this whole
like lineup that's going to come.
So to me, that was less
apparent with the one M coupe.
It was less apparent with the with
the first gen M to
and now it just feels like this
like we're playing this game again.
And now BMW has kind of figured out
exactly where and what the
the M to is they think it's a mini
M for and I don't think that's the
truth. I don't think that's what
it was to begin with.
I think it was a it was not
a mini M for it was a hyped
up two series, right?
Like a hyper two series.
And and and BMW doesn't really make
many small cars anymore.
Right.
There's yeah.
And there's a really gnarly like two
series grand coupe.
I don't really think that's a great
car. There's a there's a there's a
Z four that exists only
because, you know, Toyota was like,
hey, well, we'll pay you to make
this car.
There's a two series that you just
mentioned and then there's the M
two.
It's like everything else that's
small is in the SUV
segment. So that's kind of a
different story.
So I I don't have too much more to
say about this car, which is kind of
strange when you think about it.
I was really strange.
I was really looking forward to
driving it.
I wasn't disappointed by it.
I do think it has its place in
the market.
It is quite expensive in Canada.
It starts at eighty two thousand
dollars and I believe in the U.S.
It's around sixty eight.
That's a lot of money to me,
man.
Let me double check. Yeah, it's
sixty eight thousand, which based
on the the M two forty is fifty
three.
There's a lot of gap there.
Now, I will say the M two forty is
really good to drive to is actually
quite nice.
I mean, maybe that's not an M
two, but maybe that's what you
want.
You know, there's also a two thirty.
I believe the four cylinder car.
You that's pretty quick.
I mean, it does sixty and like
five point three seconds and that
starts in the forty thousands.
So it this
is.
I don't know.
Would you spend seventy thousand
dollars on this car?
Absolutely not. No, I mean, you
would rather stick with the M two
forty.
I think so, for sure, actually,
because if I'm not if I'm spending
that much money, I really want
something that is really
defined in its in its
care in certain characteristics.
I need it to feel less
like a a tech
test bed in terms of like
features and equipment.
I wanted to feel more engaging.
I wanted to be really
enjoyable to drive in all, you
know, available drive modes.
I wanted to be capable,
especially in this class, I want to
be capable on the track and on
the on the back roads,
which does sound pretty capable.
But if it's got a performance,
you know, if it's got a luxury
brand, I want something that's a
little bit more versatile so it
can be comfortable as well or
spacious or cargo.
They can hold a lot of cargo.
So for me, when you're when
you're reaching that seventy to
eighty thousand dollar mark,
you're reaching the world of
like special like specialization
in certain in certain ways.
And it seems like this M2
just does not specialize
enough for me to make it
really exciting.
When you talk about specialization,
an interesting parallel is the Ford
Mustang GT dark horse,
which in Canada is also an eighty
thousand dollar car.
Five hundred horsepower,
lots of track stuff is it is
essentially aimed at the same
customer, someone who wants to
head to attract.
There's no reason to buy a dark
horse for the street.
You can get almost all of the
gear that is important on it in a
GT, what you're really getting
with the dark horse is like
track specific stuff.
So do you think that something
like say a Mustang GT
dark horse is more
interesting at that price point
or is it just crazy to pay
eighty thousand dollars in
Canada for a Mustang?
Can both of those traits be
true? You know what I mean?
Like, I think that it is more
interesting because it's got
all this, you know,
specialization that we just
mentioned.
It's ready to go on the track
immediately.
It's got, you know, style and
personality.
It's got all the it goes above and
beyond the Mustang GT.
You know what I mean?
So at least that means my money
went somewhere so that when
somebody sees me in a Mustang,
they know that it's a special
Mustang, not just, oh, he could
have gotten an M4 for, you know,
when they see me in an M2, right?
So there's that bit.
But the element of it being
eighty grand or seventy grand is
that hurts my heart.
Like, to me, I remember
Mustang GTs used to be in the
thirty to forty thousand dollar
range. Well, I mean, GT is still
that that price.
I'm talking about the dark horse
specifically, which is much more
expensive.
That's a lot more in the U.S.
The dark horse starts at sixty
four thousand, which again is
the same price as an M2, like
within within four grand.
I mean, we're looking at it
relatively, I guess.
And I would say, yeah, I think
that that is a really valid
vehicle to cross shot.
All right, let's move on to
your vehicle this week.
And do we really have to?
Yes.
I mean, we don't otherwise.
This is the shortest podcast in
the history of our podcast.
No, we did one.
I did an episode of the podcast
where I said we're not going to
be having an episode this week
one time.
No, this week I've got my hands
on a twenty twenty six Honda
CRV, which
is a hybrid with the trim,
the trail sport trim.
So it's known specifically as I
did not know the sport hybrid.
I did not know there was a
trail sport trim.
Can you get the trail sport on a
non hybrid?
No, you cannot.
So you could only get a hybrid
trail sport.
That is correct.
What does it give you?
Hilarious, man, come on.
What does it give me?
This is a he gives me tires.
Yes.
It gives me some badges.
OK.
Limited slip electrons.
Pardon?
Limited slip electrons.
Kind of.
I don't know if this
this all wheel drive system is
from what I read, the all wheel
drive system in the twenty twenty
six model of the CRV
has been tuned up
across the line, not just for
the trail sport model.
So as far as I understand,
this can now do fifty fifty
front to rear power delivery
and the brake vectoring
is a little bit more.
It's a little bit more sharper.
I don't know what that's not for
trail sport, right?
That's just across the board.
I think those two elements might
be specific because
it's got a
no, actually, as far as
I understand, this is not
specific to the trail.
The trail.
So you're just getting tires.
Yeah, you're getting these
continental cross contact ATR
tires, which will impact
your hybrid fuel mileage.
Yeah.
You'll get
you'll get some trail sport
logos. There's no leather seating.
It's this.
How do you describe it like a cloth
seating with amber or orange
lighting everywhere?
And they've kind of got like orange
piping in there.
They've got lots of
lots of
just.
Trail sport badges.
That's it. So this is kind of
weird because there's a new
passport trail sport, which
was going to be testing that next
week. So that was redesigned
for this year. And it actually
came with a fair amount of off-road
gear from what I understand.
Yeah. So it seems like they're
just kicking the the trail sport
in name only can down the road
to the C.R.V.
Which is the next in line price
wise.
Is this just like, are they hoping
there's a reflected halo image
from the pilot and the passport
trail sports that's going to make
people move to the C.R.V.
Yeah. So I think that's 100
percent what they're doing. So
that not only did the not
only did the passport, I think
the passport.
Did the passport debut the
trail sport? Yeah, it did.
It did. And then the trail
sport badge showed up on the
ridgeline and the sorry.
I think that the pilot debuted
the passport. The pilot.
Yes, I think you're right.
The pilot actual stuff with it
too. It wasn't just a package.
But then when it came to the
passport at first, it was
just cosmetic for the most part.
Now for the passport was
relatively, you know,
capable.
But it was it was it was just
a smaller pilot, right?
They could have done it right the
first time they chose not to.
We got a second or a next
generation passport trail sport
that has like new suspensions,
kid plates, all sorts of stuff
like that.
And not everything that the
pilot got.
Yeah. And none of that's come to
the C.R.V. No, not a single
thing. Just altering tires.
I'm going to add again, not a
single thing has come to the
trail sport. Did you change to
me? Did you expect then
a height like a ground
clearance? I expected like at
least fake skid plates.
Nope.
Tell me more about what you
expected. I expected
an interior that was different.
I mean, I'm seeing the like you
mentioned it has orange piping,
but that's pretty much it.
Yeah. A cloth interior.
A cloth interior for a car that
cost thirty eight thousand
dollars in the US
and fifty grand in Canada.
It's all wheel drive only
unlike other versions of the
hybrid as far as I understand.
This is a this is
ineffective as a
as a, you know, off road
oriented or adventure oriented
version of the C.R.V.
And I think it's really important
to talk about this because we said
this before all of the automakers
are bringing in these off road
cosplaying trims of
their to their compact
crossover segment, which is not
known for being off road oriented.
Right. Let's be clear.
But we originally
said when we saw the
wilderness trim come to the
the outback in the cross track
that there are a group
of dedicated individuals who
would modify their crossover
like the outback or the cross
track.
And now the automaker
is delivering that same
experience with warranty
backed equipment or a similar
experience.
And even those ones came with
a slight because of bigger
tires, they came with more
ground clearance and different,
you know, the thing for
Subaru, too, was the CVTs
were different internally, which
is something that you're not
going to do if you're an
individual who's modifying
their vehicle.
I even think they had cooling
too, which
which helps when you're going
off off roading or putting
extra stress on these vehicles.
They have different ratios, too.
So like those vehicles felt
like legitimate off roaders.
But when you look at
some of the other T.R.D.,
this T.R.D. off road, I
think some some of them just
have
knobby tires or all terrain
tires.
And what are the other models
that come with some of these
off road oriented trims?
I'm trying to remember now XRT,
I think from Tucson,
XRT from Tucson, X Line
and X Pro over there at Takiya.
I think maybe Trailhawk, if
that's still a thing, over with
the Compass.
I don't know if there's a
trailhead.
There was never a Trailhawk
Compass.
I think it was just sure.
It was just Cherokee and
Grand Cherokee.
I think there might have been
a Renegade.
But again, don't quote me on
that.
Does the Renegade still exist?
There's definitely a Trailhawk
version of the of the Compass.
You sure?
I'm looking at it, at least in
Canada.
All right.
Trailhawk and Trailhawk Elite.
Oh, wow.
Let me double check in the US.
And those ones, I mean, I
think Jeep takes, you know,
off roading pretty seriously
if they're going to trail
rate a vehicle.
They're going to they're
going to do it.
They're going to do it right.
So what this leaves me with is
all of these.
All of these other models that
just do not have what it takes
and are just saying we can
we're comparable to those
things. Yeah, there's a Trailhawk
in the US as well.
OK.
And.
It's just not it's not right.
Like it just isn't right.
You expect, like you said,
you expected ground clearance.
You expected maybe a skid plate.
You expected, I don't know,
let's say like roof rack or
like a cross a crossbar for
the roof rack.
You expected an interior
that can be hosed out or something.
Well, I mean, hose.
I don't know.
Something, right?
Drive modes.
There's none of that in this.
And it drives.
Look, I'm going to be clear.
It drives really well for a
for a CR because it's a CRV.
And the CRV, especially the
hybrid drives really slick.
I mean, I'm getting six
point five liters per 100
kilometers, which is it's
almost like a cosplay trim.
But it doesn't even go that far
because visually it's not all
that different from any other CRV.
No, you get.
I think it comes with this
exclusive exterior paint,
which is kind of green
and that's combined with some
blacked out tidbits,
like the wheels and the grill.
This actually does come.
I'm sorry.
I should be clear.
This comes with a crossbar.
I was being really harsh on it.
It does come with a cross.
But that's it.
Well, I mean, let me go back.
It's hard to get excited
about a car that has no features.
It's what I mean.
You could get and this isn't even
like my main issue with the
with the CRV hybrid when it showed
up was that it was too expensive.
You were only getting the
hybrids on some of the top trim
levels of the vehicle.
But they've since introduced
a sport hybrid, which starts
at thirty three thousand,
which is.
Comes with front wheel drive
compared to compared to the
trails or sorry.
Sport hybrid starts at thirty
five thousand, which is just
three thousand dollars less than
the trail sport.
And I would recommend you getting
that because you're getting
pretty much all the same stuff
without all the gimmicky
nonsense that you're getting as
well, get better feel mileage
because you won't have to deal
with those all terrain tires.
Yeah.
And I'm not getting really,
really good fuel economy.
As I mentioned, I'm getting
about thirty six to thirty seven
miles per gallon, which isn't.
It's not huge.
You're these things are rated
for thirty five combined.
So I guess it's better than
whatever it was rated for.
But, you know, I'm expecting
more the the RAV four
hybrids get excellent fuel
efficiency, and that's the
thing that's going to be
compared about compared to
every single time.
And Toyota also made a TRD
version of the RAV four TRD
off road version.
And from what I remember, I
drove when it's been a long
time ago, been a long time
on four or five years, but it
did have more off road
equipment.
OK, I believe it had a terrain
dial dial dialer dialer
road actual off road equipment
because the CRV does not.
It has tires.
And it's yeah, I don't know if
tires qualify as equipment.
OK, it's I don't know.
I mean, I don't know what that
means. I don't know what you
mean by that.
Well, because you could go into
you could put this on any CRV.
You could go in anywhere and
grab the same set of altering
tires and make your own trail
sport, right?
But if there's actual equipment
like we were talking about
earlier, there's things about
vehicles that are harder for
people to individually modify.
Then I think that that kind
of gives the trim level
more value.
And I believe that the TRD version
of the RAV4, which again, CRV is
super late to the game, right?
With this with this vehicle.
And it makes me wonder, too, I
don't see it as being a problem
for Subaru because of their how
their whole identity for most
of their vehicles has been
oriented towards gravel roads
and whatnot in that imagery.
But how much longer is this
trend going to play out?
And if you relate to this
trend, is it just going to
kind of look silly in a few
years?
Which I think it is looking
silly. I think this is really
unimpressive.
And I think Honda should have
should accentuate what they're
good at with this vehicle, which
is the CRV is known for being
comfortable, was known for
being fuel efficient and really
spacious.
So how do you take those
elements of being really
practical to the next level?
What can you what can you do?
I don't know. I think you
could just make it cheaper.
The more people will buy it
if it's cheaper. Sure.
Yeah. But they have the HRV
for that. So it's not going
to happen.
No, stop telling people to get
an HRV, Ben.
I'm not saying they should, but
I'm saying it is there.
So there's no additional
features. There's no, you know,
what is it that makes the this
thing?
And is it because, like you
said, that somebody looked at
the trail sport version of the
of the what's it called
the passport and the
pilot and the ridgeline and said
I wish I could have that.
But my lifestyle just does not
facilitate those vehicles.
Or you want something smaller
with with a hybrid drivetrain?
You know, I don't think you can
get a hybrid passport.
Can you?
No.
So that's probably a pilot.
That's probably the big selling
point, right? It's like, oh, well,
we have it's like
the meme of, well, there's the
trail sport and the trail sport
we have at home.
Right. Yeah. This is now the
trail sport that we have at home.
So I'm not
it's hard not to be cynical
about this type of branding.
Honda has proven that they can
make a trail sport that's actually
different and engaging and
interesting and then chosen
not to do it across the board.
That makes me uninterested
in a Sierra V trail sport.
I think that's I think that's
the bottom line for me.
It's like, if you can do it,
but you choose not to, no,
thank you.
So that's the major issue
here, right? Like all together
is is is it worth it?
Just for the these
tires, these blacked out rims,
the crossbars, the amber
bits and bobs here.
It's not. I don't think it is.
I think, you know, the Sierra
V is a known
successful product.
It is, like I said,
efficient, spacious,
known to be reliable.
And there's not much more
you need to do to that, right?
It's an excellent selling
product and they didn't need
to add this bit to it.
I don't know if the trail
sport would be more successful
if it's also available as
a non hybrid product.
I don't think so.
I mean, again, at that point,
it's like, why are you even buying
it? Right?
Because like at least with a hybrid,
OK, that's interesting.
I can't get that on any other trail
sport.
But if it's if it doesn't have
that exclusivity and has
nothing else to recommend it,
then you're really kind of grasping
at straws as to it must be
hard for Honda salesmen
Honda salespeople to push this
vehicle.
Like I don't know what you latch
on to to push
people or steer people towards that
trim versus other trims.
That's true.
That's important.
I want to just say there's seven
trim levels of this car.
This is just one of them.
Does that include?
Are you splitting that across
hybrids or is it like seven trim
levels for the hybrid?
And no, that's both including
hybrid and non hybrid.
OK.
And there's got to be a bajillion
more.
Yeah, look at how many trim levels
there are of the of the RAV4
hybrid and plug-in hybrid as well.
Yeah, I mean, they have that the
Prime version or they don't call
it that anymore, but that does add
an extra dimension that Honda
has not been able to catch.
Toyota doesn't even offer a
TRD off-road version anymore.
They offer something called the
hybrid woodland edition.
So woodland is just
it's kind of just the tires.
It's the same thing.
It's a looks package.
It's a little weird because
they were these bronze tires.
It's got a crossbar.
They were offering it at the
same time as the TRD off-road
back in the day.
OK.
But.
Oh, there's a package.
Nope, not getting that.
That's interesting.
And by interesting, I mean, not.
It is not very interesting at all.
They need to not these
automakers need to like go in
with this all wheel drive stuff.
I mean, this after off-road stuff
or all terrain stuff, they need
to give you more confidence
in inclement road conditions
or weather.
And these vehicles are already
fairly capable in like the snow
or, you know, gravel.
What do you need to really make
them worth it for the next the next
step up? I think Subaru has
set the standard for the with
the wilderness trim.
I think Jeep has set the standard
with the Trailhawk trim.
Trailhawk are very expensive.
I will add that.
But they're made to be like
winched around, right?
Is they're made to get stuck.
Is the Compass Trailhawk trail rated?
I believe so.
OK, let me double check.
Because I know not all Jeeps
are these days, so.
OK, let me get let me get you
here.
Let me take a look.
Because you love this.
The Cherokee is the trail rated.
The Cherokee is gone and there's a
new Cherokee and I don't know
anything about its trim levels.
I'm talking about the company.
I don't know if there's a new
Cherokee. Yeah, there's a new
Cherokee.
It looks very much like a grand
Cherokee.
Twenty six Cherokee.
But OK.
So let me double check
here.
There's two.
There's a trailhawk and trailhawk
elite version of the
of the Compass.
And I believe it is trail rated.
All right. It has a little logo on
it. Anything.
Anything else you want to say
about the CRV before we wrap
things up?
Pretty good car.
It just doesn't feel as it just
doesn't feel as special in any
way or form.
But I know that this class is
not known for delivering special
feeling products.
This car is way too expensive
in the in Canada.
When when fully equipped as this
trail sport hybrid model, it is
fifty thousand dollars, almost
fifty one thousand dollars.
That's a lot of money.
I find that a lot like too
much to spend on a compact
crossover.
And I think that Honda needs
to get it sort out.
It's pricing.
Do you know what I mean? This
is.
They've been pushing their
pricing way too way too much.
And I don't know why people are
accepting of this pricing
and whether or not it's just
because they're financing
everything and they don't really
see the all in price.
It's just over the top.
I can't.
I can't recommend it for that
price at all.
So yeah, that's it.
I want to apologize for my
seeming lack of focus on the
show. I kind of feel like what
I feel like I've let people
down with just I'm just like
I said, it's been a rough week.
It's important for me to do
these episodes and to get them
out there.
And I felt weird about the M
2 and I maybe I wasn't super
good at putting
putting that into words.
But next week, we're going to
be taking a week off because
Sammy is going to Scotland.
If you can believe that to drive
the Audi Q3, a vehicle I
haven't thought about in a long
time. I don't see a lot of them
out there. If there's a new one
coming and he's going to tell
us all about that next
week, obviously not next week,
but the week after when he gets
back, he's going to tell us
about the Q3 and I'm going
to talk about another Audi.
The SQ6 e-tron.
I believe I have that right,
which is an EV version of their
SUV, kind of in the mid
rear mid tier range of performance
that I've been driving around.
If you want to, you know,
send me an email that says
Benjamin, you really need to pick
up the slack.
You can do so at our
website, unnamedautomotivepodcast.com.
There's a contact form.
You fill it out, hit submit, and
it ends up in our inbox.
You can find us both on
Instagram. I'm at Hunting
Benjamin Sammies at Sammy
underscore ha, like you're
laughing, or you can email us the
old fashioned way.
Benjamin at Benjamin hunting
dot com.
Thank you everyone for listening
and don't forget to check out
Ben's upcoming book.
Yeah, model you and comic dot
com model you and comic dot
com. Thanks everyone.
We'll talk to you next, not next
week, the week after that.
Bye. Bye.
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