European Classics Under $10,000 —Why Do We Gravitate Towards Project Cars?

and grit podcast. I'm your host, Victor Troyer. Who do we have today on our jam-packed episode?

We got Dylan here back for another episode. Dan?

Dan!

Okay, Willie Dan.

Willie Dan. We got just Romy Rome here.

What's up, Rome? Welcome back, Dan, as well.

Thank you.

Rome last was on, I think, yeah, after you. Yeah, that was the episode on M3s, right?

So, welcome you all back. Today's episode, I want to talk about

European cars, sub $10,000 that are classics worth buying, right? And then we can also segue

into project cars. Fair, because most European cars under $10,000 turn into project cars.

But you have a little bit of a list.

Yeah.

Okay, we'll get into it. I have a list as well from Motor Trend, actually.

So, Motor Trend helped us out today. I have five cars under $10,000, European cars,

and I'll describe them, and then you guys guess which one it is.

Deal.

So, we'll get into that in a second. But let's start and kick things off with

what's new around the shop. What's going on? What do you guys got going on?

Last, was it last weekend? Yeah, we had a Cartober Fest, which was cool.

Speaking of European cars, a bunch of German cars came through. That was awesome. We had the

little Volkswagen 8-valve, 16-valve crew, which was sweet. We had a bunch of vintage BMWs,

Rome's, DTM style. Cosworth was there. We had a DTM style, E30, which was really cool,

a couple Porsches. So, yeah, it was super fun. We had beers, grilling up a lot of brats, and

playing a couple beer games. The brats? Who was cooking the brats? Was that Jayce?

That was Nick. Jesse from Family Tacos. They came down and cooked some German brats, but put

the Mexican style on it. Oh, wow. Yeah, they're doing the TJ dogs. They were like fusion.

So, it was like TJ bacon wrapped German bratwurst. That sounds good. They were so good. I ate three

of them. Yeah, it sucked. We wanted to go, obviously, at Radwood, so conflicted,

but I'm sure it's not going to always conflict every year. But you'll do Cartober Fest pretty

much every October Fest. Yeah, hopefully sooner. We want to probably be closer to September for

the next one. What else? What about some updates? So, yeah, you mentioned Rome. We all know Rome's.

I've posted the DTM livery, Cosworth. I did see actually one on Marketplace. I think the guy was

asking 18. It was like a, did you see that one? It's a 2.316. It's an automatic, though. Oh,

it's an automatic. That's right. It was an automatic. Yeah, and I was thinking like,

damn, that's actually not bad. That's not bad. If you do the squaws, you know, it's going to

raise the value of the car. What are the swap costs? The transmission's like 1500. It comes with

its own TCM or TCM, but you need those things, then it should be good. Mine was originally

automatic also. Oh, they did the swap on it. I hear like the flywheel, some of them are like

one year only. If you get the, depends on the year, but you got to like source a flywheel a lot of

the time, and then you have to get a driveshaft made. So those are kind of the only two things

mentally that would be a hurdle, but any off-road shop, like driveshaft shop, they can whip those

pretty reliably and easily. And that's a swap that's going to add value to the car.

For sure. The money's well worth it. It might even add more to what you put into it.

That chassis is so good, like you want to be able to drive that car hard, like with a manual.

Right. Yeah. I think seeing, like we talked about this once, seeing a manual Mercedes alone

to us as Americans is odd, you know, like you have to go back to like, I know the C-Class did

them back in like the 2012, might have been the last year, 2013, but like those were, you know,

rare, but like- And they didn't drive great. Like pretty sloppy. Yeah. Cause it was like an entry

level Mercedes still at the time, you know, it wasn't really, it was like an economy, you know

how economy cars have manuals, the C-Class had the manual, not because it was like the C63,

it was just because it was, you know, cheaper option, you know, in an entry level model.

But like to see yours with the manual is definitely like, like head turning.

Yeah. I appreciate it, man. It's been a fun car. I mean, it has its gremlins that I'm finding out now.

Oh, gremlins. Yeah. Like the window issue, which we fixed. And then with the back window,

it completely stopped working now. The AC fans stopped working, AC stopped working.

That's not good for you, bro. Yeah, exactly. The last time I was on here,

I was bragging about the AC, you know, having nothing in there. I needed to place the spark

plugs in the car. I think it's, I think it's misfiring at some point. So this is some stuff

I've got to look into, but I'm still driving the car. So I don't really care at this point.

I just enjoy it. 35 year old car. I mean, it's going to have,

it's going to have little things. That's like this list that we're going to get into too. Like,

you know, you're going to have to do some work to them to keep them on the road.

It'd be good if you have a second vehicle, 10K, you know, yeah.

What about you with the Datsun? So I just did oil change on the Datsun. I fixed,

we were having an issue with the taillights. The taillights weren't working. And Nick,

the detailer here was like, yeah, dude, like, because they resealed my trunk with spray in,

it's almost like an orange bedliner to go with the car. He's like, you're not getting any ground.

And I was like, oh, so I took a little wire wheel and buzzed off all the sealant that's on,

you know, all around there. And now I've got taillights. So it's crazy. And then what do we do?

We fix the rear brakes. So I put Will Woods on there. And for the life of me, I couldn't figure

out, I was bleeding them. I was getting, you know, brake fluid to come out. And it was,

it was holding pressure, but I just couldn't get any bite on them. And Carlos, another guy here,

he helped me, there's two calipers on, or sorry, two brake, brake bleed valves on these calipers

that I was not seeing. So one on the inside and one on the outside. So my inner caliper

was pushing, but my outer wasn't doing anything. So we fixed that too. So the last thing on that

car is just carpet kit, put the mirrors in like side mirrors, replace the windshield rear view

mirror and get an alignment. And it's good to go, man. Okay. So going to be driving it.

Yeah. Perfect timing as the weather starts to cool down. I really didn't mind not having it over

the summer, but now as it gets cooler, I'm kind of like itching to get on it. Yeah. Yeah. I feel

like when an older car, you know, in the winter time is in San Diego, at least for us, it's like

the best risk. It's the best time. I mean, not, I want to say winter, like fall, you know, fall

into winter, you know, because then it starts to rain later, you know, late January, February,

but like for the most part, this is the best weather to drive it in. You don't need to worry

about AC, roll the windows down. My, my Alfa Romeo, the height of the window sill is like

perfect for like my elbow, like it's the perfect like ride height. You know, it's like little

things like that, you know, that you enjoy. Yeah. So yeah. And even though I don't have AC, I have

little like toggles that you could pull from under the dash and it pulls cold air out from inside.

And it works surprisingly well. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like the little, what do they call those

little mirror glass in the front? Yeah. Yeah. The angle, the corner glass. Yeah. The corner glasses,

like the European cars have them. Like my, my spider has it, my Milano doesn't, but that just

directs air straight into your chest. Yeah. The old like Chevy's too, like old Corvettes and

pickup trucks and stuff, they have that little hood, hood kind of release that pops up and it

directs cold air right in. Okay. Yeah. What about you Dylan? Any thing new for the Geostorm?

I just ordered a bunch of parts for it. I'm mostly just trying to do like preventative

maintenance just to keep the engine happy and healthy for a long time. I need to level it,

level out the suspension so that I can corner balance it and get it properly aligned.

I'm going to do the front brakes on it, new pads and rotors. And then mainly just keeping it,

keeping the interior detailed is my primary concern just because the plastic in those cars

goes bad so quickly and the sun really takes a toll on it. So keeping everything cleaned and

conditioned and one just arrived at the junkyard. So I'm going to go pull some parts off of that.

How do you get like notifications that a Geostorm arrived at a junkyard?

There's an app. If people don't know, there's a PYP pick your part app. That's for all of the

LKQ junkyards, which are all over the country. Wow. And then you put your car in, you can even

put in a year range. Like I put in like 1990 through 1993 and then it will notify you. It'll

send you a text message if one shows up at a junkyard. That's awesome. That's a hack right there.

It's a hack. So listeners, if you don't have it, get the PYP app. Just go to the app store,

look up PYP and you'll find it. There you go. Especially if you're considering a European

car under $10,000. Exactly. For me, my 2001 911, the convertible top was very slow at moving

and moving around. I didn't even want to mess with it. So I like forced it shut one day,

never opened it again. And then today I took it to my mechanic. I got the Porsche hydraulic fluid

and just had them fill up the reservoir, hoping that that's what it is. Because if it's one of

those like Ram motors, like, I don't know, maybe 1500 a piece somewhere around there. So I'm glad

he said it works fine. We filled it up. It was pretty much almost empty. So that was good news.

When he called me, I kind of had that cringe like tell me slowly. But yeah, it ended up being just

hydraulic fluid. You're like looking for hard tops. In the meantime, you're like, if this is a

Ram motor, I'm just going to go hard top with it. Exactly. Exactly. So but yeah, so going, you know,

talking about projects, I think it dawned on me yesterday when I wanted to work on my Alfa Romeo

and I was like, you know what, like, I was dreading it, you know, like I was not looking forward to,

you know, opening that hood and hoping that it starts and then dealing with all the electrical

gremlins that I've been kind of pushing off. But you know, I was thinking even more so to like,

the psychology behind it, right? So you mentioned like preserving the car, right?

Us as like car enthusiasts have this like innate desire to want to keep cars on the road, preserve

them and, you know, have a project that is something that we can get to the finish line on,

right? And it kind of becomes a challenge, right? And it's like a fun challenge, especially because

we're car enthusiasts, we love, you know, working on cars, but not all of us do. Like I'm one of

those people that I'm a car enthusiast, but I just don't have the patience, I don't have the time,

I don't have the confidence, so many things that make me not want to tinker on my cars.

So I wanted to kind of ask you guys who actually do work on your cars,

you know, what that's like, and do you agree on like that psychology of it all?

Yeah, yeah, you want to start around or you want me?

I think that there's this innate feeling of like progress, wanting to make something better,

wanting to leave something in better condition than when you found it.

And it doesn't matter if it's a car or if it's you're you're working on your house or

whatever project it might be, I think that that's where the real kind of reward comes from is I

love taking cars that nobody else really wants or wants to seize the potential in

and kind of starting to build those up. And that's why I think some of these kind of obscure cars,

like I had that Z31 300 ZX, which like nobody loved. And I slammed it, put it on Watts and made

it kind of put my own spin on it. And people started to look twice at it. And that's the

type of thing that I'd like to do is just kind of feel like I'm making, you know, just for me,

a little bit of a statement and making a car nicer. And also the feeling like if you're a driver

and you even something down to like better tires or an alignment or something like that,

that feeling when you get back behind the wheel, you go, Oh, this is, you know, 10 times better.

This is the way it should have felt from the factory or I'm making it better than when it

left the factory. It's all of those things that in your mind, kind of motivates you to continue

to push forward on stuff. Yeah, you're always chasing improvement. Like there's always,

obviously ways that they could be better. And a lot of stuff too, I think an easy way to stay

busy working on your car is just thinking of like little weekend projects you can do.

Like just clean, like just stuff that isn't so much of a headache that provides like a very quick,

like, like gets you satisfied, like a quick result, you know, like something visual,

whether it be like a piece of trim that you want to like just pull off and repaint, you know,

even if you're not super mechanically inclined, you can always do stuff like that to your car

on a weekend. Yeah. What do you got wrong?

I'll to piggyback when nobody else said is I see cars as a way to like a self-expression.

I feel like all of our cars are extensions of us. Like if you think about all of us,

look at all of our phones, we're probably all saved in our phones by whoever drives what,

you know, like Dan Dotson. I got him as Dotson Z, you know what I'm saying? Like

I think we're all extensions of our cars and I think your car should be representation of your

personality. And you know, like you guys mentioned, like sometimes it could be little things as,

you know, we're doing with trim or making something a little bit better than what the factory got wrong,

because the factory is not right every time, you know, and this is why we have the out the

market community is to see these cars, see the potential, see the areas that the factory either

skimped on and fix those issues to make your car a better, a better driving car. But yeah,

I see it as took an extension of who we are. So yeah. Yeah. And I got really good advice from

somebody who has a lot of hobbies and I have a lot of hobbies too. And it's, it's don't get hung

up on the dollars and cents of the hobby because even, even if you, you know, we get spun up on,

well, the value is this. And if I do this, I might devalue it or, oh, I can't be putting so much

money into this car because it's only going to be worth this. I'm going to be upside down on it.

But if it's your hobby and it makes you happy, you can't really put a price on that. And I think

that that's something that I've really started to embody moving forward is if it's, if it's something

that, you know, like, don't be responsible. But if you can, if you can afford it and it makes you

feel good, and that's your thing, like if car stuff is your hobby, don't start, don't, don't be

tracking the dollars that you're into it unless you're trying to make money on it, then it's no

longer really a hobby. So you want to, I think it's good to mentally keep those things separate.

Yeah, I agree. I always tell people don't make a spreadsheet. Yeah. If you, if you really like car,

or if you like the hobby and you want it to be that, if you want to be like, oh, well, I'm just

really good at this and I can make money doing it, which, you know, Victor, you've made some good

purchases, right? And you've made, you've made some money on some cars, because that's kind of the

work that you're in. So there is kind of a little blending of the two. But it's nice to have a car

that you're kind of like, like, I'm so, I'm so beyond what that, what my 510 is worth. But

it's now, now it's just, I just want to make everything exactly how I want. I've pushed through

the madness. Yeah, no, I 100% get it, you know, because I have my cars that I know I'm not going

to keep for a long time, you know, and then as the cars I bought on bring a trailer that I know

are going to, I'm going to keep because like Rome said, it's an expression of who I am,

you know, my two Alpha Romeos. So those are the two cars that I don't mind putting money into.

Like I know I got them both for $7,500, literally both of them, one bid, I won them on bring a

trailer and I'm happy with that entry price because I know it's not going to be $7,500 when

it's all said and done. And I really don't care how much they're going to be worth,

you know, in 10 years from now, to be honest, because yeah, it'll be great, but I don't have

any intention of selling them. Yeah, they make you happy. Exactly. Well, the Milano more than the

Spider. But yeah, it definitely makes me happy. But, you know, you mentioned like the customization

of it all, right? Like making the car become an expression of who you are, right? You're

essentially fixing it to be better, right? Like you said, aftermarket support. So what could we do?

You know, what kind of shocks or springs or sway bars can we get to make it handle better,

right? Because the factory definitely didn't, you know, they definitely did research, but they're

not, you know, putting the very, very best that's out there, right? At least aftermarket wise.

So it is that aspect. But then there's also the preservation part of like you looking at,

you know, XJ Jaguar from the 70s, that's a project barn find. And you're like, you see that and your

eyes light up, you know, I mean, because I've been bidding on them on bring a trailer and some of

them are going at 30, 40, 50 grand. So I see I see this helpless little cat in out in the jungle

in the woods. And I'm like, I want to go save this thing. And I see the upside not to make money on

it. But it does mentally, I'm now I'm contradicting myself. But it does mentally make me feel like,

oh, I could put in 20 grand into this car. And it's still worth it. It's still worth it. And

the driving experience is 30,000, you know, it's the driving experience is still worth it as well.

So I think about that too, when I'm when I'm looking at projects is it will it be fun to drive

on top of does it scratch the itch? Or am I saving it? Do I feel like I'm doing something to preserve

it? Or, you know, whatever it is? Yeah, speaking of scratching itch, I feel like we'll never be

satisfied as car enthusiasts, right? Never will be satisfied. Like we're always looking for that

next project or that next car, you know, you might found you might have found your dream car,

and you might have enjoyed it. And it's not, you know, like, don't meet your heroes type of deal.

And then you end up wanting something newer, right? Usually, like that three year mark is like

what people say is the time, even in relationships, right after three years, like that's a critical

point right there in a relationship. Same thing with cars, you might, you know, like leases that

they're usually 36 months, you're done with it, you give it back, and you're, you know, you get

something else. So a lot of people I feel like don't ever feel don't ever essentially scratch

that itch, right? On the other aspect, I think of like project, like relationships, like think

about how many people get involved with relationships. I know I'm going a little off track here, but

I'll get I'll tie it all together. Like, you get a woman that, you know, is in love with this guy,

and you're like, how the hell does she like him? Like, she's a dime. He's like, you know,

what do you call it? It's TLC. Call those guys scrub scrub. He's a scrub, right? And but yet

she wants to fix him because he has emotional issues. And next thing you know, that's her project,

right? Like he's vulnerable, you could tell, and, you know, he probably cried to her, a man never

cried to her. Right next thing, you know, I watch a lot of Love is Blind Rome. Sorry.

He just finished the season. The reunion was on the 29th of October.

Yeah, he knows.

Damn. It's a different podcast.

But like, I think I tie it to like, you know, what we do here at the garage, like,

there's so many projects that like we want to get involved in and fix and like, you know,

make it our own, you know what I mean? And it's just, it's funny because it's the psychology

aspect of it all. But I was thinking of it the other day, and I was just like driving. I'm like,

damn, like this goes pretty deep. It does. I mean, like you think about you put a lot of emotional

equity into it. It's a case to sweat equity and your financial equity into these projects. You

know, I like the analogy used like within relationships. You know, I grew up, my parents

are still married, you know, been married for like 40 odd years. And every three years, they

often renew their vows and or re renegotiate what's the standard for them, their new baseline.

So you sit down and you talk to each other, go say three years ago, this was what was what

mattered to you. Does the same thing matter to you now? It may not, it may change. That's all.

So it's the same thing with cars. Like three years ago, it was cool to have your car slammed,

cambered out. But now three years now, you're like, ah, it may not be the, it may not be the

thing I want to do. And that project that you had like in mind that you thought was going to be cool

to slammed out cambered or whatever made change into now as a track focused car, you know? Right.

So, you know, like you guys said, like it's a never ending project. Are we ever satisfied? I don't

know. Depends on who you talk to. I feel like regardless of where my cars are at, I'm never

happy and never satisfied. Something can get fixed. So I just, I just feel like it's like,

it's the love of the game. You know, like we all do it like, whether we like to admit it or not,

we all do it for the out of boys in the pad on the back. I don't care what nobody says.

Like we like to say, oh, I built my car for me. Okay. And then you go to a car event and you like

when people look at your car, I don't care what nobody says. You know, we like to like do the

side eye with someone at your car. You're like, oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. You're right.

Yeah. No one admits that. Yeah. But it's the truth. You know, like we like to be appreciated and

understand that, yeah, we may find out that help us little car that's broken down. And you know,

we may see a gem, but other people may see trash, but it doesn't matter. You know, it's your money.

And I say, spend it accordingly. You know, don't go broke doing that.

Even if we had a Y2K episode where we lost the internet, I would still find a way to track down

these cars and buy them. For sure. For sure. What was the, what was that little magazine,

the gas stations that have like all the cars for sale? Yeah, they'll classify the Dupont registry.

They got, they actually reinvented themselves, but the Dupont registry was like the top dog of

that for a long time. But yeah, what was I think auto trader was a magazine. It was. Yeah.

Because I remember I should go to the gas station just to see what was local. Yeah. And like try to

go find those barn finds I could never find. Because I still believe like they don't exist.

You may have found one. I just feel like you hear those stories like, Oh, I found this McLaren,

whatever F1 in a barn by some old lady and they bought it for little to nothing. I feel like

that's just bull crap. Cause I never, I want to see it myself. So the moment I see it or experience

it and I'll believe it. But if I buy this Jag, this will be the second car that I buy off of

Craigslist this year. So I am starting to see there's little diamonds coming up in Craigslist.

You got to jump on them. Yeah. The 911 was Craigslist. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay.

Not never on Facebook market. Yeah. And it, I think that's part of the reason why I was able

to find it. That's, that's a, that's a hack right there. Like no one's, no one's looking at Craigslist

anymore. People still use it. Yeah. Wow. Cause, you know, the internet's got to the point where

now there's so many platforms to find automobiles, right? Between Facebook and Craigslist and,

you know, offer up and bring a trail of cars and bid so many free public auctions like you go to,

you know, we had, you know, Ed from twin brothers auto come on and he goes to so many public

auctions. You don't even need a dealer license anymore, right? You know, we're back in the day,

like it was classifieds and newspaper ads that we had to, you know, use and like not too long ago,

like maybe like 25 years ago, that that's really, that was all forms back in the day. I remember

when I was getting like really heavy into the car scene, going on to a form, back in definitely

the Nissan form or like, you know, the Porsche form of Pelican parts or whatever to find good

deals. Now it is like on the websites you mentioned. And like one thing I've noticed about

Craigslist too, just from listing cars on Craigslist that we have here at A&G is it seems

like it's really good for reaching an out of state audience a little bit better than Facebook

marketplaces sometimes. Yeah. A lot of times when I've gotten leads through Craigslist,

they've been people from out of state that are looking for like that specific car. Okay. Yeah.

So it seems it's clear that it still has a good reach. I think people get stuck in their 20,

40 mile radiuses on Facebook. And honestly, sometimes if you like, I set mine to being in

San Diego to Beaver, Utah of all places. Mine's all the way to Seattle. Really? Yeah. So you do

like a thousand miles. Yeah. Yeah. But I'll put it Beaver, Utah because I get Denver, I get all of

Bay Area and I get all of Southern California, Arizona. I see. Okay. Expand your horizons.

One last thing I want to touch on is like working on your car. So like YouTube and ChatGPT are like

some, you know, really pretty common ways people not like anyone can just wrench on their car,

just going off of what YouTube tells you or what ChatGPT tells you, you know,

I've looked on ChatGPT a lot lately just to kind of get an idea of what the extent of the repair

is. Cause like I said, I'm not going to be working on it. At least when I go into the

mechanic shop, I know, Hey, like, this is a two hour job. You know what I mean? Like,

there's no way you should be charging me for more than that. I know ChatGPT told me, you know what

I mean? So like, like little things like that help someone who's just your average car enthusiast

start to work on cars. Cause I know the feeling like, like I remember not too long ago when I

fixed my girl's battery, right? It was the first time I started a road, had to go get a battery.

And I remember thinking, she's like, you know how to do that. And I was like, yeah,

I know how to do that. Right. She didn't believe me. I know how to change the battery. And I

remember thinking like, shit, I might not know how to do this because every battery is different.

But when you do it and you finish it, it's like a rewarding feeling, especially when, you know,

someone is telling you, giving you a pat on the back and they're like, damn, like,

like that's the most basic thing, right? I know. But for me at the time was my first thing I've

ever did to fix something. And it felt amazing, right? So like, what do you guys think? Do you

feel like now you're starting to see just a lot more people working on their own cars because

of the technology? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think the enthusiast community is still all like on the

on the upswing and, you know, using YouTube, you find out a lot more about things that you

didn't even know that were possible things that people are doing in Europe. For instance, you

were going to talk about these European cars and like, I didn't realize that with a adapter plate,

you can just slam a 2JZ into any BMW and run a get track transmission with a 2JZ. And that kind

of like got my gears turning. I'm like, wow, like Z3M coupe with a 2JZ in it or E28 with a 2J in it,

like doesn't really sound that farfetched anymore. And finding old parts, you know, if you are really

trying to track down stuff that you can't find the US, chances are they're reproducing it in

countries like Poland or Lithuania. And you're going to pay tariffs on it right now. But eBay

actually is a really good spot for that. But you won't know about it unless you're watching

Polish YouTubers or something like that. That's where I'm getting a lot of info is like Eastern

European YouTubers. Oh, wow. Yeah, there's never been a better time than now to own a car that has

stuff that's like obsolete. You know what I mean? Because all of those cars are old. So those problems

are known. And if there's a community surrounding those cars, then people have figured out how to

like reproduce and retrofit. Yeah, especially in lower income countries. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

making it happen because they kind of have to like Cuba is a good example of that. Right. They

didn't get that many imports to their country. So they had to work with what they had. Right. So

probably 75% of the community are mechanics. Not by trade. They have to be... They're a lot

of mechanics. They're Soviet mechanics, by the way. Right. Yeah, exactly. They haven't had American

stuff since the late 50s. So you'll see a 57 Bel Air with a Toyota diesel boat motor. Right.

Exactly. But yeah, I mean, now with 3D printing and CAD and everything, you can make parts that

you can't buy anymore. Same is true of like bushings and stuff. People are like making bushings,

like with... I don't know how they do it, but I've seen a lot of people make custom poly bushings

with like pouring the material into a mold. And it's just now is the time to do all that. And

you still have greater access now with the internet to even factory service information than you

would have ever had. So if you just want to go off that alone, odds are you can type into Google

a service manual for your car and find a PDF download. So yeah, the access to information

is better now than it ever has been. You're 100% right, man. And the time and what your story

with helping out your girl with her battery, it gives you a sense of pride. I think that the

automotive community, we can say all the positive things, but there's some negative stigmas, right?

Like you see the bot not built, or built not bought, stickers or whatever. If you pull it to

an event, you see this really dope bill. And it's almost like, oh, he didn't build it, or she

didn't build that, you know, versus... And who cares, right? Like I don't care if that was the case.

But there's also a sense of pride when you swapped out your exhaust or do a battery or

something simple or basic maintenance. I mean, I helped out my nephew change his oil when he had

his Scion TC. And he was like Beeman, you know, he was 19 at the time and Beeman doing his own

oil change. Like he just couldn't believe he did that. Yeah. That's a teacher man to fish.

Yeah. And like he was, he was so excited. And I think that within the car community,

because there's so much information out there and people have access to it, not everyone

wants to do these things. But when you do it, you get that sense of pride, and especially as a man,

you know, changing the tire, doing a battery, you know, especially for your significant other,

you know, they look at you like, man, like, you know, they really, they really helped me out.

They really, you know, it's that protection piece, that protection piece. And like I said,

we all have a sense of pride, you know, and I lived in this era in my life where I try to be

reasonable with things and understanding like what's the pros and cons on some of this stuff.

But I also like love my ego, you know, like we like our ego stroke, you know, so if I'm gonna,

if I need to change the tire for my girl, I'm gonna do it, you know, even if I don't want to,

but I'm gonna look at her and be like with greasy hands, I'm gonna put my hands in the engine bay

and, you know, get them all dirty. But my, I just changed the tires. She's like,

you did a great job. I'm like, I know I did all that free dinner out of it, free dinner,

you know, and something else. Yeah, I think for a lot of us who, you know,

we're working on computers as our day job to get out there and work with your hands and really

feel like you're being productive and you're doing things that kind of are going the way going away

from professional careers is really rewarding. It's like counter to like what we see every day

with AI and computers and, you know, working on your hands is, there's nothing more manual,

you know, analog. We grew up in the Lego era. Remember, we all built Legos that time in our

life. And the thing about the satisfaction of complaining of Lego in a full set until this

day, I mean, I still build Legos. And like, you feel so happy and like imagine applying that to,

to cars now, you know, it's like, this is a giant Lego, like everything connects.

You know, I'm glad you said that because I didn't play with Legos as a kid.

Would you play with Kinect Ford? Kinects? What's it called?

Wrestling figures. I played with GI Joe's and I had, and this, this car right here was 10 years

old when I, you know, had my first die cast model. But my point is, is like, if you started a young

age and you start to learn patience and how to follow instructions and, you know, all those types

of skills that you need to develop early, because that gains confidence in you, right? You know,

I remember my dad, you know, he, he worked with iron and did a lot of like

window guards and railings, banisters, things like that. And he would, you know, bring me to work

with him and, you know, I would like want to help him as a kid and he'd be like, I get out of here.

What do you need? I don't know nothing, but it'll take you two years to do something that I could

do in two minutes. Like that was my dad's old Italian like personality and like it, it shredded

my confidence. You know what I mean? Like, like if you really want to get into the psychology of it

all, but like, you know, I see my girl's niece, nephew, actually, and I always give him Legos

and he loves Legos and he loves cars. And I can tell like, you know, I'll bring him and show him

the engine and show him what everything is. Like, oh, that's the alternator, you know, that's the

valve cover. And he's like, you know, six, seven years old now. And, and I could tell he's excited

about it. And like, he loves to work on Legos. And that, that tells me like when he gets older,

he's going to 100% be confident in working on cars. He's going to tinker. He's going to tinker.

Yeah, because it's like, it's normal to him, you know, so it starts at a young age, you know,

like I, like I mentioned, confidence is key, especially when you're dealing with, you know,

cars that are your own that are under 10,000, because that price point, you can get a nice car

under 10,000, but chances are if it's European, it's going to have electrical gremlins,

it's going to have noises and rattles and things that like, if you want, if you're a perfectionist,

it's not, it may not be the car for you. And you're going to save a lot of, a lot of money

doing work yourself on those cars. If you take them to a specialist, it's going to be 200 bucks an

hour. So think about that every hour that you work on your car, you can technically think about it,

you're saving $200. Great way to compartmentalize it, right? You know, Dylan mentioned this is the

best time to, to, there's no better time to own a classic or vintage car than right now, right?

Information age, obviously the information is out there on the internet, we can always find it,

the, you know, 3D printing, anything can be reproduced. And, you know, people where we

usually on cars like this, like, where am I going to find parts? What are parts availability,

availability like? And if it doesn't exist, I'm sure there's another, there's a message thread

where there's the exact fitment of another, you know, brand that would fit, you know, like I've

heard that before, you know, like, oh, if you use, you know, the hose on a GMC cyclone, it fits

perfectly on an Alfa Romeo Milano, like crazy stuff like that. And those are the message boards,

right? The threads, they tell you that. So I want to segue into this list. Did you have something

you wanted to, you had a list of cars that you want me to start? Well, yeah, because I figured

we'll end on the Motor Trend article. Okay, all right. So initially I had, I had old stuff and

new stuff, but I'm just going to do the old stuff right now. Yeah, let's go. So the first one that

I thought about, and it's probably easier to find in warm climates is why don't why don't you, why

don't you make us guess? Okay, all right. So give us the years to, you know, all right. So this is,

this is 80, I think 78 to 83. They made this, this car under 10,000 under 10,000 classic European

car, a two door coupe, four cylinder rear wheel drive. Yeah, yeah. Is this the only two door

coupe? It's only ever came as a two door. Yeah, it's European 78 to 83 roughly. Yeah.

Triumph TR6. Nope, it's coupe. Those are convertibles. They're all, they're both though. No,

they're not. They are all. Yeah, yeah. German is German. 78 to 83. I get hung up on the years

anytime we do it. Yeah. So if it's German, it's not, it's not E30. It's not 190. But I think that

there, there might have been some automatic, but they're almost all manual. And let's see what other

things can I say? It is, it is a BMW. It's an E21. E21. There you go. So, okay. So everybody poo-poos

the 320i because it's an M10, which is the BMW 2002 engine. So think about the E21. It's in between

the 2002 and the E30. And it made like 100, 110 horsepower, fuel injected, a Kjet. A lot of them

have limited slip differentials. They have big US bumpers on them. They look gorgeous with euro

bumpers, but you can boost these things for $2,000. Very easy. Eaton makes a supercharger,

bolt on, or you can get a Kjet turbo kit for $2,000 and you basically double the horsepower.

So you're looking at a, and you had a turbo 2002. So you, you know, was yours fuel injected?

Yep. So same, same deal, right? I don't know how much a kit was for 2002, but I'm looking at an

Eaton supercharger. Six pounds of boost is all you need for an M10. And you've got 180, 200 horsepower,

depending on how you set it up. Wow. I think it's a good looking car. And they're on Facebook right

now, six, seven grand. And I could see that. That's half the price of an E30. Yeah. These are,

these are actually really good looking cars. You know, they, they replaced 2002. They did.

Right. So this is like the fuel injected pretty much three series right now. I'm looking at it

and I'm thinking, okay, late seventies to early eighties, that's got to be early fuel injection,

which we've talked like early fuel injection Kjet Bosch obviously has its quirks. Yeah.

And with a Euro, with the Euro bumper swap, it's very easy to do actually. And you can get repro

same thing. You can get reproduction Euro bumpers from Lithuania or, you know, Czechoslovakia or

wherever. He's always in Eastern Europe. Get on eBay. They're out there. They're out there.

That's a good one because of the simple fact that you don't see them often. So I imagine

there's a handful out there. They're forgotten cars for sure. Yeah. That need to be preserved.

I mean, white with gold BBS is Euro bumper. The round headlights is, is what does it for me.

Yeah. Those six inch, are they set nine inch, six inch head? I don't know. Yeah. Those are cool.

I really like that. So I imagine, yeah, you said what about all day six, seven thousand running,

running and driving. They might have a little bit of rust. So try to find a warm climate car.

Well, I'm sure most of the cars we talk about on this podcast that everyone's got

throats that need to be cleared today. Like rust back then was common simply because like steel

wasn't galvanized, right? And a lot of times they didn't have like, what do you call it,

like systems, irrigation systems, right? Like in the car, like where little channels can kind of,

you know, direct water away from where they get clogged. Yeah. So, you know, I don't think

they were thinking of these things back then. But yeah, I mean, most European cars, especially,

you know, in inclement weather areas are going to be rusted. Yeah. So, okay, so I have one more,

I have a bunch, but the other one I really want to bring up is kind of later era, two door,

German as well, coupe, V8, rear wheel drive, Porsche 928. No, it's hard to find those two.

Those are on the 10, yeah. You said kind of later as in what? So, I believe it was 89 to 2000,

actually. They had a really long run. V8, rear wheel drive, German. Okay.

V8 series? That's not on the 10. No. It's not a coupe. It's a, well, it's a convertible slash

coupe. Okay. Comes with a hardtop. With a V8. Should be a dead giveaway. Comes with a hardtop,

German. Yeah. Is it a, no. Came with a hardtop, removable hardtop from the factory.

Oh, Mercedes. It's not. Oh, SL. SL. Oh my gosh. R129. And I always lean, because I've been looking

at these for a long time is 96 plus, which is OBD2, but you still get kind of a vintage car.

That's a bulletproof V8. A lot of people come for $10,000. You probably are going to be hard

pressed to find one where the soft top mechanism is working perfectly to rebuild those soft top

cylinders is five grand or four grand or something like that. Good news is they look beautiful with

a hardtop and the soft top is very easy to do manually. It's just, it's, I don't even know why

you mess with the automatic thing. It's kind of bragging rights, but they, they're pretty heavy,

they're like 4,000 pounds, but they make like 320 horsepower or something like that. So plenty of

oomph. They are gorgeous looking. I think the interiors are really nice too, especially if you

get a 96, 97. When they go to 98, they kind of get a little bit more bubbly. So I like that really

angular blocky, like W124 style interior, kind of like your car too. And they drive really well.

It's a barge, but you can put them on some Bilsteins and you can put them on 17 inch monoblocks.

They look amazing. And it's a friggin reliable car too. The automatics are overbuilt. The engines

are overbuilt. They go high miles. And they had three different power trains, right?

Yeah. For the R129. 320, which is the M104. Which did come with the manual option. Yeah,

you could. You could find those super rare. I don't know if you get one of those for less than

15. The, the Plain Jane V8 is probably the most common and the cheapest. And then the V12, you're

looking at 15 to 25. The SL600. Yeah. Yeah. I could see the, what is it, the three SL350?

The 320. 320. Yeah. Yeah. I could see that in the automatic being under 10 grand, but sorted,

right? Most, I never see those top, topless. I never, I'd like, because like you said,

like the tops usually fail because no one ever takes that hard top off because it's like a

three person job, right? Where are you going to store it? It's, it's heavy. It's, it's pretty big.

And then there's like a ton of actuators that like function to get that top off and the soft top.

And yeah, I feel like most people, you know, just keep it up. And they look great with the hard top.

They do. And they seal up, like you don't get any wind noise or anything like that. It's like

German, they put all the money into that car when they developed it. It took 12 years or

something to develop because they were, they were initially going to roll it out in like 83.

And then they went back and did a bunch of, I guess Bruno Sacco had a bunch of like requirements

for them and, and they redesigned it basically. So yeah, I think the V8's the best one because

you don't really have much lighter of a chassis with the V6. It's only like a straight six,

100 pounds or 120 pounds. And then the V12 is a lot heavier. It's pretty cumbersome. So I think

the V8 is a sweet spot and $10,000 gets you a really, really nice one. 500. So the V8 SL 500,

you can get one under 10. Yeah. And they make, that makes the best noise too. You put an exhaust

on that or you, you know, delete a resonator or something like that. And it sounds really good.

Yeah. You see those a lot on YouTube, like bank for your buck Mercedes, you know, like the R107,

right? The one that Shelby has that, like those are a little bit over 10 grand, right? I imagine

like a little bit depends. You can get a running drive, roadworthy one for under 10, I think. Yeah.

Not a V8 or really paid on 10 for hers. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. But I was hers is a 380, right?

They did make 560s. So those are high, big premium. Yeah. I've seen like my buddy sold

this 380 on bring a trailer for like around 17,000 with like 50,000 miles. Yeah. You know,

one owner, like it was a low mileage example. But that's the thing about these 129s is a lot

of them are still pretty low miles. So cheap. Yeah. You can find one, you find one for less,

under 100K for $10,000. I mean, I think that's, that's a hell of a car. Yeah. You feel like a

boss. It's a weekend driver that a yuppie owned, you know, back in the 90s, early 90s and he said,

you know, I mean, it's a yuppie mobile. It's a young business professional car. You know,

like you ever watched a really good video, Jason Camisa on the Hagrid YouTube channel,

he has a whole video on all three. He actually drives all three. He just came out with it.

Yeah. So they're going to go up in value. Thanks a lot, Jason.

All right. So let's get into this list of five of the best classic European cars to drive on a

budget of 10,000 a less. Now, keep in mind, this article was summer of 2020. Okay. I have one that

I hope is on this list that I want to say because when you read the topic off to me earlier, there

was one distinct car that came to mind. So I'm going to see if it's on the list. If it's not,

I'll say it afterwards. Okay. Fair. So I'm going to get into it, starting with a vehicle that is

from the 1970s. All right. So keep in mind, this vehicle has been around for longer than the 70s.

But the one on this list, it's specific to this generation. So it's 10 year period, 70 to 79.

I'll me read you a quick little excerpt from underneath the article. So it was an ubiquitous

vehicle that was pretty much created in large numbers. Post wagon bug. Inexpensive. Yes. There

you go. Wow. There you go. The 70s. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, ubiquitous as in like, yeah,

this car took the German like not just Germans, even Americans all over. That was there. That was,

it was the people's wagon. Right. So I agree on this one as like a good classic car you can get

for under 10. My buddy Christian brings his to Sunday grit all the time. He has that red one.

That red one. Yeah. And he loves working on his because it's so easy. No, he ended up getting

a new motor for it. Like just to kind of have a motor kind of to like as a part motor, I guess.

Because you heard initially you heard some rod knock in it, but then realized like,

it's fine. It was something minor. So now it's just his parts motor. Darn it.

But but yeah, like, like, what could he sell it for for the amount of money he put into it?

You know, they're not worth much. Right. And that's what I noticed on this list. A lot of these

cars are just not worth it. But when you see him, you're like, damn, like that's cool. It's a lot

of bang for your buck type of cars on this list. Anything else on the beetle?

You know, I think we're good.

Honestly, like when I think of Beatles, I don't I just think that it's just like,

it's like seeing the you ever see a Renault. Forget what it's called. It's like the car.

No, it's like the one that looks like it's from that one. It's a Citroen Citroen Citroen,

my bad. That car looks like it's from the 1940s, but it's like from 19 as new as like 1978, right?

It's something like that. Some crazy like new, not new, but not too old. And I look at this car

and I think the same. It's just like, oh, it's a beetle. Like who knows, that could either be a 1985

or it could be a 1942, you know, kind of like the bus too. You know, when you see a bus,

if you know, you know, like people like Ruben, who's on the podcast, he can look at the front

of a bus and he'll know what year it is just based on the positioning of the, you know,

the taillight markers. All right, moving on. So 1975 to 1994 and the reason why they say

75 for this cars, it started actually in the 60s. But they say 75 simply because they improved the

fuel injection in 75. Prior to 75, there was a speaker mechanical fuel injection.

Going to say Alpha Romeo spider. Good job. All right. So we got one for a, hey, I'm two,

I'm three, I'm three. Oh wait, my bad. I got to a dance. You got to a dance. That's right. I

wasn't even counting that. Sorry. But yeah, look, I gave you a lot of clues. This is one of those

cars that like, I honestly thought when I bought mine for 7500, I was like, damn, like I scored.

You know, this is, this is such a classic car. It's Italian. It's rare, like,

but they're not rare. Like I realized, like in America, at least they made a lot of them,

right? People bought them from 66 all the way to 1994. This car barely has changed. So kind of

like the beetle, you look at it from the front end. I mean, it looks like how it did back in,

you know, 1967 when it was in the graduate. And Dustin Hoffman is driving it from that like cool

point of view through the tunnel and through the bridge over the bridge. But they do such a good

job. They did such a good job of modernizing it that, you know, like your car looks distinctly

80s. The 60s cars look distinctly 60s. The 70s cars look distinctly 70s. I think they do it.

You're right. It's funny because like, yeah, they do just enough and it's usually the tail end,

right? That chain that distinguishes the series one from the four and throughout and in the interiors.

Right. But yeah, like I look at my alpha, you know, every time I pass it, it's in my driveway.

I look twice at it every single time. I can't stop loving them because Pin and Farina,

I mean, they make beautiful cars, right? I mean, I don't know. I don't think they ever missed,

to be honest. Is, is a set something like a 71 72 is a pre smog car more than $10,000 series two

usually called cam tails are usually more than 10 grand because of not the smog. It's mainly

like it's still kind of, it's the classic version of the car, right? It's got the pre

impact bumpers, right? The chrome bumpers. Exactly. Can you, so I was interested in this car for a

long time, but I won't want to twin carb it. Is it easy to twin carb? Yeah. Like get rid of the

speaker. That's what everyone does. Yeah. And they'll put, because it's that same twin cam,

either 1750 or even 1600, you know, the early ones, but a lot of the ones that you'll see are

going to have the two liter twin cam and then you can put Weber's on it. Yeah. Usually double

Weber's. Did you know that I just found out Weber's were Italian? Yeah. I thought it was American.

I was like, Oh, like the grill company, like, I knew it wasn't the same as the grill company,

but I knew it just sounds like an American company, you know, or even German. Yeah. I mean,

it's spelled W-E-B-E-R. Right. Like it doesn't have any vowel at the end of it. It's bad,

it's bad marketing. I mean, that guy, no, I just, yeah, when I was like, Oh, shit, those are Italian

carbs. Yeah. I was like, we're there. All right. So this one, pretty long stretch. All right. So

62 to 80. All right. So yeah, long stretch. Let me read you guys the little part here without

giving it away. By the way, I see this car all the time in Kensington as a red one always parked

in front of the Starbucks with wire wheels. MGB. MGB. I'm about to say that. MGB, dude. Dude,

you're money. MGB. Did you read this list at all? No, no. So you know that red one in Kensington?

No, no, I don't. I just was thinking about that car. Yeah. I was thinking that or Fiat 124.

Just from the years alone. Jesus. These guys are good. I thought you were a nerd. Yeah.

Well, I think that the MGB, like the, I don't know, the MGBD. The ones that that is not the convertible

or the hatchback. Oh, GT, the MGB GT. Yes. With the six cylinder, like the rare one to find.

Like I was looking at trying to buy one of those. It's such a funky looking car. It is. You'll see

them around. But I would try to get one without the wire wheels because like you're kind of stuck

with that. But like this model, the one that's pictured in the article doesn't have those impact

bumpers. Like if you can get one without like with the chrome, you know, bumpers way nicer looking.

Obviously, you know, that was the five bumper, the five mile an hour bumper was like a thing in the

70s. But yeah, like MG midgets and triumphs. There's a lot of cars in this category, pretty

much British roadsters that are all that. They're all like kind of bundled up in this

still look at that price range. Yeah. TR, TR six is a good buy with like my buddy bought one and

he moved and I was like the caretaker person who sold it. And it was like such a great car,

like great cars, crews around it. It had that inline six tons of torque, like truck motor,

basically. You had a friend who had a TR six with a SR swap in it. It was super cool. He'd use like

the dots and fender flares. Super baller, man. Super cool car. Most of the cars I thought of on

this list were like roadsters. Yeah. You know, roadsters are like other sports cars from the

80s and 90s. Yeah. So far, I mean, the Beetle may have convertibles right back then too. They did.

So technically all three of these are convertibles. So for the MG, it does say parts and service

availability in the U.S. remain strong. Costs are quite affordable, relatively inexpensive parts,

easy to work on design. Think of it. The MGB has a fantastic entry point to a budget European classic

car hobby. So yeah, expect to work on it. But it's given away with the wire wheels though. I was like,

what the hell is that wire wheels? Yeah. Yeah. It's electrics. That's the killer. Yeah. Wire wheels

to me, I think British. I think I'd get a 124 over an MG just because it's that same two-liter

that's in your car too. This says 1.8. Oh, it's... Let's see. So these cheap and cheerful MGs are

small rear drive two-seaters with a 1.8-liter four-cylinder engine and four-speed manual.

But I'm saying a Fiat 124 is... Oh, my bad. That's the one that I would get if I was going to get

one of those cheap convertibles, I think. Yeah. It's very similar. It's a different,

it's a Lampretti powertrain on the Fiat compared to the two-liter twin cam and the alpha. But very

similar, pin and farina design body, I believe. The only thing is the interior has a wooden trim

rather than the alpha is more of a leather or hard plastic finish. So moving on to 83 to 88,

this is a... So different from a different country than the, well, the last one that

we just talked about. So let me get into some things here. So rear... So front engine, rear

transaxle design. 944. There we go, Dylan. That's the car I was going to say. But I suspected it was

on the list. There you go. You were right. You were right. 83 to 88, 944. So what do you think?

You agree that this is a good one? Absolutely, absolutely. I think as far as sub 10k German

or European cars in general go, I think the 944 is like probably the most sound choice you can

possibly make. For sure. You see them for sale all the time with crazy high miles, run and drive.

They're relatively simple. They have a massive following. So it's easy to get parts and support

for them. They're common. You can buy a whole parts car for like a non-running parts car for like

under three grand. So I would say it's a really solid choice. Tons of aftermarket. You can put

a chip on those to make a little bit more power because everyone's like, oh, they don't, they

don't have any power. They don't weigh a lot either. You can really set those things up to be

Canyon. And this is the non-turbo virgin. Yeah. Yeah. The turbo is going to be 15 to 20. So it

specifically mentioned these years because it was naturally aspirated, but it also didn't have the

16 valve engine. So these are cheaper. So two and a half, 2.7 liter engine. And then there's some

issues, I guess, with timing belt. So it's an interference engine, I imagine. That's like the

one thing with 944 is that you always have to address. But if you take care of that, they're

otherwise pretty phenomenal. Find one that somebody just did that on. And you're good.

Yeah. 30,000 miles.

Member of Analog and Grit, JP had one. And I know for a while he was looking to sell his,

and he ended up trading it for an S class. Right. So like, I remember talking to him and thinking

like, like a Porsche for like an S class. Like I didn't think that was an even trade. But when

you think about it, like his taste change, right? Like now he wants to like an executive car.

And I'm sure price for value for value, they're equal. But a 944, like when I look at his car,

it was like a race spec. Like it had like the X's on the wind, like the way he had it. But

I could tell he probably just grew out of it. It wasn't that like, like, oh, let me get rid of this

like headache. Well, he also bought a, got a Mini Cooper. Mini Cooper, right? So like his sports car

now was the Mini Cooper. Now the, the chill car, you know, because you know, like he's part of the

cartel. So he says a choking. Yeah. But um, yeah, he needed that executive car. So it fits him.

I think if you're going to have one enthusiast car and you know, a practical car on the side,

the 944 does everything. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I hear the turbos are problematic. So you don't

really want to get a turbo. Yeah. They're more valuable, but you know, be prepared.

Yeah. If you're looking for a project car, you want to wrench on yourself, you know,

maybe stay away from a turbo, but the turbos, you know, if you're willing to service them

and keep them in good shape, they're a huge step up over the regular 944.

So I think it's pretty fair to say that every vehicle we talked about, you need to know how to

work on cars, you know, to really, you know, it's an, it's a cheap entry level price point,

but expect to work on it. Or have a good shop. Yeah. Or have a good shop, right? I mean,

I personally don't work on cars and I have an Alpha Romeo of the same generation. So,

you know, my shop, the labor rates only 120 bucks. So I can deal with it. Send me there.

Well, my mobile mechanic, the one that I work, that works on the Alpha, he charges $75 and he's

at a Gillespie airfield. So I can send you a contact if you need. Just an old guy that's

late seventies. He's got two hip replacements and, you know, I'm just hoping he chugs along

because if he goes and the alpha's got to go. I'm getting an alignment on the 911 right now

at 220 bucks an hour. Is that Porsche's rates? Yeah. Well, it's yeah, they, but they do everything.

These guys do everything from Bugatti's to they worked on my M3. So makes sense. Yeah.

All right. Last one on this list. All right. 76 to 85. Okay. Gee, you say all these cheap European

cars sound like a ton of fun, but I'm old and I have kids and or dogs. A 2C car just doesn't

cut it in any longer. So what should I buy? So this car is a four door. It's not a two-seater.

It's not a 123, is it? It is a 123. Really? Yeah. Mercedes Benz sedan. Yeah. I like this list

right here. I like this list. I know Dylan was going to get it because I was thinking five series.

You can buy the nicest 123 sedan that exists for 10 grand. So Mercedes sold W123s as coupes

and wagons, right? Making these models quite desirable. Consequently, finding a good one can

take healthy amounts of both effort and luck in the 10,000 or less price range. So you say like

because this is 2020. Yeah. So they $10,000 will still get you a good one. I mean 2020,

I would say was about peak because that's when I sold my gas powered 123 and I got like full

retail for it. I don't think I could do that now. They've kind of, there was like maybe a little bit

of a bubble that popped, but wagon prices have gone up, coupe prices have gone up. The sedans,

you can still find a really nice sorted one for under 10 grand. Okay. Another thing too with

those cars is I would say that mileage is less of a concern. It's more about care. You can check

to see how much blow by the engine has. You'll see ones with lower miles that have a whole

lot more blow by than one that has double. So you could find a gem that's cheap with high miles and

one of those for under five grand. Damn. And then you have a little bit of money left to put into

it. I was going to say we've got one here for 4500 or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It says the

later turbo, the 300 turbo diesel models are the ones to get, right? Definitely. That's the one I

know you want. Definitely. Is the gas one faster than the turbo diesel? Yes. So it's a six cylinder

gas. In line six, yep. 2.8 liter in line six gas. It's good off the line, much better off the

line than a diesel or a turbo diesel. Top end, it feels kind of about the same based on driving

both. But yeah, stop light to stop light. The gas model just feels way more powerful. Yeah.

Diesel's came with a manual too, huh? Yes, they did. Yeah. They're rare versions. Not very many

turbo diesels came with manuals. Yeah. But 240d, 300d non-turbo, lots of manuals. Okay. A gas coop

would be would be the one for me. Probably more than 10 grand though. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you

brought up a good point. Most of the cars on this list, like it doesn't matter what the miles are at

this point. It's how well preserved are they? How well taken care of it? Are they, you know, people

always say like, oh, is it a five digital domiter because, you know, it rolled over? Like at the

end of the day, like look at the car, look at the paint, look at the plastics. You can tell

wear and tear on a car, right? You can see if it looks like 50,000 miles or if it looks like

200,000 miles, right? But if it's well taken care of its garage kept, it was a family car,

one owner, maybe one family car, like those are the ones you want to go for. Yeah. And a lot of

these cars, especially the ones that I think I mentioned too, they weren't necessarily always

the first car. And if somebody bought them new, they were like a fun second second vehicle,

right? So a lot of the time, the miles per year is a lot lower than, you know, even 123.

For the Spyder and the MGB for sure. Those were like weekend driver cars. Yeah. I'm

thinking R129 as well. That one too, yeah. I want to do an honorable mention on a 124

E-Class Coupe as well, because I think those are still under $10,000, especially a late one,

like a 93. Actually, I think in 89, they got the M104. So when they got an M104,

those were, and our friend Nico had a couple of them, that's when they go from 180 horsepower

to 220 horsepower. Dual overhead cam, it's like a big jump. So I think that that car,

it also is going to hold its value. It's going to be a fun car to drive, maybe get a little crazy

and manual swap it, because they sold a ton of manuals in Europe, like it's been done before.

And that's money kind of like a quasi. That's money that you is well spent. When you go to sell

it, if it's properly done swap, you can make money on that. Got a couple, can I do a couple more?

Go ahead. Volvo turbo brick, super fun. I had a 244, but I would get the wagon just because it's

even more hilarious. You can put 20 pounds of boost through those B230FTs and make 300 horsepower,

which is hilarious. And the rest of the drivetrain will take it. It's a solid rear axle,

four speed or five speed with overdrive. Little bit newer, an XK8 coupe Jaguar. Those are coming

way down in value. The XKRs are a little out of reach, but they're more complicated, especially

a super charged one, but they're super cool looking. That's the kind of car you turn around,

you look at and you're like, I'm James fucking Bond. And then along those lines of newer coupes,

CLK55, either a W208 or the 362 horsepower W209. I think those are just big, burly 5.5

liter V8s. This is AMG. These are AMGs. 110. Yeah. Maybe not the 209, but actually they're

actually coming down while the 208s are coming up. So there's like this inflection point. I got

two new cars, which I was shocked to find. Number one, the Fiatta, the new Fiat 124.

You can find them under 10 now. Manual under 10. So non Abarth manual. So it's a, I don't know,

is that a 1.4 turbo or is that non turbo? They didn't get the, no, they are turbos. The Miata

was in turbo. The Abarth is a 1.6 and then the regular one is a 1.4. Somewhere around there.

It's a small displacement because the Miata was, I think,

correct me if I'm wrong, like a 1.8 naturally aspirated, something like that.

But they're cheaper than NDS. Yeah, definitely. It's crazy. Definitely. And then a 128 BMW,

the naturally aspirated with the three liter, it's an N51 is the one you'd want to get. So the N51

is the non, you love ultra low emissions vehicle one. So you get a higher compression motor and all

that. And 2011, 2010, you can get those with a DCT. Maybe that's just the 135. Yeah, but you can get

an IS. You can get a 128 IS with a manual for under 10 grand. They made 128 ISs? I know we talked

about the 135, the one that was on cars and vids. I believe so. I didn't know the 128 came as an IS.

But to your point, a 128 is under 10,000. It looks just like a 1M or 135. The only way you're

going to know is if you read the badge. And those three liters are known for bullet proof

reliability. You're going to have little electrical issues or whatever, BMW,

check engine lights and sensors and stuff before the engine does anything. So you can daily,

that could be your only car. If I was a young kid with a $10,000 budget and I just needed one car,

I would get a 128. The back seats actually fit people, which is crazy. It's got a good manual

transmission. It feels pretty good. Tons of aftermarket support. You can do everything to those

cars. I got an honorable mention. Kind of like the forgotten Porsche, the Porsche Boxer. Yeah.

They were definitely within a $10,000 range. I remember early on in my Marine Corps career,

which do autocross on base in Cherryport, North Carolina, and you see a lot of Porsche Boxers

there on an autocross track. Getting it. Getting it. This is the first gen Boxster, right? Yeah.

So like what, 98? 99? It started? Yeah. Those are notorious for being the perfect entry-level

Porsche to get, to kind of just become part of the club, right? Yeah. Like for us, we're at that age

where like, oh, 9-11 or bust. But at the same time, all the cars we just mentioned,

how many kids are in their 20s by those cars? So if they want to get a Porsche, they can. That's

the one. That's the one. The 944, obviously, even though I only mentioned earlier, the V8,

the GT1, you said 928? Yeah. It was a 928, 968 or something. 928. Those are just like everyone,

notoriously said, those cars are just like headaches. But the 944, a little bit more

reliable, and then the Boxster is so much more modern. Yeah. Yeah. And you can do some tasteful

little mods to make a Boxster look super cool. You can put like the GT3 style front bumper on there,

you put it on some nice wheels, slam it, not slam it, but lower it. And I mean, that's a cool,

like if you're 20 years old, oh, nice Porsche. Who cares? Yeah. I appreciate you guys sharing

all these. I mean, there's a lot, you guys mentioned a bunch that I didn't even think of.

I was thinking Alfa Romeo's. Always on the mind. Yeah. But like all those cars you mentioned,

you see a lot of them like young kids coming to Sunday grit, like for example, the Mercedes,

whether it's a W123 or whatever chassis code, 80s, 90s Mercedes-Benz,

young kids, the young enthusiasts are buying those. We had this podcast a few weeks back.

We had Shelby and Chris Serrano on who both own classic Mercedes-Benz along with Dylan.

And they're all young. And I was like, what do you think of Doug Demiro saying that no

young enthusiasts are buying up old vintage Mercedes? You can take it with a grain of salt,

man. Doug also said that he'd, every car, he likes every car being like factory wheels from like,

if a car has modified wheels or upgraded wheels, he's like, he's just blasphemy to him.

So you gotta take it with a grain of salt. Like, Doug is the guy. He says that because he

reviews it. He wants the car to look like how it looked. I get that part, especially me, you know,

like I'm buying and selling. So usually I keep the stock wheels. When a guy is using the word

summer as a verb, you got to stop. He's not really operating in the same

spheres that we are anymore. The guy summers in Nantucket. So when I hear that, I'm like,

you know, really, you're not looking at $10,000 cars. So yeah, no, look, his argument was BMW

was the ultimate driving machine. It was more for like, you know, the younger business professional

yuppie, right? Where the Mercedes, yeah, maybe some yuppies were driving him. But for the most

part, you know, these were like executives that were buying up the 80s SLs and so on. So like,

the ultimate driving machine was for the younger car enthusiasts, they made more manuals, right?

You know, the older, you know, sophisticated gentleman has, you know, doesn't want a third

pedal, right? So now the younger generation, that's car enthusiasts, they all like, you know,

want to drive stick and it's cool to drive stick, right? Because none of their friends know how

they're not buying Mercedes. They want to buy something that's manual. That makes sense.

I think a lot of them are clapped out now, though, like manual BMWs, finding a good one

these days, they've the kids have kind of been priced out of them for a good one. And

nobody wants a paperweight as their fun car, like you said, you want to have a car that you can get

in and drive. And I think a lot of these Mercedes offer that kind of reliability, reliability,

yeah, and they're dependable, and they weren't beat on, they had reliable like responsible first

and second and third owners. So if you find one that was owned by somebody who, you know,

oh, my husband passed away, this was his car or whatever, like I still am finding those.

And that's the one to get. Yeah. Dylan, you were here. You're the only one here in your 20s

buying up Mercedes. What do you think? I mean, I think Mercedes just have a different appeal.

I mean, I could see how, you know, BMW in many cases would be more appealing to like a young

person as a first enthusiast car. But I think I just have like understood the ease of ownership

with Mercedes. I love the comfort that they provide just how easy they are to drive and

just how balanced and well sorted they are. If I was looking for like a European performance car

from the 80s or 90s, I'd yeah, I'd probably go BMW. But you know, Mercedes just I think have a

different appeal. Yeah. Stinky hit it on the head with performance. I think it's a more responsible

buy too. I don't know how many of if you guys ever did this, but like my first few cars I absolutely

ruined stripped them out, took out, you know, all of the sound deadening, I put them on all hard

bushings, loud exhaust, and it's like with a Mercedes, it's like, you don't do it's just not

done. Yeah, you don't do that like with a BMW. Oh yeah, raised car, you know, but like that

temptation kind of goes away when you're looking at an E class or an S class. Yeah, I was surprised

to see that many like young members of analog and grit coming in with their, you know, 190s and,

you know, they're just like 300 ease and, you know, 80s, early 90s Mercedes Benz. I was really

surprised, you know, I could see like, you know, E 30s, right, there's a handful of, you know,

people here that have, you know, three series E 30 BMWs. But like, when I saw the Mercedes,

that's why I'm bringing up this thing about Doug, because he's probably a little bit out of touch

with what these younger buyers are actually driving because they want a more dependable car,

and maybe they don't know how to drive stick. I mean, at this point, I think we have more Mercedes

here. Yeah, you know, sweet victory. It's close. We should actually, we should actually

tally it up. That would be fun. Yeah, because like, because we have a lot of people trying to

sell BMWs right now. Yeah, we're trying to buy Mercedes here. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm trying,

I'm trying to buy it. I have two now. Right, right. I mean, like, I don't know if Doug has

had a 124 or a 123, but for me, I've had two 124s, like, I miss them, you know, I think people

miss that era. Yeah, so I think the box it checks, and I never owned one, but correct me if I'm wrong,

is it's a vintage classic that you can get in, it fires up, you can drive it from point A to point

B, and you don't have to worry about it. But you still feel cool. It gives you that feeling,

like, like you said in the podcast a few ago, that like, it reminds you as to why you're a car

enthusiast, right? It doesn't have that like, oh, like, is something going to break or like,

you know, like, you tinker with it, the next thing you know, like, you changed, you know,

you added more boost, and now it's going to, you know, not be able to handle it. So it's a

different type of vintage car ownership experience. One other thing I'd like to add,

just in terms of like vintage Mercedes ownership, is the driving experience,

I think Mercedes made feel very modern. Like at the time, like, if you get behind the wheel of a

123, it still feels like a modern car in many ways. It's quiet on the inside. You know, it's,

it's, it has good suspension, it doesn't feel like old and, you know, rickety, it feels solid.

Unbelievable turning radius. Yes, that's another thing too with 123s is the turning radius is

insane. All of those little things add up and they make those classics feel like a, like,

like it can be a daily driver. Yeah, with air conditioning. That's a, that's a good word to

describe it. They feel livable. Yeah. So it's an easy transition, right? Because not everyone

can get into a classic car and then be like comfortable in it. Yeah, like those British

sports, those British convertibles and the Italian convertibles, like a lot of people

aren't built for that. Right. Yeah, for that life. Yeah, exactly. If you're driving like a 2015

Corolla and you're going to switch it out for a vintage car, you're not going to have a hard time

in a Mercedes. Right. That's a really good point. I think you can hit it on the nail on the head

with that. So all right, I guess Doug DiMiro's going to have to drive one and then maybe recognize

that the market might say something. This is what he should drive. I don't want him to drive one.

I want him to keep these things sleepy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Like you said, he's in another

stratosphere when it comes to what cars he owns. Shout out to what he's been doing, man.

I have a lot, so much love and respect for that guy. Well, but that's why we're bringing him up,

right? Because he's obviously impacting the, the enthusiasts like, you know,

greatly content. Yeah. I think it's funny because he loves the G wagon. Yeah. And like the G wagon

was made from 74 to 2000 to now to current. Yeah. Yeah. He loves E class wagons too. He just reviewed

the new one. Yeah. You know, so those are another, like, like he mentioned, like the W123 wagons,

like the most comfortable, cool vintage classic car you can buy. Yep. Right. Wagon wise, because

it's super practical. We are facing third row too, right? Yeah. On the 81 and up. Yeah. Apparently,

they just got rid of it in the new one. No more trash, no middle fingers. I was going to buy one

for 140,000, but I'm out now. I think that's what they, they're up there over 100,000. Yeah.

We have an E 63 wagon here for sale. Yeah. You should check it out. It's really cool. E 63 wagon.

Yeah. It's like a 7 08. Yep. They're so cool. All right, guys. Appreciate you coming on the podcast.

So until next week, Rome, Willie Dan and mainstay Dylan. We'll see you guys next week.

European Classics Under $10,000 —Why Do We Gravitate Towards Project Cars?

About this episode

Datsun

AC

Alfa Romeo

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from Analog and Grit Podcast