They’re discussing the F1 race weekend in Montreal. It’s a specific track on the F1 calendar, and the track’s layout affects how cars need to brake and grip the road.
In F1, “upgrades” are updates to the car—like new parts meant to make it faster. If upgrades work well, the team’s car can gain speed and confidence right away.
Downforce is the “squish” effect from the car’s shape that presses it onto the track. If the car loses downforce after damage, it has less grip and tends to be slower—especially in corners.
An upgrade package is a set of new parts the team brings to a race to make the car faster. The debate is whether those parts actually work as well as the team hoped, right away.
A sprint weekend is when F1 runs an extra, shorter race on Saturday. It changes the starting order for Sunday, and the tight schedule can make it harder to get everything perfectly dialed in.
The chassis is the car’s main structure. If a team already has the best chassis, it means the base “platform” is working really well, so extra upgrades might not help as much as they would on a less competitive car.
A power unit upgrade means the team is improving the car’s engine-and-energy system. In F1, that can boost speed and overall pace, not just cornering grip.
The simulator is a computer system teams use to model how the car will drive. If a driver thinks it’s misleading, they’re saying the real car isn’t matching what the simulator predicted.
In racing, a “simulation” is a computer model that tries to recreate how a car behaves using physics and data. The goal is not just to look realistic, but to match real-world behavior through model accuracy and correlation to track results. The hosts emphasize that sims can’t fully reproduce the cockpit’s visceral feedback.
Here, “correlate” means making the simulator match the real race car and track. If the sim is correlated, it predicts how the car will behave more like it does in real life. If it’s not correlated, the sim can be misleading even if it seems realistic.
An “engine model” in a racing sim represents how the power unit delivers torque and responds to throttle, revs, and drivetrain effects. It affects acceleration, traction, and how the car behaves when exiting corners. If the engine model is inaccurate, the sim can mis-predict gear choice, shift timing, and overall speed.
Term
arrow model
In this context, the “arrow model” is almost certainly the simulator’s aerodynamic model—how wings and body shape create downforce and drag. Aerodynamics determine how much grip the car has at speed and how it behaves in fast corners. Getting the aero model right is essential for matching real race-car balance and lap-time trends.
A “tire model” is the simulator’s mathematical representation of how tires generate grip and respond to load, slip, and temperature. Because tire behavior strongly affects braking, cornering, and acceleration, an accurate tire model is one of the hardest parts of making a sim match real-world lap times and feel. If the tire model is wrong, the car can understeer/oversteer differently than it does on track.
A “track model” is the simulator’s representation of the circuit geometry and surface characteristics. That includes things like corner radii, elevation changes, banking, and how the track affects tire grip over a lap. Even with perfect car physics, a poor track model can lead to mismatched braking points and cornering behavior.
Term
G
“G” is a measure of acceleration relative to gravity (1G is the acceleration due to gravity). In a race car, drivers experience high G-forces during braking, cornering, and acceleration, which strongly affects how the car feels and how the driver’s body responds. Simulators can approximate motion and cues, but they can’t fully replicate the physical G-load and cockpit sensations.
Balance refers to how the car behaves across the front and rear axles during braking, turning, and acceleration. Drivers describe it as whether the car feels neutral, too loose, or too tight, and it strongly affects lap time consistency.
The hosts are focusing on rivalries between teammates in the same F1 team. They’ll explain why those battles can become famous and how they differ from today.
An F1 engine can run in different “modes” depending on what the team wants—like more power or better efficiency. If a driver is accused of using the wrong mode, it usually means they may have been bending the rules to gain an advantage.
Concept
skullduggery
They’re using “skullduggery” to mean sneaky or questionable behavior. In this context, it’s about teammates doing things that feel unfair or not in the spirit of racing, which makes the rivalry get tense.
Concept
Monaco situation
They’re referencing a famous Monaco race moment where Rosberg’s actions looked like they might have been intentional. The point is that it made the rivalry feel more hostile—like it wasn’t just racing, but trying to send a message.
Team orders are when the team tells one driver to change how they’re racing relative to their teammate. It’s usually to help the team get the best result.
Race engineers are the engineers who work directly with the drivers during the race. They use live data to tell the driver what to do next—like how hard to push and how to handle the tires.
A championship battle means the season fight for the top ranking. When it’s close to the title, teams usually get stricter about how teammates race each other.
Term
outside the box
Here, “outside the box” means trying a different, less typical way to beat the other driver—usually by taking more creative risks.
The grid is where cars line up to start the race. If you move up the grid, you start nearer the front, which usually makes it easier to compete for the win.
Concept
getting under Lewis' skin
It means one driver is trying to mess with the other driver’s focus. If you throw their timing off or make them more tense, they’re more likely to lose a little speed or make a mistake.
Concept
out of his sort of steady state
It means the driver is no longer driving in their comfortable, repeatable rhythm. Once that happens, they can start reacting a bit slower and driving less smoothly, which costs time.
Concept
straight up fight
They mean a direct head-to-head battle on track. No special tricks—just racing each other as normal and seeing who’s faster.
“Toolbox” means all the different tactics a driver can use. The idea is that Rosberg didn’t rely on just one thing—he used many approaches to try to beat Hamilton.
Concept
rattle Lewis and slow him down
They’re talking about trying to throw off another driver’s flow. If you make their driving less smooth or consistent, they can lose time without you necessarily being faster every moment.
They’re talking about a rivalry between two teammates in F1. Since they drive for the same team, it’s a close comparison of driver skill.
Topic
Hamilton Alonso
They’re describing a big rivalry between two top drivers. The idea is that when teammates clash, it can affect the whole team’s ability to win.
Concept
driver team history
They’re talking about how the driver and team relationship fell apart. In F1, that kind of breakup can directly affect how well the car and strategy work together.
Qualifying decides where each car starts for the race. The Hungary reference is about a memorable qualifying incident that affected who could set a fast lap.
The pit lane is the lane next to the track where teams work on the cars. If someone is stuck there at the wrong time, it can stop another driver from getting a crucial fast lap.
“Spygate” was an F1 cheating scandal involving teams getting access to secret technical information. The big fine shows the sport treats it as a major rules violation.
The Dodge Challenger is a car built for strong acceleration and a sporty, loud driving feel. It’s known for having big engines, especially V8s, and it’s often talked about as a “challenger” because it’s meant to compete on performance.
Red Bull is a major Formula 1 team. When the show talks about Red Bull drivers, it’s referring to the team’s lineup and the tough teammate competition inside a top car.
F3 and F2 are lower-tier racing series that help young drivers prove themselves. If someone wins those championships, it usually means they’re ready for Formula 1.
Teammate rivalry means two drivers on the same team competing hard against each other. Since they’re in the same team, it’s a very direct comparison of who’s performing better.
The gearbox is what helps the car use the engine’s power efficiently. If it “fails,” the car can’t shift properly or deliver power, so the race is usually over.
Gravel is loose material near the track that slows you down if you go off course. In racing, hitting it usually means you lose control and can damage the car.
Term
TC
TC stands for traction control. It helps stop the wheels from spinning when the tires don’t have enough grip, so the car can accelerate more smoothly.
In F1, teammates are the two drivers who share the same car model and team resources within a constructor. Because they have similar equipment, teammate matchups (like qualifying head-to-heads) are often used to judge driver performance more fairly than comparing across different teams.
Qualifying deficit means how far behind one driver is compared to another in the qualifying session. If it’s “three to four seconds,” that’s a big gap in one-lap speed.
The “collision at Suzuka” refers to a decisive on-track incident at the Japanese Grand Prix venue, Suzuka Circuit. In F1, collisions between title contenders can swing the championship by changing points outcomes and triggering investigations or rule interpretations.
“Mind games” in Formula One are psychological tactics used to unsettle a rival—through comments, strategic positioning, or influencing how aggressively they push. Because championships are decided over many races, these tactics can be as important as outright lap time.
Concept
pressure cooker situation
In motorsport, a “pressure cooker situation” refers to the intense, high-stakes period when championship points are on the line. That kind of environment often changes driver behavior—risk tolerance rises, and rivalries can escalate into more aggressive tactics.
The FIA (Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile) is the governing body that oversees Formula One rules, stewarding, and disciplinary processes. The transcript suggests Prost used the FIA relationship as part of the rivalry, implying how official decisions and procedures can become part of the competitive chess match.
A restart is when the race stops and then begins again after an interruption. When it restarts, the order and momentum can shift, especially at the first corner.
In F1, the team principal is basically the team’s top boss. They help manage what the drivers do and how the team handles tense situations during a race weekend.
A chicane is a part of the track where the cars have to zig-zag through a tight section. It’s used to slow cars and make the driving more complicated there.
The front wing is the big wing on the front of an F1 car. It helps the car stick to the track by pushing air in a way that increases grip. If it breaks or gets moved to another car, the handling can change right away.
“Title contention” means a driver is realistically in the fight for the championship, not just racing for individual race results. When two teammates are both in title contention, any perceived unfairness—like a key part being swapped—can feel like it directly affects the championship outcome.
“Pole” means the driver starts the race from the very front because they were fastest in qualifying. It’s a big deal in F1, so when the team situation turns messy, it can make rivalries feel even sharper.
In F1 timing, “a tenth” refers to 0.1 seconds, so “half a tenth” is 0.05 seconds. Because qualifying and race pace can be separated by only small fractions of a second, even a tiny aerodynamic gain from a part like a front wing can be decisive.
Silverstone is a historic Formula 1 circuit in the UK, known for high-speed corners and heavy emphasis on aerodynamic efficiency and braking stability. Teammate rivalries can feel especially intense at major venues because both drivers may have strong personal motivation and fan attention.
Term
cool down room
The cool-down room is a post-session area in F1 where drivers and team members decompress and discuss what happened after qualifying or a race. It’s part of the team’s workflow, so arguments or accusations raised there can quickly become part of the rivalry narrative.
“Out of contract” means the driver’s current deal is ending soon. When that happens, it can change how the driver behaves because their next step is uncertain.
A driver briefing is a meeting before a session where the team explains the plan for the race or qualifying. It can also show how the team is thinking about each driver’s role.
“Spygate” was a major F1 controversy involving stolen or misused confidential information. McLaren was punished, and it changed how people viewed that season.
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All the great rivalries that we can think of that are, you know, intra-team are always
when they're battling for a championship.
They've all got a trigger point, haven't they?
In a way, it was a recipe for disaster putting those two together.
Any time you can say something in the media that might get under the skin of the other
guy, you use it.
I don't think you can manage a Rosberg Hamilton scenario any differently.
I think Mark started to feel that he was up against Sepp and his own team.
The one that I just remember the clearest was Hamilton Alonso and just blown away by
the level that it deteriorated to.
This all started because Alonso felt he'd been mugged off by Ron Dennis.
Let's do Senna Pros guys.
I was looking through the stats and I can't believe that this was even a rivalry.
Hello everyone and welcome to F1 Nation.
I'm Tom Clarkson and as usual, I have my teammates from F1 TV alongside me, former F1 driver
Jolien Palmer and IndyCar race winner James Hinchcliff.
Guys, very warm welcome to the show.
How are you both, first of all?
Very good TC, back from Miami, back to the cooler temperatures and back to another couple
of weeks off, aren't we, so back into the garden and getting ready for Montreal already.
The guard must be coming along nicely.
It's so good, Hinch.
Hinch, you've got less of a restful period ahead, I think.
Yeah, yeah, but well otherwise.
Obviously, back in Indianapolis now and it is well and truly the month of May and we've
got the Grand Prix coming up, we're on the road course here this weekend, but events
have already started, prep has already started, it's fully fledged, it's pretty flat out
from here until the 500 now.
Just before we get on to the meat of this show, J.P., you couldn't join us post-race
in Miami, so can we get your thoughts now?
When you look back at what happened last weekend, what was the biggest headline for you?
Well, I think there were two big ones, weren't there?
One, Antonelli, I thought it was a statement race from him, a statement weekend from him
to be that good.
I think we sort of previewed that he was going to be strong there, but I don't think we saw
him being that strong compared to George all weekend.
The other headline is, though, how good everyone else was as well, the McLarens, the Ferraris
and pretty much everyone that brought upgrades found the right amount of pace or more than
I think we expected, but like a really good amount.
There wasn't anyone really scratching their heads with the new parts on the cars, so it
made it pretty intense and I really enjoyed the Grand Prix.
Hench, I would counter that by saying Ferrari might be a little bit disappointed after what
they achieved or didn't achieve in Miami.
They brought more upgrades to their car than anybody else, and of course, then we had the
Charlotte Claire spin on the final lap.
Do you agree with me?
Do you think Ferrari will be head scratching back in Maranello?
I mean, here's the thing, if you take the Leclerc spin out of it, running for a podium
contention till the final lap, Hamilton's race was compromised lap one from the Colopinto
contact and losing a significant amount of downforce and damage to the car.
The results will be disappointing, certainly, but I think that they can take a lot of positives
still away from the weekend.
Was the upgrade package the instant, second faster they wanted it to be?
No, probably not, but in a sprint weekend, it's so hard to maximize and optimize everything.
So, yeah, a result, probably a little bit disappointing, but I don't think all is lost
there just yet.
They also, they led half the Grand Prix or nearly half the Grand Prix, didn't they?
And if you think back to the sprint, Leclerc was actually hounding Piastri for the second
part of that.
So the pace for a lot of it seemed pretty good.
And also, we mentioned it before Miami, they already have a bit of the best chassis.
So upgrades for the best car are not going to be as effective as upgrades for everyone
else, basically.
So what they need is a power unit upgrade, and then I think we'll see how good their
car really is.
All they need to turn up to maybe Canada, certainly Monaco.
There was one interesting comment Hamilton made on Sunday night, which was that he said
he's being misled by the simulator back in Maranello.
I don't know what you guys make of that.
Charlotte Clair doesn't say the same thing about about the sim.
There seems to be a sort of correlation issue between the sim and the human rather than,
you know, the sim and the car itself.
It's very plausible.
It's I've been there.
I've had that experience before.
You know, ultimately, a simulation is just that.
It's a it's a simulation.
It's not the real thing.
And I think it's actually easier, as challenging as it is, and it is very challenging to get
the tire model, the arrow model, the engine model, the track model, all the different
elements that you have to get right in the simulator to try and get it to correlate
while to the racetrack.
The one thing you cannot do is replicate the feeling of a race car from inside the cockpit.
You can have it move around the room and simulate a fraction of the G that you actually feel
in the car.
Fine.
But it's not going to talk to you.
It's not going to really give you that that visceral feedback in the same way.
So I've certainly had situations in the past.
I don't know, JP, if you've had it to where the car felt a certain way in the sim and
that same setup when put on, you know, the actual race car just kind of gave it a different feeling.
A thousand percent.
But I do think sims have come on a long way since even even sort of the last nine years.
And then the idea is that they can get really, really close now.
But also for the for the drivers, sometimes your each driver is different as well to how
they're feeling grip and how they're feeling balance through their core, their hands, their
feet, all the parts.
And if Charles finding it OK, and his performance is stronger than Lewis at the moment, obviously
with new parts coming on, fellow Lewis closed the gap through the Miami weekend.
But initially, there was quite a solid gap on the Friday.
So maybe that is an indication that that Charles is happier and the sim is kind of
or his driving isn't as badly correlated between sim and track.
Right, guys, let's get into the bulk of the show.
All right, we're going to talk teammate rivalries.
Kimmy Antonelli leads George Russell at the top of the World Championship standings by
20 points after the opening four rounds.
McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari made big steps forward in Miami.
We've just established that and they could yet join the fight with Mercedes as the season
progresses. But at the very least, it looks like we've got an intra team title battle
on our hands at Mercedes Antonelli versus Russell.
And with a bit of a break between Miami and Montreal, I thought it'd be a good chance
to take a look at the greatest teammate rivalries in F1 history.
What made them so iconic and how different are they to some of the rivalries we see today?
Now, I'm going to go first and I'm going to serve up Hamilton versus
Rosberg at Mercedes 2013 to 2016.
Although I feel the rivalry only really kicked in in 2014, 2013.
I seem to remember it was, you know, the last year of the V8s and Hamilton was
betting in at the team.
Of course, Rosberg had been there a wee while already.
But in 2014, it really started to kick off.
And I feel that the moment that it teed off was at Monaco 2014.
I don't know if you remember it, guys, but we're into the final bit of qualifying
and Rosberg just runs wide at Mirabeau and brings out the yellow flag,
which prevents Hamilton from getting a clean lap at the end of qualifying.
Rosberg starts on pole and away we go.
And then it seemed to just amplify from there.
And there's all sorts of other moments I could mention.
Barcelona 2016, when they crashed on the opening lap.
What do you guys think was the reason behind that level of...
I think animosity is the word.
By the end of it, I think it was animosity.
Just looking from the outside in, what did you guys make of that?
The first thing I think that's pretty obvious to me is the difference between
2013 and 2014. What's the difference?
They're fighting for a title.
So the fact that Hamilton came into Mercedes in 2013 and outscored Rosberg.
Yeah, great. You know, he was a big signing.
It was a coup for Mercedes to get in.
But it was close enough, as you said, they both won races.
Happy days. We get on well.
We're old mates. Brilliant.
As soon as one of them will be champion and the other one's not champion,
the stakes just get raised so high.
So that's the first big thing that happens across the board, I think.
I remember the Bahrain race in 2014 because that was a brilliant race, wasn't it?
It was the jewel in the desert. We've spoken about it already this year.
And that, for me, set the tone between them because it was the one they were hugs
afterwards, brilliant fight.
And then it emerged that I think Rosberg had been using some sort of frowned upon
engine modes in the race to attack Hamilton.
And it was the start of things, a little bit of skullduggery going on between
teammates that before you have one of these like Eureka moments of like, hang on,
that's not ethical in the battle that we're doing.
It can be harmonious if fierce.
As soon as you think someone is actually taking extra measures that you're not yet
prepared to go to, could be risking a crash, could be the Monaco situation
with with Rosberg, where he sort of looked like he went off potentially deliberately there.
Any of these sort of things.
And you think, war, that was one below the belt and the tension start to rise.
I think I think JP nailed it.
You know, the only thing that matters to racing drivers is winning.
So these little squabbles, these, you know, one driver did something, maybe, you know,
a bit below the belt to a to a teammate.
They happen up and down the grid on most teams at some point in every season.
But the only time when you really hear about it is when it's at the front,
because if it's over sixth place, yeah, you're annoyed and it might might temporarily,
you know, sour relations between the drivers.
But at the end of the day, you're not there to finish sixth.
But it's all the great rivalries that we can think of that are, you know,
intra team are always when they're battling for a championship.
I'm sure there have been epic ones, but you were battling for 10th.
It just doesn't it doesn't feel the same for the driver.
It doesn't carry the same weight.
So I completely agree that it's it's such a function of, you know,
we're on the grid that that you're racing.
And I think some people are willing to to do more than others.
And what's interesting in those situations is how that other driver responds.
The one that makes that first blow, are you willing to step up?
And then also kind of maybe go against your your morals
and what you would have done had somebody not drawn first blood.
What's the team's role in all of this?
Because Taito Wolf has said quite recently, actually,
that he thinks he mismanaged the relationship between Hamilton and Rosberg.
The team by trying to keep things even, sometimes just exacerbates the problem.
And I look at McLaren last year, actually, with with Piazzari and Norris.
They were trying so hard to keep things level that they ended up almost tripping over themselves.
And let's look at look at Monza trying to sort of keep it fair.
But almost by keeping it fair, you're forgetting that racing isn't always fair, right?
Sport isn't always fair.
Sometimes you don't get the rubber, the green, and that's just the way it goes.
They sort of got away with it, didn't they, McLaren, because they won the championship.
They won both championships.
So they were spinning plates the whole way through the season.
And it must have given them so much extra work that the other teams weren't having to do.
Imagine you're you're on the McLaren pit wall and you're thinking,
Oh, do we swap these guys back? Do we not?
You've got probably Zach and Andrea Stella in communication with the race engineers.
How much communication?
How much thought process is going on to how you manage those races?
The start in Singapore, you've got Norris sort of barging his way past Piazzari.
Again, McLaren was spending the early part of that race
looking through their own teammates, a little bit of contact.
And they gave themselves a massive headache.
But in the end, because they got away with it, I feel like it's probably a case study
of how it was quite well handled, ultimately, because we're into the next year
and the drivers are still harmonious, although they're not yet in the championship battle.
But I just think it's I think it's so difficult.
It depends on the personalities you've got, doesn't it?
And I think McLaren, both of those guys, neither of them had a championship.
Both of them needed the team on board to take the championship.
Whereas when you look through some of the big ones in the past,
you're dealing with at least one guy that's already a champion.
And it becomes way harder if the other guy is ready to roll up his sleeves
and do a little bit more to take the championship.
So if you take Hamilton and Rosberg, you got Hamilton more talented than Rosberg.
It's tough to argue any other way.
But Rosberg then throwing everything at him because he just thinks to hell with the team.
If I ever want to beat this guy, I have to start.
I have to start thinking outside the box and doing some of the other stuff.
So that's where it becomes impossible to manage.
I think what could Toto really do in that position?
Just on the McLaren thing, let's suppose for a second that
the McLaren end up with the same advantage that they had last year.
And we have Norris versus Piastri take two in 2026.
I think it's not going to happen because Mercedes are too quick, etc.
But just suppose for a second that happens, do you think Piastri and Norris
would approach the championship in the same way they did last year?
Would would Piastri be as benign this time around?
That's so this interesting because they're now in a different position, aren't they?
Norris is now a champion.
Piastris had that experience of fighting for a title
and maybe they wouldn't be both as subservient as they were to McLaren last year.
Maybe they wouldn't.
Maybe they would because the relationship is still there.
But maybe we will find out at some point, T.C.
But you know, characters, even if you take other people,
if you take Nico Rosberg earlier in his career or Lewis Hamilton earlier in his career,
would they have raced things differently with the experience
and the sort of fight that they ended up having at their stage when they were at Mercedes?
No, I think you nailed it in the first answer.
It purely comes down to personality.
I think I think McLaren lucked out that the two very talented drivers
that they picked also happened to have the personalities that they did.
I don't think you can manage a Rosberg Hamilton scenario any differently.
I think ultimately the driver's desire to win a world championship is going to,
it's going to overcome whatever barriers you put or bumpers in the bowling alley,
you put up to try to keep them going in the right direction.
I think Lando and Oscar are just different human beings and different personalities and say,
because I know we're going to get into some other ones, I won't jump ahead.
But some of these other rivalries that are going to come up,
you look at the personalities and there's no way you can tell me that's the same kind of guy as
Oscar or as Lando.
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Actually, guys, if you look at the rest of the grid, and let's say Mercedes have a big car of
advantage, they're going to win the title, if you could put any one of the teammate pairings
as having the best car that one of them will win the title.
Which pairing do you think would create on paper the most difficult to manage situation?
Right. There's a common denominator here. I think Leclerc Hamilton would kick off,
if they would go. And I think there's a ferocious competitiveness in Lewis that just
leaves no stone unturned. And I'm not saying he's dirty in any way, but just that level of
ferocious competitiveness would, I think, end up leading to trouble.
And there's a bit of ego there as well. There's ego in everyone. But I think if you've got to
not be accepting second place, haven't you? You've got to be thinking I'm the best. This is my title.
It's completely what I was thinking. Leclerc Hamilton, you've got a guy that's 1-7.
You've got a generational talent that hasn't yet won one. I don't think, back to what Hinch said,
I don't think there's a way that Fred could manage it if they're even on pace and they have the best
car like that. And so, Toto, we had examples of, Nika Rosberg said that they had to foot the bill
after Barcelona or, you know, some incidents. Toto said maybe we should have benched them for a race
and that was the last threat. Well, he's never going to get to after Barcelona and say, right,
we're going to put in two reserved drivers. You can't put one reserved driver in. How unfair is
that? So, these things are pie in the sky. They're not doable when you're actually in position there.
On top of that, you've got all sorts of contracts in place. So, I just think ultimately, if the
characters are there, it's unavoidable for a team principal.
Do all racing drivers, Hinch, have a similar desire to be champion? That sounds a stupid question,
I know, but some guys are there because they just love driving and I think other people are there
because they love the competition and it's the latter category that causes the problems, right?
But do you agree with me that some want it more than others or is that just too much of a sweeping
statement? No, I think some want it more than others. I think they all want it. I think that's
what gets you up in the morning, right? In F1 especially, it's so hard to win, right? You have
to be on one of two, maybe three teams. So, if you're on one of the other, you know, seven or eight
teams, it's hard to motivate in the morning if your sole motivation is winning, right? Because
you know you've got no chance to win. You have to kind of recalibrate your brain to think,
well, my win today is an eighth and then that hopefully gives me the opportunity to move up
the grid and eventually be in a car that can fight for a win. So, every driver wants to win
first and foremost. But yeah, there are some that are willing to do things and push the limits and
the boundaries, I think, more than others. It's not a difference in desire. I think it's a difference
in what you're willing to essentially sacrifice to get there.
Is it a bit of morals as well? A bit of like your racing ethics?
Yes, I really do. And I think that the Rossburg Hamilton example is a great one. And you know,
you obviously go back to Prost and Senna and I think that comes up a couple of times. We've
seen Michael Schumacher make some very questionable decisions on the racetrack when a championship
was on the line. Not every driver would do that. Not saying it's right or wrong, good or bad,
but I do think there's a discrepancy between how far certain drivers are willing to go.
I think that Hamilton Rossburg year showed us as well a great example of that. You had Rossburg
chipping away any possible time he could, he was getting under Lewis' skin. And bearing mind,
he was kind of the inferior driver in terms of talent. The fact that he brewed up this rivalry
probably helped him in trying to make something get under Lewis' skin and make it more difficult
for him. Anytime you can get your opponent's concentration or get him out of his sort of
steady state, that's going to be a good thing. And on the other side, you had Lewis on the final lap,
or the final laps, going against Paddy Lowe on the pit wall, slowing down the whole field.
And these were lengths that I don't think a lot of other drivers would do. I think a little bit
like we saw Max last year, not do that. Max 2021, would. Max 2025, wouldn't. And is a pretty clear
examples, I think, of the mentality. And obviously, if you would, again, it's impossible to manage,
I think. There's a relentlessness to Nico Rossburg, isn't there? I mean, I love Nico. I've known him
for years. I used to write his press releases for him when he was in Formula 3, that kind of thing.
But when I ran the marathon a couple of weeks ago, the only text I got from him was
can't believe you let Vettel beat you. That was it. He's got high hopes for you, TC. That was the
good thing. But I thought that was that. I mean, he was joking, obviously, but I thought that was
actually a great insight into the mentality of Nico Rossburg. Can you imagine being his teammate
where it's just relentless the whole time? He won't let anything go. He won't give up. He won't
he won't just turn the page. It's all about winning. And that's where you have to give Nico
so much credit because he was up against Lewis Hamilton. 99.9% of Formula 1 drivers can't beat
Lewis Hamilton in a straight up fight at that time in his career. And he managed to do it by
utilizing all of these tools, everything in the toolbox, even some tools that other people
wouldn't have been willing to do. He saw that was his opportunity. It took absolutely everything
out of him to the point where he was like, I'm done. I can't go through that again. It's almost
like he didn't he didn't even enjoy it. He didn't enjoy it, right? He was so focused on winning that
he had no opportunity to enjoy it. And it was miserable to be in that scenario, to have to
sacrifice everything, to have to have every waking minute of not only how can I beat him,
how can I slow him down, how can I make his life worse? Because it wasn't just his focus wasn't
just solely on him because because I agree with you, Joey. He was not as quick. He wasn't as
total. It was complete a racing driver. So to beat Lewis, you had to do more. You had to go
above and beyond. So his effort wasn't even just on making himself better. It was every minute he
could, but there was also an element of how can I rattle Lewis and slow him down? He's just a
tenacious person, isn't he? Yeah. Imagine for our newer listeners who weren't watching in 2016,
but have watched recent years, Nico Rosberg, the pundit. Imagine being on the other side of the
garage of that guy who holds everyone to account. You can't get away with a soft answer. You know,
he's difficult. And you know, ultimately, that can really be a skill and it was for him to win a
championship. Very good point. Right. That's Hamilton Rosberg. Hinch, what have you got for us?
Give us another rivalry. The one that I just remember the clearest because I was old enough
and in the sport enough to really get it and just blown away by the level that it deteriorated to
was Hamilton Alonso. That one for me, it's just such a good story. You've got the two-time champ
who's moved over to McLaren. You've got the rookie, the prodigy coming up through the ranks.
There was no world in which Alonso thought that this guy was going to hassle him for the title.
And you want to talk about Tenacious and willing to do anything to win. Fernando Alonso's face is
going to be in the dictionary next to Tenacious. And the level of Skull Duggery and Tom Fulery
that followed was unbelievable to the point where it was the most spectacular divorce in
driver team history at the end of the season. And ultimately, their rivalry and their inability
to play well together cost them the title, cost McLaren a driver's championship. So,
to me, that one was just an unbelievable display. It's one of the old-time stories,
isn't it? And also, imagine on the receiving end of that, you've got Ron Dennis at McLaren,
one of the hardest taskmasters that Formula One team principal's seen, and he can't control a
Fernando Alonso news signing, a Lewis Hamilton rookie partnership. I bet Ron could not imagine
how that was going to go when he signed Lewis at the start of the year. But again, it shows you've
got Toto, you've got Ron, two old-timers, especially Ron at that stage. And if the drivers want it
badly enough, you can sack him at the end of the year, you can do what you like. But you can't stop
things blowing up like this. Well, this all started because Alonso felt he'd been mugged off by Ron
Dennis. He thought he was coming in as the number one driver. And as, I mean, from almost lap one
of the first race, it became apparent that Hamilton was his equal from the get-go. And so,
suddenly, there was no number one status. And it very quickly spiraled out of control. And we were
left in Hungary. Who can forget qualifying in Hungary when Alonso just sat in the pit lane so
that his teammate couldn't get a final lap in? And then from there, the Spygate $100 million fine.
I mean, it was one of the most spectacular seasons in F1 history.
So I think you've got another textbook. Why does a rivalry blow up? Number one, a championship on
the line. Number two, old, older hand experienced driver has young upstar coming up against him.
So if you take a load of rivalries from there, it's actually pretty rare that the young hot shoe
doesn't do a great job against the experienced hand. So you've got Vettel v. Weber, similar story.
Vettel coming up, gets under Weber's skin, beats him, difficult. Then you've got Ricardo v. Vettel,
you've got Leclerc v. Vettel, Verstappen v. Ricardo. Loads of teammate rivalries are
young hot shoe who everyone thinks is a supreme talent, finally gets a shot in the top team,
and is wickedly quick. An established guy can't quite handle it. And then you have this clash.
And I was actually thinking, can we even name many drivers where the established guy just sees
off the young challenger, who we all think is that good? It's quite difficult to come up with names
of the establishment that's succeeded against the young hot shoe. David Hill, Jacques Villeneuve,
96. Different case. Different case, I think. He wasn't an F2 driver coming up. He was already an
Indy card champion. And he's a rookie. It's a good shout, but it's... Hacking and cool thought,
McLaren. Senna Hacking and McLaren. So we're going back a long way though, aren't we? We're
always straight into the 90s, guys. We're all into the 90s. Here's what I think is a big part
of that. And I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it. The rookie comes in with so much less
expectation. And expectation can be the seed of disappointment, right? I think when you are the
established driver, that expectation, that weight, that pressure is so much greater than a rookie
coming in being like, everyone thinks he's fast. Everyone's supporting of him being there, but
he's going to take a couple of years to learn and the experience of a list all those other drivers
out will ultimately reign supreme over the course of the season. When you can drive free from that
kind of expectation, I think drivers perform better. And I think being the chaser is in that
kind of scenario is easier than being the chase. We always talk about in a championship battle,
you'd rather have the lead and not be the chaser necessarily. But I think when it comes to
global expectation and the pressure that comes with that, there are just so many examples of
young drivers that can come in that have been told, you're good, we believe in you, but no pressure
to perform at a crazy high level this year. You can just kind of come in and do your thing as a
driver. Whereas when you're the established guy and there's a young guy that's trying to
dethrone you and take that mantle, immediately there's an extra element of pressure that you're
dealing with that the other driver isn't. The Villeneuve example is actually pretty good because
he came in as a rookie into a top team. So in recent years, I was thinking, right, let's say
since even 2000, you've got Hamilton and Bottas. So Bottas replaces Rosberg, I was a few years at
Williams. People saw him as a bit of a hot shoe, gets the Mercedes shot, but Hamilton absolutely
dispatches him. Obviously you've got the whole run of red bull drivers since Verstappen. So
Gasly, maybe people thought was going to be a bit of a challenge. Hadjar now, I think in between,
you've got Perez and Sonoda maybe weren't quite as well touted. Albon, yeah. Yeah, Albon, exactly.
Another one had a quick rise. So Verstappen saw them off, but these are like Hamilton and Verstappen,
top, top line drivers who were able to beat obviously drivers who were not yet proven.
The other one is Norison Piastri. So you've got Piastri, F3 champ, F2 champ, gets to Formula
1, has the title shot and actually Norris dug in so deep, but held him back last year, which felt
like a seminal moment in there. Obviously one of them is a champion now and in their teammate rivalry
as well. The fact that Norris stopped the charge of Piastri. So moving it forward, you've got Antonelli
Russell. Number one, they're fighting for a title. Number two, young Kimmy Antonelli second year up
against George Russell. And hence, I feel like this is another time where it's a huge season,
particularly for Russell, to see if he can be one of these outliers that holds off a
prodigious young talent. But he's got that pressure, right? He's got everything that you
described that creates these scenarios, these really fractured team scenarios is what we're
looking at. Established guy with the pressure and expectation of being the champion, young
upstart with tons of potential, but still kind of given some leeway in a car capable of fighting
for a title. It could be blockbuster. And how the young upstart, if he doesn't win the title,
bounces back. I look back to Hamilton in this 2007 scenario alongside Alonso. Hamilton was
leading that championship by 17 points with two races to go and he loses it. Equally,
Oscar Piastri last year. He was, what, 34 points ahead just after the summer break
and he loses it. Hamilton then comes back and wins the title in 2008. Where we see Piastri go
from here, I think he'll be fascinating. How he bounces back. I think he's resilient enough
to do that. He obviously just needs the right car. But still, I'm watching Piastri with
fascination to see how he copes with the disappointment last year.
They fell away for different reasons, didn't they? I mean, Hamilton was literally in the
gravel in Shanghai and then his gearbox failed in Brazil. So you could pinpoint two unlucky
reasons. I mean, you could argue the Shanghai one either way, whereas Piastri lost it for a run of
form really. So there's a slight difference in that. But in the similarities, these youngsters
just come out just swinging for the fences. And a bit like Kimmy right now, every weekend it's a
bonus. Yeah, I'll win another race. Wow, this is going really well. Same with Oscar last year.
You come out, this is Lando's title, Lando wins the first race and then hang on. I'm all right.
Hang on, we're going on a big run now. I'm a championship leader. What? I'm suddenly fighting
for something. You've got nothing to lose in this situation. And as you say, TC, Hamilton then went
to go and be a seven-time world champion, but the next year a champion. Piastri's got a lot of time
left in his career to actually convert a championship. And if Antonelli misses this year,
oh, he'll be a 19-year-old multiple race winner with a championship in him at some point. If Russell
misses this year, it'll be way harder to stomach, particularly if Antonelli is the champion. That
will be tough because it will feel like all of the Mercedes momentum will stop with Russell and it
will go towards Antonelli as the future guy. Well, JP, what have you got for us when it comes to
rivalries? What is a standout one for you? Well, let's do centerpros, guys, because this one for
me was, right, disclaimer, I was born in 1991. So when they were teammates, I was not alive.
But it's such a well-famed story. And because I was looking into this in anticipation for this pod,
I've just looked through their time as teammates. Two years, 1988, 1989. And TC, you probably know
better than me this era. But I was looking through the stats and I can't believe that this was even
a rivalry because you've got Etten Center out qualifying Alan Prost 14-2 in 1988 and he wins
the championship. He does the same in 1989. He out qualifies Prost 14-2. In his run coming through
to McLaren, he's barely had a teammate. Johnny Dumfries and Satoru Nakajima, do you know what
their average qualifying deficit was to center? I've had a lot of fun doing this, right? Yeah.
It's somewhere between three and four seconds per lap. What does that debrief look like?
Well, Satoru, how can you go quicker? What do you need from the car?
We're just looking for like a second to corner, please, mate. I mean, so Center's arriving to McLaren.
He's saying he was an unknown quantity when he came to McLaren.
And he's never really had a teammate.
What do you need from the car?
It's the best stat you've ever discovered. I had a lot of fun doing that. I had a lot of fun having a look.
JP, it raises a really interesting point, doesn't it? So you've got Center arrives in 1988. He's
never really had a proper teammate. And then he's up against Prost.
So Center arrives to McLaren in 1988. He's never had a proper teammate.
Mate, you're going to have to start this chat with a different one.
Oh, this is one for the outtakes, real. Okay.
Oh, man.
So you got Center arriving to McLaren.
I just can't look at the screen. I can't look at the screen.
Okay. So you've got Center arriving to McLaren in 1988. He's never had a proper teammate in
Formula One. He's up against a multiple world champion already. And the matchup is just fascinating
because basically he's just ruthlessly quick and he's a lot quicker than Prost.
Wins the title in 1988 and then it all blows up, doesn't it? So in this case,
you've got Young Hotshu coming through looking really good. And then it all happens in 1989.
I look through and Center seems to be really unlucky in this year as well. He looks a bit
stronger than Prost and it comes down to the wire in Japan and we know the outcome of it.
But it's another indication of the professor, Alan Prost, trying to do everything he could
to get under the skin of fundamentally a faster driver.
Well, that's what I loved about Prost though, JP, was that he realized he couldn't hold a
candle to Center over one lap. So he never tried. It was all about Sundays for him.
And as a result, he was able to keep the championship going till the end of the year.
And in 1989, of course, he gets that championship after the collision at Suzuka.
It's a great point, JP, because the real sort of shenanigans kind of didn't start till
Center had that first championship. And I wonder if even Prost knew what he was capable of and
how far he was willing to push the boundaries, the ethical boundaries before that time. Is this
something that drivers had kind of been doing their whole junior career as well? And there were
examples of it that maybe we just don't know about. Or do you think when you're in that
pressure cooker situation, championship on the line, refusing to lose, that's when
it just sort of comes out? You've got sort of mind games in this as well, haven't you?
So it's in the interest of the guy that's fundamentally not as quick to do things differently,
to try and make, you know, force the rivalry, try and close the field.
And this is almost where Prost was kind of using the FIA relationship, right? Because that was a
big part of the mind game part of it with them. Precisely. And obviously, that went against Center
in 1989. And you have that in the back of your mind if you're, Center did at the time. And I just
yeah, if you're in that position, you're Nico Rosberg, you're Alain Prost, you're a really
thinking calculated driver. You're a very fast driver, but probably, well, you're definitely not
as fast as these absolute goats alongside you, Hamilton or Center. So you start to pull everything
back into your skill set. And anytime you can say something in the media that might get under the
skin of the other guy, you use it. You use that as an opportunity every time. And Fernando is
another driver that's always had this in his locker in his career. Obviously, in 2007, it was
the start of the sort of political side that we saw of Fernando. But you feel like every time he
speaks to the media, he knows what he wants to get out of it. And I think with some of these
rivalries, as the tensions rise, you sometimes want to get underneath the other guy's skin. You
don't want to just have a straightforward media session. You want to think if I can have a little
poke here, a jab there, unsettle them somehow, it starts to level the skill set out. And maybe
he'll get to the grid and he'll be more worried about me in second than this or that. And sometimes
we've even seen that with Max and Lando in their championship battle in 24 and other non-teammate
rivalries as well. And it was ethics where that was the reason that it actually fell to pieces
between Center and Prost. And Imela in 1989, Prost had proposed that whoever was leading into turn
one should stay in front for the opening lap of the race. There was, of course, that big accident
of Gerhard Berger's. So there was a restart. And Prost got to the first corner first. Center
overtook him on lap one. And that was the trigger point for all the animosity that followed. Now,
you could argue, I think that Prost was just playing games with the team and playing games
with Center. Why would Center want to agree to a stipulation that you don't overtake on lap one?
Because maybe it was because Prost thought, well, he's faster than me. So I've got to think of
every reason to keep him behind me. And then when it didn't happen, of course, it all exploded. And
then what I find extraordinary about this relationship is that even when they weren't
teammates in 1990, Prost, of course, went to Ferrari. It ended at turn one at Suzuka at the
end of that year, which ultimately gifted Center the world championship. But even when they weren't
teammates, it's still boiled over. They've all got a trigger point, haven't they? All of these
rivalries. We mentioned, I think Monaco was won in the Alonso Hamilton year as well,
where Lewis was told to hold position. And there was a sort of tenseness about Alonso there,
thinking he had it under control anyway, and this and that. You've got the 2016 and 2014 examples
of the Mercedes duo. And that Imola one as well, you always have something where one of the guys
is like, hang on, that's not quite how I thought we were playing it. So maybe that was Prost,
think he was completely wronged by Center who passed him and they had this gentleman's code.
Maybe it was Center on the other hand thinking, hang on, why would I agree to
follow you bearing in mind you're at the front? And that doesn't make any sense,
his experienced hand playing his cards. So you've got all of these things. And when you have then
a championship on the line as well in all of these examples, what does small tensions become
massive tensions? I think an interesting point as well is that when you talk about team managers,
team principals having to manage these situations, one of the most difficult things
to manage is a driver in the heat of the moment. So the fewer stipulations you put,
the fewer rules that are in place, I think the better. If that rule of whoever leads into turn
one wins the race, if that doesn't exist, then Prost can't be mad when Center passes him,
at least not in the same way. So I think when you're dealing with these types of scenarios,
almost the best way to manage it is to step back and kind of let them do their thing.
Yes, there's the golden rule, you can't hit each other, there should be repercussions for that,
team first, all that stuff. But I think as soon as you try to over manipulate or over manufacture
it, and this is where McLaren kind of flirted with that line, I think a few times last year,
I think that's where it gets a little bit trickier. Because if those rules don't exist to be broken,
then no one can feel wronged by somebody else breaking the rule.
Yes, sometimes you can over complicate things, can't you? I'm interested,
TC, do you remember when DC and Micah Hacken and then were at McLaren title fighting?
I watched over the winter your memory box series with DC and he was going through and he mentioned
the 1998 first race where they had this agreement. You've still got Ron Dennis as the boss who was
there the decade before with Center and Prost, and they've kind of come up with the same agreement
again in Melbourne for the season opener. So suddenly you've got Coulthard in the lead of the
race, and he has to wave Hacken and back through again for the win. And he said that that makes
a massive psychological difference on you. And then Hacken and became a double world champion,
and Coulthard at that point becomes kind of the second driver, always punching against driver,
the opposition driver, your teammate and the team. So it's another case of
sort of kind of difficult management. It worked out, I guess, for McLaren,
because they won the championships that year, but it's not great for the second driver.
Well, and talking of management just back to Center Prost, Julian Jacoby was managing
Allian Prost, Andette and Center at the same time when it was all breaking down between them.
I had to have been a fly on the wall, wasn't it? Wow, somebody was in this.
Can you imagine being a fly on the wall of some of the conversations? You know,
I'd imagine he's inchatting to Center and then five minutes later, he's in with Prost. He said,
she said, all this kind of stuff, it must have been incredibly difficult for him to manage quite
literally. Well, how do you do that? Because you must always have one driver thinking that
there's a preference for the other one. So, I mean, he must have some unbelievable negotiating
skills to do that in such an intense rivalry, because, you know, you're always going to think
a little bit like last year, McLaren ran the risk of Oscar thinking that seems behind Lando,
or vice versa. But, you know, where you see every little thing is swap the positions in Monza, or
you know, the repercussions after Singapore, or after Austin, or all of these little things,
and you think, hang on, that's not fair, or that's not fair. But imagine if that's your
manager, who's your personal manager, who's also looking after the other guy, you think, hang on,
if my own manager's not in my corner, then really, what are we doing here?
Well, because the manager's role, right, is to argue with the team if there seems to be some
sort of imbalance. That's really hard to do. It's the same guy, and you were in a situation
where there was already, you know, the perception that Ron was favoring Senna, right? There's, of
course, the whole protest against Prost's win in Suzuka because of what happened at the chicane
in the Marshalls and all the rest of it. So, you've got one driver already thinking that the
team's against him, and then the manager, whose job it is to try to, you know, smooth that over
and make that better, well, he's also, he's also representing the other guy. That was a situation
that was just destined to fail. I wonder if Ron Dennis and Julian Jacoby have a good relationship,
because that either goes, oh, he's happy with everything, or every race Julian Jacoby's there
with a problem, hey, you wronged Senna, next race, hey, you wronged Prost, and he's like, what,
how do I play this out? Yeah, the phone rings and Ron just sees it's Julia, like, oh, not again,
which one is he, he upset about today? Yeah.
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Finally, JP, I think it was you who mentioned Vettel Webber, teammates from 2009 to 2013 at
Red Bull. One of the great modern rivalries, wasn't it? Just it very quickly broke down.
I think of Turkey 2010 when they crashed. I think of Silverstone 2010, the same year, not bad for a
number two driver. Malaysia 2013, multi-21, the list goes on. Why do you think that
broke down to the extent it did? Well, example was the young hot shoe and the experienced guy,
but also there, it's a little bit like we were talking about before, where I think Mark
started to feel that he was up against Seb and his own team in 2010 particularly. So the incident
in Turkey, you had Vettel coming across on Webber, they had contact fighting for the leader of the
race, and Mark was very adamant that it was Seb's fault. And I think he was frustrated
that the team didn't completely agree and put that on Vettel. And then you had a couple of races
later, you had Vettel had a, was it an incident in practice or just a faulty, the new front wing
that failed, and they only had one other. And they took it from Mark Webber's car and put it
on Sebastian Vettel's car. Can you imagine that? I mean, that would be an outcry if it happened
nowadays. But you know, that's difficult for a teammate in title contention to have. And I
think they said it was worth about half a tenth, Vettel put it on pole, Webber won the race, not
bad for a number two driver, but you would feel like a number two driver. You literally are a
number two driver at that point when you're at Silverstone, it's neither driver's home race,
and the new part gets taken off your car and put on the other guy's car, you're both in title
contention, neither of you have won a championship before, brutal. So I'm not surprised at that one,
that one flared up from at least that moment on. And again, you know, the one that I always look
at the multi-21, it's a rule that was broken, right? By setting a rule, you gave a driver a
chance to break it, and then that leaves the other driver feeling wronged. So I think all those
things kind of contribute. There was a lot of different things in that situation, because to
your point about that wing, I mean, drivers already have a certain degree of paranoia,
right, about whether the team's favoring the other side of the garage. When something like that
happens, it's no longer paranoia, it's confirmed. And now you do feel like you're not just up against
your teammate, you are up against the whole team. And then he's got, you know, freedom to break these
rules that the team has made really without, you know, seemingly without repercussion. So
that was probably a better example of a poorly managed situation that allowed the rivalry to
become quite as contentious as it was. The great thing for us fans watching on is that Mark Webber
says what he thinks and allows these things to be just brought up in the open, deal with it matter
of factly, multi-21 sep in the, in the cool down room. There's no, like we'll talk about it afterwards,
it was just a hammer blow. That wasn't what we agreed for the world to see. But I think what
we're saying here is no team orders, right, is the way to keep team harmony. And I think in every
example here, the instigating part comes from an instruction from the team that's not followed.
So whether it's Bahrain, a bit of engine tweaking from Rosberg, the holding positions in Monaco
that started the catalyst for Hamilton and Alonso, the Senna, Prost, Imola moment,
all of these ones, it's, it's a team order rather than a sort of natural fight where they figure
it out. But this is where you have to give Piastri a lot of credit. Because in Monza,
that could have been taken as one of those scenarios where it was confirmation that the
team was in Orlando's corner and not his. And, and he didn't let it spiral and he didn't let
it get to him, at least not publicly, in the super, you know, outward-facing way.
So I think Oscar does deserve a fair amount of credit for how 2025 developed. Because ultimately,
if they don't swap those positions back, they do lose the championship. So it was the right move
from McLaren. And hopefully in hindsight, that also, you know, makes it a little bit easier for
Oscar to take as well. But again, I think credit where credit is due there, he played a big part
in keeping it harmonious.
And the fascinating dynamic there is you've got Mr. No Nonsense, Mark Webber in his corner.
So all of these years on, playing it out from the sidelines.
Mellowing, perhaps. But just back to the Vettel Webber, I've, I very much felt at the time that
it was mismanaged by the team, whether it was Turkey 2010, the crash, where Helmut Marco came
out after the race and said, that was Mark's fault, whether it's the front wing at Silverstone,
whether it, you know, and let's not forget that I think tension between Mark and Sebastian goes
right back to 2007. Seb's first full season in Formula One, Fuji, they're behind the safety car,
it's a wet race. And Seb crashes into the back of Mark taking both cars out of the race. And I
think Mark very much felt that was a race he could have won. He hadn't won a Grand Prix at that time
as well. So in a way, it was a recipe for disaster, putting those two together kind of all along,
because whether it's the personal tension that started at Fuji, whether it's, you know, I always
felt the two prong management of Helmut Marco and Christian Horner never quite work because we never,
we, from the outside looking in, never knew who really was making the decisions. Whereas I think
if you're on the inside, if you speak to Mark, he'll say it was Helmut making all the decisions
because he was the Red Bull guy. So it was a very complicated relationship. But back to what we've
all agreed is it seems that it's the teams that create most of these problems. A lot of the time.
Same kit, don't crash, go for it. So is that going to be the secret of Mercedes this year?
What do you think on the secret of Mercedes? Do you think Kimmy at only 19 years of age is almost
is he almost too young, too raw to play silly games? You know, even if he was three years older,
he might be more inclined to get involved in a bit of skull-duggery, where he seems just so fresh
that I just, it would be, for me, it would feel very out of character if he did it something
untoward, let's say, towards George. I don't know, do you agree?
Yeah, and we've spoken about this, haven't we? We kind of talked about how we're not even sure
Kimmy's got it in him from a personality standpoint, kind of in the same way we didn't see it out of
Lando and Oscar. But JP says he's seen flashes of George in the past that would make it maybe
more likely if the gloves needed to come off, he'd be the first to drop them.
And if that does happen, it'd be interesting to see how Kimmy reacts, because whether it's an age
thing or just an inherent personality thing, I tend to agree with you that it would seem kind
of out of character. He's young, he's out of contract at the end of the year currently,
which seems amazing right now. And so yeah, I don't think he's going to nuke the team by
going all acrimonious on George for the gain of sort of seven points or 10 points or whatever
the swing might be. At least at this stage, maybe if they're close in September, October,
we'll start to see what the real Kimmy's like at that point. And the other thing is I don't see Toto
favouring Kimmy in the same way that Helmut Marco was absolutely in Sebastian Vettel's camp,
Red Bull. I think Toto will be completely fair because he's had this experience as well with
Rossburg Hamilton. He knows now, well, he'll have a better idea in his head how he's going to manage
it. And right now, I think having 19 year old as a championship leader, at least in that sense,
will make it so much easier than the last time he did it.
Well, let's hope Ansonnelli Russell becomes one of our favourite teammate rivalries. But
guys, what a wonderful chat. I love these off weeks when we discuss some slightly different
stuff. Look, have you got a favourite rivalry just to end this of all the stuff we've talked
about? Have you got a favourite, guys? I think I would go Hamilton Rossburg. I think the story of
genuine friends turned bitter rivals. Rossburg gets his championship, retires because he's
exhausted him to beat Lewis. And I was there on the group with him that year as well and seeing
some of the tension in the driver's briefings and all of it around. It was a great rivalry
that brewed for a few years and gave us plenty of fireworks.
Yeah, there's going to be a movie on that one, isn't there? How about you, Hinch?
I think, for me, it's got to be Senna Nakajima. What we needed, Hinch, was Nakajima
Dumfries to see really who had the extra 10th. Honestly, I think JP nailed it. The rivalry on
track was so good. The backstory to it was even better. The fact that Total Wolf admits maybe
it was not handled poorly from the team side or at least there's things he would do
different if in that scenario again, I think it really does kind of make it one for the ages.
Pras and Senna were never friends. Hamilton and Alonso were never friends. Vettel and
Weber were never friends. But growing up with someone and staying friends throughout the whole
journey to F1 and then ultimately having it come all undone. And as he said, leading to
Nico's retirement because he was just emotionally and mentally exhausted from it,
I think it's an incredible story. It really was. What about you, TC?
Guys, it's hard to think beyond that, isn't it? The way you've described it,
the way you've summed it up really does it justice. I mean, I did love the Hamilton Alonso
in 2007 having been there and witnessed it all. But in a way, I think my memories of that season
are also slightly muddied by the Spygate scandal and the $100 million fine that McLaren were given
and they were thrown out of the Constructors' Championship. It was the most epic season
all told, but it wasn't all because of the teammate rivalry. So I will agree with you guys
that it's Hamilton and Rosberg. Well, guys, thank you very much. Great to chat to you both.
Enjoy the Indy Grand Prix this weekend, Hinch. Thank you. And JP, no racing for you this week?
No racing. So I will tune into the Indy Grand Prix. That's what we'd like to hear.
Thank you both very much for your time. And just before I go, a couple of parish notices.
Don't forget to check out F1's other official podcasts. My guest on this week's F1 Beyond
the Grid is 2009 world champion Jensen Button. 20 years on from his first F1 Grand Prix victory
in Hungary 2006. It's fascinating to hear his memories of that special day. And that's out on
Wednesday. You can watch our chat on the F1 YouTube channel. And on the latest episode of F1
Explains, Laura Muller tells Christian Hugo how the role of a race engineer has changed in the
new era of Formula One. That's just below this episode on the F1 Nation feed. Thank you very
much for listening. We'll be back next Monday looking ahead to the Canadian Grand Prix. So
speak to you then. F1 Nation is produced by Formula One and Audio Boom Studio.
About this episode
Teammate rivalries get sharper when championship pressure, team orders, and imperfect simulator-to-track correlation collide. Palmer and Hinchcliffe trace how rivalries can “tee off” with qualifying incidents, then escalate through tactics, perceived favoritism, and even rule/engine-mode controversies. They also dig into why teams try to keep things “even” but can “exacerbate the problem,” and how leadership decisions from the pit wall shape what drivers feel on track. The conversation connects classic rivalries to modern scenarios like Mercedes’ intra-team title battle.
With an intra-team title battle brewing between Kimi Antonelli and George Russell at Mercedes in 2026, Tom Clarkson is joined by Jolyon Palmer and James Hinchcliffe to chat about some of the greatest teammate rivalries in F1 history.
The guys discuss Lewis Hamilton’s battles with Nico Rosberg at Mercedes and Fernando Alonso at McLaren, the major flashpoints during Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber’s time at Red Bull, and the politics between Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost at McLaren.
Why were those rivalries so fierce? What are the key ingredients for an intense fight between teammates? How much involvement should the team have? And of the current grid, which driver pairing do Tom, Jolyon and Hinch think would have the most heated rivalry if they were competing for a title?
