Indianapolis Motor Speedway (IMS) is a well-known race track in the U.S. Its layout—especially long straight sections—can make rain visibility more difficult.
A properly wet session is when the track is really wet, not just a little damp. Cars don’t grip the road the same way, and it can be harder to see and stay in control.
When it’s wet, water spray and glare can make it harder to see. If cars are close together, it becomes more difficult to react safely and consistently.
They’re talking about how, in rain, the timing of when you go out and what tires you use can make a big difference. They also explain how delays can make the track wetter.
Pit lane is where the teams work on the cars during a race weekend. It’s a busy, restricted area, so rain can make it riskier for the crew members on foot.
Aquaplaning is when your tires can’t grip the road because there’s too much water. The car can start to feel slippery or “float,” making it harder to control.
Intermediates are special tires for rainy conditions that aren’t quite full-on flooding. They’re meant to help the car keep grip when the track is wet but not completely soaked.
The starting grid is the lineup of cars at the beginning of the race, arranged by position. In qualifying, teams try to post the best lap times because those results determine where they start on the grid.
Timing and scoring is how a race keeps track of who’s where and how fast each car is. It’s the tech that measures lap times and decides the official order of the cars.
They mention Formula 1 to show that even the biggest, most professional racing series can run into timing/scorekeeping problems. So it’s not just a small-series issue.
“Gaps” are how many seconds ahead or behind one car is compared to another. Without gap information, it’s much harder to judge what’s happening around you.
Here, GPS means the system that helps figure out where each car is on the track. If it’s not available, it’s harder to know where other drivers are while you’re watching or managing the session.
Term
prep laps
Prep laps are extra laps that help drivers and teams get ready before the important timed laps. They’re used to warm things up and line up properly for qualifying.
The car has a hybrid system that adds extra electric power. If something goes wrong, the car can’t use that system and may have to shut down to protect itself.
If the car senses a dangerous problem, it can automatically shut things down to avoid bigger damage. It’s basically the car protecting itself, even if you lose the race.
Push to pass is a button that gives the driver extra power for a short time to help with passing. Whether it helps depends on who can use it when the race restarts.
Concept
restart with six to go
Near the end of a race, restarts are more critical because there are fewer laps to make up positions. That makes timing-based power boosts more meaningful.
A full course yellow is when the race officials are telling everyone to slow down everywhere on the track. It’s a safety warning that something is going on and drivers have to be careful until it’s over.
A full course caution is when officials put the whole track into a slower, safer mode. The speaker is saying the yellow flag was confusing because the official “caution is active” signals weren’t showing yet.
Concept
refire
Refire just means getting the engine running again after it stopped. The speaker is saying the situation was being evaluated to see if the car could restart safely.
Term
anti stall
Anti-stall is a feature that helps keep the engine running when the car is slowing down or the throttle is closed. Here, the speaker is saying this wasn’t that kind of normal “engine almost stalled” situation—it was a real failure.
The drive shaft is a part that sends power from the gearbox to the wheels. If it breaks, the car can’t drive properly and usually has to stop.
Term
gearbox broke
The gearbox is what changes how the engine’s power gets sent to the wheels. If it breaks, the car can’t keep driving normally and usually needs a repair.
The hard limiter is like the engine’s “redline” protection. When you hit it, the car stops making more power and starts limiting what the engine can do to avoid damage.
A debris flag is a warning that something unsafe—like parts or wreckage—is on the track. The speaker is saying they wanted to signal that, but the marshals/rules don’t treat it the same as a yellow flag.
This part is about what happened on track at IMS when debris got in the way of a pass. They talk through how it forced braking and how race rules (like cautions) changed the situation.
A passing zone is a part of the track where it’s considered possible to safely pass another car. Drivers expect to be able to make an overtake there because the track layout gives them the right speed and space.
A caution flag means there’s danger on the track, so everyone has to slow down. It can also change strategy because cars may get closer together and teams may pit.
Racing strategy is partly about timing your pit stops. If you wait too long, and a caution changes the situation, you can end up worse off than teams that pitted earlier.
This is about whether race control should wait before slowing the whole race. If they wait, teams already in the pits may benefit, while others may lose out because they didn’t get the same timing advantage.
An out lap is the first lap after a pit stop or restart, when the car is getting back up to speed. Where you are on that lap can matter a lot if the race gets slowed down.
The racing surface is the part of the track intended for cars to drive on at speed. The hosts use it to distinguish between a car off the racing surface (often less urgent) versus a car stopped on the racing surface at the fastest part of the track (more dangerous, typically requiring a caution).
A yellow flag is the signal that the race is slowed down for safety. Drivers have to drive more carefully, and it can affect who gains or loses positions.
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This is Off-Track.
I switched to it, and it works for five seconds,
and then Riverside just says no f*** you,
and it switches to another camera.
What is happening?
You are technologically illiterate.
You are. You are the least able to do this.
I've been using this camera for the last three weeks,
and it had no issues.
You're the least techie millennial I've ever met.
I've had no issues for three weeks with this camera.
I turned on my Zoom just now.
It f***ed and shut off.
I was like, it was about to explode.
He's pretty old, though.
Do we think he might be Gen X?
Tragically, I'm a millennial.
Yeah, he's still a millennial.
Millennials aren't that bad.
They're not great.
Everybody's not great.
We're the last good ones.
Yeah, I'd rather be a millennial than whatever the next one is.
I think at one, I think two things that seem conflicting.
You're right, and every generation has thought that.
That's the annoying part, but we're the ones that are right.
No, because you're actually absolutely right,
because it keeps getting worse.
Hey, speaking of disasters, how is the NDGP?
I mean, at least it was an entertaining race, I think.
Actually, I know it was an entertaining race,
because this is the second ND race that I've had,
that I've watched the majority of it from the couch in my own house.
So that's kind of cool.
Yeah, I had a friend, I was watching the race with a couple of friends,
and they were like, so when this happens in a race,
is he in the timing stand watching the rest of it,
or are they like debriefing through the end of it?
And I didn't want to be like, that dude is home.
Yeah, I used to watch the end of the race from the time.
Usually when it's your mistake, you will stay,
because you're trying to deal with your emotions,
and also try and show that you care how the race would have ended up.
Support the team, exactly.
They still have to be there.
Right, when it was a situation like on Saturday, I got back,
said some things, and then told everyone that I was going home,
and they said, good idea, and I left.
Yeah, let's start at the beginning though,
because a lot unfolded over a two-day event
that we should kind of talk about.
I want to first start off with, potentially,
some of the best bit of IndyCar content
was generated in the press conferences.
Incredible, absolutely incredible.
It was kind of pestering, half jokingly,
half seriously Mr. Pillow about the whole push to pass thing
that came about in Long Beach, and he was pretty defensive.
And usually when people are that defensive,
I feel like they are a little bit guilty.
And again, we've talked about this a lot,
and we don't need to spend a whole lot of time on it,
but what I don't like, what we all didn't like about the Joseph thing
was there was this story that was presented.
Oh, we thought the rules changed,
or I thought the rule had changed, and all this sort of thing.
And Alex is defaulting to the, I hit the button all the time.
No, you don't.
No, you don't.
No, you don't.
No, you don't.
It's okay that you had an indicator light that is on,
and that is not illegal, but that's fine.
I don't even think it's that.
I don't even think it's an indicator light.
I think it's the team told them.
Okay, whatever.
That's okay too, because they told them what was reality.
So stop.
No one cares.
No one judges you.
No one is upset at you, but stop BSing the world,
and all of us 24 other drivers saying,
I just spray it all the time.
No, you don't.
No, you don't.
Anyways, but it was really funny to watch Kylo and Tito go at it
back and forth with them.
It was hilarious.
I feel like the flaw in that logic is if you just spray it
all the time, because he hit it three times on the three
straights of that first lap.
So if you just hit it on the restart, whatever,
if I hit it the first time and it worked,
I would have gone on the radio and been like,
hey, guys, what's going on with the push and pass?
And probably all of us, honestly,
not used it the rest of the lab is until I got some sort
of information back from the team.
The idea that you're just spraying it the whole first lap
all the time anyway, that seems a little farfetched.
But again, I don't think he had an indicator light.
I think the team found out because there is a very easy way
to know if it's active or not.
But even if they did, right?
Even if he did just hit it the first time,
or they didn't, sorry, he's hit it the first time.
This is where it was smart.
And this is where Pato's logic comes undone a little bit.
Because Pato, so
Polo says he knew it was on and he used it.
Kirkwood said he didn't know it was on and didn't use it.
Pato said he did know it was on, but didn't use it, right?
And his defense was, well, I know it's illegal.
I know the rule.
But no, you don't.
Because the actual rule says that it will not be active,
not that you can't use it, which is what Polo's defense was,
right?
That's kind of why he was getting annoyed with the guys
that were like, well, you broke the rule.
He didn't break a rule.
No, and this is where I side with Kyle.
Kyle was like, had I been told it was active, I would have used it.
100%.
I also would have used it.
Like there's no, I don't fault anyone for doing it.
No, absolutely not.
But it's the, why can't we just say that?
Why can't we just say that?
Why do we have to like, why do we have to fabricate these excuses?
Just be like, it was on, they screwed up, sue me.
Like what is the problem here?
The most shocking thing since this is all happened is this story was dead.
This story, like nobody, it was done.
We were like, hey, 12 drivers used push to pass
and nobody really gained advantage.
One person passed, but the other person did.
It could have been done and we would have been done talking about it.
They've just slow trickled out information to keep this story alive.
Well, don't worry, Tim, because it is well and truly dead now.
We've got bigger fish to fry.
Thank you for doing a quick one that we'll be able to use in the promo
for this episode.
That was good.
That was good.
You're talking about the fried catfish, which is where we're doing a live episode
on the 19th at a cracker barrel, right?
Hell yeah.
That's the fish to fry.
Obviously.
Right.
And that's all the time we have.
Yeah.
I thought we were covering Nashville.
Okay.
So Nashville, wow, what a race.
And we will definitely cover it next week, but we do have to still review the, the NDGP.
Well, so let's, let's take the next step.
Yeah.
Let's talk about qualifying really quick.
Let's have a call.
That was another, here's, here's the hilarious, hilarious thing about the push to pass situation
is as you said, Tim, it was all dead.
And then in the effort of transparency, you know, they disclosed all of this stuff.
And now a bunch of stuff's happened.
And then the effort of transparency, no one has any idea what's going on.
I, I do, I am going to defend that.
Like I'm, people were bugging them for the list and they were just like, you guys want
the list, here's the list.
So like, I actually don't begrudge it.
I think that was the right move.
Kev, yeah.
But yes.
It wouldn't be the right move to just do that all up front.
So, so qualifying.
We, I think every driver was paying attention to the forecast come into the weekend.
And I was, I was talking to someone about the indie GP and the track specifically,
over the weekend.
And if this track is anywhere, but the Indianapolis motor speedway, it is like towards
the bottom of your list in terms of enjoyment to drive.
Like there's, there's very little character.
It's quite straightforward.
And because of that, it's not, it's not that hard to be competitive.
It's obviously clearly hard for anyone, but below to be ultra fast there, but it's
incredibly tight.
And so I think the whole field was looking forward to a little bit of an equalizer,
a properly wet session.
We don't get those very often in races.
They're, they can be fun, but they're very challenging because of visibility.
And when you're in a pack of cars and the long front straight, IMS, like the visibility
is an issue and qualifying, you can spread yourself out, especially when there's only
12 cars on track.
And when we rolled out about 10, 15 minutes before qualifying was supposed to start,
it had been, it had been sprinkling.
And they had just finished an indie next race, which was fantastic to watch.
And the track was sufficiently wet, but it wasn't like it wasn't soaked, let's say.
And it was like, man, this is going to be great because not only are we going to get
like a wet session, but it's not going to be one of those wet sessions where it's
the guy who puts on new wets last is going to go quickest because the timing of the track
drying and the firestone tire while incredible, it's very soft.
So if there's any sort of dry line, it doesn't last very long.
So there was, it was building up to be like a proper hour long wet session,
whoever goes out there and is the most committed and can find the grip and
everything is going to be rewarded.
And as we were rolling out, one of the tech officials, I'm not going to say who was like,
man, if it, if it gets much wetter than this, we ain't doing anything.
And I was a little confused by that.
And I was like, that, that doesn't seem right.
And then we were put on delays to sweep and dry pit lane, which is need I remind you guys
that pit lane, you go 45 miles an hour and is really not really a priority to be dry
at all ever in any scenario, except maybe when you're on the oval.
And so then the delays kept building and then the intensity of the rain was increasing.
And because there's no cars on track, the standing water was developing.
And all of these factors started to combine to where they cancel qualifying.
And that was really frustrating because had we gone on time and not dicked around with things
that I would think the entire pit lane thought was unnecessary, you could have had cars circulating,
you could have had cars on track.
And I think you could have gotten all, if not the vast majority of qualifying in
before there was any sort of condition that was too dangerous to race.
And I look back to races that we did at Indie GP, which was much more intense rainfall.
The beginning of qualifying at Road America a couple of years ago, much more intense.
And just a pretty big surprise that with all the fans out there on a two day event to watch
us qualify, when we had pretty good conditions for the most part for a properly wet session,
we didn't get to do it.
So I'll throw in the devil's advocacy line here, which is in pit lane, you've got exposed personnel.
So if there's any aqua planning, even at 45 miles an hour, it's obviously bad.
So I did not know that that's what they were doing.
I did not know that was the reason for the delay initially was to try to get rid of water in pilling.
I can understand why that is a thing they look to do from a safety standpoint,
for the personnel standing in pit lane.
Is it dangerous for the drivers?
No.
Is it dangerous for the crew?
Potentially.
You get it.
And then the only other thing is like it did keep raining quite a bit.
And your point about cars circulating on track kind of keeping standing water out of the important
parts does make sense, but it did keep raining.
Like I'm not sure we would have gotten through all three rounds of qualifying as it was,
because even in between qualifying segments, right?
There's breaks.
And if those 10 minutes were enough for water to, you know, so I was bummed,
I would have loved to have seen a wet session.
It just sucks that like the time it wasn't what we were on track when the lights was.
What scenario can you do a wet session then?
Because we don't have intermediates.
No, no, no.
It was just it was coming down very, very hard, right?
So like, and because Indy's such a flat track, I imagine that there are, like I remember,
you know, there was always that issue of like the river across 11, which is, you know,
tough to manage.
So again, the pocket of time, weather that lights had was perfect.
Like if that had been the time the Indy car wasn't.
It was far, the track was far too dry.
It would have been a mess because you would have had guys on slicks and people.
Yeah, sorry.
Yes.
Well, okay, that's still would have been fun.
But yes, I think it was just bad timing.
I don't begrudge the cancelling of the session that bad.
I think I can get to the reasons why.
There are other reasons for other decisions later in the weekend that I cannot get to,
but that one I can sort of see.
Well, we'll get there, Alex.
We'll get there because they delayed qualifying to Sunday morning,
which meant that warm up no longer existed.
That pocket of time was now for.
Saturday morning.
Just to sorry.
Saturday morning.
It's actually so funny.
We had this conversation, how many drivers we interviewed after qualifying
that talked about the race tomorrow.
The race was in a few hours.
So anyway, so we have a dry qualifying session Saturday morning,
now in place of warm up.
So no warm up, which again, I think is good for us on the TV side,
because it gives teams less information.
But the start of qualifying was not smooth.
Alex, was it?
No, James.
So qualifying.
What would you say is the most important part?
It's the most important thing about qualifying.
So qualifying, the intent of the session
is to set the order of the starting grid based on the lap time.
Based on what?
Got it.
And so how do you, do you just like pick numbers out of the air to decide what your lap time is?
No, no.
So there's like, there's this transponder.
There's this like, there's this cable on the track that measures when a car crosses it.
And then crosses it again to finish.
And then that elapsed time is called lap time.
Got it.
Whoever has the lowest one, the closest one to zero.
So it's like golf.
Starts first.
Right.
It's a golf first start first.
Got it.
It's almost like it's a clock of sorts.
It is, it is clock adjacent.
It's a timing system.
So it's sort of like, it's a salariance, but there's like a type of cycle.
What are we alluding to here?
We started qualifying with no time in your scoring, Tim.
The timing and scoring was not working.
I forgot.
I forgot about that.
Do you think that's important?
I'm glad that you chimed in though.
Well, it just seemed like it's a, you know, not everybody watches qualifying before you
go green for qualifying.
I would think that would be the one main thing.
That's what we were alluding to.
That's what we were just explaining to the grill.
So I just wanted to make sure it was clear what we were talking about because I was not out of it.
It's going to know what's, what's, what's incredible is that this place of all places
is the last place that we should have timing and scoring issues.
But at least the last time all the cars were on track here in October on the road course,
we had timing and scoring issues.
And I got in a lot of trouble for talking about that in the podcast, but here we are again.
So again, not the biggest issue that we're dealing with.
So yes.
So it was very confusing.
So I'll be, I'm going to, I'm going to let everybody in on a little bit of a secret here.
Timing and scoring issues are frequent.
They are, they happen with the regularity that I find very concerning.
And it's easy for me to say I don't have a system on the car track.
Yeah.
Like I don't know how it works.
I can't do anything to fix it.
I'm not, you know, in a position to, to criticize whatever, but at the same time,
the entire sport of racing kind of revolves around being able to time and score cars.
So timing and scoring seems like a pretty vital component that is with alarming regularity,
having issues.
And there are different parties involved.
It's not always one.
It's not always the same.
There's always a lot of finger pointing, but it's just a fundamental thing.
That's that whatever we deal with it, it happens.
It happens in other series too.
It's not, this is not an indie car exclusive thing.
It does happen at a lot of series at a very high level.
I've seen it happen in formula one, right?
Timing and scoring is a, is a tricky thing apparently.
What was weird about this one is normally when we're having problems,
like on the broadcast side, we're not supposed to talk about it.
We kind of just like keep talking.
And if we can't get something on the screen,
but we have timing and scoring in the booth, we'll just like talk through it.
If we don't have timing and scoring in the booth, we just sort of like avoid talking
about that for a couple of laps until it all figures itself out, which he usually does.
But this one was particularly concerning because it was qualifying.
And we had no timing and scoring on the graphics.
We had no timing and scoring on the booth in the booth.
We had no timing and scoring on pit lane.
So no teams, no officials, no broadcasters, nobody knew what was happening.
The drivers obviously have their own lap times.
You're, you're seeing how the teams can see what their car is doing,
but you don't know where you are in reference to anything else,
which in a knockout qualifying format is kind of an important thing.
But not only that, we didn't have like GPS or gaps on track.
So you, you weren't aware of where other people were on track either.
And with qualifying, the way it works with prep laps and all this sort of thing,
like you couldn't be given information as to like, don't hold this person up,
or you need to get a gap here because their gap, like there was just,
you just kind of had to do it visually, which we're capable of doing.
But I guess to your point, very weird decision that we decided to go ahead
with an already delayed session when we didn't have the most crucial element to do set session.
The only thing that saved it was that the data was being logged, right?
Like it came back, but it wasn't like we were three laps in and the system just started working.
And then everybody could start from there having already burnt like a set of tires.
The data was being logged somewhere. So once it started working,
it populated all the laps that everybody had already done, which is obviously very helpful.
It's really funny because it's, I think the broadcast got timing and scoring before like
the team did. So Mr. Barnes was texting the degenerates in the turn two suite,
asking for them to relay information about timing and scoring that they were seeing on their screens
back to him. So good. And then when he was like, oh, we got it now, they kept doing it
for the rest of the session. It's like, no, we're good, but thanks.
Barnes phones just blowing up. He's like, shut up.
Okay. So while we're here, how was qualifying for you?
Qualifying was just a poor job on my part. I think we were flirting with the top 10 kind of
all weekend in practice. And I just executed pretty poorly on my best lap. I made a pretty
sizable mistake and I missed the transfer by a hundred. So it would have easily got
a thousandth, bro. It was a thousandth. Well, then let me tell you,
even if I hadn't made a mistake, it was obvious. I still should have gotten in.
So yeah, just a poor session from my side. That being said, I think we,
our ceiling was probably eight or ninth. We started at 13th and had an extra set of reds
going into the race because of that. So it's like, we've had the conversation a couple times this
year that it's like, if we just sneak into the fast 12, like barely and we know what our pace is,
it's a super lame decision to make, but is it really worth burning an extra set to just be 11th
versus, you know, qualifying 12th and having an extra set of reds to the people that are in seventh
through 11th in front of you. So anyways, it wasn't a disaster, but it was one of those sessions
where you're disappointed because you feel like you left stuff on the table and
you let the team down a little bit. So that sucked.
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Tennessee 2 0 1 2. Going into the race, even without a warm up, you know, this race has
for its entirety been a red race. So I don't think it was too much of a mystery how it was
going to go. The only difference was the red tire was a little bit different from years past.
So because you didn't have that firm data point for warm up, like there was the question in the
back of your mind, but also not really because we've done this race a lot on various types of
reds and blacks, and it's always been a red race. So that being said, we went, we started the race
on the primes because it kept our options open and gave us the ability to do the old undercut
and do reds to the end. Or, you know, if the red tire started to blow up and you had decent
deg, you could stay out and do the overcut on the prime. So it just, it allowed us to have
more freedom. The majority of the grid kind of went the same way. I think there was only seven
cars, eight cars that started on the alternate tire. And yeah, the race for me got off to a
little bit of a start. You know, I had a pretty good run and I had overtaken quite a few cars
into turn one and the brakes on the race line there, as we've seen so many times. But as I
turned into one kind of on the outside, all of the melee took place in front of me. And I
didn't cut the grass. I went the long way around and went through the little chicane access road
and ended up, started 13th, came out in 15th. So while I had the potential to come out like
ninth, if I had gotten through there, I only lost a couple spots. And then on the restart
and subsequent 20 laps, I got back up to eighth. And the pace we had on the primes was
as good as anyone else really at that point in the race. And then started to have a hybrid
malfunction, which escalated into a failure about two laps from when it started, which I just want
to touch on that. It's really annoying. We've talked a lot about how the hybrid doesn't add a
huge amount of performance to the car. And so it's really annoying that when the hybrid fails,
there's not like a way to just have it be off, bypass it completely and bypass it. And I'm not
just speaking for myself. Like Mark has had, I think the same failure as I did in Long Beach.
And it's like, it just turns the car off. It turns all the systems off. And it's like,
it'd be really nice just to do the rest of the race without a hybrid. Yeah, you're losing a couple
tenths of laps potentially, but you're not going to DNF the day because the system stops working.
So I don't know if there's a way to look into that for the future, because it's not like it was
something that was going to set the car on fire or whatever. It just goes into a self-protect
shutdown mode and the whole car goes down with it. So I don't know, something to think about.
And then the real craziness started. So one thing I do want to touch on before we get to the real
craziness, you got the chance to experience a restart with push to pass available for the first
time. How was that? Do we think this was a positive step? It doesn't, well, in the beginning of a
race restart, it changes absolutely nothing because right everyone's on the button. The only scenario
where it will mean anything is if there's a restart with six to go and one guy has four seconds and
another guy has 40, but on a lap five restart, when everyone has 180 plus seconds, nothing happens
because everyone's on the button. So two small data size, sample size to make a judgment.
Okay, so your car goes into safe mode and shuts down and you creep to a stop in an ideal
location right at start, finish in a pretty, especially looking at it now from the outside
in a pretty area, like just out of the shadow and watching it from one Scott Dixon's on board,
which I saw this morning, pretty blind to every car on track at that point, especially with the
angle that the sun was at. So I was under the flag stand. I came to a stop and was kind of sitting
there for, I don't know, a minute, minute and a half listening to my lovely team owner
go on his rant. And I kept like looking at the flag stand and they were waving a yellow.
And I was like, oh, surely it's a full course yellow because the guy right above me was waving
yellows. But then like, I was like, man, people are hauling ass, like way too fast for this to
be full course yellow. So let me just jump in at this point. You're looking up and you're seeing
the main flagger, the chief flagger in the main flag stand waving yellow flag. But obviously,
we now know it was not yet full course caution cars were flying by in the car. There are indicators
of a full course caution, which obviously had not gone off. Had you put the two together that
like you're seeing a flag, but you're not seeing the light so you didn't know what was happening
off. So I wasn't even that wasn't that wasn't an option where I was put it together was
aren't there still dash lights on the bulkhead? No, guys were still hauling ass.
And then in turn one, I could see the flag panel was green. So I got it. It was I clued in. I got
there. And then like another, I want to say this was all in the first minute and then another like
20 or 30 seconds went by where I was like, I was like with the steering wheel off because I didn't
know if they thought maybe I could restart myself and they didn't know, but this was like a spin
where they were waiting to see if I could refire like clearly the car like came to a self inflicted
stop and engine blew up, a drive shaft broke, a gearbox broke something like this wasn't something
that I just went into anti stall and was going to restart it. Right. And so I thought taking the
steering wheel off and like waving it at them would make it clear that I wasn't going anywhere.
Yet people were still hauling ass. Like I was hearing people shift in the hard limiter going
by me. I was like, this is this is insane. Like this is very uncomfortable and ridiculous.
So I just got out. I would have thrown the steering wheel to cause a debris flag,
but we don't throw yellows for that either. Oh yeah. We totally forgot.
Oh, hold on. Hold on. We have to put a pin in you getting out of the car and that whole scenario.
Let's go back a couple laps. Two different opportunities where there were situations
where there was debris on the track. The first one slightly more offline and eventually somebody
did hit it because it ended up off the racetrack because I went to pass one Santino Frucci and
you know how through the snake there like turns a pretty popular place to kind of
stuff. So because everyone like opens back up to the left to get the angle for the right
and you can just kind of not do that and stay on the inside and it is a passing zone at IMS.
And so I went to do that and had forgotten that there was debris there because why would I just
I forgot and like I hit it failed on the brakes because it's a pretty big chunk
or I got on the brakes as I hit it. And so it actually prevented me from making the pass on
Santino there. And so I had to wait to get him a few corners later. So it prevented an overtake.
It could have given me a puncture. You shouldn't as a driver have to remember that there was
debris there. Like that's the point. You shouldn't if it's in a place where you have to think about
it like oh there's a piece of debris. I can't make this overtake. Right. Then it shouldn't be
there. You're right. But don't worry. Then there was another piece way closer to racing line way
closer to racing line arguably a way more predominant passing zone like the second most
used passing zone on the racetrack. And let me tell you this piece of like debris
with on on the race line on the entry to seven like you had to consciously like put your right
sides borderline in the grass to make sure that you didn't hit it with your left side. Like it was
this was this one was like a conscious effort every lap to not hit it which was insane for the
reasons you just stated. And also didn't we just throw a caution flag and long beach for debris
because I remember I hit it out of the fact. I don't think we did because we did after I hit it.
Oh okay. Maybe that's why that was the caution. Did it come off your car?
No. Oh no. It was just right. You kicked it onto like right. Yes. Yes. And then we threw a flag and
that's where the whole push to pass started. So we're just not doing that anymore I guess.
So again would have thrown the steering wheel out if I thought debris would cause a full course
yellow. But apparently just human bodies on the racetrack is what causes full course yellows.
I on the broadcast we saw your car creeping to a halt and I don't know if it was Willow
Towns is like well and obviously a full course caution's coming and I jokingly said well I
don't know if that's obvious anymore based on the two pieces of debris that hadn't caused cautions.
Little did I know that I was actually right. I said it tongue in cheek because obviously
there was going to be a full course caution with a card dead stick in the middle of the front
straight and two pieces of debris. Oh yeah. No, no, forget those. We've already established
that those are not like to neutralize these are compounding elements that like surely now
is a good time to do it. Maybe they were suspicious because we kept joking about
causing the yellow. We're like this guy's faking it. First long beach. He hits the
piece of debris into the line. Now we're in DGP stops suddenly in front of the game guys.
So just doing it for the show just to give some context from the layman here.
Race controls justification in the past for this is if you're in the middle of a
pit cycle they don't necessarily want to throw a yellow because it will
really hang out to dry the people that haven't pit at personally again as a layman,
I think that's dumb. part of the risk that you take by not pitting early in the
sequence. That's part of the risk that you accept in your strategy and by trying to not screw the
people that stayed out late, you really screw the people that came in early. So I think the whole
concept is dumb, but let's say separate of this because obviously there's no excuse for not going
full course yellow when you're on the track where you were. That's ludicrous. But do you guys agree
with it as a concept that if the driver is not in immediate danger, they should let the pit
cycle go through? We've had this conversation in the past. Go ahead. I'm just assuming we're
going to have a few more listeners than we usually do because thanks for that tweet by the way.
So this concept came about because we went through a phase and I've said it before,
Will Power got boned more than any driver during the period where he was so dominant,
was winning six races a year, but he was losing a lot of races because he was running out front,
he could save fuel and save tires, and then during a pit cycle, somebody would screw up on
an out lap, wreck, and pits would be closed, and he'd pit under caution and come out 15th,
and he'd be screwed. Yes, Tim, to your point, that is part of the strategy and whatever.
There are some examples where it was just like, I was tough to swallow. You generally felt bad for
whoever was, not just him, whatever was was in that position. And I'll remember the first
time we did it effectively. It was at Barber. Between nine and 10, Graham had a mechanical
problem. He pulled off, drivers left onto the grass, he was off the racing surface,
you could see him from a mile away, we were halfway through the pit cycle,
and they left the track green for exactly one lap. So everybody had a chance to go by pit in
once. And that sort of set the standard. And I think if it's a scenario where the car is off
the racing surface, there's been no contact with another driver or a wall, again, we've talked
about this, this is kind of the general guideline that we kind of all accept is fine. But when a
car is stopped on the racing surface at the fastest part of the track, I do not see a justification
for it. And because we had just come off of kind of complaining about the lack of yellows for the
debris on the ground, it just seemed like it just seems so irresponsible. It just seemed like you're
taking a piss at this point. It's like you're, it's like they're trying to consciously see how
far they can push it and get away without throwing a caution, as if there's some like penalty to the
sport, if a caution is thrown, like you're, you're somehow, you know, robbing the sport of its purity
if a yellow flag comes out. Guys, cautions are part of racing. It's sometimes they fall your way,
sometimes they don't. You can't play God with it. You're almost, you're manipulating the result,
in a sense, when you're taking a scenario that in every other situation would have caused a yellow.
And because it's in the middle of a pit cycle, 100% will have an effect on the outcome of the race.
You are making a decision that is manipulating the result. And I think that's so wrong.
But that's not even the biggest part. The biggest part is the safety part. It was, it was, I mean,
it was absolutely insulting to every driver, I think. And look, I talked to a bunch of guys
after the race. Some guys were like, yeah, it's bad, but like, we could see he was there.
Doesn't matter. Dude, doesn't matter. Dude, did you, so the video I sent to the group chat this
morning, which I'm going to have Tim put out on our, on our Twitter. Did you see when Dixon was
overtaking Pato? Did you watch that video? I didn't see the whole thing now. I'm going to watch
it now. So go to, this is how scary it is. Go to, go to 28 seconds of that video or just
watch the first 30 seconds. Oh my God. Who's beside us? That's Pato. No, no, no, on the inside.
Me. When the camera flips back around. No, dude, when the camera flips back around backwards,
there's someone else even inside of him. Eric's in. Yeah. No, I know. Which would have been another
car even closer to you. Stingray. Yes. No, I know. Stingray. It's Stingray. Yeah. Dude,
it's so insane. It's so insane. It is, it is, here's the thing. There have been,
okay, little, little again, I'm bringing you behind the curtain a little bit on some of the
broadcast stuff. I don't know if some of the stuff I should even be saying. For television,
cautions are good. Those are good, right? Cautions are good. It allows us to get commercial
breaks in. It shakes up the race a little bit. Like there's just no, from an entertainment
standpoint, there's no doubt that cautions are a good thing, right? Knowing that race control has
operated the way it has for the last, you know, 678 years, whatever it's been,
there are times where something will happen and they'll be like, oh, that should be a caution.
And I'm like, eh, guys, it really shouldn't. I see, I see what you're, I see that you're,
you know, it'd be nice. I would be nice, but I also don't agree that it should be, right?
Like I've defended the position enough times. I've also been on the other side of it,
like Laguna with Ericsson last year, inexcusable, right? And so I've been on both sides of it,
but I have gone to the defense of IndyCar on not throwing cautions more often than not,
to be honest, when, when they come up in conversations in the TV combat, right?
This one, like I don't, I don't even want to have a conversation with anyone in IndyCar about it,
because I'm telling you there's quite literally nothing they can say that will make you be like,
oh, okay, I see how you got there. And at this point, even an apology has fallen on deaf ears.
Like I'm, when it comes to driver safety, maybe I'm a little bit more sensitive than others,
but I could, I just, I can't forgive it and I won't. I, that, that move was
unforgivable to me. And I'm sure you feel the same way as the guy that was sat, stranded,
completely exposed on the racetrack. Yeah, I was, I was pretty upset.
For all the reasons you just, you just said, I, and here's the, the worst part about it, James.
I don't expect anything to change, but we're recording this on Monday. It's two days after
the race. I might be surprised who knows. You could be, you could be fine by then.
Good luck. Good luck collecting. Good luck. Take it from my merch sales. No chance.
Anyways, I, I must go because it is May guys, and we get to go drive on the coolest racetrack
in the world tomorrow, which is Tuesday. And we could start practicing for the 110th running
of the Indy 500, which is the only thing I can think of to make up for what was a really
in the GP. So there you go, pal. Thanks for listening. Well, let's go do that. Sorry
that I have to cut this a little bit short and we'll get to Nashville next week.
We will see you. you for hopefully what is going to be a pretty cool interview on
Thursday. We're going to switch the days around and also we hope to see everyone at the live
show next week, which will also be a lot of fun. Everyone get their catfish, their chicken and
dumplings, their okra, their sweet tea, some t-shirts from the country store, some candy,
old soda, anything you want. GD up. Let's go. A hug and kiss from Tim. A hug and kiss from Alex.
Again, good luck collecting.
This has been Offtrack with Hinch and Rossi. Offtrack is part of the Serious XM Sports Podcast
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About this episode
Rossi and Hinch start with a Zoom/Riverside tech hiccup, then shift into how teams and drivers debrief after incidents—timing stand vs. end-of-race conversations. IndyCar press-conference drama follows, centered on “push to pass,” including how often it was used, what the rule wording actually says, and when activation matters. The show then turns to wet-weather qualifying at IMS: forecast expectations, tire timing, aquaplaning risk, and how delays and timing/scoring glitches can reshape the session and strategy.
The guys recap the controversial Indy GP. We'll get to Nashville next week.
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Off Track is part of the SiriusXM Sports Podcast Network. If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more, please give a 5-star rating and leave a review. Subscribe today wherever you stream your podcasts.
