The Ferrari Luce is a Ferrari model that was announced recently. The podcast is saying Ferrari announced it as a positive development. It’s being discussed as important news from the brand.
A “manual” is a car where you choose the gears yourself, usually using a clutch pedal and a stick. Enthusiasts like it because it feels more connected and more fun to drive.
They’re describing a system that tries to make an EV feel like it has a manual shifter. You might move the controls like a manual, but the car isn’t actually changing gears the same way a normal gas manual does.
A dual-clutch transmission is an automatic that shifts gears very fast. It uses two clutches so it can switch gears quickly, and the host is saying the new tech might mimic that kind of shifting feel.
The Ferrari Daytona SP3 is a special, high-performance Ferrari with a big V12 engine and a very driver-focused character. The host mentions it as the coolest modern Ferrari in his view.
Term
electric far come out
The host is talking about a future electric Ferrari. They’re basically saying that even if Ferrari makes an electric car, it might not automatically make them like the design more.
Horsepower is a number that roughly tells you how much power the car has. Saying “a thousand horsepower” means it’s extremely powerful, but the host is saying power numbers alone don’t make the car feel exciting.
They mention the Ferrari Mondial as another Ferrari that people weren’t crazy about when it first appeared. The host is basically saying some Ferraris get judged harshly at the start.
They’re using “death of a brand” to mean the company’s reputation could be ruined. The idea is that if a new car doesn’t match what fans expect, people may lose confidence in the brand.
BMW is the car brand being referenced. The point is that BMW changed its image and lineup over time, moving more toward luxury and SUVs rather than being “for enthusiasts” only.
Luca di Montezemolo was a top leader at Ferrari. Fans often talk about him as the person who guided Ferrari through one of its best periods.
Concept
golden years of Ferrari
“Golden years” is a way fans describe Ferrari’s best era. In this segment, the host connects that idea to the time when Montezemolo was leading Ferrari.
A Phillips head screw is the common screw type that uses a cross-shaped screwdriver. “Exposed” just means you can see the screws instead of them being covered up.
The BMW M3 is BMW’s famous sporty version of the 3 Series. In this discussion, it’s brought up because it’s also associated with manual-transmission availability, which fans often look for.
The BMW M2 is a sporty BMW made by BMW’s performance team. The big point here is that it can come with a manual transmission, which many driving fans prefer.
The BMW 3 Series is BMW’s common, everyday model line (the “main” 3 Series). The point being made is that BMW’s performance cars are built on that familiar platform, not just on rare, special cars.
Sam Altman is a famous tech leader. In this segment, his name is used as an example of the kind of audience the host thinks some companies might be designing for.
Quarterly targets are goals a company sets for every three-month period. The host is saying that chasing those short-term numbers can change what a brand chooses to build.
The Toyota Corolla is a popular, everyday compact car. Here they’re talking about a special version that’s tuned for the Nürburgring track, so it’s meant to feel more like a fun performance car than a normal Corolla.
A Nürburgring edition is a performance-focused special model whose setup is tuned to run well on the Nürburgring circuit. In practice, that usually means changes to suspension tuning and other chassis details to improve lap times and durability under track conditions.
“Masters of Nürburgring” is what the host says the “G.R.” stands for. It’s basically a name that signals the car is tuned to be good at Nürburgring-style track driving.
Suspension dampening is how the shocks control the car’s movement over bumps. If you change it, the car can feel more stable and controlled—especially when you’re driving hard or on a track.
A track record is the best time someone has set on a race track. When a car is said to have a new track record, it usually means it was tuned to be faster and more capable in real driving conditions on that course.
Torque is the engine’s twisting force that helps the car pull forward. More torque usually means stronger acceleration, especially when you’re not already at high speed.
A hot hatchback is a small hatchback that’s tuned to be more fun and quick than a normal one. The host is saying this special Corolla is less practical than you’d expect from that kind of car.
Carbon fenders are the outer front fender panels made from carbon fiber. They can make the car lighter and are often used on higher-end performance or appearance packages. They also tend to look more “race car” than regular metal panels.
A carbon hood is a car’s hood made from carbon fiber. It’s often lighter than a standard hood and can be shaped for better airflow. It’s usually something you’d see on a higher-performance trim or special build.
A carbon wing is a spoiler made from carbon fiber. Its job is to help the car stick to the road at higher speeds. Carbon fiber is used because it’s light and can be shaped for good aerodynamics.
Part
vented vendors
“Vented vendors” is likely a transcription error for “vented vents” or “vented covers,” referring to functional-looking openings in the bodywork. In performance cars, vents are often used to manage airflow—either for cooling (like brakes/engine bay) or for aerodynamic balance. The host is reacting positively, implying it’s a distinctive visual/functional detail.
The BMW 5 Series is a luxury sedan that’s designed for comfortable daily driving. It’s also the kind of car that can have sportier performance versions. The podcast is using it as part of a discussion about which performance sedans are best.
The Challenger is a muscle car that comes in different performance versions. The podcast mentions a very powerful Hellcat version, but also says there are other, less powerful versions too. It’s an example of how one car model can fit different budgets and tastes.
Hellcat is Dodge’s super-power engine setup. In this case, the host is saying the truck has a top version that makes about 777 horsepower.
Car
Ram Rumble Bee
The Ram Rumble Bee is a special edition-style performance truck. It’s meant to look and feel more like a fun street car—lowered stance, styling upgrades, and track-focused settings.
A lowered truck sits closer to the ground than stock. It usually looks sportier and can feel more stable, but you may scrape more easily on bumps and driveways.
“Track mode” is a driving setting that changes vehicle behavior for harder use. It typically sharpens throttle response, adjusts traction/stability control, and may alter shift or power delivery to help the car stay composed under aggressive driving.
The Ford F-150 is a large pickup truck that many people buy. The podcast is talking about how Ford has been doing well with high-performance versions of the F-150. It’s mentioned as part of that bigger success story.
The Ford F-150 Lightning is an electric pickup truck. The podcast is comparing it to the older SVT Lightning, which was a high-performance street truck. The point is that the Lightning name has a performance history.
The Ford SVT Lightning is a fast, performance version of the F-150 pickup. It was made to be a high-performance truck you could drive on regular roads. The podcast mentions it to explain the meaning behind the Lightning name.
The Chevrolet Silverado EV is a pickup truck that runs on electricity instead of gasoline. The podcast is talking about how more traditional truck brands are switching to electric. It’s mentioned as part of that bigger trend.
A manual transmission is the kind of car where you shift gears yourself using a clutch and a stick. The host is saying enthusiasts love that kind of driving feel, and it’s part of why they’re excited about certain cars.
This means extra gear people add to make a truck better for dirt and rough roads. The host is saying that while it helps off-road, it can make the truck feel worse on regular roads and not as quick.
The Enzo is a legendary Ferrari supercar. People still use it as a reference point for how fast a car can accelerate, and here they’re comparing other cars to its quick 0–60 time.
This is an engine description: it’s a V8 (eight cylinders) with a 5.7-liter size. Bigger displacement often helps an engine make strong power, which is why they’re comparing horsepower.
Term
Supercharged Helik
A supercharged engine uses a device that pushes extra air into the engine. More air usually means more power, which is why they’re highlighting this option.
“Hemi” refers to a specific style of V8 engine design used by Chrysler/Dodge. In this discussion, they’re saying the lower-power version isn’t as good as the stronger options.
Concept
gasps of doing this
They’re basically saying this might be one of the last times we’ll see cars built with these kinds of big, traditional engine choices. It’s a “this era is ending” kind of statement.
The Ford Lobo is a Ford vehicle name the podcast brings up as something you might not see often. The speaker is basically asking whether anyone has seen one in real life. It’s mentioned more as a curiosity than a detailed review.
A concept car is like a preview of a future vehicle. It shows ideas about what a brand might build later, even if the final production car could look or work differently.
A design brief is a structured set of goals and constraints that guides how a product (including a car) should be designed. When the host says the tagline is “the design brief,” they mean the marketing line also reflects the actual creative requirements for the vehicle’s look and theme.
The Hummer EV SUV is an electric SUV. It’s designed to be capable off-road and to use electric power. The podcast is discussing how a smaller or cheaper version could make it more appealing.
The Jeep Gladiator is a pickup truck that’s built for off-road driving. It’s not as big as the largest trucks, but it’s also not the smallest category. The podcast uses it as a size comparison.
“Skunk Works” is a nickname for a special team that works on experimental projects. The hosts are saying this vehicle was developed like a fast, unusual side project.
Car
Hummer name
The “Hummer name” refers to GM’s decision to revive the Hummer brand for modern vehicles, including a full-size pickup. In this segment, the hosts argue that if GM keeps using the Hummer name, it will likely keep pursuing the same big, distinctive design direction.
They’re talking about an electric SUV where the roof can open like a convertible. It’s not common because making an SUV safe and sturdy with an openable roof is tough, especially with EV battery placement.
They mean the world of electric cars—what companies are making and selling. Their point is that a lot of EVs don’t feel fun to drive and are more like comfortable gadgets than real enthusiast cars.
The Viper is a Dodge sports car famous for having a huge engine and (in many versions) a manual gearbox. The discussion here is about whether a new one should keep that same basic formula.
Naturally aspirated means the engine doesn’t use a turbo or supercharger to force air in. It breathes on its own, and that can make the power delivery feel more straightforward.
“First gen” means the original version of that car model, from the earliest years. They’re saying later Vipers improved, but didn’t completely change what made the original feel special.
An air-cooled engine uses air flowing over the engine to keep it from overheating. The hosts are pointing out that older versions of these cars were built around that simpler cooling approach.
A “purist” is a fan who wants a car to stay exactly the way it was originally intended. In this discussion, it’s about whether people accept changes like different transmissions or engine setups.
SRT-10 is a label Dodge used for the Viper’s top, most extreme version. Think of it as the “biggest and baddest” Viper package. In this conversation, it’s used to talk about what parts of the Viper identity might come back.
Term
Copperhead
“Copperhead” is a name being used for a rumored new muscle-car concept. The idea is that it would bring back that old-school muscle-car attitude, even if it isn’t literally called a Viper. They also compare it to other modern top muscle cars.
The Ford Mustang GTD is a high-performance version of the Mustang. The podcast is saying it’s meant to be competitive with other top performance cars. It’s being discussed as a serious, fast Mustang variant.
A V10 is an engine with 10 cylinders arranged in a “V” shape, typically associated with high-revving, high-output performance. A manual transmission is the driver-controlled gearbox, and pairing a V10 with a manual is a classic enthusiast wish because it maximizes driver involvement and keeps the car’s character more mechanical.
“Space Wagon” sounds like a nickname used in the podcast. It doesn’t come with clear details here about a specific car model. The speaker is using it more for fun than to explain specs.
This is a typical way to make a supercharged car faster. The pulley changes how hard the supercharger spins, and the tune updates the car’s computer so it runs safely with the extra boost.
“Six-speed” means the car has a manual gearbox with six forward gears. Having more gears can help the engine stay in the right rev range when you’re driving.
That’s a Mercedes E-Class with AMG performance upgrades. It’s the kind of car that feels powerful and fun in a more traditional way than many newer cars.
The Maserati Quattroporte is a luxury sedan, meaning it’s built to feel comfortable and upscale. It’s also meant to be fun to drive, not just a smooth cruiser. The podcast brings it up because the speaker is talking about how much they liked one they owned.
Term
pink corrected
This is about cleaning up the car’s paint. “Paint correction” means polishing so the surface looks smoother and clearer, and “pink” likely refers to the specific products or pads used.
Fender liners are the inner plastic panels behind the front or rear wheels. They help keep dirt and water from getting into the car and can also reduce noise.
Dry ice blasting is a cleaning technique that shoots tiny pellets of dry ice to lift dirt off surfaces. It’s useful when you want to clean without using a lot of liquid or harsh chemicals.
“Suspension faults” refers to diagnostic warnings indicating the suspension system isn’t operating within expected parameters. On cars with air suspension, these warnings can be triggered by issues like leaks, sensor problems, or compressor/valve faults.
Air ride is a suspension system that uses air bags instead of regular metal springs. Because it can change how high the car sits and how it rides, it often feels smoother than a car with fixed suspension.
A McPherson strut is a type of suspension design that combines the shock absorber and the main suspension link in one assembly. It’s a very common layout, especially on many everyday cars.
The E39 M5 is a specific older BMW M5 model (from the E39 generation). People often love it because it feels especially fun and special to drive compared with newer M5s.
A “money shift” is when you shift a manual car into the wrong gear and the engine revs way too high. It can be costly because it can damage the engine.
The TTRS is an Audi TT in its high-performance “RS” trim. It’s a quick, sporty car, and the speaker is saying someone made a serious manual-shifting mistake in it.
They’re talking about how many miles the car has. More miles usually means more parts have aged and worn down, so the car can feel less tight until you compare it to a lower-mile example.
“Wear items” are parts that slowly get worse as you drive, like things in the suspension that take a lot of stress. Replacing them helps, but a high-mile car can still feel different because wear happens gradually in multiple places.
“Squidgy” is slang for feeling soft or not very precise. In car terms, it usually means the suspension or mounting parts don’t feel tight and responsive anymore.
The G-Class is a luxury SUV that’s also built to handle rough roads. The podcast is talking about the speaker’s experience with one and that they’re ready to move on from it. It’s being used as a reference point in a comparison of ownership.
ABS is the system that helps keep your wheels from locking up when you brake hard. Here, the ABS problem also messed up the car’s ability to measure speed, which then affected the speedometer and even shifting.
Wheel speed is the rotational speed of each wheel, typically measured by sensors used by systems like ABS. The host explains that when ABS fails, the car can’t reliably derive wheel speed, which then breaks the speedometer and prevents the transmission from shifting.
The speedometer tells you how fast the car is going. In this situation, it stopped working because the car couldn’t get speed information from the wheel sensors, and that also caused shifting problems.
A transmission needs to know things like how fast the car is going to choose the right gear. The host is saying that when the speed info disappeared, the car wouldn’t shift normally.
A scan tool is like a computer that plugs into the car to find what’s wrong. The host is saying they bought a Mercedes-specific diagnostic tool to help figure out the ABS/speed problem.
The Ford Bronco is an off-road SUV meant for trails and rough roads. They’re considering it as Doug’s next vehicle choice.
LIVE
Hello and welcome to this car pod I'm Kenan I'm Nick and there's a lot to talk about I'm traveling so I'm here I've got a microphone today we'll cover that let's talk news.
All right news jumping right in so Ferrari has announced in after the luce they needed some good news so they announced that there is a there are that's been rumored there is going to be a manual version of the dodici chilindry it will be a limited edition car allegedly.
But the reason we say this is there been some trademark filings recently that have shown like that suggests that a manual could be coming for this car which is very I want to be clear Ferrari could use some good will right now but they have not announced anything they're not confirming this they're
not saying that for sure this is true. But you hope it is. Yeah it'd be nice and for sure it would be nice especially after that travesty Jesus.
So the thing about this car though is that if it does come to exist as the rumors that will be a limited edition car it's not like they're bringing the manual back for all models it would just be a very special car which means of course that it's only going to would end up in the hands of a few clients to be worth a gazillion dollars blah blah blah.
But the idea that they're doing it is interesting but there's a different filing I thought that was more interesting and that is they're coming up with a it's a like digital manual gearbox so it's like it's like a manual but it doesn't actually connect to anything and this would be for
potentially EV applications so you can feel like you're shifting manual even though doesn't actually you know it's not actually connected to anything.
This we've heard this rumor before this might be something that exists we've talked a lot about like the Hyundai products there it feels like you know you're shifting a dual clutch.
If they're bringing that technology out for cars potentially like the lucha or other electric products I think it's interesting but you know.
I hate to be a Seneca but it feels like they're just throwing a bone to the enthusiasts to shut us up after we all collectively lost our minds over the lucha rightfully so.
Well I still haven't weighed in on that because I was very ill.
We'll get to the lucha.
All right fine tell us tell us your thoughts on the lucha.
Kenan was gone last week when we hammered on the lucha.
What do you got?
Kenan's a throwaway man.
Kenan is an enthusiast of the brand.
Yeah diehard enthusiast of the brand.
To be honest with you my feeling is I just don't care.
For me the thing is like modern Ferrari products haven't really the only modern products that have gotten me going like the Daytona SP3 I think is the coolest thing they've done in probably 15 years.
But a lot of the Ferrari products like they're just I'm not the customer for a $670,000 EV but I'm also not the customer for any new Ferrari.
The Ferraris I like tend to be older ones anyway and so for me it doesn't actually have that much of an impact on my life.
I think that for the brand it's like it's clear that navigating these waters are going to be really challenging for them.
And like I the market has spoken clearly every enthusiast in the entire world has made their opinion known.
But for me it's like I don't feel as passionately about it because it's just not the kind of car I just am not a customer of this.
Like I'm not a modern Ferrari customer so ultimately as an enthusiast I can be outraged about it.
But if I'm not actually buying the product I don't feel that like it makes that big of a difference for me personally.
Yeah I mean maybe I think that the opinions I think a lot of people buy Ferraris because they want to make a statement and you know.
This makes a statement there's no question about that.
My point is people want to buy a Ferrari because they want to make a statement and even if you're not a customer of the car and you think it's stupid and you think it's ridiculous and terrible.
You are feeding into the wrong statement and that will prevent people from buying the car.
You know I mean like if the social collective is if the social collective is that the car is stupid then the car will not that will be a factor in the car not selling.
And I think so I don't think it's that crazy for people not for people to have that opinion and to make it known.
I people can have people have done both of those things.
They have had that opinion and made it known.
But I think that for me it's like I just it is there was there's I don't think there was a situation where any electric far come out we would like it.
But I think that the design of this car is tough and like seeing it in person I don't know it's going to make it better.
I've thought a lot for our designs have been questionable recently and seeing them in person has made them better.
But I don't think like the F 80 is a good example.
I thought that car was like hey then we saw it in person a car we can actually liked it quite a bit.
But I don't you know this is like I just the wheels are tough.
The interior is amazing.
You're taking the David Lee playbook here.
I don't want to say anything too polarizing so that I can stay in for ours.
No it's just like I genuinely don't have like a really strong feeling about it.
Like when I see a 308 my heart like lights on fire and I get really excited.
But I haven't felt that way about most modern Ferraris in a really really really long time.
Yeah but you don't expect a take for sure.
You understand that this one specifically is particularly objectionable.
I understand that.
To me it's just like I just like I'm just not bothered.
I'm just like you know it like whatever.
Like I just I don't love it.
I'm kind of it makes me sad.
You hear that he's given up on life.
That is that is the actually it's he's so resigned that he can't even muster up the outrage.
I have some thoughts for you.
OK.
Johnny I've is the biggest overrated hack.
The planet has ever seen.
No that is.
I completely disagree with that.
His big innovation here was saying oh a rectangle with rounded edges.
What a genius.
OK.
That guy maybe was qualified to design the screen although I think he did a terrible job on that too.
He turns out a car is a lot harder than a rectangle to design.
Yes.
And he proved I think he's ruined his personal legacy.
I think yes company that he did the design firm that he founded is now just completely over.
And I think he's much like when Michael Jordan tried to play baseball like stick to your lane retire on a high note.
You went from being one of the most revered designers in the world to the person personally responsible for killing the brand Ferrari.
So like I honestly want to switch to Android just because I am so mad at what he did to Ferrari.
You know I can't.
And he was a can and he was a revered designer.
He was revered.
Yeah.
Paul revered to design.
It's really great to accept criticism from someone who can't even pronounce revered.
Well but at least I didn't worry.
I agree with.
I think that that take is maybe a bit hyperbolic but I do agree that his personal legacy is tarnished for sure.
I permanently.
I did give us the first iPhone which is.
Yeah.
So did Steve Jobs and a lot of other people.
Yeah.
But Steve did his design.
OK.
Like the iPhone design is not actually that impressive if you stop and think about it.
And it is proven by the fact.
I think you see what abomination he rolled out that doesn't even look good by high on die standards.
High on die.
I don't agree with that.
I think I think you're a little I think you're a little off base.
I think the iPhone is a brilliant piece of design.
I think it's more complicated than you think to design a piece of consumer technology that everyone has to use that also is beautiful.
And I think you can only probably if given the chance you could probably only cope with a few examples.
Well I mean look at look at our TV is also a rectangle.
I can think of a lot of good looking rectangles in my life.
Do you think the TV is beautiful.
Like a lot of people think the iPhone is a beautiful piece of equipment.
And I know I think we all bought into this marketing hype from Apple and now that we've sobered up we realize oh it's just a rectangle.
Well I'll tell you this this.
I by the way my other my other view that you're I think you're a little hyperbolic about how it looks.
I think the card looks fine.
I really do.
I think if this was a Polestar I think if it was a Polestar we would sit here and be like here's the new Polestar five.
It's what it looks like.
These are its specs.
We talk about it on our new segment for three minutes and move on.
I don't think I think people are freaking out about how ugly it is.
I think that take is a little overblown.
I just think it's wrong for Ferrari and disappointing for Ferrari.
And this is the beginning of the end of Ferrari being like the brand we all lost.
I think that's the point.
Ferrari is known for sending cease and desist letters because they don't like the wrap you put on your four or five days.
Right.
So like there was one conspiracy theory from Throttle House.
You sort of half threw it out there saying oh well maybe they're doing this to prove to the regulators that they shouldn't have to do EVs.
Like Ferrari is too protective of the brand to make this big of an unforced error.
Then there's been arguments.
Oh well maybe it's for the Chinese or maybe it's for the you know the tech overlords that are going to make us all unemployed in a few years.
I don't buy any of this.
There is no market for this.
There is no buyer for this.
And the damage they've done to their brand wipes out the enthusiast space.
Like it is just I still struggle to understand like what on earth they were thinking the Chinese have way better EVs than this.
The Chinese to make a competitive Chinese product that needs a fly float jump like it needs to have a real party trick.
Not just like oh it's a thousand horsepower like.
And it's a Ferrari because it's not enough.
That's not special.
It's not enough.
Well I think they they struggle with the same concept.
I think a lot of people make EVs do.
And this is why I'm like kind of giving them a little bit of grace with it is like what how do you differentiate an EV Ferrari.
All the performance of EVs are the same.
It's insane.
They're fast but they're not emotional.
I would start.
I would start by making it beautiful.
I would at the very least start by doing what Ferrari does even even if even in the era when Ferrari performance was not incredible.
Even in the era when some of the cars were a little sketch.
Three GT four is what you're thinking.
Beautiful.
Make it beautiful.
Yeah.
Right.
There were some odd looking make it.
There were there were some not so great does overall cars.
However I think generally speaking they have made it beautiful in the three way GT four is a good example.
Honestly that car has never been received wealth.
It were 50 years after that car came out and it stole the butt of jokes.
Same with the Mondial.
Exactly.
And that the three way GT four is the car to be clear.
We all think it's pretty cool and I still want a three way GT four.
But when it came out it was viewed as one of the ugliest Ferraris of all time.
In fact it wasn't called a Ferrari initially.
It was bad as a Dino and then eventually in order to sell them that became Ferrari and for a while that was the only Ferrari product you could buy in the United States because the
was a gray market car.
You couldn't get that.
So I view this car like that that maybe this is the gateway to something else and hopefully they do make something beautiful and things like that.
So I don't know.
Like it's just it is unsettling and my knee jerk reaction when I saw it for the first time is the same as everybody that I'm like I could not.
I thought it was AI.
I thought it was some bad joke.
Like I didn't think it was funny.
The seven stages of grief shock which everyone had went through denial.
Everyone had me.
That's right.
I'm still in anger.
Then it's bargaining.
You're somewhere between depression and I think that's why you missed last week and acceptance which is you've now accepted that it's an abysmal failure.
And eventually maybe we all get the processing but I do think it's the death of a brand.
I feel like I'm I came to acceptance pretty quick.
I took Kenan's point earlier.
This is Ferrari is not for us and they're admitting that now they're not for car enthusiasts.
And it's sad because BMW made that transition also during my lifetime.
You know BMW when I was a kid was a brand that was only for car enthusiasts or primarily for car enthusiasts.
And it made the transition to this SUV brand that's like a brand of luxury goods which is fine.
And they sell a lot of cars and honestly their cars are still excellent but they're not they're not you know exciting and fun and cool in the same way.
They're still cool but in a different way.
And I think this is Ferrari kind of heading in that direction as well.
I truly believe we live through one of the golden years of Ferrari with the Montezemolo at the helm.
I truly believe that like this.
Did you see Luca also said I saw Lucas comments.
He's as fired up as I am.
No he was.
He was very restrained in addition to the comments we covered last week.
Did you see that he also said this is one that the Chinese won't copy.
I did see that.
Yes.
That's hilarious.
Which is very.
Which is so Luca the Montezemolo.
God.
He was the he was the man.
Good stuff.
You know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is regarded like the whole point of this.
I know we've like focused on the lucha despite having a 360 manual which of course our producer Sean picked with with the exposed Phillips head screws which is my favorite part of this whole picture right here.
But yeah.
Hopefully they throw us a bone and like BMW BMW people don't give them enough credit.
They still make some pretty cool cool cars.
The M2 comes in a manual the M3 or four.
Like yeah.
Like Doug explains like the base car like a three series.
I get his point.
I'm just saying they're still throwing us a bones occasionally.
And I do hope that like sure if they want to make cars for Sam Altman and Peter Thiel that are $640,000 meh looking EVs like just keep making a couple for Kenan and I that in 10 years we can afford.
I think they will.
I think we'll always have cool cars but at the same time whereas BMW does still make a few they are primarily in a luxury SUV brand now.
Period.
And it's just not the same.
And I think that you're seeing probably the beginning of Ferrari maybe go in that direction.
I wonder if when the book is written and we all look back on the whole story if the IPO was the beginning of the end.
I really wonder if we're going to sit back and say once they finally had to start hitting quarterly targets.
And sales numbers were no they were no longer a long term strategy of this brand that was like keep it rare and special and cool.
Which is what made it how it is and suddenly became hit this revenue number hit this sales number.
I wonder if when the books are written in 30 years 40 years 100 years we look back on the IPO is the beginning of the end.
We got to move on to our next news story which is.
Oh something.
Toyota Corolla.
So back to enthusiast land in a car much better looking the luce has a new model coming out.
I don't know how you say this G. R. M. N.
But it's basically the Nurburgring edition Corolla G. R.
So super cool M. N.
Stands for masters of Nurburgring.
I can never say that correctly.
It's a bunch of little tweaks.
It's not actually like a totally ground up redesign but cool wheels.
They change everything from like the suspension dampening et cetera et cetera to hit a new track record at the Nurburgring for the car.
Seven foot pound more than the 2016 model for torque.
Like it's very very incremental.
But in a whopping 66 pounds which Porsche would cost you what 18 grand.
Yeah.
Kenan's over here laughing seven pound feet.
Kenan that's the difference between turning a screwdriver like this and turning it like this.
Right.
Okay.
That's I mean that's that is worth marketing for sure.
It's got a good signature on the dashboard.
I mean it's a little bit better than a trim package.
The thing not mentioned here is that like the Morizo edition before this car does not have a back seat.
So while it is the coolest most exciting fastest craziest G. R. Corolla.
It unfortunately does lose that level of practicality that we somewhat expect from a hot hatchback.
But it retains the doors and that's that's important.
It retains the rear doors.
What they won't give us is that damn Lexus that I found out about that that has all that power.
What was that thing called?
Oh yes.
You know what the fact that we've forgotten about it.
They're they're thrilled.
They're like all the Americans now they won't remember.
They won't remember that they're getting screwed.
G. R. M. and Corolla looks pretty cool.
Is this thing's going on sales 26 model?
Yes, it is my kind sir.
2016 model.
That means we're getting it very very soon.
So if you're in the market for G. R. Corolla.
Now's the time.
Carbon fenders, carbon hood, carbon wing.
That's all pretty cool.
This is cool.
I really love the vented vendors.
It's a pretty cool element.
All right.
What else?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I am.
The Fast and the Furious me loves that that whole right there.
I'm into it personally, but you know, it's yeah.
I would get the basey base.
Then special order the fenders and like kind of make a tribute cards like you keep the rear.
You get the Timu knockoff fenders.
Yeah, that's true.
Timu knockoff put HREs on it, which we'll come back to.
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This is the best news story of the whole week.
Ferrari, it's kind of interesting, isn't it?
Ferrari's over there doing dumb crap and ruin and everything.
And Chrysler is over here being like, we're back.
We're back.
They're sticking to what they know and what they're good at, which is big motors and trucks.
777 horsepower, 680-foot pound of torque.
That's way more than a six-bump over the stock model.
3.40 to 60 four-door pickup truck.
So the SR210 Ram is...
Go ahead.
Although the cool thing about this truck, so this is the return of the Ram Rumblebee,
which is a truck that Nick has loved.
He's a big fan of it at his political events, let's just say.
They're bringing the Rumblebee back.
It's kind of an interesting thing because every Ram since the last Rumblebee,
which was probably 18 years ago, has been...
Every sporty Ram has been off-road focused, the TRX and such.
You have the SR210 and the Rumblebee in that era and then the TRX, the RHO.
We're back to a street truck.
Now, the cool thing is, yes, there is a 777 horsepower Hellcat version,
but there are also lesser powerful versions.
If you just want sort of this cool Rumblebee look, the lowered truck kind of situation,
and that's awesome.
But Nick, as an SR210 man, you must be thrilled.
This is essentially the return of the SR210 because it's a street-focused performance truck like that was.
They just can't call it the SR210 since it doesn't have a 10-cylinder.
They can't call it a Viper truck.
The Rumblebee, I thought, was actually kind of like an overhyped trim package,
but regardless, they needed a cool nostalgic name.
This thing has track mode to your point.
It's got a wide body kit.
I mean, I'm so pumped on this.
Yes, I love the off-road trucks as much as the next guy, but I'm a street truck man.
I love the wheel with the lowered stance, the vented hood again.
It's awesome.
It's crazy.
To me, it's kind of surprising that anybody's going after the street truck market.
The off-roading segment has been so popular and so successful over the last few years
with the Raptor and the TRX and others.
But here we are.
We're doing it.
I agree, but while you're in there over a couple of cold ones,
raising it, lowering it, you might as well do all the configurations
because people are still lowering their trucks.
It's not like that scene disappeared.
Street trucks are no longer as popular as they were
when Ken and I were young boys in Ohio, but they're still pretty popular.
It's also cool.
You got to agree.
It's also super cool that the SVT Lightning, which was a high-performance street truck,
became an electric fork.
Here's Ram going, we're still going to do this.
In this era, when we've all gone electric,
when the Silverado EV is here, when Hummer's an electric brand now,
when Ferrari's releasing that trash, that utter trash,
now we're back, like someone is still in this era.
We thought it was all kind of coming to an end.
And here we are.
It's pretty cool.
I'm really into it.
I love that America has been like the bastion of these like crazy enthusiasts,
gasoline-powered things, and manual transmissions, to be honest.
I'm in Western and sound and like emotion and fun.
I think that is so, I think it is so avarible and cool.
And it makes me like really proud and giddy about this.
Well, and the other thing is, okay, so all the off-road additions,
they still handle terrible.
They're not actually that fast because they have these giant wheels to move through.
3.40 to 60, at least where I come from.
That's real.
That is like actually a fast car.
For the Hellcat version?
Yeah.
Wow.
That's what the Enzo was, 3.5 to 60.
That'll toast most of my cars.
I love that the engine lineup is a 5.7-liter V8, 400 horse,
6.4-liter V8 with 470, or the Supercharged Helik.
There's no straight six, which by the way, the straight six is a great motor.
And honestly, it's better than that base Hemi.
But they know that that's not going to do it, right?
They're just like, we're only going to do V8s.
I mean, it feels like 10 years ago.
It feels like 12, 15 years ago.
It does.
I realize these are probably the last gasps of doing this,
but like, hell yeah, brother, do it.
Hell yeah, brother.
Nick knows what we're talking about.
He goes on his little political events.
I do hope Ford and Chevy follow suit,
and we can get a real lightning again.
They won't.
The best you're going to get from Ford is that Maverick Lobo.
Have you seen one of those on the street?
I'm into those, dude.
Have I seen them?
I've seen them.
I've had some conversations with the dealer.
We're very in touch here.
The conversation with the dealer.
Oh my God.
All right.
Move on to our next news story, please.
Those conversations are just me, Facebook messaging.
I'm still available.
Still available.
And a dealer.
Facebook messaging a dealer.
Hummer and concepts.
The H3 truck is back.
The question nobody asked and no one wanted the answer to.
They debuted a concept of it.
It is wild how much AI they used in announcing this,
including the team rallied around the mantra of take nothing,
but pictures leave nothing but footprints.
That's not just a tagline.
It's the design brief and included the M dashes and everything.
I mean, just like painful.
Okay.
So what on earth does this have to do with take no pictures?
Leave or take nothing but pictures leave nothing but footprints.
Well, because it's a giant heavy EV.
Give me a break.
No, but it's an electric.
It's an electric off-roader.
So the point is it's not polluting.
It's not dumping.
Tell that to the children in Africa mining the lithium.
Okay.
I actually, you know, you say that, by the way, you say that this question,
the answer to the question that no one asked.
I actually would argue that this is more appealing than the existing Hummer EV.
If this is smaller and more affordable, the existing Hummer EV is tremendously
expensive still.
I mean, this, I presume this is going to be like a, like a size step below.
Basically, I wouldn't want to call it mid-size, but, you know, gladiator,
somewhere between a gladiator and a full-size Hummer EV, which,
which was kind of appealing to some people for sure.
Manageable is the word you're looking for.
Well, it looks big in that picture.
I'll tell you, but, but Rivians are in this size segment more or less.
I feel like there's a bit bigger than that, but it's as opposed to the full-size.
I think GM kind of put themselves into a bit of a corner by coming out with the
Silverado EV and the Sierra Hummer EV and making them so big that
they really were bigger than all of their rivals.
And it kind of, it only attracted a very specific buyer who had the space
and desire for that.
And I think there's, there's somebody said for a smaller truck in this segment.
Well, I think much like their press release, they can use AI to revise
anything you don't like about this vehicle.
So send them feedback.
It was designed in Pasadena in a unmarked campus.
So another Skunk Works project.
Again, I'm getting so cynical here about the use of AI and car design.
Maybe that's where the luce went wrong, but...
No, that, that design was intentional.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so bad even AI couldn't do it.
That's right.
By the way, this is, this to be clear, this is a concept.
Like you said, it's not guaranteed for production.
You have to assume though that if they do plan to continue using the Hummer name,
which they revived for the full-size pickup, you have to assume that they're
probably going to go in this sort of direction.
We have a picture up of the, of the full, of the pickup truck, but they also
released a like an SUV, kind of an open-top SUV, which to me, a connoisseur
of open-top SUVs actually looked pretty cool, if I'm honest.
It looked a little dune buggy.
It was designed under the banner, the courage to get lost.
It gets worse and worse the more you read.
It's a good thing that youth these days don't read a lot because it's,
it's going to be terrible for readers.
The youth these days, Karen, the youth these days.
Nick, you don't think the SUV version looks kind of cool?
Have you seen that?
I think mostly because I don't like the current Hummer lineup.
It's just seeing like a shrunk down version of it doesn't appeal to me at all.
But I feel like the Hummer, they had their moment much like the H2 back then.
Like this is the H3 to me.
Like it's over.
If anything, as we joked, it's a sign of an upcoming recession.
That's right.
That Hummer is out there iterating their product line.
Like it's a one-trick pony.
It's okay to be a one-trick pony.
We all love the H1.
Let's just let it die a graceful death.
Again, the Michael Jordan baseball analogy.
Like this is just, it's getting sad.
Now we're turning up Barkley selling GLP ones.
I don't feel quite as strongly.
I am willing.
I'm still waiting for an electric convertible SUV.
I am willing to be a little bit more wait and see on this one.
I think if they do this and it looks like the SUV, I think it could be cool.
At the right price point, I think it could be cool.
There's not enough fun in the EV market, if I'm honest.
There's a lot of BS EVs that are just luxury cars that are kind of boring.
They're fast in a straight line, but they're all kind of appliances.
And I'm always supportive of anybody who wants to come out with something that's not.
I agree.
Give us our next one, Nick.
What do we got?
Oh, yes, the Viper.
Did I not buy a Viper?
I have not bought a Viper.
I knew you were going to say that.
I have not yet bought a Viper.
But there was some news recently that the head of SOT one on a podcast and he said specifically that the Viper will not make a return, which is something I actually agree with and I'm happy about.
And I'll tell you why.
All Viper's are big, naturally aspirated 10 cylinder cars with manual transmissions.
They didn't change the recipe.
It got more sophisticated.
It got better, but it didn't change from the first gen, which damn, that looks so cool.
I know.
You got to do it.
Which I like.
Yeah.
No, but if they were going to bring, we talked about this before.
You said, oh, if they bring it back with a V8.
No, the Viper's never had a V8.
It shouldn't have a V8.
Yeah.
But Kenneth, Kenneth, Kenneth.
There was a time when the 9-11 was a air cooled, small rear end.
The 9-11 never went to a V8 or a force owner.
In the current portion, 9-11, you cannot, the owner of the vehicle cannot access the engine.
Okay.
Well, that's true.
Well, yeah, the Viper customer and a Porsche customer, two very different brands of people.
But my point is that wasn't always the case.
In the 60s and 70s, a Porsche owner was a tinkerer and it was an air cooled enthusiast of a little car.
And that car is now, like things can change.
Cars can change.
Like I would be down for a Viper to return.
No.
I like that the Viper has not returned because I just love that it was an unbroken line of
stubbornness.
Doug, you getting this?
Yes.
So he's not a purist over Ferrari anymore.
They can make 640K EVs.
He's a Viper purist.
The Viper is where he draws the line.
We have to protect the Viper.
I was a proud American.
I feel that we do.
You know what?
They're bringing the Rumblebee back as we discovered.
So I guess they, much like the SRT-10, the Viper truck, they won't bring back the Viper
name plate, but they are basically bringing back everything else about the Viper.
Well, there is something they are talking about.
So there's something that's been kind of nicknamed the Copperhead.
Now, this isn't going to be a Viper, but it's going to be some like ultra muscle car.
I'm guessing kind of a go to like toe-to-toe with like the Mustang GTD and stuff like that.
I have a feeling.
Copperhead's a snake.
It's also a concept car that we all love back in the day at the Scholastic Book Fairs.
Like it's pretty cool.
So again, they're bringing the nostalgia back with just like a name plate one step below
the one that you want to see.
I mean, I would love a Viper to come back with a V10 and a manual.
I would like a Viper to come back down the car elevator parked right behind me that belongs
to you.
I'll make that happen.
Don't you worry.
I'm on it.
Don't worry.
It's going to happen.
But nonetheless, I thought it was interesting.
I mean, of course, we know the 5th Gen Viper got killed off for safety reasons because you
couldn't mount an airbag where it needed to be.
That was the main reason it got killed off.
It actually wasn't to do with emissions and things like that.
I think whatever Chrysler tells you, the 5th Gen Viper got killed off because no one
was buying it.
Well, which also tells you what you need.
Like, I don't know that people would buy another Viper.
I know, but give it a nice twin turbo six cylinder, put in a ZF torque converter automatic.
No.
Destroy the heritage.
That's what they're all doing these days.
That's what everybody's doing.
Do it.
See, Ferrari already did it.
So I'm less like there's nothing I can do at this point, but the Viper, that's a concept.
It doesn't exist yet.
So let's make the next gen BMW M5 go electric.
Well, that's probably going to happen realistically.
Might as well already have.
But a potential copperhead is coming, which allows them to create a sports car without
losing the tradition of the Viper.
Which I'm here for.
I think that it's an interesting idea and a concept and we'll see how that ferments over time.
Dodge is killing it.
They're at the top of the game.
The comeback story no one expected.
Dodge of Stellantis killing it.
Yeah, still wouldn't buy one.
All right.
What else to get?
Other than that, I would buy one of those three spokes and all God, that is a cool looking car.
It is.
I'll make it happen.
Don't worry.
I will make it happen.
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And that's the end of the news.
That's the end.
What a shame.
The end of the news.
We have to get into the talk cars segment.
There's a lot of cars talk to be talked.
Are you guys ready to discuss cars?
I'm buckled in, Doug.
Who's sponsoring the segment?
I'm looking at the, I'll tell you who's sponsoring the segment is the fight that's about to break out between Nick and Ken.
And I'm looking at the, our pod document here and I see that Nick has written E 55 greater than E 39.
All right, go ahead, Nick.
Tell us why you think you're on it.
Let's hear your uneducated opinion.
I do want to hear about your automotive woes here.
Having never driven an E 39 M five.
We'll start there.
I'm confident that the E 55 is God's chariot.
Right.
Comes with a manual after it makes a pit stop in Atlanta.
500 horsepower with a pulley and a tune, maybe a little bit more.
And it came as a station wagon then in the US.
I rest my case.
Yeah.
The E 39 M five did not come as a station wagon anywhere actually.
That's true.
That's the one concept they built.
That's true.
They thought they couldn't sell it out.
That is a slight benefit in the E 55's world.
I will tell you, Nick, your generation of E 55 is a pretty appealing car and possibly better than the E 39 M five.
However, they didn't compete.
The E 39 M five was more or less gone when your E 55 came out.
They're separated by a generation.
I'm sitting around here driving a supercharged station wagon V eight.
I'm thinking of my naturally aspirated sedan only.
Right.
But friend to his point, if you compare two cars like, okay, well then BMW responded with the E 60 M five with an A V 10 and a six speed from the factory.
Yes.
And then there was a little problematic.
Wasn't it?
Yeah.
They didn't have to mod it with some guys in Georgia.
Like that's not like,
Hey man.
Instead, you had to take it to a guy in North Dakota in order to bulletproof it.
Or where is he?
South Dakota?
The guy who does all the S 85s.
Oh, yeah.
No, he said in the, in the Carolinas.
But yes, or take it to Ryan for service, honestly.
Trash talking aside, I think what I'm realizing.
Why do you, why have you come to what makes you say this?
I think, I think you were right about that era of super sports sedan is the era.
They're so wonderful for the money.
E 39 M five E 55 AMG.
It was just like such a special era.
And I've sort of built mine to be how I want it to be.
But like that, I can see why you're so emotionally invested in the E 39 and have all this YouTube content buddy 39s.
And I've become so obsessed because having had my E 55 for a couple of months now, I'm there too.
I'm just like, these cars are perfect.
It's a right blend of analog and modern.
It's daily drivable.
He says that he's obsessed.
We want to put a timer on this to see by the end of summer.
He's obsessed with this just like he was obsessed with his Quattroporte when he got it and all the other stuff.
And the, and then the P 38.
I just had the E 55 fully detailed, pink corrected.
All I left is upholstery, but like the car is now perfect.
And I'm getting, I think I'm getting to your level next where like fender liners, like I'm going to do dry ice blasting.
The brake candle, whatever crazy stuff you do.
It's a 200,000 mile car.
And when I drove it, it was given suspension faults.
Don't put money into this car.
Well, it was only because Sean was sitting in the back and Sean is a larger gentleman.
Oh, Nick, we love him dearly.
Sean at cars and bids.com.
I see you again.
Your car is because it's a beat 200,000 mile wagon.
It didn't have anything to do with Sean.
You could put a piece of a bunch of paper back.
You know what?
I think, I think the confusion stems from my car is air ride because it has a superior ride quality and you're used to more of a static.
I'm just, I'm, I'm guessing just like a McPherson strut, like old school combo.
Correct.
As modern enthusiasts here, we get air ride.
The great reliable system that people love.
You're mocking him.
You don't understand.
You don't understand the relationship that you have with your car.
He has the, over 15 years, he has developed with his car over 15 minutes.
He has the same relationship that you do.
I do.
He's going to get fender liners done, Kenan.
He's going to do the fender liners.
My binder is a little skinnier, but I think that's just a reliability difference.
You know, I get this a little, it's like, it reliability means you can rely upon the car to get somewhere.
My M5 is like, I'm obsessive about making it perfect.
There's a big difference between the two.
Like it's the car.
I could have not done a lot of service I'd done in the car would have run in functions,
function is transportation reliably, but I wanted perfection.
So that's what I've strived for.
There's a big difference there.
And I agree with the 15 minutes versus 15 years thing though, that is a wild.
I am glad you're happy with the car, Nick.
I think it's an excellent car.
I am reminded again that the mid 2000s were the golden era of the auto.
They really were.
But I'll tell you this, if you could still continue to say that it's better, you do need to drive
an E39 M5 finds the one to drive.
So at some point you'll have to brave up and do the keys to the most precious object in my life.
Well, do you want Nick to have that experience and then tell you what he honestly thinks?
Are you sure you want that?
I mean, also, also remember he money shifted a TTRS.
Oh, that's a good point.
Maybe I should maybe he still needs to master driving a manual.
That's true.
I'm getting denying that anymore, which is interesting.
I had never money shifted.
Speaking of E39 M5s, Ken, and you want to talk about yours that's up?
Yes.
Not mine's like in terms of my actual car, but I do have an M5 that is live right now
on the cars and the bids there.
So this one belongs to representing this car on behalf of the owner.
So this car has 45,000 miles on it.
So recently I got to drive this car compared to mine.
The thing I realized is like there you made a point a couple of weeks ago that maybe I
should have sold mine and gotten a lower mileage fund.
Well, I was making that point about the 4GT.
I do think that when you can, I do think that it's hard to really realize how much has worn
as you can drive the car over time until you drive a really nice one.
And then you're like, oh, this feels totally different.
Like these things sort of happened over time and I didn't really notice them.
And I've been on top of replacing wear items, but even then stuff gets squidgy.
And you know, it's just not quite the same.
That was the thing that shocked me is the platform when like refresh like mine,
they drive this very much the same.
But the big difference, which is like very impressive after 200 and almost approaching
260,000 miles of over five times the mileage of this car.
But the thing blew me away.
The real thing that blew me away was the quality of like the interior and like how nice.
Yeah, everything.
That's the thing that was different between my car and this is like mine just has wear
over all of you.
And this thing is so damn fresh.
Look at that.
I mean, it was like, I just like couldn't get over how like nice and soft everything
was and like like the leather looked like never like that.
That was the big thing I realized.
It's like, I know maybe that's very obvious.
Like a lot of people give low mileage cars a lot of guff.
The difference with this one is it was service basically every single year
religiously since 2000.
And it has every piece of service documentation back to like the original
sales slip with like the guy's beeper number on it.
Like I geeked out very hard on this car.
But it's like, you know, it's the sale of the cars and bids and it looks beautiful.
And it's a very special car as is every really good ether 95 and every really good 211 E 55
AMG Nick.
There you go.
Yep.
What about you, Doug?
Any car problems over there in the island one weekend?
Yeah, I'm, it's time to, it's time to move on from the G wagon.
I think we're all kind of in agreement about that.
Wow.
Yeah.
So that's, that's the end.
Nick, you want to say your goodbyes?
You want to, I can make a good deal on an L 405 cab.
I have no interest in that car.
One, you were the person that talked me into buying it and two, it does as someone,
you drove it and I believe, and I quote mostly from memory here, it's so much more comfortable
than the G and so much better than the G at everything it does.
And I'll sell it to you for the same money you get out of the G cab.
The L 405 cab is wonderful, but you know, we, we, we, my wife and I,
we live in the East coast in the summer and I think I need a car that I can,
that I'm going to leave here.
It's just gotten cumbersome to get the G all the way out here and then to deal with its
myriad problems.
This is the third year that G's been here and it's the third year that it has stranded
me and it's just not, it's just not how I want to be spending my time.
It's not, it has not stranded me.
What happened is the, the ABS system is malfunctioned, which is not, not a big deal
except that the car must derive wheel speed from the ABS somehow.
And so the speedometer doesn't function and because the speedometer doesn't function,
the transmission won't shift that a second because it doesn't know how fast the car is going.
And I Googled this and there's actually people who have had this problem and I could just
start throwing random parts at it.
I've ordered some very expensive Mercedes Benz scan tool, but mostly, I mean,
the car runs in drives just slowly.
Mostly I just am tired of it.
I've got other priorities now and I definitely do not want to continue dealing with this
thing.
So much like your Jalopnik days, let's, let's throw out a couple cars and have the listeners
vote.
What should be the next Doug car?
It'll be either a Jeep Wrangler or a Ford Bronco, least from the dealership.
Hopefully a model year old.
It's cheap as possible.
You know, I have to give it to you.
Like you've done the hard thing for a long time, specifically with the defender, getting
the defender there and that stranded you also and all those things.
This is the 11th summer we've been here.
We've had car trouble almost every summer, which is unbelievable because it's only 90
days.
You know, my 200 series Land Cruiser stranded me on two occasions here.
My G-Wagon has now been three, my yellow defender broke down twice, my Silver Ranger
broke down once, even the Sequoia last year coming home.
I had a flat tire, but that was in Tennessee.
It was a little easier to figure out and it's not really the car's fault.
I just, I don't want to have car problems anymore.
We got a lot of kids now and it's just not worth it.
So I want to get something with a locker and all terrains and that's all like, and I,
it's all I care.
And a low lease price.
That's all I care about.
Can I, can I pause it to you another concept?
Yeah.
By the way, I might, I might actually do this in the next two or three weeks.
We'll call up General Motors.
I need you to muster the courage to get lost, take nothing but pictures.
You know, that, that Hummer EV SUV thing that they showed with the open roof, I would be
interested in that.
I would love a Toyota.
If Toyota would give me a forerunner with an open top, I would absolutely get that.
That would no question about it.
I would buy that car.
We've been using our Sequoia.
I've been making fun of our Sequoia on this podcast for a year.
We got our Sequoia here now and the kids are now into off-roading.
And so we just had a tantrum because I wouldn't take the bumpy roads home from lunch.
Aw, amazing.
And the car is covered in mud.
I mean, covered in mud right now.
And we got, we have four children, three adults, four children under 53 adults, the
dog.
We're taking on the beach.
We're going through the mud.
The Sequoia is perfect.
It is absolutely perfect for what I have.
I love it.
And I wish there was a Toyota Jeep Wrangler.
And the forerunner is that in theory, but not, I hope I actually will use the open top
every day.
And I wish there was a Toyota.
And I think the styling lends it well for all the rallies that you go to and all the,
you know, causes that you support.
Of the Sequoia, you mean?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just fits your vibe well.
I think.
Is it the only one out there?
It must be the only one.
Really?
There are more than.
Any off-road SUV you can imagine people are driving in an off-road climate.
And the Sequoias especially, I mean, in the New England is still a place where people have
sort of bigger Catholic families.
This sort of vibe of, you know, big family kind of thing.
And so there's a lot of suburban's and which I don't see much of in California anymore.
And there's a lot of Yukon XL's and there's a lot of that stuff.
And so there's a lot of big stuff.
And yeah, Sequoia saw a solar octane just today.
Wow.
But I think the G, even before it broke, I drove it a little bit here and I'm thinking,
you know, it's old.
And it's a flex, but it's like, I'm not really, I'm done.
I'm done flexing.
My flexing days are over.
But meanwhile we have the, yeah, you have the Kuntosh for out here to flex with.
When you go to East Egg, you don't flex as much.
West Egg, you can flex all your way.
I enjoy that car from a pure enjoyment perspective.
I find it interesting.
This is a guy, he had the Defender, had the Defender 90 and then Tuckett couldn't handle
it, sold it to get a Mercedes.
So it'd be nicer.
Can't handle that.
Couldn't even handle a Land Cruiser.
And now he's looking to lease a Bronco when you're just like, oh, that, that, that makes
sense.
No dude, come on.
He's Doug Demiro, chief car officer of cars and bids.
And he's going to lease a Bronco for $1.99 a month and hope that he gets serious XM on
the island.
He has a 4GT, a 4GT to Kuntosh.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And my, my mom has a duvet cover that doesn't make her a bedding expert.
I don't know.
I wasn't sure where I was going.
I don't know where you were trying to go with that.
I got nine cars now.
I got nine cars now, Nick.
And I got, we're, we got another child coming.
I haven't announced that on this podcast yet, but I got another child.
Wow.
This will be number one.
Yeah.
What a shock.
I know.
Unbelievable.
And, and it's, it's, there's, there's just not, you know, when you're, when you're,
I have this thing and I tell this a lot to people who are in their twenties that they need
a headache.
Like in your life at that age, you need a headache.
Like you need something that like causes trouble that like helps you figure out how to work
on cars, figure out how to buy and sell cars, figure out how to solve problems on the go.
And I had those cars, you know, a lot of them at that age.
And I just, I have a different headache now.
And, and so I, I don't need that anymore.
It's over.
I've been doing it.
We've been out here with, with unusual special cars for, for more than 10 years.
And it's just, just time to focus on other stuff.
I hate to say it.
I've got a bunch of amazing cars back home and I will say one thing that has pushed me
more towards this direction is how much the kids have embraced sports cars at the house
in back in California.
They really love driving in the 993 and in other future four seat cars.
And the fact that they're already getting into those kind of suggests to me that this is,
this will be an okay transition.
The tragedy is your space constraint because I, in my opinion,
the optimal solution is to have one unreliable car and then one reliable car,
which you kind of have, but like the more you can add,
the more you can rely on one being a headache and just be like, like my P 38,
I took it camping with the kids the other week.
It blew spewed cool into everywhere.
I flagged down a good Samaritan.
He gave me like a giant jug of water.
I dumped it in there, limped it to the Walmart 20 minutes away,
and then tried to use like the flex tape to put, put it back together.
And like, like then my wife sent it and smoke starts coming out the air vents
and she just jumps out, gets the kids and starts walking.
And I'm like, oh, okay.
It was part adventure, but also part like, are we going to make it home?
It's a two hour drive.
And I had to like lose a whole day of the vacation,
like going from pet boys to auto zone to a Riley's trying to find the right size
coolant pipe to fix this in a parking lot.
So I get your argument, but it's, it's nice to have some level of headache in there.
And when I'm in California, I don't mind that stuff.
I mean, my Kuntas broke down a couple of times and I've had other stuff
and it can be kind of fun.
And if you know, there's a shop.
I don't have a shop here.
There's not a shop here.
There's not a Mercedes Benz diagnostic tool on our island and there's no real way
to get a car onto the island.
So if I get it off to get it diagnosed, I can't have it back.
And, and it's, I, as a result of that, it's just not how I want to be spending my time.
I spent three hours yesterday pulling, pulling and testing every fuse, you know,
like, but, and, and, and putting the hood in the service position, which in my car,
you have to undo the thing and opening up a cover and, and looking at all the soul,
the connections of the soldiering.
And it's like, I, I'm, I, this isn't high.
Yeah. The soldiering.
This isn't how I want to spend my time.
It's just not anymore.
It's a revered car repair process.
Nick.
I think it's great.
You and Sean are both admitting defeat at the same time.
Yeah.
Both do you have G wagons?
G wagons killed them both.
They will tell you.
I will tell you two things.
If I was in California, if it was, if it's only about California, I would keep it.
Number two, I have driven my car 25,000 miles, which in a, in a 25 year old flappy top, 12
mile per gallon vehicle, a short wheelbase vehicle.
That's pretty legit.
I wish Sean is making a variety of hand gestures.
Sean's faces have never been more disgusted in his life.
It's time, Sean.
We're getting a Jeep.
We're getting a Jeep.
We're going to go and get a,
Sean should get to, he can't decide on what to get as a next daily.
Maybe you guys should just head over to slantis group.
I just got done saying I would never buy a Chrysler.
I just got done saying I would never buy a Chrysler.
And I am actively probably going to buy one in this month.
Right. Well, you're going to end up with that.
Sean on up with a Jeep.
I'll get a Viper.
I'll get a rumblebee.
We've switched from Mercedes to slantis.
Rumblebee.
We've got a bunch of cool new cars coming.
I still got multiple Mercedes.
Don't ever, me and Hoover, you're never going to not have multiple Mercedes.
Okay.
Hoover.
Hoover's episode was so good.
Should that transition us actually to the market report?
Yeah, sure.
Unless there's any on your site.
Next up, we got to move on to the market report.
And the big thing to talk about this week,
not just as a cars and bids evangelist,
which I now am,
but just as a human being is the cars that we sold at velocity,
which was the sales were unbelievable.
Start with the skyline,
which was kind of my favorite of the cars.
Interesting.
That was your favorite.
Yeah.
Well, the TZ was my favorite to drive and use,
but this car, midnight purple stock R34,
I just like,
I can't even tell you how many times I just clicked on this listing just to look at it.
We sold that car for $375,000.
Very market correct.
Unbelievable car.
Just so cool to see that car sell.
So cool to see the alpha TZ sell,
which we did sell post auction.
So cool to see all of those cars, honestly.
And in some of them,
that beautiful five Ferrari 550 sold and sold for good money.
Some of the cars,
I really didn't,
I was very curious if they would find a buyer,
if I want to put it charitably.
And they did not because they were bad,
but just because they were very special kind of very niche cars.
And they did.
And it was, it was quite, quite a sale,
quite an unbelievable Saturday watching all of those results come in.
I was bummed that I couldn't be there
because again, I caught Ferrari luce,
but I was very proud of my car that was there,
the Saracan Performante,
which yet again,
I want to emphasize this guy had the guts to go no reserve
and did it with great pictures and stuff like that.
And it brought a very strong result,
especially compared to another one we sold recently.
So like, they don't come up for so often.
So, but nonetheless,
like I was very,
I wish really sincerely wish I could have been there at the event
to watch all the cars close.
My understanding was like,
lots and lots of people came up and said hello.
And like, there was a lot of action, which was really cool.
And I hope cars are missed because to do another event like this
because I've been begging to do an in-person event for years.
Because I think it is just the coolest.
The Huracan Performante sale that you had was a huge sale result
because the car was so beautifully presented
and so wonderfully done by you.
The video that you did and all that stuff,
the, and the, and the photos are great.
And like you said, no reserve is a great presentation
of a car that needed no excuses.
The 430 Scoot result was is one to talk about.
Yeah, let's call it that for a second.
There has cars and bins has kind of created a market here for this car
or set a market value at least for this car
that there had not been a public sale of a 430 Scoot in almost a year.
And except for the one at Meekum with the Bachman collection
where they were all crazy colors.
And that one sold for like a million bucks,
but it was also a car with two miles.
And you know, as part of an auction where everything went for crazy money.
So it wasn't really part of a market, I would say.
And so there was a lot of questions to what is a 430 Scoot worth.
And we didn't know when we rolled the dice on this auction,
we were curious.
There just hadn't been a result since a lot of cars kind of went up
in value over the last year, six months.
And the $653,000 sale surprised us.
I was offered that car not too many moons ago for less money
and probably should have done it.
Let's be clear, we all should have bought a 430 Scoot.
I almost bought a Scoot instead of my SLR
and I was Facebook message low balling one actually in NorCal.
And they wanted like 300 for it.
And it was also black.
And I thought, oh, I don't really want black.
I guess that's an okay deal though.
Like, holy moly.
Yeah.
And this one had some miles on it, 16,000 miles on it too.
Like this was like a great litmus test for the,
and a temperature check for the entire market for the 430.
You do?
Totally.
It's totally not a top of the market example.
Totally.
I think this was the perfect car to sell
because it was a no stories car,
but it was also not a zero mile,
oh, who knows what other ones are worth.
This was a pretty middle of the road 430 Scoot
and it sold for what I think is pretty big money for one of these.
But I think this kind of goes to show
what the market is doing
and how the market thinks these cars are valued now.
Probably coming off of Luce was beneficial is my guess.
I have a feeling there's people out there
who are saying this brand is ruining itself.
Let's go after what we still can afford.
And that probably helped us.
It's funny, the 430 Scoot, I've always loved them.
I think in our group, I was like,
oh, I'd love to see one around someday.
And someone was like,
there's one at Cars and Coffee all the time.
You just walk right by it
because it looks so similar to the normal 430
and so many people mod their 430s to look like one.
You do see them actually.
I mean, obviously privileged, so-called point of view, whatever.
But they're very subtle.
Even in the office,
I loved how raw and aggressive it looked,
but also it looks like a 430.
I do think that's the drawback of a car
and I think that's the one thing that stopped me
from ever seriously pursuing one.
It's a version of a car.
I'm not a big version guy.
I like to buy a car that is special,
like the whole car, like a Countach,
doesn't matter which one, the whole thing is special.
The 430 Scoot, yeah, to your point,
they look like 430s.
It's an explanation is required.
Nick once said this about my SL65.
He's like, I don't buy versions of cars.
I buy the SLR, the special car.
You were big dog at me on everything else.
That was the only thing left to defend my decision.
Anyway, those were all amazing results.
Ken and I'm sure the seller of that Lamborghini was thrilled.
Yeah, very much so.
That was a really strong number.
We had our targets that we were aiming for,
even with it being no reserve,
but it really came together.
Again, underscores, I saw the car in person,
so I knew how nice it was.
Alcantara looked like it had never been touched.
The guy is fanatic about detailing.
He has a couple other Lamborghinis as well,
and they're all the same level of clean.
It's just unbelievable.
Nonetheless, we're coming up on almost six years
of cars and bids now.
Doug, I think when we're sitting there in the early days,
hoping to get some cars,
my vision for where cars and bids could go
is to sell cars like these.
But to have a group like this in one place to sell,
that's a milestone thing.
I just have to give credit to the team.
I'm really working hard to put everything together
to make this happen, to get the cars there.
Then the actual team members who showed up
to make sure everything ran smoothly,
and all the auction riders,
and all the work that everybody's done,
this is such a banner moment for the company.
I think that's totally true.
I think it really is a proof of concept
of what cars and bids is and can do.
There's always been this kind of perception
of cars and bids.
Is it as good as some of the other places?
There's an auction site out there
that sells primarily dealer to dealer these days.
I really think that cars and bids has proven,
this is proof of what we all already knew.
The audience is there, the cars are special.
We can sell them, and we can get not only market correct values,
but set real numbers.
Cars and bids continues to prove that.
I'm so proud.
I know this is a Cars and Bids podcast.
We don't often do stupid over-the-top
gushy advertising for our own company,
but I'm very proud of this company.
Especially as people who built it.
All the people you can't see behind the scenes
who have built this thing.
Real car enthusiasts that have been here
for a very long time.
To have seen this thing come from zero
to where it is now in six years
is very admirable and impressive.
I'm proud to be a small part of that chapter.
It's really cool.
Velocity was super cool.
Also, the pictures were insane.
Like F1s and T50s,
and I had so much FOMO
as someone who was not there.
You going next year?
It falls on my daughter's birthday,
so I don't think I'll ever be able to go
if it keeps falling on that same weekend.
Instead, we had a lovely experience
at a petting zoo, and just watched
a bunny rabbit poop.
What'd you pet, dude?
What'd you pet?
A mini horse,
a turtle, a bunny,
a ghost.
I know what he's going to say, but go ahead.
If they do many horses,
why not do a mini rhino when we domesticate it?
Wouldn't you love to have a rhino in your place?
I'm going to take it back.
Yeah, I would like a
R.H.O. in my place.
Okay.
I want to talk about Hoovey's cars.
Hoovey sold his cars.
Are you upset about this, Nick, at all?
I am because he offered me his Mybox 62
when we were filming
our Eurocar adventure.
He offered it for $36.969.
I was like, I should take it.
I think it's worth well more than that.
Just financially alone, I should take it,
but I had just been destroyed
by that Arnaj, and I couldn't fathom
the idea of another early
2000s luxury car.
But he got
$53,200 for it,
which I don't even think that was a crazy result.
Well, it's definitely a strong result,
but the fact that I knew I could have low-balled him
from $36.969 probably got him down
to like $34.33.
Man, I lost some money that day.
Yeah.
No, I mean, 20 Gs sitting on the table.
That could have been 20 Gs.
You could have bought for 20 Gs.
You know how many P38s you could buy?
He also sold one of those.
No, I begged to differ.
He sold one for $10,000
that he bought at Barrett Jackson
for like $3,600, if I recall correctly,
from his videos.
So, if I were Tyler Hoover
and, you know,
that's just some friendly advice here,
perhaps, perhaps, instead of
offering me his cars at a discount,
he should be selling them on cars and bids
and obtaining the full market value of those vehicles.
I hope to capture
his SLR upside that I think
he also may be left on the table,
but he absolutely killed it, dude.
Also $16.5 for that Cadillac
sedan to build. Yeah, it was
in Breaking Bad, but I mean, that is
a $650 car otherwise.
Yeah, totally. Sometimes it's easier
to just sell the car to
Cheapskate Nick as he calls you
and just kind of let it happen, you know?
Yeah.
Okay, we got it.
Hoover did well. Hoover got money now.
He's good. He's going to repair his engine
at his 300 SL. We can't wait to see him again
when his next round of financial misfortune arrives.
Do we all agree?
Yeah, but I just can't wait to see him again.
I love Tyler. I would hope that he comes
sooner, but he doesn't seem to.
He only seems to come when there's financial
misfortune.
Okay, I want to talk about the
I want to move on to questions.
Are you ready for the questions?
The questions are sponsored by Hoover's
engine failure
997, which sold
for 18 or something,
which also seems like all the money.
First
question is from
A.E. DeVito. Nick, you see this question?
A few weeks ago, Doug mentioned
the pod. He had a Facebook Marketplace story
he was going to share in a later pod. It's been a few pods.
He still hasn't shared the story. Alright, you want to share the story?
Here's what happened.
I found an E55 wagon
that I wanted, a 210, the good body
on Facebook Marketplace.
I was ready to buy
the car that moment.
Like, let's just
send a message to the guy. Nothing.
Finally, he gets back to me at like 10, 11
p.m. I could call you right now.
I'm like, I'm good.
Next day, I call him.
I say, hey, what's the status of the car?
You got the title? Yeah.
Can you send me anything?
Picture is underside? Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
How about you do that?
Like, I'm ready to buy the car. I want to see
underside photos and a picture of the title.
Okay.
Four days went by
and of me just
pestering him nonstop, including at one point
he goes, I got a guy come up from the Bay Area.
He says he's going to buy the car
and he was selling another one and he's going to buy both of them.
And I'm like,
okay, sell them.
You know, every time somebody says that to me.
And then go back
and forth. Have you got the pictures yet?
I'll get them by five.
Seven rolls around. You got the pictures yet?
Oh, and at one point he said, what did he say?
He locked himself out of his house.
The next day he had some family
emergency. I mean, it was just
unending Facebook marketplace
BS.
And each day would go by, he'd
set his own deadline for when he was going to give me
whatever he had asked for. Two
things and he would miss his own deadline.
Finally, he sends me a
video and underside the car
there's just a ton of chassis paint.
And to me, chassis
paint is worse than rust. The moment I see chassis
paint, I just bailed because I don't know what you did.
I would rather see rust and just
start going after it myself. And in this case, I actually
would have bought the car if it was rusty, but he showed me the chassis
paint and I realized two things.
One was I wasn't going to be buying the car. And number two was
the reason he had needed the four days
was because he needed to get
the chassis paint on the car and let it dry.
That's what happened.
And that is Facebook
marketplace in a nutshell. And you know, that was my first
ever Facebook marketplace experience. I'm an old
school Craigslist man. I used to buy a bunch
and sell a bunch of trash on Craigslist,
which was the same sort of experience. But when I was
in my twenties, that was OK.
I don't do Facebook marketplace and I am reminded
of why. And I understand that listing
on cars and bids or bring the trailer, it's harder.
I get that.
It's worth it.
Well, that barrier blocks
people like that from listening because they never get around
to completing their listing. That is exactly
it. That is exactly it.
And yes, people are like, oh, the commenters are annoying.
You know what's annoying?
Dealing with the type of people who are
selling stuff on Facebook or buying
stuff on Facebook marketplace. And I was
a buyer who was real legitimately
wire ready in the
moment. Like if he had said to me, here's
here's some pictures without the chassis
paint he put on. He also messed
up the van and sent the wrong van or the wrong
car at some point. He was just so scattered.
And I'm like, this is a chaotic person
and I'm not doing like this is what Facebook
marketplace is. It's an utter
dumpster fire.
And from that
moment, I lost a little respect for Nick
because I realized like he's one of these people.
He thrives in this
environment. That's the thing. You know, you
might be an old school Craigslist guy.
I'm a big eBay fan for
selling old paraphernalia
and stuff around the house for cars.
I've sold all of them on cars and bids for
the most part for the last five
so years. So because of this, I assume.
Yeah. Yeah. No, it weeds out a lot of the
un-series buyers because as a seller,
you sure I might be flaky, but
like you get so many weird scammers
and weird stuff and like
people wasting your time.
Like it's actually a waste of time on both
sides. Yeah. So selling their cars and
bids like does like one. Yeah.
I only have to answer the comment once. I don't
have to like keep republishing it like
things there in one place. Cars and bids makes
you put in the time in the front end
and a lot of people don't want to do that.
And what they don't realize is they're going to end
up putting in the same amount of time in
a lot of ways. Like on the back
end dealing with all the BS. It's easier
to just take two cell phone pictures and put it
up on Facebook Marketplace, but then the
trash happens.
God, it was a horrible experience. Never again.
Okay.
Next question.
Next question. Next
question. I haven't looked at the questions
yet.
Who's your tax advisor? Do not sell
the 4GT for another 4GT and he
goes into the whole thing. Capital gains and all
that. Folks, we declare anything. Nick,
you ever declare anything? Nick makes zero
income according to the IRS people. Come on.
That is definitely not true. Do not audit
me.
I
have an accountant. Thank you. We pay quarterly.
I
don't know how it works in terms of
declaring gains on cars.
I plead ignorance, Your Honor.
Yeah.
I've also
not really had that situation
ever happen.
I think if you take all the losses
for the Arnaj and so on
and then the wins for the other cars,
I think I would be blessed to be break
even.
You've had wins.
The mercy
did well. The first
P38 I made a little money on, that will
definitely be cancelled up by the second P38.
Even though
it was free.
Let's just
say I saw Hoobie's 10K result for his P38
and I was awfully jealous.
I thought, oh, that looks like a life raft. I'd still
lose money on it, but it would be an acceptable
outcome.
Next question from Horse Meatballs. Hey, Doug
and Side Characters, now that the Luce
has been unveiled, at what price point would it
become an attractive buy in the used
market?
I don't think there's a number quite low enough.
No.
No.
I don't want an electric Ferrari.
I don't.
For 2100 bucks,
you wouldn't get a 0 to 60.
It's like the Cybertruck where at some point
it becomes cheap enough
that you just buy it as a utility vehicle.
I wouldn't want to be seen.
It's pretty embarrassing, so you would need to be
compensated beyond just the stats
to say, this also offsets the fact that
I'd be embarrassed to be seen in it.
So it's whatever a
equivalent EV, like a Tesla
Model S Plaid,
then I would want maybe 30% off
of a Model Plaid to compensate for the fact
that I'd have to be seen driving it.
Yeah.
That's probably accurate.
You don't think the Ferrari badge, I do think
being seen driving it is going to be a real
drawback.
The type of people who think that's cool,
oh my god.
Can you imagine?
I can and I suspect we'll run into them,
but I think that I'd rather be seen
so much rather be seen in a Mondial.
That is to me much cooler and in an ironic way
and that's a much more appealing car.
You always do, if you are not, it was the car
that you'd fire someone's dad in.
The Luce is the car
that you deployed an AI agent to wipe
out the entire company.
It's just such an
evil tech overlord if you own this car.
I don't think any
serious person that was buying that car,
the tech overlords you're talking about
are way too sophisticated
to participate in this.
I really think F1.
Yeah, and Mark Zuckerberg's PR
people advise them to buy certain
cars and wear a chain.
Which I also think was a PR stun
to appear cool.
I don't even think those guys, I think they
would realize the reputational harm and not be willing
to be seen in it.
Yeah, I think so.
A couple other good questions actually.
This one from Ian J.
Doug, will FL5 Civic type R values
ever fall? I see dealers on your site
selling for sticker or over with some miles
on them. Where do you see that market going?
It's actually an interesting question because
those cars, we just
had a sale of the previous
generation and I was thinking this exact same
thing.
Kenan, pull up.
Kenan and I are both busy googling FL5
Civic.
FL5 Civic is
the current
body
style.
We just had a sale of a previous one
a couple of months ago
in the mid to high 20s
and I was having the same thoughts, although in the
mid to high 20s you are starting to see decline.
But it is interesting to me, those cars
have really, really, really, really held
their value well.
You're looking at 2017 models at $27,000
with real miles
on them, 50,000, 60,000 miles.
And I have to assume the FL5
market will follow the market of the previous
generation car and
it's going to be a slow depreciation curve.
But the benefit is, if you buy one,
yes, it's a high price of entry for
I think what the car is, especially as it starts to age,
but it's a very reliable car,
it's fun to drive and you don't lose much.
And you really want the FL5 and not the earlier
body, which is heinous.
Right, it looks less
heinous than I remember them looking
as time has gone on, but it's still
it's a lot of styling. It is a lot of
styling. Of the old one. Of the
earlier car, yeah. Yeah, the FK.
I love the FL5
Civic Type R. I personally prefer the Integra
and I would suggest that, but those haven't
depreciated either. The market's wise to that whole thing.
Next question, and
this is a great one from Colby
Caso. This is a question
Ken and I discuss a lot. Hey, Doug,
an esteemed co-host, I really wanted to buy a
550 Maranello in the next couple of years.
In 2024, Rosso Corsa
manual 550 sold for
117.5. Over the weekend,
cars and bids sold one for
$240,000. Same year, same
color, transmission, similar miles.
Is that now the going rate for
a 550 these days?
I mean, we,
Ken and I talk a lot about like a lot of the cars,
whatever your scale
is, there are a lot
of cars that you're going to just not be able to buy.
Like, yeah. I've always
been, you know, I have been kind of depressed
recently. I mean, it's great to see
like, especially as a platform to see the cars
selling for a lot, but as an enthusiast who loves
them, it feels like
the goalpost has moved quite a bit.
And I think that there are a number
of reasons for that, in addition to like the cars
that seems to want to produce
now, but also like, you know, these
cars are 25 years
or older. They've hit that classic of like
what we dreamt of them as kids,
now people have disposable income and they're going up.
People also become a lot more hip
to them being into cars and speak, and information
is a lot more out there. People know about these cars.
I agree. I've also started to notice
really a lot that cars
have become an alternative investment in a way
that... Oh, no question.
But in a way that I think 15 years ago
it wasn't. And 15 years ago, there were
four cars that rose in value and
even then, you were kind of
lucky if you broke even after insurance
and storage and all that. These days, there's kind
of an expectation
among people who buy some of these older cars
that they will rise in value. And so they've become
kind of stores of money
and investment vehicles.
Which, yeah, if you're a car enthusiast
there's some sadness
there that like a lot of these cars are gone.
But I think it's not just
happening to say 550 Maranello's. You look
at the whole market and it's happening and I think
yes, young people are getting the money.
More people have more money.
People are looking at cars as an investment
and people, yes, are more aware too of
values and of what it takes to own these cars
and that sort of thing. And I really think
that cars are becoming similar to art
kind of, people are looking at it kind of
like an investment. Yes, I
agree wholeheartedly with all of that. I hate to
use the word investment because anytime you say it to a car
enthusiast, we all get up in arms about it.
Which I don't think is unreasonable necessarily.
But yeah, it used to be that like we used to
say that cars are horrible investments. It's like
well, not all of them. There are some that
not all of them. And these days, not even
that many of the release of the, if
you're even smart a little, GT3
RS's, 997
GT3 RS's are $600,000
cars now. Like if you didn't go
and buy a rich guy go fast, you
know, a stupid McLaren or something
that is just going to completely depreciate,
like there are a lot of cars
out here that really have gone up in value
and a lot of people probably think they're brilliant
but maybe it's more people entering the market,
maybe it's this, maybe it's that. But I think
a lot of people need to reset their expectations on
what they're going to be able to afford.
I know I have, there were cars that I thought
I got to this level, I'd be able to afford
and I can't. And I know you feel the same way, Ken.
And it's kind of funny that like, it doesn't matter
what your level is, you're still sitting here thinking,
damn, some of these cars are out of reach.
Yeah. Well, this 355
is a good example. I had a 355.
Is it a Spider? 96 Spider,
red tan colors, you know, 25,000 miles,
which is low ish sold for 143
5 for a spider, not a GTB,
not a GT as a spider.
So like we're definitely, there's definitely
moving us. My advice always
is like, buy a car you love,
because if, whether it goes up or
if it goes up awesome, great for you, that makes
the end of ownership experience much better.
But if it doesn't, or
it goes down,
then at least you had some fun memories
you got and use it. That does make it a more
appealing thing than having, you know, buying
more index funds than having being a ledger on
a computer screen. Like, at least
you know what my problem is and
will remain is that
I bought my 4GT for
225,000 and in my head
that's still a 225,000
car. I know.
That's what I paid.
And so like, when I see like the 993
Turbo at 240 and I sit here and I'm like
that's insane. You could buy a 4GT
for that. Well, no, everything
is up and it's just crazy
to me what a $200,000
car now is. What a $100,000
special car now is.
It really, it's not what it used
to be for sure. What applies everywhere
in the market? My AE36M3, I bought
for $6,500. Now it's like getting
a good AE36M3. It's like you're
in the mid-20s. So it's like
you know, it's everything. I think it's
also just human nature across all
assets. Like you always want a house that's
about 20% out of your budget. You want a car
that's about 20% out of your budget. You want
a pair of sunglasses like Ryan Lopez has
that costs $1,000 but
you can only afford the like
who's today's sponsor? Warby Parker,
the best sunglasses out there.
You get my point, right?
Like we always want the thing that's
just slightly out of reach that
includes. Yes, but my point was
and the guy writing in his point is
we thought if we got to a certain
dollar number we'd be able to get. I didn't
always want an F40 because it was slightly out of reach
but it has certainly gotten that way
and I thought that if I got to a certain point I'd be able
to afford one and I'm sure you feel that way
about some of the cars that you were thinking like
550s were
$100,000 cars for a long time
and it was like oh I need $100,000 I can go buy
a 550. Well even at
$150,000 it's like that I mean it's a lot of money
but it's like oh it's doable. Well now at like
$300,000 in some cases for really nice
examples it's like that's just becoming
untenable. It really is.
But
it is interesting the places the cars that haven't
done that or the cars that are going the opposite
direction.
Well
on that topic the final
question I want to get to
is question for all from JP Felner
what is the number one rich guy go fast
car? On this podcast I sometimes
complain about cars
that rich people buy thinking that they're cool
just because they're fast.
And they're not cars
that enthusiasts would buy. They're not enthusiast
cars and
I call them rich guy go fasts
because it's just a car rich guy goes into
dealer he's got a little he just sold the company
he's got some money he wants people to respect him and think
he's cool so he goes and buys
and I think to me the number
one is the Maserati
Gran Turismo. I think that that at $240,000
whatever those cost
is like the deepest rich guy
go fast. But it's a McLaren
also what else is it?
The entire McLaren
modern McLaren product line all of it
like that's the epitome to me
because it shows yeah
I mean the great drivers cars but that's not
why most people buy them. I totally agree
I completely agree I think the
765 LT I would hold out as a little bit
of an exception. I think it takes a little bit
of I think
as a rich guy go fast I think you just
don't you don't understand
what makes that car special do you know what I mean?
So you would just get a 750S because it's like
they look the same and they're both really fast
everybody's gonna think I'm cool. It requires
a little bit more enthusiast
capability to understand the 765 LT
other than that yes
the McLaren line number.
I was gonna say the SF90
because it requires
a certain level of unsophisticated Ferrari buyer
at the moment. Yeah that's so true
the SF90 absolutely requires somebody
who doesn't understand that they're gonna get hosed
that's true. A lot of people
have moved into the modern GT3RS
it used to be Huracans for this case
and now a lot of people buy
that and I'm not so it's like I understand
a lot of sophisticated people buy those cars too but
the number of GT3RS
as I see and I realize we live in Southern California
but we see them a lot they're around
like car week this year that was like
the performance car we saw the most
I do think
I think that enough of those sell to real enthusiast
that it's not quite on that level yet
I think that like
I would argue that basically no SF90
sold to real enthusiast. That's true
that is true I can't think of many
I was thinking your 911 too because
you can't assume there's
a wide variety from the hardcore
track enthusiast to the
rich guy go fast but
if it has a giant circle
on the door with a number in it
it's suspicious of you. I
think there's a high degree of probability
that we won't have much in common even if it is
some special edition and you are a real enthusiast
unless it's a 4GT heritage
am I right? Even then
we're a little questionable.
What about the number of well-telling?
Unless it's number 99 and I think you're way in Gretzky
then I will definitely have a conversation.
Okay this is a beautiful podcast
gentlemen thank you for coming
thank you everyone for watching
and Nick good luck in life
he's gonna need it
best of luck with your
upcoming Stalantis purchase
there on the island buddy
goodbye everyone
goodbye
you
About this episode
Ferrari’s rumored return to manual sparks a bigger debate about whether modern EVs can be “emotional,” not just fast—especially when “All the performance of EVs are the same” and differentiation comes down to making cars “beautiful.” The conversation also swings to trucks: the “return of the Ram Rumblebee” with a 777-hp Hellcat, plus electric Hummer concepts and why some EVs feel like “luxury appliances.” Later, they talk collector-car pricing, including Ferrari auction results and why special cars are increasingly treated like investments.
Have a question you want answered on the podcast next week? Ask HERE https://crsnbds.com/PODQUESTIONS
Welcome to THIS CAR POD! Doug DeMuro & Friends offers weekly expert insight and opinion on breaking automotive stories, the car market, and audience Q&A.
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Chapters:00:00:00 THIS CAR POD!
00:00:18 Ferrari
00:13:23 Toyota Corolla GRMN
00:17:25 Ram Rumble Bee Is Back!
00:21:58 The New Hummer
00:26:26 There Is No New Viper
00:31:28 Talk Cars
00:31:50 Nick's E55 vs Kennan's E39
00:36:59 Kennan Is Selling An E39 M5
00:39:06 Doug's Selling His G-Cab
00:49:35 Market Report
00:49:46 The Velocity Aucitons
00:58:14 The Hoovie Collection
01:00:23 Community Questions
01:00:38 What Is Doug's Facebook Marketplace Story?
01:05:06 Who Does Doug's Taxes?
01:06:28 At What Price Would You Buy A Used Luce?
01:08:28 With FL5 CTR Prices Drop?
01:10:07 Is The Velocity Sale The New 550 Value?
01:15:55 What Is The #1 Rich Guy Go Fast Car?
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