FIRING ORDER: Scotto, Vinny & Ron Rank the Top Drivers Cars Made Since 2000!

S2 E14 FO - Audio === Welcome to another episode of Ver Wait a minute. This is a whole new show. It's Firing Order, brought to you by Vyper Industrial, and I am your host, Brian Scotto. I've been talking about it.

You've heard me tease it, and it's finally here today for our premier show. We're gonna rank the top five drivers cars made since the year 2000. And to do that, we've got none other than my good friends, Vin Anatra and Ron Zaras here with us.

You may remember them from the genesis of Very Vehicular, as well as other things they've done. With this being the first episode, drop a comment. Let us know your top five and give us other topics you'd like to see ranked.

But first, a quick word from our partners. 'cause without them you'd be paying for this. All right. Let's get into it. Each week you hear me talk about how great Heat Wave sunglasses are, but today I wanna talk about their co-founder Justin Hertle and his fantastic taste in cars.

Here's a quick sampling top of the list. He has a sick third gen Ls, a powered sequentially shifted Pontiac GTA On the flip side. He's got a 1 98 Cosworth Evil one, if you know. You know, plus a proper vintage NASCAR in the iconic Tide delivery.

What else? A Rad Sea four Vet a race Miata. A GT three rss. Oh, and another nascar. I can't keep track. Speaking of, he tracks all of his cars, but the pinnacle of his collection at 92 Kenworth Custom hauler slash motorhome.

I've never been more envious. Ugh. Anyway, go check him out heat wave vigil.com and help support a fellow vehicular hoer. So what if all of his run? So I went to Fat Ice Race to help my friends at BBI capture some content.

Normally, I'm not the one on GoPro duty, but it was a one man show. And if you know anything about action camera mounts, you'll know that thumb tightening is no match for an 800 horsepower nine 11. Instead of carrying six different Allen keys and a screwdriver, I brought one Wera a bit driver, one tool, three bits all fits in my pocket.

Wera I actually started with screwdrivers in bits over 60 years ago. So they know what they're doing. Whether you need one that ratchets is tiny like this one, or has a bevy of bits stored in the handle.

Wera has got you dialed? Go find your favorite on weratools.com. Welcome back boys. Hey, what up? I'm happy that you guys kicked off very vehicular and now you're here for firing. Oh yeah, that's right.

First one again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here we are. Well, 'cause you know what? As I mentioned previously, like this is a show about combat. The three of us, the love language, really, really love arguing together.

So yes, I figured that just because you got, you kind of gave us a shot at Hoonigan Ron and I just have this like, infinite debt to do. We censor you, you know, we're like eight o'clock on a Saturday.

Alright. We're like, whatever. How many more of these things we have to do? Wait. Done. So you mean you didn't wanna come, you don't wanna be here. I wanted to be here. Of course I want to be here.

Uh, where else would you want be on a Saturday night? Honestly, in my garage. Yeah. I'm hoping about cars. I'm hoping that Ron and I are gonna get to teach you something today. I really do hope so. Yeah.

Yeah. You're gonna teach me something today? Yeah. Because Ron and I are gonna be very aligned. Yeah. And you think I won't be, it's probably, it's probably like word for word the same thing. Yeah.

All right. All right. Well, well let's get, but I, I, do I have a question about the premise of this? Yeah, for sure. This thing, and it could, it could skew our answers drastically. Mm-hmm. I'm assuming they all know what the hell we're talking about already, or you wanna set it up?

Well, we All right, so the actual topic or firing order. Both, both starting with firing order. So the whole idea of firing order is that it's a listicle, right? So like we're here, we each bring our own list and then we argue over the list, and then we end with the final list, which is like basically something that's like written in stone.

It is fucking gospel, right? Because the three of us said it. Yeah. So it clearly matters. Absolutely. Right? Yeah. Because we're not biased at all to one type of car. No, no. Um, this is absolutely not a subjective list by three idiots.

This is an objective list that it honestly is, and all resale values should obviously go off of this too. Yeah. 100%. 100%. So, um, so yeah, we will, you'll give your five. You'll give your five. I'll give my five.

We will then, well actually each one of those, we will take the, we will all argue over the best two of each people's five. That'll move to the next round. In the end. That leaves us with six. We're gonna make a ranking of five, which means ones gets knocked out.

And I will also kind of bring up maybe some blind spots that we didn't bring up as a group that are like cars that I know I can't, I, that's the real reason I showed up is 'cause like, what is Scotto gonna pick?

I know it's not gonna be what I have. No, and and, and this is where like my big question for this is gonna be, are we talking stock cars? Yes. We're talking stock cars because Okay. Or stock. Ish because I think you can Max Club sport.

Yeah. Or like ball, like minor bald ons. Yeah. Like if you wanna put some coilovers on. Okay. Some wheels. Because I was more worried that you were gonna be like, well the best driver for under a hundred thousand dollars is clearly a twin VR six mark, one rabbit that I put on top of a of retired chassis.

But you could do it in a weekend. No, at our age we can all agree that anything swapped with an engine is not a good driving experience. It'll, it might be fun. Yeah. But as a driving experience, no, you're rolling the dice.

The all time. It's, by the way, I do wanna say the audience. 'cause we have a group chat and we were discussing, which is called Ballas Boys. And we were discussing what the topic would be tonight.

And one of the topic choices I put was practical engine swaps to which you just luve to, I was like, absolutely not. You wouldn't even entertain the conversation. And then we're. And then Ron said the whole thing's just gonna be Mark two, VR six, or nah.

That's the whole conversation. Yeah, that's, yeah. Yeah. Practical and engine swap is just like an oxy wall. It just doesn't exist. Like I know they could be good, but it's like, it's not practical by means.

I think there's a good, I think this, I think a Mark two VR six is a practical engine swap. Yeah. I think a KKK series in the NSX has become a pretty practical engine swap these days at least. Alright, anyway.

Anyway, moving. Moving on next. Anyway. Alright, so today's topic is. The greatest or the top five driver's cars made since 2000, but some rules under a hundred thousand and no Porsches. And the reason I say no, Porsches, I didn't know the no Porsches rule.

Okay, that's fine. Okay. Sorry. And the reason I say no Porsches is 'cause me and him just did an entire episode just waxing. Although totally fair. Can I give, can I give a teaser about nine 11?

Totally fair. Can I give a teaser? I didn't know that rule and I didn't have a single Porsche on my list. Oh. Oh really? No. Amazing. Because you hate stock nine elevens. Uh, well my thing only GT three over here.

This guy, of course. No, but when you were said, 'cause that's why I asked stock. 'cause I'm like, you could build a fun like C two s but like out the factory. But you could get a 9 9 6 GT three for under a hundred.

Barely. Barely, but still. Yeah, you could find them. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Okay. No Porsche, no p No, but we're saying good rule. We're saying, I was say, when I say a hundred k, I mean from new was a hundred k.

Oh, does that change your list a little bit? No, that still doesn't matter. But like for example, you could buy a 360 for under a hundred k now, but that's not really like I, I meant like as Oh, so like when you were new.

Okay. Yeah. Still doesn't change my list at all. Yeah, it doesn't change mine either. Yeah. Good driver's cars. Like not, not like full blown sports cars. Attainable driving cars. Yeah.

Attainable. Good driver's cars. Yeah. Yeah. Whew. Do you have any other questions on the rules? No. Uh, mods. Like it can't be, if you have a car that is only good because of mods, then we're gonna fight you on it.

Yeah. Okay. Like I think it has to be pretty good. That's fair. Out the box. Like look, every car is a little bit better with better tires and coil overs. Sure. But it shouldn't require like a turbo kit.

And this is me saying, right. I support these rules. Easy. Good rule set. So, alright, we're gonna start with you Vin. Okay. So just give us a list. No order. Okay. Okay. My first one, any generation.

Zero six. Okay. I feel like you have to pick agenda though. C 6, 0 6. C six. Okay. But I think, well, because when I thought it was like price now, I was like, you get any generation of Z six for under a hundred grand, which, um, so yeah, I go C six, honestly, it doesn't matter.

Any of 'em. Um, second car S 2000. Mm-hmm. Okay. Uh, third car. This is gonna be a shocker. Uh, B-R-Z-F-R-S GT 86 gen two only? Yes. Got it. Not the first gen, gen, like the current one. That one parked out front right now.

Yeah. Um, third car CT nine. A EVO eight or nine? Mm-hmm. Okay. Pick one. They're the same shit. Nine. It's a nine. Go nine. But they're like, they're, they're close enough. Um, was that four? Yeah. How did I lose the one I gotta and then E 92.

M three? Yeah. That I figured you'd go E 90, E 92 over E 46. A hundred percent. Okay. Yeah. All right. We are, we are unbelievably close. I, I see yours. We get, I figured it would be mostly the same as Rod bl.

We'll, but I have a couple. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get, we'll, we'll get to yours. We'll get to yours. Okay. So now we gotta pick the two from yours, that move on? Mm mm So I, do we wanna start with what we think the best ones are?

Or do we want to think? I think it's always easiest to clip. I think they're all really good. Yeah. I think they're all really good. Yeah. Um, I don't think there's really any surprises on your list.

Not really any surprises. No. Yeah. Vinny shows up with the expected. Sure. Yeah. But, but it's for a reason. But it, it's for good. It's for, it's for a good reason. Should I give my top two?

Yeah. What's your top two? All right. So I think if I had to pick my top two from that list, it would be Evo S 2000 for like out the box fund. Huh. And like the M three and the zero stakes incredible.

But I feel like they need. Some stuff. Okay. They need a little bit. Okay. They need like, like the M three needs an exhaust, it needs a tune. It needs like little things to like spice it up, but like out the box EVO and the, that's 2000.

Or just kind of say completely agree on evo. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say, I also agree on evo. Like I, I think the EVO is, I've said it so many times. Yeah. Like it is one of the best cars.

Yeah. Like right out the box. Super fun. Yep. It is more raw than I think most cars out the box are, which makes it great. And it punched way above its way to the top. Yeah. And I said it before, I think Evo has the best steering feel for under a hundred thousand dollars.

Bar none. Yep. No car under a hundred K and out steer. I would agree. Which is the same reason why you can't make a U-turn in it. Of course. Because the steering radis is so ridiculous. Or you need to like 360 point turn into a regular parking spot.

Yeah. It's great on track. Miserable for like six. Oh for sure. Oh, we're not talking about daily No trash Daily drive. When I daily drove my EV on E 85 to Hogan, I would have to fill up every other day.

' cause it has like a 1.2 gallon gas tank. Yeah. It's also just the shittiest car. It's also like when they were like inspired by the dash, they were like, look at like a 1986 Toyota tl. We just wanna recreate.

Oh. And by the nine, the interior was the two thousands. Sick. Can I, can I uh, little tangential story. I had an EVO nine with a FP black Fer, two 70 twos Cher Exhaust. I thought it was a fucking dude, right?

Yeah. This was like, this was back in like, I don't know, 20. I have Cher have 20, 20 14 or something. Right? I remember I was dating this girl and I'm like driving it and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna, I sold the Evo and she was like.

Oh, like for how much? I was like 25 and she was like a hundred dollars. Because you gotta realize for like someone who doesn't know about cars, you're like, this is the crappiest car I've ever been in.

Wow. Like, dude, you know, you realize part of what makes that car so good is that the door panels are like as thin as aluminum foil. Oh yeah. So like you get all the road noise. Like not only is it no NBH whatsoever.

First off it's a Mitsubishi, which like has no respect. Right. Then it's like, it feels like a pilot. Think about the kids today. Mit, they're like, Mitsubishi, don't they make HVAC systems? Right?

No, totally. Hundred percent. I think my air conditioner is, is a Mitsubishi. So yeah, crack. But then you drive into a corner and it's like, whoa. Yeah. You really, you cannot match that. Yeah.

You have to be a driver to understand why that car is so cool. Yeah. So fun little story that I can now tell. Um, Ken came to New York City. And was like, we were like, Hey. He's like, oh, let's, you know, go drive around.

And I had an EVO on loan from the press fleet, and at the time Ken was a Subaru driver, so he was like, uh, I was like, you should drive this thing. He's like, is it much different than the STI? I was like, yeah, kind of is.

Oh yeah. Pretty damn good. And he is like, all right. And we got in it and just tore up Manhattan. Like, this was like before Ken realized like, we can't kind of do that stuff. And like just driving through Manhattan with like a rally car driver.

I'd only known Ken for like a year or two at this point. Yeah. And when he got out of it, he was like, why is the STI not like this? So I was like, I was like, I know. It's it's amazing outta the box.

Yeah. Like it was just, that car was just so, so good. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I don't savage. I don't know why I've never owned an Evo. I talk about them all the time too. It's crazy because you're too busy buying Audis.

Yeah, yeah. You, you're, you're, you're the other all-wheel drive guy kind of. You remember what I said when I was like, when like we were looking at my Audi and it's like right before it like headed to SEMA and you were like, fuck man, you built a beast and I turned to you and I said, yeah.

And it probably still doesn't drive as good as an evil nine. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I do remember that now. And that's hilarious. Yeah. Stock Evo nine. So. Alright, so back to the list. So, okay, so Evo nine, I think.

Agreed. I think we all hard agree. Agreed. Actually that definitely deserves to be on the list for me. S 2000 was the first one on the chopping block. Wow. Yeah, because right out of the box it's like.

It's kind of anemic. It needs an exhaust too. Mm. It needs coil overs. It needs tires. It needs, it needs more, I feel, to really be alive once you get there. Like, yeah, like FBO and S 2000 is sick. Yeah, I, I guess I kind of agree that like S 2000 and E 92 M three land in like the same space, right?

Like outta the box you kinda want more. Yeah. And they need like the exact same mods to be awesome. For sure. So, and the difference to me is that an E 92 M three is like where else ever in history can you get a V eight that revs that high, like an exotic revving V eight, an Audi RX four, but whatever.

Keep going. Where else can you No, no. Already out. Wait, what? Already out. It's, it's cool, but if you like understand it, Jeremy Clarkson. Jeremy Clarkson said that is one of the greatest engines to ever be made engine.

Yeah. But when you put it, put 20 feet in front of them in front axle, they move it four feet backwards in a five, it's, and you just keep going straight. That's not a good driver's car. Yeah, it's true.

It's not bad in the R eight. It's great on a highway. It's not bad in the R eight, all the R eight is also better with the V 10, but whatever, whatever. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I would personally replace S 2K with E 92 M three.

By the way, just real quickly, talking about like practical engine swaps, that V eight in a lotus, like a spree mm-hmm. Is actually a pretty good swap. Anyway, moving on the v the Audi. So what, what do you, what do you think for two?

Um, so I don't like the S 2000, but only because I don't fit in it. Yeah. I actually famously flew to the press launch of the S 2000. Got in it. And couldn't drive it. Like the top, like I couldn't even get it.

Yeah, you're looking at like the bar. Yeah. I couldn't even see over the bar. It was like right in that mid space. So like, I took like two laps in it. I, so I, I can't speak on it from driving it, but I don't know, like I'm also just not a Honda guy, so it's like, yeah.

And, and then I think that's also the other one for me is like, it always feels like it's, I don't know, just it's this weird car that's like just lives in this other space. You don't wanna know why, because it's a convertible.

Yeah, probably if it was like a cooler. Cool. It's really small. And the, and the hard tops today worth are worth more than the cars themselves. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. But like brand like Kado had, Kado had like a really good list.

I love that. 2000 i, 2000 for me too. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it's just 'cause it's a convertible. I feel like you like look at it. It's like you gotta be like a uh, like a, yeah. What what do they call those?

A Roadster. Roadster. Oh yeah. You gotta be like a Roadster guy. He's technically a Roadster. You gotta be a Roadster guy. You gotta be a Roadster guy. What is a road Roadster guy? Like you got like a scarf and driving gloves or some bullshit.

I don't know. Oh dude. Yeah. A hundred percent. Hundred percent. I dunno. I just, just like, I can't imagine any of us driving. Ascar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway. All right. Um, so your two that move on, what's the other two?

No. No. So we got C6 0 0 6. That's like a strong contender. What else? Uh, gen E 92. M three E 90 M three. Gen two B RZ eight six. Ooh. And uh, yeah, that was it. That the last one. That fine? Yeah, that was one.

Well, we know the evos moving on, the EVO moves on for me, I would say it's between C six Z six and the gen two B-R-Z-G-T-A six and it, which is like such a difficult decision between those two. 'cause like the C 6 0 6 is a fantastic car and, but the BRZ is probably like one of the last current analog cars that exist today.

Well that's that's an interesting question because, because like if you had to buy, if you were to compare the C eight today Yeah. Versus the BRZ. Yeah. I would. I would. The B Z's a like a more of a driver's car.

Oh absolutely. We both have spent tons of time in lots of tracks. Time in both. I'm gonna disagree. What? I drove the C eight Z six, not the 1 0 6. Yeah. It's fucking incredible. But here's a question.

It's, and I, I feel like this will be kind of that thing. So like they're very similar, but that's over similar brand. They're similar in the way Oh, new. Yeah. Z six. They're similar in the way they behave.

Right. But like the, the performance limits of the Z six are crazy. Yeah. Like you're illegal almost immediately. Yeah. Where one of the big reasons why the BZ is so fun is like you could still be kind of legal in throwing that thing around and be cyber like zero six C six first gear is 60 miles an hour.

That's crazy. Yeah. Like, so you're very, very like danger limits. Yeah. Immediately. And maybe that's good. I don't know. But like the BRZ to me, I think would be the pick there because it's just fun at any speed.

Interesting. But I gotta say, if you got like the, the BRZ is like our, or GT 86, whatever is like a, you know, you gotta mention it, but if we're talking top two, it's not in the top two. Because you drive an E 92 M three bone stock and then you drive a eight six FRS, like yeah, you're not picking that car.

You're right. I don't care who you are, you're not picking it. That's a good point. If you took, if you took every single car you mentioned and brought them, I don't think you wanna say track 'cause track's a different experience.

It's not a driver's car. Yeah, like a driver's car is like whatever. Windy roads Canyon. Yeah. That's more of a driver's car, like a track car. Something different. I would say if you took all those cars, brought them to the track, the two cars you'd have the most fun in, if you're competent is probably the Evo.

And actually I, this, I don't actually, I think the Evo would be the worst on, not the worst, but it wouldn't be the fastest track. It depends on the track. All wheel drive tough. No, but I don't think track.

I think that's the point. Like I like a canyon road. I think I'm like a canyon road. Oh, a canyon road. Forget it is fucking great. Yeah, it's forgiving. I still, that's no question. Evo or E 92?

M three, I guess. Yeah. My pick is E 92, M three. And that's in, in that scenario. Because the Corvette's cool. But the gearing is crazy. Yeah. So for canyons you might be a little like, whatever.

Yeah. You're really just hanging out in second gear the whole time. And then the SS 2008 six. Yeah. Gray cars, but they're just really power limited. So I just think that you're gonna like Yeah. Compared to the other cars, they're a little sleepy.

Yeah. In terms of like, uh, excitement when you're getting on the pedal, when the E 92 M three came out, uh, you had the ISF in the market. You had the R, you had the B seven, RSS four, and you had 63 C, 60 3:00 AM G.

And I got, I drove all four of them at the same time, back to back sick. And as much as I hated to admit, the United two was the best car. Yeah. Cool. ' cause like I, I love, I love the violence of the C 63, but the trans, it's not one, it's only auto.

Yeah. Two, it just doesn't handle the same way. Yeah. The. The ISF sounded cool, but was like super numb. Like I don't understand Well car at all. Well, the ISF also, correct me if I'm wrong, torque converter auto wasn't like a decent Correct.

Yeah, it wasn't like a decent, so like, 'cause those cars, it's always the Mercedes. Mercedes know the Mercedes is trash because of that. Yeah. Our friend had one drove it. That's right. And I was like, I always wanted a C 63.

They sound amazing. They look great, but they're great stoplight to stoplight though. Oh, for sure. They just tear the tires off highway road trip car all day, honestly, on a daily driver.

Great. Yeah, if you live in la SoCal Perfect car, sit at a million stoplights. Yeah. Great. Yep. But like, yeah, the transmission just sucks. All right. So, uh, I mean we're, we're, we're getting pretty close on the yellow lights, so Yeah.

So are you thinking, so are we happy with Evo, Evo M three, EVO nine, and, uh, E 92, M three? Yeah, I, I just feel like I, I just a verse C 6 0 6. The C 6 0 6 is such a Fanta, it's an incredible car.

Ls seven high revving Ls. Like just, other than that, the trunk area will melt your luggage. It is a fantastic, it's an insanely good car. Yeah. It's an insanely good car. Like really good cockpit.

So much so that I, I always said that until I drove, I drove pretty much every generation of Corvette now a bunch. Yeah. And I did all those like worth it shows on a bunch of generations and I'm like, Corvette is not a sports car and it's not a super car.

It's a Corvette. Yeah. 'cause nothing competes it's its own thing. Compete with any Corvette easily. You're like, it makes no sense. Yeah. Because you're like, that car is the same price as an M three.

But it's faster than an M three by like, like couldn't even, every little kid, every little thing you do puts it that much of a level higher than anything else. Do you remember we did, um, the, uh, that, I don't even remember the name of that.

Ho ho, what was it called? Hodgepodge. Hodgepodge, yeah. Yeah. A story for zero 16 and we had zero six there GT one edition and we had a nine 11, what's it? A, uh, C four. C four whatever.

C four R. And it's like, I can't even begin to explain to you how much better the C six. Oh, it's insane. Easily. It was just like so much better. Yeah, so much. We had everything of that time and like everybody fought for the zero six and that was like, that was the one that had balsa wood in it because I remember everyone that's make fun of like, it has wood in it.

It's like, yeah, it doesn't fucking matter if it has wood in it, it's fantastic. Yeah. So. I, I, I'll give you the E 92 M three 'cause I feel like you need to have an M three in your package only because I think there might be a C six on someone else's list coming up.

So, okay. We can move forward with that onto Ron. All right, my list goes, now I gotta look at my notes. All right. Um, obviously top of the list, EVO six. Okay. Oh, I was gonna say, we need to limit this to American cars.

'cause otherwise the list gets too crazy. Mm. I should have given you that note, but it's a little late. Maybe we'll let it late. I mean, they are available in American now, but Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's like, yeah, like Gray Market makes a little bit different.

That's why I was, it's annoying as it was to be like all generations. That's why I was kind of like, 'cause I was gonna just be like Evos in general. Yeah. Because like they're all kind of the same and awesome.

A six is a way different experience. Yeah. Um, and it is the best Evo experience by far. Do you think so driving wise? Yeah. I had a, I had a five and I loved it. Five and five, six are very close.

Do you like the five more? I've never driven other anything other than the eight and nine and the 10. Well, uh, the dynamics of driving like a five or six, a CP nine A is like, feels like. Eight or nine, but lighter.

Yeah. So like eight rules, way lighter. Like it's just way more intuitive. It feels way less safe, like the rear end comes around way easier. I love cars that feel safe. It's really good. Yeah.

Yeah. Like it's not made for like people that make mistakes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an EVO nine. That's. 500 pounds lighter. Yeah. It's fucking insane. Yeah. A hundred percent turn's crazy. Yeah. The feeling's wild.

Like it's really, really connected. Like even every journalist will tell you that's driven 'em all. Like six is the way to go. Yeah. Five or six. Yeah. All right. What else you got? All right. Uh, wait.

When did the, when did Evo. Six come out 99, 2 or 98. Oh, okay. So it's like 98 or 99 and went to what? 2001? One. Okay, so just on the cusp? Yeah. All right. What else you got on the cusp?

Uh, 9, 9 6. GT three. That's out. E 92 M three C 6 0 6. Lotus xxi. Ooh, I didn't even think about the Xxi. Lotus xxi. Yeah, it was, uh, I, I drove on very early on and like the fact that it has like metal floor plate, like, it just, it feels like a prototype race car.

Yeah. From the factory. That's a car that needs No. Are you done, are you done with your list? Is that everything? Yeah. No, S 2000 was on there too. Oh, okay. Okay. Alright. So I'm gonna say right now, like Xxi was on my list.

Sure. I would put Xxi forward. I think XXI is one of the best driver's cars ever. Never. It sucks for doing anything other than driving. Of course. Like it sucks more than the Evo does. Yes. Yeah. It's impossible to get in.

Oh, it makes the Evo feel like a regular as daily family card. It's I to get in and out of Yeah. Like it just, it's really noisy. Um, but it's fucking amazing. Yeah. And I've never driven one, but they seem so fun.

Unassisted. Yeah. Steering. So it's like manual rack. Yeah. It's got like, I, my, the only downside to it is probably the engine. It's got a turbo 1.8, I mean, sorry, supercharge 1.8 Toyota engine. That just sounds like a little rough.

It sound wise. The, it doesn't match, the sound doesn't match, but it revs to eight grand. There was a version that RevB to nine grand. That's it. Like the later one European stuff, it like 350 some horsepower.

Three 40. There's a dude, uh, he goes to like the car meets around here. Uh, he's got a white one. Oh, with like AP brakes and like SE 37 K, AP brakes actually came stock on like, oh, sick, I think on the S two 60, but his license plate is like, I don't remember the exact number, but it's like 1936 LBS.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So sick because I mean brand new, they were nothing done. They were 2000. Yeah, just over 2000. It was like 2 70, 20, 75, 2000 pound car is insane. And then you add 340 some horsepower with old, but even just the base S one was like 2 50, 2 40.

Yeah. You're talking like more, you're talking that perfect weight ratio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it's the classic, like Colin Chapman, it's like add lightness and the better versions also got lighter.

Of course as they went on, they were like, they just made 'em lighter and lighter and then you had the supercharger that kind of takes care of the like wonky engine noise for you, you the super was okay.

It just, you know what it was for me and I made me feel different in it today, but it almost. Like looks and feels like a supercar. Sure. But it doesn't sound like one. Right? Like if it had more of like, but like, but I don't think that really takes away from it.

It's just that from a driving experience. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're in it and the cockpit and everything about it. You are expecting to hear like that high pitch. Yeah. Like high. Yeah. Low. Yeah. But it doesn't really work out the same way.

But it's still great. It's buzzy. It's buzzy part it fuzzy, but it's still, it's still really, really good. You know, it's funny. A phenomenal car. I, I mean I love those. Um, but I don't think I ever consider them because I don't know if I really want to drive one on the road.

Like I feel like I'd want an an Xi as a track car track only. Yeah. Yeah. What about, I mean, canyon car I'm sure be amazing. It's a great canyon. Getting to the canyon will be horrendous. Yeah.

Well that is just so small. Yeah. Like it's, yeah, they're very small. But I do fit in 'em, but I have to take my shoes off. But I just also, like the pedal box is so tight. I also like, it's one of the only cars I can really think of where like the metal interior is crazy.

Mm-hmm. Like the whole center console is just like, like dimple dyed like crazy stuff. Like, you feel like you're in a spaceship and that's like, oh gosh. And a lot of hundred percent support that.

And a lot of people consider it like the last true Lotus. Mm. Like that was like the last one. That was like true to the original, to the spirit of Lotus as a brand. I mean, I think we all driven the Mira and the Aurora and stuff, and like, they're still good.

They're cool. They are still one of the more raw cars, but then they just, they get more, they get numbed down. Yeah. Right. Like, I gotta drive an exe. Oh, you gotta do it. I You should. Yeah.

You would love it. Like that's like a good one for you to get. I should, yeah. Yeah. I should buy good things. I, trust me, I occasionally look at them and be like, this is a really bad purchase.

'cause like, I can't even put my kid in it. And they're still like a great, like dollar for dollar. Like what? You get a pretty good, I I think they're like what, 60 for 50 Sixty's. Pretty cool.

And something else too, like, I think. I think one of the things that makes a really good driver's car is a small footprint. 'cause I think when the car gets too big, you don't get to use the road as much.

Especially for like, again, off track. Like being in a small car on a canyon road, like you can use more of the road in a small car, the smaller footprint, the lighter weight. Like, it just, it just makes it a better drive.

I think that's part of why I rank the M three, above the zero six because the Z six is, is a, is a big car. Shockingly light. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually like, it's lighter than the multiple pounds.

Lighter than M three. But it's, it feels like a, it's big. It feels like a big car. Long. It feels wide, hood's really long when you're behind the wheel. And even if it's not like, I don't know the stats, like wheel base and width and stuff.

Mm-hmm. But if it's not, it feels bigger when you're in it. Sure. So you might not use the road as much 'cause it feels just like Yeah. A huge GT car. All right. So I think we all agree that siege moves forward.

I think, I think the siege has to move forward. Got yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, if we're not counting the EVO six, which I think is bullshit, uh, then C six EO six is my second pick. I mean, what else did you have on the list?

S 2000, everything else that been, it was, uh, S 2000, E 92, M 3 9, 9 6, G two three, uh, I had honorable mention, uh, dollar for dollar. Like, yeah. Not maybe even brand new. Trust me, all of mine have caveats.

So it's three 30 IZHP. Yeah, those are good too. I think. I think for the dollar, what you spent was so close to an M three. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Those were good, but it was so attainable. Yeah. And now especially like used pricing, like, dude, you can get one for like 13.

13 grand something. Yeah, they're great. Great price. Crazy car for the price. Yeah, but I, I think the moving forward with XI and C six, 'cause the C six is just like a fucking, like you said, it's just, it's a beast.

An incredible beast. Yeah. You can't, you can't not have it move forward. Like it's, it's too good at everything. Yeah, it really is too. And like even driving 'em and stuff, you're like, wow, this is like shockingly practical.

Yeah. Easy to get in and out of like you can actually fit a lot in the trunk. It'll melt, but you could fit a lot back there. Yeah. I drove one when it first came out. I took one on bull run. It was so much fun.

Yeah. And you like, you could literally cruise for hours at a hundred miles plus pretty comfortable. Yeah. Like, yeah. It's a river honorable mention on my list. But didn't it actually make it No, go for it.

Yeah. You can throw out biker GTS. Oh, is that under, was that under hundred hand? It might have been like right on the cost. I think it was under, I think it was, uh, seventies or eighties. What new?

Yeah. You know, it's, that's crazy. It's interesting you mentioned that 'cause I, but I guess it's a competitor as zero six, so it probably is. Mm-hmm. If you were kind of, yeah. Yeah, I guess it was.

But the reason why it didn't make it is because that motor, as cool as it is and as much power as they can make every time I've driven one whoop, you think like, you want so much more revs. I was gonna say, has anyone here driven a Vyper?

I have. You guys have? Okay. I've never driven one, so I can't come. It's a cool experience. Just like barely, like I, I did like a highway pull in one. It's. Cool. But also like, it feels like you're driving a Dodge Durango, but 500 horsepower.

Can I tell you my least favorite part of the Vyper? Yeah. I know people say it's a truck motor. It's technically not. Although it definitely kind of revs like one. Yeah. Is that It has six lugs. Oh, it's so gross.

I know. It's so gross. Gross know. First off, you're never gonna find cool wheels for it. No. No. You're just like, that's just out. It's either stock, which you're, you're buying the, uh, I think it is the GTS wheel, which is like a BBS type wheel.

Yeah. Or just like every dude has custom made hre that are just like ghost flamed or like candy red and like black, you know, whatever. It definitely a car that most owners have no style. Oh, for sure.

For sure. It's actually worse than the Corvette owner. Oh. Way, way, way worse. Way worse. Yeah. Oh. 'cause they were like, have you seen the jackets they wear? Dude, the snake? Yeah. It's serious.

It's terrible. Yeah. And like, I don't even, like, are they? They're not New balance. What are they? You know why? You know, why is that like full leather loafer? I'm not even sure there's, there's a reason that's like Kirkland.

There's a reason why all those cars are gross with the rounded sole because you can't, you can't have fitment on a Vyper. It's just impossible. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like even if it's slammed because of way it works, six inches.

Low gap. Yeah. Yeah. But I will say what made the Vyper really cool during that period was that they just kept crushing the nerve burger. Oh really like that? Yeah, because they That was, that was the next gen.

Yeah, the second gen. Yeah, the second gen. A CR. Yeah. Direct. Oh my god. I remember driving that on the highway out here. I didn't live out here yet. Wait, were you saying first gen? Yeah, I think first gen is nineties.

No, second gen. Second gen. Second gen. Second gen was 2001. So you're saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Second gen GTS 2001. Right, right, right. Peak. Peak Vyper. Yeah. Peak Vyper. I like the body styling on the one that came after it.

The gen three is sick. Yeah. Gen three. Yeah. Yeah. I hate the gen three. Gen three is the one that burns your, that burns your legs. You get the, I hate the gen. You literally the get out. Are we talking about the same one?

The one where like it's like really long and the doofy headlights. That's the last one. They really big. No, 'cause the one, remember the one I raced in my S 14? That's a gen three. A C3. No, that's gen four.

I don't even know. I know anymore. Okay. Talk about car. I, there's, there's very first one. This, by the way, is clearly quiet side car. 'cause we don't even know how many chairs there are.

The bike, there's, there's the ugly one. You know, is the first one. Know which one I'm talking about? The first one? No, the first one's. Okay. Side sidebar on that. Uh, hold on. I got sidebar. Andrea from Pennzoil.

Yeah. He just bought a gen one. Like a 90, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A 95. RT 10. Yeah. The RT 10 is horrible. And he's like, he's like, this isn't even a car. This is so bad that it's like, not even a car.

Okay. Quick, quick little, uh, quick little like bait and switch. As a kid, when the Vyper came out, we saw it at the, you know, New York International Auto Show went with my dad. It's like, you know, mid nineties, early nineties, like 93 I think.

Right. Was the, was the, that's a gen three. I hate those. Yes. That's a Gen three four. Okay. So gen two. Cool. You raised a Gen four. Gen four. Cool. Gen three. I still don't peak. I still don't like that one.

Gen two, gen three is gross. Yeah. But when gen two is the one that, that was, uh, the cover of the first issue of Zero six Magazine, that car came out. Matt loved those things. Shut out Mantilla.

Yeah, but. So when the first Vyper came out, I think it was 93, 92, something like that. Yeah. We went to go see at the auto show and because it was a Dodge, like, I don't think my dad thought it was gonna be that expensive.

Mm. So my dad started talking about how like we were gonna get a a, a Vyper sick. Now, first of off, I want you to like realize, like I grew up in Queens. My parents didn't have a lot of money. Like I had a huffy bike when like all my friends had like mongooses and like finally like we were gonna get something sick.

Yeah. No more Chevy citation. Like the family's getting a Vyper. And we went to the dealership and my dad saw how much they cost and we came home in a Chrysler battery convert. Literally. Wow. Was there a pencil?

Was there a pencil in there with the teeth marks? Which by the way, which by the way had, was a manual transmission. Years later, my mom still had it and I like my golf was broken. My mom was like, they were about to get rid of the car and they're like, you can drive it until like it goes to the junkyard.

And I went to the dealership to get a bushing for the manual transmission and the guy's dealership was like, we never sold that car in a manual. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know how you have a manual transmission lamp baron.

I'm like, no, no. Come outside. We, I have a manual church from Le Baron. And he came outside and he was like, alright, you guys are the one idiots that optioned that. He's like, don't make, I was gonna say I didn't even know that was possible.

That's bring a trailer Gold, right? Probably. I mean that would probably win. It would probably win. Rad. Probably did. Oh, win Rad. You would probably win Rad Wood right now. It was kind of cool like, but it definitely wasn't a Vyper.

Yeah. It was one of the biggest automotive letdowns in my life. And then I also like, just realized, understood. Like at that point where my place was, I was like, my place is in a front wheel drive. I hate that feeling.

I hate that. I, I hope my mom doesn't hear this 'cause she loved that car, but yeah. But, but it's no Vyper. Yeah. So anyway, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll come back and uh, I'll give you guys my list, which I know.

I'm so excited you're waiting for. I'm so excited. It's the snack intermission brought to you by Vyper Industrial. Okay, so this is what we're taking out the snack cart today, which is courtesy of Nick, the producer.

Damn. He's British. So it's like British snacks. This is, I just want to like first mention this, 'cause like Ron and I spent a lot of time like eating at Mark Spencer's and shit and Riley snacks.

Yep. Ginger nuts. Horrible. Horrible. What is it about the British where everything has to have, well, it's right next to the spotted dick. Right next to the spotted dick. Like everything has to have like some sort of some connotation, some sexual connotation.

Like, oh, you know what? These smell like ginger snaps. I think this is just a different name for a ginger snap. Oh, the texture is horrible. I've never met something crunchier. There's not much give in this.

There's no spicy or fiery inness. Oh, all right. Because the British guy can't say anything right now, and I see him like exploding. It's because you dip 'em in tea. They're, they're tea dippers, right?

Honestly, these are a lot better than I expected. They do get fiery when you eat them more like it leaves a fiery. Tongue taste. They definitely have more flavor than I thought they would. I also love how much Ron hates it.

He's like so upset. I hate this. You guys. You have cookie all over you. I hate this. This is the nature Val Nature Valley bar of cookies. Just It is. It's unbelievably dry. Yeah. You wanna give that a score?

No real. Yeah. Zero. That's a hard zero for me. Anyway. Thanks, Vyper. Industrial. We need that snack break. What are you snacking on? What is this? A cock ring? I almost, this April 3rd is four. Three day.

That's right. The official and actually national Ken Block day. And we are gonna be celebrating the man with a four hour and 30 minute live stream with a ton of people attending. It'll be on blockhouse racing on YouTube.

Check it out. We'll be raising money for the foundation. It's gonna be a great time. Set a reminder. Mark your calendars. Do whatever you need to remember it. We'll see you there. Just the name. Just the name.

We'll bleep that. So anyway, we're back. We're back. Alright. Um, I am so excited. See what Brian thinks is a good driver's car. He already tried to sell us on RS four. Okay. I'm just waiting for like.

Mexico Market B one 50. You realize the best part about this is the way the show is set up. You, we got four in there. At least one of my cars is gonna have to make it to the top five list. Get I have to hear this at least one of just I have the quantum's on here.

I'm walking. Yeah, I'm out too. If the green wagon thing is on here, we're walking out. You finish a show on your own. First one. First one. It's a throwaway exe. S two. Okay. We've already, we've already moved forward.

I, I, that is a top one for me. The next one, um, maybe actually a bit surprising 'cause you guys know this isn't my brand, but BMWM coupe 2000. Yeah. So like the, the E eight six is, is one of the greatest, let it be known, is one of the greatest cars I've ever driven.

Scotto is chosen to be bmw. And if you don't know much about that, 'cause it only was here for two years. Yeah. Hey, what. The M coupe. Mm-hmm. Was only here for two years. The the E eight six, which was the 2000, was it almost two to 2008?

Was the clown shoe like the classic clown shoe? Not the clown shoe? No, no. The latter. The later one. Oh, Z four MZ four. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh shit. Z four M. Oh, that's your choice.

So yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah. So not the OG clown shoe? No, no, no. Z four M. Here's why. It's basically a lighter weight E 46, M three. You know what's funny is I was, it comes with, it comes stock with like CSL brakes.

It weighs like, it weighs a couple hundred pounds lighter than that and it is way more raw. Like the steering's way is way better input. I actually agree. The first car I've ever done, like a high speed under the radar, a high speed control drifting.

Well, ' cause I was gonna say it's such a 50 50 balance, like it is phenomenal and I keep like reminding myself like I need to own one one day. Yeah. Yeah. Because the OG clown shoe is cooler by like an infinite amount.

It is. It looks wise. I don't think it's a great looker, and I think that's one of the reasons I haven't bought it. Yeah. But first off. It has like this really, really thick steering wheel. Mm. And like I do, I just enjoy a thick Yeah.

Yeah. I just enjoy a thick boy when it comes to, and so does every Armenian in Astoria. It's something about that to b bmw. I just love that it has like, it has a true like cockpit feel. It's great. It's got S 54.

Has the S 54 in it. Yeah. Like which is what? 330 horse, which is like plenty. Um, and I don't know what it is between that and the E 46, but it just is like, it's way more raw. So what, like it's, it, was it lighter?

It's lighter by like a couple hundred pounds I think. Oh. Think. And it also has, um, but like. It makes more noise, if that make sense. Year. What year this made? Yeah. 2006 to 2008. Okay. So it's a little bit after the E nine, E 46.

It's like at the end of the six winner. Because I always thought it was weird that it was like newer than an E 46 M three, but still had an E 46 3. No, the E 46 ended production, I think in 2006. Yeah.

So they literally took the drive train of the outgoing E 46. Yeah. And they stuffed it into a lighter weight because that's Bengal. That's Bengal shit. Yeah. Which like I've actually grown to like Bengal stuff later on.

Me too. Oh, for sure. But I know when it first came out, people didn't like it, but base cars. But the M Bengal cars are bangers. I also think the seven series is a banger. Like the rear, like the way the rear truck was.

That was pretty good was the Bangal. The Bangal seven series is pretty cool. It really stood out. But that's because you worked in hiphop. But yeah, that's probably true. And that shit on 22.

Yeah. Uh, og OG Clown Shoe Cooler looking, but actually not a good car though. Car because it's 30 rear suspension. It's not that good. Yeah. Yeah. And that's also, I was like, eh, that's also, I mean, I guess it they sold through, but that's really a nineties car.

'cause that car came out in 98. Yeah. Yeah. But the, that car for me is like the one BMW or newer BMW that, that I don't Yeah. Good one. I like it. We weren't supposed to get into it that far. I was supposed to go.

Right. That was a really good edition. So I hit you with the next one, Volkswagen, R 32. I'll get to it. Let me go through the rest of the list. Lemme go through the rest of the list. I'm not gonna let, lemme go through rest the.

Mazda, RXE. Uh, let's get, we'll get to it. We'll get to it. And then the last one, Ilya's ears are burning, right? Yeah. Hold on. And, and like, there's so much wrong with that. Oh, sorry. So good.

There's so much wrong with that. Okay. Aesthetically, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is almost, almost everything. It is, it is. Like, there's so much wrong with it. I like where you're going with this.

Keep going. Yeah. Yeah. And then the last one, which has already been said, but the second gen BRZ, uh, GT 86, whatever you wanna call it. I, I just think that that is, I wanna give that car its flowers because if you look at everything we've listed.

It's almost all cars made from 2000 Yeah. To about 2011. Yeah. That's the only car, that only car that's actually that spirit. It's only dealership right now that we're talking about has the spirit of the old school as a spirit.

I have one parked outside right now. They're so good, man. Yeah. I, everything about that. Well, so, oh, okay. So, so, okay. Let, let, let's go R 32 real quick. Dude. First of all, I gotta applaud you on your list.

That's really good. Yeah. You knew ahead of time what we were gonna pick, and you're like, I, I gotta be different. I lived my whole life to be different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a little bit of it, but like, this is also an era where I was a journalist, so I got to drive a bunch of things and there were these weird standouts.

Sure. That you're like, why? To me, the MCO is weird, that like, it didn't become more cool. Here's a really, you can pick one up for like 30 grand. Yeah. Here's a really important question because I didn't drive an xi, but I, I imagine that it's great.

Yeah. Have you ever driven a mark four R 32? I have. No, I have not. No, I know. I've driven every car on my face. Yeah. The Mark four R 32. Isn't great, but it's fantastic. Yes. No, it's so fun to drive the, the problem with the Mark R, the problem with the R 32, the Mark four, R 32 is it came out the same time as the EVO and the STI.

Ah, yeah. So any of the, it just got totally over any of the comparisons. It is nose heavy, it pushes, and it didn't make as much power, so it wasn't fast in the straight line, the six. The, the R 32 VR six sounds even better fast.

I will say, remember the way those sounds it, but is the slowest, most garbage engine that, whoa, whoa, whoa. That makes, whoa, whoa. Let's be real. Let's be real. Let no what, what engine is fun. That, that after 4,000 pm full.

On Scott right now. You just want full mark. The mark. Four R 32. He's turning red. Okay, hang on. Hear me out. Hear me out. The mark four R 32 has a fun power ban from 2,600 RRP M to 3,800. No, no, no, no, no, no.

And beyond that, the think feels like an old man if run. Hey, R Torque comes in at 2,700. It, it's actually the opposite. We are like the Evo and the STI. You have to drive at the limit. This thing got like a power band for a long time.

It's just a little consistently. Power band sti. I had a fat power band actually, right? Yes, I was, that was my only gripe. The R 32 just doesn't have like sole up top. I, well, I want, I do not respect this fucking VR six, eight.

I don't know what, like what? Why are you such a self-loathing Volkswagen boy? Like why you have a vr? 'cause I've driven cool cars. He has, I've driven a VR six right now. Drive. Drive A V 18 C.

Why do you own a mark two VR Nostalgia. But it is cool. Yeah, it sounds cool. Although I was on the phone with someone, I'm not gonna name names, and I fucking gave that thing to beans while I was on the phone and they were like, yo, are you driving a straight pipe, three 50 Z?

And I straight up hung up on them. I was like, what are you saying? I was like, I am in a 12 valve, six cylinder. The heart staggered six. Do I know this person? Yeah, it's Max. Oh man, unfollowed.

Wow. But anyways, the mark four R 32 is okay. Honestly. Fucking awesome. So let me, let me, I really actually want you to drive, let explain this to you. How the bro, bro wouldn't like it.

Actually, I would hate it. It too soft. Wait, wait, wait. Let me explain. The why I think it's great is that it is like peak hot hatch. Because the all-wheel drive, I'll admit it's not always there when you need it.

It's basically front wheel. All wheel drive is mostly front wheel drive. Yeah. Okay. It's mostly front wheel drive. I already hate it more, but you can tell. But you can tell your friends.

It's all wheel drive. So like it's that. But like I don't, I, I got, I drove it a ton. Um, I had one in the press fleet. I had a friend who had one. I drove hers all the time. It was, it's just really fun.

And I've driven it on canyon roads, windy roads, like it. They're great. I love them. It's, and it's actually slow car, fast. 'cause it is not an Evo, it is not an STI. But it's still just, it's a fun driver's car.

It's got, it's got a fat steering wheel. It has the best seats. It's got great seats. Great seats. Conex, the shifter. The bolsters are bigger than any car we've discussed. Yeah. On this list.

I think it has a better seat than anyone in any of those cars. Little goofy seating position. Shits at a little lower, but shifter is like, and it's a grocery guy, honestly, almost two. Buttery, smooth.

Like you can just like throw it gear to gear. Mm. Um, which is important in a driver's car of course. Sound great. Yeah, sounds great. They're just, they're honestly, they look good. They're real.

I will give it to you. They look really good. And I'm not a mark for guy, even from the factory dislike Mark four, but the Arthur two does it for me. The, the wheels that came on it, the multis spoke mm-hmm.

I think worked really well on that car. Real touring car style. Yeah. Dude, they're beautiful. It's a beautiful car. It's like, it's cool. I, I really love the Mar four R. Yeah. Not I, on this list.

It's super outclassed. Yeah. I think right away, but completely. It's a good car. Yeah. Okay. So RXC. Dude. Okay. So real quick. Yeah. The Resis is one of the worst engines ever built. Totally. Not just the Mazda engine, but just a really, really bad engine.

But it revs so high, but it revs really high. Yeah. It's actually not that fast. It only made like 230 horsepower. Um, but it is one of the best handling outta the box vehicles I have ever driven both on track and in the canyons.

Hard agree. Like especially for the price point. And now you can pick 'em up for nothing 'cause they're trash carts. Yeah. But most likely the engine's gonna Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Ilya Daley drives on and he always jokes They're ugly too.

We give him a lot of shit because he jokes so much about how it's like he preaches how good of a car it is. Yeah. And it's just. Like it's so ugly that it's hard to, like, it has the weird door, I will say.

Like, they've aged. Okay. Like it hasn't gotten No, it hasn't uglier. It hasn't gotten uglier than when it came out. I, I forget who, but I had someone render it as like a two door. Yeah. Because I was like, what if we fixed the Arc eight?

Because you remember Hoonigan, I'd always have these big ideas. Yeah. Of like, what if we just like built like a carbon side of this thing? Snoopy just quits that day. We just made it a normal ass fucking dude door.

Yeah. And just redid the side of the car. Yeah. And it's like, it looks way better as a two door. It's sure. I could see that. I, whoever thought that the three door, it's, it's almost there.

Like everything is almost there. Like it's the gearings way too long. If you fix the gearing on it. Incredible. Yeah. Like, I don't know, phenomen, I still thought, I still thought the Gar, like it's still, it's still great.

Is it long? It longer? Is it? If Revs to like 9,500, it revs to 9,500, but it's six. But it also has way too long in gears. Mm. Yeah. I think if it had a shorter box, but just like you say, the VR six, it revs to 9,500, whatever, but like it's kind of the same thing from like seven.

Yeah. There's not a whole lot else happening. You're like, mm-hmm. Yeah, because it's only like 230 horse. You're not like going there. Yeah. But it's not about the engine in that car. Like honestly, like that's the type of car that probably would, is good for like an LS swap.

Like, 'cause it's the chassis. The chassis is like really shockingly good. Shockingly good, shockingly good. Like turning is really good. Steering's good. Yeah. The driver's position's really good.

Yeah. As long as like when you're in it, you're pretending it's something else. Sure. I've never driven one, so I don't know. Yeah, you did. We had one, um, we had one at Hoonigan with Scumbag Labs when we did the, yeah, we did scumbag labs called texting while drifting challenge, whatever.

We had the G 35 sedan, uhhuh, and we also had the RX eight. Yeah. How come I don't remember the R eight because I think we blew it up pretty quickly. Uh, no. It had, uh, power steering problems because it's got electric assist power steering and the electric assist failed, which oddly, it's oddly still really good with that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You drove it. I, I remember you, you saying that you liked it a lot. I, we should up to the episode because that was a really fun episode to make. Yeah. And we both had a lot of fun.

Maybe you were in the G 35 and I was in the RX a I remember the, the Rx A of the light beam on it. The light be the light. No, the Light Lightning game Think was on was on the G 30 on Uncle Walter.

Oh, uncle Walter. And the G 35, right? The G 35 that, I mean, tangent. Worst car ever. 1500 bucks. 1500. No, it was just a like a P lsd. Remember that thing shredded so hard it ripped. But remember that car went to Saudi Arabia, a $1,500 G 35.

The went to Saudi Arabia. Yeah. I told Stop fire. And then by mistake, they sent the salt in a brunas Mercedes SL back instead. Yeah, the sl. Yeah, the yellow one. We had it at Hoonigan. Yeah.

Maybe had, yeah. And then it got, then they swapped back and gave us that shit box. Yeah, because remember too, that was so cheap because we got it before takeover. Shit. Heads got got outta the Jeep.

Yeah, the takeover tank. Yeah. It was when those things were cheap, you can get it really easy. Yeah. Yeah. That was a great car. All right, so we gotta pick two cars. So yeah, so RX eight, again, just a great driver.

The thing about the RX eight is like it's, it's the car that you buy because you want to go drive it and you don't want for sure. You don't wanna have to deal with the servicing. You don't want people to see you in it.

Well, I think it's, it's one of those pound for pound cars. Like for what you could buy 'em for now. Uh, I know we're going off of original purchase price. Yeah. So then it gets negated like the RX eight versus like it's closest equal on this list is the GT eight six BRZ and that just smokes it, right?

Like it's, it's everything that chassis is, but cooler looking, better engine, like, you know, all that. Yeah. Um, but, uh, it's a very honorable mention and I think for the price, like it's very hard to beat that driving experience like today in used prices.

You know what it is? I think it's one of those cars that are like, it has to be mentioned in this list. I think that time hasn't done it well. Yeah. So like, it's not really that car that makes the final list, but I, I, I don't think you can talk about the greatest driver's cars of the era and not bring it in.

I love that number. Just mentioned Miata, but well, we'll get, we'll get to that in our blindside. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's a bunch of cars we didn't mention. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, so from Brian's list, what do we move on?

Um, well we already have the, because I was XXI in zero six. Yeah. So xxi XXI has already moved on. Yeah. So basically we've got mco, R 32 RX eight, or BRZB Z's gotta move on, in my opinion, I would say I agree.

'cause it's the only thing from, it's the only thing that's currently added. Dealership you go, it's right now, like, Hmm. Although, I wanna say, so it's a better car than, like, if I had to pick one again to drive, like if we're farting around the canyons, out of that list, it would probably be for me three.

I mean, yeah, it would be that CR 32, you know. No, it would r it would be R 32 Z four M or BRZ. Yeah. From that list. Yeah. Yeah. But then we're like, well we have the E 92, we have E 92. So I'm like, I, that would beat out the Z four M for me.

It would, it, yeah. Yeah. Hundred percent. It wouldn't for me, I, I, I drove both pretty close to each other. 'cause 8,500 rrp, mv, they came out around the same time. But I don't know. The, the E 82 for me just feels like a much, it to me.

That was the beginning of like bloated BMWs. Like I preferred the EI preferred the E 46 to it. And I think that the m coupe is a be, is better than the E 46. I think the MCO is like that secret that no one talks about.

Mm-hmm. And, and probably they're really cool because stylistically the m is a better looking car. But if you're just talking about it from a driver's position, it, it's, to me it's like a nine 11 competitor.

Like, it, it's, it's there. Yeah. I just think, I think the S 60 five's a better engine. Um, R 30 two's really cool. It's knocking all, I don't think it's gonna hold up on the rest of 'em. I mean, I don't know.

RX eight great car, but it's not gonna make the top A lot of buts. It's not gonna make the top five. Yeah. It can't, it, it's not allowed. So I I, it just can't, you know, like the R 32 can't be the top five best drivers cars.

Like, people be, they'll immediately be like, whoa, I'm not listening to this podcast. Yeah. Like it's, they have no idea what they're talking about. Yeah. The people who listen to this podcast, they kind of know what they're getting and look, I'm saying it's a great car, but it's not top five best driver's car for like, it's like it's in the top 27, but it fall.

Yeah. But it falls into a special category because if you like hot hatches. It's a pretty damn good hot hatch. Although you may argue that like the new civic type R is probably a better hot hatch. But I, yeah, we didn't even talk about that.

If you're talking hot hatches a fucking CT R Yeah. FFK eight. Unbelievably good. Yeah. We smoke that thing. So look, I, I would say this, I think the BRZ moves forward. Yeah. ' cause again, it's the only car in the current lineup that you can go buy today with a warranty from a dealership.

Yeah. Yeah. So that moves forward, which I think is really crazy to think like there's somebody from Subaru who's listening to this. 'cause I know a lot of people at Subaru and like the STI doesn't make it into the list.

You wanna know why, but that, but the BRZ does, which like to them is a car that they barely pay attention to. Yeah. Halo car, I think, I think, um, STI did a very similar thing to like the GT three, right?

Mm-hmm. Because the STI came out here at least in oh four. Yeah. And it made 300 horsepower raw and had a six speed. It was like a light car. Yeah. And then. I think now maybe it makes a little more, but like from when I stopped caring about them in like 2018.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. They made 300 horsepower. Yep. And you're like, you're not evolving. Yeah. Like Porsche incrementally kept adding to their like flat six. Na and it doesn't, you know, now it still only makes 500 while the McLaren's are making like a be a billion.

But like it's a, but Porsche also has the turbo and like they got other cars. Can't. Powers, I feel like should have gotten as it's gotten bigger and fatter and more bloated, it should have like evolved a bit, but it should have been become more, but even, but if you go back to the gd, like if you were to sit there and say you only get to own one car and it's either either an EVO or an STI, I'm taking an STI like a 2005, 2006 sti, I, you only get to own one car.

But if I get to have a fun car and another car, I'm buying Evo. Mm. Because I think I, I own, I mean, I da an STI too, s ST's a very easy car to drive. And daily, me and my brother had Evo Evo, STI, he had an Evo, I had an STI.

Oh. And then you swap. And anytime you would drive my cars you'd be like, wow, this is so much nicer to drive. Yeah. Just to me like sitting in traffic and using it stuff. Yeah. Like I'll say this right now if, if you only have one car to buy, I would buy in oh four whatever through oh eight or oh seven STI over an evo because I just think overall it's a better car.

But if you're talking about driving a driver's car, Evo hands down. Yeah. Percent. The STI I like from the factory pushes. It's not the, like the evo. The EVO is so good. We'll get to this later, but the EVO is so good that I actually feel like it shouldn't have been sold to like normal people.

You know what I'm saying? Like that car could get you into trouble like so fast. It, it needs to be gate kept a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, so let's clock's on. So we move the BRZ forward, we move the BRZ, so R 32 RX eight M coupe.

That's MCO has to go. It, it has to move on. I know it's gonna have to compete with the E 92. Remember? We get, but I think it's a good argument. One gets knocked out. One gets knocked out. I think it's a good argument to have the, the other one's like you just, they just don't stack up.

They're cool. They're good. Mention, I wish, I wish I had more experience in the RX eight to comment. 'cause like I, I almost want to bring that one forward, but I just don't know. Yeah. You know, there's an entire group of people who listen to this.

They're like, I can't believe Scotto didn't even mention an Audi. I know I, I'm one of them. You mentioned the Volkswagen and it's not even carried forward. Well, you know what? I was, you know why?

Because I already, because the B seven RS four, I love that car. It's really good. I, I might buy one, but I'm gonna buy one. But I know that the E 92 is just a better driver. You know, it's funny is 'cause when I didn't know that it was gonna be like M-S-R-P-A hundred K.

Mm-hmm Uh, I was excited to go through my list and then have you. Be like, no, 360. 'cause I don't think, like, I wouldn't put a 360 on like best driver's car. I think it's like best theater for under a hundred K now.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not the best driver's car theater. Interesting. I like that. That's a good, that's a good use mean, yeah. You've driven it, you've driven mine, like mm-hmm.

It's a fun car. It is. To make noise and cruise, but like, you're not gonna be like, oh, this is better than fucking, and that was kind of surprising to me. Yeah, it was, what is it boys? Yeah.

Z four. Him Z four for sure. Yeah. I, I, I would, I would, my vote is R 32. I'm just stating that, but you guys out vote me. So we forward, I, I actually would prefer, here's my logic, I would prefer in that list, I would probably pick the R 32 over the Z four M.

But like in the grand scheme of things, it's not making it in the top five. It's, remember though the top five is actually the top six. Yeah. And we can still swap out on the R 30 on a, on a Miss R 32 is two digits.

Yeah. It's a, it's a top it two digit like. After 10 and it's a 12 or 11, but still two. So you're saying it doesn't even fall in the top 10? I doubt it in the grand scheme of cars. And the other thing is too, I, I was like more so focused 2000 to 2010.

Like there's other cars like F 87, M two. Yeah. Great drivers. So let's talk, let, let, let's talk about our, our blind spots here. Oh, okay. Okay. So I like it cars that were not listed, that we, because I went on the Patreon, I gave them the same make your list.

They've had about 24 hours to put something together. So here I just went through quickly and here's some cars that they had, they had a lot of the same stuff we had. Yeah, of course. So I mean, everything we said, they said, except for the M coupe.

The m coupe seems to be the dark horse that No, no. Think about it, dude, I, no, I didn't. I'm happy to bring a dark horse. You know, that's kind of the thing that made me most excited about this episode for sure, is that I brought something that both of you were like, huh, I didn't even, and it's A BMW.

Yeah. Which is not a, not my thing. I was so happy about that. Yeah. Fiesta St. Yeah. Or focus TERS. Right? It's on, it's on the list, right? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, fiesta over focus all day. I know.

Yeah. The focus was cool ish, but the fiesta was just like unreal. Like So you remember driving the I 20 N over in Europe? Yeah. Yeah. And the fiesta was that Plus plus. Oh, okay. I could see it being fun.

Even a stock one was like a lot of fun on dirt. They're so good. Like we had the ones out at um, o' at Tim O'Neill's. Yeah. So great car, um, BM BMW one series and something else kind of just left out.

Hmm. So to me, I really like, see again, when the E 92 came out, I, they, the press launch was the E 92, M three, and the 1 35 I, 1 35 I, and I like the 1 35. I better because it just felt smaller. Again, I like small footprint cars.

Yeah. I, I had a one, uh, E 82. Mm-hmm. What they're called, uh, 1 35. I Great car. Loved it. N 54 me. Yeah. It's just not that awesome of an engine. Yeah. That said, I do think the one M is like one of the coolest modern BMWs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. That with a V eight who, alright, Miata. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Like, there's gonna be a lot of people who are like, you can't, everybody's Miata pick. To be completely honest, I just, I've driven nbs, ncs, uh, I've driven a, a, a good amount of them.

They just don't do anything. Dude, the motor is so boring. Every generation of Miata has the most take a nap engine ever. Yeah. My take is that the BRZ fills that spot. Absolutely. And it's like, like low powered fun to drive, like good driver's car, slightly longer wheel base.

So high cooler, high speed stuff. Works great. Looks cooler is in convertible checks boxes. Yeah. I'm with you a hundred percent. Absolutely. Mini coupeer, JCW. Mm. Like I gotta admit, as a Volkswagen kid, like they did a really good job of making a front wheel.

Also, remember Matt Tic had one that was pretty sick. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty sick One. And it was on NTO three plus X. Were you there when I smoked them? Oh, in the Titan. I smoked them my Nissan Titan.

Yeah, because we were getting Italian ISIS in Long Island because, well, 'cause I, the Nissan Titan had like a 6, 9, 0 to 60 dude. And I would always claim that Scotto was, I would always claim it to Matt a dick because whenever Matt, but this is also like, you know how he is with church man now.

I know. Same. I was just gonna say, do we have to talk about that time that he sm smoked? Larry smoked. I did that. I did that in the last episode. Did you? Yeah, and we ran the footage of it. Oh my God.

That we'll run it again. That's so funny. Um. We didn't mention any mustangs, so realize like in 2005 the Mustang returned as like the, you know, and it looked horribly, but, uh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Hold on. Pause on the oh five Mustang. Ron and I got our competition racing license in oh five Mustangs. That was the worst vehicle dude potentially ever driven. Yeah. Oh, well I, dude, that car sucked.

That was, I erased that from my mind. All I remember is Road America. Great. Track that car. Wow. It was bad. We did a grantor ismo versus reality thing. We spent the whole day at Laguna Seka. Yeah. And you'd get in, you'd like jump in the grantor ismo like sim and, and then you would do laps.

And the RX eight was the only thing that I could get somewhat close to my time in Grand Ismo. I'd go out in the Mustang Cool. And try to do the same, 'cause we were doing RX eight and the oh five Mustang back to back, and I would go out and try to do the same line in the oh five Mustang and just be like completely off.

So maybe I've always driven just the wrong Mustang builds or whatever, but every Mustang I've driven, which is Fox Body, Terminator, Cobra, the oh five, like whatever that generation is, you know what they all feel like to me, you know when you get into a roller coaster and that bar kind of clicks in, but everything's just got play.

Every like hard mount thing has play, but then there's like a big like stupid like foam thing. It just, every Mustang has felt like that. Have you driven the newer one? I haven't. And I heard those are phenomenal.

I, you drove me, you and I drove one. I forget where we were going, but I remember the whole time It has like the auto blipper and you and I were just screaming at the car 'cause we couldn't get it to turn off.

Uh, the one thing I remember because it was just like, you'd be like, you would be blip yourself. Yeah. And it would blip on your blip. Well, the craziest thing is we had that bullet Mustang. Yeah.

Maybe that was it. I don't remember. It was like a, whatever year that was, was probably 2017. Yeah. Uh, and I remember driving it and it had like a clutch delay valve throttle blip thing. Yeah. That was, yeah.

That you couldn't shut off so you could shift it and just sidestep the clutch every, you just move your foot off the side. Yeah. And it's just smooth. Yeah. And I was like, this sucks. Just off the spring.

I was like, you're literally, so you can't like power shift. Well it was just like. It felt like you were just like doing the motions of driving a manual, but you could do everything wrong. Guys, this is a whole other firing order, which is new tech.

That really sucks in new cars. Oh, for sure. Because it's all the stuff that automakers have put in cars that just make cars not fun to drive. Yeah. I don't know. Mustangs never really struck me as like good driver's cars though.

Yeah. I don't know. I agree. The, I, I think the GT three 50 R. Yeah, the that one. I haven't driven one. I would like to try it out because I think that's one of the ones that would like probably change my mind.

Yeah. But the rest of 'em, I'd like to try. Yeah, I would like to try, uh, I don't know. No, sorry, it's not GT three 50. 'cause those rule. Yeah. Uh, I actually really enjoy that car, but, um, there's tons of comments on one of my videos when I did like a, trying to find like a driver's car for under 50 grand or some shit.

They kept saying Boss 3 0 2 Mustang is like a stripper pack mustangs. I love how little all of us know. I know. To like 8,500 r pm and stuff like, it's supposed to be really cool. But yeah, I don't know.

Mustangs, they never, I was never a Mustang. My dad's got a Mustang, like I enjoy driving one at my dad's house. He had both the oh five and then he has like one that's, I don't know, four years old or something.

Like it's okay. But like he, the only reason he has is 'cause he's older and big and it's one of the few convertibles that like he fits in. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And that's like, that's why he got, I do dream of owning a Terminator Cobo one day for sure.

Oh yeah. Those are six. But just as a like 13, 20, well, you know, style. Yeah. You know, Ashley just do a couple poles. Yeah. You know, Ashley was like a big Mustang person. She was an SN 95 girl.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah. So anyway, uh, other ones. We didn't mention STI. We talked about that as to why. Yeah. Um, another one that came up on the list a couple times, which I was actually surprised to see was the neon SRT four.

SRT four I like, but I don't think it was a driver's car. I think it was, it wasn't, I think it was like upset someone on the highway car 'cause it ran 13 seconds. The world's greatest sleeper.

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. But I don't know. It's not making it on no top anything. That's a good firing order, by the way. Best sleepers. I never drove that car because by the time I was a journalist, the caliber SRT four came out.

And I will tell you right now, not a good driver's car. Shock. Shock. Not good. The SRT four is really cool though. And I just saw a yellow one on marketplace that looked clean for like six grand and I was like, fuck, that's cool.

So, and the other one, which the other night they also, can we just say real quick? Yeah. Huge. F Mike on those things. Oh yeah. Big old front mount, inner cooler baby. That shit was sick. Oh yeah.

All right. And they just made dumb power. Yeah. Yeah. They were good. That was Prec crackle tune. They were crackling. Yeah, they were crackling. Yeah, it was sick. Okay. Uh, and then the last one, which like wasn't even on my radar, but Nick, our producer, mentioned it the other day and then someone called it out again.

I'm thinking this must be like some weird European thing. Is the Toyota Celica or Sica if you are from GTS? Yeah. Like, do you remember that kind of course. You know, jolly just mentioned it the other day 'cause he was like, no one cares about about America.

Do you remember the one that we saw at Road America? That one was sick. Yeah, that one was you. No. What? That's not a driver's, that's not a driver's car, but, but it's not a driver's car.

But clearly Nick doesn't stand alone like I think in Europe. Like where they, you sure it wasn't Nick on a different username? It might Ah, it's Nick's burner Nick on the internet. Nick's burner account.

Nick's burner. I don't know. They're cool. But anything. Well, is there anything else that you feel like is a blind side that we didn't, we didn't mention? Uh, I mean, catfish, Camaro, A ek EK Civic type R?

No. 'cause 2000 plus. Oh, right. EK new type bar. 98. Well, yeah. Yeah. The, the new civic, new type, new type. R is good. New type bar is pretty good. Anything else? Oh, um, RSX. Yeah. Those fun.

RSS type Best. Those, those are fun. I never drove that, so I guess, oh dude, those are sick. They're really fun. Those are sick. They're really fun and they like, the looks are starting to come back to me.

I love the, like a white one. Type R style. Yeah. Would the, would the, they're pretty good. Would the Hyundai Elantra end hit the mark for you guys? It wouldn't be on like top 10, but, but it's a good driver's car.

It's one of those that really surprises you. I just think that available in the market now. It's on the list. 'cause like I don't think a GLI or anything Volkswagen offers is on the list. No, I drove the new GTI, the mark, whatever, eight and a half or something.

I would take an Elantra and over it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, um, we're gonna take a little quick break and we'll come back and we'll order this. All right. That won't be hard at all. No hard in this story.

Time interruption brought to you by my good friends at FCP Euro. I bet this in past episodes, I bought a van gun and it is quickly becoming my new daily driver. It's replacing both the Audi RS two and my Rabbit.

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But the other day I got caught in a gale force windstorm. It, it was. Pretty serious. And look, I have driven in some really, really sketchy situations. But this one was, was up there. I was doing 70 miles an hour with a 70 mile an hour crosswind.

And let's just say it exposed some weaknesses in the suspension area. The next day, I threw the jack underneath 'cause I had to see what all of the wobbling was about. It wasn't what was wrong, it was what is not wrong.

Every bushing seemed just beat to hell. The wheel bearings were slightly out of compliance, meaning they shook a little bit. I figured. All right, it's time to fix it. I headed over to fcp euro.com, opened up the cart.

And just started filling it and like pulling a thread on a sweater. You know how it is began with bushings and then bearings. And then while you're in there, I added brakes. Continue to fill up the cart.

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They will be your best friend supporting your very, very bad decisions. You know, I'm honestly kind of surprised that a RS four wasn't on your list because I was ready to have that conversation with you.

You ready to have that fight? Yeah. Yeah. Engine in front of the drive engine in front handle's terrible. But I, I, I want to hear your rebuttals on it, and I was shocked that wasn't on your list.

I'll, I'll fight on the RSS four, but I think it's like that. Like you're hot by comparison. Like at three 30 in the morning, your bar changes a little bit. Yeah. You know, at the bar and the, the RS four is your third open of the fridge.

No, but, but starts the RS four is when you start thinking ketchup's a snack, but here's why. No, it's a single slice of cheese. But yeah, you could do a lot with a single slice of cheese.

Yeah. Oh yeah. But here, here's why. Because the RS four is one of the best handling Audis ever made. That's not an re No, it really is. Like they, okay, so, so, so I'll, I'll compare it to what about like the tt?

I'll compare it to the RS three, no, RS four, the tt, the new RS three, the TTS care of is an R 32. The new RS three is, is definitely the new newest one. The newest, newest one. That one was fun. Handles really well, it handles really well.

But being DSG, I have a hard time saying it's like a real driver's car. I don't know, that's just like a line for me. I feel like you, I don't, I don't think a, to me, nothing. With an automated manual or DCT or, I don't think that really fits in.

I, I don't know, like a driver's car is a different, it's fine. That's a whole other argument to have. Uh, I'd say I'll argue on that because it's not the right, the conversation for now, but yeah.

Simply because mm-hmm. F four 30 scooter. Yeah. Mm. Come on. That's like one of the best driver's cars ever. Yeah. And it was only F1. Look, I, I like my car. Car and the 360 challenge holiday.

I like my 360 with the F1 and like, but I don't know, they just years, the, the DCT on the E 92 was really, are you a driver? Really good. Are you a driver though? If you're not like doing all the pedals?

Yeah. Doing all, I would say, yeah. I, I, I say, I would say that yes, there are drivers that are drivers True, true. That prefer A DCT because A, the E 92 was designed around it. Yeah. Right.

So you actually get more of the spirit of the car from it. Oh. Would you make the, would your E 92 be DCT or manual? No, it would be manual, but I'd like the DCT. Right. Yeah. Because I think everything else on our list is.

100% manual. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So look, I think there's those standouts, but I think, in my opinion, most drivers, true drivers' cars are manual. Yeah. Yeah. Most, yeah, for sure. And the outlier is there's an occasional outlier.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like I know DSG is faster, but it's not as much fun. Right, right. And like this isn't about fast. Right. Because I think it's like this was about fast than the zero six wins. Right, of course.

Fastest of course. Yeah. Yeah, by far. But, but is it the reason why the R 32 almost made the list was because like, it's fun. It's like that's part of a driver's car is that it's fun to drive. Yeah. It's a like a mystical combo that you can't really nail down.

Yeah. So thing on the RS four, RSS four up against E 92, I think the RS four actually has better turnin. But it is not it. No, it does it. It has re It has amazing steering. Like they figure it out on the B seven RS four.

But it is not as predictable as the M three mm. Like the M three, like the faster you drive it, the more predictable it gets. Where the faster you drive the RS four, the better chance of you dying.

Cost. Not a good way. Not in a good way. 'cause no one wants to push off the cliff. Yeah, that's right. You know what I'm, that's like, there's definitely that's like surprise. Understood. Yeah. Like it's just a weird dynamic.

Yeah. But as far as Audis go, up until that point, when that car came out in whatever, 2007, 2008, it was one of the best handling, uh, Audi. So have you have either of you guys driven the RS four No.

On the street? Maybe you should drive the B seminars for Yeah, it's, it's, it's actually quite good. I like being an Audi hater, but there are quite a bunch of Audis that I do like. And that engine, I think that engine's better than, oh wait, I think I drove an older RSS four.

No, which one did Justin have? Uh, Justin's super, not the blue one. I think that was a B seven RS four B seven is oh 6 0 7. I think it's oh 7 0 8. Yeah. Yeah, they're cool. I drove the old one, but I, I mean I've liked all the s fours.

They're like, they're, I like all the cars. I like, I like them. I just like top driver cars. Tough. Yeah. I think it belongs in the, like it's in the top 15. Mm-hmm. It's an almost there. Whatever. I'm gonna buy one.

Yeah, you should. Absolutely. Jen. Jen Horsey has one for selling. I might just go buy her. Anyway. Alright, so the time has come to list our list. So as a reminder, so we have E 92, M three, EVO nine, we have XCC 6 0 6 and we have BRCM coupe, which is the weirdest two cars coming from my list, but I still support them.

So I think the first thing we have to discuss is, which goes, uh, honestly, on this whole list, I think I would just scratch am coupe and be fucking chilling. I, I think the MCOs a better car than the United 2 0 3 jab.

You're not gonna win that battle anywhere. Not against us two, because you guys both had one. No, not even that. But again, I, I, you know, beat a dead horse, but like the access you have to that engine, you don't get anywhere else.

And the, the feeling that that engine gives you mm-hmm. Is crazy. Good. Yeah. Like that thing screaming like on a highway in a canyon, whatever. And it just doesn't quit up until like north of eight. Like ah, it's crazy and, and reliable.

The thing is like, I love the S 54, but they're pieces of shit, not like mm-hmm. It's not like they're gonna grenade, but it's like constant sensor problems and very sensitive. They're pretty finicky engines where like, dude, uh, Alex Bernstein was tracking his very, very used E 92 M three for the longest time, 160 had a cage cut outta it.

Like Yeah. 160,000 miles or something like that. Yeah. Never open the motor track day after track, day after. Well it's got Why, why do you like the E 92 more than the E 46? Honestly, just 'cause I had both.

And the E 46 is like, I joked about, uh, this on like, I did the M three generation episode. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, uh, the E 46 was BMW's apology for the E 36. Yeah. No, I agree. I, I think great.

But it's, I think the E 86 is the most basic overhyped car ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially the US spec. But the E 46 was a terrible car. You think so? Like physically, the people consider it one of the best m threes.

Oh, I'm, and they'll agree with me here. Physically a bad chunk of metal, like the, the, the, oh, the subframe would rip out. The subframe rips out. Yeah. The under the seat breaks, but Okay. Remove all that, just the driving experience because like, it's, then it's really, it's like you're like splitting hairs.

I mean, so what's more fun to drive an E 46 Yout if you're splitting hairs? The MCO is better than the E 46 M three. And then the problem is, is neither of you have driven it. It fucking is. It is.

And I don't stand alone here. Oh, better than the E 46 M three. If you're saying the E 46, M three, just driving ones. And the driving experience of the E 92 is splitting hairs. I'm telling you that the Z four M coupe is a better driving experience and the E 46 stock stock to stock 1%.

Sure. Yeah, I bet. I bet. Yeah. Because I've never driven an mco. Yeah. I can't say, but, uh, I could see it, I could see it being true. Just, just it being lighter. Yeah. The only thing I could argue is that it's newer than an E 46 M three, so it probably.

Added some like deadening? Yeah. Some sound deadening. No, actually it's the opposite. Some niceties? No, no, no. It's actually opposite. Really? Yeah. It's not like more numb. No, they actually made it more raw.

Oh. The coupes actually more raw. I don't drive one of these. They can hear the entry more inside the cabin, which was always like a complaint of the E 46 was like, it felt too neutered inside. It comes with CSL breaks, like, ah, okay.

We're gonna, we're gonna Google one thing and we're gonna see, uh, if it's less than, if it's 3,100 pounds, I, I'll Okay, go. I'll come around your way. Go. So, Z four, I've got the stats right here.

Mku, while you're looking that up, it's uh, it is, um, first off it's 50 50 weight. It's 3200, 3032 20 or something like that. Yeah. Not bad, honestly. They're pretty cool. Yo. By the way, this is the most slept on car of 2026.

Everybody. He should go buy one before this comes out. All right. I want Ready Ron Uhhuh. This shit goes kind of crazy. Yeah, actually kind of sick. What? Look, unbuilt for back roads. You've already got, you already back, like with Arrow and that's really good.

I'll send you these so you can put 'em on screen. These are, this is cool. This a Oh yeah. This thing's kind of, it's it's slept on. I think it's a really, I I've known about them. I thought they were cool.

I just like, you kind of forget about 'em. Totally. They're, they're little goofy looking. That's, that's, Brian likes 'em. But you know why it looks goofy? Because you've seen the M six of that generation and that's a do looking car.

Yeah. The Z Forum coupe is cool. That's a dope car. Okay. Wow. Alright, so let, let's just discuss what else could go. I, I, I think I. Dude, there's only unfor and like, I know it's because of the way we did the order, so it's not a, a dis at you, but it's your car as that go.

I don't, I don't, I think I, for me, for me, I, I would, I'll tell right now just because we went first, I'll tell you right now, my target would be the E 92 M three. I just think it's like the more bloated M three, I think you like, I think you lost, again, like I said, I drove that.

I, so I drove that same day or the same week I drove that the, whatever the, the, uh, one series, 1 35, 1 35 I, and I drove the Mini coupeer jcw. Yeah. All at the, all in the same press launch at Laguna Seca and then drove down through Big Sur and I think the M three was like the least exciting car of the weekend.

Right? Here's, here's my biggest problem with this is without Ron and I having driven a Z four M coup. Like, we're not gonna come around and agree other than the fact that you are a way better arguer.

Like, so like if it just comes down to sheer arguing, like you're gonna win and we'll just like eventually I've just throws nukes eventually for no reason. I'm also willing to go for hours.

And I was gonna say like, I'll leave. What is your pod? Yeah, so I'll leave. It's fine. Ron will stick around a couple more hours, but then eventually he'll tire out he'll to get fall asleep, like, and I'll just be here by myself.

All right. So, okay. Okay. It's the, it's between the two BMWs though, but though the, I mean, let's ask though, like hands down, the MCU is a better car than the BRZ, but we're saying that the BRZ deserves to be on the list because, well, I just, it's modern day because it's like an entry level card.

Yeah. But if you took this list and then you had like in E 92 and then an M coupe, that'd be like. It redundant. It's the ultimate driving machine that would be like, oh yeah. Uh, like a B BMW fan.

Z four ME 92, M three, Evo nine. Evo eight. Evo seven. Yeah. You know, like then it gets stupid. I mean, right now we got an American car, we have a Japanese car, we have a British car. We have German cars.

I was gonna say, Xi almost feels like Subaru to me. It's like World WDM. It's WDM. It's world Domestic Market. Yeah. By the way, can you explain Yeah. To who the audience, what world, domestic market is, because it's such an inside joke.

We, oh my God, I didn't even know where it began, but like because, well, we all agreed that we all thought Subaru is from Australia. We grew up, we were all not Subarus from Australia because Paul Hogan was like their.

And you're not gonna say ambassador, a DM and Subaru sounds like kangaroo Subaru's. Like, it makes perfect sense. So, so we all grew up thinking called the Outback Subaru was a world domestic market.

Car Subaru is WDM and also Ex Exceed is W DM because it's too good to be British. And it still is because like no one, like the JDM kids aren't like, yeah, JDM I've got a Subaru. Like, no. Right. Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

They, they're their owns WDM you know what it's like the draft, it's like, you know, it's like, remember how like, like the race, like the race draft? Yeah. It's like that, it's like something they just got missed in the draft and World dm.

Right, right, right. Because J DM is like the, you know, all the like old grant tours, like the NSX, the super, the RX seven. Yeah. The super, like, they just get forgotten. That's that's world. Yeah.

You are world domestic market. You're a world, you're made some way by the way. Which by the way, world Domestic Market, it's World Series is WRC. That's true. That's true. Let's be on like Citron, all those weird cars.

Those are all W DM cars, Ford, Puma. Wait, it's a Ford, but it's, but what? We never got it. Whatever. Yeah. Okay. Um, okay. BRZM coupe. Like, do does BRZ move forward? Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah.

I think it has to. I, I think it's like, it shocked me. It shocked everybody. When we were filming Gym Kana 2022, the one in Maryland, we had a pre-pro, one of the second generation. The first generation doesn't even like bear mention anywhere.

It was way too slow to do anything. Second gen, we got a very, very early one. Scott speed, once a Formula One driver then won a bunch of other stuff. Really, really good driver. He got behind the wheel and we're like, oh God.

Like he's driven everything in the world. We're giving him a bone stock, like bone, bone stock, like the tires were not good tires. And uh, we gave it to him and we're like, Hey, like we wanted you to do like a drift around a pole or whatever.

Just go do like a quick tester just to feel it out. And he gets out and he's like. This thing's sick. He's like, what is this? Race Car drivers in production cars is the most disappointing moment ever.

Yes. They're always disappointed. We would do stories, but they're always disappointed. We've got blah, blah, blah to drive this like Tommy Kendall and he is like, this thing is piss poor best.

You're like, oh, I thought it was pretty cool. Yep. And then 0.2 was when we were doing the East Coast trip, we had an S 2 0 9 and A BRZ. Yeah. And S two Oh nine's. Like bad daddy. Like Yeah. Carbon roof, like all of us.

Oh, was an S 2 0 9. Sorry. It was No, it was. It was a type ra. No, I think it was T. It wasn't S, that's right. And we were like all fought. This is, we fought so hard to drive it and everybody started calling it the S 16 or something.

'cause they were like, it's the ch, it's the S chassis after the S 15. Oh, oh, the BRZ. They were calling the S. Yeah. BZ. Yeah. Hurt coined that. Yeah, because, because we were fighting on driving the S 2 0 9 and hurt was just like, yeah, whatever.

Real, real drive car. And then neck and neck on the highway, neck and neck on the highway. And then neck and neck on the highway. We. Full course. Drifted. That's right. Rock, lime. Rock. Rock, rock.

The little track. Yeah. Bone, bone stock. Yeah. And like it was awesome. Granted it needs a little bit more angle for drifting, but like if you modulated angle, it was like incredible. Unbelievable.

And then we hit, we had that, I missed that 'cause I was working on my rabbit and then showed up late and got to run last. Oh that's right. Then you ran, which was really fun. Ran the, uh, the eastern bunny and then we had the, the one, the long term one that we had at Hoonigan.

Then we did a giveaway one where we drove They're awesome S 2000 back to back with. And remember we drove S 2K on streets of Willow with the BRZ. Same mods. Same. We both liked the BRZA lot better. Yeah.

That was crazy. Yeah, it's not the most thrilling car. And I think compared to these other cars on here, it's quite slow, but it's the good car. It's a, but again, yeah. This is about the driving experience.

Yeah. Like does it feel good? Like when you are at speed going into a corner, how it talks to you. It just, it every, it talks to you the whole time. We have that in the C at the same time. And I remember time and time again taking That's right.

The BRZ over it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I have a presser outside right now, so it's sick. Alright, so, okay. BRZ beats out M coupe. Yeah, that's a good list. So, okay, so now let's order it.

So, oh man, EVO nine top all day. Wait, wait, do we gonna go from the top or we wanna go? We could, uh, we could do whatever. All right, let's go from the bottom. B rzs at the bottom. So is B.

Yeah. 'cause we, so BRZ, 'cause Adam Bz comes else in fifth place. The engine, uh, Evo nine maybe, but the engines on all the other cars have a bit of more soul. B-R-Z-G-T eight six. Right? Yeah.

Um, okay, so what sits in forth. So I would say E 92 and three. I would agree. Because I think I agree. Yeah. Oh really? Wow. That was easy. Yeah. Okay. Because it's cool, but I thought, I just figured both of you guys had one.

They lazy, but like not, not over a C six. They're great, but like in stock trim, you know, they need a little waking up. They need stuff. Yeah. Then I think it would be, I haven't driven in xi, so I think like XI and C six are gonna fight for a spot.

So I'm gonna go ahead and say that. I'd imagine they're like similar in complete opposite ways. I think that the, I think the, you know what I mean? Like, 'cause they're both like wildly impractical sports cars.

Wait, wait, which two excision? C six. See, you know, for me, I think actually the fight is exe and Evo nine because they both only do one thing well, and that's drive like, like, uh, untrue because the second it rains, the second there's sand anywhere, the second there's snow.

Like Evo nine's just gonna be, you're gonna have fun in it everywhere you are not having fun in the snow in an Xi that thing's mid engine, it's gonna spin around on you. You're not able to get the weight over the fall.

Are you arguing for an Audi right now? Is the Audi argument? No, I'm VO nine. It's like the BMW's good until it snows. You'll be, you live in New England. Oh my God. Oh my God. Don't you dare. You're drinking dunk.

Don't you dare. I fucking love Dunking guy. Oh man. Um. Yeah. I, to me I think the C 6 0 6 is third. I would agree. I just, I, I, because as a driver's car, the C six on track better car, but like, just as a regular, like just a regular driver's car, I actually think you have to drive a C 6 0 6 a little too fast on the street.

Totally. Yeah. For, to really be enjoyable. That was my number one. I drove a ZR one C six ZR one. Yeah. Yeah. I was so excited. Dude. They're scary. Yeah. I was so excited to drive it, and then I was like, yeah, what the fuck do you do with this?

We just took it before, you know, like it's a car, you get a ticket in. Yeah. Yeah. Like every time you do a second gear pull and you're like, oh yeah. I'm fucking doing a hundred. Yeah. Like this is, the consequences are way higher.

Yeah. Okay. I, I'm, I'm with it. I'm with number three being C 6 0 6. I don't know if I feel like EVO nine is the best. Well, this is, I've got an argument for, but let's get into it. Good. So here's.

I love the EVO nine. I always talk about it. Mm-hmm. It's just great. It is. There's so much about that car that just is like, it makes heroes out of Okay. Drivers. Exactly. I think the XXI makes great drivers great.

I actually don't think the XXI is an easy car to drive. Here's my, and I think that actually makes it a better driver's car because I think a real good driver's car has to have a skill level. You can't pick, you can't pick easy on it.

Yeah. The Evo, you can be like, you can not be good at something and fucking put together a pretty good fucking lap on. I'll say that. The thing that bums me out about the Evo the most, and like people gimme a lot of gripe with this, is that it's not a sports car.

Like the Evo is a homologation. Yeah, it's a lancer, bro. It's a lancer. It's a tared up base car or barrage depending on, yeah. So, which is cool, but like when you drive it. It's like you're sitting in a shitty sedan.

Yeah, that's sick. Whereas, you know, I think a lot the other cars on these lists are dedicated sports cars, so they feel a little bit more like realize that the only car here, I mean granted the M three you could have gotten as a four-door, but like, but still all of these luxury four door are all these cars.

Oh, oh four doors. Right, right. Know what I'm saying? Like coupe, like coupe sports car. Whereas like the lancer, it's what I love about it, but it also I think really takes back from it being like, when I look at driving a car, I recently like your opinion on the e oh nine's a little rough because like you had.

The craziest Evo, but I also had a completely bone stock one. Yeah. A long time ago. A long time. I get you right. Okay. Nevermind. And at one point I own two. Yeah. Yeah. And he's also had WR X's.

Yeah. So he's, he's had a bunch of other stuff. I forgot that you had the stock Rs in your other car. Yeah. And the stock rs I daily drove in the mountains for a longest time because it's, you know what I mean though?

Like, it doesn't feel like a sports car inside, so it's hard to give it like top, but I, where, where I will agree with you on that is if it's a longer drive. Yeah. Right. Like if it's, if it's a pretty like an hour, two hours, like that kind of stretch, I feel like you'll get tired out Yeah.

In something like the, the Evo, whereas well ex Yeah. Actually you're right. I drove the Exci from la That's right. When Ken used to live in, uh, Rancho Santa Fe, I drove from LA to Rancho Santa Fe in the Exci.

And I got down there and like, I immediately was like, I need a massage. You're in a toaster oven, just like in like two hours. You're just in a toast room. I need to drive one. I need to drive one.

Yeah. You really, so bad. Um, but yeah, I mean, it is one of my favorite cars of all. I mean, for me, I, I, I do really like your argument about how the xxi makes great drivers. Great. Yeah. But that's such a small percentage of people where the Evo, you jump in and it doesn't matter if you're 60% great or 90% great, you're gonna have fun 100% and you're gonna like, do really cool shit in that car also.

I think that matters a lot. So I'll argue that the, the one thing that I found fun about Evos, uh, was when I first, like, me and my friends had these cars when we were younger. Uhhuh, we lived in fucking Long Island, most boring roads ever.

Yeah. They're super fun in straight lines. Yeah. Yeah. Super fun around town. Yeah, they're fun on track. They're fun in the canyons. Like, whereas, you know, I think a lot of cars on this list, like I bet in Xi.

Not really fun to just like light to light. No, no. You know, that's a good point. Like, whereas like the in Evo is a, could be a drag car and they were, I mean a MS built, they did CR crazy before GTRs and RS threes showed up.

They were the drag car. That's another blind side. Nah, GTR not no, no. But I think we should bring it up 'cause I think other people bring it up. I hated the GTR as like a driver's car. I think it's really cool.

It's a sick car, R 35, but it felt like driving a piece of granite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it just completely agree. Big, heavy, completely. I've only driven one R 35 skyline and it was uh, or R 35 GTR and it was like a fully built time attack.

Oh really? I've never, I've only, I've only driven a bone stock one. That was cool. Yeah, because it was a fucking race car. I mean like imagine full carbon everything roll cage, like built trans, you know, like of course it's gonna be, but it's a, it's a totally different experience.

Yeah. I've never driven like a stock streeter one. So, so, so I would go, honestly, I just convinced myself because of. Fun in every single use case. Evo. Yeah. I, uh, that's I think where I lean, I, I, I walked into here thinking I was gonna fight to the death that the Exci was the greatest driver's car, but the Exci is the greatest driver's car on one type of road.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Canyon Road, where we're like, the Evo is fun in snow. Yeah, it's fun on a dirt road. Oh. Oh, now you say it. Oh, now you, now you do the Audi guy argument. Fucking blast. I was gonna be earlier, I was gonna end on the Audi guy Argument planned all along.

That's fair. That's fair. But yeah, every use case, it's a great car. Every use case. And to me, like the other cars, you get in and it's like, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but there's this feeling of like, you get an xi and it's like.

It is a sports car. You kind of treat it like a sports car. The Evo to me is like when you show up at a go-kart track in the middle of a mall with your friends and you look over and you're like, this shit is going down.

Right. Like I'm wrecking all of you. Also, it's the reason that's what the Evo feels like. That's like the S 2000 didn't make it on this list. And I think like the one thing that kills me with SS 2000 is like you could have fun on track and in the canyons, but like light to light snoozer.

Yeah. You know, like revving to nine K is fun. Making the noise is cool, but then like you're still with traffic. But the other thing that street race you and I had on the way to Scotts the other day, the other thing I'll give the Evo over the exes is it's a better engine.

Yes. Like turbo one. Turbo over supercharger all day. Yeah. Especially my later on like four, six. Yeah. It's like it's a good engine. Yeah. Like that Toyota Engine's kind of whatever. We made it there it is.

We first, I didn't think I was gonna be able to make it happen, but expiring order. Evil nine. First episode, the official list. Number five, the BRZ number four, gen two, gen two.

Yes. Number two cannot mistake also. And also the GT six, number four, the E 92, M three, number three, the C six, Z six. Number two, the Lotus Xie S and number one, the EVO nine. Any class, Mr. Whatever rss.

It would be, uh, it would be fun to pair this pod with, uh, with, you know, we get into a little pickle and we can't size and we have to go drive these cars. Oh yeah. Is that like, I would love to drive.

I think we need to go find an exce. This is what we should do is do this on your channel. Yeah. That Let's go drive the xis and a and a mco. Ooh. Because I think all the other cars we have experience in, I think that that would be a great one.

The forgotten drivers era are cars. Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's Because they, yeah, I would love to drive because they're both drivers era are cars. Because I, I mean, it's funny, Ron and I did not consider them coupe at all.

Like I didn't even, I didn't even think about that. It's off the map. It doesn't even second you said it, I was like, that's right. That's right. You know I did my homework. I know. Come on. I know shit.

Also, I go last, like as the host, I go last, which puts me in the worst place because let's be honest. So, you know, you gotta come with something. Yeah. Because I like all of these things is fucking hard.

Is hard as hell. It's hard, it's cool as shit. Yeah. Screen grab that so we can throw it up for everybody. Yeah, I do guys. Um, okay. If you guys have a problem with this list, uh, I don't know, drop your list below, let us know.

Um, maybe we'll revisit it, but I dunno, this feels pretty good to me. I was, I knew Evo nine or Xxi were gonna be in the top. I knew Z six was gonna make the list. I think the BRZ belongs there. I would've fought for the M coupe over the M three, but.

It's a damn list. There's a lot of caveats to like good like, 'cause you gotta think about it like we're talking about like you know, I'm joking about R 34, R 32 GTI not being in like the top 10. 'cause realistically like you could build out a fucking hundred.

Like Ron and I talked about building like the best driver's car a hundred cars. 'cause you're like, yeah ev there's so many. There's so many. You know, there's so many. Yeah. So it's like, yeah. All right guys, well that was firing order.

This is our first rotating assembly, which is the crew of all of us who make these decisions. I know you, you know, I love that. Anyway, thanks boys. That's it. This is Brian. Shorter show. It is by like an hour.

It's an hour shorter. The red light. The red light. Just shy of an hour. 45. The red light has been on for 25 minutes because this was supposed to be in Nick's head. This was an hour and a half. But yeah, hour and 25.

Still pretty. Just 15 over. That's not bad. Yeah. Hope you guys like this. Let us know in the comments, all that good stuff and uh, thank you boys. Well I hope you guys come back soon. We'll be back.

Always. Thanks everyone for watching. I have been wanting to make the show for a long time. It's finally out. I'm stoked on it. I hope you guys are too and we want to hear from you. So please drop a comment, let us know what you thought, let us know what you want us to do more in the future, and obviously like, subscribe.

And of course, most importantly, share with a friend. And if you wanna be a bigger part of this conversation on how this show gets made and also the after fight. 'cause let's be honest, not everyone's gonna agree with the list.

Join the Patreon. That's where the fight is. Vyper Industrial makes the best damn shop stools ever. Go buy 'em. Okay, now that we've got that out of the way, I wanna take a moment to really thank Vyper.

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