A “pickup” usually means a truck with an open cargo bed behind the seats. The argument here is whether this EV truck’s bed is big enough to still count as a real pickup.
They’re about to argue about what makes something a “real truck.” Is it the shape (like having a bed), or is it what it’s meant to do?
Car
Piaggio Ape
The Piaggio Ape is a very small three-wheeled vehicle that can carry stuff. People use it like a little truck because it has a cargo area behind the cabin.
“F-150 jobs” means the kind of work people expect a normal pickup truck to do—like hauling and getting things done. It’s using the Ford F-150 as an example of a capable work truck.
On a pickup truck, the “bed” is the open box in the back where you put cargo. The hosts are saying that’s why pickups are good for dirty or bulky stuff.
Term
two CV
“2CV” is short for a Citroën car called the 2CV. It’s a simple, old-school small car, and the hosts are saying Chile made a local version inspired by that idea.
The tailgate is the back door on a truck that can swing down. It helps you load tall or awkward items, and you can leave it down so the cargo can stick out a bit.
The Ford Lightning is Ford’s electric pickup truck. The hosts are saying people might assume a new EV pickup would be like the Lightning, but Ford wants to set different expectations.
The Ford Maverick is a small pickup truck from Ford. The host is using it as an example of Ford making a compact truck because that’s what customers actually want to buy.
Rivian is an electric-vehicle company. The point here is that they’ve made their cars feel like something you’d want, not just something you need.
Term
front
On many electric cars, there’s storage up front instead of an engine. The host is saying that front storage can be really useful for carrying bags and luggage.
The Volkswagen ID. Buzz is an electric van. It’s made to be used like a regular van, but it runs on electricity instead of gas. The podcast mentions a road trip and gives an estimate of its driving range.
“Charging at home” means plugging the EV in at your house or apartment so it’s ready when you need it. The host says it makes a smaller EV much more convenient.
“Entry level trim” is the base version of a model line, typically with fewer features and a lower price than higher trims. When Ford quotes a range target for the entry-level trim, it implies that even the cheapest configuration is expected to meet roughly the same headline usability goal.
A “clean sheet” design means the car was designed fresh, not just modified from an older design. That can help the EV be shaped and built for efficiency from the start.
The Honda Ridgeline is a pickup truck that’s meant to feel comfortable and easy to drive. The podcast talks about the second generation and specifically the earliest version before Honda updated it. That usually matters because updates can change features or design details.
The Ford F-100 is an older pickup truck model from Ford. People mention it when they’re talking about classic trucks or pointing out a specific example, like a red one. It’s not a modern model name used for today’s trucks.
The Dodge Challenger is a performance car that’s known for a sporty, muscle-car style. People often talk about it because it reminds them of older muscle cars from past decades. In the podcast, it’s mentioned as a specific model from that era.
The Dodge Rampage is an older Dodge pickup that looks more like a small car than a typical truck. The hosts are pointing out that its front end is shaped in a way that still looks stylish.
The Chevy SSR is a special Chevrolet pickup that was designed to look more like a fun, stylish car than a work truck. They’re mentioning it as another example of a truck-like vehicle with a distinctive front-end look.
The host is talking about making a pickup look more “sporty,” like a performance car. They think the front-end shape—especially a tapered nose—can make a truck feel more athletic.
A “tapered nose” means the front of the vehicle gets narrower as it goes forward. The host thinks that shape makes the truck look faster and more athletic.
Fender flares are the plastic or metal pieces that stick out over the wheel area. They can make the truck look wider and more aggressive, and sometimes they help cover tires.
The host is imagining a pickup with four doors (a crew cab) that’s styled to look sporty, like a performance car. They’re saying this combo is rare in the real world.
The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is an electric SUV/crossover. The host is saying that for similar money, buyers might choose it instead of a pickup if the pickup doesn’t offer a strong reason to switch.
The Rivian R2 is an electric vehicle made by Rivian. The podcast mentions it because the host drove it and wants to share what it’s like. It’s part of the conversation about new electric cars coming out.
The Bugatti Veyron is a very expensive, very fast supercar. It’s built for maximum performance rather than everyday practicality. The podcast mention suggests the conversation is about setting the record straight on details people get wrong.
LIVE
Hey, it's David Tracy with Jason Torchinsky.
This is Carbage Time, the Autopiens podcast
in which we dish out boiling hot takes.
Today we're discussing the Ford Universal EV pickup truck.
Is it actually a truck?
Ford CEO Jim Farley said,
it's not really a pickup truck in the traditional sense.
We agree or don't, Jason?
I don't agree.
Today we have exclusive pictures that
Autopian video manager Griffin Riley took,
and I took a reel of the new Ford EV pickup truck.
Well, it's not even new, out yet.
We got pictures of a prototype.
The first photos in the world, it blew up the internet.
People were all trying to talk to us about these pictures.
Look at this truck.
We spotted this testing in Long Beach,
and the one thing that I took away from it,
there are two things, really.
First, the camouflage is just freaking amazing.
This is not a typical camouflage.
Look, look at this.
There are soccer balls in hearts,
and sailboats and teddy bears.
This is fantastic.
It's a baby blanket is what it looks like.
It is a baby blanket.
And look, they did such a great job trying to hide the shape.
They added, I don't know if it's foam,
they added like strange shapes,
like if you look at some of the other pictures,
yeah, look at the side of the bed.
The side of the bed.
What is that?
Is it foam?
And they put some, it's crazy.
And then they put this weird something
over the front of the car
that makes it look all squared off.
And then what we found is that
if you look closely at the camouflage,
there's a QR code, and if you scan it,
you see even more pictures of a prototype,
which this car is not gonna have a squared off nose
like we see in this picture,
because it's gotta be aerodynamic.
This is an EV.
It's supposed to be under $30,000.
Anyway, the point is super exciting
to be able to see this for the first time.
And the one takeaway that I really took from it,
it is so freaking small.
It is so small.
It's like smaller than a Maverick, it seems.
And I love it.
I freaking love it.
I do too.
I'm a pro small truck.
And we are getting some, we've been reading all the comments.
And you know, the people in Europe are talking
about how it's not that small,
even though for a four-door, it's pretty dang small.
And then there are people who are like,
this is not a real truck, the bed's too small.
And even CEO, Jim Farley, tell me what he said, David.
What do you say?
According to AutoLine, he said it's not really a pickup.
And he said not really a truck specifically, right?
Either not really a pickup or not really a truck.
What do you think about that, Jason?
See, okay, I think, I disagree with Mr. Farley here.
I feel like it is 100% a truck.
And I think we should talk right now
about what actually defines a truck,
because I feel like, and there's tons of people
in the comments saying, no, it's a car pickup.
It's a U, it's not a truck.
I think all that is, that's ridiculous.
It is absolutely a truck.
So let's talk about what a truck is,
because I think size does not a truck make.
I think you can have a tiny truck, even with a tiny bed,
and it still counts as a truck.
So like obvious examples, Piaggio Ape, three-wheeler,
again, not mainstream, but it is used as a truck.
If we define, what are the things a truck does?
And a true workhorse, if you've been around.
A workhorse, truly a workhorse.
If you've been to Italy, these things do F-150 jobs
all day long.
They're just loaded with stuff, they're hauling.
A truck is something that does work by moving stuff.
That's it.
Look at that Piaggio Ape.
I mean, the thing is, it's just a tray,
it's just a little tray behind a little cabin.
But that's all it takes, you know?
I mean, really, you just need to be able to, you know,
not have a height restriction and have a suspension
that doesn't immediately, you know, go flat.
Right.
It doesn't have to be that huge.
And especially like.
I mean, in some ways, this is the minimal definition
of truck, I think.
And let's go, Griffin, go to that.
There's a K truck with like a bunch of logs in the bed there.
That one.
That's a truck.
It's tiny.
Size isn't a matter.
What this thing, it does truck jobs.
You haul things in it.
And I think another key thing about a truck
and why bed size is less important than what the bed is.
An open bed that's made of metal that you fundamentally
can throw anything in and not care defines a truck.
So like, yeah, because, yeah, like because, you know,
when I think about like, I have a pickup truck here,
but it's a Jeep Command Chee.
It's about the size of what we think this EV is going to be
lengthwise, heightwise.
It's the perfect size.
And I, you know, obviously mine's a long bit.
But the reason why I like it over having, say, a big SUV,
it's not the same thing.
It's, it's, you can throw, there are really two things.
The one thing that you said, you don't have to care that much.
You could throw some dirty, sloppy thing in the back,
an engine block or whatever.
And also you can load it from the sides, which is a huge deal.
Like, have you ever tried to load a freaking sofa into an SUV?
It's a nightmare.
It's terrible because you're going through like a little orifice.
A truck, you just plop it in whichever way.
You can put gravel in a truck.
You can put all kinds of like messy things that you like.
The beauty of a truck is whatever happens in that bed
stays in the bed and that's that's just for between you and the Lord.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's that's a key definition of what a truck is.
That's why even if the bed is small, if you can dump whatever in there
and there's no height, because I think that's a good point, David,
like you can just stack stuff up there.
And if you tie it down or whatever, it's fine.
That defines a truck and Griffin, like go to the.
There's a weird Citroen there.
So in Chile, they made this thing called a Citroenetta.
They needed a local version of the two CV.
So but for their needs, a lot of farming, whatever,
they turned it into a really tiny bed pickup truck.
But the thing is, even though the bed was like under five feet, probably,
it was still usable because of the reasons you just said you could throw
anything in there, you can pile it up, you could load it from any end.
That's all you really need for trucks.
So when Jim Farley says this isn't a truck, I can't agree with that.
Well, I think he's probably saying that to get ahead of, you know,
people who might criticize what they think is a typical truck.
OK, well, yeah, it's another good example is this this Dacia truck here.
Like that's like that's got a really short bed.
But by the way, yeah, you mentioned how they modified the Citroen.
They're not doing this for no reason.
If they're getting no utility out of it, they're not doing it.
You know what I mean?
Like there's obviously value in even having a small truck bed, just
because you can't fit your four by eight or whatever in it doesn't mean anything.
And I'll also note this.
It's one thing to have, let's just say, a four foot bed.
Let's just say you put something that's six or seven feet in a four and a half
foot bed, it can hang out of the tailgate.
Exactly. Leave the tailgate down.
It can be tall.
Now, you could you could keep your hatchback open on your SUV,
but that's not really going to work at a certain point.
And the arrow, the aerodynamics of that are going to become complex.
And you're still going to tear up your carpet.
You're going to tear up the weather stripping around things.
We've all done this.
I put a lawn mower in the back of the pow.
It's not the ideal way to do it.
You can do things like that, but a truck, you don't have to think about it.
Like you could like I throw a canoe in the back of my truck as opposed to like
strapping it to the roof of a car.
One is just easy and the other is an ass pain.
OK, let's try to define what a truck is then.
OK, anything without anything with an area that does not have a height
restriction, essentially a bed of any size.
And he doesn't have to.
Does it have to have a tailgate?
I mean, you can.
Well, how do we can like a floor?
You can have a total flatbed truck.
They're just less convenient because it's nice to have some amount of sides.
What about a pickup truck?
Would you call that a pickup truck, a flatbed or a flatbed?
No, I think the essence of a pickup truck is it has to have at least two sides.
Tailgate would be ideal.
But I think you can have a pickup without a tailgate.
And let's not it is a slightly different category.
We should not understate the importance of a tailgate.
OK, how are you going to tell me anybody that if I drive my little
EV Ford truck to the junkyard and I and I put an entire Ford 302 V8 engine,
which is not more than a couple feet, right?
I put a whole engine in the bed.
Then I go ahead to the ice cream shop, grab an ice cream, sit on my tailgate,
eat ice cream in front of my engine.
You're going to tell me that somehow not a truck.
That's a truck.
That is a hundred percent a truck.
I don't care how tiny it is.
I don't care what it runs on.
Yes, that's a truck.
So yeah, and I don't understand there's a lot of weird.
This is weird gatekeeping with trucks that I don't fully understand.
Like this weird urge to define like what people say is a truck and is it like
towing gets brought up a lot.
Do you think it does a truck have to be able to tow?
I don't think so either necessarily.
I mean, it's nice.
It's nice if it can, but also I've towed with a small truck.
Griffin, do we have the picture of my old Asuzu truck towing the giant space invader
because I've towed on that little Asuzu truck like you don't have to tow.
He doesn't have to be able to tow a whole RV or a boat.
I look and I want to be clear.
I think Farley was basically saying like it's not a pickup truck in the traditional sense.
People are not going to, you know, they're not.
It makes sense if you're the CEO of Ford to make sure that people are not expecting
what they typically see as a pickup truck.
They're not expecting a Ford lightning replacement, except for example.
So I guess he was expecting though.
Like what is he?
What is he covering there?
Like what is he not looking to think Ford is a history of making trucks.
And when people think truck, they think F 150.
I think that's what or Ranger or something.
This is not this is very different.
It's a different formula.
It's more like a Maverick and in fact, I think he ever said a Maverick isn't a truck.
I mean, Farley is a smart guy.
No, no, he has not.
And in fact, if you go to Ford.com, they say it's a truck.
OK, but I don't think Ford wants us to think of this vehicle as a Maverick even
because I think it's even smaller.
I think it's it's different.
There's not it's kind of just a different.
It's honestly, it's kind of like a you like in, you know, in Australia.
How do you feel about you?
Are they trucks?
Absolutely, they get used for all sorts of utilitarian reasons.
Yeah, you know, Camino truck, Range Arrow truck.
The thing is the thing about this is I think it's actually brilliant.
OK, think about what the Ford Maverick was for Ford.
It was basically like, look, we can't sell sedans.
No one's buying our small sedan.
So we're just going to make like a little tiny truck and maybe that'll work.
And yeah, it works.
That's what Americans want.
OK, no, not enough people are going to buy a Ford EV sedan.
It's not going to happen.
So let's just take our typical approach, use what we're good at
and just make our EV a little pickup truck.
It gives you the little the cool factor.
It gives you that little something to where you're not just buying it
because of range, because you're saving money, whatever.
It gives you that bit of soul just having that form factor.
It's just cool and that that matters.
I agree, although it's confused.
I don't know I can articulate why, like why is an open bed
have that much more cashier than like an enclosed trunk?
But it does, doesn't it?
It's cool.
Yeah, I agree.
I just don't I don't know if I fully understand it, but I I don't disagree.
Here's a question, though.
Single cab pickups are rare now.
They used to be the default.
You had a truck.
It was single cab and the fact that I think the reason why they're gone
is because a truck is no longer a specialized vehicle anymore.
It's it's much more common for it to be your only vehicle, which means
it has to fill the role that a sedan once did, which means it needs a backseat.
So yeah, true.
Is it like there is there's no way they could have made a single
cab version of this thing.
What do you think or could they have?
Well, no, I don't think so.
And I think that's one of my concerns with Slate.
It's Slate is cool, by the way.
I like the concept like anybody who starts as a business co-founder,
you and I are co-founders along with Bo, we obviously have respect
for people who are going to start something new, especially something really challenging.
Slate, I have a ton of respect for.
I don't think that you can expect the average person to buy a two door
vehicle anymore in volume.
And yeah, I think that's yeah.
And that's what if that I always if Slate came if they had a one with
a little four cylinder gas motor that they could sell for the low 20s.
Yeah, I think that was my different thing.
As soon as I saw the Slate years ago, the first thought was this is going
to be a tough sell given it's two door EV.
And if it had a little gas engine and it cost 22 grand, that would be that would
be a game changer, but that's a different topic.
But I, you know, that's also a small truck.
And I think both both Slate and Ford are kind of banking on the same kind of idea.
I think they both fundamentally understand that when people buy an EV,
they know they're going to spend more on that EV than on an equivalent gas car.
Right. Like even at 30 grand, you know, you know, roughly a Maverick doesn't
cost that much more.
And with a Maverick, the average person might say, hey, you know, the Maverick
has more capability in that it can go farther and all that.
So, you know, this is a challenge.
It's like, how do you get people to pay extra just because it's electric?
I mean, is it extra in this case?
So 30 grand, if they can come in at 30 grand for an EV?
It might be the same price, a little bit cheaper, maybe.
Yeah, yeah. So it might be a little cheaper than the Maverick,
but but it's not that much cheaper, right?
And to some people, you know, people might might say, well, I can't even go
on a road trip, you know, there are certain levels of utility that you lose
when you go with a small EV with with a smaller battery.
But here's the thing, I think both companies really understand that the cool
factor is so key in selling products.
I think Tesla, when people buy a Tesla, they're not just buying an electric
car that's efficient and that's practical, going to save them money every every month.
They're buying a Tesla.
It's a luxury car.
It's a cool, advanced vehicle.
Rivian, I think, has done a great job building a brand like that as well.
And I think Ford and Slate, you know, they could have come out with just
a sedan or something boring, you know, and they understood we it needs
to be cool and a small pickup truck is inherently cool for I don't know what reason.
You and I can't even articulate why we just think it is.
So I like I mean, they're not they're not rational things.
They never have been.
You're never going to sell a car based on rational reasons.
That's just not how we buy cars.
And it's great that both these companies get that.
And you know, this may not be the most rational thing to do, you know,
come out with a small pickup.
I mean, this one is in a way, here's one advantage of an electric
pickup over a regular pickup, and that's the front, because one of the things
that a pickup like so I took a Maverick on a road trip last year and I wasn't hauling.
I just used it as a way to get somewhere.
I had luggage.
There's nowhere to put like suitcases and shit or suitcases and stuff
unless you have an enclosed luggage space and you want both an open bed.
So in an EV like this that has a front up front where you can put stuff
like your laptop bag and other awesome.
That's a it's a big advantage.
Like you could get one of those toolboxes and put your bed, but then
you're eating part of your bed.
Like, well, there's a back seat, but but here's the thing, especially
if you live in a, you know, in a big city, you know, you don't really safe.
If you know, if you have a laptop bag, camera bag, a frunk is a freaking fortress, man.
You'd have to tear into that metal.
This is the beauty of a frunk and traditional trunk sons and Dan's are gone.
So this is, you know, I love this idea.
And I actually, Griffin, can you pull that picture up of the prototype again?
You know, when I look at it, I could see myself driving this every day
around the city like LA, frunk for all my stuff, put stuff in the very back
when I'm picking up, picking up something.
If it's longer, I drop the tailgate or whatever.
Kid can be in the back.
It looks like there's tons of room in the very back.
Do I need it?
I mean, honestly, it's more rational.
It's better than a sedan.
Like if we're talking pure rationality, because you have a frunk and four doors
and an open bed, it, everything a sedan would do with the added benefit
of all the truck benefits of you can put any kind of crap in the back.
Like I think it's actually weirdly more rational.
Like as far as just like a general do whatever you need vehicle, this layout
might be, might be the one, like it's pretty damn clever.
So, okay, let's we're going to circle back to kind of our main topic, which was,
is this a truck?
We have established this is a truck is a truck.
And, you know, any other thoughts that you have on this truck?
I mean, for me, it's, it's, it's a question of whether, you know, are people
going to be ready to throw down 30 grand for this vehicle?
And I mean, range, we're not going to spend too much time on this topic, but like
part of the reason why it's small is, is that the whole point is Ford wanted
to build an economical, cool vehicle, right?
And if this were a big truck, like Americans tend to love, American loves
like a larger truck, F-150 Ranger.
If this were that size, the battery would have to be huge to get an acceptable range.
And I'm curious in your viewpoint, what does the average person think is an
acceptable range?
I think 200, I think 200 is the minimum where people feel like, okay.
Um, cause that just like I had, I took a ID buzz and a road trip.
It's range is about 200.
Realistically, you're stopping every 175 miles does just by the way life works.
So you're stopping every two hours, which is about the minimum amount of stopping
you can do on a road trip without getting annoyed.
So 200, 200 is plenty, I think for day to day use.
However, you're charging at home.
If you can charge at home, it's totally fine.
If you live in an apartment or you live somewhere where you can't
charge at home, it's a little trickier.
So much of this depends on where you are.
200 miles of range is absolutely fine.
Where you live, even where I live in college town, you go out into the
middle of Wyoming though, probably not.
So I will say, if this thing has a range of like 300 miles at 30 grand, that to
me, which it would, it would be so compelling to me.
You know, yeah, I think if they can hit two, which I feel like is very attainable.
I bet it'll come in over two.
If I had to guess, I bet it'll come in about 250.
I think they're, I think they've stayed at their goal.
What is their goal?
All right, let's see what I think they told me what their goal is.
Ford's target range for its upcoming mid-sized universal EV truck is
approximately 300 miles for the entry level trim.
What?
Okay, this is from Ford itself.
Is this okay?
If this little truck, this cute little truck with tons of apparently tons of
leg room in the, because that rear door looks huge, tons of room in the back, a
bed, not the biggest bed, but a bed, a bed is 30 grand and can go 300 miles.
Bro, that is phenomenal.
I will be freaking so stat, I will be amped about that.
Yeah, it says, look right here.
Ford is a certain threshold is the goal of our strategies to meet the
expectations of some customers of around 300 miles of range.
Wow.
Instead of using larger, more expensive batteries, we're focusing on
extreme vehicle efficiency through aerodynamics, weight reduction, and energy management.
So hold on, this does also mean though, does that mean, so if it's 300 miles, if
you've got a lot of crap in your bed, especially unerodynamic crap, you can
expect your range to plummet though, I would imagine.
Yeah, that's physics.
You're not going to.
Yeah, but the bed is behind it.
Yeah, most stuff comes up over the roof.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
It'll hurt it.
Yeah, I want to note here, I'm on the Ford's website.
When you say midsize pickup, do you mean Maverick or Ranger?
With an increased emphasis on aero, does this mean the new truck may
introduce a new design image?
And here's what Ford emphasizes.
The truck will be comparable in footprint to a Maverick, but because
it's clean sheet and EV design, the only similarity to Maverick is the size comparison.
They don't want us comparing this to the Maverick.
They want us to be saying, and I don't know exactly why that would be.
Maybe it's because it's so different.
Maybe the styling is going to be so different.
Maybe that's it.
It's going to be, and this is where kind of where I want to take this topic next.
Okay.
Very obviously this is off.
They're trying to get 300 miles of range, which is phenomenal out of a truck.
A truck typically, if you look at most American trucks, they're squared off in
the front, right?
This truck isn't going to be that.
If you look, there was another vehicle that was not squared off in the front.
It was, Griffin, I don't know if you could pull this up, but the second generation Honda
Ridgeline, the very first one before the facelift, it had a really soft face.
And I think that really turned off a number of people.
How do you design this truck, Jason?
It's kind of like a Honda pilot in the front.
It just doesn't really work.
The headlights are a little off.
How do you do this and make it compelling, Jason?
I'm going to bring up an example.
Griffin, bring up, there's a red F100.
Red Ford F100.
What this idea that trucks need to be boxy and square is sort of recent because
trucks were very trucky and there was a time when they're styling just because
of the general look of things at the time was not some square at all.
They were really quite round, but really early trucks were very round.
Like this, like they were really round.
They had round in the front.
Yes, wait, there it is.
Look at this guy.
This is a rat.
There's a little, this is no, no.
That's an upright front end.
Look at that upright face.
That is up, right?
Yes, but everything is curved.
Yes, but we're talking arrow and what matters is frontal shape and area.
And I don't think it has to.
I'm saying I, I think you could, you can design a front end that is a
streamlined front end in a truck and it'll and it still could look truck like.
It won't maybe look like the traditional truck, but there's no reason why you can't do it.
Griffin, there's a couple other images in here.
There's a, well, there's all, you know, there's like all the flat face ones.
Let me see.
I'm trying to think of another one that would be, it hasn't been done often.
It's true.
No, it's a huge challenge.
I'm not saying a tempo boy is the best examples.
Go to the next, go to that fiat again.
The fiat is pretty, is pretty slopey and it's not a traditional truck look,
but it's not a bad.
I cannot wait, Jason, I'm going to go to this.
If I'm lucky enough to go to this Ford event, I'm going to speak with their
designers and they're going to say the inspiration for this truck was the
tempo boy, the tempo boy.
This is what we, on all their mood boards is going to be the tempo boy.
This is, this is what we want it to feel like.
This is what Americans want.
No, but I think it is possible.
I think the past like six decades that they've mostly been square, but I think
you can do it.
The trick is you can't be trying, you have to give it up to some degree.
You can't be trying to be like what the old drug was.
It just has to look cool on its own.
And I think it's possible.
How do we do this?
Cause even the Maverick has an upright front face.
Griffith, do you mind pulling up in one of the, in the QR code article?
Yeah, we had a, I included a picture from Ford's aerodynamic testing.
They, I followed the QR code on the camouflage and, and so, so Ford was showing
off on his website.
Here's the aerodynamic, you can see the streamlines going over the front and
very clearly the nose of this truck, it is, it's a gradual taper.
It's not, there's not a tall, you know what I mean?
There's not like a ledge at the front, like most cars.
So you see that right there?
See the front end?
It's, it's obviously rounded way up at the, at the nose.
And for a truck, have we, maybe, maybe they make it.
Okay.
In the 80s, what was it?
It was the, remember the, the 80s Dodge, they were, they made a pickup.
What was it called?
A crap, I'm blanking in the name.
It had the, it had a sloping front face.
It was based on their, the, the channel, like, remember the 80s challenger?
Shit, hold on, hold on, let me see.
What was it?
Was the, yeah, the rampage, right?
The Dodge rampage, rampage, the rampage, the rampage.
Yes.
Yeah.
The rampage, because the rampage had, look at the, yeah, the rampage is, you know,
it's not modern by modern aerodynamic standards, but a Dodge rampage was a
truck with a sloping face and a low hood.
And it was cool.
Like, I'm not saying you're right.
I, so here's what I think.
And I think what you said earlier is key.
It has to be cool, independent, like independently of whether it's a truck.
Like it's, can you make a cool sloping front face on an automobile?
The answer is obviously yes.
We've seen it a lot of times.
Is there anything about the truck shape that can't work with such a nose?
I also want to pull up the Chevy SSR if you could, because the SSR, we just kind
of based on, yeah, it was based on like that F 100 era, that round thing.
But yeah, the SSR is a good example too.
Because I wonder if Ford is actually going to try to lean into a sports truck.
So a vehicle, if you look at this, right?
It's got, it's a retro design, but you could de retro it and it would still kind of work.
So I think, I do think that a tapered nose lends itself to more of a sports
truck vibe.
Yeah.
Which honestly, if Ford, if Ford did that, maybe that's the, maybe that's what
they're going to do.
They're going to, they're going to have a sport, sporty nose.
They're going to maybe have some fender flares in the back potentially.
Maybe not.
That's an arrow thing.
But this could look like a four door sporty thing that happens to have a bed.
It might be unlike anything we've ever seen.
That's exciting.
Right.
Because have we ever seen a four door sports truck, really?
Like a sports sedanny truck.
We've not really seen that.
Bring up that, the red Dasha, Griffin, because I think that actually is kind of
close in a weird way, the red, the red older one, because I think you're right.
I don't know if we've ever seen like that approach in a double cab truck, but it
could be cool.
Like this, this is actually, okay.
This is not super sporty and it's all a little upright, but in proportion, something
with like that kind of, like it's got a sloping nose, you know, the, the greenhouse
will be different, but I think, I think you're right.
It could be, it'll be cool.
Yeah.
And I think, I think ultimately all this truck has to do, especially if it hits
a 300 mile range target, which I think for 30 grand, here's the thing.
If it's 30 grand and it's 300 miles of range or even close to it, and it's cool.
The last part's key because you could buy a Tesla for not a ton of money more.
And people think Tesla as a brand is, you know, historically it's a luxury brand.
It's cool brand, something I don't know anymore.
But I mean, yeah, it's pretty cool right now, but be honest, yeah.
But you could get an Ioniq five as well, you know what I mean?
But this has to be cool.
But how they get it cool, there's a myriad of ways that they can make it cool.
Yeah.
But starting with the pickup, I think naturally gives them a cool leg up.
It being a four door gives them a leg up over slate.
I think, yeah, it does.
It's size I love.
I'm honestly, I don't know what to expect.
I'm kind of amped.
That's the cool thing about this is we're in a whole new world.
If this were a gas truck, we'd have a pretty good idea what this is going to be.
This is an EV where you've got different, you've got different constraints.
You've got very challenging constraints, you know, where size is now adding costs.
Your size didn't really add cost before, you know, as much.
It was, you just throw a big blow molded gas tank in the back to get more range.
It's fine, it's not a big deal.
Now it's got to be small, but if you want a lot of range and then there's cost,
it's just so challenging.
This could be a totally different shape than what we've what we've really seen before.
And honestly, I'm just glad to see a major OEM give a damn about the low end again,
which it feels like was largely abandoned.
Like it feels like because the margins aren't the same,
everybody's just thought we'll just keep making more expensive cars.
And that's all you've got for a new car.
And that's why average new car sales are close to 50 grand right now,
which is a lot of money and nobody has that much money right now.
So the idea of focusing on the low end and not making it a penalty box is great
and not trying like, I think a lot of the problem with like cars in the low end
before is they've always tried to masquerade as something that they're not.
Like, you know, when they started to make like versus in like gunmetal gray
and try to make them feel like a more premium sedan, no one bought it.
It never worked. This isn't doing that.
It's just, it looks like they're designing something.
I know it just is what it is.
And that's how you make a classless cheap car.
And I'm excited to see it.
Yeah. And you know what?
I like the way that Ford is communicating about this truck.
They're straight up saying, listen, we're trying to do this in a way
that's as economical as possible.
When was the last time an automaker told you, listen,
we're trying to build something real cheap?
Like we're we're doing what you got to do to keep it real cheap.
Like, yeah, they're good, they're making compromises.
And they're willing to tell us, hey, look, we're making compromises,
smart compromises so that we're able to get you an interesting vehicle
with lots of range for under 30 grand.
Like that's cool.
I'm glad to see that.
And you're an expert on world car.
What are you world car people's cars?
Right? You're people.
You're literally an expert on people's cars.
Could this be a true people's car?
Well, that's what's exciting about it.
And the key it's the key elements it has is it's not trying like it's
being honest, fundamentally, it's a cheap car.
They've come out and said we were building to a price point.
We're making compromises.
We're cutting corners and it's not trying to fit into some other idea
of what a car should be with all the successful people's cars have started
that way, Beetle, Dushavu, Mini, all of them were like, what's just
the best way to solve this problem?
And that's it.
And that's why they became classless.
And anything that's trying to put it.
It's funny that constraints create these classics.
It does constraints.
That's how you're creative.
If you're given an entire box of crayons and said make any picture,
it'll take you forever to figure out what to draw.
If you're given three crayons, those colors are going to suggest
what you're going to do.
The constraints make you creative.
And if you're just playing in those constraints and your only goal is to
solve a rational problem, cheap, does a job, whatever, you're going to have
something that has the potential to be truly classless.
Like you're not because it's not pretending to be something it's not.
And that's, that's the key.
And that feels like that's the path they're on.
They can go wrong, of course.
There's all kinds of ways to screw it up.
But right now I'm hopeful right now this could be a people's car.
And yeah, in 2026, a people's car is a 30 grand EV.
But, you know, you just probably do the math and I bet it'll, you know, like
that's probably not that different than what, you know, any of the early, you
know, like an early, you know, Beatles price in, you know, like, like based
on modern standards, maybe that's what, you know, what the cheap car would be now.
So I'm hopeful, like there's a people, a new people's car is exactly what I
feel like we need right now.
And it's been ignored for well over a decade and it's, it's time.
Well, what, what, okay, I will just, before we end this podcast, it's just
where a crossover, would it still have potential to be a people's car?
Or does that, does it blend in too much with the math?
I think, yeah, I think the thing, the problem with the crossover, like part
of what it takes to be a real people's car is you have to kind of look at this
problem with fresh eyes.
Like you've got us, like, you know, every one of them has like looked at the
problem of cheap cars, like Beatles, like, well, let's get rid of the drive
turret, like the, you know, the drive shaft and everything, put everything in
the back, whatever.
Yeah, no, yeah, exactly.
Let's make it air cold, get rid of, you know, they were taking some risks.
So if we just did another crossover, it'd be, it'd feel like they're just
making a cheaper version of what's already out there.
This feels like more clean sheet, like it has more potential for a real
people's car, because they're looking at something.
What's the maximum amount of how can this do as much as possible?
Can it do everything?
And if you give it a bed and a frunk and four doors, you got something pretty
close to something that can do anything and a crossover can't.
So I think, yeah, I think maybe this is, that's, that's a key part of it.
All right.
Carbage time.
You know what?
Not that much, not that much garbage during today's garbage.
A lot of good discussion about a really exciting truck that is a truck.
It is a truck.
I think, I think I understand where Jim Farley is coming from, set
in expectations, but this is a truck.
And we're, whenever we get our hands on one, we are going to prove that it's a
truck.
We're going to be putting all sorts of heavy engines and all sorts of stuff back
there.
Dirty crap in the back.
Yeah, they're going to, they're going to hate us at the fleet company.
It's going to be great.
That's right.
All right.
This has been the Autopien's Carbage Time produced by our talented Griffin
Riley.
Thank you to the automakers for the photos we used, artless for the audio
slash music.
More car takes coming up.
I just drove the Rivian R2.
I got things to say.
Jason has some stuff he wants to say about Bugatti Veyron.
Wrong things about the Veyron.
David Cummins, no idea.
Anyway, coming in hot.
Thanks for joining us.
About this episode
Hosts wrestle with whether Ford’s tiny EV “pickup” prototype is a real truck, arguing that truck utility—moving/hauling in an open bed—matters more than size. They also dig into the pitch behind a rumored ~$30k EV pickup: buyers pay for “cool factor,” and range targets around 200 miles minimum, with Ford aiming for about 300 miles via efficiency (aerodynamics, weight reduction, energy management) rather than bigger batteries. They expect to “prove” it’s a truck when they get one.
After David Tracy and Griffin Riley saw Ford's new EV pickup truck testing down in Long Beach, we had a lot of people weigh in with their thoughts about what is and isn't a real pickup truck, which brings us HERE! Listen in now!
Hosts: David Tracy, Jason Torchinsky
Producer: Griffin Riley
Music: Artlist
Read more of our thoughts at our website: https://www.theautopian.com/ And follow us on all your favorite social media pages!
