Funding The World's Greatest Supercars & The Secrets Rich Collectors Never Share - Andy King
Cars & Money
Funding The World's Greatest Supercars & The Secrets Rich Collectors Never Share - Andy King
Cars & Money · Jul 8, 2026
Annotations will appear as you listen
0:00
116:14
Term
finance deal
A finance deal is the agreement that lets someone pay for a car over time. The host is using it to talk about how the financing itself can reflect who the buyer is.
Car
Porsche 918 Spyder
The Porsche 918 Spyder is a supercar that uses both electricity and gasoline to drive. It’s built for very fast performance, not everyday commuting. The podcast brings it up because it’s a notable, rare car someone had access to or saw.
Car
Toyota A90
The Toyota Supra is a sports car made for fast driving and fun. People talk about it a lot because it’s a well-known performance model. In the podcast, it’s mentioned in a money/bonus context, likely because someone is thinking about buying or upgrading.
Car
Ferrari 360
The Ferrari 360 is a Ferrari supercar with the engine in the middle of the car. It’s famous for being a real Ferrari you can drive and enjoy, not just something rare and untouchable.
Car
Nissan Micra
A Nissan Micra is a small car that’s made for everyday city driving. Here, the host says they learned and passed their driving test using a Micra before moving on to more expensive cars.
Term
driving instructor
A driving instructor is a person you pay to teach you how to drive. They may teach you using their own car or your car, and the cost can change depending on which one is used.
Car
Pagani Utopia
The Pagani Utopia is one of Pagani’s top supercars. In this story, it’s used to show how many rare Pagani cars they managed to arrange financing for at once.
Place
Barkley Hotel
They say they rented an office at a hotel in London. It’s just background on where the deals were being handled.
Term
HPI checked
An “HPI check” is a vehicle history/finance lookup. It can tell you things like whether the car is still being paid off through a loan, so you know what you’re dealing with.
Car
McLaren F1
The McLaren F1 is one of the most famous supercars ever made by McLaren. It’s so valuable that people often buy it using financing instead of paying all at once.
Term
joint venture
A joint venture is a business arrangement where two parties team up to pursue a specific project or investment, sharing responsibilities and risk. In the context of the conversation, it’s being used to describe how the parties structured their collaboration.
Term
refinancing
Refinancing means you swap your current car loan for a new loan. The goal is often to get a better interest rate or a payment plan that costs less over time.
Car
Ferrari F40
The Ferrari F40 is one of Ferrari’s most iconic supercars. It’s known for being very raw and fast, with a turbocharged V8 and a lightweight, driver-focused design.
Car
Ferrari Enzo
The Ferrari Enzo is Ferrari’s famous high-end supercar from the early 2000s. It’s known for a powerful V12 engine and an F1-inspired approach to making it fast and special.
Car
Ferrari SP2
The Ferrari SP2 is a special, limited Ferrari supercar. It’s made to be rare and exciting, not a normal everyday model. The podcast mentions it as a standout car that impressed the speaker.
Car
512 TR
The Ferrari 512 TR is a famous older Ferrari supercar. “TR” is the specific updated version, and it’s the kind of car that can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars—especially when collectors are comparing it to even more expensive cars.
Term
eight digits
“Eight digits” means the price is in the tens of millions. The speaker is saying some collectors’ cars are worth way more than the Ferrari 512 TR.
Concept
financed their cars rather than buying them cash
Instead of paying for the car all at once, collectors sometimes borrow the money and pay it back over time. That way they can get the car sooner without tying up all their cash.
Company
Apollo Capital
Apollo Capital is a company that helps people get financing for expensive cars. They work with banks/lenders and sellers to help arrange the loan for buying the car.
Term
high value vehicles
“High value vehicles” just means very expensive cars. Because they cost so much, getting a loan for them often needs more specialized approval than a normal car loan.
Car
Proton Preve
The Proton Preve is a compact car model made by Proton. In the podcast, it’s mentioned because it’s connected to events and partnerships. The discussion is more about where the car/brand shows up than about how it drives.
Term
investment piece
An “investment piece” is something people buy hoping it will be worth more later. In this conversation, the host is saying Ferraris are often treated that way.
Term
Limson number cars
The host is talking about cars that were made in small numbers. When fewer exist, collectors usually want them more, and prices can rise.
Term
trade cost
In collector-car dealing, a “trade cost” is the effective price impact of swapping one car for another. It’s the difference between what the dealer offers for your car and what they charge for the one you want, including the margin they make on the deal.
Car
Pistas Spiders
“Pistas Spiders” means the open-top Ferrari 488 Pista Spider. Since it’s a rarer version than the coupe, collectors often pay a premium for it.
Car
488 Pista
The Ferrari 488 Pista is a high-performance Ferrari supercar with a powerful mid-mounted engine. Here, they’re talking about buying one and then selling it for more not long after.
Term
tailor-made
“Tailor-made” means the car was built to the buyer’s exact preferences. Instead of ordering a standard version, you choose special options and the factory makes it that way.
Term
bespoke options
Bespoke options are special add-ons or choices you pick when ordering a new car. They help make the car feel unique, because it’s built with your selected details.
Concept
tailored to your spec
“Tailored to your spec” means the car was set up exactly how you asked for it. Because the options are so specific, it can be rarer than a typical car.
Term
auto-trader
Auto Trader is a website where people list cars for sale. When someone quotes a price from a listing, it might not reflect what the car actually sells for.
Term
fake advert
A “fake advert” is a car listing that isn’t really a genuine car-for-sale situation. So the price shown might not be what the car would actually sell for.
Car
Pista Spider
The Ferrari Pista Spider is a high-end Ferrari supercar with the roof removed (a convertible). It’s meant to feel more exciting and dramatic to drive, while still being very fast.
Concept
investment cars
An “investment car” is a car someone buys mainly to hold value or make money later. The host is saying the serious buyers understand the market, while others can get burned.
Term
limited number Ferraris
They’re talking about Ferraris that are made in small numbers. When something is rare, it often costs more and can attract buyers who want to hold value.
Term
skinny deposit
A “skinny deposit” means paying a small amount upfront. That usually makes the rest of the purchase more expensive and riskier if things don’t go as planned.
Car
Pista
Ferrari Pista is a special, faster Ferrari model. The host is warning that people who don’t really know cars may buy it hoping to make money quickly.
Term
limited production
It means the car is made in a small number, not mass-produced. Because fewer exist, people often treat them as more exclusive and collectible.
Car
488 Spider
The 488 Spider is a Ferrari supercar with a roof that can open and close. Here it’s mentioned because it’s the kind of car collectors buy and trade.
Car
Rolls-Royce Phantom
The Rolls-Royce Phantom is a very luxurious car made for comfort and prestige. It’s designed to feel smooth and quiet when you drive. The podcast mentions it because someone bought one and remembers it as a specific color.
Term
sixth series two
Rolls-Royce uses “series” to describe different big update versions of the same model. “Series Two” means it’s not the exact same car as the earlier version—there are changes in details and equipment.
Term
limited number cars
This means cars that were made in small numbers. When fewer exist, more people want them, and that can make prices rise.
Term
inflation
Inflation means prices in general go up over time. The host is saying that could be part of why expensive cars cost more later than they did when they were bought.
Car
458 Spider
The Ferrari 458 Spider is a Ferrari supercar with a convertible roof. It’s famous for its strong V8 engine and for feeling very fast and exciting to drive, especially with the top down.
Car
BMW M5
The BMW M5 is a fast, performance-focused version of the BMW 5 Series. People like it because it’s powerful but still practical enough to live with.
Term
monthly payment
A monthly payment is what you pay each month to finance a car. They’re saying their ads were built around that monthly number.
Car
Range Rover Sport
The Range Rover Sport is a Land Rover SUV that’s meant to feel more athletic than a typical family SUV. Here, the speaker mentions it as one of the cars they owned.
Brand
overfinch kit
Overfinch is a company that customizes Land Rovers. An “Overfinch kit” usually means the car was upgraded with their styling and parts, often to make it look more distinctive.
Term
numerical limit
They’re talking about a personal budget number they wouldn’t go over when buying cars. It’s basically a spending limit that shaped what they drove.
Car
seven Ferraris
They’re saying they bought seven Ferraris very quickly. Ferraris are expensive Italian supercars, and collectors sometimes buy them in big bursts when the deal and the market feel right.
Term
GTS
GTS is a Ferrari name for a roof style that’s more open than a normal coupe. It’s the “in-between” option compared with a fixed-roof coupe and a full convertible.
Term
Berlinetto
Berlinetta is an Italian term for a coupe—basically a fixed-roof version of the car. Here it’s just one of the different body styles they bought.
Car
430 manual
They’re also talking about a Ferrari 430 with a manual gearbox. The 430 is another famous mid-engine Ferrari, and the manual version is the more old-school, hands-on way to drive it.
Car
458
They mention a Ferrari 458. It’s a very famous mid-engine Ferrari, and people love it for the way it drives and the V8 sound.
Term
maintenance
Here, “maintenance” means the regular work and repairs needed to keep a car in good shape. With supercars, that upkeep can cost more and require specialists.
Car
Bugatti Veyron
The Bugatti Veyron is one of the most famous super/hypercars ever made. It’s known not just for speed, but also for being extremely expensive to keep running—so maintenance costs can be huge.
Concept
undervalued
When someone says a car is “undervalued,” they mean it’s priced lower than it should be compared to how much people want it later. Investors try to buy before the price rises.
Concept
timing
“Timing” here means buying the car at the right moment. If you buy before other people start wanting it more, the value can increase later.
Car
SVJ
“SVJ” is Lamborghini’s high-performance Aventador. It’s the more extreme, track-ready version, with special aero and tuning meant to keep it stable at speed.
Car
GT3 RS
“GT3 RS” is Porsche’s track-special 911. It’s designed to be lighter and more aggressive so it handles and grips better on a circuit than a normal 911.
Company
furlongers
Furlongers is the shop the owner uses to service the Bugatti. With cars this expensive, owners often rely on specialists who know that brand well.
Term
Veyrons
The Bugatti Veyron is one of the most famous hypercars ever made. They’re mentioning it to explain what similar cars cost and why the market price stays high.
Concept
mileage
Mileage means how far the car has been driven. More miles usually makes the car worth less and can change how people price it.
Concept
ownership experience
“Ownership experience” means what it’s like to have the car as part of your life. Here, they’re saying it can help you meet people and get into special events.
Term
list price
List price is the “sticker” price shown on the car. It’s usually not the final price you end up paying after deals and options.
Term
electric cars
Electric cars run on electricity from a battery instead of gasoline. The speaker is saying they can lose value quickly, which can make financing them a bad deal.
Term
take-hand
“Take-hand” here means a used car. The speaker is saying used cars can drop in value fast, so financing them can be risky.
Term
fetching overs
“Fetching overs” means the car is selling for more than the normal advertised price. It usually happens when the car is hard to get and many people want it.
Term
paid 10K over list
“Over list” means you paid more than the sticker price the car was advertised at. This can happen when lots of people want the car and there aren’t enough available.
Car
Rolls-Royce Spectre
The Rolls-Royce Spectre is a Rolls-Royce that runs on electricity. It’s meant to feel like a normal, high-end Rolls-Royce to drive every day, just without a gas engine.
Term
electric vehicle
An electric vehicle is a car that runs on electricity from a battery. Instead of using gas, it uses electric motors to move the car.
Term
tax piece
They’re talking about tax rules that can make a new car cheaper. At first, there was a tax benefit that let people reduce the cost a lot, but that benefit later changed.
Term
electric piece
They mean the car is electric—powered by a battery and electric motors. The “electric” part is what’s affecting how people feel about it and what it costs.
Car
Porsche Taycan Turbo S
The Porsche Taycan Turbo S is Porsche’s very high-performance electric car. It’s used here as an example of an electric car that can be almost as quick as a hypercar.
Concept
sweet spot
A “sweet spot” means the best zone where people want the cars most. In this conversation, it’s the group of supercars they think are most likely to hold or grow in value.
Car
Ferrari F8
The Ferrari F8 is a Ferrari supercar with a mid-mounted engine and a very sporty character. The hosts mention it as part of the group of cars they pay attention to for value.
Car
McLaren 765
The McLaren 765 is one of McLaren’s top supercars, built for very high performance. The hosts list it among the cars they think are especially interesting for collectors.
Concept
sleepers
A “sleeper” car is one that most people overlook. Because it’s not trendy, it can cost less than it “should,” and then prices can rise when more collectors notice it.
Concept
unloved cars
“Unloved cars” are cars that people didn’t really want for a long time. If the market later decides they’re cool or important, their prices can jump.
Car
SLR
“SLR” here means the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren, a rare, high-end supercar. They’re saying it used to be overlooked, but now it’s worth a lot more than it used to be.
Term
coupe
A “coupe” is a car with a roof and usually two doors. They’re just confirming which body style the SLR is.
Place
Silverstone
Silverstone is a famous race track in the UK. Car events like supercar parades often happen there because it’s designed for fast driving and big events.
Term
hypercar parade
A “hypercar parade” is a group track session where owners drive their exotic cars together in a controlled, parade-like format rather than a competitive race. It’s typically organized to let cars circulate on track while keeping speeds and spacing manageable.
Term
cut me up
“Cut me up” means someone moved in front of them in a way that felt unsafe or abrupt. It’s basically an aggressive, risky pass or lane change.
Car
Porsche 944
The Porsche 944 is a classic Porsche from the 1980s/early 1990s. It’s known for being a bit different from the more famous 911s. Here, the host mentions it as another Porsche people don’t always like at first glance.
Term
996.2
“996.2” is a nickname for the updated version of the Porsche 911 from the 996 generation. It helps collectors tell the later cars apart from the earlier ones. It’s basically “the facelifted 996.”
Term
manual car
“Manual car” means it has a stick shift. Some collectors prefer stick-shift versions because they’re less common and more fun for driving. In this case, it’s part of what makes the car special.
Term
Widowmaker
“Widowmaker” is a nickname for a very dangerous-to-misdrive supercar. The idea is that if you push it too hard, it can lose traction suddenly. It’s basically a warning label in nickname form.
Car
Lamborghini Diablos
The Lamborghini Diablo is a classic Lamborghini supercar from the 1990s. Here, the host is saying it’s been overlooked and is now being treated like a serious collectible.
Car
Lamborghini Countache
The Lamborghini Countach is one of the most famous classic Lamborghinis ever made. In this discussion, they’re saying cars like it are becoming more valuable as collectors start paying attention.
Term
warning lights
“Warning lights” are dashboard indicators that alert the driver to potential faults or system issues. The host’s point is that the Aventador’s dashboard can show many alerts, and they claim the car can be fine even if the lights appear.
Term
sensors
Sensors are the car’s electronic “checkers” that monitor things. The more sensors a car has, the more likely it is to detect something and show a warning light.
Term
engine lights
“Engine lights” are the warning lights on the dashboard. If they come on and the car says not to drive, it usually means the car detected a problem and you should take it seriously.
Car
Lamborghini Huracan
The Lamborghini Huracán is a supercar made by Lamborghini. It’s designed to be fast and exciting, but still practical enough to live with. The podcast mentions it because someone has owned one and is comparing it to another Lamborghini model.
Concept
financing their car
This means they borrow money to buy the car and then pay it back over time. The idea is to keep more cash available while still getting to own the car.
Term
Capristo exhaust
Capristo exhaust means a performance exhaust system from the brand Capristo. People upgrade exhausts like this mainly for a better sound and sometimes for improved driving feel.
Car
BMW M3
The BMW M3 is BMW’s high-performance version of the 3 Series. The host is saying that today’s M3 is so quick that it can feel as fast as older supercars from the 1990s.
Car
Porsche 993 Turbo
This is a Porsche 911 Turbo from the 993 generation (mid-to-late 1990s). It’s famous because it’s a fast, high-performance 911 that helped define what “supercar speed” felt like back then.
Term
fastest production car
It means the quickest car that regular people can actually buy, not a custom race car. Usually the claim is based on a measurable test like top speed.
Concept
noughties and nineties
This means the 1990s and 2000s. The speaker is saying collectors are going back to cars from that time period—cars they used to want or have on display.
LIVE
We probably deal with the top 3% of earners in the UK.
What's the most amount of cars a client has financed with you?
20 million.
Andy King, CEO of Apollo Capital, who
offer luxury and supercar finance, the greatest
and most expensive cars in the world.
I know the value of cars because I'm selling them.
And he knows the value of cars because he's funding them.
Which finance deal that you've done tells the greatest story.
We did five Pagani's in the month.
Three Hawares, a Utopia, and a Zonda.
The turbos, the washes, the air intakes, it's theater.
Cars are an emotional purchase.
No one needs a Veyron or a Senna.
Why are you kind of do?
Well.
What pisses you off the most in the car world?
Probably dishonesty.
We had a client who checked the file at bank statements
who've been altered.
What?
What car that's so understated screams that someone actually
is full on rich?
I'd say something like a arguably greatest car ever made.
What are the biggest financial mistakes
people make buying cars?
Do the richest people you know buy or finance most of their cars?
Most of the richest people I know finance cars.
Really?
Absolutely.
It's all about investment of money, investment of your capital.
So yeah, we finance cars for, I mean, one of our clients,
I think he's a top, or in the top 10 income earners in the UK.
And we finance several cars for him.
So it's all about the opportunity cost of the money.
So if we're lending, let's say, I don't know,
a million pounds on a 918 Spider, which was actually
what we did for that chat.
You look at that versus he's actually got hedge fund.
We're charging him x% for his loan with us versus he makes
15% in his hedge fund.
So the opportunity cost.
He's earning money.
He's earning money by financing his car.
He's earning 10%.
Yeah.
Right.
Instead of using his own funds.
Yeah.
So he sees it as a cost of capital to put it into a car,
rather finance the car and get a better return on the capital.
That's exactly it.
Now, obviously, if you've got no use for the capital,
or then naturally, you're going to buy the car
and you're going to own it outright if that's what you want to buy.
But if you have got use for it, whether it's pumping it
into your own business, like, say, hedge funds, investments,
property companies, we have a lot of clients now that get
involved in the bridging business where they'll put x%
into a bridging deal.
That might be built up of a number of investors.
And they'll get a 15% to 20% return on that investment.
So I'm sure clients have got loads of options
to use that capital.
But that's one of the major reasons
that Heinewerth individuals and millionaires
finance their cars.
Right.
So I'll come back to the car finance question in the moment.
Who's this top 10 richest UK guy?
Obviously, I can't say his name.
Of course you could.
I can't.
What's it rhyme with?
It's all disclosure.
What's it rhyme with?
I can't.
You know I can't.
But what I can tell you really interesting.
Bob Saw.
What I can tell you is really interesting.
So when he called me, he came as a referral from another client.
And he called through on the phone.
And obviously, he asked me personally.
And we're going through his details.
And I said, what?
So he was by the 918 Spider.
It's from your brother, actually.
And he was borrowing a million pounds.
And I said, what do you do for a living?
He said, I've got a hedge fund.
Right, OK, cool.
And what do you pay yourself as a basic?
So I pay myself 750K a year.
I thought, right, perfect.
Because it's all about affordability in our job.
Can there afford to make those future repayments?
Net worth of a client's important.
But affordability is the main thing now moving forward.
And so I thought, well, 750 grand a year.
As in, it's based on income, not assets.
You got it.
Right.
Absolutely.
Assets helps.
Because obviously, it gives a really stable base.
But it's the income generation.
OK, and I guess people aren't self-serving anymore.
It's got to be what they're showing on their tax returns,
basically.
You got it.
Or in their business that they maybe
haven't drawn out the company.
But they could draw if they wanted to.
But this chat was a hedge funder.
He's PAYE.
Everything was P60.
It's all declared.
He's regulated.
So he said, 750 a year.
I said, right, fantastic.
I'm thinking, brilliant.
Affordability, easy-peasy.
And I said, just out of interest, do you take any bonuses?
Or he said, yeah, take a 90 bonus on top.
So I'm thinking even better.
Right, so I've got 840 overall income.
It won't.
Surely it's not a 90 grand bonus.
It's 90 million.
Yeah, 90 million bonus.
So obviously, a super strong client.
He's one of the biggest.
Gives a load of money to charity.
Really, yeah, he's a really good guy.
And obviously, very, very, very successful business.
And in fact, all of his business partners as well
are fairly doing pretty well as well.
So which car finance deal you've done
tells the greatest story?
Greatest story.
That's an interesting one.
Obviously, between me and Carl, we've done hundreds,
haven't we?
Thousands.
You've done thousands of deals.
Thousands of deals.
I mean, it's very easy to dictate how many deals
that we've done.
So I've known Andy for at least 20 years.
Shall we just say 20 years?
22.
OK, so 22 years.
Last year, OK, the business grows and
every year.
It never goes backwards.
It either stays very similar or it grows.
So last year, we sold over 400 cars.
I would say the finance rate is probably 70%
on cars that we sell.
Andy will do 90% of the 70% that we finance.
Times 20.
A lot of business.
Times 20.
Does it piss you off that you're not doing 100% of his finance?
Do you know what?
And it's not down to me that he's not.
All right.
Some people come to me and they say,
do you mind if I use my own finance?
And I go, I don't mind at all.
That's absolutely fine.
But if you want me to get you a better deal with a better
company, then let me give you a quote.
Right.
You know, the first time I ever met Carl,
you will obviously remember this because I turned up at,
obviously, the Hartley estate and pulled in.
This was probably like 2004, maybe 2005 time.
And there was Sky News vans everywhere.
And I thought, what is going on?
There's literally the old fashioned,
like big cameras on the vans and all this stuff.
Sky News vans.
And I was like, I came to see, I think I've seen your dad
or your brother or whatever it was at the time.
And I said, what's all these news vans for?
Literally, it was the full Sky team there.
And you were having your driving test.
Driving test, yeah.
There was like them, do you know them old,
you see them on like Ancoman, then vans with the big satellite
on the top of it kind of thing.
But that's what it was.
Like helicopter, barb and all that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so you were out taking your test, weren't you?
Yeah.
The helicopter's only come now for police chasers.
It's the only thing they've got that for.
What were you doing your testing again?
I done my test in.
Your test.
Are you sure?
Yeah, I'm sure.
I did my test.
Yeah.
Are you sure?
Yeah.
OK.
Well, I passed my test.
Yeah.
In a Ferrari.
In a Ferrari.
360.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 360.
360, I thought, oh, yeah.
What?
Did you drive a test in a Ferrari?
A whole different story.
Yeah.
That was for insurance.
Why?
Insurance.
I had to be insured in any car in the world.
You know, at 17.
So they had to prove I could drive that car.
So 21 years ago, yeah?
In 38, yeah.
Yeah, 21 years ago.
Yeah, 21 years ago, yeah.
So that's the first time I came to the Heart of the State.
Obviously, see, met you for the first time.
My brother done his in an F50.
How about that?
Put that in your pipe and fucking smoke it.
What were they worth at the time?
At the time?
250.
No, maybe 400.
Were they?
Yeah.
Maybe 400.
They dipped down there, didn't they?
They were like, they were low, really low.
You know, it's like six and a half, 7000000 quid today.
How much more does it cost to do your driving test in a Ferrari?
I did mine in a say at Ibiza.
What's the difference in price?
Must be.
Well, do you know what?
I'm going to let you into a secret.
I actually I actually done my test and passed my test in a Nissan Micra.
Right.
1.2.
And then basically for I had to go out and redo it,
but it didn't really didn't really class, I don't think,
but I had to redo it in the in the Ferrari.
And how much more expensive is it?
It's not.
So does it make any difference?
Of course it makes a difference.
Why?
Well, because if you drive an instructor, I don't know what you pay him now.
It includes the car.
You drive in their car.
Yeah, but I drove my car.
It was his own car.
Oh, so you just subbed in my car.
So you just got an external driving instructor.
Yeah, it was your car.
My car.
Yeah.
But so he came in and instructed you in your car.
Yeah.
You can do that.
Without your controls.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah, it's manual.
But your controls are only for lessons, I think.
Are they for the test?
I don't know.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
But like I say, the test was done in the Nissan Micra.
It was done and finished and passed and done.
But you just rocked up back in the 360.
I just rocked up in the 360.
We'll learn for the new room.
All right.
So yeah, which finance deal that you've done tells the greatest story?
There was one in particular where one month in particular
where we did four Pagani's in a month.
In fact, no, sorry, five Pagani's in a month.
Brie Hawaer is a Utopia and Azonda in one month.
And obviously all different clients.
But what I managed to do is we actually signed them all on the same day.
So I was in London.
I rented an office down at the Barkley Hotel.
All the clients were sort of baiting around London.
And we had to, at the time, we had to sign on kind of like on premises, etc.
So they all came.
We rented this room in the hotel.
And they all came down separate hours to sign the deals.
And that was...
So that was your biggest day?
That was the biggest day.
Biggest day.
And how much value of metal totally did you finance in that day then?
In total, I think in metal, probably about 30 million.
30 million quits.
In carbon.
In carbon.
Yeah, exactly.
Not much metal on them, guys.
But that was an interesting one.
I think another really interesting story was we financed...
In fact, I was at an event and I saw...
It was a McLaren F1 that was at this event.
And I didn't know who the owner was.
I knew the car.
I kind of recognized the plate.
And I thought, this was literally five or six years ago.
And I thought, I recognize that car.
And I said to my business partner, David, I said,
he's got the knowledge, remembers plates like from 20 years ago.
He said, yeah, I kind of know who that is, but I haven't got the contact details.
I said, do me a favor.
Would you find out his details?
So he's online, searching away, trying to get this client's name and details.
Anyway, found it.
And it was just online on a wine website.
So the clients obviously ordered some wine at some point.
And they've obviously put whatever reason on their website,
the list of all these clients they sent this wine to.
And his name popped up with his email.
So I got home from the event that night, sent him an email.
And I said, seen your car.
I'd HPI checked it.
So it was on finance.
McLaren F1, you know, mega car.
So it was on finance, recognized the lender.
So I dropped him an email directly and just introduced myself and said, you know,
this is what we do.
You know, I think I might better save you some money on what you've got.
If you're planning on financing, I can see the term ends in a month's time.
And anyway, this was like seven o'clock at night.
And at nine o'clock at night, I've got an email back from him saying,
I recognize you.
I remember you from years ago.
He sent me all his details.
So he said, here's my bank statements, my accounts.
This is exactly what you'll need.
Please, would you refinance my car for me?
And three weeks later, we refinanced it.
And that was seven point 9000000
So decent email then wasn't it?
Good email that someone else put on their website.
Yeah, data protection.
Straight out the window.
Got to be careful.
Well, there we go.
Someone's earned some money.
Well done.
So these very rich,
rich list people, they're financing cars to save cost of capital of having money
stuck in cars and then they refinancing them and pulling equity out.
Yeah, for normally for business investment, either to grow their own
business, it might be to to buy some additional cars.
It could be to buy a number plate or whatever.
Think about it this way.
Say if you want to buy a car.
Now, I'm just I'm not going to use I'm a million pounds as a figure
because it's easy to calculate.
It's a round figure.
Not every car has to be a million pounds, of course.
But if your business is doing very well, you might have several millions in your business.
You want to buy and go buy yourself a million pound car because you love cars.
To take that million pounds out your business and to put it into a car is going
to cost you one point 4000000 pounds.
So you you take a hundred grand out, you put a hundred grand down, you finance it.
Actually, by the time you calculate the interest, you're saving money than just
paying for outright and taking the money out your business because of the tax you pay.
Because of the tax you pay, personal tax, you pay taking out.
We have a lot of clients now that finance in the businesses.
You know, they finance them as as investment cars.
You know, they're not putting any miles on them or very limited miles and they're
doing it and setting up SPVs or LLPs or whatever it may be purely to buy by cars
and finance through the LLP or the SPV company.
I've seen a massive influx recently on people who I've always dealt with and
who always buy their cars personally to now buying them through their business.
Have you seen? Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, your invoice all these cars out daily.
That's what I'm saying.
That's how I know is because I'm invoicing them.
Yeah. And why do you think they're doing that?
I don't know.
You tell me. I don't know.
It's it's got to be.
Well, I know why they're doing it.
Well, why ask me then?
Because I wanted you to say the answer.
I'm just the fucking interviewer.
Well, that's the fucking question.
I've got another client exactly the same, you know, fantastic collection that again,
the story goes, you ask about like stories of these deals.
He I saw him online, actually, on Instagram, you know, a lot of people put the cars online
now. You obviously see a huge platform, isn't it?
I know you I mean, the stuff you sell on Instagram before it's even hit your website.
Yeah.
Ridiculous, isn't it?
And I'll see I'll see Karl do a post and like three minutes later, you'll text me and say,
can I have a finance quote on the car I've just posted because people are on it straight away.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I saw this this chap's collection on on Instagram, lovely cars.
I think it was a SP3 that he posted.
And so I dropped a message on Instagram.
It didn't reply.
So but yeah, I think he had a connection to his company on there.
So I thought I'll again, I find his email address.
It's like a stalker.
Don't know. I'll find his email address.
I'll pick.
As a private detective.
I'm a my business partner's dad was head of the police.
So he's kind of that's probably why he's good at it.
You're doing a joint venture.
There you go.
There you go.
So anyway, so I sent him an email to his business, didn't reply, sent another message on Instagram.
I thought, you know, I'll send him one more message.
And I put in the message.
I basically just said, look, you've got a beautiful collection of cars.
I can see you financially cars.
And it looks like they were Ferrari finance.
We can save you 2% on where you are.
I'd love to have a chat if you know if the opportunity arises.
This is this is me.
This is what I do.
And about a week later, he got back in contact.
And we ended up refinancing his SP3.
Since then he's bought an F40.
He's bought two Enzo's.
He's bought car off you.
Oh, yes.
Car off you.
He's and he is a no no no no.
He's such a lovely guy.
He is a lovely guy.
He's a lovely guy.
Very young.
And his collection is incredible.
The cars he's bought.
Would he come on the show?
Do you think?
Yeah, I think he would do.
Yeah, I think he would do.
He would do.
SP2.
Unbelievable cars.
Yeah, yeah.
All right.
And all off.
You know what?
He sent me a message.
I sold him a car.
I sold him a 512.
A 512 TR.
That's right.
Yeah.
And like for him, that's I mean, it's a 300 grand car,
but it is by it's not, you know, exciting compared to what he's
got cars worth, you know, eight digits.
So that's it's neither here nor there.
And he sent me a really nice message about a month after he took
delivery of the car.
The message was, Carl, I've just seen the car.
It's been up for a re getting inspected and whatever.
He said, I've just seen it.
I just want to say how nice it is, how happy I am and what a
pleasure you were to deal with.
And, you know, not many people would say that to you, but I just
want to reach out and say, he didn't have to do that.
He'd already bought the car, already paid for it.
It was already done.
He could have just said, you know what, thanks for the car, mate,
just seen it.
It's really nice.
But he sent me such a lovely message and I thought, well, you
know what, because often you get messages saying, oh, I've got a
scoff wheel on here or, you know, the handbrake light is staying on.
It's a 90s car.
You know, these things happen.
But, you know, he was really complimentary.
It's not rare that I can trump Carl with a story, but Carl got a text
message.
I got an invite to his Christmas party.
Yeah, I didn't get that.
Yeah.
So me and the Mrs went down, went to his...
Yeah, but you saved him money.
I cost him money.
Yeah, you might have made him money, though.
Yeah, I have made him money, exactly.
But, yeah, went down to his Christmas party.
Lovely guy.
What a fantastic team.
And the way he delivered this unbelievable Christmas party down
in London and all his team were there and, you know, it was old
school, look after your staff.
You know, they had an award ceremony.
It was like, honestly, what he's built, obviously, what his
business is, but what he's built as a business and the expansion he's
had is incredible.
So you'd be...
He's young.
Is he 40?
Maybe just under, is it?
Yeah.
What's his business?
He's multiple.
He'll tell you when he comes on the show.
Multiple.
We'll get him on the show.
All right.
We'll get him on the show.
It surprised me that many of these rich car collectors actually
financed their cars rather than buying them cash.
So if you're looking to finance your next luxury supercar,
hypercar, or classic car, then we've teamed up with Apollo Capital
and Andy, who's guest on this episode.
Apollo are the UK's leading independent finance broker for
high value vehicles.
They're highly regarded by lenders and dealers, and they
specialize in arranging finance from 50,000 up to 50 million
pounds, whether you're buying from a dealer, an auction, or a
private sale.
Since 1997, Apollo has financed over 2 billion in performance
luxury and collectible cars from the world's top marks.
They're also official partner for Salon Preve, Supercar Fest,
London Concourse, and Andy's been working with Carl Hartley for
more than a decade.
So speak to their team right now today on 01423 590 242, or
request a personalized quote at ApolloCapitalGroup.co.uk.
That's 01423 590 242, or a quote at ApolloCapitalGroup.co.uk.
What's your most financed car?
What car do you finance like every week?
Ferrari.
We do more Ferraris than any other brand.
What percentage of your cars are Ferraris that you finance?
In terms of volume, probably 40%.
Right.
And any particular one, common?
I think at the minute it's the investment piece, isn't it?
You know, we're doing...
Every Ferrari is a fucking investment piece at the minute.
Do you know what I mean?
400 Mondial.
That's fucking investment piece.
We need to stop talking that up.
Is that one of 10,000?
It's one of 36,000 cars.
There's nothing left that's got the...
But there's only 9,000 in the UK.
Yeah.
8,000 in red.
Yeah, yeah.
So, Limson number cars, you know, 812,
competitor Shioneys, 458, Speciale, Speciale Aperters.
Speciale Aperters, man.
The price.
The price of these cars now.
How much is one of those now?
I offered someone one and a quarter million.
This is a trade cost.
One and a quarter million for their 458 Speciale Aperter.
And he said, Carl, I ain't feeling it.
You're not getting my attention.
I'm like, you're not getting my attention.
What about 488 Pistas?
What are they like?
Pist... Pistocoupes.
The values are what you see online.
They're low-fors.
They're selling for low-fors.
I sell them weekly for low-to-mid-fors.
What about mine?
OK.
You'll get back to yours in a minute.
Pistas Spiders.
They'll give you 300 for it.
Pistas Spiders at 750 grand.
Have you done any at 750?
You have.
I've done a couple, yeah.
Late sixes, early sevens.
That guy's going to be left holding a baby.
Like, he's going to come Christmas
and that car's going to be 600 grand.
And he's going to be like...
Do you know what I mean?
29 sixes have taken a bounce back now.
You actually... You were unlucky.
And I was unlucky at the same time.
I was lucky, but I was unlucky
because we're both in the same boat.
But I bought a car off Andy of 488 Pista.
Tailor-made.
I've never had a tailor-made Pista before.
Tailor-made meaning...
You've gone to Ferrari, you've put over 100,000 pounds
with bespoke options on the car.
And they've made it specifically for you.
There's not another one in the world that's like,
it's tailored to your spec.
And I bought the car for...
300 grand.
Ish.
Yeah, ish.
I sold it for...
You know, 320, 325, 330.
Pretty quickly.
I had it on sale previously for about four months.
Yeah.
And didn't get a single...
Well, in fact, I had a couple of calls on it,
but people were making comments like...
But it was a very bespoke car.
It was a very bespoke car.
Being tailor-made means it's very, very bespoke.
But like someone said to me, someone said,
yeah, it's tailor-made, but it's tailor-made for someone else.
Tailor-made for you?
Yeah, it was for me.
Yeah, exactly.
But I must have found the other guy.
But fuck me.
Two weeks later, that car went up 100 grand.
100 grand, yeah.
In two weeks...
There, you win some, you lose some, don't you?
Can you say a bit of a correction
or a crash coming in this car market?
Yes, I 100% can.
But that's why I asked the question to Andy a lot,
because obviously we're both...
And I use this terminology quite a lot.
We're both in the trenches here where we...
I know the value of cars because I'm selling them.
And he knows the value of cars because he's funding them.
Someone could say, oh, I know the value of that car
because it's on auto-trader at 700 grand,
so that must be worth 700 grand.
Well, you know, we don't know if that's a real advert,
if it's a fake advert, we don't know if that's sold,
if it's not going to be sold.
We don't know.
I know because I'm selling them.
He knows he's funding them.
And some cars, like I've just said, this Pista Spider.
Now, don't get me wrong, a Pista Spider is a great car,
it's a lovely car, but you couldn't sell them at 400 grand.
You couldn't sell them at 400,000 pounds.
And they're now 750.
But there was not an auto-trader,
zero cars on auto-trader two months ago.
But that's what happens.
Have you checked recently?
Oh, yeah, 18 for sale.
Exactly that 18 yesterday.
So they're going to drop.
Well, do you know what?
Obviously what Carl mentioned about the price thing,
the only thing I would say is the people
that are buying these investment cars,
these like say the 812s and the TDFs
and all these limited number Ferraris,
they are very, very sensible buyers.
We haven't got people stretching up to borrow
and putting in a skinny deposit.
And we haven't got dreamers buying them.
Yeah, they're putting in 25, 30% minimum.
But they've got big collections.
It's not their only Ferrari, is it?
Yeah, no, no, no.
So all I would say is the people that are buying them,
majority of them are big hitters.
But I also think there is quite a lot of green people
out there who think my mate's just earned 150 grand
on his Pista.
I'm going to go and buy a Pista for 525 grand
because I know nothing about cars.
I'm going to make another 100 grand.
I'm going to make 100 grand.
And you know, they're going to get burned very badly.
I think what it has done though,
and this is probably the weak part,
is that it's pulled everything else up as well.
So that might be a limited number car.
But it's not a limited number car.
It's a limited production.
Sorry, not Pista, but some of the other...
It's not even that limited.
There's what, 3,000 Pistas in the world?
But I remember selling.
Do you remember the...
I bought a 488 Spider off you.
A couple of years back.
Yeah, black one, yeah.
All Andy's cars are black.
He's got one criteria.
His car has to be black.
Black, what do you go?
Black, black, black.
Everything is black.
It'll cut up about a car sometimes
because I'm quite honored that Andy,
as a relationship with every car dealer in the UK,
but he does buy majority of your cars from me.
And he'll call me up and say,
I absolutely love that, whatever it may be,
but it's not black, I can't buy it.
When was the last time you bought a car that wasn't black?
I don't think I have.
I can never remember.
Oh no, hang on a minute.
I bought a Phantom off you.
That was black?
Was it black?
Yeah, it was black.
It was in the sixth series two.
Yeah, 2007.
2013, 14 car.
Why only black?
I just like black cars.
I just always love black cars.
Just ever since.
My mate, once you go black, you can't go back.
Car wise.
That's a saying, no?
It is a saying.
You don't know what it refers to.
Cars?
No, it does not refer to cars, Carl.
I think it does.
Did you hear it from your wife?
No, no.
I heard it from yours.
LAUGHTER
That was a long time ago.
Just to make it know your sound is just there.
2000.
2015.
Yeah, 2015.
Two year old car, yeah.
Yeah, 2015.
You bought a ghost as well, black ghost.
Every car I've ever known, Andy, to ever have, has been black.
I think what I was going to say before about that Ferrari market,
we find more Ferraris than any other brands,
but what it's done is these limited number cars have obviously shot up,
but what it's done is it's brought the rest of the market up behind it.
So I'll say it about my fourth, you know, that 488 Spider.
You know, I can't remember what it was for,
you had 140K, something like that?
Yeah.
150 maybe.
Yeah, they're like 180 now.
That's ridiculous.
You know...
It's not, though.
It is?
I think it's inflation.
I think it's what you get for your money today.
That's a very, very, very good car.
It's a really good car.
That's a really good car.
Yeah, I had one.
I had one years ago, I loved it.
And, you know, I think it's to the point where...
458 Spider.
I was offered your 458 Spider the other day.
Why are you?
Yeah, your actual car.
I forgot to mention it to you.
Oh, right.
But I will mention it to you after the show.
OK.
It can be bought, it is for sale.
40...
No, it's 59,000 miles now.
Right.
But it's your car.
My car?
Yeah.
Right.
Do you know what I did to that car?
Do I want to know?
Well, let's say...
I crashed into New's International Building.
Oh, OK.
Yeah.
I'm not sure if the owner's currently,
because I was told the other day,
unless it's a good offer, it's not for sale.
So he doesn't know that.
But now you do, sir.
We'll talk about this after the show.
Oh, shit, you told me.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I'm on the world's most expensive crashes website.
I crashed it into the building that has the sun
and all the newspapers actually crashed it into the building.
So obviously I was...
I'm great for publicity.
I was in the newspaper, I was in all Daily Mail
and all the newspapers the next day.
What happened then?
Yeah.
Well, they're ceramic brakes.
I've said the same thing.
Yeah, of course, no one believes me.
No one believes me?
No.
Yeah.
I went around the corner in a straight line, basically.
This was the thing that worried me about coming on today
is that, well, two things, really.
What's Carl going to buy off me?
Because every guest that you've had on the podcast,
you've definitely either bought this old casting.
So I thought, what am I going to have to part with today?
And the second thing was, the last time...
Remember, you phoned me in Harrogate.
You were buying a... It was a 430 skid.
Yeah.
And you phoned me up and said, do you fancy a beer?
Do you fancy a beer?
So I went down to meet Carl for a beer.
Cost me, what, 30 grand?
Cost you 30 grand, yep.
Because it sold me a...
Sold me a set of wheels.
A 30 grand set of wheels?
Yep.
I mean, they were nice wheels.
They were lovely wheels.
In fact, that's their wheels.
That's them wheels.
You booked the dinner for us tonight.
You actually did it out of your own choice.
That was a 30 grand pint.
It was an expensive pint of beer.
Yeah.
Is Carl the best car salesman you've ever met?
Carl is unbelievable, salesman.
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
I think one of the things you'll realise,
having dealt with him and obviously many, many people
in the industry, the one thing Carl is,
he makes things happen.
You know, your black book of clients,
you know, that is the network, isn't it?
The people you know that you've dealt with over the years,
you'll buy a car or take a car in a car exchange.
And I know Carl already knows who's going to buy that car
before they know they're buying it.
Yeah.
You know, he'll make a call and he'll, like I say,
phome and say, pretty sure I know who's going to buy this.
And like I said before,
I already get a finance quote for them
because I know they deal with Andy.
And if I get them a quote, I'm like, right, bang,
here's the car, that's how much a month,
that's how much deposit, deal done, yes or no.
And they go, yep.
I think the challenge out there is that, you know,
there's some good independent dealers out there.
And there's a few decent franchises as well.
But across the board, very, very, very general comment,
you know, the sales people are pretty poor, aren't they?
It's all about how far you're willing to go.
I think when you're selling anything, I mean,
I enjoy buying more than I enjoy selling
because I think if I buy the right car, the right money,
God, you know.
You make your money when you buy.
Yeah, Christian, Christian's there.
Christian is just turned eight years old, right?
He could sell a car, no problem.
As long as he can speak and has the authority
to sign the invoice, he can sell a car
if I've bought it correctly.
To the right, expect the right mileage.
It sells itself.
Sometimes it's fun to sell a car in situations
like you've just said, I am going to put this car
on somebody that doesn't even know anything
about this car yet, but I know he'll fancy this car.
But that's because you know the clients well enough
because you have the conversations
and find out what floats their boat,
what are they interested in.
But you're a salesman and you're,
it's five plus five, it's home time now.
I very rarely do much business during working hours
in regards to nine to five.
There's not much business done there,
if I'm honest with you.
There's the running of a business is done there.
Collections, drop offs, pickup, when's that going out?
Have we been paid for this?
Andy can have a quote for this, quote for that.
Then all of a sudden, seven PM hits
and my phone starts ringing
or I start ringing other people's phones.
And that's when business is done.
I think the other things, the hunger as well,
you know, you're mega hungry.
I'm starving.
You're absolutely.
I'm bravenous.
I'm not eating for a week.
In fact, your dad always used to say to me,
years ago, he'd be like, he'd say,
every day you have to pay for each day.
Yeah.
Like every day has to pay for itself.
So you start the day on absolutely zero or minus.
And it'll even text us now.
You know, we've got a group chat
with the Dan and some of the sales guys
and you'll message in saying, right, it's Friday.
I want to have a fish with my chips tonight.
So we need to do a deal so I can pay for a fish and chips.
I don't just want chips.
You know, and it will.
I didn't know this until the other day.
We're on a group, me and Andy and like four or five of his team.
And I thought that was just like the Tom Hartley Apollo group.
He's got three Tom Hartley Apollo groups,
one with me on a separate one with me dad on
and a separate one with Rob on like.
So he's cutting you out of two of them.
No, no, no, but it's like, no, but like they don't,
they're not on my group.
So it's like, right, Carl's got this put.
So there's, there's how many staff you got Andy here?
It's over 20.
20.
So I would come in contact and deal with Andy
and maybe three others.
And me dad would come in contact with Andy
and three others of different
and Rob would come in contact with Andy and three others.
So it works.
I mean, the fucking hotly you may as well just,
he may as well put one of his staff in, in, in my place.
Like that's how much I remember.
I remember your dad telling me this story years ago
about you and your brother when you used to share a room,
didn't you?
And you was it your brother used to wake up in the morning
and wake you up and he turned around to you and say,
Carl, Carl, wake up, up.
We're absolutely skint.
We're brassy.
We've just got nothing.
We've got no money.
You know, that was a mentality that we were,
we were raised with.
We were raised with that.
And by the way, we never woke up ever on our own accord.
Like that door was kicked in at 7 a.m.
every single morning.
I don't care if it was Monday, Sunday, Friday.
It made no difference what day it was.
Every day is Monday in our household.
Every day is Monday.
And especially when the Sunday times was a thing.
If people are watching this who are old enough
to remember the Sunday times
and the driving section of the Sunday times,
Sunday times was like all hands on deck.
Like it's eight o'clock on a Sunday morning.
It's time to do some work.
Well, years ago, I used to start advertising in the times
with an advert next to you.
Yeah.
Like back in the day.
And Sundays were mega for inquiries.
Yeah, well, you know, this was kind of before,
you know, the internet was as easy to use
as accessible as it is now.
There was no smartphones.
So, you know, everyone's got a desktop now
in their pocket, haven't they?
So you pull it out where, you know,
before it was a case of, right,
let's see what car dealers have for sale this week.
Open the Sunday top, which was this big.
Yeah.
I could never fold it back up.
I could never fold it back up this big.
And like, let's see what everyone else said.
You remember you said the classifieds in there as well.
They used to phone through, didn't you?
Yeah.
They used to classify as buying cars, like off the private.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then obviously, you had your big.
Well, that's how I sort of earned my stripes, really,
in the company is I would be 10 or 11.
And my dad would highlight the private cars
that we were interested in buying that day.
And he would say, right, I'm going out.
He might have bought a car that morning
from the Sunday Times.
I'm going out.
There's the Sunday Times.
That was the Bible, mate.
That was literally your Bible until next Sunday.
If you were seen without scouring that paper
until next Sunday, there was problems.
Call these people and offer them for their cars.
Well, there's no going on auto trader
and searching what their cars might be worth
or might not be worth or what it is.
You've got to go buy, well, last week we sold an M5.
And this one had done 4,000 and that one's done 6,000.
So that one's worth a bit less than this one.
And so that's how that's the time.
We used to get inquiries off the times.
I remember one, like vividly,
and it was like say Sunday morning,
it was like 10 o'clock when the inquiry through.
We used to put a finance advert in.
Back in the day, we used to put an advert in.
It was always just a monthly payment.
So we'd have like three cars.
We'd have a Ferrari, which might be at 430 at the time,
maybe, yeah, 2005 would be a 430.
And we had it at 399 a month.
And then we'd have a Bentley, I don't know, 299
or 3 or whatever the figure was.
And then we'd have something a bit more expensive at 699.
But you had to phone up to find out
what the deal was on the car.
And I remember a chat called up
and we have a really good conversation
about it was a couple of cars actually,
it was looking at buying.
And it wouldn't give me any details at all.
It was telling me I was going through all the numbers
and everything else,
but he wouldn't tell me anything about himself.
And anyway, I said at the end of the call,
just what do you do for a living?
Just tell me a little bit about,
you said like, I can't tell you,
but all I can tell you is I'm in the airline business.
And anyway, that was it.
And I put the phone down, he said,
I'll come back to you if I want to do something.
Put the phone down.
I thought, you could tell he was, you know,
anyway, I got to work with his name
because he's a very, very famous guy.
Richard Branson.
I got to work with his name.
He happened to own an island.
Was it Jeff Yipstein?
But I, it wasn't the latter.
But so, and again, I've got that, like, hunger in me.
I wanted to find out who it was.
I wanted to do something, find it,
you know, I wanted to do a deal here.
So again, I did a bit of research,
everything else,
and I found, you know, obviously,
I kind of knew who it was.
And I've made to get his email.
So I emailed his, it was his PA and said,
look, I've just had this call,
da, da, da, da, da,
and like, love to do some business.
Anyway, two days later, he called back,
and he said, no one's ever,
well, I've called, I'm never going to give anything away.
No one's ever tracked, you know,
sent me anything afterwards.
I ended up doing like 10 calls for the guy
over the next three years.
And it's just, you know,
talking about what Carl's work ethic is,
and you know, your dad's work ethic is incredible, isn't it?
The hours he puts in, like, in a week,
are like, twice as much as probably the average.
But what, I don't get what else there is to do.
If I said to you, right,
and you've got to, it's half six now,
you've got to finish work.
Well, you know, you're self-employed,
you've never finished here.
No, of course not.
I seen a thing the other day on Instagram,
which is quite funny, it was saying,
what did it say?
It said, I'm going to work for myself.
I can't be told that I'm having a 30-minute lunch break.
So now I don't eat lunch.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, so.
Yeah, it's, you know, it's,
we work really well together.
And Andy has great relationships with the majority
of the UK car industry.
We deal with the best.
We, you know, we try and deal with the best dealers.
That's what we do.
What's the most amount of cars a client has financed with you?
Or the highest book value, the amount that they've financed.
In total.
Yeah.
In terms of Apollo, over the last sort of six years,
I'd say probably 20 million.
One client, 20 million worth of finance of you.
Maybe a bit more, yeah.
Maybe more.
I mean, I'd say there's cars at the minute that.
I would say there's, that I know of,
there's a few people around that.
There's a lot around that level.
Yeah.
There's a hell of a lot around that level.
Yeah.
Like I say, we're really, really fortunate that,
like I say, we've got that history.
We know a lot of people, you know, we're very, very,
well, we like to think we're very good at what we are good
at what we do.
And we don't, you know, my ethos has always been,
look after people, do them a great deal on day one,
you know, make sure, you know, we make sure our rates
are cheaper than the competition.
Otherwise, we wouldn't have a business.
You know, I need to be more,
I need to be cheaper than Ferrari,
cheaper than Lamborghini,
cheaper than Rolls Royce.
I need to be cheaper than other brokers
because I want to attract the best customers in the UK.
Yeah.
So I've got to be the best.
You know what?
From, I get mixed opinions when someone is buying a car
from me and is financing the car.
I don't necessarily think most of the time
your rates win the deal.
It's your service that wins the deal.
I think people forget when you're buying a car,
obviously price is important, but it's the experience.
You've got to give, you know, we give a service,
we're a service business,
but it's the experience of buying the car.
It's the, you know, a lot of that enjoyment
is the run up, isn't it?
Our clients, they'll be researching these cars for weeks
before they make the call to you to say, I want to buy it.
You know, they become experts in the car.
And it's the whole process of researching it,
negotiating a deal, collection day,
obviously financing it, you know,
making sure that process is all smooth.
It's not always about the price.
Like, you know yourself, if you're buying something
and you think you're giving it X,
and then last minute it goes up, it kind of ruins it.
I'd pull the plug immediately.
The personality that I am,
I would pull the plug immediately
because I've always said this,
and this is what I base all of my customer service on.
I don't want to make it hard work for someone to spend money.
I want to make it enjoyable for them to spend money.
That's what they've worked hard for.
They've worked hard to get the money to enjoy spending it.
You don't want to make it hard work
for someone to enjoy it.
And move the goalposts and change this and do that.
You know, it's not fair.
It's not nice.
And, you know, buying a car
is probably your second biggest purchase next to your house.
So, you know, it's not everybody buys it.
I mean, we have customers that buy a car every week,
but not everyone buys a car every week.
I've got a question for you, Andy.
Nine supercars or two hypercars and why?
Well, Carl, I know the answer to this
because he's the chap that told me to do it.
I know the answer to this question.
So it was, I think it was about 2014.
I've always been fairly like conservative with cars.
I've, you know, I love cars, huge car nut,
and I love dealing with people.
But car wise, I always used to drive around.
I had a 996 turbo years ago.
I've had a couple of, you know,
this is going back like 20 odd years,
but I always set my limit at like 50K.
That was where I was happy spending car wise.
I'd have a couple of cars, might have a,
like I said, a 996 turbo.
I'd always have the time, a Range Rover Sport,
and it'll be, you know, remember there were,
there were 45 grand, a brand new sport.
I used to get an overfinch kit on it, wheels,
this out on the other, overfinch was a big thing
about them, wasn't it?
And I used to, and that was, that was Britain.
I always had this kind of like numerical limit of 50K.
And obviously, you know, and finance wise,
that equated to whatever it was at the time.
And I went with that for a long time.
And then I think it was 2014.
It was a number of things, wherever, you know,
business was strong, we were doing really well.
The car market was starting to move up a bit
after the sort of, you know, what was it?
Deception.
Yeah, exactly after sort of, you know, 89 et cetera.
And I thought, you know what, fuck it.
And I went out and bought seven Ferraris in a week.
So I bought a three to eight.
What, do you have a nervous breakdown?
I don't know, I think I must have had a good finance deal.
But I had bought a three to eight GTS manual.
I bought 335 fives.
So a Berlinetto, a GTS and a Spyder.
Wow.
All manuals, a 360 manual, a 430 manual, and a 458.
Why did you go by seven Ferraris?
I've always wanted Ferraris.
I think at the time I was...
Yeah, but why seven?
One for every day of the week.
I did, I've obviously got some sort of problem,
haven't I?
Some sort of OCD with Ferrari.
But I'd held back for so long and doing what I do,
I deal with some unbelievable clients.
They're very, very successful people.
You know, we know a lot of very, you know, successful people.
Very interesting people.
I love finding out what all these clients do.
And everyone's sort of buying of these cars
and building all these collections around me.
But I thought, you know what,
I'm just gonna get involved now.
So, yeah, I just jumped in with both feet.
And literally we were tripping over cars at home.
You know, it was fantastic, enjoyed them all.
But it came to a point a few years later,
and it was Carl that said to me, he said,
do you know what, Andy, you've got all these cars.
And this was a lot, not quite a few years later.
But I'd always kept, you know, I sold the seven.
I think I'd turn it down to about four or five.
And you said to me, Andy, you need to get two,
or one big car, or a couple of nice cars.
And not have the maintenance, you know, the...
Oh, instead, get a Bugatti Veyron
with 75 grand of maintenance a year.
Well, I know the car isn't for sale
because I've tried to buy it.
But... About an hour ago.
Yeah, about an hour ago.
That's the only reason he was here early, isn't it?
I don't know. When you said you were out,
I was like, what the fuck?
You said we were friends.
But, you know, these cars, you know,
Andy's not a novice when it comes to, you know,
the car market or investments and good cars to buy.
He knows the same as a lot of our clients know.
I'm not the oracle of, you know, I know what's going to go up.
You know, if you've studied the market long enough
and you see what goes in trends
and you see what's undervalued,
you know what's a good car to buy.
And, you know, you bought a great timing when you bought this.
When you bought the Senna.
I bought it for quite a lot of money.
How much?
How much a month?
I bought it for quite a lot of money.
It was less than I wanted to pay.
Are we like, thank you, Mr. Chlera.
Maybe the Mrs. don't know.
So, you know, I'd rather watch this.
It's interesting story with that car.
What did you pay for the Senna?
It's, I think it's about two and a half grand a month.
It's really, it's a good deal.
OK. And has he gone up in value since you've owned it?
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
I mean, what, what, probably gone at what, 200 and...
You've owned it a short period of time
and it's probably gone up.
Yeah, a couple of underground.
It's made up for the Pista.
Hey, listen. Would you lose them the Pista?
I didn't lose anything.
It was the, I got my money back on it,
but it was the, the market had moved
and I sold a week before the market.
It's like you always remember, you know,
people always remember there what could have been.
Like recently we'd done a deal together
and we sold, I sold a guy in SVJ
and I, I'd taken in his Pista.
And at the time it was, you know, around 300 grand,
which was what the cars were.
They were for sale for two years for 300 grand.
And, you know, I seen him the other day
and he was like, oh my God, you know,
you, what a result you had on the Pista.
And I'm like, but your SVJ's gone up
more than what the Pista's gone up.
So it was never an opportunity for you to keep both.
That was never on the cards.
So you had to choose one or the other.
You chose the SVJ, which served you better,
but you're still upset about the Pista.
Like you can't win it all day.
Do you remember the GT3 RS I bought?
Yeah. That was a beautiful car.
But at the time, obviously they were the latest thing out,
weren't they? This was like 2022, 23.
23 probably, yeah. 23.
And Carl had a black GT3 RS, like box fresh, wasn't it?
Yeah, brand new. Brand new.
And it was, I think at the time, what, do you remember the first?
At the time it was the cheapest in the country
because they were advertised at 450 and 480.
The one sold for 500K, didn't they?
Yeah. So like, you know, they were advertised
for 100% more than what they cost.
And you know, it's not, it's a cool car, but it's not, you know,
it's not, there's nowhere near a half a million pound car.
And like, I mean, it's just not, is it?
No. And that lists about 250, isn't it?
250, 260.
So you had one.
I bought it off car, yeah. Great car.
I absolutely loved it.
But again, that tank, didn't it?
Time and wise.
The tight turn quick on that, didn't it?
Maybe 50K?
Yeah. Not the worst.
But I've done quite well actually too,
because it fell astronomically more after that.
But at the time, that was great money for that car at the time.
It's quite demand, isn't it?
Yeah. You know, there was none available.
That was the price. I enjoyed it.
Didn't do many miles.
Scared too, because the price dropped in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the original question was nine supercars or two hypercars,
which two hypercars.
And you said about the maintenance of your nine supercars,
what's the Bugatti costing you?
So in terms of servicing, it goes to furlongers.
Yeah.
It was like I say, it was Carl that recommended,
well, certainly you pushed the Bugatti.
Yeah.
You know, your experience with the Bugatti
from a personal perspective, a business perspective,
a social media perspective and enjoyment factor.
You were just like...
I just knew how many doors that would open for Andy.
And how's that car?
It has done. It's brought...
It's moved us into another network of clients and events
and servicing-wise, furlongers look after it.
It's about 10K for a service.
Yeah. So has this gone up since you bought it?
Hopefully. Yeah.
Hopefully.
What do you think this is worth in our car?
I mean, you know, there's no Veyrons for sale in the UK
for less than sort of, you know, one...
between sort of 1.3, 1.4 to 2 million,
depending on the spec of the car and the mileage.
You know, you don't get much for less than 1.5.
Yeah.
But in terms of ownership experience, like Carl says,
this has opened doors. Yeah.
Yeah, it's got us into these two events.
It's something you can't, you know, forget what the car loses.
If it... It's a car salesman.
No, but if it loses, it won't.
But if it loses, it's earned way more.
Like, it's earned so much more money.
And I experienced this completely unintentionally
when I bought my Bugatti.
Completely unintentionally.
Never... Didn't know...
Didn't think other doors could even open to the doors
that I already had open.
But it does.
I've met some of our best clients from owning that car.
Yeah.
From going to exclusive events,
parking in certain places where everyone parks,
you know, meeting them on the evenings or whatever it may be.
It's just... I've financed more...
I've done more business from that ownership
than any other mean of advertising.
I can well believe it. And I told you that would happen.
What's the best car for you to finance?
Obviously, the more we lend from a business perspective,
is, you know, the more we lend, obviously,
the better for business.
But in terms of, like, what's our most popular car?
Yeah.
It's that sort of 250K supercar.
Right. That's like our sweet spot.
Yeah. It's your sweet spot as well, isn't it, for sales?
Yeah.
You know, we do a lot of very, very big deals,
but most of the deals are anywhere between...
Well, now it's probably...
250 to 300.
Now it's probably 100 to...
Well, now it's probably 200 to 500.
Yeah.
Whereas historically, it was maybe 100 to 300.
Yeah.
And that's the sweet spot.
It's a quarter of a million quid.
Yeah.
But it's the same cars.
It's the same cars.
They've just moved up in price.
Right. Yeah.
It's the same as a Range Rover.
I talked about the Overfincher, drove 20 years ago.
The sports, they were 55K, all in, all done.
What's an SV, Overfincher or Urban or whatever it may be now?
Well, a brand new car.
Yeah. So a brand new Range Rover Sport SV, you know, is, you know,
it's the list price, you know, 180 grand.
Yeah. So it's triple.
That is madness.
And what are the worst deals, the worst cars to finance?
I wonder if it just doesn't seem to work for you.
We won't do them now, but it's electric cars.
Good man. That's why I deal with this company.
Proper company.
Oh, he's woken up now.
We made an exception. We did a few take-hands early days.
Because they drop so much in value, I guess.
I bought a take-hand.
And I, wait a minute, I bought a take-hand.
And I had it for two weeks.
And what, lost what in two weeks?
I didn't, it wasn't too bad.
I always say not too bad.
It was two weeks.
I think I lost eight grand.
In two weeks.
But the whole, again, they came out.
They were all the rage weren't they?
They're fetching overs.
Yeah.
I think I paid overs for mine.
I think I paid 10K over list.
That's disgusting.
So you're not really, you're not financially electric cars now.
We won't do it.
No.
Unless we've got a really good client of ours that's come to us, you know,
from a new perspective, new customers perspective.
I mean, you will have Spectre, Rolls-Royce Spectre.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
But for an existing client, of course, that's slightly different.
That's a different car.
Because that's forming part of a, you know, that might be their daily.
Yeah.
That forms part of a bigger collection.
Yeah, that's a different car.
Rolls-Royce Spectre is a different type of electric vehicle.
To a different owner, to a different user means a different purpose.
It's a different car.
The feedback of how on the Spectre is a mega, really, apparently.
I've never driven one.
Oh, mate, if that car had an engine.
Yeah.
Like, honestly.
They look amazing.
They would be, I wouldn't look at another car if that car had an engine.
I think some of them have dropped to a point now that...
They've actually gone up.
Have they?
Yeah, so, you know, you could pick one up for about 250.
Really?
Three or four months ago.
And they were great value because they're 450 new.
And now you're not going to get one for less than 300.
Well, it was all the tax piece initially, wasn't it?
Yeah.
It was the thrill of that, of the new design.
It was the tax piece that you could offset 100% of the value of the car you want.
Yeah.
That's now been removed.
Obviously, that's only on brand new cars, not used cars.
Again, I still think, you know, they look amazing, but yeah, it's just the electric piece, isn't it?
Carl, I've got a question for you.
Go on.
You can either go to jail for a year or drive an electric car for the rest of your life.
I'm going to jail for a year.
I've been to jail for fucking five years.
No problem.
I'm not driving an electric car.
Not doing it.
You'd rather go to jail for a year.
I'm not selling my soul, mate.
It's not for sale.
What about electric hypercars?
No.
It's the same thing.
All electric cars are fucking hypercars.
A Taycan Turbo S is basically hypercar performance.
No, definitely not.
Definitely, definitely not.
Back to what you said, Rob, about that sweet spot.
I do think, you know, Aventadors now, 488 Spiders, F8s, you know, McLaren, McLaren's in that bracket, 765s.
You know, there's some unbelievable supercars in that bracket.
And that is our sweet spot, isn't it?
That's what we do most of.
And which car do you predict will go up the most in value?
What's a sleeper that could go up, do you think?
Well, personally, if I was buying that bracket, like you mentioned before, 488 Spiders,
it's a great car.
458 Spider as well, I think it's a good car.
I think Porsche is looking cheap now.
I think you've got to tap into, when you say sleepers, you've got to tap into unloved cars.
Mondial.
Yeah, but unloved cars are sleepers.
Yeah.
You know, an SLR.
Yeah, that's...
It's always been an unloved car.
Yep.
Now...
It's not a sleeper anymore, though, is it?
No, they're not.
Well, I think it is compared to where it should be.
Yeah, I do.
You know, they've probably thick end of doubled in value over the last couple of years.
What SLRs have?
Yeah, because they were, you know, sub 200 forever.
And now you're not going to get much for less than 400.
What's that, a coupe or a...
That's a coupe.
Yep.
And I think they've got so much more potential to go even further.
I think they could double again.
So we were at Secret Meat last week, which was an unbelievable event, obviously, down at Silverstone.
And we were doing the, obviously, hypercar parade.
And someone cut me up, you know, we were supposed to be doing a fortnight hour, weren't we, on the track.
And I mean, I was doing about 100 and someone cut me up about 140.
And it was in an SLR.
And I actually said to...
My son was with me in the car doing the parade.
I actually said to him, that car is...
You look at everything else on that grid.
It was a 10000000
And that was the one car that you think actually it's on that hypercar parade.
It's an unbelievable car.
And like you say, the 400K.
And guess what?
I bought the car that day.
That car?
That car.
And I transported it home that day.
Because the same thing.
I looked at it, I thought these are cheap.
Yeah.
These are cheap.
Is that the one you sold this week?
Yeah.
Is that the one?
What else is cheap?
Yeah, I don't know.
So the SLRs are sleeper still.
What else is cheap?
I mean, it's certain things like another car I sold recently.
And I'm not a lover of it, by the way.
And I can understand why they're unloved because they're ugly.
But they're super rare.
Porsche 996 GT2.
Right.
That's a cool car.
996 is an ugly car.
The most unloved Porsche next to the 944, really.
And a 944 is worth about 300 pounds.
So a GT2 996 at 150, 180, 200 is still an expensive car.
But the one I sold recently was a, not many people know,
they're done a Gen 2.
So they're done a 996.2 in a GT2.
One of 16 UK cars.
The manual car.
Manual car.
The Widowmaker.
That was the original Widowmaker.
Yeah, yeah.
Good car to drive.
Great car to drive.
But, you know, ugly.
The 997 is such a better looking car.
You've seen recently, obviously, the growth in the older
kind of Lamborghinis, haven't you?
The Diablos, the Countache.
They were sleepers.
Yeah.
But you know what the common denominator is out of all of it?
There's one brand that's pushing them up.
Ferrari.
Ferrari.
Can you still get Mercedes-Benz Lagos at a reasonable price?
No.
You can't.
And they're still cheap.
And they're not reasonable.
And they're still cheap.
But you think most of them are going to go 150 grand?
Yeah, they'll try 350.
Fancy a road ride.
When's my fucking Aventador going to go up?
It's basically, oh, the only cars that don't go up are all mine.
That's just what I tell you.
What model is it?
It's just the first generation Aventador.
Roadster.
They have crept up.
They've gone up 50 grand in the last six months.
You know, they've gone from low ones to high ones.
Right.
That feels like a lot of car for that money.
If you look at how much everything else is.
It's a lot of car for them.
And the thing is, and we touched on this last week with.
I don't think they made many of the roadsters, did they?
We touched on this last week with Paul Wallace.
And I've been an Aventador owner to appreciate this.
And I've been an Aventador owner for seven years
from 2012 to 2019.
If you panic over lights, like warning lights,
like don't buy an Aventador because they just
light up like a Christmas tree.
To be fair.
I just ignore all the lights.
To be fair, for no reason.
Like there's no actual reason.
There's nothing wrong with the car.
But you may as well just get some black masking tape
and just keep taping over the screen of where it's engine
like, gearbox like, suspension like.
They light up like a Christmas tree.
What is it?
Just too many?
What?
Too many sensors.
Too many sensors.
Everything, your fuel cap wasn't put on tight enough.
So now your engine lights on.
Warning, do not drive.
That means nothing.
I've never ever owned an Aventador.
It's one of the few cars.
I'm really fortunate that, obviously, having a finance
company, I can finance myself a car.
And I've owned most cars.
And I've enjoyed most cars.
It's great to be able to say you have done.
Through you speaking to clients,
you can talk about the cars.
But I've never owned an Aventador.
I've had a Huracan.
Yeah.
I remember sitting in the SVJ in your showroom
about three years ago, that black one.
Yeah.
With a white stripe in the seat.
Yeah.
Had the absolute hots for that.
Yeah.
Didn't pull the trigger.
That was.
Look where that was now.
Sub 300 case, road stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Look where that is now.
What's it now?
And well.
Double, at least.
And the rest.
Yeah, probably 700.
I had the hots last year for your 599 GTO.
Yeah.
It wasn't black, though.
It wasn't black, but that's why I didn't buy it.
Yeah.
It wasn't black.
That's doubled.
I took that car off sale.
And I sold it the day I took it off sale.
For more than what I had it for sale for.
I can't understand human beings.
You know when people put some people study psychology,
I can see why they study.
Because it's so interesting to see how the human brain works.
If you say to somebody, right, I want to sell that water.
I want to sell that water.
That water's for sale.
That's a pound.
No, I don't want to buy it.
I'm not even thirsty.
Don't want to buy the water.
That water's not for sale.
Whatever you do, you can't buy that water.
Can I give you £3 for it?
That's literally the way humans work.
But I'm exactly the same.
It creates that illusion.
I mean, I'm on AutoTrader every night.
AutoTrader, pissing heads, collecting cars.
I'm always looking at cars.
I'm always looking for something.
And you know full well that you see something
that you've been looking at and it turns to sold.
Or whatever it is.
Straight away, I'm like, then I'll phone up.
It's available.
You know it's not available because it's sold.
But I really want it now because someone else has bought it.
I wish I had bought it.
What do the rich know about cars that ordinary people don't?
I don't know who think they do.
I just think they've got the confidence that...
Or the money.
Yeah, and the money to take that risk, isn't it?
Take the leap.
They can roll the dice and it not have a huge impact on...
Well, maybe that's how they got rich
because they're prepared to take risks.
But that's 100% what I was about to say.
I mean, that's...
There's all...
We all have a good investment idea
or could have bought into whatever.
And if you'd have had a spare million quid line around
that you didn't care about, you would have.
And it would have turned into 100 by now.
What does it say? Money makes money.
And you've got to initially roll that dice
to make that initial amount of money.
And what you do is you let people stay cash rich
by financing their car.
Keep it working.
You must have made on those 35 fives.
Yeah, I did okay.
The timing must have been good on those.
You did okay.
I remember I had my 430.
I just got it and I only paid like 70 grand for it.
And I loved it.
And I remember the 35 fives started with a three.
They were in the 30s.
I think I paid mid 40s for my...
The GTS might have been 51.
Yeah.
Spidey was the cheapest.
And this is the manual.
All manuals, yeah.
Yeah.
I remember when they were 30s
and I just thought at the time I was coming up.
I didn't think two for R.
I thought it was a bit like too much, two for R is.
I knew they were cheap.
Knew they were cheap.
Sam, Meg, Capristo exhaust.
They're so slow though.
Yeah, but the GTS, you get the roof off.
But sometimes that's all right, isn't it?
What I compare it to,
you can't compare a classic car to a new car
because the cars these days are so bloody quick.
I mean, you get into a BMW M3 today, just a standard M3
and this is fast as any 90s supercar there is.
Yeah, yeah.
But you compare it to their rivals.
And back then, and it's one of my favorite cars,
believe it or not,
and you're going to have a lot to say about this.
One of my favorite cars is a Porsche 993 Turbo.
That's a proper car.
What's that?
A really good car.
No, that's the one after the bad boys car.
993 came out from 95 to 99.
Right, OK.
That car was so fast.
My God.
That's faster than the Tester Osser, isn't it?
Yeah, so...
I've got a Tester Osser, they're actually quite slow.
But Tester Osser was kind of the era before this.
Right.
It was 1989.
Yeah, this was 95 to 90,
which was a big difference in cars' speeds by then.
I mean, the McLaren F1 came out in 93
and went to 243 miles an hour.
Wow.
That was like fucking mind-blowing.
And that changed cars completely.
An F40 was the fastest car in the world at 202 miles an hour.
Then the next car that beat it wasn't 205, it was 242.
Yeah.
So like it was insane.
So that moved a lot, but you know, you put...
So what year was that then?
The F1.
93.
93, you think the Bugatti was 2005?
It held that record for, yeah, 12 years.
And that beat it by 10 miles an hour?
Yeah.
So it was 253.
Yeah.
And it held...
You have a look on today's standards,
how long a car stays at the top of that ladder
as the fastest production car in the world?
Probably every fucking five minutes now, I guess.
Like last week's.
Between Bugatti and Kohn and Zeke, it's weak.
Oh, we made a new addition.
It goes another three miles an hour faster.
You know, so it lasts for weeks.
That lasted for 12 years.
12 years, Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini,
they all were aiming for that spot
and couldn't get anywhere nearer.
Those 90s cars now, it's the poster car, isn't it?
Probably our era.
And, you know, we obviously,
between us, we deal with very, very successful people.
You know, we deal with great people earning good money,
you know, that generally self-employed
or obviously high up, employed in whatever business they do.
And people now are going back to the noughties and nineties
and buying the cars that they used to have on the wall.
Yeah.
It's the poster cars, isn't it?
If they had them on the wall.
So I think the average age of my clients now
are getting younger.
They're not 60 anymore.
They're probably low 40s now.
Some are high 20s, some are low 50s.
But, you know, around 40 is the average age, I think.
And yes, the cars that they had on their wall,
I mean, someone had an E-type on their wall,
but he's dead now.
So that's why those cars are not 250 grand anymore.
They're 150 or even less than that.
But that's also why Diablos are not 150 anymore.
They're 500.
So the predominant buyer is the one
that determines what the price is of that car
because it's supply and demand.
And people want a different experience as well.
Going out on a day like today in a Diablo SV or, you know...
I don't know, the aircon's not very good, do you know?
Actually, maybe not a good example,
but it's just a nice dry day.
What an experience to have lost in that.
That's like nostalgic.
But for me, that is the car.
Like a Diablo is like...
You weren't a normal human being if you had a Diablo Nu.
You were Rod Stewart or Mike Tyson.
You weren't a standard human being.
And to get the feeling now of like,
wow, I'm in a Diablo that when I was a kid,
I used to go, oh, my God, you know what a car this is.
You know, that's special to me.
You know, McLaren F1's never done that for me, though.
No.
And I'd never look at McLaren F1 and go,
that's my poster car.
I actually think they're quite ugly.
Compared to a Diablo SV, an F50 or an F40,
I don't think it's the...
I think it's the holy grail of cars.
It's like tonic, isn't it?
It's the holy grail of cars that change the world.
Change the world.
Arguably the greatest car ever made.
But looks-wise, it doesn't do anything.
A T50 doesn't do anything for me.
Apparently an unbelievable drive, though.
Yeah.
I was with an owner at London Concord last week
that's got the F1 and the T50.
Yeah, same color.
And he obviously is a huge fan of the brand,
the Gordon Murray piece.
And he said that the T50 is incredible
because it's got all the feel of the F1,
but you've got the brakes,
you've got the performance, a bit of refinement.
Yeah, it's a 2026 F1.
It's a version of it, exactly.
Manual.
I mean, that car...
He said it's drive totally differently,
but there's some sort of...
Obviously, the main similarity is that centre seat.
What do you think of the fan on the back of it?
It's not really particularly good looking, is it?
It's not aesthetically nice, is it?
It doesn't look...
You know, like, oh, I love the fan.
Like, it just looks strange.
It gives you a talking point, that point of difference.
It's back to that demand thing,
that if you want to buy T50, you can't go one, can you?
How much are they now, T50?
Well, they came out at just shy of 3000000 quid.
UK tax paid.
And I mean... If you could get an order.
If you could get an order, and they're probably double that now.
You know, they're up to six.
I think they made about 100.
Something like that.
They made the same amount as an F1,
which was 106.
Right. Yeah.
What pisses you off the most in the car world, Andy?
Probably dishonesty.
We see that...
You see a lot of that going on?
No, I would say a lot.
But certainly we see it with...
You know, we had a client fairly recently
that was buying a 458, especially Arleigh,
from a dealer, not a dealer we deal with.
He's a new dealer, but, you know,
obviously selling a high-value car.
And the client had found the car,
approached us to finance it,
and obviously credit-wise, all organised,
all ready to rock and roll.
And so I dealt with it personally, actually.
I called the dealer.
I said, look, we've got this client buying your car.
Obviously, you know, would you be happy to invoice us?
Yeah, absolutely fine.
I said, do you mind me asking,
do you own the car or is it selling a turn?
He said, no, I own the car.
I own the car.
Right, OK, cool.
Because obviously, depending on whether they own it or not,
we go down a certain route
because we have to check the title,
we have to make sure that title can pass.
And obviously, it affects our documentation.
So it's a really important question.
It was like, no, absolutely categorically, I own the car.
And we've seen this somewhere over the years,
even more recently, where say, return with dealers that,
you know, haven't got that wool on the back
and the track history.
It's a bit of a sticky wicket, isn't it?
So anyway, he said, yeah, I definitely own it.
So we went down one route.
This route, we signed the client up,
all went in for payout.
The lender was checking the file.
We had to show proof of title
because he said he owned it, the dealer.
So we had an invoice, backup invoice,
bank statements to prove he owned it, sent it, it's the lender.
And we got a callback about half an hour back
later from the lender to say, we've checked the file
and there's so many regularities here.
So what do you mean?
He said, the bank statements have been altered.
Our compliance team in the bank have said
that the bank statements have been altered.
And the dealer has manipulated his bank statements
to show that he's paid for it when he hasn't.
Wow.
So this is what I quite like about,
and this has changed recently,
there's certain lenders that won't finance
a sailor return car.
So you have to show proof of ownership,
invoice proof of purchase, which I get asked for as well,
if I'm dealing with certain lenders.
And that's why he asked the question of,
is this your car or is it a sailor return car?
Because if it's your car, I can go through X, Y and Z,
but if it's not, I can't, I've got to go another route.
And I think it's a good, we talked about it in Starbucks
a couple of weeks ago after we'd done that
public speaking thing.
Our finance companies have changed.
They don't like financing cars that are not owned by dealers.
So that's exactly why we only deal
with the best dealers in the UK.
If we're going to recommend a dealer,
they need to be on our panel that we work with,
that we know, we trust, we've known for 22 years,
because we know that there's no questions
to whether they own that car or any type of issues.
Or if they don't, they just tell you.
Yeah, absolutely.
Which car screams that someone's trying too hard?
I don't know, it's a tricky one,
because I think any super car is in that sort of bracket,
isn't it?
You're buying it because you enjoy it,
but you're buying it because you want to enjoy it,
you want to look good,
you're driving it because you want to show off a little bit.
A cock extension basically.
A little bit, a little bit.
Well, yeah, I totally agree, but there is one that,
you've got to have one in your mind
that you think is more so than others.
What did you say?
I think we've had two good answers.
What was your car?
Lamborghini Urus.
Really?
Really?
Yeah.
Why is that then?
Well, don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong
with the Urus, I think it's a great car.
But, you know, it's your entry level Lamborghini,
it's exactly the same as an RS Q8.
So you're not buying-
I've been saying this forever, people troll me for this.
But you're not buying it because it's such a,
you're not paying double for that car
because it's so superior on an RS Q8,
it's the same car really.
But it's got a Lamborghini badge,
it's got an acroprofic exhaust,
which sounds a bit louder,
and you tell your mates you've got a Lambo.
So, right, I see where you're going now.
So I'd probably pick something totally different then.
I'd say something like a G-wagon,
but like a six by six or one of these things
that are massive.
Yeah, a four by four square.
That's the one.
Yeah, something like that.
That's, you know, you're literally driving above,
like six foot above everyone, aren't you?
And you can't drive it anywhere,
you can't park it anywhere.
Totally unpractical.
Totally unpractical.
That's probably the car I'd say.
Magnus Walker, he said the GT3 RS, didn't he?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which I think is a good car as well.
I think it's a good car in that category of trying too hard.
You know, there's two different owners of a GT3 RS,
in my opinion, there's the owner that does use it
for what it's for.
Take it to the Nurburgring.
It's a truck car.
They're on Silverstone.
You know, I love to see a GT3 RS
with a towing eye screwed in the bumper,
and it's just driving up and down.
Because I know that guy is tracking that car,
and he is having a great time in that car.
And then you get the guy who preserves his GT3 RS
and takes it for dinner with his wife,
and where are you going, mate?
Where are you going tonight in that car?
You have to do a thousand miles,
running, don't you, on them?
Yeah.
A thousand miles.
How many do a thousand miles?
You're not supposed to take it above, what is it, three?
3000 revs.
For the first thousand miles.
Yeah.
But like, no one does a thousand miles.
The three RS, you're like creeping around, aren't you?
Yeah.
Or bouncing around.
Yeah.
Like, you know, roll cage, spoiler, active aero,
massive downforce.
No luggage.
To go to the Ivy.
That's what you need.
You know, leave off, mate.
You know what I mean?
And a Eurus is like, I've got the Lambo.
You know, an RS Q8 is half the price, it's the same car.
But you don't want to be seeing an RS Q8.
You want the Lambo.
Do you know what, non supercar,
I think it's a really good car.
And I know we're in obviously in the middle of summer.
It's a Rolls Royce Dawn.
Yes, great car.
I think all Rolls Royces.
I think if you, like, Rolls Royce aren't going to make
another V12 convertible, are they?
They're not going to make another
coupe or convertible with an engine.
So there's a top pick then for...
Rolls Royce Dawn.
You think they'll go up?
I think they will.
Have they already?
We've done some deals on not dawns,
but like holder phantom drop heads and coupes, haven't we?
I mean, look at some of the drop heads I've been selling.
Three quarters of a million pounds.
For Zenith edition.
For Zeniths.
And selling them bang, instant.
It's all on to Mark.
Oh, it was on our...
Mark Bailey was on it.
Yeah, it was on our show.
Yeah, well, he just fucking buys anything and everything.
So I sold it to Mark.
He doesn't mean anything.
He's a savvy buyer.
He's a savvy buyer.
He's a very savvy buyer.
He's in the trade.
Yeah.
He's a carding.
Yeah, true.
But he just buys a lot of cars, doesn't he?
But he buys the right cars.
Yeah, very, very savvy buyer.
Loads of people come up to me and talk about our interview
with Mark.
Everyone says the Diana car story.
Yeah.
Just get it. Add it today.
Yeah, I mean, it's a great story.
Yeah.
So flip the question on its head.
What car that's so understated screams
that someone actually is full on rich?
Both to answer it will go with Andy first.
SP3 Daytona.
I think there's only one answer to this question.
And it's not of opinion.
It's the only answer.
And that's a McLaren F1.
You could drive a McLaren F1 through the,
we're in Harrogate at the minute.
You could drive a McLaren F1 through the town
centre of Harrogate and nine out of 10 people
would never clue what it is.
And it's 20 million pounds.
They would never clue.
They wouldn't know the brand because the McLaren badge
on an F1 is different to the standard badge on a McLaren.
So the badge on your centre is not the badge
that's on the McLaren F1.
Right.
It's just a straight badge says McLaren.
Don't you think you've got a difference there
maybe between like old school money and new school money?
Well, what do you call new school money?
It's not an old car.
Old school money is a 250 short wheelbase
or something like that.
Yeah, I suppose.
You know, it's still, it's a mid 90s car.
You know, I think.
Why the SP3?
I think just to get a car and get on the list with Ferrari,
you've got to have had some serious cars.
You've got to have bought some big cars over the years
to be on the list for a brand new SP3 order.
Right.
And they've, what they list, I don't know,
3000000 something like that.
3.7.
Is all the list?
Wow.
So I mean, we're funding them now.
We did one a couple of weeks ago at 6.6 and a quarter.
Yeah.
Yeah, I saw one for four and a half.
The week we were going into Harrods,
which was March last year.
Yeah.
I saw one just before,
because I really wanted it in Harrods.
But the guy wanted it.
He didn't want it to be publicly known
that he bought the car, whatever.
So I sold the car for four and a half million.
And other dealers called me up and said,
how much did you sell it?
Because no one, no, that was the first used one sold.
Right.
And no one said, everyone said,
how much did you sell it for?
And I was like, four and a half.
And they were like, no way.
Four and a half.
No way.
That is insane.
And now like, they're six and a half.
Like instantly gone at six and a half.
That Ferrari, like the SP3, the Enzo,
you know, what else is there, F50?
I mean, a 288 GTO, you could say,
is in that category of understated,
300 SL Gullwing.
Gullwing, yeah.
You know, there are things that people would look at
and go, wow, what a beautiful old car.
And it's 2000000 pounds.
You know, so, but I think the ultimate, ultimate, ultimate
is a McLaren F1.
Because people don't think it's a Lotus.
They wouldn't have a clue what it is.
We had a funny experience, didn't we?
Recently with a SL Gullwing.
Yeah, yeah.
Good car, that beautiful car.
Yeah, we had an experience.
What happened?
So we, a client that car was used to us,
lovely, lovely chat, wasn't he?
Bought a Pagoda.
Bought a 60 grand Mercedes 280 Pagoda.
Just like, you know, just a normal,
light, old, classic car.
Called up, lovely guy, great business.
Just, yeah, called up, we funded it.
And then he came back on, didn't he?
Maybe a, fairly quickly, wasn't it?
A couple of months later.
A couple of months later.
And he was just a big Mercedes fan, wasn't he?
A huge fan.
And this is what you can never ever judge a book by its cover,
can you?
So the backstory before that is, the year before,
I bought a Porsche 992 Carrera S from him for 80 grand.
The next year, I've then sold him a 280 SL Pagoda for,
I think it was a bit less than 70.
I can't remember, but 60 or 70.
So that's kind of where, that's where he is.
80, 70, maybe 100, maybe 120, but that's
kind of where he is.
But our job, and you do it extremely well,
but I enjoy it as well, because I like getting to know
what clients do for a living, what cars they've got.
You get to know them, and you can experience
this purchase with them.
And you kind of assume that that was,
like I said, about my 50K bracket years ago.
You assume that that's a client that will buy
100K cars or some 100K.
Yeah, and a couple of months later,
I posted a 300 SL Goldwing that was
in the incorrect color from what it was supplied new.
Wasn't a great condition car,
but I bought it with all this reflecting in the price.
And I thought, you know what?
Instead of selling it for a profit, as it is,
I half had in my mind, because it's one of my dream cars,
I half had in my mind, I'm gonna send it
to be totally not in bulk restored,
get it back to the original color,
which was silver with blue tartan seats.
And you know what?
Fuck, I might just keep that car and just tick a box.
Cool car. Yeah.
So I thought, you know what?
That's what I'm gonna do.
Sent it to the SL shop, very renowned Mercedes specialist
in restoring cars.
Spent a week back and forward having a negotiation
of how much it's gonna cost to totally restore the car.
Made a YouTube video telling all,
well not all, because I don't have that many,
but telling my subscribers what's going on,
let them follow the journey,
gives me a reason to make YouTube videos.
Because otherwise I don't really have a reason.
Hi guys, bought a car today, sold it.
You know, like.
Shortest video ever.
Do you know what I mean?
Like there's very little I can make YouTube videos about.
People can say to me, you need to do more videos.
I'm like, on what?
Anyway, thought I'll do this whole process.
I'll make maybe seven or eight or 10 videos
or the whole restoration process.
Let out the first video.
You called me that night and bought it from me.
For how much?
For 1.25 million.
Did you finance it?
So I got the call off car to say,
great news, Mr. So-and-so has bought this beautiful car.
Yeah, love, obviously love to help.
Went through the numbers, got all the finance sorted,
didn't we?
And I said to Carl, where's the car?
He said, it's some little bit of work done.
All right, cool, cause we have to inspect cars.
The asset inspection was quite a story.
So I was like, well, where's the car then?
I was just having a little bit of work done.
Like which part?
So anyway, we were a bit slow
to getting our representatives down to do it.
We're normally out next day, I think for whatever reason,
there wasn't a huge rush on the deal.
But we needed to get it done,
but it wasn't like normally it's like, you know, next day,
we had a little bit more time,
but we waited maybe three days.
We sent someone down to the inspection.
What I didn't know was that it was literally
in a thousand pieces on the floor.
And the engine was in one place,
and the interior was in another place,
and the shell was there, and that's how I'd sold it.
Did he know he was buying a thousand pieces?
Well, the cost for you?
Yeah, because how I sold it to him,
I sold it to him on the basis that I've had this deal
with the SL shop, it's kind of cost this much
to totally restore the car,
as the car is now is this much,
all oversee the restoration if you like,
but you still got to pay them separately
for what you're doing.
And he was like, okay, that's fine.
He wasn't bothered, he went to see the car in,
by the way, he went to see the Pagoda
and seen the car at the SL shop.
So it then come to the backstage,
back behind the scenes issues
that the customer didn't even know that we had,
was Andy was like, Carl,
the lender is not going to pay out on this car
until they can take a picture of the chassis number,
the engine number and the mileage altogether.
What could we do with four wheels on
and a couple of seats and maybe it's doing well?
This car is scattered all over Europe at the minute.
It's like someone's ashes,
it's literally scattered everywhere.
And I'm like, but I also know this restoration
is going to take six or seven months.
And I've sold the car before I've advertised it at a price
that I've been sort of haggled into taking,
which I didn't want to take.
So my argument with Andy was, Andy,
I don't want to take the money for this car,
let alone take it in seven months.
So deals off.
So he's like, well, I can't tell the customer
that deals off.
I'm like, what's sorted?
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Yeah.
So anyway, we had to get a few more valuations.
Basically, we had to value the car,
what it's worth in bits all over Europe.
Yeah.
But you got it done.
And it stacked up.
And he got it done.
He got me paid very quickly.
Got the guy, he had the nod that that was his car
and he owned it.
And it made everyone happy.
And that's the kind of service that I can honestly say
that I don't know where else I could go and achieve that.
The moral of the story is between us,
we always get stuff done.
Just get it done.
There's a will, there's way.
I mean, we shout out Pollock Capital.
Yeah, please, yeah.
And obviously Pollock Capital now,
we've been in the business for six years.
I've been financing cars for 30 years.
I'm in business with my business partner, David,
who I've worked with for a long time.
We've got a fantastic team, got a team of 20.
We fund some of the world's best cars
for some of the world's best clients.
We, as I mentioned before, we give a super professional
service, we've got the best lenders in the market
and we price our deals and our rates and our terms.
We make sure to attract the best customers,
we price them the best in the market.
And if people want to get a quote or come check you out,
check us out online, give us a call,
a Pollock Capital Group, got it UK.
Obviously call the number on the website,
call our company, call me, call my business partner, David,
call any of our team.
And yeah, we'd be delighted to look after you with
the best rates and terms in the market.
Great.
What are the biggest financial mistakes
people make buying cars?
I think it's, when you go into a deal
on a finance, on a car, one of the things
we're really professional about is explaining the contract
and explaining what that product is.
And I think not so much car wise, but finance wise,
you've got to know that the exit terms are important.
You've got to know whether you can pay off lump sums or not.
What's it going to cost me if I want to sell the car
halfway through the agreement?
What are my options?
Can I hand this car back at the end or not?
What are my rights?
Is it regulated?
Is it non-regulated?
And that's what we're really good at.
We're professional, we're honest.
We'll explain to the client exactly what the terms are.
We're dealing with very, very intellectual people
that will tell them what we can offer
and what the terms are and they'll make a decision
as to whether they want to go ahead
or most of our products are bespoke.
So we'll try and bespoke something to the customer.
And what's the most kind of common type of finance deal
you do in terms of the terms and the structure?
Yeah, so you've got two products in the market really.
You've got lease purchase and PCP.
So PCP is where you get a guaranteed hand back at the end.
So that's typically for, again, just as a rule of thumb,
maybe cars up to 120, 30K sort of bracket.
So it's like your Audi, BMW, Mercedes,
you know, that type of vehicle.
And that's very popular in that bracket
because clients want to know,
they'll probably keep it the full term
and they'll want the option to maybe hand it back at the end
or not, depending on the value of the car.
The lease purchase market is the same product
but without a guarantee at the end.
And most clients that are buying supercars
that we do on a regular basis don't keep it the full term.
Right.
Unless it's an investment piece,
most clients will swap, won't they?
Ah, I mean, you know, if...
Or refinance.
Yeah, potentially, potentially.
You know, we've had this conversation when we've...
So we've done business with Andy for over 20 years
but Apollo started six years ago.
And when they started, we sat down and had this conversation
that look, if someone's tied into a three-year deal,
that's no good.
They might take a lease purchase on a three-year term
but they can't be, you know,
they've had the car for 68 12 months.
They've had the car for 12 months.
Time for a change.
A lot of finance companies tied the customer up into a deal
where they have to then pay the two-year's interest
to get out the deal that they're in.
I mean, that just...
I wouldn't sell that customer any cars.
It'd have to be in his car for three years.
I had a scenario a few years ago
where we had to use, as a particular client,
we had to use a tier two lender.
It was a slightly higher risk
but we got it sorted and the client was happy with the deal
and I had to use a slightly different lender
that I hadn't actually used before.
But everyone was happy and we were moving forward.
And I actually went out to see the client personally.
It was quite a large deal.
And the lender came out, the representative
from the bank came out to meet him.
And this just sort of proves the difference
between what we do
and what does sometimes happen in the industry.
You know, I'll go through that contract with the client
before they sign and I'll tell them
what they need to know in terms of flexibility,
in terms of exit, the rate, the payments,
the interest, you know,
I tell them everything they need to know about that deal.
It's almost like a short idiots guide to finance.
And I was doing that with it.
You know, I started the process of going through it
with the client and the lender was,
this particular guy was next to me.
And like I said, it's a lender.
It's the first time we'd used them.
It was a new...
And he said, he started going through the contract.
He said, like, I'm really, really sorry guys, I need to go.
I've got to go and pick my,
like starting from school or something.
I need to dash.
Can you just quickly sign and I need to go?
And I actually had to turn around and said,
whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, we do this properly.
I need to go through these terms
so the client knows everything.
And the lender literally wanted to do like,
almost like someone would do,
I don't know, 20, 30, 40 years ago,
it was like almost like hand over the document
and sign and run.
And anyway, we don't deal with that lender anymore.
We didn't actually continue with that transaction
because it's so important, our reputation is everything.
And if we do something like that,
word gets round, it spreads out,
it's no good for that customer.
I'd rather not do that than have someone put us
in that situation.
So that's probably the worst situation
I've ever had in that scenario.
Yeah, any clients you wouldn't deal with
or don't deal with?
Yeah, it's quite a few we wouldn't deal with.
For what reason?
You don't have to say their names
because obviously I found out you don't do that.
But what kind of, what would be some criteria,
some crosses to make you not deal with clients?
So obviously if we're lending money,
we don't, there's no good as lending money
unless we get paid back.
So we're very particular about who we lend to.
Do you mean affordability or do you mean what they do?
Their brand?
A bit of both really, a bit of both.
I think it's a combination of all affordability
as a key factor.
Because what was that big lender you mentioned?
Was it Alderman?
Alderman, yeah.
You know they're going on people's social media
and refusing loans if they don't like their social media.
Is that right?
They are, yeah, yeah.
Really?
They are.
So would you look at someone's profile
as well as their affordability?
The insurance company do that for me
for house insurance actually.
Because they knew you were?
Yeah, they went through my,
obviously I've got house insurance now
but the one that I went for a price to
when I moved in my new house was like,
no, you're too big of a risk.
You've got a massive dog, it should be cheaper.
Yeah, that's why I got the dog.
The dog's like, you're like,
well you have a tracker on your car
and your insurance goes down.
Well you buy a Doberman and your insurance goes down.
Norm's come around your house.
But no, they said it was Eurik.
Eurik Insurance said, no, your profile,
you're sort of too much in the public eye.
I think lenders have a responsibility
in terms of that public profile that,
obviously if they let do a lender
and something goes wrong and it's in the public eye,
they don't want to be associated.
So yes, they would do a Google check
and a social media check that,
that won't be the sole reason for a decline.
There has to be another factor.
It can't just be that.
But that could be an attributing factor
to a lender refusing to lend.
Okay, so affordability is a thing.
Reputation and brand is a thing.
What other things are you not lending on?
I think obviously affordability is a key factor.
I think certain cars we can't lend on.
So it could be like if, obviously,
cat-d-cars, things like that.
It could be the fact it's a certain import
that we can't do it.
We can only fund on UK cars.
We can't fund anything abroad.
The key thing that we look for really is,
as I mentioned before, we try and offer the best rates
and the best service to the best clients.
So we have to be picky.
We can't, we'd be in data with inquiries
if we just put that offer out to everyone.
And we'd lose our service level
would drop through the floor.
Also, if someone's got a track record
of changing the car every two weeks,
they're not an ideal customer for you, aren't they?
They're not a good client, but do you know what?
Sometimes you have to take the rough with the smooth.
A client's not always going to keep their car
for 234 years.
So a client might change their car every six months.
Obviously, if they do it every two weeks.
But we both have customers who do change
their car every two or three weeks.
That must be great for you.
It's great for me.
It's hard to get them financed though.
Right.
Because a lender doesn't earn any money.
You haven't made a payment yet.
Ha!
Wouldn't they have early redemption fees on that?
Yeah, absolutely.
But the one thing you mentioned before, Carl,
about years ago, there was lenders
that would charge the full term interest to exit.
You know, I campaigned hard with the lenders
over the years to offer,
we used to do quite a bit of variable rate business
as well as fixed rate.
And the reason we did the variable rate years ago
was the rates were relatively low,
but the flexibility was only a month exit.
So that was a great product that we used to do a lot of.
And I promote that a lot.
Yeah.
When I'm selling a car to somebody,
I say, look, you have this car,
I have it for, take it on three or four years,
have it for 12 months.
If you want to swap it or upgrade it
or do whatever you want,
it's going to cost you a month's interest.
Exactly.
Or three months worst case.
So on a regulated product,
that exit is set in stone.
It's a month and up to 28 days.
So it's a maximum two months interest.
It's a month plus the number of days
to your next direct debit.
That is the penalty of interest.
Whereas on a non-regulated,
which is what you were talking about before,
there were certain lenders
that would charge the full-term interest
and I campaign really hard.
So when I do a deal with a lender at the start of the year,
of a, you know, like say 150 million for this product,
it's a fixed rate product.
It's probably a high net worth non-regulated product,
but it's going to be on a 90 day exit,
which is the lowest in the market.
And we lock the in on day one because,
like I say, we don't need,
we don't want to lock people in for three years.
We want to give them that flexibility,
especially when, you know, dealers are selling cars.
That's no good for you.
No, it would stop me.
It's so good for the customer.
So it's a better outcome for everyone.
And Rob, what do you think of the whole car finance world?
I understand the cost of capital part for high net worths.
I mean, 15% return is not normal,
but if you're a really rich, smart hedge fund manager,
and you can get that,
I get why you might do a deal sub 10 on car finance.
If you can make 15, that's not normal though.
So I really get that and the cost of capital bit,
especially if you're buying seven figure cars
at the lower end though, when people can't afford it,
and they're financing up a Lambo,
that they can't really afford just on the monthly,
and they're buying on the advert based on,
oh, look how much you can pay for a month.
I think that's financially irresponsible and stupid.
That's my thoughts.
And at the moment, rates are plus 10.
You know, you know.
Not with the Polo capital, then.
Well, all right, but like many places are 11% at the moment.
Now, it's all about the cost of the finance,
because if you think when rates were 0.5,
and you could get almost free money,
why wouldn't you finance the car?
But you know, when they're 10 plus,
you've then got to think about that.
He knew the answer to this question, by the way.
Yeah, I can tell.
But I think cars are an emotional purchase.
You know, no one needs a Veyron or a Senna.
You don't need one.
Why, you kind of do.
Well, I need one for my business,
but normally you don't need one.
You know, it's an emotional purchase.
You want one.
So that client you mentioned that's seen a monthly payment
or whatever it may be on a, like I say, a 408 Ferrari,
you know, yes, we would only lend to them responsibly
if they could prove they could afford it.
So we're not selling something to someone to say,
you need to take this.
But they might be able to prove they can afford it,
but it still might be quite a high percentage of their income.
It might be, but that, you know, ultimately,
they want to buy that.
You could say that with renting a property, couldn't you?
That you're renting that property, but it's a high...
Well, you need to live in a property.
You know, you actually need somewhere to live.
It's a slightly different to a car, isn't it?
It is, but from a price perspective, though,
you know, that could be £2,000 a month rent,
which might be X percentage of their income.
Yeah, but you know, you're living in it, you're eating in it,
you're raising a family in it.
You do that in your Cullinan.
I do.
You live in it?
I've been in it. It's a fucking mess in there.
You can't race a property, but you can live in a Cullinan.
Yeah, I think, and you've got two, you know,
you've got different markets, you've got, you know,
different clients looking at different cars
and different markets.
We're very, very fortunate.
We deal in a bit of a bubble market at the top end.
Obviously, there's a wider market, and you're absolutely right.
I'm sure there is some people that are buying cars
that they are stretching themselves,
but ultimately, they don't have to buy that car.
You know, they can go for a low-value car.
They can pick a different option.
You know, you should always, you know, we're an advocate of,
you know, it's got to be sensible for them to buy that car.
And we're not forcing anyone to buy anything.
What kind of interest rates are you charging then
in your deals?
Because it depends.
Yeah, it depends on the loan size,
depends on the lender, car.
Depends on the amount they put down as well, I guess.
Yeah, not so much, but sometimes,
there's probably four or five different factors.
But currently, we're going to, you know,
the market's ever changing in terms of rate piece.
Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah.
But, you know, currently for our average loan,
you're anywhere between probably late sixes to late nines.
Right, okay.
I mean, late sixes is your blue chip,
absolute incredible customer buying a blue chip,
incredible car with absolutely no risk.
So people can't expect to call you up
and get a 6.86.9,
but there is certain customers on certain deals that can.
I know that because we've done them.
But, you know, let's say there's criteria.
It depends on the lender, it depends on the car.
What kind of percentage deposits are people putting
as they start out?
Typically, I mean, one of our most popular products
is an interest-only product.
So similar to a Byterlet,
where you're purely paying the interest monthly.
So it gets you into an unbelievably good car
for what is a relatively low monthly payment.
But to do that, you've got to put a decent
capital injection up front.
20 to 30%.
Right, and then if you're capital out.
Because what you're doing there is you're covering,
at the minute, as we know,
a lot of these cars are actually increasing in value,
but what you are doing is you're almost paying
your potential depreciation in your lump sum up front.
Right, yeah, yeah.
And then if you repayment an interest,
what kind of deposits can people get in at?
10%.
10%.
Yeah, that 10% would be a standard profile.
But again, our average across the board is probably about 20.
Right, I was shocked getting into this world,
because obviously I've been buying cars for a long time.
And most of them I've bought cash.
I financed a couple, but most of them I've bought.
I was shocked how many people who look pretty rich.
And then I interviewed them, we'll get to know them.
They aren't really that rich.
And they're jacked up on some cars.
Yeah.
Really fucking, I mean, fair play.
Some of them have made money on them,
because they don't tell you the stories
of the ones they've lost money on.
But I was just like, whoa.
It's a huge market, isn't it?
But I guess you look at it that, you know,
if you're earning well and no one wants to save
for four years these days to buy a car, do they?
That's part of the problem.
Especially in four years time.
Don't go broke trying to look rich.
Mother fuckers.
But there's another side to that coin.
You know, if buying a Veyron opens doors for you,
and the gap is only gonna get bigger
between you being able to afford a Veyron,
or when you can afford one, it's still gonna be out of reach,
but even more out of reach,
because they're increasing in value.
But you know that can put me in places
that will make me afford this car.
Can you get an Veyron on 10% down?
Surely not.
No.
No.
What do you need down on a Veyron?
20%.
20%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What do you fancy, one?
So let's do a Veyron quote off the top of your head here.
Right, so let's do a Veyron at 1.5 million,
this is easy numbers, 1.5 million, 20% down, 300 grand.
What's it a month over three years?
Interest only.
Will you get interest only on?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You get interest only on a Veyron, 300 grand deposit.
Yeah, 1.5 million if you can get one.
Yeah, if you can get one.
There's all the hypothetical here, but let's just...
So what 1.2 interest only,
you're probably looking at about 7.5 to 8 a month, 8K a month.
8K a month, it's one deal a month in a certain business.
Yeah, it's not a lot of money to be in a Veyron.
And you know, that's, and you break it down,
in a year, will that Veyron go up 100 grand?
Probably.
I think it will.
So the appreciation...
I hope it will.
The appreciation...
Risky prediction.
Well, you know, I'd stand to it.
Yeah.
The interest has now already been paid
by the inflation of the car.
Okay, it costs, let's say 20 grand a year to maintain.
It doesn't cost 20 grand a year to maintain.
If you buy it, no, it doesn't.
It costs less.
But let's just say somewhere between 10 and 20,
because we both have experience
of that's what it can cost, 10 or 20.
I mean, don't get me wrong,
if it goes pear shaped, you could cost you 200,
but that's what it is.
Let's touch some wood, yeah.
Yeah.
You know, is that not a good...
Is that not a good...
And you look the nuts not striving it.
Yeah, interesting.
I'm not saying I'm right.
I just, I feel a moral duty.
I've written books on money.
I feel a moral duty, just, you know,
I think all these people are like,
given it large, because they've got a Lambo on finance
and they're broke.
I just, you don't need to do that.
Just wait a couple of years, work hard
and then get a fucking reward and go buy one outright.
That's the way that I've always been bought.
That's how, yeah.
Isn't that just the way the world today?
That, you know, it's like anything.
It's quick fix.
You go on Amazon, you want it tomorrow.
Yeah, you do.
You pissed off.
Yeah, yeah, why can't it come today?
Yeah.
Whatever you do, the kids want to go out for a bite to eat.
You know, they want it there and then.
What a weight, do they?
Wait for a table for an hour.
Everyone, the phones and just the way of the world,
people want instant gratification.
Everything is instant now, isn't it?
Everything is instant.
Yeah.
I mean, I would, a message I would love to get out.
I think there's a nice middle ground,
whereby if you can get a half decent rate, 78
and if you can take your capital and get 12,
and if you can buy it in a company,
then, and you're smart,
I think finance can be a great tool.
I agree.
I think if you're buying shit, you can't afford
to impress people you don't even know or like.
I think it's fucking stupid.
Yeah.
And it only makes them like you less as well.
No one looks at you in a car like in you.
They like the car.
They don't like you.
They hate you.
They like the car.
I see the thing on Instagram,
they were so funny and it was like,
it's like the attention I thought I would get
from buying my super car.
And like this guy is hallucinating.
There's like this beautiful woman like in a bikini.
She's like, oh, nice car.
And then he goes, in reality,
it was like five more than middle-aged men
going, hey man, nice car.
He's like, that's not the attention I was going to give you.
No one lets you out of junctions.
Like sometimes it can attract a different type
of interest, can't it?
I guess.
Because it's a bit of jealousy.
It depends what car you're in.
I mean, if you're in-
And where you are.
If you're in a lime green Aventador,
I don't think there's a more hated car
to be driven to drive on the road.
Why would you have a lime green Aventador?
Why?
Why?
That's like having fake boobs on fake boobs.
I mean, yeah.
Some people might like that.
Sounds all right.
The Aventador is enough.
I have a gray one.
Because the Aventador is enough.
Why does it need to be lime green?
Well, if you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly.
You know, if you're going to do the whole Lambo doors up,
loud exhaust, fuck it, it may as well glow in the dark.
But you just said that's the most hated.
No, it is.
I mean, you are.
No one likes you.
No one likes you.
Even your friends don't like you.
Do you know what still blows my mind today?
And like I said, we're doing the job for 30 years,
is we, as I mentioned before, we operate
in a bit of a niche market
that we're right at the very,
we probably deal with the top,
I don't know, 3% of earners in the UK.
So I don't get to see the other side of that market,
the people that you mentioned that are stretching.
It still blows my mind today.
I mentioned that scenario about,
when we take application details,
the income of that particular client,
it still blows my mind today
how many people are doing so well
when the UK is a tough place to earn money.
But I'm only seeing that small section
of the UK.
Yeah.
You know, there's obviously a lot of people
that are struggling and where business is really tough.
But naturally, if you get a call,
generally the people we deal with
are buying quarter million pound cars.
I know, but it doesn't mean they can afford them.
I mean, you allow them to afford them.
And what Rob just said, it does happen week in and week out.
We know it does.
It could be someone who's earning 50 grand a year,
which is a good earn,
but they want to buy a 300 grand car.
And if you're earning 50 grand a year,
you're getting 35 after tax.
And he wants to buy.
Yeah, and then because it's all over Instagram,
you can't afford a car like that.
But the lenders wouldn't approve it.
No.
We have to be responsible.
I know, but I do still get them phone calls
that we have to knock back and them say,
look, I want to buy this car.
Because they're aspirational, they want to,
but they're obviously pushing themselves too far.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But we have to, we have to learn responsibly.
We always have done, we always will.
But yeah, Rob, you're probably right.
There are some brokers that maybe don't learn responsibly.
And that's not, we don't get involved.
What percentage of cars would you say,
I suppose you wouldn't know this being a broker,
but that you know that get repossessed?
We don't, hard to get any.
So we're very, like I say, we're very particular
about who we deal with and what we do.
Was there a baguette got repossessed?
There was a baguette that got repossessed recently.
I know about that.
That's it, I'm not going to talk about it, face.
No, I'll talk about it.
Yeah, because I will.
I've got to get repossessed recently.
Who's was it?
I think everyone on social media knows whose car it was.
But you know, big deal.
Like cars get repossessed all the time.
I know the car.
We didn't fund it, but we were asked to finance it.
And we couldn't unfortunately, for various reasons,
but we didn't.
What would be a reason?
Just various, just all of the above
that we mentioned before, a mixture of affordability
or social media or Google ad, Google ad.
All of them.
Yeah, all of the above.
Yeah, all of the above.
We just, you know, the chap, as you know, is a nice guy.
He is a good guy, but we just, you know, we just couldn't,
we couldn't fund it.
But he had it on finance for what, three years?
I think it comes to the end of the agreement.
Again, we didn't do it, but the lender then repossessed it.
Yeah.
And it was, I was bought by.
But I mean, the.
Was it Matt's car, wasn't it?
That's Matt's car, yeah.
So, Matt Armstrong.
So the, I remember watching a Bugatti Veyron
go through BCA, British car auction, in 2008, 2009.
So it would be a 2006 car that was repossessed in 2009.
And, you know, believe it or not,
I think if you looked at how many Bugatti Veyrons
have been repossessed, the percentage would be really,
really high.
Really?
Oh yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Considering how many cars are made
and the percentage of them cars that have been repossessed,
I think it would be very high.
I can count on one hand the amount of cars
we've had to repossess over the years.
Yeah.
You'll remember one of them, which was an F50.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You told them that.
What happened?
It was.
I sold the F50.
You sold it?
I sold it to the guy.
What happened?
It was at 8.9, wasn't it?
Credit crunch.
I mean, 2008, 2009, it was the Wild West.
Yeah, it was a tough period, yeah.
It was the Wild West.
I mean, from a different perspective,
it was, right, this goes today,
how much are you willing to pay?
And you don't know where the market's going.
Everything's going down.
Part of that, everything just went.
And it's like, oh, finger in the sky.
But yeah, an F50.
Remember that?
That was a big repossession.
That was, well, it was, and it wasn't because...
What was the time, actually?
Yeah, it was, what was it, 350K, 400K?
It was 475 I sold it for.
475.
475.
And...
Yellow car.
Yellow car.
And I mean, how many cars do you repossess today
for half a million quid?
Like, you know, lenders would repossess loads
for half a million quid.
Back then, it was like, oh my God, it's an F50.
I remember a deal we did, probably a 2009 time,
where I can't remember what you sold the chap.
It was a hotelier from London.
And you took two part exchanges in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Remember, you took in a Veyron.
A Veyron and an Enzo.
Enzo.
They're two good swappers, aren't they?
Yeah.
A Veyron and an Enzo.
What do you report?
Come on, what do you report?
I can't remember what he brought.
I can't remember what he brought.
But I actually bumped into him last year
in Monaco, believe it or not.
He was a big property guy, wasn't he,
in a hotelier from London?
And you know what?
Enzo's and Veyron's at the time were the same price.
I gave him the same price.
Wasn't Andreas, was it?
Can't remember.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah, Enzo and a Veyron at the time were the same price.
So, is a Veyron, is the same price as an Enzo today?
No.
An Enzo's 6000000 pounds.
It's double.
Triple. Yeah, triple.
So it just shows you where things will go,
or where they could go.
Crazy, isn't it?
Do you do your own social media?
You have an account?
Yeah, we do.
So we've got a polycapital group,
which is obviously a business account.
I've got my own private, which is Andy King.
Yeah.
Truthfully, we're a bit late to the party.
I'm a bit of a social media dinosaur.
Well, let's get loads of people over to Andy King.
Yeah, he won't struggle.
He won't struggle.
That's really kind, guys.
Yeah, we, you know, Karl's been a big advocate
of really, obviously in terms of the Veyron
and what we do as a business.
But, you know, you've been doing it for years.
Obviously, likewise, literally we started it six years ago.
So it's gathering a bit of momentum.
We do some good business off it.
You know, it is good to, you know,
show what you're doing out there.
You know, you need to be on it.
You've got to be there to win it, haven't you?
Yeah.
So now we're a big advocate.
I don't mind getting in front of the camera
to promote the business.
My business partner, David,
he's the man behind the scenes in the office.
He's my MD.
He does a phenomenal job in terms of running the team,
keeping everything sort of, you know,
all tickety-boo here in the office.
And I'm out there sort of really pushing the social media
and getting to the events, you know,
hosting clients, meeting new clients.
All right, awesome.
Carl, I had an idea on the way up here.
Okay.
What do you think to getting one of our fans?
Do we have any fans?
Three.
Okay.
Are they on the desk over there?
Including me, me too.
It depends on the video and you read it
as to whether they love you or love me
or the other way around.
And we're doing like a little bit of a competition
so they can come and interview you and I
and they can be the interviewer.
I mean, I'm up for anything.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm up for anything.
What do they need to do to do it?
How do they apply?
Well, I reckon join our WhatsApp channel.
So we'll have a link in the video.
Join our WhatsApp channel.
And if we decide we're up for it,
maybe they could come to yours
and they could be a guest interviewer and interview us.
Also, what I want to do as well, Christian,
I got my son here
and I want to try and make his dreams come true.
So Christian, how old are you?
Eight.
He's eight.
And Christian would love YouTube
to supply us with a play button.
So look, if you don't already subscribe,
but please subscribe,
make this little boys dreams come true
and supplying with a YouTube play button.
You'd love that, wouldn't you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if you want to buy a car,
then head to go and see Christian
because he'll give you great deals.
And he's got Andy on speed dial,
so he can also sort out finance.
Can't hear.
All right.
All a crafty crystal.
Good boy.
Good luck.
That is the cheapest shot for a subscriber.
I've ever seen him on YouTube.
Get your kid in.
No, but he's like,
Daddy, have you got a play button?
You got a play button?
Like I'm some kind of failure
that I don't have a play button.
So I need to get a fucking play button.
By the time this is out,
your son will have our play button.
All right, okay.
But thank you all of us subscribers.
And Andy, thank you for bringing us down here.
Thanks for putting the cars out.
Thanks for giving your time.
Really appreciate it.
Thanks for taking me out in the Bugatti as well.
At Supercar Fest, which I really enjoyed.
What did you do the first time in the Bugatti?
Oh yeah.
What did you think?
Yeah, well, I loved it.
I mean, obviously Andy wasn't caning it,
but it just doesn't stop going.
No.
Like when every other car sort of like slows down on it,
that's just next level, level.
It's not really felt anything like that.
And then the noise,
people, a lot of people complain,
well not complain, but I've derogatory things to say
about the noise of the car.
Now V8.
What's wrong with the noise?
Well V8, a V8 engine screams.
V10 even more.
A V10 even more.
V12 is a smooth, is a smooth engine.
A W16 is silk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like it's caviar.
Yeah.
Like it's not meant to,
but the noises inside the car, the turbos,
the whooshes, the air intakes, it's theater.
Yeah.
It's cool.
A wear Ferrari, a V8 Ferrari, or a V10 Carrera GT,
has theater in a different way.
A Bugatti has theater that, the Pagani was similar.
You know, it was a V12 by turbo.
That's got four turbos and God knows what else.
So yeah, the theater is there,
but people like the growl and the pops
and the bangs of the exhaust, but it doesn't need it.
We did about 165 Rob.
Yeah.
But I glanced across and you were holding on.
You were like gripping like this.
And it's smooth, isn't it?
It is very smooth.
I wasn't holding on.
You were.
I was holding on.
Come out.
It's probably the driver, not the car.
Exactly. There you go.
There you go.
And it takes up really appreciate it.
Thanks for having us, guys.
Thank you.
About this episode
Andy King of Apollo Capital talks luxury and supercar finance at the top end, including a wild month of signing five Pagani deals plus a Huayra, Utopia, and Zonda—totaling around £30m in financed value. He argues rich buyers often finance to manage opportunity cost, comparing loan rates to returns from hedge funds and bridging investments. King also calls out dishonesty in paperwork, shares a story about refinancing a McLaren F1 after spotting it at an event, and discusses how “affordability” (declared income) matters more than net worth.
3000 revs
996.2
active aero
agreement
air intakes
Apollo Capital
Auto trader
BCA, British car auction
Berlinetto
bespoke
Audi RS4
BMW M3
BMW M5
Bugatti Veyron
Ferrari 360
Ferrari 430 Scuderia
Ferrari 458
Ferrari 488
Ferrari 512 TR
Ferrari Daytona SP3
Ferrari Enzo
Ferrari F40
Ferrari F50
Ferrari F80
Ferrari SP2
Gordon Murray Automotive T.50
Jaguar E-Type
Lamborghini Aventador
Lamborghini Countach
Lamborghini Diablo
Lamborghini Huracan
Lamborghini Urus
Land Rover Range Rover
Land Rover Range Rover Sport
McLaren 765LT
McLaren F1
McLaren Senna
Mercedes-Benz 280SEL
Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Coupe Gullwing (W198)
Mercedes-Benz G-Class
Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren
Nissan Micra
Pagani Utopia
Porsche 911
Porsche 918 Spyder
Porsche 944
Porsche Carrera GT
Porsche Taycan
Proton Preve
Rolls-Royce Cullinan
Rolls-Royce Dawn
Rolls-Royce Phantom
Rolls-Royce Spectre
Toyota Supra
Original notes
To explore car finance options, contact Apollo Capital - https://apollocapitalgroup.co.uk/ or 01423 590242
Today we're joined by Andy King, one of the UK's leading supercar finance experts, who has arranged funding for some of the world's rarest and most expensive cars, from Ferraris and McLarens to Paganis and Bugattis.
We discuss why the world's wealthiest people finance their cars instead of paying cash, the biggest deals Andy has ever completed, the investment strategies behind the supercar market, and why he traded a collection of supercars for just two hypercars.
Follow Andy - https://www.instagram.com/and1k1ng/
Follow Apollo Capital - https://www.instagram.com/apollocapitalgroup/
Join the Cars & Money community - https://robmoore.com/cars
🤝 Sponsored by:
➤ Money.School - To Make, Manage & Multiply More Money, join us at https://money.school/goldcars
➤ Tom Hartley Cars - https://www.tomhartley.com/
🎬 More Cars & Money Content:
➤ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carsandmoneyofficial/
➤ Shorts: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYS-7tYpRkJmrVIUq8-WV_A
➤ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Cars-Money/61579331221620/
➤ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@carsandmoneyofficial
🔗 Connect With Us:
➤ Rob’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robmooreprogressive/
➤ Carl’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carlhartley1/
Cars & Money
Rob Moore & Carl Hartley
0:00
116:14