They’re debating when the Mustang should officially be considered to have started—1964 or 1965. It’s a history question about the car’s launch timing and how people count the anniversary.
Octane is a rating that tells you how resistant the fuel is to engine knocking. “93 octane” is just a specific fuel grade people can choose at the pump.
“100 low lead” is a type of older-style gasoline rating. Classic cars sometimes mention it because older engines were built around fuels that were different from what’s common today.
“Mustang” means the Ford Mustang car line. The episode is using the word to talk about the different versions and history of the Mustang. It’s the main car topic of the show.
This is Ford’s communications/public-relations group. The speaker is saying someone from that team was involved in the discussion.
Car
Ford Gt350
Ford is the company that makes the Mustang. In this episode, Ford is mentioned because the discussion is about how Mustang versions were made and presented. It’s part of the background for the Mustang story.
A “sticker package” here means a cosmetic branding/appearance kit—typically decals and graphics—rather than a mechanical or model-specific build. The hosts use it to argue that the GT350 look was applied without making the car a genuine GT350.
The Shelby GT350 is a performance version of the Mustang with Shelby branding. The episode says some cars had GT350-style graphics or packages that weren’t the real GT350. That can lead to confusion about what you’re actually buying.
The Shelby Cobra is a famous sports car name tied to performance history. The episode mentions that Ford later bought the rights to use the Cobra name. That matters because it connects the name to future cars and expectations.
The Ford Mustang GTD is a high-performance version of the Mustang. The episode is talking about how GT350-style stripes can be just graphics on some cars, not necessarily the real GT350 package. That helps explain what to look for when identifying a specific Mustang.
“GT350 Stripes” refers to the distinctive stripe graphics associated with the Shelby GT350. In this episode, the stripes are discussed as a visual identifier that were applied to an 1984 Mustang GT, leading to confusion about whether the car was truly a GT350.
An “anniversary edition” is a special version of a car made to celebrate a big date. It usually has some unique looks or features, and people may treat it as more collectible because it’s tied to the anniversary.
They’re talking about special Mustang versions that were sold with unique themes or limited availability. The episode uses this as context for why anniversary cars get attention from collectors.
Concept
7-up
“7-up” sounds like a nickname for a particular Mustang special edition. They’re discussing what year it really belongs to and how that matters for the anniversary conversation.
The Toyota Supra is a sports car made by Toyota. It’s designed to feel quick and fun to drive. The episode mentions it because it’s a well-known performance model.
Term
tri bar
A “tri bar” is a small interior design feature—basically a set of three bars—on the dashboard. They’re using it as a clue for which Mustang edition/year they’re talking about.
Dearborn Assembly is a Ford factory. The host is saying some of the official anniversary Mustangs were built there, which helps confirm they’re the real limited cars.
They’re using “failed campaign” to mean a promotion that didn’t work out the way Ford hoped. Because it didn’t land, the cars connected to it ended up being reused for the anniversary idea.
A “paced car” is a car that leads or sets the speed for other cars during an event. Here, they’re talking about Mustangs being used as part of track promotions.
Company
American raceways
They mention “American raceways” as the group that had plans for tracks and events. The hosts say that group went bankrupt, which changed what happened with the cars tied to that plan.
They’re talking about the Ford Mustang and when its “anniversary” should start. The discussion centers on what year Ford treated as the beginning, based on the badges and markings on certain cars.
VIN means Vehicle Identification Number. It’s the unique ID number for a car, and they’re saying you can’t really have a “half-year” VIN the way you might think—at least not in the normal way.
Pilot vehicles are early test cars made before the real production cars. They’re used to check that everything works and is built correctly, and the hosts say these were mostly destroyed.
A warranty plate is a label on the door jamb with key info about the car. Collectors compare it to other markings to see if the car was built or stamped correctly.
Pre-production units are early versions of a car made before the factory starts regular production. They can have different details than the final cars, so collectors use them to understand what’s “really” early.
Pre-production cars are early test/preview versions built before the factory starts making the regular cars. The hosts are using them to explain why some “year” stories people tell don’t match the evidence.
A serial number is a manufacturer-assigned identifier for a specific vehicle or component. Here, the discussion is about pre-production Mustangs having serial numbers and sequence markings on the radiator support, which can be used to verify authenticity.
A model-year is the year the car is sold and labeled as. Sometimes the car is announced or celebrated earlier, but it still gets assigned to a later model-year when it actually goes on sale.
Lee Iacocca was a famous car-industry leader. The host is saying his marketing/announcement timing was smart and had long-lasting effects.
Concept
anniversary car dating debate (1964 vs 1965)
They’re arguing about what year counts as the Mustang’s “true” anniversary—1964 or 1965. That choice affects which newer Mustang gets labeled as the anniversary car.
They’re blaming the Mustang’s “official” date confusion on Ford’s marketing—how Ford promoted the car when it was launched. That can lead to different dates showing up in books and online sources.
Concept
continuity of something
They’re talking about whether the story of the Mustang’s dates stays consistent across different sources. Some references may not match, so the “birthday” debate keeps coming up.
The Ford Thunderbird was a major, high-profile car from Ford. It was meant to be one of the brand’s top models at the time. The podcast mentions it to compare Ford’s earlier flagship status with the Mustang’s popularity.
Concept
heritage remains pure
They’re talking about keeping the Mustang true to what it has always been. The idea is that fans want updates to respect the car’s history instead of changing it in a way that feels like it’s losing its identity.
“Purists” are fans who want the Mustang to stay as close as possible to what they consider the “real” Mustang. They often disagree with changes like new body styles or big departures from the original formula.
The Mach-E is a Mustang that’s fully electric and looks more like a crossover than the classic Mustang. Some fans argue it dilutes what a “real” Mustang is, because it’s a different kind of car.
A “four-door Mustang” would be a Mustang with two extra doors for the back seat. The hosts are debating whether that kind of change would hurt what makes the Mustang special.
The Dodge Charger is a well-known American performance car that’s existed for decades. Here it’s mentioned as an example of a brand that changed its shape (including door count) over time.
“Anniversary years” here refers to the debate over which model year should be treated as the official start of the Mustang’s history. That matters because it affects how the brand celebrates milestones and which cars are considered the “true” beginning.
A “pony car” is a type of American sporty car—usually stylish and fun to drive, but not necessarily a hardcore race car. They’re saying fewer people want that exact formula lately.
This refers to the practice of using the “Mustang” name/badge on a vehicle that isn’t a traditional Mustang body style. The segment frames it as something purists disliked, because it blurs the brand’s heritage and expectations.
The Ford Fusion is a regular passenger car model made by Ford. The podcast is saying that it’s no longer part of the lineup being discussed, and that Mustang is what’s left as the focus. It’s mentioned for context about which cars Ford is selling.
The Chevrolet Corvette is a sports car made by Chevrolet. It’s built for performance and has a reputation among car fans. The podcast brings it up when talking about which cars have had the biggest impact.
A prototype is a one-off or early test car made before the final version goes into regular production. The host is wondering if the surviving Corvette was a prototype instead of a normal customer car.
Topic
Mustang 65th anniversary timing (1964 vs 1965)
They’re debating when the Mustang’s anniversary should really start—1964 or 1965—and what year Ford should celebrate the 65th anniversary.
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Own the dream.
Hello Mustang fans and welcome to another episode
of The Mustang Owners Podcast.
I'm your host, John Clore, along with my co-host, Mike Ray,
and today it's another Get Smart edition.
We just have to get smarter about history.
We don't have the correct information all the time.
So when people ask this question like,
hey, is the Mustang anniversary from 1964 to whatever year,
or is it from 1965 to whatever year?
The answer is, Mike, the answer is yes, it is, both.
Yeah, yeah, so we'll get into the details for Jim.
Yeah, so today we have, welcome back to the show,
Jim Smart, the erstwhile Mustang historian,
our favorite Mustang historian out there.
Jim, thanks for joining us again
on another episode of The Mustang Owners Podcast.
Well, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
There's just so much yet to be explored and confirmed,
and no matter how much you try to confirm all of it,
there's a lot of people out there that are going to,
you know, argue the point.
Well, they're gonna get gas on this one.
And I don't mean 93 octane.
Well, no, 100 low lead.
Okay, so let's tell everybody out there in podcast land.
So I know a lot of you,
we've talked about anniversary cars before,
just recently on a couple of podcasts
about the 60th anniversary car,
and that brought up a question that someone emailed to me,
and they said, hey, listen, John, I have a question.
Why did, if the anniversary of the 60th anniversary car
was 2025, and the first Mustang is a 65, that's 60 years.
But how come you had a 45th anniversary car,
and there was an anniversary car in 1984, the GT350,
and some were 64 and some were 65.
So we said, that's right.
And Jim Smart, Jim, you were around when these cars came out.
You probably thought to yourself, hey, an anniversary car,
that's a great idea, except is it 1964 that we're celebrating,
or is it 1965?
Why did we come out with that?
I think the first one, Jim, was the 84 Fox Body GT350,
that Edsel Ford and Carol Shelby
had a little disagreement about.
Am I correct on that one?
Well, let me give you some history.
In June of 83, I interviewed Edsel at the Wren Sen,
and we did a long interview for Mustang Monthly
about the Mustang and his involvement, his memories,
and all that, and it was a nice interview.
And then I asked Mr. Ford
what Ford Motor Company was doing for the 20th anniversary,
and it was a little bit of a deer in the headlights
because I don't think anybody thought about it.
See, at that point in time,
the Mustang was not a big deal at the cusp of the 80s.
It was just, but anyway, I asked Edsel,
I said, what does Ford have planned
for the 20th anniversary?
And he said, well, what would you like to see?
I love it.
Before I could answer him,
he looked at Bob Bierman,
who was Ford Public Affairs,
you probably knew Bob Bierman, right?
Yeah.
Anyway.
He's been around a long time.
He was the guy.
Oh yeah, I mean, he was a great guy,
but anyway, he looked at Bob Bierman and said something like,
I think we can do something about that
or something like that.
The next thing I know,
there's a 20th anniversary Mustang being produced,
and it's like, I don't know if it was that interview
that's spurred it or somebody had Ford thought about it,
but he had the 20th anniversary
and then the GT350 stripes were kind of an afterthought.
Well, Mike, I would say, based on what we know
from talking with a lot of guys on the original program,
that Jim Smart caused the 20th anniversary car.
I would love to ask Edsel now to see if he even remembers that
and get that answer for Jim.
Well, Jim, we do know that making the 84 GT
into a GT350, and it was really in Stripe only.
That was a sticker package.
That was not real on GT350,
but that caused some problems because Carole Shelby
thought, wait a minute, that's my trademark
and Ford's putting it on a car
and by the time the Fox body came out,
that relationship was long gone down the driveway.
You know, Ford and Shelby had since parted ways before that.
Ford bought the rights to the Cobra name,
but they didn't get the GT350 name.
And really, if you look at an 84 Mustang GT,
the GT350 Stripes are just a graphics thing.
There's nothing unique about it.
It's a 84 GT.
They were all, I think, either Oxford and White
or Polar White, I forget.
But the funny thing about the 84 anniversary cars
is I think there were labor issues at Dearborn Assembly.
I'm not positive, but every single 84 anniversary car
I've seen has serious paint issues.
Oh, wow.
Oh, I know that.
What an anniversary.
That's like my anniversary.
When I forgot, it was my anniversary.
I went to CVS and got cupcakes.
Well, that won your points.
Oh, it didn't.
It's not a good one to remember.
So, okay, so we make this anniversary car,
but Jim and Mike, let's face it,
we know how people are,
when they see it's an anniversary edition,
they go, oh, I should get one of those
because that's gonna be a special edition.
And I don't care whether,
no, I don't know, you guys,
I mean, I liked special edition books.
You know, we have Brad Bowling and Jerry Heasley.
They did Mustang special editions.
That was such a fun book to read
because that was just the crazy stuff.
Like the weird regional stuff and the anniversary cars.
And then, Mike, do you have CarTex book?
Remember the Mustang special editions?
That was-
I did not have that one.
John Klein and Jeffrey Klein did this one.
This one was all the obscure.
So, when I looked it up and I said,
you know, you guys are right,
all the people listening to the podcast,
we've had usually, Jim, we would follow the 1964
through the odd number anniversary and we got it.
But then something happened,
the Fox body kind of changed all that.
And then, were we really gonna do an anniversary car
for like the 93 summer edition cars?
What was that all about?
For 89, John.
Well, the 89, no, that's the whole 7-up thing, Jim.
Well, the 7-up was technically a 90, right?
But, right, so here we go back with that again.
But 89 is when we were talking about earlier was,
how they just had the little tri bar
that they put on the dash on the inside of the car.
So, Mike, that was, did every Mustang have that?
That's to celebrate the other, in addition,
but do we have an added advantage?
Why don't we get an anniversary car like Jim Smart Cost?
Get an actual, you go to the dealership and say,
I want an anniversary car and they check the box,
rather than just say, oh, geez, it's anniversary.
Let's stick that on the dashboard of every car.
I mean-
Let's take a step back to 84, four dealers,
various four dealers did their own 20th anniversary cars.
Oh, no.
I mean, I'm talking GT350 stripes on a GT convertible.
Let me see, 84, yeah, he had convertibles that year.
I'm serious.
And I have had mail from people who had a dealer
created 20th anniversary car.
And the ones produced at Dearborn Assembly
as anniversary cars, I think, are numbered, right?
There's like 5,260 of them.
And then there were like 260 produced for Ford executives,
and that kind of stuff.
Anyway, getting back to 89, 90,
Ford had no plan for the 25th anniversary.
Even though it was on CBS, you know,
did you know the Mustang is 25?
And I think Tom Corcoran of Mustang Monthly
went on CBS this morning and did an interview.
But anyway, they really had no plan for the 25th.
And I think there was a 25th anniversary cake
at Dearborn Assembly and Ford Brass all year.
But they took the seven up cars,
which was a failed campaign and made them 25th anniversary
cars, and I forget how many of them were produced.
I've got a buddy in New York who has one
who could probably tell us more about it.
But yeah, the 25th anniversary cars were all
failed seven up campaign cars.
I don't understand.
A lot of people thought, you know,
doesn't Ford work this stuff out before they go ahead
and, you know, they're working with the Densey AA.
They were gonna do that, you know, this big promotion
and then stuff falls through.
Mike, you know how that is, you know?
Yeah, it was for the March Madness Tournament, I believe.
Yeah.
They didn't call it back that bad then, but yeah.
You know, we need to have a whole episode
just on that vehicle alone.
Yeah, so Jim, the question then becomes
they sold them in the seven up cars,
but then that, what you call a failure,
sparked the idea while people liked
a special color combination,
and we came back with specials additions.
Well, it goes back to 1970 with the Twister Specials.
That was another one of these flops
for American raceways or whatever,
paced cars for all their planned tracks,
and then they went bankrupt and under,
and it's like, what are we gonna do
with all these 70 Mach ones?
So because Kansas City is a really powerful sales district,
I think Broadway, Ford primarily,
they took them as Twister Specials, you know?
I saw, so...
One of my favorite cars going to this day,
I think they're gonna spark the above.
There are so many special additions, folks,
and we're not gonna get into that today
because right now we're gonna consider ourselves
just with the anniversary cars,
but now we can see that there's a pattern,
and the early pattern was that 1965 to 1984,
they're looking at 64, the introduction of the Mustang.
It was 64 to 84, and that's how they counted anniversaries.
And Mike, we were doing that okay for a while.
Everything was making sense.
Even when I did my second printing of Mustang Dynasty,
I wanted to get the 09 car in there
because it was the 45th anniversary,
and if you recall, Mike, they had that special fender badge,
and I used that as a sticker on my book
to distinguish that with the other cars.
And again, 09, 45th anniversary, that means 64.
But then something happened, Jim,
something happened at Ford,
and someone thought, well, wait a minute,
the Mustang is a 65 Mustang,
so the anniversaries should be changed
to the years on the fives and the tens.
Now, Mike, you claimed to know
there was someone who sent you,
I have a 1964 and a half car that's titled,
but it can't be VIN that way, Mike.
Jim, is there a 1964 and a half VIN number?
No.
Now, I'll tell you something interesting, though.
There were pilot vehicles stamped with a 4S,
as, I mean, they were destroyed,
you know, there was only, I think,
only one surviving pilot car,
but I've seen an inner fender stamped 4F in error.
I wish I could remember where it came from,
but it's, and I think it had a fair lane body serial code.
Oh, wow, that's super early.
Oh, God.
The errored stamps and inner fenders,
I've seen a lot of inner fender VINs
versus the warranty plate on the driver's door.
There were a couple of numbers off.
They were installed in error,
but not to wander off course here,
but there's so many misconceptions out there
based on errors.
Yeah, so there's one about Hart and Perry's car, John, right?
Well, I mean, you mean,
those were prototype, I mean, vehicles, early ones, right?
There are still some.
Hart and Perry lost camps?
Hart, Carl, there's still 65 Mustangs.
Those are, you know.
But I'm wondering how their VINs were,
I never investigated that with them with that, but.
Well, the thing is pre-production units
have an O5C date code, no exceptions.
Pre-production units were all date coded O5C,
which is just a flagged date code.
It doesn't mean they were all built March 5th.
They were built, they were built between January
and March of 64.
But the pre-production cars are just that.
Pre-production units, and again, we're wandering off course,
but each of the pre-production units
has a serial number, a serial number,
a sequence number on the radiator support.
And some people in restoring these cars sanded it off.
They thought it was unsightly,
but it was a hand-written number.
So what you're saying, Jim, there's a myth.
If somebody says they have a car that's VIN'd
as a 64 Mustang, that is a myth.
That's not true.
No, it is not true.
Ford never, never VIN'd a Mustang as a 64.
Okay, so now you can tell that guy
that sent you his title that said he's got a 64.
This was years ago he did this,
but yeah, he sent me a picture of it.
That's a myth, busted, you're busted, sorry.
So that means for years then, Jim, Ford Motor Company said,
64 is when we introduced the 65.
So as an anniversary, when the world,
you know, they call, Mike,
we just talked about National Mustang,
did the birthday of the Mustang is recognized
as the day Leigh Iacocca announced the car April 17th.
And that was in 1964.
So here we are, all these little anniversary specials
all the way up to the 09 car, 1964 to the,
whatever year later on the nines of the fours, I got it.
But Mike, what was wrong with Dave Parasack and his group
that we had a 50th anniversary Mustang as a 2015 VIN?
What happened?
The car we were taking global, right?
So yeah, but we celebrated, if everybody remembers in 2014,
we celebrated the 50 year, its own special logo
that was John put out in 2013.
Remember I had to fly to New York
for the logo unveiling for that.
And that was at the end of 2013 and 2014
was celebrated all year long.
But when the car came out and launched,
the model was a 2015 vehicle.
Okay, so Jim, something happened there.
Now my question to you is I kind of,
I wrote the Mustang 2015 book and I went back
and we were very close to not having a 2015
by April 17th, 2014.
We just, that car, a lot of it couldn't have been
put in the book because Ford didn't want
to allow this information out, but the car
that they was presented that this is going to be
the 2015 Mustang was not well received by upper management.
So it had to come back to Dearborn.
It had to be redesigned.
It got it, you know, it was quite the move.
The wheelbase was changed, the design was changed
and it barely made it to Charlotte and Las Vegas, Mike.
And then as you know, they weren't driving around
on April 17th, 2014, but the car was all vinned as a 2015.
So now, Mr. Smart, we have a 50th anniversary Mustang
from 1965 instead of 1964.
We wanna know in your experience, was that just one
of these marketing things, which I think it was,
or that is that nobody really cares or pays attention?
Well, if memory serves, I think Mustang was the first
model year introduced premature, I say prematurely,
April of 64, nobody was thinking about 65 Fords,
but Mustang was introduced as the 65 Mustang
in April of 64, and I think it was the first
ahead of the model year introduction.
I may be wrong about that.
No, very few, they said that was an Iacocca genius move
because everybody waited till the fall
when the cars arrived at the dealerships
and he just said, World's Fair, New York, huge audience,
way ahead of the game, let's just blow the cover now.
And that maybe was genius,
but look what it's caused all these years later.
Now we're having confusion.
What is the anniversary?
Yeah, even though it's a 65 model year car,
it was introduced in April of 64,
and the way it has needed to stay
is the anniversary needs to be whatever like for 15,
it would be 14, in other words,
trying to think how to make sense out of that.
It would be in the odd number of years,
it wouldn't be the five intents to match up.
But Mike and Jim Smart, I know it's right about that,
and it should have been,
so what we're saying is the 50th anniversary car
should have been in 2014, Mike,
when you were flying all over the country
and we were celebrating this new car,
but as we all know, the S550 is not a 2014, it's a 2050.
So, okay, so we'll get on that.
And that was a problem.
Paris had to pull a rabbit out of his head,
and they had, Raj and Aaron had to change the car,
and that story will come out about why it was changed,
and okay, so we got it.
But then, Mike, 10 years later,
the 60th anniversary Mustang comes,
shows up at your dealership, was that a 2024?
2025.
And John, here's the cool,
I gotta share my fun fact on that.
I don't know if any other salesperson in the country
can say it, I sold one of each of the colors
that they made of that.
2025.
Anniversary cars, yeah.
60th anniversary, whereas if you were Ford Motor Company,
we were being run by Jim Smart,
it would have been a 20,
it would have been a 2024, 60th anniversary of the car.
Rather than, so Jim, you're saying the anniversary
should have been on its birthday, which was 64,
and that's when we celebrate.
Yeah.
Are you saying, Jim, April 17th really
isn't Mustang's birthday?
Please don't say you are.
Is April 17th Mustang's birthday, 1964?
That was the day it was introduced.
I agree.
So how do you agree?
It's April 7th.
It should be on the fours and the nines, right?
So the fours and the nines.
Okay, so all the fours and the nines
should have been the anniversary,
but if you get into these books, you look it up online,
we have Mustangs that are not there
on the fives and the zeros on the tens.
So, Jim, something happened, people want an explanation,
and I think the best way to explain it,
I'll say it in two words.
You ready?
Ford marketing.
Are you familiar with those people?
After 30 years with Ford marketing,
it's just, and Jim, before we got online,
what are we talking about?
Sometimes the continuity of something
as long as Mustang lasting 60 years
is lost on new generations coming into Ford,
doing the marketing, doing the sales,
even doing the engineering,
that there's nobody there that was around in 1964,
and they don't, what happened?
That happens over time.
I mean, I don't want to be an old fart
beating up on the younger people,
but hey, we're all old farts here.
Anyway.
Hey, wait a minute.
Mike.
I'm old, too.
Okay.
How old are you, Mike?
55.
Oh, you're still in diapers.
You're a baby.
I got shoes that are that age.
I got shoes that are older than that,
and all seriousness, though.
It is the continuity over time.
It's like watching these old sitcoms,
and the continuity is terrible,
across a season or seasons.
So it's the same thing with model years.
Nobody has the time to really go back and look at history
the way it's supposed to be.
I'm a historian, so I'm a pain in the butt that way.
I want history reported accurately,
and there's a number of us.
I think of Donald.
Nobody, I don't think anybody's researched Mustangs
like Donald Farr.
I mean, gone to extremes of digging
and produced incredible books,
but that's the kind of history
you want reported accurately.
But, or in the hell as I go on with this,
I really am 70.
No, I agree.
It is the fact that we've gone so long,
and nobody is watching that brand as the Guardian,
because people change, and their backgrounds change,
and what they think is important changes.
Well, even back in the summer of 83,
when I had a nice visit with Edsel,
Ford just wasn't thinking about Mustang history,
because it was just a brand that had been around
for 20 years, but I don't think they understood
at that time how important the name was.
And in the years since, Mustang is Ford's flagship brand,
and I think a one-time Thunderbird was,
but Mustang definitely holds the crown
for being the flagship of Ford Motor Company,
that NF series.
I mean, yeah, the icons, yeah.
So what would you say being that you ran
that local Mustang Club here in Detroit
for all those years, you know what your owners
and members thought?
What would you say on the rank of importance
of someone at Ford making sure
that Mustang's heritage remains pure,
that you stick with, the car has got certain attributes,
it's got a certain heritage,
and you don't just try to change that around after being
an icon, you don't mess with icons.
How important is that, do you think, to your members?
I mean, I don't know, but now that they did change it
for the last two, are they really gonna change it back?
I don't see that happening.
I don't know, I don't think anybody's losing sleep over it,
but you know, everybody definitely has some opinions
for sure of which way it should be celebrated
and which way here is the true first year of Mustang.
Well, so Jim, now we got the purists,
and I would consider, sorry,
I would consider you Jim Smart as a purist.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
So then there were people that went,
when the Mach E came out, they figured,
well, you can't get the toothpaste back in the tube now,
you've put that poll in the tube.
Oh boy, don't bring the Mach E up.
I know, and then now we're hearing talk,
we just heard Mike Robert Kennedy talk about,
well, if we had an S650 and it had four doors on it,
I'd live with that, people who liked the Dodge Charger,
not the one that chased the bullet down,
but they grew two doors on it,
and they're selling, but Jesus out of them,
because it's on a common platform, it's cheap,
and so maybe there is a marketing reason, Jim,
to sell a four door Mustang,
but how much changing the anniversary years
or changing the purity of what the car is
goes towards ruining the icon or keeping it going?
Well, they definitely need to stick with 64 to the current.
They need to stick with that, get back to it,
but as far as what Mustang should be,
I think the market for a really a two-place,
four-place pony car,
I feel like the pony car market is beginning to subside
because what people want changes,
and Mustang has had a good run for over,
what, 62 years now, let me, yeah, that's...
Well, it depends how you look at it, right?
Wasn't 26, it was 64,
but maybe it's only 63 years.
Right, right, right, right.
Well, but the Mach-E is giving the pony car a run
for the money.
I mean, I'm not thrilled with the idea of Mach-E
because I'm a purist, but a four door Mustang,
like the four door charger,
I'm trying to think of GM has anything like that going on,
but a sporty four door sedan called Mustang
with all the Mustang nuances isn't a bad idea
because people need a car with more room,
more space in it.
Yeah, but on the S650 chassis, a lot of people,
Mike, I'm talking longtime club members that I've known,
I'm talking longtime Mustang fans and purists
that own several Mustangs are not bothered
with a four door on an S650 as much as they were bothered
on a Mustang badge on an SUV.
Let me interject this right now as a thinking point
is that Ford only produces Mustang as a car.
There is no other car in the Ford lineup at all
besides Mustang.
So there's no more tourists, there's no more fusions
or focuses or fiestas, it's only Mustang.
And a lot of people still do not realize it.
I have people come in all the time, can I get a fusion?
Mike, they don't make them anymore.
And they're like, what cars do they make?
Mustang only, I mean, so a four door in that lineup
might hit some people that that's what they're looking for
for their family car.
See, that's why we brought Jim on.
He very pithily said, well, maybe that's something
that's it's who we're evolving into.
Jim, as a purist, as a historian, for you to say that,
it shows that you really are very progressive
when you think about modern Mustang.
I'm proud of you, Mr. Smart.
Well, thank you, I appreciate that very much.
The thing to remember is Mustang is a two door pony car,
has had a hellacious run, only exceeded by, I think, Corvette.
Except for, really, because Corvette didn't produce an 83.
They missed that one year.
They had to work, they had to start over again really fast.
That broke their little streak if you wanted to, yeah.
I gotta tell you something publicly.
Okay.
They built like 583 vets that look like 84s.
One of them survives and was stuffed in the back
of the bowling green plant under a tarp or whatever
for years, and somebody found it.
There was one surviving 83 vet.
But I heard it in the sinkhole that opened up
and it went swallowed up and went back to hell.
About Jim too, was that a prototype?
Because it wasn't a production car for sale, correct?
It was actually a product, I mean,
I'm not a Corvette authority nap.
No, none of us would be on this show if we were.
I forget where I learned this,
that there's one surviving 83 vet
and they built like five of them, something like that.
I mean, I don't know the whole story.
You'll have to go to your Corvette history book.
Yeah, John, I would think there was only
PP cars or something though.
I mean, they weren't actual production models.
Yeah, I'm still being that we're all purists here.
I think Jim's right to say that this car
has had around like no other.
So Jim, we want to set it straight.
We're going to say right now, Mike, let's announce it.
If Ford is going to do a 65th anniversary,
it's got to be based on the 65,
and it's got to come out in 2029, not in 2030.
And you heard it here first
on the Mustang owners podcast
from none other than Jim Smart.
Jim, thank you so much for offering your perspective tonight
on the Mustang owners podcast.
It is a pleasure to be here
and I'm always glad to come back and, you know.
Stir the pot.
Yeah, we got a lot in the bucket
for to talk over with Jim, don't we?
Yeah, we do.
Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that little walk
on what the heck happened with the anniversaries
of the 04s and 09s or the 5s and 10s.
We think we got it solved.
We're looking forward to that 65th anniversary
and from 1965 in 2029, Ford, are you listening?
And that's because you heard it here first
on the Mustang owners podcast.
Again, thanks, Jim, Mike.
It's always great.
I hope you guys enjoyed it.
Next time, make sure you hit that like and subscribe button
if you like this kind of content
so we can beat that YouTube algorithm
as we're closing in on our record-breaking subscriptions.
Let's make it happen and don't forget to pick up
your Mustang owners podcast apparel.
Mike, you're looking smart.
Yeah, we'll have to get that over to Jim as well.
So until next time, folks,
we'll just have to catch you down the road.
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About this episode
Jim Smart and the hosts untangle Mustang’s anniversary confusion by separating model-year convention from launch timing. They reject the idea of a true 1964 VIN, note that Mustang debuted as a 1965 model in April 1964, and argue Ford’s anniversary math has been inconsistent ever since. The conversation also revisits the 20th and 25th anniversary cars, including the repurposed 7-Up specials, before landing on how Ford should handle a future 65th anniversary.
When Mustang celebrated its 60 th birthday with a special Anniversary Edition model for 2025, John and Mike fielded an email that asked why Ford counted the 60 years from 1965, just the way the company counted it for the 50th anniversary. First, it just seemed logical since first- generation Mustangs were all 1965 models. But when you consider that all previous Mustang Anniversary cars were counted from 1964 – the year that Mustang was introduced to the general public – it begs the question, Why the change? From that first Mustang 20 th Anniversary model back in 1984 all the way through the 45 th Anniversary Edition in 2009, the start date had been 1964. So John and Mike decided to “Get Smart” – as in reaching out to longtime Mustang author and expert Jim Smart – to help figure out which date is correct. Listen in as Jim and the guys explore some possible answers, and reveal Jim’s claim that he may have influenced the whole “Anniversary Car” idea that spawned the 1984 Mustang GT350 20 th Anniversary model.
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