Gilad Haas, co-founder of ShadowLion, breaks down how he went from film school in Boston to sports storytelling with athletes like Julian Edelman and Tom Brady. He explains ShadowLion’s origin—capturing intimate, efficient content for Brady’s TB12 world—and then zooms into “All In,” a real-time digital doc series built with Fox Sports for IndyCar. Haas compares NFL athlete production dynamics to drivers’ more collective, sport-growing mindset, shares what surprised him about IndyCar’s speed and danger, and outlines the 12-episode, rapid-turnaround plan leading into the Indy 500.
Hinch sits down with Gilad Haas to learn about his journey in entertainment and sports, how he went from a film school kid to co-founding Shadow Lion with Tom Brady, and what he's now working on in IndyCar.
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"So you mentioned Brady, that kind of segues nicely into Shadow Lion, which is a production company he's involved in. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the company, how it formed, kind of where it stands?"
Shadow Lion is a company that helps make videos and stories. In this segment, they talk about how it was created to produce content more directly for Tom’s projects.
Shadow Lion is a production company mentioned as being involved with Tom and his partners. The hosts discuss how it was formed and how it’s used to bring more storytelling in-house, including documentary-style content.
"Tom wanted to bring a little bit more of the storytelling in-house and he had everything from his TB12 business and other owned and operated businesses. And he wanted to tell stories about, you know, what he was learning through his training methods, etc. or TB12 and how it was impacting all these other people..."
TB12 is referenced as Tom’s business that provides a foundation for the storytelling Shadow Lion wants to do. The discussion ties TB12 to training methods and how those methods impact other people.
Topic
Tom vs. Time
"You know, we were shooting Tom vs. Time, his docuseries, and he didn't want to have a full film crew around him in the house and all these intimate moments."
“Tom vs. Time” is a documentary-style series. They’re saying it was filmed in a way that felt more personal, without a big crew taking over the space.
“Tom vs. Time” is described as Tom’s docuseries. The hosts explain that the production approach avoided a large film crew in the house to capture intimate moments more naturally.
"And so that was an opportunity to, you know, have me and a shotgun mic kind of thing and capturing some of that, you know, that intimate footage without feeling like a full production."
A shotgun mic is a microphone that focuses on the sound right in front of it. They used it so they could record close, personal moments without bringing in a huge production setup.
A shotgun mic is a directional microphone designed to pick up sound from a specific area while reducing background noise. In the segment, it’s used to capture intimate footage without the feel of a full film production.
"And everybody knows or at least anyone who played Madden knows about the Madden curse. And so we... I was going to say, I got to just interject here."
The “Madden curse” is a superstition people talk about when a player is on the cover of the Madden game. They’re bringing it up because Tom was on the cover for the first time.
The “Madden curse” is a popular sports superstition tied to the EA Sports Madden video game cover athlete. The hosts mention it in the context of Tom being on the cover for the first time at age 40.
Concept
real time basis
"kind of stories on a real time basis, you know, as the season's going on versus waiting, you know, until maybe the season's wrapped, etc."
They’re talking about making and releasing stories while the season is still going. That way, fans learn what’s happening and why right away, instead of waiting until everything is over.
The hosts are describing a “real-time” storytelling approach—publishing content as the season unfolds instead of waiting until after it ends. In motorsport coverage, this changes how fans follow strategy decisions, team communication, and driver progress because the narrative is tied to events as they happen.
Concept
locked in dialed team
"You really just got to have a locked in dialed team. And the same way, you know, there's so many apples to apples comparisons with the sport we talk about all the time internally, like you're watching the pit crew..."
They’re saying the best teams are fully focused and working together smoothly. In racing, that matters because everyone has to do their job at the right time, and communication has to be on point.
“Locked in dialed team” describes a high-coordination team state—everyone aligned on goals, roles, and communication. In motorsport, that kind of synchronization is crucial because small timing or communication errors can cascade into slower pit stops, worse tire management, or missed strategic opportunities.
Concept
apples to apples comparisons
"And the same way, you know, there's so many apples to apples comparisons with the sport we talk about all the time internally, like you're watching the pit crew..."
They mean they’re comparing similar things across different sports. The idea is that winning usually comes from teamwork and good communication, not just one person.
The hosts use “apples to apples comparisons” to mean they’re mapping similar success factors across sports—team coordination, communication, and execution. In motorsport terms, this frames racing as an operational team sport, not just a driver skill contest.
"like you're watching the pit crew, you're watching the strategists, you're watching the driver, like the teams that win are always just in the, you know, in sync, right?"
“Strategists” refers to the people who make race strategy decisions—when to pit, how to manage tires/fuel, and how to respond to track position. In motorsport storytelling, highlighting strategists helps viewers understand that racing isn’t only about driving; it’s also about planning and communication.
"like you're watching the pit crew, you're watching the strategists, you're watching the driver, like the teams that win are always just in the, you know, in sync, right?"
The transcript references the pit crew as part of the “apples to apples” comparisons to motorsport coverage. A pit crew is central to race outcomes because it handles fast, coordinated service work during race stops, and it’s a key part of what fans watch and learn from.
"Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on eBay where I go for all kinds of things I love, ... Oh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? eBay has all the parts that fit my car."
eBay is a website where individuals and stores sell things to each other. The host is saying you can find rare items and even car parts there.
eBay is an online marketplace where people buy and sell used or hard-to-find items. In this segment, it’s used as an example of where the host finds car-related parts and niche collectibles.
"And now everyone's asking, "Oh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? eBay has all the parts that fit my car.""
Windshield wipers are the rubber-bladed arms that clear rain, snow, and road grime from your windshield. Wiper blades are typically sold by fitment (vehicle make/model/year), which is why the host mentions finding “parts that fit my car.”
"So what have you found, Lena, what are some of the bigger similarities or, I guess more importantly, differences you've found between working with professional football players versus now race car drivers?"
They’re talking about how working with race car drivers is different from working with football players. It’s basically comparing what each job demands and how the people approach it.
The hosts shift into comparing how working with NFL players differs from working with race car drivers. This is a discussion about the contrast in training, mindset, and day-to-day demands between two very different sports.
"and then they're being recruited for college and then they were going into the NFL draft. So there's always been, access is challenging, right?"
The NFL draft is when football teams pick new players to join the league. The speaker brings it up to compare how different sports careers start and how much attention athletes get early on.
The NFL draft is mentioned as part of the comparison between athlete career paths and motorsports careers. It helps frame how athletes are “recruited” and how public-facing expectations can shape opportunities.
"So it is a bit of a different approach. I'm curious if you had any Indy car or motorsports interest or fandom"
“Indy car” means the kind of racing you see in the IndyCar Series in the U.S. It’s a major open-wheel racing league, with cars built for speed on tracks like ovals and road courses.
“Indy car” usually refers to open-wheel racing in the IndyCar Series, which is distinct from NASCAR and from Formula 1. It’s a top-level American road-and-oval racing environment where drivers compete in highly engineered race cars and teams manage development across the season.
"...familiar with the big races and Indy 500 and things like that... Was it the Indy 500? Was it 68 when they had the big crash?"
The Indy 500 is one of the biggest races in American motorsports. It’s famous for being long, fast, and for having a long history.
The Indy 500 (Indianapolis 500) is the most famous race in IndyCar, held at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It’s a long-standing event with a huge legacy, and it’s often used as a reference point when discussing the sport’s history and risk.
"...trying to find that extra 0.1% margin here or there to do it."
In racing, even very small improvements can make a big difference. The “0.1%” idea means the teams and drivers chase tiny advantages that add up.
“0.1% margin” is a way of describing how tiny performance differences can matter in racing. At elite levels, small gains in setup, driving technique, and strategy can translate into meaningful position changes over a whole race.
"...just because F1 was so well globally known that it was just a harder bigger stage... Indy car is way more dangerous..."
F1 is the most famous kind of open-wheel racing in the world. The host is comparing what they thought F1 was like versus what they learned about IndyCar.
F1 is shorthand for Formula 1, the top tier of open-wheel racing in Europe and globally. The speaker contrasts F1’s global fame and “stage” with what they learned about IndyCar’s speed and danger.
Concept
fastest racing league
"...I didn't realize it's the fastest racing league that exists, right?... But to me, I think that was really interesting."
The claim that IndyCar is the “fastest racing league” is about average speed and/or top speeds relative to other major series. It highlights how different racing categories can measure “fast” differently (speed, lap times, or overall race pace).
Topic
big crash
"...I was watching, I forget the year, was it the Indy 500? Was it 68 when they had the big crash?"
The “big crash” reference points to a historically significant Indy 500 incident (the speaker mentions “68”). In motorsports, major crashes often change safety practices, car design priorities, and how teams prepare for risk.
"Again, very motivating and aspiring for us because we're not, we're not going 175 miles per hour while we're making this film and trying to do our job. So, you know."
They’re talking about how fast these race cars are going—around 175 mph. At speeds like that, the car is very sensitive, so tiny things can matter a lot for control and safety.
“175 miles per hour” is an example of the extreme speeds involved in open-wheel racing. At that kind of speed, small changes in aerodynamics, tire grip, and driver inputs can have outsized effects on stability and safety.
Term
flat lowering
"Yeah, James pointed out that we probably make too many jokes about the time that he died a little bit on a racetrack. Like only just a bit. Like we're just over the line a little bit over the flat lowering."
“Flat lowering” sounds like they’re talking about making the car sit lower or feel flatter for better handling. In racing, changing ride height can change how stable the car feels at high speed.
“Flat lowering” appears to refer to a low, flattened aerodynamic or suspension setup—often discussed in racing as lowering the car to improve stability and reduce drag. In motorsport, ride height and aero balance are tightly linked, so setup changes can affect how the car behaves at speed.
"...like you look at him winning in Long Beach and what he's doing, shaping up to do this year..."
Long Beach is a famous race event in California. It’s known for being on city streets, so it’s a different kind of challenge than a typical track.
Long Beach refers to the Long Beach Grand Prix, a well-known motorsport event held in Long Beach, California. In racing talk, it’s often used as shorthand for the race weekend and the kind of street-circuit competition it represents.
"...it's the Super Bowl of the sport. And we want to tell a little bit of the history of it..."
They’re using a comparison to the Super Bowl to say this is the biggest, most important event in that racing world. It’s where everyone’s watching.
“Super Bowl of the sport” is a metaphor comparing the event’s importance to the NFL’s biggest game. It signals that the series or race being discussed is a major, high-attention moment where performance and storylines matter most.
"...one wants to miss the, the Super Bowl, you know, if you can be there. Right. The only, the only 500 I missed was after my, my daughter was born..."
“The 500” is a nickname for a famous Indy race. It’s a big deal and happens every year, so missing it is notable.
“The 500” almost certainly refers to the Indianapolis 500, one of the most prestigious races in American motorsport. The discussion frames it as an event people try to attend, and it’s treated as a recurring annual milestone.
"you know, format shows rather than a, you know, a drive to survive or whatever that comes out six months later and can editorially make all the decisions after the fact."
They’re comparing two styles of racing documentaries: one that can wait and edit after the season, versus one that has to move quickly. The point is that speed changes how much you can plan ahead.
“Drive to Survive” is referenced as a contrast to faster turnaround motorsports formats. The key idea is that some racing doc series can wait for later editorial decisions, while a quicker format has less time to plan.
"having internal conversations with our show runners and the creative team and Fox and Penske and IndyCar, et cetera, just always around,"
Penske is a well-known racing organization. When they’re mentioned with IndyCar, it usually means they’re connected to the teams/people who can help make the show possible.
Penske is referenced alongside Fox and IndyCar, implying involvement from the Penske organization in the storytelling or access. In motorsports, Penske is closely tied to IndyCar operations, so it often has relationships that can affect what footage or interviews are possible.
"having internal conversations with our show runners and the creative team and Fox and Penske and IndyCar, et cetera, just always around,"
Fox is a major TV network involved in getting the show made and aired. Mentioning it helps you understand the show has big-media backing.
Fox is mentioned as part of the production/distribution ecosystem for the show. For listeners, it signals mainstream broadcast involvement rather than a niche motorsports channel.
"And so that's part of the matrix of doing real time storytelling is, you know, you don't get to just get it all in the can get it all shot and then get into a post production room and, you know, spend months kind of planning out each story beat in each episode."
It means they’re making the show fast enough that the story can change as events happen. Instead of filming everything and editing later with full certainty, they adjust the episode plan based on what’s going on right now.
“Real time storytelling” here means producing episodes quickly while events are still unfolding, so the narrative has to adapt week to week. In motorsports coverage, that usually depends on when teams, drivers, and venues grant access and what’s happening on track.
"... team and McLaren's good there. I'm putting in my dark horse right now, Ryan Hunter Ray. But Gila, thank you ..."
The Ford Mustang is a sports car made by Ford. It’s designed to be fun to drive, with a strong engine and a sporty look. People talk about it a lot because it’s a well-known model with many versions.
The Ford Mustang is a long-running American sports car known for its classic styling and performance-focused driving feel. It’s often discussed in car podcasts because it represents a major, mainstream performance platform with many different engine and trim options over the years. In a conversation, it can come up as a recognizable benchmark for what “muscle” and everyday usability look like in one package.
"You can check out All In on YouTube, on IndyCar's YouTube, Fox Sports YouTube. It'll be broadcasting Linear 2 in the next couple months as well, which we're excited about."
“All In” is the name of the show they’re promoting. They’re telling you where to watch it, including YouTube and a TV broadcast.
“All In” appears to be the show/series being promoted, tied to IndyCar coverage and storytelling. The segment is about media distribution (YouTube, Fox Sports, and a Linear 2 broadcast), not about vehicle technology.
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This is Off-Track.
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Off-Track with Hinch or Rossi. It is Tuesday,
so it's just going to be one of us. I don't know where Alex is. I assume he's doing something
busy himself. Simulator, maybe. I'm going to embed Sim. I'm going to assume the simulator.
I'm going to say Sim. So, we don't have him, which is great, because instead we have a guest
on the show this week. We are very happy to welcome Gilad Haas, the co-founder of ShadowLion,
which is the production company behind this new all-in digital series that you are seeing online.
First of all, thank you so much for joining us.
Honored to be here stoked. This is going to be a lot of fun.
So, you were telling me that you're based in Boston. Is that right?
Based in Boston from the area. So, didn't have to go too far.
Born and raised, yeah.
Very good. Very good. And so, how did you get into the film industry? What's a bit of your
background and how you ended up where you are now?
Totally, yeah. For me, I never particularly loved school or was an excellent student,
but given any opportunity to, if a teacher signed a project and it was like, hey,
you can write a paper or you can make a video or make a poster board or something,
I would always elect to make the video. And I just found myself, you know,
staying up all to the night, working on the video, editing it, etc.
Not because it was due the next day, just because I was enjoying the process.
And I thought it was worthwhile to pursue something I enjoyed.
And so, I ended up going to film school at Emerson College in Boston as well,
which is a kind of visual media arts school. So, I went there and studied cinematography and
filmmaking and, you know, wanted to make movies, etc. And ended up kind of finding my way into
everything from, you know, long-form sports content, like all in, all the way through
advertising and commercial work and, you know, working with a lot of talent as well.
I feel like a lot of people that go to film school, you know, have to find work outside of film.
So, yeah. He said this from experience because he also went to film school.
Yeah, I was going to get there and just say, like, you're an example of a film
school grad who then quickly got into working in film and digital media.
So, how'd you do the second part?
Yeah, it's actually like, I'm still in touch with Emerson and every once in a while,
like, I feel like there's a missing opportunity at film school to teach students how to make a
career out of the skills they learn going to film school. But I was just really focused,
you know, while I was in college, I was working. So, I was doing everything from,
you know, club promoting videos for night, you know, DJs and whatnot who were coming to,
you know, videos for hotels or restaurants or IT companies or, you know, you kind of name it.
And just through that process, I was just honing my skills. And really what I was doing was,
you know, trying to make a couple bucks, you know, I wanted to buy a camera that I could shoot with.
So, I wanted to go work and, you know, make some money to be able to afford that camera.
And it just kind of, I was lucky that when I finished college, I just had a portfolio because
I was doing that throughout, you know, my four years at school. And so, I had a little bit of
work that, you know, showed I could do some brand storytelling. I could work with talent,
etc. And then I just got, you know, some lucky breaks and connections. I think that's the kind
of perfect, you know, success is luck plus timing and opportunity meeting together.
So, that definitely worked out for me. And I was fortunate soon after college,
I got introduced to Julian Edelman and his, you know, he had a small kind of agency at the time
and was, you know, just starting to play really well in the field as well. And so,
I was able to work with Julian, for Julian, support him with all this social media content,
his branded commercial content, etc. And that was really my first exposure to,
you know, truly working within like the advertising industry and working with talent,
like Julian and social media work and things like that. But that was kind of my process through
college, post college, etc. And obviously, I haven't left sports storytelling since.
So, when you're in college and you're doing these gigs for DJs, for hotels, whatever,
are you out there like pitching them like, hey, you know, you need is one of these things and I
can do that for you. Exactly. I was like the, I was trying to master the cold email, if you will,
you know, I was just sending out a cold email. I would just be, you know, googling all day long
restaurants, you know, hotels, etc. Try and find the best point of contact at those places,
the marketing, you know, communications department, etc. I'd shoot him an email. Hey,
this is who I am. I created a website for myself. You know, I had a little bit of like,
this is why video and this is going back to, you know, 2013 through 2015 kind of area. And so,
you know, video and social and digital and all of that was really rising. And so, you know,
at that point, I was really just saying, hey, you need video, you know, as part of your SEO,
as part of your just approach to marketing. And, you know, I was a more affordable option than
going out and hiring a full agency or production company or anything. So, you know, most of the
time I'd get a no or no answer at all. And then every once in a while, I'd, you know, get the
bite for a follow up conversation. And, you know, all it takes is sometimes one yes. And,
and then you get the opportunity to go prove that you can do it and hopefully find more
opportunities to do it beyond that. So, so Tim, there's your answer. He just tried.
Have you, have you thought about that? No, see, that's where that's, I caught it. I
saw the difference right there. Yeah, it was the work ethic. I was hoping it was something else.
Like the, any effort at all, like any capacity, I think would have helped your cause.
So, born and raised in Boston, school out there, obviously you've got some great connections,
some opportunities, you know, you meet Edelman, well, he's obviously playing over there.
Was there ever a thought of, of coming to the West coast? I mean, I feel like you don't really
think if, if you're in film, you're thinking you want to be in film, that's kind of the,
the move, right? Or you just have so much opportunity out East. It was never a need to move.
So I did my last semester at Emerson in LA because they just opened up the campus there.
And it was my very last semester. A lot of my friends out there didn't even go back to Boston
for graduation. They just stayed in, in LA and tried to start working in the industry. And,
and I kind of just said to myself, I'm going to, I'm going to give myself a year going back to
Boston. You know, I had, I had some success in the freelance kind of world and working with,
you know, B2B kind of corporate content. And so I said, I'm going to give myself a year,
I'm going to go back to Boston, my whole family is out here, et cetera. And so
I came back and I was fortunate within that first year I was able to do good work and get
connected to Julian. And, you know, I had a good reason to stick around Boston,
obviously after that too, and being able to work for Tom Brady. So that was good enough reason for,
for me to, you know, obviously stay in Boston. And now I'm fortunate that, you know, work brings
me all over the world. And so, you know, I don't feel like I've missed anything staying in Boston,
even though it isn't the entertainment capital of the world. But I am a big believer in like,
whenever I give an opportunity, I talk with students a decent amount, like I'm a big believer of
get on the plane, you know, get out there, meet people face to face and develop those
relationships. And I would do that throughout, you know, the last 10 years, whether I was,
you know, because you just can't do that if you're in a place like Boston.
Right, right. So you mentioned Brady, that kind of segues nicely into Shadow Lion,
which is a production company he's involved in. Why don't you tell us a little bit about
that relationship, the company, how it formed, kind of where it stands?
Yeah, for sure. So I was fortunate after, you know, working for Julian for about a year plus.
I got introduced to Tom and my partners now in Shadow Lion, Tom, his longtime business
manager, Ben Rowitz and my day-to-day partner, Jeff Fine, who's working for Tom and Ben at the time.
You know, they had seen a little bit of what I was doing just on Julian social and, you know,
Tom wanted to bring a little bit more of the storytelling in-house and he had everything
from his TB12 business and other owned and operated businesses. And he wanted to tell stories about,
you know, what he was learning through his training methods, etc. or TB12 and how it was
impacting all these other people who were going to the spaces. So that was kind of the catalyst to
bringing me in. And then there was, it just kind of went from there. You know, we were shooting
Tom vs. Time, his docuseries, and he didn't want to have a full film crew around him in the house
and all these intimate moments. And so that was an opportunity to, you know, have me and a shotgun
mic kind of thing and capturing some of that, you know, that intimate footage without feeling
like a full production. But, you know, a good story is Tom was on the cover of Madden 2018.
It was his first time on the cover. He was turning 40 going into that season. So here's, you know,
40 year old quarterback, first time on Madden. And everybody knows or at least anyone who played
Madden knows about the Madden curse. And so we... I was going to say, I got to just interject here.
How was that the first time he was on the cover of Madden at 40 when he's already accomplished
everything that he had? That's insane. Yeah, it's crazy. And I didn't even realize at the time too,
just being a fan of his, I was like, oh, surely he's been on previous covers, but he hadn't. And so
it was, you know, we had gotten the opportunity to kind of make some launch content to announce him
on the cover. EA let us kind of tackle the Madden curse for the first time. They hadn't really
let anyone else do that. And so we kind of put Tom in this big plastic bubble and made fun of,
you know, the fact that the 40 year old quarterback is going to be the guy to break
the Madden curse. And sure enough, he did. He didn't, you know, he stayed on the field,
had one of the best Super Bowl performances ever that year.
Didn't you guys film that in like 45 minutes or some like ridiculously short amount of time?
Exactly. So, you know, we had 45 minutes with him. We got two pieces of content that came out of
that. They both became his, you know, highest engaging content of all time. And then granted,
he was still new to social at that period. But, you know, it definitely was a light bulb,
I think for him that, you know, I can produce good, good content in, you know, 45 minutes versus
sometimes being on set for four to eight hours. And so Tom sat us down and said, Hey, let's start
a business around this so we can try to, you know, make my time on task as efficient as possible,
but also make the content as fun and authentic as possible. And that was a catalyst to
Shadowline starting. And we thought it was going to be kind of a placeholder name for them,
for the, that, that beginning period. But it just,
I was going to ask where the name came from. Yeah.
Yeah. It was one of our favorite interviews. Jeff, my partner, I mentioned earlier and I,
you know, we made so many hype videos for Tom over the years. So we had listened to kind of
every single interview Tom had, had ever done, you know, so many times. And there was just really
kind of underrated one that he did that was just really grainy kind of, you know, bad audio where
he was on a, he was, he was calling in on a phone call and the journalist asked him, you know,
what's it like to be this alpha male, this king of the jungle lion kind of figure.
And Tom responded, you know, I don't really think of myself like that. I think of myself as the
shadow of the lion where I can step on the field and then like really allow myself to be my true
self and let it rip. And we just thought that there was something fun there around, you know,
the obvious being in the shadows behind people like Tom and supporting them with storytelling
and content, but also, you know, the idea that what we can do through storytelling is show people,
you know, who they show the audiences who people really are just through good storytelling. And,
you know, it's something we're also bringing to all in indie here, right? Wanting to showcase
these drivers and at home with their families, et cetera. So it's still very much a core part
of our DNA and wanting to, you know, create platforms for people to showcase, you know,
their true selves. Again, beautifully, beautifully pivoting now into all in, but just, I just kind
of really quickly want to touch on, on something you said and then part of that story because,
you know, I'm not Tom Brady, I've never had that amount of demands on my time, but I can tell you
as someone that's had to film a lot of stuff in my life, when somebody can execute efficiently like
that, what that means to the person is, is I like, you did one shoe with them that you did well and
quickly and efficiently. And he said, let's start a business together. It wasn't like a high five
and a thank you, which would have been cool enough from Tom Brady. It's like, let's work. I love what
you do. So just for anybody that's in this line of work that's looking to progress as someone that's
been on the, you know, that side of things, I can tell you, when I walk into a set or a production
and it's like, it's efficient, it's knockout, it's not sitting around, it's not wasting time. The,
the amount of value that has to people is, is massive. Yeah, totally. And look, especially
for athletes, like the time is a real currency for you guys, right? And like you only have so much
of it to give and focus and is everything and the margin of difference between winning or losing,
especially in, in Indy. So it's, you know, anytime where we can protect that, you know,
time for people, you know, seems to be really valued and, and I can appreciate why.
Yeah. All right. So all in, how did this, how did this opportunity come across your desk? And
yeah, like, well, let's just start there. How like, you know, obviously we've had a show before,
we have pivoted, just doing a little bit differently. It's shorter form. It's, it's digital.
But how did, how did the all in project come to you?
Yeah. So even just to take a quick step back, we, we first did all in with the Boston Celtics back
in 2024 when they won their, their, the championship. And so that was the first time we created kind of
this, you know, franchise, if you will, all in. And the goal was really to do this real time
doc series storytelling during pivotal moments of the season. And, you know, for that, for them,
it was obviously that playoff run. We released five episodes in a span of eight weeks.
Each episode came out after each round of the playoffs. So they won round one,
we would drop an episode within a couple of days, etc., etc. And it ended up kind of,
you know, really taking on a life of its own. It did a billion impressions versus the 400 million.
We had kind of projected. So, you know, it kind of proved that there's a real appetite from sports
fans to consume this content and this storytelling while it's happening versus sometimes waiting,
you know, months, etc., after the thing has concluded, you kind of know the end of the story.
And now you're watching it back kind of retroactively versus in real time. And so that was
really kind of our whole approach. We're not the first ones to do this. Obviously,
right. You think of like hard knocks, etc. And so well, right. 24 seven fight night back in the day,
you know, that those things were amazing. And I was a huge fan of those just as,
you know, someone who loves to consume sports storytelling and content. So we really just
wanted to kind of bring that back. And then we were fortunate, you know, we're partners with Fox
Sports and enable, you know, and supporting them through a bunch of content and creative needs.
And, you know, we were talking to them and we talked about this idea of all in and kind of
doing real time storytelling. I think, you know, there's definitely more of a focus on digital
content distribution and how to leverage platforms like YouTube and the social media apps. And so,
you know, we just kind of decided to be awesome to dive in here on indie and be able to tell those
kind of stories on a real time basis, you know, as the season's going on versus waiting, you know,
until maybe the season's wrapped, etc. Because it also allows us to kind of take a storytelling
approach to like really hone in and tell specific drivers' stories as it's unfolding that theoretically
can also bring in audiences who can start to care about the sport in a different way because now
they're learning about these characters. They're seeing them at home that they're in their home
environments. They're seeing everything they put into trying to win and then they can actually
watch them go out and compete, you know, versus kind of having to wait for that to start up again.
And so that was really the hypothesis and that we wanted to build an awesome team around this.
We brought in show runners Matt Maxon and Ryan Lois who have been, you know, really excellent,
really immersed themselves within the sport, with the drivers, with all the principles and,
you know, are at all of these races and are capturing really beautiful
content and footage, etc. And they've done an excellent job alongside Ben Stone, our lead editor
who's been a fantastic editor and, you know, shaping the story in each episode. And you can
imagine just turning these things around quickly in real time. You really just got to have a locked
in dialed team. And the same way, you know, there's so many apples to apples comparisons with the
sport we talk about all the time internally, like you're watching the pit crew, you're watching
the strategists, you're watching the driver, like the teams that win are always just in the,
you know, in sync, right? And they're working together and everyone, you know, has open and
honest communication. And so we're always inspired by the principles and the people we're filming.
And then we try to implement that same process, you know, within the film production
side of things, which is also where I've benefited a lot from seeing someone like Tom Brady work
over the years. Like we want to implement as much as we can on what creates success on the field,
on the course, etc., you know, into storytelling and content. So anyways,
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So what have you found, Lena, what are some of the bigger similarities or, I guess more
importantly, differences you've found between working with professional football players
versus now race car drivers? Yeah, how do I say this diplomatically, I suppose.
You don't have to. Yeah, look, I think the NFL players for a long time, I think,
I hesitate to use the word, it's a little hyperbolic, but there's a little bit of
like coddling, I think, that goes around for some of these athletes who at every step of their
athletic journey, they were the most coveted person when they were in high school and then
they're being recruited for college and then they were going into the NFL draft. So there's always
been, access is challenging, right? And then they have teams around them and managers and agents,
et cetera. And so that can create challenges. And I think one of the things that's been awesome
and refreshing really working with a lot of the drivers is they're as invested in growing the
sport as they are growing their personal profiles as they are winning, right? And I think that that
has really unlocked the opportunity to be in environments we wouldn't ordinarily be able to,
obviously having the partnership with Fox and it coming from them is super helpful as the
broadcast partner. But I think just really being able to be with these guys as humans
and see how they operate. And I think that's why they come across so great in the episodes is
because they're just really them. And I think that's been a definite difference in working with
whether it's NFL or NBA, et cetera, is just really like the collective approach to wanting to grow
the sport together versus the kind of individualism, if you will. Yeah, it's funny, man, because
we've heard things like that before from other people, whether it's, I mean, anything journalists
or companies that have sponsored athletes in different realms, whatever, certainly on production
side as well. Drivers are so, it's such a different sport because your whole career,
you're selling yourself, right? Like to get the money to go racing, you have to be available
and outgoing and well spoken and all these things. You can be talented as hell, but guess what?
If you suck at talking to people, there's another talented as hell driver over here that's great
at talking to people. And oh, if you're both good, but you're more fun to be with or you're better
at this, we're going to go with you. So we almost have the exact opposite. We're not coddled our
whole careers. We are scrapping and fighting and trying to get where we need to go. So it is a bit
of a different approach. I'm curious if you had any Indy car or motorsports interest or fandom
before this opportunity came along? To be honest with you, I didn't have too much. I was obviously
familiar with the big races and Indy 500 and things like that, but it's been really awesome
to learn about the sport in the most granular way. And again, as I was kind of saying earlier,
I'd always try to find inspiration wherever I can find it and just how to be better and
being able to see some of the, I haven't been at the actual paddock. So being able to see the
footage from the races and some of the behind the scenes stuff, it's just always inspiring to see
people motivated to be great and trying to find that extra 0.1% margin here or there to do it.
And so I think that's been really eye-opening, but also just like,
I think I came in with this kind of colloquial understanding that just because F1 was so well
globally known that it was just a harder bigger stage, et cetera. And I've learned so much about
it. Indy car is way more dangerous. You guys are going faster. And so it's like, I think there are
elements that just make it super unique and we want to try to get some of those things out there.
So people are aware of it, but I certainly didn't have too much going into it and have
done a crash course on it since. And yeah, man, just been really fun immersing ourselves into the
sport. What's been one of the most eye-opening things? What's something you've learned that
you just had no idea about Indy car? I had no idea that, I guess going back to what I just said,
I didn't realize it's the fastest racing league that exists, right? Again, I think you automatically
assume or assign that to the league or the one that's the most well known. But to me, I think
that was really interesting. And going back even I was watching, I forget the year, was it the Indy
500? Was it 68 when they had the big crash? And I was watching back and I was watching like the
old granular footage from that. And also just seeing like how long this thing has been going.
Like even seeing the way they shot that race is, you know, someone on film, they missed the actual
crash because the person was filming something else. You can only have so many cameras and they
turn and then you start to see all the smoke. So I think really learning one like the legacy of
the sport, how long it's been around, I think understanding the danger of the sport has been
really interesting to learn. Like the McLaughlin episode that we just did, like that crash he had
and qualifiers and then seeing the reaction from his wife and his family and even from him,
just as he's going into the wall and he's holding his head and you can kind of, he says, the first
thing I think of when I got out is, you know, my wife and my daughter and like those are things
you just don't think about as much when you just think of them as athletes competing, you know,
it's not something that NFL players, you know, obviously that's a, they have their own violence
and danger there, but it's still different, right? And in any other sport, because it doesn't even
really come close. And so I think, I think that's been something really eye-opening to see as well
and, you know, how motivated these guys are to win despite all the variables and danger around them.
Again, very motivating and aspiring for us because we're not, we're not going 175 miles per hour
while we're making this film and trying to do our job. So, you know.
Yeah, James pointed out that we probably make too many jokes about the time that he died a little
bit on a racetrack. Like only just a bit. Like we're just over the line a little bit over the
flat lowering. Yeah, no, so say I only died a little bit. We don't make too many jokes. That's
yeah. I mean, but how many athletes can even like say something like that? You know what I mean?
Like that's the, that's the absurdity of it as well is like, you know, and then,
and then you still go back out there and, you know, compete again.
That person still goes back out there. Everyone else they're racing against that just saw that
still goes back out there. We're, we're not, we, I always, I always joke that we lack the
self-preservation gene that most human beings are born with, but hey, it makes for, makes for a good
show, right? It does. Got to have a couple of screws loose to do that. But again, that's, you
know, that's where, that's where exciting fun things happen. So obviously for us, Indy 500 is
our Super Bowl, right? It is our masters. It is our Wimbledon. It's the biggest deal. We're coming
up to that. What is in the pipeline from an all in perspective coming into the 500? What are you
guys really looking at? What stories are you trying to tell? Yeah. So we're working through that
actually at the moment and we're trying to do some exciting things. You know, one of the things
I was just coming off an internal call where we were kind of talking about it, you know,
we're, we're all kind of joking like, how do we have this kind of background narrative of
pillow, just kind of over, you know, kind of looking at everybody and kind of,
can kind of come take your lunch at any moment type of thing. And so I think there's definitely,
how do we, how do we tell that story? Because we don't want to turn this into the, you know,
one driver kind of story, because that was never the point of the series. But obviously,
like you look at him winning in Long Beach and what he's doing, shaping up to do this year,
based off the last couple of years, like there's, there's just such a compelling narrative around
how he's cementing himself, you know, in the upper echelons of the history of the sport. So
we definitely want to have some fun with some of the, you know, celebrity appearances and people
who are always out there and, you know, how we can kind of get them integrated into the access and
kind of follow doc side of things. You know, we want to profile, you know, multiple drivers,
obviously to your point, it's the Super Bowl of the sport. And we want to tell a little bit of
the history of it in a way that is super digestible and, you know, really concise and tight as the
series is designed to be for digital distribution. And then there's a couple other fun things we're
planning for, but that will keep up our sleeves till we, till we get there and get it all shot.
And are you going to get a chance to come? Are you finally going to make it to a race?
I'm, that's the one I've been circling. It happens to coincide with like a week after my,
my wife's due date for our second baby. So we'll see if she lets me out there, but I'm really,
I'm really hoping to be there because, you know, like I said, been, been so fond of,
to follow the sport. So, you know, one wants to miss the, the Super Bowl, you know, if you can be
there. Right. The only, the only 500 I missed was after my, my daughter was born. So, you know,
that's, that's got to come first. I get that. Exactly. It's a good enough excuse.
Yeah. Yeah. The 500 has been around for a while. It's probably going to be around next year. So
don't worry about it. We're three episodes in, how many episodes are scheduled for the season
and what's the, what's the release schedule for them? So we're going to be doing 12 episodes
in total. And then the release, I don't have in front of me right now, but we have
similar kind of cadence we've been going. We want to kind of get one out within two weeks,
pretty consistently. That's kind of the same, same trajectory we'll, we'll stay on
through the 12 episodes and through the season. And because it is, I mean, I,
we could spend an hour just talking about the challenges of doing these quick turnaround,
you know, format shows rather than a, you know, a drive to survive or whatever that comes out
six months later and can editorially make all the decisions after the fact. But when you have
12 episodes, you know, planned, how soon can you really start laying, laying out what episode
is going to be about, who we're going to follow? I mean, you can't have all 12 episodes planned
yet because we don't know what's happening. So how far, you know, in advance, what kind of lead
time can you actually give to these? Yeah, it's a great question. These first few episodes were
episodes we were able to kind of plan against. So we were able to say, Hey, these are the kind of
guys we want to go after in profile. You have big storylines coming in to set the scene. Exactly.
And so now, now is a little bit of the time where we get a little bit more fluid with that approach.
And so, you know, again, just, just jumping off a call where we were talking about
the next few episodes. And so it's just very much touch and go, you know, every week we're,
we're kind of watching how things unfold and having internal conversations with our show
runners and the creative team and Fox and Penske and IndyCar, et cetera, just always around,
Hey, these are the narratives and the storylines that we're pursuing. That has to match up with,
you know, where the access is attainable and all of that. And so that's part of the matrix of doing
real time storytelling is, you know, you don't get to just get it all in the can get it all shot
and then get into a post production room and, you know, spend months kind of planning out each
story beat in each episode. And it's part of what I think makes it really fun and exhilarating too,
is, you know, you're as much part of the sport as everyone else, you know, that's, that's competing
or in the paddocks or in the media side of things, et cetera. And so we just try to keep our, our,
you know, feet to the ground as much as possible with how everything is evolving and
and then we work really closely with all the stakeholders and we try to, you know, find the
most compelling angle and most compelling story. And, you know, again, that's why I was joking
with the Polo thing. It was just like, you know, we talked about him and showed him an episode one
and it was like, well, we, you know, we don't want to keep just having these other profiles and
ignoring the fact that the guy keeps winning. And so it's how do we make sure that that story
continues to be a part of the story, but not in a way that makes us, yeah, it's Polo doc, right?
And so, you know, those are things that we, you know, that enabled us to be fluid and kind of
determine, you know, the most compelling storylines. It's focusing on how all the other drivers are
starting to hate him so much. How do you now beat him? I think that's how you keep him in the story,
but by focusing on others. Well, man, look, thank you so much for your time. I know you guys have,
all the big stories are covered, but I'm going to throw out a, don't sleep on Ryan Hunter Ray in
May. All right. I gotta tell you, we make a lot of fun of him on this show because he is like
850 years old. The only, the only bigger number in his life than his age is the footage on his yacht
and his bank account because he's absurdly wealthy. But he's nearly won it last year in a one-off
with a one-off team and McLaren's good there. I'm putting in my dark horse right now, Ryan Hunter
Ray. But Gila, thank you so much for the time. Real quick, let everybody know where they can
catch all the previous episodes and where the future ones are coming out. Yeah. And thank you
guys very much for having me and what you guys are doing just in general for the sport. You can
check out All In on YouTube, on IndyCar's YouTube, Fox Sports YouTube. It'll be broadcasting
Linear 2 in the next couple months as well, which we're excited about. And if you can't find it,
just Google All In IndyCar and it will come up. And we're super excited to keep producing this
and telling these awesome stories. Well, we're excited to watch, man. Thank you for the time.
Hope to see you at a track soon. Congrats on kid number two. So if it's not at Indy,
hopefully we'll get you sometime later in the season. Amen. Thank you guys very much. I'll see
you soon. Take care. Cheers. This has been Offtrack with Hinch and Rossi. Offtrack is part of the
Serious XM Sports Podcast Network. If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more, please give
a five-star rating and leave a review. Subscribe today wherever you stream your podcasts. We are
at Ask Offtrack on Twitter and Instagram. And if you want to follow us on Twitter,
we're at Hinchtown and at Alexander Rossi. If you want to follow Thim, though we have no idea why
you would, he's at the Tim Durham on Twitter. Find us on YouTube and subscribe to our channel
for exclusive video content. Offtrack is produced by Tim Durham and by that, we mean Thim.
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