Going Deep With The 2027 Kia Telluride

Hello and welcome to this week's The Truth About Cars podcast. I am Tim Ely,

T-Tex managing editor and this week we're talking Kia, NASCAR and more. This week

T-Tex contributor Matthew Guy and I talked about tire pressure gauges an

important tool. We also talk about a major texting scandal in NASCAR. We also

have James Bell from Kia on with us to talk about the 2027 Kia Telluride

which was part of the 2025 Los Angeles Auto Show. But first, buying a car should

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you like what you hear on the Truth About Cars podcast please go ahead and

leave us a review and also check us out online at t-tech.com that is t-t-a-c dot

com or the truth about cars all spelled out dot com. We're your home for car

reviews, car news, opinions and so so much more. Here on the Truth About Cars

podcast we're always talking about the stuff that we use in our homes, in our

cars, and on our cars. Tools, cleaning products, that sort of thing. And today

we're discussing an important tool that I believe every driver, no matter how

mechanically inclined they are or are not, should have in their car. And that's tire

pressure gauges. And as always we have Matthew Guy, a t-tech contributor with us.

Matthew, how are you doing today? Hey, it's not a bad day. How about you? I'm doing

well just to just kind of hang in there as we get into the holiday season. So

Matthew, walk us through tire pressure gauges. Yeah, and it's almost a lost art

to do some of these basic checks on your car anymore. I mean, it's something

that checking your tire pressure is not something that a lot of people think

about doing on even every oil change that's low in every fuel fill. And that's

a lot it has to do with all of the technology that's in our cars these

days, you know? I mean, it wasn't that long ago that simple tire pressure

management systems were not a thing in our cars. But these days, just about

everything that we have in our driveway either will throw a light on the dash.

That's just not too specific, but just says, hey, you've got a low tire pressure

somewhere, or it'll specifically say your left front is down to 19 psi and you

need to put more air in this right away. So having a tire pressure gauge on hand

is not as common as it used to be, but I still think it's a really, really

important tool to have an important tool to know how to use because even if your

car, you know, you're relying on these programs and relying on these different

features that are in your car, that some things can go wrong with them.

They're not always going to alert you right away. And then by the time this is

true, by the time your tire is low enough to be noticeably low on air

pressure, it's debilitatingly low. So you're not going to really notice

unless you're a really, really good eye if you're only five pounds low, which

can affect your tire, I'm sorry, your fuel economy and things of that nature

can affect performance of your vehicle if you're even just five pounds low.

But by the time you can visually see 10 or 15 pounds, that's a critical thing.

So there's all kinds of different tire pressures out there, tire pressure gauges

out there. I had picked up a newer one off eBay just a little while ago and it

reminded me when I used it over the weekend about how important these things

are. You can get these things, tire companies often give them out, you know,

if you're at the tire shop, you can get these little pencil gauges, I call them.

Right, Tim, you probably can... Yeah, yeah, I think I've had them in the past.

Exactly, right. And they're just kind of knocking around your glove box or

knocking around your center console or whatever. And these are just the very

basic ones that you use to tire pressure gauge and the bottom end pops out.

It's just a little plastic square and it tells you if you've got between 30, you

know, or 32 or 35 psi. But they're not super precise if you're doing this a lot

and especially if you're doing any off-roading. And Tim, you guys, and if

there's any listeners out there who've been listening for a while, you guys know

that I like off-roading. So if you're venturing out into certain situations,

you're going to want to air down your tires just for extra traction.

And having a really good tire pressure gauge is important for that because there

are some tire pressure gauges that have a digital readout. So you can get really,

really precise down to a certain psi. And those readouts, I'm sorry, those tire

pressure gauges will also have a little release on them. So you can really,

really be specific when you're airing up and airing down. So I like those.

I picked up one of those off eBay just the other day. It wasn't expensive.

I was expecting it to be even like 40 bucks, but this thing was only 20 bucks.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So I was really, really impressed with it. I've been using it for ages now.

I just picked it up off eBay a little while ago. And I've been using it for ages,

just for off-roading and things like that. And it hasn't gone wrong. It's been accurate

because I'm thinking, all right, this thing was only 20 bucks and it's got a digital

gauge and it's got the release valve so I can get pretty precise with air pressures.

How accurate is this thing? So just being, you know, with all good scientific trials,

you use three or four different tests to make sure that it's actually accurate.

And it is. So I was very impressed with it. You don't need to spend a bundle to

get a really, really good tool these days.

Yeah, that's good. And again, I think this is a tool that every driver should have,

whether it is what you call the pencil gauge, the basic gauge, which is what I probably had

back when I owned a car. I know I had a few. I don't recall where they came from if they were

giveaways. If I paid for them, I know gas stations used to sell them cheap. I assume they still do.

Obviously, you mentioned eBay motors, of course. And then I would, you know, also recommend,

especially for people who struggle with this, people who live in areas where it's cold,

I would recommend maybe a digital gauge just for the precision. And just, I think you touched

on this when you mentioned at the open that all cars or most cars have these

have these, these, you know, sensors and everything digital these days. Just a reminder,

I know you touched on this too. So I don't want to, you know, be too redundant. But

a lot of these, what they call TPMS tire pressure monitoring systems in new cars,

and I've seen this even in test cars. I've seen it several times in the past few weeks just due

to the weather being a little chilly here in Chicago is you get, they're off by one,

if one tire is off by one or two pressure, it'll set the light off. Then people

start thinking, you know, it's a problem with my car because the warning lights off.

It's just that because when it's cold, their pressure drops a little and sometimes one tire

drops more than another. And being one PSI off is probably not going to harm your car or your

tires or you. But if you want to adjust it until they're all the same, a digital gauge makes life

a little easier. Just like you said, Matt, Matthew, more precise. So I would recommend

consumers at least have the pencil gauge and if not a digital gauge or both, especially at only

$20. Absolutely. And it's the type of thing that if you're, if any of our listeners are just getting

into, you know, car ownership or thinking about turning some wrenches, these types of,

you know, checks that you can do on your own car, something simple like checking your tire air

pressure is a great way to build a little bit of confidence just working around your car.

Absolutely. Right. So I mean, for the sake of 20 bucks and, and that's, you know, that's a pretty

fancy one that's got like, you know, the digital gauge and it's got a longer nozzle on it so that

you can release a little bit of air pressure. I've seen the digital gauges as low as like 499

in a gas station. So those things. And I've actually saw one the other day on eBay that had,

this was cool. It had a little light, little LED light right up at the top so that you could

actually see what you're doing at night when you're trying to fiddle around and find the

Schrader valve on your car. That's a big thing to be able to see at night. So good, right? So these,

I love how the democratization of, you know, LEDs and those types of things, the cost of this stuff

has come down so much from when you and I were, you know, young gear heads in, you know, as a

teenager, you know, getting the digital tire gauge for Christmas was like, whoa, you know,

this is super, super cool. And it's still super, super useful, but it's just so accessible to a

lot of people these days, especially if someone's just getting into their first car or just trying

to decide if they want to turn a few wrenches. This is a great way to build a bit of confidence.

So totally recommend picking one up off eBay. Yeah. And again, I also think it's

completely necessary for all drivers, particularly in areas where the weather changes in the fall

and spring. And, you know, if it's Florida and it's 75 degrees all year round, probably a little

less necessary, but I still think everyone, even in, even in those places should carry them because

it's not just temperatures, it'll change pressure. Obviously, you run over a nail or something and

that'll cause problems or you could get a whole new tire. Slow leak, a leak, you bend a rim if you

maybe hit the curvil pellet parking or hit a pothole, but poorly, barely enough. So

everyone needs to have these, but I think it's really, they're really extra important in the

Midwest, Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, the upper part of the South, like Tennessee, Pacific Northwest,

all of Canada, basically. So essentially, if you're not one of the smile states, you probably need,

you definitely need one of the, well, again, everyone, I think every car owner needs one,

but I think it's extra important for those of people who are not in the smile states, particularly

in October, November, and then conversely in March, April, May. So, Matthew, anything else

you want to add on tire pressure gauges? No, nothing else I wanted to add, man, other than

you're exactly right about temperature differentials and things of that nature can make them really

useful too. So, go out, find one on eBay, have it delivered to your house, you won't regret it.

Yeah, for sure. All right, that's been the Stuff We Use segment here on the Truth About Car's

podcast. Thank you, Matthew. Thank you.

On this week's Truth About Car's podcast, we are talking with James Bell, the head of corporate

communications for Kia. And the reason we're talking to James is because the Kia Tell Your

Eye has been updated and is probably one of the bigger debuts at this year's 2025 Los Angeles

Auto Show. So, James, how are you doing today? Well, hold on, I'm going to correct you on something

here, Tim. It's not probably one of the bigger debuts. It is the biggest deal.

Well, that's your job to say, not mine. Fair enough. No, thanks, Tim. It's always a pleasure.

You and I go back a long ways, always having a good time. So, it's fun to be here now.

Yeah, so talk to us a little bit about what Kia's trying to accomplish with the next generation

Tell Your Eye. Well, you know, it's a delicious challenge that you get when you work for a car

company to have a chance to try to outdo a legend. And when we think about how the Tell

Your Eye, the first generation, was received in 2019 as a 2020 model, it still kind of baffles

smart guys like you and I, because this is a vehicle that traditionally, you know, the phrase

is a hockey stick. So, when you look at sales trend over time, obviously, when something comes out,

it's new and hot and fresh, you get that spike. And so, that's the short end of the hockey stick,

so to say. And then over time, it cools down and then you end up kind of flat lining for a bit

until the new model comes out. That happens to, gosh, 95% of cars on the road. Tell Your Eye did

not. If you chart out Tell Your Eye sales, they started up strong and went up. And it really just

kind of just settled a little bit in the last probably six months, but that's because there's

been a lot of good fun conversation about the new Tell Your Eye coming out. So, you've got a combination

of people who are very loyal to the idea of a seven passenger SUV from Kia that are looking

forward to seeing the new one. So, you know, maybe not getting a new old one, if you know what I mean,

you know, the current generation, or have always liked the Tell Your Eye, but have been driving

something else and now kind of waiting to see what the next gen is. So, our sales have just

started to flatten out, but again, the idea of that hockey stick chart does not look like what

Tell Your Eye did. And so, when you go to replace that, it's a lot of pressure, but it's a fun

pressure and we kind of relish it here at Kia. Yeah, so you've gained in size with the Tell Your Eye.

Is that, I'm trying to figure out how to phrase this, is that kind of just something you see from

consumer demand, you know, is it just bigger, is always better? It seems like cars just get

bigger and bigger and very rarely get smaller. Well, yeah, I mean, the new generation Tell

Your Eye is a little bit longer, a little bit taller, and really just to kind of maximize

interior space, not that it was missing or delinquent in the first generation, but

you're right, bigger is better, but I also think it's not necessarily bigger on the outside,

it's just maximizing the space on the inside, using new materials, high string steels, things

like that can really kind of, you know, open up that interior space. So, you know, I just think

that the skill or the bullseye that the Tell Your Eye hit for the Kia brand was connected to being

the right size. It's not, you know, it's not a monster truck, it fits in people's garages,

but yet it has more than enough space for most American drivers. You and I both know there's

just something very interesting about the American car buying a Psyche that's very

wound to getting the most vehicle for their dollar, and that often means buying too much.

You know, I think in my own family, my wife wanted a new seven passenger SUV coming out of

another brand, and this is before I joined Kia, and she said, yeah, we need to get another one.

And I said, why? And I went out to the current car and I looked at the rear seats, the two in the

back, and they'd never been touched. So why are you driving around these chairs that nobody needed?

Well, just in case. And that is such a prevalent part of the American car buying Psyche, that just

in case part, where I think Tell Your Eye nailed it was because it's the right size. It gives sense

that sense that people like of just in case I need to go pick up my entire family at the airport,

I'll have room for them and their things. But then on a day-to-day perspective,

it's still very usable. So I think it worked well.

Let's talk design for a second. So I'm looking at, I have photos in front of me of both the

2027, the new model, and the 2025. And the difference is it's evolutionary, not revolutionary.

The biggest difference that I'm seeing in photos, and we just for photos closure to our listeners,

we're recording this a little bit in advance of the LA show. And I'm hoping to see the Tell

Your Eye up close in LA. So my opinions might be a little bit different if I see it up close.

I've not seen it in person yet. But the biggest difference, especially on what appears to be the

X-Pro model is the grille. So can you walk us through the design change there to go with

kind of keeping the overall shape more or less the same, and then really just sort of

changing the grille a lot? Well, this is the challenge. Because when you

have a vehicle that is such a huge success, I mean, I'm thinking back for the first

year of Tell Your Eye, I think we were going to build 55,000 of them. And by the end of the

run of the first generation Tell Your Eye, we were turning out about 130,000 if memory serves.

So, you know, almost three times as much. And then for this generation, we're looking to do

even more than that. So when you go to reintroduce something that has been such a success, it's

a balance point. And I think for my money, and granted, Tim, you haven't seen it in the flash,

it is, I think that if you took the front grille clip off the car, you would say, wow, that's a

big grille. No question about it. But when you put it back on and then look at the detail and the

kind of forms and functionality of some of the bits, I mean, on the X-Pro version, we have

real tow hooks on the front. They're not plastic little decorations that are serious.

When you look at some of the way it all fits in, at first glance, it looks big. But then when you

see how much of it is actually taking in air and how much of it is kind of a technical design

element, it shrinks in a bit. And also, I think being in a contrasting dark matte color compared

to the body paint color makes it even look a little bit more imposing. But you know what,

that's kind of the way the business is right now. There's just a big trend. I mean,

I guess going back to Audi and Lexus a couple years ago with the big bottom feeder, big mouth,

so to say, on the front. And so we found a way, I think, to kind of catch some of that spirit

and some of that energy, which we know our competitors have been successful with, especially

in their luxury space, but then also make it look more functional and more usable. So again,

I've seen it in the flesh. You have not. Well, at least at the moment, we're recording this.

But I think it works better when you do see it in context of other vehicles on the road and when

you see just how much detail and how much effort has gone into making that an interesting space,

if nothing else. Yes, this episode should go live right after the debut for those who've not

seen it yet. So it was a good chance that I will have my opinions in print or on the website as

people listen to this episode. When it comes to tire rider, when it comes to any vehicle that has

a lot of inherent curiosity and energy in the marketplace, it's a lot of fun for us on the OEM

site. And I have just loved watching websites with their, you know, we have a rendering, we think

this is what the new tire ride is going to look like. No, no, no, we think this is what it's

going to look like. And it's been so much fun to look at those and say, well, okay, that website,

they're close, but not quite. And this one, not even close. And this one, we're getting closer,

but not quite right. And so it's a lot of fun when the world wants to see a new baby.

Yeah, speaking of more design, let's go from the outside of the inside and

talk about the biggest change that I can see in photos is the dash. So the old or current

however you want to find it, tell your ride has two screens that sort of run together from the

gauges to the center stack. That has not changed, but the look of it has. And it looks a little more

one piece together in photos than it does with the outgoing model. So can you walk us through that as

well? Yeah, sure. I mean, you know, screens, let's be fair, it's an interesting evolution in the car

business. We went from having just a certain number of cars having screens in place of physical

gauges and needles and things like that to suddenly everything. I mean, your cheapest car now has

screens and there's good manufacturing reasons for that. Those are dashboards and some of the

elements and the mechanical elements in them can become a knock on quality down the road. If there's

some sort of issue in there, it's often not pretty. You have to dig in and to replace a little plastic

gear or something like that. Whereas with the screen, it's very easy to swap them out and you

can they can be customizable as well. So it is a good thing. But you're right. It is a bit more

evolutionary when it comes to our screen use. Kia has and I would say the Hyundai Motor Group,

all of our three brands have done a great job of taking a lot of information, putting it in that

long rectangular screen space as opposed to vertically, like some of our competitors, and

just providing a lot of information in a more subtle, not as visually imposing way. And that's

wired back a lot to how we approach safety. Our premise is that we all want to have the coolest

technology and the biggest screens and have all that good fun bling, if you will, in the car.

But at the same time, if it's too busy, if it takes too much work to change the air conditioning

speed or the fan speed, I should say, or change the radio station or move my seat adjustment,

because I have to dig through screens, then I'm not driving safely. And so we try to find a balance

between big screens that give the information that are attractive to look at, that do what you need,

but then not be over reliant on them. And I think that's one place where

when I saw the new Telluride interior, I knew it was going to be reminiscent of the EV9,

and it is, but it moves it also towards the more rugged space that you saw in the current generation

Telluride. So I think it's a nice balance. I think people are going to enjoy it,

who I can tell you they will, because we've been clinically the vehicle now for the last

probably four or five months. And yeah, the interior has been a big hit.

Yeah. Okay. So also, this is a 2027 model. Yeah. Now that I believe that means it cannot

be sold until after January 1st, if I am correct with my legalities there. So why did you skip

the 2026 model year? Easy, because we had planned out our production, as I said earlier,

the current generation has been, you know, right to the bitter end here has been a big

sales success. So we had a pretty good pulse on how many we needed to build to just do a

nice clean transition. And so we saw that with the new generation coming online in very early

26, and the old generation having a nice end of life coming up to the very end of 2025 into

early 26, there was no need to have a 26 model. Let's just jump right in with this all new model.

As you said, it's in will be on sale in 26 as a 27. But yeah, there's nothing too dramatic there.

It was just looking at production, you know, the the wind down of current and the build up of the

new. And that just made the most sense. And can you tell me when it goes on sale? Do you guys know

yet? Yeah, of course, I think it's in the first quarter of 26, if memory serves. But what we'll

by the time your listeners hear this, it'll be definitely secured because we'll be announcing

at the show. But between all of us, I believe it is the first quarter. And then can we talk

powertrain? It looks like the powertrain carries over. Yes, and no, we've got some surprises that

were we held for the LA auto show. But I guess we can talk about that now. You know, our sister

company Hyundai continued on with the v6 that was in the Palisade and the Telluride. But we are

moving a little differently. We're going to now have the emphasis or the focus model be the turbo

hybrid, which is going to do I think better than 36 miles per gallon, but have more power and more

torque than the v6, the outgoing v6. Now, you know, I understand the v6 was incredibly well

mated to the transmission that, you know, I've always said, going back to my time, Tim, when I

was on your side of the fence as on the media, there are times where you drive a car and you think,

wow, this transmission and this engine, they don't like each other. They're not they're not in sync.

They're not, you know, giving me a nice smooth power transition. Hyundai Motor Group with the

Kia Telluride did a fantastic job of that, I believe with the v6. And now we're going to just

basically take that same premise and that same level of comfort and power, but put it in a four

cylinder turbo hybrid, which again, with more power, more fuel efficiency, fewer emissions,

it's all it's all the best. And then as a secondary choice, we're going with a new 2.5

liter turbo four cylinder. But I think the biggest focus is going to be on that on that

turbo hybrid, because it's it's the best of all worlds. Alrighty, and then I'm trying to think

was anything else I want to ask and tell you, right? Because they wanted to switch gears briefly

and talk to you about a different model as well. So we'll, we'll, we'll table, excuse me, we'll

table Telluride say that five times fast until unless I think of anything else to ask before

our time runs out. But I want to talk to you, James, because you are at Kia, obviously, and Kia

made some news recently with the the discontinuation or the death of the Kia Soul, which I always thought

was kind of a relatively popular city car. And previous to this episode, we have had David Thomas

from CDK global on the talk about small cars in general, just kind of the lack of affordable

small cars across the board. And obviously, there are still some small cars for sale,

including your own K four. And some of those vehicles are under $30,000 or under $35,000.

So I don't want to overstate the case, but we did have a good discussion, David, and I did about

what's happening with that segment. And, you know, especially with the box of your cars going

away, I think the Hyundai venue is the only boxy one left, although the although Nissan did just

release a new kicks, although it's also about a little over 30 for the high end trims on that one.

So, so the kick we have a new kicks, the venue is kind of soldiering on and I don't know if a

new one is planned. Soul is gone. Nissan's juke is long gone. Nissan's cube is long gone. The

Scion brand is long gone. So the XB is gone. So, you know, what is happening in that segment and

why did Kia make the decision to move away from the soul? And does key does the existence of K

four play a part as well? Well, I mean, I'll say, first off, I agree with everything you said, the

soul is, you know, every brand has its icons. I would say the, you know, Porsche, it's a 911

Ford, it's probably the Mustang or the F F 150 for Kia. Many people would say it was a soul.

I mean, that was the little the little box that could and if you mentioned, if you think back

to when the soul was introduced in 2008, I believe there were three import brands that came out with

a similar kind of city runabout machine, the Kia soul, the Nissan cube and the Scion XB.

And our two competitors have been long gone. And the soul has been soldering on.

I think it's mostly just a slight move in people's tastes. There we're seeing more interest in

something more small SUV ish. And I think that's why the new cell toes that we've got coming out

in 2026 will be a nice kind of a step for people who are maybe very loyal to the soul,

like that idea. And the cell toes is going to have equal. Yeah, I forgot the cell toes.

Yeah, you know, it's fine. I mean, one of the one of the complaints about the soul is that it

never had an all wheel drive platform available to it. And that, of course, was solved by cell

toes. I think that when we had the current generation soul and the current generation

cell toes in the showroom, these current cell toes just wasn't kind of quirky enough or curious

enough, which is exactly what the soul is quirky and curious. And so it did a good job for people

who needed all wheel drive as a Kia option, which was still, you know, inexpensive, high value,

great feature content for what you get. But it maybe didn't have that quirkiness. And I think

the next generation is going to solve a lot of that. It isn't, it doesn't look like a soul by

any measure, but it doesn't look like the current generation cell toes either. It's very much a

modern interpretation of it. And so while, you know, again, back to your original question,

we wish the soul could last forever. Business realities are that that segment, that kind of

vehicle is not quite where it is. But it doesn't mean that people are leaving that segment. It

means they're looking for more modern options. And I think that's what the cell toes will do

a lovely job of. Yeah. And David and I did talk about the existence of cell toes and as well as

K4 and how those do sort of, I don't want to say substitute, but those do give folks an option.

Soul intenders can get an option from cell toes or K4 if, you know, they're not able to get a

soul before it goes away. So Tim, if I can just mention, you know, K4 has been a huge unexpected

success for us. And we've had a lot of people coming in with, you know, a 2017 soul or 2020 soul

looking to move into something different and going home with a K4. And which seems counterintuitive

to the way we know a lot of the industry is right now of, you know, SUV or bust. But no,

the K4 has a lot of interior space. And I think there's been a bit of a,

for lack of better term, a rationalizing going on with people saying, do I really need to carry

around this box? It's just me in the car. Or it's just me and my kid in the backseat when I'm

picking them up at school. I don't need a big box. I just need something, you know, more sleek and

nimble and just kind of nip around traffic. And the K4 has hit that like a perfect bullseye. So I

think between going forward, and I hear you're saying, we can't replace the soul because it's

irreplaceable. It's a bit of a legend. But the K4 and the self coming Celtos, I think will

satisfy that happy soul group very closely. Yeah. And it's not just about the soul itself. It's also

about just the amount of cars that are available under $30,000, under $35,000. The type of design

that exists, whether they're sedan, boxy, crossover, or some combination they're of. So,

you know, the soul was just the driving. It was just the news hook or news peg of that

conversation because it's obviously, as we said, the juke and the cube have been gone for quite

some time. Sine as a brand took down the XB with it and Toyota didn't, and Toyota moved the GR86,

or move the, what was called the FRS then, now it's the GR86. They moved the sports car over,

but they did not move the cube, the cube shaped utility vehicle. And anecdotally, I've heard from

a lot of people who love the boxy shape. They like the higher headliner. They liked the higher

headroom or the ability to haul small items, like TVs or small home depot projects, stuff like that.

People who maybe are a little outdoorsy, you wanted to haul a bicycle or a surf board in

California, stuff like that. So, there was always some utilitarian element to it, and I just don't

know if, you know, the market tastes have changed. If people have changed, I know some people like

the, especially older folks, like the, getting in and out, I found it a little easier.

The higher ride height, yeah. The higher seat height, I should say.

Yeah. So, there's a larger conversation here about automotive design at the lower end price

point that that's not just Kia. It just so happens that you work for Kia.

Yeah. I think, you know, that's one of the fascinating parts about this industry. And in fact,

I was just talking to a guy at dinner the other day about this, that what is one person's perfect

is another person's nightmare. And, you know, you just, and that's the delicious part of trying

to set up a lineup that appeals to enough. You can't cover everybody, but if you can cover most

and do it in a, an attractive, affordable, you know, the easiest way I used to like to say it,

and I think Tim and you and I have talked about this many times in the past,

is there has to be something in the next car you're considering that you're, that you're proud of,

that, you know, when you, when you pull in your neighborhood after visiting the dealer

and you get out of the car and you kind of look around the neighborhood like,

anybody see this and anybody going to come over and want to have a look and, you know,

you have a moment of pride. Kia wasn't that way back in 2008 when the first Soul came out.

It was kind of like, oh, you got a Kia there. Yeah, I got a good deal on it.

Sure. It made sense. That's what the Kia brand was there for. The Soul, the Stinger,

the first generation Telluride, the Optima, all that moved that spectrum from being more just,

oh, I got a good deal on it too. I'm proud of it. I'm interested in showing this off and being,

and having been an extension of my personality. And, and again, the Soul, I think did a lovely

job of that. But, but, you know, trends move on. And the small, more, you know, traditional SUV type

machine, as you mentioned, the Nissan Kix, that's got kind of that, yes, it's small and boxy, but

it's not a box the way the Cube was. You know, so, and I think again, between Seltos and K4,

Kia has a good one-two punch. And as I said, the K4 is already punching hard. So,

the new Seltos should fill in that riddle well. Yeah. So, if there's anything else you want to add

on, that's actually, before we wrap this segment, that's actually a great conversation we could have,

you and I could have a future episode, just having an OEM perspective on what's happening

with certain segments. It's easy for myself or David Thomas as people who don't work for OEMs to

come in and say, we believe this, this and this, we also don't see, we also don't see your financials,

we also don't see what's selling and what isn't. It's like the old quote about sports coaching,

that if you're, if you're a head coach, you listen to the fans, you'll be soon sitting among them. So,

there's always, there's always internal perspective that sometimes, you know, if I ran a car company,

I would probably run it through an enthusiast lens and probably produce some stuff that wouldn't

sell very well. So, you know, it's, it's always interesting conversation and I wanted to pick

your brain just because it wasn't just the soul going away. That was just what drove the conversation

because obviously it's one fewer model and one fewer boxy utilitarian model as well in that segment.

Obviously there's still plenty of small cars. The K4 is obviously more traditional sedan.

The Civic still exists in both hatchback and stand form. Corolla's still around in hatchback

and sedan form. So, you still have plenty of stuff. The Nissan, Nissan just launched a new Sentra,

a refreshed it really. The Sentra still exists. Obviously, there's a few other models I'm

forgetting right now, but Subaru offers some utilitarian wagon type stuff for a little bit

more money into the, into the mid $30,000 range. So, you have, you know, you have options there.

It's not like, oh my gosh, the Kia Soul has gone away the whole segment's dead, but it was just like,

that was a good conversation starter piece, you know, go from there. So, James, if there's

anything more you want to add on Telluride or Soul, feel free. Otherwise, we'll go ahead and wrap

the segment. Well, I just, you know, just back to Telluride. I think it's going to be, well,

we're really excited about, excuse me, the LA show, you know, it's always interesting to show off your

new baby. We hope that people think it's cute. And some people will and some people won't. I'm

thinking this time of episode with the ugly baby when they're in the Hampton. Well, we'll have

people lament, you know, you did this, change this part too much, you changed that part too much.

At the same time, you're going to have, we believe even more people saying,

oh, what you changed, we liked it the way it was, but that's even better. And especially,

I think, from the powertrain side, that turbo hybrid engine is a real gem. So, yeah, we're excited

to finally get it out. It's been a secret we've been holding for way too long. So happy to have

the LA show and happy to have people come to your website and check it out.

Sounds good, James. Thanks. Thank you so much for your time. We've been talking with James Bell,

the head of corporate communications for Kia, talking Telluride, Kia Soul, and a little bit more.

So once again, James, thank you for your time. And we will go ahead and end or wrap this segment

of the TTEC podcast. Thanks, James. Thank you.

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Here on the Truth About Cars podcast, we're always talking NASCAR or just about always, and we are

now getting deeper and deeper into the silly season, which is the kind of fun name for the off

season, because there's always silly news. Or in today's case, news, it's a little more serious.

We'll get into it in just a second. But first of all, or first off, I should say, we have,

as you almost, as we almost always have, T-Tech contributor Matthew Guy. Matthew,

how are you doing today? Hi, doing good. Doing good. How about you?

I'm doing well, doing well. So NASCAR news today, and this has come to light over the past.

So obviously, as our listeners know, this is recorded. So this has come to light over the

past few days leading into the week of Thanksgiving, the American Thanksgiving. So

I don't have these, I'm looking at the exact dates here. It looks like this kind of came to light.

Today is early, no, it's early the week of Thanksgiving. This kind of came to light over

the weekend, the weekend before Thanksgiving, just to put people into perspective here.

So essentially, Trackhouse Racing has a lawsuit about the Charter,

I'm sorry, Dutch Trackhouse Racing, 2311 Racing. I had the wrong team. 2311 Racing and Front

Remote Sports have kind of an antitrust case going on against NASCAR. And it's a big thing.

We'll talk about it more going forward in the podcast as more comes to light and as more happens

with the lawsuit. And as I, not being a legal expert, learned more about it. And I think Matthew

is also learning as well. But we are hearing today that NASCAR executives fired off some texts to

each other that were really harsh towards fans and owners. So just as an example,

legendary team owner Richard Childress, one of the more successful owners in sport history,

was called by NASCAR president Steve Phillips, or Steve Phelps, excuse me, Steve Phelps,

called him a bloody stupid redneck who made his fortune, and I'm paraphrasing,

now it's not verbatim, but it's close, who made his fortune because of NASCAR.

And he also referred to Childress as an idiot and dinosaur and pain in the earth. So I don't

know if Phelps is British or not, but he, using words like bloody and arse, definitely sounds like

it. And I believe that is in, within our bounds for what we consider a clean episode. So I'm not

going to say any words that would get us in trouble with the, with our podcast house, but I believe

arse is okay. And then executive vice president, Brian Herbst, H-E-R-B-S-T, basically said that

he also said that Childress was an idiot and said teams are short-sighted only looking for

themselves, which might actually be true. And maybe, maybe, maybe not. And Phelps was basically

saying that if owners didn't like things, they should get rid of their charter and get the hell

out of here. So, so that is a little bit not as unreasonable. It's just, you know, two sides of

dispute, kind of fighting each other. And I think the worst thing comes a little bit later from

Jeff Dickerson, who's the co-owner and CEO of Spire Motorports, excuse me, I'm having a tough,

tough time today. Motorsports, Spire Motorsports, he's talking, texting to an unknown person

and basically says something about a podcast appearance. And if Heather Gibbs, who's the

co-owner of Joe Gibbs Racing along with legendary team owner and former NFL coach Joe Gibbs,

basically says if Heather had been planted on him, I'm not quite sure what that means.

But then he also comes at the very end of the conversation and says, it's actually not Dickerson,

it's the person he's talking to. The person says, unfortunately, most of our fans are not

exactly top readers. So, essentially, a shot at NASCAR fan intelligence. And it's, it's,

it's unfortunate. Matthew, I'm still digging through this. I want to get your take, then I'll,

then I'll give you mine. Of course, yeah. And a lot of this, just for any of our listeners who

might not know, a lot of these messages and a lot of these text messages, and there were some

emails as well. A lot of these are coming out because of, you know, the legal proceedings

that have been put in place. Yeah, part of this, in the legal world, they will call it discovery.

And as part of getting ready for whatever arguments that need to be made for the lawsuit

that's brought against NASCAR. And the thing with some of these texts and some of these messages

that are being out there now, if they are deemed, okay, so we can't show this to a jury,

or, you know, they're unsealed in, in some way, shape or form, that's why we're, we're seeing

these types of things as the public now. And that's why these things are coming out. So we've seen

some people online also questioning, all right, so this message is from 2023. Why is this only

coming to light now? Why is this only showing up right now? That's why, you know, because these

messages were subpoenaed, or however they got into the legal system, were deemed of a certain

importance or not. And then that's why they're out here in the open. So you were now also starting

to see some responses and some commentary from what I consider respected people in the industry,

like Mark Martin, you know, you know, Mark Martin, he tweeted, or on X the other day,

in response to some of these messages, right? It's been going on, quoting on in the sport,

I love, he's disappointed all the way around, right? He said, and this is interesting, quote,

there were plenty of problems before the charters in the RTA, but I'm not sure how you ever fix all

this now, end quote. And, you know, Mark Martin is always someone who's a pretty level head when

it comes to both racing in the car, he was always a very clean racer back in the day, but also as

a, you know, ambassador for the sport, he will certainly call out bad behavior, but he's also

pretty level headed, he doesn't tend to go off the handle to use a turn of phrase there when

he sees something he doesn't like. So his responses are usually pretty measured. So I tend to agree

with him, you know, and listen to what what he says. And he's right, you know, that I mean,

there's there's always going to be people like you talked about as well, you know,

sometimes things are set in the heat of the moment. We've all fired off a text message,

we've all fired off an email that we've wanted to call back in our lives. And the old saw that,

hey, if you're going to email it or you're going to text it, you better be comfortable with it

showing up in a in a lawsuit 10 years down the road, right? Because things are forever on the

internet. One or two, one or two messages is outlier. But this that we're finding out now

through this discovery process and it's being released to the public does seem to be more than

just a one off type of email sent in frustration, right? It seems to be more culture of whether

it's, you know, NASCAR has always been on NASCAR as an entity has always ruled with an iron fist

right back to the days of Big Bill France. And that's the way it is, right? Either you race

under our rules or you don't race at all. And NASCAR is finding out that they that that is a

very difficult position to take in the year 2020, whatever, right? So, right. And so that's what

once you get people like Michael Jordan as a team owner, they're going to start to question this

type of stuff. And maybe there was some frustration there with Richard Childress, because Richard

Childress, if you remember, was also one of the people who said, God, you know, this, this agreement,

right, was sent to us and we had to sign it by the end of the day or we don't race, you know,

he did express a bit of frustration, which is unusual for someone who's been in NASCAR

for a long time, because they know how much of an iron fist NASCAR as an entity rules the sport.

So that's probably where some of these some of these some of these names and frustrations from

people like Steve Phelps stemmed from, right? Why is this guy not playing ball? Like, I mean,

he knows he's been around forever, you just sign it and you go is a lot of a lot of the

a lot of the way that some of these things have been approached in the in the past. And

I'm glad that a lot of this stuff is coming to light, you know, because NASCAR has been such a

closed sport in terms of being able to see behind the curtain in any way shape or form. So

it's an extremely interesting and the course is going to come out now during the off season,

nothing else to talk about, right? Yeah, exactly. Yep. What do you think? I mean,

with with with a lot of these, a lot of these messages, you know, one or two, you know, okay,

that's an outlier. But once we see a whole bunch of them from the same three or four people,

do you think NASCAR does need to scapegoat as well? Right? You know, for all this type of stuff?

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, if they focus on one or two people that might be the scapegoat that they

want in and maybe are looking for. Yeah. So my take is a couple of different things. I think

what you said about all of us have fired off, if not in our jobs, at least in our personal lives,

a text where maybe emotions got the best of us, whether we're arguing politics or arguing with

a specific and other or whatever. And you know, like, like you said, you should never send a text,

you wouldn't be comfortable with the world seeing in a lawsuit. I would also suggest that

if you can, if you're going to write an angry email or text and text, obviously,

you're in the middle of a conversation, you may be expected to reply quickly. So it may not always

be possible, but sometimes you sit on it, think about it, let it, you know, if it's an email to

your boss or something and you're angry, maybe let it sit overnight before you, before you send it.

But, you know, I think too, there may have just been, it's hard to tell, you know,

if they're sincere in these feelings or if it's just frustration. Do they really mean that Richard

Scheller is in their view a redneck or is it just, you know, upset? Like I've got, we all have a friend

you might have an argument with and you call them dumb, you know, they're not dumb. You might,

or you might get mad at them and take a shot at their personal appearance and you know that

you didn't really mean to make fun of the way they look, but you were just mad, right? So maybe

Richard Scheller gets hit with that term because of where he's from or because of his accent or

because of his long-term involvement with the sport that's associated with the South. And this

has been often stereotyped as having redneck fans. So maybe, you know, maybe Richard Scheller's,

maybe really, I don't know anything about his personal life. I don't know, maybe he was really

into hunting and fishing and people stereotyping that way, although I would also say for an

outdoorsman, it doesn't necessarily make you a redneck, it's, it is a stereotype. But, you know,

so maybe Steve Phelps feels that way or maybe he just took a shot at him because of the way

children's talks or whatever and who knows, you know what I mean? I'm trying to say, I guess

what I'm trying to say is if he called him fat, I don't know what children's looks like, if he

called him fat or ugly or something, is he fat or ugly or is he just frustrated? So does he mean

it or not? So I don't know if he means it or not, but, you know, it's something that's not a good

look. It's something you wouldn't want being out there professionally. It could ruin the

professional relationship between children and Phelps, even if Phelps goes to apologizes and says,

I didn't mean it. You're not a redneck. I'm just angry. You know, also it could get, you know,

it's someone who is in a corporate position. I don't think anyone should be sending any emails

or texts talking negative about coworkers at all. Just because it's, you know, it's rude, it's

impolite, it's unproductive, it's bad for morale and all those other things. So, you know, there's

that. So I think it's not definitely not a good thing. What I'm really focused on is kind of

insulting the fans intelligence. Now, we know the appears the text that said that came from somebody

we don't know who it is. I'm not sure why the person's identity is not known, but look, let's

face it, all sports fans, including NASCAR, there's a certain percentage of fans that probably aren't

highly educated or probably aren't highly intelligent because there's a segment of society

that's not, but that does not mean that all the fans are dumb. It does not mean you should

take shots at your fans. I mean, there's a lot of smart NASCAR fans and NASCAR, when I say smart

NASCAR fans, I both mean in general and smart in terms of understanding the sport and understanding

the strategy. You know, one thing I'm still learning as as a relatively casual fan who has had to

get more and more into NASCAR as we talked about it every week on this podcast,

I'm still learning a lot about tech and pit strategy and tire choices and tire strategy that

I didn't always know when I was younger. When I was younger, it was kind of like, well,

which driver is best at driving a car? Which car is fastest? And that's an overly simplistic way

of looking at the sport. And the more I learned about the sport and the more I cover it, especially

on the opportunities, which has been once a year in the past couple of years, to cover our NASCAR

race in person and actually talk to drivers and and watch beat reporters talk to drivers,

people who've covered the sport every week. I'm learning more and more about the sport and it's

complicated sport. It really is. And people don't realize that how complicated it is because a lot

of races as we've discussed before are one and lost in the pits. So to be a NASCAR fan requires

a level of intelligence that I think every other sport has to just like in football,

there are football fans who really understand the X's and O's of a play. And there are others

who don't, right? So and there's some who are in between. I consider myself in between when it

comes to football. I understand a wide receiver, a rope tree. I know what a rope tree is. I know

basics of plays, but there are some terminology. There is some terminology. There are some

concepts that I don't know. And I could probably learn if I spent a few minutes watching a YouTube

video or reading an article from a very good writer who explains it clearly. So what I'm trying

to say is, and I was getting kind of a little starting to get a little bit long winded, so I'm

going to try and rain myself in. But what I was trying to say is that NASCAR has a lot of smart

fans, whether you're talking about BookSmart or you're talking about people who are smart when it

comes to the sport itself or both. And so to sit there and insult your fans, I think is a terrible

look. And now the one saving grace here is it was not Steve Phelps who said it. It wasn't a team

owner. Well, we don't know, but we don't know who said it. So for the moment, until that identity

gets revealed, that it could be, it could just be, they did say are. So I assume they are either a

team owner or a or a member of NASCAR's corporate side, because they did say our fans, they were

possessive about it. They could have been a driver too, I suppose, or a crew chief or crew member,

crew worker. But, you know, whoever said it, insulting your fans is just a bad, bad idea.

Yeah, just, I mean, literally biting the hand that feeds you, right? And you come back to, I mean,

this is a different, like different segment of racing altogether, but you come back to John Force

in, in the NHRA and drag racing, you know, I mean, John Force has always praised his fans,

right? It doesn't matter. And, and, and, you know, he's always often said in interviews and stuff

like that, he's always grateful for the fans. And, you know, I remember him saying one time,

and this always stuck with me, right? He's like, every shingle that's on my house is there because

of the fans, right? Right. So I mean, that, that type of thing. And yes, there's always going to be

frustration. There's always going to be all, you know, those types of conversations. But

you need to appreciate the fans. And sure, sometimes fans are going to be very invested in

what's going on and very vocal, right? And I mean, sometimes I joke that, you know, I'm,

because I'm such a big NASCAR fan, I'm also a big critic, because I care, right, about what

happens, right? Some of your biggest fans are going to be harshest critics. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Right. And there's, you know, there's argument there that that that will be used. I'm sure that,

you know, while these emails were meant to be private, you know, they were meant to be meant

to be part of, you know, a private conversation, those types of things. But when you're talking

about, you know, not just your fans, but also some of the major pillars of the sports like

Childress, right? You know, calling them, you know, the names that were said to, you know,

that were leveled at him, right? I mean, Richard Childress, you know, beyond, you know,

very briefly coming out and saying, you know, I had to sign this agreement, you know, before

midnight, and that was a bit beyond the pale. He's not involved in the, I mean, he keeps catching

strays, right? I mean, he's not, he's not actually involved in this lawsuit, right? He's not named

in the lawsuit. The 2311 and front row motor sports has brought, you know, arguing, I think

the simplest way to describe it, I've been looking for a simple way to describe it, but is basically

arguing that NASCAR's charter model limits fair competition because it controls how teams enter

the cup series, right? And share revenue. So that's as simple as this jaundiced brain can,

can comprehend it, right? There's, there's someone else out there who can make that too.

Yes. Right. So, but there's all kinds of, you know, there's a lot of stuff that start to surface now

that Steve Phelps has written, you know, whether it's in a text or in an email that does start to

paint a bigger picture about how, you know, some corners of NASCAR upper echelons of the,

of the C suite of the, you know, of the executive corner are frustrated with both the fans

and frustrated with the teams. And that, you know, one or two emails are an outlier, you know,

a whole bunch of them starts to develop some sort of pattern, right? You know, you got to imagine

that mean regardless of, of like the outcome of the lawsuit, right? I mean, these texts and

stuff that are coming out, they got to create some sort of shake up in the upper levels of the sport,

right? I mean, the only way, you know, to, to fix some of these, some of these

image problems is to shuffle people around, right? And whether it's to shuffle people out of the

spotlight and say, okay, as NASCAR as an entity, you know, we've quote unquote fixed this problem

by moving this person out of the corner where levers are pulled, whether that actually happens

or not is one way to do it. So I do think that during the off season, we're going to see some

changes there because of the surfacing of these conversations. Yeah, we have only a few minutes

left. I tend to agree with just about everything you said there. And if there's something I don't,

I'll think it over and we'll talk about next time we get to this topic. But I wanted to add to

just, you know, I'm not defending, so let me preface this by saying that straight up,

I'm not defending any of the nasty comments from Phelps or Herbst or anybody else who,

who mocked fans or team owners. I do, you can logically understand something without

defending it. And I do understand that if you are in management position,

sometimes, and I've worked in the quote unquote, I worked at the car dealership world, I don't

know if you really call that retail or customer service a little bit of both. But I've worked in

that world where people can sometimes be down on customers because customers can frustrate you.

It's just part of the job, right? So I can understand to an extent, if you're Steve Phelps

or Herbst, and you're upset with these, these, these teams that you're fighting over the charters

stuff with that are having this lawsuit with, I can understand, you know, disagree with them,

I'm getting frustrated and, and, and all that sort of thing. And again, as we said at the outset,

we all say things we don't mean or, or probably don't mean or we lose our cool or whatever.

And I can even understand if being upset with the fans, if the fans are siding with the drivers

and you're frustrated or with the, I shouldn't say drivers, but with the other, the teams that

are fighting against NASCAR in the lawsuit would be more accurate. But just because I can understand

it doesn't mean it doesn't mean it's defensible and it doesn't mean it should have happened.

And it doesn't mean it's good. It's not good. It's, like I said, even whether Steve Phelps meant

to call Richard Childress a redneck or, or whether it was just a moment of frustration,

he didn't mean it. It's going to, it's going to impact the relationship going forward. And

again, the, again, I take issue with the unknown person who, who mocked the fans, you know, I'm

not, I'm not dumb. I know how to read. You know how to read. And we told that NASCAR fans aren't

good readers. It's a little frustrating. I mean, yeah, are there some fans who probably

fit a stereotype or don't, if you talk to them, maybe don't seem all upright? Sure. That's because,

like I said, there's a certain pop portion of the population and that is like that.

And there's a certain portion of all sports fans that are like that. Is that most NASCAR fans?

Of course not. Heck no. Most NASCAR fans are very smart. Just because I like to go see cars go

fast in circles doesn't make you stupid. And again, because the sport has complicated strategy,

I think you need to have intelligence to really truly understand it on a level beyond

so and so is faster and so and so. So I think NASCAR fans are very, very smart, very obviously

I'm biased because I'm a NASCAR fan. I consider myself educated and relatively smart. I'm not

saying I'm a genius or anything, but I think I'm smart. And I think you are too, Matthew. I think

everyone at T-Tech is very smart. And I think most of our readers are very smart. I would 99%.

So I think most people are pretty smart in general. So I'm obviously a little bit biased,

but to see somebody say that about their fans just had a good look. And if I were an NASCAR fan,

I'd be insulted. Well, I am an NASCAR fan, so I guess I am insulted. But yeah,

and it's also, and I don't want to, we don't have time to go into too much detail on this,

but it's also something I see a lot with other corporate entities. I've seen with other sports

like MLB and NFL, sometimes mocking their fans or doing things and insult their fans intelligence.

I think baseball is going to ruin what was a really good year in 2025 when it comes to the lockout

that may happen at the end of the 2026 season. I think it's going to hurt itself pretty badly

over money and other things. If I had time, I could think of tons of businesses

that have insulted their customers intelligence, whether it's the airlines, or fast food chains,

or whatever we deal with our daily life. We don't have time to get into that. But

to see NASCAR have some high profile, probably a high profile person, certainly a person who

either works for a race team or for a NASCAR, say that about their fans is frustrating. And as you

said, you quoted John Forrest, but part of the reason why NASCAR is so popular, obviously Forrest

is a drag race NHRA guy, but part of the reason why NASCAR got so popular and moved itself away

from the Southern regional sport that was stereotyped as a sport for dumb rednecks.

Part of the reason why it got so popular is because drivers were so accessible to fans

20, 25 years ago. And to sit there and have them insulted, I think is terrible. So

NASCAR does not come out looking very good in this, unfortunately. And, you know,

I've obviously had to work with NASCAR a little bit to cover the Chicago races. And

there are some really good people who helped us out within the NASCAR PR structure. But this

these particular, maybe it's not, maybe you shouldn't say it's NASCAR all together, but certainly

Phelps, Herbst and a few others don't look very good coming out of this.

Yeah. And, and it speaks to the type of, the type of attitude where, where

some of these people within NASCAR just feel, all right, you know, we're the only game in

town. If you'd, if you don't like to say that sport, like sell your charter and get out, like,

right? I mean, that's, yeah, we should talk about that more next week because we're running out of

that's been part of NASCAR for a long, long time. And if they, I feel, you know, need to grow,

I mean, you talk about baseball, baseball has changed, you know, and, and beside what's coming

down the pipe, I mean, I do feel that the game has gotten better over the last two, three,

three, four, five, six years, right? Because of listening to fans and other, other stakeholders

in the, in the game and the, the, you know, the sport itself has gotten better. So I do think

that NASCAR can learn from that. If they're trying to emulate stick and ball sports with these

playoffs, right, that they've been trying to do for the last so long, then take a page from that too,

take a page from that too, right? So anyways, but I also look forward to talking about, you know,

because I know there's got to be a change coming in the way that the playoffs are going to be run

for 2026. So looking forward to talking to that too in future episodes. Yeah, absolutely. We'll

have enough time today, but we spent a lot of time and at least I did and I'm long winded and

that's my fault. We spent a lot of time on the, the implications of the insults and frustrations,

but I think we really should talk a little more as we dig into this lawsuit about NASCAR's iron

fist ruling style and whether there's room for pushback and for people like Michael Jordan,

who's a very competitive person, who's never had a lot of respect for ownership as a bold fan, I know.

So we'll get into that further down the line, but we only have about a minute left. So Matthew,

thank you so much for your time. Much appreciated and we will dig further into this NASCAR story

because it's going to be ongoing. I can't tell you when because things may change week to week,

but we'll get into this as the off season, as the off season rolls on. So thank you for listening

to the NASCAR segment here on the Truth About Cars podcast and Matthew, thank you for your time.

Thank you.

That's all for this week's Truth About Cars podcast. I am Tim Healy,

T-Tex managing editor and you can find us for every to your podcast or online at ttac.com.

That's t-tech.com or the truth about cars all spelled out.com. We thank James Bell and Matthew

guy for their time and we thank Matt Poskey for editing. Most of all, we thank you for listening.

Have a happy Thanksgiving and we'll see you next time.

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