Going Deeper On The Future Of Mobile Service

Hello, and welcome to today's Truth about Cars podcast. I am Tim Healy, the managing editor,

and today we're talking about mobile service, winter tires, and the late Greg Biffle. We

chat with the Mitch Chanderano from Kirby about the latest in mobile service. T-Tech

contributor Matthew Guy and I talk winter tires, and we also discuss the death of retired NASCAR

driver Greg Biffle. But first, buying a car should feel secure. Start to finish. That's why you

should buy your next ride on eBay. See, eBay's got everything, from classics to trucks and imports.

Now with secure purchase, sellers and titles are verified, and financing, delivery, and insurance

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protection. So buy your next car in eBay. eBay. Things people love. Secure purchase is powered

by Car Modeler Services LLC in eBay subsidiary. If you like what you hear on Truth about Cars

podcast, please go ahead and leave us a review. You can also find us online at ttech.com. That is

ttac.com or the Truth about Cars all spelled out.com. We are your home for car reviews, car news,

opinions, and so much more. Here on the Truth about Cars podcast, we're always talking about the

stuff that we use in our homes, in our cars, and on our cars. And today's topic is very important,

especially for the winter. And as always, I have Matthew Guy, T-Tech contributor with me.

Matthew, how are you doing today?

Hi, Tim. I'm doing quite well. How about you today?

I'm doing well too. So we're talking winter tires today, huh?

Yeah, winter tires. And it's funny because we often think, I mean, as gear heads, and a lot of

people who are our listeners, our gear heads is the reason you're here. But sometimes tires are

treated, you know, like either a necessary evil or commodities, or spending money on tires,

sometimes can feel that way. Because to most eyes, they all look the same, right? They're big black

circles. They're on, you know, they're on your car. You don't really give much thought until a

mechanic says, Hey, your tires are worn out, you need new ones. And then it's a big expense all at

once. So I can understand why, you know, sometimes you talk about tires, people are like, Well,

who cares? Well, you know, we should care, especially in the wintertime, because there's a lot of

technology in winter tires, even compared to 10 years ago. And there's a lot of really good

technology both in there's two main things in winter tires that are important for our company to

get right in order for a winter tire to maintain traction and give any better traction than an

average off season. And one is molecular, and one is mechanical. And when they talk about

molecular, they're talking about the compound, they're talking about the ingredients that are in

the rubber compound. So what physically the tire is made out of what the rubber is made out of, I

should say. And these are all closely guarded secrets, right? It's all like a witch's brew of

this, that and the other thing. Tire companies do like to brag sometimes about some of the, you

know, renewable things that they put in Michelin talks a lot about rice husks that they use a

little bit, not as filler, but as a substitute for like silica, for example, because that's sometimes

can be hard or expensive or destructive to come by. So using rice husks allows them to take

something that might have been, you know, composted otherwise, and instead goes into the tires to

add a little bit of traction. So with with the molecular part of a tire, that's what they mean.

When they talk about the mechanical part of a winter tire, they're talking about the tread pattern,

and that's, you know, what you could see that, right? That stuff is easily copied. And that's why

you have leading tire companies like Nokia, and for example, with they have a brand of tires called

Haka-Polita, which is fun to say, hard to spell, but gives great winter traction. And part of that

tires secret sauce is the tread pattern that is on the face of the tire. There's a lot of a lot

of thought and a lot of science and a lot of engineering that goes into those into those

tread blocks. And if you look very closely at a tread block in a winter tire, you'll notice that

there are little cuts in it. And those are intentional. Sometimes there is zigzag, like a saw.

Sometimes they are straight across in a winter tire. They're mostly these saw shaped ones. And

those are called sipes. S-I-P-E-S, you might not know the term. And their purpose is as the tires

being pressed into the cold surface, whether that's ice or packed snow or even, you know, wet

pavement, those sites open up just a little bit. And cumulatively, they actually add a lot of

attractive properties to the tire itself. It gives it more biting edges for lack of a better

term. And a tire, you know, like the Nokia and Hakka Paleta, is able to accelerate and consequently

brake and also corner have lateral grip much better than a all season or even all weather tire

because of those sipes and other parts of the mechanical composition of that tire. So it's

pretty cool. There's a lot of other options out there as well, you know, because tire treads are

easily copied. But it's the it's the it's the molecular part that is also very, very important

to getting right as a tire manufacturer. So sticking with sticking with a leading tire brand,

I feel was very important for those reasons. And I know it's a lot of money. I know it is. But

tires really, they're the only those four fist sized patches of rubber, really the only things

that are touching the road, right? So, you know, all the ABS and all of the ADAS systems and all of

those things, they're all great. But if those four patches of rubber are subpar that are actually

touching the road, then those systems aren't going to work to the best of their ability.

Yeah, yeah. So you covered the detail really, really nicely. But I would just say in the higher

level view, you know, without even having to get into all the specifics of the engineering,

which again, you did a great job, Matthew. Thank you. I would always say to anyone who,

if you have a car on summer tires, switch to winter tires. I know it's extra money. I know you

got to figure out where to store your summers. Most large shops will do it for you. dealerships

will do it for you. But switch, I mean, if you have all seasons, that's one thing you can probably

most all season compounds, you can probably run all year round. I don't want to get too into the

weeds because it can depend on the different brand of tire and it can depend on the different type

of tire and the vehicle you're driving as well. And whether it's front wheel drive, all wheel drive,

an SUV or rear wheel drive, a sports car. So yeah, so I was going to say, it obviously depends on

your vehicle. But if you have summer tires on a sports car or sports sedan, for the love of God,

switch the winter for your own safety and the safety of those around you.

You're exactly right. And you talk about the safety of those around you. If you have a

a tire and you know, third parties, you don't need to just take a tire company's word for it.

Because of course, they're going to say, Hey, you know, you need two sets of tires and this one

is better than the other one for different purposes. But you know, lots of independent tests

have shown that winter tires will stop more appropriately. They'll stop better. I'm trying

to start more quickly. Thank you for you. Thank you. Then then equivalently size all

season, they're all weather tire. And even if it's only 10 feet, 10 feet doesn't seem like a lot,

you know, as we're talking, even five feet doesn't seem like a lot. But that can be the

difference between stopping safely behind the person who's in front of you and running into

them and rear ending them, right? Or stopping before the intersection or going right through

it and getting t boned by someone. You know, so I do think and one of the cool things

that is more of a not semantics, but you notice that our listeners will notice that we've talked

about winter tires, we don't call them snow tires. And I do that very consciously because

winter tires work best when it's below 45 degrees Fahrenheit. And that's when the compounds really

start to work and stay supple, you know, and stay in contact with the road really good winter

tires do that. And so it doesn't have to be snow on the ground in order for these winter tires to

work. So just simply cold conditions is something that any driver can benefit from having a set

of winter tires on their car, even if you don't get a lot of snow, just simple cold is something

that, you know, you'd want to have winter tires on for cold and obviously ice in black ice or

patches of ice. And Matthew, of course, you get these tires at eBay motors, right? Yeah,

that's something that you can get these sort of tires on a place like eBay motors. The neat thing

about that site is that they have, you know, their perfect fit program where you plug in your type of

car, you know, all of the different specifics, and then it will suggest if the thing that you're

looking at tires in this case is actually going to fit your car. So that's super, super great. So

that the things that you get fit the first time, because there's a few things worse in life than

getting parts for your car that show up and don't fit. Right? That's super, super annoying. So

especially with tires, which are not exactly easy to put on and off. And those are not usually

required professional assistance. I don't know too many tree mechanics to have a tire change your

machine in their house. No, me either. Me either. I've changed some, but I mean, this was certainly

not for road cars. I've changed some using some very unapproved methods. But I would not, I would

not recommend that for road cars. Yeah, the average backyard mechanic can take a wheel off and on

with ease. It's a basic maneuver. But actually changing tires requires the proper machinery,

which again, very few people have in their homes. Absolutely. And just as an aside before we go,

make sure your tire pressures are good, you know, because that's something

the cold air can really mess with. So all modern cars have tire pressure monitoring systems these

days. Keep an eye on that. If the light comes on, on your dashboard, if you're not sure what the

light that is, go to your run to your run, don't walk to your owner's manual just so that you can

know what to look for. But it generally looks like a flat tire with an exclamation point in it and

it's orange. So making sure that you have proper inflation is also important that you can do on

your own. There's a lot of there's a lot of discussion around have to pay for air at gas

stations these days. There are ways around that too. And maybe that could be a topic for another day.

But yeah, absolutely. Yeah, but we can, you know, just as drivers, it's incumbent upon us to make

sure that we've got like you said, safe for us and other people on the road. So making sure your

properly inflated is also really important. Yeah, absolutely. So with that, we'll go ahead and end

our Stuff We Use segment. Also, Matthew, anything else you want to say about winter tires and or

safety? Nothing else to add. But thank you, Tim, for talking about the subject with me today.

All right. Thank you. And we'll be, we'll be ending our Stuff We Use segment here on today's

Truth About Cars podcast.

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Dealer Services LLC in eBay subsidiary. Here on the Truth about Cars podcast, we are with

Amit Chandarana from Kirby. He is the CEO there at Kirby. I believe it's spelled C-U-R-B-E-E.

Is that correct? That is correct, Tim. We had you out a little bit ago to talk about what Kirby

is and what it does. And now we're having you on because you've identified that the average

car owner passes 16 service shops and dealerships before they get their vehicle service. So

can you walk us through why that is and how you identified that to start?

Yeah, absolutely. So the 16 is a report that refers to the data driven report that we have

in the concept highlighting the 16 to 1 ratio of independent auto repair shops to franchise

dealerships. You would ask how that came about. Well, essentially, it's data that everyone's

looking at. Everyone's essentially looking at the same amount of information. And those primary

data points in there is that the average, you know, the car dealership number has gone from

30,000, I believe, in 2008 down to about 18,300 now. So it's truncated quite a bit. And in the

last three years, the independents have actually gained 30,000 places to do business. The reason

this has taken place is simply because of the aging fleet and the change of consumer. The average

car has now hit 13 years old. So that's the oldest a vehicle record has been in history.

And so it's pushing more service needs, right? Yeah, for sure, for sure. So if you if you sort

of just take that simple inverse math, you know, I don't want to get too too complicated here,

but you take the 300,000, you divide it by that 18,300. The simplicity of marketing was it's the

16. So for every time an average American leaves their home and goes to their franchise dealer,

they have 16 choices on the way. And so that's where we started our thesis to start unpacking

and, you know, essentially triple clicking into that. Yeah, okay. So I want to unpack a little

bit more. So first of all, why are there 16 independent shops? I think I already know the

answer, but I'm going to pick your brain anyway. Why are there 16 independent shops before you

get to your first dealer? My personal speculation would be that because of franchise dealer laws

and because of OEMs not wanting too many dealers too close together, that you might have you might

live in a town of 100,000 people, the next town over is another 100,000 people. And there's 10

miles in between. And maybe you've got a Ford in town A and a Ford in town B and you drive a Ford.

And that's just the only two Ford dealers. Whereas you go in between, there are 16 or more

independent shops. Is that about right or is there some other reason that I've not quite thought of?

No, no, you've directionally got it. I mean, you know, ultimately, franchise dealers have

another component to them, which is the sales department, new and used finance department.

So, you know, sales per outlet are a very important thing to a general manager or a

dealer principal who invest their own capital to build these dealerships. The OEMs want to protect

that sales per outlet also, right? They want to see healthy dealers selling a lot of vehicles,

making fair money so that they can reinvest back in that consumer experience. So I think sales per

outlet is number one, which again, not a lot of OEMs have what you would call a CCO or a customer

convenience outlet. They don't allow the Toyota dealership or the Ford dealership to put a service

center three, four miles down the road to address the density. You have to basically have it at the

dealership for the most part. And then second, I think you were sort of tipping towards this is

it's easier to set up a Jiffy loop type of environment or a Joe's environment where you

can put four service bays in and get operational with some technicians without having to go through

factory trained technicians, just to be a general mechanic. You can set that up for, you know,

the capital expenditure that is, you know, probably one 50th of what it is to put a

dealership in, if not one with 100. Yeah. And also most Jiffy loops take up a lot less space

than a full on dealership. There's not inventory of new and used cars. There's not a whole lot of,

there's not a whole parking lot full of inventory. But you basically anytime, at least here in

Chicago where I live, and obviously Chicago has in the city itself, whether it's really densely

packed, you have even less room than you do in the suburbs for, for these quick loop for Jiffy

loops or, or John's, you know, John's car repair or whatever. You know, there are some shops that

they barely have a parking lot. They didn't have two or three, maybe four bays. I've seen

some where there's just one in and out, you know, one in transcend one out, out to the alley or

whatever. So obviously you need less space too. So what is, what is keeping, how do I say this?

There are some reasons why a consumer would go to a franchise dealer over an independent shop.

We know that warranty, we play a part, you know, some independent shops might specialize, say,

maybe in a foreign car and you drive an American car, so you pass that shop by. But what is,

but if all things are equal, if it's a customer pay job or whatever, or an oil change or something,

it's not covered on a warranty, why would a customer go past the 16 independent shops and go to a

dealer and then we'll kind of get into Kirby's place after that? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's

actually a slightly different answer. They're not going as much. Now, they may, and there's a lot of

folks that believe that the factory train technician looking after my vehicle is super important.

Maybe they do like the coffee and the couches and the environment and kicking tires while you're

hanging out. Maybe a dealership offers pick up and delivery and loaner cars. You know,

those are all sort of capital heavy. But the data shows that they're not necessarily going there as

much. You know, in the 16, we unpack everything from Bureau of Labor Statistics to Cox Automotive

and JD Power and our own first party data. But it shows you that the customers, even the customers

with the first two year old vehicle, so model year two years or less, have now tipped to going to

in preferring independence more than the factory OEM or the dealership. And if you think about it,

there's a lot of programs that OEMs have that subsidize and or pay for directly a customer to

come in for the first two or three years. And yet these customers are choosing and they're from a

data standpoint are preferring independence. So I would say that customers like to go to dealerships

when you can get an appointment and it's easy to do so and you don't have to spend an average of

two and a half hours there when it's available. The concern is is because these vehicles are so

old, right? And again, we can triple click here real quick. Why are cars on the road so much older?

Well, you know, taxes and tariffs and interest rates and EV and non EV and the average vehicle

price just hit $50,000 and payments are over $700. So the reality of it is they're keeping these

cars longers because they have to. So when they keep these cars longer, the capacity constraints,

the convenience constraints, the ease of doing business, perception of price,

all these things are why the market share for retention is starting to go down.

We would all like to go to our dealership. In fact, they're not that much more expensive. And in

fact, the data shows they're not more expensive, but it's sort of inconvenient and that's that in

essence is the strategic call that the 16 is upleveling. So is that where Kirby is coming in

as a B2B mobile service component? Yeah, essentially, look, we're a tool in the toolbox.

One of the primary reasons that customers don't go to dealerships is because of convenience. In

essence, you know, time is the currency of the world. The convenience factor is primary. I mean,

you look at Amazon Prime, to DoorDash, to Chipotle deliveries, customers aren't going primarily for

those reasons. So Kirby is essentially upleveling this call to action that mobile service is a tool

in that toolbox. It's not the only answer by any means. There are other ways to be able to address

that. But certainly it is a tool in the toolbox for dealers to be able to address the shrinking

retention numbers and the expense control that needs to take place for building out more facilities.

And so what we've done is, as you know, and someone just to reset the context,

we're a mobile service platform. And so we provide a software solution that helps the

dealerships operationalize their service department for mobile. You know, we know we do not have

tools or trucks or technicians, but we have a lot of depth around how to operate the business

and how to use our software to do so. And usually dealers are going out with, you know,

they could do it upfitted vehicles that are $20,000 less, or there are dealers that have

$150,000 fully kitted out with tire machines. Either way, they're using our software to go out

and operationalize the business. So if I'm hearing you correctly, dealers are losing

some service for whatever reason. And you're basically positioning Kirby as a way to bring

some of that business back by saying, okay, well, if someone doesn't want to drive to your shop

to do the work, we can go to them. Yeah, essentially, that allows the dealership to go out and offer

mobile service. We have a first party data that shows about 37% of whatever you can do in the

shop can be done out in the field. So there are OEMs that have incentives because they're, again,

all of the data is public. Everyone's reading the same information. We're all reading from the same

song sheet. There are OEMs that will offer incentives to dealerships to go out and perform some of

these services like recalls or oil changes, first appointments. These are being subsidized by

manufacturers to regain that customer under the umbrella under that retention number. And

the other thing it's doing, Tim, it's it's alleviating this capacity concern that's taking

place, right? A lot of dealers are either at capacity, cannot purchase more land, they can't

build up, or the drive is just slammed between 7am and 11am every morning. And the ability to go

mobile with some of these easier, smaller, less expensive jobs allows you to unlock the capacity

to backfill the shop. Yeah, and I think there's a couple of things here that really kind of,

as a consumer, or in my case, and I don't know, you know, I guess I would consider myself a

observer of the industry, in addition to being a journalist, obviously, I think, you know, if I

owned a car, I'm thinking about where I live and understand how far the nearest dealers are.

And so, you know, and also where I live, traffic plays a part right too. So some of the dealers

aren't that far in terms of miles, but time to get there takes a while because it's city traffic.

And I'm thinking about, you know, where I grew up, and when I used to work in dealerships as well,

and just how long it might take to get from the house I grew up into the nearest car dealership

or whatever brand. Yeah, so I can see that I can definitely see the convenience aspect of it,

maybe saving yourself a 15 minute drive or a 30 minute drive or longer. And what you said too

about backfilling the shop makes a lot of sense, because when I worked in dealership, I was in

the service drive, and especially on a Saturday morning when people are most people are off work,

and we were actually in your mall to the one dealership I worked at. So it was particularly

busy, particularly between Thanksgiving and a little bit after New Year's, you would get,

you know, you come to work and you shop doors and open at seven, you're there at 645, 650,

and you're looking out the window, and you're like, Oh, man, the next 45 minutes to an hour,

I'm not going to have a break. I'm not going to, I'm not going to have any rust whatsoever.

The line for oil changes is up to the street, you know. So I think that that's a really

good way to look at it for a dealer is maybe you can maybe you can alleviate some of that

log jam by having mobile service. Yep, it's absolutely, it's you're exactly correct. And

that's not only is that, you know, one of the primary drivers of this or the primary value

propositions, but then you have all the ancillary things that you're tying back to this, right?

The the CSI factor, right? Customers are super happy that you came to them. So

the CSI is very high. You're backfilling the shop. The ability to have safer vehicles out there,

we have 77 million open recalls in the United States, a number probably went up in the last

couple hours, 20 million or 27% of those are just software updates and inspections. So those vehicles

that have these safety concerns that need to be resolved can be easily knocked out with

lightly upfitted vehicles, Wi Fi, OEM issued computers and laptops. And again, it's it's

not only good for the consumer, it's good for the dealer, it's good for the manufacturer,

NHTSA traffic, there's just a bunch of win win win wins when consumers take care of the vehicles

and the vehicles are safer. So I think when you look at mobile service as one of the components

to be able to address this, it allows a lot of folks to come together. And I hate to say this

win, because that consumer has a safer vehicle that's up to date, and they didn't have to take

the time out of their day. And you mentioned some time earlier, the NADA data on this is it's about

a two and a half hour average appointment right now at a dealership. And we just came back from

a training with 17 dealers. And the dealers will tell you the oil change takes about 33 minutes.

It's the greeter, the porter, the ASM, the cashier, moving the vehicles around parking them,

maybe the car, that's what's taken so long. So the reality is, if you time block that against

what you have to do, going out to go get an oil change and coming back is a three hour journey.

Whereas you could still be on your zoom call, having your vehicle taken care of in front of

your home, and probably be having to move away from your meeting or take a pause for 15 or 20

minutes when the technician comes up to you and tells you what they're going to do, and then they

take payment and close out your RO. Yeah, believe me. You just gave me PTSD from 20 years ago

when I was working as a service advisor, particularly on Saturday mornings, when it was oiled,

the bulk of the work was oil changes and tire rotations and basic maintenance.

Different dealerships I worked at had different policies, so I don't want to get too

into the weeds there, but one place I worked pretty much was the express loop. So that was all

basic maintenance, oil change, tire rotations, cabin air filters, that sort of thing. And the

other place I worked at was there was no express loop. The whole service bay was kind of combined

into one thing. But on weekends, the technician, there were only so many technicians who had to

work a weekend, I think it was only three or four out of the 12 or 15 that would be on a weekday.

So they really encouraged any heavy repairs to come back on Monday. But again, it was always basic

stuff, oil change, tire rotation. But both places, I definitely remember people come in and they'd

be like, oh, well, I thought I was going to have a half hour oil change, and I'm sitting here for

the two and a half hour numbers, sounds just about right. And everything you said,

it was a lot of times it was, they had to wait for the car in front of them.

And oil changes don't take that long, though. You said 33 minutes on average, I think it was

even faster than that when I was, because a lot of times the oil would drain quickly and

the techs had pulled out an oil, oil gun, so they didn't have to get quartz oil, they just had it

coming out from the ceiling. But, you know, there was there was always the fact that if you're the

third car in line, you'd play for the first two cars ahead of you. And then if anyone had a problem

at the cashier, cut a car declined, or someone had a question on their bill, that jams things

up, it's someone just making chit chat at this with the service advisor just catching up with

their old friends, that would slow things down. So it was always kind of, you know, it was all

the really slow things down the most was just that there were cars sitting there in the in the shop

waiting for an open bay. That's what slow things down the most. And we also usually wash customers

cars too. That was another thing that kind of delayed the process. But I think I think the

thing that you take away there and I mean, I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to. No, no, you're fine.

I was about to wrap up anyway. Yeah, no, I didn't mean to take you down to the

hurt of the PTSD lane. But here, your thought process on everything you just mentioned is

immediately under delivering on the expectations. And so that CSI factor is starting to go down,

right? All those wait times, see your vehicle move around, having to hang out and drink the

fourth cup of coffee. That's just driving that CSI back. And that's why sometimes they're not

coming back. Yeah, and we would definitely under promise and over deliver or attempt to anyway.

And we would say, we would get a sense of, we would know after the first half hour or hour

after the doors open, we would know, you know, okay, people are rotating through in about 45

minutes, let's tell them an hour and a half. So that for so that were 45 minutes, that's half

the time they expected. And the CSI will be good. And people will be pleasantly surprised. And I

pretty sure restaurants do that same thing. I know that I've been waiting for a table at a restaurant

at a place that doesn't take reservations and you walk in, they say it'll be 30 minutes.

And then 10 minutes later, they're coming to get you for a table. So I understand that,

people do that. But yeah, you're right, that CSI thing, that wait time really does kill it. And

I guess what I'm trying to say in so many words, and it's a bit of a long tangent,

but is that I can see how mobile service would really change that dynamic for a dealer.

Yeah, couldn't agree more.

So just switch your gears a little bit. What kind of work, I may have asked you this the last time,

what kind of work are you seeing being done at people's homes? So is it oil change? Is it over

the air updates with a laptop? Is it stuff that requires a little more involvement, like maybe

you bring a lift and lift the car off the ground to rotate tires? Is it stuff that doesn't need to,

the hood has to open, but the car can stay on the four tires without being lifted. So,

maybe some work on top of the engine, maybe an old car would be spark plug change,

something like that. What kind of work are you seeing being done through Kirby as you go through

the data? And how much of it is people trying to save time and not go to the dealer? And how

much of it is just like, I want all the work done here, so it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, so we have a term called mobile friendly services or the five minute fixes. So from this

data, we know that about 37% of the services can be done on the go. And there's five buckets,

if you will. There's the filters, fluids and flushes bucket, there's the blades, bulbs and

batteries. Oil is a centralized bucket. Some can do oil changes, some are just going to check your

oil and top off that fluid. Tire and wheel is certainly there, tire repair, flat repair,

actually recommending a replacement. There's a lot of deals that do

curb rash and damage to take care of on the customer's vehicle out in the field. And then it's

simple software updates and recalls. So those five buckets basically make up for nearly 40%

of what can be done. What can be done at a shop can be done via mobile. And typically when you're

doing a mobile service appointment, you're getting good information from a customer as to why you're

coming out. So you're going to go out there to go do an oil change and do a reflash.

We have this, you know, part of our services is not only do we, you know, build the software

and help you operationalize it, but we spend a significant amount of time on training and

change management. And one of the things our, you know, head of dealer success talks about is

these five minute fixes where the parts department the day before creates these small crates,

because he knows the VIN numbers of the vehicles he's going out to the next day. And then he's

going to take out the blade, the bulb, the batteries, anything that the customer,

cabin air filters are a wonderful way to be able to show a customer. This is pretty filthy.

You might need to change this thing in the next couple of weeks, or I can take care of it

while I'm here with you now. And so customers, because they value time, they value that convenience

factor, they're really open to it because the trust factor and the transparency is super high,

because you can see exactly what's taking place right in front of you, but not behind a wall.

Yeah, yeah, that the upsell part of that, I think makes sense. I know, again, back in my day, we

I don't know if they still do this now, but the mechanic with a service advisor might walk a dirty

filter out to the waiting area to, to, to try and ask a consumer if they want to do it that day

instead of waiting. The I don't think that's, I don't think that's happening very much anymore.

But now we're making sure that the customer can see that that's certainly not happening anyways.

Yeah, it's a little bit, I don't want to say ugly, but it's a little bit

aesthetically not the most pleasing thing to have a dirty filter near someone's snacks and coffee.

The next question I wanted to ask you, and I may have asked this before, and I do apologize,

it's been a few months since we spoke. Kirby is obviously aimed at dealers right now, but do you

see yourself ever aiming at independent shops or chains like Firestone or something like that?

I mean, they could also do mobile service as well, right?

They can, and some of them do it. We've certainly gotten some phone calls from some entities outside

the franchise space. Our full focus right now is on the franchise dealer space. You know,

we're always going to be open to listening to other folks that might need the services or be

able to use the software. But we're genuinely focused on helping the dealer body be able to

address the customer concern and the retention loss. Excellent, excellent. So is there anything

else on this, on this, those 16 that you really want to get into that we've not yet covered?

No, just the one paid political announcement. I mean, if you literally Google Kirby the 16,

you know, a nice synopsis comes up and you can go to our website and immediately download it.

You don't have to get emails sent to you or anything like that. And I will say our team does

a wonderful job of making things super digestible, easy to read and visually appealing. So it's a

quick one. And I think most folks will enjoy it if they're interested in this type of stuff in our

industry. Yeah, I have the report in front of me as I've been kind of looking at it as we've been

talking. And again, I think, you know, this is just kind of us chatting, not quite as much a

question. But I think again, the time thing really is huge. And that was, you know, we were joking

about me having PTSD from my job 20 years ago. But that really was the biggest one of the biggest

complaints on CSI. Even when we told somebody it'll take two hours and only took an hour,

people would just, you know, they didn't want to hang hang at the dealership too long. And I

understand why, you know, you know, one wants to be at any appointment for too long. If you go to

the doctor, you don't want to sit in the waiting room too long, even with the distractions of our

cell phones, or waiting room TVs, or magazines, or games or coffee or whatever. Nobody wants to sit

too long, especially if they have young children who need to be entertained. There's also that factor.

Or older folks who who might, you know, aging parent might be needing care. People have oftentimes,

especially on a weekend, have errands lined up. So if oil change takes too long, that messes up the

rest of their day. So there's there's also that. Yeah, that was that was a big thing for us. What

I'm doing during that job was, you know, we're just consumers complaining that it took too long,

no matter how much warning we gave them that it was going to be busy and take a while. So I can

definitely see, you know, how mobile service would would really sort of change that game.

Yeah, there's no doubt it's a pretty big, it's a pretty thoughtful value proposition. It's, you

genuinely solving a lot of problems right now. And again, I think we may have covered this the

previous conversation, but just to remind our listeners, is there an extra cost to the consumer

for this? The answer is it depends. Most OEMs and most dealerships are not charging extra for

software updates and warranty or recall type of services. But there is a cost to going out and

doing this level of service, right? There's an investment made, and there's some costs there,

there's safety precautions and training that takes place. So there are dealers that will charge

$29.99 for a mobile service cost or an at home service, which is nothing that the I think,

I think society is not used to, right? I mean, we pay 20% just to have a burrito delivered,

and nobody blinks about that. So when you're getting $159, $200 oil change done and someone's

charging $19.99 for that convenience factor, I don't think there's a lack of takers on that.

Yeah, and I would imagine the dealership does have to bear some cost, even if it's just the

basic cost of fuel to drive there, right? They probably have a pickup truck or a van with parts,

and I'm sure they have to pay either fuel or if it's an electric vehicle, the charging cost

just to get there. So even if you're just bringing a laptop and doing over the update,

and you're driving over there in a pickup truck, you probably burn a couple gallons of gas and

it's going to have a cost. So I can understand that.

Yeah, I mean, just like anything else, there's a sunk cost, right? There's a cogs or a cost to

do in business to anything, whether or not it's putting in a new service bay or the uniforms

or the coffee and the couches at the dealership. So everything's always going to have a cost to it,

but there's still a really good margin in the service departments, and that's why

more and more dealers are going to mobile service because they're continuing to double down on these

a high margin aspect of their business. Yeah, let's go ahead and wrap with that.

I think most of our listeners know, and this is in general, I don't know if it's true for

every particular dealer. So please don't at me if you work a dealer and it's not true for your

particular store. But in general, most dealers make more money off service than they do off sales.

I think that is an established fact is probably a strong word, but definitely a trend, I think,

maybe is the word I'm looking for. Yeah, it's on a percentage basis, right? The margins are much

higher in service than they are on the new vehicle side of the business. There's no doubt.

Yeah, so that's where I think mobile service will come in handy. And I think that's why

it sounds like from reading you correctly, it sounds like

that's why dealers are working with you at Kirby to do the mobile service, to retain customers

that they might otherwise lose because they don't want to lose that chunk of their business.

That's right. That's absolutely right.

Yeah, so with that, we'll go ahead and wrap. We've had Amit Chandarana from Kirby the CEO,

and thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you. Thanks, Tim.

Here on the Truth About Cars podcast, we are talking NASCAR as we do just about every week,

and as we do almost every week, we've got T-Tech contributor Matthew Guy with us.

How are you doing today, Matthew? Hey, Tim, doing all right.

Yeah, so today's topic is going to be a little heavy and a little sad. Most people probably saw

the news that retired NASCAR driver Greg Biffle, and it sounds like his wife and two children,

I believe that he only had two children, his wife and two children, one from a previous marriage,

I think, and then another child from his current marriage. If I have that correct, I'll double

check that, but it sounds like they were all, unfortunately, killed. Well, they were, no,

sounds like they were killed, unfortunately, in a plane crash, and I believe it was Thursday or

Friday, a week or so ago, a little over a week. By the time you hear this, it'll be

a little over a week. So they were killed in a plane crash. Greg Biffle was a pilot,

in addition to being a driver in the plane. I don't know if he was flying it or not,

if he just owned it, but he did fly helicopters, which we'll get to in a moment. But again,

a tragic death, and Matthew, I want to get your thoughts first. You actually

were paying more attention than NASCAR during Biffle's career than I was. I took a little break

from the sport for a variety of reasons, right around the time that he was most active, and I

just wasn't paying close attention during that time. You were. So I want to hear your thoughts

on Greg Biffle's career and his life. Yeah, just, I mean, just a heck of a driver and, you know,

all of the, all of the, all of the thoughts and condolences to all of the, you know,

Biffle family and friends and everyone, you know, who's, who's close to that family after

what happened, after what happened at Statesville, you know, regional airport. But I mean, Biffle,

he's, he's been with, you know, he was with Roush for his entire career and had some, had some

good success, right? I mean, if you're looking through the man's wind column, there's, there's,

there's winds everywhere, right? All the big tracks, California, Texas, Darlington,

right? You know, he really, Kansas, Dover. I mean, pretty much you name most of the tracks

Michigan and he's won at a lot of the major tracks and, right? I mean, and he's had some

really good success. Most of, most of his career was in the so-called, you know, what I call chase

era, right? I mean, after the chase for the cup was instituted for that type of playoff system,

because he went full time with Roush, I believe in 2003, I think, ish. But, you know, from that,

if memory serves, I mean, he finished as high as third in the points. I know there was another

time he finished fifth, that was doof. That was around 2012. He would have finished fifth

in points. So it's, it's, you know, he's the type of driver who showed up every week, always seemed

to have, you know, the backing of, of, of his team. And I know that might sound like a strange

thing to say, but there's a lot of, in some teams, there can be a lot of, you know, personality

clashes and dynamics and things of that nature. And I never got that feeling, you know, either

watching, racing, or listening to, listening to the radio or anything like that, right? You

know, you just, you just never really got that clash sort of, of, of feeling when you, when you

heard Biffle's team talking to him and vice versa on the radio. So it's, it all speaks to the type

of person, you know, that, that, that he was, you know, and, and he competed in, he competed in

NASCAR's top division for a long, long time. Something else that he also did, which was,

I thought was kind of cool, was that he tested, you know, some stadium super trucks.

You might remember those, or no of those, our listeners might know of those. The stadium super

trucks is a Robbie Gordon type deal originally. And they've got these trucks, which are generally

used for off-road, right? I mean, just huge travel in the suspension, but sometimes they'll

put them on paved tracks as kind of like a preview, right? As like an ancillary race to

something bigger and getting in and strapping into stadium super trucks is such a trip, right?

Just because of the, the skill that's required to handle those things upon their landing,

because they hand, they get so much air and to be able to handle that on the, on the land is

something that's absolutely, absolutely bonkers. So I, I think that's, I think that's super,

super cool and speaks to the man's, you know, wheel man ability behind the wheel.

You know, he, he was in stadium super trucks at least, it was after, so it was after he finished,

so I would say about 2018, 2019 is before COVID anyways, that he started, it was stadium super

trucks. And those things like Sheldon Creed, Ryan Beat, those types of guys were there in that sort

of, I guess, nucleus of drivers for that, that particular effort. And those trucks, they don't,

you know, they're kind of generic on the front on purpose, right? They're not, you know, a Chevy

or not a Ford. And then that appeals to some drivers like Biffle as well, because haven't been

associated with Ford at Rausch for, you know, forever so long. Sometimes you get tied to one

particular brand. And that doesn't seem to matter so much when you go to a thing like

stadium super trucks. So I think, and you know, the man also did, you know, Iraq stuff. I want to

say if memory serves me correctly, I mean, it was over 20 years ago, but he definitely had a top five

that in, in, in an Iraq race. I don't know if it was Daytona or Talldega. Yeah, I don't remember

to be, I wasn't watching back then. Yeah, it was over, it was over a, it was over a decade ago.

And, oh, and don't forget as well. This is something I'm thinking about now, just as we're

talking about stadium super trucks and off road and stuff. He started a series for like racing,

racing, oh, what's the word I'm looking for? Side by sides. Yeah. And like, that series has grown

a little bit, right? More than a little bit, really. The series has grown. So I mean, starting

a series for, you know, racing for side by sides and stuff like that is just speaks to the type

of guy who was, and he seemed to be, you know, well on track pun intended, right? For a lot of

success. And he certainly did. And you talked about Tim, his Hall of Fame nominations, that's

something that has happened for NASCAR, their Hall of Fame. He's, he was either nominated before or

whatever. I don't, I don't remember how, how that went. Tim, do you have, do you have any thoughts

on that with the? Yeah, I'm not quite sure how the process works. I don't have it in front of me,

but he was nominated. He's not in the Hall of Fame officially. It sounds like he, he will be,

it sounds like he would have been eventually regardless of, you know, obviously, if he,

if he hadn't passed away in the playing crash, he would have been, you know, I, I,

my understanding, I can look it up real quick, but he has not been officially inducted.

Um, so he was a nominee, nominated nominee, uh, something like that.

nominee, yeah. Yeah, nominee. So, uh, yeah, and there's a reason why, um,

he, he basically, I have, I have his stats in front of me here, at least a few of them.

He won 19 races. He did not win a championship, I don't believe, but he did finish second to Tony

Stewart, 20 years ago in 2005. And as we all know, Stewart has shifted his focus now that he's in

NHRA drag racing, although he just became a father. So I'm not sure if he pulled back from,

from racing or not, but he was active relatively recently in NHRA. Um, Biffle, back to Biffle,

was top 10, six times. So he was always in the hunt. Uh, I don't have in front of me how many

years he raced, but he was still racing that, that long ago, uh, at least part time in Cup Series.

So he, he, you know, he was obviously, he's also considered one of the top 75 drivers of all time,

which is, I didn't realize that. Cause like I said, Matthew, I had, there's a lot of reasons

behind this. It was partly just because of other sports or taking my interest partly because I

had stuff going on in my own life that just kept me busy on Sundays, but I just didn't watch a ton

of cup racing in the, in the, uh, what we call the odds and early 2010s. I got really back into it.

I would watch like the Daytona 500 and a few big races and, and maybe when they came to Chicago

area, um, or, or the, or, you know, famous tracks like that, maybe watch some of the road races.

But I got back in the NASCAR, not because of this podcast, but a few years before, uh,

partly because I attended a couple of races as a fan. I rode America and then, um,

also just COVID partly had something to do with it because it was the only game in town for a

little while when, when, when everyone else was under lockdown because it was, it was the most COVID

safe sport. Uh, and there were a few other reasons why I got back in the NASCAR and certain younger

drivers caught my attention, stuff like that. But, um, there was no, it wasn't like I disliked

the sport or anything. It just got kind of, I just sort of lost touch with it for a little bit.

Uh, it happens in your sports fans. Sometimes I like, I've not been following the NBA, which

I used to be a huge basketball fan because the Chicago Bulls have been mediocre. I have lost

interest in the NBA and a national level a little bit over the past five, six years and just have

not followed up the way I used to. So it happens. And again, maybe I'll float back into it with the

Bulls are good or, or the next time, you know, LeBron's getting older, but maybe the next LeBron

comes along. I'll start paying attention, but, uh, I don't want to digress too much here. But

anyway, I wasn't watching Biffle's career. That was a long way of saying it. I didn't see,

so I'm a little, um, pleasantly surprised that he was top 75. I didn't realize how good he was

because NASCAR has been around for 70 years ish. I don't have the exact number at 1959. I think

it was probably the first year we really think a NASCAR. So a little under 70 years and you know,

you're, you're, you're thinking about Fireball Roberts and Dale Earnhardt and Kale Yarborough

and Bill, Bill Elliott and Rusty Wallace and Martin Martin and, and all the current guys like

Denny Hamlin and, and Joey Logano. There's way more than 75 drivers who, who are, who are excellent

drivers and to be in the top 75 without even winning a championship is, is pretty impressive.

That was huge. It was absolutely huge. I mean, he's had a lot of success, um, on the track and,

and had really good, and, and speaking, you know, to the man's personality and the man,

just how he operated, right? I mean, he wasn't, um, flying this particular plane the other day.

But he, as you mentioned, he is a pilot and, and has had numerous, uh, you know,

flights up in the air and, um, something that really stuck with me was last year. There was

the mean hurricane. Yeah, I was going to bring that up. I'm glad you did. Okay. Right on. Um,

I mean, just really impacted, you know, that area where there's a lot of NASCAR teams,

there were a lot of people right up in the hills, especially, um, who were cut off or

didn't have internet and stuff like that. And yeah, right? I mean, he was applying skills to,

to deliver supplies and, um, internet service through the, through the Starlink, you know,

type of, uh, type of product that is able to be brought around and set up, right? So, I mean,

just residents of Western North Carolina, that was, that was something that speaks to the man's,

you know, personality and speaks to his character. So it's something that

a lot of people are talking about and rightly so. It was interesting as I was reading about one

family that was located, um, that he helped locate stranded family. And the family was using

a mirror to reflect light from the sun, right? Oh wow. Yeah. And that's what they were using for

their, uh, signal, right? And then, um, you know, he was part of the, uh, Greg Biffle was part of

the team, uh, that found him. I don't know if he was the only one in the, in the, in the chopper,

or if there were a bunch of people in the chopper who were looking for people, but that was, that

was part of it. So smart thinking on the part of the family, of course, but then also the

alertness of Biffle and the people that were working with him to rescue those people. So

speaks to the man's character. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to, to, to talk about that too briefly. Um,

you, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Uh, yeah. The helicopter thing we all remember,

uh, last fall, last September or October, I forget the exact month, but

Hurricane Helene hit North Carolina, wash out a lot of roads. If you've been to the Asheville

area, and I have a couple of times on press programs, you know, that once you get in the

mountains, um, it can be some of these roads, some of these, uh, smaller towns and, and,

and these howlers and whatever you, what, what have you are inaccessible if the roads get washed

out. And, um, FEMA was the federal emergency management association was struggling a little

bit to get there. And, you know, I don't want to get political. I think most of the struggles

from FEMA were, were not necessarily competent related. It was more or competence related. It

was more just that the physical terrain made it almost impossible for FEMA to get to stranded

people with, with roads washed out and that sort of thing. So I think having, uh, Biffle,

having people like that who had access to, to aircraft and, you know, and we just wouldn't

volunteer their time and their money. I'm sure I don't fly, but I'm sure, um, getting a helicopter

up in the air is no, just the cost of fuel alone. I'm sure it's not cheap. So, so having,

and obviously Greg Biffle probably had, probably earned plenty of money over his career, but,

you know, having the, having the, the time and the money to do that and help out was just an

amazing thing. It shows that he was a good guy. Uh, and just want to clarify a couple things. So

that I, at the outset of the, of the segment, I, um, I did not have the, the details of the, of the

crash in front of me, but, uh, so it did, the people who did pass away were Biffle, his wife,

Christina, his 14 year old daughter, Emma, and his five year old son, Ryder, and also, um, two

gentlemen who's, I don't know their connection to the Biffle family, three gentlemen, Dennis

Stutton and his son, Jack, and I don't have an age for Jack. And then Craig Wadsworth, I don't know,

if they were business associates, um, uh, you know, uh, maybe coworkers, maybe, maybe just friends

of the family. So not quite sure how long, how, I'm sorry, go ahead. I think Dennis was the pilot.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I didn't see who was flying the plane. So, um, that was, that was who was killed.

And then I wanted to also clarify the Hall of Fame stuff from NASCAR's website. And it doesn't

completely, it's missing a little bit on some detail here that would help, but it says every year

15 nominees are selected by representatives from NASCAR and the NASCAR Hall of Fame, as well as

track owners and media. Each year, the nomination committee, which is 22 members, um, they'll select

10 nominees for the modern era, which would be obviously current drivers and the drivers that

you and I grew up watching, Matthew, the 80s and 90s. And the, um, and then there's a, the

honor's committee, which is 43 members, including all living Hall of Famers, selects five nominees

for the pioneer ballot. So I don't know what year they exactly cut off the pioneer from the modern

era. I would guess sometime in the 70s, but the pioneer ballot would be your, you know, your

early drivers, your, obviously Richard Petty's in the, it would be in that category, Fireball

Roberts, guys like that. So, um, 65 ballots or total or total are submitted. One from a fan vote

as well. And then that determines three inductees, two from the modern era ballot and one from the

pioneer ballot. And it doesn't say, it doesn't say, you know, what year they're like, so it sounds

like three go in each year, but it doesn't sound like what happened. It's hard to tell what happens

if you're nominated and don't get in that year. Like, is there a cutoff like in baseball? I know

if you don't get in after a certain amount of time, you come off the ballot, that doesn't say that, but

it does sound like the full was a nominee. And if he's a nominee, assuming there's no cutoff on,

um, how long a guy can stay in the ballot, then he probably will go in at some point. So

that's just to clarify for our listeners how, how that format works or how that process works. But

uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's a bummer. Um, we don't have time, excuse me, we don't have time to get

into it today. I believe auto week or another, another more motorsports heavy outlet than t-tech

cover the, the drivers who've died in NASCAR drivers, the recent drivers who've died in plane

crashes. And that's a fairly high amount. I remember Alan Kluwiki, um, and Davey Allison,

and the two that come to my mind, uh, because I was getting to NASCAR as a child when they passed,

and I also had a brief fear of flying as a youth and that did not help. Um, I, I overcame that,

uh, obviously both you and I do, it'll fly a lot for our jobs. So, but at the time when I was very

little and we didn't fly a lot, um, yeah, seeing young NASCAR drivers killed on playing, playing

the helicopter crashes didn't help. And those are the two that come to mind. I know there's a few

others as well. Um, it's, it's, it's unfortunate and it is a bummer. And I just, if my heart goes

out to the Biffle family and Biffle's friends and the NASCAR community, um, obviously he was

still active not that long ago. So a few of the older drivers would have competed against him.

And I don't recall him being particularly involved in broadcasting, but I think he was here and there

and, um, I'm sure he was around the track and other ways. So it's just a, it's a, it's a bummer

for the entire NASCAR community. Yeah. For real. Yeah. I mean, he was a real one. And so

definitely came up, you know, and had now upon, you know, 15, 20 year career that was,

I think by any measure you considered successful and then did a lot of good outside of the sport too.

So yeah, no, for real, lost a real one, but, you know, that's, uh, something to,

one person can also celebrate their life too. Well, right? I mean,

talking about all the good that they did and it's real tough for, for everybody for sure. But

yeah. Yeah. But I think, you know, just as always, you know, just speaks to the,

speaks to the personality and speaks to the character of a person that you never really

got that, that feeling of friction between him and any of the team and all of the stuff you

do with Hurricane Helene last year. It's pretty, it's pretty stand up stuff for sure.

Yeah, for sure. And it's a bummer again. So, uh, we have to, we have to wrap now, but with, uh,

with that in mind, I will go ahead and just say once again, uh, our condolences go out to Greg

Biffle and his family and the entire NASCAR community involved in this tragedy. So, or I'm

sorry, who are mourning this tragedy. And obviously our hearts also go out to the pilots and anyone

else in that plane who was involved in their families. So our condolences and Matthew guy,

thank you so much for your time on a somber NASCAR segment this week on the truth about cars podcast.

Indeed. Thank you. That's all for today. It's the truth about cars podcast. I'm Tim Healy,

the managing editor, and you can find us wherever you're podcasts or online at ttc.com. That's

ttech.com. You can also find us at the truth about cars also pulled out.com. We thank Amit

Chandarana from Kirby and Matthew guy for their time and Matt Poskey for editing.

Most of all, we thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.

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