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Graham Rahal
About this episode
Graham Rahal shares insights into balancing his busy life as an IndyCar driver and running his successful automotive business, GRP, which has grown into a nine-figure enterprise. He discusses his passion for racing, the challenges of managing a large team, and his plans for the future both on and off the track. Rahal also talks about the team's recent hires, the potential of Mick Schumacher joining IndyCar, and the importance of marketing and marquee events for the sport's growth. He reflects on his career highs and the evolving landscape of IndyCar racing.
Topics:
graham rahal career
indycars
grpi automotive business
team management
mick schumacher test
driver development
indycar marketing and events
racing injuries and longevity
indycars future outlook
team hires and strategy
Cars:
Volvo S80
Graham Rahal joins Hinch to talk about his dealership business, his time in IndyCar, Mick's test, what's on the horizon for RLL, his favorite year in racing, and so much more in a long chat.
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
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Volvo S80
"I thought, yeah, yeah. You know, if we could sell a car to here, we could get Alex Rossi's, you know, Audi a eight that he or S 80 he gave us. We could do some downpipes so we could do a tune or whatever."
Select text to request an explanation
This is off track.
Oh, where's the other guy?
Where's the other guy at? We don't know.
He's, he's, no, I do know where, I think he's on a flight.
Is he flying to Phoenix today or tomorrow? I don't know.
You know what's funny? You both share locations
with me, so just gimme a second, I'll Tell you.
Oh, there you go. Yeah, we, uh,
we do these Tuesday shows Graham, where we usually have guests on, and it's, it's, it's, it's like lucky dip sometimes.
We're both here. Sometimes it's me. Yeah.
Sometimes it's him. No doubt.
It's, uh, coordinating calendars with multiple people.
Uh, it's not easy. I don't know how,
I don't know how you would, man, there's no way in hell you would with me. I know that.
Well, it's 'cause you're the busiest guy in motorsports.
Well, I don't know about that, but I'm just saying, like, I, it, it, it moves and shakes every single fricking day. ,
but, and that's what it is. So,
I mean, I kind of So you're in California right now, right?
Yeah. So are you, like, how off, are you just,
are you guys off season in California or are you still back Indy a bit? She,
She is.
She is. You know, I, I I try to be, I mean,
I try to be an indie dude.
I, I love indie. Yeah.
Like, I, I do, you know, I'm a Midwest kid, right.
So for me, I'd rather be there.
This place out here is just, dude, I .
It's so expensive out here, brother.
Anyway, now I'm going down a tangent.
I don't need to go down. So it's, it's .
No, but it's so like, how, how do you, 'cause obviously you've got, you've got GRP, right?
Yeah. Which is, I mean, look for, for people listening
that maybe don't know, Tim, you're muted, which is how we prefer you.
But if you wanted to actually get a point in here, have we introduced Who we're talking to yet?
Yeah, we're, we're talking. We're talking.
Well, obviously we're talking to Graham Rail.
Everybody knows that we're gonna do it for later. It's fine.
But so, I mean, well, not Everybody, 'cause I was still not an SA license today, and I gotta submit a resume to be accepted, so, Oh, dude.
It's, isn't that brutal? Brutal.
I was like, what? Explain to people that don't know
what GRPI mean, actually, I think it's a cool story of what it started as and now what it is, what it has become and grown into.
Oh, man. So, yeah, when I started it, I really had,
you know, sort of low expectations of what this would be.
I thought it'd be fun to have a business that modified cars, that sold some cars, that serviced some cars, that sold wheels, that whatever, these sorts of things.
I had lofty goals of where I wanted to become, but I never thought it would become 80 plus employees across the brands.
I'm not gonna say the revenue numbers that we do, but nine figures well into the nine figures every year.
Like, dude, I never thought any of that.
I thought, yeah, yeah. You know, if we could sell a car
to here, we could get Alex Rossi's, you know, Audi a eight that he or S 80 he gave us.
We could do some downpipes so we could do a tune or whatever.
Yeah, that'd be that. That was great.
But, you know, now I look and it's like, I mean, it's just massive.
It's massive. And there's goods and bads to that.
You know, we, we sell cars where the nation's, I'm gonna say it, where the nation's largest specialty retailer, we'll do probably 600 plus units, specialty units this year.
That's, I get you can go.
And same like, I, you know, like I, I, I see what you post on Instagram.
Like every week you've got 20 new, like high-end supercar or you know, like luxury sports cars coming through that place. Like, it's incredible. I
Mean, last month we, last month we sold 70 units, which was our all time record.
That's, that's a big number for like a, a Honda dealership on the corner.
It's, you know, it, and you dealing in, in like, I mean, what's the cheapest car you've sold?
It's still another day, figure Day.
The other day I called a, uh, a friend of mine who's got a Ferrari dealership, and I was like, Hey, let's talk financials for a minute.
What, what do you do annually? Revenue.
And he gave me his number and I mean, dude, I'm like, three and a half times bigger.
Yeah. And I was like, damn, that is awesome. Like, I
Doing all right.
Like, I never thought any of that.
Um, but I, but I love it.
Like, honestly, James, you know, you've known me my whole life.
Like, I, I've always loved cars and motorcycles.
Like I, it's just, it's in me. I mean, I've loved it.
Now the problem is with racing, it does, it's very hard to balance all of it.
Um, I'm, that's one of The things we wanna talk about, right?
Like, I know how hard it is to be a full-time IndyCar driver, and I am seeing by being friends with you and being in your orbit and knowing a little bit about business Yeah.
How hard it is to grow a company to nine figures, revenue and, and 80 employees.
But I genuinely, and I'm not proud to say this at all, but I have an addiction to work.
Mm-hmm . Other people have addictions to various things.
I have an addiction to work.
I don't ever like to sit static.
I don't ever, I can't sit at Christmas Day and not think about trying to sell a car.
I can't do it. . I, I just, I'm not wired that way.
And I, I've always been that way.
Like I said, I'm not proud of that.
I wi I wish for my kids, for my wife more than my kids.
'cause my my kids, if anything, they get more of my attention.
But I wish I didn't, I didn't have that characteristic.
But, you know, to me, I, I love a challenge and I love figuring it out.
You know, it's just like the IndyCar team.
Like, okay, we've been struggling with X, Y, or Z thing.
Like, how do we get better? Who can we go find?
You know, what's the right piece to the puzzle here?
Um, you know, I, I feel like those are areas that I just enjoy that aspect of it.
I also really enjoy people.
Um, I enjoy relationships.
I value relationships more than anything else.
And in my business, that's a positive because everybody wants the relationship.
They want to go to a dealership that they can trust, that they know they're gonna get a good car.
They know they're not gonna be taken advantage of.
I mean, dude, I deal with some of the richest people in the world.
That's just, that's, that's a reality.
These guys get smoked by people left, right, and center. Yeah, for
Sure.
It doesn't, they don't want that.
Like, they know that people know that.
But you need to, you need to have the integrity within you to not be that guy.
And I, and that's the way I think we are.
And I, I enjoy that relationship to be able to, you know, talk to those people and do deals with royal families and do deals with what, like, it's a wild thing to think about.
'cause dude, five years ago, I would've never said that.
You know? Yeah. Yeah. But it's also really cool for me
because it's been good for racing.
And I don't think fans realize that enough.
I get a lot of hate for, oh, you're not focused on racing.
A lot of our sponsors I met through GRP Interesting.
There's several that started as clients of GRP.
And they'd send an email and I'd read their signature at the bottom. Like, right,
What company is that?
Head on Google. Well switch over to LinkedIn. .
Yeah. So that's been a really good thing for us.
Um, and uh, man, I just love it though.
I, I, I love the power sports side.
I love, you know, Ducati, I've always been a freak about people know that.
Um, so, you know, for me it's, it's fun and it's the future.
I mean, I'm not gonna race much longer.
Um, it's just a, it's just a reality.
Uh, so for me, you know, this is the future.
Like, uh, this is, this is what I'm, I'm working on developing. Yeah.
So, de Graham, do you, do you, do you have a number of years?
Do you know how many Not that you have to share it.
Like, when you go to bed at night, do you know how many you think you got left in you?
I mean, I think I'll, I'll do a couple more.
Do I go beyond that? Is, is honestly really depending on my,
my life, um, with my kids.
And also to be real clear, it's depending on my body. Yeah.
I mean, dude, I'm on the foam roller every freaking night.
Yeah. I'm on, you know, even if I don't work out, I'm on
because my body just aches.
My back is destroyed.
I look at my dad and all the surgeries he's had over the last eight years, and I'm like, dude, like, I'm gonna need 'em anyway.
I mean, it's gonna happen, but it's like, man, I, I don't, I don't think I really wanna become Yeah.
You know, crippled by, you don't wanna make it any worse, you know?
Yeah, yeah. So for me,
I don't want to sway your decision one way or the other, but my back's completely <inaudible> and I don't work out.
So, , That can just happen. .
Yeah, it can. It can. You're right. You're right. Most of
My injuries are sleep related. .
Oh, that's good. Yeah. Nice. Good effort.
What the hell are you doing in your sleep, man?
Apparently a lot. 'cause I'll just wake up
and be like, oh, okay, I'm in pain.
You got some thrilling dreams or something, huh? .
Um, but no, I, we'll see brother.
I mean, but that in my head, you know, uh, a couple more years.
And, uh, and I think I'll be at peace to, to move on.
I mean, you know, it is, it is what it is.
I, um, I've been doing this a long time. I don't know.
I, I don't know any other way, frankly. Yeah.
But I'm not gonna go away.
Like, dude, I love racing and I love indie car racing particularly.
So That's, and for me, I, I'll be totally engaged. There's no doubt.
And that's, that's the kind of obvious next question is when you stop the driving side, is there sort of a natural progression, a natural succession plan that you kind of move into a bigger management role within the team?
I know you're already very involved in a lot of that stuff, but are you gonna come to races with an RLL Polo on and Yeah.
And yeah, I'll be on the timing stand and, and be part of It.
I'll be there. I'll be there.
There's no doubt I'll be there. Um, I'll be there.
I mean, I, I, I love it. I love it.
Um, I love the competitiveness that it gives me.
You know, I've changed in a sense, and I love seeing young guys do well, you know, you just wanna beat the, you know, what, out of all of them .
But now for me, it's like, I still do, but I love seeing Louis do well.
Um, you know, I love to try to kind of give him what input I can to help him in his career.
And, uh, I enjoyed that with Christian.
And I hope that I can have an influence on people's careers.
You know, I remember coming up when you and I were coming up, and a lot of people would go to my dad to ask advice A lot.
Yeah. And I always admired that about him,
that people respected him enough to like, be like, Hey, what Mr.
Al, you know, what do you think about this? Or this or this?
And, uh, and I, I loved that.
Even if they weren't an indie car, I mean, there were guys in NASCAR that would come ask too.
And so, you know, I enjoy that.
Um, I love to have that, that ability to help young people.
And, uh, for me, I'd love to be engaged in the team in every regard that we can.
Um, and I, I, I am right now a little bit, I think people think I'm more involved than I am.
Um, I'm involved when I feel like something's really obviously wrong.
Mm-hmm . Um, there, you know, there's been people
that we've, that I've worked with in the past.
Some you've worked with, we won't name names, but it'd be pretty obvious that, you know, we're a train wreck from day one.
And I knew it, and I could see it.
I'd asked you your opinion and yours was the same.
And so, you know, I was very vocal about certain things.
You know, I was very vocal about certain things.
But to me in general though, like with Jay Fry, dude, that guy's a man.
Like, he really is. I'm not just saying like,
he's got a good finger on the pulse of what needs to happen.
Jay Fry doesn't need to hear from me every day.
I mean, yeah. You know, he just doesn't just let, let him do
what he needs to do and we'll go from there.
Well, let's, let's talk a little bit about that, because obviously Jay came on start of this season, right?
Yeah. And, uh, you know, was a, was a, was a quick
and good get for you guys after, you know, he stepped down to the IndyCar side and you've now had some other major hires at ROL that just announced this week with Brian Barnhart.
Kyle Sagan. Yeah. It really seems like the team has kind
of shifted, uh, into a new gear, you know, to use a, a cheesy car punt.
Yeah. And is is looking at 26 as a really big opportunity.
Kind of tell us about, you know, some of those new people and, and what the, you know, what the goals are for next year.
Well, you know, we felt that Barnhart, um, you know, dad and I have always had a close relationship with Brian.
I have a lot of respect for, I've had a lot of respect for Brian.
I mean, even when he was race control and race director, people used to give Brian.
But honestly, I liked what he did.
I wish, I wish we had that consistency, honestly.
And that's a job that you're just gonna get a lot of hate.
But, you know, I liked, I liked that.
Um, I, I liked when he was there.
I, I feel that he brings a level of professionalism to us, of organization, to us of strategy.
You know, you, he's a, he's get damn good strategist.
And we've got a lot of young guys that are going to be, but they don't have the experience yet.
And I think Brian Barnhart can really help take us to the next level.
Um, Kyle Sagan, I think is gonna be a great addition.
Kyle's been with us before, when we won a lot of those races in 20 15, 16, I think even into 17.
Sagan was with us. He's gonna help us with our pit stops.
Our pit stops have made a drastic change.
I mean, they've been a lot better. Our guys
did a great job last year.
I think they're gonna continue to get better, but it's an area that we take very seriously.
And it's an area that Errol McLaren was quite good.
So I feel like it's good for us.
You know, they took our guy Ryan Har last year, um, right.
HARs was my boy, you know, I was with Harb since 2008, so it really pissed me off when, when he, when, when he left.
Um, yeah. But, you know, at the end of the day, uh,
and never say never to, to, uh, you know, him coming back.
I mean, I love the guy and I'd love to have him with us and strengthen in performance at our, at our team.
But, you know, Sagan's good.
And we've got some more guys coming on board that I think are gonna be great.
I hired an engineer that's really just gonna be dedicated.
Their job is gonna be dedicated to our short oval package, which is our Achilles heel.
But next year, there's a lot of short ovals. I mean, a lot.
So we gotta get better Phoenix and Gateway and, you know, obviously Nashville and, uh, uh, Milwaukee.
So, you know, we've gotta get better in that regard.
So we've, we've done that. So I'm, I'm pumped, man.
And I think, you know, we, uh, we got a lot of work ahead of us, but the team is definitely headed, you know, down the right path.
Obviously. We gotta figure out car number three, you know,
who it's gonna be, what's gonna happen, how's it coming together, um, and, uh, and, and try to get that done as well.
Graham, it's, it's like we have a script about where I want to go with these things.
'cause you just beautifully lead me there. Car number three.
You guys obviously made some headlines with Mick Schumacher doing that test.
I mean, first off, just tell me how, from your seat, I mean, I assume you may not have been there, but you've got, you know, yeah.
You've got getting all the, all the feedback on it.
How'd the test go and, you know, what kind of likelihood are we looking at with Mick maybe being in the series full-time?
Uh, I mean, I, I think this is what I'll say, you know, tests went well, uh, professionalism to a very, very high standard mm-hmm .
As expected, frankly. Yeah.
Uh, what, what I got out of it from all the staff that was there from all the team members was what a humble down to earth human being.
Mick was. And that his mother was apparently
amazing to everybody.
I don't know if you talked to Kathy, but Kathy was, I did actually.
Yeah. Over the, over the moon about,
and dude, when we came up on a worldwide scale, there was Michael Schumacher, Michael Jordan, and maybe Tiger Woods.
That was it. Yeah. Right. Like now,
because of social media, there's a lot more names and things, but at that time, that was it.
Yeah. And yet, here's the lady that lived
to the highest of highs.
And unfortunately, some, some pretty low times that comes in.
Couldn't have been nicer to our people, couldn't have been more humble, couldn't have been more caring, engaged.
I mean, I was shocked that his mom came to an IndyCar test.
I'm like, what? Like, I mean, I get him,
it's the first time you've driven a Formula One car or something.
But like, yeah. I mean,
it's not the Indy 500 yet sort of thing.
Right. She was there.
Um, you know, there, I, I would love to see Mick.
I'd love to see it happen.
Um, you know, and, and I, I think like that's, that's, that's ultimately the goal.
But there's a lot of moving, you know, pieces that go into this. But, uh, for
Sure his interest level high.
Do you think, like, did he seem like he was, he was down for it, because you Oh, yeah.
You did hear a lot of drivers from Europe, so they kind of touch around the oval thing.
Right. But no, he's, he seemed all in.
No, he's not. I don't think that's a problem.
I mean, I get what his uncle Ralph wants to make everybody think, but I don't gather that's a super tight relationship anyway.
Um, right. But to me, you know, I, I think he's all in,
what I got out of it, um, was the Max Fortin sort of thing.
Like, what I got out of it is the kid's a racer mm-hmm .
And he wants to go race.
And I got, there's a lot of politics in, in Formula One.
And if you're dealing with the politics and you're tired of it, and your last name's Schumacher, imagine what it is for everybody else, right?
Yeah. Yeah. And so, to me, uh, I just got out of Mick.
The, he, you know, and again, I've not talked, I've talked to him on the phone a couple times.
I, I can't say that we're best buddies or anything, but what I'm saying is I just got, I took out of it the mixed Schumacher's, a racer mm-hmm .
And he wants to go to a series that he can drive a damn car, that he can have some fun, that he can make a new name for himself, and he can have an opportunity to win and, and IndyCar racing, as we know, that's a possibility for anybody.
Yeah. So, to me, um, I, I think it'd be a great fit for him
and, and, uh, you know, fingers crossed, you know, we can, uh, we can make something happen.
Yeah. It'd be great to see.
I mean, I'm, I'm just, I was glad to hear the enthusiasm from their camp.
And it wasn't just like, you know, like we had Nico Kinberg come over and do a test when he was doing his sabbatical.
He did one day in the car. I was like, nah, not doing that.
You know, like some people, it's just not their thing.
But it's, it's cool to see that he kind of has that enthusiasm for it.
Um, you know, you kind of mentioned how you enjoy dealing with the younger drivers.
Now. I get it. And I'm in that same old man phase
of motor points that you are, sorry, pal.
I know you're younger than me, but, uh, you're getting there.
we're aging, , We're getting there.
Um, so I mean, talk, you mentioned Louis.
Talk to me about his year.
I mean, what did you guys think internally?
I mean, I think he turned a lot of heads.
He impressed a lot of people on the outside, but what's it like working with him and, and what do you guys see on the inside?
I mean, I, I love the kid.
You know, I, I think that he's, first off, I'm gonna say this.
When he first came into the team, I was kinda like, this kid thinks it doesn't stink, man. He
Had an, he had an air to him. Yeah.
I, I was just like, Jesus Christ, another one of these guys, .
And dude, he changed so fast.
Like, he's extremely mature, great family. Hilarious.
Uh, I mean, he and I get along really, really well on a personal side of things.
Uh, I just feel like Louis has a really bright future.
He doesn't sugarcoat things. Mm-hmm .
You know, I've had so many teammates in the past, we'd be in practice and they're like, oh, uh, when it comes time to qualify, I've got another four tenths in the bag.
And I'm like, no, the f you don't.
Yeah. . That's not how it works. Stop.
Okay, stop. Well, Louie's not that way.
Like, if he really says, yeah man, I think I've got like a 10th, maybe two.
But he'll come in sometimes and go, I got no more.
Like, that was it. That was it. Yeah.
And I respect that out of him.
'cause as a senior guy, as, you know, like the reality is the reality.
Like, can you do it or not?
Like if you can do it, I get, if you're held up with traffic or you go through a yellow sector, whatever.
But the reality is you're gonna know, and you're probably gonna show pretty damn close to what you're capable of.
Right. And what I, what I liked about Louie was he was just,
he was honest about all that, man.
He was straight to the point. He was easy.
And, um, I I, I, I respect the hell out of him for that.
And you know, to me, I got a lot of time in the day for, for Louie.
Uh, and I think he's gonna be, I think he's gonna be a star.
Um, he's brave.
He's good on the ovals, but he is not stupid.
Well, sometimes he is a little stupid, but that's, that's his problem.
That's just a rookie thing. Right. He'll, he'll get older that,
That's a young kid. Once
He, once he hits some, but then he'll learn.
But no, man, I loved working with them. And it's great.
'cause you know, with drop light and everything that they've done with Deda and all the sponsors, like, they're there for a long time now.
So for us, that's really good stability.
And I think you'll see, you know, that Louis will be a big part of that.
Dude, you've been, you've been part of this sport for a long time, and you have seen it through a lot of different phases, a lot of different changes.
Um, you know, obviously you were on the champ car side of things originally.
You were part of the merge when that happened.
You've now been through a new car, several iterations of that car, et cetera, et cetera.
Manufacturers coming in, going, all that stuff.
Yeah. Where
Do you see IndyCar sitting right now?
Where, how are we doing?
And, you know, what do you think the the next three to five can look like?
Based on everything that, you know, IndyCar is in a good, stable spot.
IndyCar needs a kick in the ass when it comes to marketing.
And I think that's gonna happen now.
I think with Fox, that's gonna happen.
I don't see Shanks and I don't see Fox investing in this and everything else to watch it deteriorate.
I think Fox is, you know, critical to our movement forward.
Seeing Paolo, I mean, obviously I'm a college football guy, so seeing Polo at Big Noon kickoff the other day, drinking milk, and they're doing a milk chugging competition at iu.
Like, dude, that stuff NBC never did for us.
That stuff ESPN never did for us.
These are things that do move the needle.
We need new events. As much as I loved Iowa,
once Hy-Vee was gone, we knew it was gone.
I saw rumor about Cleveland. Mm-hmm .
I'm excited about that. I thought Cleveland was a great
street course, but it was also a place you could see the whole track from sitting in one stand.
You and I raced there. Yeah. You can see everything.
It was a great place to go and watch a race. Okay.
You know, mid Ohio is, is is great. I don't like mid Ohio.
On 4th of July, I'll, I'll, I'll be on my grave on that one.
Mm-hmm . I don't like it. Mm-hmm . I'm a proud American.
No offense, I love racing, but I want to drink beer on the 4th of July.
I'll flat out say it, you know, I, I don't Oh, so you personally don't like racing on the 4th of July?
I, I don't, but I also, the crowd has been smaller.
I don't care what anybody says.
The crowd is bigger when it wasn't on the fourth. People
Wanna be on a lake.
People have plans. Right.
Like, unless you've been doing it. That's my point. A
Long time.
It's not just me. It's that everybody
wants to be with their family.
Everybody wants to be on the lake. Everybody.
I mean, you, you do. We all do. Yep.
You know, I mean, that's just the reality.
So I don't like it.
You know, I think that there's things that could be different.
But you hear this Washington DC Street race, that'd be great if they can make it happen.
You hear about, you know, Denver, that'd be great.
I love racing in Denver. You
and I race in Denver, , you know, you hear, you hear about Cleveland, Ohio, it'd be awesome.
Right? I mean, there's a lot of great potential.
Gotta make it happen now. Gotta make it happen.
'cause the thing that Formula One has is bucket loads of money.
And God bless 'em. They got it.
But because of that, they can be aggressive.
They can spend money on a street race in Vegas that'll never see a dollar return.
But they don't care. Yeah. Yeah. They don't care.
We can't do that. But somehow we've got to find a way to be
a little bit more of the pedal on the right.
Like, let's go forward, let's be aggressive.
Let's see what we can do to move the needle here.
We have a lot of cornerstone events, the Road Americas of the World, and things like that, that I think are just solid and great.
But I would like to see in Nicar over the next five years, really get aggressive with, you know, where we're gonna go, what we're gonna do, how we're gonna do it.
Nashville, Nashville needs to go back downtown when the stadium's done the street.
Actually, the oval is one of the better races of the year.
So this is, this is, yes.
So this is a, an important conversation to have, right?
Because from a television standpoint, right, for everyone sitting at home watching the race, it's hard to argue that the Nashville Oval wasn't a better race than any of the ones we had downtown from an event standpoint.
Sure. It's hard to beat any race that's in a downtown.
What's, what's more important, Graham?
What is it more important having an event that a lot of people show up to?
Because it's, you know, it's a big, it's, it's a thing that's happening downtown in a city, whatever, or for the million, hopefully soon to be 2 million people every week watching at home.
Do you wanna put on a banger of a, of a wheel to wheel action racing?
I think if I'm at home and I see nobody in the grandstand, It doesn't matter.
It doesn't draw me. I'm like, ah, must be a series. It
Doesn't make you wanna Go. Not a low great deal.
Right. It doesn't make you want to be invested.
Yeah. Doesn't do anything for me.
And the reality is, much as fans hate to hear it, everybody cries about we need more ovals, but they don't show up .
So dude, it's like, so we Milwaukee's the exception because when Milwaukee came back on the schedule.
Yeah. When it came back on the schedule, Alex
and I were on this show and we went on a rant.
We were like, guys, we've been through this.
Everybody complained about no Milwaukee, Michael Andretti brought the race back and nobody showed up.
So I don't wanna hear anybody talk to me about coming to Milwaukee or wanting Milwaukee back on the calendar, letting you in a put of your money where your mouth is and buy a ticket.
And last year we went back, it was like, oh, damn, everybody showed up.
That was actually pretty impressive. .
Okay, so now take Milwaukee, add in a concert on Saturday night, add in something.
Now Milwaukee, what I thought was, so yeah, the Sunday crowd in Milwaukee was good, but bro, the Saturday crowd was good.
Yeah. It was great For qualifying.
There was actually quite a lot of people there. Yeah.
Or Friday, whatever. I'm all Yeah, whatever.
That's my point. Uh, it was actually like,
damn, this is pretty cool.
Okay. Mm-hmm . I thought
that was a really good positive sign.
But dude, it's not just us that fights it, you know?
For sure. I mean, let's be real.
There's a lot of NASCAR races.
There ain't <inaudible> for people in the stands.
Yeah. Well, 'cause there's too many of 'em.
There's just, there's flat out too many. For
Sure.
For sure. But I'm still saying like, it's a problem for me,
I think you need to have really marquee events.
I think Formula One's the example of that.
You could watch 95 8% of a Formula One races and you could fall asleep between lap two and the second to last lap.
And you, you've missed nothing. That's not me being hard.
That's true. That's true. Yeah. Okay.
So, but my point is, people are like, oh, I form the ones on today.
It's gonna look really cool on the grid.
Like, look at all the people, like, look at all, and they draw, they draw because of that, they draw not only people, they draw money, they draw sponsors.
And ultimately for the health of the sport, we've gotta have events that do that.
Right. People come to the Indy 500
and they're just in awe of what it is blown away.
So we're not gonna have another Indy 500, but can we have more long beaches?
Mm-hmm . Oh, and by the way, flybys are mandatory. Okay.
And it's not gonna be a damn Cessna.
Like we got a Texas a few years ago.
We need to have good flybys during the national Anthem.
We need to have energy and enthusiasm and everything else.
I, I'm, I'm ex okay, I'm going on a rant now, but I'm exhausted of the, that's been happening lately.
Okay. . Like, we need cool energy before the race.
Gotta have it. I wanna see an A 10 warthog come over
and fire fake bullets or whatever the hell it could be.
I want. And you know,
and we don't, we don't have, we don't have that anymore.
It's like, dude, when I, like, I remember the C 17 at, at, at, at Long Beach couple years ago.
Thing was like, just over the tree tops. Big ass plane.
It doesn't have to be an F 35, but like, let's get some cool energy back in this thing.
'cause dude, you know, when I was a kid, that was one of the most exciting part of the races.
And by the way, everybody sitting in the stands is looking around.
They're like, oh, there, there, there's not one today.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, dude, yeah.
There's, there's an expect expectation. Right? Gotta be.
This gets back to my, like, we gotta have events, man.
And that's part of an event.
And so, you know, to me as a series, we need to focus hard on those things.
And if we can do that right, the series has great legs and great potential because the dollar is right now, my next thing gotta get more manufacturers.
Yeah. Because that's holding us back more than anything.
Honda. They've been great. They're not going anywhere.
This is my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong.
You know, they've always played the chicken and the egg thing.
You know, they, they played, they played the game, you know, over the 30 years of Honda's been in it.
But to me, Honda's loyal, they're gonna keep doing it.
Chevy, they've been great. I love Mark Royce.
I love Jim Campbell. Mm-hmm . I love Mark Royce.
I'm gonna get back to Mark Royce for a second.
When I look at an automotive, CEO, mark Royce is the greatest in the world.
'cause he's a gearhead. I love that. He's a racer. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. I love that. I love I love that about him.
And to me, you know, we, we, we need, you know, when we go to the Indy 500, there's a lot of teams that could run cars, but they can't, we can't get engines.
We need another manufacturer to, to, to break up this monotony.
We gotta get it to the point that we can have 35, 37.
This 30. Yeah, exactly. It's 34 or 35 number.
And it's like, even if 40 cars wanted to show up at some point, running outta motors.
'cause there's only two people making 'em.
Yeah. You can't do it. Can't do it.
I mean, it just is what it is. So, fingers crossed, man.
And we see some positive days in the near future.
And I, I think that we will, I think that we will, we just, we need a little bit of kick in the butt.
And I think Fox is gonna give that to us.
So I'm, you know, I'm excited for what, what's to come.
It's funny you kind of bring up the events thing, which I completely agree with.
And we've already, if you're listening to this, we've already recorded our Thursday show.
And, and Rossi actually touches on this point about how when you watch Formula One on tv, every event looks good.
Yeah. Even just things like the curbs are painted well,
and the banners are presented in a way that the whole thing just looks sharp.
It looks like something you wanna be a part of.
The, the other big thing that I think we always talk about is how drivers have to be stars.
So in your opinion, the, I think I completely am on board and completely agree with making the races, events, and you gotta make it something that people want to go to.
How much of that equation for you is people wanting to go because they're cheering for Driver X?
Because we as a series have done a better job at making stars out of some of these drivers. Yeah,
Well, um, I think, you know, the reality is making stars of the drivers is a hard thing.
I think. Um, I mean even, let's look at NASCAR now.
It's not as deep as it once was. Right.
As far as that, you know, there's very few, No one's Dale Earnhardt anymore.
Right. No one's even Jeff Gordon.
You walk around Johnson like it's a, Yeah.
Like if I go walk around in most, most places and I mention a name, they're gonna be like, who's that?
You know? Yeah. Um, and that's not, again, I'm not throwing,
throwing rocks and, you know, in a glass house here.
Right. I, I fully understand.
It's the same in IndyCar Formula one's a little different 'cause they just struck gold with the timing and COVID man.
Like they, it couldn't have been better. Like Yeah.
And they, they Acknowledge that, That that changed their world.
It just did. But, uh,
but you know, formula One's also a very globalized sport.
And IndyCar's not really, NASCAR's not really, to be frank.
So, you know, they've been able to maximize that and build a fan base around the world, which is great.
Um, you know, we, we definitely have to work on, on building our stars.
I think if IndyCar has one fault, uh, over the history, since I started in this, they only ever highlight one or two guys.
They've always been that way.
You know, they've never really tried to broad, you know, brush strokes on the whole grid.
Like, here we're gonna make a name outta, you know, out, out of a variety of, of, uh, different people.
You know, this year it was all hands on.
The new garden basket didn't work out great.
Um, you know, obviously Alex Palolo, you know, Paolo's a star.
Paolo's a stud. He's gotta be a household name.
But dude, you know, you got a lot of great young guys.
I mean, Kirkwood is a player.
I mean, that guy can drive, man. He is good.
Obviously it sucks to lose Colton, but you know, you got a lot of good young names into me.
You know, obviously I were car marketing, like Yeah.
Patto is an anomaly. He is the biggest.
He's gonna be the biggest. It's like Adrian
Fernandez in his day. .
Yeah. The difference is Mexican people are
extremely passionate about their people.
Yeah. Americans aren't that way, they're just not. Right.
You know, Americans, I'm a huge hinge fan, period.
Like Canadians are loyal to you. Mm-hmm .
It was you, me, head to head.
They're never gonna cheer for me, that's for sure. Right.
But in America, that's never really been, I mean, Tony Kaar was the biggest star.
He's Brazilian. Yeah. Yeah.
Lio Brazilian, you know, it didn't have to be an American.
Whereas in most other countries, remember when we go to Brazil, they were all about the Brazilians.
But is that, is that good or bad though, Graham?
Because you've got, you've got, I think it's good builds energy.
Like you've got seven, those seven into 10, you know, Americans in the series and Americans have so many options in terms of American drivers.
And then that's that even extend that into nascar.
Every one of those minus Daniel Suarez is American.
So it's like, it's not as much of a novelty for them.
Where if you look at the global racing stage, Mexico doesn't have a ton of drivers.
So they as a country latch onto the guys that success.
Same, same with Canada. Same with a lot of these places.
Correct. So, but you're okay that American fans will get
behind an Alex Palolo or a Tony Canan or, uh, whoever.
I, I personally, I wish American fans were a little more passionate about their people, about their drivers.
Right. But the reality is that I've never seen it that way.
I mean, even going back to when my dad raced, I don't think I ever saw it that way.
I thought American fans were, you know, much more, you know, open to to whoever that, that, that, that that personality was, that kind of energized them.
You know? I mean maybe, maybe, maybe I'm wrong,
but, uh, to me that's the way I've always viewed it as least, at least.
And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, to be honest with you.
I mean, I, I think, you know, it's, it's good to have it, but it it's also great to go to racetracks.
It doesn't matter where we are. And Patto is a stud.
Patto iss a star. Yeah. I mean, he just is.
And we've gotta keep that rolling, you know? For sure.
You know, fingers crossed we, we, we can do that.
Um, but yeah. Did,
Did, did Fox ever come to you about, uh, being involved in some of these campaigns and stuff as well as the Yeah.
The only clear this up for a second. Okay.
There's all this hate lately going toward like a month ago, saw this about, oh, Graham was invited to do a campaign and he turned it down.
No, no, no. I was invited to be like a <inaudible>,
a bush trimmer in Joseph New Garden's thing. .
And I said, no, bro.
When they sent me the, when they sent me the script, I'm like, F that.
Yeah. , you're not getting me to do that. I'm out.
Like, I'm not doing that. Like, totally
Fair. They don't want you
Care. I don't care who, it's
Joseph's bushes, like, dude, it was something, you know, I was like, what the hell am I, why, why, why are you even asking me to do that?
Like, I, I, I, I was like, no, I'm not doing that.
I'm not doing that. So I, I didn't,
and people are, oh, it came out that Graham was invited and he didn't do it.
I'm like, yeah, you're right. I didn't do it. .
It's that easy. If you wanna let them know, James,
I'll do that next year. Yeah. ,
We should actually get you as a, uh, as an extra and, and something there.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. That's funny man. Okay.
Uh, well we've already taken too much of your time.
We appreciate you, uh, chatting with us.
But I just have this question because again, you've, you've got to race for a long time.
You've got to race on a lot. Lot of cool stuff.
You know, we did things like A one G together. Yeah, yeah.
You've raced sports car stuff.
What was your favorite year in motor sports that you've had?
Um, is it like just easy that you default to 2015?
'cause you have the home win, you have a great championship run?
Or is it, is there like a weird kind of screwball answer that people wouldn't expect?
I would say that, you know, for me, actually, you know, as weird as it is this year I really enjoyed, uh, we had hard, we had a hard year.
Yeah. But dude, I loved my team. I loved my guys.
Um, I loved my engineering core.
I love I, dude, I, I had a, I had a great, great time.
Now we needed to be better, but I thought we really were pretty good in some places.
I, I think for me, the, the, the, the years that I look back on and I'm like, man, I just wish it was, you know, like that again.
Honestly, a lot of 'em are probably the go-kart ears. Yeah.
You know, there was less pressure, there was less social media.
There was great people like you, Robbie, um, Robbie Kerri, um, Mikey Geen.
Mm-hmm . You know, there was a lot
of great guys to compete against.
Um, I got to, to travel in the truck.
I drove the truck, you know, with, I couldn't drive at the time, but with a couple of guys, you know, out to Pat Acres get my first big sup, uh, you know, big, uh, national event win and, and you know, do a lot of cool stuff.
I mean, the go-kart years, the go-kart years, were, were, were, were great times.
And I think as you go through your career, you lose sight of that stuff.
You know, you get so carried away in all this stuff that now where I'm at, I'm back in sort of a part of my career where every time I get to sit in the car, like I truly appreciate it.
It feels Yeah. Like a blessing.
And I'm like so pumped to go racing and so pumped to get in the car and do all this stuff.
You know, there was a phase in the middle part of my career that man, it, it felt like a job.
Like it felt like work. Yeah. It was hard.
It was hard every time. The car car was a handful.
The, the team was difficult.
The, this, the, thats, and you're like, man, I remember 2014, I literally called my now wife and told her, I said, <inaudible>, I'm not, so, I'm not so sure this is for me, like Yeah, like this is brutal. Like brutal.
Because people forget, right?
Like, when, when stuff's not going well on track, it's, it's still, all the other stuff still exists.
You still have to go do all the media stuff, all the sponsor stuff, all this stuff that even when, when things are, you're killing it on track, you don't like doing.
Yeah. Or like, is is is the other side the necessary evil,
evil of being a driver when everything on track's also going poorly and the culture and the team's not good or something like that.
Like it just, all that stuff compounds.
It really does weigh on you. Yeah.
And it, it's, there were, there were some tough years there, man.
And I know nobody's gonna play a violin for me of all people, but there were times I was like, dude, like I don't know about like Yeah.
Yeah. I don't know about this.
And so, you know, for me, um, like I said, as tough as 2025 was in many respects, I loved my guys, man.
Yeah. And I am really energized,
really energized about going forward.
I am. I I think we got a lot of reason
as a team to be pumped up.
Um, and, you know, we'll see man, we're gonna try to finish this next couple years off strong.
That's all I can say. I mean, I,
I certainly don't wanna leave here with only six wins on my resume.
Not that six is pathetic, but for sure, for as long as I've been doing it.
If you want, bro, that's, I've got, that's the thing. Yeah.
You know how people are though.
They're like, oh, well you should have won 30 by now.
I'm like, you realize there's a lot of people, the majority of people never win one.
Do you realize that? Like, come on dude, we're not all Alex.
Hello. Okay. Right. Like,
It gets more mean one year than we've had in our careers.
That bastard. Really?
I literally looked at him and I'm like, is this just easy?
Yeah. Like, is it easy? Like, is that what you think?
You just think it's easy. How hard.
I've never seen anything like that, dude. Like what
Dudes?
It's funny, I look back, I'll listen on this real quick.
'cause I look back at, at all the years and it's, it's tough to pick one for sure, but definitely one of my top three is 2004.
When you and I were racing Formula BMW, we were both gonna, I was the smallest two teams.
We were both one car teams with a, with a 24 foot trailer and a dually one engineer, one mechanic.
And we just kind of naturally became teammates because we were, yeah.
They stuck us at the end of the paddock together.
'cause we didn't have a proper truck. Yeah.
We were just like little trailer guys.
And your engineer, my engineer became like best buds. Yeah.
Your mechanic Miami carrier became best buds.
Me And you were like, best buds. racing was fun.
We were like, you know, 16, 17 years old.
Like it was awesome, man. I
Was gonna say oh four was oh four and oh five.
Yeah. Both great years, you know, years. Both great years.
So man, it's, uh, you, you look back now, you appreciate 'em, don't you?
You sure do. You
Sure do.
And, and I mean, brother, you know this, but your family means a world to, to us.
And you're, you're, you know, rest in heaven, Mr.
Hinchcliffe. Uh Yep.
Had a lot of love for your dad and your mother's just, she is the greatest human.
And I still, you know how I relate.
Every time I see her, we light up.
I mean, just great, just awesome people.
And, and you know, my, my parents always were so close to your parents and my mom and, you know, the whole thing.
So, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of love for the Himms Cliffs and you know, man, a lot, lot of years now, brother. A lot of
Years.
Likewise brother. Likewise man. Crazy. Yeah.
Well, hey, I appreciate you and appreciate you coming on and hey, we're not done.
We're both still here. So let's, uh, yes.
Let's make a, a couple more years of memories before before we walk away from this mess.
Will do, man. Thanks for coming out up.
This has been off track with Hinch and Rossi.
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