The Toyota FJ Cruiser is a retro-styled off-road SUV known for its boxy design and off-road capability. The host uses it as a visual comparison for Hyundai’s new body-on-frame truck concept.
The New York International Auto Show is an event where automakers unveil new vehicles and concepts to generate media attention. The host notes Hyundai revealed the Boulder there, tying the announcement to the broader industry news cycle.
The Hyundai Santa Cruz is Hyundai’s small pickup that was positioned as a crossover-like truck. The segment notes it’s being discontinued, which frames Hyundai’s pivot toward competing in the “real truck” market.
The truck market is the business of selling pickups. The hosts are saying Hyundai is trying to break into that market because it’s where some automakers have been doing really well.
General Motors is the company that owns brands like Chevy and GMC. The point here is that GM’s overall sales are down, so the slowdown is affecting more than one truck line.
They’re talking about what people want to buy in pickup trucks. The big idea is that demand can change when gas gets more expensive, and that affects what truck sizes automakers should sell.
“Selling out” means the dealership runs out of that model quickly. When that happens, dealers may charge more because buyers are still trying to get one.
They mean the market for smaller pickup trucks. The idea is that some buyers want a truck that’s easier to live with and more fuel-efficient than big full-size trucks.
They’re talking about the Toyota Tacoma as a popular smaller truck people remember fondly. The claim is that some buyers want trucks closer in size to those older Tacomas.
Car “fees” are extra charges added on top of the advertised price. The point here is that the final price can jump a lot once those extras are included.
An “uptick in sales” means sales are increasing over a recent period. In this segment, it’s used to support the idea that consumers are moving toward smaller, more affordable trucks as full-size options become harder to justify.
A “sub-$30,000” sports car implies a low entry price for a segment that’s usually more expensive. The speaker treats it as a potential strategy to regain attention, but questions whether it’s real or just a teaser.
Plausible deniability means you can pretend you didn’t really commit to something because your wording is vague. The speaker is saying the company’s messaging might be intentionally unclear.
This is a financing promotion where the loan has no interest for a long time—75 months. It’s meant to make the monthly payment easier, often because the car isn’t selling as well as expected.
Powertrain is what makes the car move—like the engine or electric motor system. On a car listing site, it’s used to filter what kind of vehicle it is (EV vs gas).
This is how long the car has been advertised for sale. If it takes a long time to sell, it can mean buyers aren’t rushing to buy it—so discounts may increase.
Dealer inventory just means the cars a dealership has for sale. They’re showing how you can look at what’s there and how long each car has been sitting.
Aged inventory means cars that have been sitting around for a while. If you look at those first, you may find deals because the dealer wants to sell them.
LIVE
It's noon here in Venture City, New Jersey, in our nation's capital, Washington, D.C.,
and this is Carage Live for Monday, April 6th with your host, me, Ray here in Venture City,
and Zach hanging out with a life ring in Washington, D.C. God knows when you're going to need one of
those living in a major city. What's going on, Hanson? I'm doing okay, Dad. Happy Monday, April
6th. Glad to be here with you, and yeah, got the life ring just in case something happens.
Who knows? Always want to have it handy. Today's show is brought to you by caredge.com. If me and
my dad can help you out with anything car related, we'd love to. Back at caredge.com,
we provide a car buying service that takes care of research, dealer outreach, and even negotiation.
We learn what matters to you, contact dealers, compare real offers, and help you get the best
deal without the stress. If you're interested in learning more about how we can assist you,
check it out. Back at caredge.com. Now, Dad, the big story this morning, Ford and Hyundai have
truck news, different types of truck news from both of them that's putting the auto industry
on alert. First things first, Dad, let's start with our friends over at Ford. Ford executives
are coming out talking about how they expect uneven F-series inventory after that Q1 supplier fire,
and, Dad, Ford experienced significant sales downturns, including some sales slowdowns with
their F-150s. Ford is saying that there's the potential. Yeah, you can see here, sales of the
F-series Ford's top-selling vehicle tumbled 16% in the first quarter. Ford's saying, Dad,
that some of their shipments for new vehicles could be disrupted in inventory levels, could be
not so good for the F-150 as we head into 2026. The other end of the news spectrum when it comes
to trucks and SUVs is Hyundai, Dad. They're doing a body-on-frame truck. They're trying to compete
more with, I don't know, what do you think that's going to compete with right there?
That looks like a Toyota FJ Cruiser on steroids. Oh, I think they're competing with the Bronco,
man. What you're seeing on the screen is the boulder from Hyundai. They revealed this at the
New York International Auto Show. Dad, I think Hyundai's taken a shot here at Ford as well as
potentially Toyota as well. So we've got truck news on both ends of the spectrum. Hyundai getting
into the truck business. Ford essentially saying our truck business was down 16%,
and it might be a little bit worse soon too. Yeah, isn't that interesting that Hyundai,
whose only attempt so far in the small pickup truck category was the Santa Cruz,
and the keyword there is was because it's being discontinued. That didn't go well,
but they're thinking that, well, perhaps we need to get into the real truck market
and compete with the big boys like Ford and GM and Ram and Toyota and Nissan. And it's like,
how big is that market going to be? You know, I thought that was a really rugged looking concept
here. And yes, it looks a lot like a Bronco, and yes, it looks a lot like a Toyota FJ Cruiser
on steroids. But is the market for those that big? Maybe it is, but you would think that for
people that want to do off-roading and stuff, how much off-roading are you going to do when
they don't have any money left? Dad, it's not always about the affordability crisis. This is
definitely though Hyundai stepping into a new lane and trying to compete in a space where Ford has
seen some success, Bronco sales maybe not as high as Ford would like, but obviously,
they're selling those vehicles. And you've seen even Toyota come out and say that they might play
in this space with more trucks. And the whole concept of it being this frame-on-body approach
is really, really... Body on frame approach is really interesting. This is a new dynamic for
them and totally differentiated from what they had done with the Santa Cruz in the past.
Yeah, I think I would be more interested if it was frame-on body, just to see what that might
look like. I mean, yeah, when you do body on frame, I mean, it's a much more rugged vehicle
than most of the platforms that are used for a lot of SUVs today. Because let's face it, a lot of
the SUVs and stuff that are built really aren't built to go off-road. They're built just to look
like they could go off-road. And if Hyundai does this, I mean, they're talking about, what,
2029? Yeah, 2029 is when you would anticipate seeing this. It also has a little bit like Lexus
GXE. We've seen these manufacturers push forward towards these boxy approaches. Like,
this could be trying to compete with those vehicles as well.
Have you ever seen Hyundai not take inspiration from other automakers and pretty much
do their own attempts? You get into a Hyundai or a Kia. And it's like, you look around it,
if you're looking on the outside, if you're looking on the inside. And the first conclusion
you come to is that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I mean, they are not bashful
about who they steal their styling cues from. They don't even try to hide it. It's a tough
space. It really is. And to try and make some real inroads there, it's difficult. Now,
one of the things that I find curious with most manufacturers, Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes,
Benz and now Hyundai. And that is that they feel like they have to play in every sandbox.
They decide that they have to have a model for everything. And then eventually, they get to
the point where they have way too many models and way too many choices. And at a certain point,
you're going to have to cut back on some of the models and make them go away.
Yeah. What's wrong with just being extremely successful in the markets that they're in?
And they have experienced tremendous growth. So why do you need to expand your lineup even more
and have even, excuse me, even more choices of, I'm sorry, I cough, even more choices for people
than what you presently have? I don't know. I do wonder, Dad, I think they are looking at
some of the other automakers who have had success in the truck market because ultimately,
that's what the bolder concept is. It's a truck. That's the framework for it. And so then it is
interesting to really look at what happened to Ford in the most recent quarter, which is,
to be clear, again, a 16% decline in F-Series truck sales. So maybe we're finally finding the
watermark here of how expensive these trucks can get. And Dad, to be very clear here, Ford expects
to have a limited availability of F-Series inventory through the remainder of this year
into the fourth quarter. Ford had a factory manufacturer supplier plant go down with a fire,
and that has disrupted their production. I do wonder though, Dad, because obviously Hyundai
is moving into the truck space with this new approach, which again, is a really interesting
looking vehicle here, the bolder. At the same exact time as domestic truck makers, Ford, for
example, with the F-150 are seeing some of their lowest sales numbers in a long time. A 16% decline
is no joke. So to your commentary around, they always try and find new spaces to play in.
Obviously, the truck market has looked like a great market to be in for decades, but now maybe
Ford showing some signs of weakness. And you can't think Ford's that upset that they're actually
selling as well. So it's actually a little serendipitous that they're not going to be producing
as many vehicles as they had originally thought, because they're not selling as many vehicles
as they had originally thought. They're not selling as many because the prices are too damn high.
And they still have to be clear here. I'll pull it up on the screen. They still have
over 13,000 prior model year F-150s out there right now. I'm on the Car Edge Beta,
which is our new car search. 13,708, 2025, or older, excuse me, F-150s still out there.
You can see here, man, 111 days, 114 days, 260 days, 345 days, 267 days. These vehicles, Dad,
are not moving fast at all, even when the manufacturer and the dealer are discounting them.
I don't know. What is this, $8,634? So Hyundai, again, coming out with a brand new truck at the
same time that Ford truck sales are down at the same time that Ford inventory of trucks is going
to be lower. It just makes me... You just got to read the room a little here.
Well, you read the room, but the truth of the matter is, Hyundai's not coming out with a
truck anytime soon. 2029, yeah, 2029.
So we're three model years away. In some cases, only two model years away.
But it's not as if it's an imminent threat to Ford. And if I'm not mistaken, haven't we seen
Dodge pickup trucks sales go up a little bit while Ford's were going down a little bit? So
you know, I think realistically, there's three, maybe four major players when it comes to
full-size pickup trucks. You have Ram, you have Ford, you have Chevy and GMC. I count them as one.
And you have the Toyota Tundra. And we're seeing some of these brands struggle.
So there's only... Look at Tundra sales. Yeah, Tundra sales are bad, very bad.
Chevrolet sales, General Motors sales were down, what were they? They were down like 9%.
9.8%, something like that. Well, about one day, even if it is 2029, dad, still like,
the landscape looks different than it did a year ago when I was thinking about this.
Two years ago when I was thinking about this. But my thoughts go to maybe people
have satiated their appetite for pickup trucks. And let me just say this, with the advent of gas
prices going up, that can factor into it as well. So there's so many unknowns. And maybe,
I know Hyundai said they're coming out with 30 new models between now and 2030.
Okay, great. How many do you need? To me, that's what it boils down to. How many do you need?
Why do you need to be in every segment? Why do you need to steal some sales
from some of your more successful models so that you can sell other models that will be
suspect as to whether or not they're going to be successful?
Dad, I want to pull up this comment here from Orange Rubber Ducky.
What size truck is in question? Because if I had to guess, the F-150 is down,
but the Maverick and Ranger are selling. So Hyundai could be going for mid-size or small
trucks. This is a fantastic point here. Dad, the smaller and mid-size truck segment is performing
incredibly well. Ford is selling out of the Maverick. We recently did a video about overpriced
new cars. And the Maverick, unfortunately, is on that list, not because it is overpriced at its MSRP,
because dealers are still trying to add markups to Mavericks because they're selling so fast
and with such high demand. This could be, to be clear, the space that these automakers all
move to. Toyota has threatened and put out some marketing materials that suggest they're going
to play in the smaller truck space. Again, the number of people that just want early 2000s,
early 2010s Tacoma, people are out there that want those, much smaller pickup trucks.
Could be interesting. That's such a possession comment.
So that would beg the question, at least in my mind. If people are trying to move away from the
larger, more gas-guzzling pickup trucks to smaller, more fuel-efficient pickup trucks,
will we see the same thing happen in the SUV market? Will we, will we see people wanting to
move away from the larger SUVs, more gas-guzzling SUVs, and move into the smaller to mid-size SUVs?
You know, maybe, maybe with what we're seeing going on with full-size pickup trucks,
is a precursor to what's about to happen to the industry as a whole, where people realize that
perhaps, just perhaps, they can do with a little less, with something just a tad bit smaller,
that they don't need all these giant-sized vehicles that are out there. You know, and just to piggy
back on some of those pickup trucks you looked at before, where, you know, they were marked down to
$43,000, and then, you know, with fees, you're back up close to $50,000, which means you're back
up to an $800 a month or more car payment. It's like, how are the customers, your customers,
supposed to be able to afford that? And maybe, maybe, that's why we're seeing the uptick in the
Maverick sales and other mid-size and smaller pickups. It's an interesting morning, though,
coming off the heels of the New York Auto Show for the world of trucks, especially again,
on the heels of Ford F-Series pickup truck sales down 16% is nothing to sneeze at. GM sales,
General Motors sales for the whole automaker down 9% year over year, and in the same breath,
who's coming to play into the pickup truck space differently, not just with the Santa Cruz,
obviously Hyundai, who has been growing consistently. So, it's fascinating to see these dynamics
at play. Now, down another story this morning that we need to cover,
did you see this at the same New York Auto Show? Dodge is teasing a sub-$30,000 sports car.
It's going to come with style, attitude, and performance. This could be the thing that brings
Dodge back into relevancy. We know many of their vehicles, especially when they were going down the
path of doing electric powertrains, just became so unappealing to their core audience,
but a sub-$30,000 sports car, is this going to be a thing that pops or is this going to be a
Dodge Hornet 2.0? This is just PR. That's nothing more than that. That's all it is. It's a tease.
It's a teaser. That's it. You want style, attitude, and performance? I can give you style,
attitude, and, well, maybe not quite the performance I once could.
But let's face it, they are not coming out with a $30,000 sports car. You read the article,
well, it might be something to compete with the Mazda Miata. You can't pick a more niche vehicle
than that. I mean, how many Miatas do they sell a year? How big is that market for a $30,000
under sports car that has style, attitude, and performance? It's just a talking point.
It's just a way to get some PR at the New York Auto Show. Well, when you don't have anything
to show people and you read the article, well, we can't confirm or deny. What are we in the
State Department or something? They want plausible deniability. If they're going to build it,
they would say they're going to build it. They're not going to build it because there really isn't
much of a market for it. Now, if he has said to me, we're going to come out with a stylish sedan
of some kind that's under $30,000, that maybe there'd be a market for that. There'd be much more
of a market for that than some type of sports car under $30,000. I just think they were hunting for
some publicity at the New York Auto Show when they didn't really have anything to publicize.
That being said, Dad, it is the right type of headline to put out there. You want more affordability.
At least they're talking about sub $30,000. We do have a little bit of perspective here.
Most affordable performance car Dodge has right now is $50,000. That's the 3.0-liter twin-turbo
inline-six charger. They're talking at least. They're talking the right game. Will that show up?
Who knows? Obviously, Mazda with the Miata, Toyota with the GR86, the Mustang, good luck finding any
of the $32,640 options out there, but at least they're talking the right game. We complain and
bemoan affordability all the time. It's a good headline. It's a good headline. Give them credit.
It's a good headline. Better headline would be they're coming out with a sporty, stylish
hatchback or a sporty, stylish sedan. But don't tease people with something you're not
really coming out with. That market is so minuscule that why would you even make the investment,
okay, the billions of dollars of investment to even want to play in it at the moment? I mean,
to me, that makes absolutely no sense, especially when you're coming off writing down how many
billions of dollars for failed EVs and things like that. That was at $20 billion.
Really, whatever cash you have to throw at a future product, is it really going to be on a
niche vehicle? It reminds me of the time when Acura said, well, we're gunning for 200,000 sales a
year and one of the ways we're going to get there, we're not going to get there with niche vehicles,
so we're coming out with the ZDX. They were right. You're not going to get there with niche vehicles
and that wasn't even a niche vehicle. That was a super niche vehicle. They're not going to put
money into something like that. It just makes for a great headline. It is a continuation of
corporate BS that we're going to talk about affordability and really not do anything about it,
but it sounds good. Yeah, motorbiscuit jumped all over it. Yeah.
Now, Dad, let's talk about some other vehicles that have recently come out that are not selling
well at all that actually corroborate what we're seeing here in the market. First and foremost,
did y'all know that Subaru came out with two new EVs? We were asleep at the wheel here. The
Subaru Uncharted recently came out and already, Dad, the manufacturer is offering 0% financing
for 75 months and they also have another new EV, the Trailseeker. After the Soltera came out,
did not sell at all. Subaru has now come out with two new electric vehicles, one starting at,
as you can see there, about $40,000 during $9,995. The other one here is a Sporty EV
starting at $43,795, but already 0% financing for 75 months. Can you believe it, Dad? Uncharted
and Trailseeker here from Subaru, obviously not selling well, getting big manufacturer incentives.
Just took me by surprise. I forgot the new who bring these out.
Why didn't they just combine it in the one and call it the Uncharted Trailseeker?
Yeah. What's my old saying about 0% interest? Manufacturers use 0% interest to try and
create interest when there's zero interest in the vehicle. You're talking about a vehicle that
just came out and already they have to underwrite the sale of it with 0% financing for 75 months.
Plug that into the car calculator, the car payment calculator, and see how much,
and let's just use their price of $43.8 and see how much that's costing them in order to
try and promote a vehicle that A, nobody asked for, and B, more than likely nobody wants.
If that was being financed, Dad, at a typical new car interest rate, which is about 9%,
you're paying $15,338 in interest back on that loan. It's costing Subaru, let's say $15,000
to offer that incentive. On a brand new vehicle, usually when you bring a brand new vehicle out,
you're not anticipating having to put an incentive on it of $15,000, which again,
relative to the MSRP. MSRP is $43,44. $43, yeah.
A third, you're underwriting a third of the MSRP just to sell this vehicle. Why did they even
bring it to market? I don't know. The reality is that typically when a manufacturer brings out a
new model, they are not anticipating having any real marketing dollars for incentives the first
model year, let alone the first week. Obviously, there's manufacturers out there that really
honestly believe, and maybe they're right, but they honestly believe that EVs are the future.
It's just the future isn't right this moment, and it's costing them an arm and a leg for thinking
this way. But if they're trying to get a head start from some of the other, maybe, but when sales
are down, and I think if I remember correctly, Subaru sales were down 24%, 25%, and sales have
been down, I think, the last eight quarters for Subaru. It is hard to put money into vehicles
that nobody wants, and that's what they're doing. That to me is surprising. Sorry for the cough.
We need to get that cough figured out, Pops. Let's do a quick experiment here, if you don't mind,
Dad. Let's go over to the car edge car search. I'm using the one on beta. I'm using our new one,
still working through the kinks over here, but very fun to play around with. We're looking at
new Subarus. I want more filters. I want Powertrain, and I want EV. We've got 76 EV Subarus out there
for sale nationwide right now. It's not even like they have that many. That's the reason we
probably didn't even realize it existed until earlier today, because they're just not even
marketing it that much. But yeah, there it is. I wanted to see if they had any Solteras
still out there for sale, and look at that, Dad. That one's only been out there for 338 days.
Why do you want to come out with two more? They came out with two more. Yeah,
not even just one more, two more. I'm telling you, they shouldn't just combine them into the
Uncharted Trailseeker. I don't know. I would love to be a fly on the wall in some of these
corporate meetings in Camden, New Jersey at Subaru to hear what the thinking is
surrounding this. I do have a friend that's the head of training for Subaru. Maybe I
should get in touch with them and see what the thinking is. It makes no sense. You still have
Solteras sitting out there. Not like you produced a lot of them, but we know they were boat anchors,
as you like to say. Then you're coming out with not one, but two new EVs, while all the other
manufacturers are rolling back their EV plants. Not all, but most of the other manufacturers are
rolling back their EV plants. What a fascinating vision. Maybe. Maybe. This is just on the spot
thinking. Maybe since the Solteras was a boat anchor, maybe they were just hoping to encourage
yacht buyers to consider two other boat anchors. For the $100 million and less yacht buyers,
you could go with the Trailseeker. For those who buy a yacht that's $100 million or more,
you would go with the more expensive Uncharted. Maybe if it's a big enough boat, you'd go with
one in the front and one in the back. We've got from Mark here. Do you guys cover the Pacific
Northwest dealers? Sometimes on the show, not all the time. Frequently on the show, we just focus on
wherever my zip code's set on our car search. That being said, for those of you that are
unfamiliar, caredge.com slash dealer ratings or Google search, car edge, dealer ratings,
you can come on here and you can search any area. You can even use the map. I don't talk about this
enough, but we have an interactive map. We could actually just zoom in here. It's loading all the
dealer data that we have. We could zoom in here, Dad. Let's keep going. We're zooming into the
Pacific Northwest. You could come on here and you could find dealers in your area and see.
You see that little F dot right there? That's a dealer you're probably not going to want to do
business with or at least do it with a grain of salt. I can click on that. I can see five-star
Toyota, unfortunately, has a bad grade, whereas Colville Toyota over here in Washington has
a great grade. Play around over on caredge.com, dealer ratings. You can Google search that.
You can use the map as well to help you find dealers in your area. Then, of course, when you
go to that dealership, you'll be able to see all sorts of fun things. For example, their dock fee,
if they add add-ons. We also recently added that their inventory to our dealer pages as well. You
can see their inventory, how long their vehicles have been sitting on the lot right here, how many
vehicles they recently added to inventory, how long their vehicles sit on average, which is really
cool. We built out this days on market chart as well. If you wanted to shop just this dealer's
180-day plus inventory, you click on that and it'll take you right to it. There you go. What's
sitting? A Santa Cruz. That's so fascinating to see how it all works. Anyway, that's all back on
caredge.com. Dealer ratings and dealer reviews. Play around on that and share your...
Wow, that's some interesting data that's available.
Well, I didn't even tell you that. Yeah, we added that. We added on all the dealer pages
the inventory and the analysis of their inventory, which I think is super cool.
It's... You literally can see now and just click through to aged inventory at a dealership,
which is really fun. Wow.
Yeah, and we also updated the car search so it supports now. Right now, it's just showing
you new vehicles, but you can also look at used at the same time. That's why there was 11 over
on the other page. Now there's 11 here. They have some used cars that have been sitting for a while
as well, which is pretty cool. Wow. It's good stuff.
Because you are doing not to patch you on the back because you don't need it,
but you are doing some pretty remarkable stuff for consumers out there that they should be
thankful for. That's on the beta side, all sorts of work going on in beta land. Anyway,
pops, let's call it a show for today. We're back with more car edge live tomorrow. We'll
probably be talking used cars because we should get some used car market data and I think we need
spend some time on it. We appreciate everyone tuning in. Thank you for spending some of your
day with us. Yeah. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, handsome. We look forward to seeing you back
here again tomorrow at noon Eastern. If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate,
review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.
About this episode
Ford and Hyundai are both making truck headlines, but for very different reasons. Ford expects uneven F-series inventory after a Q1 supplier fire, with F-series sales down 16% and lots of unsold 2025-or-older F-150s sitting for months. Hyundai, meanwhile, teased a rugged body-on-frame concept aimed at Bronco-style buyers, with production years away (2029). The hosts debate whether the market is cooling on full-size trucks and whether smaller/mid-size pickups are the real play. They also react to Dodge teasing a sub-$30k sports car (likely PR) and Subaru’s new EV push backed by heavy 0% financing.
Today on CarEdge Live, Ray and Zach discuss the latest news from Ford and Hyundai. Tune in to learn more! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com
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