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Jay Hedgecock on Racing Dale Earnhardt in the 70s
Jay Hedgecock on Racing Dale Earnhardt in the 70s
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About this episode
Jay Hedgecock shares his extensive journey in racing and chassis building, recounting his early days racing micromidgets, working with legends like Tex Powell, and building cars for NASCAR icons including Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty. He reflects on the evolution of short track racing, the challenges of balancing racing and business, and the importance of innovation in chassis design. Jay also discusses the current state and future of grassroots racing, emphasizing the value of community, sponsorship, and adapting to changing technology and costs. His stories offer a unique insider perspective on racing history and the craft of race car building.
Topics:
short track racing history
chassis building
Dale Earnhardt racing stories
NASCAR legends
race car innovation
grassroots racing challenges
sponsorship and funding
racing safety and crashes
late model stock cars
racing industry evolution
Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with a pillar of the short track racing community this week, longtime racer and chassis builder Jay Hedgecock. After growing up in a family with rich NASCAR history and attending the local modified race shops with his father, Jay entered the racing world himself, racing a micro midget that he dug out of his uncle’s junkyard. The work he’d do to get the midget back into racing condition would begin 55 years in the field. He’d receive the education of a lifetime when he happened upon a job in Tex Powell’s shop, after sharpening some drill bits for the automotive legend. Jay had firsthand experience working on NASCAR Cup cars through Tex, and before long, thanks to friend Howard Stewart, he’d find himself behind the wheel of a stock car as well.
After spending years building and racing late model sportsman cars, Jay would return to his true love in racing: the modfieds. He’d go on to win multiple championships with the Southern Modified Auto Racing Tour and track titles all over the heavily contested Virginia/North Carolina region. All the while, he continued his car building efforts and went on to build short track machines for Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt. Today, Jay remains one of the most successful and celebrated car builders in the country, supplying late model stocks to much of the CARS Tour field and NASCAR Weekly champions.
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He was the one you didn't want on your back bumper on the last lap,
because he was going to do whatever.
And because he was what I told somebody about your dad one time was he was not content
to run second or third.
I mean, he was going to win the race. If he could win the race and he didn't race,
I don't think for money, he raced because he liked to race.
Losing a tire, running out of gas, wrecking a teammate, you never know what's going to happen.
NASCAR is full of crazy stories.
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This is the most fun I've had in this chair in the last hour and a half.
I don't know if we've ever argued.
Did I piss you off over the weekend or?
I'm still sour that I was the best man at your wedding.
Who was your best man, Dale?
TJ.
TJ.
You don't need a cool vest for that race.
What are you thinking?
Get him, TJ.
That's the way it's starting to show.
All right then.
Hey, everybody, it's Dale Jr. here for the Dale Jr. Download.
Welcome to the Arby's studio.
Arby's has got a new meat in three bucks.
Get more meal for your money at Arby's.
We had the meats and today we have the guest segment.
We've got a great guest coming in today that I'm really excited about.
Maybe some of you heard this name, but maybe some of you haven't.
Jay Hedgecock is going to be a guest.
Jay Hedgecock is a chassis builder.
Builds a lot of cars in the short track community.
Builds chassis.
We've bought chassis from him for quite a while now with our late model stock stuff.
Josh Berry drove his cars and he has lots of cars in the cars tour and across the southeast.
Builds all sorts of stuff, but his story is pretty cool.
Started racing, building his own cars back in the 70s.
My dad drove his cars a couple of times at the short tracks.
We'll talk about that.
I've seen the photos, have no idea about the stories.
He was a witness to some of dad's shenanigans on the short track courses around the southeast here
when dad was trying to cut his teeth and get his break in NASCAR.
Jay built cup cars for dad, Richard Petty, all sorts of people.
So it's going to be a lot of fun learning about his story.
This is a guy that loved to work on cars, loved building them, and has made his life doing that,
doing just that.
And I've seen him.
So I bought cars, I bought Hedgecock chassis for years.
Didn't really know Jay, couldn't have picked him out of a lineup.
Over the last few years that I got into the cars tour ownership and been going to the track
and competing and racing, I've started to meet Jay and see him at the track.
And I wanted to know about this connection with dad and obviously his story as someone in the industry.
So I'm excited about this.
This is my personal choice to bring him in.
And hopefully you'll enjoy the conversation.
Let's bring him in the room.
Jay Hedgecock.
I'm excited about this.
I have gotten to, I don't know you well as I like, but I know who you are and I know your name
and I've known your name for a long time because you built some really great race cars
for my race team at Junior Motor Sports.
And I recognized your name from some connections to my dad back in the day.
I made me want to learn more about you.
So thanks for coming out today.
Well, good.
I'm glad to be here.
So Jay Hedgecock has been a chassis builder for how many years now?
I built my first race car 55 years ago.
Yeah.
And I was 15 years old.
Yeah.
Your dad raced or was involved in racing and drove, I guess the winning car,
one of the winning cars in a feature to the Daytona Beach course
and then drove it back home.
Tell me that story.
My dad used to hang around Bill Blair, Bill Blair Sr.
Yeah.
And this was before he got married and had children stuff.
But the year that he won the Daytona 500 is in 1953 and my father drove
the Osmo Bill from High Point to Daytona and then they got it prepped for the race.
They changed it, took the headlights out of it and took the exhaust off of it
and put different wheels and tires on it and they won the race
and then they put it all back together and drove it back to High Point.
That's wild.
The next day, I mean.
Wow.
Things are quite different back then.
So you, was your dad, your earliest memories, I suppose, of your childhood,
your dad was involved in racing back then?
Yeah.
He knew a lot of people.
There was a lot of modified racing around High Point, Winston-Salem and stuff.
Yep.
And there was some guys over in High Point, Ken Rush, Harold Rush and Paul Walton
and they had repair shops all within 10 feet of each other in a little parking lot
and they all had modified cars and my dad would take me over.
And the one thing I remember when I was a kid, we got home one night
and I asked my dad, I said,
what was that in that 55 gallon barrel sitting in the shop?
I had them in glass bottles and it turned out it was a beer bottle.
Yeah.
And that was one thing I remember.
But they all, back then they ran coops and coaches and fuel injection and stuff
and it was cool.
I remember they used to let me sit in while dead and then piddled.
Yeah.
And so you wanted to build your own car?
And you?
I always wanted to build my own cars and then I started racing midgets
when I was 15 years old.
Micromidgets.
Micromidgets.
Yeah.
Where at?
There was a place at Union Cross Speedway.
Yeah.
Between Winston and High Point, I raced there
and then I'd raced something in Concord.
Yeah.
And you built this car yourself?
The very first one I had, I got it out of my uncle's junkyard.
My dad and my uncle built it.
How did they build it?
What do you pull out of the junkyard to build one of these?
Well, back then they hand-built it in their shop
but it was all round-tubing and made a sheet metal body
and they raced it around.
Different people drove it.
Max Barrier used to race.
It recently passed away.
He drove it and Ken Russ drove it.
They quit racing.
They quit racing and went to the junkyard?
Went to the junkyard and I found it in the bulldozer junkyard,
I call it, and drug it out and I got it ready
and then we raced it and eventually I built another one
a couple years later.
It was from the ground up I built.
Yeah.
And so how long did you do that before you,
you know, what was the next step?
Well, I raced those till I was probably from 15 to I was 19
and then when I was...
What kind of race tracks are you competing on?
It was like 10th and 8th of a mile, kind of like Millbridge dirt.
There was one in Concord that was asphalt.
I got you.
Who would go there and...
And your dad's helping you and taking you?
Yeah, they would go with me.
What were y'all towing?
We didn't towing them.
We put it in the back of the pickup truck.
Yeah, awesome.
I had a 64 Chevrolet pickup truck.
My dad bought brand new, we still have it.
Yeah.
And we put it in the back of the truck
and go to the racetrack and get a couple of people
help unload it and so it was good.
So you turn, you get up to around 19.
You were going to Davidson College?
Yeah, Davidson County Community College.
Okay.
That was...
You were enrolled in the General Motors Institute?
That's where I was going to transfer to.
I was going to take two years of college repair toy classes.
What was your ambition?
Where in that moment, you know,
were you thinking about going into automotive service repairs?
What was it?
It was just racing.
I thought...
You were going to learn all that
and then still go race.
Right.
You got a job with Tex Powell.
Right.
Tell me who Tex Powell is.
Tex Powell is one of the smartest people I've ever met.
You know, he's responsible for me knowing a lot.
For folks listening, if you're in the industry,
you hear Tex Powell's name a lot over the years.
So yeah, just trying to help us understand
the individual he was.
Yeah, he was a regular office from Texas.
And he came up here and he had a shop in Ashboro
and I happened to be down there with a friend
picking up some parts one day
and I'd been working after school at a cheap metal shop.
I mean, I was cheap, but a machine shop.
And they taught you a lot of stuff about sharpening drill bits
and stuff like that.
And when I got there, Tex was trying to drill a hole
in something.
It was making a terrible noise and squealing.
And I just told him, I said,
I can sharpen that for you, feel me too.
And so I sharpened it for him
and then he drilled right through it and he said,
can you sharpen some more for you leave?
And so I did.
And then he said, what else can you do?
I said, I can run your lathe and your mill.
And he said, well, you want a job?
I said, well, I'm in school right now.
And so then kind of worked around to where I worked some
and then I just quit school
and worked there full time.
And that's when we was building Benny Parsons cars
that LG do it on.
Really?
Yes.
They were in there.
They were in there.
And so what were we all doing to them?
Well, we put clips on them, whatever they needed, you know,
what other business was he doing in that shop?
He was starting to transmission area in business.
Yep.
That's what he was famous for.
Famous for, yeah.
Yeah.
And he he was doing that on the end of conjunction with
building race cars to repair and race cars and stuff.
But the big deal was just looking after LG stuff.
You know, and then we did some stuff for some
different people, you know, there was a couple of people
that we took Daytona and stuff that they ran and stuff.
Oh, you take care of the build the cars or whatever
and take them to Daytona for speed weeks and stuff.
The yeah, Tex Powell would become synonymous with
transmissions, rear and gears.
And I mean, if you raced Cup in the 80s, you had his
rear ends.
You had his trans everybody ran his stuff.
He was the guy.
So you work there for a while.
That must have been quite helpful to be able to be
under the to two leg of not only Tex Powell, but all
the other individuals who else was working there?
Any other recognizable names?
Well, Steve Mill worked there.
Oh, yeah.
He left and I was still there.
Yep.
And he went on to work at the petties and Jack
Rouse and stuff.
And a lot of the guys that worked down there, there
wasn't a lot of us that worked.
There was only two or three at a time.
And there was one guy we called him Zoomer and he
worked in this race and since he left the Tex and
Tex closed down, but he's recently passed away.
But it was just there's a lot of a lot of people
to come in and out.
You would meet and stuff.
Yeah.
You know, Waddell Wilson used to come up there
because he built a motor for LG back then.
Yeah.
So see him quite a bit.
Um, the you got hired to drive for Cliff Stewart.
Right.
Cliff owned a late model sportsman car.
He owned late model sportsman and cup cars.
Right.
Grand National cars.
Yeah.
So sportsman.
I guess this is in your 18.
But I was like 20 years old.
Okay.
And this would have been right around 70.
77.
77.
So who drove his cup car back then?
And I know eventually like, uh, he'd get the Gatorade deal
in 80, 80 or something.
He won or something.
But, um, he had Ricky Rudd, I think Rusty Wallace drove his
car for a year or so with the algae guard sponsorship.
But who was driving his cup cars back then?
At the time Darryl Bryant was driving them.
I got you Darryl Bryant.
He drove them.
Uh, they were the number of 50 cars and, uh, they had
three or four cup cars and two or three sportsman cars
and his son was friend of mine.
They, we were within a couple of years of being the same age
and lived in a neighborhood and, uh, Howard Stewart.
Okay.
He owned, uh, Stewart components.
Why they make water pump fuel pump and stuff like that.
Stewart logo that was on race cars forever.
Right.
Yeah.
And so he come to my shop one night and I was, I was
building a modified car.
I want to race modified and, um, what else sold me a
427 that they run the big blocks back then and I was
building a modified car and Howard showed up one night.
He said, he said, you know, daddy's got in race cars.
And I said, yeah, he said, you want to drive them?
And I said, yeah, you're on driving.
He said, I'm serious.
I said, he said, I'm going to bring them over tomorrow
then if you want to race.
I said, we're going to race.
He said, we'll go to Caraway.
I said, when he said this weekend, holy crap.
Like, oh God, you know, so they showed up with
a 69 Chevelle and, um, we messed with it and
got, I got him where I get the seat in there, fitted
and all.
And back then it was kind of like when your dad
first started, he had a Mustang seat, but sides on
it and that's what was in the car at the time.
And so we raced that car the rest of the year in
the very last race.
We run the thing.
It got total loss at Franklin County.
And so then we, we start building it was a late
afternoon race and it was, you know, some going
down and we were running and nobody could see good
enough to see there was a corresponding in the
corner and I went sliding in the corner and I locked
the brakes up and slid and I just slid up against
him and I was getting ready to put in reverse.
And about that time, Tommy Houston, he didn't see
the, he couldn't see for the sun and he hit me
wide open in the back.
And so that was, that was that little fellow.
What was the racing?
Um, what was the racing at the local tracks like
Caraway and so forth, uh, like comparable to today?
It was, it was a lot.
There was a lot.
There's so much people are able to watch TV that
you is harder to get full crowds like you did
back then back then we would have five, six,
seven thousand people a night, Caraway in places.
And, um, but it was, it was the bracing was
kind of a bit different back then that he was
more, I call gentlemen like, you know, they want
a lot of bump and runs, you know, if it was a bump
and run, it usually got taken care of the next
corner.
Yes.
You know, I mean, that's what your dad was
involved in one of them in one of my cars one
night.
Yeah.
It was this a lot different, you know, everybody,
nobody was really making a living.
I made a living doing it.
They actually, I was fortunate if I got paid
a salary and a percentage when I was 21
years old.
What was it?
You remember?
They gave me five hundred dollars a week to work
on them and then I got 40% of what you want.
Yeah.
That's pretty good.
Yeah.
When you're five hundred dollars a week back
then incredible.
Right.
What would you attribute in your life or career
that got you that opportunity?
Just Howard and them, you know, just, I mean,
Tex taught me so much that I knew what I
was doing working on race cars at a young
age.
Yeah.
And it was, were you working on a cup cars
as well?
Preparing all that stuff and helping them
with everything?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Texas place.
Yeah.
Well, when you went to Stuart's Cliffs, when
you went over there to drive for him, were
you helping him?
Were you driving for him?
Were you working there?
Were you?
They brought everything to my shop.
Everything.
Well, we just took the sportsman cars.
We didn't bring the cup cars.
We just brought sportsman cars and we
worked on my shop.
Did you have, was there, was it just you
driving his cars or some other dudes driving?
The only guy that drove it besides me
when I wasn't there with a, now I drove
them all there and then Morgan Shepherd
took over and then the next car that I
drove for a guy at Lexington, I built
two cars and your dad drove one.
Yes.
And then David Pearson drove the other ones
some.
Yeah.
They do special events.
How come you, how come, I guess, what
happened with Cliff where Morgan come
along?
I, you know, just wanted him changing
to the guards.
I guess you'd say my, the problem we had
was that my cars were way better than
my driving was at the time.
I was, you know, a year into driving
a stock car and all I knew was you got
to run as fast as you can ever lap.
It looked good for three quarters of
the race and then, you know, unless
you could get tires, you know, back
then, back then we could change
tires whenever you wanted to.
I know.
It's crazy.
And then unless you had a good
car, how come guys.
So today we run, you know, the cars
tour and lay model stocks and you
build a lot of chassis that compete
in our series.
You know, we run a four tire race.
You start to race run on 25 laps on
the same set back in the 70s.
And, you know, when Sam Arden,
butch Lindley and those guys are
racing every single week up and
down, you know, the East Coast.
How are they able to afford doing
that?
Well, back then the tires were
300 dollars a set.
Yeah.
But that's, I mean, the month
that was it was still expensive
for that timeframe.
Still expensive.
But I mean, there were some guys
had tire deals.
Yeah, we had it.
We had a partial tire deal.
I call it, you know, I mean, we
would, I don't know the whole
extent to it.
But and then they were tired.
There were multiple different
manufacturers and Firestone
was really good for a while.
If you didn't have Firestone,
you weren't going to be able
to win.
Yeah.
Things like that.
Firestones were the tire to run
it at Fayetteville.
Oh, Fayetteville was hard on
tires and that was when you
went to Fayetteville, you had to
have Firestone, you know, went
to Goodyear's when you carry
away Hickory places like that,
you know, he was on the Goodyear's
but I was I was friends with
Tom Parnell who was a Goodyear
dealer and he and so I pretty
much stuck to the Goodyear's.
Yeah.
I mean, I just couldn't, you
know, I couldn't kind of, he
was too nice to us.
You know, if they got a new
tire out, they wanted somebody
to try it because they didn't,
they didn't present nothing
to the officials.
They just said, Hey, here's
the tire, here's tires, you
know, and sometimes they say,
you know, don't stack them all
four high because they might
be two inches higher than
they're normal.
They're wider.
That's hilarious.
So you ran with with Stuart
from 77 through 81.
You had a 7th at the Cardinal
500 Martinsville in 77.
You had strong finishes of
4th at the 500, the Cardinal
579 and the Dogwood 500 in 81.
Track champions, chips at
Caraway in 79 and 80.
You ran a Grand American
race at Charlotte in 79.
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When do you meet my dad?
I knew him from just racing
when I started racing.
He'd bring his car around
and Gary Hargett's car.
That's right.
He drove out around
and I would see him then
and talk to him some, you know.
What was the opinion now?
No bulls*** straight up.
You can tell me the truth.
What was the general opinion of him
in 77, 78
when he was carrying a short-track car around
right before he got up into the cup deal?
I mean, he was the one
you didn't want your back bumper
on the last lap
because he was going to do whatever.
Because what I told somebody
about your dad one time was
when he drove my car
and I know he was getting
$5,000, $10,000 to come race it
and he didn't have to take a chance
but he was not content
to run second or third.
I mean, he was going to win the race.
If he could win the race
and he didn't race,
I don't think for money
he raced because he liked to race.
And that's the way,
I mean, he was, I mean,
he did whatever he had to do
to get to the front.
You know what I mean?
He was driving my car
at Martinville one time
and I was running
and I qualified in front of him.
Well, he was back then
they had restart
when you went into turn three
as every man for himself
leader could go with you single file
so you would jump to outside
whatever you wanted to do
and that one time
I don't know if you know Ronnie Revis
who was being our engines.
Anyway, he was my spotter
and caution come out
and he said,
they was making about five spots
per restart on the outside
before they come off a turn four.
And then he said,
so just be watch
he's about six cars back.
I said,
he said,
once you jump
beside this guy in front of you
and see if you can pick up some spots.
So I did it
when they started in three
I jumped outside
and about time
we started off the corner
Ronnie said outside
outside three wide
the guy was in my door
pushing me
and then your dad
winds up hitting the wall
comes off the wall
and messes up a rim
how to make a pit stop
and come up
at the race
so we come over
and he said
I said,
I tried
I said,
I didn't think he was going to get that far up
in that short period of time
and I didn't mean to get you in the wall
and he said,
hey,
he said,
I moved you in the wall too
if you had been in the middle.
So he ends up driving your car.
I know I've seen pictures of this
you know your car
at Martin'sville
with dad's name on it
and then
there's a picture of him at caraway.
Is that the only two times
that he drove?
That's the only two times
he drove it.
That was 81.
No, that was that was 1979
when he took over
Osterland.
Really?
79 he did that.
Had to yell a helmet.
Yep.
Yep.
So
he's got quite the reputation.
Having raced in
through 70s,
I guess,
you know,
76,
77,
78,
running all the short track races.
I got,
I got so many pictures of him
running his Nova
all around chasing y'all
and like,
how does the conversation start
for him to come drive your car?
Are you,
you know,
did you call him?
Did he call you?
No, actually,
the track promoter,
Russell Hack,
he calls and said,
hey,
he said,
I like to bring
Dale down here
and let him drive your car,
your second car.
If y'all are with,
you know,
fine with it,
but I didn't own them.
I just built them,
got paid.
And so they called the owner,
Bob Sweat and said,
hey,
you know,
work out a deal,
you know,
and I'm sure,
you know,
five,
$10,000,
drive it.
And I'm,
you know,
the night he drove with the car away.
I mean,
it was,
it was a big race,
you know,
200 laps,
you know,
and that night there,
I had to race one.
I was about a half straightaway ahead
and him and Sam were going at it,
like tooth and nail.
People were watching,
they wouldn't watch nothing,
but them too.
And so it would come down about five or six laps to go.
And I spotter says,
you got about a half straightaway.
Just be careful.
And so I run another lap,
I come around,
I get the back straightaway gate
and I look up to see where they're at.
And when I look back down,
all I see is three foot wide strip of oil and water.
A guy blew a motor going into three.
No caution lights,
no nothing.
Well, I let go of the gas thinking,
please just let me do it.
Well,
it just is like it sucked into the line of the oil.
I hit him head on,
then the caution comes out.
And so they have a restart with four to go.
And him and Sam are going at it.
I just watched a minute of it.
I said, this is not going in well because one of them
moved one in the next one in the other one next to him.
So come down the white flag and your dad's leading goes
into one Sam moves him up the hill.
They go down the back straightaway
and your dad makes a bonsai move to move him.
They both kind of spin and then your dad
tries to go the outside and Sam knocks it out of gear
or clutches it and come back up and kill it to him.
The guy run the 10th wins the race.
Oh, crap.
And so when the race is over with,
I mean, there was probably five,
six, seven thousand people there.
Yeah.
And there's pictures of people standing up
and I was talking to some of them.
They said, you know, the flagman come down there
about that time and I was talking to him and he said,
I'm sorry about the no cost.
But he said, I watched them.
I didn't watch you.
He said it was he said it was we knew is going to be
any moment they were going to be into it.
And we was watching him never saw Hensley blow a motor.
Yeah.
And I said, well, you know, I understand and you're
to the picture of my shop,
your dad sitting on the back of the trailer with me
and he's got him a solo company.
He's like and he's tell me he said, Hey, I'm sorry
I tore your race car up, but he started it.
He said if he couldn't, if I couldn't win,
he wasn't going to win.
Yeah.
And I was like, was Sam the kind of guy to get upset?
No, I mean, he was in the car.
He was, you know, mad.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
But that was it.
There wasn't no conversation.
No, no, you think, you know,
hearing stories about that and the way people act
today, anytime anybody has a confrontational
racetrack, you'd think that in my mind,
when I hear this story, right of dad and Sam going
at it, tooth and nail, and then eventually that ends
up spending them both out.
You'd think there would have been a crowd in the infield
and a lot of insults and angry.
No, the fans were more upset.
Well, I'm sure.
Yeah.
But you know, because there was there was more
Dale Earnhardt fans there than the war Sam Hart.
Okay.
You know, I mean, it was so, you know, you just
take and you listen to them.
But I mean, as far as the drivers go, you know,
it wasn't like people were swinging and you know,
it was just what kind of damage was done to the
car?
Was it all body damage?
His car was all, you know, cosmetic lower stuff.
My car had that front clip.
Yeah.
You mentioned being there care way during another race
where dad and butch Lindley got into it.
Marty works here as crew chief on one of the cars
and we talk about our dads all the time.
Butch Lindley was considered and still considered
today is one of the greatest short track racers
in NASCAR history.
There's a big push for butch to try to get himself
into the Hall of Fame.
He's one of 500 races.
The majority of those were NASCAR sanctioned
events on the short tracks of tons of track
champions.
You you're a witness to his career.
You'd agree with right how amazing butch Lindley
was him and dad apparently had a hell of a battle.
I've heard like little brief like comments about this
but not from anyone who was there.
Yeah, I was racing then.
I was probably 16 17 years old and so it come down
as another deal.
You know, it was a big race, you know, to I think
the 200 lapper and everybody been putting on tires
and and it come down to them to and I mean butch
was leading and your dad got underneath him right
there to end the race and they run side by side
so they come off forward to get checkered flag and
your dad was trying to get him to lift and and squeeze
them and and butch didn't he didn't lift and so
they he hit the wall climbed the wall and when
he comes down, he's on top of your dad's car on
the roof and I mean they when they come out
of star finish line sparks are flying and
they're I mean just people.
I have pictures of it somewhere.
I've tried to find them but a lot of time people
borrow pictures but they when they cross the line
like your dad's hood was about six inches in front
of butch's hood and when they stop, they're still
hooked together.
Yeah, it took him, you know, two records and you
know, 30 minutes to get him untangled and they
get out, you know, you know, they're.
Okay, yeah, no big deal.
No big deal.
We we raced and you know, you won.
Yeah, after your deal with with Cliff
champion, you went and you went and started running
more modifies got into modified racing.
What was the what was your path?
Well, I took and I drove a few people's sportsman
cars and then they turned into Bush series cars
and then I was at Orange County for a race
one night.
There was a NASCAR tour race there and I wasn't
going to drive it took my helmet and stuff just
in case and I was there was a late model
racing and a bush race there and I and I just
in case somebody wanted one nobody said anything
on Friday.
So we went out partying on Friday night and Saturday
morning I get there to the racetrack at Orange
County and I feel bad bad.
The guy comes to me said, Hey, my driver didn't
show up.
You're gonna drive my modified car and I said,
I guess I don't know and he said, come on,
get in it.
I went over and went to bathroom first and made
a strike when I'm going to throw up the car.
And so get in the thing and run a few laps and
the guy said, well, we're fast.
He said, you want to race it?
And yeah, I mean, I will do it.
It was a 40 or 50 some cars that we qualified
for with a thing and then got about five of us
got wrecked on about lap three and and he
didn't have it.
He had a little fiberglass seat in there that
was not made for me.
Broke four or five rear and hit like,
so then then I started driving his car some and
then I'll drive other people's cars too.
But I always like to modify cars.
What are you doing for a living now?
Or then I was building cars for other people.
Yeah.
So you had started building chassis and had
gotten into a pattern of better, you know,
having regular customers.
Right.
What kind of cars were you building?
Mainly like my sportsmen cars.
Yeah, I built some Phil Parsons, different people,
you know, just whoever come in there would want one.
What what you had a jig and build any car?
You anytime anybody want a car, you build one.
Yeah, because I built two jigs whenever I was
building the Howard Stewart's cars.
Yep.
And then the eight cars that I drove.
How big was your shop?
At the time it was a it was just a Quanson hut
like 60 foot long by 25 foot wide.
Yeah.
I had my jigs where I could bolt wheels on them
and take them outside because I kept two cars in there
and I had two jigs and I would take a work on them,
roll them out and stuff.
And then I built.
Do you have pictures of all this?
Yeah.
Oh man, I bet it's badass.
And now the big the funniest thing is back.
I know, you know, Jerry Kennan.
Yes.
Okay.
Jerry worked for me as a crew chief me for a while
and we came out with the blue eight car
and we went the car away with a thing
and we broke the track record the first time.
So then back then they won.
They like to like the bed on things and on my walls
of my Quanson hut still there.
They took chalk and wrote work on everybody put five
hours in the pot and bet and see how fast you run this week.
Yeah.
And I actually broke track record three weeks in a row
and they put a check mark beside the name
who won the money.
Yeah.
And then that was, you know, that's all still there.
Yeah, still there.
Yeah.
What's in that building now?
Just a lot of restored stuff.
Yeah, any old parts pieces and things from the history.
Yeah, I've got a lot of stuff.
I still got a lot of stuff in the other building.
Yeah.
Oh, man, I bet it's cool to walk through there.
Yeah.
So you're building chassis and just kind of, you know,
that's that's funding your that's how you're making a
living is building cars for people and you're still going
to the racetrack and driving.
You would end up finishing third at the track championship
in 83.
You had 10 wins at Orange County Speedway.
You ran the World Series of Asphalt at New Sumerna and had
a win there all the as recent as 1990.
You won a 150 lap or an 86 at Wilkesboro and all
in modified stuff.
Then you had a serious crash at IRP in 88.
What happened there?
Yes.
We went up there for a NASCAR tool race and we've been
running there and you know how it is IRP use racer before
you could stay up top run momentum deal.
Yep.
And we've come about halfway through the race and the guy
got into me coming off to and it kind of I turned it a little
sideways and when I went to correct it, he hit me again
and just turned it right and I caught the gate.
Yep.
Right in the middle of the back street.
Yeah.
And then when he did it just like shot the car around
and I'm going down the back straightaway backwards and
I can see I'm going to go for the wall and the last thing
I remember was hook, hook in my arm around the head, the
seat side rest from my shoulder or my ribs and you
didn't have a left side headrest back then and I just
remember thinking I needed to stop from getting into the
wall here on my head and it hit so hard that it shot
the rear and out the right side of the car and my head
went out the window and hit the concrete.
It did.
Yeah.
And and it was I was unconscious for, you know, several
hours off and on, you know, I never woke up till they got
me to the hospital.
Kenny Schrader come to see me because they told some of
me that I thought he's dead.
You know, he was behind us and he come to see make
sure I was all right and they told him he'll be
all right.
I got a pretty bad concussion from the recushing of
the brain slamming back to the right side of my head
when they got ready to leave the next day.
The the I remember that was sitting here and my buddies
were going to carry me back.
They didn't want me flying an airplane with my concussion
and I remember one of them, the doctor said, now you
can't let him drive and one of the boys said, well, if
he could drive, we wouldn't be here.
The doctor told me, he said, look, he said you damaged
the part of your brain that controls numbers and he
said numbers are going to be a problem and it may last
a week, a day, a month or a year and may never come
back.
And so I didn't I was the cert.
What do you recall about those type of symptoms?
Like you had severe headaches on the right side.
You know, just anytime if you even try to drink a mouthful
of alcohol, a glass of wine or anything that hurts
so bad you couldn't stand it.
And but I remember I got home next day.
The phone bill coming to mail and I was looking at
and I was like, you know, well, I remember
paying the bill, but they crossed in the mail.
So I needed to subtract the old from the new statement.
And I looked at the numbers and they were look like
Chinese.
I'm like, this is not good.
Yeah.
And what you do for a living is, you know, measurements
and numbers.
And it was it's about two weeks later.
I was went to the restaurant eat breakfast.
I picked up a newspaper and I was reading it and
he got to some numbers and I recognized and I got the
waitress's note pad and I wrote some numbers down
and I added them up and I asked the guy beside me.
I said, is that right?
And he said, oh, yeah, I just check and just make sure
and it just came back came back like a light switch.
Yeah, I've learned the way I kind of feel about things
like that and my own experiences to describe it
to somebody when you have a head injury.
It's like it's like clipping some wires or some circuits
and those circuits have to fuse back together and it is
almost in a lot of cases like a light switch like you'll
have these symptoms.
They'll be they'll be what they are.
They don't like ease away.
They just are there all the time and then you wake
up one day and it's better.
That's exactly where this was.
Yeah.
And not everybody's experiences like that, but that's
that's one of the that's one of the ways that can can be
experienced when you're when you recover from head injuries.
Was that the only head injury that you remember having
from racing?
I'm sure you had plenty.
I've had a couple got knocked out.
You know, we crashed at Concord one night coming
off corner turned my head on into all and I remember
when I come to couldn't pick my head up couldn't move
my arms and I could see light and people yelling and
run around and I and they're looking at me yelling
at me and I could move my eyes but nothing else would
move and I thought I'm going to paralyze and then they remember
the roof come off of it and they're getting a backboard
down me and then all of a sudden you like tingling all
through your extremities and then you can start moving
your fingers getting just a shock.
I guess the doctor crazy.
Yeah, bam.
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you built some cars in the in the Bush series
we started building some cup chassis's how did
that process happen you know late model sportsman
car obviously changed over the course of of a few
years and how do you get opportunities I suppose
to start building cars on the couple level people
just come see you I mean they know me from racing
with like when the patties come to see me they
want me to build cars for him the 88 89 and why
did they want to start using your business they
just wanted something different and they had a
Larry Rathgab I don't know if you know the name
Larry graph he was a engineer or Chrysler he's
been wanting and did to get cars okay they
hired him and they designed a car and work with
me and we that's what we built in 88 89 for
Richard and so they you know where what was
your you know there's some different I don't know
I I've there's been different chassis builders
over the years and all of them sort of come out
with the the latest and greatest idea right and
and so what are some of the things I suppose that
you felt like that you helped usher in to the
chassis builder world or what were some of the
things that maybe you started doing earlier than
other people that might have you know kind
of set yourself apart.
Well I mean we we Tex told me this you know
try to make things light as you can but still
make it structurally sound and that's that's
one thing we've always tried to make a car
safe you know I mean try to don't use no light
roll bars and stuff like that and and we just
we wound up being able to build them and drive
them helps because like when I built Richard
petty cars I would test them for him really
yeah so I got luckily when they built Richmond
the new configuration I got to the test and
tire test for the good year radios damn that
was the first time they got tested and it
just helps whenever you know I can cut a car
up and on Saturday go back to the racetrack
and drive it and say that's better that's worse
yeah and that's kind of I think that helps a
lot but me being able to drive some that I
can tell if there's better or worse myself
what are some of the things that a chassis
builder has to be always kind of aware of
I mean what are you know what are the
things that you guys are if it feels like
where we are today like there's no more
things to learn right no that's not really
true because we're always everything's always
obsolete what was good last year you know
isn't good enough this year everybody tweaks
and twist things I imagine back in the 80s
and and and up through the late 80s you
know there was still a ton to be learned
and improved on these chassis really the
front clip rear clip trailing arm system
the front points all that stuff from
back then it's very similar to what we're
still using today very very close very
close but back then you know I know that
we were getting different chassis from
different cars you know in the late model
world we were doing you know we get a
towns and car we'd get a bolt and
hammer car and front clips be quite
different you know and and so there
were a lot of different theories I suppose
you know it's kind of what you know
what was it like us you know going going
back and being a part of the industry
back then being able to be creative being
able to have being able to know there's
like a lot here that you could probably
discover right go cutting cars apart
running them driving them changing them
fixing them finding little things how
fun was that to be part of that
creative process that was that was a
lot of fun that was like whenever
we tested stuff you know we could
always tell good or bad and the big thing
we played with back then it's like now
and we try to spend those you know back
then when we ran the the rear steer cars
I don't think you ever ran a proper rear
steer car you know that I had Kelly
had a rear steer bolt and hammer late
model that I drove a little bit that
we got Robert Elliot that's the only car
I ever drove that was a rear steer right
and then we you know we kind of
progressed away from the rear steer
stuff to the Chevelle type just
pension because that's basically what
everything was based off of back then
was a 64 Chevelle you know everybody
just kind of took one of those and then
jigged off of that and you made your
own points and stuff and then for a
while you know became the craze was a
drop-snout we did that in the
Busheries in the late 90s you know
early 2000s we were still running
drop-snout cars why was and that
would come and go right but you
know you everybody have an inch and
a half drop and then everybody go
back to standard and then everybody go
back to drops again why was why I think
a lot of that is monkey see monkey do
yeah but I mean somebody the tires
change the tire may determine some of
I think a lot of it determined by the
by the tire yeah because I mean like the
tire we ran this past weekend if
Florence is different than we ran
last year really yeah it reacts
different and it's just set up from
last year that we we led with
didn't work you know this year and
same way with cup everything back then
they change the tire you know then
drops now it's a way to go you know and
and some drivers like the drop-snout
car I mean regardless of the tire right
you know they just they felt more
comfortable that yeah we predominantly
run the drop-snout car at all the
short track stuff I don't know that
we were really taking drops now it's
to speedway ways but like Charlotte even
but once you drove one and you're
and you got it in your mind that that
thing cut the corner better you were
convinced right you know and it took a
lot for you to to believe anything it
believe otherwise you know it have to be
a significant you know you'd be at a
test somewhere with a standard in a
drop and that that standard would have
to do some pretty damn good stuff to
convince you otherwise right that the
drop wouldn't the way to go that was
when we had the bush cars back in
the 89 or the 98 99 season the red
head of step child and all that stuff
the red chassis those are our
drop-snout cars and felt and everybody
was buying them because we were just
doing so well with them but you ended
up build you talked about building
cars for Richard petty you were the
one that built the chassis that for
the car that flipped down the
front straightaway at Daytona not the
way you want to see the that go but
you talk about building safe race
cars that was a hell of a wreck and
Richards you know toward the back
end of his career at that point you
know those wrecks are harder to you
know harder to walk out of in his case
and you had to be pretty happy with
how that thing held up considering
all the things that went through
during that crash because I was
standing on pit road you know and
then what happened right in front
of something like oh no this is
bad you know and he when he
finally stopped you know it the
flipping part wasn't so bad but
when he got hit in the left front
and spun him so fast where they
owe anyone's on the radio going you
know del Richard you're right you're
right you're right never said a word
never said a word Richard you're
right you're right finally he finally
come on radio and he said yeah I'm
I'm alright I'm alright but I can't
see nothing he said my eyes aren't
working and when he the doctors
did when he spun it so fast that
the blood vessels and all the blood
went out his eyes Jesus and he
couldn't see and then you know he
was he was the biggest problem he
had was his knees and stuff were
banged up so bad sure and so I was
gonna crew relief drive for him at
Richmond really the next race they
had me a pair of standby and I was
in the trailer the morning of the
race and and he said you gonna you
gonna be alright I said yeah be
alright he said well I'm just get
your suit on when it's race starts
and he said if I feel bad we'll
just make stop whatever we do lose
laps whatever we do and the doctor
coming there and they started
taking fluid out of his knees and
I'm like there's no way he's gonna
run this race and shoot about first
caution come out we run good and he
said I'm gonna be fine he said you
I ain't gonna I ain't gonna get out
but I just went to drive some golf
and watched you know you ran you
know you talk about being a standby
for him you had raced in the cup
series a handful of times but not
many you raced your your debut was at
North Wilkes-Burle in 93 you'd run a
two starts in 94 at Wilkes-Burle
Martinsville all short tracks you had
a bad crash at Pocono had an engine
from Ernie Elliott running good in
practice made an adjustment and got
got yourself turned around backwards
broke your ankle we rented a
racetrack and back when you could
rent the racetrack and we were by
ourselves up there that day you know
and time-wise I was slow we had a
motor now that Ernie had given me to
test with and he said it's just it
will get you around the racetrack and
so we kept working on it working on
it and really didn't run fast and I
called Terry Labani I said where do
I need to lift going into one and
he said well you need to live about
you know number five or something
on the board you know there he
said were you lifting I said one
he said you don't have no motor you
know he said if it drives good you'll
be fine so we come back and Ernie
sent us a new motor and we got the
racetrack Ernie said this thing is
better than the bills I'll tell you
he said it's gonna be better than
bills so we were top ten fast as the
first practice I had a guy Dean
Johnson that was crew chief man he
come over and this is when spoiler at
a spoiler height rule but you could
put it whatever you want to angle
with he said you can you run faster
than that on another mock run
that I guess so he said I'm gonna
late take some spoiler out of it
wrong thing to do yeah I get into
one down there just before I go to
third gear it turns around backwards
and I hit the water driver's door
golly and it ricochet is off the
wall and comes back down and I remember
coming back down in the four cars
on a mock run and he comes by my
nose at 175 mile an hour miss me as
I'm sliding backwards and the spotter's
on the radio yelling are you alright
are you alright and I'm still sliding
and finally Ernie yelling he's on
he's over in the garage here I heard
him yell at the boy with them talking
to me when he said he's still he
said not through wrecking leave him
alone so you broke your ankle there
yeah yeah I got the drillens going
you don't realize you hurt you
know yeah get out stepping your leg
folds up and then then my knee was
dislocated where he's steering calm
and so they just won him deals you
know you kind of you ran that was
wonder what year that was what year
was that that was 94 you ran the
all-star opening 95 in a ride
sponsored by diamond Rio right how
did that come about well the the
Mr. Wilson owned cars he was
vice president RJ Reynolds yeah and
he had to took care of the cars we
kept them in our shop down all right
and uh and then we uh we've been
messing with some people the blue
rhino people the propane people yeah
they were just starting and they
want to be on the car and they knew
some people in the music industry
and so they come by the shop one
like mr. Wilson did and he said I
think we got a sponsor he said you
know about diamond Rio and I said
trucks and he said no he said country
music so he said go get some CDs and
listen to them yeah and so they're
gonna sponsors and so it was it was
a good it was a good deal they were
nice really nice yeah we went to
several shows with them and but it
was I got in the middle of a divorce
and the the racing was you know
racing and with two young children you
know it's kind of they had people come
in to buy into the team and they wanted
to change you know we went to went to
Richmond and I missed a race by two
thousandth of a second you know and
then and so they just kind of like
went to other direction yeah I was
upset but you can't blame them this
money and it's a sport that was the
end of your your career on the you
know in terms of cup racing and and
bush starts you know eventually you
would build cup cars for dad the car
that dad wrecked Terry with at Bristol
was your race car your chassis at the
time Kevin Hamlin was the crew chief
on the car they had their own chassis
shop but they came over to you looking
for something different well they
were buying cars from Hopkins then
yeah you know and so then Kevin them
coming to the shop and wanted they
decided they wanted to try something
different what were you going to do
different I mean it was just my cars
were a little bit going to be a little
bit lighter yeah like at the time I had
bought a die that the Plymouth tube
company that makes rollbar pipe and
they made us a die that I bought and
they would run a meal run of my
rollbar tubing it was 90,000 plus or
minus a half where everybody else was
95,000 period and and I got to choose
my the carbon rated and I wanted the
type of tensile strength I wanted and
it made a difference yeah and so we
built they come over one to cook they
said build us two cars but don't tell
nobody yeah don't tell nobody who
they're for and I got them done they
come picked them up and that one
evening after work and took them to
RCR and the next morning I don't think
it they lucky they still have the job
really it would didn't go it didn't
why who was mad yeah I mean there's
people kind of over over the crew
chiefs were not happy yeah that they
just went out on their own and did it
and they tested them you know start
testing and they they were always
good real good and then finally they
poking a Dale wrecked last practice
after qualifying they carried mine as a
backup every week and they pulled mine
off and he started in the rear and I
think he run third or something he
should have needed just a little bit
more he could have won the race sure
that was there was a one car he loved
was serial number 44 and he wouldn't
run that thing everywhere we didn't run
those speed ways was all short track
and Charlotte stuff because we were
they raced at Richmond one night and
he got in a wreck down there and knocked
right front corner off and smashed some
dark bottom two door bars up and they
call me and said look we got bit
Charlotte Wednesday we'll have a
stanchor shop in the morning Sunday
morning at 8 o'clock and we need it
back by that night we had to call
my guys they look it's shop we got fix
the car we put half front clip on it
two door bars they picked it up and
they was at Charlotte with the thing
Wednesday and then that's that's the
car he ran it it Bristol when he
rattled Terry's cage yeah that was
your your only cup career win as a
chassis builder right yeah what was
the decision I supposed to you know
go the route you went where now
you're you know you're a you know
household name in the short track
industry in terms of late models late
model stocks everybody's you know
everybody's buying cars from you how
come you know that that opportunity
and the success of those cars didn't
develop into something more long term
or or even other opportunities with
other teams or I don't know it's a
lot of it most people didn't even know
that we were building all right yeah
I mean I've you know I've got you hate
do you wish you'd have done that
differently or no the way I mean I'm
still satisfied with where I'm at yeah
you know I mean yes you could have
built more of them yeah I built I built
some first of all brothers yeah and
I'm Hamilton drove them stuff and so
but I mean I built different ones but
I don't know I kind of like the
short track deal why there's I don't
know if to me it's just it's a lot of
fun you know on Saturday night and I
looks like dealing with people that you
know short track racing stuff and it's
the speedway race stuff is fine and all
and it's it's more money in it
obviously but but I just kind of grew
up you know with a short track deal
and that's I just kind of enjoy that
yeah I still go every week yeah so
currently you know you build chassis
for for us at junior motorsports for
our late models and other teams as well
across the cars tour across late model
stocks what other chassis y'all build
we do we do some super late models a
little bit and I'm starting to build
some modified cars again yeah I've had
people call me want me to build some
modified cars so I got a new one
started it'll be a house car damn and
where will it run we'll run that
southern modified yep deal with who
probably Jason Myers I'm gonna test
at some Jason Myers works for me part
time does he yeah I didn't know that he
works UPS gets off there
he comes over and he's a good dude yeah
yeah he's funny when you're looking to
hire somebody it's not just about
finding someone to fill the void it's
about finding someone with the right
background experience skills to get
the job done because you don't want
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hiring do it the right way with indeed
where's your shop at then high point
high point yeah and it's been it's been
there since all these years I built I
was at morn'sville racing in 1983
and I was at the hotel that night
and my my grandfather he loved racing
but he didn't really want me racing
yeah you know and he had money and
he would always come up to the front
of the shop the quantsan hut and roll
the winded down he said why didn't you
insert tonight well you know got outrun
grandpa but I was there the hotel
and the phone rang and I answered
and my my mother said your grandpa
was here and he wants to how big a
building you want I said what do you
mean he said he's gonna build your
building I said I don't know and he
said well here's your options he
gave me the options I'm gonna take
the biggest one angle take the smallest
when I get in the middle yeah and he
said all right he said I'll have the
bulldozer over tomorrow morning when
you get home from the race start
bulldozing trees down forgot where
you gonna put it so we built the
first building was like a 60 no it's
40 by 75 and then in 88 I added on
and now like 225 by 12 12 employees
building how many cars a year do you
think it just depends I mean the most
I've ever built in one year was like
35 yeah you know that it varies from
the majority of your cars late-mile
stock right this time yeah what do
you enjoy about late-mile stock racing
it's just fun to work on them and
just try to make them go faster you
know we've got Mason Diaz driving
forth this year and he's he's really
good he's a good dude yeah yeah he's a
good driver he knows what he's doing
yeah he's kind of been looking for
opportunity over the last couple of
years right yeah we had some pretty
good runs when last year set on the
pole with a speedway with him and
then got spun out and but he's
he's really good in it sometimes he
we have trouble qualifying but we've
been working on that but he know he
really knows he has his racecraft down
good you know he we would been good
Saturday night but you know they kind
of jammed up we got turned around in
that deal it's just nobody's fault
yeah one of them racing deal yeah for
sure what's that schedule look like
this year how how do you decide how
much you're gonna race your house
cars we're gonna run every cars to
raise no kid run all the cars to
raise how did you decide that that's
what Mason wants to do I know but
like you have to do you have to
make financial sense of it yeah well
I mean it's it's um he's got sponsor
money yeah he put some stuff together
right he was frustrated a couple years
ago trying to figure some things out
we drove our car hickory one weekend
and I think he's a hell of a little
driver yeah and he works hard we know
it's his dad on Southern National for
folks out there listening and and and
Mason when Southern Nationals having
their events Mason works really really
hard running the program or helping
the event come off well so he's not
afraid of hard work no he's he when he
runs that racetrack down there it's like
clockwork that's right yeah whatever the
schedule is stays on schedule and
everything runs runs really well you
get by the shop he comes by her once a
while yeah and then we he's supposed
to come by here we're gonna go test
here pretty soon where we're gonna go
to Southern National and test gotta
get ready for the car to leave off
leave it off event yeah I'm excited
I you I want to tell folks your cars
have won numerous national titles the
events auto parts series titles and
12 times 0809 11 12 13 15 16 17 20
21 23 and 24 numerous car store
championships 16 17 22 23 24 25 so as
a chassis builder in the late model
stocks and you know the mid-Atlantic
region of the United States what is you
know you've seen a lot of change you've
seen even in the recent years our tires
have changed a lot over the course of
the past couple of years the cars tours
went through a lot of change and growth
you know I I set I sat down all the
time and just contemplate you know
what direction we're headed and are
we are we doing what we need to be
doing so that we can sustain success
right and and everybody is as long as
we've ever raced I mean you can pull
magazines out of the out of the rack
in the from the 80s the 70s it don't
matter everybody talked about how
expensive it was and it's always going
to be an expensive hobby but what are
some of the things I suppose that you
are concerned about what are some things
that you think you know as short
trackers us as an industry us us all
trying to pull this in the right
direction what did some of the things
you think we need to be you know
aware of mindful of what are some of
the things you know that you're
excited about looking forward to you
know I I miss I missed this idea so
a couple of years ago Landon Huffman
made a YouTube video about how much it
cost him to go race at Hickory he
had a weekly car that he ran out of his
dad's shop and he nick he he basically
itemized his entire season down to
about 60 grand and when me and Kelly
and Kerry were racing our late models
at Hickory Tri-County and the beach
annually I think our budget was around
$60,000 in the 90s that's a lot of
money but you know it is going to be
an expensive hobby I don't think it's
going to get any cheaper than that
but we've seen cost rising we've
seen you know there's there's you know
there's more there's you know teams have
full-time employees tires have gone up
you know you mentioned how tires used
to be 300 set I remember when we go to
the beach and race in the 90s for it
they were 400 set they're twice that
now those things are out of our
control there's a lot of things that
we can't you know we can't control it
we can't tell a good year or who's
your how much to charge for their
tires but you know what is some of the
what do you I want this to last forever
you know I love I don't I don't even
like to call it grassroots race I love
short track racing I love our local
shows I love our our cars tour I love
super late models pro-late models I love
what's happening down in Daytona right
now with new Samaritan speed weeks
and all that good stuff I love seeing
what's going on at Berlin all the
great successes across the country what
what harvests done with the West tour
what what do we need to do as a guy who
seen this forever what do we need to do
to be mindful that it continues I
think the way you're doing the cars tour
that there's so much publicity you know
I get people in the local restaurant I
got to you know that the farmers and
people that have no idea about race
and they just know that I mess race
car they watch cars to race you know
and in there there's so much interest in
the cars tour stuff that it makes it
easier to for I think for people get
sponsor money you know just because of
publicity that you bring and the whole
series is brought to TV you know and I
think that that in itself is going to
translate down to other short tracks
not next to the cars tour but these
other people see you know hey you
know this this cars tour deal you know
is this good deal maybe these people
would carry away want some money and we
don't mind the sponsor them because TV
is TV it hurts in a way it hurts the
grandstands but it's in the long run is
better because of the amount of people
you actually get to see that are
watching the race yeah that's you
know it's kind of a heavily soared for
sure right yeah yeah there's a balance
to be to be cast between being a
touring series that's trying to succeed
profit pay for you know we have a we
have a we have a forecasted cost of how
much it cost to run the series and we
want to be able to bring in break even
and and the series has to be has to
afford itself with that said we have
to be mindful of the the local racers
at South Boston the local racers at
Careway and the the landscape has
changed even what our local tracks are
doing the feature car you know has it
some tracks gone away from the late
mall stock and more toward a limited
which in my mind I mean the limited is
the same car same car just a little bit
less power and which I actually kind
of I want to embrace I like the idea
of the limited car being the feature
car the primary car some of these
tracks because it is more affordable
it is it is kind of its head it's
it's hedging back toward you know the
possibility of that guy having that race
car in his in his garage outside the
house you know that we we all depend on
for the local show you know I've I've
always you know really enjoyed being
around I'm the same as you like I
would I would prefer I prefer you know
to be standing in that pits at Florence
during the icebreaker as opposed to the
garage at a at a at a at a big event
somewhere and it's nothing personal
it's just I do know that all the people
that are you know for example the
icebreaker this past weekend the people
that are there there because they
want to be right every single person
there is there because they are
absolutely in love with it right and
and it's a it's a it's really an
interesting thing and it took me a while
to get back there it took me a while to
get back to it I should have had
opportunities to race my car and race
with Josh or do be closer to that whole
deal and experience more with what
Josh was doing in our late models
Josh Berry but I was hesitant and I
should have done it sooner but it's
been a lot of fun to get plugged back
into it and you've been a witness
to it for all these years obviously
you know the engine builders everybody's
got very similar power there's not like
a guy out there with a bunch of you know
a bunch more power than anyone else
where's you know the chassis builders
there you've got the competition in
the chassis world you always have you
know how do you navigate that how do
you how do you stay competitive
still build a safe car you know
you'll have people come in I
think a great example would be when Tony
Junior Tony junior and those guys got
in the fury deal and the fury car was a
brand new chassis and they kind of took
over some market share and was competitive
with Hampey and and other builders and
all that ebbs and flows and builders
kind of come and go how do you know
haven't how do you navigate that and
stay competitive well the big thing is
that you got to have good people
driving it and working on it but in
like I say you got to win races you
got to win races you know for me to
stand business I tell somebody's got
to win somebody's got a wreck that's
just bottom line I get it
you got to have a car crossing the
finish line then you got to have one to
fix right so but I mean we work on
stuff all the time you know we have
pulled down rig at the shop and we
work on that in my son experiments
and travel we try different spindles
and stuff and you know you just got
it doesn't take much to be 15th
the first when you're talking about
900 and so if you come up with a
spindle or a combination or a shock
package that you know that works and
picks you up nine hundredth then you
know that puts you up front and that's
what that's what we do you know I mean
and having people you know like your
drivers you know with Josh and Josh
when Josh figured it out Josh was
impossible to beat yeah I mean when
he finally is that good for business
yes yes very good yes but I mean
that's you know and the quaffos are
really good in your car and they
they're really nice and I mean they
they win races and and that's your
man Shaffer that looks after the deal
and he and our old school yeah and
he mean him get along good and
they'll just we exchange ideas and
stuff and and that's what I gotta
do you can't just sit on what you've
got you know you gotta keep working
you know we we come up with some things
this winter that we did the cars and
you know and I think it's made them
better and you're not gonna you're
not gonna build a car and find a
half a second no days of that are
over and done with you know you got
you got the little by little creep
up on it yeah what advice would you
give to me and Kevin and all the
guys running the tour on how to
make sure the tour is successful and
the cars successful chassis
successful I think about the lake
model stock car it's a it's a regional
car it lives in this bubble it's not
a national car it's not like a pro or
super I mean I would love for it to
become have a bigger footprint but
that we don't it's difficult for our
owners to want to travel farther than
we're going some of these races but
you know what's what advice would
you give to us as a as a tour to try
to I mean the way things are going
right now I mean yet it's on the right
path you have you have really good
people you know Carson and really good
looking after things the racetrack and
I mean everything to me right now was
as good like I told you we get so
much so many people calling inquiries
like my wife show me emails this
morning people wanting to rent race
cars inquired in the car yeah what is
the um you know I know that there's
own I know that our owners you know
bulk it you know traveling further than
our sort our bubble as a chassis
builder you know is it is it advantage
is for you to have the car racing further
out into the Midwest or up north or
what what would where do you does it
matter does it make a difference to
you do you want to see I mean it the
more they race you know a different
place you know we had better is we
had hinted about taking it down to
New Samaritan trying to find a way to
be a part of speed weeks just because
we thought that'd be a great showcase
for our our series Berlin is begging
us to come up there and race you know
but it's a it's a haul right long way
to go um but these tracks are calling
they're wanting to want to see how
to get the cars to where their fans
are asking for it our owners are
absolutely not interested in it and
I can totally understand that and I
don't want to do anything that's
going to deter our teams from
competing with us so there's a it's a
weird sort of juxtaposition to be in
where I think like a guy like you
would love to sell cars more nationally
right but and there's some of our
owners that would probably benefit
from the tour becoming a bigger
having a bigger footprint but um
yeah I don't know how to I don't
know I'm not I'm not really pursuing
that seriously but I'm just kind of
curious as to like if you ever did
want to kind of expand the tour
how could you do it where everybody
would be all in you know pulling the
same route in the same direction yeah
I mean I think before it so was I
think somebody's gonna present you
all with enough money to entice people
to go yeah I mean I'm sure there's
people just and working with y'all
now yeah that wanted to be part of
this deal and sponsor it you know
like I sponsored the pole award for
since it was started for several
years and I mean there's people with
a lot more money than I ever thought
about having that or wanting to get
into your sport just because of
what it's become now you know and I
think you know you start you come up
with a deal where somebody wants to
sponsor the series that okay we're
going to pay $25,000 a win every
race you're gonna get people drive
their truck yeah that far so that's
a great question we're getting
toward the wrapping up here but
I've so I don't never owned a
series before didn't have any
experience don't pretend to have all
the answers or know exactly how to
do it but we're working hard and
where we it is on our mind and we're
doing we're working on it every day
you know we're trying our hardest I
have I've had an interesting
experience trying to find out what
gets teams excited and about coming
to the racetrack and so I've I've had
teams go out of their way to go race
for big first place money in a race
that that didn't pay anything from
second on back right and they they
loved it they're like I'm going to
run that that pays this big check
knowing that the odds of them
actually went in the race you know
were tough but they knew they knew
that there was you know they were
going to that race going to go all out
and spend all the money and effort
that it took to go do that and then
you'll have a race where it pays
relatively nice on the front end but
the back ends boosted and nobody
seems to I know recognize like you
would think like hey man I'm all you
know if it cost you twenty two hundred
bucks to just get to the racetrack
and get everything your tires and
your twenty two hundred dollars in as
soon as you buckle up to go practice
right I'm gonna you know if the back
end of the purse covered that you
think that would draw a lot of
interest but it really doesn't seem
to do that I don't know if the late
model stock bubble is as big as it
can be I mean there's only like I
said it's only racing in this sort
of small geographical area there's
only if you had to guess how many
late model stock operating late
model stock cars even at the
regular shows there's probably two
hundred two hundred fifty in that in
that realm right they get eighty cars
for the big race at martinsville that
used to get a hundred eighty hundred
sixty hundred twenty you know how
do we get there how do we get there
how do we when you put that you know
when you when you instead of paying
fourteen hundred for last you have a
race where you pay twenty five hundred
for last where the ten fifteen twenty
cars is supposed to show up how do
we get there I like say I think
that it's going to be come through
there a being able to get more
sponsors yeah I just think that you
know there's so many of the companies
that are looking at this deal here
now I mean we talk to people all the
time you know about it and then there's
this there's going to be interest
shown this going to present be presented
people with money that's going to
help them get to the racetrack
whether they can afford to or not
on their own yeah I just think that
because like I say I told you before
you know the interest in cars tour is
right now is probably ten times what it
was five years ago I mean like I say
everybody do you think we need to do a
you think it would be in our best
interest to do a better service to our
teams in terms of showcasing their
partners like you're tell what I'm
hearing from you and then I mean this
is common sense but what I'm hearing
from you I'm thinking more about the
purse how can I what did my dude what
what strings am I not pulling with the
purse to draw everybody there it ain't
the purse they need the support on the
front end from ex-partner or local
business or whatever and so should I
therefore maybe put more of a spotlight
on all of these individual partners on
these race cars right that are coming
they're coming our racetrack to make
sure that those people are walking out
of there feeling like the you know
they're getting a showcase I think
this the sponsor deals I mean it helps
whenever you showcase them on you know
on there when you're doing the racetrack
in your own flow you know like here's
you know if you're to say Lowe's car
or whatever you know and then because
whenever I was I drove modified cars
Lowe's actually sponsored me before they
sponsored Jimmy Johnson yeah and we
took in we won a race at North
Wilkesboro in a modified car with Lowe's
sponsor on it and they we had a
meeting up there and they told me
that the amount of air time that they
got was equivalent to like $300,000 in
money spent on a commercial right and
it was free yeah and that's kind of I
think a lot of these companies will see
that you know because you know I don't
know the exact fan base that Lowe has
for a car to race but I know like
Wilkesboro stuff is like good yeah
really good yeah I mean yeah Wilkesboro
is a great race for us yeah and I
think that it's not gonna be what y'all
are done purse wise I think that the
thing that y'all are doing is help
we're going to help get people's money
just through other companies right coming
in wanting to their name on the race
car all right well we can certainly do
a better job there I'm glad to walk
out of here with some some insight and
some advice Jay it's been a lot of
fun talking to you man I'm glad you
came here today you're one of those
individuals like your names your last
name is recognizable mainly through
your success as a chassis builder
particularly in the local you know
short track scene but I wanted people
to hear your story in full and kind
of know where you came from because
I too I myself wanted to personally
know more about that and I like
seeing it the racetrack I like you
being involved thank you for the
impact that you've had on all these
drivers over the years all the cars
you've built for people all the
supports you've gave people you know
you don't you don't really ever you
don't cross me as one of those guys
that kind of sits back and reflects
on much of that but you've you've
you know you personally influence
tons of careers in all the chassis
and cars you build and all the
racetracks you've been to and
people you supported I mean you
know there's in the short track
world if you got a guy building
motors you know and he go the
racetrack he's got five engines
there up and down pit road and he
goes and he tunes on him he makes
sure everybody's happy and I see
you doing the same thing even if
you have a house car there
right you come by you check in on
us you make sure we're doing
alright gunning questions gunnings
challenges and I appreciate that
that support so just looking forward
to seeing the racetrack this year
glad you're gonna be at a lot
of cars for races yeah and yeah
we'll see the racetrack I appreciate
you have me on the show it's been
good and we'll see you around the
racetrack sir alright so that's Jay
Hedgecock and great conversation
learned a ton man what I give
anything to have been a witness
to some of the short track races
that he saw dad run at caraway
and other places you know tangling
with butch lindley across the
finish line barely beating him
wrecking with Sam hard just incredible
I can't imagine what it must have
been like to be there and watch
all that go down but Jay was around
for all of that and didn't know
he built that car that rich petty
flew down the front straightaway
did not know he built cars for
my dad the dad will drive in the
cup series and so yeah I know
he's been building late model
stocks for a long time and his cars
have been around for quite a while
but hadn't hadn't a lot of knowledge
beyond that and so it's great to get
him in here and every now and then
you know we kind of I like to bring
those guys in here because it kind
of I get this store I get this
question all the time there's
some kids standing out here on the
front porch of junior motorsports
right now that are students over
at the technical NASCAR Institute
and they want to know how to
get into this sport and there's
not an answer there's no way
there's no easy answer you know
they just they would prefer that
you would have an opening in this
building and hire them into that
role and off they go but sometimes
you got to be kind of like Jay
Hedgecock and just create it
yourself right just Jay Hedgecock
didn't start building his first
race car thinking man this is
I won't make a living building race
cars he built it because he wanted
to race he wanted to go to the
racetrack he wanted to build a car
and go see it compete you know and
he did that well enough that he
started to accumulate customers
people that wanted him to build
cars for them you know and
that's just a process it's a long
long road but every now and then
I love to get those guys in here
because we get to hear like the
genuine path of one of the routes
now you know to get into this industry
certainly was a different route than
I took I was kind of born into it
and not everybody's that fortunate
so awesome to learn from Jay awesome
to get some insight from Jay on the
current state of short track racing
and some of the things that you
know he likes about the tour and
what torque knew better and
yeah I think he enjoyed being here
so we got a lot of things to
talk about before we close out
the show just want to make y'all
know that we will have a live show
down in Daytona Thursday this the
12th at the fan zone inside the
racetrack dirty mode media will be
live on serious XM we've done this
last year I'll be on from 3 to 4
p.m. with Jeff Gluck freddy craft
we're gonna have some others come
on as well Jeff Gordon Ryan
Blaney from 4 to 4 30 they'll be
like a crossover show with 30
more media and serious XM and
then from 4 30 to 6 serious XM
Speedway with Dave Moody our show
will drop on the podcast and
YouTube later that night also
we've got new merch out dirty
mode media merch for 2026 it's
pretty awesome the green flag
collection has dropped also we
got a Valentine's Day line that's
perfect if you're buying for
someone on Valentine's Day hoodies
tease flags the whole deal go
to to shop dirty mode media dot
com all right so I've enjoyed it
this week in the Arby's studio
thank you to Arby's new partner
part of our programming here at
dirty mode media don't forget
about Arby's new meat and 3 box
get more meal for your money
at Arby's we have the meats
we're off to Daytona we're in
Daytona where we're live show
in Daytona we're gonna a lot of
fun this week we're gonna try
to win us an infinity race try
to get into the Daytona 500 and
we're gonna come back next
week and tell you all about it
we'll see you check out dirty
mode media on Instagram Facebook
X and TikTok not to brag or
anything but Arby's new 799
meat and 3 box is kind of a big
deal the other guys give you
just one side we give you three
sides not to brag you get a
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Mott sticks a sweet treat and
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it's more meal for your money
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where'd that come from
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